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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: In Memory of Michael and Jason - The Horrors Perpetrated by Steven Lorenzo · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:08
Speaker 1: Buddy Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. I don't know about y'all,
0:20
Speaker 1: but when I was a little boy, I was given
0:22
Speaker 1: a magnifying glass, and it was probably one of the
0:26
Speaker 1: most wondrous gifts that I ever had. I would go
0:31
Speaker 1: about in my grandmother's backyard in North Louisiana, and I
0:34
Speaker 1: would look at everything from blades of grass to sand.
0:39
Speaker 1: I had a huge sandpile. I was fascinated by how
0:43
Speaker 1: sand looked under high magnification. You pick out all of
0:46
Speaker 1: these details that exist. But you know, being a young boy,
0:53
Speaker 1: one of the things that I was also fascinated by
0:55
Speaker 1: was the ability to concentrate the intensity of the sun's
1:00
Speaker 1: light and the subsequent heat that resulted from that. Started
1:05
Speaker 1: out burning leaves and that sort of thing, and when
1:08
Speaker 1: that didn't satisfy me, I find ants and other bugs.
1:12
Speaker 1: But there was something within me that I retreated from it.
1:16
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it over a period of time because
1:18
Speaker 1: I began to actually feel bad about burning ants. There
1:24
Speaker 1: are people among us that don't have the capacity, I think,
1:29
Speaker 1: to understand the pain of others, whether they be insects
1:34
Speaker 1: or fellow human beings. Today, we're going to talk about
1:40
Speaker 1: one such person, a person by the name of Stephen Lorenzo,
1:46
Speaker 1: who I'll go ahead and tell you now wound up
1:49
Speaker 1: being convicted of two deaths, but he is associated with
1:55
Speaker 1: the torture of many, many others, a few of which survived.
2:00
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body backs. Brother Dave.
2:09
Speaker 1: Do you ever have those cases that when we begin
2:13
Speaker 1: to kind of talk about them and read through these details,
2:17
Speaker 1: they kind of set your teeth on edge, that kind
2:19
Speaker 1: of make you squirm a little bit.
2:22
Speaker 2: When you get into the nitty gritty. Steven Lorenzo, every
2:26
Speaker 2: way you turn, there's something more evil than the last thing.
2:30
Speaker 2: Just to give everybody a bird's eye view, we're talking
2:33
Speaker 2: about crimes that happened in two thousand and three and
2:37
Speaker 2: just got a sentence this year, twenty years later. And
2:41
Speaker 2: I want to know, first of all, what is GHB
2:45
Speaker 2: because it plays a big role. I know we've heard
2:48
Speaker 2: it called the day rape drug, but I need to
2:50
Speaker 2: know what it is, what it does, because this is
2:53
Speaker 2: where Steven Lorenzo and his roommate started trolling gay clubs
2:57
Speaker 2: in Tampa in two thousand and three. A number of
3:00
Speaker 2: gay men went missing in the Tampa, Florida area in
3:03
Speaker 2: Tampa Bay and Stephen Lorenzo and his roommate actually went
3:08
Speaker 2: picked up these guys in gay bars, went back to
3:12
Speaker 2: Lorenzo's house and they tortured these men. Some of the
3:16
Speaker 2: men have no memory whatsoever of what took place. They
3:20
Speaker 2: just knew the after effects. They knew they had marks
3:23
Speaker 2: on their body, and didn't remember how they happened. We
3:27
Speaker 2: have two of them that died, one never found and
3:31
Speaker 2: one that was basically laid out on display in his
3:34
Speaker 2: own vehicle in his apartment complex parking area. That's who
3:37
Speaker 2: Stephen Lorenzo is in terms of a murderer and damager
3:42
Speaker 2: of people. Did I just make up a word damager?
3:45
Speaker 1: Well, okay, I'll allow it. In the words of the hangover, yeah,
3:49
Speaker 1: I'll allow it. GHP. It is a drug that really
3:54
Speaker 1: serves no purpose whatsoever. It's something that is essentially produced illegally,
4:00
Speaker 1: and it's the actual name is gamma hydroxy buterrate. It's
4:04
Speaker 1: a compound that is created generally in a clandestine lab
4:10
Speaker 1: and it has been around now for years. And let
4:13
Speaker 1: me give you some of the other and before I
4:14
Speaker 1: get into the nature of it, let me give you
4:17
Speaker 1: some of the other names that it goes by, and
4:20
Speaker 1: this actually comes from the DEA and these are the
4:23
Speaker 1: names that you encounter on the street. So just bear
4:26
Speaker 1: with me one second. The first one ought to give
4:29
Speaker 1: you an idea right out of the box. The first
4:31
Speaker 1: one is it's called easy lay l A y G standalone, Georgia,
4:38
Speaker 1: Homeboy GHB, obviously, goop, grievous, get this one. You're ready
4:44
Speaker 1: for this one. Grievous, bodily harm. Does that kind of
4:48
Speaker 1: paint a picture? Liquid ecstasy liquid X and scoop is
4:53
Speaker 1: another one, uh, and it you can find it in
4:56
Speaker 1: a powder form. It's liquified as well. Here's kind of
5:00
Speaker 1: the insidious part to this. It has no color in
5:05
Speaker 1: the liquid form, it has no odor, and it's tasteless.
