Latest / Aesthetics Unscripted / Salmon Sperm Skincare — Is PDRN Actually What It Claims to Be?

Transcript

Salmon Sperm Skincare — Is PDRN Actually What It Claims to Be? · Aesthetics Unscripted

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Aesthetics Unscripted.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host and regenerative skin expert, Kim Lidotti.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: We have a lot to unpack today.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about salmon sperm, salmon spunk, PDRN.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so proud and honored to have my co-host be with me today, Will Love, as I always call him, and he's going to explain why.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, Will, can you please introduce yourself in full and describe all of these many wonderful hats that you wear?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: So my real name is Will Lociavo, but people call me Will Love because I worked in top 40 radio for almost 10 years as Will Love.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I host the Will Love Listen podcast on iHeartRadio and anywhere you could get your podcasts.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also the entertainment editor of Out in Jersey magazine.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: And inadvertently, because of that, I do a lot of influencer work on my Instagram at Will Love Inc., that's Will Lovein C.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the deal.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm obsessed with aesthetics, and that's how I met Kim.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm doing a whole Soma Cell makeover right now, among other things.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, I'm honored and just so pleased to have you here today because both we've both been very interested in this subject.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um, when I first started doing a deep dive into PDRN versus PDN, what did all this mean?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I started seeing a lot of the hijinks that were going hand in hand, even though it was a brand new product, all these hijinks, all this smoke and mirrors, all this nonsense that was happening, I was like, whoa, we need to talk about this, and we need to talk about it in depth.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: So for our viewers today, I don't want to make any mistakes or any misquotes.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be referencing my own notes quite often and just keeping it real and keeping it right down to the actual factual and the science.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I welcome all of your questions because, again, we're both interested in anything that's anti-aging.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we're both interested in longevity.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we're both interested in looping that in with your beauty.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: We want to age gracefully and strongly and beautifully and make it all happen together.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: So is this worth it or not?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: The episode today is not all PDRN is created equal.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking specifically in the beginning about a company called Vamp.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: And what caught my eye is Vamp Advanced.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: The company had just blitzed the US with a major marketing.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've seen so much about them.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen so many MetSpaws are getting that right now.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's being marketed as the holy grail of PDRN.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I was like, we need to deep dive and unpack all of this because Vamp just came out.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, I was like, why is there already Vamp advanced?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they supposedly set a new standard for medical grade PDRN.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: However, like I said, why is there a new one out already?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Why is there advanced, um, why are they being called the holy grail?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Is this all bullshit?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Let's find out.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, to start, uh, we're gonna talk about VAMP's advanced claims.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And the first thing I can tell you that alarmed me right away was when I went on their website and I was reading their um their medical grade studies and whatnot.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: I had some questions.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I contacted the company directly.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And on their website, and I tried this numerous times over the course of many days, their website contact me form was not working.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: It will not respond.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: It won't kick over to a contact form.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: You click it, and then like nothing happens.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: So there's also a text me.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I texted the phone number and I was just like, hey, professional provider, very interested.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: I have a few questions.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Can you please get back to me?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Zero response.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, show you the text.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: I did not delete it.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's on my phone where it went out to their official phone number uh by their directive.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: I got no response back.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that bothers me.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's the first problem that I feel that we have.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's reminiscent of when I contacted Alma Lasers with some questions and emails, et cetera.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Zero, no reply, nothing.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's so alarming, right?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because as a reporter, you're interested in those answers, but also as a as a patient, like we want to get these things.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're expecting it.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: And also, if you're trying to like, if you believe in a product and you're trying to promote it, wouldn't you get back?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like I always find that to be shady.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: So what is And I know you have your own opinion on Alma too.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, everybody's got a thing, whether it's good, bad, or ugly.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we love to unpack them in these episodes at aesthetics unscripted.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: So um, as you could see, polo deoxyribonucleotide needs to be longer.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually what PDRN is.