Latest / Heavyweight / #64 Kevin
Transcript
- 0:15Speaker 1: Pushkin Hey everyone, today's episode is a special one, but
- 0:23Speaker 1: at the same time it does deal with mental illness
- 0:26Speaker 1: and children in distressing situations, so take care when listening.
- 0:38Speaker 2: You reach Jackie, you leave me a message?
- 0:40Speaker 3: Do you plan? Lets you my message?
- 0:43Speaker 1: Jackie, I haven't heard from you in a while. I
- 0:47Speaker 1: thought maybe the adoration of American candidate isn't enough for you,
- 0:51Speaker 1: so I wanted you to hear all the peoples of
- 0:54Speaker 1: the world, all over the world who want to hear
- 0:57Speaker 1: your voice again. Here are a few of them, Jackie, Jackie.
- 1:00Speaker 1: My name is Jngles. I am from Cyprus, which is
- 1:03Speaker 1: mega far away from where you're from. Jackie, Jackie, Jackie.
- 1:07Speaker 1: This is Tracy recording voice message from London, England, Jackie.
- 1:12Speaker 3: Even here in little Switzerland, the despair is great.
- 1:15Speaker 1: Did Jackie. This is a song from Istanbul.
- 1:18Speaker 3: You are the only person who makes me laugh out loud.
- 1:21Speaker 1: You should definitely come back. You are the highlight of
- 1:23Speaker 1: the show. It means nothing without you.
- 1:28Speaker 3: Onid martez Iva Casine.
- 1:30Speaker 1: Love from Alto and New Zealand. Kinny Shelton, you have
- 1:33Speaker 1: a lovely rist of your day now. And this is
- 1:36Speaker 1: Jonathan from England wishing you Mary Saint peppins that Hello, oh,
- 1:43Speaker 1: I thought you picked up from Pushkin Industries. I'm Jonathan
- 1:53Speaker 1: Goldstein and this is Heavyweight Today's episode Kevin right after
- 2:04Speaker 1: the break. Kevin's email doesn't begin with any small talk,
- 2:18Speaker 1: no longtime listener, first time writer preamble. He gets right
- 2:22Speaker 1: into it. My little brother and I grew up destitute
- 2:26Speaker 1: Kevin Wrights in a public housing project in Sacramento. He
- 2:30Speaker 1: goes on to say that life back then was only
- 2:33Speaker 1: made bearable by the presence of two boys who live
- 2:36Speaker 1: next door, and this is why he's writing. Kevin hasn't
- 2:41Speaker 1: seen them in over thirty years, but he still hasn't
- 2:43Speaker 1: forgotten them. The two boys his friends, Jason and Gerald.
- 2:52Speaker 1: Can you hear me?
- 2:53Speaker 3: Yeah, I can hear you.
- 2:54Speaker 1: Can you hear me?
- 2:55Speaker 3: Yes?
- 2:55Speaker 4: Yes?
- 2:55Speaker 3: Great?
- 2:56Speaker 1: The path that led him to Jason and Gerald is
- 2:59Speaker 1: long and circuitous. Kevin begins the tale back in the
- 3:02Speaker 1: third grade, sitting in class reading.
- 3:06Speaker 5: I would reading a book on the Kremlins.
- 3:08Speaker 1: Based on the movie.
- 3:09Speaker 5: Yeah to Cover was the theatrical poster of the movie,
- 3:13Speaker 5: and I remember it was during that moment that the
- 3:16Speaker 5: teacher just said, Hey, we got to go to the
- 3:19Speaker 5: principal's office. And when you're a kid, that's kind of
- 3:24Speaker 5: memorable because I thought, initially I was in serious trouble.
- 3:32Speaker 1: When Kevin arrived at the principal's office, his mom was there,
- 3:36Speaker 1: surrounded by his five siblings. She explained that she was
- 3:39Speaker 1: leaving their father and taking them all with her.
- 3:42Speaker 5: So, my dad has always been a real imposing, frightening figure,
- 3:48Speaker 5: because he would be everybody in the family if you
- 3:51Speaker 5: didn't really obey his commands. I never thought that he
- 3:56Speaker 5: was malicious, but that he beted us because we screwed
- 4:00Speaker 5: up somehow, one way or another. So he would whip
- 4:02Speaker 5: us with a metal clothes hangar, for example, or he
- 4:05Speaker 5: would pinch us, and when he pinched us, it would
- 4:08Speaker 5: go through the clothing and would leave like half dollar
- 4:11Speaker 5: sized welt of blue and purple and greenish colors.
- 4:16Speaker 1: One day, a neighbor, alarmed by a loud argument between
- 4:20Speaker 1: Kevin's parents, phoned the police, and Kevin's father was arrested.
- 4:24Speaker 1: He spent several days in jail, and when he returned
- 4:27Speaker 1: home he seemed different.
- 4:29Speaker 5: We didn't have the word mentally ill back then, but
- 4:32Speaker 5: we just talked amongst ourselves that he became crazy, and
- 4:36Speaker 5: by crazy, I mean like really crazy. Whatever he endured
- 4:42Speaker 5: in jail must have been so traumatic for my dad
- 4:47Speaker 5: and he invented a word at the time that everything
- 4:50Speaker 5: was dirty.
- 4:52Speaker 1: The dirty fixation began as soon as his father arrived
- 4:55Speaker 1: back home from jail. The first thing he did upon
- 4:58Speaker 1: his return was to ask for a box. He threw
- 5:02Speaker 1: every article of clothing he was wearing inside. Then, standing
- 5:07Speaker 1: naked before the family, he instructed his eldest son to
- 5:10Speaker 1: throw the clothes away.
- 5:12Speaker 5: And he goes up, he takes a shower, and when
- 5:16Speaker 5: he comes back down, he sees that my older bro
- 5:20Speaker 5: brought back the box.
- 5:22Speaker 3: He was telling my bro that why do you bring
- 5:25Speaker 3: the box back? Because the box is.
- 5:28Speaker 5: Dirty, But more importantly, how did you toss out the
- 5:34Speaker 5: dirty clothes?
- 5:35Speaker 3: And my bro said he.
- 5:37Speaker 5: Just grabbed it from the box and tossed it out,
- 5:40Speaker 5: basically indicating to my dad that my bro touched the
- 5:45Speaker 5: clothing himself. My dad just went cirtain. He just he
- 5:49Speaker 5: just beat my bro on the spot right there. But
- 5:52Speaker 5: that was the beginning of this crazy phase where my
- 5:56Speaker 5: dad just completely lost it.
- 6:05Speaker 1: His dad's new obsession only increased the tension between Kevin parents.
- 6:10Speaker 5: And every time they had arguments. We have no clue
- 6:12Speaker 5: what they were talking about because they spoke in Vietnamese,
- 6:15Speaker 5: and although that was my first native language, there was
- 6:18Speaker 5: a time where my dad thought that we weren't learning
- 6:21Speaker 5: English well enough. He forbade the usage of Vietnamese in
- 6:25Speaker 5: the house. Then again, if he heard anybody utter single
- 6:30Speaker 5: word of Vietnamese, he would beat us. And so we
- 6:32Speaker 5: dropped that quickly. But one of the arguments precipitated with
- 6:37Speaker 5: my dad grabbing a cleaver and he throws it across
- 6:43Speaker 5: the room and no one in particular, but it larged
- 6:46Speaker 5: hisself into the wall.
- 6:49Speaker 1: It wasn't long after that that Kevin, his mom, and
- 6:52Speaker 1: his siblings found themselves standing in the principal's office.
- 6:56Speaker 5: We went from the principal's office straight to what I
- 7:00Speaker 5: now know is woman's shelter.
- 7:03Speaker 1: Do you remember that first night that you spent there?
- 7:06Speaker 2: Oh?
- 7:07Speaker 3: Yeah, it was great.
- 7:08Speaker 5: It just felt you wouldn't know anything imposing about the
- 7:12Speaker 5: shelter until you leave. That's when you see the eye
- 7:16Speaker 5: fences with the barber wire over the top. Almost looks
- 7:18Speaker 5: like a prison. But it was great insight. There's a
- 7:20Speaker 5: giant playground or tricycles there was a walk in pantry
- 7:24Speaker 5: that myself and my brother really loved if because you
- 7:28Speaker 5: could walk in and they're all these snacks and instant noodles.
