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Lithia Park: Specters & Shakespeare · PNW Haunts & Homicides

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At the playgrounds, parents often notice their children playing with someone unseen by
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their adult eyes.
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I don't care for that.
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You might like this one.
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These kids will describe a new friend in funny clothes, which people think are like older
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clothes.
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Oh, time yeah.
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Okay.
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Although this new friend doesn't talk, they say he's nice and has a toy train.
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But the kids are often confused when they try to play with the toy he offers to share,
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and he and the train disappear.
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Hi, Caitlyn.
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Hi, Cassie.
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Hi, creepy people.
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Hello.
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If you're new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW, Haunts and Homicides, where we
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chat about true crime, paranormal and all things creepy in the Pacific Northwest.
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Yes.
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Or the PNW.
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If you're nice.
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We do a tarot reading at the end of every episode for a little bit of deeper insight
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into our topic.
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So make sure you stick around if you're into that.
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I'll be here.
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Uh, yeah.
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I think Caitlyn will be here.
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Uh, I live here.
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So.
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Yes.
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And I'll be here.
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It's a good time.
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So I found this story that I'm about to tell you in a book that we got loaned to us.
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Ooh.
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By who loaned it to us, Caitlyn?
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I can't remember.
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From the owner of Curiosities.
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Oh, that's right.
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That's right.
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Yeah.
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They were so nice to loan us a book called Oregon's Ghosts and Monsters by Mike Helm.
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Ooh.
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Yeah.
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It's such an old, cool looking book from 1983, which it looks older than that.
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It does.
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But it says it's from 1983.
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I don't believe it.
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I'm going to need to see some identification.
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The book starts with a quote that I think is extremely fitting for what we do here and
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specifically for this topic today.
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All right.
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Hit me with it.
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You all might have heard this quote before.
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I don't know.
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"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
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Wow.
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And that is from a little known Shakespeare play called Hamlet.
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Oh.
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Okay.
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Just a couple of people have heard of it.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Hit us up if you are one of those people.
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You know, they're not dime a dozen.
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Shakespeare.
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Heard of him?
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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We're going 285 miles south of Portland, right to the border of California.
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Oh.
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To Ashland, Oregon.
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Oh.
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Have you been there?
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Yes.
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I've never been there.
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I've been there.
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You know, I've actually been there and visited a case that we've talked about.
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Oh, snap.
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Yeah.
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What was that?
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I can't remember.
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I know.
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I was like, I'm going to wait and see if she remembers.
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I don't remember at all.
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Was it the train one?
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It was.
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Oh, my God.
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I just pulled that out of my butthole.
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Tunnel 13.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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Oh.
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Oh.
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Da.
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I came across that while I was researching this.
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Didn't you think about it?
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I think about it.
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Apparently my brain remembered.
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Well, somewhere in the depths.
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Well, we're going back in spirit, not in the physical yet, maybe someday.
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Oh, very soon.
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We're going to.
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Well, we should specifically visit Lithia Park.
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Okay.
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Did you visit there?
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I don't think so.
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Okay.
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It's a huge park.
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And it's home to the Oregon Shakespeare Festival.
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Ooh.
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What started as a three-day festival in 1935 by founding director Angus Boomer has now been
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extended to various performances in the theaters at the entrance of the park from March
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through October.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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So it's a whole season I should experience.
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I mean, I think you could argue that's definitely two full-ass seasons.
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It's a long-ass festival, man.
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Yeah.
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Tickets are on sale now if you're interested.
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Oh, ooh, ooh.
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But if the barred ancient thing, you'll find much more beyond the park's entrance.
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We have another crown jewel on our hands, people.
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Wow.
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You remember our last crown jewel?
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Silver falls?
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Ooh.
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So I can be like that.
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There's no April fools.
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I promise.
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Does anyone propose?
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It's known as Ashland's crown jewel, which you'll see why.
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With 93 acres of walking trails weaving through forest trees, lush lawns with a vast variety
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of foliage, a rose garden, a Japanese garden, two duck ponds, a swimming reservoir, community
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center, meeting hall, ice rink, tennis and pickleball courts, and many forms of wildlife.
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And of course, the beautiful Butler-Perozzi fountain once made from Italian marble is now
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a very accurate replica.
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The marble was too soft for the elements, but portions of it were preserved and stored,
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but they did do, I think butler was the person who made a replica of it.
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I think of bronze or parts of it were of bronze.
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Wow.
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You can read more on it if you want.
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Fancy.
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Why wouldn't I want to read about a Butler-Perozzi?
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It's gorgeous.
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Yeah.
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Do you want to look it up real quick?
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I do.
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It looks magical.
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It does look magical.
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It reminds me of a fountain that we saw in Europe.
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It's Italian.
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It was from an Italian.
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It is Italian.
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Italian sculptor?
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I don't know what you would call someone who makes fountains.
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Sculptor?
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That's what I mean.
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I mean, made of marble.
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Yeah.
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Let's go with that.
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Mason.
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The fountain, even though it was redone, it still takes a lot of upkeep and it does need
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an expensive repairs and maintenance to this day.
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I went ahead and made a donation on the show's behalf.
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Oh.
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Yeah.
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And if any of you wonderful creepy people like to join us in support of the Butler-Perozzi
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fountain's upkeep, you will find a link to do so down in the show description.
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I love that.
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I know.
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Once I saw a donate button, I was like, oh, we have to donate like obviously.
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We're talking about it.
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It's only right.
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John McLaren designed the landscape and Lithia Park was officially opened July 4th,
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1916.
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Oh, I feel like a couple of things we've talked about like open July 4th.
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Yeah.
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They like to open stuff on a holiday, I guess.
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Yeah.
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Big party.
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Why not?
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Yeah.
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You're already doing stuff.
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Or are you?
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I don't know.
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I don't do anything.
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I know.
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I don't like for the July 4th.
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That's fine.
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So how did the park get its name?
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The spring water in the Ashland area is rich with naturally occurring lithium oxide known
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as Lithia.
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Is that a good thing?
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It is a good thing.
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It's not like the batteries.
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It's not like, it's not like, all right.
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You saw where my brain was trying to connect some dots there.
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Oh, I'm definitely Google this.
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I was like, what is this like metal?
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Like what?
