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Safety and Healing in SRPMIC: A Conversation About Domestic Violence · Asked & Answered - your community podcast for all things legal

• 0:00
  Kierstin: So this is where our stories diverge because so it's so crazy because I kinda have some similar story, and we've never
• 0:08
  Alane: shared this. We've never talked about this at all.
• 0:10
  Kierstin: Yeah. So the thing is here, what I've learned today is if you want advice about this, you send them to Alane. You don't send them to me.
• 0:24
  Alane: Hello, and welcome to Ask and Answered, where we dig deep into stories and legal issues that matter here in Salt River. I'm your host, Alane Breland.
• 0:31
  Kierstin: Kierstin Anderson.
• 0:32
  Alane: And today we're talking about something difficult, but absolutely necessary.
• 0:36
  Kierstin: This is definitely a topic that I wasn't super excited to talk about because it is such a difficult topic, but I know it's super important. And I'm glad that Alane has suggested that we do talk about this today.
• 0:49
  Alane: So, we're going
• 0:49
  to be talking about domestic violence in indigenous communities. This episode is not just about statistics or headlines. It's about history and resilience and the urgent need for change. So some of what we may discuss may be distressing. Please take care while listening, and we'll also share resources throughout the podcast if you know someone who needs support.
• 1:07
  So while we get started, I think it's important to acknowledge that domestic violence doesn't just happen in a vacuum. It doesn't just happen to some families and not others. It happens across socioeconomic demographic divides. This is not a problem that is specific to indigenous communities or to Salt River. But in the context of indigenous communities, it is rooted in the history of colonization.
• 1:31
  So things like forced removals.
• 1:33
  Kierstin: And the suppression of language and culture.
• 1:35
  Alane: Boarding schools.
• 1:37
  Kierstin: Breakdown of traditional family and the governance systems.
• 1:41
  Alane: And these create generational trauma, which we see today. And I know that we both deal with domestic violence in different ways. Obviously, our office is prosecuting it, but there is some intersection with your office as well. And what would you
• 1:54
  say those ways are?
• 1:55
  Kierstin: So, yeah, individuals could come to our office for orders of protection. I know that your office does order protections as well. But there are times where when they're interfacing with your office, it's because of a criminal case. And so our orders of protection that we assist individuals with may not rise to the level of a criminal case, but it does have order or excuse me, there is violence that is involved or ways of harassment that is involved.
• 2:24
  So I wouldn't say that it couldn't rise to a criminal matter. It just may not be something at that point that your office is handling. And so, we can help the family within that context. The other thing is, too, is and we'll get on these topics down the road as you continue to listen to our podcasts. But we assist families with divorce cases and custody matters and visitation, and that all stems from some of the reasons why people are needing those things because of domestic violence and so forth.
• 2:59
  Alane: For sure. That's actually a good segue because it gives me a chance to talk about some of the jurisdictional barriers that exist when we're talking about domestic violence or really any crime that occurs here.
• 3:10
  Kierstin: Jurisdiction. It's such a hard and messy and confusing topic.
• 3:14
  Alane: For sure. It's the most complex in Indian country of all the criminal jurisdictions that exist. I think that the jurisdictional barriers and the jurisdictional question mark exist more here than really any other jurisdiction. But when we're talking about orders of protection, there's always the question of, Okay, where do I get my order of protection? Should I get it here in the Salt River Court?
• 3:33
  Should I get it in an outside court? And so when you're asking
• 3:35
  Kierstin: What do you mean? I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off.
• 3:38
  But what do you mean when you say outside court?
• 3:40
  Alane: So should I go through the city of Mesa or city of Scottsdale? Or should I go through, you know, here in Salt River? And our office, our victim advocate is happy to help you with any of your needs if you're getting an order of protection here in Salt River, but we can't help you outside the community. So that's where So that's your office comes in.
• 3:57
  Kierstin: Right, right. So, that's where our office could assist because our office can take cases that are outside of the community into those other jurisdictions that you're mentioning City Of Mesa, City Of Scottsdale, Maricopa County. If you also have your state case, and I just mentioned earlier about divorce or custody matters, Maricopa County, the Superior Court, may be handling your order protection as well because it could be part of your case, your overall family law case that's happening within the Superior Court. So, are things that we would insert ourselves in or help with.
