Latest / The Bible Explained with Jenn Kokal / James 5:9-20 - The Prayer of Faith and Healing - With Guest Speaker Garett Kokal

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James 5:9-20 - The Prayer of Faith and Healing - With Guest Speaker Garett Kokal · The Bible Explained with Jenn Kokal

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Speaker 1: Life Audio.
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Speaker 2: How do you And good morning friends and faithful listeners,
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Speaker 2: and welcome to the Bible Explain podcast. On this lovely
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Speaker 2: Thursday morning, you're going to hear something special today. You
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Speaker 2: are going to hear a couple dogs running around because
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Speaker 2: we are watching my sister in law's dog at this moment,
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Speaker 2: a big old bloodhound. And you're also going to hear
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Speaker 2: a very special guest today. And this is my most
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Speaker 2: requested guest to date. This is my wonderful husband, Garrett.
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Speaker 2: So the reason I wanted Garrett to be on the
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Speaker 2: podcast today is because we are going to be talking
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Speaker 2: about James Chapter five, verses nine through twenty, and this
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Speaker 2: portion talks about elders, and my husband is an elder.
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Speaker 2: And I got to say, when the youth group students
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Speaker 2: heard that my husband was an elder, they were absolutely
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Speaker 2: delighted because the joke is that my husban and is
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Speaker 2: very very old because he is, and so now we
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Speaker 2: call him elder Garrett.
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Speaker 1: Yes, the students love pointing out that they are young
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Speaker 1: and I am not.
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Speaker 2: Yes, they absolutely love teasing my husband about his age
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Speaker 2: and also that he is completely bold, which I mean
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Speaker 2: I tease him about that kind of stuff too, so
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Speaker 2: are you. Yeah, you guys don't know. I am completely bold.
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Speaker 2: I don't have legs either, because you only see from
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Speaker 2: the waist up. Just Ai, Yeah, it's just it's all Ai.
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Speaker 2: All right, we're gonna get into James chapter five nine
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Speaker 2: through twenty right after a quick message from a sponsor.
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Speaker 2: All right, thankfully, my husband is going to be doing
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Speaker 2: the majority of this episode today because well he just
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Speaker 2: found out about that and he gave me a look.
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Speaker 2: But I have a sore throat. It is time for
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Speaker 2: my every other month cold that I have seen to
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Speaker 2: be getting since I don't know, twenty twenty two. So
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Speaker 2: I have a sore throat and my husband is mostly
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Speaker 2: going to do this episode for me, which is great.
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Speaker 2: I'll be around and I'll be asking questions and probably
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Speaker 2: arguing with him on occasion. But yeah, this is going
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Speaker 2: to be James chapter five nine through twenty today, So
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Speaker 2: grab your Bible out of the version that you prefer,
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Speaker 2: but I'll be reading it from the we b today.
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Speaker 2: Don't grumble brothers against one another so that you won't
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Speaker 2: be judged. Behold the judge stands at the door. Take
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Speaker 2: brothers for an example of suffering and of perseverance. The
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Speaker 2: prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. Behold,
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Speaker 2: we call them blessed who endured. You have heard of
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Speaker 2: the perseverance of job and have seen the Lord in
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Speaker 2: the outcome, and how the Lord is full of compassion
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Speaker 2: and mercy. But above all things, my brothers, don't swear,
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Speaker 2: not by heaven or by the earth, or by any
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Speaker 2: other oath. But let your yes be yes, and your
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Speaker 2: no no, so that you don't fall into hypocrisy. Is
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Speaker 2: any am you suffering, Let him pray? Is any cheerful?
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Speaker 2: Let him sing praises? Is any among you sick? Let
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Speaker 2: him call for the elders of the assembly, and let
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Speaker 2: them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the
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Speaker 2: name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will
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Speaker 2: heal him who is sick, and the Lord will raise
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Speaker 2: him up. If he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
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Speaker 2: Confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another,
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Speaker 2: that you may be healed. The insistent prayer of a
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Speaker 2: righteous person is powerfully effective. Elijah was a man with
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Speaker 2: a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it
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Speaker 2: might not rain. And it didn't rain. On the earth
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Speaker 2: for three years and six months. He prayed again, and
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Speaker 2: the sky gave rain and the earth produced its fruit. Brothers,
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Speaker 2: if any among you wanders away from the truth and
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Speaker 2: someone turns him back, let him know that he who
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Speaker 2: turns a sinner from the error of his way will
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Speaker 2: save a soul from death and will cover a multitude
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Speaker 2: of sins. Okay, So, to this day, even though I
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Speaker 2: have been doing this podcast for about seven years, I
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Speaker 2: still have not figured out how to hook up two
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Speaker 2: microphones to my focus right yet. So my husband and
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Speaker 2: I are in quite close quarters right now, which is
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Speaker 2: usually why I don't have guests come to the studio
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Speaker 2: because it can get really awkward really fast. But you know,
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Speaker 2: my husband and I are married, so it should be okay,
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Speaker 2: all right, Garrett. So James five nine through eleven talks
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Speaker 2: about this idea of the judge standing at the door
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Speaker 2: and so we shouldn't be grumbling against each other. But
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Speaker 2: it also mentions the perseverance of the saints and the prophets,
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Speaker 2: specifically mentioning Job. So what does this mean to you
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Speaker 2: and can you explain how all of this ties together?
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Speaker 1: The reference to the profits in Job is actually pretty
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Speaker 1: straightforward the profits when we look at what the profits
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Speaker 1: we're preaching in the Old Testament, and even what's reiterated
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Speaker 1: so many times in the New Testament is this simple
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Speaker 1: message of repentance. So many times today we can think
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Speaker 1: about prophecy as predicting the future or some sort of
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Speaker 1: word from God that says what's to come. But so
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Speaker 1: many of the prophets were abused, were murdered, were just
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Speaker 1: persecuted for the fact that they didn't come to say
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Speaker 1: what good things are coming for your future, which they
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Speaker 1: did in Jesus, but they were often just saying repent
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Speaker 1: to Israel, or God's judgment will come on you. And
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Speaker 1: we can see right at the beginning of this, don't
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Speaker 1: grumble brothers against one another so you won't be judged. Behold,
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Speaker 1: the judge stands at the door. The prophets wanted you
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Speaker 1: to repent so that the judge who was near, and
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Speaker 1: for us reading this now, the judge is near, and
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Speaker 1: that judge is Jesus Christ. We don't know when the
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Speaker 1: second coming is, and this could be talking about the
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Speaker 1: judges at the door, because it could happen any day.
