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Can Cardinals depth keep them afloat in June? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:07
Speaker 1: It's Sunday, June.
0:08
Speaker 2: First, the Saint Louis Cardinals finished May with a nineteen
0:11
Speaker 2: and eight record, that's the best record in baseball during
0:14
Speaker 2: that month, and they followed it up by starting in
0:16
Speaker 2: June with a clunker and ate one loss to the Rangers.
0:19
Speaker 2: They dropped the series in Arlington. I'm Katie rub that's
0:23
Speaker 2: Erning Michless. Welcome back to Cardinal territories. I'm coming to
0:26
Speaker 2: your live from Dallas left field. Bernie's coming to your
0:28
Speaker 2: life from Saint Louis.
0:29
Speaker 1: Bernie. How's your weekend?
0:32
Speaker 3: My weekend was fine. I feel bad for you, you know,
0:34
Speaker 3: scrambling around, man, you bring it. You're bringing back bad
0:37
Speaker 3: memories of you. You're sitting at the at Dallas Fort
0:41
Speaker 3: Worth Airport and uh, you know you're about ready to
0:44
Speaker 3: go into that little I could point, you could point
0:46
Speaker 3: to it if I could get there's a there's something
0:49
Speaker 3: canteena over your as I see you your left shoulder. Yeah,
0:53
Speaker 3: I think of Margarite is in your future?
0:55
Speaker 1: Perhaps the double? Who's to say?
0:59
Speaker 3: I don't blame you, but you know everything's fine.
1:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, wasn't It wasn't a great series for the
1:05
Speaker 2: Cardinals in Texas.
1:05
Speaker 1: I thought it was a fine roach of going three
1:07
Speaker 1: and three in the Interleague series.
1:08
Speaker 2: Who obviously wanted to come out of Sunday with the
1:10
Speaker 2: wind heading into an off day. But it was just,
1:13
Speaker 2: you know, a flat series, and they mid one eight
1:15
Speaker 2: of their last ten series coming into this one. For
1:17
Speaker 2: whatever reason, they never really seem to play well in Arlington.
1:20
Speaker 2: Call it the curse of the twenty eleven World Series. Uh,
1:23
Speaker 2: but I'm very confident this Cardinals club can flush it
1:26
Speaker 2: and move towards June and what will be an inserrative
1:29
Speaker 2: month for them. Some minor transactions first though, as we know,
1:32
Speaker 2: on Saturday, Jordan Walker went on the ten day il
1:35
Speaker 2: was sitting left brisk inflammation. Bernie the good news here
1:38
Speaker 2: has been talking to Mayor drawing Marble. It doesn't sound
1:40
Speaker 2: like this is anything serious. This is retroactive to May
1:43
Speaker 2: twenty ninth, so he would be eligible, I believe, to
1:46
Speaker 2: come back off the interlast on June.
1:48
Speaker 1: Eighth if all is feeling well.
1:50
Speaker 2: It was just a matter of not being able to
1:52
Speaker 2: use him for a couple of days and the Cardinals
1:53
Speaker 2: meeting that roster flexibility. So Ryan Valad is up, He'll
1:56
Speaker 2: get in some so that that's against Lefty's and just
2:00
Speaker 2: kind of here for a depth piece. The Cardinals don't
2:02
Speaker 2: expect Jordan walkerty to rehab assignment when he does return,
2:05
Speaker 2: so it looks like and sounds like this.
2:07
Speaker 1: Won't be super long.
2:08
Speaker 2: We'll keep our fingers crossed for that, because over the
2:11
Speaker 2: last ten days or so, Jordan Walker had showed some
2:13
Speaker 2: pretty encouraging signs of turning it around.
2:15
Speaker 3: Oh, no doubt about it. Like his you know, I
2:17
Speaker 3: think it went back thirteen games. Maybe you know. I
2:19
Speaker 3: was doing some numbers and his well, first of all,
2:23
Speaker 3: just his RBI production and his power and his batting
2:28
Speaker 3: average with runners in scoring position was insanely good. And
2:32
Speaker 3: he had all of these hits that were left to
2:34
Speaker 3: bat at one hundred miles per hour plus and his
2:38
Speaker 3: bat speeds out of this world. So he's still striking
2:41
Speaker 3: out too much. But the point is you're looking for
2:44
Speaker 3: any signs of progress, and he showed We all recognize
2:48
Speaker 3: that the plate discipline is still an issue, so I'm
2:51
Speaker 3: not papering over that, but you wanted to see something
2:54
Speaker 3: a little oomph, and he showed a lot of that
2:57
Speaker 3: basically over the last two weeks before he got hurt.
3:00
Speaker 3: So that was one of the to me, that was
3:02
Speaker 3: one of the real positive things in May. And after all,
3:06
Speaker 3: they had a lot of positives in May because they
3:08
Speaker 3: had the best record in the Majors in May. You know,
3:11
Speaker 3: it was in nineteen and eight. So I'm looking at
3:17
Speaker 3: this series real quick on this is Listen. You know,
3:20
Speaker 3: the Cardinals since April going into today, since April thirtieth,
3:25
Speaker 3: had the best record in the Major leagues, and the
3:27
Speaker 3: month of May they had the best record in the
3:29
Speaker 3: Major Leagues. And we also knew when they were going
3:32
Speaker 3: into Texas, we also knew they were going to run
3:35
Speaker 3: into a great, great, great set of starting pitchers. Even
3:39
Speaker 3: Patrick Corbin's been pitching great this year. They have the
3:42
Speaker 3: best rotation E r A wise and the Major So
3:46
Speaker 3: we knew they were probably going to have to scratch
3:47
Speaker 3: for runs that I think they would score more than
3:50
Speaker 3: four and three games. Yeah, but I didn't think. I
3:52
Speaker 3: didn't think we were going to have a barrage of offense.
3:55
Speaker 3: And it was just one of those series. But you
3:57
Speaker 3: nailed it, you know, three and three on the road trip.
