Latest / HEATED / Why aren’t Democrats talking about climate?

Transcript

Why aren’t Democrats talking about climate? · HEATED

0:00
SPEAKER_01: The midterm elections are less than a week away,
0:02
SPEAKER_01: and there's a lot riding on the results,
0:05
SPEAKER_01: including how much more damage Donald Trump can do to the climate.
0:10
SPEAKER_01: Control of Congress and governor's offices will help determine
0:14
SPEAKER_01: whether fossil fuel companies ever face accountability for overheating the planet,
0:18
SPEAKER_01: whether renewable energy gets built or further delayed.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: And how communities prepare for and recover from climate disasters.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: But for how important this election is going to be for climate change?
0:30
SPEAKER_01: The issue itself isn't actually getting that much airtime.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: Here's Trump's Interior Secretary, Doug Burgum.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: You don't hear the word climate change as much as you did two years ago,
0:40
SPEAKER_00: because that whole thing, the legs have been knocked out of under that movement.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: He's certainly right that we're hearing about climate change less this election cycle.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: But it's not so much that the legs have been knocked out from under the movement,
0:53
SPEAKER_01: so much as Democrats have actively chosen to sit down.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: Over the last two years,
1:00
SPEAKER_01: influential Democratic strategists
1:01
SPEAKER_01: and think tanks have been explicitly telling candidates to stop talking
1:06
SPEAKER_01: about climate change and focus on affordability instead,
1:10
SPEAKER_01: as if those things were two separate issues.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: And some Democratic candidates are now even going out of their way to praise
1:18
SPEAKER_01: the fossil fuel industry.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: Here's Texas Democratic Senate candidate James Tallarico.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: I support our oil and gas industry.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: I had family members who worked in the industry.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: I went to public schools here in Texas funded by the oil and gas industry.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: And what I'm opposing is greenhouse emissions.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: And there's ways that we can support our oil and gas
1:37
SPEAKER_00: So we can both grow our Texas energy industry and protect our planet.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: Yes, you heard that right.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: That was a Democrat praising ExxonMobil's climate leadership and oil-funded schools.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: But I digress.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: Who exactly convinced Democrats that ignoring climate change was a winning strategy?
2:06
SPEAKER_01: Does the evidence actually back that up?
2:09
SPEAKER_01: And what is that silence costing the rest of us?
2:13
SPEAKER_01: Today, my producer Tracy Wolf and I are digging into the strategy known as climate hushing.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: We'll hear from an expert about who's pushing it,
2:21
SPEAKER_01: examine the polling used to justify it,
2:24
SPEAKER_01: and look at how it's playing out on the campaign trail right now.
2:28
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Heated, a show about climate change and the forces standing in the way of action.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: I'm Emily Atkin.
2:35
SPEAKER_01: This season, we're debunking some of the worst climate myths plaguing society today.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: Today's bad idea?
2:42
SPEAKER_01: Democrats should ignore climate change.
2:44
[music]
2:50
SPEAKER_01: So, Tracy, how are you feeling about this election?
2:55
SPEAKER_02: Well, I know this is like your Super Bowl.
2:57
SPEAKER_02: You are such a political junkie at heart.
2:59
SPEAKER_02: That's how you got into this business.
3:00
SPEAKER_02: But I will admit, this is my first time not covering an election for a network in a while.
3:06
SPEAKER_02: And normally my head is trying to figure out how do we get climate into all of
3:09
SPEAKER_02: the election coverage.
3:10
SPEAKER_02: But, you know, I don't really see a lane for it this year.
3:13
SPEAKER_02: And I'm curious, do you see the same thing?
3:15
SPEAKER_01: Well, I will say after so many election season after election season being so deep
3:21
SPEAKER_01: into it, I'm a little less deep into it than I've been in other years.
3:24
SPEAKER_01: And that's partially for my own Mental health.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: But also because you're right,
3:30
SPEAKER_01: I'm not getting the same level of coverage and excitement from my peers that I have
3:37
SPEAKER_01: in previous races.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: And while I think there are some really interesting climate focused races
3:42
SPEAKER_01: and ballot initiatives in general,
3:44
SPEAKER_01: this election has not been as climate focused as the other ones.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: I remember in 2019,
3:49
SPEAKER_01: I organized a whole climate focused debate for Democratic primary candidates
3:54
SPEAKER_01: for president.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: Now, that didn't wind up happening.
3:56
SPEAKER_01: CNN wound up holding their own eight-hour climate town hall.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: Eight hours?
4:02
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: It was one of the first things I ever covered for heated, actually.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: It was eight hours of—actually,
4:08
SPEAKER_01: I think it might have been seven, but at that point, like, what's the difference?
4:12
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think that's a great example of just generally it was bigger back then.
4:16
SPEAKER_02: The idea of an eight-hour climate debate on a major news network is mind-blowing
4:21
SPEAKER_02: in today's current political atmosphere.
4:24
SPEAKER_02: But why do you think it's not a focus?
4:26
SPEAKER_02: It's wild when we have seen all of these crazy climate extremes this year,
4:31
SPEAKER_02: from the glacial collapse and flash floods of Nepal that killed thousands of people,
4:35
SPEAKER_02: those deadly heat waves across the globe this summer,
4:39
SPEAKER_02: And there's a pretty good chance that 2026 could become the warmest year in record,
4:42
SPEAKER_02: especially for the United States.
4:43
SPEAKER_02: So why is this something that we're not talking about right now?
4:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think there are a bunch of reasons.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: But one of the primary reasons is that Democrats have been explicitly told by some
4:52
SPEAKER_01: of their biggest funders, advisors and think tanks to shut up about climate change.