• 4:35
  Alane: For sure. So, if you're someone who's going through this or who might need an order of protection, if you reside in the community and the person that you want to be protected from resides in the community and the incidents that you want to prevent are happening here, then a Salt River tribal order of protection is probably a great option for you.
• 4:51
  Kierstin: Right. And it makes most sense, right?
• 4:52
  Alane: It makes the most sense. But we all know that not all tribal members live in the community. Not all tribal members are married or involved with other community members who live in the community. And so that is, I assume, Kirsten, when they come to you for help with divorce, child custody. And if you're helping them with that, then you can also help them with an accompanying order of protection in that same process.
• 5:12
  Kierstin: Right. And to your point, we want to pick an area where they're living. So city of Mesa, city of Scottsdale, or some, you know, we have some members that are all the way in Goodyear and in Glendale and so forth. So, we're meeting you where you're at and where it makes most sense because as far as getting it served on the person, usually you're using police officers. And so, it's nice for the police officers that are going to serve it if it's local to their area, right?
• 5:41
  Would Right. So, I mean, you probably know more about the police service stuff, but that's way too complicated. And we're not going to go there because we're just going to stick to this order or excuse me, all the domestic violence stuff that we're talking about today.
• 5:53
  Alane: So I think while we're talking about orders of protection and while we're talking about ways that victims can avail themselves of the services that exist here in the community, I do think it's important to take a step back and talk about what does the landscape look like for domestic violence in indigenous communities. And I think it's important that, you know, we all understand that studies show that more than four in five indigenous women have experienced violence in their lifetime. Lifetime, that statistic is staggering. Like, I remember when I first heard that statistic, and I was blown away by it. And that's not just domestic violence.
• 6:28
  It encompasses all kinds of violence. But I mean, four in five indigenous women, that's shocking.
• 6:33
  Kierstin: Yeah, it is really shocking. And it's unfortunate as well because this is happening every day, right? I mean, I don't know what that do you know what that statistic is as far as every day?
• 6:46
  Alane: Don't know the specifics in terms of how many women are being assaulted every day. But I mean, lot of that has to do with many cases go unreported in the moment, and that's due to lack of trust in law enforcement. It's due to fear of retaliation. It's due to lack of access to justice. I mean, in more rural communities, even getting to a police department or getting to a shelter or an advocacy center could just take hours and hours.
• 7:11
  And by then, we all know that the most dangerous time for a woman or any victim is after they report. And if you report, and then it's going to take hours for someone to get to you, I mean, that's not really a reason that you want to go forward with reporting. And so a lot of the statistics that we have are based on what women self report as part of surveys. They're not necessarily reflected in the numbers for what gets reported to police or what gets prosecuted for lots of reasons. So, Kirsten, while we're talking about orders of protection, it's probably a good time to just talk about the landscape of domestic violence in indigenous communities in general.
• 7:45
  Did you know that more than four in five indigenous women have experienced violence in their lifetime?
• 7:50
  Kierstin: Yeah, I think that that number is shocking.
• 7:52
  Alane: I found it also to be just a staggering number. And I think what we have to remember is that this doesn't reflect the number of cases that are necessarily getting reported in the moment. It doesn't reflect the number of cases that are getting prosecuted. These are numbers that are self reported as part of studies. And so that means that, looking back, women say, Yes, I have experienced violence, or, Yes, I have been a victim of violence even.
• 8:14
  But there are lots of reasons that maybe they're not able to report in the moment. And I think when we talk about domestic violence, we will be doing a disservice if we didn't acknowledge the fact that domestic violence is hard to report. Because the most dangerous time for a woman or for any victim of domestic violence is right after they report. So we know that, you know, the second they call 911 and the police are on the way, the second that the offender has been maybe arrested and booked into DOC, that becomes the most dangerous moment for that person. They worry about retaliation.
• 8:45
  They worry about all kinds of things. And so we have to acknowledge that not every woman is able to report in the moment based on lack of access to justice, based on location, based on distance from law enforcement, based on fear, based on family circumstances that tie her to that person or tie him to that person?
• 9:04
  Kierstin: I think that's to the point that I was talking about earlier with family law cases. A lot of these cases are they have families together, right? They have children together. So, that makes it even more difficult because you're adding another layer of individuals that they want to protect in this process, right?