- 7:31Speaker 1: But after a few weeks of feasting on instant noodles.
- 7:35Speaker 5: My mom just suddenly gathers all of us and she
- 7:40Speaker 5: had the paper grocery bag. She just tersely explains to
- 7:46Speaker 5: us that two of us, two of the six of
- 7:50Speaker 5: us kids, will have to return to my dad. She
- 7:54Speaker 5: can't take care of all of us, she cannot keep
- 7:58Speaker 5: all of us. And she said, as she wrote six
- 8:02Speaker 5: of our names on pieces of paper, and she put
- 8:05Speaker 5: all of our names in this paper bag, and she's
- 8:09Speaker 5: going to draw two names into two names, will be
- 8:13Speaker 5: two kids to have to return to my dad. And
- 8:18Speaker 5: I just remember my name with the first name to
- 8:20Speaker 5: be drawn, and I was just I was just shocked.
- 8:26Speaker 5: I don't know at the time I felt, I mean,
- 8:28Speaker 5: there were six of us, two names.
- 8:30Speaker 3: Were to be drawn.
- 8:31Speaker 5: I just thought that my odds were somewhat reasonable. But
- 8:36Speaker 5: looking back at it, I feel like my mom just
- 8:39Speaker 5: rigged the whole thing because she couldn't just say outright,
- 8:45Speaker 5: I want you Kevin, and I want your little bro
- 8:49Speaker 5: to go back to your dad because I feel that
- 8:53Speaker 5: the younger ones won't be able to cope. Well, your
- 8:58Speaker 5: dad's not going to be able to take care of them,
- 9:01Speaker 5: and she wanted to keep my older bro. He was
- 9:04Speaker 5: just the oldest one, favored one.
- 9:07Speaker 1: The plans lablished by the drawing of names from the
- 9:11Speaker 1: paper bag was that Kevin's oldest brother and the three
- 9:14Speaker 1: youngest kids would stay with their mom. Well, Kevin and
- 9:18Speaker 1: his middle brother, Tony would go live with their dad.
- 9:21Speaker 5: At the moment she drew my name, I lost my mom,
- 9:25Speaker 5: my siblings, and what hurt just as much was losing
- 9:29Speaker 5: my older bro. Dad looked up to him. I would
- 9:32Speaker 5: ask him all kinds of questions, everything from life to school.
- 9:37Speaker 5: What color you see when you die? And I still
- 9:40Speaker 5: remember his answer because he said, she don't see any
- 9:43Speaker 5: color when you're dead. But I asked him, what does
- 9:47Speaker 5: that mean? What is the color of no color? That
- 9:50Speaker 5: black or that white? He said, no, it's neither's no color.
- 9:59Speaker 5: To lose him in that one fell swoop when my
- 10:02Speaker 5: mom pulled out my name, let alone knowing that you
- 10:06Speaker 5: have to go back to your dad, who you're super
- 10:10Speaker 5: afraid of. When she drew my name, I remember I
- 10:15Speaker 5: wasn't the only one who was crying.
- 10:17Speaker 3: We all cried. We all cried.
- 10:22Speaker 1: Kevin now has three kids of his own, and in
- 10:25Speaker 1: raising them, he thinks back on that moment their hamster died.
- 10:30Speaker 5: They were crying, and my partner was telling me, Oh,
- 10:35Speaker 5: they're just kids, They're just kids, and they don't really
- 10:40Speaker 5: mean it. But when she said that, I remember I
- 10:45Speaker 5: cried to say around the same age when my name
- 10:48Speaker 5: was drawn from a paper bag, and that cry was
- 10:52Speaker 5: still the deepest cry I ever had in my life.
- 10:55Speaker 5: So I just remembered, No, I got to tend to
- 10:58Speaker 5: my kids. I'm going to bury the hamster in the backyard,
- 11:04Speaker 5: set a proper tombstone, and have a good farewell. I
- 11:09Speaker 5: don't think their cries are going to be any lighter
- 11:12Speaker 5: than their future cries when there adults.
- 11:16Speaker 3: I don't think so.
- 11:23Speaker 1: For the next several years, Kevin had almost no contact
- 11:26Speaker 1: with his mom and siblings. He says his mom would
- 11:29Speaker 1: sometimes drop off food at his dad's place, but she
- 11:32Speaker 1: was never allowed inside. Kevin was eight and Tony was six.
- 11:36Speaker 1: On the night they went back to live with their
- 11:38Speaker 1: dad at his apartment in a public housing project.
- 11:42Speaker 5: I remember he was drinking he's always drinking. I mean,
- 11:46Speaker 5: I've never seen him drink water in my life. He's
- 11:48Speaker 5: always drinking beer and eating peanuts. And that was actually
- 11:52Speaker 5: what he was doing when we came back in the
- 11:54Speaker 5: middle of the living room floor.
- 11:57Speaker 1: Although the living room contained a big, fluffy couch and
- 11:59Speaker 1: some school desks, their father wanted Kevin and Tony to
- 12:03Speaker 1: join him on a piece of cardboard he laid on
- 12:05Speaker 1: the cold linoleum floor. It turned out that since they'd
- 12:08Speaker 1: last seen him, their father's obsession had only intensified.
- 12:13Speaker 5: My dad set some rules. He said that don't ever
- 12:16Speaker 5: touch these dusts or to couch because they're now dirty.
- 12:22Speaker 5: I mean, we weren't going to question him. We didn't
- 12:24Speaker 5: want to get beaten, so we ended up doing exactly that.
- 12:29Speaker 5: A lot of these areas around the entire apartment just
- 12:33Speaker 5: became dirty, untouchable. Over time, A layer of dust accrued
- 12:40Speaker 5: everywhere that we were not allowed.
- 12:43Speaker 3: To touch or walk through.
- 12:52Speaker 5: I got this pen where a little thick pen with
- 12:56Speaker 5: a different colored tabs on the top were change from
- 12:59Speaker 5: black to blue red.
- 13:01Speaker 3: Remember those It was a really it.
- 13:02Speaker 5: Was a prized possession of minds. And I remember my dad,
- 13:08Speaker 5: my brother and I were on our living room floor again,
- 13:12Speaker 5: and my bro was holding the pen and he was
- 13:15Speaker 5: trying to change one of the colors, but it flung
- 13:18Speaker 5: out of his hands and twirled around, and it eventually
- 13:22Speaker 5: settled a few feet away from him in this dirty zone.
- 13:28Speaker 5: And at that moment that happened, as an eight nine
- 13:32Speaker 5: year old, I just knew that my pen was gone,
- 13:35Speaker 5: even though it's literally just three feet away from us.
- 13:38Speaker 5: My bro and I looked at each other. We both
- 13:41Speaker 5: looked at my dad, and my dad just gave us
- 13:43Speaker 5: that kind of solemn shake of his head like I'm sorry, boys,
- 13:47Speaker 5: but that's a terrible loss.
- 13:49Speaker 1: So you would just see the pen sitting there.
- 13:52Speaker 5: Yeah, and then it would be absorbed by the dust.
- 13:55Speaker 5: Over time, it would just become covered with dust itself.
- 14:04Speaker 1: Even when their father wasn't home, Tony and Kevin didn't
- 14:07Speaker 1: dare step into the dirty zone.
- 14:09Speaker 5: I think we were also afraid because if you ventured
- 14:12Speaker 5: into one of dirty area, you would kind of leave
- 14:15Speaker 5: like literal footprints into that dusty area. It would be
- 14:19Speaker 5: pretty obvious. And so I remember one time a policeman
- 14:24Speaker 5: entered our home because there was some kind of robbery
- 14:29Speaker 5: and the cop was trying to find this person. And
- 14:31Speaker 5: I remember his face the moment he stepped in, like
- 14:34Speaker 5: holy crap, Like he was asking me, you guys live here,
- 14:40Speaker 5: and he was trying to search the house and I
- 14:43Speaker 5: was cleading with him. I was like, well, he don't,
- 14:45Speaker 5: don't go over there, don't open that door and be
- 14:47Speaker 5: that side closet was part of the dirty zone and
- 14:50Speaker 5: I didn't want to get in trouble. And thankfully I
- 14:54Speaker 5: remember the cop just acquiesced. When Kevin speaks of that
- 14:59Speaker 5: time in his life, it says an accumulation of losses,
- 15:03Speaker 5: the loss of his brothers and sister, his mom, the
- 15:07Speaker 5: loss of all the rules that made reality reality, which
- 15:11Speaker 5: is why he still remembers the one real gain from
- 15:13Speaker 5: that time.
