Latest / Show, don't Tell Writing with Suzy Vadori / 25. Interview with Fantasy Author Allyson McCollum

Transcript

25. Interview with Fantasy Author Allyson McCollum · Show, don't Tell Writing with Suzy Vadori

• 0:07
  Welcome to Show Don't Tell Writing with me, Suzy Vadori, where I teach you the tried and true secrets to writing fiction, nonfiction, that are going to wow your readers broken down step by step.
• 0:18
  We're going to explore writing techniques.
• 0:21
  I'm going to show you a glimpse behind the scenes of successful writers careers that you wouldn't have access to otherwise.
• 0:27
  And I'm also going to coach writers live on their pages so that you can learn and transform your own storytelling.
• 0:33
  Whether you're just starting out, you're drafting your first book, you're editing, or you're currently rewriting that book, or maybe even your 10th book, this show is going to help you unlock the writing skills that you didn't even know you needed.
• 0:45
  But you definitely do.
• 0:48
  I'm so excited.
• 0:48
  So looking forward to helping you get your amazing ideas from your mind onto your pages in an exciting way for both you and your readers so that you can achieve your wildest writing dreams.
• 1:00
  And you're going to also have some fun doing it.
• 1:02
  Let's dive in.
• 1:05
  Hi everyone.
• 1:06
  Welcome back.
• 1:07
  I am so excited today to have on the podcast, Alison McCollum, Allison is a writer that I met several years ago now.
• 1:16
  She joined my Wicked Good Fiction Boot Camp in 2021.
• 1:21
  She had this huge vision for this really amazing paranormal fantasy.
• 1:26
  It's for young adults.
• 1:27
  And it's all about the afterlife and death and the Grim Reaper.
• 1:32
  And if anyone could pull this off, it is Alison.
• 1:36
  Her prose is just the most beautiful language that I have seen in a long time.
• 1:42
  And juxtaposing that with this topic.
• 1:45
  It was just such a breath of fresh air.
• 1:48
  I am so excited for you all to read this book, to hear what Allison has to say.
• 1:54
  I worked with her on this concept in the boot camp and she worked through it and finished the draft.
• 2:00
  I then had the immense privilege of performing a developmental edit on this book just about a year ago now, in October of 2023.
• 2:10
  And then a couple of weeks ago Alison sent me the published book in the mail and I didn't even know what she was up to because we kind of lost touch over the revision period and she sent it to me as a thank you and I opened it up and I was just so excited and I emailed her right away and said, come on the podcast, tell me what's going on, let's catch up, let's figure out what happened.
• 2:33
  I love bringing writers that I've worked with on the podcast because I get this opportunity to have a conversation.
• 2:39
  This deeper conversation about how that book evolved and how it developed and that's what I really want to share with you the listeners is how these books actually come to be and what the dream was and what the writers had to do to get there.
• 2:54
  Allison lives in Georgia in the mountains and she says that she writes to procrastinate on her chores and she does chores to procrastinate on writing.
• 3:04
  When she doesn't really do her justice, she dedicates a ton, a ton of time to writing.
• 3:10
  To writing and I just can't wait for this conversation.
• 3:14
  I'm going to read you an excerpt or the blurb from the back of the book to just get you pumped.
• 3:20
  Oh, and the book is called Moore's Oblivisons, and I hope I said that right, but basically it means forgetting death, and that's in Latin.
• 3:28
  And I love that she used, it's so meta and we talk about this on the podcast.
• 3:32
  She used a dead language to name her book about death.
• 3:35
  It is so cool.
• 3:37
  Okay, so here's the blurb from the back of the book.
• 3:39
  What happens after death?
• 3:41
  Flit has no idea who she is.
• 3:44
  She doesn't remember her name, how she got here, or where here is.
• 3:48
  When she encounters the Grim Reaper, who tells her that she has died and is now in purgatory, Unlike other souls who pass on to heaven or hell, her only real option is to leave with him.
• 4:00
  He gives her a name and takes her with him to an abandoned cabin where she tries to recover her memories.
• 4:06
  As she helps him retrieve the souls of the dead, she starts to wonder what really happened to her.
• 4:12
  Was she supposed to die?
• 4:13
  What happened to her family?
• 4:15
  Did someone kill her?
• 4:16
  As they reap more passing souls and face new creatures, she has more questions than answers.
