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The Columbia Edgewater Country Club Car Bombing · PNW Haunts & Homicides

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: The roof of the buick was blown completely off and
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: hurled several feet away. Shrapnel and twisted metal scattered across
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: the parking lot as smoke, dust and debris filled the air.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Smith was killed immediately. The injuries were catastrophic, leaving no
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: possibility of survival. Within moments, the quiet routine of the
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: country club had been transformed into one of the most
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: shocking crime scenes Portland had ever seen.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Hi Cassie, Hi Caitlin.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Hi creepy people, Oh hellou? And also the guy that
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: just honked outside my window?
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: How I didn't hear it? Dang it, honks and sides.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: This is PNW Hansen Homicides, where we chat about true crime,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: the paranormal, and old.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Things spooky in the Pacific Northwest.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: Or I'm telling you it never gets old for her.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: It doesn't, And if it gets old for you, I
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: frankly don't give a shit. Yeah, Frankly, my dear, I
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: don't give a damn Yeah, because I just need you know,
• 1:22
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• 1:25
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• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Me, all right. Yeah, the universe is kind of like
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: throwing us a lot of other bullshit so.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: A little bit, A little bit. Well, speaking of the universe,
• 1:36
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• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Actually a spoiler alert. I have a new deck. I
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: mean we've had it for a while. I just don't
• 1:50
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• 1:52
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• 1:53
  Speaker 2: So I feel like we used it one time, did we? Yeah?
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Because I remember maybe we got the on with like
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: a drink on it and I didn't know what the
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: drink was. It was like a sprit a Capari sprits.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah like that.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Wow, I know my pay times is random.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, that was like that felt like new old
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: memory unlocked.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: You're welcome.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Look at you remembering. Shit, I couldn't tell you what
• 2:24
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• 2:27
  Speaker 3: No, Well you know what? Have we done a couple
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: hundred of them at this point, so, I mean.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Hard pressed.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do we have any business or should I just
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: get right into it?
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: I don't think we. I don't know if we have
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: any new Patreon subscribers. Probably not since the last time
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: we chatted.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, not to my knowledge.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say, we just we just talked about
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: a couple in our last episode, and yeah, so.
• 2:55
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• 2:57
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• 3:00
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• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Well put, I was gonna say, oh, whatever else we do,
• 3:11
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• 3:13
  Speaker 2: You get a welcome card, you get a free mini
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: tarot reading.
• 3:16
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• 3:19
  Speaker 1: episodes very important, definitely.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: On the morning of Thursday, April twenty first, nineteen fifty five,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: the parking lot of the Columbia Edgewater Country Club looked
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: exactly the way it was supposed to on that overcast
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: day in Portland. Cars came and went, engines idled, doors
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: opening and closing amidst the light rain and fog of
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: the early morning hours, but nothing about the morning particularly
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: stood out. By afternoon, though the air along the Columbia
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: River remained heavy and humid, the partial sun breaking through
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: the clouds was an early indicator of spring returning to
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: the city.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, we were just talking about that is the winter
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: done yet?
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: It feels like winter is still coming. I think we're
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: actually we're entering the part of winter where it starts
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: to behave the most like winter. Yeah, and I have
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: feelings about it, but we just we don't. We simply
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: don't have time. I smell snow, I exactly. Oliver Kermit
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Smith referred to in many newspaper accounts simply as Al
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: Smith for inexplicable old timey newspaper reasons that I can't
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: quite understand.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: What was his name?
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: His name was Oliver Kermit Smith, and.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: They called him Al Okay, maybe I don't know, Maybe
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: he didn't want his name used.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: Well, at this point he didn't really have a say
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: in the matter.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: But uh, strange.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: It wasn't a nickname that he went by that I
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: could find.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: I spent a.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Few minutes looking into this because I was like, why
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: am I seeing Al Smith confusing in some of the reporting? Yeah,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: it's very confusing. And so what what the Google fox
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: told me was that it's very likely that some of
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: the early reporting it was just recorded incorrectly or it's
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: just an inconsistency. And then some of the reporting that
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: followed in the very early days just like mimicked that.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: They were like, oh, they've already fact checked this. There's
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: like multiple articles that I came across at one point
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: or another that used that, like what feels like an alias? Wow,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: it's very strange.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, I know what happened though, So his name is Oliver.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: So what if he's like, hey, I'm all and then
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: they're like ow okay, al yeah, fault it.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Honestly, that's a more satisfying theory than what my Google
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: search returned. They were just like, I don't know, I
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: don't know why they would have said that, but it's
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: parroted back because newspaper reporters were sometimes a little sloppy,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: fake news.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Right, I was like back then and probably still.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: He was a thirty five year old Portland resident and
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: regular presence at the club.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: Very latched.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Uh, I mean, to my mind, I don't. I am
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: not a member of any country club. The country club, yeah,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: even though I said it like country club. But there
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: are now so fancy that I've seen on.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: Tapery fancy mm hmm.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: A quiet and mild mannered man and prominent attorney, with
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: nothing about his demeanor that day to suggest he was
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: anxious or in any way distressed. He was not known
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: to be involved in active disputes or really any type
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: of controversy. I think a lot of the reporting really
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: stepped ever so gently around, like basically falling just short
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: of calling him like, you know, kind of a boring guy.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like, yeah, it was. It was interesting.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: I feel like the nineteen fifties were definitely a different time,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: but it was like even they were like this man,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: like nothing interesting about him, or it's just like he's
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: just like a man in his middle age, like settled
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: into a career in community but okay. He reportedly called
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: his wife just minutes before leaving the club where he'd
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: been playing jin Rummy amongst friends, to tell her that
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: he was headed home. Home was a craftsman bungalow at
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: sixty four twenty six Northeast Alameda Street, common to homes
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: built in the neighborhood of the era. So it's actually
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: really really cute. I'm I want me a craftsman bungalow.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say, don't even like I don't really
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: know what a bungalow means, like I've heard the word.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Honestly, I should have been able to write up a
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: whole other case in the time since I started and
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: ended this one, but things like Craftsman Bungalow.
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: Really, they really have me leaning into a.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: Very hard detour.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: The amount of time that I spent looking into the
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: architecture of this singular building, which.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Has very very little to do with the case.
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: Alarming.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Hey, man, you what does it?
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: You go?
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: Where the dopamine is? I don't know? Yes it is? Yeah.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Hey, here's the thing is I tell the hyper focus
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: to engage, I can't tell it what to engage with. Unfortunately. Yeah,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: wouldn't that be a superpower? Oh my god?
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: Can you imagine? I'd be unstoppable.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Oliver was reportedly the last to leave the stag party
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: held at the club that night, And just for a reference,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: because stag party, I think is I think back then
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: it was a more common term, and I think now,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: like across the pond, it's still a term that's used
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: more frequently. It's basically a bachelor party. Oh.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: I was going to say some kind of man party.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: He's some sort of man party, a man gathering. It's
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: a man gathering. He unlocked the door to his nineteen
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: fifty two Buick and sat down behind the wheel as
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: he prepared for the drive home.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: What a square car.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly like a Buick though for real, no offense,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: it's no offense.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: I love me a square car, trust me. I'm like,
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: if I could have like a station wagon, an old one,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: that would be just fantastic.