• 9:22
  Alane: That's right. And certainly they want to protect those people, but also maybe they're dependent on their abuser for a house and for living expenses. Even when you're talking about, you know, here in Salt River, we're fortunate in many ways because services are close by and law enforcement is close by. So maybe we don't have the same barriers that other indigenous communities might have. But you still have to think, even if you're asking for help and you're going to a shelter that's outside the community, that community isn't going to reflect your cultural values.
• 9:52
  It isn't going to reflect your cultural traditions. You're still going to be far from the sacred spaces in Salt River. And failing to acknowledge that is failing to really face a barrier that victims do face when it comes time to report. I should also note, when I'm talking about domestic violence out of habit, I tend to use pronouns like she and her because most frequently the victims that we see are female. But I do need to say that we can't really fully understand the full effects of domestic violence without acknowledging that it happens to men, it happens to women, it happens to straight couples, it happens to gay couples, it happens to lesbian couples, it happens to our two spirit relatives, it happens to everyone.
• 10:32
  And so just because I happen to say she or her, I really mean whoever the victim is. Because certainly we do see more women who are victims, but that does not negate the fact that anyone can be a victim of domestic violence.
• 10:44
  Kierstin: Right. That's a good point. Thanks for sharing that. All right. Well, I have a couple of questions for you just because I don't, as I mentioned, work in this world or your world, I should say.
• 10:57
  I do the civil side. So some of these things are confusing to me and I believe could be confusing to community members as well. Because you mentioned as far as when reporting, that can be the most difficult time for an individual. So, before I get too far ahead of myself, because I have questions with regards to that too, but what are the first steps if someone is going to report? Where do they go?
• 11:26
  What do they do? What resources? Because I know you mentioned resources.
• 11:30
  Alane: That's a great question. The answer will differ based on whether you're currently experiencing that domestic violence and you're currently in danger or whether it has happened to you yesterday or the day before and you now want to report it. So if you're in the moment and you're being assaulted and you're scared, you should call 911. And fortunately, in Salt River, there's a very quick response time. The police will come, and they will help you.
• 11:53
  I do think, though, that one of the main barriers to people calling the police is that they don't know what will happen when the police get there. Right. So we can talk about that for a little bit. The police are going to come, and they're going to separate everyone out, and they're going to try to just make the scene safe. Safe for you, safe for them, safe for fire, if fire has to come to offer any assistance.
• 12:13
  They're going to talk to you. They're going to talk to anyone else who might have seen what happened. They're going to talk to the abuser, and they're going to find out from everyone as best they can what happened. At the end of that, they may decide to arrest someone. They may not.
• 12:26
  But if they do, then that person will go to the Department of Corrections. We'll get the case the next day, and we'll review it to see if it can be charged. As part of that, we will contact the victim.
• 12:34
  Kierstin: Okay. So I'm going stop you just because I heard something, and it makes me kind of worried for an individual. And I know there's so much more to unpack here because I heard a lot of pieces. But when you had said, if they're in the moment, they're going to call 911, the police are going to show up, and there could be someone who's arrested. And maybe there isn't someone who's arrested.
• 12:58
  So, what do I do in that situation if the person is not arrested and I'm not feeling safe? What are my options at that point?
• 13:06
  Alane: So I should say that in most all domestic violence cases, if there's a clear you know, if everyone explains what happened and if there's a clear crime that happened, there's going to be an arrest. Okay. So the most important thing that the person who calls can do is to explain fully what happened. Here's what happened. Here are the injuries I have.
• 13:25
  Just be forthcoming. I know that it's very stressful in that moment, and energies are running high, and emotions are running high. And sometimes it can be difficult to get out all the details, and that's okay. But just do your best to remember what happened and where you're hurt and let the officers know that. The other thing that you can do in that moment is officers are able to give you an emergency order of protection.
• 13:49
  So it's only good for three days. You'll have to go to my office or to your office and get some help getting that order of protection reissued on a permanent basis. But you can get an emergency order of protection to stop the contact for the next three days in that moment, even if it's in the middle of the night.
• 14:04
  Kierstin: And does the officer ask the individual if they want that, or is that just something far as an automatic, I guess? You have to basically request it is what I'm asking?
• 14:16
  Alane: You don't have to request it. The officers are going to ask you if you want it, so you can say no. But a lot of times domestic violence victims especially will say yes. And if they forget, now you know that you can request it from them. But generally speaking, it's part of their procedure that they're going to ask you that for DV cases.