4:00
Speaker 3: I think that's always a reasonable expectation, you know, for
4:03
Speaker 3: a team. So now you know, now they come home
4:07
Speaker 3: and they're gonna have to face really, they're gonna have
4:09
Speaker 3: to fight excuse me, face more really good pitching with
4:12
Speaker 3: the Kansas City Royals, who they're not easy to beat
4:15
Speaker 3: either because they pitched so well.
4:17
Speaker 2: No, I mean, you think about what that series was
4:18
Speaker 2: like at Coffin Stadium in May. That was one of
4:20
Speaker 2: their best series they've played all season. Very tight ball club,
4:24
Speaker 2: very well pitched, like you mentioned, and you know, I
4:26
Speaker 2: do want to go back to that Ranger starting pitching.
4:28
Speaker 2: I mean, they were really good jeck Lighters, legit. We
4:31
Speaker 2: all know about Jacob de Gram and Patrick Corbyn is
4:33
Speaker 2: having a turnaround year. So it's great to see for
4:35
Speaker 2: Patrick Corbyn who's really struggled over the last couple of years.
4:38
Speaker 2: And I know we're going to get into the Cardinals
4:39
Speaker 2: offense later in the show. Bernie, I know you have
4:41
Speaker 2: some numbers you want to point out, but was I
4:44
Speaker 2: surprised from this performance a little bit, especially today, just
4:47
Speaker 2: because I thought the seventh and the eighth inning was
4:49
Speaker 2: a little sloppy compared to the Cardinals defense and situational
4:52
Speaker 2: awareness that we've seen. But when you think about how
4:55
Speaker 2: May went down, what this team did, the style of
4:58
Speaker 2: games they played. Again, like we that they won eight
5:00
Speaker 2: of their last ten series, they were due for a
5:03
Speaker 2: series that just kind of felt pretty whatever. And that's
5:05
Speaker 2: how I felt this weekend, when we'll get a much
5:08
Speaker 2: better test to what the Cardinals look like in this
5:10
Speaker 2: upcoming nine game homestand three against the Royals, three against
5:14
Speaker 2: the Dodgers, so that'll be a big one, and three
5:16
Speaker 2: against Torontos.
5:17
Speaker 1: These are all three very ligit clubs.
5:19
Speaker 2: I'm under the impression that I think we can grant
5:21
Speaker 2: the Cardinals the affordability to flush the series against Texas,
5:25
Speaker 2: but I mentioned to see how they respond, especially knowing
5:28
Speaker 2: just what their.
5:29
Speaker 1: Schedule looks like in June.
5:30
Speaker 2: You know, I think they have two off days in
5:32
Speaker 2: the entire month, so we'll see.
5:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I was disappointed because, first of all, we've
5:37
Speaker 3: seen them beat some really, really outstanding starting pitchers, so
5:42
Speaker 3: I thought that they had a fighting chance to win
5:44
Speaker 3: two out of three there, even though they were going
5:46
Speaker 3: up against a couple guys are really red hot right now.
5:48
Speaker 3: But maybe the thing that disappointed me was Katie, was
5:52
Speaker 3: that you know, they didn't have but Friday's game was
5:56
Speaker 3: out of reach. Don't get me wrong, they had a
5:59
Speaker 3: chance to do so damage against the Rangers bullpen on Sunday,
6:02
Speaker 3: and they didn't do it. So it wasn't just the
6:04
Speaker 3: starting pitchers. They didn't do anything against their relievers either.
6:07
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean they hit one sixty one for
6:10
Speaker 3: the series, and they had more strikeouts and base hits.
6:13
Speaker 3: So that's not good. You're not going to do too well. Actually,
6:17
Speaker 3: and I'm going to sound like a Homer and I'm
6:18
Speaker 3: not actually given how poorly they hit, and to your point,
6:22
Speaker 3: the defense was not to the usual standard. Uh, they
6:28
Speaker 3: actually they actually did well to get one game there.
6:31
Speaker 3: I mean, they really did if you think about.
6:34
Speaker 2: It, right, ten strikeouts from Sonny Gray is what it took.
6:38
Speaker 3: Right, So I'm not overreacting to it. But you know,
6:41
Speaker 3: I do have we'll talk about this, you know, in
6:44
Speaker 3: this in this this video, but I do have some
6:48
Speaker 3: concerns about the offense going forward, and we can get
6:50
Speaker 3: into that whenever you want to get into that.
6:52
Speaker 1: Well, let's segue to it right now.
6:53
Speaker 2: First a quick message from Arena Club and then we'll
6:55
Speaker 2: get Bernie's takes on the offense I for when.
6:57
Speaker 1: I'm very interested about that.
7:00
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7:04
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7:06
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7:09
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7:16
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7:17
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7:20
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7:20
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7:24
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7:27
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7:34
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7:36
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7:37
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7:40
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Speaker 3: Code foul.
8:01
Speaker 1: Again.
8:01
Speaker 2: That was from our friends at Arena Club. All right, Bernie,
8:04
Speaker 2: as we know on this show, there is nothing you
8:06
Speaker 2: do better, and you do a lot of things well
8:08
Speaker 2: then numbers and stats, and I want to take a
8:10
Speaker 2: deeper dive into the Saint Louis Cardinals offense, which remains
8:14
Speaker 2: I think one of the better offensive in the National League.
8:16
Speaker 2: But as I'm sure you're about to point out, there
8:18
Speaker 2: are some reasons for concern.
8:20
Speaker 1: What do you got They've had.
8:21
Speaker 3: Too many low scoring games. And again it's okay, you
8:25
Speaker 3: can't expect your pitchers to hold the other side to
8:27
Speaker 3: one or two runs every time either, you know, they
8:31
Speaker 3: they have those big blowouts where they score eleven or whatever.
8:34
Speaker 3: But let me just let me go over this. So
8:36
Speaker 3: the last fourteen games, the Cardinals are eight and six,
8:40
Speaker 3: and they've averaged three and a half runs per game.
