Latest / Career Pivot 123 LLC presents: Attend the Tale: Where Career Change Becomes the Best Plot Twist! / Attend the Tale, Episode 3: David Dubin

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Attend the Tale, Episode 3: David Dubin · Career Pivot 123 LLC presents: Attend the Tale: Where Career Change Becomes the Best Plot Twist!

• David: Every career has a story. Some are carefully planned, some take unexpected turns, and some blow up entirely, only to rebuild into something better than anyone imagined. This is Attend the Tale, where a career change is the best plot twist. The podcast where real people share their unfiltered stories of their career pivots, the moments that changed everything, and the lessons that can only come from living through it. Listen closely. The tale is about to begin. Darren Petronella: Every career has a story. Some are carefully planned, some take unexpected turns, and some blow up entirely, only to rebuild into something better than anyone imagined. This is A Tend the Tale, where a career change is the best plot twist. The podcast where real people share their unfiltered stories of their career pivots, the moments changed everything, and the lessons that can only come from living through it. Listen closely. The tale is about to begin. David: I'm your host, Darren Petronella, a career counselor, job coach, resume and LinkedIn strategist, university professor, and the founder of Career Pivot 123 LLC. For 20 years I've sat across from people at every stage of their careers, people who felt stuck, burnt out, overlooked, or were simply ready for something more. And in every one of those conversations, there was a story, a real human story about who they were, who they wanted to become, and what it took to get there. That's why I created this podcast. Darren Petronella: I'm your host, Darren Petronella, a career counselor, job coach, resume and LinkedIn strategist, university professor, and the founder of Career Pivot 123 LLC. For 20 years, I've sat across from people at every stage of their careers, people who felt stuck, burnt out, overlooked, were simply ready for something more. And in every one of those conversations, there was a story, a real human story about who they were, who they wanted to become, and what it took to get there. That's why I created this podcast. David: Because those stories deserve to be heard, not just by me, but by anyone out there standing at their own crossroads, wondering if a pivot is possible. Spoiler alert, it is. And today's guest is proof. My guest today is my colleague, director, and now Facebook friend, David Dubin. In first grade, David decided he wanted to be a teacher. He loved the idea of being in charge, he thinks. His first grade teacher cast him in the lead role in their Valentine's Day play. Darren Petronella: Because those stories deserve to be heard, not just by me, but by anyone out there standing at their own crossroads, wondering if a pivot is possible. Spoiler alert, it is. And today's guest is proof. My guest today is my colleague, director, and now Facebook friend, David Dubin. In first grade, David decided he wanted to be a teacher. He loved the idea of being in charge, he thinks. His first grade teacher cast him in the lead role in their Valentine's Day play. David: The Shower of Hearts. He played the King of Hearts, of course. His parents and grandparents came to the show convinced that he was destined for great things in the theater. Throughout junior and high school, he continued performing in plays such as Woody Allen's Don't Drink the Water, where he played the lead. Throughout his K through twelve years, he believed that being a teacher, specifically an English teacher, was his destiny, unaware of how much grading that would entail. His family continued their support for his theater endeavors. Darren Petronella: The Shower of Hearts. He played the King of Hearts, of course. His parents and grandparents came to the show convinced that he was destined for great things in the theater. Throughout junior and high school, he continued performing in plays such as Woody Allen's Don't Drink the Water, where he played the lead. Throughout his K through 12 years, he believed that being a teacher, specifically English teacher, was his destiny, unaware of how much grading that would entail. His family continued their support for his theater endeavors. David: David attended Colgate University in upstate Hamilton, New York, where he put it all together, majoring in English, earning his teaching certification, and directing several plays as an undergraduate, more than any other undergraduate, or so they told him. After Colgate, he earned his Master of Arts degree in English from NYU and his teaching certification from CW Post, now called Long Island University. As part of his academic and theater training, David Darren Petronella: David attended Colgate University in upstate Hamilton, New York, where he put it all together, majoring in English, earning his teaching certification, and directing several plays as an undergraduate, more than any other undergraduate, or so they told him. After Colgate, he earned his Master of Arts degree in English from NYU and his teaching certification from CW Post, now called Long Island University. As part of his academic and theater training, David David: studied directing in Darren Petronella: studied directing in David: London with Euan Smith, director with the Royal Shakespeare Company, script interpretation with Stella Adler at her conservatory in New York City, and method acting with Clienne Gabel, director with Equity Library Theater. After college, Wantagh High School in Long Island, New York, hired David to teach English and direct its drama program. For the next twenty three years, he directed seventy eight shows there. At night, David directed plays at local theaters, Darren Petronella: London with Ewan Smith, director with the Royal Shakespeare Company, script interpretation with Stella Adler at her conservatory in New York City, and Method Acting with Siplian Gabel, director with Equity Library Theater. After college, Wantagh High School in Long Island, New York, hired David to teach English and direct its drama program. For the next 23 years, he directed 78 shows there. At night, David directed plays at local theaters. David: For ten years he worked at Arena Players, owned by Frederick deFeis, his former English teacher, and then went on to direct hundreds of regional theater productions across New York State, including devising an all original play festival in Fire Island, New York in 2003. Toward the end of his teaching career, Studio Theater's then current owner, Bob O'Neill, said he was planning to close the theater, located in Lindenhurst, New York, and asked David if he was interested in taking it over. Darren Petronella: For 10 years he worked at Arena Players, owned by Frederick deFeis, his former English teacher, and then went on to direct hundreds of regional theater productions across New York State, including devising an all original play festival Fire Island, New York in 2003. Toward the end of his teaching career, Studio Theater's then current owner, Bob O'Neill, said he was planning to close the theater located in Lindenhurst, New York, and asked David if he was interested in taking it over. David: The curtain was about to rise for his second act. Today, David Dubin is the executive artistic director of Manes Studio Theater, a role he has played since 2014. Twelve years later, the theater is still open, and it seems to have been the right decision. David Dubin, thank you so much for being with us today. Keep going, I'm impressed with that story. Is we're gonna assume that it's all true. all right, so Darren Petronella: The curtain was about to rise for his second act. Today, David Dubin is the executive artistic director of Maine Studio Theater, a role he has played since 2014. Twelve years later, the theater is still open, and it seems to have been the right decision. David Dubin, thank you so much for being with us today. Keep going, I'm impressed with that story. Is we're gonna assume that it's all true. all right, so David: David, I wanna kinda take you back to that first grade when you decided to be a teacher. Do you remember the any sort of flash moment from that? Well, I don't remember a a moment, but when I I know that when I was in first grade I w I wanted to be a first grade teacher. In second grade I wanted to be a second grade teacher and I j just kept going 'til I was in high school and college and I bec I did become an English teacher. Right. Darren Petronella: David, I wanna kinda take you back to that first grade when you decided to be a teacher. Do you remember the any sort of flash moment from that? Well, I don't remember a a moment, but when I I know that when I was in first grade I w I wanted to be a first grade teacher. In second grade I wanted to be a second grade teacher and I j just kept going until I was in high school and college and I bec I did become an English teacher. Right. David: Can you recollect like well was it because you had a teacher and you said I want to be like that person? Well th there there were several. You know, I really think that when I was seven years old I was already a student teacher because I I would watch the teachers and and and pick things up from what they did. Right. And I know now even Darren Petronella: can you recollect well was it because you had a teacher and you said I want to be like that person? Well there there were several. You know, I really think that when I was seven years old, I was already a student teacher because I I would watch the teachers and and and pick things up from what they did. Right. And I know now even David: in my last few years of teaching, I I still do some of the things that that they did that maybe unconsciously that that I carried away with me. Can you give an example? I I think the way they interacted with kids and made them feel that their contributions were worthwhile. You know, I I whenever I would call on a kid when I was teaching high school Darren Petronella: In my last few years of teaching, I I still do some of the things that that they did that maybe unconsciously that that I carried away with me. Can you give an example? I I think the way they interacted with kids and made them feel that their contributions were worthwhile. You know, I I whenever I would call on a kid when I was teaching high school David: even if their answer was preposterous. I would try to say something kind to them right to to make them feel that their volunteering and putting themselves out there was was worthwhile, whether they were right or wrong. a number of years ago I was being observed by my assistant principal and I was teaching a tale of two cities and one kid, Robert, who was a basketball player Darren Petronella: even if their answer was preposterous. I would try to say something kind to them right to to make them feel that their volunteering and putting themselves out there was was worthwhile, whether they were right or wrong. a number of years ago I was being observed by my assistant principal and I was teaching a tale of two cities and one kid, Robert, who was a basketball player David: decidedly more interested in basketball than the Tale of Two Cities. But he was he was always quick to volunteer. And I asked a a trivia question about what was going on in Atlant in Tale Tale Two Cities, and his hand shot up, and I called on him, and he gave just a ridiculous answer. It had nothing to do with the book. And I couldn't I couldn't even fake it, even though I was being observed. And I said, Rob Darren Petronella: decidedly more interested in basketball than Tale Two Cities. But he was he was always quick to volunteer. And I asked a a trivia question about what was going on in at in Tale Tale Two Cities, and his hand shot up and I called on him and he gave just a ridiculous answer. It had nothing to do with the book. And I couldn't I couldn't even fake it, even though I was being observed. And I said, Rob David: That's not even in the book. Why did you say that? He said, Well the assistant principal said I wanted to help you out. I said that was no help whatsoever, but I appreciate it. That's so funny. That's great. That's great. By the way, you mentioned the name of the theater. It's A N E S, but it is pronounced Manis. Manus and Dr. Manis who gave us the money, I'm sure would appreciate it if we got the name right. Manus. Manus Studio Theater every day. I'm sorry for my Darren Petronella: That's not even in the book. Why did you say that? He said, Well, the assistant principal's here, I wanted to help you out. I said, That was no help whatsoever, but I appreciate it. That's so funny. That's great. That's great. By the way, you mentioned the name of the theater. It's M-A-N-E-S, but it is pronounced Manis. And Dr. Manis who gave us the money, I'm sure would appreciate it if we got the name right. Manus. Manus Studio Theater every year. I'm sorry for my my faux pas. David: So so and you remember this first grade play, Show the the Shower Parts. Well now, if you've time for a story. Yes, please. Okay. my first grade teacher was named Mrs. Volkman. And at the end of first grade she had a b a baby and didn't come back. And we yeah, we were yeah I heard you just sympathize. And you know, first graders are sad at things like that. But anyway, never to be heard of. Darren Petronella: So so and you remember this first grade play, Shower the The Shower of Hearts? Well now, if you have time for a story. Yes, please. Okay. my first grade teacher was named Mrs. Volkman. And at the end of first grade she had a b a baby and didn't come back. and we yeah, we were yeah, I heard you just sympathize. And you know, first graders are sad at things like that. But anyway, never to be heard of. David: Or heard from again. And fifty years later, five years later, they were closing the school. It was the Seaford Avenue School. And they invited everyone who had ever attended the school to come back for an open house. And so I went with a few friends of mine. And I thought, I wonder if Mrs. Volkman would be here. But yeah, why would she be? It's fifty years later. We never saw her again. And they had this big sign-in sheet. Darren Petronella: Or heard from