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How She Fell Into Lesbian Lifestyle with Naomi Van Wyk · The Becket Cook Show

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Life Audio.
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  Speaker 2: You are listening to The Becket Cook Show with your
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  Speaker 2: host Beckett Cook. For more information about Beckett and his ministry,
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  Speaker 2: visit his website at Beckettcook dot com. To help support
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  Speaker 2: the podcast, visit Patreon dot com slash the Becket Cook Show.
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  Speaker 2: Please consider subscribing to the podcast and leaving a five
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  Speaker 2: star rating.
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  Speaker 3: Hey, guys, welcome to the show today. I have a
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  Speaker 3: special guest, Naomi van Wick. We actually met at the
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  Speaker 3: live action conference I spoke at like a month ago
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  Speaker 3: called the Young Leader Summit, and she and I were
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  Speaker 3: chatting in the green room and she mentioned that she
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  Speaker 3: was an ex lesbian and that God rescued her out
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  Speaker 3: of that life and and I was like, you got
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  Speaker 3: to come up my show. So she's on today and
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  Speaker 3: I'm excited to hear the details of her story. They're fascinating.
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  Speaker 3: But first award from our sponsor. Please welcome Naomi van Wike.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you, Becket Cook. It's great to be here.
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  Speaker 3: It's good to have you on. As I mentioned in
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  Speaker 3: the intro, like you know, when we met at the
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  Speaker 3: Young Leader's Summit, was that what is about? Yeah, Young
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  Speaker 3: Leader Summit. Delila Rose Uh some live action, live action summit.
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  Speaker 3: You know, we were talking in the green room and
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  Speaker 3: I was like, you mentioned I was so surprised when
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  Speaker 3: you mentioned, oh, yeah, I used to be a lesbian.
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  Speaker 3: I'm like what wait what? And so I was like,
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  Speaker 3: you got to come up my show.
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  Speaker 1: Well I'm here, I don't you know, look like I
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  Speaker 1: used to be a lesbian.
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  Speaker 3: So right, I mean, that's kind of the thing that
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  Speaker 3: kind of threw me a little bit. I got to say, So,
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  Speaker 3: let's get into your story because it's fascinating and God
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  Speaker 3: is amazing praise him.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, but let's.
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  Speaker 3: Start with I didn't know this. You're the oldest of
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  Speaker 3: nine children.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, can you believe it?
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  Speaker 3: You know I'm the youngest of eight.
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  Speaker 1: What, Oh my goodness. So I would have been like,
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  Speaker 1: you know, your big sister.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so we have the same We have the same
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  Speaker 3: PTSD from being from large families, I.
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  Speaker 1: Think, although you're at the opposite end. So it was
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  Speaker 1: quite different for you.
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  Speaker 3: Let me tell you, mom, and where were you raised?
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  Speaker 3: What state?
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  Speaker 1: Well? Ye, I was born in Iowa, but we moved
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  Speaker 1: like every couple of years. My dad started campus ministry churches,
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  Speaker 1: so we would move. We moved all over the country.
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  Speaker 1: I lived in probably twenty some different homes before I
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  Speaker 1: was thirty, I mean or more. So we moved all
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  Speaker 1: over and I was homeschooled, so that made it easy,
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  Speaker 1: I guess, for moving because I wasn't pulled in and
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  Speaker 1: out of schools. And with eight brothers and sisters, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I had plenty of built in playmates.
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  Speaker 3: So how many boys and girls?
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  Speaker 1: Five girls? Four boys? Wow, so the girls won.
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  Speaker 3: The girls one. And your dad you mentioned your dad
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  Speaker 3: he was a pastor, right, He was.
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  Speaker 1: Not, you know, he didn't go to seminary or whatever,
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  Speaker 1: but he actually went to Vietnam, got out of Vietnam
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  Speaker 1: and just had a you know, burning desire to share
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  Speaker 1: the gospel. He was raised in a Christian home and
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  Speaker 1: so he had just put together like a little group.
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  Speaker 1: They called it the Blitz, and they drove around in
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  Speaker 1: a Volkswagen van. This was back, you know Jesus movement,
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  Speaker 1: you know, early seventies, and would just go to a
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  Speaker 1: college campus and somebody played the guitar and they'd pass
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  Speaker 1: out tracks and my dad would preach the gospel. And
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  Speaker 1: my dad's very very persuasive. He's led literally thousands of
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  Speaker 1: people to the Lord all over the country. And then
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  Speaker 1: then in other parts of the world. So that's what
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  Speaker 1: I that's what I grew up in. My parents then
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  Speaker 1: got married and conceived me and I have a twin brother.
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  Speaker 1: So yeah, they conceived us on their honeymoon and kept
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  Speaker 1: having kids and kept traveling.
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  Speaker 3: Wow, did your dad get saved in Vietnam or was
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  Speaker 3: he already a Christian before that?
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  Speaker 1: He was already a Christian. Yepka, his mom became a
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  Speaker 1: Christian right around the time he was born, so he
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  Speaker 1: was he was raised in a Christian home. And yeah,
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  Speaker 1: he's the youngest of three. But I think, yeah, being
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  Speaker 1: in Vietnam he got drafted. It wasn't his desire to go,
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  Speaker 1: but I think, you know, that maybe gave him a
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  Speaker 1: wake up call of like what am I doing with
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  Speaker 1: my life? And so his best friend that he met
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  Speaker 1: in Vietnam was played the guitar. So his name was
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  Speaker 1: Dennis Clark. And so this group of like a dozen
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  Speaker 1: young single guys and girls, they'd eat day old donuts
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  Speaker 1: and you know, travel travel around the country. I mean
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  Speaker 1: they had no money, they had no jobs, you know,
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  Speaker 1: they were just literally going. And so the little church
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  Speaker 1: would form and they would you know, get a church started,
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  Speaker 1: and then they'd go to another college campus and preach
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  Speaker 1: the gospel until you know, there was a little Bible
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  Speaker 1: study community group going, and then they'd go to another campus.
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  Speaker 1: And so I had great roots growing up. I mean
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  Speaker 1: I always.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and did you enjoy did you enjoy your early
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  Speaker 3: childhood with all the you know, all the kids in
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  Speaker 3: the chaos, Like did you enjoy that or was it
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  Speaker 3: in the moving or was it kind of hard on them?
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  Speaker 3: You know?
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  Speaker 1: I mean people always go, what was it like having
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  Speaker 1: a twin or what was it like having you know,
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  Speaker 1: eight siblings, And it's like, you know, I didn't know
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  Speaker 1: any different, right, So I felt like I had a
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  Speaker 1: great childhood. I mean we had a lot of fun.
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  Speaker 1: We were like the Christian von Trapp family. If you
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  Speaker 1: ever saw the Sound of Music.
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  Speaker 3: I've never seen it, of course, yeah you're one.
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  Speaker 1: Of eight you have to have watched it. But I
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  Speaker 1: mean literally, my dad like he rewrote the song some
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  Speaker 1: of the Sound of Music songs and put Christian lyrics
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  Speaker 1: to it, and we'd like we'd stand on the staircase
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  Speaker 1: in our house and we'd have to like sing the
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  Speaker 1: Christian lyrics to Sound of Music and do the hand
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  Speaker 1: motions whenever we had guest over, and so, I mean,
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  Speaker 1: I loved it. My mom was my best friend, she
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  Speaker 1: was my hero. I just always dreamed I wanted to
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  Speaker 1: go up, grow up, be like my mom. I thought,
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  Speaker 1: I just live on a farm and have ten kids
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  Speaker 1: and homeschool and milk the cows and get the chicken
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  Speaker 1: eggs and wow.
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  Speaker 3: So so then how did things go sideways? Because when
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  Speaker 3: we were eleven or twelve things something an event happened
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  Speaker 3: when you were eleven or twelve that kind of shifted
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  Speaker 3: your whole life.