4:58
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's crazy to me because this is the one issue that Democrats can own top to bottom.
5:02
SPEAKER_02: So why in the world would they want to stifle themselves on such a big issue?
5:07
SPEAKER_02: I mean, who is telling them to shut up?
5:09
SPEAKER_01: Well, to explain that,
5:11
SPEAKER_01: I talked to Aaron Regenberg,
5:13
SPEAKER_01: who directs the Climate Accountability Project at Public Citizen.
5:17
SPEAKER_01: He wrote this really great article for the Boston Review called Why Climate Politics Can't Wake.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: It was sort of dissecting and analyzing what's going on.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: And he said that in order to understand why we're seeing so much climate hushing,
5:30
SPEAKER_01: as they call it,
5:31
SPEAKER_01: we have to go back to the 2024 election and the postmortem of Kamala Harris's loss.
5:37
SPEAKER_03: We just started hearing a lot of people saying that we're losing
5:40
SPEAKER_03: because Democrats are talking too much about climate change.
5:43
SPEAKER_03: There was this big sort of narrative struggle happening within
5:46
SPEAKER_03: the Democratic Party apparatus in that moment to sort of explain what happened
5:50
SPEAKER_03: and who's to blame.
5:51
SPEAKER_03: I do think that the climate hushing angle was a very convenient scapegoat for a lot
5:57
SPEAKER_03: of people who didn't want to talk about maybe some of the other reasons
6:00
SPEAKER_03: that we lost.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: Okay, right.
6:02
SPEAKER_02: So I hate kind of going back there and reliving that moment,
6:05
SPEAKER_02: but for the sake of this podcast, we will.
6:08
SPEAKER_02: So there were a lot of people who thought she was too woke,
6:11
SPEAKER_02: and then there were others who didn't think she was woke enough.
6:13
SPEAKER_02: So how did climate go from being the scapegoat issue to becoming a legit strategy for Democrats?
6:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, to be straight up,
6:21
SPEAKER_01: the people saying that she was too woke,
6:24
SPEAKER_01: like too focused on these perceived lefty issues like climate change— So
6:29
SPEAKER_01: who are these groups?
6:54
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so one is called Third Way.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: That is a powerful center-left D.C. think tank that's been advising Democrats for decades.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: Even before Harris lost the election,
7:04
SPEAKER_01: Third Way was telling Democrats to stop talking about climate.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: They published a memo in June 2024 essentially arguing that climate is
7:12
SPEAKER_01: a political luxury topic and they should be focusing on bills.
7:17
SPEAKER_01: And Third Way,
7:17
SPEAKER_01: importantly,
7:18
SPEAKER_01: is backed by a bunch of major foundations and corporate interests,
7:21
SPEAKER_01: including the Business Roundtable, which...
7:24
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
7:28
SPEAKER_01: Another one is Welcome Pack.
7:31
SPEAKER_01: That's an interest group that supports moderate Democrats, centrist Democrats.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: You're going to see this as a theme.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: After the 2024 election,
7:39
SPEAKER_01: they released this major report arguing that Democrats need essentially
7:44
SPEAKER_01: to stop being so woke.
7:45
SPEAKER_01: They need to focus less on issues like climate change,
7:47
SPEAKER_01: abortion,
7:48
SPEAKER_01: and gay and trans rights,
7:49
SPEAKER_01: and more on things like the economy and climate immigration.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: And just like Third Way,
7:54
SPEAKER_01: Welcome Pack is also backed
7:56
SPEAKER_01: by big wealthy donors like LinkedIn co-founder Reid Hoffman,
7:59
SPEAKER_01: members of the Walmart founding Walton family, and major Wall Street investors.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: And then the big one,
8:06
SPEAKER_01: this was the one that got the most attention,
8:08
SPEAKER_01: was the report from the Searchlight Institute.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: This is a new Democratic think tank that launched in 2025 with
8:16
SPEAKER_01: a $10 million annual budget backed by Billionaires,
8:20
SPEAKER_01: including hedge fund manager Stephen Mandel and real estate investor Eric Laufer.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: And literally one of the first things this group did
8:27
SPEAKER_01: in September 2025 was publish this now infamous research memo called The First Rule
8:33
SPEAKER_01: About Climate Change.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: Don't say climate change.
8:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I recall reading a little bit about this.
8:38
SPEAKER_02: I think the New York Times had a story about it, too.
8:40
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's pretty explicit.
8:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
8:45
SPEAKER_02: Well, all right.
8:46
SPEAKER_02: So walk me through some of those persuasive arguments that were made in all
8:50
SPEAKER_02: of these different reports that are in favor of climate hushing.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: Well, I would say the one that you hear repeated the most is
8:55
SPEAKER_01: that climate change just does not swing votes.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: It is not a thing that swings people who are maybe in the middle.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: And this was a major theme in all the reports.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: But let's just for the sake of time focus on Searchlights because that one got
9:11
SPEAKER_01: the most attention.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: So Searchlights 2025 memo noted that 61 percent of swing voters
9:19
SPEAKER_01: in battleground states called climate change at least a very serious problem.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: So they care about it.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: But only six percent called it their top issue.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: Also, only 22 percent put it in their top three priorities at all.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: So therefore,
9:38
SPEAKER_01: this memo states that Democrats should be focusing on the priority issues
9:42
SPEAKER_01: of swing voters, which are affordability, jobs and health care.
9:48
SPEAKER_02: Just for the sake of argument here, Emily, when you go to vote, are you a single issue voter?