• 4:24
  There is a war brewing, and Flit finds herself caught in the threads of a battle between angels and demons descending into the depths of hell to save someone she thought was a myth.
• 4:35
  Will she help the angels and prevail, or will she learn that the secrets of death are darker than she could have imagined?
• 4:43
  Yes, great job on the blurb Allison.
• 4:45
  This really captures what the book is about and Allison has woven the mythology of many many different from her Baptist upbringing to many many different religions into this and her concept of the afterlife.
• 5:00
  I can't wait to share this conversation with you.
• 5:03
  There's tons of revelations in it and definitely check out the book.
• 5:06
  It is one that you are super going to enjoy in a way that you probably don't expect.
• 5:12
  Without further ado, here is my conversation with Alison.
• 5:18
  Alison, congratulations.
• 5:20
  It's been about eight weeks since your book, and I'm going to let you say the title cause it's hard.
• 5:26
  Go ahead.
• 5:27
  Moore's Oblivion.
• 5:29
  Moore's Oblivion, I can, I can mirror it.
• 5:31
  Moore's Oblivion was launched and how's it all going so far?
• 5:36
  It's been pretty good.
• 5:37
  I've gotten a good bit of interest, mostly online.
• 5:41
  We have not gotten the ebook count back yet, because apparently that takes longer, but I have sold 36 physical copies so far that we know of.
• 5:53
  That's amazing.
• 5:54
  As of this week.
• 5:56
  As of this week.
• 5:56
  And I know that publishing this book has been something that you've been wanting to do for a long time.
• 6:02
  What's the dream?
• 6:03
  Like, what is your writing dream?
• 6:06
  I want to be able to at least make a decent li I don't have to get rich and famous.
• 6:13
  That'd be nice.
• 6:14
  But don't have to.
• 6:16
  I mean, I would like to make a living off of just writing because it's hard to find a job these days that's actually rewarding enough to stick with long term.
• 6:29
  Yeah, I love that.
• 6:31
  So how did you get into writing and what were you doing?
• 6:34
  Like, how did you prepare for it?
• 6:36
  How did you start writing?
• 6:38
  Well, I was taught to read and write in preschool, really.
• 6:44
  Because my parents and grandparents didn't have anything else to do, I guess.
• 6:47
  And I've just always written stories all the way from elementary school onward.
• 6:53
  And just, you know, it's always been something I've been interested in.
• 6:57
  And then I found the Boot Camp, which helped me kind of organize things a little bit more.
• 7:04
  And found some other books and things like that.
• 7:07
  Because you can't ever have too many resources when it comes to that sort of thing, because there's so many different methods that some may work for you, some may not, and you just have to go through and find it.
• 7:19
  And then I found Ballast Publishing when I was looking for a publisher.
• 7:25
  I knew I didn't want to go through one of the big ones, because they, their waiting list is like years long, you may not get in, and it's, I don't have the patience for that.
• 7:36
  Yeah, and it's important, I mean, when you're designing your creative life as a writer, you can get creative, right?
• 7:42
  You get to make those decisions.
• 7:44
  And what other types of jobs, because I always love, especially because you came into the bootcamp and then we worked together a little bit there and then edited this manuscript together.
• 7:54
  But people from all walks of life bring such different skills to writing and I just find it fascinating.
• 8:00
  Like you've had other jobs that aren't writing jobs, right?
• 8:04
  Yeah.
• 8:05
  The first place I worked at was a home goods warehouse.
• 8:10
  Uh, it was like 45 minutes away from my house, and God, my feet hated that.
• 8:15
  It was pretty interesting though, because I would, uh, inspect the things as they came into the warehouse, make sure it was the correct thing, that it was going the right place.
• 8:27
  And they had some of the weirdest Furniture and stuff come through there.
• 8:31
  I think the ugliest thing I have ever seen in my life was a cowhide Couch and loveseat set that had silver paint splattered all over it.
• 8:43
  I don't know Who's aesthetic that's supposed to fit, but they wanted too much for it.
• 8:50
  So I think aesthetic for you.
• 8:53
  I mean, I just love this cover and we can't see it on the, we can't see it on the podcast, but it will be in the show notes.
• 9:01
  We'll have some pictures of the cover, but I just saw it.
• 9:04
  It came in the mail.
• 9:05
  I actually didn't realize that you were publishing so quickly.