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I don't get it.
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How are people not dying?
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Yeah, it just like has different compounds or whatever.
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I don't know.
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Science.
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You can Google it.
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Science.
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So they built drinking fountains for the public to access the Lithia water for its health
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benefits.
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Oh, the fountains still exist today, although people don't typically drink from them anymore due
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to the boiled egg smell and flavor.
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Oh.
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It reminds me of like, well water, I think, is exactly what that smell and taste is.
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I fully expected you to say like the lead.
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Mm-mm-mm.
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Okay.
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Yeah, it's healthy.
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It's safe for you to drink.
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I didn't fully go into health benefits, but obviously like they use lithium for medicines
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and all kinds of shit.
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Okay.
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But you'll find more than just Bardolators or picturesque scenery, but if you go as well.
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What?
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Do you know what a Bardolator is?
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I mean, I assume it has to do with the festival, like the Bard.
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Yeah, I guess it's people who are like obsessed with Shakespeare.
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Okay.
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So they're like-
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They're called Bardolators?
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Yeah, they're at the festival, like, year round.
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Yeah.
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Isn't that so funny?
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I didn't, I totally like Googled that because I was like, what are Shakespeare people called?
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It wasn't like in the story, but yeah, it was like, I have to know.
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Yeah.
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Bardolator.
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So we'll start with a seemingly benign story from a trip advisor comment.
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They say beautiful park haunted, question mark.
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And this was experienced in 2017, September of 2017.
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Okay.
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They say, well, I took my two twin-age daughters here one night.
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I love that twin-age.
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Twin-age?
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I like that.
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They have been on a quest to visit haunted places in Oregon.
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With the apart came up as one.
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We entered the address in the GPS and it took us to the back side of the park.
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It was dark, perfect for ghost hunting.
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Oh, and murder.
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And murder.
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I don't know about that.
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It's funny, you say that.
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We scared ourselves silly, thinking we heard footsteps.
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We didn't make it 20 feet from the car.
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Oh my God.
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The next morning we entered the address again to check it out in the daylight.
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Good idea, daylight's fine.
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Yeah.
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This time.
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Oh, okay.
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It says this time God took us, but I think she meant GPS.
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I must see.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Interesting.
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It says God.
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Okay.
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This time GPS took us to the front side of the park.
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No matter how we tried, we couldn't find the area the GPS took us to the night before.
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The GPS or God or God.
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Maybe God was trying to save you the second time.
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Goodness.
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It is gorgeous park with an interesting history.
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I'm not one to believe in paranormal activity, but this one left me scratching my head.
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It was fun though.
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And we will be back.
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That is weird.
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I have had that happen to me.
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I don't know if I talked about it.
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I think I told you when I went to jury duty, I'd been to the parking lot or the parking garage.
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I've had jury duty.
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Okay.
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I could not find this fucking parking garage for the life of me.
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I had the GPS.
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I had the map.
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I don't know why, but something was keeping me from the courthouse that day, and I'm just going
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to trust it.
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It was God.
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It's yeah.
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GPS or God, you know, just depends how, you know, how tight is your keyboard technique.
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GPS is God.
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In the early 60s, actor Charles Laughton had big dreams of one day playing King Lear.
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His dreams finally came true, and he got the part in an Oregon Shakespeare Festival performance.
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But he unfortunately passed away before he got the chance to thrive in this once in a lifetime
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role.
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What?
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Yeah.
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It's really sad.
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Oh.
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Now whenever King Lear is put on, phantom footsteps are heard backstage.
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And while the cast rehearses, the shadow of what is believed to be Charles sits in the
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audience to watch.
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Oh.
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No doubt ruthlessly critiquing the performance from the beyond.
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Oh.
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I really don't know.
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I just assumed because he was like, I would have done it this way, you know?
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Right.
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Yeah.
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I mean, that's probably fair.
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But I'm sure he also just enjoys the show.
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I hope so.
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There is a comment on roguefreepress.com from a main name Glen.
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He says, I had a fellow who was working at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival box office.
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Tell me some more stories about the Elizabethan theater being haunted.
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And that's one of the theaters at the entrance of the park for the festival.
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Oh.
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He used to work as the Night Watchman, the Night Man.
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The Night Man.
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The Night Man.
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And when I kept saying Night Man instead of Night Watch.
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What episode was that?
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God, I don't know.
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I think it was the Dead Man's Island Dead Man Island. (It was the Island of Dead Men)
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Oh, maybe.
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Dead Man Island?
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I don't know.
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One of those.
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Charlie Day.
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A live and will.
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And he told me that Mr. and Mrs. Bowmer both haunt it.
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He said that Mr. Bowmer is quite friendly.
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Though Mrs. Bowmer was a bit of a scold.
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Oh.
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He also told me that sometimes he could hear children's laughter at night in the theater.
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Oh, interesting.
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You know how I feel about children and their laughter?
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Yeah.
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It could be a couple of different things.
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Uh, yeah, we'll get into it.
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That's the end of that comment.
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Oh, T.
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People say the park has a very discomforting vibe.
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More so at night.
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My footsteps are heard.
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Shadowy figures have been seen darting around in the feeling of being watched.
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Follows you around.
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No, thank you.
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Well, investigating the park in EVP of an inaudible woman and a man saying, hi, I guess
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he wouldn't say hi.
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You'd probably say hi.
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Listen, he can say hi.
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However, he wants.
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Hey, hey, hey girl.
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Some YouTube ghost hunters caught that and they have a channel called JL solo TV if you
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want to check that out.
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Alrighty.
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There have been reports of a light touch being felt on people's arms when no one is there.
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I hate that.
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Sometimes when people get home and look at the photos they've taken of the park, they'll
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find that they've caught orbs.
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Miss.
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Miss.
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Miss.
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How about you say it for me?
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You guys know what I'm trying to say.
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And even the occasional Phantom photo bomber.
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Okay.
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There were accounts of a full ass person.
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No one knew or could recall being in their group photos.
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Okay.
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So not a photo bomber.
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Not a real one.
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Not a living one.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Great.
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That's always the craziest fucking thing to me.
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And people show up in your group photo and everyone's like, who is that?
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I know.
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I've never personally had it happen.
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I haven't either.
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It better not.
