Latest / Frontiers of Psychotherapist Development Podcast by Daryl Chow, Ph.D. / Thinking in Thirds. Developing Structure (Frontiers Friday #233) ⭕️

Transcript

Thinking in Thirds. Developing Structure (Frontiers Friday #233) ⭕️ · Frontiers of Psychotherapist Development Podcast by Daryl Chow, Ph.D.

0:00
Structure helps create impact but how do we organize ourselves
0:06
within the therapy
0:07
SPEAKER_00: hour to create an impactful session for our clients?
0:12
SPEAKER_00: This is where thinking in thirds is going to help you.
0:19
This particular podcast episode is taken from the course
0:22
Structure and Impact.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: The next cohort is starting on the 27th of April.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: Registration will close on the 24th of the same month in 2026.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: If you are interested, I would love for you to join us.
0:38
There's so much to learn about how we can scaffold our sessions
0:43
as well as how we
0:44
SPEAKER_00: can string various sessions together to make it
0:49
and experiential and impactful sessions for clients so that
0:52
they benefit from
0:54
SPEAKER_00: coming into counseling or psychotherapy sessions.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: So today we will be focusing within each session,
1:03
SPEAKER_00: how we can think in thirds,
1:05
SPEAKER_00: how we can structure,
1:07
SPEAKER_00: how we can use that as a guide.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: We're not going to glorify structure.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: In fact,
1:13
structures are a scaffold we are meant to take down the
1:18
scaffolds but once you have
1:20
this to guide the way you formulate your thinking and how you
1:24
facilitate the
1:25
SPEAKER_00: process with your clients it's gonna be a big payoff for your work so
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Today, we will be looking at thinking in thirds.
1:36
And just as an aside,
1:37
you might hear me refer to this video or that video.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: Of course,
1:41
SPEAKER_00: if you're hearing this on a podcast,
1:43
it's an audio-only version as the videos are taken from the
1:49
course itself.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: Once again, if you're interested, join us in Structure and Impact.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: The links are provided in the description below.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: Now that we've talked about managing the clock,
2:10
SPEAKER_00: let's go a little bit further,
2:12
because one of the key ways of how we can structure our
2:15
sessions is to think in
2:18
SPEAKER_00: terms of thirds,
2:20
SPEAKER_00: the rule of threes,
2:21
SPEAKER_00: and in the performing arts.
2:23
We would call this the three acts,
2:25
the beginning,
2:25
the middle and the end.
2:27
You see this play out in storytelling and well-crafted
2:31
narratives and movies and all that.
2:33
And I was particularly inspired by an editor by the name of
2:37
Sean Cornwell.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: When he wrote this book called The Story Grid,
2:42
it's basically taking you behind the scenes of how he as an
2:46
editor would look at
2:48
SPEAKER_00: the arc of a story of somebody's manuscript and he would deconstruct it.
2:53
going through this little story grid that he would do and look
2:57
for the way the things unfold.
3:00
And this is such a useful idea for us to think about because
3:04
this applies in the
3:06
SPEAKER_00: field of psychotherapy,
3:07
SPEAKER_00: in the therapy hour.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: The way I describe this three acts,
3:13
SPEAKER_00: you call that,
3:15
SPEAKER_00: would be in therapy,
3:16
SPEAKER_00: I would describe that as...
3:19
SPEAKER_00: An invitational beginning as the first act.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: The second act is a deepening of the process, which is the second.
3:28
And then the third is a kind of resolution where things start
3:34
to close in a nice fashion.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: Now, we're going to tease this apart a little bit.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: And for this particular video,
3:42
SPEAKER_00: we are going to go into the first one,
3:45
SPEAKER_00: which is the invitational beginning.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: So in some specific terms,
3:51
this is useful for a therapeutic encounter when it's not just
3:55
somebody coming in
3:56
SPEAKER_00: for a chit chat.
3:57
It's somebody coming in for a purpose,
4:01
often for a therapeutic reason like
4:04
SPEAKER_00: Looking for change,
4:05
SPEAKER_00: looking for development,
4:06
SPEAKER_00: looking to solve some sort of crisis point in a person's life.