5:09
Speaker 1: So you could just be hanging out in a bar
5:12
Speaker 1: and anyone that has just a dropper of this, and
5:17
Speaker 1: it doesn't take much, just put a tiny little drop
5:21
Speaker 1: into someone's drink and what will generally happen is that
5:25
Speaker 1: the person will be in to experience some level of euphoria.
5:30
Speaker 1: But as this drug goes to work, particularly in the
5:34
Speaker 1: long term, you develop almost a temporary amnesia. Dave, and
5:39
Speaker 1: you know what, you were saying, you got these guys
5:41
Speaker 1: out there that have gotten marks all over their bodies,
5:43
Speaker 1: And can you imagine waking up on the side of
5:47
Speaker 1: the road somewhere at some point in time, and you've
5:50
Speaker 1: got marks all over your body and you can't explain them.
5:54
Speaker 1: How bizarre would that be?
5:57
Speaker 2: If you were in a bar and everybody's dancing and
6:00
Speaker 2: having a good time, and you have this little bial
6:02
Speaker 2: of liquid, just a little bit, and somebody turns their
6:05
Speaker 2: back and you just reach over and pour it in
6:06
Speaker 2: their drink, and that's all it would take to basically
6:10
Speaker 2: render this person it within a matter of a short
6:13
Speaker 2: period of time, rendered them unable to defend themselves. Is
6:17
Speaker 2: that what we're talking about here?
6:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And there are some people that actually take
6:21
Speaker 1: it recreationally, if you can imagine that, because they The
6:25
Speaker 1: idea is that, first off, all inhibitions go out the window.
6:29
Speaker 1: The pharmacology types that study it have noted that in
6:33
Speaker 1: test subjects that there's an increase in libido, that is,
6:37
Speaker 1: you know, your sex drive is kicked into high gear.
6:39
Speaker 1: There's also and here's another part of this. Then listen
6:43
Speaker 1: to this suggestibility that is that if you are applied
6:47
Speaker 1: with a drug, it makes you compliant, and the person
6:52
Speaker 1: that is applying the drug has targeted this individual man
6:57
Speaker 1: or woman. They're watching this individual maybe from across the room,
7:01
Speaker 1: and what they're looking for is to somebody for somebody
7:04
Speaker 1: that's not protecting their drink, because that's the easiest way
7:07
Speaker 1: to get it on board if you're doing it and
7:10
Speaker 1: you want to go unnoticed. And maybe the more intoxicated
7:14
Speaker 1: an individual becomes, you lose a sense of awareness anyway,
7:18
Speaker 1: kind of woozy anyway. I'm not saying you're in a
7:21
Speaker 1: dream state, but you might not be as on your
7:25
Speaker 1: game otherwise. And then you've got this person that means
7:30
Speaker 1: to do you harm in the worst way possible.
7:33
Speaker 2: On top of those feelings of everything you're describing, the
7:36
Speaker 2: mood it puts you in, and the physical inability you
7:39
Speaker 2: have to actually be your best version of yourself. Now
7:42
Speaker 2: you've got Steven Lorenzo and his roommate Scott Schweikert. These
7:48
Speaker 2: two guys actually connected with one another online in Cana
7:52
Speaker 2: in chat rooms online talking about fantasies of rape and
7:56
Speaker 2: all this other crazy stuff online, so that when they
7:58
Speaker 2: became roommates and then got the GHB and went into
8:02
Speaker 2: the gay clubs of Tampa. Holy moly, Joe, it's not
8:06
Speaker 2: just one guy at the bar talking to you. One
8:08
Speaker 2: of these guys could have been sitting off to the
8:09
Speaker 2: side watching as the drug takes effect on the victim,
8:13
Speaker 2: and when it's time to escort them out, Hey, he's
8:16
Speaker 2: had one too many. Let's get him out. And then
8:19
Speaker 2: you've got a two on one scenario. World one is
8:22
Speaker 2: totally the victim incapable of defending themselves at all.
8:28
Speaker 1: And that's the thing about it. It's almost like, and
8:30
Speaker 1: I've got this, I'm kind of a simple minded person.