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: That's the dream to you.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's come up on the podcast before.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: It's because it looks like a hearse without being a hearse.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: That I believe you are correct.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: I believe that has come up before, and as as
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: per usual, my response has not changed. I I'm not
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: like a crazy I'm I'm not all about my car, but.
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: I do need something a little a little bit sexier,
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: a sexy little grocery getter.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Hey man, the driver makes it sexy, you know. Oh wow,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: honk if you're horny.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: He unlocked the door to his nineteen fifty two Buick
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: and sat down behind the wheel. As he prepared for
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: the drive home, a violent blast erupted from beneath the
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: driver's seat, tearing through the car with extraordinary force. Holy
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: shit balls, that I was like, not expecting that ex that. Yeah,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: I aim to please, Like.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: I felt a blast inside of me.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, not you know, it just like was
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: we need a break no, no, but no, it's I know,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: it's been a while since we've had one that was
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know, there's something about suck. I don't know.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: It's very scary. It's very scary.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: And I can only imagine in the eras and you know,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: locations where like bombings of any sort have been you know,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: really prolific. I can only imagine what it's like to
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: try to live your life.
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: That is not the case at this.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Point in time in Portland, so it's actually all the
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: more shocking.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: But we'll get there, okay.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: The roof of the buick was blown completely off and
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: hurled several feet away. Shrapnel and twisted metal scattered across
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: the parking lot as smoke, dust and debris filled the air.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Smith was killed immediately. The injuries were catastrophic, leaving no
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: possibility of survival. Within moments, the quiet routine of the
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: country club had been transformed into one of the most
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: shocking crime scenes Portland had ever seen. Jay Raymond carskadon
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: a golf buddy, as well as the ex Chief Criminal
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Deputy District Attorney say that ten times fast, I dare you, Oh,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: I had also been I don't know, don't do it,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: it's not worth it. Had also been invited to attend
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: that same stag party, simately had declined. He said Smith
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: didn't normally attend sag parties and wasn't all that interested
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: in attending, but that his wife had urged him for Karskadon.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: The sudden loss seemed surreal, but another equally awful thought
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: haunted him. If he had attended the party, he himself
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: would have perished in the awful explosion, as he would
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: have been riding home with Kermit. And I'm gonna, yeah,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: I'm going to refer to him largely throughout this as
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Kermit because I think it is so endearing.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: Kermit. Yeah, Kermit.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: I know that you said that was his middle name
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: or was that his last name? I can't remember that
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: was his last name, middle name, Okay, I know, I
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: just thought it was. It's very very I don't know,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: it's so cute, it's very sweet.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: I just picture him, you know, riding along in his
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: buick with Miss Piggy Kurmie Kurmie.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: I feel so fucking bad for his wife, like the guilt,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: but I like.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: I'm one hundred percent oh, unless she had something to
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: do with it, it's hard to say. I mean, honestly,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: this uh Carskadon character.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: He's all of.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: A sudden going for a real sympathy plea. Huh hmmm,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. That's terrible.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: He had nothing.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Oh oh, I was like, well, that's like what I
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: was thinking, Like, Oh, how convenient that you didn't go
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: to this. I know. Well, that's why I put it
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: in at the beginning. I was like, I'm gonna put
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: this in because it's like, it's really really sad. It
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: was one of those things where like there's a lot
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: of like these really short flips or excerpts from people
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: that the papers interviewed, and they're really like you can
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: just tell like people were so upset. But yeah, that's
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: literally why I put it at the beginning, because I
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: was like, I want everyone to think, Hey, what about
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: the buddy who was supposed to go with him? Hey, yeah,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: now I'm like immediately feeling bad for the wife, Like,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: but you know, just just since we don't know anything yet, right,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: that's an appropriate reaction. Police and fire crews arrived quickly
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: and secured the area as investigators began their work. Early on,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: authorities noted that the explosion did not appear consistent with
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: a mechanical failure or accidental cause. The damage pattern suggested
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: something else. It suggested otherwise that.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Would be an insane accident, like they're just a card
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: to exp just for no reason, flowed so.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Violently that it immediately kills the driver and only passenger. Yeah,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, thankfully no one else was there to be injured.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: But like, how awful. I'm thinking about that one, the
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: one episode that you did. What was it?
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Barry Berry who love Yeah, lost his leg? Yes
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: he did, Yeah, he lost his leg. The force of
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: the blast, its upward direction, and it's timing pointed investigators
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: towards the possibility of a deliberate act. In nineteen fifty five,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Portland was not accustomed to this kind of public violence,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: a car bombing being exceedingly rare. While murders occurred, they
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: were typically domestic shootings or barroom altercations, not carefully engineered
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: explosions in public spaces. That's pretty intense.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how I was, Like, there's a word that
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, intense obviously, you know, just accidentally like
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: drop off a bomb and someone's car, you know.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Like, yes, exactly that's such an intentional thing. News of
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: the bombing spread rapidly because you know, it's a fucking bombing.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Did it blow up? Yeah, it blew up. Oh my god,
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Dominating local radio reports and newspaper headlines. Just two days later,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: the story had reached national wire services and made the
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: front page of the Oregonian. Investigators soon determined that an
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: improvised explosive device had been placed beneath the driver's seat
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: and wired directly into the ignition system. Oh damn. The
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: design ensured that the bomb would detonate the moment electrical
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: current flowed. It was a method that required forethought, mechanical skill,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: and an intent to kill without warning. So again, it
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: just goes back to this is like very clearly a
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: deliberate act. As detectives began reconstructing mister Smith's life, they
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: initially searched for external enemies. They examined possible business disputes,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: gambling connections, labor conflicts, and any ties to organized crime.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: But Kurmy was clean. None materialized, So none of that stuff.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Because literally all the papers it seemed like that they
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: could talk about was like how he's just like this
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: very like all American normal, like average dude.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean he's a lawyer, okay.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Got a wife and kids. Like he's, you know, a
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: lawyer into his career. You could be a lawyer, yeah,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: I mean you could have you you could have some
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: enemies as a lawyer. That's that's for true. He was
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: also a country club guy, so I mean, yeah, he's
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: got golfing buddies. He didn't even want to go to
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: the stag party.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: He's like, was Smith his real name?
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: That general? Yeah? Very generic generic, thank you, that's the one. Yeah,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: you were close, you were you were getting there.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: I was almost there.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: I can remember Barry and the tarot card we pulled
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: years ago, but I can't remember the word generic.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: It's fine, hey, listen.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: There's no rhyme or reason, just spiciness. Smith's finances were modest,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: his employment history stable, and friends described him as dependable
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: and low key, with no known enemies. But for someone
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: without established enemies, it sure seemed like someone had been
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: perhaps trying to kill mister Smith, but very.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Very obviously yeah.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Well more obviously. With no outside motive emerging, attention turned
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: inward toward his personal life. In the months preceding his death,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Kermit had recently remarried his wife, Marjorie May Roberts Smith.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: The couple was first married on August twenty second, nineteen
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: fifty two, but according to Marjorie, had been separated for
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: nearly three years prior to their remarriage on February fourth,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: nineteen fifty five. HM.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know it works out for some people,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: but I would just say, just you know, yeah, don't
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: go backwards, never go backwards.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, they had a child together, so
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: I can understand, especially back then, I'm sure the pressure
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: to like, you know, stay together for the kids.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: I couldn't find anything that provided any significant substantiation of
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: her accusation, but in their initial divorce proceeding, she had
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: accused him of basically verbal abuse.