9:53
SPEAKER_02: Do you only vote for a candidate because of one issue?
9:56
SPEAKER_02: I'm just asking.
9:57
SPEAKER_02: No, I don't.
9:57
SPEAKER_02: No, really?
9:58
SPEAKER_02: Me neither.
9:58
SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
10:00
SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, all right.
10:01
SPEAKER_02: In theory,
10:01
SPEAKER_02: this all sounds reasonable,
10:03
SPEAKER_02: but just
10:03
SPEAKER_02: because climate isn't your top issue doesn't mean it shouldn't influence your vote,
10:07
SPEAKER_02: correct?
10:08
SPEAKER_02: Correct.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: And like just because you rank health care number one or climate number four,
10:14
SPEAKER_01: it doesn't mean that the candidate's position on climate is irrelevant.
10:18
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: I mean, Aaron made this point, too.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: He said that Searchlight's data contradicts its own findings on that point.
10:27
SPEAKER_03: That actual data found that 76% of these battleground swing state voters think that
10:36
SPEAKER_03: the Democratic Party is either somewhat or completely in step with them
10:41
SPEAKER_03: on issues related to climate change,
10:42
SPEAKER_03: compared to only 16% who say Democrats are out of step.
10:46
SPEAKER_03: And then when you look at the folks who say it is out of step,
10:50
SPEAKER_03: And you ask why do you think it's out of step?
10:52
SPEAKER_03: The number one reason that voters give is they say
10:54
SPEAKER_03: that Democrats are not fighting hard enough or need to do more on climate change.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: So basically what he's saying is that most
11:01
SPEAKER_01: of these battleground swing state voters do not agree with Republicans
11:05
SPEAKER_01: about climate change.
11:07
SPEAKER_01: And the ones that don't like what Democrats are doing on climate change,
11:10
SPEAKER_01: they actually want Democrats to be doing more.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: To be doing more?
11:14
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: Well, and which makes sense if you actually are aware of climate science.
11:19
SPEAKER_01: You want politicians to be doing what's in line with the science.
11:23
SPEAKER_01: Even Democrats aren't.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: Right.
11:26
SPEAKER_01: So the fact that Democrats aren't talking
11:29
SPEAKER_01: about climate change is this huge missed opportunity to set themselves apart
11:34
SPEAKER_01: from Republicans and remind battleground voters that, hey,
11:37
SPEAKER_01: I'm actually fighting for this issue that you care about while the other guy isn't.
11:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I will say, in relation to this, this is not the only data that supports this.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: There was a polling data from August 2026 from the Environmental Voter Project
11:51
SPEAKER_02: that found that 59% of battleground voters want more climate talk.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: Only 17% wanted less.
12:00
SPEAKER_02: And it's interesting because they also asked these same respondents who,
12:04
SPEAKER_02: What else would you like to hear less of?
12:06
SPEAKER_02: And 23 percent wanted less talk on immigration.
12:08
SPEAKER_02: 28 percent wanted to hear less about abortion.
12:11
SPEAKER_02: So I thought that was super interesting that people want to hear more about climate,
12:16
SPEAKER_02: less about these other issues that we often perceive as these are
12:18
SPEAKER_02: the top reasons why people go out and vote.
12:21
SPEAKER_02: So I'm curious,
12:22
SPEAKER_02: were there any other persuasive arguments in the Searchlight memo
12:24
SPEAKER_02: for why climate hushing is a winning strategy?
12:27
SPEAKER_01: Well, jumping off from their finding that climate change wasn't a top priority
12:31
SPEAKER_01: for swing voters,
12:32
SPEAKER_01: they also found that voters sometimes think that the climate threat feels distant
12:38
SPEAKER_01: from their everyday lives.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: So according to their polling,
12:41
SPEAKER_01: only 17 percent
12:43
SPEAKER_01: of battleground swing state voters think climate change is currently affecting their
12:47
SPEAKER_01: families a great deal.
12:49
SPEAKER_01: So their argument is that focusing on climate change will feel out of touch
12:55
SPEAKER_01: and insensitive when so many more urgent things are on voters' plates.
13:01
SPEAKER_02: Right.
13:01
SPEAKER_02: And I get it.
13:02
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of things that are urgent and concerning today.
13:05
SPEAKER_02: And, you know,
13:07
SPEAKER_02: I feel the crush of rising energy prices and unaffordability and concerns
13:12
SPEAKER_02: over health care.
13:13
SPEAKER_02: But I struggle to understand this is As I know it,
13:16
SPEAKER_02: all of those things are directly related to climate and climate change.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: Dang, dang, dang.
13:22
SPEAKER_02: I thought this was interesting.
13:23
SPEAKER_02: A study out of MIT this April found
13:25
SPEAKER_02: that climate change is actually already costing U.S.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: households between $400 and $900 a year on climate.
13:32
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
13:47
SPEAKER_02: I have to buy face masks because the wildfires are getting so bad that I can't go outside.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: And here's the thing.
14:09
SPEAKER_01: Democrats can use campaigning to make those connections for voters who don't understand them.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's necessarily obvious that climate change is one of the reasons
14:19
SPEAKER_01: that life is becoming more unaffordable in the U.S., right?
14:23
SPEAKER_01: Especially if you're so dug into the reality of your day-to-day.
14:27
SPEAKER_01: But Democrats can use campaigning to educate people about that.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: And if voters do understand that connection...
14:35
SPEAKER_01: It can be a winning issue.
14:37
SPEAKER_01: Here's Aaron again.