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I want to go on the record and say it's freaking better not.
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Okay.
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Knock on some wood.
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While walking the paths close to the dense wooded area, you might hear a whistling tune
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accompanied by the beat of a jug drifting through the trees.
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Someone playing a jug.
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Yeah.
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I'll explain more maybe after I read the rest of this.
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Okay.
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Then the playful music stops dead and a horrifying male scream rips through the forest.
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I don't really like that.
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No one does.
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No.
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Then the beat drops.
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Exactly.
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That's what I was thinking when I didn't.
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Oh no.
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It is said to come from a logger who was sadly killed by a falling tree.
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People report to see a lumberjack looking man with an axe who suddenly disappears before
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their eyes.
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I mean, if it weren't for the disappearing, that could just be a hipster.
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It could be.
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There are some of them there.
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Yeah.
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It's like a couple.
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Just like a couple.
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Okay.
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They don't usually carry axes though, you know?
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Oh, yeah, I guess.
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Yeah, that's fair.
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So the jug thing, it said that he would play it as a musical instrument while he was whistling.
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So he would like drum on it, basically.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I kind of was thinking he would like blow it, like blow across it to me.
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Yeah.
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So maybe he did a little bit of that too, but it physically said it, but he was like pounding
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on it.
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Okay.
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I'm doing this till like my tummy.
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Yeah.
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No, I mean, that's a choice.
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That is, that's a choice.
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Interesting.
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I'm so sorry, everyone.
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In this next part, there will be some awful terms that I will say one time and give you
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my peace of mind about them and never say them again.
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Okay.
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Great.
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I don't, I don't even want to say it, but it's part of the story and it's what's out there.
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So I just, I want to be able to correct it on my end.
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Okay.
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To say no, no, no, don't say that.
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All right.
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No, no, no, no.
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No, no, no.
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The title of the story in that very old book I was telling you about is called the Hunchback
18:00
of Lithia Park.
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Clearly, that's very rude and we don't name call around here.
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So I'm not going to say that again.
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All right.
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This condition is called kyphosis.
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It's an abnormal forward curve of the upper spine.
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It can develop later in life or like in this case, a child can be born with it.
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Oh.
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So in the 20s, a boy was born with this condition into a logging family and I kind of wondered
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if it was the lumber jack's son.
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Oh, it was killed by the tree.
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I don't know.
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There wasn't any dates on that.
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So I'm not sure.
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Anyway, this boy also had another extremely rare condition.
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Oh, boy.
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Called Hypertrichosis.
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This causes excessive hair growth on a person's body.
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I thought I recognized that.
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Oh, boy.
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His particular symptoms happen to show up on his face.
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Oh, no.
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And since humans fucking suck.
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Yeah.
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They called him the dog face boy of Ashland.
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I was going to say that would make him look like like a werewolf.
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Yeah.
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It's actually, it's known as like werewolf syndrome, which I don't agree with either.
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I don't think people should say that either.
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Just call it by its name.
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No, it's a medical condition.
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Yeah.
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That's so sad.
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I know.
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It gets worse.
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Oh, great.
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He gets a lot worse.
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Okay.
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And it literally kills me.
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This poor child had two very visible conditions he was born with.
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He didn't have a fucking choice.
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Yeah.
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And people obviously treated him like the garbage humans that they actually are.
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There.
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So everyone refers to him with these awful names.
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And I'm going to call him Johnny for the rest of the story.
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Oh.
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And I wish I knew his real name, but I wanted to honor him the best that I can and just
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give him a nice name to call.
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Yeah.
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And I got like from John Doe.
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I don't know his name exactly what I was thinking.
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I call him Johnny.
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Johnny.
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I know.
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This next part really kind of makes me think that the lumbejack who passed might have
20:18
been his father.
20:19
Really?
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Yeah, because okay.
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I'll tell you.
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Okay.
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Okay.
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Please.
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And in the stories, there was no mention of his mother either.
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It was just a father that they mentioned.
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Typical.
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So Johnny had a resort to stealing to get by which makes me think he was alone.
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Okay.
20:39
Yeah.
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Like both of his parents are gone or maybe they even disowned him.
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Oh, no.
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Yeah.
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There's really no way to know.
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But either way, clearly this boy was treated poorly by the people in the town.
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And of course he had to steal.
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Yeah.
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Does anyone going to give him a job?
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You know?
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Or because he's a child maybe just, you know, take care of him.
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Yeah.
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It makes me really sad.
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I hate everything.
21:09
It seems like he did try to make money by selling pencils.
21:12
Oh, I know.
21:14
So awesome.
21:15
And that's clearly not going to make enough money to survive off of.
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But he was trying.
21:23
It was clear.
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Yeah.
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I mean, yeah, probably not.
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Yeah.
21:28
Especially when I'm not sure how many people would it even buy from him, you know?
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Yeah.
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He was always seen carrying a gunny sack over his shoulder too.
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Probably carrying all the belongings he had in this world with him.
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Great.
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And then in the mid 20s, Johnny suddenly went missing.
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Okay.
21:55
I don't think he just moved on to a different town, although nobody was found and no one was
22:01
ever held accountable.
22:03
It's speculated that he was murdered.
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Yeah.
22:06
I mean, it's a fairly rural and rugged place.
22:13
And there would certainly be places that you could hide a body.
22:19
Yeah.
22:20
And I, no one really cared.
22:21
I'm sure.
22:22
I was just going to say.
22:23
I don't know how hard they were really looking.
22:27
Yeah.
22:28
So I was thickening, feeling that this is, you know, the most likely scenario.
22:34
Yeah.
22:35
In the 60s, though, the boy was spotted again, but appearing never to have changed on all
22:43
of those years.
22:45
Interesting.
22:46
The police were called due to a boy attempting to steal from parked cars.
22:51
But they were never able to find anyone when they came to check it out.
22:56
Weird.
22:57
Huh.
22:58
And I'm not done breaking your heart just yet.
23:01
I'm so sorry.
23:03
No.
23:04
There's one more story of Johnny.
23:07
This one's kind of both.
23:08
It's like heartwarming and heartbreaking at this.
23:10
Okay.
23:11
A bittersweet.
23:12
Yeah.
23:13
That's the words.
23:14
Yeah.