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  Speaker 1: Yep, yep for sure. So as you can gather, I
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  Speaker 1: lived in a very sheltered environment. I had never been
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  Speaker 1: to a church besides my dad's church. I was home
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  Speaker 1: home schooled. My community and circle was just my family
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  Speaker 1: or just people that went to my dad's church. But
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  Speaker 1: a girl came to my dad's church and she and
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  Speaker 1: I became friends. And she was sixteen at the time
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  Speaker 1: when I was twelve, and I just thought we were friends.
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  Speaker 1: But she had been a lesbian, she'd been in the
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  Speaker 1: lifestyle before. Of course I had never heard there was
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  Speaker 1: back then, no LGBTQ, and growing up, you know, in
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  Speaker 1: this sheltered family, I'd never even heard about lesbian or
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  Speaker 1: gay or homosexual. That was a word that I'd never
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  Speaker 1: even heard of. I didn't even really know what it
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  Speaker 1: was about how boys and girls, you know, how babies
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  Speaker 1: were born. Yet I mean, we just you know, this little,
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  Speaker 1: you know, little family. So anyway, this girl at my church,
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  Speaker 1: she had a crush on me. She didn't tell me that.
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  Speaker 1: We just hung out a lot, and she told one
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  Speaker 1: of you know, somebody else in the church who called
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  Speaker 1: my dad and said, this this girl, I'll leave r
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  Speaker 1: un named. You know, she came out of the lifestyle,
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  Speaker 1: and she has a crush on Naomi. So my member,
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  Speaker 1: my dad called me into his room and starts questioning
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  Speaker 1: me and just almost accusations that there was something going
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  Speaker 1: on with me. And this is this girl who was
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  Speaker 1: just my friend, and I was I was very confused
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  Speaker 1: because I didn't even know about relations between same sex
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  Speaker 1: and nothing had ever happened between us except we were friends.
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  Speaker 1: But it was very it was just very awkward, and
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  Speaker 1: you know, he then he asked me if I had
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  Speaker 1: kissed her, and I was like blown away. And then
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  Speaker 1: he said, go read Sodom and Gomorah in Genesis. And
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  Speaker 1: I mean, we had grown up reading the Bible. We
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  Speaker 1: memorized chapters of the Bible together, always saying worship songs.
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  Speaker 1: So I'm sure I'd probably had read it, just because
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  Speaker 1: we read through the Bible in a year every year,
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  Speaker 1: but it didn't mean anything to me. I was too
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  Speaker 1: young to understand it. So he said, go read about
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  Speaker 1: Sodom and Gomora and Genesis and then come back and
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  Speaker 1: talk to me. And I read it. I come back,
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  Speaker 1: I'm like even more confused. And then he said, this
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  Speaker 1: is what the enemy's going to use to try to
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  Speaker 1: destroy your life, and that that stuck with me, and
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  Speaker 1: years later I realized, you know, he was being prophetic,
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  Speaker 1: but he was also speaking a word curse. I believe
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  Speaker 1: over me because backett from then on throughout my crowing hop,
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  Speaker 1: I had girls pursuing me, and it was it was
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  Speaker 1: like some door to the enemy had been opened. And
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  Speaker 1: so I really believed that without him meaning to, I
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  Speaker 1: believe my dad had the best intentions. I think he
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  Speaker 1: freaked out. I think he didn't know what to do.
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  Speaker 1: Here is this, you know, his oldest daughter. He doesn't
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  Speaker 1: want me to fall into this lifestyle, and he had
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  Speaker 1: no history of how to deal with something like this.
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  Speaker 1: So I don't necessarily accuse him or fault him or
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  Speaker 1: blame him. I don't think the way he handled it
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  Speaker 1: was right, but I do believe he actually spoke a
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  Speaker 1: word curse over me because from then on, I had
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  Speaker 1: girls pursuing me as I grew up. And when this
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  Speaker 1: happened with this first girl, when I was just twelve
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  Speaker 1: years old, my dad he kicked her out of the church.
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  Speaker 1: She actually worked for his landscaping company, so he fired
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  Speaker 1: her from her job, and he made me write her
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  Speaker 1: a letter that said I will never see or speak
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  Speaker 1: to you again.
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  Speaker 3: We'll be right back after this shortbreak.
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  Speaker 1: And I still didn't understand really what this sin was.
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  Speaker 1: I just understood that, Okay, this is a terrible sin.
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  Speaker 1: I'm like, whatever this is, like, this girl is very
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  Speaker 1: guilty of something. And I remember saying to my dad
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  Speaker 1: and my parents, like, you know, as Christians, I thought
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  Speaker 1: were supposed to help somebody if they have a problem.
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  Speaker 1: I don't understand why we're excommunicating her if she has
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  Speaker 1: this struggle, Like, shouldn't we be like helping her get
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  Speaker 1: out of whatever this sin is. But this is how
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  Speaker 1: it was handled. Yeah, and so yeah, so as I.
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  Speaker 3: That's kind of how it was handled back in the day,
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  Speaker 3: like it was just like, you know, cut off the
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  Speaker 3: person immediately, and like there's just like no conversation, there's
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  Speaker 3: no coming alongside someone helping them, you know, go through this.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, sadly, that's the way so much of
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  Speaker 1: the church. I don't think all churches are that way
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  Speaker 1: any longer. I think churches are starting to wake up
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  Speaker 1: and you would know better than I would, probably, but
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  Speaker 1: there are some churches that still handle it that way.
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  Speaker 1: But yes, this was back in the wow, mid mid eighties,
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  Speaker 1: early eighties, so churches had no idea what to do,
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  Speaker 1: so they just shut the door on them.
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  Speaker 3: And what was her what was her response when she
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  Speaker 3: received your letter.
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  Speaker 1: I never heard from her again, you know, And I
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  Speaker 1: know she tried. She tried to call our house. And
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  Speaker 1: this of course before cell phones, so we had a landline.
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  Speaker 1: So actually I also had to call her, That's right.
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  Speaker 1: I had to call her and tell her as well
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  Speaker 1: as send her a letter. And I mean, now it
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  Speaker 1: breaks my heart that that's how we treated her. But
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  Speaker 1: but back and I've I honestly have never seen or
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  Speaker 1: heard from her since. I mean, that was that was
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  Speaker 1: the end of it. She was literally off her property
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  Speaker 1: and out of the church, and I never never saw
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  Speaker 1: her from her again.
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  Speaker 3: Wow.
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  Speaker 1: So so yeah, that was that was pretty traumatic for me,
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  Speaker 1: needless to say.
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  Speaker 3: In general, and in general, I mean, did you have
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  Speaker 3: a close, kind of emotionally close relationship with your father
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  Speaker 3: or was it was it a difficult relationship.
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  Speaker 1: That's a very good question. My dad was an authoritarian.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so when you have nine kids, you have to
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  Speaker 3: kind of be.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean any king he came out
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  Speaker 1: of Vietnam, and I mean, yeah, you have to, you know,
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  Speaker 1: keep all those kids in order. So I wouldn't say
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  Speaker 1: I had a strained relationship with them at the time.
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  Speaker 1: In fact, I had started working at my dad's office
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  Speaker 1: when I was twelve. He said, if you can type,
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  Speaker 1: you know, seventy words a minute, can come work for me.
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  Speaker 1: And so I taught myself how to type really fast.
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  Speaker 1: So I would go to work with him every day
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  Speaker 1: and come home. And so I in many ways had
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  Speaker 1: a closer relationship with my dad than most of my siblings.