14:38
SPEAKER_03: The Yale Program on Climate Change Communication recently put out their 2026 report
14:43
SPEAKER_03: and they found large majorities of voters think climate change is causing cost
14:49
SPEAKER_03: of living to increase.
14:50
SPEAKER_03: I found 66 percent of voters think that climate change is increasing their home utility bills.
14:56
SPEAKER_03: Over 60% think it's increasing their groceries.
14:58
SPEAKER_03: And the support for climate action is similarly very high.
15:01
SPEAKER_03: The Yale surveys found 58% of voters saying that climate action should be
15:07
SPEAKER_03: a high priority for the president or Congress.
15:09
SPEAKER_03: Same percentage saying they'd prefer to vote for a candidate who supports action
15:13
SPEAKER_03: on climate,
15:14
SPEAKER_03: compared to only 14% who say they'd prefer a candidate who opposes climate action.
15:20
SPEAKER_02: All right, Emily,
15:20
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to regret asking you this, but take me back to 2024 and Kamala Harris.
15:26
SPEAKER_02: How well did she tie climate to affordability?
15:32
SPEAKER_01: Not very well.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: I mean, she didn't really tie climate to anything.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: No, no.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: She didn't talk about climate change hardly at all,
15:43
SPEAKER_01: which is why I find this argument that she talked about climate change too much
15:46
SPEAKER_01: so weird.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's not very much like an evidence-based strategy here.
15:52
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: The reason Kamala lost is that she talked about climate change too much.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: Then you go back and you see she talked about it like three times in passing.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: And she's not talking about the Green New Deal, right?
16:01
SPEAKER_01: The argument that she talked too much about climate change is also weird
16:06
SPEAKER_01: because we have seen plenty of other presidential candidates talk openly
16:10
SPEAKER_01: about climate change and then have a lot of success.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: Obama made clean energy a major part of his economic message in 2008.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: Bernie Sanders made climate change one of the defining issues of his campaign.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: He called for the massive Green New Deal in 2020, and now he didn't win, of course.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: But, I mean, he built an enormous grassroots movement.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: And he won several Democratic primaries.
16:34
SPEAKER_02: Right.
16:35
SPEAKER_02: And then we can't forget Joe Biden,
16:37
SPEAKER_02: who in 2020 at that time also ran on a very ambitious climate platform.
16:42
SPEAKER_02: And he won.
16:43
SPEAKER_02: And then that became a cornerstone of his administration.
16:45
SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
16:47
SPEAKER_02: So climate change is not the only reason why these candidates were successful in the past.
16:51
SPEAKER_02: Obviously,
16:52
SPEAKER_02: there's a lot of factors that determine elections,
16:54
SPEAKER_02: but these examples also further complicate this suggestion that talking
16:59
SPEAKER_02: about climate change is inherently bad for your political identity.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
17:04
SPEAKER_01: And my thing is that climate is such a good opportunity for Democrats to call out
17:10
SPEAKER_01: the brazen corruption of the Trump administration.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
17:13
SPEAKER_01: we've got a cabinet packed with fossil fuel industry allies and some executives,
17:18
SPEAKER_01: former executives.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: The energy secretary is literally a former fracking executive.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: And they're all handing out favors to oil and gas companies
17:25
SPEAKER_01: while ordinary Americans struggle to pay their bills.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's such an obvious argument to make here about
17:31
SPEAKER_01: who this government actually works for and how corporate greed is infiltrating
17:36
SPEAKER_01: the government and making people's lives more expensive.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: And Democrats are just skipping it because they think climate is too woke.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: And Aaron felt the same way.
17:45
SPEAKER_03: We have a corrupt administration run by and for
17:48
SPEAKER_03: the fossil fuel industry that's taking us to war,
17:51
SPEAKER_03: that's raising prices,
17:52
SPEAKER_03: and that's causing catastrophes that just like,
17:55
SPEAKER_03: you know,
17:56
SPEAKER_03: Ruined the 4th of July for half the country through these climate disasters.
18:00
SPEAKER_03: And on the other hand,
18:02
SPEAKER_03: we can lay out a vision of standing up for regular people to lower energy costs
18:06
SPEAKER_03: to make polluters pay rather than our working families.
18:09
SPEAKER_03: The idea that we shouldn't be making those connections seems very silly.
18:13
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so let's summarize here.
18:15
SPEAKER_02: If climate helped win past elections for Democrats and voters want to hear more
18:18
SPEAKER_02: about it,
18:19
SPEAKER_02: what are the candidates today doing and saying about climate on the campaign trail?
18:23
SPEAKER_01: I would love to talk more about that.
18:25
SPEAKER_02: And we will do it
18:27
SPEAKER_01: after the break.
18:31
SPEAKER_02: Hi there, I'm heated producer Tracy Wolf.
18:34
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18:35
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18:42
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18:48
[music]
19:02
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
19:02
SPEAKER_02: You are the reason that this podcast exists.
19:03
SPEAKER_02: Okay, back to the episode.
19:05
[music]
19:25
SPEAKER_01: All right, Tracy.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: So when we started producing this episode,
19:31
SPEAKER_01: I asked you to look at battleground Senate candidates and see if they were taking
19:38
SPEAKER_01: the advice of these centrist groups to stop talking about climate change.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: What did you find?
19:45
SPEAKER_02: OK, well, I found a mixed bag.
19:48
SPEAKER_02: So let's start in Georgia.
19:49
SPEAKER_02: You know,
19:50
SPEAKER_02: nice purple state of Georgia and John Ossoff,
19:53
SPEAKER_02: who is seeking to retain his seat in the Senate.