8:42
Speaker 3: They're batting average after today of pray Bee in the
8:45
Speaker 3: two thirties. Their own base percentage is under three hundred,
8:49
Speaker 3: and they're slugging is just pretty much shot. They're even
8:54
Speaker 3: slowing down in terms of hitting doubles. They've only hit
8:58
Speaker 3: they've hit nine home runs during the last fourteen games,
9:01
Speaker 3: and the doubles of Dip two. But what concerns me
9:05
Speaker 3: about it is if you look at during this stretch,
9:08
Speaker 3: they've scored one run or no runs, including today, in
9:13
Speaker 3: six of the fourteen games, right, I mean that's nearly
9:19
Speaker 3: half the games. I mean that's to no one's surprised
9:24
Speaker 3: whatsoever their record. When they score one run in those games,
9:28
Speaker 3: I think they got they maybe no, they didn't get
9:31
Speaker 3: away with any of They're like oh and oh and
9:34
Speaker 3: six in those games. So yeah, I mean I could
9:37
Speaker 3: understand where you have some days where you score three
9:39
Speaker 3: runs and I have some days where you just score two.
9:41
Speaker 3: But when you're nearly like half your games the last
9:44
Speaker 3: fourteen you're scoring only one run or nothing, that's got
9:48
Speaker 3: to change, you know, that really has to change. And
9:51
Speaker 3: the last fourteen games, because of the offense slowing down
9:54
Speaker 3: the pitch, the pitchers have had Still, I still think
9:58
Speaker 3: they've done well. They're actually like their run differential because
10:03
Speaker 3: our offense has been so bad, is like a minus
10:06
Speaker 3: eight over the last fourteen games. So my point is
10:09
Speaker 3: that they're kind of trending in the wrong direction. Now.
10:14
Speaker 3: I'm also I have perspective, and I also know that
10:17
Speaker 3: some of this downturn was inevitable, just like the team's
10:21
Speaker 3: overall record is going to have a downturn because you
10:25
Speaker 3: don't play seven hundred baseball for like three months in
10:27
Speaker 3: a row. I mean, you know there's going to be
10:30
Speaker 3: some leveling off, But I think the offense is the
10:33
Speaker 3: thing that's kind of got my attention. Now. You know,
10:35
Speaker 3: I won't go into numbers, but just trust me on this.
10:38
Speaker 3: Like Victor Scott's production in May was way down, and
10:43
Speaker 3: nothing good happen today. Nolan Iron out of He's had
10:45
Speaker 3: some fine moments, but in the month of May he
10:50
Speaker 3: had two twenty one, we had a two sixty nine
10:52
Speaker 3: on base percentage, and then very little power. And then
10:55
Speaker 3: you just add today to that, and then they're not
10:57
Speaker 3: getting much offense out of the catcher position. And even
11:01
Speaker 3: Avon Herrera, my guy, he's slowed down. He's got one
11:05
Speaker 3: extra base in his last fourteen games, you know, and
11:08
Speaker 3: so he even he's in a downturn. So the good
11:12
Speaker 3: news is they have a lot of guys that are
11:14
Speaker 3: hitting above average since the beginning of May, even with
11:17
Speaker 3: all of these one run games in there. But they're
11:19
Speaker 3: gonna have to turn that around. They're just gonna have
11:21
Speaker 3: to be more competitive in They're gonna have to be
11:25
Speaker 3: more competitive in more games than they've been lately offensively.
11:30
Speaker 2: So I think I'm really glad you brought this up
11:32
Speaker 2: because I think this is part of the bigger picture
11:35
Speaker 2: for the Cardinals this year. This is, as we know,
11:37
Speaker 2: a transition season, and a lot of these guys are,
11:41
Speaker 2: especially these younger guys, are getting a full run at
11:43
Speaker 2: playing time consistently for the first time, which means the
11:47
Speaker 2: league is for the first time having an ability to
11:50
Speaker 2: see them consistently and adjust himself. So I'm really glad
11:53
Speaker 2: you brought u Victor Scott the second because this is
11:55
Speaker 2: what I think we're seeing.
11:56
Speaker 1: Victor Scott came up, he had some things figured out in.
11:59
Speaker 2: April offensive we know the glove's not going anywhere, but
12:01
Speaker 2: from a back standpoint, then May things took a turn
12:05
Speaker 2: because the league was adjusting to him. Now it's Victor's
12:08
Speaker 2: turn to adjust back to the league. We saw this
12:10
Speaker 2: with Alec Burlison, who in The Athletic last week said,
12:14
Speaker 2: we know how Alec Burlison's April went.
12:16
Speaker 1: It was not good. He was hitting the ball much
12:18
Speaker 1: better against rieties than May, and that's because he's had
12:21
Speaker 1: an ability to adjust back to the league.
12:23
Speaker 2: He talked about this. He said, my contact rate and
12:26
Speaker 2: my ability to put the ball in the bat is
12:28
Speaker 2: like my superpower. And that's the hitting coach Brant Brown
12:30
Speaker 2: calls it, because but what good does it do to
12:32
Speaker 2: swing at pitches I can't do damage with? And pitchers
12:34
Speaker 2: knew that I would swing at pictures or pitches I
12:36
Speaker 2: could do damage with. So I had to adjust. He
12:39
Speaker 2: they to their game strategy. Now I'm only looking at
12:41
Speaker 2: damaged pitches only, so for players like Victor Scott, for
12:45
Speaker 2: players like Yvon Herrera, for players even like Mason Winn.
12:48
Speaker 2: Still there are going to be these times, these hills
12:51
Speaker 2: and peaks and valleys where the league is adjusting to
12:54
Speaker 2: them and they have to learn to adjust back. So
12:56
Speaker 2: I think this ties in perfectly to what you're seeing
12:58
Speaker 2: with the offense, because these guys were swinging about really well,
13:01
Speaker 2: they were figuring out ways to get on base, doing
13:03
Speaker 2: things differently, and now the league has figured out what
13:06
Speaker 2: their game plan is and it's this constant back and
13:08
Speaker 2: forth adjustments that's one of the underlying causes of this
13:11
Speaker 2: transition season. And I think we're seeing that represented in
13:13
Speaker 2: the bats right now.