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: And not all PDNs are PDRNs.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a problem right there because they are two very specific um molecules.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: The science can go right over my head because I'm not a scientist, but when you actually just simply search it online, you will see the difference.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: If you just have to search PDN versus PDRN, are they the same?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: And you're gonna get this huge response of no, they're not always the same thing, and this is why.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a fantastic way to kill a raining day, or anytime that anybody's really, really curious about going really deeply into the actual science and like the way the molecules differ.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk on layman's terms instead.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um, some of the alarming things with VAMP to me was the product launched in February 2025, and then right away in March of 2026, we've come out with advanced.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: My first question as a patient, a potential patient, is if you're so great, why do you already have advanced?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: So when I looked at the formulations, it's very interesting that what they're called, uh what they're calling medical gradient and patent pending for topical sterile biorevitalizing solution is that these the new advanced has uh to quote 11 ingredients of vitamins, 23 amino acids, six minerals, HA hyalinic acid, and PDRN at five milligrams per milliliter.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: So advanced has a host of peptides and antioxidants, all these ingredients that are known, they're proven to be able to help with anti-aging, with skin health and longevity.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you're bombarding your same level of PDRN.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: My question with that is is it just marketing?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because when we talk about vitamins, it's the same thing with IV drips.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we could get vitamins in multiple forms.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: What about why isn't there a higher level of the quote salmon sperm?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: As opposed to it just being, to me, it seems like uh buzzwords and fillers, honestly.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you're good, you're waving a lot of smoke and mirrors in a very expensive marketing campaign to be able to get your face and your name out in front of a lot of the general public and to providers as well, but you're not actually, you haven't changed your percentages, you haven't created a better form of PDRN.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: You've just put in a bunch of proven ingredients into the same old PDRN you were just selling a few months ago and calling it advanced.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, now all of a sudden that means your PDRN is not that good.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so this became just marketing.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: They're also explicitly positioning this for use after microneedling and raised laser resurfacing for more rapid recovery.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I can tell you also after deeper chemical pills, when you use a biologic product, whether it is an A cellular matrix, like um, you know, depends on what the FDA is telling us at the time, what we can call it, but it's mesochinal stem cells.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Are we using somatic stem cells that were collected from you yourself?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Are we doing PRP?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Are we doing PRF?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Or are we going now to an animal biologic?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, are we using PDRN?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: So uh in the right hands for the right circumstances, they can many of these products can help to accelerate healing a little bit.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Clinically proven, um, can be efficacious.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Soma Cell is FDA cleared and C certified and globally known since the year 2000 as a rapid wound healer.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Some of these ingredients, like PRP, used immediately after a laser treatment or some such wounding like microneedling, yeah, right, they can help accelerate your healing.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the bottom line.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: But is PDRN, salmon sperm, salmon spunk, is it going to be any better than what we already know?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And in cases like when you bombard a product with um, you know, this much PDRN and then it's all these fillers, then I'm like your product's obviously not that good because you needed all these boosters.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's something that patients really need to think about.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think more importantly, if you're combining all these different ingredients, unless there's studies showing that this new variation is more effective, I mean you're kind of just winging it.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's talk about the ingredients because I think you're gonna find this very interesting.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: For example, the advanced from the regular VAMP still has that PDRN, but as an example, on my water bottle, all of this, the majority, is actually additives.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: And these additives are industry tried and true standards that we use for anti-aging boosters or longevity boosters.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like what?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so we're using uh to quote 11 vitamins, 23 amino acids, six minerals, and added hyalinic acid.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: So what is happening here?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because Well, to me, that sounds like a bunch of buzzwords.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel it would be a superior product if it was more authentic salmon sperm.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: But if they're just throwing in a bunch of buzzword ingredients, to me, that means the product is not up to par.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, and you even told me this as well when you're altering a product and you're adding a lot of filler ingredients, unless there are studies that indicate it works, you really don't know if it's going to be effective or not.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about the smoke and mirrors effect because I feel like that's what happens a lot in our industry of beauty, and that's why we have this podcast to try to debunk this.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a missing citation problem, and it's the article references clinical studies, their latest article that they've media blitzed all over the country.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, quotes clinical studies with a subscript, but no citation listed in the article.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: So there's no resources, there's no references, there's no attachment of a white paper.