23:15
At the playgrounds, parents often notice their children playing with someone unseen by
23:19
their adult eyes.
23:21
I don't care for that.
23:23
You might like this one.
23:26
These kids will describe a new friend in funny clothes, which people think are like older
23:32
clothes.
23:33
Yeah.
23:34
Okay.
23:35
Although this new friend doesn't talk, they say he's nice and has a toy train.
23:40
But the kids are often confused when they try to play with the toy he offers to share.
23:46
And he and the train disappear.
23:48
Oh my gosh.
23:50
A train.
23:51
A train.
23:52
Oh, yeah.
23:54
He was known to like rob trains too.
23:57
Oh.
23:58
So that's interesting.
23:59
A lot of train ties here.
24:00
Okay.
24:02
They also describe him, you know, in their innocent child eyes as having a dog like a
24:07
parent.
24:08
That's okay.
24:09
They're innocent children.
24:10
They don't know any better.
24:11
Yeah.
24:12
I mean, when it's not, there's no malicious intent.
24:16
Yeah.
24:17
And, you know, they say he's nice and they were going to play with him.
24:19
So it's not like they were, what's that word we excluding him from the first scare of him?
24:25
Yeah.
24:26
There's no instinct to, you know, big a tree.
24:30
Yeah.
24:31
So it seems to me like poor Johnny just wants to play like a normal kid.
24:35
He just wants to play with his train.
24:38
No, no, no, no other kids and just be happy.
24:41
Just playing the train.
24:44
The last tale I have is the most common ghostly encounter in Lithia Park.
24:49
Oh my god.
24:50
No, no.
24:52
There's, okay.
24:54
There's more.
24:55
There's, there's, there are more things.
24:57
Okay.
24:58
I couldn't find any proof of this in the Google machine.
25:02
But the legend is a young girl was sexually assaulted and murdered where one of the duck
25:09
ponds is now back in the 1800s.
25:12
So long time ago, long before the park was there.
25:16
Super.
25:18
People hear female whispering in their ears and more intensely screaming for help in the
25:23
distance.
25:24
Okay.
25:25
I know.
25:26
No, thank you.
25:29
When people look for the source of the voice, they find nothing.
25:33
And a lot of people who have this experience don't even know of the story of the girl.
25:38
Oh boy.
25:39
They're quite distraught when they can't find the person I need help.
25:43
Yeah.
25:44
I would be truly horrified.
25:46
Yeah.
25:47
That would be awful.
25:49
Trama.
25:52
She often takes the form of a blue light or mist at the duck pond.
25:57
She might follow you around the park and try to get your attention.
26:00
That might be the source of like the people hearing the footsteps or feeling like they're
26:04
being watched.
26:05
Yeah.
26:06
That would make that would make sense.
26:07
Or even appear in front of cars driving in the area.
26:12
When the no doubt startled driver hits the blue mist, anyone that's in the car feels a sudden
26:19
chill that is gone as fast as the operation.
26:22
Okay.
26:23
I don't, I don't, I just want to clarify.
26:26
I don't like that.
26:28
Um, that's like one of my biggest fears of driving alone at night on like a highway is
26:34
like the, you know, the woman in white or whenever we'll jump in front of your car.
26:39
Yeah.
26:40
Like we need to stop the women in white and the mist.
26:46
Yeah.
26:47
Okay.
26:48
These are national security threats of the highest order.
26:51
It's got to stop.
26:53
But since this woman or girl, they, they do describe her as a young girl.
26:57
Unfortunately.
26:58
Um, she appears as blue.
27:00
So they call her the blue girl or the blue lady.
27:03
Oh.
27:04
Yeah.
27:05
That's kind of cute.
27:06
It does make me sad though.
27:07
Like as much as I, I don't want a ghost to jump in front of my car.
27:11
Like she's just, yeah.
27:13
It does make me think it's like a residual haunting, maybe where she's.
27:17
Yeah.
27:18
It's like she's trying to get help.
27:20
Yeah.
27:21
Hopefully it's not for actual spirit.
27:23
It's just what we've talked about before.
27:25
Like the impression of what happened.
27:27
Yes.
27:28
I'm going to go with that.
27:29
I hope so.
27:30
I'm going to go with that.
27:32
Yeah.
27:33
Good about that.
27:34
So we're going to move on and read some more people's experiences.
27:39
This is a comment on Oregon haunted houses dot com.
27:42
Oh my god.
27:43
It's titled creepy.
27:44
Oh, perfect.
27:45
This is from June 2018.
27:51
When I went there about a year ago, it was about 12 a.m. or one.
27:56
Don't go at night.
27:59
That's not the, it's danger.
28:02
It's not the ideal time to visit the end of our day.
28:06
Yeah.
28:07
My mom and sister were with me also.
28:09
We asked Siri for directions.
28:11
Did you ask Siri or did you ask God?
28:14
It's a really good question.
28:17
And she gave us directions like normal, but it took us to the back of the part.
28:23
Stop it.
28:24
This is a different person.
28:25
I cannot.
28:29
So it definitely was Siri.
28:31
Then it wasn't God.
28:32
Yeah.
28:33
They're both the she.
28:34
But when we got out of the car, we heard little footsteps.
28:39
No, thank you.
28:40
This is literally the same experience.
28:42
No, no, thank you, please.
28:43
This one has a little more though.
28:45
I don't care for it.
28:46
And then all of a sudden my sister thought she heard a little girl whisper in her ear.
28:51
But what did she say?
28:55
She said the little girl said something like, hi, or help, which is one of the reports of
29:04
the blue mist or whatever whispering in people's ear asking for help.
29:09
Are you okay?
29:11
Or are you just scared?
29:12
No, I am.
29:14
I'm fine.
29:15
I think your feet need to come up.
29:17
Yeah, probably.
29:18
They're like hovering closer and closer.
29:21
She couldn't clearly hear it.
29:23
But when we left, it was looking out the window.
29:25
Oh, God, I.
29:26
Yeah.
29:27
Wait, what?
29:28
It's like what?
29:29
Yes.
29:30
But when we left, I was looking out the window and saw a little girl wearing a white gown.
29:37
I told my mom and sister about it when we got back to the hotel.
29:41
My mom and sister also said they saw it too.