again. And fifty years later, five years later, they were closing the school. It was the Seaford Avenue School. And they invited everyone who had ever attended the school to come back for an open house. And so I went with a few friends of mine. And I thought, I wonder if Mrs. Volkman would be here. But you why would she be? It's 50 years later. We never saw her again. And they had this big sign-in sheet. David: In the main lobby, y you'd sign your name and say something about your reminiscences of the school. And I someone had written I taught in the school fifty years ago, fond memories, Geraldyn Volkman. And I thought, my God, sh she was here today or she is here right now or I said, But how would I even know who she was fifty fifty years later? And I thought she could have come this morning and she's gone. And with that a woman walked forward. Darren Petronella: In the main lobby, you you'd sign your name and say something about your reminiscences of the school. And I someone had written, I taught in the school fifty years ago, fond memories, Geraldine Bopman. And I said, my God, sh she was here today or she is here right now. Or I said, But how would I even know who she was fifty fifty years later? And I thought she could have come this morning and she's gone. And with that a woman walked forward. David: I and I got a flash. I said, That's her. my gosh. Fifty years later, I know that's her. my gosh. And she but you know, she kept walking and so I w I walked after her and I said, I'm sorry, but did you ever teach here? She said, well a very, very long time ago. I said she said, you know, wouldn't you wouldn't have known me. I said, Are you Mrs. Volkman? And you know, she her mouth drops. Yes. Darren Petronella: I and I got a flash. I said, That's her. my fifty years later, I know that's her. my gosh. And she but she kept walking. And so I w I walked after her and I said, I'm sorry, but did you ever teach here? She said, well a very, very long time ago I said she said, you know, you wouldn't you wouldn't have known me. I said, Are you Mrs. Volkman? And you know, she her mouth drops. Yes. David: I said, Well, I I had you in nineteen sixty six and and I told her my name and she said she remembered me and that I was the king king of hearts and in that show. And she said to me, Did you ever do any more theater since then? I said, actually I own a theater right now and she got so emotional. Anyway, I invited her and her husband to studio theater and they came. that's amazing. Yeah. So and now I we exchange Christmas cards every year. Darren Petronella: I said, Well, I I had you in nineteen sixty six and and I told her my name and she said she remembered me and that I was the king king of hearts and in that show. And she said to me, Did you ever do any more theater since then? I said, actually I own a theater right now and she got so emotional. Anyway, I invited her and her husband to studio theater and they came. that's amazing. Yeah. So and now I we exchange Christmas cards every year. David: And after all those years we're Wow United That's really amazing. Yeah. it's really a testament to you never know what's gonna happen or who you're gonna come bump into in life. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Wow. So I'm gonna bring in your parents and grandparents to this 'cause you had mentioned Are they here? They're are they here? We'll find out. so your parents up until this this first great Valentine's Day play Darren Petronella: And after all those years we're Wow United That's really amazing. Yeah. it's it's really a testament to like you never know what's gonna happen or who you're gonna come bump into in life. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Wow. So I'm gonna bring in your parents and grandparents to this 'cause you had mentioned Are they here? They're not are they here? We'll find out. so your parents up until this this first great Valentine's Day play They had never seen you on stage or or had you done anything. There are not a lot of opportunities for people who are five years old six years old, right? Yeah, that was my debut. So y so you so they came to the show as I as I said as part of our your intro that they were they were convinced that this was now your future. Well that's what they said, but who knows? I was seven years old, but but no, they they didn't make a big thing of the fact that I had the lead. David: They had never seen you on stage or or had you done anything there are not a lot of opportunities for people who are five years old. Six years old, right? Yeah, that was my debut. So y so you so they came to the show as I as I said as part of our your intro that they were they were convinced that this was now your future. Well that's what they said, but who knows? It was seven years old. But but no, they they did make a big thing of the fact that I had to leave the lead Right, right. Okay. And I did, I did I did as a little kid. I I I did think that meant something. Yeah. I look back now and I'm not so sure, but at the time it did seem like I was destined for greatness. Well obviously it's it's stuck because you 'cause the you had theater at every in every chapter of your career, which we're not talking about. So so so like and like like we said earlier, you know Darren Petronella: Right, right. Okay. And I did, I did I did as a little kid. I I I did think that meant something. Yeah. I look back now and I'm not so sure, but at the time it did seem like I was destined for greatness. Well obviously it's it's stuck because you because the you had theater in every in every chapter of your career, which we're not talking about. So so so like and like we said earlier, you know David: In junior high and high school you continue performing in plays like Woody Allen's Don't Drink the Water. You played the lead. Tell me about that. Was that your first lead role? You mean other than the King of Hearts? Other than the King of Hearts, yes. well, sixth grade I was also given a big part. But but yeah, I I would say so. Yeah. That was it. And of course I was cast as a middle aged man from New Jersey when I was in eighth grade. I didn't see it as an insult. Once again, my parents told me, you know, it meant I Darren Petronella: in junior high and high school you continued performing in plays like Woody Allen's Don't Drink the Water. You played the lead. Tell me about that. Was that your first lead role? You mean other than the King of Hearts? Other than the King of Hearts, yes. well, sixth grade I was also given a big part. But all right but yeah, I I would say so. Yeah. That was it. And of course I was cast as a middle aged man from New Jersey when I was in eighth grade. I didn't see it as an insult. Once again my parents told me, you know, it meant I was David: destined for the Great White Way. Wow. That's great. So they so at any at any point did your parents or anybody in your family ever discourage you from the theater? No. That's amazing. That's amaz 'cause that's kinda rare as you might imagine. Well, you know, I did n several plays in college and my parents drove up three hundred and ten miles every time. Wow. So everything I Darren Petronella: destined for the Great White Way. Wow. That's great. That's great. So they so at any at any point did your parents or anybody in your family ever discourage you from the theater? No. That's amazing. That's amaz 'cause that's kind of rare, as you might imagine. Well, you know, I did n several plays in college and my parents drove up three hundred and ten miles every time. Wow. So everything I David: I didn't Darren Petronella: I didn't count. That's amazing. Yeah. That that's dedication and that's yeah, that's their version of love, right? I'm I am sorry that that you know, my father didn't live long enough to see that I now own a theater. because really that's what he wanted me to do, I think, going to business. Going to the business. And and I did but you know, it's too late. Yeah. Okay. David: That's amazing. Yeah. That that's dedication and that's yeah that's their version of love, right? I'm I am sorry that that my father didn't live long enough to see that I now own a theater because r really that's what he wanted me to do, I think, going to business. Go into the business. And and I did, but you know, it's too late. Yeah. Okay, okay. So let's go back to the teaching idea. So you knew, like you said, first grade and Darren Petronella: So let's go back to the teaching idea. So you knew, like you said, first grade and then David: through all through school, K through twelve that you kind of built this up. I'm gonna be this this kind of teacher. By the time you were in twelfth grade, were you gonna be a h you thought you were gonna be a high school teacher? Yes. Eng high school English. So kinda changing as you got older. Yeah, well w once I was in junior high. Yeah. I knew I wanted to be an English teacher. and so w when I went to college I did get my Darren Petronella: through all through school, K through twelve that you kind of built this up. I'm gonna be this this kind of teacher. By the time you were in twelfth grade, were you gonna be a h you thought you were gonna be a high school teacher? Yes. Engl high school English. So kinda changing as you got older. Yeah, well w once I was in junior high. Yeah, I knew I wanted to be an English teacher. and so when I went to college I did get my David: teaching certification and and also my degree in English and and Darren Petronella: Teaching certification and and also a degree in English and and did a lot of drama. David: Did a lot of drama. was there anything about w what was it that drew you to English specifically to to teach English? I had an eleventh grade English teacher at Seaford High School, Rita Hines, who may be listening right now. I hope so. Darren Petronella: was there anything about w what was it that drew you to English specifically to to teach English? I had an eleventh grade English teacher at Seaford High School, Rita Hines, who may be listening right now. I hope so. David: And the way that she could connect and relate to the literature, I saw that when she was going over a Hawthorne story, the Scarletter. or even the short story The Minister's Black Veil. I could see that she saw things in it that I wasn't seeing, but but I wanted to, you know, and I could see that more than that, it moved her. And Darren Petronella: And the way that she could connect and relate to the literature, I saw that when she was going over a Hawthorne story, the Scarlet Letter. or even the short story The Minister's Black Veil, I could see that she saw things in it that I wasn't seeing, but but I wanted to, you know, and I could see that more than that, it moved her. And David: I I wanted to be able to find a way to unlock that you know the the way the way she did. The way she did. And do it for students, you know, so that they would feel the same thing. Right. Okay. That's great. You know, that's amazing. so so your family was supporting you all the way through through college and even when you got your degrees and all that good stuff, right? Darren Petronella: I I wanted to be able to find a way to unlock that in the the way the way she did. The way she did. And do it for students, you know, so that they would feel the same thing. Right. Okay. That's great. Yeah. That's amazing. so so your family was supporting you all the way through through college and even when you got your degrees and all that good stuff, right? any any memories that you have from any of that training, whether it was undergrad or grad in terms of like your David: Are any any memories that you have from any of that training, whether it was undergrad or grad in terms of your whether it's the the classes or student teaching experiences, anything that kinda stands out to you as formidable? formative formative. I'm an English teacher. Formative. It was formidable also. Yeah, and you're you are formable. Anything that stood out in t in a positive way or even a scary way that said, gosh, am I doing this? No, I mean nothing nothing was Darren Petronella: whether it's the the classes or student teaching experiences, anything that stands out to you as formidable? formative formative. I'm an English teacher. Formative. It was formidable also. Yeah, and you're you are formidable. Anything that stood out in t in a positive way or even a scary way. They said, gosh, am I doing this? No, I mean nothing w nothing was David: ever scary. But you know, I d I did Darren Petronella: ever scary, but you know, I I did David: wonder if I could find in the literature what my professors found and I didn't I did not pursue working on a college level for that reason. I knew that that I could make it come alive for high school kids. Okay. and then I wasn't a scholar. So I didn't think that pushing myself to get a a doctorate Darren Petronella: wonder if I could find in the literature what my professors found and I didn't I did not pursue working on a college level for that reason. I knew that that I could make it come alive for high school kids. Okay. and then I wasn't a scholar. So I didn't think that pushing myself to get a a doctorate or or to teach on college level was the right fit for me. David: or to teach on college level was the right fit for me. Hm. It's interesting because I as everybody out out there will will learn now, you and I met because of theater. I mean I y the first show I did with you was a musical call applause. That was in nineteen ninety eight. And the first time we wait we met. I remember auditioning for you and we've done we did other shows after that. But I always thought of you as more of a college university type Darren Petronella: It's interesting because I as everybody out out there will will learn now, you and I met because of theater. I the first show I did with you was a musical called Applause. That was in nineteen ninety eight. And the first time we w we met. I remember auditioning for you and we've done we did other shows after that. But I always thought of you as more of a college university type speaker and professor and or you know, I I carry myself that way. David: speaker and professor and orator. I I carry myself that way. It's all a facade. So so you never really thought about teaching anything higher than or anything different than