• 9:07
  It's only been a year since we worked on the, on the developmental edit of this book together.
• 9:13
  And then it showed up in the mail.
• 9:15
  It's like, yeah, it snuck up on me too.
• 9:19
  Were you able to be involved in the cover?
• 9:21
  How did this cover come about?
• 9:22
  Or was that the publisher?
• 9:23
  So I sent them in a cover that I designed and they kind of used that to play around with because they had a graphic designer that designed that and she came up with five or six different proofs and was like, you know, which one of these do you think fits it the most?
• 9:40
  And that's what.
• 9:41
  We went with there were a couple of very minor changes to the original one that looked like that, but it wasn't anything super obvious.
• 9:51
  I don't think the flames were at the bottom of it.
• 9:54
  Originally.
• 9:56
  I love I love the flames actually, I think they were solid white instead of just the line something like that.
• 10:03
  I don't remember, but we made a couple of little minor changes to it.
• 10:09
  Beautiful.
• 10:10
  And when I first read the sample that you sent me of your writing when inquiring about editing a year ago, What struck me was your incredibly beautiful use of language, and you have such a literary feel to your writing, which is unusual and really refreshing in the fantasy and paranormal fantasy genre.
• 10:30
  Did you know that what you're bringing to the table is different?
• 10:34
  Did you realize that your writing was different?
• 10:36
  I kind of thought that it was because other things that I've written and shown to people, they're like, I heard your voice while I was reading this.
• 10:47
  And I don't talk exactly like that, but sometimes if I'm, you know, describing something, it does tend to lean that way.
• 10:55
  But I guess that's probably, you know, due to the books that I read and I do have an English degree.
• 11:00
  So that probably didn't help.
• 11:03
  It absolutely helps.
• 11:05
  I think your, your use of language is uncommonly excellent.
• 11:10
  And so I think what is amazing about this book and what I want listeners to know.
• 11:15
  Is that you are in for a ride that you are going to be completely, completely immersed and they want to talk about some of that because in paranormal fantasy, there's often themes of the afterlife, right?
• 11:29
  And this book is a really, really fresh take on this.
• 11:33
  Can you share with us a bit of your magic system and what makes it so unique about this afterlife?
• 11:39
  That split experiences in the book?
• 11:43
  Well, I kind of, I tried to incorporate how I was raised, but not in the usual lens that it's usually projected with because a lot, I was raised Baptist, but a lot of, I'm not really religious now per se, I guess you could say, but I tried to use a lot of that, you know, mythology.
• 12:03
  And then I took a religion class in college and learned more about other religions, so I kind of tried to incorporate them and connect them.
• 12:11
  some kind of way that I'd never personally seen before, but still made sense to me.
• 12:18
  Yeah.
• 12:19
  And I mean, your, your afterlife is quite dark, right?
• 12:24
  It's, it's dark and I love it.
• 12:26
  You have so many interesting things.
• 12:28
  You have coins and you have like all these different pieces and you have the embodiment of the Grim Reaper.
• 12:35
  Grim is one of the main characters in there, right?
• 12:38
  And how did that all, how did that all come about for you?
• 12:42
  So, the original, original story kind of, it came out of a dream that I had that was a little bit different because, you know, in the book, spoilers y'all, Flit drowned.
• 12:56
  In the original 1, there was a fire and she still stayed with Graham and all that.
• 13:02
  And I don't remember exactly how it ended.
• 13:05
  I think it may have ended on a cliffhanger because, you know, I'm a writer.
• 13:08
  Of course, it did.
• 13:09
  But I don't know.
• 13:10
  What inspired the dream really, it was just kind of a random 1 off.
• 13:15
  Out of nowhere, and it just kind of stuck with me, I guess.
• 13:19
  And then I tried to use that story in school for different writing assignments, and it just kind of evolved from there.
• 13:28
  So it's been a story that's been with you for a long time.
• 13:31
  Then long, long time.
• 13:33
  It just didn't get written down until.
• 13:36
  2019, I think is when I actually sat down and was like, oh, I could actually turn that into a book because in college, I want to say it was that year.
• 13:47
  It may have been 18.
• 13:49
  I took a screenwriting class and used it for 1 of our final assignments where we had to come up with an original story and turn it into a screenplay or at least part of it.
• 14:01
  And that's where it started, you know, evolving into the.