4:12
And as we talk about this,
4:13
we're going to talk about three different hats in each of
4:18
these.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: three phases.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: And we're going to talk as we talk about them.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: I want you to think about your blueprint that you've done from part one.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: Make sure you have that visible with you.
4:31
SPEAKER_00: But also I'm going to refer to three hats in each of these phases.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: that you might end up finding yourself wearing them from time to time.
4:41
Maybe not all the time,
4:42
but you would see some that's a bit more predominant.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: So let's go with the act one, which is about an invitational beginning.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: So the first hat that we're going to talk about is the meanderer.
4:55
The meanderer is someone who lets the client go on to tell the
4:58
story because people
4:59
SPEAKER_00: have,
5:00
SPEAKER_00: they want to share with you what's been happening in their life.
5:02
And that's not a bad thing,
5:04
but the meanderer allows them to keep going and keep going.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: You know, we may start with some small talk, especially...
5:10
SPEAKER_00: initial sessions.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: But then as things unfold,
5:13
SPEAKER_00: you know,
5:14
we let them carry on and explore and expound and expand the
5:18
story as they share
5:19
SPEAKER_00: them with us.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: But then as it goes and it goes, it feels like things just go and go and
5:25
goal and there was nothing to hook,
5:27
nothing to anchor where the conversation is going.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: And then we are swept by wherever the wind blows.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: I recall a particular client where when we ended up talking, she shared
5:40
SPEAKER_00: a lot about her relationship background,
5:42
SPEAKER_00: the various breakups she has had,
5:45
some traumas that she's experienced within her family life and
5:49
so on and her
5:50
SPEAKER_00: difficulties.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: And she had so much to tell.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: And I listened as attentively as I
5:55
SPEAKER_00: could.
5:56
I pictured Kyle Rogers to make sure that I carried that same
6:00
spirit of pacing
6:02
SPEAKER_00: myself to listen very carefully to where she was going.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: But as things went on and on, I knew that time was
6:10
SPEAKER_00: coming up already in the first session.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: And then at the end,
6:12
SPEAKER_00: you know,
6:13
I usually end with a session rating scale or a rating about
6:16
engagement so that I
6:17
SPEAKER_00: get a sense of where they're at.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: And there were four sections in the session rating scale.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: One was about the relationship.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: Second was about the goals.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: Third was about the
6:25
SPEAKER_00: approach and method and fourth, their overall fit.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: And,
6:27
SPEAKER_00: you know,
6:28
she rated pretty high on all of them out of 10 and she rated
6:31
like nine or 9.5,
6:32
SPEAKER_00: but the goals,
6:34
SPEAKER_00: she rated that like a six.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: And honestly, I was a little bit surprised.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: I thought we talked about the pain points.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: I thought we talked about stuff that were important to her and all that.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: And I asked her about this and she said,
6:48
SPEAKER_00: yeah, you know, we haven't got to talk about an important thing.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: And I asked her what that was.
6:54
And she described that one of the things that was very
6:57
difficult for her was her abortion.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: So that was a real lesson learned that
7:05
SPEAKER_00: It's easy to be swept if I let things meander.
7:09
And neither do I want to be too clinical and just stop any kind
7:15
of conversation
7:16
SPEAKER_00: that's not relevant,
7:18
SPEAKER_00: at least in my mind.
7:20
of relates with this second point or the second hat that we
7:25
might likely wear.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: I call this the rigid behaviorist.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: So,
7:30
SPEAKER_00: you know,
7:30
SPEAKER_00: if you think about this,
7:32
SPEAKER_00: I don't know about you,
7:33
sometimes the word goals can trigger all kinds of association
7:38
of organizational
7:39
SPEAKER_00: speak and sports metaphor and so on.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: That's very behavioralistic.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: Now,
7:45
Not everything can be reduced to a SMART goal that is something
7:49
that's specific,
7:50
SPEAKER_00: measurable,
7:51
SPEAKER_00: actionable,
7:53
SPEAKER_00: relevant,
7:53
SPEAKER_00: and time-bound,
7:54
SPEAKER_00: right?
7:55
But if we take this kind of rigid,
7:58
behavioralistic approach,
8:00
we can become...