high school? no, no. I I knew I didn't have the dedication that I would need to pour over these volumes. You know? Darren Petronella: It's all of a side. So so you never really thought about teaching anything higher than or anything different than high school? no, no. I I knew I didn't have the dedication that I would need to pour over these volumes. Right, you know. David: And and that wasn't that wasn't necessarily Darren Petronella: And and that wasn't that wasn't necessarily David: fun for me. It was it was making kids connect w with the literature. Darren Petronella: fun for me. It was it was making kids connect with with the literature. David: I think on a high school level you teach kids the literature. Right. I think on a college maybe this is a generalization, but I think there you teach literature to kids. Right. You know. Okay. Fair enough. Okay. so how how is I mean, so you you went to Colgate for for that English degree with the the and you you you majored in English, right. so Darren Petronella: I think on a high school level you teach kids the literature. Right. I think on a college maybe this is a generalization, but I think there you teach literature to kids. Right. You know. Okay. Fair enough. Okay. so how how how is I mean, so you you went to Colgate for for that English degree with the the and you you you majored in English, right. so David: And that and that never wavered during your four or so years? you know, it's funny, I rec I kept all I don't know why I did, but I kept all of my college notebooks. Uh-huh. And in it I saw I had an article from this the college newspaper, my senior year, which they did a senior profile on me. And so I I read it to see what it was I was hoping to do with my life. Darren Petronella: And that and that never wavered during your four or so years? you know, it's funny, I rec I kept all I don't know why I did, but I kept all of my college notebooks. Uh-huh. And in it I saw I had an article from this the college newspaper, my senior year, which they did a senior profile on me. And so I I read it to see what it was I was hoping to do with my life. David: And in it I said that I was getting my certification to be a teacher, but that I was hoping one day I would own a theatre. my gosh. Yeah. I I th and and it took me thirty five years. Right. But it did it did happen. Wow. And yeah. That's unbelievable that you actually kind of somehow put that into the universe and then you then you walk through that that threshold. Yeah, yeah. And I and I did add but I did say, you I hope it's somewhere like Boston. I don't know why I never never been to Boston. but Darren Petronella: And in it I said that I was getting my certification to be a teacher, but that I was hoping one day I would own a theatre. my gosh. Yeah. I I th and and it took me thirty five years. Right. But it did it did happen. Wow. And yeah. That's unbelievable that you actually kind of somehow put that into the universe and then you then you walk through that that threshold. Yeah, yeah. And I and I did add but I did say, you hopefully somewhere like Boston. I don't know why I know never been to Boston. but David: So you weren't gonna necessarily do it in I didn't care where. No, no, I didn't care. Yeah. Okay. All right. My sister went to Colgate, so I remember that campus. yeah, she did. She she she made it she was gonna do pre med and then she changed biology and and now she's a physician assistant and she's in a healthcare administrator. So so as soon as I read that I'm like, What Colgate, of course. Yeah. so so you finished at Colgate. By the way, other than do I'm assuming you did shows along the way or Darren Petronella: So you weren't gonna necessarily do it in the I didn't care where no, no, I didn't care. You didn't care where too. Yeah. Okay. All right. My sister went to Colgate, so I remember that campus. Yeah, she did. She she she made it. She was gonna do pre med and then she changed biology and and now she's a physician assistant and she's in a healthcare administrator. So so as soon as I read that I'm like, What Colgate, of course. Yeah. so so you finished at Colgate. By the way, other than doing I'm assuming you did shows along the way or David: Yes. You did? Yeah. Any highlights there? All right. Yes. Go for it. It's actually a low light. Okay. Low light. My first year there, my freshman year, I auditioned for T. S. Elliott's The Cocktail Party. Darren Petronella: Yes. You did? Yeah. Any highlights there? All right. Yes. Go for it. It's actually a low light. Okay. Low light. My first year there, my freshman year, I auditioned for T. S. Elliott's The Cocktail Party. David: And it's writ the whole thing is written poetry. I'm I'm pretty sh sure that T. S. Elliott never expected that anyone would produce it. I think he wrote it as a piece of literature, but anyway, someone got the broad idea to direct the cocktail party. So I auditioned for it and I got the lead. I I was cast as Sir Henry Harcourt Riley, psychiatrist, British psychiatrist. Okay. And I didn't understand a word of this play. Darren Petronella: And it's writ the whole thing is written poetry. I'm I'm pretty sh sure that T. S. Eliot never expected that anyone would produce it. I think he wrote it as a piece of literature, but anyway, someone got the bright idea to direct the cocktail party. Mm-hmm. So I auditioned for it and I got the lead. I I was cast as Sir Henry Harcourt Riley, psychiatrist, British psychiatrist. Okay. And I didn't understand a word of this play. David: No, I was a freshman and memorized speeches that went on for pages. my gosh. Without knowing at all what I was saying. Right. and opening night my parents drove three hundred ten miles to see it. And it was in this drama lab. It was like an amphitheater. Okay. Indoor amphitheater. And I was playing this marriage counselor and Darren Petronella: No, I was a freshman and memorized speeches that went on for pages. my gosh. Without knowing at all what I was saying. Right. and opening night my parents drove three hundred ten miles to see it. And it was in this drama lab. It was like an amphitheater. Okay. Indoor amphitheater. And I was playing this marriage counselor and David: I had Mr and Mrs. Chamberlain in my office. And I said, And now Mr. Chamberlain, we turn to your side Darren Petronella: I had Mr. and Mrs. Chamberlain in my office. And I said, And now Mr. Chamberlain, we turn to your side David: I had no idea what the problem was. I had no idea what the play was. Nothing. And I'm looking out front I see my parents in the audience. And I'm thinking, you know, if I don't say anything, nobody can leave this auditorium today. And then I I swear to God, that's what was going through my head. And then I said to myself, Stop thinking about that and try to come up with a line. Right. So the actor playing Mr. Chamberlain, his name was Christopher Hedges, said to me Darren Petronella: I had no idea what the problem was. I had no idea what the play was. Nothing. And I'm looking out for I see my parents in the audience. And I'm thinking, you know, if I don't say anything, nobody can leave this auditorium today. And then I I swear to God, that's what was going through my head. And then I said to myself, Stop thinking about that and try to come up with a line. Right. So the actor playing Mr. Chamberlain, his name was Christopher Hedges, said to me David: What were you saying? That that was not a good ad lib. That did not help me. Right. Didn't didn't that didn't help me. Nothing flashed in your head. Eventually I thought of a line that was several pages ahead. Right. But but then the audience didn't care. They just want to get out of there. So I skipped to that. And we got through the scene. Right. But never again have I ever auditioned for a part that big. Now, the actor Christopher Hedges, who Darren Petronella: What were you saying? That that was not a good ad lib. That did not help me. Right. It didn't didn't that nothing flashed in your head. Eventually I thought of a line that was several pages ahead. Right. But but then the audience didn't care. They just want to get out of there. So I skipped to that. And we got through the scene. Right. But never again have I ever auditioned for a part that big. Now, the actor Christopher Hedges, who David: played Mr. Chamberlain, who was not a great ad libert, ended up graduating from Colgate. He became a reporter for the New York Times and he did a lot of work correspondent work. And as a matter of fact, he was I I read his reports in his articles in from Bosnia. And at one point he was thrown, I believe he was thrown into a dungeon by Saddam Hussein. Darren Petronella: played Mr. Chamberlain, who was not a great ad libert, ended up graduating from Colgate. He became a reporter for the New York Times and he did a lot of work correspondent work. And as a matter of fact, he was I I read his reports in his articles in from Bosnia. And at one point he was thrown, I believe he was thrown into a dungeon by Saddam Hussein. David: I guarantee that was preferable to being on stage with me. Because of that s that pinter pause sli silence. At least was down saying you knew it would end sometime. But on stage with me it could have gone on forever. Two hours of silence. Yeah. I I bet he would say that experience with me was the worst of his life. Darren Petronella: I guarantee that was preferable to being on stage with me. Because of that s that pinter pause sli silence. At least was done saying you knew it would end sometime. But on stage with me it could have gone on forever. Two hours of silence. Yeah, I I bet he would say that experience with me was the worst of his life. David: And that's what j that's what pulled you away from lead roles after that, huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Traumatizing. And up until that point you struck gold every time. Every time you read this, you were getting a lead role. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah, yeah. But I I did not opt for that ever again. You scared yourself out of it. Wow. Well, we all remember those kinds of moments when we go up on lines. There's no question about that. So and I'm sure you've you know, used that at some point in your career talking to students. Yeah. Darren Petronella: And that's what that's what pulled you away from lead roles after that, huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Traumatizing. And up until that point, you struck gold every time. Every time you were dish, you were getting a lead role. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah, yeah. But I I did not opt for that ever again. You scared yourself out of it. Wow. Well, we all remember those kinds of moments when we go up online. There's no question about that. So and I'm sure you've you know, used that at some point in your career talking to students. Yeah. David: And how you're human. Darren Petronella: And how you're human. David: You know. Even though you have this mythic you know, mythical kind of presence about you. you know, it's funny, years later, you know, I I taught for a number of years and when I retired I was hired by a couple of other high schools to do leave replacement jobs. This is during the COVID time right before right after it. And I was in Manhasset teaching an A P class and I one of the assignments Darren Petronella: You know. Even though you have this mythic you know, mythical kind of presence about you. you know, it's funny, years later, you know, I I taught for a number of years and when I retired I was hired by a couple other high schools to do leave replacement jobs. This is during the COVID time right before right after it. And I was in Manhasset teaching an A P class and I one of the assignments David: was an article written by Christopher Hedges. Darren Petronella: was an article written by Christopher Hedges. that I had to go over with with the kids. And so I did tell them that story. I said I said, this author hates me, by the way. They were very impressed that, you know, I knew I knew him, even though he hated me. But actually I don't haven't heard from him since which is I'm sure that's his wish. That's amazing. So he was kind of haunting you a little bit. Yeah. Through the years. Through the years. Okay. So so you finished up at Colgate David: That I had to go over with with the kids. And so I did tell them that story. I said I said, This author hates me, by the way. They were very impressed that, you know, I knew I knew him, even though he hated me. But actually I don't haven't heard from him since, which is I'm sure that's his wish. That's amazing. So he was kinda haunting you a little bit. Yeah. Through the years. Through the years. Okay. So so you finished up at Colgate. And then you no, as part of undergrad grad, and this is what I was gleaning from what you had shared with me, that you you did some study abroad types of stuff. You went you went to London and you you studied directing with Ewan Smith as as as as we saw as we talked about. Tell us about that experience with the Royal Shakespeare Company. Well, he came to us. you know, yeah. And it it was like a Darren Petronella: And then you now as part of like undergrad grad, and this is what I was gleaning from what you had shared with me, that you you did some like study abroad types of stuff. You went you went to London and you you studied directly with Ewan Smith as as as as we saw as we talked about. Tell us about that experience with the Royal Shakespeare Company. Well, he came to us. you know, yeah. And it it was like a David: tutorial with a director from the Darren Petronella: tutorial. Yeah. David: And he directed us in scenes from Gammer Gurten's Needle, which I think was written in the fifteen hundreds or something. Never heard of it. no one's doing that on Broadway these days. But it was it was I mean he had a great sense of humor and he was had a a lovely way about him and and obviously very knowledgeable. Right. Darren Petronella: And he directed us in scenes from Gamergurten's Needle, which I think was written in the fifteen hundreds or something. Never heard of it. no one's doing that on Broadway these days. But it was it was I mean he had a great sense of humor and he was had a a a lovely way about him and and obviously very knowledgeable. Right. David: but that was a long time