29:45
Do you think they all just saw it and were like, we can't say anything.
29:49
Maybe it'll, maybe it will not be real.
29:53
I mean, yeah, I feel like that's exactly what happened.
29:59
My mom had the brilliant idea to go back the next day and see if it would take us to the
30:04
entrance again or not.
30:05
It took us to the main entrance.
30:09
Okay.
30:10
We were a bit spooked.
30:12
Was a little girl still there because then she might be real.
30:16
I hope not.
30:17
Oh, no.
30:18
Yeah.
30:19
So that's weird.
30:20
It's two different websites, two different people leaving almost the same story except for
30:24
the first people as soon as they heard the footsteps they loved.
30:27
They were like, by, yeah.
30:29
So they might have seen a little girl if they stayed.
30:32
Okay.
30:33
I kind of want to go experiment and see where the GPS will take you versus the morning.
30:41
I don't want to get out of my car though.
30:43
No.
30:44
No, I would turn on my child locks so that you couldn't get out.
30:49
What if the girl appears in the car and then she can't get out?
30:55
I mean, she already got in.
30:57
So I feel like she can get back out.
30:59
Like she doesn't need my assistance.
31:01
Child locks are not a thing for her.
31:03
Not in the ghost world.
31:05
No.
31:06
The next comment is called Ghost Girl in Columbia Hotel, which I forgot to look at how close
31:13
that was.
31:14
Do you want to Google that real quick?
31:16
Yeah.
31:17
Columbia Hotel in Ashland.
31:18
Okay.
31:19
It is 2.2 miles away.
31:24
Ooh, okay.
31:25
Yeah.
31:26
So this place is pretty close.
31:28
And their story says, though not technically in Lithia Park, my mother saw a young girl in
31:35
an old fashioned dress with bowl cut, dark hair who appeared to her while she was trying
31:41
to sleep.
31:43
Okay.
31:44
Listen.
31:45
Beauty sleep.
31:47
Don't, don't, no.
31:50
Don't have kids if you want that.
31:51
I mean, aha.
31:52
Yeah, tell me more.
31:56
Confirm my life choices.
31:59
We stayed at the Columbia Hotel the night this happened.
32:03
While my mom was not psychic, she is sensitive to the other side.
32:09
The little girl is not likely the ghost from the park.
32:12
I haven't heard any other reports of her or any ghost in the Columbia Hotel.
32:18
I disagree.
32:20
Okay.
32:21
I think it might be her.
32:23
Okay.
32:24
I don't know.
32:25
Then that kind of like makes me think it is like semi-intelligent.
32:29
Maybe there's two different.
32:30
How many ghost children are running around in Ashland?
32:37
You guys, I am not okay with that.
32:40
I really wanted to go back and visit Ashland.
32:43
I love it there.
32:44
And now I think during the day time, I find.
32:49
Okay.
32:50
It's a beautiful park.
32:51
I don't think anyone should be deterred from going there in the day.
32:54
Right.
32:55
But this isn't at the park.
32:56
Yeah.
32:57
No, that's at the Columbia Hotel.
32:59
Maybe it followed them.
33:01
Maybe it attached to them a little bit.
33:03
Okay.
33:04
I forget sometimes that's it.
33:07
That's the thing.
33:08
That's the thing.
33:10
And do you remember that children's laughter was heard in the theater too?
33:13
No.
33:14
So that made me think maybe they both the kids are together, you know, messing with the park.
33:18
Just having a good old time.
33:21
You are single-handedly ruining my life.
33:24
I'm so sorry.
33:26
Nat.
33:27
You're like, really bitch.
33:34
So I have one more story and this one's from Reddit.
33:37
It's from What the Fish Sauce?
33:41
WTF Fish Sauce.
33:42
I like that.
33:45
This is for a year ago.
33:48
And people were asking if there was any hauntings in Lithia Park and they say, not sure if
33:53
this qualifies or not, I was staying at Lithia Springs Resort, which is really close to the
33:59
park as well.
34:00
It did look that one up.
34:02
It sounds fancy.
34:04
I was having a nice night away with my wife.
34:07
She was quietly reading and I was sitting just relaxing with a glass of wine.
34:12
That sounds amazing.
34:15
With the door open watching the scenery.
34:18
It is freaking gorgeous there, you guys.
34:20
It's so beautiful.
34:22
A woman walked up to the small pond and was pouring water on the pond from her cup
34:27
tans.
34:28
So she was like scooping water and pouring it out.
34:31
She was strangely graceful and glowing faintly blue.
34:37
Like a reflection of moonlight.
34:40
That's beautiful.
34:41
Yeah, that's beautiful.
34:42
Beautiful.
34:43
Or is she drinking a lot of colloidal silver or either way?
34:50
Mom.
34:51
Did you watch that documentary?
34:53
Yes.
34:54
Oh God, that was disturbing as fuck.
34:55
Yeah, we're definitely going to talk about that at some point.
34:58
They showed a lot.
34:59
Yeah.
35:00
Yeah, they did.
35:01
This was like, that's not real.
35:02
I was like, that's literal footage.
35:05
They talk.
35:06
Do you want a fucking bed?
35:07
Do you want a fucking bed?
35:09
That's fucking real.
35:11
That's so funny.
35:12
We're not used to how much fucking footage there is of shit that's happened like now.
35:21
If it's happened in the last 10 years, it's, I mean, unsettling.
35:30
How much there is sometimes.
35:32
But anyways, highly documented.
35:35
I like that.
35:36
Highly documented.
35:39
The water continued to pour from her cup tans as she moved around the pond.
35:43
I watched her sort of stunned for what felt like minutes and then called for my wife to come
35:50
see.
35:51
Oh, okay.
35:52
Yeah, just tell your wife by even creepily watching this woman.
35:56
You can see this hot lady that looks like Moonlight.
36:02
Yeah.
36:03
My wife was gone.
36:06
I felt so confused that I woke up where I was sitting in front of the open door later that
36:12
night with a glass of wine on the ground.
36:15
Exquiz me.
36:18
I don't know why I had such a strange connected dream slash hallucination and no memory of being
36:24
tired or falling asleep.
36:26
So he was literally literally literally literally literally just sitting there watching the
36:32
scenery and fell asleep without knowing it and like spilled his wine.