- 15:15Speaker 1: Friends. Those boys, Jason and Gerald.
- 15:19Speaker 5: They were a white family living with their single mom.
- 15:22Speaker 5: Jason was witty and funny. Jerald was kind of goofy
- 15:26Speaker 5: looking but lovable.
- 15:28Speaker 1: Gerald was Tony's age, Jason was Kevin's. They had video
- 15:32Speaker 1: games and a mom who was nice to them. Every morning,
- 15:35Speaker 1: we will wake up, we go outside, just yell out.
- 15:38Speaker 3: Jason, Gerald, what are you up to?
- 15:40Speaker 5: And he would come back out, groggy eyed, wiping their eyes.
- 15:44Speaker 5: We would just hanging out all the time.
- 15:49Speaker 1: In a life that was filled with significant, often traumatic events.
- 15:53Speaker 1: The time Kevin and his brother spent with Jason and
- 15:56Speaker 1: Gerald was notable for just how unknotable it was. It
- 16:00Speaker 1: was simple and fun. It was time spent just being
- 16:03Speaker 1: a kid, building secret passageways out of cardboard boxes, racing
- 16:07Speaker 1: bugs through obstacle courses, and climbing the highway retention wall
- 16:11Speaker 1: to watch cars speed by. They swam at the public pool.
- 16:15Speaker 1: They played with firecrackers, blowing up snapper bottles in the park.
- 16:19Speaker 1: Then there were the comics Kevin made.
- 16:21Speaker 4: It might have been a smorgas board of different characters
- 16:26Speaker 4: I drew at the time, like one of the teenage
- 16:28Speaker 4: mutant Ninja Turtles, or Batman, or Bart and Garfieud or
- 16:33Speaker 4: all four of them in the same comic.
- 16:34Speaker 3: Who knew?
- 16:36Speaker 5: They offered me a quarter for every comic book I drew.
- 16:39Speaker 3: And gave it to them.
- 16:41Speaker 5: So I did that, and I needed the quarters to
- 16:42Speaker 5: buy myself candy. Hanging out with them was always a
- 16:46Speaker 5: blast for twelve hours a day.
- 16:50Speaker 1: Did you ever have friends like that before?
- 16:52Speaker 3: No? No, And it helped.
- 16:56Speaker 5: It helped soften I brow a nice plite situation live
- 17:01Speaker 5: in with our dad that we could hang out with
- 17:03Speaker 5: Jason Gerald.
- 17:05Speaker 1: Jason and Gerald were the only people with a window
- 17:08Speaker 1: onto Kevin until lives. Quite literally, their apartment window looked
- 17:12Speaker 1: directly in on Kevin and Tony's window.
- 17:15Speaker 5: And I remember one time my bro and I would
- 17:17Speaker 5: take a bath and we didn't have towels, and we
- 17:19Speaker 5: were shivering, and we ran back to our bedroom and
- 17:22Speaker 5: we were trying to put on our clothing, but it's
- 17:25Speaker 5: really hard to put on clothing when your body sweat.
- 17:28Speaker 5: And the next day, Jason Gerrold would come up to
- 17:31Speaker 5: us and say, Hey, why were you and Tony dancing
- 17:33Speaker 5: on your bed naked?
- 17:35Speaker 1: Why didn't you guys have towels.
- 17:37Speaker 3: I don't know.
- 17:38Speaker 5: We just didn't have towels, you know. We didn't have
- 17:41Speaker 5: a lot of things that kids. We didn't have a refrigerator.
- 17:44Speaker 5: That's a wild one. That's hard to imagine, but the
- 17:46Speaker 5: refrigerator would part of the dirty zone.
- 17:49Speaker 1: And the refrigerator worked.
- 17:51Speaker 5: I think it was plugged in. Yeah, we just couldn't
- 17:53Speaker 5: use it. And so whenever we purchased food, we would
- 17:57Speaker 5: have to consume it within that day, including a gallon
- 18:01Speaker 5: of milk. My dad believed in giving us milk, and
- 18:06Speaker 5: I remember my dad thought he had a genius idea.
- 18:10Speaker 5: He didn't want to waste any of the milk, so
- 18:12Speaker 5: he told me and my bro just jogging place outside
- 18:16Speaker 5: so that we would want to drink more milk, and
- 18:19Speaker 5: that Jim bowed very well, and we ended up vomiting
- 18:21Speaker 5: on milk out there. I imagine if Gerald and Jason
- 18:25Speaker 5: had been watching from their window, they'd have seen their
- 18:28Speaker 5: little friends looking like they were in some milk sponsored
- 18:31Speaker 5: version of boot camp. But no matter what unbelievable things
- 18:34Speaker 5: they saw, and no matter what unbelievable things Kevin told
- 18:38Speaker 5: them about off limit refrigerators or pens or couches, they
- 18:42Speaker 5: didn't belittle him, didn't tease him. They accepted him. They
- 18:46Speaker 5: never they never doubted me when I told him these things,
- 18:51Speaker 5: I wholeheartedly believed it.
- 18:53Speaker 1: At a time when Kevin and his brothers felt so
- 18:55Speaker 1: doubtful of their own reality, so isolated, Jason and Gerald
- 19:00Speaker 1: were not only allies, but a check on their sanity.
- 19:03Speaker 1: They were always there until the day they weren't.
- 19:11Speaker 5: Tony and I would go home one day and they
- 19:14Speaker 5: were gone. They were just completely gone. Their home was
- 19:18Speaker 5: cleared out.
- 19:20Speaker 1: Kevin's father said that Jason and Gerald's mom had died,
- 19:23Speaker 1: and so that very same afternoon, the boy's grandparents came
- 19:27Speaker 1: and took Jason and Gerald away to live with them.
- 19:31Speaker 5: Our friendship just suddenly severed. No farewell or anything like that.
- 19:39Speaker 5: We just went from hanging out all the time, being
- 19:43Speaker 5: best buddies to one day just not even seeing them.
- 19:51Speaker 1: People had left Kevin's life before, but Gerald and Jason
- 19:55Speaker 1: didn't leave. They vanished. And when someone vanished in the
- 19:59Speaker 1: early nineteen nineties, they vanished. No cell phones, no emails,
- 20:04Speaker 1: but the boys were always with him. Like in college,
- 20:07Speaker 1: when Kevin's father died, his thoughts turned back to Jason
- 20:11Speaker 1: and Gerald, how they must have felt losing their mom.
- 20:14Speaker 1: Kevin's an adult now with a family and a career
- 20:17Speaker 1: in biotech, Yet any time he's introduced to a Jason
- 20:20Speaker 1: or a Gerald, his mind always leaps back to his Jason,
- 20:24Speaker 1: his Gerald. So now thirty years later, Kevin wants to
- 20:28Speaker 1: find them, the two boys who are the only witnesses
- 20:32Speaker 1: to the hardest part of his and his brother Tony's life.
- 20:36Speaker 5: I've always wondered about them, and what are you up to?
- 20:38Speaker 4: You?
- 20:39Speaker 3: Are you all right? How are they doing? First?
- 20:42Speaker 5: And foremost, did he get over that kind of grief
- 20:45Speaker 5: and loss, because I can't even imagine losing your soul
- 20:50Speaker 5: parent at that age. Because he always referred to themselves
- 20:56Speaker 5: as white trash. They called themselves that he did, yeah,
- 21:00Speaker 5: always in a joking way. But every time I read about, like,
- 21:05Speaker 5: for example, the opioid epidemic where a lot of rural
- 21:11Speaker 5: whites were hammered, sometimes I wonder, are Jason and Gerald Okay?
- 21:24Speaker 1: Do you ever wonder if they think about you as well?
- 21:26Speaker 1: If they think about you and your brother?
- 21:29Speaker 3: I do wonder about that.
- 21:31Speaker 5: Yeah, I do wonder about that, but all that is secondary.
- 21:37Speaker 5: If they're doing all right, I think that'll warm up
- 21:40Speaker 5: my heart pretty well. If they're not doing all right,
- 21:44Speaker 5: I want to see if I can help them out.