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Red flag.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: So there is nothing attached to this whatsoever.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Their own press release and website trace that same footprint to two general PDRN review papers, of which um we'll quote those real resources at the end of this podcast.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but neither one of them are a trial specifically for VAMP or VAMP advanced.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: These are old trials that were just showing that there was PDRN used and it wasn't even on a human trial.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: This was an animal trial, and it was at the very beginning of scientists looking at PDRN.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: So they've spun this in a really nice little milk and cookies hour story.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And not really giving you anything other than, as you know, from being a media personality and an editor, we're using those that smoke and mirrors to be able to put up buzzwords to capture attention, but we're not actually proving anything to you.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like this new variation, there should be clinical studies to back it up to illustrate why it's a superior product.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: But it seems like all their money is being put into marketing it.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I started asking right away why does this advanced version exist at all?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's like putting lipstick on a pig, having all these ingredients, right?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I love pigs, so we're not body shaming pigs, but truly it's like lipstick on a pig because as you said, there is no real clinical study that's attached to this, and there's been no study that we know of that VAMP themselves has actually put out there for us to be able to read.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: It hasn't been clinically reviewed.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh nothing.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like all these vitamins that are out there.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the vitamin industry is huge, but very few of them are backed by clinical studies.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: It is unfortunately true.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I it's ha I'm happy to see that there are companies that are starting to step up with that.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: But since we're talking about PDRN and this new marketing blitz with this uh company Vamp in specific, you know, there unfortunately, there just hasn't been the documentation that we've been looking for.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is a common industry move, unfortunately, to be able to stack a lot of wow ingredients that people already understand these buzzwords in an effort to put lipstick on a pig and make it that original product sound a lot better.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: But let's talk about now um injectable PDRN versus topical.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very curious about that because wouldn't it only be effective if it was injected?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because if it's just applied topically, unless there's some micro injury like microneedling, how is it really getting absorbed?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a great question.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And herein lies a problem that VAMP or Vamp Advance, this company was not expecting to happen.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you read the Fiden print and when you look at the instructions for professionals, VAMP is only supposed to be used topically after a micro injury.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: They are not selling it, and it specifically states in one sentence that you look for, but it is there on the website.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: They're specifically stating to not inject this product.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the majority that I've seen upon you know online searching of providers are injecting Vamp and VAM advanced.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: So interesting.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you're actually not supposed to inject it.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought it would be the opposite.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: So this product in particular, like I said, specifically states don't inject, and the majority of the providers I've seen are injecting.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've seen it on social media too a lot.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, what is happening here?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to have a lot I thought that was the way it was supposed to be done.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I was like, let's try to help everyone and just let this, you know, let's educate everybody on how to use products like this properly.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: So there is a difference.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: The PDRN molecules, 50,000 to 1,500,000 Daltons in molecular weight.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the 500 Dalton rule in chemistry, I have to quote this from the paper because I don't want to get it wrong.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: In cosmetic chemistry, the molecules above 500 Daltons cannot meaningfully penetrate intact skin, which is why a product like Vamp should be used after laser, chemical peel, or microneedling to have that wound.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: So the Vamp PDRN actually has an opening in the skin to penetrate, not just your pore.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: It will not and cannot.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's chemically proven from cosmetic chemistry to not be able to penetrate.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's one of the reasons why an injector obviously was go, oh, we'll just inject it.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Not remembering that the companies, like, by the way, do not inject our product.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: So is there a difference between injectable PDRN and non-injectable?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the question is efficacy of the topical and even honestly of the injected part.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when it comes down to compelling PDRN clinical research, which was conducted using injections that bypass the skin barrier entirely, not topical application, we still are missing a host of the clinical evidence that we want.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: There are two studies that I know of, both which were conducted in Asia, that showed there was some efficacy for anti-aging when it was injected PDRN.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it has to be PDRN, P D R N from salmon sperm, not from COD.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's another topic.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Another whole problem to understand.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because the thing with this whole salmon sperm trend, and it is a trend, is that I've seen reports recently that a lot of the times it's not genuine salmon sperm that's being injected.