• 14:32
  Kierstin: And then what if I do say no? Because in the moment, I'm like, well, he's going off to jail. I don't need it. So can I come back later on and still get an order of protection?
• 14:41
  Alane: Absolutely. So you can do that by either coming to our office and speaking with our victim advocate or even with one of the prosecutors. We'll help you. We'll take you to the court to fill out the paperwork. If you don't want to deal with us, you can go straight to the court yourself.
• 14:53
  They have a self center, they'll help you navigate that. They can come to your office. They can go to the Family Advocacy Center. So there are lots of avenues to follow-up and say, You know what? I wasn't thinking clearly last night, or, Now I think I need this.
• 15:06
  You can always change your mind. We can always help you with that.
• 15:08
  Kierstin: And I think I heard that HHS also has a victim advocate over there as well. How do they get involved?
• 15:15
  Alane: So, when the police officers respond to a domestic violence case, they automatically send a referral to the HHS domestic violence advocate, and that person will automatically then reach out to the caller the next day. But you can also affirmatively just contact them as well through RPHC. And they offer things like talking circles and other therapeutic means to deal with domestic violence in a therapeutic way other than just individual therapy, which BHS offers, of course, and you can access that. But HHS offers ways to sort of heal and move forward in other ways.
• 15:51
  Kierstin: Okay. So, their service is more for the therapeutic piece, then coming to our offices, getting the actual document Okay. Through the court process or So, I know we talked about if someone is in the moment that they're going to call 911, and I kind of mentioned this earlier as far as if someone, maybe in the moment they do call, or maybe they don't call the police, but at some point down the road, they're like, I really need to do something about what's happening. Can you talk us through that and what that Sure. Looks
• 16:31
  Alane: we talked about, sometimes it's really difficult to report. There are lots of barriers to reporting. People are fearful of what will happen. So, if you're in that boat and you've been a victim of domestic violence, but you didn't call it in in the moment, that doesn't mean that you've lost your chance forever. It doesn't.
• 16:45
  It just means that you're gonna make what's called a delayed report. So to do that, you do much the same thing. You call 911 or you call the SRPD non emergency line. You let them know that you have had something happen to you that you'd like to report it. They will either have you come into the police department or they can meet you where you are.
• 17:01
  Or you can ask to meet at the Family Advocacy Center, and they can accommodate that as well.
• 17:05
  Kierstin: I didn't know that. Sorry, I know I cut you off
• 17:08
  Alane: a lot.
• 17:08
  Kierstin: That's okay. But I didn't know that they could go to the Family Advocacy Center as well, if they choose to. So, that would be something that if they want to have a safer space and they don't want to that conversation in front of certain individuals, then they can go to the family or the police station, I imagine. But family advocacy is much nicer.
• 17:28
  Alane: It's much nicer. Yeah. So, we encourage the use of the Family Advocacy Center for not just domestic violence cases, but, you know, sexual assaults, child abuse cases. And it's because the location itself isn't as fraught, and it's calmer, and it's nicer, and it's not as frenetic with lots of act because, you know, the police station, there's going to be, you know, beepers going off, and there's going to be lots of people in and out, doors shutting and opening. And the FAC is not like that.
• 17:54
  It's much calmer. It's much kinder. It's gentler. You know, they can bring you tea and a snack if you need it. I mean, it's just a much more trauma informed way to make a report like this.
• 18:05
  Okay. Much more supportive. And then the other benefit is that there are trauma therapists on-site. So should you find yourself in need of that after you have spoken to the police, then they're right there on-site and you don't have to then take yourself all the way to RPHC to get that in the moment help.
• 18:21
  Kierstin: Oh, so you wouldn't necessarily have to
• 18:23
  Alane: do an intake it would just be on scene at the time or at the moment you're doing the report? The Family Advocacy Center therapists are there on-site and they can help you with initial services And then they can even do your intake so that you are ready to be assigned to an ongoing behavioral health worker once you're ready for that transition.
• 18:41
  Kierstin: Well, that's super interesting. I didn't know that. So thanks for sharing that. I guess going back to, we talked about in the moment they want to report and, or after the fact they want to report. What happens thereafter?
• 18:58
  Like, so as what for an individual going through this process, what does that look like?