8:01
reductionistic we can even become invalidating to the human
8:07
experience a therapist
8:09
i was working with once told me she said that she noticed when
8:12
she was overworked
8:14
exhausted and busy and time pressured she started to become
8:18
very much wearing the
8:20
SPEAKER_00: rigid behavioralistic
8:23
SPEAKER_00: simply because you feel like you've got to narrow down.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: You feel like you've got to pursue that.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: And by doing that,
8:28
SPEAKER_00: not only our sense of focus starts to narrow down,
8:31
SPEAKER_00: which is not a bad thing,
8:32
SPEAKER_00: but we start to become clinical.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: We start to have no room for flexibility.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: we start to get even the humanizing of the experience for the person.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: So think about moments when you become a rigid behavioralist,
8:48
SPEAKER_00: like this person I mentioned,
8:50
SPEAKER_00: and I remember two similar
8:52
SPEAKER_00: times when I become too rigid,
8:54
when I feel like I am trying to grasp for something and I want
8:58
to boil it down to
8:59
SPEAKER_00: some specific things and not stay too abstract.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: There is a danger of becoming too rigid in that way.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: And then the final hat is the hat of someone who has an effective focus.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: The focus therapist is one who's thinking in terms of therapeutic aims,
9:19
SPEAKER_00: directionality,
9:21
SPEAKER_00: and a sense of flexibility that goals can evolve,
9:25
SPEAKER_00: directions can change,
9:27
SPEAKER_00: and things can start.
9:29
to go in a different angle when things start to move in the
9:34
therapy and in the person's life.
9:37
So that is why when we develop the taxonomy of deliberate
9:41
practice activities worksheets for
9:44
SPEAKER_00: clinicians and for supervisors,
9:47
many of the key elements actually touch on this topic about
9:51
developing focus.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: So some of them from the TDPA are like, how do you first, how do you
9:58
SPEAKER_00: start a first session?
10:00
SPEAKER_00: How do you start a subsequent session?
10:03
How do you establish goal consensus or directionality in the
10:06
first and subsequent sessions?
10:08
SPEAKER_00: How do you help a client who comes with no goal in therapy?
10:13
SPEAKER_00: These
10:13
These are critical questions for you and I to think about and
10:17
to develop clear
10:19
mental models of how we can make therapy come alive when we are
10:24
beginning the
10:25
SPEAKER_00: process of the work because developing an effective focus
10:29
SPEAKER_00: is not just for the initial sessions.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: It's also for subsequent sessions.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: That's really critical because things can change, right?
10:37
SPEAKER_00: The person may come for presentation of concerns,
10:40
SPEAKER_00: of anxiety initially,
10:42
SPEAKER_00: but later as things evolve,
10:43
SPEAKER_00: it may be about something,
10:45
SPEAKER_00: say,
10:45
SPEAKER_00: about relationships and so on.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: So remember, the focus therapist needs to help to steer the sailboat.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: We cannot control the wind,
10:55
SPEAKER_00: but we can consistently check on the structure that we talked about,
11:00
SPEAKER_00: which is where are we and where are we going?
11:05
SPEAKER_00: And always remembering the why of what we are doing.
11:09
That's the structure that we need to make sure that it's clear
11:12
in our minds and
11:14
SPEAKER_00: also able to be described to our clients.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: Now that we've talked a bit about the beginning phase,
11:24
SPEAKER_00: which is an invitational beginning,
11:26
SPEAKER_00: this usually happens around the 15,
11:29
SPEAKER_00: 20 minutes mark or so.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: Roughly speaking, it's just a guide.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: We go into step two, which is the mid
11:35
point of therapy what we call deepening the process this is
11:41
important phase because
11:42
this is the time where we after we develop a sense of focus we
11:46
want to be able to
11:48
SPEAKER_00: go a step deeper a step further
11:50
that normally conversations that we have outside of therapy
11:55
don't go because this
11:57
SPEAKER_00: is where the conversation is unique.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: We're trying to bring to speech,
12:02
SPEAKER_00: to speak the unspokens,
12:04
SPEAKER_00: to talk about stuff that's difficult to talk about.
12:07
And we're going to go a little bit more into the nuance of a
12:11
person's life.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: However,
12:13
SPEAKER_00: bear in mind that while we're doing this to go deeper in the process,
12:18
SPEAKER_00: number one,
12:19
it's kind of critical that we're making sure that this has got
12:23
connective tissue to
12:25
SPEAKER_00: a person's aim,
12:27
SPEAKER_00: right?