8:32
Speaker 1: I have this vision of a pack of hyenas kind
8:37
Speaker 1: of circling a wounded will to beast on one of
8:40
Speaker 1: those nature shows the will to beast. Though they'll even attempt,
8:43
Speaker 1: in their own feeble way to fight back, you know,
8:46
Speaker 1: they'll resist. But if you've got these predators that are
8:50
Speaker 1: kind of in your orbit, now, they're just circling, they're
8:53
Speaker 1: just waiting, they're waiting, and you can actually get the
8:57
Speaker 1: individual under your power of suggestion, and hey, why don't
9:00
Speaker 1: we go somewhere else. Oh man, Yeah, that sounds great
9:03
Speaker 1: there in this uphoric state. And the next thing, you know,
9:07
Speaker 1: you're in the back of a vehicle going to literally
9:11
Speaker 1: the pit of Hell. I could rattle off names now
9:33
Speaker 1: probably and you'd recognize them. We could talk about, obviously
9:39
Speaker 1: at the top list is Jeffrey Dahmer. We could talk
9:42
Speaker 1: about the alleged lisc killer. Any number of serial perpetrators
9:49
Speaker 1: come to mind. And one of the things that is
9:53
Speaker 1: common to all of these subjects, either confirmed or alleged,
9:58
Speaker 1: is this idea of control, control over an individual who
10:06
Speaker 1: the perpetrator has dehumanized. They're no longer human to the perpetrator.
10:12
Speaker 1: They are in a position of vulnerability and they are
10:16
Speaker 1: malleable to anything that happens. But here's the trick. If
10:20
Speaker 1: you're going to do this, if you're going to control somebody,
10:25
Speaker 1: what are you going to take them? We're going to
10:27
Speaker 1: do with them? Because that's the big key here.
10:30
Speaker 2: The house that Stephen Lorenzo and Scotti Schwagger were living in,
10:33
Speaker 2: it was just these two guys with a rape, murder,
10:38
Speaker 2: torture fantasy world that goes beyond the pale that that
10:42
Speaker 2: was actually their connection. The reason they became friends is
10:45
Speaker 2: because they both had fantasies of torturing other people, of
10:50
Speaker 2: raping people and killing them. And that's where they got
10:54
Speaker 2: together and ended up becoming roommates and then had a
10:58
Speaker 2: game plan. They figured out exactly what to do and
11:00
Speaker 2: how to get it done. They went into the gay
11:03
Speaker 2: clubs in Tampa, they picked out who they were going
11:06
Speaker 2: to get. And I didn't realize until today exactly how
11:10
Speaker 2: GHB worked the way you explained it a few minutes ago, Joe,
11:13
Speaker 2: I didn't know that. I now know that it wasn't
11:17
Speaker 2: a difficult thing to step to pick out the prey
11:20
Speaker 2: and get them out and get them back to a
11:22
Speaker 2: private setting. They don't have to find a place. They're
11:24
Speaker 2: not having to pull around in a dark alley or
11:27
Speaker 2: go out there. They've got a place to go. Let's
11:29
Speaker 2: go back to my place. Let's take the party to
11:32
Speaker 2: my place.
11:32
Speaker 1: Just think about it for one second when you think
11:34
Speaker 1: about the nature of this drug and how it impacts
11:38
Speaker 1: the person that has been exposed to it. Because you
11:42
Speaker 1: could see, for instance, you've got three adults in this case,
11:48
Speaker 1: three adult males, who you can imagine if you visually
11:52
Speaker 1: see them all these you know, you're not talking about
11:55
Speaker 1: a young kid that's screaming for their parents. You know,
11:58
Speaker 1: help me, help me, you're talking about somebody that appears
12:01
Speaker 1: compliant and game for anything, and so you've got this
12:05
Speaker 1: compliant subject that's being led into this environment. It's not
12:10
Speaker 1: you know, if the neighbors see it, all right, or
12:12
Speaker 1: somebody driving down the road sees them, they're going to say, well,
12:15
Speaker 1: that's three adults hanging out. It looks like they're having
12:19
Speaker 1: a great time. But you know, it masks the reality
12:22
Speaker 1: of what's actually going on. It's amazing when you think
12:25
Speaker 1: about it, that you can give someone a substance that does,
12:30
Speaker 1: in fact muld them into this being that is totally
12:34
Speaker 1: and completely compliant. And that again going back to this
12:37
Speaker 1: analogous to the pit of Hell, you're actually ushering them
12:41
Speaker 1: over the threshold into this environment. And they're not fighting,
12:45
Speaker 1: you Dave, they're not fighting at all. They're willingly, at
12:47
Speaker 1: least from a drug induced standpoint, willingly going in and
12:52
Speaker 1: passing through that portal.