19:56
SPEAKER_02: He has completely ditched mentions of the environment and climate and energy
20:01
SPEAKER_02: and instead is focusing on the Iran war and inflation.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: So I did a search on his campaign website.
20:07
SPEAKER_02: The words climate, environment and energy do not appear anywhere on that website.
20:12
SPEAKER_02: But he does have that lovely 96% lifetime score with the League of Conservation Voters.
20:18
SPEAKER_02: But he has definitely jettisoned those words from his vocabulary on his website.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: So he's got this great record and he's just not talking about it?
20:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:26
SPEAKER_02: And you know what?
20:26
SPEAKER_02: He's not the only one.
20:27
SPEAKER_02: So if you turn over to Ohio,
20:30
SPEAKER_02: former Senator Sherrod Brown,
20:32
SPEAKER_02: who is now facing off against John Husted to get a seat back there in Ohio.
20:37
SPEAKER_02: He's also been a pretty stalwart proponent of climate policy and environmental protection.
20:43
SPEAKER_02: Also, nothing on his website about it.
20:45
SPEAKER_02: Then if you go down to North Carolina,
20:47
SPEAKER_02: former Governor Rory Cooper,
20:49
SPEAKER_02: who's running for a Senate seat there,
20:52
SPEAKER_02: he has a bunch of stuff about energy and data centers,
20:56
SPEAKER_02: but nothing there tied to the issue of climate and energy.
20:59
SPEAKER_02: And I would argue that's kind of notable.
21:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm surprised about Sherrod Brown because I remember
21:20
SPEAKER_01: in his 2018 re-election campaign,
21:23
SPEAKER_01: he stood on the debate stage during his Senate race and he told voters
21:27
SPEAKER_01: that climate change is the defining moral issue of our time.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: And then he won.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: And the next year,
21:36
SPEAKER_01: he wrote an essay explicitly rejecting the idea that Democrats had
21:41
SPEAKER_01: to abandon progressive values and climate hush to win the election.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: And now he's doing it.
21:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm from Ohio.
21:47
SPEAKER_02: Grew up there.
21:48
SPEAKER_02: It's such a wacky place.
21:50
SPEAKER_02: It really was a true swing state.
21:52
SPEAKER_02: And there was always this very famous saying, as Ohio goes, goes the rest of the country.
21:57
SPEAKER_02: And they really did used to be a bellwether.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: And that is not the case anymore.
22:01
SPEAKER_02: That state is very, very red conservative.
22:05
SPEAKER_02: And I'm certainly not defending what he's doing here.
22:08
SPEAKER_02: But I think as a guy who lost his Senate seat to Bernie
22:14
SPEAKER_02: I think he's trying to find this middle ground.
22:17
SPEAKER_02: And I would argue that's probably what Roy Cooper is doing.
22:20
SPEAKER_02: That's what John Ossoff is doing.
22:21
SPEAKER_02: It's just frustrating because especially in places like North Carolina and Georgia,
22:25
SPEAKER_02: there are very compelling,
22:27
SPEAKER_02: obvious reasons sitting in front of your face why climate should be
22:30
SPEAKER_02: a concerning issue for you as a voter because insurance premiums,
22:33
SPEAKER_02: all the extreme weather,
22:34
SPEAKER_02: all of these things that you're seeing are happening right there at your doorstep.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: I just feel like it's a missed opportunity, but let's keep going.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: What else did you find?
22:41
SPEAKER_02: Well, staying in the Midwest,
22:43
SPEAKER_02: let's pivot north to Michigan,
22:45
SPEAKER_02: where there is an incredibly interesting race there with Abdul Al-Sayed,
22:50
SPEAKER_02: who went on Fox News and said something pretty interesting.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: Look, I'm not going to defend the Green New Deal.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: What I'm telling you, though,
22:56
SPEAKER_00: is that we could make a whole lot more amazing jobs if we actually invest
22:59
SPEAKER_00: in renewable energy.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: Look, I'm just telling you this.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: Are you opposed to the idea that we could reduce energy costs and create jobs in Michigan?
23:06
SPEAKER_02: So this is fascinating to me.
23:07
SPEAKER_02: I think he knew exactly what he was doing when he said it on Fox News, right?
23:12
SPEAKER_02: On his campaign website,
23:13
SPEAKER_02: he does have a dedicated environment and natural resources section on his campaign.
23:19
SPEAKER_02: And it says on the website, quote, Now, this is the part I was most interested by.
23:34
SPEAKER_02: That means codifying the endangerment fighting into law
23:37
SPEAKER_02: so no future administration can strip the EPA of its authority
23:41
SPEAKER_02: to regulate greenhouse gases by executive order.
23:44
SPEAKER_02: Now, this,
23:44
SPEAKER_02: of course,
23:44
SPEAKER_02: is directly responding to the fact that the EPA is trying to claim that
23:50
SPEAKER_02: the endangerment fighting,
23:51
SPEAKER_02: which is,
23:51
SPEAKER_02: you know,
23:51
SPEAKER_02: the scientific proof that we are putting these poisonous gases in
23:55
SPEAKER_02: the air causing climate change,
23:57
SPEAKER_02: is basically not a thing and we shouldn't be regulating it.
23:59
SPEAKER_02: Right.
24:00
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to give him props for laying the law down on the endangerment finding.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: Well, and I'm explicitly talking about not only climate change,
24:08
SPEAKER_01: but the mechanisms that the Trump administration is using
24:12
SPEAKER_01: to make sure we don't do anything about climate change.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: And I do think it's interesting that he said that he's not going to defend
24:19
SPEAKER_01: the Green New Deal on Fox News.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: The Green New Deal, I guess, has become massively politically toxic for these candidates.