12:27
SPEAKER_00: So that's why the first phase is critical to develop a sense of focus.
12:31
SPEAKER_00: Even if we have to meander a little bit,
12:33
we do want to make sure that we develop a focus before we
12:36
pursue further success.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: And then secondly,
12:38
SPEAKER_00: when we go into deepening the process,
12:41
there is a kind of trade-off because when we start talking
12:44
about a particular
12:46
SPEAKER_00: thing,
12:46
SPEAKER_00: it means that we let go talking about other stuff.
12:50
I mean,
12:50
the aim is not really to cover all kinds of content of a
12:53
person's life.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: but rather to go specific to the things that need our attention.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: And of course,
13:00
things will start to sprout and relate and connect with other
13:03
things in their
13:04
SPEAKER_00: lives.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: In the book that I wrote, The First Kiss, which is about the
13:10
SPEAKER_00: first sessions, not a romance novel.
13:12
We talk about how we need to undo the typical intake model of
13:17
just collecting
13:18
SPEAKER_00: information and taking and taking.
13:20
SPEAKER_00: Instead, we need to focus about what we're giving to people.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: One of the things I caution
13:25
in the process is what I call the tibu or the true but useless
13:31
information because
13:32
we are not Sherlock Holmes when our job is not to put on that
13:37
kind of investigative
13:38
forensic hat because if we do if we keep doing that especially
13:42
in initial sessions
13:44
SPEAKER_00: we run the risk of three things happening one re-traumatizing our clients
13:50
SPEAKER_00: unnecessarily
13:52
SPEAKER_00: I remember quite clearly one time I heard this client,
13:56
SPEAKER_00: an adolescent,
13:57
SPEAKER_00: she ran out and she was crying and she said to her mom,
14:01
SPEAKER_00: I don't understand.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: What's all this?
14:03
SPEAKER_00: Why ask me all this information for?
14:06
SPEAKER_00: And she was just clearly flooded.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: and overwhelmed by the things that were asked of her.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure the therapist meant no harm, but we have to be very careful.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: We do need to approach the things that are painful for a person.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: However,
14:21
SPEAKER_00: we also need to make sure not only that we are pacing ourselves,
14:26
SPEAKER_00: but that they can also see the reasons of us going there.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: Remember, the structure of therapy is about
14:34
SPEAKER_00: Where we are, where we're going and why we're doing that.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: So these things have to fit into the client's rational.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: Second,
14:43
SPEAKER_00: we also need to make sure that we have mobilized the client's will,
14:47
SPEAKER_00: because if then will is not on board.
14:49
SPEAKER_00: and we just keep going and going and trying to deepen the process,
14:53
SPEAKER_00: we end up becoming like a cheerleader,
14:56
SPEAKER_00: rah-rah-ing them all the way.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: And then inevitably,
14:59
we end up feeling like as if we are working harder than our
15:04
clients and we feel
15:06
SPEAKER_00: disjointed from the process,
15:07
SPEAKER_00: but we also feel exhausted by the fact that we're trying so hard,
15:12
SPEAKER_00: but then yet they're not actually fully on board.
15:17
And of course,
15:17
the risk of going into true but useless information is that
15:22
there is really...
15:23
SPEAKER_00: not an effective focus.
15:25
That's why phase one is really critical to make sure that we
15:29
are clear from the
15:31
SPEAKER_00: beginning sessions,
15:32
SPEAKER_00: but also for subsequent sessions.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: So let's explore for act two,
15:38
SPEAKER_00: deepening the process,
15:39
SPEAKER_00: the kinds of three hats that you and I might end up wearing.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: The first is that of the wanderer.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: The wanderer is someone who is aimless.
15:51
someone who doesn't know where things are going and you know
15:56
you could tell this
15:58
from therapists when they have no clue where things are going
16:01
they're nodding
16:02
really hard they're agreeing really much more and they are
16:06
seemingly showing body
16:07
SPEAKER_00: language that they're there but they have no idea where this is
16:11
SPEAKER_00: going.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: Admittedly, this can happen to all of us in a therapy.
