Latest / Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast / Issue 348: Ruins of War

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Issue 348: Ruins of War · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

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We must be cautious. Welcome to the net party. Hi, this is
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Nick Anstasu, story editor on Star Wars, The Clone Wars and Star Wars
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bad Batch, and you are listening to Aggressive Negotiations. Thank you once again
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for joining us here on Aggressive Negotiations, the Star Wars podcast that looks at
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things from a different point of view. I'm one of your hosts, Jedi
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Master John Mills, and joining me as we continue our journey of a rewatch
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of bad Batch season two as we hype ourselves up for season three, is
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Jedi Master Matthew Rushing. Matt are you ready to return to Sereno for the
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second episode of season two, Ruins of War. I'm very excited to be
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able to finish up this a little duology that they kind of began the season
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with for season two, and it just feel like it's interesting how I think
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this season really kind of set it self apart from season one and the first
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I think three episodes do such a good job in the end of explaining where
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every single character that we followed in season one is now in season two,
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and I think this second episode does that specifically, I think for Omega.
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So I'm very excited to be able to talk through this episode because I think
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it's so key to what they're going to of course do this entire season,
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And like Matt said, it does set itself apart, and you can set
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yourself apart by dropping off a star rating and review on Apple Podcasts for the
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show. If you haven't yet, we'd appreciate it. If it's not the
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worst show you've ever heard, go on and give us a five star,
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because that'd be great and swell and help get us into other people's feeds so
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that they who can share your love of Star Wars. And of course we're
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on the social networks, the primary one being Twitter at the Jedi Masters and
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the network at join Nerd Party. Matt, just to tee it up,
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we come out of a cliffhanger in Spoils of War, setting up Ruins of
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War and where we're left hanging. Did you have any expectation for where the
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show was going to start from, Like, how did you think we were
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going to tee up for the Resolve? Obviously we have the falling Container,
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we have high jinks going on on the planet, all of those sorts of
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things. Was there anything that you were particularly expecting to start as this arc
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continued. I mean I figured that we would you know, probably open the
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episode the way we do with you know, the falling container, so that
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we could you know, get them to the ground basically. However that was
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going to happen, so that the rest of the episode could play out because
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you know, we I figured we were going to escape Sorrento by the end
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of the episode, and I think they did a good job of doing that.
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You know. One, I think again, by starting with the container
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and the way in which you have Omega, who's become such a key and
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integral part of this group. You know, it's been her solution for this,
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you know, to get on the container, knowing how it works,
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the fact that it's supposed to slow them down and all that. And I
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just thought the way in which we do all of this was kind of great
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and it's interesting too. I mean, this the whole container part of the
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story. It has so many Last Crusade references, you know, with like
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you know, it lands, but then the tank goes over, aka,
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the container goes over. You know, you have Omega dealing with the desire
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to get the treasure, you know, and not wanting to let it go,
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and you know, being called to let it go. But then I
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think beyond that, there's the undercurrent as to why Omega is feeling like this,
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and she's feeling responsible for the predicament that the Clones are in in the
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first place. She feels like as if it's her fault. And I love
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her dealing with those feelings because I think one of the things that does is,
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you know, so many times with kid things and kids in stories like
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this, it's almost like we forget their kids, right, And I think
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this season really remembers that Omega is so young, you know, I mean,
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she's not even like Luke Skywalker or a Leya age, and so she's
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she's still very young, and she's lived an incredibly sheltered life too, and
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so it just I really really appreciate the fact that this episode, I think
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does a great job of focusing on her and her journey of realizing that she's
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truly loved by these clones and that in some ways, like is said in
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the episode, now you saved us, you know, we could possibly have
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just either be dead at this point if it wasn't for our connection with you,
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or you know, who knows maybe maybe it would have been harder to
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resist the call of order sixty six, you know, without you there.
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So I think that all of that is just a long winded way to say.
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I think this episode just does such a great job following up the first
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episode, but I think specifically for where it just sets Omega as a character
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and kind of where her ARC's going to go throughout the rest of the season.