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  Speaker 1: Because I was the first born. My dad put a
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  Speaker 1: lot of responsibility on me. I mean he would leave
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  Speaker 1: the house and say, hey, if the kids get out
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  Speaker 1: of line, you know, you spank them like I had
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  Speaker 1: full authority over raising my siblings. So as I worked
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  Speaker 1: with him, I mean I was with him more. So
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  Speaker 1: I wouldn't say we had a strained relationship. But I
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  Speaker 1: don't know that my dad really knows how to have
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  Speaker 1: an emotional relationship, an intimate, close emotional relationship with anybody. Honestly,
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  Speaker 1: I don't know that he's really ever had that, So
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  Speaker 1: I think I don't know enough about his past and
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  Speaker 1: upbringing if there was emotional strain there. But our relationship
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  Speaker 1: definitely got more strained over the years.
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  Speaker 3: So after that event with the sixteen year old girl,
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  Speaker 3: did did you start to did you resent your father
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  Speaker 3: for that?
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  Speaker 1: I don't know that I resented him. I mean maybe
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  Speaker 1: deep down I did. I don't consciously remember resenting him
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  Speaker 1: for it. I just think I felt really confused and
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: hurt and didn't understand like why my I guess quote
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  Speaker 1: unquote best friend essentially all of a sudden had to
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  Speaker 1: be out of my life. So it was it was
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  Speaker 1: definitely definitely put something there in my heart for sure.
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  Speaker 3: And so when when you said you said that you
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  Speaker 3: know women or girls are started to you know they
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  Speaker 3: were they would kind of be attracted to you or
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  Speaker 3: they would pursue you. What I mean, what was that like?
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  Speaker 3: And did you were you did you feel any attraction
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  Speaker 3: towards them or was it just kind of like I
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm getting this attention and I'm not sure
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  Speaker 3: what to do with it? Like what was that like?
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  Speaker 1: Well, I mean it didn't happen like immediately, but you know,
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  Speaker 1: a couple of years later, I became friends with you know,
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  Speaker 1: another girl. We all were homeschool, but then a couple
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  Speaker 1: of my younger siblings started going to a Christian school.
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  Speaker 1: Of course, it was that a Christian school. You know,
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  Speaker 1: I tell people, the enemy he doesn't leave Christians alone.
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  Speaker 1: He's not just after the kids out there that aren't
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: in a Christian home. The enemy wants to climb in
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  Speaker 1: the windows of Christian homes and go after our children. So,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: you know, the enemy was after me, and I believe
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: it's you know, God had a big plan for me.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: So the enemy wanted to take me out before I
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  Speaker 1: could fulfill God's purpose for my life. So my younger
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  Speaker 1: sister was going to a Christian school and she played basketball,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: so I was the older sister. I could drive, I
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  Speaker 1: was sixteen. Now, I'd take her to all of her
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: games and all of her practices, and then the bleachers
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  Speaker 1: sat this girl watching her girlfriend, who was the captain
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: of the basketball team. So I became friends with this
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  Speaker 1: girl because we were at all the basketball teams a
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: basketball games together, and you know, I didn't know that
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  Speaker 1: she was in the lifestyle. She just became my best
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  Speaker 1: friend again. But I did have I was getting mature
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  Speaker 1: enough to go like, oh, I wonder if this girl
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  Speaker 1: is this terrible gay thing again. You know, I was older.
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  Speaker 1: Now I'm sixteen, and I'm thinking, oh my goodness, like
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  Speaker 1: this can't be happening, Like I can't be becoming friends
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  Speaker 1: yet with another girl that is also gay. How in
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  Speaker 1: the world could this be happening. But we became very
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  Speaker 1: very close friends, and definitely an emotional relationship was there.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know that I was physically attracted to me
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  Speaker 1: once she had a girlfriend that she was actually engaged to,
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  Speaker 1: So that actually became awkward and interesting because her girlfriend
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  Speaker 1: then started to get jealous of our friendship and I
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  Speaker 1: did end up asking her like, you know, are you gay.
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  Speaker 1: I don't remember the whole conversation, but you know, she
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  Speaker 1: denied it at first, and so then I kept being
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  Speaker 1: her friend, and then finally she confided to me that
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  Speaker 1: she was gay, and then I'm like, oh no, I
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  Speaker 1: can't tell my parents because They're going to excommunicate her
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  Speaker 1: from my life and I'm going to lose yet another
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  Speaker 1: best friend. So that's became this pattern in my life
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  Speaker 1: that when I would become friends with a girl and
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: then I would find out that she was gay or lesbian,
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  Speaker 1: I would be like, oh no, I gotta I can't
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  Speaker 1: tell my parents because I don't want to lose another friend.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so what about boys, Like when you were sixteen
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  Speaker 3: and in that during that age, were you attracted to boys? Like,
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  Speaker 3: were you interested in boys?
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  Speaker 1: Yes? And no? I mean I my parents forbid dating,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: so you know, I never I never went on dates.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: I mean I did. I was allowed to go to
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: a friend's homecoming to end a prom for a special thing.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: But but we were we were raised that we're under
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: your umbrella of your dad until you're under the umbrella
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: of your husband, and almost like it's going to be,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: you know, a match made marriage. So my dad was,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: you know, he was very controlling. He told people in
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: the church basically who they could marry and who they
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: couldn't marry, and so it was almost like I couldn't
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: be attracted to a boy because that was basically forbidden.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: Forbidden if you know what I mean, it's forbidden fruit.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: It was, it was forbidden fruit. So honestly, I don't
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: really know if I was attracted to boys or not,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: because it was just like it wasn't there. And you know,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: I actually was sexually molested as a child, so that
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: of course played into me having not feeling safe around men, honestly.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: So it went on and off from quite a young
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: age until I was about sixteen.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: And it was not my dad, I like to clarify that,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: but my dad when he found out, he didn't I
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: feel once again, handle it correctly. He basically just brushed
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: it under the rug and said we're never going to
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: talk about this. So again, the person who should have
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: protected me from it happening, and then when he did
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: find out about it, didn't deal with it appropriately, left
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: me that much more vulnerable, that much more lacking of
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: trusting a man. So I mean, deep down, like I said,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to get married and have a bunch
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: of kids. I love kids. I love babies. So I
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: wouldn't say that I wasn't attracted to men, because I
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: always imagined that I was going to marry a man
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: and have kids. But at the same time, I, honestly,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Beckett really probably wasn't attracted to men. I was pretty asexual,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: I think, like I think, I just all of that
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: was just shut down. I mean, it was just really
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: shut down in my in my mind and in my emotions.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: And I've dealt with a lot of health struggles because
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: of all the trauma and so not to get into
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: all the whole scientific stuff of it, and you maybe
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: have done some research too, but I've tried to then
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: as I got set free, like understand, like, you know,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: why was I vulnerable to this lifestyle? Besides you know
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: the issues that I've told you about, and I've even
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: read that, like you know, people that are in the
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: lifestyle that they have like their petuitary glan is smaller,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: or the petuitary gland doesn't function quite correctly. And I
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: actually have a lot of issues with my peituitary gland,
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: And so I'm like, was the trauma from my childhood
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: did that affect my pituitary gland, which is the master hormone,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: which tells all of your body what other hormones to produce.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so not.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: To get into a health science conversation here, Yeah, I think.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: I think in the nineties it was was it Simon
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: Levy who came up with this peituitary gland theory? I
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: think it's him, remember, was it him?