16:15
I can think of countless memories of this in my work as a
16:19
therapist as well.
16:20
The result of someone who is over wondering is what
16:24
psychoanalysts and writer
16:26
Daniel Stern calls forms of lifelessness where the therapeutic
16:31
process is really
16:32
SPEAKER_00: not going anywhere and things begin to flatline.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: Things were static.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: There's no clear direction.
16:40
And there's a sense of kind of boredom experience in the
16:44
temperature of the room there.
16:47
The second hat that we might end up wearing is that of someone
16:50
who is overwhelmed.
16:53
The person who is overwhelmed often is due to when the stories
16:58
that we hear are so
17:00
multilayered or sometimes what we call complex traumas that's
17:04
involved in a
17:04
SPEAKER_00: person's life.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: And then we are
17:09
SPEAKER_00: keen to let our eager clients tell the story and
17:14
SPEAKER_00: Individually,
17:14
SPEAKER_00: as the floodgate starts to open,
17:17
this outpouring starts to swamp us when we have no idea where
17:22
this is going or how
17:23
SPEAKER_00: to even contain this.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: This can happen at any point in time in therapy.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of hard to figure out the true north from here.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: Finally, the third hat that we may wear is that of the deep sea diver.
17:42
Deep Sea Diver is somebody who's able and has the ability to
17:47
take you beyond.
17:50
takes you one step further into the normal conversations that
17:53
we have beyond the
17:54
conversations you might have with the hairstylist or the
17:57
persons at the pub.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: This is where we can go and speak about the unspoken,
18:02
SPEAKER_00: talk about stuff that's hard to talk about.
18:05
We become a kind of emotional tour guide in that process to
18:10
help facilitate them to
18:12
SPEAKER_00: bring this into speech.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: However,
18:15
SPEAKER_00: However,
18:16
SPEAKER_00: without clear directionality established in the first sense,
18:21
SPEAKER_00: we may actually be barking up the wrong tree.
18:25
We may actually be pursuing something that is not relevant for
18:29
the particular
18:30
SPEAKER_00: person at that particular time.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: So that's why that
18:34
SPEAKER_00: The joining,
18:35
SPEAKER_00: the marriage between step one,
18:37
the invitation of beginning where we develop a focus and then
18:41
developing a kind of
18:42
SPEAKER_00: deepening of the process is so critical.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: So this deep sea exploration,
18:48
SPEAKER_00: again,
18:48
as Daniel Stern would call this as a form of vitality that we
18:54
hope as a consequence
18:55
SPEAKER_00: of being able to go there,
18:57
SPEAKER_00: that something comes alive within the conversation.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: And where there is a sense of directionality,
19:03
SPEAKER_00: there's a sense of movement,
19:04
SPEAKER_00: there's emotional dynamics,
19:07
there's a kind of dramatic animation that's happening in the
19:11
therapy room.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: So far, we've covered the first two acts of the therapy session.
19:21
The first was about an invitational beginning on how we can
19:26
start to develop a kind
19:27
SPEAKER_00: of directionality and focus in terms of where we're going in the session.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: And then act two was about deepening the process,
19:35
taking them from where they are into where they can go and to
19:41
go processing stuff
19:43
SPEAKER_00: that may be challenging.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: difficult for them.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: And then here we are now at the closing phase.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: This is what we call the resolution phase.
19:53
In this closing bit,
19:55
there are three possible different hats that we might end up
19:59
wearing.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: The first is someone who is abrupt.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: Now,
20:04
SPEAKER_00: I know this might sound absurd to say that we can end therapy abruptly,
20:10
SPEAKER_00: but think about this.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: Has this happened before?
20:13
SPEAKER_00: There are times where we feel like if things are getting long,
20:16
SPEAKER_00: drawn out,
20:17
SPEAKER_00: we may have to interject or we may not be able to end on a proper note.