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Speaker 1: But whether or not I'm alive for that I know
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Speaker 1: that I will be judged if he comes now or
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Speaker 1: if I go to him when I die. The Judge
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Speaker 1: stands at the door. He sees what we're doing, he
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Speaker 1: sees the way that we're living, and it's really important
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Speaker 1: that we pay attention to the prophetic message of repentance.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, how does it tie together with the perseverance
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Speaker 2: of Job, specifically with God standing at the door and
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Speaker 2: judging us, because it says, right here, don't grumble brothers
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Speaker 2: against one another so that you won't be judged. Behold,
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Speaker 2: the Judge stands at the door. Take brothers for an
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Speaker 2: example of suffering and of perseverance. The prophets who spoke
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Speaker 2: in the name of the Lord, behold, we call them
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Speaker 2: blessed who endured. You have heard of the perseverance of
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Speaker 2: Job and have seen the Lord in the outcome, and
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Speaker 2: how the Lord is full of compassion and mercy. So specifically,
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Speaker 2: how does job tie into not grumbling against your brother?
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Speaker 1: Essentially, while the entire story of Job is and is
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Speaker 1: just a historical account of somebody who is tormented by Satan,
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Speaker 1: had so many things stripped away from him, taken from him,
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Speaker 1: so many sufferings that he was put through. He was tested,
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Speaker 1: and he was tested in ways that I don't believe
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Speaker 1: anybody can relate to. It's just so much more than
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Speaker 1: we can say we've ever gone through. But he persevered,
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Speaker 1: and even more so, he had people coming to him
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Speaker 1: and grumbling, and they were grumbling, not even against him
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Speaker 1: in some cases, yes, but they were grumbling against God.
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Speaker 1: And so they were casting their judgments and job was persevering,
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Speaker 1: and he was persevering in the other direction where he
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Speaker 1: was suffering. He was covered in lesions, he had lost everything,
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Speaker 1: and he was still turning and defending God. And that's
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Speaker 1: the perseverance that we want to have. The judge is near,
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Speaker 1: the judges at the door, we want to be defending him.
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Speaker 1: We want to be on his side when he.
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Speaker 2: Enters, right yeah, and living as if he's at the door,
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Speaker 2: whether or not we know exactly when he's coming. As
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Speaker 2: you said earlier, and actually on Tuesday, I mentioned verse eight,
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Speaker 2: which says be patient, establish your hearts for the coming
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Speaker 2: of the Lord is at hand, and I mentioned how
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Speaker 2: it doesn't really like that verse can either be talking
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Speaker 2: about our own life span, like we are going to
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Speaker 2: die at any given time. We don't know when or
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Speaker 2: it could be talking about Jesus's second coming, and since
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Speaker 2: we don't know exactly when Jesus is going to return,
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Speaker 2: that means that we have to be on guard at
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Speaker 2: all points. So this means be patient for Jesus's coming,
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Speaker 2: and it also means stop grumbling against your fellow brothers
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Speaker 2: and sisters in Christ, which I mean the whole book
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Speaker 2: of James ties together so well because James is already
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Speaker 2: talking about that point. What either in chapter four or three,
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Speaker 2: I'm not sure which one, but I mean, James has
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Speaker 2: been repeating himself over and over and over again of
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Speaker 2: how the church should be conducting itself in these last days.
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Speaker 2: And it all comes back down to loving your brothers
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Speaker 2: and sisters and waiting patiently for Jesus's return.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that can be continued in the way that
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Speaker 1: Job is presented to us here, because it's not just
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Speaker 1: the perseverance of Job that we're told to look at,
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Speaker 1: but how he has seen and we have seen the
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Speaker 1: Lord in the outcome, and how the Lord is full
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Speaker 1: of compassion and mercy. Verse eleven says, behold, we call
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Speaker 1: them blessed who endured, And for me, that connects strongly
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Speaker 1: into the letters and revelation, because Jesus ends each one
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Speaker 1: of those letters with a promise of what's to come.
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Speaker 1: Now doesn't say those who endured, even though he tells
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Speaker 1: some of the churches that they are going to endure
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Speaker 1: and that's what they should be doing. But he says,
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Speaker 1: to the one who conquers, and to the one who conquers,
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Speaker 1: he promises, and he promises more than job ever received
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Speaker 1: on earth. He promises to eat from the tree of life.
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Speaker 1: He promises that their name will never be stricken from
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Speaker 1: the Book of Life. He says that they will never
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Speaker 1: experience the second death. They will be given a new
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Speaker 1: name written on a white stone, only known by them
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Speaker 1: and God. And there's more. But that is not for
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Speaker 1: those who simply know of Jesus, and it's not for
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Speaker 1: those who simply act in a certain way. There's a conquering,
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Speaker 1: there's an enduring, there's an obedience to God. This's necessary
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Speaker 1: and that's why James is ending here with such a
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Speaker 1: call for remembering all the prophets and even the message
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Speaker 1: that Jesus brings. The Gospel message has inside of it
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Speaker 1: repent and repentance is something that we can often stray from.