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: And having slapped her.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that was Yeah, I don't know
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: if that was like a singular occurrence or what that
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, So that I feel like I feel like
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: I have to mention it just because it's like, you know,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: to lay out all of the information.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Right, you know, what goes on behind closed doors?
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Exactly exactly just weeks prior, been attacked outside of his home,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: resulting in a broken nose when a bottle had been.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Bashed about his head. Jesus.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: When police questioned him about who the attacker might have been,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: he replied Wolf, and apparently there.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: Was some confusion.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: The policeman was like, you were attacked by a wolf, right,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: and he was like, uh no, actually, I will give
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: you his full.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: Name because he was indeed a man, not a wolf.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, got it.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: It was like his last name or something or exactly
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: maybe his first name.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: That'd be real weird. But Fox Moulder, Yeah, I like
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: where your head's at.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: But no. While there hadn't been any evidence against Wolf
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: in this prior attack, it certainly made him a compelling
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: possible suspect in Kermit's murder. Now, what no one knew
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: is that the assailant had held a thirty eight special
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: with the intent to kill the poor man and had
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: lost the nerve, which is so confusing to me, because
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: how do you go with a gun to kill someone
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: and then you lose the nerve and decide to just
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: beat them?
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Maybe a bottle work?
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Like what maybe are you looking? Are you looking for
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: a noisier way to do this?
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: My thought is he had to like get the liquid
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: courage up there and yeah, and then he's like, well,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: now I'm here with this empty bottle.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I didn't. I really I couldn't quite make sense of it.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: There wasn't really any description of it that I can
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: recall seeing beyond just a bottle. It never said, like,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: you know, a liquor or a beer bottle, because that
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: that was kind of yeah, that was my thought too.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: It was like liquid courage because you're about to try
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: to like shoot someone, and I would hope that you
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: at minimum feel a little conflicted about killing another human being.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: But hard to say.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Interesting. The Smith's relationship had been unstable for years, you know,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: because they were separated for three years and at the
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: time of his death had only been back together for
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: like a couple months. Yeah, so marked by the significant separation,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: then divorced before an abrupt reconciliation. To neighbors and acquaintances,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: the remarriage reportedly appeared sudden and puzzling. There was no
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: public narrative of renewed romance or reconciliation. Instead, the reunion
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: seemed quiet, transactional, and emotionally distant.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Like just like like I said before, kind of you
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: don't know what goes on behind closed doors, so like
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: you don't know what they were talking about or doing,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: like you have no idea.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Right, there were some people that had some ideas, but
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: also who exactly was this wolf character?
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: Right? Am I right?
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: I mean a wolf? Or I'm wanting you to tell me?
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Are you not gonna Oh, I'm definitely gonna yeah, okay, cool, Yeah, No,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: he figures very prominently throughout the rest of the story,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: so fear.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: Not woo, we need to know.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Financial records soon became central to the inquiry. Investigators confirmed
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: that Smith's life insurance policy was active at the time
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: of his death, and that Marjorie Smith had been restored
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: as beneficiary following their remarriage.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: H beneficiary Beneficiary.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Insurance company representatives cooperated with law enforcement, providing documentation showing
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: the policy's reinstatement payment was immediately suspended pending the outcome
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: of the criminal investigation, removing any immediate financial benefit.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: Uh oh spaghettio.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: As detectives examined the timing of the remarriage more closely
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: as one might yeah, they interviewed friends and acquaintances who
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: had observed the couple during that period. Several described the
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: reunion as emotionally restrained and lacking the outward signs of
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: genuine reconciliation, rather than renewed closeness. Witnesses recalled distance and
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: importantly tension, just like, why.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Would you both agree to that? Like, what are you
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: getting out of that?
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: I know why, at least one of them would agree
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: to that.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: I'm seeing a reason for one of them. Possibly, I'm
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: wondering about the other one.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean stay together for the kids.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: It was a real strong motivation.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: And then there was something else that I think worked
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: out to be a real strong motivation as well. Friends
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: of the couple would testify that the reunion was not
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: driven by affection. Marjorie had spoken openly about her dissatisfaction
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: with the marriage and her desire to leave Portland behind
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: closed doors. She was already envisioning a different future, one
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: that did not include her husband.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: She got lucky. Yeah, I know, look at that convenience.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: Weird, weird that you would re marry someone and be like,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: but actually I don't really see them as part of
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: my future.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Right, maybe they'll just like die or something, you know, yeah.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Or somethings began piecing together the scope of Marjorie Smith's
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: relationship with Victor Lawrence Wolf.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: I knew it. I was like Victor's a wolf.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Victor Lawrence Wolf a forty five year old electrician who
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: lived in a residential property owned by Missus Marjorie Smith.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Interesting he brought his family to Oregon after his farming
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: operation went busted in nineteen thirty nine. They were living
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: in Kansas at that time.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: We're not in Kansas anymore.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Nineteen thirty nine saw a lot of people leaving Kansas
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: and some of the surrounding areas because that was just
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: following the height of the dust bowl. Oh that was bad.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: It was all bad. Not that I went through it
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: or anything, but I heard no. No, I mean people
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: were literally starving to death. Yeah, very very very very.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Scary times for people living, you know, in I think
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: that was kind of Midwest anyways, it makes sense like
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: historically his migration with the family.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: That all like that tracks.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: He worked odd jobs, but also began acquiring rudimentary skills
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: of the electrical trade.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Handy.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Around the holidays, he'd served as the Santa Claus for
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: the Christmas party at Missus Smith's rooming house, her rental property.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Oh, I saw Mommy kissing Santa clause.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, thank you for connecting those dots for me.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: You're welcome.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Witness statements placed the two together frequently in the months
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: leading up to the bombing. Wolfe's background drew immediate interest.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: He had mechanical experience, access to tools, and sufficient technical
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: knowledge to construct a electrically triggered device. Several witnesses reported
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: seeing him near the Smith residence and vehicle during the
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: period when investigators believed the bomb was installed.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Shit, dude, not looking good.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: It's not looking good.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Bad, Sannah, bad, very bad Sannah. When questioned, Wolfe initially
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: attempted to minimize the nature of his relationship with Marjorie,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: as one does when they are having an illicit affair
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: with a woman whose husband was just literally blown to pieces.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Seriously, I don't know nothing about that. I don't know that.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: I never heard of him.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Over time and across multiple interviews that account shifted detectives
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: documented inconsistencies in his explanations regarding his movements, his access
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: to Smith's car, and his knowledge of explosives. Because at
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: first he definitely tried to downplay that, eventually, under sustained
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: questioning Wolf confessed, upon investigators revealing their discovery of detonators
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: stuffed into the heater vent of his vehicle, his involvement
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: becoming pretty quite.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Clear, super duper. It was like you did it? Had
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: those be in there?