13:14
Speaker 3: Right And so I think the way I would put
13:17
Speaker 3: it is that we have to you know, just like
13:20
Speaker 3: the Cardinals hitters have to adjust. You know, I think
13:23
Speaker 3: those of us who follow the team, whether it be
13:25
Speaker 3: fans of media, I think we have to adjust too.
13:27
Speaker 3: And what that means is simply, there's just listen. This
13:31
Speaker 3: team has been a delightful surprise. I went back because
13:34
Speaker 3: I was curious. I wanted to see some of the
13:35
Speaker 3: preseason rankings, and the first one I found was fine
13:39
Speaker 3: because it was indicative of what a lot of national
13:44
Speaker 3: outlets were saying. But the Cardinals were in the preseason
13:49
Speaker 3: power ratings at ESPN were twenty fifth, twenty fifth, and
13:53
Speaker 3: they entered today with the eighth best winning percentage in
13:56
Speaker 3: the majors. So listen, that's wonderful. But it was always
14:01
Speaker 3: going to be a question about sustainability. And you know,
14:05
Speaker 3: when you look at you look at where they've been
14:08
Speaker 3: and let me just look at my notear here real quick,
14:10
Speaker 3: and I apologize. You know, since since April thirtieth, they've
14:15
Speaker 3: been playing seven to twenty four baseball going into today.
14:19
Speaker 3: The Dodgers don't Yeah, the Dodgers don't sustain that. No,
14:22
Speaker 3: no one sustains it, right, No one sustains that, so
14:26
Speaker 3: I would hope. I mean, fans can do whatever they
14:29
Speaker 3: want or feel how wherever they want, but let's not
14:31
Speaker 3: go I've pointed out some of the problems with the offense, okay,
14:35
Speaker 3: which I think is the fair and the right thing
14:38
Speaker 3: to do, just to express some concern. But I just
14:41
Speaker 3: hope people don't start to freak out and you know,
14:44
Speaker 3: just start hammering everybody again, like as if we're going
14:47
Speaker 3: back to the offseason and everyone must go and all this,
14:50
Speaker 3: and and I'm exaggerating for effect, but I think I
14:53
Speaker 3: think we've got to maintain a little perspective here. They
14:56
Speaker 3: weren't going to play seven to twenty four ball, you know,
14:59
Speaker 3: for a lot long period of time. They did it
15:01
Speaker 3: for over a month, but nor were they as bad
15:04
Speaker 3: as they looked when they got off to a ten
15:06
Speaker 3: and fifteenth start either, Right, See, the answer is somewhere
15:09
Speaker 3: in the middle. So let's just make sure we keep
15:12
Speaker 3: some perspective on this. That would be my message, Not
15:15
Speaker 3: that anyone ask me for my message, but that's what
15:17
Speaker 3: it would be.
15:18
Speaker 1: Well, I disagree.
15:19
Speaker 2: We have thankfully many subscribers who come on to hear
15:22
Speaker 2: your messaging, so I think that's it, I think you're right, though,
15:26
Speaker 2: Let's say June goes. Look, let me just pull up
15:29
Speaker 2: the stat for you, guys. The Cardinals have twenty eight
15:32
Speaker 2: games in their next twenty nine days. They have two
15:34
Speaker 2: scheduled off days in the entire month of June, one
15:37
Speaker 2: being tomorrow, So after June second, there is one off
15:40
Speaker 2: day that entire month. If June goes halfway between April,
15:46
Speaker 2: which they were eleven and sixteen in April and not
15:48
Speaker 2: County March in that and May, which, as we said
15:52
Speaker 2: nineteen to eight, if the Cardinals are right in there
15:54
Speaker 2: in June, given their schedule, given the fact that you
15:57
Speaker 2: know they are going to have to work in off
15:58
Speaker 2: days for a lot of their stars, there's not going
16:01
Speaker 2: to be that rotating off day that we had every
16:02
Speaker 2: Thursday in May.
16:04
Speaker 1: Do you take that?
16:05
Speaker 2: I given where the Cardinals are and the cushion that
16:08
Speaker 2: they've given themselves in May with their superb play, if
16:11
Speaker 2: the Cardinals are somewhere in the middle of April and
16:14
Speaker 2: May in June, I'm okay with that because that still
16:17
Speaker 2: sets them up really well to go into July. And
16:20
Speaker 2: that's a whole different conversation about July and the trade
16:22
Speaker 2: deadline in the future, and we don't we're not going
16:24
Speaker 2: to get into that on this episode, but I'm okay
16:26
Speaker 2: with that. I still think that's an interesting season and
16:28
Speaker 2: a good place to be for this club.
16:31
Speaker 3: Right And you know, and as much concern as I
16:34
Speaker 3: have over the offense, the pitching, there's always some concern.
16:39
Speaker 3: And you just pointed out it's a heavy duty schedule
16:42
Speaker 3: in June, so these guys will be challenged, like they
16:46
Speaker 3: really haven't been challenged so far this season with no
16:49
Speaker 3: breaks barring rainouts or Yeah, So there's gonna be a
16:55
Speaker 3: lot of stress put on the starters. They're going to
16:57
Speaker 3: be working on like kind of normal rest. They're having
17:00
Speaker 3: that extra day, and it'll put more stress I think
17:04
Speaker 3: on the bullpen, and I think it's gonna it's not
17:07
Speaker 3: gonna put stress on Ali Marmel or Dusty Blake, but
17:11
Speaker 3: they're also going to have to be very quick on
17:14
Speaker 3: their feet and figuring out like on the fly. Okay,
17:18
Speaker 3: we've got to change these two relievers out and get
17:21
Speaker 3: someone else up here. There's a by the way, I
17:23
Speaker 3: don't I don't, you know, I'd be okay if they don't,
17:26
Speaker 3: you know, use Roddery Muno's I'd.
17:29
Speaker 1: Be okay with that, but no so.