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Speaker 1: We want to follow Jesus. We want to be Christians,
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Speaker 1: but to do that we have to turn away from
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Speaker 1: the way that we live.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it's good that you tied it
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Speaker 2: into the churches in Revelation that Jesus addresses, because I mean,
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Speaker 2: what is Jesus doing When he's addressing those churches. He's
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Speaker 2: essentially judging them for the good things that they do
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Speaker 2: or the bad things that they do. So yeah, I
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Speaker 2: mean it ties in absolutely perfectly. If you guys are
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Speaker 2: interested in reading through the letters that Jesus gives to
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Speaker 2: the churches. I believe that's Revelation two and three. But
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Speaker 2: moving forward, in James five, it says verse twelve, but
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Speaker 2: above all things, my brothers, don't swear, not by heaven
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Speaker 2: or by earth, or by any other oath. But let
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Speaker 2: your yes be yes, and your no no, so that
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Speaker 2: you don't fall into hypocrisy. So I mean, I mentioned
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Speaker 2: the other day that I feel like I'm referencing the
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Speaker 2: Sermon on the Mountain more in the Book of James
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Speaker 2: than I ever have before. And again right here, James
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Speaker 2: refers back to Jesus's sermon in Matthew five through seven.
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Speaker 2: Let your yes be yes and your no no, I
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Speaker 2: believe when Jesus talks about it, he mentions that anything
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Speaker 2: other than yes or no is from the evil one,
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Speaker 2: which I find that kind of interesting. Can you expand
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Speaker 2: on that a little bit more, Garrett.
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Speaker 1: Well, when Jesus is teaching us in the Sermon on
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Speaker 1: the Mount, obviously that is the most influential sermon that's
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Speaker 1: ever been given. It's written in scripture twice in its entirety,
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Speaker 1: and referenced here in so many other places. But there's
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Speaker 1: this call that Jesus makes, and then James is now
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Speaker 1: repeating that Christians are to live a specific way and
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Speaker 1: that way is honest. And he doesn't just say let
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Speaker 1: your yes be yes, but he also adds in there,
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Speaker 1: let your no be no. When you commit to something,
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Speaker 1: follow through. If you commit to do something, do it.
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Speaker 1: If you commit not to do something, don't do it.
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Speaker 1: Anything beyond that, you fall into this realm of hypocrisy
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Speaker 1: where you start trapping yourself. Hey, I'm going to do
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Speaker 1: this thing. You let yourself get busy, you didn't prioritize
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Speaker 1: it enough, and now you've become a hypocrite. Now you've
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Speaker 1: become weaker in the eyes of the person that you
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Speaker 1: promised that to. And this is not simple things. I mean,
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Speaker 1: in all things, we're supposed to conduct ourselves this way.
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Speaker 1: But we can see that it's above all things. My
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Speaker 1: brothers don't swear not by heaven or by earth, or
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Speaker 1: by any other oath. Sometimes we do things and we
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Speaker 1: give these these promises when talking to students. The one
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Speaker 1: that I always go back to is remember to take
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Speaker 1: that thing out of the freezer at a certain time,
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Speaker 1: and you don't remember until you hear the garage opening.
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Speaker 2: I remember those days.
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Speaker 1: Nothing thaws that fast. So no matter what you're caught,
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Speaker 1: when you say that you're going to do something, there
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Speaker 1: are consequences to doing it, And when you say you're
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Speaker 1: not going to do something, there are consequences to not
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Speaker 1: doing it. And so we need to be putting weight
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Speaker 1: on what we say always Otherwise how can people trust
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Speaker 1: anything that we say if we're not putting weight on anything.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's a good point. And Christians are
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Speaker 2: supposed to, you know, conduct ourselves in the way where
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Speaker 2: we share the gospel about Jesus. And so if somebody
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Speaker 2: sees that we're flaky, essentially, how can they trust us
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Speaker 2: about the gospel message? Because people are watching our lives
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Speaker 2: and so that's a really excellent points that you make here. Now,
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Speaker 2: does this mean that you know we can't ever change
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Speaker 2: our minds about something? Is that what James is talking
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Speaker 2: about here? Or is it something a little bit bigger
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Speaker 2: than that.
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Speaker 1: Well, it's obviously something bigger than that. This is an oath,
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Speaker 1: a promise. This is something like our marital vows. We
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Speaker 1: went and we made an oath to each other. We
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Speaker 1: made vows to be married, and that is something that
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Speaker 1: we cannot and should not go back on by any reason.
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Speaker 1: And the reasons that even is allowed in the Bible
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Speaker 1: are allowed because of our fallen nature, not because of
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Speaker 1: God's desire for marriage. But those types of promises are
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Speaker 1: what's being talked about here. But I think that it
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Speaker 1: goes farther. It definitely goes into your day to day life.
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Speaker 1: You've probably heard before the Christians saying about your testimony
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Speaker 1: or compromising your testimony or weakening your testimony. If you
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Speaker 1: are regularly not reliable, if you are regularly saying things
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Speaker 1: and being found to be a liar in the small thing,
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Speaker 1: who's going to trust you with the big things? You
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Speaker 1: represent Christ? And when you fall through on people so
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Speaker 1: many times in a row. Well, when you find that
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Speaker 1: opportunity to have a conversation about Christ, they're going to
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Speaker 1: remember all of the times that you didn't come through.
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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sorry. I just have to address the wedding
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Speaker 2: vows thing. So are you saying that wedding vows are wrong? Like?
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Speaker 2: I just want to you expand on that.
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Speaker 1: Some ways, yes, really, Okay, we're told not to make
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Speaker 1: vows period and in some ways when we have it
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Speaker 1: as a tradition and as a pattern, I do think
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Speaker 1: that they are wrong. The only reason that they're right
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Speaker 1: is because of how fallen we are that we need it,
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Speaker 1: we need to make these bigger promises. But if we
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Speaker 1: were living the way that Jesus wants us to live,
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Speaker 1: if we were acting as true Christians, true followers of Christ,
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Speaker 1: then when a man and a woman said that they
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Speaker 1: would be together forever, no ceremony would be needed, no
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Speaker 1: pastor would be needed to marry them, and no witnesses
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Speaker 1: would be needed because God witnessed it, and the two
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Speaker 1: people are conducting themselves as Christians and there is no
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Speaker 1: vow necessary. We can see that being called out here
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Speaker 1: in James and like you said earlier, this is directly
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Speaker 1: out of the mouth of Jesus. If your yes is
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Speaker 1: yes and your no is no, what more does a
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Speaker 1: wedding vow bring you? If you can trust that person wholeheartedly.