ago. Darren Petronella: But that was a long time ago. Yeah. Okay. D is there anything that you learned from that tutorial that you brought into your own directing? I'm sure there is, but not but nothing specific that that that stands out. That stands out. Yeah. I mean and and then I I studied with Stella Adler script interpretation in in her conservatory in New York in nineteen eighty three, I think it was. but it was a big class, it was le it was a lecture class. Right. And experience like well she was the grand dam. David: Yeah. Okay. D is there anything that you learned from that tutorial that you brought into your own directing? I'm sure there is, but not but nothing specific that that that stands out. That stands out. Yeah. I mean and and then I I studied with Stella Adler script interpretation in in her conservatory in New York in nineteen eighty three, I think it was. but it was a big class. It was le it was a lecture class. Right. And was that experience left? Well mm she was the grand damn of Darren Petronella: of of acting teachers. Yes. She would dress in in jewels heavily made up, her hair perfect and long gowns to teach a class. And she would have an assistant hold her chair for her, which actually was a throne from a from a production that she used as a chair for her class. Of course. and the assistant would open her notebook for her. David: of acting teachers. Yes. She would dress in in jewels heavily made up, her hair perfect and long gowns to teach a class. And she would have an assistant hold her chair for her, which actually was a throne from a from a production that she used as a chair for her class. Of course and the assistant would open her notebook for her Darren Petronella: Wow. and she would she would carry on and and and she w she would talk about method acting and she would say, there's a great controversy with Lee Strasberg about method acting. I know method acting, I know what Stanislavsky wanted. I slept with the man. She said that? Yep. Well that got it. David: and she would she would carry on and and and she would she would talk about method acting and she would say, you know, there's a great controversy with Lee Strasberg about method acting. I know method acting, I know what Stanislavski wanted. I slept with the man. She said that? Yep. Well that got it. quite the response. That was the most memorable thing from the class for me. Wow. Yeah. That's that's that's amazing. That's amazing. I could only imagine just being in that environment. You know, it was very intimidating. I could imagine. I can imagine. Did you perform for her? Did you did you do any sort of lecture. It was all it was all lecture. On on interpreting playwrights. okay. All right. Interesting. And Darren Petronella: Quite the response. That was the most memorable thing from the class for me. Wow. Yeah. That's that's that's amazing. That's amazing. I couldn't only imagine just being in that environment, you know. it was very intimidating. I could imagine. I can imagine. Did you perform for her? Did you did you go and do any sort of reading? lecture. It was all lecture. On on interpreting playwrights. okay. All right. Interesting. And David: And you also did some method acting with i did I pronounce her name right? No you no you screwed that up. Really? her name was Cyprien Gable. You know, it's funny because I was looking at this I I looked it up, I said maybe it's French, so I'm gonna go Cyprien. No, so it's Cyprien. Cyprien Gable. Okay. Yeah. Strike two for D Pink. She directed the Equity Library Theater in New York and Darren Petronella: And you also did some method acting with i did I pronounce the name right? No you screw no you screwed that up. Really? her name was Cyprien Gable. You know, it's funny because I was looking at this up I I looked it up, I said maybe it's French, so I'm gonna go Cyprien. No, so it's Cyprien. Cyprien Gable. Okay. Yeah. Strike two for D Ping. She directed at the Equity Library Theater in New York. And I I really found the study of method acting fascinating. David: I really found the study of method acting fascinating, not necessarily because I wanted to immerse myself in it, but and certainly the actors who who formed the group theater in the nineteen twenties, many of them believed in it, although they they split in half with those who followed Stella Adler and those that followed Lee Strasberg. Darren Petronella: Not necessarily because I wanted to immerse myself in it, but and certainly the actors who who formed the group theater in the nineteen twenties, many of them believed in it, although they they split in half with those who followed Stella Adler and those that followed Lee Strasberg. David: Some will claim that the that's the only way you Darren Petronella: some will claim that you know that's the only way you can David: you can act and make it realistic. Others will say it's just a neurotic kind of acting that destroys psychologically destroys the actor. I know enough about it to to to to talk about it but but I wouldn't try to teach it myself. Seems like it's very it's it's a very like high stakes kind of thing where it it can be no s not only exhausting but emotionally damaging. Yes, yes. Darren Petronella: you can act and make it realistic. Others will say it's just a neurotic kind of acting that destroys psychologically destroys the actor. I know enough about it to to to to talk about it but but I wouldn't try to teach it myself. Yeah. Seems like it's very it's it's a very like high stakes kind of thing where it it can be no s not only exhausting but emotionally damaging. Exhausting Yes. Yes. David: Well that's what Stella Adler claimed about Lee Strasberg that he was making damaged actors. Right. I don't think anybody goes well, I shouldn't say it, but but I don't I don't think anyone goes as in depth as he did at that time. Okay. Okay. So at any point during this time, whether it was and and and then I w I did not to skip over it, but you did get your master's degree shortly after the undergrad? Darren Petronella: Well that's what Stella Adler claimed about Lee Strasberg that he was making damaged actors. Right. I don't think anybody goes well, I shouldn't say it, but but I don't I don't think anyone goes as in depth as he did at that time. Okay. Okay. So at any point during this time, whether it was and and and then I didn't not to skip over it, but you did get your master's degree shortly after the undergrad? David: Is that straight after or was it there some more? Well, I was already teaching, so I would I would take one course at a time at night at NYU. That's right. That's right. I w yeah, I wasn't clear about okay. So and how was your masters program? because I was doing one course at a time while I was busy working and directing. Yeah. I just got through it. Right. Right. That makes sense. That makes sense. Did you direct as part of your masters program? No, it was a master's in English, not not Darren Petronella: Is that straight after or was it there from the Well, I was already teaching, so I was I would take one course at a time at night at NYU. That's right. That's right. I w yeah, I wasn't clear about Okay. So and how is your master's program? because I was doing one course at a time while I was busy working and directing. Yeah. I just got through it. Right. Right. That makes sense. That makes sense. Did you direct as part of your masters program? No, it was a master's in English, not right not David: yeah. I was just curious if you had gotten involved in any 'cause they have student groups and stuff like that. I did not get involved in the the life of the school either. Right, 'cause you were doing one like you said, teaching and upgrading and all that kind of stuff. So at any point during this time, so the whether it's under well again, K through twelve, undergrad, grad school, and all these like other i lectures and and and script interpretation and all this kind of stuff that you did. Darren Petronella: Okay. Yeah. I was just curious if you had gotten involved in it, because they have student groups and stuff like that. It was extra. I did not get involved in the the life of the school. Right, because you were doing one like you said, teaching and grading and all that kind of stuff. So at any point during this time, so the whether it's under well, again, K through twelve, undergrad, grad school, and all these like other lectures and and and script interpretation and all this kind of stuff that you did. David: Nothing you never kinda wavered from that from that choice to say I'm gonna be a teacher. This is what I wanna do. No. Really? No. Really. I did take a number of French classes in high school and college. Darren Petronella: Nothing you never wavered from that from that choice to say I'm gonna be a teacher. This is what I wanna do. No. Really? No. Really. I did take a number of French classes in high school and college. so really the only thing I can say is my uncle's green pencil case is in the pool. So in case that happens I can tell people. That's about it. And I do regret that I really didn't follow through on that because by now I'd be able to David: Really the only thing I can say is my uncle's green pencil case is in the pool. So in case that happens I can tell people but that's about it. And I do regret that I really didn't follow through on that because by now I'd be able to speak the language, but I I didn't. Hm. Okay. It's very rare and and this is what I I've learned about you I mean I from years ago and we knew when I when we did work together and and it's been a gap since then, obviously 'cause Darren Petronella: speak the language, but I I didn't. Hm. Okay. It's very rare and and this what I I've learned about you I mean, I from years ago when we knew when I when we did work together and and it's been a gap since then, obviously 'cause we did different things, but I didn't realize that you this was your path and that this was like the the path. Like this was it was never anything else really I mean other than this. Right. Yeah, I mean I was I was amused when you asked if I had any hobbies. David: did different things, but I didn't realize that you this was your path and that this was like the the path. Like this was it was never anything else really. I mean other than this. Right? Yeah, I mean I was I was amused when you asked if I had any hobbies. Hobbies. I mean I Darren Petronella: Happy. I mean I no, I'm I'm not gardening and just I this is enough to keep me sure keep me busy. Because with when when you're teaching English or when you're directing plays, you have never read enough. That's true. Right? All of your waking hours my god, I never read that play or I never read that. Right. so that that that's what I it keeps you engaged just from that. Just that that kind of material. Or you go to a play. Or you play. David: no, I mean I'm not gardening. I'm just you know, I this is enough to keep me sure. Keep me busy. Because with when when you're teaching English or when you're directing plays, you have never read enough. That's true. Right? All of your waking hours my god, I never read that play, or I never read that. so th that that's what I it keeps you engaged just from that. Just that that kind of material. Or you go to a play. Or you like Exactly. or you read the New York Times Sunday Book Review or you but it's o it's always immersing myself in these this field. Right. Right. And I never feel like and now even you know, teaching is pretty much over but I still sub but I I feel like I'm still not Darren Petronella: Exactly. or you read the New York Times Sunday Book Review or you but it's o it's always immersing myself in these this field. Right. Right. And I never feel like and now even, you know, teaching is pretty much over but I still sub but I I feel like I'm still not David: equipped to be an English teacher and I've already finished it. So Darren Petronella: equipped to be an English teacher and I already finished it. David: So did you I mean that's called imposter syndrome in psychology. Did you did you have that? Did you feel that during your career that you every day. Really? Mhm. So there was something insecure or something going on. There was, but because I could act act as if Yeah, I mean you said before that th that you thought there was something professorial about me. But it's just the way I you know, the stuffy sweater or the way I carry myself. Darren Petronella: So did you I mean that's called imposter syndrome in psychology. Did you did you have that? Did you feel that during your career that you every day. Really? Mm-hmm. So there was something insecure or something going on. There was, but because I could act but you could act as if Yeah, I mean you said before that th that you thought there was something professorial about it. But it's just the way I you know the stuffy sweater or the way I carry myself. David: Right. but I don't feel it inside and I'm always Darren Petronella: Right. but I don't feel it inside. And I'm always and I do hear that a lot. and I'm pleased that I can carry it off, but I feel like I'm an imposter. Is let me ask you qu this is a question that's completely off script, but is this is the person that that I knew from t almost thirty years ago and now 'cause you're basically the same person from what I remember, do you do you find that you David: And I do hear that a lot. Mm-hmm. and I'm pleased that I can carry it off, but I feel like I'm an imposter. Is let me ask you qu this is a question that's completely off script, but is this is the person that that I knew from t almost thirty years ago and now, because you're basically the same person from what I remember, do you do you find that you are the same person that you were when you started your career? I'm the same person that I was in high school. Darren Petronella: are the same person that you were when you started your career? I'm the same person that I was in high school. if someone someone said to me recently, how old do you feel? And you know, if I didn't know, if there was no mirror right and I didn't know how old I was, I had some kind of amnesia that made me forget my age and I wasn't I I would think I was fifteen. That's how I feel inside. No? That's a good thing. Well I mean I just d I just never f I have never felt like I'm an adult. David: if someone