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Yeah, naturally, I agree, And I think when we were talking
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about season one we touched on that too, or like, Omega is literally
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the same age as these clones, and but she's getting an opportunity at having
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a childhood, which is something they never even had an opportunity at. Basically
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like the key moment where their military training, you know, as micro clones
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would have you know, we see the bank of young Djangos all lined up,
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and that's the childhood yep. And Omega is didn't even get that one,
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that very you know, the structured training sort of childhood. She had
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an even more sheltered childhood. So she's getting. It's funny because her freedom
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to be individual and follow her own path is specifically because these clones are her
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father figures who are in and of themselves unique among clones because of their own
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abilities to be truly independent, because you know, when you get back to
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it too, it's so it's so wild that the whole selling point of Clones,
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when the kamin Owens are talking to Obi Wan when they think he's there
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on behalf of Siphodias, is clones can think creatively, which is something that
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battle droids can't do, and moments like this emphasize the fact that they bread
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living beings to think creatively, only to try to drive that out of them,
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to force them to follow orders without question, which is exactly what droids
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do. So I think moments like this Omega expressing legitimate human childhood really casts
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that into relief. I like the fact you call out the Last Crusade references
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too, because we had a Raiders reference at the beginning of the first episode.
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We have some Last Crusade in here, and we all know this is
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a rewatch. We know we're going to get more Indiana Jones' references scattered throughout
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the season, which are going to be delightful in their own right. But
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joining the Clones this time is the voice talent of Hector Alizondo as a Serenian
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native who acts as our sort of spirit guide that they encounter. What did
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you think of Alexondo's voice performance. Oh, he's great, you know.
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I think he just has such a wonderful voice. And you know, I
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think he was the perfect choice for a character like this because in some ways
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he has such a distinctive voice, the same way like Christopher Lee does,
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you know, And so the idea that Sirenians kind of have these distinctive voices
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is I think voice and accent are such an important part of Star Wars,
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you know, when we kind of saw that the Twelex kind of have this
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French accent and things like that. You know, So this I think really
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helped build the idea of the Serenians as a people. But I also just
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love him as a character for the way in which he He reminds us that,
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you know, Dooku is one Serenian, but there were many many others
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who might not have supported him. And you know, it reminds you that
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in every country, you know, regardless of the politics of that country,
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that doesn't mean that every single person in that country supports what that country stands
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for, right, And so I think it really brings that to light,
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I think in a really good way. It's not banging you over the head
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with it. But also, you know, the character does such a great
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job of bringing out that idea of teaching Omega what it means to be a
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child, which is just to have some fun with a toy. She has
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no understanding of the idea of toy really other than I mean we see her,
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you know, she has the Tuka doll, but other than that,
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like the idea of of something not being just for utility but for enjoyment is
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something that she has a really hard time understanding. And I just again,
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I think to follow back up where we started, like, yeah, Hector
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Alizondo does such a great job of doing this, you know. I mean,
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he's been doing this for a long time too, with these type of
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roles. I think of him and like the Princess Diaries back in the day,
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right, you know, where he's the loving person that kind of shows
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her what it means to be you know, this princess but at the same
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time true to herself type of thing. And so yeah, he's the character's
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fantastic and the choice of him to play this character was I think inspired really
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just as a side note. My favorite memory of a performance from Hector Alizondo
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was in I was in Las Vegas and he my friend I was with,
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was like, oh, oh, we're going to do all of these free
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things. So we went to a test screening for a show that ultimately never
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made it to air, but I remember the show was eh, it was
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okay, but he was in it, and I remember like every scene with
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him in it, I was like, oh, a plus. And then
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the rest of the show, I was like, that's a ci But I
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think also the character, and you know, you call out how not every
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Serenian supported what Dooku was doing. I think that there are two points that
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attach that that are really important. The first being when you get into a
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war, the people are punished for what their leaders do, not what they
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necessarily believe, which is a terrible thing. That is one of the worst,
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most heartbreaking parts of a war. And the whole exercise of bad Batch
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has been to illustrate how monstrously awful the Clone Wars were because we understand it,
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especially in the context of the movies, of this master plan that Palpatine
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has set in motion, and we understand it on this intellectual level of Oh
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my gosh, look at this. Master Sharkey was playing both sides. But
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then bad Batch has a moment like this where it drills really down to the
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idea that this guy's not even a pawn. He's he doesn't even get any
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say in what happens, and he's just he gets punished for it and then
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ultimately and this might seem weird to key in on, but because we're doing
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sort of that deep dive sort of thing. His speech where he talks about
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how Dooku was basically it was more and will probably have to beleep me.
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He was more accountant. Like he talks about how leaders do these things to
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enrich themselves and for their own prestige and their own power, and it's not
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for the good of the people's sort of thing. And I just I see
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that meme. That's the It looks like a painting of when Carl Weather's Rest
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in Peace and Arnold Schwarzenegger do that Grasp and Predator, and you have the
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two sides and then the thing in the middle that they actually agree on.