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: And while it may contain it in some cases, it's often more fillers, it's not actually from salmon, it's from other fish.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: So and there's so much um fake products in that market right now.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of the times you don't know what's really being injected.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And even if it's something reputable like Vamp, you don't even know if the quantity is enough to have any real effect.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that you're always on top of things like I am because the reports you read are true.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I was very alarmed by seeing that myself.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it makes me I am not playing, and I I try everything.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not getting it.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, from months ago, we had actually posted on my social media um about cod versus salmon spunk.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: And to make it funny, like I literally was calling it salmon spunk instead of PDRN.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: But it's a huge problem with the industry.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just an Asian problem, by the way, from Asian suppliers or suppliers of PDRN from all over the world, including the US, that are actually selling COD sperm.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I can guarantee right now, right now, on this day, there's no scientific evidence from any country in the world that shows any efficacy with COD sperm.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: What they do show is that there is basically no risk for an allergic response to injected or topically used COD sperm.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's why it's a safe, fraudulent activity.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly, because it's fraudulent, it's the wrong look, it's the wrong fish.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: They're not gonna react, but they're also not gonna get any benefit.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you're gonna spend hundreds to thousands of dollars per treatment, and by the way, it's painful, and we'll talk about that in a minute.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, there is a pain factor, there is a massive response uh factor to be able to do that.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Your body has a response because I've seen people get all these bumps after the fact that it's like oof.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: So with the cod sperm problem, to break it down specifically, um, the PDRN and the COD sperm DNA are vastly different.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's a completely different molecular profile.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that there's a reason why the human body's not responding the way it does to salmon sperm, because it's literally not just a different fish, but the there's no true sperm that are alike.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: The sperm is different as well.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: The problem with the industry supplying cod sperm is that a lot of providers don't know this and they don't look.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: They're only looking for a package that says PDRN.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: And if it says like guaranteed, maybe sterile processing, right?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Guaranteed sterile processing, guaranteed sterile packaging.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: These are the buzzwords that a provider is looking for, but what does it really mean when it comes to the efficacy of your product itself?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Providers, please take an extra step and actually demand to know what PDRN source is being provided.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: You need salmon PDRN.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Period.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do not accept anything.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: If a company is like, well, you know it's PDRN, right, but I asked you from where?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's the only question you have to stand by and stand your ground on.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Where is the PDRN sourced?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: So when we're talking about PDRN injection bumps and side effects, there is a product that is guaranteed salmon PDRN.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And as far as I'm concerned right now, for due diligence of the resources, Rejuron is the company that is like the industry standard because they are putting their money where their mouth is when it comes to trying to give you the real clinical evidence, and they are guaranteeing that their product is salmon PDRN.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: So Rejuron, you know, we can clap for them that they're doing the right thing.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: But then at least someone is.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: But then you and I also want to know but is it efficacious?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is it worth the time, the money?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: What is the problem, the downtime, the pain?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Even if it's genuine salmon sperm, is it gonna show any significant effect?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like we discussed when you came on my podcast, is you know, I'm always trying stuff, and I've tried things that I saw genuine results for, and then I've tried other things where I saw next to none.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, if I knew that ahead of time, it would have never wasted time.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you're probably like me as well, that like I'm not 22 anymore, so I always have a personal stake.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's a reason why I'm a regenerative longevity expert.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I want it for me first.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to say though, and no offense to anyone that thought this was a good idea.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: When I first saw the bazillion little bumps of salmon sperm deposits, I actually burst out laughing because I was like, dude, wait, this is To me, that looks like an allergic reaction.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like you're injecting salmon spunk in your face and you're gonna tell me you look younger.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like right away, to me, it just seemed like, what?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: It really does look like an allergic reaction.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like you want to give them an epi pen.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, come on, man.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: But when it comes to the efficacy, I was just like, you know, like, come on, sperm.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, are you kidding me?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: This has got to be a joke.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I felt about it.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Just like the the we'll talk about some of the other hokey stuff that came along that was trending and in and out, thank God, and went away.