- 21:47Speaker 5: You're at the minimum, maybe just say hi that I've
- 21:52Speaker 5: just never forgotten about them, And if they've forgotten about
- 21:58Speaker 5: myself with Tony, you know, that's fine, that's fine. I'd
- 22:04Speaker 5: just be just happy to find out that they're doing
- 22:06Speaker 5: all right with normal friends would probably want right.
- 22:12Speaker 1: The problem is they were always just Jason and Gerald
- 22:15Speaker 1: from across the way. Kevin doesn't know their last name
- 22:19Speaker 1: and their mother's name, has also been lost to time,
- 22:22Speaker 1: and although he does know the brothers went to live
- 22:25Speaker 1: with their grandparents, I.
- 22:26Speaker 5: Don't even know where to grandparents reside, except for one
- 22:31Speaker 5: comment that Jason made a long time ago where he
- 22:33Speaker 5: said that whenever he visits his grandparents, they would burn
- 22:37Speaker 5: pine cones to keep warm.
- 22:40Speaker 1: And that's why Kevin has come to me with just
- 22:43Speaker 1: the names Jason and Gerald, hoping I can.
- 22:46Speaker 5: Help, because I thought that your superpower investigative sleuthing abilities
- 22:53Speaker 5: are going to be able to track them down again.
- 22:58Speaker 1: After the break, my superpower investigative sleuthing abilities are put
- 23:03Speaker 1: to the test. Kevin remembers his own address from back then,
- 23:23Speaker 1: and clicking around on Google Maps, he's able to determine
- 23:26Speaker 1: which house was Jason and Gerald's. But when my producer
- 23:30Speaker 1: Khalila and I start digging, the only records we find
- 23:33Speaker 1: are topsy turvy, dozens of people listed under the same address,
- 23:37Speaker 1: the timelines overlapping and confusing ways, so without much else
- 23:42Speaker 1: to go on, Khalila skims the records, searching for any
- 23:46Speaker 1: single women who lived at Jason and Gerald's apartment number
- 23:49Speaker 1: in the early nineties. Then using the surname she finds
- 23:53Speaker 1: she starts styling.
- 24:00Speaker 3: Hi, is this chasing? Hello?
- 24:03Speaker 1: Is this chas?
- 24:04Speaker 3: You got to watch? You know what to do later? Wow?
- 24:09Speaker 3: I really fell for that voicemail. Hi, my name is
- 24:11Speaker 3: Khalil Holt. I'm looking for a Jason who has named Jerald.
- 24:16Speaker 1: Khalilaphones dozens and dozens of numbers, leaving messages for Jason's
- 24:21Speaker 1: and Geralds across the nation. Many of the numbers she
- 24:25Speaker 1: tries are disconnected entirely.
- 24:27Speaker 3: We're sorry, you have reached the number that.
- 24:29Speaker 2: If we're sorry, you have reached the number that we're sorry.
- 24:32Speaker 1: We're sorry, We're sorry. And while some Geralds and Jason's
- 24:35Speaker 1: do answer the phone.
- 24:37Speaker 3: No, I had a dead mean jail, ma'am.
- 24:40Speaker 1: To raise the technique, They're never the ones who we're
- 24:42Speaker 1: looking for.
- 24:43Speaker 3: Let's you're given away millions of dollars and then I
- 24:45Speaker 3: can make it pino, ma'am, Mom, I'm sorry. I wish
- 24:48Speaker 3: I could help you.
- 24:51Speaker 1: One Jason does helpfully text that there's another guy with
- 24:55Speaker 1: the same name a few towns over. I've spent a
- 24:58Speaker 1: night in jail for a warrant in his name. He writes,
- 25:02Speaker 1: Too bad, your podcast isn't about that. I figure the
- 25:11Speaker 1: local elementary school might have Jason and Gerald's last name
- 25:15Speaker 1: on file, so I give them a call and I'm
- 25:18Speaker 1: put on hold. It might give me a chance to
- 25:21Speaker 1: do a little bit of freestyling while I'm waiting. Jason,
- 25:27Speaker 1: He's got a brother, Gerald, Thanks thankfully. I'm interrupted by
- 25:32Speaker 1: the receptionist. She sends me to the district office.
- 25:36Speaker 2: Visit our website at h tt ps colon forward slash.
- 25:43Speaker 1: Forward slash and all the district office has.
- 25:45Speaker 2: To offer EDU One forward slash.
- 25:49Speaker 1: Is a web address straight out of the mid nineties.
- 25:51Speaker 2: Enrollment hyphen center hyphen tk hyphen.
- 25:58Speaker 1: We search obituaries, thinking we might find one for Jason
- 26:01Speaker 1: and Gerald's mom. We post in neighborhood facebook groups. We
- 26:05Speaker 1: tryphoning neighbors, messaging old classmates, submitting a research request at
- 26:10Speaker 1: the public library. Nothing comes of any of it. After
- 26:19Speaker 1: two months of dead ends, Kevin returns to the housing
- 26:22Speaker 1: project to look for new leads. One of the last
- 26:25Speaker 1: times he went back was to show his wife and
- 26:28Speaker 1: three kids where he grew up, but the kids were
- 26:30Speaker 1: too scared of the neighborhood to get out of the car.
- 26:34Speaker 1: This time he goes alone, and it's while walking by
- 26:37Speaker 1: his old building that Kevin has a realization. For Jason
- 26:41Speaker 1: and Gerald to have seen him and Tony through the
- 26:43Speaker 1: window getting dressed without towels that day, their address would
- 26:47Speaker 1: have to have been not the one he'd originally told me,
- 26:51Speaker 1: but actually one apartment over. And that new fact makes
- 26:55Speaker 1: all the difference. Amazingly, we've been able to triangulate who
- 27:00Speaker 1: these guys are, Who Jason and Gerroalld are really? Yeah,
- 27:04Speaker 1: no way, yes, wow. But just when you mole one
- 27:09Speaker 1: problem in this life, a new problem rears its ugly
- 27:13Speaker 1: mole head. Even though we found Jason and Gerald, we're
- 27:16Speaker 1: not hearing back from Jason and Gerald. After sending both
- 27:20Speaker 1: brothers letters, Gerald bounces back and Jason's goes unanswered. I
- 27:25Speaker 1: try Jason on LinkedIn, but still nothing. Maybe the name
- 27:30Speaker 1: Kevin no longer means anything to them, Maybe they forgot
- 27:33Speaker 1: the friendship altogether. I can't find a phone number for
- 27:40Speaker 1: Gerald or Jason, but I do find one for Jason's wife,
- 27:44Speaker 1: and so I leave her a voicemail. When I get
- 27:47Speaker 1: no response, I try texting. Still no response. So I
- 27:51Speaker 1: call again and this time the phone doesn't even ring.
- 27:55Speaker 1: Fearing my number has been blocked, I ask Kevin to phone,
- 27:59Speaker 1: but when he tries to leave a message.
- 28:01Speaker 3: My name is Kevin. I've been shoudhood friends with Jason
- 28:05Speaker 3: and his brother.
- 28:08Speaker 4: Oh. I couldn't even leave a voicemail.
- 28:12Speaker 1: It's no longer feeling like Jason is simply forgotten. It
- 28:16Speaker 1: feels like he emphatically doesn't want to talk. Although Jason's
- 28:21Speaker 1: a no go, I still have one more shot at
- 28:24Speaker 1: reaching the younger brother Gerald. He has a Facebook, So
- 28:28Speaker 1: this is where I'm thinking, like, maybe the most direct
- 28:31Speaker 1: way to do it would be for you to reach out.
- 28:35Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't mind.
- 28:35Speaker 5: It's just that I don't even have a Facebook account,
- 28:39Speaker 5: but I can definitely make an account, I suppose.
- 28:43Speaker 1: When we check back in the next day, Kevin tells
- 28:46Speaker 1: me that he made a profile and added one single friend, Gerald,
- 28:51Speaker 1: and I.
- 28:51Speaker 5: Just sent him a message, are you to Gerald with
- 28:54Speaker 5: the brother Jason dis It's Kevin with the little bro Tony.
- 28:58Speaker 5: We should live right across Meshuther and we were really
- 29:00Speaker 5: good friends, and he just replied immediately.