12:54
Speaker 2: This happened in two thousand and three two different men,
12:57
Speaker 2: Jason Gelhaus and Michael Walckols, Steven Lorenzo in a Tampa
13:02
Speaker 2: night club. They both were taken back to Lorenzo's house
13:07
Speaker 2: where he and Scott Schweiker. They basically kidnapped them because
13:11
Speaker 2: these guys would not have gone willingly had they known
13:13
Speaker 2: what was going to happen. But they were kidnapped, drugged,
13:17
Speaker 2: sexually tortured, and then they were both killed. Whereas Jason Galehouse,
13:24
Speaker 2: his body was cut up and stuffed the parts into
13:27
Speaker 2: trash bags and then ditched them in garbage bins all
13:30
Speaker 2: around the city of Tampa. That didn't happen to Michael Walkholt.
13:34
Speaker 2: He actually was found in his car, wrapped in a
13:38
Speaker 2: sheet in his jeep in apartment complex parking area.
13:41
Speaker 1: A decomposing mantu. He was found a particularly lengthy tom later,
13:47
Speaker 1: you know, because most people don't expect to see something
13:49
Speaker 1: like that.
13:50
Speaker 2: No, And the thing that got everybody freaking out is
13:53
Speaker 2: that they weren't the only two guys that went missing.
13:56
Speaker 2: I think there were nine guys that were missing in
13:58
Speaker 2: a fairly short period of time, and these two come
14:01
Speaker 2: up dead at one was dismembered and one was not.
14:05
Speaker 2: One was actually totally disposed of where we still haven't
14:09
Speaker 2: been able to find him, and the other was, hey,
14:13
Speaker 2: he's right there in his own car.
14:14
Speaker 1: Can I tell you what they did find of Gaelhouse,
14:17
Speaker 1: even though his body was never actually recovered during the
14:21
Speaker 1: course of the investigation. What they did find at Lorenzo's
14:26
Speaker 1: home is that when they went into the garage, they
14:30
Speaker 1: actually found evidence of Gaelhouse's blood on the floor. And
14:35
Speaker 1: one of the things that keeps coming up in this
14:37
Speaker 1: case in particular, but in other cases as well, is
14:40
Speaker 1: the specter of dismemberment. Here we go again, Dave.
14:44
Speaker 2: You mentioned that a while back, Joe, that we seem
14:46
Speaker 2: to be getting a lot of it.
14:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, we really do. I don't know, it's probably just
14:49
Speaker 1: this idea that we're more focused on it, or maybe
14:53
Speaker 1: I don't know. It seems to me the world they're
14:57
Speaker 1: less boundaries now, even for killers. But that is part
15:01
Speaker 1: of I love the Latin term corpus delecti, because you
15:05
Speaker 1: have evidence of violence that has taken place here, and
15:10
Speaker 1: why else would this total stranger's blood be on the
15:13
Speaker 1: floor of his garage. And a dismemberment, again, is something
15:17
Speaker 1: that requires some level of not just tools, but it
15:21
Speaker 1: requires prophecy. This is not something you're going to go
15:23
Speaker 1: out in the front yard and do.
15:25
Speaker 2: Can we back up to the blood in the garage
15:26
Speaker 2: for just a minute, Joe. The way it was described
15:29
Speaker 2: in court was that it was a pool of blood
15:33
Speaker 2: under the floor of Lorenzo's garage, the floor being those
15:38
Speaker 2: big brick things that you can use as a flooring area,
15:42
Speaker 2: and I'm guessing the blood seeped underneath those, and they
15:46
Speaker 2: called it a pool of blood. How long will blood
15:50
Speaker 2: remain where you can actually see was there and test
15:54
Speaker 2: it from the time it comes out of my body?
15:56
Speaker 2: How long are you going to be able to find
15:58
Speaker 2: it in that dirt?
15:59
Speaker 1: You can find it for a protracted period of time.
16:02
Speaker 1: It's amazing how resilient it is. I sound like I'm
16:05
Speaker 1: talking out of both sides of my mouth, but just
16:06
Speaker 1: bear with me. If it is in a cool, more
16:09
Speaker 1: protected area, say like underflooring like this, or remember this
16:14
Speaker 1: is down in Tampa, all right, So we're talking about
16:16
Speaker 1: a harsh environment, all right, from you're in a semi
16:19
Speaker 1: tropical environment down there, and you're thinking about, well, it
16:23
Speaker 1: would change very quickly. You can still find some remnant
16:27
Speaker 1: of it. And here's something else. The fact that they're
16:30
Speaker 1: using the term pool associated with seepach gives you an
16:34
Speaker 1: idea of what volume that there was that after this
16:37
Speaker 1: time they're still able to appreciate it. Now, would you
16:41
Speaker 1: be able to use it. I think many people would think, well,
16:45
Speaker 1: would you actually be able to use this degraded blood,
16:49
Speaker 1: it would still give up enough information from a toxicological
16:53
Speaker 1: standpoint where you could actually see evidence of GHB in
16:58
Speaker 1: that No, I don't think to that point. However, you
17:01
Speaker 1: would still see I think even microscopically, if you were
17:05
Speaker 1: to examine it eyes on, you could see decomposing remnant
17:09
Speaker 1: of the blood at a microscopic level, and you would
17:12
Speaker 1: probably be able to which I think they did in
17:16
Speaker 1: this case, confirm at least at a molecular level that
17:20
Speaker 1: this blood was associated with Gealehouse. Plus you would need
17:24
Speaker 1: the circumstantial evidence. Would someone actually roll over on another
17:29
Speaker 1: person and confess to this?
