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Ep. 5 - What Interior Designers Actually Deal With · Really Renée

• Sam Struck: This last couple weeks, I've just had random moments. We have like a huge install tomorrow going on. This is like a project we've been on for two years that for the love of God, we cannot wait for it to get done. And so, ⁓ for many reasons, but mostly being the energy sucks on this project. Sweet dreamers. Don't care what other people say, we're dreamers. Okay. All right. Well, this is a bonus episode. We weren't planning on doing. We're just doing it on the fly. This is completely unscripted. We're calling it the unhinged shit we have to deal with on a daily basis. ⁓ I feel like we've had a couple weeks. Well, first off, let me introduce you. This is Surop. She is amazing. She has worked with my company now for about nine months. Feels like three. Yeah, it feels like three, three months and three years simultaneously. Like it's life has gone so fast. And then also it just feels like it's been forever. So senior designer on the team, she essentially manages all of the drawings. Like, let's be honest, I don't even have AutoCAD on my computer anymore. Because we're a real buzz now. We talked about this. You were gone last week, and I had field questions, and I was like, gosh shit, I can't. Do this anymore. I don't even have AutoCAD on my computer. I love that for you. ⁓ yeah, I have a Mac. I haven't added it on there. So I was just like floundering in PDFs. And so you come with like a technical background in architecture. You know structure like way more than I do. You worked in an engineering company. So this has like been the kind of like the culmination of moving from just interiors to also now doing like whole house design. Full architectural planning, ⁓ permit sets, things like that. So you are like bringing this extra layer of service to the business in a way that we haven't actually been able to provide before, coupled with you're incredible at the interiors too, and detailing and all of these things. And so we've kind of created this stop too much. We've created this really like good dynamic. And then it was just you and I for like nine months. And then we just hired Mackenzie. And so now it's like, I don't know, we're like in a new phase of just like bringing a new one in. Yes. And ⁓ yeah, it's been it's been so good. All that to say, it really has been like drinking from a fire hose for you since we started. True. You came in and it was just like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. And we just I feel like we've haven't really quite caught our breath. No. So ⁓ yeah. So let's talk about the last couple of weeks in particular. Cause let's do it. It's just been nuts, I feel like. Clients are crazy. We have looked many times if Mercury is in retrograde and when when it's in retrograde. I know very organ, very hippie of us, but ⁓ woo of us. Yes, very woo-woo. ⁓ it was in retrograde. I don't know if it is in retrograde. And it like twenty third of something. Okay, so we're not in retrograde anymore. Clients are still being a little extra with us right now. So ⁓ let's let's talk about some fun moments about what we've been going through. ⁓ you tell me what's been like the highlight of the last couple weeks for you. Like tell me what's been a a pain point. Pin point pinpoints are budget talks. Yes. Darduans. Yeah. ⁓ decision fatigue is big. Yeah. With every single project. Now we've Yes, I think. And I don't know how ki how we can get over it. Yeah. Or can we even do it? I don't know. ⁓ let's see, what is the highlight? I don't know, those are the two things. Yeah, I guess like budget and decision fatigue goes hands on hands. Yeah. You've been really good at ⁓ I I was gone for a few days, which I rarely ever take time off. No, you never threw. And I was happy for it. I know. Great. Great. And I would say you're probably the first designer that I've had on my team that is comfortable stepping into some of the conversations around budget in the way that you are. And so ⁓ in terms of division of labor and like in Studio Renee, I do all the budgetary conversations for the most part. I love that. But while we were gone, while I was gone, the clients are like Freaking out about budgets. Yes. And so they do. ⁓ yeah, you had to step into that a little bit and I felt a little bad, but also like you handled it like a boss, and you like I learned from the boss. Well, it is it is kind of interesting because it is something that we can't avoid. You have to talk about the budgets. That's a big part of it. Otherwise, there's no point of the design. Yeah. ⁓ am I comfortable with talking? Probably not. Do I have to talk? Yes. Do I thrive in chaos? Yes. So it's okay. We we will do it. Yeah. But ⁓ definitely not my favorite part of the job. But do I have to do it? If I need to do it, I'll do it. Please do that way. Well, I'll try not to throw you in a Yeah, I know, but you don't you never do. You never do. You're always you're always there, so which is great. But yeah, budget talks are I think is also very uncomfortable for clients. Yeah. And yes, even because it like biggest mark. Yeah. Still they wanna save money and I get it. But at the end you don't save money. It just like comes back to spiral. We are spiraling and decision fatigue, spiraling. You don't save money. And there's a lot of education there too. And I think it's on us. Yes. Yeah, we had one