17:33
Speaker 3: But you know, if you go back to when they
17:35
Speaker 3: retooled this bullpen on the fly, you know it was
17:37
Speaker 3: on that off day after that series in Atlanta. You know,
17:41
Speaker 3: they have the second best bullpenny lay in the majors,
17:43
Speaker 3: and nothing that went on in this series other than
17:46
Speaker 3: the garbage innings really affected that. They're they're key guys.
17:49
Speaker 3: I do have a little concern about Kyle Lahey. He's
17:52
Speaker 3: not striking people out. He's I mean, like, his strikeout
17:55
Speaker 3: rate was nearly thirty percent up until I'm estimating this
18:00
Speaker 3: the last two two and a half weeks, and the
18:02
Speaker 3: strikeout rates really low, and I think we're seeing some
18:05
Speaker 3: vulnerability there. The bullpen as a whole, I really like it,
18:08
Speaker 3: but I'm just saying I think we also have to
18:10
Speaker 3: recalibrate perhaps what we should expect from Kyle Lahey. I
18:15
Speaker 3: don't think he can be superman the way he has been,
18:18
Speaker 3: and I don't know whether the workload was too much,
18:21
Speaker 3: but that's another thing I keep an eye on. But yeah,
18:24
Speaker 3: the good news is that overall, though they're pitching is
18:27
Speaker 3: in good shape, it really is, but there is a
18:30
Speaker 3: bigger test in the month of June, so let's see
18:32
Speaker 3: what they do. But there's still a lot of things
18:34
Speaker 3: to like. Their defense is outstanding. Again, They're in a
18:39
Speaker 3: little bit of a sloppy rut here. First of all,
18:42
Speaker 3: they were playing in bad weather in Baltimore for two
18:44
Speaker 3: of those three days, and I can understand that. And right,
18:49
Speaker 3: and then you know the Texas saying, I don't know
18:50
Speaker 3: what to say. They're better than that, but they're going
18:53
Speaker 3: to rise back to their level. I mean they did
18:55
Speaker 3: all of a sudden just because they've had a little
18:57
Speaker 3: slip defensively. It doesn't mean all of a sudden they're
19:00
Speaker 3: great defense all year was just some kind of mirage
19:03
Speaker 3: or something. They're a very good defensive team.
19:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I said, I think this was just the
19:09
Speaker 2: course of one hundred and sixty two game season. Every
19:11
Speaker 2: now and then you're going to have a series in
19:13
Speaker 2: which you just don't play well.
19:15
Speaker 1: And I just didn't think the Cardinals played that well
19:17
Speaker 1: this weekend.
19:17
Speaker 2: I don't think that's I don't think they're regressing to
19:20
Speaker 2: the mean by any means. I think their their body
19:23
Speaker 2: of work over one third of the season already, which
19:26
Speaker 2: is crazy that we are one third of the way
19:28
Speaker 2: through the season says much more about their defense and
19:30
Speaker 2: pitching than this three game in the league series in Texas.
19:34
Speaker 2: But you make a really good point about the bullpen, Bernie,
19:36
Speaker 2: and this is something that I want to talk about
19:39
Speaker 2: with you, because when we go back to Bush Stadium
19:42
Speaker 2: on June third, let me count, we'll get one, two, three, six,
19:48
Speaker 2: thirteen games before and off day. And what we've known
19:52
Speaker 2: about this Cardinal starting rotation is being on a six
19:56
Speaker 2: day rest schedule and utilizing the hybrid role of Stephen
20:00
Speaker 2: Mattz really helped them. And in April and May they
20:03
Speaker 2: didn't need to do that because of the off day.
20:05
Speaker 2: Remember they had an op date in almost every single
20:07
Speaker 2: Thursday of the month of May.
20:09
Speaker 1: June they won't have that. So what the Cardinals are
20:12
Speaker 1: trying to balance.
20:12
Speaker 2: Right now is how do we keep our pictures healthy
20:16
Speaker 2: and keep them on track and work in a rest day.
20:19
Speaker 2: And given how Steven Mattz has done in the bullpen
20:22
Speaker 2: for them has been huge and part of their bullpen
20:25
Speaker 2: success that we talked about, isn't best for the club
20:28
Speaker 2: to take him out of that spot. I'm leaning no,
20:31
Speaker 2: I'm leaning no, I don't know what you do with
20:33
Speaker 2: that bullpen. If you take Stephen, Matt's out to be
20:36
Speaker 2: a spot starter because all of a sudden he's not
20:39
Speaker 2: usable for two or three days as he goes in
20:40
Speaker 2: to take that spot start, and then you have to
20:43
Speaker 2: backfill a bullpen that's already kind of regressing a little bit.
20:47
Speaker 1: You know.
20:47
Speaker 2: I think Gordon and Grisceva will be fine. We'll see
20:49
Speaker 2: him again, but they don't really have someone. While Joe
20:52
Speaker 2: Jo Romero and Johnsony have looked better, they don't have
20:55
Speaker 2: someone from the left side that can go and do
20:56
Speaker 2: what Matts did. So what do you do here? I
21:00
Speaker 2: don't think they should take him out of that role.
21:02
Speaker 2: My speculation. I wonder if this is a good time
21:05
Speaker 2: to see Michael McGreevey take another spot start.
21:08
Speaker 3: You nailed it, I mean one hundred percent. I don't
21:10
Speaker 3: need to repeat what you just said because you're right
21:11
Speaker 3: on it. That's how I was thinking too. I would
21:14
Speaker 3: keep matching the bullpen, Yeah, we do. I would keep
21:17
Speaker 3: matching the bullpen. And I know, was it today? Yeah?
21:20
Speaker 3: Today he got there. It was whatever. You know, he's
21:24
Speaker 3: good and he's he's done a pretty effective job against
21:27
Speaker 3: right handed hitters and he's a veteran, you know, he's poised.
21:32
Speaker 3: You don't have to worry about him, you know, freaking
21:34
Speaker 3: out out there. So let me this way, just to
21:37
Speaker 3: echo what you said and add something. If this isn't
21:40
Speaker 3: a month to put Michael McGreevy in your rotation, then
21:46
Speaker 3: I really don't know what scenario would qualify as Oh,
21:51
Speaker 3: this is the time we should put him in the rotation.