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, never seen those before my life.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: That's oh, we're used to like hide something, but I
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: guess it's really like who would look in there? But
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: who wouldn't look in there? If you're police.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Investigating and you're like you kind of quickly became suspect
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: number one, like you were suspect number one in the
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: first attempt to harm him, so strange. According to summaries
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: of his statements, Wolf admitted to constructing the bomb and
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: installing it beneath the driver's seat of Smith's Bewick. Wolf
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: described selecting the placement carefully and wiring the device into
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: the ignition system to ensure detonation at startup. He stated
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: that the act was not impulsive, but planned over time,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: which is kind of a duh.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: You can't really impulsively build a bomb and exactly, yeah,
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: like painstakingly connect it to the electable system.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Dollar, Yeah, that's not really how this works. That's not
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: how any of this works at all. In fact, Kermit
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: carried a combination of life insurance policies valued at approximately
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty one thousand dollars.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Okay a lot for back then, Yeah.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: A substantial sum. In nineteen fifty five, my lovely husband,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: when he was proofreading my notes, happened to look up
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: the conversion.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: For today's stellars. I know.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: It was like literally the only note he made.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: The people have.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: To know, the people need to know, equivalent to over
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: two hundred and forty thousand dollars today.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So that's a good amount of money.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: It's a good chunk of money, depending on where you live,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: Like that's enough to buy a house in cash.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: Not where we live.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: I was in a shithole. Maybe not in Portland. No,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: not even a shithole in Portland. Could you know pay that?
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: I don't think so. The policy named Marjorie as the beneficiary,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: which we know. Records show that the remarriage had taken
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: place shortly before the bombing, restoring Marjorie's beneficiary status. After
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: their divorce, Wolfe said that as soon as she was
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: married again to Smith, she denied wolf her favors until
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: he should kill Smith. According to the play, she used
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: her vagina as a weapon. Uh huh, But I mean
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: the specific phrasing in the nineteen fifties news article about
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: this rather blunt wow, like everybody knew what they were saying, Like, yeah,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: she held out on him until he would kill her husband.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: Wow. Sex manipulation is hardcore.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm. This in the parentheses in the bunny ears
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: on this old timey newspaper article that I'm about to
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: send you a picture of. That is how the case
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: was very widely known. Do you want to read the headline.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Love slaves says widow behind plot don dund love slaves. Wow.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of the reporting was really focused on
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: that angle.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: I could see that.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's scandal scandal, very very very scandalous. Oh salacious.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: That's a good vocab word. Thank you to use it, right, Yeah, no,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: a thousand percent. I don't think that I can even
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: fathom a better usage of the word.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: I'm clutching my pearls.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's right, you are, and your faith in yourself. Oh,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: I've got the vapist.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: What do you need to drink?
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: A Minjulu?
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Now none of these people are Southern, but it's just
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: of the time. Okay, this extramarital relationship, while marked by
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: secrecy and emotional fixation, was hardly clindestine because, as you'll recall,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: before the actual bombing, Wolf was named as the person
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Kermit thought most likely attacked.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Him with a bottle outside their home.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, wow, so not exactly a secret. No,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: he said at the time to officers that interviewed him
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: in the hospital after his attack, that I think he
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: likes my wife.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: That's my wife's love slave Rythar.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: According to later testimony, the two spoke openly about abandoning
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: their current lives and starting over together in Alaska, their
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: shared dream homestead location, a place they viewed as distant
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: enough to escape scrutiny and consequences. Oh weird, here's the thought.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: You were already divorced.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: I mean he was, I believe at the time. She wasn't.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: I think.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: So I'll get into why. Okay, I'm going to get
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: into why, because there's there are some other pieces. Okay, okay,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: I'm just like she was free, like I don't understand. Yeah,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: she was.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: She was totally like you re married.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: The Mayan show Jenny whosel Wolf implicated Marjorie Smith as
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: a co conspirator. He told investigators that discussions about the
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: insurance money and plans to leave Portland were frequent and explicit.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: While accounts varied slightly in wording across reports, Wolf consistently
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: maintained that the murder was a shared plan, motivated by
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: financial gain and the promise of a new life elsewhere
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: and sex. Again.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean yeah for him for Suresey.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: One of the statements that Wolf made, and he, I
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: have to imagine probably made it repeatedly to some like effect,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: in some form or fashion, whatever you want to say.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: He said that Marjorie specifically wanted to kill him, not
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: just because of the life insurance, but also because she
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: worried that if she were to just divorce Kermit again,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: that he would gain custody of their daughter. Okay, I
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: don't know, take that with a grain of salt, because
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: it's coming from Wolf, her co conspirator, is you know,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: the murder. Both were arrested and charged with the murder.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: The obstacle to the future Marjorie Smith and Victor Wolfe
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: had supposedly envisioned was Kermit Wolf possessed the technical ability
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: required to build an explosive device. According to Wolf, he
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: had shown up to the Smith family home on a
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Wednesday afternoon, just the day prior to the bombing to
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: install the deadly device. Marjorie conversed with the neighbors to
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: try to avert their attention, and their supposed cover was
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: wolf putting together a swing and other playground equipment for
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: the couple's daughter, Susan's birthday, aged three at the time.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: Is it is he working on the Is he doing
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: stuff to the car?
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: No, that's that's when he put the bomb and there.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: Their big plan was he's putting together swing set. What
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: does that like if someone sees you doing stuff to
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: the car, why wouldn't you just leaves fixing something in the.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Car, you know, because that maybe that would have looked
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: like more suspicious and they didn't want somebody to say, oh, yeah,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: I saw him working on the car right before the
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: murder occurred. I don't mean, okay, are you say? I
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: guess okay, that makes sense.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: I was just like looking at it from the point
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: of view of like he's over there, people are gonna
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: see him doing stuff to the car.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Probably, I don't know, yeah, no, I mean like your
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: head's in the right place for sure.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, but that does make sense because he doesn't want
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: to be associated with the car.
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: Got it exactly exactly.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Crawling beneath the vehicle, he mounted the bomb under the
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: driver's seat and wired directly into the ignition circuit. When
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: the key was turned, the circuit would close. On April
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: twenty first, it did. So. Keep in mind that their
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: cover story involves Marjorie and Kermit's three year old daughter
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: at the time and her supposed birthday gift.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: Kermit died.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: The bombing occurred on Thursday, April twenty first of nineteen
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: fifty five. Their daughter's birthday was April twenty eighth. Oh
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: that is so sad.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: I didn't even think about that part, Like when you
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: mentioned I kind of thought maybe they met up her
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: birthday too.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, fuck, how can the car didn't explode when he
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: started it to drive it? Are you gonna go over that?