17:50
Speaker 2: Dave?
17:51
Speaker 1: Do you recall in our opening I had mentioned the
17:54
Speaker 1: magnifying glass and seeing what it would be like to
17:59
Speaker 1: burn insects. One of the most distasteful parts of that,
18:02
Speaker 1: I think for me personally, I can't speak to anybody else,
18:05
Speaker 1: is that even as a little boy, you look at
18:08
Speaker 1: this and you can sense that there's some level of
18:11
Speaker 1: discomfort and pain when you do this. One of the
18:15
Speaker 1: things that's quite off putting about it. But as I
18:18
Speaker 1: mentioned when we first set forth, on this conversation. I
18:23
Speaker 1: think that some people are incapable of that. As a
18:27
Speaker 1: matter of fact, I think that some people long to
18:31
Speaker 1: see that discomfort. Recently, I had watched a piece on
18:35
Speaker 1: the Marquis de Side. The term sadism actually arises from
18:40
Speaker 1: his name and the depths that he sunk to this debauchery,
18:45
Speaker 1: this horrible basement of human behavior he in dwelled, and
18:50
Speaker 1: I think that there is not just a touch, not
18:54
Speaker 1: just a touch. I think that this whole series of
18:57
Speaker 1: crimes is a wash in sata.
19:00
Speaker 2: When I read the survivor description of what he went through,
19:06
Speaker 2: I think you're exactly right, Joe. This is what Albert
19:08
Speaker 2: Perkins said. Albert Perkins was drugged and attacked by Lorenzo
19:13
Speaker 2: and was one of the few that lived to tell
19:16
Speaker 2: the tale about this. He said this quote. I was panicked, hysterical.
19:21
Speaker 2: I remember him sitting. He turned me over. He was
19:25
Speaker 2: sitting on the side of the bed. His face he
19:28
Speaker 2: just didn't look the same. Nothing behind his eyes, they
19:32
Speaker 2: were dark. His face was contorted, which further panicked me.
19:36
Speaker 2: Perkins said. He slipped in and out of consciousness, and
19:39
Speaker 2: when he finally came to, Lorenzo was in complete control. Quote,
19:44
Speaker 2: my arms and my legs were bound and some twine
19:50
Speaker 2: rope around my neck. I had duct tape over my
19:53
Speaker 2: eyes and mouth.
19:55
Speaker 1: I don't know that you can take the measure of that, really.
19:58
Speaker 1: I don't want to get too far off into the
20:00
Speaker 1: weeds talking about areas that psychologists would get into here.
20:04
Speaker 1: But from a forensic standpoint, you see evidence of this,
20:08
Speaker 1: and you go out to these scenes and you see
20:10
Speaker 1: things like, you know, one of the things we'd look for,
20:12
Speaker 1: things like binding materials out there, and you have to
20:16
Speaker 1: address it. It's the elephant in the room at that
20:18
Speaker 1: point in time. You've got binding materials. And one of
20:21
Speaker 1: the things that you see with kidnapped victims many times
20:24
Speaker 1: when you're looking at bodies is you'll see like adhesive residue.