client this week that We spent a good amount of time a couple of weeks ago pricing out their project to give them like budgetary allowances. Backstory, really amazing client, really amazing general contractor. But ⁓ when we got brought into the project, number one, it was that framing, which is always like really shitty because if you know your back's gonna be up against a wall and you're just like, okay, this is gonna suck because we're so far behind. Yeah. ⁓ And so then it's that framing, this ⁓ this particular general contractor is great. However, there was no semblance of like what the budget was on this project because the budget that had been put together was essentially for a part of a scope and not the entirety of the project. And so when we saw it, ⁓ it was, you know, it was not built out. And then the allowances on the interiors were very low. And so, and this is not uncommon. It does happen. we do we know, in our office we educate general contractors and subs and clients alike on ⁓ what are reasonable allowances for interiors. ⁓ and we start that conversation with like relativity, right? So then like this project is like a million dollar renovation and their interior allowances was only like, you know. Fifty thirty five. Yeah. Yeah. It was like something not a lot. And so it was like what? But also like in s in the degree of relativity, that is crazy. And so we we were like, Okay, this doesn't feel good. We're gonna have to redo this and give allowances. And so we we spent the time to do that while also doing all the material selections. So we were like and doing all the interior detailing. So we were like busting ass to like Do the detailing, get an RCP developed, get the elevations done. Material selection. Material selections. I was doing all the material selections while you were doing all the the drawing and like the detailing. And then at the same time, the general contractor is like continuing to frame and not not follow our No. Like he's literally building the walls while I was drawing them and I'm racing him. Yes. Like if I can catch him up in Yes. It was a joke. So it was it was very stressful. And so we got through that exercise. We helped with the allowances. The allowances we gave were based on two things. One being like ⁓ a fair estimate of what we think is a proper allowance based on the history of us working on projects. And then some of the materials, we actually just knew the price. And so we like put that in there. Like this thing costs this much. And so ⁓ put it in there. And then when we did that, we sat with the client. We essentially added an extra $200,000 to the project. And ⁓ the clients and the general contractor all like we all got on the same page and we were all agreed on that. And then this week we like go into like, ⁓ decisions have to be approved on the job site because the plumber's coming. Yes. And then the client like kind of had a moment of like hesitating and then needing to like come back to, ⁓ wait, I didn't, I thought that. These allowances were just like a budgetary number and that we're still gonna try to be cheaper. And ⁓ that was like a rough, rough thing for us to like totally. Because now we're back in like, okay, so then if we spend the time to reselect, then that's gonna turn it's gonna cost more. It's gonna cost more. It's gonna affect the drawings, it's gonna affect all these things. And so if we like do all of that right now, absolutely it's actually gonna be like way more. expensive than just buying the sink that you guys like you approved and it's a little expensive, but the budget was already approved. And so yes, that's been like a a big hurdle for us this week is just like figuring out how to like calm everyone down. Absolutely. And to just be like, it is what it is and this is what you approve. So spend the money. Yeah, total. And it's part of our job to a little bit guide, educate. Totally. And be the therapists. Yes. And then I think for me, my like bummer of the week is we had another project where it's a newer relationship with said contractor. And ⁓ we like gave an allowance on cabinetry. He came back and was like, Hey, I want you to send the cabinet package to my friend. And I was like, great. No. By the way, we gave the allowance. So We're buying this shit. Like you're not buying it anymore. So I'm not giving those drawings. Yeah. So the like that's part of anyways. Yes. It was just like a shit show. And one of the things that I I think it was the first time in me, like 10 years doing this business, being here, you know, running my company, that I had somebody on my team just be like, No, you can't say it like that. You need to own it. Because I was like, I tend to be somebody that like soft pedals a lot to try to like really develop a good relationship. And so it's almost like, I don't know, when you're dating and then you like you like somebody's like, Do you think I look fat in this dress? And then the partner's like, No, you look great. But we all know that they're not being sincere about that. Yeah. Like you kind of just need the truth up front. And I feel like you like called me on it because I was like soft paddling and was like, well. Can maybe blah blah blah blah blah and you're like, no, tell them that you're buying them. So I did that. Because I don't want to give up on that. Yes, but I just I like I consider myself a pretty direct person. Yes, but you caught me in like ⁓ a softer moment. I don't