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: But we do want to point out that uh PDRN, even from a juron, is not FDA approved.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: It is technically still off label when we're using it for any purpose, including the longevity and uh facial injections.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: It is positioned as superior to HA fillers because it regenerates rather than just fills.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: However, patient experienced with true rejuron injections have reported widespread all over the world, and the company does not deny this, that there is significant pain, swelling, redness, several days of downtime associated with each inject injection day.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: So each time you go for the treatment, you know.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: And how many times do you need to go for the treatment?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because filler is a one and done.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe a touch up if needed.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: So um the truth behind it is that it's not a no downtime treatment.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a Pain-free treatment, it's actually very painful, even with topical numbing, because when the product is injected into the skin, it's not just the needle prick, it's the product itself burns as it's entering the skin.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: So PRP, for example, which as we know is spun down from our own blood, so it's chemical free, it's from our body.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that's tolerable, but even that burns a bit.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I was gonna say it depends on the tube.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you're using a very, very inexpensive basic tube, it will also burn as it's injected, and it's your own body's material.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: So can you imagine how in body material is gonna burn way more?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not trying to scare anyone, we're just saying that don't believe that this is not painful and that there's no downtime.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: There is, there is that downtime.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna be like, you said it's gonna look like a crazy hive, a very specific hive outbreak response all across your face.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: That also leads us into um the retracted flagship trial, which is to me the most damning problem of all of this.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're going back to with PDRN with um regiron.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there was a phase three trial published in the Journal of Korean Medical Science back in 2014.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And the paper cited most often as Reguron's proof was subsequently retracted due to undisclosed conflicts of interest.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, what were those conflicts of interest and why did they never revamp the paper?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Why didn't they just rewrite the paper and resubmit it?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't know if you've ever seen the white paper, um, and this is worldwide, it's not indicative of the USA, but with white paper submission, you will, if you're denied, there is a certain set of questions and responses that the editors and the actual graders who are blind grading your white paper, yeah, will submit back to you so you can rewrite your paper according to what they felt was wrong with it, what was missing, are there omissions?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Did you not have the right evidence?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever, whether whether it was illustrations or if it was clinical actual tests that need to be in this clinical paper, they give you a blueprint of how to rewrite it.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: So re-juring has never tried to resubmit this paper or any other.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: To me, red flag.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: What's that red flag number?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: What now?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not a minor footprint.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: The paper that launched a global industry trend was pulled from scientific records.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, it's like the reason why, you know, I have this image up of like covering your eyes because we're just turning a blind eye to the fact that, oh my God, it's a trend, and everyone wants it, and it's salmon sperm, it's PDRN, we've got to get it.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: I want all those crazy, painful bumps all over my face because it's gonna make me look younger.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: But where's the evidence?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: The company itself, the one I just said is the most legitimate out of all of them, has pulled their clinical evidence and never attempted to put it back.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: And no one does that without there being a major reason.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because you want the clinical evidence because it's so helpful for marketing material.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you could jack up the price, you could get it in more places.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: So for them to like back away from that, that says a lot.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: To me, it's actually as an industry provider, to me, it's scary because, like you said, it the more exclusive a thing is, let's think about like the higher demand.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Ermas Birken.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: Is that really a$75,000 bag?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: What ostrich do you know was born anywhere that was worth$75,000?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: But there was, they controlled the supply, they controlled the demands.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was real, whatever, whether it was made out of alligator or ostrich or whatever it was, um, limited releases of certain colors, certain leathers, right?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: It really was the material they said it was, but they controlled the supply to jack the demand.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then they could price it at any cost.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: So as you just pointed out, why would Rejerrumline not put this study back up or do a new one?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if they believed in it, knowing the effect that it could have on their product and their business, why wouldn't you go harder with it?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: And no offense, but hello, this is South Korea, who is like at the forefront of beauty now.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're racing forward, right?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: With the industry, it would have been very easy for them to do a massive trial of hundreds of patients and they could have had that done in a year.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they clearly didn't for a reason.