20:30
Speaker 1: We all know what duct tape looks like. A strip
20:33
Speaker 1: of duct tape is put over the eyes or over
20:36
Speaker 1: the mouth. If someone has facial hair, has the hair
20:39
Speaker 1: been ripped out as a result. I've found literally I
20:42
Speaker 1: found duct tape at scenes that contained human hair where
20:47
Speaker 1: it had been removed and then maybe fresh had been reapplied,
20:50
Speaker 1: because it'll begin to turn loose as a result of
20:54
Speaker 1: you know, the moisture interacting with the adhesive. But you'll
20:56
Speaker 1: see that residue of adhesive and it's something that we
20:59
Speaker 1: take note of and the more to try to tell
21:02
Speaker 1: the story of what's happening. And this fellow was mentioning
21:07
Speaker 1: the use of twine and being a very narrow type
21:11
Speaker 1: of binding. It's not like you're using some kind of
21:14
Speaker 1: broad woven rope here. It's going to dig in and say,
21:18
Speaker 1: for instance, we find a body that has been bound
21:21
Speaker 1: by something like twine, you'll have these very deep furrows
21:26
Speaker 1: because the more narrow the binding is, the deeper the
21:29
Speaker 1: furrow will be, and there'll be evidence of that. But
21:32
Speaker 1: here's the thing. When you begin to think about the
21:35
Speaker 1: actions of the GHB, as he is has an awareness
21:39
Speaker 1: he's in this kind of and they describe it like
21:41
Speaker 1: a dream like state. Most of the time you have
21:44
Speaker 1: an awareness this is going on. Maybe in your brain
21:47
Speaker 1: you're screaming out this is not right, but you have
21:50
Speaker 1: no control of your body. It's almost as if if
21:52
Speaker 1: people in the audience can identify if you've ever had
21:55
Speaker 1: surgery where they push that initial drug in to the
22:00
Speaker 1: line and you get in this kind of milky warm state,
22:05
Speaker 1: and they could essentially do anything to you in surgery,
22:08
Speaker 1: which they're going to do. They're going to do a
22:11
Speaker 1: bit of cutting, and you don't want to have an
22:13
Speaker 1: awareness of that, but there's nothing you can do about it.
22:16
Speaker 2: Albert Perkins said, this went on for five hours. It
22:19
Speaker 2: wasn't just a hey, I'm tied up. It was, like
22:22
Speaker 2: you said, it's a dream state. He knew what was
22:24
Speaker 2: going on for the most part, but he couldn't do
22:27
Speaker 2: anything about it. And five hours of torture. I'm thinking
22:31
Speaker 2: about struggling from the twine, because you know, we all
22:33
Speaker 2: know what twine feels like on your skin. I can't
22:36
Speaker 2: imagine he had to have been just struggling, even in
22:39
Speaker 2: that dream state to get out the pain that would
22:41
Speaker 2: have just come from that alone. But Joe, when we're
22:44
Speaker 2: dealing with a sexual assault, how are you going to
22:48
Speaker 2: go back and determine on men? What are the sexual
22:52
Speaker 2: assault kits?
22:54
Speaker 1: Like?
22:54
Speaker 2: I have no clue.
22:55
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, there's no difference between the sexual assault kits.
22:59
Speaker 1: They're the same and to purpose the same more than likely.
23:02
Speaker 1: It's just that with when we're dealing with a male body.
23:07
Speaker 1: I'm going to be very blunt here. We're dealing with
23:09
Speaker 1: a male body. First off, we're going to be swabs
23:11
Speaker 1: externally all over the body to see if there is
23:14
Speaker 1: any kind of ejaculate that's left behind. And this is
23:18
Speaker 1: facilitated rather easily. We have kits for this. But when
23:23
Speaker 1: we do a rape kit on males, just like with females,
23:27
Speaker 1: what will generally happen is that you will have multiple
23:32
Speaker 1: swabs that are actually placed into the rectum and they'll
23:37
Speaker 1: be allowed to sit in there for several minutes because
23:41
Speaker 1: you want anything that is in there, you want it
23:44
Speaker 1: to be absorbed into the tip of the swabs. And
23:49
Speaker 1: the victim who we have the intact body, which is
23:52
Speaker 1: mister Wackoltz who is found decomposing in his jeep. This
23:56
Speaker 1: is and keep in mind he sat in that jeep
23:58
Speaker 1: for two weeks, Dave two weeks, and so that even
24:02
Speaker 1: furthers this because at a cellular level, in the bowel
24:06
Speaker 1: in particular, you have this environment where you have the
24:10
Speaker 1: cellular breakdown that's taking place. That's one of the reasons
24:13
Speaker 1: we kind of have this liquefied event that's going on
24:18
Speaker 1: when you have what referred to as purge that are
24:21
Speaker 1: issuing out from the mouth and any bodily oriphics. Many
24:25
Speaker 1: times there's kind of the seepitch. It's a it's one
24:28
Speaker 1: of the foulest substances you can ever smell in the world.
24:32
Speaker 1: Is there a chance that you could recover some evidence
24:36
Speaker 1: of semen that's still contained in that area per a
24:40
Speaker 1: rape kit, It's going to be very difficult. So our
24:45
Speaker 1: default position in a case like this where we have
24:48
Speaker 1: a decomposed body is we're going to look for external
24:52
Speaker 1: trauma around the anus, for instance. And here's the thing.