24:27
SPEAKER_01: I think they've allowed Republicans to make it toxic for them.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: And it's something that Republicans would never let them do.
24:36
SPEAKER_02: True.
24:36
SPEAKER_02: Well, let's pivot up to Alaska where you've got Mary Peltola,
24:39
SPEAKER_02: who's the Democratic challenger to Dan Sullivan.
24:41
SPEAKER_02: And of course, there's two Dan Sullivans on the ballot up there.
24:44
SPEAKER_02: It's very confusing.
24:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, super interesting.
24:48
SPEAKER_02: So she arguably has to walk a very interesting line and Alaska being the place of
24:54
SPEAKER_02: so many natural resources tied to the fossil fuel industry.
24:58
SPEAKER_02: She's definitely playing into that card, right?
25:00
SPEAKER_02: Like she is very much so saying, She wants to expand oil and gas efforts in the state.
25:08
SPEAKER_02: She did have a very small section where she was like,
25:12
SPEAKER_02: I also want to expand geothermal and biomass energy projects,
25:15
SPEAKER_02: which to me sounds like she's like kind of tossing bread I mean,
25:19
SPEAKER_02: so does
25:19
SPEAKER_01: the Trump administration.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: The Trump administration is like weirdly obsessed with geothermal.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: I think it's because I think it's
25:26
SPEAKER_01: because Energy Secretary Chris Wright has some personal interest in those things.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: I haven't done all the reporting on that, but it's my it's my pet theory.
25:35
SPEAKER_01: And I get to just say things now because so does everybody else.
25:38
SPEAKER_02: If you want to look at,
25:39
SPEAKER_02: you know,
25:39
SPEAKER_02: one other thing related to Mary,
25:41
SPEAKER_02: she's a huge outdoorsman and has all of this stuff on her website about fishing.
25:45
SPEAKER_02: So she wants to ban things like factory trawling and wants
25:47
SPEAKER_02: to fully fund fish stock assessments and rebuild depleted fish stocks.
25:52
SPEAKER_02: And it's very like pro wild caught fish and a little anti farm fishing stuff.
25:57
SPEAKER_02: But she's not talking about climate change.
25:59
SPEAKER_02: No, it's just an environmental issue there.
26:01
SPEAKER_01: Well, which is wild because Alaska is one of the I think it is the fastest warming state.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: In the country.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: Like if there is,
26:11
SPEAKER_01: you know,
26:11
SPEAKER_01: we're talking about like Florida and Texas,
26:13
SPEAKER_01: some of these states that are seeing a lot of climate impacts.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: Alaska is really seeing a lot of climate impacts.
26:17
SPEAKER_01: So totally.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: Obviously,
26:19
SPEAKER_01: she's made some sort of calculation that like voters there don't want to hear about
26:23
SPEAKER_01: that.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: But I don't know.
26:25
SPEAKER_01: It just seems wild to me.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:27
SPEAKER_02: But we'll see.
26:28
SPEAKER_02: We will see.
26:29
SPEAKER_02: All right.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: Let's move on.
26:30
SPEAKER_02: Who else?
26:31
SPEAKER_02: Moving back to the Midwest.
26:33
SPEAKER_02: Let's go down to Iowa.
26:35
SPEAKER_02: So there,
26:36
SPEAKER_02: Joni Ernst is not seeking re-election,
26:38
SPEAKER_02: saying that she wants to spend more time with her family.
26:41
SPEAKER_02: So she has tried to pass the baton to Ashley Hinson,
26:43
SPEAKER_02: who is currently a member of the House of Representatives representing Iowa.
26:48
SPEAKER_02: But super interesting guy, Josh Turek, is the Democratic nominee for Senate there.
26:53
SPEAKER_02: Kind of interesting fact, he's a Paralympian.
26:56
SPEAKER_02: He won two gold medals in 2016 and 2020 for wheelchair basketball.
27:00
SPEAKER_02: Thought that was kind of interesting.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: Very cool.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: He calls himself a prairie populist, which I thought was rather clever.
27:06
SPEAKER_02: And he does address the issue of the water quality crisis, which is happening in Iowa.
27:10
SPEAKER_02: This is like a whole big issue of nitrates running off into the water, polluting the waterways.
27:14
SPEAKER_02: That's a super huge problem in Iowa.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: From agriculture.
27:16
SPEAKER_02: From agriculture,
27:17
SPEAKER_02: because they have extremely high cancer rates in the state that a lot
27:20
SPEAKER_02: of people suspect are due to this pollution of their waterways.
27:24
SPEAKER_02: And he did have a roundtable back in April discussing extreme weather,
27:27
SPEAKER_02: how it's raising insurance costs.
27:30
SPEAKER_02: But he's also very focused,
27:31
SPEAKER_02: obviously,
27:32
SPEAKER_02: on lowering the cost of gasoline and diesel because it's a super agricultural state.
27:36
SPEAKER_02: It costs so much money for farmers to put diesel in their equipment and do their harvesting.
27:43
SPEAKER_02: So, yes, he wants to reduce costs on energy.
27:46
SPEAKER_02: But despite all these things, again, no words on climate or energy anywhere on his platform.
27:52
SPEAKER_02: I'm surprised it's
27:53
SPEAKER_01: not even energy.
27:54
SPEAKER_01: What do you mean?
27:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: And that's just an ethanol state.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: And there's just the fact that energy costs are sky high in part because of a war
28:07
SPEAKER_01: over fossil fuels, right?