• 19:04
  Alane: It looks a little bit different for everyone, but the common factor is going to be the court process. So, the important thing there and there's a lot of ifs, ands, or buts, and there's a lots of if this, then this, but if not, then this. And so, the important thing for people who are going through this is to just stay in touch with our office. And as part of that, we will let you know when court hearings are. We will let you know about things like plea agreements.
• 19:26
  We'll let you know about things like release conditions. Do you want there to be no contact or no negative contact? Or do you have children that we should include in the no contact orders? And, you know, we'll let you know when you can come to court to make statements and things like that.
• 19:38
  Kierstin: When, okay, so you make the report and it gets sent over, you mentioned that earlier, it gets sent over to your office and you review it and move forward with charging and so forth, when does your office make contact with the victim?
• 19:56
  Alane: So, we're going to start trying to reach out that morning after we get the police report. So, while we're reviewing the police report, while we're watching body cam, we're gonna start trying to contact the victim. It's not always possible. Maybe they're at work. Maybe they get our voicemail and they call us later.
• 20:10
  But we're gonna start trying that day. We're going to try again before the arraignment, which is gonna happen within five or ten days of that arrest. So we're gonna call again. We're gonna We're going to be sending letters as well, trying to get in contact with them to see if there is a plea offer that goes out at arraignment. We want to talk to them about it first.
• 20:27
  We want to talk about release conditions. We want to talk about all those kinds of things.
• 20:30
  Kierstin: And can I just stop you just for clarification for individuals? What is arraignment? What does that mean for people?
• 20:36
  Alane: Arraignment is basically the second court hearing that a person who has been arrested goes to. So the first hearing is called the initial appearance. All that happens there is the court decides whether or not there's probable cause to believe that that person committed a crime. And then they set release conditions. So no contact orders happen there, bail amount happens there.
• 20:56
  But it's a very short hearing. The very next hearing is the arraignment. And what happens there is that the defendant either pleads guilty or not guilty. If we make an offer and they want to accept it, can plead guilty and end the case right there. But more often than not, especially in domestic violence cases, they're going to plead not guilty and they're going to set the case for another hearing.
• 21:14
  So that's why, you know, a while back when I said every case is different, every case really is different because some cases are gonna get set for trial right away. Some cases are gonna get set for a status hearing. Some cases are gonna plead and there's not gonna be another hearing. So that's why it's important that, you know, once you hear from us, once you get that voicemail from us or that letter from us, it really is important to reach out so that we can make sure you're aware of all this as it's happening.
• 21:35
  Kierstin: And when you say someone could plead, does the victim get input on what that plea deal looks like or what's being offered to the defendant?
• 21:46
  Alane: Absolutely. So, one of the primary reasons that we do start trying to reach out pretty much immediately is because we want input in the charging process. We want input in terms of what release conditions that victim wants. And we also, for sure, want input on what that plea offer is going to be because the family is the one who knows much better. Is there an alcohol problem that's contributing to this?
• 22:08
  Are there other issues? Like maybe there's grief in the home or something else. Maybe something else has happened that triggered this behavior. So we want to know all that because we can factor it into what we include in the
• 22:18
  Kierstin: plea offer. And then, you had mentioned as far as that it could settle in a plea agreement and or it goes off to trial. And I guess for me, what I'm hearing sometimes from individuals that are going through this process is that they're very nervous to go through a trial process. What sort of supports do you provide with regards to that piece of it?
• 22:44
  Alane: So I will say that trial is stressful for everyone. I mean, for our office, it's part of our job. So maybe we're not as stressed or maybe we don't show our stress as much, but it still is stressful for everyone. But we also understand that for the victims and witnesses who are coming in to testify, it is probably one of the most stressful experiences of their life. So to that end, we do try to offer a number of services.
• 23:05
  First of all, if you're going to be testifying at a trial, we're going to have you in much earlier. You're going to meet us. You're gonna get to know us a little bit. We can even take you to the courtroom where it'll be happening so that you can see the courtroom and you can actually sit in the chair. I would hope and I would invite those victims and witnesses to have their support people in the room.
• 23:26
  So whoever your network is, your best friend, your mom, your auntie, your sister, whatever, they can be there in the courtroom with you to support. And so we invite people to bring those people with them.
• 23:35
  Kierstin: So anybody can come to court?
• 23:37
  Alane: Court is public. Okay. So anyone can come. The only exception is, you know, if your support person happens to have witnessed the crime, they'll be asked to step out because they'll need to testify as well. Oh, okay.