- 29:22Speaker 1: It's been an eventful twenty four hours. For the first
- 29:26Speaker 1: time in over thirty years, Kevin and his friend Gerald
- 29:29Speaker 1: are back in touch. The two have been exchanging messages
- 29:32Speaker 1: at a rapid pace since last night.
- 29:35Speaker 5: I'm still digesting all of this real time. Apparently Gerald
- 29:41Speaker 5: is in the East Coast right now. He's been homeless
- 29:44Speaker 5: for three years, but he said that he's got no problems,
- 29:51Speaker 5: been staying out of trouble. He only smokes cigarettes and
- 29:56Speaker 5: sparingly drinks. He stayed away from the hard drugs. Oh
- 30:01Speaker 5: and I wanted to talk to him over the phone
- 30:04Speaker 5: because I'm just I'm a big fan of texting, but
- 30:07Speaker 5: he said that he doesn't have a cell phone. He
- 30:09Speaker 5: lost it while traveling through Maryland. And he only has
- 30:13Speaker 5: asked us to Facebook messenger, brought her Internet while at
- 30:19Speaker 5: the library. So yeah, it's just quite a bit to digest.
- 30:22Speaker 5: Owen he mentioned Jason.
- 30:26Speaker 1: One of the first things Jerald did after hearing from
- 30:28Speaker 1: Kevin was to message Jason. Gerald shared the message he
- 30:32Speaker 1: sent his brother. I can just read it out, He said,
- 30:35Speaker 1: how are you, brother? He won't believe this. Remember Tony
- 30:38Speaker 1: and Kevin when we were living with Mom and Sacramento
- 30:41Speaker 1: as kids. They are reaching out to us to get
- 30:44Speaker 1: to know us again and connect. We are catching up.
- 30:48Speaker 1: It makes me so happy to talk to Kevin. It's crazy.
- 30:56Speaker 1: Jason responded to his brother's message, saying he remembered Kevin
- 31:00Speaker 1: and Tony fondly. It turns out he was well aware
- 31:03Speaker 1: Kevin had been looking for him. He'd gotten all those
- 31:05Speaker 1: messages left for his wife, but he didn't want to
- 31:08Speaker 1: revisit that time. In the months to come, Kevin keeps
- 31:15Speaker 1: the messenger app on his phone so he and his
- 31:17Speaker 1: one Facebook friend can send long messages back and forth,
- 31:21Speaker 1: and eventually, five months.
- 31:23Speaker 3: Later, hey your old Hey Kevin did.
- 31:27Speaker 1: Gerald gets a new phone and a conversation is arranged.
- 31:31Speaker 3: The last time we've ever heard each other. We were
- 31:34Speaker 3: just kids, also, thirty four years ago. I remember exactly
- 31:39Speaker 3: how you look when you were a kid. You were
- 31:41Speaker 3: slightly taller than me, with black hair. You had a freckle.
- 31:45Speaker 3: I think you had a freckle under your left eye.
- 31:48Speaker 3: Yeah I do. I'm actually looking at you right now.
- 31:52Speaker 3: It through my mind's eye. Remember when we hung out
- 31:55Speaker 3: at your place? Oh, my gosh. Yeah, all we do
- 31:58Speaker 3: is play video games. I remember you and Tony were
- 32:01Speaker 3: so good at playing video games. Oh. I would watch
- 32:05Speaker 3: you guys for hours. One time we had this game Rygar,
- 32:09Speaker 3: remember that's right, yea, And for like four or five
- 32:13Speaker 3: hours you played it. And you ended up beating it,
- 32:16Speaker 3: and my jaw was just floored, you know.
- 32:19Speaker 4: Why though we didn't have anything else to do, Me
- 32:23Speaker 4: and Tony literally we were just in that place in
- 32:27Speaker 4: the at home and we didn't have anything.
- 32:31Speaker 3: Oh we knew that too. I remember you guys came
- 32:40Speaker 3: over once, right. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy because I actually
- 32:45Speaker 3: still remembered the inside of your house. You remember, like,
- 32:48Speaker 3: did it look crazy?
- 32:50Speaker 6: It looked like it looked like conted house because I
- 32:55Speaker 6: remember it was dusty, like not necessarily not necessarily unclean.
- 33:02Speaker 3: Unclean's not the work, but it was like nobody lived there.
- 33:05Speaker 3: You remember the backyard that we hung out. I had
- 33:07Speaker 3: the closed lines. Yeah, we'd swing on them.
- 33:10Speaker 5: Yeah they're gone. Yeah, I guess every unit has a
- 33:13Speaker 5: dryer now.
- 33:14Speaker 4: Wow, And everything seemed a whole lot smaller.
- 33:19Speaker 3: It just surprised me. She get it.
- 33:21Speaker 5: I just thought everything was way bigger. But I think
- 33:24Speaker 5: we were just so small.
- 33:31Speaker 3: You know, growing up with you, I always thought that
- 33:34Speaker 3: you would have become like a comic book artist, like
- 33:37Speaker 3: a professional one. I mean I would pay you a
- 33:41Speaker 3: quarter apiece for them because I like them so much.
- 33:45Speaker 5: Remember how you would always bug me about what's the
- 33:47Speaker 5: next issue coming out?
- 33:48Speaker 3: When the next issue? Yeah, yes, Oh my gosh, you
- 33:52Speaker 3: have no idea. They were so good. They were so
- 33:54Speaker 3: so good.
- 33:56Speaker 1: All these decades later, Gerald still remembers the specific Bart
- 34:00Speaker 1: Simpson plotlines.
- 34:01Speaker 3: There was an electrical monster that bartman would you'd make them. Oh,
- 34:06Speaker 3: I just unlocked the old memory. I hadn't thought about.
- 34:10Speaker 3: You would use your old tests and papers from school,
- 34:15Speaker 3: and you'd pull them in a way where the backside
- 34:17Speaker 3: would be the comic book, and I could unfold them
- 34:20Speaker 3: and i'd see your work for school. I didn't realize that.
- 34:25Speaker 5: Yeah, but that would make sense because I wouldn't have
- 34:28Speaker 5: assets of paper anyways.
- 34:32Speaker 3: And I held onto those for like fifteen years.
- 34:35Speaker 1: It turns out Gerald was out there looking back just
- 34:39Speaker 1: as much as Kevin was.
- 34:41Speaker 3: I always thought of you too. Making friends with you,
- 34:44Speaker 3: guys was just a big breath of fresh air. I mean,
- 34:47Speaker 3: at school, I was never able to make real friends.
- 34:51Speaker 3: A lot of the kids were actually really meant. I
- 34:53Speaker 3: got beat up a lot. But I had Kevin Tony
- 34:58Speaker 3: right across from me. I mean those were my friends.
- 35:01Speaker 3: Those are the only two friends I actually had growing up.
- 35:05Speaker 3: I really really never made that kind of connection again.
- 35:15Speaker 3: How you doing, man. Oh, I'm okay, I'm okay, I'm
- 35:19Speaker 3: happy in life isn't really what I thought it would be,
- 35:23Speaker 3: what it turned out to be, but it turned out okay,
- 35:25Speaker 3: and I am myself and I'm happy. It's not like
- 35:28Speaker 3: I'm living a life where I wake up and go
- 35:31Speaker 3: to work and realize I'm unhappy, but just do the
- 35:34Speaker 3: same thing every other day. I'm kind of just free
- 35:38Speaker 3: and by myself. Now, you seem to be doing pretty resiliently.
- 35:45Speaker 3: That's the word resilient. Really. When you first become homeless,
- 35:49Speaker 3: it's scary, you know, but it's kind of an adapt
- 35:52Speaker 3: or die kind of scenario. And one thing I found
- 35:56Speaker 3: out about being homeless is it's a bit easier if
- 36:01Speaker 3: you can blend in with other homeless people. If you
- 36:04Speaker 3: can find an area that has resources and other homeless people,
- 36:08Speaker 3: you're more were likely to survive better and not be
- 36:12Speaker 3: a target because it's pretty dangerous being homeless. People don't
- 36:15Speaker 3: like homeless people.
- 36:17Speaker 1: Did you find yourself targeted?
- 36:19Speaker 3: Yes, a lot. I've gotten beat up a few times,
- 36:25Speaker 3: but I've also been helped too. I've had a lot
- 36:28Speaker 3: of Christians help me, which is something amazing. A lot
- 36:32Speaker 3: of people helped me on my way. Good people.