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: I'm not, because it got super technical and I don't
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: know how he got from wherever he was gonna go
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: or like you know, obviously he was at their home
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: or the office wherever in the car and then drove
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: to the country club. And then it was like, okay,
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: so then when he left the country club.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know how debated it with the remote
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: things that I don't know. That's interesting.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: I have no idea that was sort of a piece
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: of it that I was like, I don't really have
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: enough technical knowledge to explain that piece of it, Okay,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: And it's frustrating to me because I know, I know
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: that they did this in the family home, So why
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: didn't it explode when he left the family home?
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is huh.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: The thing about it is too, there's like not necessarily
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: like as much of the actual court records that would
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: be like digitized for me to be able to like
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: go and read through.
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: So I really am relying on.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: The newspaper articles of the time and like people, you know,
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: basically like reporting of the time to like explain how
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: they did it. And there's certain things that are super
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: consistent throughout all of it, where they say it was
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: mounted underneath the driver's seat, it was wired directly into
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: the ignition circuit, and it was set so that like
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: it couldn't accidentally go off, but that it would go
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: off specifically when he started the vehicle. And I'm like, so,
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: then how does that h I almost was thinking like,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: is there like some way that he was able to
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: set up the mechanism so that like the first time
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: he started the car it wouldn't blow up, but then
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: the second time that it would.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Maybe it was obviously like something like that.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I just don't know enough about like the
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: technical like aspect of that to really explain that fully.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: And it's so frustrating.
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: All of the information that's out there, like surrounding the.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Case is like it kind of describes it in the
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: same way, and it doesn't really explain like how he
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: set it up so that like obviously that car had
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: to leave the family home. They didn't want it to
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: be wired to blow up while he was still in
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: the driveway or in the garage at their family home.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: So like I want to know that piece of it. Yeah,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: me too, So curious, Okay, bomb experts let us know.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Right As the investigation had progressed, detectives faced a significant challenge.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Much of the physical evidence inside the vehicle had been
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: destroyed by the explosion itself. As you might expect, feels fair,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: the force of the blast obliterated components that my other
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: wise have yielded fingerprints, tool marks, or even wiring fragments.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: What remained, combined.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: With particularly Wolfe's statements, however, was enough to establish intent
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: and method with confidence. They were like, yeah, I don't
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: think we have to wait and worry and wonder about
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: this one.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: So I guess there was that. God, can you imagine
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: if it went off just like randomly while like she
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: a home or something like, were you not just ridding
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: yourself thinking about that until it left?
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: Like I mean you should have been like how long.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: You said there was a day before? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: So like obviously hopefully she knows, like, yeah, obviously, don't
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: get in the car, like for any reason, even if
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: you're not going to start it.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: What if she like forgot karma? Yeah, but I know,
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: I know, well sometimes karma is a bitch.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: Investigators concluded that the bomb had been deliberately placed beneath
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: the driver's seat, positioned to direct the force upward into
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: the cabin. The placement suggested an understanding of how to
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: concentrate the blast while reducing the likelihood of accidental detonation.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: The wiring connected to the vehicle's ignition system was designed
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: to trigger the device when electrical current flowed. Contemporary reporting
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: emphasized that the bomb could not have detonated accidentally and
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: would have required both mechanical skill and advance.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Access to the vehicle.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: So it's like all of these parts and pieces where
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: it's like Marjorie couldn't have done this herself, and the
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: fact that wolf had been seen the home the day
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: prior near the vehicle, it all just it's very neat. Yeah,
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: how do we know she's not an electrician bomb expert?
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: She wasn't.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: Just saying I have some other fun facts about Marjorie
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: and electrician she was not. In court, physical evidence from
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: the vehicle was presented, alongside expert testimony regarding the bomb's construction,
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: financial records detailing the insurance policy, and the couple's remarriage,
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: witness statements describing the relationship of the defendants at their
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: respective trials, and of course Wolfe's confession. If he hadn't confessed,
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: I think there's a really good chance that the outcome
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: of their respective trials could have been potential very different,
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: hard to say. The defense strategies reflected the limitations of
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: the evidence and really ultimately of science at this point
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: in history. Wolfe's attorneys acknowledged his role in building the device,
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: but sought to contextualize his actions through emotional dependence and
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: manipulation aka.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: Love slave, sex slave mannipulation, manipulation.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: Oh boy, if you aren't saying a whole lot right there.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: Marjorie Smith's defense emphasized the absence of physical evidence tying
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: her directly to the bomb, arguing that she had never handled.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: Explosives or placed the device.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: But you know that's not the only way to have
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: culpability and a murder. During the trial, jurors were instructed
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: that under Oregon law, criminal responsibility for murder could extend
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: beyond the person who physically carried out the act, encompassing planning, encouragement,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: or intent really important in the eyes of the law.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: Wolfe had purchased dynamite from two different stores near Malala,
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: but the pair had traveled together to Ridgefield in Washington
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: to buy the detonators.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, couples day a.
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: Little right, just a little romantic road trip.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: Why do you say a couple's date date night is
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: date night? Trying to say, yeah, yeah, there we go.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: On the way, they had stopped for a picnic lunch. Oh,
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: and that's where I know. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. And
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: that's where he'd cut a bouquet of pussy willows for her.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: Pussy willows because he wasn't getting any of that pussy.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: I was like, I was tempted to put in my
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: notes pause for ninety seconds for Cassie to process, and
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: last I was like, this is gonna take a minute.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: Did he really collect pussy willows? Uh huh, that's so funny.
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: But do you know, like they're an actual like plant.
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I've heard of that. I don't actually say,
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: I don't really, I don't know what they look like.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: I had AI generate a couple of like bouquets, like
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: pictures of bouquets for me, just for reference, because I'm like,
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: that's him getting you flowers.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, oh okay, I've seen those before. I see. Yeah,
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: they're beautiful looking.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, they are pretty, but like, it's not what
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: you think of when you think of a bouquet of flowers.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: I will say that. No. I mean I guess if
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: they were her favorite or whatever, that's cool, Probably not right.
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: I don't know that they were.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: But the bouquet had of course been uncovered when the
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: home had been searched.
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: By law enforcement that very bouquet had been uncovered.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: And they know this because they drove to Ridgefield, Washington
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: and looked for where the pussy willows had been cut.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: They did they and they matched them. That is some
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: hardcore detective work right there.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know how you do that period, but in
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties, I'm like.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: It with all the forensics they had.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just I'm just gonna have to take their
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: word for it. But I mean the fact that they
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: show up to the house and they find a vase
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: full of pussy wilves, and like, that's such a key
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: component of the story in relation to picking up Debton. Yeah,
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: I feel like, you know what, just just just.