know, it was like weird. I was like I was like choking on my words, and so I just don't want to give that gray area to give them a space. To go another route because I'm like, let's keep this together. Yeah. Let's go this direction A to B, be faster, efficient. We can still make it cheaper if you stay with us. Trust us. As a designer, I guess trust is another one too. Yes, I agree. I think it was like being direct and then also being like, We got this. Totally. And I think you know, you encouraged me to change the like finishing paragraph and like what to what to write. I did that. We sent it. And what was the reply? Like, great, got it. Thanks. Great. Yes. That was that was great. That was empowering. That was like, okay, yes, we should. Yes. We should apply this. Yeah. So I mean, just to like for everyone out there, even I, as direct and loudmouthed as I can be. Yes, you I have my moments of like still like kind of sitting in this like. I don't know, societal pressure, maybe of like still trying to be nice. And I think it was like really helpful for me to hear you just be like, Sam, what are you doing? Like, don't say that. Take that out. Be direct. I think it was building a relationship with a newer general contractor. Yeah. I like that. Yes. Let's build a good relationship as a good builder. Yeah. Let's make things beautiful and quality and nice. Totally. I love that. So yes. And I know that was the hesitation with you. You're like, how can I say this nicer but still get the job? Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Yes, it was just a moment. Totally. I think other than that, I like this last couple weeks, I've just had random moments. We have like a huge install tomorrow going on. This is like a project we've been on for two years that for the love of God, we cannot wait for it to get done. And so ⁓ for many reasons, but mostly being The energy sucks on this project. So we just can't wait for it to be done. And ⁓ so we're like literally renting the truck, packing up the furniture, taking it tomorrow. So it's like culminating and it's arc and it's done. Yeah. But ⁓ we we should stage the warehouse. Yes, it's just saying it's a good idea. Just saying. ⁓ and so last night I like literally had a full blown like sweat panic attack because I was like, ⁓ shit, we're missing, we're missing furniture that was supposed to be here for this delivery tomorrow. So I'm like frantically trying to call the warehousing company because I look up the orders. It's four separate shipping ⁓ times. They were all from Four Hands. And they have been sitting at a warehouse in Portland for a month. And I was just like, ⁓ no. And so ⁓ I like sent an email to the freight company and I'm like, this is crazy unacceptable. These have to be delivered tomorrow. Like get them on a truck and bring them out here. Tried to call. Of course it was after hours, so nobody answered. And I was like, I need to call at eight o'clock in the morning to confirm that these will be here because we've got a truck we're loading literally today. It's going. And ⁓ yeah. And then I got, you know, I Talk to Kenzie and she was like, Yep, it's on the way. She was like, They were really nice. And it must have been because they saw your emails. Probably. I think that that maybe was it. But like, yeah, it's just been like I feel like it's just been like weird random things. Like we will be have our shit together, order all the samples on a package and then or on like a materials presentation, and then we'll be like missing two or something. It's just weird stuff. Things happen or out of order. You get everything approved. You can't they're they they don't have it anymore. Yes. The materials. Have fun. Have fun. Let's talk about the project for a second that we got paused on because they because they wanted to use their architect's friend, their architect friend. Because it was Can we talk about that for a second? Yes, because it was free. I like free stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It was just like a really fascinating venture for me because we had we we you and I visited this project. We did a walkthrough. I did a proposal. The proposal was out of budget for this client. So we modified the proposal. They weren't all in like start to finish full service on with us up front. They they decided they wanted to do a modified proposal. ⁓ phase one where we were just gonna do the site measure and space planning. Right. And then for like a design fee. And then from there, once they like were able to move forward with the knowing when the construction was going to happen, then they would like bring us back for material selections and whatnot. So we said yes to this project and did the space planning. We did so many options for them. Yes. Let's let's talk about the Hiccups around why we had to do so many. ⁓ wow. You know, reality and Pinterest, let's start that way. Yeah. It's it was like I don't think they were agree as a partner what they want. Yes. And while we were creating the options, simultaneously client was creating other options. Yes. And Yeah, it's fun to create options. I can create all day every day. Yes. But we need like decision fatigue. Yes. What do you want? What is the priority? And scope creep. Yep. We want this. No, actually, we want this. How about this? And then all of a sudden, are we building a new ADU at the backyard? I don't know. Who knows? Yeah. Probably. Yeah. So I think there's many elements