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And like this guy in that moment gives a speech where it's like you can
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label one of them left, one of them right, and then in the
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center our leaders suck. Yeah, it's like that's always where everybody's going to
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come together. And so it's like it's one of those things where it's like
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it's exactly what Star Wars is supposed to be, which is a character or
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a situation giving us a universal thing that both sides can walk away with and
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say, okay, well, how would we resolve that? Then? How
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can we get past that so it doesn't happen? Yeah? No, I
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think that's an excellent point as to especially what this character does just in terms
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of the Star Wars storytelling, and I think the depth that we're getting it
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in a show like this, I think is fantastic. You know. Character
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wise, two, I was thinking of, you know that it's Echo who
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reminds Omega of what she's done for them as the Clones, and so you
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know, we're thinking of what's coming in the future here. It makes so
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much more sense that you know, she is comforted by Echo and his words
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here he's one of the people, I think who's slightly more in tune with
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her emotional state. You know, when you think of what Echo's gone through
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too, right, and what this group means to him, and so I
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think in some ways he can really help her to understand her place with them
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the same way they've helped him understand his place with them. And so I
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think that really leads to then against you know, we're setting the foundation for
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the things we're going to be building on throughout the entire season, and so
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you know, and I would say too, you know, on the other
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side of this, just watching Hunter and Wrecker work together was so fun because
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of course they're the complete opposites of one another, but man, you know,
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watching them work together and escape and you know, I think what makes
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them such fun characters to watch together is the fact that, yes, they're
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actually I mean, they are complete opposites, and yet they understand one another's
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strength so well that they can work as one basically, you know, and
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they trust one another. Like when when Hunter doesn't understand what Wrecker's trying to
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build, you know, he just trusts that Recker knows what he's doing,
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he knows his job, and you know, I just that that part of
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this episode is just so much fun. And I know we both love both
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of those characters, but you know, there it's kind of that thing where
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when you have an ensemble show, and you start putting characters together that don't
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spend as much time together. This just is like the odd couple here in
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some ways for and it's it works out just so perfectly. Now I'm glad
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to say idd couple because it also gives an opportunity for something we've also praised
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about the show in the first season and then also in the most recent episode,
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is organic comedy. You can have and I know everybody's going to cringe,
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so you know what, I'll take a swipe at both. You can
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have some of the overboard stuff that jar Jar did doesn't land well. You
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can have a call for general hugs coming in at the beginning of Last Jedi
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doesn't land well. But when you put Hunter and Record together, the mere
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virtue of their personalities not intertwining, you have natural comedy, and it's actual
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comedy because you're laughing at something that is very relatable. Two different people trying
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to find the same solution, Hi Jensen, Sue, but you're rooting for
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both of them. You want them both to win, obviously, and you
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know, on a more even more lizard brain level than I'm a Star Wars
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fan, and these are the heroes and I'm cheering for them. It's you
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enjoy the interaction. The thing that will always stick out with this episode,
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though, and this is something I think that bad Batch gets really good at
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doing in season two, is the tiny moments at the end, and specifically,
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you know the one I'm building up to, when Rampart decides he has
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to execute somebody because they won't toe the party line, what you have is,
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despite this speech about how terrible Dooku was, about the state of Republic
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and separatist, about the Clones working together, overcoming our differences, all of
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this sort of thing, the fog of war, who gets punished, you
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have this little moment demonstrating the Empire's even worse than any of that. And
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I think that it's very necessary to point out specifically because this is a lot
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like where Anakin has to have certain atrocities attached to him because Vader had become
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an anti hero and people were cheering for him to become Invader, and you
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know that, one of the things I've always loved about episode three is Lucas
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recognized that and said, no, okay, well, we're going to take
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care of that cheering for Vader part here he's actually a monster. Let's remind
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everybody, but reminding everybody of the intrinsically awful, awful side of the Empire,
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right, which has given us other villains to cheer for, like Thrang,
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or people to relish their evil like Tarkin, who's like the old serial
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villain ramparts act actually makes the Empire horrifying because you suddenly realize how evil it
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is and how it's different than anything. Like Palpatine goes from somebody where you're
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like, oh, hey, he's a mustache twirling villain to oh, this
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is the galaxy under his rule. Oh, now I know why we need
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Luke Skywalker to come along. Well, And I'm glad you brought that up
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because I think when it also shows is the way in which, uh,
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you know, we thought things were bad during the Clone Wars, and you
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thought people were being selfish then, but Palpatine has unleashed this ability for people
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in his organization to be utterly selfish, to be working all for their own
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little fiefdoms, and they're playing their own little games in ways that truly,
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you know, begin to ruin people's lives in ways that we didn't even possible,
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right, And you know, we know Tarkan did that, we know
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Krenick dig that, we you know, It's one of the beauties of Rogue
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one is the way it builds that character. And you know, Ramparts another
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character like that right where you're seeing that were its way through the Empire so
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early. And you know what's great about to with little scene with Rampart.