24:57
Speaker 1: When you begin to look for this trauma, you're looking
25:00
Speaker 1: for contusions, you're looking for tearing, and you have to
25:04
Speaker 1: have a very keen eye as a pathologist, these forensic
25:08
Speaker 1: pathologists that do these exams, because that particular area of
25:12
Speaker 1: the body will be greatly compromised. And I don't know
25:15
Speaker 1: if you're aware of this, but any orifice in the
25:18
Speaker 1: body during the course of decomposition, that's where flies actually
25:25
Speaker 1: first set in and lay their eggs. So you'll have
25:29
Speaker 1: the rectal area, you'll have the mouth, the ears, the nose,
25:33
Speaker 1: the eyes. You have fly eggs and the eyes they
25:36
Speaker 1: go for those moist and warm areas, so you have
25:39
Speaker 1: maggot development in that area as well. So they're trying
25:42
Speaker 1: to feed, they're trying to survive.
25:44
Speaker 2: So is it really a true thing not just out
25:46
Speaker 2: of the movies that forensic people can use fly stuff
25:51
Speaker 2: to determine how long a person has been dead or
25:54
Speaker 2: has been in the vehicle in this case.
25:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, you sure can, because what happens is there's if
25:59
Speaker 1: you think of it as revel or cycles, which is
26:02
Speaker 1: what my friends in entomology like to They use that
26:05
Speaker 1: term a lot. The life cycle of the common blowfly.
26:08
Speaker 1: You find maggot husk that are laying about, and that's
26:12
Speaker 1: where the maggots are going through their progression to becoming
26:18
Speaker 1: full on adult flies. Here's another little unknown that you
26:23
Speaker 1: might find interesting day. Did you know that if we
26:26
Speaker 1: have a decomposing body, that we can take maggot samples
26:31
Speaker 1: from the body and dig this, place them into a centrifuge,
26:37
Speaker 1: which is into a tube, and seal it up. Place
26:40
Speaker 1: it in a centrifuge which spins things right, It spins
26:43
Speaker 1: it down, and it spins it down until the maggots
26:46
Speaker 1: are actually liquefied. And guess what we can do with that.
26:50
Speaker 1: We can actually draw it up, run it for drug testing.
26:55
Speaker 1: We can see if there are any drugs on board there. Now,
26:59
Speaker 1: it's kind of iffy as to whether or not you
27:01
Speaker 1: could pick up on GHP in a maggot sample, but
27:05
Speaker 1: you can find cocaine or cocaine metabolite. You can find
27:09
Speaker 1: the metabolite of heroin many times in dwelling within these
27:14
Speaker 1: liquefied maggots. That's always been fascinating to me because the
27:18
Speaker 1: bugs not only are giving you an indication of timeline,
27:22
Speaker 1: they're also giving you an indication as to what they've ingested,
27:27
Speaker 1: what they've subsisted off of, which is this human remainance
27:30
Speaker 1: before them.
27:31
Speaker 2: You know, you mentioned something about Michael Walcholtz. We're talking
27:35
Speaker 2: about him being in his jeep and decomposing over two weeks.
27:38
Speaker 2: One thing I wanted to bring out, and it goes
27:41
Speaker 2: back to the actual scene taking place, these men meeting
27:46
Speaker 2: in a bar, going back to Lorenzo's house to have
27:49
Speaker 2: a party.
27:49
Speaker 1: Or what have you.
27:51
Speaker 2: But we do know, because there was the specter of
27:54
Speaker 2: the death penalty hanging overhead that Deven Lorenzo's partner in crime,
27:58
Speaker 2: Scott Schweickert, actually provided the prosecution and thankfully we got
28:04
Speaker 2: more information from him of what actually took place. Otherwise,
28:07
Speaker 2: it would be a more of a guessing game. But
28:09
Speaker 2: he actually gave us what happened to Michael Walcoltz, and
28:15
Speaker 2: he said that walcaults when this was when he was
28:18
Speaker 2: being tortured, when he was going through this hell on earth.
28:22
Speaker 2: He screamed at Steven Lorenzo, this is not consensual. Anybody
28:28
Speaker 2: tries to play they were playing a sex game and
28:30
Speaker 2: it went too far. Just to be crystal clear. Scott Schweikert,
28:34
Speaker 2: who was there when it happened, said this man knew
28:37
Speaker 2: what was happening to him and said, this is not consensual.
28:41
Speaker 2: The other part, Joe, I have from watching television shows
28:45
Speaker 2: and movies. I thought GHB was not detectable in the
28:50
Speaker 2: body within a matter of hours, within like twelve hours
28:53
Speaker 2: or whatever. I thought it was cleared out of the
28:55
Speaker 2: body and you couldn't find it. Is that not true?
28:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. And because it metabolizes very very quickly
29:00
Speaker 1: and kind of exits the body, I think that there
29:03
Speaker 1: are any number of people that are out there that
29:07
Speaker 1: kind of labor under this delusion that you can test
29:11
Speaker 1: for it and find it in a very short period
29:13
Speaker 1: of time. Now, if the person dies before the drug
29:17
Speaker 1: is actually metabolized, and exits the body, you're going to
29:20
Speaker 1: have a better shot at it. So how long did
29:22
Speaker 1: this go on? Post application of the drug? And it
29:26
Speaker 1: does kind of wear off pretty quickly, but it leaves
29:30
Speaker 1: you in a state of misremembering things or not just
29:34
Speaker 1: losing huge blocks of time of your life where you
29:38
Speaker 1: can't account for what had happened. In these cases like this,
29:42
Speaker 1: where these fellows that did survive, in fact, they're going
29:46
Speaker 1: to wake up and they're going to have pain throughout
29:48
Speaker 1: their body because they've been abused. And I don't have
29:51
Speaker 1: to go into gorey detail about that, but you can
29:53
Speaker 1: only imagine some of the pain that they would be
29:55
Speaker 1: experiencing and they don't have any explanation for it. And
29:59
Speaker 1: it might go back to the bar. And I think
30:01
Speaker 1: many times that victims like this are embarrassed. You know,
30:05
Speaker 1: they're embarrassed to want to go back and say, hey,
30:09
Speaker 1: did you see me leave here with somebody last night,
30:12
Speaker 1: because it gives you the impression that they were not
30:16
Speaker 1: in control of themselves. They were that easily influenced, where
30:20
Speaker 1: it's not their person being influenced, it's this drug that's
30:24
Speaker 1: acting upon them. Now, we'll take samples of various tissues
30:29
Speaker 1: to see if we can find evidence muscle in particular.
30:32
Speaker 1: But when you get a body that is so compromised
30:36
Speaker 1: by decomposition, I think that it would be quite the
30:40
Speaker 1: climb for any practitioner to try to determine if GHB
30:44
Speaker 1: is on board, and the odds are against you. I'll
30:46
Speaker 1: put it to you that way, most of the time
30:49
Speaker 1: GHB is going to be picked up on if I
30:52
Speaker 1: remember correctly, through the urine, and urine is the best
30:55
Speaker 1: sample to go through and to try to find it
30:58
Speaker 1: that way, so you don't know if it would have
31:00
Speaker 1: been expelled from the body or what would have happened.
31:03
Speaker 1: But to that point, I think that even though you
31:06
Speaker 1: have this GHB on board, and this is what I
31:11
Speaker 1: was talking about relative to a torture event, you have
31:14
Speaker 1: these two fellows in particular that are being asphyxiated Dave,
31:19
Speaker 1: and you can see this even with someone that is
31:22
Speaker 1: in a drug state. Your body is going to react.
31:26
Speaker 1: You know that primal brain is going to kick in
31:28
Speaker 1: and you'll begin to struggle for air and you will fight,
31:31
Speaker 1: you'll resist, And I think that that's where this sadistic
31:35
Speaker 1: element comes in. You sit back and whether it's a
31:40
Speaker 1: literature around the throat or whether it's a bag over
31:43
Speaker 1: the head, you will see this individual react to deprivation
31:47
Speaker 1: of oxygen and it's a horrible thing. I'm just so
31:50
Speaker 1: thankful that this person is off the street as well
31:55
Speaker 1: as his compatriot, because, as it turns out, Lorenzo has
32:00
Speaker 1: already been convicted of, you know, raping and torturing nine
32:05
Speaker 1: men and has a federal sentence of I think two
32:08
Speaker 1: hundred years, is that correct.
32:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was sentenced to the two hundred years in prison.
32:13
Speaker 2: And for many people, you think, well, he's done, we
32:15
Speaker 2: don't have to worry. Well, there's still family left that
32:18
Speaker 2: needs justice for their loved one. In this particular case,
32:21
Speaker 2: we have two young men who were murdered that their
32:25
Speaker 2: families are still suffering because of what Steve Lorenzo did.
32:29
Speaker 2: It took many, many years to get Steven Lorenzo in
32:32
Speaker 2: court to be tried, convicted, and sentenced in the cases
32:37
Speaker 2: of Jason Galehouse and Michael Walkoll's.
32:39
Speaker 1: And when that did happen, Dave, I think that it
32:43
Speaker 1: was for families. There's no replacing, you know, those that
32:47
Speaker 1: you love. But just for a moment in time, the
32:52
Speaker 1: family members of these victims actually had a chance to
32:57
Speaker 1: stand in court old Lorenzo what he had robbed them of,
33:03
Speaker 1: and to tell the court that Lorenzo no longer deserved
33:07
Speaker 1: to be among us. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this
33:15
Speaker 1: is Bodybacks