36:36
That is wild.
36:38
Yeah.
36:39
That is wild.
36:40
Okay.
36:41
Well, I'm done with my story.
36:44
And then with the hour of torture.
36:46
I'm just going to sleep.
36:50
Are you asleep right now?
36:51
Oh, God.
36:52
Your wine's on the floor.
36:54
Listen, that's the worst part.
36:57
It is.
36:58
I had a weird dream last night.
37:00
It wasn't like this.
37:01
Like I knew I was sleeping.
37:03
Yeah.
37:04
Is it was a sex dream?
37:05
I wish.
37:06
No, it was really cool though.
37:10
So I was like in a car watching trees go by as I do when I'm in the car.
37:14
Yeah.
37:15
And I see all of these birds in the tree, like just tons of them.
37:20
And then I'm looking closer in their snowy owls.
37:23
Oh my gosh.
37:24
And then they all just suddenly take off and there's just like swarms of snowy owls just
37:30
like flying through the sky.
37:32
And I'm just like and then I try to take a picture of my camera.
37:34
Won't work.
37:35
No.
37:36
I know.
37:37
It's not weird though.
37:38
It's like that's really cool.
37:39
I want to see a friggin hundred thousand swarming snowy owls.
37:45
Your dream just owls.
37:48
This was last night.
37:49
This was last night.
37:50
It was the dream I had like right before I woke up.
37:52
So it's the one I remember.
37:54
Interesting.
37:55
Did you ever remember owls?
37:56
I did not.
37:57
Owls have significance for me.
38:00
So yeah, yeah, we've kind of talked about that before.
38:04
Yeah.
38:05
You know, my great grandma, she, she was an owl lady.
38:10
Yeah.
38:11
Yeah.
38:12
So I started doing some research into doing some goddess work.
38:19
And I found out that basically the women certainly on my at least maternal side have serious
38:31
affiliation with everything, like everything, like to Hecate.
38:38
Yeah.
38:39
Owls.
38:40
Owls.
38:41
Frogs.
38:42
Two black dogs.
38:44
It's so cool.
38:46
I know there's a lot of other stuff that just kind of pops up and I don't always know the
38:53
significance right away, but I'm like, they might not have even known themselves, but they
38:59
were witches.
39:00
Yeah, definitely.
39:01
They were witches.
39:02
Most of us are.
39:05
Yeah.
39:06
Yeah.
39:07
Yeah, that's what I'm coming to learn.
39:09
Yeah, I feel literally every single person on the earth.
39:12
Yeah.
39:13
Sorry, not sorry.
39:15
Yeah.
39:16
Well, should we do some tarot?
39:18
Yeah.
39:19
Yeah, let's do some tarot.
39:20
Let's see what we get.
39:21
I'm excited.
39:22
Me too.
39:23
Tare it.
39:24
As indie podcasters, we love to show our support of other awesome shows.
39:33
So stay tuned for the promo we've got to share with you this week.
39:37
Let's show them some love.
39:39
You can find their info in our show notes.
39:48
Welcome to Murder and Mimosas.
39:50
I'm Shannon and I'm Danica.
39:54
Together as a mother and daughter duo, we host Murder Mimosas.
39:59
True Cran podcast with an episode released every Saturday at 10 a.m. so you can listen to
40:04
it during prime brunch time.
40:06
While we don't require a Mimosa, we do highly recommend one.
40:10
All of our episodes are cases that we found really interesting or just really stuck with
40:14
us because we hope we'll do the same for you.
40:17
You can listen to us on Spotify, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
40:25
You guys were bad.
40:27
And don't worry, we did get more wine.
40:30
Well, of course.
40:36
We did a shuffle this one real good because it's new.
40:39
Yes.
40:40
It is.
40:41
Okay, here.
40:42
Why don't you give them a little?
40:45
Give them a little love.
40:47
Love.
40:48
All right.
40:49
Which deck do you want to do first?
40:53
Did you shuffle this one yet?
40:54
No, I'll shuffle that one.
40:56
And I'll pull from this one while you're shuffling.
40:58
All right.
40:59
That's our new deck.
41:02
It's Tarottorial.
41:03
Real because we are learning.
41:07
Terrotorial.
41:08
Get it.
41:09
I do.
41:10
Woo!
41:11
I got the three of cups in reverse, which off the bat is interesting because they were three
41:19
ghosts.
41:20
Oh.
41:21
I almost stuck this in the incense holder.
41:25
You shouldn't.
41:26
I didn't.
41:27
I know.
41:29
Seven of swords.
41:30
Oh my gosh.
41:31
It's like cute little fox.
41:34
Oh.
41:35
It's not a fox, but it's not like it looks like one.
41:39
Yeah.
41:40
I think that's a weasel.
41:41
Yeah.
41:42
How's the eggs?
41:43
So five of swords, it was in reverse.
41:45
Was it in reverse or was it upright?
41:47
It was upright.
41:48
Oh, boy.
41:49
Yes.
41:50
And this was in reverse.
41:51
Yes.
41:52
Three of cups in reverse.
41:53
The three of cups on the tutorial card says friendship, community, support, happiness,
41:59
and celebration.
42:02
And that's for the upright.
42:03
And then for the reverse, you turn it over and it has different words.
42:07
Ooh.
42:08
Yeah.
42:09
Overindulgence, isolation, gossip, enough there.
42:12
Ooh.
42:13
They're dancing in a literal fucking park.
42:18
Oh my goodness.
42:20
They are.
42:21
Isn't that crazy?
42:23
That is.
42:24
Okay.
42:25
I'm going to read the interpretation.
42:28
Our keywords are essentially all the same.
42:32
I don't know if you mentioned community.
42:35
Yeah, I think it said community.
42:37
Okay.
42:38
That was the only one that stuck out that I thought maybe was different.
42:40
So the upright is like what the park should be.
42:45
The reverse is like kind of the hauntings.
42:48
There's an extra excerpt.
42:50
Let's map.
42:52
The three graces.
42:54
Speak mythology speaks of three goddesses of joy, charm, and beauty known as the graces.
43:02
The three of cups remind us of the famous painting Primavera.
43:09
Ooh, is that Italian?
43:12
By the Renaissance Italian painter, Sandro Botticelli.
43:17
Wow.