- 36:36Speaker 1: Gerald had been living beneath an underpass in DC for
- 36:38Speaker 1: about a year, but a few months ago he decided
- 36:41Speaker 1: to return home to California.
- 36:44Speaker 3: I'd gotten to a point where I had no contact
- 36:47Speaker 3: with my kids, and I missed them, and I just
- 36:51Speaker 3: needed to see them. And I knew if I if
- 36:53Speaker 3: I stay gone, if I'm just out there in the world,
- 36:56Speaker 3: I'll never have a relationship with my kids if I
- 36:59Speaker 3: don't come back. Now. I need to see my boys.
- 37:02Speaker 3: I need to tell them I love them. The strange
- 37:07Speaker 3: thing is the very day that they initiated the sweeping
- 37:13Speaker 3: of the homeless and DC was today. I had a
- 37:17Speaker 3: bus ticket to come back to California, so I was
- 37:19Speaker 3: getting on a bus right when the troops were coming
- 37:22Speaker 3: into DC. Like the day.
- 37:25Speaker 1: Gerald explains he'd started going to church with another friend
- 37:28Speaker 1: who was homeless, and that the church helped him scramble
- 37:31Speaker 1: together enough money for a ticket back home to his kids.
- 37:35Speaker 3: And I'm grateful that I was able to leave, because
- 37:37Speaker 3: I don't know what happened to all the homeless people.
- 37:39Speaker 3: There were hundreds of homeless people when I was in DC,
- 37:42Speaker 3: all in that area, and they were all dealing with
- 37:45Speaker 3: the same thing. It was very sad to see some
- 37:48Speaker 3: were genuinely crazy, some were playing the system, and others
- 37:53Speaker 3: were just emotionally distraught. Something happened in their family, like
- 37:56Speaker 3: a kid died, and they just couldn't pull themselves out.
- 38:00Speaker 1: Can you say, like, what led you into that situation?
- 38:06Speaker 3: Yeah, heartbreak and lack of My wife left me about
- 38:12Speaker 3: four years ago now, and honestly, it just got to
- 38:17Speaker 3: a point where I realized that if I didn't actually
- 38:22Speaker 3: go away for a while, that her heart can't mend,
- 38:26Speaker 3: where she couldn't grow and become herself. So I needed
- 38:30Speaker 3: to just leave the whole area, and I needed to
- 38:33Speaker 3: do something for myself. I needed to go see the world.
- 38:36Speaker 3: I needed to go walk.
- 38:39Speaker 1: Is that how you traveled? By walking?
- 38:42Speaker 3: Mostly? Yeah?
- 38:43Speaker 1: From state to state.
- 38:45Speaker 3: Yeah. Well I would get rides. Of course, I wouldn't hitchhike,
- 38:49Speaker 3: I wouldn't put my thumb out, but I would walk
- 38:52Speaker 3: and eventually somebody would pull over and ask me if
- 38:56Speaker 3: I needed a ride.
- 38:58Speaker 1: Gerald tells me that after his wife left him, he
- 39:01Speaker 1: was living in his truck, but when he decided to
- 39:03Speaker 1: leave California, he swapped cars with a friend.
- 39:07Speaker 3: I traded him straight up for his Gelope car. For
- 39:11Speaker 3: my nice Toyota truck. I couldn't find work. I couldn't
- 39:14Speaker 3: find a job, I couldn't find money for my gas tank.
- 39:17Speaker 3: So I could either leave my truck on the side
- 39:21Speaker 3: of the road and have it impounded and lost, or
- 39:24Speaker 3: I could give it away somebody I love and try
- 39:27Speaker 3: to find my way on foot. So I chose to
- 39:32Speaker 3: give it to my friend Josh, and I drove his
- 39:37Speaker 3: car up through the Sierra Nevadas into Nevada, and then
- 39:41Speaker 3: when it ran out of gas, I just started walking.
- 39:44Speaker 1: For the next several years, Gerald traveled all over the country.
- 39:48Speaker 1: From Nevada, he went to Kansas, then Oregon, Alaska, Tennessee,
- 39:53Speaker 1: and eventually Washington, DC. And now he's back in California,
- 39:58Speaker 1: spending most of his time camping.
- 40:00Speaker 3: So I'm just sitting up on a mountain right now,
- 40:01Speaker 3: looking down at a river. Honestly, even being back here
- 40:05Speaker 3: in California, I kind of realized that I may end
- 40:10Speaker 3: up staying homeless. I don't have a lot of options,
- 40:14Speaker 3: but I realize I'm just happier being halfway out of
- 40:17Speaker 3: the system, or one foot in, one foot out. I
- 40:20Speaker 3: guess I'm more comfortable just being alone in the crowd
- 40:24Speaker 3: of people. So like being up here in the mountains
- 40:27Speaker 3: where I'm at right now, it's just wonderful. I mean
- 40:30Speaker 3: there's nobody around, nobody.
- 40:33Speaker 1: Gerald looks after his kids a few days every week,
- 40:36Speaker 1: staying at his ex wife's house. It's a relief to
- 40:39Speaker 1: see them again, his two boys, seven and thirteen.
- 40:43Speaker 3: And they're fine. And they missed me.
- 40:46Speaker 4: I would think that they would miss he. I mean,
- 40:49Speaker 4: you can't. Yeah, you can't ever replace the.
- 40:52Speaker 1: Parent, something both Kevin and Gerald know all too well.
- 40:57Speaker 4: I just remember taking that news that your mom had
- 41:03Speaker 4: passed and that you two just gone, that were coming back,
- 41:09Speaker 4: and Tony and I we were both.
- 41:12Speaker 5: And we cried. We were heartbroken. We lost our two
- 41:18Speaker 5: best friends. They didn't even get to say goodbye.
- 41:23Speaker 3: It was so suddenly, oh in one day. Yeah, yeah,
- 41:27Speaker 3: And we were always wondering what happened? Do your mom?
- 41:31Speaker 3: Do you two? I could tell you the story from
- 41:35Speaker 3: the start.
- 41:37Speaker 1: As a kid, making sense of what happened, Kevin assumed
- 41:41Speaker 1: maybe Jason and Gerald's mom had a heart attack, but
- 41:44Speaker 1: Gerald says no, that his mom had a heroin addiction.
- 41:47Speaker 3: When I was like six. It came across a leather
- 41:51Speaker 3: glove with a needle inside the couch. When I pulled
- 41:55Speaker 3: up the couch cushion and I brought it to my
- 41:58Speaker 3: mom and said, Mommy, what's this And she slapped my
- 42:02Speaker 3: hand and took it from me, and she said, never
- 42:04Speaker 3: touch that again. Don't dig in there. Okay, that's Mom's
- 42:08Speaker 3: that poke you and hurt you. So I knew. I
- 42:12Speaker 3: knew about it, but I didn't know what it was exactly.
- 42:16Speaker 3: And my mom would she sleep a lot, a lot
- 42:20Speaker 3: most of the time. She'd just sleep on the couch downstairs.
- 42:23Speaker 3: But when she was awake, she was a very good mom.
- 42:25Speaker 3: She always cooked for me and Jason, and we always
- 42:28Speaker 3: had food. She was always looking for us. We're out
- 42:31Speaker 3: too late. She didn't let nobody mess with us. My
- 42:36Speaker 3: mom was good mom. Yeah, that's what I remember.
- 42:50Speaker 1: The night his mom died, Gerald remembers hearing a thud upstairs,
- 42:54Speaker 1: but he didn't think much of it. He and Jason
- 42:56Speaker 1: were busy watching The Simpsons at the time, and not
- 42:59Speaker 1: long after that they went to bed.
- 43:02Speaker 3: So I went and crawled into bed, and Jason crawled
- 43:04Speaker 3: into his bed and he went to sleep, and I
- 43:06Speaker 3: was lying there and I'm like to see what I
- 43:10Speaker 3: can go curl up to the mom in her bed.