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but I'm not I can't remember for sure. But then,
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: so when you're in your twenties, you had a job
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: and your boss was a lesbian and then you guys
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: didn't talk about that and how you became best friends
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: and then ended up in a.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Relationship ship right, well, so you know, having different girls
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: pursuing me. I just look at it that it was.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: It was like the enemy was just getting me more
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: and more comfortable with this lifestyle essentially. Yeah, so I am.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: I'm back living with my family for now, living in
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Colorado at the time, and I take a job with
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: a television and sports marketing company, this glamour job. We
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: flew all over the country putting on downhill skiing events
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: for national television, and so I was on the road
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: a lot, and so I wasn't at church, I wasn't
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: with my you know, I was part of the singles group.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: I wasn't with the singles group that much any longer.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: And you know, a little side story I should share
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: here is the worship leader. I thought I was going
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: to marry and you know, but but he he turned
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: out to decide that he had the gift of celibacy,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: and so everybody thought that we were going to get married.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, we canceled getting
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: dating because he decided that if he wasn't going to
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: marry me, he was never going to get married. And
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: true to his word, he's never gotten married. But I
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: think that was just one more little chisel in the
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: what's wrong with me? Like, how come this guy that everybody,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: the pastor would even go, where's the ring? Where are
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: you getting married? So that relationship had just ended, and
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I'm like, and by the way, I mean, we never
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: even hardly kissed, and I just thought he was just
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: being really respectful of my boundaries. But turns out he
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: just wasn't physically attracted to women. Oh okay, okay, So.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: Did he end up coming out as a gay man.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: No, No, he never came out as a gay man.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: He just believed that he has the gift of celibacy. Wow,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: And he never came out as a gay man. And
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: you know, I kind of could understand it because my
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: uncle has never been married and he's just felt like
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: he had the gift of celibacy and he could do
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: more for the ministry, and he's an elder, and so
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: I was like, well, Okay, this guy, I guess is
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: like my uncle. He has the gift of celibacy. But
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: I bring that up because that ended right before I
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: got into this relationship. So I think there was some
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: hurt still from this. And I remember thinking, man, if
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: this guy who seems so perfect for me, you know,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: doesn't want to marry me, I just need to go
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: live my life. Like so anyway, I'm not home, I'm
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: not connected with the church and the singles group because
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: we traveled all over the country putting on you know stuff.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: My boss was a woman. We again just you know,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: for a woman, it's such an emotional relationship, and so
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: it became it began as an emotional friendship relationship. And
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: of course my radar is up and I'm thinking, oh
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: my goodness, like, oh my goodness, I think this. I
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: think she's gay? Am I goodness, like, do I want
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: to ask her, like, you know? And and so I did.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, i'd actually asked her like, you know, are
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: you a lesbian? And she denied it. First off, she
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: she grew up Catholic, she was very in the closet.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: She'd only been with one other woman before me, and
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: so she, uh, you know, we we just we just
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: began an emotional affair essentially. And then I remember I
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: was I was at her house for like a little
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Christmas dinner, just the two of us, and all of
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: a sudden, you know, We're cuddling and she's kissing me,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, what's happening here? I'm thinking, wait, I
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: thought I thought you I go wait, I thought you
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: weren't gay, and she's like, yeah, I lied, I'm okay, Okay,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: I'm like okay, so yeah, I mean, then you know it,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: it went really really quick before I knew it. I
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: moved into her condo and then I was like, hey,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: I want to buy a house, and so we went
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: house hunting together. And then we bought a house together
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: and stopped at a cat goted a dog, and.
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: You all lesbians, they all.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Very good guns. I got with her. I was like,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: oh okay, so yeah, that's that's what happened. Nobody knew
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: though we were. I mean, she had a couple gay friends,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: you know, but we didn't go to the gay bars.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: We weren't in in the gay scene. You know, we didn't.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: We didn't drink. You know, we worked a lot. We golfed, rollerbladed, hiked,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: snowski very active. But she didn't tell her family. I
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: didn't tell my family, and everybody just thought we worked
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: together and we were best friends and we were roommates.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: So you know, I say, sin is fun for a season,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: and she's she's I say, it was a it was
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: a counterfeit love.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: Yes, she seemed too. That's so funny. I use the
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: same terminology. It's a counterfeit love. It's not because true love.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, according to Paul and And on Pricidians thirteen,
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: love is patient, love is kind love da da. Love
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: does not rejoice and wrongdoing. So if you're that's not
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: true love. Like when I thought I was in love
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: the five times I had like serious, serious boyfriends, it
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: was it wasn't real love. It was it was a
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: first of all, it was a sinful thing, but it
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: was also it was a neurotic love. It was almost
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: like a I always say, like it are my relationships
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: with guys lived in this sort of like neurotic space,
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: And there was never stability. It was always eggshells. It
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: was always like what especially for gay men, it's always like,
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: you know, you better be in shape, and you better
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: have good abs, and you better like you know, it's
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: like it's all like physical and or you better have
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: a great you know, career or da da da, or
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: else I'm out of here. So there was always that
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: kind of like anxiety under underlying anxiety in all of
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: my relationship. But so, how long were you in this
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: relationship with her and how did it end?
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we were We were together for a couple years,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: but all in all it ended up being almost four
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: years because it was so hard to get out. I mean,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: I just go. It's such as you know, it's such
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: a stronghold. So the Columbine shooting happened in Colorado if
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: you remember that back in the yeah, yea, yeah, the
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: school shooting, and we were together, we were full on together,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: and I remember that was one of the first things
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: that kind of pricked my heart because I just I
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: remember watching the TV with her and just going, Wow,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: these high school kids are standing up for their faith,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: and here I am, like living in this lifestyle and
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: I am living in so much sin. Yet these kids
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: are willing to like die for Jesus and I can't
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: even live for him. So I remember there was something
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: kind of stirring in my heart at the time. I mean,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: of course, you know, I grew up knowing that it
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: was wrong, but I just always buried those feelings. Like
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: I just she was if she was feeling, fulfilling the
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: voids and the longings that I had had probably all
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: through childhood. But again, it was a counterfeit love. It
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: wasn't going to really fulfill but it seemed to fulfill them,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: but it was it was temporary. So I I just
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: I honestly grew so sick of my sin, Beckett. And
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: it's truly just a miracle of God because when I speak,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: people go, but I like, how did you get out?
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: And I go, you know what, like hearing your story
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: a little bit about how you had your mom praying
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: for you, it just makes me cry because honestly, I've
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: actually never cried sharing my testimony except once before. But
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't have people praying for me because
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: nobody knew I was in the lifestyle, right, you know.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: So, but did your parents Were they wondering why you
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: weren't married yet, or like, were they like asking you, like,
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: where's your new boyfriend?
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: They weren't, actually, you know, I mean part of it
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: was they you know, they have nine kids, and they
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: also had a lot going on in their life and
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: in their world, and I think they just were like, well,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: NAMA's off living her life and this kid's doing this,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: and you know, I had a sibling in Europe and
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: a sibling in Hawaii, and it was just like, you know,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: and and there's a whole side of my family issues
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: that I it's too much to get into on this show,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: but I had ended up dealing with a lot of
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: struggle and separation, ended up being excommunicated from my family
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: prior to getting into this relationship, then was let back
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: into my family. So there was there was already kind
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: of a lot of strain between my dad and I.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: So I think they, I mean, maybe they wondered if
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: I was in a relationship with her. They never asked,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: and I never told him. So, you know, the Lord
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: has showed me that my granny was always praying for me,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: and now she didn't know I was in the lifestyle,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: but I know she was praying for me, just as
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: a grandma praise for a child to just Lord. But
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: I grew so sick on my sin. There was such
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: a battle in my soul that I could not keep
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: weight on. I wore size zero and my clothes just
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: hung on me. I looked I looked like I had
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: a serious eating disorder. Yet I would eat and eat
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: and eat, and my girlfriend was worried about me. I
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: would get on a scale and be like, oh my goodness,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: like I had to gain weight, but I couldn't get
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: no matter how much how many calories I took in.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: And I never was blaming nothing, But people would ask me,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: my coworkers, like, you have an eating disorder and take
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: care of you, and I'm like, I don't like I
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: just but what was happening is I was so stressed
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: that the turmoil from this sin was now I was
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: now wearing it on the outside. Essentially.