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: Go with me, you know.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: Victor Lawrence Wolf was convicted of first degree murder and
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: sentenced to life in prison. I think that was the
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: best possible outcome for him, because at this point in history,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: if he had actually been sentenced to death, he would
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: have been sent to the gas chamber. Oh shit, dude, Yeah,
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: sh So there's that if he had been put to death. Ultimately, however,
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: the jury found the evidence insufficient to prove that Marjorie
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: Smith met the legal threshold as essentially a conspirator what
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: and she was acquitted what.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: I am furious. I'm outraged.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: I will say, I think it is really tough, especially
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty five, to meet the burden, the threshold
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: for proving that there was sort of a conspiracy to
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: commit murder between these two. I feel like a lot
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: of what they have is very damning, but a lot
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: of what they have is based on like kind of
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: second third hand witness testimony or like ultimately just very circumstantial.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: But the pussy willows, you know, like the vibes are there,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: but I don't know that it feels like they have
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: anything super concrete. And here's the other thing is that
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: having researched particularly some of like this isn't the old timiest.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: Of cases that I've researched, but.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: The public's appetite for justice or vengeance was nearly insatiable. However,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: in the case that a woman might be convicted, should
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: she happen to possibly face the death penalty, a lot
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: of people simply could not stomach.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: That They're clutching their pearls.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, I do think, I do think this is one
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: of those cases where they're like this is a child's mother. Yeah,
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: in this case, I you know, I wasn't there. I
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: didn't sit on the jury. I certainly wasn't there when
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: they were, you know, installing the bomb. But to me,
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: it certainly seems like Marjorie they she done did what
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: they said she did? Wow, and that was somebody's father. Yeah,
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: like around her birthday, so close to her birthday, a.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: Week before her birthday.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: In time, the headlines faded, the parking lot was repaired,
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: the Columbia Edgewater Country Club resumed its routines, but the
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: case never fully disappeared. If I had known the story
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: when I visited in a professional capacity, I'm sure I
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: would have looked at the place very differently. The Columbia
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: Edgewater Country Club. I have been there, and at one
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: point I had photos and videos that I took when
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: I was out on it was like a job walk
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: for a project bid. Wow. Okay, I'm gonna have to
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: see if there's any possibility in like either somewhere buried
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: in my camera role or maybe even a dropbox that
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: I can recover anything that I might have taken that day.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: Obviously I don't have photos of the crime scene, folks,
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: Not right, my own personal but not.
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: Like there would be much to see anyway.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: But no, but yeah, I mean it's kind of interesting
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: because I did sort of get an eerie vibe.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: On the property. And it's still a country club.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's basically just a it's a golf club, is okay.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: I guess I was thinking like it would be something
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: totally different now, but that I mean that makes sense.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but it is. Yeah, it's I don't know.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: It was weird because I knew nothing about this case
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: and when I first looked at when I first came
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: across this case, I looked it up and I went,
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: that sounds so familiar. And I was like, I am
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: just positive that I was out there on a job
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: walk like a few months ago. Can that be right?
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: And I looked it up and I was like, you
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: have got to be kidding me. That's crazy, just because
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: it's cool to have been some place that you know,
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: you feel like you have a personal connection. Not I
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: don't know, saying that it seems or feels cool feels
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: icky in a way, but it's like, you know, it's
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: just people can understand it's a historical site.
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: I'm not looking at it like ooh, murder porn.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: You know, I just look at it more as like
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: this is sort of a historical site. Yeah, you know
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: what I mean, Yeah, I think so. Decades later, the
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: Columbia Edgewater Country Club car bombing remains an infamous Oregon crime,
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: remarkable not only for its brutality, but for what it
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: revealed about mid century anxieties surrounding marriage, money, and morality.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: Preserved in court transcripts, newspaper archives, and historical collections, the
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: story endures as a stark reminder of how calculated islands
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: can hide behind the appearance of ordinary lives. A man
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: turned to key in his car on an ordinary Portland morning,
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: and a carefully constructed lie exploded all around him. Damn dude,
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: which I feel like is ideally, in terms of, you know,
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: an audio narrative, the perfect place to end this. And
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that because I have a
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: little bit more and I think you'll understand why I
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: didn't want to leave some of this stuff out.
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: Kermit was a veteran of.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: World War Two wow awarded both a Purple Heart and
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: a Bronze Star throughout his service.
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: Dude Dude had a purple.
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: Heart kind of like a big deal.
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: From what I gather, I don't have any colored hearts
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: or stars from my service.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: Is that when you get like injured in the line
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: of duty or something, is that what that's for.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know what the criteria was in nineteen fifty five,
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: but so eligible actions injury must result from action against
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: an enemy, action from friendly forces, or as a result
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: of foreign terrorist attack.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: Basically, you have to.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: Have been found not fit for duty if in the
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: case of a concussion, it says for greater than forty
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: eight hours, the injury must require treatment by a medical officer.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: So this is all a lot of things where it
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: actually outlines more things that mean you are disqualified than
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: it does specify anything above and beyond about what qualifies
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: you for this award. I really would be so interested
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: to know what were the what was the like qualification
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: back in nineteen you know, forties, nineteen fifties, because I
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: know that a purple heart like you whip that out.
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: You're not buying a drink in town.
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: Right, it's a big deal.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's the primary victim in this case. But I
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: couldn't help but feel a tug at my heart strings
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: for the couple's young daughter, in particular, beyond the obvious
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: pain of losing her father at such a young age,
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: indeed one where she may have either very few memories
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: of her father or none at all. She may not
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: have any actual memories of her father. She may only
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: remember what she was later told.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: Once Marjorie's trial came to a close with her acquittal,
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: a family court battle ensued. Marjorie's son, Gregory, was in
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: the custody of his father, her first husband, during the trial,
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: but that custody arrangement seemed perhaps less acrimonious.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, she had another husband.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, she had been married before, So he dodged a bomb,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: sure did. Ellen High Tower Kermit's sister had come to
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: Oregon upon learning of her brother's murder, arriving shortly after
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: Marjorie's arrest had taken place. In the interim, Susan had
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: been taken to a neighbor's home, then retrieved by a
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: maternal aunt that lived locally, before ultimately being given.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: To the care of the High Towers.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: No one had objected to the high Towers taking Susan
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: home with them to California, including the aunt who had
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: temporarily taken her nor her maternal grandmother, both of whom
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: were Oregon residents. Susan remained with the high Towers at
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: their Santa Clara County home until missus High Tower initiated
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: proceedings requesting to be appointed guardian of young Susan. Though
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: Marjorie appealed to regain custody, it appears the outcome was
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: guardianship or day to day custody being awarded to Kermit's
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: sister Ellen. So they basically the High Towers they took
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: over caring for Susan in nineteen fifty five, and the
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: guardianship decision came down in nineteen fifty seven.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: Oh man, So she was with him for two years.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: H dang and so young.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: So young.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: And then just to think about, I realized that, you know,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: probably the neighbors were people that she knew. But then
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: she's handed off to her aunt, and then she's handed
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: off to her other aunt, and so the only sense
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: of permanency or normalcy after this horrific thing that happened,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: and how much of that she understood, I can't imagine.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: It was much.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: Truly such a sad way for a man to lose
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: his life and for a child to lose their father.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: But based on everything that I've read, it seems like
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: Susan remained in the custody of her paternal family with
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: the High Towers.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, Ellen high Tower.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: Kermit's sister.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: Spoke to newspapers, and I believe there was an excerpt
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: from court testimony where she said, I have spoken to
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: three different individuals that all said Marjorie approached them either
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: about killing Kermit themselves or that she spoke of her
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: desire to have Kermit killed.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: Geez. She just spread it all over town.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, it was not a well kept secret, her affair,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: her desire to have Kermit die. Geez. So why didn't
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: she you might have said, why didn't she get the
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: custody of the kid, Like did she have to give
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: her up because of the whole court thing.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: Or because of the trial? Essentially?