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Speaker 2: It's a good point because when Jesus made the two
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Speaker 2: people in the garden, I don't think they made any vow.
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Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure Jesus was just or God was just like,
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Speaker 2: here is your wife, Adam, and Eve, here is your husband.
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Speaker 2: So I mean, yeah, that does make some sense, but
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Speaker 2: I don't know if I would say that. You know,
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Speaker 2: it's that we shouldn't be taking wedding vows because you know, again,
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Speaker 2: like you said, we are fallen individuals and maybe some
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Speaker 2: of us need that extra push, you know what I
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Speaker 2: mean that we are going to stay together with our
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Speaker 2: spouse regardless of what happens, because we made those vows
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Speaker 2: under God and in front of all of those witnesses
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Speaker 2: that were at our wedding.
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Speaker 1: I think a lot of it comes down to those witnesses.
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Speaker 1: We are supposed to confess our sins to other people
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Speaker 1: as well, and that's for the same reason I believe
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Speaker 1: we still do vows even though that it tells us
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Speaker 1: in scripture that we shouldn't do vows. It's still a
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Speaker 1: very very Christian tradition to have wedding vows. And I
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Speaker 1: think that comes down to sometimes we need the accountability.
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Speaker 1: None of us are Jesus, none of us are perfect.
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Speaker 1: And so having said these vows in front of people,
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Speaker 1: I'm not just accountable to my wife then, but her
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Speaker 1: family was there and my family was there, and I'm
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Speaker 1: accountable to them as well.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's actually a perfect segue into the next
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Speaker 2: portion here of James five. So let's read verses thirteen
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Speaker 2: through eighteen. It says, is any among you suffering, let
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Speaker 2: him pray? Is any cheerful, let him saying praises? Is
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Speaker 2: any among you sick? Let him call for the elders
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Speaker 2: of the assembly, and let them pray over him, anointing
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Speaker 2: him with oil in the name of the Lord. And
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Speaker 2: the prayer of faith will heal him who is sick,
19:24
Speaker 2: and the Lord will raise him up. If he has
19:26
Speaker 2: committed sins, he will be forgiven. Confess your sins to
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Speaker 2: one another, and pray for one another that you may
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Speaker 2: be healed. The insistent prayer of a righteous person is
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Speaker 2: powerfully effective. And actually I'll stop right there for now.
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Speaker 2: But I mean it talks essentially about, you know, having
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Speaker 2: witnesses in front of you, like the elders being called
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Speaker 2: to pray over you when you're feeling sick. So this
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Speaker 2: is specifically why I wanted you to come on this
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Speaker 2: particular podcast episode, Garrett, because you are an elder and
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Speaker 2: do you have a little bit of experience in this area,
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Speaker 2: and so I'd like for you to expound on this
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Speaker 2: if you could, for all of us that are listening.
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Speaker 1: So I'll start with talking about verse fourteen. Is any
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Speaker 1: among you sick, let him call for the elders of
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Speaker 1: the assembly and let them pray over him, anointing him
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Speaker 1: with oil in the name of the Lord. This is
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Speaker 1: specifically calling out a responsibility that elders have. The way
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Speaker 1: that church structure is set up in the Bible is
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Speaker 1: it's very loose and it's very flexible. There's a lot
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Speaker 1: of room for churches to develop in countries where it's
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Speaker 1: illegal to be a Christian, and there's room for churches
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Speaker 1: to operate in our country where we God willing still
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Speaker 1: will keep our freedom to gather and to worship in public.
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Speaker 1: But elders are supposed to pray for those who are
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Speaker 1: sick in their congregation. And it's not just to pray
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Speaker 1: over the congregation, but those who are sick are supposed
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Speaker 1: to come to the elders for prayer. There's an anointing there,
20:57
Speaker 1: there's an action involved. So if the elders of your
21:01
Speaker 1: church are only gathering and praying for the congregation, but
21:05
Speaker 1: nobody's ever going up for prayer, especially with serious ailments,
21:10
Speaker 1: terminal illnesses, cancers, they should be getting prayed for by
21:14
Speaker 1: the elders directly and little aside. It was funny the
21:19
Speaker 1: first time that this happened because, like I said, it's
21:23
Speaker 1: not super well defined in scripture what the elders are
21:25
Speaker 1: to do. So when I got called to pray for somebody,
21:29
Speaker 1: I was like, I have no idea what I'm supposed
21:32
Speaker 1: to pray. And it was very touching in the moment.