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: And I remember, you know, one time, getting out of
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: the shower and looking at myself, going, I am skin
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: and bones, and the verse from David in Psalms where
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: he says, you know, because of my sin, my bones
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: are wasting away. And I remember thinking, oh my goodness,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: that's that's what's happening to me. Like if I don't
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: do something, I'm gonna I'm gonna die, Like I'm gonna
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: I'm wasting away. And I didn't want to end the
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: relationship with her. I mean, it's I tell people, it's
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: not like we had this big argument or this big
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: fight or something. But because I say God's word does
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: not return void, I grew up with so much of
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: the Word in me. And I also like to quote
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: the verse the letter of the law, you know, kills,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: but the spirit gives life. And so I knew I
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: knew the letter of the law, but I honestly don't know, Beckett,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: if I actually knew the Lord, because I really say
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: I was a Saul that then turned to a Paul.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: You know, I knew so much scripture, but I did
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: not have an intimate personal relationship with the Lord until
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: the Lord set me free. But I knew enough. I
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: knew that Jesus was going to be the only way
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: to help me, to rescue me, and so I always
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: share my girlfriend was upstairs in our bedroom. We had
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: a three story house in Colorado, and I was in
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: our kitchen. I was about ten o'clock at nine. I
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: just remember taking a kitchen towel and I just remember
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: just like just trying to rip it into and I
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: just I just had tears streaming down my face, and
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: I just I just felt my heart was I just said, Lord,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: this is my heart. It's being ripped in two. And
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: I just said, I love this woman, but I know
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: I can't stay with her. And that was like the
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: real turning point as far as like me, I guess
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: making the decision of I got to choose. I'm choosing
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Jesus above my own heart, is what it was. And
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: I have I've had to tell myself, you know what,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: that's true for every one of us. Every day we're
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: faced with are we gonna follow the way of the world,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: the wide path that leads to destruction, or are we
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: going to choose the narrow way that leads to life.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: And so I made the choice then that I needed
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: to end it with her. And I wish I could
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: say like I just picked up the phone, but I
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: went back upstairs and got in bed with her. You know,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: it wasn't like, okay, hey, by the way, it's over.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: You know, we had exchanged rings, like here's your ring.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Like it wasn't. It wasn't that simple. So but that
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: was that was the beginning of my heart going Okay,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna unpry one finger and Jesus right there, and
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: then I'm going to unpry another finger and he was there.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: But it was a lot of like two steps forward,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: three steps back, because I had to not only emotionally
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: untangle myself from this person that really was the first
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: person in my whole life that I felt like loved me.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Besides my mom, she was probably the first person that
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: I felt love to me, understood me, that protected me,
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: that cared for me. That she was a nurture in nature,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: you know, in her spirit. And you know, my parents
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: maybe had so many kids they couldn't give us all
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: the individual attention that maybe I wanted or needed. But
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: I so it was a long process to end it.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Because we owned a house together, we worked together, we
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: had animals together. So it and because I had been
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: in such darkness the you know, I wasn't I didn't
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: make wise decisions even in the steps to how to
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: get out because I had been living my mind was
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: just so clouded with darkness. And so you know, the
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: Lord gives us light for the next step. If the
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Lord had shown me everything that I was going to
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: have to do to be set free, I probably would
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: have been like, I can't do all that, Lord, But
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: he just would give me enough light and then I
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: could trust him for the next step, for the next step.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: And so it it took. It took a couple of
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: years before I actually moved into my own place and
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: we put our house on the market and I quit
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: my job, and you know, really was fully face down, Lord,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: this is your life. I am fully surrendered to you.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, you know, I don't know, I
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: don't know if there's going to be ever a man
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: that would ever want this mess I've made. But Lord,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: whatever you want to do, I am yours. I am
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: fully surrendered to you. And it wasn't easy, as you know,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: getting out of the lifestyle. I mean, the enemy he
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: comes to Killsdale and destroy and you know, he tempted
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: me and he got me on a hook and he
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: you know, you give him an inch, and he had
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: taken he had taken over my heart. And so it
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: took it took a couple of years for my heart
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: to be able to be fully surrendered to the Lord,
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: and then took more years after that for just the
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: healing process to take place, to be just yeah, healed
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: and sanctified, and to just understand the Lord's forgiveness and
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: grace and then just ton't realize that not only did
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: he forgive my sin, but the next step for me
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: was realizing he forgave the guilt and the shame of
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: it because I dealt was so much. You know, I
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: got dealt with so much guilt and shame. I was,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: you know, a goodie two shoes. I was, you know,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: always wanted to be this perfect child, and so you know,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: I had to come to the end of myself.
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: So what so two things. What was the reaction of
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: your girlfriend when you broke up? And what was the reaction?
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: And did your parents ever find out about this relationship?
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: So I wrote my girlfriend a letter and I basically said,
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: you know, I put the Lord, I put my first
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: love on the back burner, and I said, I have
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: to return to my first love. And you know, she
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: she had said before when we were dating, she's like,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: I don't think we'll always be together. I think your
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: faith is going to pull you away from me at
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: some point. And I remember going, I don't know how
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: to respond to that, you know, but like thinking, deep down,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: she's probably right, but you know, I didn't want to
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: admit it, but I thought she's probably right. So so
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: it was I mean, it was it was very hard.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: But like I said it, even though when I gave
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: her the letter, we were still living together, we were
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: still working together, we were still traveling together. So it
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: was it was a it was a weird, awkward season
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: because you know, then she'd be like, but I want
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: to marry you, Like like what if we just get married,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: Like what if we you know, I'm like, but I
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: want to have kids and my kids need a dad,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: and you know, so so it wasn't just this, and
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, it was hard, and it was
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: hard for me to see the pain I put her through,
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: you know, because I want the you know, I want
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: the best. I want the best for her. And then
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: when I moved into my own place, I didn't have
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: any furniture, so like she she helped me move. She
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: brought the furniture from the house. It was her furniture
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: from our place into my condo. Like so so, like
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: I said, it was you know, it took a while
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: to like really.
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: To untangle that Yeah, yeah, to.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Untangle that mess. So you know, I guess I guess
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: she could say she went through her through her own heartbreak,
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: of course, and I went through my own heartbreak. But
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: I knew that it was the only way to true peace.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: I knew, I knew that it was the only way
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: to true joy, and and I had to die to myself.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: And then when I when I did, is when I
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: you know, the Lord started filling me with more and
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: more of his peace to then make the next best
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: decision to be free. And then I actually moved to
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: a different part of I. We were in northern California,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: my girlfriend and I when we finally when I finally
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: moved out, and then I moved to southern California. I
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: just I knew that I needed to like really separate,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: so I wouldn't, you know, pump into her or whatever.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: But there is something where you you have to you
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: can't just decide to be broken up. You have to
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: actually really physically separate, Like you know, my mind was
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: so much of the well, we could just be roommates.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: I'll just move into this other room. Let's just be
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: you know, because my mind was it doesn't work.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: It don't work.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, I was wanting it to work, but at
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: the end of the day, it didn't work.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: So what about your parents? Did they ever find out?