20:21
SPEAKER_00: This can happen from time to time.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: More to the point that abruptness can happen, especially when
20:28
SPEAKER_00: When the first two acts are not formed properly,
20:32
SPEAKER_00: when there is no sense of directionality of where we're going,
20:35
SPEAKER_00: there is no specific targets from where we could deepen the process,
20:40
SPEAKER_00: all these may lead us to end therapy sessions abruptly.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: The second hat that we might end up wearing is that of the teacher.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: Now,
20:51
SPEAKER_00: the teacher,
20:52
SPEAKER_00: from a pedagogical standpoint,
20:54
is recommended to end a lesson on a summarized note to pull
20:59
together all that was
21:00
SPEAKER_00: discussed.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: In extreme sense,
21:03
SPEAKER_00: when we become too teacherly,
21:05
SPEAKER_00: we may feel like we're conducting a lesson or sometimes what we call
21:10
SPEAKER_00: psychoeducation.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: Now, this is not necessarily a bad thing, but you don't want to be hired.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: You don't want to be like insisting like,
21:20
SPEAKER_00: oh,
21:20
you better make sure that you do your homework or chastising
21:23
the client to do the
21:24
SPEAKER_00: work outside of therapy with fill in the blank,
21:27
SPEAKER_00: whatever model of approach that you're using.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: This runs the risk of.
21:31
making our clients feel small and even condescending,
21:36
even though this may not be our intent.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: Our role in therapy requires us to teach at times,
21:42
SPEAKER_00: to inform at times,
21:43
SPEAKER_00: but don't become a lousy teacher.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, after all, information is not transformation.
21:51
And then the final hat that we might end up wearing is that of
21:57
the resonator.
21:58
I'm not referring to the muffling part of the engine called the
22:03
resonator,
22:04
SPEAKER_00: or neither I'm referring to the type of guitar that you might use.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm speaking about how we can create a kind of resonant experience,
22:14
SPEAKER_00: something that resonates for them
22:16
SPEAKER_00: in the therapeutic conversation.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: Especially near the end of a session,
22:22
SPEAKER_00: I often find myself in a variety of ways asking a client,
22:26
SPEAKER_00: based on our conversation today,
22:29
SPEAKER_00: what strikes you?
22:30
SPEAKER_00: What resonates with you?
22:32
SPEAKER_00: So at this stage of the closing of therapy,
22:35
SPEAKER_00: I often pair this up with the session rating scale as well,
22:38
where I'm asking them to fill up an ultra brief alliance
22:42
measure that's asking them
22:44
SPEAKER_00: about the relationship,
22:46
SPEAKER_00: how much of you understood.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: the goals and topics that we talk about,
22:49
SPEAKER_00: what they want to talk about that's vital to them,
22:52
SPEAKER_00: and my approach and overall how this fit them.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: And in this particular SRS form as well,
22:57
SPEAKER_00: I often weave this with asking them about what resonates for them in the
23:02
SPEAKER_00: conversation today,
23:03
SPEAKER_00: what strikes them today.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: This is useful information for a couple of reasons.
23:08
One,
23:08
we often think what is important for them may not be the thing
23:12
that resonates for them.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: Second,
23:15
SPEAKER_00: when you can figure out what resonates for the person,
23:18
you can take that feedback and feed it forward into the process
23:22
of the future
23:23
SPEAKER_00: subsequent sessions.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: This becomes part of what I would call proper communication.
23:28
personalized treatment plan where you are paying very careful
23:33
attention to what's
23:34
unfolding for the person and how this may connect with future
23:39
conversations and
23:40
SPEAKER_00: therapy.
23:42
Once I was conducting a couples session and near the end,
23:48
we did just that.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: We completed the SRS forms for both of them.
23:52
And then I asked each of them what strikes them,
23:55
what resonates for each of them.
23:57
And when the girl,
23:59
she ended up saying that her feedback was,
24:03
it feels good.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: And she
24:05
SPEAKER_00: I gotta tell you,
24:07
SPEAKER_00: it was kind of surprising for me,
24:09
mainly because it was a really difficult conversation that we
24:13
had in the therapy.
24:15
And there was a lot of question of whether how the relationship
24:17
will go on.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: And I wasn't expecting her to say that, that it felt good.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: So I looked at the partner and then the partner jumped in as well.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: I said, actually, I was thinking just the same.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: So I said that I was surprised for her that she said that.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: And she went on to explain to us,
24:36
SPEAKER_00: That,
24:37
SPEAKER_00: unbeknownst to both of us,
24:39
SPEAKER_00: the therapist and her partner,
24:42
that she was so appreciative and she didn't know that her
24:46
partner had been trying
24:47
SPEAKER_00: so hard to improve the relationship,
24:50
SPEAKER_00: making certain actions,
24:51
SPEAKER_00: changing certain behaviors.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: behaviors for the sake of the relationship.