21:35
Speaker 1: I do feel that the Holy Spirit was in the
21:38
Speaker 1: room with us, but it was quite the awkward event
21:42
Speaker 1: to start because I didn't know where to start. And
21:45
Speaker 1: it's heavy praying for somebody who has true and real illnesses,
21:50
Speaker 1: not a little cough that we have from time to time,
21:53
Speaker 1: but more importantly fifteen and the prayer of the faith
21:58
Speaker 1: will heal him who is sick, and the Lord will
22:00
Speaker 1: raise him up. If he has committed sins, he will
22:04
Speaker 1: be forgiven. This ties directly into Mark II, and I'm
22:07
Speaker 1: going to read one through twelve. When he entered again
22:10
Speaker 1: into Copernium after some days, it was heard that he
22:13
Speaker 1: was at home. Immediately many were gathered together, so that
22:16
Speaker 1: there was no more room, not even around the door,
22:18
Speaker 1: and he spoke the word to them. Four people came
22:22
Speaker 1: carrying a paralytic to him. When they could not come
22:25
Speaker 1: near to him for the crowd, they removed the roof
22:27
Speaker 1: where he was. When they had broken it up, they
22:30
Speaker 1: let down the mat that the paralytic was lying on. Jesus,
22:33
Speaker 1: seeing their faith, said to the paralytic son, your sins
22:37
Speaker 1: are forgiven you. But there are some of the scribes
22:40
Speaker 1: sitting there and reasoning in their hearts. Why does this
22:42
Speaker 1: man speak blasphemies like that? Who can forgive sins? But
22:45
Speaker 1: God alone? Immediately, Jesus, perceiving in his spirit that they
22:49
Speaker 1: so reasoned within themselves, said to them, why do you
22:52
Speaker 1: reason these things in your hearts? Which is easier to
22:55
Speaker 1: tell the paralytic your sins are forgiven, or to say
22:58
Speaker 1: arise and take up your bed and walk, but that
23:02
Speaker 1: you may know that the Son of Man has authority
23:04
Speaker 1: on earth to forgive sins. He said to the paralytic,
23:07
Speaker 1: I tell you, arise, take up your mat, and go
23:10
Speaker 1: to your house. He arose and immediately took up the
23:13
Speaker 1: mat and went out in front of them all. So
23:15
Speaker 1: they were all amazed and glorified God, saying, we never
23:19
Speaker 1: saw anything like this. When your elders pray over you,
23:24
Speaker 1: it is not a guarantee. There are miraculous healings. I
23:28
Speaker 1: believe that God acts in the church today. But the
23:32
Speaker 1: healing that Jesus really prioritizes, the healing that you really need,
23:37
Speaker 1: is the forgiveness of your sins. We're going to go
23:40
Speaker 1: back to James five point fifteen, and the prayer of
23:42
Speaker 1: faith will heal him who is sick, and the Lord
23:45
Speaker 1: will raise him up. If he has committed sins, he
23:49
Speaker 1: will be forgiven. James is reiterating, it is the forgiveness
23:53
Speaker 1: of the sins of the sick people that really need
23:57
Speaker 1: to be healed. It is not our ailments be because,
24:01
Speaker 1: like it says back in nine, the judge stands at
24:03
Speaker 1: the door. We're going to him We're going to die
24:07
Speaker 1: someday and whatever sicknesses we carry will be forgotten. But
24:13
Speaker 1: the sins that we carry, those have to be atoned for.
24:16
Speaker 2: You know, some of us we want to say, like
24:21
Speaker 2: reading these verses, that every single time somebody goes to
24:26
Speaker 2: an elder to get prayer, that they will be miraculously healed, right,
24:31
Speaker 2: because it says the prayer of faith will heal him
24:33
Speaker 2: who is sick and the Lord will raise him up.
24:37
Speaker 2: When I read that, I automatically think that James is
24:41
Speaker 2: talking about like physical ailments, right. And yet, just as
24:46
Speaker 2: you said, sometimes these sicknesses that we have are not
24:51
Speaker 2: necessarily healed when we go to the elders. I've actually
24:55
Speaker 2: had some people myself included, who have gone to the
24:59
Speaker 2: elders when we felt sick and are better now. But
25:04
Speaker 2: at the time, you know, when I went to the
25:05
Speaker 2: elders for prayer when I was having all my stomach
25:08
Speaker 2: stuff like two years ago, at this point I did
25:11
Speaker 2: not find immediate healing. But now I actually feel like
25:16
Speaker 2: I have experienced some healing, and I am doing significantly
25:20
Speaker 2: better than I have been. When I was first struggling
25:24
Speaker 2: with all of this, I was like God, like you
25:26
Speaker 2: promised me that I would be healed from my sickness
25:29
Speaker 2: if I went to the elders, and like, look at this,
25:31
Speaker 2: like either I don't have enough faith or you're a liar.
25:34
Speaker 2: And this was the kind of stuff that I was
25:37
Speaker 2: telling God. But through all of that, the one verse
25:40
Speaker 2: kept coming up in Second Corinthians, where Paul says that
25:45
Speaker 2: he had a thorn in his side that he begged
25:49
Speaker 2: God to get rid of three separate times, and God
25:53
Speaker 2: kept saying to him, my grace is sufficient for you.
25:56
Speaker 2: My power works best in weakness. And that verse just
26:00
Speaker 2: kept coming to me. And I never understood that verse
26:03
Speaker 2: more than when I had all of my stomach pains,
26:06
Speaker 2: because I realized that every single time I fell sick,
26:09
Speaker 2: I was going to God for his grace. I was
26:13
Speaker 2: going to God because I needed him. I needed him
26:16
Speaker 2: to sustain me in those moments. And He did actually
26:18
Speaker 2: sustain me throughout all of that sickness. And in some
26:21
Speaker 2: ways I am better now. I learned what I can eat,
26:25
Speaker 2: I learned what I can't eat now that I haven't
26:28
Speaker 2: been eating certain foods for the past two years. My
26:31
Speaker 2: migraines are gone. Like I used to get these terrible migraines,
26:34
Speaker 2: and they are no longer here. So these kinds of verses,
26:38
Speaker 2: I think are sometimes we struggle through them because we
26:41
Speaker 2: don't quite understand them. So what would you say, Garrett,
26:44
Speaker 2: to somebody who was like me reading this verse, being
26:47
Speaker 2: like I don't have enough faith or God is a
26:50
Speaker 2: liar because I went to the elders to experience healing
26:53
Speaker 2: and did not get it in the moment.
26:56
Speaker 1: Well, one of the things I say often is when
26:59
Speaker 1: you want to know what the Bible is telling you,
27:01
Speaker 1: the best place to go for definitions is the Bible.
27:04
Speaker 1: So if we even look at the healing that is
27:07
Speaker 1: talked about here in James five, well, if we go
27:11
Speaker 1: from James five point fifteen to James five sixteen, confess
27:15
Speaker 1: your sins to one another and pray for one another
27:17
Speaker 1: that you may be healed. Now, this is not talking
27:22
Speaker 1: about going and talking to each other and saying will
27:25
Speaker 1: you pray for my ailments in the same way it
27:28
Speaker 1: starts out with confess your sins to one another and
27:31
Speaker 1: pray for one another. There is an insistence here where
27:34
Speaker 1: James is saying that the church should have an attitude
27:37
Speaker 1: of repentance, an attitude of confession, and that through those
27:42
Speaker 1: things we should be praying for healing on what matters.