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, but she was found not guilty.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: Correct, And I thought, well, you know, probably once she's acquitted,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: she's going to be given her child back, and that would,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: I think, typically be the most appropriate. However, because none
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: of the maternal family even tried to keep her there,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: Nobody said, hey, you can't take her. The high towers,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: you know, maintained custody of her, and she was so young,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: and basically what they were saying is that Marjorie does
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: not seem like a fit parent. Ellen seems like a
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: fit parent.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: And yeah, so wow, so this whole thing and she
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: was like worried about losing custody of her daughter and
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: she doesn't even get her anyway in the end, like
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: you could have just fucking moved away. Yeah, you dump bitch,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah honestly, wow. Yeah.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, unless there was anything that maybe didn't make
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: the papers in terms of like legal proceedings with custody,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: but for this to be the decision that was made
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: by the courts in nineteen fifty seven, I think, given
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: the full set of circumstances, one of the things that
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: it it kind of in a way, and they had
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: to be really careful in how they worded the decision.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: I think, regardless of whether or not she had had
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: any involvement in the murder of her husband and Susan's father,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: it seemed pretty clear that there was just almost overwhelming
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: evidence that Marjorie had had this you know, illicit or
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: inappropriate relationship with another man. And I think the courts
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: felt like, why would we send her back to that? Yeah.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: I don't think.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: Infidelity is or should be necessarily grounds for losing custody
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: of your children. But if you, you know, wrap that
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: up in a murder plot as well, Yeah, that's where
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: things get a little bit different. Yeah.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: I can't imagine like uprooting her after two years too,
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: Like that would be so sad.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: It's such formative years. I think that was probably for
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: the best. Yeah, there's no way that wasn't sad for
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: like really almost everyone involved. I mean, it's no matter
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: what happens, somebody was going to have this heart wrenching,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: life altering experience related to this case. Like there's no
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: good way for this end, even in relation to the custody.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: It's like somebody's going to be left broken hearted. Wow, okay,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: should we do some terror?
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I think we said we do terror on every episode,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: so yeah, let's do it. Oh okay, yeah, yeah yeah, ooh.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: We should tell him what deck it is.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: It's the housewivestero, a domestic divination kit and it's very
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: like style, yes, very vintage nineteen fifties style. I cannot
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: wait for you to see some of the old timey
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: newspaper clips, because she very much looks like what you
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: would think a you know, I mean, she's not like
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 3: twenty two, but she's very much like a young like
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: little housewife.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, and he wolfy yep, wolfy is.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: I feel as though it may be accurate. I feel
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: as though this affair may have been may have been
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: for the sole purpose of the murder. Well, she she
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: was in her bad boy era.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: She yep, you're kermit, like.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: Very fifties businessman. I can't remember what I mean. Definitely, okay, Yeah,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: that was definitely his vibe. He was like roughly middle
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: aged ish. He's an attorney, definitely like in a more
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: you know, settled place in his life. He's not somebody
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: that you're gonna suspect is out you know, cowboy in
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: around town. Yeah, okay, Although in the nineteen fifties, if
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: I've learned anything from mad Men, huh, I don't know.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know, if you know, nineteen fifties lawyers were
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: the same as like ad executives on Madison Avenue or not.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: But I have to assume kind of a little bit
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: maybe on a lesser scale. Yeah, Okay, I'm going to
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: operate under that assumption.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm that's what I'm picturing. That's the vibe
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he was more of a stand up guy.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, send me the vibes sending Caitlin magic through my
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: fingers through the computer screen. Now, oh my gord, I
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: can feel a Yeah you can because we're magic. Okay,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: I just have to say too, like, would you look
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: at this? It's like very much like a it's like
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: a checkered apron. Yeah, like a kitchen floor or like
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: a even wallpaper back.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: Then, oh my god, it's it's very of the time.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: Now the evergreen question where in this sort of a
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: semi circular.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: Arch middle right spe shape okay.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: Middle right?
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: How far right? Like middle ish middleish? Okay, I think
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: we're not going far right?
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, no, never we have the eight of Wands.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, you know, I kind of had a feeling we
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: were gonna get wands because that's like the fire element.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: Oh interesting, And I couldn't tell what all the little
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: there was a bunch of little things on it. They're
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: really see what they were. They're like brooms and mops.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: Oh fairy fifties housewife.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, is there a vacuum on. There were vacuums invented
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: back then.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: I think vacuums did exist. There are none on this particular.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: Card, but interesting.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So our keywords are action, excitement, new experiences,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: and urgency.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: It seems like they're like the wife and the Wolfe's
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: relationship kind of maybe a little, maybe a little. There's
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: definitely a vibe there.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: When the aid of wands appears, you can expect your
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: life to speed up big.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: Time or blow up.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: Oh no, this card suggests lots of action and excitement
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: coming your way.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: This is the carpe dim card.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: Ooh that's okay, Hold on, what does carpe dim mean?
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: Don't remember?
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: It's kind of a seize the day type of a vibe.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: But I can look up what carbe dim actually means.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: Carbe dim is a Latin phrase meaning seize the day.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: Nice. Something stuck in there? I know, hey, you guys
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: smart Caitlin, I think she's still here.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: That's just kind of very eerie.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah to hear that because his life ended so quickly,
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: I mean kind of what people that you said quickly? Okay, okay,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: was it was it?
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: Not?
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: Quick?
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: No?