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Parents? Oh? Yeah, yeah, yep. I didn't tell them. I
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: didn't tell them right away. I ended up telling one
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: of my sisters after I quit my job and after
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: I'd moved into my own apartment, and my sister ended
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: up telling my family, which at that point I was
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: totally because I'm pretty much an open book, Like I
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: kind of wanted to like shout it from the rooftops, like, hey,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: look at what Jesus has done, Like I can't believe,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: like He's I was so torn up and then ensnared
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: and then trapped and my heart was such a mess.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: But now look at I'm Like, I'm free. I'm so free.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: I can't believe it. But there's so much family stuff.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: It's kind it's kind of complicated. I shortly about a
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: month after I moved into my own place and quit
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: my job and was just living off my savings account,
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: I was sending out resumes. I was, you know, I
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: was starting my life over. I mean I literally was
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: starting my life over because my life was so entwined
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: with her. And now I'm now our house is on
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: the market, so we have no rental income because we're
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: renting the house out to some people, so paying a
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: mortgage while the house is on the market, living in
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: my own apartment paying that rent, and I've quit my job.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: But I'm like, Lord, I mean, this is this is
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: your life. Whatever you want to do. I know that
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: if you could get me out of this mess I
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: just was in, then you can take care of me
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: like you are my God. I was about a month
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: into this, like healing place and just hiking and just like, Lord,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: wherever you send me, I'll go. And I got a
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: FedEx ding dong at my door and I open it
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: up and I'm thinking, who even knows I live here?
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: I've been here like a month, Like whupan has this address?
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: And it was a letter from my mom and dad
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: and my eight siblings all signed. And I'm like, and
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: my siblings lived, some lived in other parts of the world.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking, how this letter did they fly this letter
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: across the country. I'm thinking, I'm like, Steve me these
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: signatures Beckett, and I'm thinking, like, these are their real signature.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: But the letter was excommunicating me from my family.
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: Because of the relationship with no And.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: That's what soking is. People always think that me being
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: excommunicated was because I had been in this lifestyle, but
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: it wasn't. And it's it's a lot to go into.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: On the show, they did put a PS at the
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: letter that said, ps and we know about your lifestyle
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: that you were in, kind of like, we know about it,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: but that's not the that's not why they excommunicated me.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: Well, we have to do now. We have to know
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: why you are. You can't just bring this up and
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: then say, oh, well, I can't talk about it just briefly.
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, if you could briefly tell us what briefly.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: I'll briefly tell you my dad. And I try to
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: say this very respectfully because I do want to honor
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: my parents. I believe there is a blessing and honoring
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: our parents, and and I write in my book you
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: know that I am trying to share my story as truthfully,
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: but as honestly as in honor as much as possible. So,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: so I was raised in a very godly home, and
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: I'm so grateful for the upbringing. But my dad cares
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: so much about his reputation and what people think of him.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: And when I was about eighteen, I quit working for
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: his company, and he took it as betrayal. He took
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: it as a slap in the face, and so that
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: began a lot of separation and trauma. And so when
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: I had just moved out, one of my sisters she
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: had started asking me, like, what happened when you were
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: eighteen between you and dad? And like why what? Basically
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: asking me. She was starting to wake up to some
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: of the struggles and weaknesses going on in my family,
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: and so I started sharing with her some of the
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: issues with my dad that I had seen, and so
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: she told a brother, and a brother told my dad,
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: and so my dad freaked out and thought, oh, my goodness,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Nami's going to destroy my whole family. I need to
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: get her out of the family before she destroys my
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: whole family. Essentially, So it really had to do with
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: his reputation. And I had not at the time gone
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: around and said anything to anybody about the struggles between
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: my dad and I, but he was he has very
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: insecure and very paranoid that and his reputation is what
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: he cares so much about, and so he was very
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: concerned that I was going to ruin his reputation, and
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: so he he essentially, I say, almost blackmailed my siblings.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: He flew them from all over the country and won
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: in Europe to their house in Colorado and said, if
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: you don't sign this letter, then don't ever come back.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: And so they met for a weekend and I was
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: told they were crying. They were asking him not to
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: do it. They didn't want to sign the letter, but
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: they felt that if they didn't sign it, that'd be
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: the end of them being part of the family as well.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: So wow, it's it's a very complicated.
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: And have you have you since then? Have you reconciled
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: with your father?
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: No? Wow, Yeah, but we've had cried. Oh yes. And
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: that's a whole a whole part of my story is
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: about the forgiveness. So you know, I I know that
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: in me realizing how much I needed to be forgiven
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: for my lifestyle, that the Lord use that for me
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: to be able to forgive my dad. And I remember
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: just I would wrestle with the Lord, like I realized
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: it was, you know, just the grace of God that
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: I was forgiven. And I remember just going over you
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: know in Matthew where it says, you know, to the
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: extent that you forgive, you shall be forgiven. And so
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: I would just have like this argument with Jesus, like,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: but I don't want to forgive my dad, like, I mean,
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: after everything he did to me, Like I mean this,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: this just isn't fair. I mean. But then it'd be like, oh,
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: but this is the truth. I mean, this is what
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: it says here in Red and White. As much as
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: you forgive, you will be forgiven. And I'd be like,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: I need so much forgiveness. I don't want the Lord
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: to withhold any forgiveness for me. I have so wronged him,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: And so I just would have this, you know. And
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: this was within the first year of really separating from
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: my girlfriend and me just really understanding the depth of
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: the blood of the grace that I had received from
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: the Lord. And so it was during this season that
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: I was understanding how much Lord had forgiven me that
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: I knew, I knew I didn't want to be grow
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: bitter at my dad. I knew that that bitterness would
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: destroy me, but it would do nothing to him. I'd
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: be like, he lives in a different state. I mean,
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: he he won't know if I'm bitter with him or not.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: He's not talking to me. He has no relationship with me,
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: so he won't know if I'm bitter. But that bitterness,
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: I knew, is a spiritual cancer, and I knew it
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: would destroy me and eat me up. And so I
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: would every day I get up at four in the
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: morning and it'd be like, Lord, I don't want to
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: be bitter. I don't want to I I want to
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: be bitter towards my dad. I want to hate him,
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: but I know I can't hate him, and so I
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: need to forgive him. But I don't want to forgive him.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: And just this this battle of like how do I
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: forgive him? And help me forgive him? And it was
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: just this this ongoing wrestling match almost with the Lord.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, I knew that
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: with that verse kept coming back to me to the
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: extent that you forgive, you will be forgiven. And so
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: I would just pray, Lord, help me forgive my dad,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: Help me forgive my dad. So it was this ongoing
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: prayer because I knew if I forgave him then I
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be better. And so I remember one morning, you know,
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: getting up at four am to you know, have my
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: I would have two hours with the Lord before I
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: went to work, and I just I just had this
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: vision of the Lord and he was just he was
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: on the cross, and it's like, okay, I I was
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: just learning I have to come under the cross. I
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: have to let his blood cleanse me and and forgive me.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: And I just I come there and I am not
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: responsible for my dad. I'm not responsible for anybody else.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: It's just it's just me and him. And so when
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: I was there, I then saw our heavenly Father, and
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: I just I saw him weeping for my dad's soul,
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: and Beckett, I mean, it was just supernatural. I just
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: started to weep. I just couldn't believe it. It was
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: just like I just saw this picture of my heavenly
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: Father weeping over my dad, and I just started to
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: weep for my dad. And I just was like, oh
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: my goodness, like I forgive my dad. My heart breaks
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: for my dad, and I just, I honestly say, it
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: wasn't It's not in my own flesh to be able
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: to forgive my dad. But I felt like the Lord
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: just like put his his heart on top of my
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: heart so I could forgive my dad through the father's heart.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: And so I'm just I'm so grateful because I could
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: be an absolute mess and train wreck if I had
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: lived twenty plus years now with no relationship with my
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: dad or my mom. And I went actually a few
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: years with no relationship with any of my siblings because
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: of all of this, and one by one many of
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: them have now restored a relationship with me. But my
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: dad did everything he could to keep my siblings from
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: having a relationship with me. And I mean he even
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: went to every church that I would attend, you know,
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: when I would move and try to contact the pastor
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: to tell the pastor, you know, kick her out of
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: your church. She shouldn't be in your church. And so
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: there would be lots of things that will come back
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: to me that my dad was doing to try to
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: hurt me and his own mother. And I'm getting more
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: real on your show than I have anywhere because I
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: just haven't been quite ready to release all of this yet,
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: because I've really been waiting on the Lord for the timing,
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: because I don't want to do anything to do honor
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: my dad. At the same time, I want people to
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: understand how much the Lord can forgive, and I want
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: I want my dad to understand how much I love
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: him and forgive him. And you know, he he's just
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: he's he's upon in the enemy's hand, honestly, and I
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: don't think he understands or realizes what the enemy has
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: done and has been doing through his life. But and
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: I kind of lost track of where I was there,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: but I I just I just am. So I'm just
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: so grateful that the Lord just gave me his heart
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: to love my dad and to forgive my dad, because
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: it has been an ongoing thing over the years where
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: he has tried to Oh, this is what I was saying,
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: is his own mother, my granny, which is now she's
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: now passed away. But shortly after I got this letter,
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: my granny called me and said, don't let your dad
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: know anything about your life. He's out to destroy it.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: And so for that to come and it broke her heart,
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: and it broke my heart to know that my granny
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: is like it's her son, it's her baby's son, and
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: she's breaking over him, and she's breaking over what he's
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: doing to me, her granddaughter. So I just share all
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: that to say, yeah, there's there's so much power in forgiveness.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: There's is so much power in forgiveness. And the quote
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: that says, you know, unforgiveness is like you know, drinking
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: poison expecting the other person to die, right, It's like,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm the one to kill myself if I
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: don't if I don't forgive so but but you know what,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: it's because it's because I needed to be forgiven so much.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: So it's just a beautiful picture of how the Lord
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: works and redeems. Because if I had never gotten into
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: that lifestyle, you know, I don't know, I would maybe
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: not have felt like I had so much that needed
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: to be forgiven, right, and so then I would not
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: have understood the Lord's forgiveness like I do.