27:45
Speaker 1: It doesn't say that we should go to each other
27:47
Speaker 1: and talk of our ailments. In fact, when we go
27:50
Speaker 1: back and we look at thirteen, one of the things
27:53
Speaker 1: that I see jump out between thirteen and fourteen is
27:56
Speaker 1: any among you suffering? Let him pray? Is any cheerful?
27:59
Speaker 1: Let him see praise? And fourteen to paraphrase, are you sick?
28:03
Speaker 1: Go get prayed for. What it's saying is are you suffering?
28:08
Speaker 1: Turn to God? Are you happy? Turn to God? Are
28:13
Speaker 1: you ailing? Turn to God? In all things? We need
28:17
Speaker 1: to be turning to God. And when we look at
28:20
Speaker 1: only our physical ailments, when we're focused on even our
28:24
Speaker 1: impending death, are we turning to God in the right way?
28:29
Speaker 1: The church is to pray for one another for miraculous,
28:33
Speaker 1: fleshly healing. Absolutely, But what James is teaching us is
28:37
Speaker 1: the church should be praying for one another that we
28:39
Speaker 1: may conquer the sins that we struggle with to the
28:43
Speaker 1: one who conquers. That's who Jesus promises to And what
28:47
Speaker 1: are we trying to conquer other than sin? He's the
28:51
Speaker 1: one that paid that price, and in order for that price,
28:55
Speaker 1: to be paid for my sins. I can't just say
28:58
Speaker 1: the name of Jesus. I have to be a follower
29:01
Speaker 1: of Jesus. I have to obey him. And when I
29:04
Speaker 1: go and I pray for the people that I love
29:06
Speaker 1: in my church or I love in my youth group,
29:10
Speaker 1: I do pray for them to grow closer to God
29:13
Speaker 1: and to overcome any sins that people have confessed to me.
29:17
Speaker 1: And that's where the real healing happens. It does not
29:20
Speaker 1: happen in your body, but it happens in your soul.
29:24
Speaker 2: And sometimes I think that when it happens in your soul,
29:28
Speaker 2: eventually it will happen in your body. Not always guaranteed,
29:31
Speaker 2: but I do think that some of the sins that
29:33
Speaker 2: weigh us down a lot of times can affect our
29:35
Speaker 2: physical health as well. Hence, why you know, when we
29:38
Speaker 2: see Jesus casting out demons from people, a lot of
29:42
Speaker 2: the times these people were very, very sick. And when
29:46
Speaker 2: we think of like demonic influence that is spiritual through
29:49
Speaker 2: and through, so yes, I do think that if we
29:53
Speaker 2: finally get our hearts right with God, sometimes the things
29:57
Speaker 2: the spiritual sickness that we have can affect our entire
30:00
Speaker 2: bodies So that's a really good point, Garrett, and I
30:03
Speaker 2: appreciate all of that. But you know, if we truly
30:06
Speaker 2: do seek God the way that James is telling us
30:09
Speaker 2: to hear, even if we aren't healed of physical ailments,
30:13
Speaker 2: we will certainly be more clear mentally and have the
30:17
Speaker 2: peace of God reigning in our hearts and having happiness
30:22
Speaker 2: and peace and joy that can get us through any
30:25
Speaker 2: kind of sickness that we may be feeling. That is
30:27
Speaker 2: for sure, if we have not the spirit of fear,
30:31
Speaker 2: but the spirit of a sound mind that God promises
30:33
Speaker 2: to give us. So now, in verses seventeen and eighteen,
30:37
Speaker 2: it says that the insistent prayer of a righteous person
30:40
Speaker 2: is powerfully effective. Elijah was a man with a nature
30:43
Speaker 2: like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain,
30:46
Speaker 2: and it didn't rain on the earth for three years
30:48
Speaker 2: and six months. He prayed again, and the sky gave
30:51
Speaker 2: rain and the earth produced its fruit. So that obviously
30:55
Speaker 2: is talking about the Elijah of the Old Testament, And
30:58
Speaker 2: some of you faithful listeners, they remember when we went
31:01
Speaker 2: through the story of Elijah. But he actually prayed against Samaria,
31:07
Speaker 2: against Israel, that there would be a drought in that
31:12
Speaker 2: land because the Israelites were so far away from God,
31:16
Speaker 2: and God actually listened to the prayer of Elijah. And
31:18
Speaker 2: it says right here that Elijah was a man with
31:22
Speaker 2: a nature like ours. So there was nothing special about Elijah.
31:26
Speaker 2: And that's what a lot of people don't understand. I
31:27
Speaker 2: think about the Old Testament characters is that they're human beings,
31:32
Speaker 2: the same as you and I. There's no perfect person
31:35
Speaker 2: out there, and yet God listens to the prayer of
31:40
Speaker 2: a righteous person. That's what it says right here.
31:43
Speaker 1: So this is connecting to us, not praying for miracles,
31:47
Speaker 1: not praying to control the rain. James is connecting this
31:53
Speaker 1: to praying for one another in our sins that we
31:56
Speaker 1: may be healed of what's truly important. It's it's important
32:00
Speaker 1: for us to always look at these things in context,
32:02
Speaker 1: because if I were to take James five seventeen, I
32:06
Speaker 1: would think that I could pray and do great miracles
32:11
Speaker 1: in the land, which yes I could, if that is
32:16
Speaker 1: within God's will. But I don't have any control over
32:20
Speaker 1: what God's going to do through me. But what I
32:23
Speaker 1: can do is pray insistently and pray earnestly for the
32:29
Speaker 1: people in my life, and I can pray for them,
32:32
Speaker 1: not just to have peace and comfort and happiness, but
32:37
Speaker 1: I can pray that the struggles that they have, the
32:41
Speaker 1: sins that they grapple with, the sins they've confessed to me,
32:43
Speaker 1: and the sins that they will never confess to anybody,
32:46
Speaker 1: I can pray for them and that they can be healed.