someone said to me recently, How old do you feel? And you know, if I didn't know if there was no mirror and I didn't know how old I was, I had some kind of amnesia that made me forget my age and I wasn't I I would think I was fifteen. That's how I feel inside. No. That's a good thing that you well, I mean I just d I just never f I have never felt like I'm an adult. So you never grew up in your mind. No. Right. And and sometimes w when I was teaching Darren Petronella: So you never grew up in your mind. No. Right. And and sometimes when I was teaching, I would think, I can't believe they allow me to be in charge of these kids. I'm one of them. And I did it for thirty five years full time. Now they're still let me in the door. You and you know, I felt my second day of teaching, a student came up in a second day of teaching and she said and she's like with lips quivering. David: Can't believe they allow me to be in charge of these kids. I'm one of them. And I did it for thirty five years full time. Now they still let me in the door. And you know, I felt my second day of teaching, a student came up in a second day teaching and she said and she's like with lips quivering. I wasn't able to cover my textbook last night because we we had the family emergency and but I'll do it tonight. And I thought, I'm supposed to care about this. All right, all right, I have to give an appropriate response. She's very upset 'cause she didn't cover her textbook last night. All right, I gotta pretend that this is important. Right. You know, and I said, All right, but I'll let it go this time, but you know, I I figured out what to say. And that's how I felt every day I had to Darren Petronella: I wasn't able to cover my textbook last night because we we have the family emergency and yeah, but I'll do it tonight is and I thought I'm supposed to care about this. All right, all right, I have to give an appropriate response. She's very upset because she didn't cover her textbook last night. All right, I gotta pretend that this is important. Right. You know, and I said, All right, but I'll let it go this time, but you know, all right, I figured out what to say. And that's how I felt every day. I had to David: figure out what the right response was you had to act as the teacher. So you acted as the teacher. And God help you if you get it wrong. If you say the wrong thing to a kid. sure. I know. I've been there. Yeah. Absolutely. I teach college and university stuff. I I taught on the high school level. My wife's a teacher, Kate she's a high school teacher. but yeah, I mean, like you said, you can if at any point you kind of drop that you'll never live it down because that person will remember it. Darren Petronella: figure out what the right response was. You had to act as the teacher. So you acted as the teacher. And God help you if you get it wrong. If you say the wrong thing to a kid sure. I know. I've been there. Yeah. Absolutely. I teach college and university stuff. I I taught on the high school level. My wife's a teacher, Kate she's a high school teacher. but yeah, I mean, like you said, you can if at any point you kinda drop that you'll never live it down because that person will remember it. David: did you ever think, okay, I want to teach something else other than English or dramatic literature? Well, you know, I I didn't feel equipped to teach what I was teaching. So I certainly wasn't gonna teach French. Right. But did ever wanna teach anything else? Darren Petronella: did you ever think, okay, I want to teach something else other than English or dramatic literature? Well, you know, I I didn't feel equipped to teach what I was teaching. So I certainly wasn't gonna teach French. Right. But did you ever want to teach anything else? David: Y yes. I I would be interested to to if I was doing it all over again, teach American political science. I was gonna say American history of political science. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean the history of this country is one of the most dramatic things that's ever happened in the history of the world. Right. So there's a lot of drama there. Yeah, no, and I was here for most of it. Well, you don't look it. so other than your parents Darren Petronella: Y yes. I I would be interested to to if I was doing it all over again, teach American political science. I was gonna say American history of political science. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Well, the history of this country is one of the most dramatic things that's ever happened in the history of the world, right? So there's a lot of drama there. Yeah, no, and I was here for most of it. Well, you don't look it. so other than your parents David: and grandparents, the very supportive family. a lot of people say to their parents, Hey, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be a a teacher, I'm gonna be an actor, I'm gonna do the theater, I'm gonna do the you know, a lot of people might get pushback from that. Like, Are you sure you wanna do that? But it the teaching is a solid career. So that could see Actually it was it was the reverse. when I was in college my parents Darren Petronella: and grandparents, the very supportive family. a lot of people say to their parents, Hey, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be a a teacher, I'm gonna be an actor, I'm gonna do the theater, I'm gonna do a lot of people might get pushback from that. Are you sure you wanna do that? But the teaching is a solid career. So that's actually it was it was the reverse. when I was in college, my parents David: didn't feel that they were spending all that money to go to this college so that I could be a teacher and make no money. Mm. And I heard about that from them at the time. So you did, okay. but once I was once I graduated and got a job right away, and by the way, my first my first salary at Wantagh High School was twelve thousand dollars. Darren Petronella: didn't feel that they were spending all that money to go to this college so that I could be a teacher and make no money. Mm. And I heard about that from them at the time. So you did, okay. but once I was once I graduated and got a job right away. And by the way, my first my first salary at Wonto High School was twelve thousand dollars. But, you know, I was thrilled thrilled with that. Yeah. Right. David: But I was thrilled thrilled with that. Yeah. Right. but they they thought you know, and those years they were excessing teacher. So my parents thought I wouldn't get a job and and but I did, so they s stopped. Right. Yeah, the theater they didn't they didn't never object it to. they they were impressed by that. Right. But they thought teaching would would lead to nothing and you know eventually I stopped saying that. Right. That's good. When I bought my own house. Darren Petronella: but they they thought and those years they were excessing teach so my parents thought wouldn't get a job and and but I did, so they s stopped Right. Yeah, the theater they didn't they didn't never object it to. they they were impressed by that. Right. But they thought teaching would would lead to nothing and you know. Eventually they stopped saying that. Right. That's good. When I bought my own house. Other than your other than your family, did you have people in your life that were David: Other than your other than your family, did you have people in your life that were either questioning of what you're doing? Like the like or were they were you did you always find support? a lot of people like, okay, I'm not gonna be friends with them unless they support me. But like, did you ever get pushback from anybody? Like a lot of people make fun of teachers because of this or that or whatever sterotypes or whatever. Just curious if you ever got any of that You know, I think people who knew me felt Darren Petronella: either questioning of what you're doing, the like or were they were you did you always find support? a lot of people okay, I'm not gonna be friends with them unless they support me. But like did you ever get pushback from anybody? Like a of people make fun of teachers because of this or that or whatever serotypes or whatever. Just curious if you ever got any of that You know, I think people who knew me felt that this was an appropriate field for me to be in. Good fit for you. Yeah, good fit for me. David: That this was an appropriate field for me to be in. Good fit for Yeah, good fit for me. So no, I I it made sense to them. Right. Right. Okay. Interesting. so okay, so let's get into then the the kind of the pivot moment, which is really what happened. Okay, you're getting to the end of your career. You you know that that that time is gonna come. you were you were you were directing a lot of shows, as I said in your intro, and you you said you directed hundreds of shows over the years. Darren Petronella: So no, I I it made sense to them. Right. Right. Okay. Interesting. so okay, so let's get into then the the kind of the pivot moment, which is really what happened. Okay, you're getting to the end of your career. You you know that that that time is gonna come. you were you were you were directing a lot of shows, as I said in your intro, and you you said you directed hundreds of shows over the years. but you know, at some point, you know, things kind of evolve. David: But, at some point, things evolve. you were thinking about what what am I gonna do in retirement. Tell tell me about that process. You know, I knew when I had about a couple of years away from from the the age where I could retire. Right. I didn't want to keep teaching just 'cause I couldn't think of anything else to do. Darren Petronella: you were thinking about what what am I gonna do in retirement. Tell tell me about that process. I knew when I had about a couple of years away from from the the age where I could retire. Right. I didn't want to keep teaching just 'cause I couldn't think of anything else to do. I didn't David: I didn't give up teaching 'cause I didn't like it anymore. I d it just you know, thirty-five years is is a a long time. And I thought what else you know can I do? And and just when those thoughts were entering my mind, I was offered this theater. and I was a year away from when I could retire, year and a half away. Darren Petronella: give up teaching because I didn't like it anymore. I d it just thirty-five years is is a a long time. It's long time. And I thought what else you know can I do? And and just when those thoughts were entering my mind, I was offered this theater. and I was a year away from when I could retire, year and a half away. David: and I w actually this is how it happened. Yeah, I want to hear the story. All right. That's what we're here for. Darren Petronella: And I w actually this is how it happened. Yeah, I want to hear the story. All right. That's what we're here for. David: The owner of the theatre before me had asked me w was ask he wanted to hire me to direct a show. Mm-hmm. So I read the script and I thought, my god, this is awful. What show was it? The word clot it was a play on the word clothed. Darren Petronella: The owner of the theater before me had asked me w was ask he wanted to hire me to direct the show. Mm-hmm. So I read the script and I thought, my god, this is awful. What show was it? The word clot it was a play on the word clothes. Clothes, like like garment? Yes. David: Clothes like like garment? Yes. Darren Petronella: Okay. it was just a silly play. David: it was just a silly play. And I and I thought, all right l let me read it again. I read it again. I said, This is hopeless. I can't make this work So Darren Petronella: And I and I thought, all right l let me read it again. I read it again. I said, This is hopeless. I can't make this work. So David: I drove over to his office and I was gonna tell him I j I just don't think it's for me. And I thought, All right, he's never gonna use me again. He's never this is it. I he's never so but I don't care. I can't devo vote the next two months on this. Right. So I went in to the office and he was on the phone and his the the woman who was who let me in, Marion, said Darren Petronella: I drove over to his office and I was gonna tell him I j I just don't think it's for me. And I thought, all right, he's never gonna use me again. He's never you know, this is it. I he's never so but I don't care. I can't devo vote the next two months on this. Right. So I went in to the office and he was on the phone and his the the woman who was who let me in, Marion, said David: he's on the phone but he does he wants to talk to you. I thought, damn it, I just wanted to do the script and tell Marion tell him I can't do it, you know. So, Darren Petronella: he's on the phone but he does he wants to talk to I thought, damn it. I just wanted to do the script and tell Marion tell him I can't do it, you know. So David: He called me and he was still on the phone. And yeah, he goes I said, Listen, Bob, I d I don't think this script is a good match for me. Right. He said, All right, never mind that. He said, do you want to buy the theater? He was do he said this while he's on all his whole I said he I went in thinking he's gonna fire me. Right. No, he asked me to buy the theater. my gosh. I said, What? He said, Yeah, I'm I'm gonna Darren Petronella: He called me and he was still on the phone. And and you know he was I said, Listen, Bob, I d I don't think this script is a good match for me. He said, All right, never mind that. He said, do you wanna buy the theater? He was do he said this while he's on all his hold has a I think he I went in thinking he's gonna fire me. Right. No, he asked me to buy the theater. my gosh. I said, What? He said, Yeah, I'm I'm gonna David: Let it go, now he had two other theaters. Okay. So this he just let this one go. Mm. Which was my favorite place to work. Darren Petronella: Let it go. now he had two other theaters. Okay. So this you just let this one go, mm, which was my favorite place to work. I said, I c can I call you tomorrow? So I as luck will have it, I was on my way to a restaurant which was owned by a friend of mine out east and and I told him what just happened. And he said, Well that would David: I said, I c can I call you tomorrow? Do you need an answer right now? So a as luck will have it, I was on my way to a restaurant