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: Because grace, Like that's exactly right. I mean, it's like
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: when you it's like my life. I when I got saved,
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: it was so dramatic and it was such a completely
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: like a one to eighty degree thing that I just
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: God's grace was so magnified because of that. Rather than
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: like if I just you know, growing up in a
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: Christian home and been a Christian all my life kind
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: of thing, and been like the older brother and the
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: prodigal son. It would have been a different thing. But
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: because I was such a deep, strong prodigal, when I
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: got saved, I just got like I was just I was.
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: I mean, I like, the next day, I was just like,
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: I can't I can't believe God had mercy on me,
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: like had grace on me, his grace. And still to
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: this day, I'm just like, how even at that conference
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: that we were that we were at, you know, it's
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: like those I have those moments all the time when
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: I'm out on the stage and I'm like, how in
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: the world did I get here? Like, oh my God, Grace,
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: Like this is crazy that I'm at this conference talking
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: about this issue. Like right, It's just it blows my mind.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: Favor just got his favor and love is just more
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: than we could ever ever imagine.
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, So speaking of favor, let's talk about your
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: you found you ended up getting married. Uh, talk about that,
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: how you met your husband and then you had two daughters.
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, I sure did. Well that's a whole nother Yeah,
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: amazing miracle of God's favor because you know, I I
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: just wanted to grow up and get married and have kids.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: But after the lifestyle, I just thought, you know, I'm
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: damaged goods. So God had to just you know, heal
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: me and go I'm a new creation in Christ. But
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: I had to I had to believe that and receive
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: that myself before I was ready, I guess, to be married.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it was ten years after I got out
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: of the lifestyle that I met my husband. So I
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: had ten years of just you know, falling in love
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: with Jesus and traveling the world doing ministry, and the
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: Lord knew, I guess I just I needed that much
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: time as well as I learned to just pray for
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: my husband even though he wasn't my husband yet, and
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: I just the Lord just I just said, God, I'm
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: just going to pray for his finances, for his emotions,
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: for his friends, because he's out there somewhere, and I'm
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: just going to believe God is going to bring me
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: my husband. And so I think got to the point
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: of just I just started thanking the Lord, thank you
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: Lord for my husband, thank you that you're bringing me
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: my husband, and just acting in faith as if, like
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say if we were already married,
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: but you know, like yeah, because I was like, you know,
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: we believe, therefore we speak. So I'm just I'm going
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: to speak it out. I'm just going to believe in
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: faith that God is going to bring me my husband.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: And so, uh yeah, ten years later we met. We
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: both were at the same church here in Santa Barbara.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: But I sat on the front row, and uh, he's
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: real reserved and he sat kind of in the back.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: And so for five years, Beckett, he watched me walk
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: down and he just is he's so reserved, he never
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: was going to approach me. You're like, come on, you know, honestly,
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: I he likes to joke and say, you were so
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: busy praying for a husband you had no time to
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: notice me. So it is it is kind of true,
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: you know. I I I because I kind of had
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: a fear of men, like I had a lot of
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: healing to do to be able to trust men, and
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: because of the molestation, and I never I just I
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: had had I'd had Honestly, I had had so many
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: men actually proposed to me and they hardly knew me,
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: yet they just would propose. It'd be like, oh, you
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: make a great wife, and you make a great politician's wife,
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: and and so I always said, no, I'm serious. But
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: I mean I had this like fear of like, I
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: don't want somebody just to marry me because I'm going
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: to look like good arm candy for them. And that's
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: that It kind of happened to me. So I was,
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: you know, pretty stand offish to men. I'm sure I'm
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: a pretty strong, bold woman as well. And because I
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: just felt like I want somebody that really is going
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: to nurture my heart and not just go, hey, here's
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: a pretty girl, I was probably pretty unapproachable. So we
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: actually met it as place of work, but one of
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: the elder's wives tried to set us up. But I
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: was being set up. I was always being set up
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: with somebody people I think felt bad for me. Here's
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: this girl, she's in her thirties. Now she's in her
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: late thirties, Like, what's with her? How come she's not married?