21:53
Speaker 3: This is clearly the opportune time to do that, right,
21:57
Speaker 3: and then that way you don't weaken your bullpen. And
22:00
Speaker 3: as you pointed out, so yeah, they have some decisions
22:04
Speaker 3: to make. Listen, I think the dougout's been really, really,
22:07
Speaker 3: really smart this year. I'm assuming they're gonna come up
22:10
Speaker 3: with the with the right plan. If they don't, uh oh,
22:15
Speaker 3: I guess I'm gonna have to go back to ripping
22:18
Speaker 3: Ali a little bit. You know, they don't. If they don't,
22:20
Speaker 3: if they don't bring McGreevy up, you know, because you know,
22:23
Speaker 3: I know, really I just feel that to me, it's
22:25
Speaker 3: just such an obvious move.
22:27
Speaker 2: I think so too. Again, it goes back to just
22:29
Speaker 2: how effective Matts has been in relief. It goes back
22:32
Speaker 2: to help imperative that bullpen has been I mean, you
22:34
Speaker 2: have film Aton looking better Ryan Helsley if you had
22:37
Speaker 2: nine saves nine for nine and save opportunities this may
22:40
Speaker 2: and what Matt's has been able to do in the
22:41
Speaker 2: back end has been instrumental to the team's overall success.
22:45
Speaker 2: And I'll put the schedule again because I don't know
22:48
Speaker 2: it off my head, but the Cardinals don't necessarily need to.
22:51
Speaker 2: They can go through the Royal Series. We're gonna have
22:53
Speaker 2: Polante on Tuesday, Miles on Wednesday, Libby on Thursday. I
22:58
Speaker 2: think after that Royal Series is when Ollie Marvel and
23:01
Speaker 2: Dusty Blake make a decision about when do we incorporate
23:04
Speaker 2: a spot starter or if we do. I'm under the
23:06
Speaker 2: belief that they will, because you have Sunny Grave starting
23:09
Speaker 2: for against the Dodgers on that Friday, so the rotation
23:12
Speaker 2: turn is over. You can match up the rotation with
23:15
Speaker 2: Michael mcgreevy's availability, and you can plan it out and
23:18
Speaker 2: start planning a schedule where he takes one, perhaps two
23:21
Speaker 2: spot starts and keeps everybody on turn and you're not
23:24
Speaker 2: messing up his development this way, you're not cutting it shore.
23:27
Speaker 2: You can say, Okay, we're starting a rotation over, here's
23:30
Speaker 2: our number one. Where's McGreevy at with his workload? Where
23:33
Speaker 2: can we slot him in? We have an off day
23:35
Speaker 2: on the.
23:35
Speaker 1: Thirteenth, how can we use that?
23:37
Speaker 2: And it's not you know, it's a little bit of
23:38
Speaker 2: a jigsaw puzzle, but it makes much more sense than
23:41
Speaker 2: pulling out Stephen. Matt's from a place that he's been
23:43
Speaker 2: really good, where they really need him to be, and
23:46
Speaker 2: all of a sudden you have a hole in your
23:48
Speaker 2: bullpen and in your rotation as you wait for him
23:50
Speaker 2: to work back up. You know, he's not stretched out
23:53
Speaker 2: like Michael McGreevey is. He could go what four maybe
23:56
Speaker 2: five if you're lucky, so then you're still short in
23:59
Speaker 2: the bullpen either way. I just think this makes too
24:01
Speaker 2: much sense and I would be very surprised if we
24:03
Speaker 2: do not see some version of Michael mcgreeby in the
24:05
Speaker 2: next two to three weeks. But again the club has
24:08
Speaker 2: not said anything. This is just my speculation based on
24:11
Speaker 2: the scheduling.
24:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, and their next thirteen games. To get back to
24:15
Speaker 3: what you were saying about June, their next thirteen games
24:18
Speaker 3: are really tough as a block because they have, you know,
24:22
Speaker 3: three against the Royals, who can pitch very, very well.
24:26
Speaker 3: The Dodgers need no introduction. Three at home this week,
24:28
Speaker 3: again it's the Dodgers. Toronto's not having a good year,
24:32
Speaker 3: but they have a very dangerous potent offense. And then
24:36
Speaker 3: and then four at Milwaukee, and Milwaukee is making its move.
24:42
Speaker 3: We were all like, right, it was almost like we
24:45
Speaker 3: were looking at well, you know, maybe this isn't going
24:47
Speaker 3: to be the usual Brewers version of devil magic. But
24:52
Speaker 3: they're getting starting pitching back their their bullpen. You know,
24:56
Speaker 3: they've restructured that a little bit. They have a really
24:58
Speaker 3: good offense that team. The Cardinals are Listen, they're now
25:03
Speaker 3: four games behind the Cubs after after Sunday, so they've
25:06
Speaker 3: lost three games in recent times. But the Cubs were
25:09
Speaker 3: beating up on a lot of marshmallows. So I understand that, Marshall.
25:13
Speaker 3: But yeah, but the Cardinals are an interesting situation because
25:19
Speaker 3: it's not it's not just well, first of all, they're
25:20
Speaker 3: going to tell you we just got to take care
25:22
Speaker 3: of our business, and that's absolutely right, but they're losing
25:25
Speaker 3: ground to the Cubs and and oh what's behind this there?
25:28
Speaker 3: Oh Milwaukee's creeping up now, you know, So this is
25:32
Speaker 3: It's going to be very, very interesting because the Cardinals
25:35
Speaker 3: have a four game series at Milwaukee, then they play
25:38
Speaker 3: Cincinnati at home, and then the Cubs come in.
25:41
Speaker 1: For four the first time. We have not seen the
25:44
Speaker 1: Cubs all year, so this is big for the division.
25:46
Speaker 3: So needless to say. And then after that, who do
25:49
Speaker 3: they have? They have the White Sox and I don't
25:51
Speaker 3: know they it levels.
25:52
Speaker 1: Off of and Cleveland. I think you and.