24:56
And that is to me a very useful information because it
25:00
counteracts my intuition.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: It's not what I thought.
25:04
And I'm then alerted to the fact that there was stuff that were
25:08
unspoken and the
25:10
fact that they were able to bring voice into the conversation
25:13
with the three of us.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: That's so important.
25:16
And that's something I hope for them to also do a little bit
25:19
more outside of therapy.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: So there you have it about the final section,
25:26
SPEAKER_00: the act three of closing therapy and what we call the resolution.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: Now, of course, not everything gets resolved and sometimes
25:36
Some things are a little bit messier than it is because
25:39
progress is not a straight line.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: Progress goals in circles.
25:43
But take note of these three potential hats because this is
25:48
ultimately a guide.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: This is not a formula.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: It's a form, as we've mentioned before.
25:53
SPEAKER_00: And my hopes is that when you have these structures,
25:58
you're able to create an impact and then the impact will create
26:02
better engagement
26:03
SPEAKER_00: and better engagement
26:04
SPEAKER_00: leads to better outcomes for our clients.
26:19
It would be my neglect if I did not mention the shadow sides of
26:25
thinking about
26:26
SPEAKER_00: these three acts,
26:27
SPEAKER_00: the
26:29
SPEAKER_00: Invitational beginnings,
26:30
SPEAKER_00: the deepening of the process,
26:31
SPEAKER_00: as well as the endings in the resolution phase.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: And I know that we talked about three hats each in the previous video,
26:38
SPEAKER_00: and it might sound like the aim is to,
26:42
SPEAKER_00: like,
26:42
SPEAKER_00: let's say in the act one,
26:44
SPEAKER_00: Instead of being in the meanderer and the rigid behaviorist,
26:46
SPEAKER_00: you should be the focused therapist.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: And then in the deepening phase,
26:51
SPEAKER_00: we talked about the wanderer,
26:53
SPEAKER_00: the overwhelmed and the deep sea diver.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: And the ideal sounds like you should be a deep sea diver.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: And the third one,
27:01
SPEAKER_00: the endings,
27:01
SPEAKER_00: the abrupt,
27:02
SPEAKER_00: the teacher and the resonator,
27:04
SPEAKER_00: that it sounds like we should be the resonator.
27:06
I want to talk about the shadow sides of the focused,
27:10
the deep sea diver and the resonator.
27:13
SPEAKER_00: Let's begin with the focus.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we might need to spend some time to develop a focus.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: And focus can change.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: Things can present itself a certain way and evolve to be another way.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: We don't want to end up becoming too tunneled,
27:33
SPEAKER_00: too tight,
27:34
SPEAKER_00: because we need to stay nimble and flexible,
27:37
SPEAKER_00: right?
27:38
And we want to be able to adapt to the changing circumstances
27:43
and evolving needs.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: Often we may need to recalibrate and adjust and refocus a little bit.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: And we may be out of focus in some sense, but that's okay.
27:56
That's part of the process because sometimes for our clients,
28:00
this is also challenging.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: This may be the first time they're talking about things in this way.
28:06
then for the deep sea diver this one i have a particular
28:10
example that calls to mind
28:13
i remember once i was working with this woman and she was
28:17
talking about her
28:19
SPEAKER_00: difficulties in her
28:21
relationship and she was really struggling with the challenges
28:26
that presented about
28:28
SPEAKER_00: sexuality,
28:29
SPEAKER_00: about her partner watching porn and so on.
28:32
And she really wanted to discuss openly about this because she
28:36
was very conflicted
28:37
SPEAKER_00: and really torn about this.
28:39
And we kind of developed a consensual focus that this is what
28:42
she wanted to spend
28:43
SPEAKER_00: the time talking about.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: But then as we dived in, I said that
28:48
SPEAKER_00: Can we just talk a bit about your insecurities?