32:50
Speaker 1: That's one of the powers. That's one of the things
32:52
Speaker 1: that is being promised to us here in James is
32:54
Speaker 1: that our prayer specifically for one another does carry weight.
33:00
Speaker 1: The prayer that Elijah has is being used as an example,
33:04
Speaker 1: but it is important for us to recognize where these
33:07
Speaker 1: prayers are supposed to be targeted. James is talking to
33:11
Speaker 1: the church. I love this book because that I can
33:15
Speaker 1: summarize James by saying, you're a Christian, so what what
33:21
Speaker 1: am I supposed to do? Read James? James criticizes the church.
33:26
Speaker 1: James goes after the church. James points his finger, and
33:31
Speaker 1: if you take these verses out of context, oh, you're
33:33
Speaker 1: not allowed to judge. James is a pretty big judge
33:35
Speaker 1: in this book, and I feel sharpened by james judgment
33:41
Speaker 1: in this book. But it's very important for us to
33:45
Speaker 1: recognize we are to have a healthy prayer life, and
33:49
Speaker 1: that prayer life is to be directed where things are
33:52
Speaker 1: really important, just like Jesus teaches us in Mark, it's
33:56
Speaker 1: the sins. The only thing that will separate us from
33:59
Speaker 1: God is sin.
34:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we all have sin, don't we, which actually
34:05
Speaker 2: brings us to the last two verses in James. And
34:09
Speaker 2: actually these two verses, it's crazy, are the last two
34:13
Speaker 2: verses of James. And they're so heavy, but they kind
34:16
Speaker 2: of in a sense summarize sort of everything we've talked about.
34:20
Speaker 2: In James, it says nineteen and twenty, brothers, if any
34:25
Speaker 2: among you wanders from the truth and someone turns him back,
34:28
Speaker 2: let him know that he who turns a sinner from
34:31
Speaker 2: the error of his way will save a soul from
34:34
Speaker 2: death and will cover a multitude of sins. So, I mean,
34:38
Speaker 2: James has been trying to do that this entire letter.
34:41
Speaker 2: He's trying to tell the church, you need to repent
34:44
Speaker 2: over what you've been doing. You need to turn from
34:47
Speaker 2: the error of your ways. I mean, in James three
34:50
Speaker 2: and four we went real heavy on some of the
34:52
Speaker 2: sins that the church was doing and is still doing
34:54
Speaker 2: to this day. So every single Christian should be eventually
35:00
Speaker 2: striving to be like this person that James mentions here,
35:04
Speaker 2: the person who helps turn a sinner from the error
35:07
Speaker 2: of his way. And Garrett go ahead and explain what
35:11
Speaker 2: these two verses mean in context.
35:14
Speaker 1: Okay, this is very important because it's really categorizing where
35:19
Speaker 1: somebody is so wanders from the truth. Implies that this
35:23
Speaker 1: was a Christian who has turned away. This is somebody
35:26
Speaker 1: who had been in the Word, studying their Bible, attending
35:31
Speaker 1: church in some ways, they identified as a Christian and
35:35
Speaker 1: they went astray. So this is somebody who needed to
35:39
Speaker 1: have a call to turn back again. We're going back
35:42
Speaker 1: to the theme here. They're calling for repentance. Let him know
35:46
Speaker 1: that he who turns a sinner from calling to repentance,
35:50
Speaker 1: to repent is to turn away from the error of
35:53
Speaker 1: his way. If I was to turn away and walk
35:56
Speaker 1: a path that was not in line with Christ at all,
35:59
Speaker 1: I just turned away from what I knew in Scripture
36:02
Speaker 1: and for some reason laid down what I was doing.
36:05
Speaker 1: What somebody would need to do is to call me
36:07
Speaker 1: to repentance. I need to turn away from the way
36:11
Speaker 1: that I'm going, and I need to turn back to God.
36:14
Speaker 1: The error of my way back to the only way,
36:19
Speaker 1: and that is Jesus. Jesus is the way and the truth.
36:24
Speaker 1: And we can see both of those words coming up
36:26
Speaker 1: here in nineteen and twenty wanders from the truth error
36:29
Speaker 1: of his way, and this was going to save a
36:32
Speaker 1: soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
36:35
Speaker 1: Now there's nothing here where James is saying that if
36:38
Speaker 1: you were to call somebody to repent, that you are
36:41
Speaker 1: going to then save them from their sins. But that
36:45
Speaker 1: action of calling somebody to repentance means that the payment
36:50
Speaker 1: that's there, the payment that Jesus already made for each
36:54
Speaker 1: and every one of us, that payment can be accepted.
36:59
Speaker 1: When Jesus laid down his life, he covered a multitude
37:03
Speaker 1: of sins. He covered all of our sins. And like
37:07
Speaker 1: we referenced earlier from Revelation, there's a second death coming
37:11
Speaker 1: for each and every one of us. If you have
37:14
Speaker 1: somebody that you know, that you love, that identified as Christian,
37:18
Speaker 1: that was a Christian and they've turned away, this is
37:23
Speaker 1: a challenge to you from James closing out his letter.
37:28
Speaker 1: Go call them to repentance, call them back to Christ,
37:33
Speaker 1: because without that call, they are not covered, their soul
37:38
Speaker 1: is not saved from death, and their multitude of sins
37:42
Speaker 1: will be judged on them. And that's the gospel message.
37:47
Speaker 1: The gospel message is that Jesus paid that price that
37:52
Speaker 1: our sins are covered. And the scariest and saddest part
37:56
Speaker 1: of all of this is there are people that believe
37:59
Speaker 1: that they knew him that never knew him. And that's
38:04
Speaker 1: why James calls for repentance. That's why every prophet calls
38:08
Speaker 1: for repentance. That's why Jesus in his glory calls his
38:14
Speaker 1: churches to repentance. We should always be focused on turning
38:18
Speaker 1: away from our sins and turning back to the one
38:21
Speaker 1: true way, and that is Jesus.
38:24
Speaker 2: And that was a beautiful conclusion. I do want to
38:27
Speaker 2: ask one question though, to conclude, Are you suggesting that
38:32
Speaker 2: people can lose their salvation?