25:56
Speaker 3: Cleveland's really really good too. But anyway, this is such
25:59
Speaker 3: a cliche, but it's so true. Uh, We're going to
26:03
Speaker 3: know so much more about the Cardinals at.
26:05
Speaker 1: The end of June, right, yep, exactly who they are.
26:10
Speaker 3: We've we've already discovered a lot of things, a lot
26:13
Speaker 3: of good things. But now we're gonna just they have
26:16
Speaker 3: to They're gonna have a they're gonna have a body
26:19
Speaker 3: of schedule that's going to be really challenging, and they're
26:22
Speaker 3: going to be really tested, and we will have addition,
26:26
Speaker 3: we will be making additional discoveries about them. Whether those
26:30
Speaker 3: discoveries are good or bad, you know, it's going to
26:33
Speaker 3: be a very interesting month.
26:35
Speaker 2: And that's what I think makes June. So, I mean,
26:37
Speaker 2: for all the reasons you just said, but what comes
26:39
Speaker 2: after jeloon?
26:43
Speaker 3: You're like, you're like Victor Scott with the younger you know, yeah, Jillu,
26:47
Speaker 3: I like young young, I said, Jullune.
26:51
Speaker 1: I like that?
26:52
Speaker 3: What are you? I gotta work that into a column,
26:55
Speaker 3: you know.
26:55
Speaker 1: Anyway, Oh no, So after June comes July.
26:58
Speaker 2: As we all know, and as we know, in July
27:00
Speaker 2: there is the trade deadline, and I think low and
27:03
Speaker 2: specifically has targeted the month of June as his decision time.
27:07
Speaker 1: We talked about this in April said, we still have
27:10
Speaker 1: six weeks or so.
27:11
Speaker 2: I think when we see this club, especially after that
27:14
Speaker 2: Cub series, around the middle to end of junees we'll
27:17
Speaker 2: have a better indication of how the Cardinals are going
27:19
Speaker 2: to approach the trade deadline, which is so fascinating not
27:21
Speaker 2: just for this year now that they're may be in contention,
27:24
Speaker 2: but what is it going to do for the future.
27:26
Speaker 1: So June we talk about the June swoon all the time.
27:29
Speaker 1: I actually think this.
27:30
Speaker 2: Shoon will be one of the most important Junes that
27:32
Speaker 2: this team plays in a while, because it's not just
27:34
Speaker 2: this season's success on the line, it's the future. And
27:38
Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure what they're going to do. And
27:39
Speaker 2: I don't think they're sure either, but that's okay bringing
27:42
Speaker 2: because they don't have to be right now.
27:44
Speaker 3: And I know we want to wrap things up, but
27:46
Speaker 3: I want to throw one question at you because you
27:48
Speaker 3: did a lot of good reporting on this very topic
27:51
Speaker 3: that was in your piece in The Athletic Friday about
27:54
Speaker 3: Ali Marmel's challenge in terms of distributing played appearances, and
28:02
Speaker 3: there's you know, two levels of that, as you wrote
28:04
Speaker 3: about very very well. You know, there's the thing, okay,
28:06
Speaker 3: where where does the runway sort of sort of get
28:09
Speaker 3: moved to the side and where you have to just
28:11
Speaker 3: try to win And to an extent, you know that's
28:13
Speaker 3: happened already with Nolan Gorman because Alec Burlsson's moved ahead
28:16
Speaker 3: of her. So and you laid that out very nicely,
28:20
Speaker 3: But what I wanted to ask you, now, we know
28:23
Speaker 3: that Jordan Walker is going to be out, and again
28:25
Speaker 3: it's I take them at their word, it's not a
28:27
Speaker 3: major thing, but he still is going to be out.
28:29
Speaker 3: So what does that mean for Nolan Gorman? Even though
28:32
Speaker 3: they play two different positions and one's a right handed
28:35
Speaker 3: hitter and one's a left handed hitter, But Does this
28:37
Speaker 3: mean Nolan Gorman will get a few more whacks? What
28:39
Speaker 3: do you think?
28:41
Speaker 2: Yes, for two reasons. One because of Jordan being out,
28:44
Speaker 2: but he won't be up for very long. And I
28:45
Speaker 2: do think ranval Aide will get at least a couple
28:47
Speaker 2: starts in Jordan's absence. What we're going to see more
28:49
Speaker 2: Norman is because of what we talked about with Peopole
28:53
Speaker 2: two days off in June. The Cardinals were able to
28:55
Speaker 2: play their A team almost every single game because they
28:58
Speaker 2: had an off day every seven days. And you know,
29:00
Speaker 2: players like Nolan, Arnotto, Wilson, contraras Stars, new bar Friend
29:03
Speaker 2: and Donovan, they're not going to ask for another one,
29:05
Speaker 2: so you could play them every single day.
29:07
Speaker 1: That's not going to be the case this month in June.
29:10
Speaker 2: They're going to have to work in a rotation of guys,
29:13
Speaker 2: so that actually creates more opportunity for Mormon. And Gorman
29:17
Speaker 2: is such a streaky hitter. I can't imagine how difficult
29:20
Speaker 2: it is for him to have such limited bats and
29:23
Speaker 2: come in and feel like he has to produce. When
29:24
Speaker 2: Nolan Gorman's got his best, he's on one of his
29:27
Speaker 2: fire tears. We all know what that looks like it's
29:29
Speaker 2: insane to watch. It doesn't happen as much as we'd
29:31
Speaker 2: like it to, but it's going to be really difficult
29:33
Speaker 2: for him to catch fire and such limited opportunities. I
29:36
Speaker 2: think if there's a benefit to this absurd June scheduling,
29:39
Speaker 2: it will be that the Cardinals will have to force
29:41
Speaker 2: in a rotation. They're going to have to get guys
29:43
Speaker 2: off their feet, and they have such a versatile lineup
29:45
Speaker 2: to begin with in terms of putting different players at
29:47
Speaker 2: the dh whether you can put Contreras Burlisten, it can
29:50
Speaker 2: go in the outfield, Donovan can play out over the diamond.