28:08
SPEAKER_01: I know we'll get to that at some point,
28:09
SPEAKER_01: but like... Well,
28:10
SPEAKER_02: and the other reason to be shocked
28:11
SPEAKER_02: that he's not mentioning energy is wind energy is huge in Iowa.
28:16
SPEAKER_02: Like,
28:17
SPEAKER_02: this is a really large source of income for farmers who lease some of their land
28:21
SPEAKER_02: to wind farms.
28:23
SPEAKER_02: And Ashley Hinson,
28:24
SPEAKER_02: the woman he's facing off of,
28:25
SPEAKER_02: On the Republican side,
28:27
SPEAKER_02: she voted in favor of the one big beautiful bill,
28:31
SPEAKER_02: which cut clean energy credits and has dramatically impacted that state.
28:35
SPEAKER_02: So I, too,
28:36
SPEAKER_02: am a little surprised that he's not standing up and saying,
28:39
SPEAKER_02: we need to get some of this back because Iowa has really low energy rates.
28:44
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of that is because they have a lot of wind energy.
28:47
SPEAKER_02: So I see it as a missed opportunity.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: All right.
28:51
SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about our favorite Senate candidate at the moment, James Tallarico in Texas.
28:56
SPEAKER_01: At least the most popular, most talked about candidate, James Tallarico.
29:05
SPEAKER_02: Right.
29:05
SPEAKER_02: Right.
29:06
SPEAKER_02: Right.
29:29
SPEAKER_02: Clean and green.
29:30
SPEAKER_02: And I just,
29:31
SPEAKER_02: I have to play this clip because Trump is definitely trying to paint Tallarico as
29:35
SPEAKER_02: a woke environmentalist.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: So James Salafrico wants to get rid of your guns.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: He wants to get rid of your oil.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: Wants to get rid of your meat.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: He can't stand the stuff.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: He's at so many barbecues and he's throwing up all over the place.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: He's a vegan.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: I used to say vegan, but my wife said it's not vegan, it's vegan.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: But he's been all, all his life he eats lettuce and celery.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: And then he gets forced for the vote.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: Is he a vegan?
30:05
SPEAKER_01: No.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: Because I didn't know that.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: No.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: I believe he is not.
30:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's just like a big lie.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: He is not a vegan.
30:13
SPEAKER_02: So to Tallarico's credit,
30:15
SPEAKER_02: he has a pretty robust energy environmental section on his issues platform page.
30:20
SPEAKER_02: And near the top of it,
30:21
SPEAKER_02: in bold,
30:22
SPEAKER_02: it says,
30:23
SPEAKER_02: if any state can figure out how to grow our economy and lower costs
30:27
SPEAKER_02: and combat climate change,
30:31
SPEAKER_02: So he does not shy away from the words climate change.
30:33
SPEAKER_02: He really wants to lean into investing in innovation, this all-of-the-above energy approach.
30:40
SPEAKER_02: He talks about,
30:41
SPEAKER_02: we want to add hundreds of thousands of jobs to the oil,
30:43
SPEAKER_02: gas, wind, solar, battery sectors.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: This last quote was something that really stood out to me.
30:54
SPEAKER_02: And one of the deadliest winter storms in our state's history,
30:57
SPEAKER_02: which killed hundreds of our fellow Texans.
30:59
SPEAKER_02: That kind of incompetence in the face
31:01
SPEAKER_02: of increasingly frequent climate disasters is completely unacceptable.
31:06
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's not climate hushing to me.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: No.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's weird because he's also like in another breath being like, I love Exxon.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: Exxon's amazing.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: But it's no matter what it is,
31:20
SPEAKER_01: you know, we could go into critiquing that, but it's just not climate hushing.
31:24
SPEAKER_02: It's not.
31:25
SPEAKER_02: And so I would say across the board,
31:28
SPEAKER_02: you're kind of seeing a mixed bag with these Senate candidates.
31:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: All right.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: So in summary,
31:34
SPEAKER_01: it sounds like not all of our battleground Senate candidates are climate hushing,
31:40
SPEAKER_01: but a lot of them are.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: And it sort of remains to be seen whether or not this strategy is going to work.
31:48
SPEAKER_01: But moving beyond the horse race aspect of this,
31:51
SPEAKER_01: I think just on a moral level,
31:54
SPEAKER_01: it is alarming to me to see so much climate hushing because of the moral stakes of
32:01
SPEAKER_01: the climate crisis itself.
32:03
SPEAKER_01: And personally, I just don't see how we solve this massive problem without talking about it.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: And when I talked to Aaron, he definitely agreed with me on that.
32:12
SPEAKER_03: I think it is silly to say that we're going to be able to do what we need to do
32:17
SPEAKER_03: to have a livable world without ever talking about climate change.
32:21
SPEAKER_03: And even some of the top climate hushers have admitted this.
32:25
SPEAKER_03: Searchlight's senior fellow Jane Flegel,
32:28
SPEAKER_03: she said in her own words,
32:29
SPEAKER_03: it is hard for me to imagine solving climate change as a problem
32:32
SPEAKER_03: without somebody caring about climate change.
32:35
SPEAKER_02: So that's really interesting.
32:37
SPEAKER_02: Why would these centrist think tankers argue for climate hushing,
32:43
SPEAKER_02: even if they can't imagine solving climate change without talking about it?
32:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is weird.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: One of their main arguments is that climate change is a moral issue
32:54
SPEAKER_01: and they don't think that voters are persuaded by moral arguments.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: In an October 2025 memo,
33:02
SPEAKER_01: Third Way wrote,
33:03
SPEAKER_01: persuadable voters aren't influenced by moral arguments about the need for
33:09
SPEAKER_01: or benefits of combating climate change.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: They said,
33:13
SPEAKER_01: it's time for Democrats to focus up and hone an energy message that leads
33:18
SPEAKER_01: with lower costs, not environmentalism and judgment.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: Well, Aaron had something to say about that.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: I'll just let him take it.
33:25
SPEAKER_03: Voters are often impacted by moral arguments.
33:28
SPEAKER_03: Like there's a reason that Gaza has been this deeply motivating issue for millions
33:34
SPEAKER_03: of Americans because it's not about like how is this going
33:37
SPEAKER_03: to impact my job prospects or whatever.
33:40
SPEAKER_03: It's like I'm seeing children get blown up.
33:43
SPEAKER_03: There's a genocide happening.
33:44
SPEAKER_03: My tax dollars are going towards it.
33:46
SPEAKER_02: I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around all of this because
33:50
SPEAKER_02: if you told me I can make your energy cheaper,
33:52
SPEAKER_02: but it's going to kill you,
33:53
SPEAKER_02: I would probably say, yeah, I don't know if that's a good enough tradeoff.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: But besides that, it's an incredibly cynical view of the American voter.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: And I don't even know if it's the right one.
34:04
SPEAKER_01: And that brings up what I think is the most alarming thing
34:07
SPEAKER_01: about all this climate hushing is that By doing it,
34:11
SPEAKER_01: Democrats are just completely ceding the climate conversation to Republicans.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: Like, Democrats might be ignoring the subject of climate change, but Republicans aren't.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: Erin pointed this out, too.
34:25
SPEAKER_03: There's a study that found in 2024,
34:27
SPEAKER_03: Fox News ran more segments on climate change than CBS,
34:31
SPEAKER_03: ABC, NBC, PBS, and MSNBC combined, right?
34:36
SPEAKER_03: And so it's never a decision of, okay, do we talk about climate change or not?
34:39
SPEAKER_03: It's how do we talk about climate change?
34:41
SPEAKER_03: Because that side,
34:42
SPEAKER_03: Fox News, Leonard Leo, Donald Trump, all of them are going to be talking about it.
34:47
SPEAKER_02: I gotta admit, Emily, when I heard this one, I jumped all over that.
34:51
SPEAKER_02: I bet you did.
34:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because to be fair,
34:54
SPEAKER_02: I tried to get as much climate coverage on CBS News before my unit was dismantled
34:57
SPEAKER_02: and we were all fired, but I don't want to make this about me.
35:03
SPEAKER_02: It's so tempting.
35:04
SPEAKER_02: But OK, with only a few days to go before the election,
35:07
SPEAKER_02: it's obviously too late to reverse this strategy of climate hushing.
35:11
SPEAKER_02: It's very clear it's happening for certain candidates, as we talked about.
35:14
SPEAKER_02: And we'll just have to wait and see how the voters respond to this idea of not looking up.
35:19
SPEAKER_02: I think what will be really interesting is if we see a blue wave,
35:23
SPEAKER_02: will the trend of climate hushing be retired?
35:25
SPEAKER_02: And can we go back to being very open and honest about what's actually happening
35:28
SPEAKER_02: before our own eyes?
35:30
SPEAKER_02: Or are we just going to continue to ignore it?
35:31
SPEAKER_01: It's going to be a vicious cycle, right?
35:33
SPEAKER_01: Like if the Democrats do win big,
35:35
SPEAKER_01: I wonder,
35:36
SPEAKER_01: are they going to argue, look, we didn't talk about climate and we did great.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: Let's never talk about climate again.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: I do worry about that.
35:45
SPEAKER_01: As a person whose job is dedicated to informing people about the climate crisis,
35:50
SPEAKER_01: if our politics never talks about it,
35:52
SPEAKER_01: I worry what that's going to do for public understanding.
35:55
SPEAKER_01: But I mean, look, obviously affordability in the economy is I mean, look at the Iran War.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: Our dependence on fossil fuels means that a conflict thousands
36:04
SPEAKER_01: of miles away is making it more expensive for us to fill up our cars
36:07
SPEAKER_01: and heat our homes.
36:08
SPEAKER_01: So how do you talk honestly about affordability and
36:23
SPEAKER_01: If you're leaving that out,
36:25
SPEAKER_01: I think there's a big reason to question this whole premise
36:28
SPEAKER_01: that climate does not swing votes.
36:31
SPEAKER_01: Economist Matt Burgess at the University of Wyoming studied
36:35
SPEAKER_01: the 2020 presidential election and estimated that if climate change had not been
36:40
SPEAKER_01: an issue in the 2020 election,
36:42
SPEAKER_01: Republicans might have gained a three-point swing in the popular vote.
36:47
SPEAKER_01: And that would have handed the election to Trump.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: So...
36:51
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: I would be a little more skeptical of anyone telling Democrats
36:54
SPEAKER_01: that keeping quiet is how they win.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: I think people deserve to know how climate change and fossil fuels are affecting their lives.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: They deserve to know who's making money at their expense.
37:05
SPEAKER_01: And they deserve to know what their elected leaders can and are going to do
37:09
SPEAKER_01: about it, especially when they're deciding who they're going to vote for.
37:13
SPEAKER_02: Emily, I agree with you.
37:16
SPEAKER_01: Shocker.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: All right.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's all we have for this episode.
37:22
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37:50
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37:55
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for listening.
37:56
SPEAKER_01: We'll be back with another Myth Debunking episode soon.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for your support.