• 14:07
  And each book is only one person's story, and you and I have had this conversation before, and primarily, we had lots of discussion about in your early drafts, you had a lot of different point of views, because I think that's how the story came to you, and then in the discussions.
• 14:24
  Really, it's about Grimm and Flit, and Flit's story of how it all unfolds.
• 14:31
  And I see that you've still got those snippets from some of the other points of view, but you've grouped them at the end, which is great.
• 14:38
  It's really effective.
• 14:39
  But how changing these points of view go during your revision process?
• 14:43
  Because you and I haven't really discussed that.
• 14:45
  We worked together on the editing process and you got all your feedback and then you went away and revised it and now you're published.
• 14:51
  So how did it all go when you took all those different points of views and you kind of put more of Grimm into the second half?
• 14:58
  How did that work out?
• 14:59
  It wasn't as hard as I thought it was gonna be.
• 15:02
  A lot of it was just changing pronouns around, honestly, and, you know, switching who did what.
• 15:09
  There were a couple of scenes where I had to add things in, because otherwise it wouldn't make sense from that person's point of view.
• 15:16
  And I did have to take out one person's point of well, no, it was a couple people's point of view entirely.
• 15:23
  But, I'm probably going to have a little novella that's Not in between the first and second book, but it goes with the second book that I'm slowly getting around writing.
• 15:40
  And I'm gonna try to incorporate some of the points of view that I had to throw out of the first book.
• 15:47
  Right.
• 15:48
  And I think, I mean, yes, it's a split story, but Grimm is my absolute fave.
• 15:52
  Grimm is your name for the Grim Reaper like character.
• 15:57
  He's Death himself, right?
• 15:59
  And you've managed to make a villain in your book really relatable.
• 16:04
  What motivated you to make this guy, this Death, so sympathetic?
• 16:11
  Well, those tend to be the better villains, because you can kind of see how they got to the point they got, and you're like, Ugh, if I was in that situation, would I have done the same thing?
• 16:23
  Would I have done something worse?
• 16:25
  You know, could I have resisted that temptation?
• 16:29
  And it makes you think.
• 16:30
  I mean, some of the just straight up evil villains don't make you think that much.
• 16:36
  Like that.
• 16:36
  They're just like, they're just evil for being evil.
• 16:39
  And there's some, there's some characters like that in the book, too, because I mean, they're demons.
• 16:44
  They're, they kind of have to be, you know, evil.
• 16:47
  They don't really have, well, they do have ulterior motives, but not in a positive sense, I guess.
• 16:54
  Yeah, and I mean, I just can't wait for readers to get a hold of this and for you to get it, like, more widely distributed, because people are gonna fall in love with Grim.
• 17:04
  I invite listeners, check this book out because you're just going to be so interested in Grimm.
• 17:10
  Flit 2, yes, Flit 2, but you're going to be really interested in this poor Beth character.
• 17:16
  And the book actually opens with Flit 2.
• 17:19
  death or what happens after her death and her not remembering anything about her human life or her life on earth and having to piece it back together.
• 17:30
  And this is like a classic formula or a classic structure for a suspense novel.
• 17:36
  When, when there's like that spoiler at the beginning, somebody's dead, there's murder, whatever, we see it, and then there's this The characters actually have to piece everything back together, so you kind of dole out clues along the way, but it's got that spoiler at the front.
• 17:52
  Did you set out to model that suspense format, or is it something that just happened as you wrote?
• 17:58
  It kind of just happened.
• 17:59
  I do watch, you know, crime dramas and, you know, true crime stuff and things like that.
• 18:05
  So that probably unconsciously, you know, influence that because that's one of the main things that I watch and read.
• 18:13
  And, you know, so I'm sure that snuck in there somehow.
• 18:18
  It also made the most sense structure wise because I didn't want to have to throw in like flashbacks and stuff because a lot of people don't like those.
• 18:27
  If they're all over the place, you can do a couple here and there, but don't get carried away with them.
• 18:34
  Yeah, so it was really neat the way that it unfolded because we knew that she died, but we didn't really understand what her story was.
• 18:41
  And then we kind of those moments and we get a real time as she's learning about herself and she learns her true name.
• 18:48
  I won't spoil it here.
• 18:49
  But she starts to remember pieces about her life and figures out on why she's in this situation and.
• 18:57
  Not a spoiler alert, but it won't be what you expect.
• 19:00
  It's actually a much, much more layered story.