43:18
We talked about the Italian.
43:20
Yeah.
43:21
What's it called?
43:22
Founded.
43:23
Do you like how I sound like I'm doing an ad for Chef Boyardee?
43:30
Which shows these three beautiful young deities dancing together.
43:36
When reversed, the three of cups can indicate indulgence in food or drink.
43:42
Too much partying.
43:45
Perhaps you feel weary from too much interaction with other people and need some downtime.
43:52
This card gets me.
43:55
Maybe you had too much interaction with ghosts and you just need some downtime.
44:00
Yeah.
44:02
Or you've become disenchanted with your friends.
44:06
In some cases, it shows a longing for friendship or sense of community.
44:13
Oh, Johnny.
44:15
Johnny.
44:16
In a reading about money rewards, excuse me, rewards from a group effort may be delayed
44:30
or not as great as you'd hoped.
44:33
This card can also warn of overextending yourself financially or counting your chickens
44:40
before they're hatched.
44:42
Oh.
44:43
Interesting.
44:44
It's interesting, too, because I kind of came across the park.
44:48
I think now they have that resort, but I think the plan for the actual park, they wanted it
44:54
to be a health retreat because of the springs.
44:57
Oh, interesting, but it didn't happen.
45:01
If the reading is about your job, the reversed three suggests your success comes in small
45:08
ways rather than grand ones or a victory may seem hollow.
45:15
Perhaps you don't feel as happy with your job or the result of a project as you'd expected
45:21
to be.
45:22
Like, maybe you wanted it to be a resort or maybe a tree fall on you.
45:28
Could be that.
45:29
Oh, boy.
45:30
Oh, or if like the Johnny was trying to sell pencils and stuff, I don't know how to relate
45:37
to that, too.
45:38
Could be.
45:39
Yeah.
45:40
In a reading about love, the three reversed shows you may feel left out, discouraged or lonely.
45:50
Perhaps you've grown and your lover/loved ones haven't kept up.
45:56
In some cases, this card can mean a primary partnership takes up all your time and you don't
46:03
get to see friends as much as you'd like.
46:06
Maybe you don't have any.
46:09
Maybe you try to make friends and then you disappear because you don't have enough energy.
46:16
That's a possibility as well.
46:18
I feel like also the girl might maybe she's trying to make friends, too.
46:23
I don't know.
46:24
Yeah, it could be.
46:26
I feel like a lot of that was feeling like it tied back to Johnny for me.
46:30
Yeah, mostly.
46:31
You might be right.
46:32
I think it's a lot of that.
46:36
I think so too.
46:38
Yeah.
46:39
Okay.
46:40
So we have the seven of swords and that's in the upright.
46:42
Yes.
46:43
Okay.
46:44
Did I, I think I said five of swords to begin with?
46:46
I don't know.
46:47
I meant seven if I said five.
46:48
Forgive me.
46:49
I think you said seven.
46:50
I issue a formal apology if I said five.
46:56
Apology not accepted.
46:59
Good.
47:00
Okay.
47:01
Anyway, keywords are uncertainty, illusion, impetuousness, stealth, cunning and strategy.
47:13
Some decks, including the writer, weight Smith, Aquarian and Guilded Taro, show a man carrying
47:20
away five swords.
47:22
The fact that you said you thought you said five.
47:27
And this is a man carrying five swords.
47:29
Oh, yeah.
47:30
And the deck.
47:31
Oh boy, when this card appears, it suggests you're facing a challenge or problem and must
47:39
use caution to overcome potential danger.
47:42
Yeah, all three of them, yeah.
47:46
Yeah.
47:47
The upright seven suggests a tricky situation in which things are not completely clear,
47:54
like if your body is missed.
47:59
Or if you, like we can't, I can't find any proof of the murder of the girl, you know?
48:05
Yeah.
48:06
I mean, I searched murdered girl, Ashland 1800s and nothing came up.
48:11
I don't know what else I could search.
48:13
Yeah, that's so hard.
48:15
Yeah.
48:16
Interesting.
48:17
You may be formulating a plan, but don't have all the information you need, which, yeah.
48:24
Wow.
48:25
All right.
48:26
For the plan, maybe risky and good backfire.
48:31
This card can represent seraptitious action and advises diplomacy.
48:38
What a seraptitious man.
48:41
Kind of seraptitious.
48:43
Yes.
48:44
Yes.
48:45
So always put syrup on your pancakes and that's that.
48:49
Seraptitious.
48:51
I always think of it as being like kind of under the surface, you know, sort of discreet.
48:59
Okay.
49:00
That makes sense.
49:02
We can look it up.
49:05
In a reading about money, the seven warns that you probably shouldn't go ahead with a financial
49:10
idea or investment you're considering.
49:14
Oh my god.
49:15
I just had a flash of something.
49:16
What?
49:17
I wonder if Johnny was asking like for a job or asking to, I don't know for something from
49:25
some people and they got mad.
49:27
Yeah.
49:28
Maybe.
49:29
Or he was just like, you know, trying to steal from them, which could be that's a possibility
49:34
too.
49:35
But I don't know.
49:36
I just like popped in my head as soon as you said that.
49:38
Oh, Johnny, let us know.
49:42
If the reading is about your job, this card says don't engage in direct confrontation.
50:02
Work behind the scenes to get results.
50:05
That's that Seraptitious.
50:07
Oh, the upright seven can also indicate restlessness.
50:13
Perhaps your job lacks the diversity or stimulation you desire.
50:18
Selling pencils isn't stimulating.
50:21
And it says consider making a change or the lumberjack like don't cut.
50:27
Yeah.
50:28
Like own own the what's it called lumber mill or whatever and send the other people out
50:33
to do the trees.
50:34
Yeah.
50:35
It's like indirect contact contact with the tree.
50:42
Yeah.
50:43
Oh boy.
50:46
In a reading about love, your advice to seek compromise and use diplomacy rather than arguing
50:53
with a partner, but don't just go along to get along.
50:59
Sometimes this card shows leaving a relationship that doesn't meet your intellectual or spiritual
51:05
needs.
51:06
This is a little chilling.
51:07
There's an extra excerpt.
51:09
Okay.
51:10
Focus.
51:12
Be focused and thorough in planning your strategy.