• 23:50
  But if it's someone who wasn't there and who didn't see anything and who isn't going to be testifying, they can be there. They can watch so that you feel comfortable and confident that day. We also have our victim advocates who are going to walk you through and make sure that you understand what's going to go on, but they also can be there to offer support as well. So, there are lots of ways to get support. And when it comes to the day of trial, we try to be patient.
• 24:15
  We try to go slowly. We try to give time to gain composure, that sort of thing. I mean, it's not a race. So we do try to be respectful of what the victim is feeling and going through in the moment, and we can go as slow as we need to to accommodate feelings and emotions and all that sort of thing.
• 24:30
  Kierstin: You know, I think one of the things that and this is probably like a bigger conversation that we'll probably have, or continue to have about lots of cases that the process can be slow, right?
• 24:41
  I mean, the court process doesn't go fast. I guess, to that point, is there anything that anyone can do to make the process go faster?
• 24:51
  Alane: At the end of the day, not really, just because a lot of the timing is due to the court's own docket. And there are cases that happened before, and those cases will get set on the docket first because it's kind of like a first come, first served situation for the most part. If you're returning our phone calls and you're getting us the information that we ask for and if you're coming in for appointments and coming to court hearings, that's really all that we can ask of victims is to do that. And if we are able to let the court know, look, this victim calls me all the time. She's ready to go.
• 25:23
  We just have to send a subpoena and she's going to be there. You know, that helps. But it doesn't guarantee a quick resolution because there's so many things that go into that.
• 25:30
  Kierstin: And also, I guess one of the things that I would point out, most cases resolve itself, right? I mean, most cases don't go to trial.
• 25:39
  Alane: The vast majority of cases resolve with a plea agreement.
• 25:41
  Kierstin: Right. And so, that could be another way where it would go faster, if you will, right?
• 25:47
  Alane: For sure. Cases that resolve with plea agreements are almost certainly going to resolve faster than cases that have to go to trial. And there's a lot of reasons for that. But, you know, when it comes to making plea offers, we certainly try to take into account, you know, is this a family that is ultimately going to stay together? And how can we ensure that they do that in a healthy way?
• 26:05
  Is that through probation? Is that through specific services? Whatever the case may be. We have to take into account, you know, things like criminal history. But we do understand that by and large, these are families that we're dealing with, and we try to treat them as such.
• 26:20
  We try to insert services. We try to insert supports. It's not always about incarceration, incarceration, incarceration.
• 26:28
  Kierstin: Right. And I guess one of the things that I would, like, lastly ask, I guess, is what are some of the misconceptions do you think the public has about domestic violent cases?
• 26:40
  Alane: I think when you're talking about domestic violence in general, one of the biggest misconceptions or one of the biggest questions that we hear that maybe isn't so informed is, well, why doesn't she just leave? And that's a question that I'm particularly sensitive to because it's not that simple. That's a nuanced question and so much goes into it. Yes, there's fear. Yes, there's, you know, being unsure of what's going to happen.
• 27:05
  But there's also the fact that maybe this person is the father of your children or maybe this person is the mother of your children. Certainly, are factors like housing and income and financial stress that go into it as well. But there's also complicators like there is love. Right. And then there's also complicators like the power and control cycle, which is very real.
• 27:26
  I mean, domestic violence offenders are very good at making victims feel helpless and like they need to stay because there's no other option. We could probably do a whole episode just on this dynamic alone. But I think what I would invite people to do is stop asking that question and realize that if you're not in that position, then you're blessed. And maybe it's not a question that you should be asking of yourself, but a question that is better just left unsaid. It doesn't benefit anyone to ask that.
• 27:53
  Kierstin: Yeah, it's really good advice.
• 27:56
  Alane: So thank you for joining us today. And if you have been moved or helped by this episode, please share it. Conversations like this one can be heavy, but we know that silence is even heavier. And when we speak the truth with care and with recognition of all the issues that go into it, we make space for healing. Remember that if you have a question you'd like for us to answer or a topic you'd like for us to discuss on the podcast, email us at askedandansweredsrpmic nsn dot gov.
• 28:23
  And if your submission is selected, you'll get an Asked and Answered swag bag. Until An
• 28:28
  Kierstin: Asked and Answered swag bag? Wow, I that's pretty
• 28:31
  Alane: think so. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of each other.