which was owned by a friend of mine out east and and I told him what just happened. And he said, Well that would you'd be crazy. You have no background in business. I said, You're right. I have no business being in business. I can direct plays and but Darren Petronella: Crazy, you have no background in business. I said, You're right. I have no business being in business. I can direct plays and but I can't run a business. I have nothing in my background. And theater is, you know, a a business that is more precarious than any other. And I said, Absolutely not. And I can't I can't do this. So I told my friend to own the restaurant and David: can't run a business. I have nothing in my background. And theater is, you know, a a business that is more precarious than any other. And I said, absolutely not. And I can't I can't do this. So I told my friend to own the restaurant and you know, we agreed that was a smart move. And the next morning I woke up and I called Bob I said, Yeah I'll do it Be you know, because Darren Petronella: we agreed that was a smart move. And the next morning I woke up and I called Bob. I said, Yeah, I'll do it. B because what I was thinking was I was looking for something to do with my retirement. Sure. And this was my last best hope for something meaningful. And if I failed at this and lost a lot of money, I would recover from that. David: what I was thinking was I was looking for something to do with my retirement. True. And this was my last best hope for something meaningful. And if I failed at this and lost a lot of money, I would recover from that. Right. But if I'm living with regret down the line because this theater closed and I could have saved it or I could have had a meaningful Darren Petronella: But if I'm living with regret down the line because this theater closed and I could have saved it or I could have had a meaningful retirement, I would feel worse about that than losing some money. Right. Right. And and so during my first year, about three months in, I I remember sitting in the theater thinking. David: retirement right I would feel worse about that than losing some money. Right. Right. And and so during my first year, about three months in, I I remember sitting in the theater thinking, I don't know how I'm gonna pay the rent next month. I don't I don't think I'm gonna make it through this first year. And I'm gonna look so stupid. Darren Petronella: I don't know how I'm gonna pay the rent next month. I don't I don't think I'm gonna make it through this first year. And I'm gonna look so stupid. but somehow, you know, w I kept going and it like we'd come to Friday and I'd have a payroll and and that I couldn't meet. So I would take money out of my own personal ac account. And I guess they say in the producers, never use your own your own money. I've kept using my own money. Right. David: But somehow, you know, w I kept going. And it like we'd come to Friday and I'd have a payroll and and then I couldn't meet. So I would take money out of my own personal ac account. And I guess they say in the producers never use your own your own money. I kept using my own money. Right. and I thought, all right, I am going to keep this theater open for five years. Okay. At least five years, as much money as it cost me. Darren Petronella: And I thought, all right, I am going to keep this theater open for five years. Okay. At least five years, as much money as it cost me. David: at that point I s I would tell myself five years it was not a failure. Right. That's true. Yeah. And now it's twelve years and for some reason we're still there. Wow. Yeah. Now when you bought it w or took Darren Petronella: at that point I said I would tell myself five years it was not a failure. Right. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. And now it's twelve years. And for some reason we're still there. Wow. Now when you bought it, or David: it over and you I assume you Yeah, it's a not for profit, so you don't own it. Right, see right. Right. So and and you have some other managing I know in your program you you have like a managing partner. Darren Petronella: It and I assume you're Yeah, it's a not-for-profit, so you don't own it. Right, right. Right. So and and you have some other managing, I know in your program you you have like a managing partner, or you have your managing partner and you're you have like a team of partners. Yeah. What happened was after five years, COVID hit. Okay. David: Your managing partner and your you like a team of partners, yeah. What happened was after five years, COVID hit. And Darren Petronella: And David: We were cl we closed and and now there's no money coming in. Darren Petronella: We were clot we closed and and now there's no money coming in. Right. Right. a theater company that really ran a program for kids only w had a great program with a lot of kids but no theater. David: a theater company that really ran a program for kids only w had a great program with a lot of kids but no theater. So we we entered into a deal and when you know we could finally open, that has become the thing that really keeps the doors open. True. and this is really a miracle. We were on the theater was on the second floor. It's it's on Wellwood Avenue in Lindenhurst. which won't mean anything to your listeners who are in France right now. But this is on Long Island. Darren Petronella: So we we entered into a deal and when you know we could finally open, that has become the thing that really keeps the doors open. Sure. and and this is really a miracle. We were on the theater was on the second floor. It's it's on Wellwood Avenue in Lindenhurst. which won't mean anything to your listeners who are in France right now. But this is on Long Island. how many w where are the people listening to this? They can be anywhere in the world. I mean, I I we post our podcasts on on Spotify, on YouTube, on Apple Podcasts. so yeah, people can access anywhere. So one of my sub subscribers to the theater, Rick Hochmeister, had been going to the theater for this theater for many years, he and his wife, and we were on this David: how many people where are the people listening to Anywhere in the world. I mean, I I we post our podcasts on on Spotify, on YouTube, on Apple Podcasts. so yeah, people can access anyway. So one of my sub subscribers to the theater, Rick Hochmeister, had been going to the theater for this theater for many years, he and his wife. And we were on Theater's always been on the second floor since nineteen seventy when it when it was started. And I didn't realize this, but he he was or is a retired Grumman engineer. And he said, You know, if you move the theater to the first floor, I can build you a theater. I said, Wait a minute. We can't move to the first f well, actually we could because during COVID the business underneath us Darren Petronella: Theater's always been on the second floor since nineteen seventy when it when it was started. And I didn't realize this, but he he was or is a retired Grumman engineer. And he said, You know, if move the theater to the first floor, I can build you a theater. I said, Wait a minute, we can't move to the first f well actually we could because during COVID the business underneath us Was a bridal shop, went out of business. So now it was open, but I was barely paying the rent upstairs. Right. Now you have to take on another space. He said, You can call call the landlord, make a deal. I was like I can't do but we did. And Rick Hochmeister built this theater. It took a year. Now we were closed for a year because COVID. Right. I mean, it was a coincidence, but it worked really to our advantage. David: a bridal shop, went out of business. So now it was open, but I was barely paying the rent upstairs. Right. Now you have to take on another space. He said you can call call the landlord make a deal. I was I can't do but we did. And Rick Hochmeister built this theater. It took a year. Now we were closed for a year because COVID. Right. I it was a coincidence, but it worked really to our advantage. Right. Amazing. He built the theater on the first floor and with big picture windows out front. So now people knew we were there. This theater had been upstairs for all those years, no one knew it was there. That's right. And n not only did he build the theater, but he didn't charge us. It was a miracle. Wow. I mean, hundreds of thousands of dollars. And and he took care of that. Darren Petronella: He built the theater on the first floor and with big picture windows out front. So now people knew we were there. This theater had been upstairs for all those years, no one knew was there. That's right. And n not only did he build the theater, but he didn't charge us. It was a miracle. Wow. I mean, hundreds of thousands of dollars. And and he took care of that. David: That's amazing. It is it is amazing. It it the the expression couldn't have done it without you. Well, I literally couldn't have done it without him. He he he it was it was really a miracle. And after just about when COVID was was done wreaking havoc, we were able to op open downstairs. And now it's not that uncommon for us to sell out on a Sunday afternoon, matinee. we just did the musical hairspray. Darren Petronella: That's amazing. It is it is amazing. It it the the expression couldn't have done it without you. Well, literally couldn't have done it without he he he it was it was really a miracle. And after just about when COVID was was done wreaking havoc, we were able to op open downstairs. And now it's not that uncommon for us to sell out on a Sunday afternoon, Madonnae. we just did the musical hairspray. David: every performance sold out. That's great. And we were just hanging on. Right. And and everything has has turned around. Really turned around. Yeah. That's unbelievable. And that's amazing how generous of time and and skill and money that this person was to and and the timing was you you could not match that kind of timing. Yeah. Tim. So what I wanna go back to though is that when you took it over, Bob O'Neal was the previous owner, right? And that that's how you purchased it from and Darren Petronella: every performance sold out. That's great. And we were just hanging on right and and everything has has turned around. Really turned around. Yeah. That's unbelievable. And that's amazing how generous of time and and skill and money that this person was to and and the timing was you you could not match that kind of timing. Yeah. Timing. So what I wanna go back to though is that when you took it over, Bob O'Neill is the previous owner, right? And that that's how you purchased it from when David: Tell me about how you transitioned from being the teacher and the director to being now an owner and a manager of a theater. Like, because you do have to learn some business skills along the way, whether it's accounting or payroll or or you know more hiring and firing, not that you haven't done that as a director, but like like tell me about some of those challenges that you were feeling when you first took it over. Darren Petronella: Tell me about how you transitioned from being the teacher and the director to being now an owner and a manager of a theater. Like, because you do have to learn some business skills along the way, whether it's accounting or payroll or or you know more hiring and firing, not that you haven't done that as a director, but like like tell me about some of those challenges that you were feeling when you first took it over. David: The most important skill that I developed was to be able to say no. Mm-hmm. Because if you make the wrong decision, I mean it could be existential. Y y you're out of business because no one's coming to that show and now you can't pay the bills and now you're out of business. So I I knew there was a lot at stake with every decision that I made there. Darren Petronella: The most important skill that I developed was to be able to say no. Mm-hmm. Because if you make the wrong decision, I mean it could be existential. You y you're out of business because no one's coming to that show and now you can't pay the bills and now you're out business. So I I knew there was a lot at stake with every decision that I made there. David: I hear from people all the time, almost on a daily basis, where they have a script. They they I got one today. where they want they want me to produce it or a director wants to work there or and you have to have a feel for what's gonna work and what's not gonna work. You know, I've s I've had so many stand up comedians or would be stand up comedians who who say, Yeah, can we do a weekend there? We have such a following and I've heard that in the beginning. There was w Darren Petronella: I hear from people all the time, almost on a daily basis, where they have a script. They they I got one today. where they want they want me to produce it or a director wants to work there or and you have to have a feel for what's gonna work and what's not gonna work. You know, I've s I've had so many stand up comedians or would be stand up comedians who who say, Yeah, can we do a weekend there? We have such a following and I've heard that in the beginning. There was w David: One guy. He said, No, no, we we've a pretty good following and opening night of his act, there were three people in the audience. gosh. and we were supposed to split the box office. So you learn I mean, you learn quickly. you make the wrong decision, you you're out of business. And and before you take over you can't anticipate those things so you think you know, but it's not until you get burned a few times where you you know Darren Petronella: One guy he said, No, no, we we've a pretty good following and opening night of his act, there were three people in the audience. gosh. and we were supposed to split the box over. So you learn I mean you learn quickly. you make the wrong decision, you you're out of business. And and before you take over you can't anticipate those things or you think you know, but it's not until you get burned a few times where you you know. David: develop a sixth sense about what's not gonna work. So other than trial by fire in terms of saying no or or saying yes too many times and then saying don't what what's the process for that? Like how did you learn that discretion? you've been able to make a lot of important