51:17
As Barbara Moore writes in the Guilted Terror Companion, be on guard or one of those swords
51:25
he left behind will find its way into his back.
51:30
Like a wow.
51:32
Like a tree falling in the forest.
51:34
Or back stabbing asshole communities.
51:39
Or maybe the little girl trusted someone she shouldn't have.
51:43
Oh no.
51:44
All of it.
51:45
I think all of it relates to all.
51:47
It's crazy that there's three people dancing in a park.
51:50
Like I can't.
51:51
Yeah.
51:52
Yeah.
51:53
I I simply calmed.
51:55
And it's like they're in the upside down, you know, like the under underworld.
52:00
You know, the upside down.
52:02
Oh.
52:03
No, I hate it.
52:04
Wow.
52:05
I hate really.
52:06
That's really cool though.
52:07
Yeah.
52:08
I'm like, that's really cool that they related to the story, which is the point of this whole
52:13
thing.
52:14
I don't give a sip.
52:18
Yeah.
52:19
But you can't really read it.
52:20
That's what they say.
52:21
Also, don't give a sip.
52:23
We're going to wash our fingerprints and chapstick prints off of these and then we'll
52:29
take a picture of them.
52:31
Maybe we'll leave it dirty.
52:32
We're real and dirty people.
52:35
I didn't brush my teeth today.
52:37
That's not true.
52:38
You've brushed them now.
52:39
I just smell my breath the entire episode.
52:44
How's your pop filter?
52:47
Stanky?
52:48
It's not great.
52:49
All right.
52:50
No, it's fine.
52:52
We give it a fabreezer.
52:54
Oh, did you want to show off our prize?
52:57
Yeah, I think so.
52:58
I think we already did show, but we are using the.
53:02
We did show.
53:03
Yeah, we did a little video of us opening it.
53:05
Oh, right.
53:06
Okay.
53:07
We should probably tell them what we're talking about.
53:08
Our gift that we won from through the veil.
53:11
We're using the incense.
53:12
We got the little salinite.
53:14
Salinite.
53:15
Stick.
53:16
We were going for sort of a foresty theme here.
53:22
And this is one that has all of the elements engraved into it.
53:27
Spirit, water, fire, earth, and air.
53:32
It's perfect.
53:33
All those things are in the park, I assume.
53:36
Yeah.
53:37
That sounds about right.
53:39
Fire, I'm not sure, but I'm sure that they have a fire somewhere.
53:42
Well, they have forest fires.
53:44
Maybe not that kind of fire.
53:47
Well, listen.
53:48
Maybe the Shakespeare plays have some fire.
53:52
Yeah, maybe.
53:54
Well, fast.
53:55
So we brought this tree.
53:59
It's humongous.
54:00
It really, it's taken on quite a life of its own.
54:03
It's beautiful.
54:04
Yeah.
54:05
Did you tell them what it was from?
54:06
I haven't.
54:07
No.
54:08
My mom was very, very jealous.
54:10
And I don't know how this happened.
54:12
I don't.
54:13
I don't.
54:14
I don't keep plants alive just historically.
54:19
But this plant came from a trimming of one of my grandmother's plants.
54:28
My cousin created, I don't know, however, propagated them.
54:33
Yeah.
54:34
That's the word propagated.
54:36
Propagated them for several of us because now our maternal grandmother is gone and we
54:43
have we have the plant.
54:45
So sweet.
54:46
Yeah, my mom's going to be super pissed when she sees it in this video because she's going
54:52
to be like, first of all, why is your closet door open?
54:55
Oh, well.
54:56
We're human, but hers is, it's looking pretty shrimpy.
55:03
Oh, yeah.
55:04
You wonder why?
55:06
Well, she keeps it by a cold sliding glass door is the argument that we have made.
55:15
Maybe give it a little heater.
55:17
I mean, maybe just like put it up away from the cold glass in the winter.
55:23
There's a lot of solutions.
55:25
It needs some, you know, like indirect sunlight, but it doesn't mean it has to sit by cold
55:31
glass.
55:32
Yeah, that would make sense because I had mine by my window upstairs and, I mean, it wasn't
55:38
very warm up there.
55:39
I think I kept the heater vent closed and it didn't do great.
55:43
I still do have like a clipping from it that keeps growing.
55:47
It's probably about this long now.
55:50
Not from hers.
55:51
It's a different one.
55:52
A different one.
55:53
Yeah.
55:54
Same type of plant.
55:55
Yeah.
55:56
Different plant.
55:57
Yeah.
55:58
But yeah, it didn't do good next to the window.
55:59
So maybe next time I'll put it somewhere else.
56:00
You know what's really interesting is I took this to my old office and I had it on the corner
56:05
of my desk and I was trying to get sunlight out of the one window.
56:11
And then when it started to warm up, I moved her and she was sitting in there and my office
56:17
always got like that warm afternoon sun.
56:20
Oh, so it like she's a little bit of warmth.
56:24
She's sprouting up.
56:25
Nice.
56:26
Good to know.
56:27
Good to know.
56:28
Plant tips with Caitlin.
56:29
Who would have sunk?
56:30
I mean, I don't know any.
56:32
She's a green witch.
56:33
Yeah.
56:34
She don't even know which I guess I don't maybe these vines are so long.
56:39
They are.
56:40
I can't believe it.
56:41
Do you see them?
56:42
They're down here.
56:43
Yeah.
56:44
Oh my god.
56:45
Yeah, you can.
56:46
It wraps around the table.
56:47
It's wild.
56:48
It's gold.
56:49
It's gold.
56:50
Should we do the thing?
56:51
Let's do our thing.
56:52
Okay.
56:53
Have a pre-cast day.
56:54
See you next Tuesday.
56:55
See you next Tuesday.
56:56
Unless you get lost in a Shakespeare play.
57:00
Oh.
57:01
I didn't realize that was a possibility.
57:05
I have to go.
57:06
I have to go.
57:07
What's the thing where he holds the skull?
57:11
To be or not to be?
57:17
There's no question.
57:18
It's not to be.
57:19
No question.
57:20
I have to go.
57:21
Bye.
57:22
Bye.
57:23
Time's scared of fire and loud boom, boom.
57:30
*laughs* pnwhauntsandhomicides.com