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: And you know, then when I would go on dates, Beckett,
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: I never knew when am I supposed to tell the
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: guy about my past? It was this really awkward thing,
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: like at what point in this, you know, I don't
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: want to wait too long and then be like so
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: upset with me that I didn't tell him sooner. But
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: then sometimes I would tell him like right away, and
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: I'd never see or hear from them again. They were
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: so freaked out. So it was this, you know, really
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: hard balance of like when do you reveal this part
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: of your life to them? And how are they going
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: to take it? And yeah, some of them are going
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: to disappear. I mean they're not going to be able
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: to handle it. So I was like, the Lord knows
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: he has somebody that's going to be able to handle
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: my past. So I was set up with him, but
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: I said, no, I'm set up with somebody else right now,
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: like one at a time, and I went into his
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: place of work. He worked at the BMW dealership, and
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: he knew who I was because he had been watching
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: me for five years, but I had never never, never
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: seen him in my mind. So he goes, yeah, we
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: go to the same church, and I go, you go
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: to my church like who are you? And I you know,
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: I was not like love at first sight, not by
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: any means. But he brought me to his office and
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: he shared his testimony with me, and he just he
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: was not cocky or overconfident, but yet he just had
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: a humble way, but he felt comfortable around me. And
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: I felt like other guys were either too cocky, but
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: they probably had to be pretty cocky in order to
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: approach me because I was so unapproachable, or they were
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: too like scared to approach me. So he just yeah. Anyway,
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: long story short, we met and four months later got married,
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: and we had a really quick let's just get on
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: with this, and that was for a There was a
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: lot of different reasons that played into us getting married quickly.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: I don't recommend it for everybody, but for us some circumstances,
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: with all of the drama with my family and our
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: pastors were moving to Maoi, we really wanted them to
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: marry us, and so for a lot of timing reasons,
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: we got married really quick. But he had been married
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: before and is nine years older, and he had two
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: sons from his first wife, and you know, God knows
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: what we need. I would never probably have gone on
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: a date with him because I said, I had never
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: dated somebody that had been married before, I had never
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: dated somebody that had kids. I was like, I don't
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: need that baggage. And the Lord's like, what about your baggage? Yeah,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: So anyway, I just know that God hand picked him
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: for me, and the Lord knew that he was perfect
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: for me, even though he was not what I pictured.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: But because he had been married before, he had a
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: isectomy with in his first marriage, because of a lot
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: of struggles there, and honestly, part of the reason he
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: never really approached me is he had such an awful divorce.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: His wife cheated on him, left him, and he just thought,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: I will never get remarried. This was so awful. But
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: he'd always thought I would make a fun coffee date
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: type of thing, but he never thought he'd actually get remarried.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: So that was a total miracle that the Lord did
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: on his heart to want to marry me, and that
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: I wanted to marry somebody that had been divorced and
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: had kids. And I'm like, hey, you know, I'm the
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: oldest of nine. I want to have a big family.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: He's like, but you're thirty seven, and your doctor says
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: you don't know if you ovulate or not. So he's thinking, well,
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: and I've had a issectomy, so like he's like we're done.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, his boys were like twelve and fourteen. But
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: he's like, you know, when we're talking marriage, He's like,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: but we can, we can, I can get it reversed.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: But in his mind he's thinking, no, we're just gonna
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: go on because chances are I'm not going to be
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: able to conceive anyway. Long story short, I start praying
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: for God to change his heart to want to have
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: kids and I go get checked. They're like, well, you're
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: actually ovulating. So I'm like, honey, you know guess what.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: You can have that reversal surgery. The doctor says, I
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: actually am ovulating, and he looks at me like, what
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: are you talking about. So that was another year and
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: a half of God growing my faith, just praying, not
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: nagging him, just praying for him to want to have
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: this reversal surgery. Yeah, he had the reversal surgery. They're
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: not always successful. Praise God. It was successful. The doctor said, Okay,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: it looks like it was successful. Be about a year
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: before you probably could conceive because it will take a
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: while for the sperm to be healthy. So we're like, okay,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: he'll be about a year. Very first month I am pregnant.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: We're looking at this piece that going. We couldn't believe
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: our eyes. So I'm forty years old, conceive completely naturally,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: have a home birth, have my first miracle daughter. I'm
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: like blown away, just like God redeemed my life.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: Wait, how old were you when you had your first daughter?
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: I was forty?
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: Wow?
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah I was forty. Yeah. No. People are like
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: what I mean, They think, surely you did iv Yeah,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm like, nope, completely natural. I had a
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: home birth even wow, and not even an aspirin backet.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: Whoa, wow, that's a great.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, my mom had all home births, so
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: that's I was at my siblings births, at my mom
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: with my mom. So I just, you know, I was
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: I thought that's what I would do. So but anyway,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: I say all that because we conceived as soon as
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: the reversal surgery had happened, so we just thought, oh,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: we'll get pregnant again, and you know, I better hurry up.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: I'm forty, you know, let's start having these kids. But
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: it was six and a half years of infertility and
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: of multiple multiple miscarriages, and I just it's a whole
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: nother show because it was such a trying time for
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: my faith and my life because I so so longed
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: for another child and so long for my daughter to
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: have a sibling. I couldn't imagine her growing up an
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: only child, especially me with you know, eight siblings, just
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: like you a big family, and I have people go,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: why don't you just be thankful for the daughter you have,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: you know, or why don't you adopt like you're you're
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: really too old to probably get pregnant again. Like, but
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: I got to the place where I was like, Lord,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: if you have this for me, then you're gonna have
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: to give me your hope and faith because I am
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: so done with this journey. And every single month it's
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: it's a roller coaster. You know, every month you think
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: you're pregnant, and then all of a sudden you're not,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: and then every month and so so every month, you know,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: when I would like realize I wasn't pregnant, I'd be
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: like and and within a couple hours, I just would
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: feel like the Lord would be infuse me with his
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: hope and I go, Okay, Lord, you've given me enough
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: hope for another month. Okay, I'm going to hope you
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: hopeing you for another month to conceive, and so by yeah,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: by the grace of God, I gave birth at forty
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: six to my my second daughter, and again completely natural.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: We're very very pro life. We it's a whole other show,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: but we don't believe that we should take matters into
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: our own hands. I was like, I don't want to
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: burst birth and ishmael by by doing IVF. I just
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: and that's between. Everybody can decide how they feel about that.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: But I just felt my husband and I just really
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: felt like, you know what, if the Lord has another
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: child for us, then he can do this, you know, supernaturally.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, I had my second one for six
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: and a half years later and named her Ruth on
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: a hope. I had to give her middle named Hope
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: because it was truly the Lord giving me hope to
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: keep hoping. And so I'm just so grateful for God.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: He redeems our life from the pit, and He's just
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: given me way way more than I ever ever ever deserved,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: ever imagined, never imagine I get to meet you, Beckett
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: and be on your show and get to share, you know,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: what God has done and set me free from And
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: so yeah, I think.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: Well we're going to leave it there because that's the
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: best thing, that's the best place to leave it. Because
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: you just said it all. But tell us about just
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: before we leave, tell us about you have a book
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: coming out later this year. What's the book.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, I'm very excited. I actually I wrote a rough manuscript,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: probably almost fifteen years ago, put it on the shelf,
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: and I'm finally finishing it. It takes you through my childhood,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: and it takes you to when I am twenty seven
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: years old and I have just gotten out of the
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: relationship with my girlfriend, and I've just gotten the letter
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: excommunicating me from my family, and I get on my
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: knees and I hold the letter up and I say, lord,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: this is your life, whatever you want to do with it.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: So the book is titled Unsilenced, and it talks about,
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: you know, I kind of my tagline is, you know,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: perfection shattered when truth and love broke through. So I
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: had to live this very perfect life. I felt. My
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: dad had this very high expectation of what we should
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: look like and how we should dress, and how we
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: should behave, and so I try to fulfill that perfection
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: for so long. But all of that shattered when I
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: really met Jesus and when his truth and love came through.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: So it's the journey of how God brought me through
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: basically what you've heard. It just goes into a lot
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: more detail of my story and how Jesus is It
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: was a miracle, how Jesus did a miracle with my life,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: and to give people hope that it doesn't matter what
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: struggle they are in, or what their child is dealing
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: with same sex attraction or whatever sin struggle, that there
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: is a God who can absolutely set them free. He's
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: a God of miracles and nothing, nothing is impossible for
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: our Lord, and I'm living proof of it.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: I am too. Amen. Amen, Wait did you say when?
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: When is it available?
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: This late later this year? I don't have an official
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: release date. Yeah, the last chapter is literally we've just
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: finished the last chapter. It's in the editing process right now,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: so it's going to go to print this summer, so
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: hopefully by September October we'll have it ready for purchase.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: That's awesome. Okay, Well, congrats on the book, Naomi van Wike.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: Thank you for coming on the show and sharing your
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: amazing story. God is amazing, I mean, his grace. I
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: can't get over it. But thank you for coming on
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: the show.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: Beckett, you are such a joy. I'm so glad God
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: connected us, and thank you so much. I look forward
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: to having you on my show and learn I know.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: I can't wait. I can't wait soon.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much. You're an inspiration. God bless you, God.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: Bless thank you for listening to this episode of The
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: Beckett Cook Show. Your support makes this content possible. All
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: episodes of The Beckett Cook Show are also available on YouTube.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: For more information about Beckett and his ministry, visit his
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: website at Becketcook dot com.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: Thank you to the team at Life Audio for their
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: partnership with us. If you go to lifeaudio dot com,
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: you will find more faith centered podcasts about prayer, Bible study, parenting,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: and more.