decisions for your own career, but also as a director, like who's gonna be right for the part or how you how do you do this or that? But if from a business standpoint, that's not always clear. No. Darren Petronella: develop a sixth sense about what's not gonna work. So other than trial by fire in terms of saying no or or saying yes too many times and then saying no w what what's the process for that? how did you learn that discretion? you've been able to make a lot of important decisions for your own career, but also as a director, like who's gonna be right for the part or how you how do you do this or that, but if from a business standpoint, that's not always clear. No. David: And there's a lot of at least with me, the last the first few years, there's a lot of trying to picture what it's gonna be and what it's gonna look like and who's gonna sh who would show up. Who do I know that's gonna come to this? And that that's how I started and and I I had a pretty good sense of what would work and and what wouldn't work. Okay. But like the very first show we did, it was a a a comedy by Anne Meara. Darren Petronella: And there's a lot of at least with me, the last the first few years, there's a lot of trying to picture what it's gonna be and what it's gonna look like and who's gonna sh who would show up. Who do I know that's gonna come to this? And that that's how I started and and I I had a pretty good sense of what would work and and what wouldn't work. But like the very first show we did, it was a a a comedy by Ann Mirror. David: Called Afterplay. And I thought we're doing ten performances. We need programs. Darren Petronella: called after play. Mm-hmm. And I thought, are we doing ten performances? We need programs. Right. David: So I ordered eight hundred programs. Okay, so for ten performances, eighty people in the seats for each night. And it cost me a dollar a program to have printed. So I spent eight hundred dollars. And we had about f thirty five a night. So I I was out like five hundred dollars. The first show. I Darren Petronella: So I ordered eight hundred programs. Okay, so for ten performances eighty people in the seats for each night. And it cost me a dollar a program to have printed. Okay. So I spent eight hundred dollars. And we had about f thirty five a night. So I I was out like five hundred dollars. The first show. Right. David: grossly overestimated who who was gonna come for that first show. You know, and and I must say, I'm disappointed because so many of my Darren Petronella: Grossly overestimated who who was gonna come for that first show. and and I must say, I'm disappointed because so many of my friends and colleagues and students, we're all coming. once you open the theater, we're all gonna be there. We'll all be there every night and every night. I haven't seen them. Some of them I've seen, but most of them no. there's one person that every time I run the show, no, we're coming. I said, Okay, it's been twelve years now. You keep saying that. David: Friends and colleagues and students, we're all coming. Yeah, once you open the theater, we're all gonna be We'll all be there every night and every night. Some of them I've seen, but most of them no. there's one person that every time I run into No, we're coming. I said, Okay, it's been twelve years now. You keep saying that. It's not that hard to get there. Right. But I mean it's that kind of thing where you lose five hundred dollars on the first show for programs that that you start to learn what what'll work. Darren Petronella: It's not that hard to get there. Right. But I mean it's that kind of thing where you lose five hundred dollars on the first show for programs that that you start to learn what what'll work and what won't work. Right. Okay. Anything else that you can over the last twelve years that you've learned about being a business owner, that you've learned that you never thought you were gonna learn but you have to learn. You know, after after the five years and the Covid and I learned that I needed I really needed business partners, that new business. David: What won't work. Right. Okay. Anything else that you can over the last twelve years that you've learned about being a business owner? that you've learned that you never thought you were gonna learn, but you learn. You know, after after the five years and the covet and I learned that I needed I really needed business partners that knew business. And which I have now. Right. that that has helped. I mean, they Darren Petronella: And which I have now. Right. that that has helped. I mean they they go on more than instinct. And I knew my instinct would take me just so much. You can only bring you so far. Yeah, just so far. And but after COVID when we had now we have the kids program there, I need someone, you know, who who really knows what they're doing. David: They go on more than instinct. And I knew my instinct would take me just so much. It's just so long. You only bring it so far. Yeah, just so far. And but after COVID when we had now we had the kids program there, I need someone, you know, who who really knows what they're doing. Right. And that that that really has helped because we are now actually making a little bit of money. Right. And and I'm starting to be paid back for all the money I put into it. Darren Petronella: And that that that really has helped because we are now actually making a little bit of money. Right. And and I'm starting to be paid back for all the money I put into it. That's that's a nice turn. Yeah. Yeah. That that's important that was able to be the case. I I I w have said I would like to make enough to pay myself back completely plus one dollar. So I could say yes, I did I did. I was profitable. Yes. That's right. That's right. So David: That's that's a nice turn. Yeah. Yeah. That that's important that was able to be the case. I I I w have said I would like to make enough to pay myself back completely plus one dollar. So I could say yes, I did I did make it. I was profitable. Yes. That's right. Right. That's right. So What would you say would be or maybe it's whether it's past or present tense, the scariest part of doing what you're doing now versus the having that that that you know, that job that was basically had good job security for thirty five years. You know, this is a job that is like from one day or one week or one show to the next, it can kinda like go in any d which direction. What what would you say would be the scariest other than the money? Is there any well Darren Petronella: What would you say would be or maybe it's whether it's past or present tense, the scariest part of doing what you're doing now versus the having the that that you know, that job that was basically had good job security for thirty five years. You know, this is a job that is like from one day or one week or one show to the next, it can kinda like go in any which direction. What what would you say would be the scariest other than the money? Is there any well David: I well, it was always the money. Of course it always comes down to that. Yeah, and there was several a couple of lawsuits where people had fallen and sued us. gosh. But that again that's that's money. That's money too. Yeah. anything outside of money that was like scary or like concerning to you or has been? Well, I mean I think it it always ends up being money. Like a couple of weeks ago we were doing a production of Neil Simon's Barefoot in the Park. Darren Petronella: I well, it was always the money. Money. yeah, I mean there was several a couple of lawsuits where people had fallen you know and sued us. gosh. But that again that's that's money. That's money too. Yeah. anything outside of money that was like scary or like concerning to you or has been? Well, I mean I think it it always ends up being money. Like a couple of weeks ago we were doing a production of Neil Simon's Barefoot in the Park. David: And I got a call at F Friday morning. We had three three shows that weekend that one of the leading perfor actors, actresses was do you say actress anymore? Is that is that not done? Some people yeah, a lot of people still say actress. anyway, she had the flu and she could not perform that weekend and and she was great in the role. and there was ten o'clock Friday morning and now what we're gonna do. Hmm. And again it's money because if I have to cancel these three shows. Darren Petronella: And I got a call at F Friday morning. We had three three shows that weekend. That one of the leading perfor actors actresses was do you say actress anymore? Is that is that not done? Some people yeah, a lot of people still say actors. anyway, she had the flu and she could not perform that weekend and and she was great in the role. and there was ten o'clock Friday morning that now we're gonna do. And again it's money because if I have to cancel these three shows. David: luckily, one of the actors in the show is married to a woman who's an actress and she had come to see the show and and we thought maybe she could go on with the script and and she agreed to do it and she she did really a a great job and and but, you know, before the performance I I told the audience what was gonna happen. So that I didn't want them looking at a woman holding a script thinking Darren Petronella: luckily, one of the actors in the show is married to a woman who's an actress and she had come to see the show and and we thought maybe she could go on with the script and and she agreed to do it and she she did really a a great job and and but, you know, before the performance I I told the audience what was gonna happen. So I I didn't want them looking at a woman holding a script thinking David: but the audience was very gracious and and gave her standing ovation opening night and you know, so many of them said, I didn't even see the script anymore. I didn't even notice it after a while. And but she ended up doing the whole weekend. but it's those things. I mean like if you're on a theater where you show movies, that's not gonna happen. That's right. It's you know right. That's what live performances are. Yeah, live performances is always you there's no relaxing. Darren Petronella: but the audience was very gracious and and gave her standing ovation opening night and you know so many of them said I didn't even see the script anymore. I didn't even notice it after a while. And but she ended up doing the whole weekend. but it's those things. I mean like if you're on a theater where you show movies, that's not gonna happen. That's right. It's you know right. That's what live performance is. Yeah, live performances is always you there's no relaxing. David: Even even while the show is on and you're sitting in the lobby, anything can happen at any time. Absolutely at any time. I was there that Friday night when she took out that performance actually. So and she did great. Christine Cavanier. That's right, yes. She deserves her name out there in France or wherever this is played. That's great. That's great. So was there any skill or experience that you had from your teaching part of your career that really helped to Darren Petronella: Even even while the show is on and you're sitting in the lobby, anything can happen at any time. Absolutely at any time. I was there that Friday night when she took that performance actually. So and she did great. Christine Cavanier She deserves her name out there in France or wherever this is played. That's great. That's great. So was there any skill or experience that you had from your teaching part of your career that really helped to David: almost become a secret weapon when it came to being a business owner, specifically theater, I guess. Was there anything that was like something that you had developed? And it it might sound repetitive from what you had already said, but is there anything that you can recall, okay, well, I learned this being a teacher and I could then apply this to being a an owner or managing partner? You know, I before each performance I do come out and say a few words true to the audience. Right. And I think Darren Petronella: almost become a secret weapon when it came to being a business owner, specifically theater, I guess. Was there anything that was like something that you had developed? And it it might sound repetitive from w what you had already said, but is there anything that you can recall that okay, well, I learned this being a teacher and I could then apply this to being a an owner or managing partner. You know, I before each performance I do come out and say a few words sure to the audience. Right. And I think David: my years of teaching has helped me know what to say. Right, you know. That's that's a good point. Yeah. I want them to know if they weren't there at the last show that they missed something. Mm-hmm. Right. So they won't miss again. Right. And you know, and I let them know what's coming up also so they don't miss the next one. Mm-hmm and try and do it in a gentle way so they don't feel like I'm lecturing them. Right. Right. That's true. I think that I mean and you know this better more than most 'cause Darren Petronella: my years of teaching has helped me know what to say. Right. You know. That's that's a good point. Yeah. I want them to know if they weren't there at the last show that they missed something. Mm-hmm. Right. So they won't miss again. Right. And you know, and I let them know what's coming up also so they don't miss the next one. Mm and try and do it in a gentle way so they don't feel like I'm lecturing them. Right. Right. That's true. I think that I mean and you know this better more than most 'cause David: I did theater for a qu a a while and then I transitioned, but I I still use theater techniques or theater approaches to things in my my teaching, as I'm sure you did. and and just in a way somehow just the idea of like presenting yourself, just being you know, having that more I guess I don't say fearless personality, but just somebody who's like willing to to ask a question or to or take a chance or you know, you y before we were talking about Darren Petronella: I did theater for a qu a a while and then I transitioned, but I I still use theater techniques or theater approaches to things in the my teaching, as I'm sure you did. and and just in a way somehow just the idea of like presenting