- 43:12Speaker 3: So I got up and I went to my mom's
- 43:14Speaker 3: room and I opened the door, and she was laying
- 43:17Speaker 3: face down on the ground, not moving. But I had
- 43:21Speaker 3: seen that before, so I didn't think a lot. I
- 43:25Speaker 3: didn't know anything was wrong. I was like seven sixth
- 43:29Speaker 3: somewhere in there. So I slowly closed the door, really
- 43:33Speaker 3: slowly because I didn't want to wake her up. And
- 43:36Speaker 3: in the morning, me and my brother got ourselves ready
- 43:40Speaker 3: for school and we walked to school. And while I
- 43:44Speaker 3: was at school, at about one o'clock in the afternoon,
- 43:49Speaker 3: some cops came to my classroom. I thought I was
- 43:52Speaker 3: in trouble because I hadn't been doing good in school.
- 43:56Speaker 3: I thought it was about my grades, actually, And then
- 43:58Speaker 3: the cops brought me back to the house. And apparently
- 44:02Speaker 3: my brother had come home from school early because he
- 44:07Speaker 3: was feeling sick, and he found my mom face down
- 44:11Speaker 3: on the ground and couldn't wake her up. So he
- 44:14Speaker 3: went to a neighbor, Lloyd and Cheryl. They lived up
- 44:19Speaker 3: the block, and Lloyd came down and checked her pulse
- 44:22Speaker 3: and looked at my brother and said she's dead, and
- 44:32Speaker 3: I didn't even realize she was dead. I didn't know
- 44:35Speaker 3: even when the cops brought me into the house and
- 44:38Speaker 3: the house was filled with cops and my grandparents are there,
- 44:43Speaker 3: nobody's told me what's happened. So I'm just looking at
- 44:47Speaker 3: everybody and I'm wondering where Mama is. And then a
- 44:53Speaker 3: cop comes up to me and says, we're going to
- 44:56Speaker 3: take you to Burger King and get you something to eat.
- 45:00Speaker 3: So a cop actually took me and my brother to
- 45:03Speaker 3: Burger King in his cop car and bought us lunch.
- 45:09Speaker 3: And I still didn't know what was going on. So
- 45:11Speaker 3: I'm just gabbing to the cop, like my very young
- 45:15Speaker 3: seven year old self, just talking, talking, talking, like nothing's wrong.
- 45:20Speaker 3: I remember asking the cop did he ever shoot anybody?
- 45:23Speaker 3: He said, yeah, she's the bad people when he has to,
- 45:26Speaker 3: and he had a shotgun that was mounted along closer
- 45:29Speaker 3: to the dash, and I thought it was so cool.
- 45:32Speaker 3: And my brother didn't say a word, and the cop
- 45:35Speaker 3: starts crying. Then he brought us back, and nobody's talking
- 45:42Speaker 3: to me at all. I'm like an insect on a
- 45:45Speaker 3: wall or a fly, like I just don't know. And
- 45:49Speaker 3: so my grandparents tell us Okay, we got to go
- 45:52Speaker 3: get inside the car. Grandpa has some things he has
- 45:55Speaker 3: to do, so we're going to take you to Aunt
- 45:57Speaker 3: Elizabeth's house for right now, for a few days. So
- 46:01Speaker 3: I got happy because I got to see my cousin Brian,
- 46:05Speaker 3: who was about my age and like I loved him.
- 46:09Speaker 3: And when I get there, my cousin Brian, he knows
- 46:12Speaker 3: what's going on, what happened, and he looks at me
- 46:16Speaker 3: and he says, Gerald, I want you to sleep in
- 46:18Speaker 3: my bed. You kick my bed, I'll sleep on the floor.
- 46:21Speaker 3: And I said you don't have to do that, and
- 46:24Speaker 3: he said, no, you can just take it, okay, And
- 46:26Speaker 3: I could see who was sad. And then I sat
- 46:29Speaker 3: down on the bed and that's when it hit me.
- 46:34Speaker 3: That's when I realized that Mom had died. And I
- 46:42Speaker 3: started crying and crying, and I cried for hours and hours,
- 46:49Speaker 3: and I cried myself to sleep. After all that, my
- 47:01Speaker 3: brother ended up becoming really quiet. He never really talked
- 47:04Speaker 3: to me very much after that. And I don't know,
- 47:14Speaker 3: it just seems like the world got a lot colder
- 47:16Speaker 3: after that.
- 47:23Speaker 1: Jason and Gerald spent the rest of their childhood with
- 47:26Speaker 1: their maternal grandparents, living in the mountains. I asked Gerald
- 47:30Speaker 1: if they ever had any contact with their dad.
- 47:33Speaker 3: No, he died before I was born.
- 47:35Speaker 1: Oh, I see, I'm sorry.
- 47:37Speaker 3: It's okay. I never knew him, so there's no effect,
- 47:40Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, but I do know a story my
- 47:44Speaker 3: dad right before he died, he asked my grandfather for
- 47:50Speaker 3: five hundred dollars because he needed to buy a car
- 47:53Speaker 3: so that he could go get this job. And my
- 47:57Speaker 3: grandfather didn't believe him, so he said no. And then
- 48:03Speaker 3: the next day, apparently a neighbor had come across my
- 48:09Speaker 3: father's hanging body from a tree and called my grandfather,
- 48:14Speaker 3: and my grandfather cut him down and looked at his
- 48:18Speaker 3: body on the ground and said, what a waste.
- 48:22Speaker 1: This is the same grandfather who about seven years later
- 48:25Speaker 1: would become Gerald's guardian. Gerald says he could be strict,
- 48:30Speaker 1: he had.
- 48:30Speaker 3: A military attitude, and he was really a gruff on
- 48:33Speaker 3: me and Jason, just you not Jason so much. Well,
- 48:37Speaker 3: Jason was more like my grandfather than I was. Jason
- 48:41Speaker 3: went into the military. He did very good. He was
- 48:43Speaker 3: in for about eight eight years and went to Iraq
- 48:48Speaker 3: twice and he did really well. Wow.
- 48:52Speaker 1: Jason now lives in Arizona, where he works in security.
- 48:55Speaker 1: Kevin's happy to hear that his life seems stable, but
- 48:58Speaker 1: Gerald and Jason's relationship never recovered from the death of
- 49:01Speaker 1: their mom. In contrast, Kevin and Tony have remained close.
- 49:06Speaker 1: That Jason and Gerald haven't is hard for Kevin to hear.
- 49:10Speaker 4: I hope that you can at least maintain a little
- 49:13Speaker 4: bit contact with Jason here and there.
- 49:15Speaker 3: Yeah, it's body, but it is. It just is what
- 49:19Speaker 3: it is. Some people. They everybody's different. We all have
- 49:25Speaker 3: our own special abilities. We all, you know, are good,
- 49:28Speaker 3: our own good things. One thing my brother isn't so
- 49:31Speaker 3: good at is dealing with the past memory of my
- 49:34Speaker 3: mom's death. He kind of locked it away, I feel.
- 49:41Speaker 3: But it's it's his memories to keep, you know. And
- 49:44Speaker 3: he doesn't want to dig him back up. And I
- 49:46Speaker 3: think that's the big thing.
- 49:49Speaker 4: If you ever see him again or communicate with him again,
- 49:54Speaker 4: I can't.
- 49:55Speaker 3: Let him know that, Yeah, I never I never never
- 50:02Speaker 3: forgot about Yeah.
- 50:06Speaker 4: He's all right, you didn't want to talk about it.
- 50:09Speaker 3: I just want to let him know that, Yeah, Tony
- 50:13Speaker 3: and I.
- 50:13Speaker 4: Were real sad and I never forgot about him.
- 50:19Speaker 3: I'll tell him. I'll tell him.
- 50:27Speaker 1: Gerald says he was just never like his brother and
- 50:30Speaker 1: grandfather me.
- 50:31Speaker 3: I was the complete opposite. I was kind of more
- 50:34Speaker 3: like the free bird, the hippie. I guess got into skateboarding.
- 50:39Speaker 3: I always wanted to start a skateboarding company and design
- 50:43Speaker 3: my own decks, do artwork through that. That's actually what
- 50:46Speaker 3: I really wanted to do in life. But I kind
- 50:48Speaker 3: of put it on a shelf just because of how
- 50:50Speaker 3: everything turned out in life.
- 50:53Speaker 1: But he says he did givet skateboards to each of
- 50:56Speaker 1: his sons, and now when his younger son goes out
- 50:59Speaker 1: to ride his bike, Gerald will use one of the
- 51:01Speaker 1: boards to skate alongside him.