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Of of course we know where this is going to go because this is a
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rewatch and we're going to we know what's going to happen to his character,
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and it's like we know how Palpatine is then going to use that for his
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benefit. Mm hmmm. So there. The beauty of this is that there's
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games within games within games being played. Uh. And the base level game
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here is these bureaucrats uh and these you know, these new military leaders in
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the Empire. They all begin to think they have their own little you know,
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thiefdoms to be able to do basically what they want in and get themselves
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higher up the food chain. But what they don't realize is they're they're just
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playing a game that Palpatine wants them to be playing so that he can use
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them and any mistake they make as being able to point to corruption or you
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know, make him himself the savior and and and so yeah, I mean,
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I'm just really glad that you pulled that out because it is one of
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those moments there at the end. We're so used to the series kind of
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ending with wonderful little moments between our hero characters, but this is the season
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where things a lot of the episodes end with terrible moments, either for the
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hero characters or for things going on in the background. And it's like,
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oh, you know, this is where I think this season truly is becoming
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and is the you know, the Empire strikes back season for these characters.
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And so it's it's good stuff and already and this you know, wrap up
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of the duology for the opening of the season, it ends on such an
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ominous note, and it just, I think it again, it's differentiating itself
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from the first season and letting us know, we thought things were kind of
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bad, but they're way worse than we thought. Yes they are. And
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I think that one of the great opportunities is that it's world building through character
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moments, which is really the best way to do world building. And when
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you have a series, you have the opportunity to do that. And I
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would say that as much praise as I've had for some other efforts, an
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episode like this and just that little moment at the end illustrates the fact that
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Bad Batch is legitimately a template that other shows should be looking at for how
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to handle story and world building through character. And I wish that some of
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the other shows we've gotten would go back and yes, I know the whole
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history of animation, but because we're talking about Bad Batch, it's happening right
22:45
in front of you right now. Everybody pay attention to what these people are
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doing over here, because they're doing it right, and hold that up as
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your template for how to approach certain things. Yeah, I mean, and
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I think the beauty of the way in which this show is done. I
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mean you can go from fun to silly, to light to airy, to
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dark, to gritty to terrifying and all and under, you know, twenty
23:17
minutes in one episode, you know, And I think that's the that's the
23:21
thing here. But again it's it's you know, these these first two episodes
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together, I think really are setting the stage for something, you know,
23:32
pretty ominous. And that's what I love about, you know, this opening
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for season two Yeah, Well, this is the opening for season two,
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and we know we're going to some really interesting places throughout season two, So
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I'd say we both give this arc Spoils and Ruins of War these two episodes
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high marks as it tease up what we're about to go into. But before
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we get there, Master Rushing, where can people find you out there in
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the wilds of the Internet. Well, just search any of the social media
24:04
platforms for Matt Rushing zero two. If I'm there, you'll find me.
24:07
I would love to interact with you. You can also, of course find
24:11
me here outside Aggressive Negotiations with Al Post talking about every single chapter of the
24:15
Harry Potter series, one chapter of Time with Dre Kaufman, and then you'll
24:19
find me over on the TFM network with a bunch of shows. The six
24:22
Poho two Club is a great place to hang out where you'll have myself and
24:29
many others talking about all of the different franchises and fandoms that we love.
24:33
You'll also find me doing literary tracks the Orb Warp five, The Artificial Tango
24:37
and Saddle Up But John, If people wanted to see what else you've got
24:42
going on or what latest bad bat shirt you might be wearing that day.
24:48
Where can they find you? Well, gosh, I wish I was wearing
24:51
a bad Bat shirt every day during this rewatch. But alas, you can
24:55
find me on the wilds of the Internet as Cassel Junkie, and you can
24:59
find me right here on the network, co hosting a show called house Lights
25:03
where we look at the work of directors and obviously they're movies, and we
25:07
have a lot of fun with it, a couple of yucks along the way.
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But Master Rushing, I think that we have a successfully returned from our
25:15
mission exploring Serrento, and it's time now to turn our attention toward a bad
25:21
Batch character we haven't seen yet. So I think it's time to close these
25:25
negotiations. John, negotiations are closed. Join the Revolution, Join the Nerd Party.