• 19:03
  Everything that you've put into it is absolutely brilliant.
• 19:05
  You've got some amazing world building elements and the reasons why she ended up there and the mythology that you're able to bring in there and who Flit actually is, is really an amazing ride.
• 19:18
  So good job.
• 19:19
  The title itself, how did you come up with it?
• 19:22
  And what did you want it to invoke?
• 19:25
  Because I think when we spoke, like when we were working on this, you didn't have a title for the book yet.
• 19:30
  I really don't know where I got the idea for the Latin.
• 19:34
  I guess I thought forgetting death in English was just kind of, eh, you know, whatever.
• 19:38
  But Oh, is that what it means?
• 19:40
  I didn't even know that's what it meant.
• 19:41
  That's what it translates to, is forgetting death.
• 19:45
  And originally, I did not have it conjugated correctly because I did not take Latin.
• 19:51
  Because I didn't know that was an option in our school system until my husband told me, oh yeah, I took Latin all the way through high school and college.
• 19:59
  Amazing.
• 20:00
  I was stuck in Spanish the whole time.
• 20:02
  You mean I could have learned Latin?
• 20:04
  Nobody told me.
• 20:06
  Because it's such a vibrant language, right?
• 20:09
  So did he, did he help you with it?
• 20:11
  It's literally a dead language.
• 20:12
  I know.
• 20:13
  But, but that's amazing.
• 20:14
  And there's so many layers to that.
• 20:17
  I mean, your book is literally about the afterlife and death and an interpretation of that.
• 20:23
  And so, yeah, that you used a dead language is amazing.
• 20:27
  Did he help you with the conjugation then or who caught that?
• 20:30
  Yeah, he looked at whatever draft I was on when we, I think I was still in like the first or second draft when we started dating.
• 20:38
  It was like, this isn't conjugated, right?
• 20:41
  You do know that.
• 20:42
  Like, no, how would I know that?
• 20:44
  I love that you're just willing to take a risk like that.
• 20:47
  It's amazing.
• 20:48
  Yeah, I mean, I got it pretty close.
• 20:50
  I think I just had the words switched, because I don't remember how I had it written.
• 20:55
  But it was close, because I used Google Translate, and it was not quite where it needed to be.
• 21:01
  Well, I love it.
• 21:02
  It's very unique.
• 21:03
  Was it surprising how the relationship between Flit and Grimm turned out on your page?
• 21:10
  Because I think, you know, it's actually a really tender relationship, and their friendship is one of the more interesting parts about the book.
• 21:19
  And in early drafts, it wasn't pulled all the way to the end and that's something that we discussed and now it is because I really missed it when they kind of were going their separate ways and now you've kind of figured that piece out.
• 21:33
  But I was actually thrilled about how you were able to revise this and pull that connection all the way to the end.
• 21:39
  Are you happy with the results on that?
• 21:41
  Oh, definitely.
• 21:44
  Yeah, I wasn't expecting him.
• 21:48
  At first to be so, I don't know what word really to use, not exactly nurturing, but I guess protective of her, because, you know, most depictions of death, he's supposed to be impartial, unbiased, whatever, not in the middle of everything.
• 22:06
  And then this one is in the middle of everything, throwing monkey wrenches right and left.
• 22:13
  And it just kind of naturally evolved that way.
• 22:17
  And then when they split up, I was like, hmm, what would he do now that Kat's out of the bag, so to speak?
• 22:27
  And she's not there to help control those impulses, and he's not there to control her impulses.
• 22:36
  What kind of trouble can we get into?
• 22:39
  Yeah, I love that.
• 22:40
  And really, he's not human, and yet, you've got so many flawed and human and tender moments that really make it.
• 22:49
  I don't want to spoil.
• 22:50
  I'm trying to really spoil anything that really make it really make it good because I think writing about relationships, no matter what your topic, writing about relationships and being able to sort of show that humanness, everybody's going to find.
• 23:06
  There's something in there to pull away from it and everybody that reads this is going to be affected.
• 23:11
  So I just love that.
• 23:12
  I want to pull that forward.
• 23:22
  Thanks for tuning in to Show Don't Tell Writing with me, Susie Vadori.
• 23:25
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• 23:30
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• 23:37
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• 23:39
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• 23:52
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• 24:01
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• 24:07
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• 24:12
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• 24:17
  See you again next week.