- 51:06Speaker 3: Honestly, I don't know what it really is to be
- 51:10Speaker 3: a proper dad. I never had a dad. I had
- 51:13Speaker 3: a grandpa who was kind of a dad, and I
- 51:16Speaker 3: learned some from him, But to be a dad is
- 51:19Speaker 3: something I gotta learn as I go along. I guess
- 51:24Speaker 3: that's my biggest journey now. It's just to stay home,
- 51:27Speaker 3: stay in my area, and watch my kids grow. That's
- 51:32Speaker 3: what I want to do.
- 51:33Speaker 1: Did do you think you're going to stick around?
- 51:36Speaker 3: Yes? I'm done traveling now.
- 51:40Speaker 1: So it feels like it's the end. Of something or
- 51:43Speaker 1: the beginning of something new.
- 51:46Speaker 3: When one thing ins, something else begins. I'm forty one
- 51:50Speaker 3: and just means I have half my life to live. Still.
- 52:01Speaker 3: After my mom died, nobody in the family would talk
- 52:04Speaker 3: about it. It was like my old past life and
- 52:07Speaker 3: Sacramento had any raised. So having connected with Kevin is
- 52:13Speaker 3: it's like validation that I did have a life for
- 52:18Speaker 3: my mother died. Like I'm not the only one that
- 52:21Speaker 3: remembers my mom. Yeah.
- 52:24Speaker 5: Likewise, Gerald means something to me too. That I wasn't
- 52:30Speaker 5: too crazy thinking about my shild is so much like
- 52:34Speaker 5: someone else was thinking about it as well.
- 52:39Speaker 3: That actually happens. Yeah, yeah, it actually happens. It's nice
- 52:47Speaker 3: to know I'm not invisible.
- 52:53Speaker 4: I'll see you in a bit. We got to Casha.
- 52:57Speaker 4: I'll make a visit up there.
- 52:59Speaker 3: Yes, you will have to come up.
- 53:00Speaker 4: Yeah, I've never been to that area before, so that
- 53:05Speaker 4: it'll be a place. Yeah, it looks like it.
- 53:08Speaker 3: You will love it, I promised Vin. I'm sure i will. Okay,
- 53:13Speaker 3: all right, Bye bye bye, Joe.
- 53:23Speaker 1: Kevin and I stay on the line to talk about
- 53:25Speaker 1: everything Gerald shared. We harkened back to what he said
- 53:29Speaker 1: about not knowing how to be a dad, And I
- 53:31Speaker 1: asked Kevin how he learned to be a dad. A
- 53:35Speaker 1: lot of it, he says, comes from his partner, but
- 53:37Speaker 1: also he tried to define himself in opposition to his
- 53:40Speaker 1: own dad.
- 53:42Speaker 5: I didn't want to be feared. I wanted my kid
- 53:46Speaker 5: to be able to trust me. I wanted to be
- 53:48Speaker 5: warm and open to them and good time with them.
- 53:54Speaker 4: Yeah.
- 53:55Speaker 5: I guess I just wanted to do everything to opposite
- 53:58Speaker 5: what my own dad did.
- 54:00Speaker 3: And I know I didn't walk away.
- 54:03Speaker 4: I'm scathed, both me and my bro probably with my
- 54:09Speaker 4: entire family. I feel like sometimes I sort of like
- 54:15Speaker 4: PTSD almost.
- 54:18Speaker 1: Kevin tells me how when his kids joined Cub Scouts,
- 54:20Speaker 1: he volunteered to be an assistant scout master. He had
- 54:24Speaker 1: to go away on this weekend camping trip to be trained.
- 54:27Speaker 1: When he got back home, he pulled into the garage.
- 54:30Speaker 1: Everything in the house was quiet.
- 54:33Speaker 4: I remember unloading the car and calling for my kids
- 54:36Speaker 4: because I thought that it could help me set up
- 54:41Speaker 4: the tent in the backyard to let the tet properly
- 54:43Speaker 4: dry and all that.
- 54:44Speaker 3: But there were no response.
- 54:48Speaker 4: Noticed that they were like in the living room or
- 54:51Speaker 4: something like that, playing board games. It kind of nodded
- 54:57Speaker 4: at me like, oh, that us home, and I just
- 55:03Speaker 4: remember feeling like like immense we overwhelmed with sadness. I
- 55:16Speaker 4: just remember sitting down in another room on the couch,
- 55:23Speaker 4: just being super removed and even wondering about why I
- 55:28Speaker 4: was feeling that emotion, and it took me a It
- 55:35Speaker 4: took me a little wild.
- 55:36Speaker 3: It processed like why this black cloud was.
- 55:39Speaker 4: Just just hanging around me? And I guess ultimately what's
- 55:49Speaker 4: going through my mind was I felt like like my
- 55:55Speaker 4: family didn't really want me, and maybe I was envisioning
- 56:02Speaker 4: that that it would miss me and it would greet me,
- 56:06Speaker 4: and but because they didn't, I got that sensation dad,
- 56:15Speaker 4: like I wasn't wanted. And I didn't even know how
- 56:21Speaker 4: I was processing it, but it reminded me of that
- 56:26Speaker 4: time where like how my mom would draw my name
- 56:33Speaker 4: bring a paper bag. She chose me as the first
- 56:39Speaker 4: kid that she didn't want, and.
- 56:49Speaker 3: I didn't to go yeah yeah, and I thought about
- 57:04Speaker 3: how but coming home to my dad and looking at
- 57:12Speaker 3: me like.
- 57:16Speaker 4: Like he wished he had my older brother come home
- 57:19Speaker 4: instead of me, And that was a feeling I got
- 57:24Speaker 4: when I just got home from that camping trip, like
- 57:32Speaker 4: nobody wanted me. Yeah, yeah, it was this a terrible feeling.
- 57:44Speaker 4: I remember my uh my partner. She came back out
- 57:48Speaker 4: and she saw me, and I didn't know how to
- 57:52Speaker 4: explain it to her, but the guy just told her
- 57:59Speaker 4: I wasn't feeling well.
- 58:01Speaker 3: And then.
- 58:04Speaker 4: Be my family in the herd room and be normal
- 58:09Speaker 4: well again and say hey, what's everyone doing the game
- 58:12Speaker 4: when you guys playing?
- 58:17Speaker 3: And life was just carry on.
- 58:29Speaker 1: This weekend, Kevin is planning on driving out to the
- 58:32Speaker 1: mountains to see Gerald to go camping and fishing. Gerald says,
- 58:36Speaker 1: the fish are jumping. It's the beginning of something new.
- 58:42Speaker 1: Life carries on.
- 58:46Speaker 7: H now that the Fernitures returning to its goodwill home,
- 59:36Speaker 7: now that the last month's rent is scheming with the
- 59:41Speaker 7: damage to possit, take this moment to deserve.
- 59:47Speaker 1: If we meant it, if we talked.
- 59:51Speaker 7: We were felt around for five to.
- 59:56Speaker 3: From things that accidentally talk.
- 1:00:03Speaker 1: This episode of Heavyweight was produced by Khalila Holt and
- 1:00:06Speaker 1: me Jonathan Goldstein, along with Phoebe Flanagain. Our supervising producer
- 1:00:10Speaker 1: is Stevie Lane. Editorial guidance from Emily Condon. Special thanks
- 1:00:14Speaker 1: to Chris Neary Gretacone, Jake Harper, Lydia, Jane Kott, and
- 1:00:18Speaker 1: Kevin's brother Tony Emmamonger mixed the episode with original music
- 1:00:22Speaker 1: by Christine Fellows, John K. Sampson, and Bobby Lord. Additional
- 1:00:25Speaker 1: scoring by Blue Dot Sessions and Poddington Bear. Our theme
- 1:00:29Speaker 1: song is by The Weaker Thands, courtesy of Epitaph Records.
- 1:00:32Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram at Heavyweight Podcast, or email us
- 1:00:35Speaker 1: at Heavyweight at Pushkin dot Fm. We're taking a break
- 1:00:39Speaker 1: for American Thanksgiving, but we'll be back in December with
- 1:00:42Speaker 1: two more episodes of Heavyweight. Until that time, Happy American
- 1:00:47Speaker 1: toy Kie Day, Gobble gobbled to you, and yours a
- 1:00:52Speaker 1: wazer we repainted