28:52
SPEAKER_00: And then she said this to me.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: I never said I'm insecure.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: And...
28:58
SPEAKER_00: She asked me, what made you say I'm insecure?
29:03
SPEAKER_00: And this was a real vital flaw of mine.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: I was diving in too much quickly,
29:10
SPEAKER_00: making assumptions and putting linguistics,
29:14
SPEAKER_00: semantics into her mouth where she may not have articulated that yet.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: And she could feel, she might even be feeling insecure.
29:24
SPEAKER_00: But I went crazy.
29:25
i dived in too fast too quickly and caused a kind of assumption
29:31
and i have to also
29:32
understand the dynamics of me being male and she talking about
29:37
her boyfriend and
29:38
SPEAKER_00: talking about pornography and all that
29:41
It was really my blunder that I wanted to go and become a deep
29:46
sea diver.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: And without pacing, without going in gradations, I went too quickly.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: So that's one shadow side about the deep sea.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: Then finally about the endings,
30:00
SPEAKER_00: that the hope is to be a resonator,
30:02
SPEAKER_00: to seek out things that ring for our clients.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: The truth is, sometimes that doesn't happen.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: Because of a particular topic,
30:13
SPEAKER_00: maybe it's,
30:14
SPEAKER_00: for example,
30:15
SPEAKER_00: working with a recent loss of somebody close in our client's life,
30:21
SPEAKER_00: there may not be a nice wrap-up note in the conversation.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: And that's okay.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: That's something that we have to learn to tolerate as well.
30:32
But just remember that if we force into needing to wrap up
30:37
nicely and to make sure
30:39
SPEAKER_00: that somebody has something,
30:41
that is probably more of our agenda being enforced onto another
30:48
person as opposed
30:50
SPEAKER_00: to the other person's needs.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes all they need is another present human to help them
30:58
SPEAKER_00: Be with them through this difficulty to be able to become a witness,
31:04
SPEAKER_00: somebody to be with them through this process that they are not alone.
31:09
So that's the shadow sides that we have to make sure that we're
31:14
paying attention to.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: This is not that there's a right or wrong way of doing things.
31:18
There are multiplicities of different ways that we can navigate
31:22
the beginning,
31:22
SPEAKER_00: the middle and end of therapy session.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: So your turn.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: In this particular three acts and each of its three different hats,
31:33
SPEAKER_00: which one do you feel like you fit in more to?
31:36
SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like for the beginning phase,
31:38
SPEAKER_00: the invitation of beginnings that you feel like you,
31:40
SPEAKER_00: um,
31:40
SPEAKER_00: um,
31:41
SPEAKER_00: majority time feel like you're meandering and why,
31:45
SPEAKER_00: or you feel like you,
31:46
SPEAKER_00: you are quite,
31:47
SPEAKER_00: you want to get down to the concrete,
31:49
go from the abstract to the concrete very quickly to be like a
31:52
behavior list,
31:53
SPEAKER_00: or you feel like you are quite a focused therapist.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: And then for the middle phase, we were deepening the process.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like you are a wanderer that you allow things to,
32:03
SPEAKER_00: to just go,
32:04
SPEAKER_00: or you feel like you're easily overwhelmed,
32:06
SPEAKER_00: especially when you're working with complex presentations?
32:12
SPEAKER_00: And then three, do you feel like you are naturally a deep sea diver?
32:16
SPEAKER_00: You're able to go deep into the process.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: And then in a final resolution phase,
32:21
do you feel like you are somebody who is by inclination abrupt
32:26
because suddenly
32:27
realizing the time and then needing to keep pacing because
32:31
there are other people
32:31
SPEAKER_00: waiting?
32:32
SPEAKER_00: Or number two,
32:33
do you feel like you are quite like a teacher when you're able
32:36
to sum it up,
32:37
SPEAKER_00: pull it together?
32:39
And then finally,
32:40
do you feel like you are able to end on a resonant note?
32:44
SPEAKER_00: Tell us what you think.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: Share in the comments below.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: We love to hear and have a discussion around this.
32:49
There's no right or wrong hat to wear,
32:52
but we end up sometimes being pulled into different hats.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: The key then is really to figure out a way to manage this,
33:00
SPEAKER_00: to figure out a way to guide the process.