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: It was quick? Oh I was like I thought you
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: said it was like instant.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: You're like, why whatever you've put into motion now takes
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: off at a rapid pace.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say so takes off too.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm yeah, uh whootah. The eight may also indicate
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: a whirlwind.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: Trip that's like, oh my god, Okay.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: This card shows a busy period in your life when
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: you feel, oh my god, I'm dying. I need you
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: to understand that this is like quite literally physically what
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: happened to this man? And no, yeah, this card shows
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: a busy period in your life when you feel catapulted
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: towards something you desire.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: Dude, even though like the word the meaning of like
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: the actual sentence doesn't like super fit what happened to him,
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: but like just the word the little.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes yeah, because it's my understanding that
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: his body was literally catapulted from the vehicle and ended
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: up a couple of behind the rear bumper.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I was you know, I was like
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: thinking about that when you were talking about it, But
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: I was like, I literally can't ask because I don't
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: want to know, Like I can. I think we can
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: all imagine what happens when someone blows up.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, even though you may be a bit overwhelmed, you're
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: excited and inspired confidence all will turn out well. Take
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: a few risks, break out, try new things, and let
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: go of what no longer suits you. Wow, I just
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: feel like this whole this card is like just like
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: what sheet, what was in like her mind like, Oh,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: I just need to get rid of this. I need
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: to start a new life. I need to like seize
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: the day, get rid of this baggage seriously. In a
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: reading about money, you may experience rapid gains or sudden opportunities,
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: rapid gains like from the life insurance in Yeah, perhaps
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: you feel a sense of urgency in financial areas and
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: may need to make split second decisions.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: Wow, even though this thing was kind of like planned,
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: been planned for a while, but like you feel like
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: in her mind it was like it needs to get
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: done right.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: I feel like the urgency is what I pick up
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: on for sure. In a reading about work, the Upright
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: eight suggests a time of inspiration when things happen fast
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: and you have to make quick decisions. Your career moves forward.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: Rapidly and you have to hustle up.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: You have to hustle to keep up This card can
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: also represent job related travel. Well, I'm thinking of their
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: their their hit job together.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, travel, have a picnic.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, Okay, this next part just wow.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: In a reading about love, the upright eight points to
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: a passionate and exciting romance. It can indicate a sudden
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: love affair that sweeps you off your feet, or a
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: hasty marriage, or maybe both.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, yeah she did have a hasty marriage.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 3: I mean a hasty remarriage.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: I w yeah, yeah, and sweeps you again, like sweeps
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: you off your feet.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: Like that's another like it sweeps you off your feet.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: And the brooms wow, oh my gosh. Okay, so is
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: there anything else on that, Like just the pictures on
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: the card that like remind you of something from the
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: case just curious, Not particularly because it's literally just a
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: singular woman flying on a broom and she's surrounded by
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: a bunch of other flying brooms and mops. That's actually
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: very interesting though, yeah, because it's like she's like bye, yeah,
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: but she's like flying away. She's like and people, you know,
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: usually put witches on brooms and they think of witches
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: is like these terrible creatures who will like kill their men,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: you know, right, Like that's kind of interesting, it is, okay,
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: So I'm gonna tell you the other little extras that
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: like didn't fit in neatly. But I have to say
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: the part that kind of got me that I didn't
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: it didn't really like resonate totally right away, was your
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: career moves forward rapidly and you have to hustle.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: To keep up.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: Two things.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: I think I'll start with the one that reson that
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: like links to that specifically.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: Marjorie was asked if she thought she might write a
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: book about the case, having already written part of another
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: on gems given her experience in gemology. Oh heavens no,
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: she is said to have replied. Attorney Bruce Spalding said,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: you don't want to write a book, but you want
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: to say that you have nothing to hide, followed by
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: the interjection of co Council, you stood before the world naked.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: Spalding again, Yes, this case is nothing to write a
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: book about, but you'd be willing and glad to talk
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: about it at anytime. Marjorie replied, Yes, Spalding again, Marjorie,
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: isn't that kind of a writer.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: With a laugh, whoa oh, why she's more of a gem,
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: like a scientist. She was kind of like a scientist.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: Is that what a gem?
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 3: I don't know how strict.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: Someone who works at like a jewelry store. Uhh, Yeah,
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: that's more of a jewel race store thing.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, that makes more sense. So I'm like, she didn't
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: seem like a woman in stem to me. So I
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: do understand why someone would be willing to talk about
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: it and like get the information out. But it's a
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: very different thing to write a book and like re
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: traumatize yourself and then go on to make money for it.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: Like I feel like people would.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: Have just oh, back then, that would have been such
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: a hot button thing. Yeah, So I could totally see,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: like even if you know, if she wasn't the best person,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: like Okay, So I I recently watched a documentary about
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: a case that I've heard a lot of other people
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: talk about that generally, I respect their opinions, and I
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: think in the strictest legal sense, the burden is on
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: the state they did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt,
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: at least to a jury of her peers, regardless of
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: what we might think of the level of a mental
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: processing of that said, jury, it reminded me of this
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: more modern case where it's very much a woman who
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: is uh.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 3: Seems to have been very caught up in.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: Sort of the glitz and glamour of being a defendant,
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: and while that may not make her very likable, it
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: does not make her guilty.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that is true.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: However, the public's fascination with true crime as a genre,
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: even back then, it was far less like widely accepted.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: But okay, so I'm just going to read to you
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: this was literally in the newspaper. This was reported like
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: it was news in the nineteen fifties.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, okay, I can't wait.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: After all the craziness of this case, I really couldn't
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: figure out where.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 3: To put it, And now I did just Now.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: For breakfast Friday, she ate a hearty meal, one egg,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: orange juice, bacon, toast, coffee, and my vitamin pill.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, cool story. I would call that a hearty,
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: hardy breakfast, like maybe a normal for.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: A housewife in the nineteen fifties. I think that was
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: a pretty hardy breakfast. It's not just like a half
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: a greape fruit and coffee exactly. Yeah. I was really
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: blown away because especially care well. Okay, so especially after
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: the verdict, people we're asking like, you know, how do
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: you feel?
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 3: And you know, I.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: Feel like that's pretty typical, and so that's where kind
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: of some of that buzz comes from. But I was like,
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: I feel like what she had for breakfast isn't what
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: particularly sparks my intrigue. But do you Yeah, like unless
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: it was like particularly interesting, like she like a bunch
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: of mealworms or like, that would be the problem.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: Maybe, yeah, news.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 3: But something unique, something interesting, and I she blended her
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 3: breakfast and snorted it down her nose.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I want to know that. That's on my
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: strange addiction. Oh no, oh no, that's don't do that.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: Listen. I'm not here to yock anybody's yum, but like,
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: don't don't don't do that. I feel as though, yeah,
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: I was just going to say, I feel as though
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: nine out of ten doctors will not recommend.
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: That, and the one that does might there might be
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: a problem there. Yeah, yeah, might not be a real doctor.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: That doctor also had some questionable recommendations in twenty twenty.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: I bet, oh, oh my job, that was it.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: I just I couldn't believe the public fascination with and
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: who knows, maybe that was put in the paper and
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: absolutely zero fox were given.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: But I feel as though.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: If they included that in the article, you know, post
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: sent you know, post trial, because I mean that was
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: literally after she was acquitted, weird.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: I get the sense that probably there was some sort
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: of public sentiment that like that might be interesting and
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: that makes me deeply, deeply sad. How did they even
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: know because they asked her. Yeah, it was a direct quote.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: She told them what she had for breakfast.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: That is so weird to ask somebody like right after
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: they've been acquitted, So what did you have for breakfast?
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: I'd be like, I just it makes me think of like,
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's far more interesting when they ask,
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: you know, when they share what people's last meals were,
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: but like, clearly this is not her last meal. It's
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: interesting to look at retrospectively. I don't I just don't
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: know why anyone gives the fuck about it and it
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: was included.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: In the first place.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, so should we say goodbye to the lovely people
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: because I think that there's a dog about to peep.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: Hey, don't don't out me.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, between between my sixteen year old senior dog
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: and you. It's definitely you that's gonna pee on my carpet.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'll be right over. You're like, you never
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: know so bad, I'll be right there. I'll be right there.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: All right, this feels like only fans, like a very niche.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: Content coming to you. Sam.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: All right, let's go, oh boy, have.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: A creepy ass day. We'll see you next Thursday. I
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: did it.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 3: No, listen to the smart Caitlin.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: She's hard to find. I know that bitch is missing.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: Smart Caitlyn. Let us no if you see her