29:52
Speaker 2: There will be a way to get Nolan Gorman back
29:54
Speaker 2: in a semi regular rotation, so that will also help.
29:57
Speaker 2: But I think that's actually a bigger play than Jordan
29:59
Speaker 2: Walker Minor I did.
30:01
Speaker 3: And I think June could be the time, depending on
30:03
Speaker 3: the amount of work that he gets. If if Gorman
30:05
Speaker 3: is going to put it all together, June would be
30:07
Speaker 3: the month. Because I know people get tired of be
30:10
Speaker 3: saying this, and every time I write about it or
30:13
Speaker 3: talk about it in one of my videos, you know,
30:15
Speaker 3: people are like, oh, you got to give you got
30:17
Speaker 3: to give it up with this Gorman stuff. Well, no,
30:19
Speaker 3: I don't actually because the thing that it is and
30:23
Speaker 3: I don't have the updated numbers in front of me.
30:25
Speaker 3: I asked people to trust me because I'm a numbers
30:27
Speaker 3: nerd and all that. But Nolan Gorman, the number one
30:31
Speaker 3: thing that we all put on him, rightfully so is
30:34
Speaker 3: his plate discipline was was horrendous. He has made major
30:38
Speaker 3: strides strides in that area. Strikeout rate is way downs.
30:45
Speaker 3: There you go. I mean his swing miss that you
30:48
Speaker 3: got exactly, His swing swing misrate is way down. His
30:52
Speaker 3: chase rate is at a career low. I mean, these
30:56
Speaker 3: are all really positive trends. They have not translated into production.
31:02
Speaker 3: But he's developed some much better habits at the plate.
31:05
Speaker 3: So common sense tells us that if he's going to
31:08
Speaker 3: break out, given his improved blake discipline, if he gets
31:12
Speaker 3: enough at bets, the time is right, that we will
31:15
Speaker 3: see some things from him. And that's my hope. I
31:18
Speaker 3: feel bad for the guy. I hope he gets gets
31:20
Speaker 3: cranked up because now we got you know, I'm getting
31:22
Speaker 3: emails from fans, well you got to trade him for
31:24
Speaker 3: Pete Fairbanks, you know, and all this other stuff. It's
31:26
Speaker 3: like everybody wants to trade him, you know, and I
31:29
Speaker 3: understand it to an extent, but it's it's still a
31:32
Speaker 3: little too soon, given too soon the dramatic improvement he's
31:36
Speaker 3: made in his plate.
31:36
Speaker 2: Discipline, but we don't get to see from a fan
31:39
Speaker 2: perspective because he's not playing so often, and I think
31:42
Speaker 2: hopefully June will be an opportunity for him to get that.
31:45
Speaker 2: So here what I'm looking for in June, looking for
31:47
Speaker 2: the Cardinals to assert themselves identity wise. I'm looking to
31:50
Speaker 2: see Nolan Gorman's going to get more opportunity, and I'm
31:52
Speaker 2: looking to see Mike McGreevy good at least one spot.
31:55
Speaker 1: Start.
31:56
Speaker 2: Let's see how that goes here as we say here
31:58
Speaker 2: on six twenty pm to you first, let's see great
32:03
Speaker 2: fun as always. I know we got a big homestand
32:06
Speaker 2: coming up, so we'll be back with you at some
32:09
Speaker 2: point next week. I am going to make sure I
32:11
Speaker 2: get margarita before my flight, but make it make it
32:15
Speaker 2: a double yeah, I think so. I think I deserve
32:18
Speaker 2: that absolutely. But for all of our friends at Cardinal Territory,
32:22
Speaker 2: thanks as always for watching. You can get find Bernie everywhere,
32:25
Speaker 2: follow him on Twitter. I strongly strongly encourage while he
32:28
Speaker 2: does so many things well. The noon we talked about
32:32
Speaker 2: this before the noon on Tuesday segment on kmlex Gashouse
32:36
Speaker 2: Game with Olie Marmel is some of the best inside journalism,
32:40
Speaker 2: inside interviews you're going to get in the game Burnage
32:43
Speaker 2: with a fantastic job with Ali and that spot and
32:45
Speaker 2: Cardinal stands. I really encourage you to listen because you're
32:48
Speaker 2: going to see a side that we see of Ali
32:49
Speaker 2: every day.
32:51
Speaker 1: And I think it's so.
32:52
Speaker 2: Much easier to understand where he's coming from in his
32:54
Speaker 2: mindset and thinking things through. And he really does not
32:57
Speaker 2: shy away from any question. So if you're still unsure
33:01
Speaker 2: but where Alling Marble is in a manager, I'm not
33:02
Speaker 2: saying you have to like him. I'm not saying you
33:03
Speaker 2: have to think that he's a good manager. I am
33:06
Speaker 2: saying I think you've probably learned some things about him
33:08
Speaker 2: if you hop on Bernie's show Thats again that's twelve
33:10
Speaker 2: noon to twelve thirty on Tuesday's ATKMOX.
33:14
Speaker 3: And also if you don't mind me plugging him, I
33:16
Speaker 3: write every day and I also do a video every
33:19
Speaker 3: day at sports hub stl dot com and so a lot.
33:24
Speaker 3: I am a one man content farm. I don't need
33:27
Speaker 3: anyone else. I sit here all day and produce whatever.
33:30
Speaker 3: So anyway, I'm I'm glad to be part of Cardinal
33:33
Speaker 3: Territory too. I look forward to that every single time.
33:36
Speaker 1: So I'm weren't grateful for all your work, Bernie. I've
33:38
Speaker 1: been reading you since day one, and I will never stop.
33:42
Speaker 2: So hopefully the month of June brings us even more
33:45
Speaker 2: fun things to write about. May certainly set the bar
33:48
Speaker 2: pretty Hi. All right, Cording Territory fan, I'm setting off,
33:51
Speaker 2: Bernie setting off as well.
33:52
Speaker 1: Thanks for watching, and we'll be back with you next
33:54
Speaker 1: week