yourself, just being you know, having that more I guess I don't say fearless personality, but just somebody who's like willing to to ask a question or to or take a chance or you know, you y before we were talking about David: Calling on a kid and and and not shaming them if they say something ridiculous, Always make them feel like what they've said was worthwhile. And dealing with actors is very similar. You y they need I find they need to feel that they're not being threatened, that that they're putting themselves out there and it's valued and they can trust Darren Petronella: Calling on a kid and and and not shaming them if they say something ridiculous, Always make them feel like what they've said was worthwhile. And dealing with actors is very similar. You y they need I find they need to feel that they're not being threatened, that that they're putting themselves out there and it's valued and they can trust. David: trying things that that are you know unusual. And Darren Petronella: trying things that that are you know unusual. And David: I do try to create that that environment where they feel not nurtured, but that they're that they're respected and supported, yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, that I think that's that's that's very valid. so do you so now that you've been doing this for twelve years, do you think even putting aside the money that you're hopefully gonna get back in full, do you think that it's been a worth a worth like you're you're Darren Petronella: I do try to create that that environment where they feel not nurtured, but that they're that they're respected and supported, yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, that I think that's that's that's very valid. so do you so now that you've been doing this for twelve years, do you think even putting aside the money that you're hopefully gonna get back in full, do you think that it's been a worth a worth like you're you're David: You're happy that you that you made this choice. Yeah, I l I I think Darren Petronella: You're happy that you that you made this choice. Yeah, I l I I think David: When you do theater, what do you take with you when you're done w w you're going to see a show? Just memories. There's nothing to carry out with you. And when I think back to the evenings we've had over the last twelve years, so many really moving moments. and I do hear from audience members, you know, years later that they remember, you know, something that was Darren Petronella: When you do theater, what do you take with you when you're done and w you're going to see a show? Just memories. There's nothing to carry out with you. And when I think back to the evenings we've had over the last twelve years, so many really moving moments. and I do hear from audience members, you know, years later that they remember, something that was Compelling show that stayed with them. it's good to have that, you know, to take with you. And as a matter of fact, when I took over the theater, I said to the audience, it's my hope that I will give you every time you're here a morning after, that the next day you're still thinking about it or still feeling something from it. Right. And even if it was just a silly comedy, you're still laughing at something you saw the last night. I don't want to do a show where David: Compelling show that stayed with him. it's good to have that, you know, to take with you. And as a matter of fact, when I took over the theater, I said to the audience, it's my hope that I will give you every time you're here a morning after, that the next day you're still thinking about it or still feeling something from it. Right. And even if it was just a a silly comedy, you're still laughing at something you saw the last night. I don't want to do a show where The minute you get in your car you forgot what you just saw. Right. You already got the diner and you what did we see? I don't know. Right. it's not worth it to me to work on a show for two months and then be it's something that that the audience doesn't you know like a flicker and it goes away. Right. You know that. Right. Yeah. Absolutely. you have you interviewed Mary Ellen Kurtz? I'm going to. She's my next interview. Let me let me tell you about an e an evening with her that we did a show Darren Petronella: The minute you get in your car you forgot what you just saw. Right. You already got the diner and you what did we say? I don't know. Right. it's not worth it to me to work on a show for two months and then be it's something that that the audience doesn't you know. Like a flicker and it goes away. Right. You know that. Right. Yeah. Absolutely. you have you interviewed Mary Ellen Kurtz? I'm going to. She's my next interview. Let me let me tell you about an e an evening with her that we did a show David: It was a movie ten years ago called Florence Foster Jenkins. yes. Right with Meryl Streep. Meryl Streep. Yep. About a woman who sang opera in the I think the nineteen thirties, twenties or thirties. Yeah, something in New York City. And she she was awful. I mean she didn't know it though. Yeah, she sang her heart out, but she was always off key. She was just But everybody around her, including her husband who who helped finance her little career there, never told her the truth. Darren Petronella: It was a movie ten years ago called Florence Foster Jenkins. yes. Right with Merrill Street. Yep. About a woman who sang opera in the I think the nineteen thirties, twenties or thirties. Yeah, something like that. In New York City. And she she was awful. I mean she didn't know it though. Yeah, she sang her heart out, but she was always off key. She was just But everybody around her, including her husband who who helped finance her little career there, never told her the truth. David: You they indulged her. Right. And she true story, she rented out was either Town Hall or Carnegie Hall? Carnegie Hall or something. Right, yeah. And Darren Petronella: they indulged her. Right. And she a true story, she rented out was either Town Hall or Carnegie Hall. Carnegie Hall or something. Right, yeah. And David: People came from all over to see her, but for all the wrong reasons. Right. Right. They came they came to laugh. Right. So we did the play version of Florence Foster Jenkins, which is called Souvenir. And Mary Ellen Kurtz played the po the lead. I know you're interviewing her next over sometime. Anyway, she now she's a gifted singer. Sure. But she had to sing off key all night, which is not easy for somebody who's trained. That's very true. Darren Petronella: People came from all over to see her, but for all the wrong reasons. Right. Right. They came they came to laugh. Right. So we did the play version of Florence Foster Jenkins, which is called Souvenir. And Mary Ellen Kurtz played the pa the lead. I know you're interviewing her next. Or sometime. Anyway, she now she's a gifted singer. Sure. But she had to sing off key all night, which is not easy for somebody who's trained. That's very true. David: And when we you know, we got to the scene where the audience laughs and then she realizes while she's on that stage. She keeps going, but she realizes. And she after that scene, she walks over to her piano accompanist and says to him, Why didn't you tell me? Darren Petronella: And when we you know we got to the scene where the audience laughs and then she realizes while she's on that stage. She keeps going, but she realizes. And she after that scene, she walks over to her piano accompanist and says to him, Why didn't you tell me? David: And every night when we did this show, the silence was deafening after she asked that question. They were all hoping he wouldn't say why they were laughing. Darren Petronella: And every night when we did this show, the silence was deafening after she asked that question. They were all hoping he wouldn't say why they were laughing. And he took a few seconds. And every night, no one coughed, no one breathed. It was a very human, you know, response to it. David: And he took a few seconds and every night no one coughed, no one breathed. It was a very human, response to it. You what, I'm not gonna tell the audience what happens next because maybe they'll see it someday. But that experience that everyone shared in that theater is something that I'm very pleased with and proud of because it it was so human and so empathetic and compassionate and and they were hoping against hope that her feelings wouldn't be hurt. Darren Petronella: You know what I'm not gonna tell you on is what happens next because maybe they'll see it someday. But that experience that everyone shared in that theater is something that I'm very pleased with and proud of because it it was so human and so empathetic and compassionate and and they were hoping against hope that her feelings wouldn't be hurt. David: And I think that's the kind of memory that th theater gives you. And when you know, we've done it there for twelve years, I've had a lot of moments like that, a lot of evenings like that. And I think it does make you more human to to live through that kind of a an experience. Yeah. And that's what it's for. Exactly. You know, so I have even if, you know, I don't I don't make any more money back, Darren Petronella: And I think that's the kind of memory that th theater gives you. And when you know, we've done it there for twelve years, I've had a lot of moments like that, a lot of evenings like that. And I think it does make you more human to to live through that kind of a an experience. Yeah. And that's what it's for. Exactly. You know, so I have even if, you know, I don't I don't make any more money back, David: I have enough of these evenings stored away in my right mind to say this is that this was worthwhile. Right. Yeah. It's worth your time and yeah and energy and everything else. all right. Well, I want to thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us. But I enjoyed it. One more question for you. this is my signature question, what would be the one line of the story that is David Dubin that you would want Darren Petronella: I have enough of these evenings stored away in my right mind to say this is that this was worthwhile. Right. Yeah. It's worth your time and yeah and energy and everything else. all right. Well, I wanna thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us. But I have one more question for you. this is my signature question, what would be the one line of the story that is David Dubin that you would want David: the audience who's going to listen and and or watch this to take away from like what would be something that you would want them to know that that something that either you learned or something you recommend or something that that they should take away from your story in terms of what you've done, what you've accomplished and what and we and your reflections about those things. Going into this you call it a pivot if I had known Darren Petronella: the audience who's going to listen and or watch this to take away from like what would be something that you would want them to know that that something that either you learned or something you would recommend or something that that they should take away from your story in terms of what you've done, what you've accomplished and what and we and your reflections about things. Going into this, you call it a pivot. If I had known David: What I know now. I never would have done it. So I'm glad I didn't know. I'm glad I didn't know. That's a really interesting that's a interesting thing to say, but you're right. Because sometimes when you do know too much, you sometimes figure out a way to talk yourself out. Mm-hmm. And so that sometimes it's good to kinda go into things and say, Let's see where this is gonna go. Right. So that's great. Well said. Darren Petronella: What I know now. I never would have done it. So I'm glad I didn't know. I'm glad I didn't know. That's a really interesting that's a interesting thing to say, but you're right. Because sometimes when you do know too much, you sometimes figure out a way to talk yourself out. Mm-hmm. And so that sometimes it's good to kinda go into things and say, Let's see where this is gonna go. Right. So that's great. Well said. David: So Ruben, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for for being here today and for taking the time to speak with us. Attend the tale is brought to you by Career Pivot 123 LLC. Go to careerpivot123.com to learn about our services and contact us. Are you stuck or feeling stuck at a career crossroads, wondering which path to take next? You're not alone. Check out the Prosper Pilot. Darren Petronella: Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you for having Thank you so much for for being here today and for taking the time to speak with us. Attend the tale is brought to you by Career Pivot 123 LLC. Go to career pivot one two three dot com to learn about our services and contact us. Are you stuck or feeling stuck at a career crossroads, wondering which path to take next? You're not alone. Check out the Prosper Pilot. David: Your Career Clarity Accelerator, a comprehensive career exploration tool designed to cut through the confusion and give you a clear personalized path forward. Here's what you'll get: a personalized career report tailored to your interests, skills, work values, and personality, actionable next steps, no more wondering what should I do now, and a sense of direction and a roadmap for you to explore and pursue. Find out more and get started today at CareerPivot 1232. Darren Petronella: Your Career Clarity Accelerator, a comprehensive career exploration tool designed to cut through the confusion and give you a clear personalized path forward. Here's what you'll get: a personalized career report tailored to your interests, skills, work values, and personality, actionable next steps, no more wondering what should I do now, and a sense of direction and a roadmap for you to explore and pursue. Find out more and get started today at CareerPivot 123.com. David: dot com slash services. Thank you so much everyone for listening and watching today and we'll see you next time. Have a great day. Darren Petronella: dot com slash services. Thank you so much everyone for listening and watching today and we'll see you next time. Have a great day.