38:34
Speaker 1: No, so that question is always a question that when
38:37
Speaker 1: I asked, I feel like it's the wrong question. Second,
38:41
Speaker 1: John is very clear that there is somebody who knows
38:45
Speaker 1: the truth, and the truth is in them, and everybody
38:48
Speaker 1: who has the truth in them loves that person and
38:52
Speaker 1: that truth will never depart from them. And that's saying
38:55
Speaker 1: that somebody who has wholeheartedly died to their sins and
38:59
Speaker 1: turned to Christ. In my reading, in my understanding, that
39:02
Speaker 1: person is saved and will never turn away. But in
39:07
Speaker 1: that same letter, there are those children that are talked
39:10
Speaker 1: about in that church. Those people may turn away. They
39:14
Speaker 1: can be seduced by the Antichrist by teachings, teachings not
39:19
Speaker 1: just of pagan religions, but what I like to dub
39:23
Speaker 1: Christianity plus a nine to ninety nine a month subscription.
39:27
Speaker 1: There are so many things that will seduce us away
39:29
Speaker 1: from the true way, the way that Jesus has laid
39:32
Speaker 1: out for us. And it's not a complicated way. There's
39:36
Speaker 1: no secret teachings, there's no miraculous movements that are needed
39:41
Speaker 1: to be seen in your life, but a true call
39:44
Speaker 1: to repentance, an acknowledgment of your own sins, and a
39:48
Speaker 1: turn back towards what God is calling us to do.
39:52
Speaker 1: We need to commit ourselves wholeheartedly. And if somebody has
39:57
Speaker 1: fully committed themselves, I do not believe that anything can
40:00
Speaker 1: pull them away from God. But if somebody has partially
40:04
Speaker 1: committed themselves, I believe those are the people that are
40:07
Speaker 1: in danger. So when people ask the question do you
40:10
Speaker 1: believe somebody can lose their salvation. My answers always know,
40:15
Speaker 1: and Jesus makes it clear that we don't understand where
40:18
Speaker 1: anybody else's salvation lies. We can look at judging our
40:22
Speaker 1: own hearts, and the Bible is an incredible tool to
40:25
Speaker 1: look at and to judge yourself, but to wield it
40:28
Speaker 1: outwardly and to judge another's salvation, We're never sure. That's
40:33
Speaker 1: the judgment we are not supposed to cast. When we
40:36
Speaker 1: see sin, we call it out. When we see somebody
40:39
Speaker 1: who is strayed from the path of truth, we call
40:41
Speaker 1: it out, and we call for repentance. But do we
40:44
Speaker 1: know if somebody is saved or not. We can't. And
40:47
Speaker 1: so I believe that there are people who do not
40:49
Speaker 1: know if they are saved, or maybe even they think
40:52
Speaker 1: that they are saved because of different actions that they've taken.
40:58
Speaker 1: Maybe they go to church, maybe they feel they have
41:01
Speaker 1: a gift of tongues or prophecy or miracles. But in reality,
41:05
Speaker 1: what was really important is your heart oriented towards God,
41:11
Speaker 1: and when it turns, you call yourself to repentance and
41:15
Speaker 1: you turn back.
41:17
Speaker 2: That is excellent, and it's an excellent conclusion to the book.
41:20
Speaker 2: Of James as well, where we are supposed to reflect
41:24
Speaker 2: on everything that the Bible says and apply it to
41:26
Speaker 2: our own lives, specifically when it comes to repentance as
41:29
Speaker 2: we wait for the return of Jesus. Well, thank you
41:35
Speaker 2: so much Garrett and all of you faithful listeners for
41:38
Speaker 2: tuning in to this episode. And Garrett, I say a
41:41
Speaker 2: few closing things to the audience.
41:44
Speaker 1: Happy listening and God bless.
41:48
Speaker 2: Well. With that, I guess we will conclude by doing
41:50
Speaker 2: an ad break and after that I will close all
41:53
Speaker 2: you guys out with a happy listening and God bless
41:55
Speaker 2: as Garrett just said. And today officially season eleven of
42:02
Speaker 2: the podcast. Yesterday we finished out the Book of Nehemiah,
42:05
Speaker 2: and today we finished out the Book of James. And
42:08
Speaker 2: so I hope you guys enjoyed this podcast episode that
42:11
Speaker 2: I did with my wonderful husband. And he's very knowledgeable,
42:14
Speaker 2: as you can see. I learn a lot from him, actually,
42:16
Speaker 2: and he's been a Christian for a far shorter period
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Speaker 2: than I have, and I am amazed at his wisdom
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Speaker 2: that he has in the Bible at times. But faithful listeners,
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Speaker 2: I hope you enjoyed season eleven of the podcast and
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Speaker 2: I hope to see all of you guys back, not
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Speaker 2: this upcoming week because I'm taking a week off, but
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Speaker 2: the week after that I will see all of you
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Speaker 2: for the start of the Book of Esther over on
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Speaker 2: the Old Testament side of stuff, and also season twelve
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Speaker 2: of the podcast and on the New Testament side of stuff.
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Speaker 2: We are going to be in the Book of First Peter,
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Speaker 2: and I absolutely love the writings of Peter. He is
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Speaker 2: very unique. He can definitely tell he has a different
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Speaker 2: writing style than some of the other apostles. So I'm
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Speaker 2: excited to get into the Book of First and Second
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Speaker 2: Peter with all of you guys faith listeners. Have a
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Speaker 2: wonderful rest of your day and also a wonderful rest
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Speaker 2: of your week. I will see you guys on the
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Speaker 2: seventeenth for the start of the Book of Ester. Until then,
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Speaker 2: happy listening and God bless. I just want to take
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Speaker 2: a second to thank the team at Life Audio for
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Speaker 2: their partnership with me on the Bible Explain podcast. In fact,
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Speaker 2: if you go to lifeaudio dot com you'll find dozens
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Speaker 2: of other faith centered podcasts in their network. They've got
43:28
Speaker 2: shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.