in that project that didn't go right. But for me, Decision making as a partner, whoever is living in that house, what is their priority? I think it's very important to come up with that list first. Totally. Yeah, I think that was probably because I told you, like leaving that site visit. I remember like they're misaligned. Yes. ⁓ my God, you're such a therapist. And I was like, Okay, so this goes back to okay, maybe this goes back to this whole point of like. when to soft pedal and when to be direct. Cause it was a new client, new project. Sure. And I think if my intuition up front was like they're not aligned, I probably should have called that out like a little bit more. That's my bad for not just being direct up front and being like do that though. Like it's a hard one to bring it like you guys need to work your shit out. No, I don't know. ⁓ being a couple circuits. Like for sure. Yeah. One partner was like, I'm all in. I want to be here forever. And I like this is I want to make this house beautiful. And the other one was like, We're gonna sell it in three years and yeah, I don't want to invest that much. So and they like were not hearing each other. So then it was just like, ⁓ this is not good. So I it was a learning lesson for me. Self admittedly, I should have called them on that earlier because I do feel like that led and I said, He's hiring us to appease her. You are right, you knew everything in that project. And part of me as a designer, I was like, No, you're not selling this house. I am designing this house. Like it was part of me was like trying to not accept that whatever their reality. Yes. And then everybody was like ignoring the realities. I love that. I think I saw a little bit of the reality, but then I like chose to just ignore it after that. So I was like, hmm. But I because I remember saying like, ⁓ he's hiring us to appease her because she's got so many ideas and she doesn't know what to do with them. And then he doesn't want to deal with it. And so it was just kind of like it's kind of a expensive way to do it. I know, but I just my gut still tells me that's like what the situation was. And so then we did space planning, none of it was ever good enough or right. And then ⁓ She would iterate with us, which is fine, but I think it was beyond like what's typical for a client to do. Totally. And then ⁓ would push us into like ⁓ renovations that we weren't originally considering because the husband had a more conservative view of the project. And so there was just like differences happening. And we ⁓ You know, it ultimately came down to like, ⁓ now we've used all of our design fee time and so we're just gonna ask our friend. That's free too. Totally. I think they should have done a like little office or bathroom remodel. Yeah. To police her if that's that master bedroom. Like, you know, because like it's scope the scope was creeping on us. Yeah. The whole scope was changing and getting bigger. Yeah. And there's no way we can finish this. Like, yeah, if you are the husband. And wanna please your wife, get a small room and get it all done. Yeah, quick turn that. Quick turn that. Yeah. Bathrooms are best for us. Yes. Yes. Primary suite. Give her like retreat space. Yes. Please can we just do that? Yeah, give her a little she shed moment. And whatever. Like a spa bath. Yeah. All those. Not not get a big one. No. Not the whole house remodeling. It's not realistic, but she all that to say, it's been a weird couple weeks. It has been. Mason, where are we at on time? ⁓ my gosh, we've bullshit it for twenty two minutes. Has this been like good? Okay. You get I mean you can leave all this in if you want. I don't care. But ⁓ I'm just so curious because I I like the last couple weeks have just been so wild in terms of like dynamics and stepping into relationships and calling things out and then just having to like I don't know, put our foot down on stuff that I'm like, let's just talk about this for a second. Let's take a minute and just talk about the reality of business, business ownership, interior designers, what we do behind the scenes and all the shit we have to manage. That is not fun. Yeah. And it's not only design. No. It's bigger. It's way bigger than that. Yeah. Yeah. It's more than that. Yes. It's bigger than that. But for sure. Okay. Well, I think that's all I have for the week. But I will end with I do love what we do. I do find it to be really enjoyable and fun, even the dynamics and the hard days. Like I am the crazy person that wakes up in the middle of the night and is like, ⁓ shit, I forgot this, this, and this. But ⁓ I always feel so grateful for like our office, our team. I think that it's really special to get to like step into people's lives and solve these problems and like. I don't know, step into the fire. I'm like you, where I'm like, I do well under pressure. Like we kind of we don't love it, but we also, yes, twin twin work flame for sure. ⁓ we we don't ask for it, but when we're in it, it just kind of like in a wrong way feels so good to just be like covering. ⁓ yeah. It is. You just like grabbing the bowl by the horns and and just doing it. And so, And then when you've got clients that do respect it, it's like very, very rewarding. It's very rewarding. I think that's the best part of this. Yeah. Like I love creating. Yeah. I love working with a good team. I love working with a woman. I love our office. Yes. ⁓ good clients. And when they trust you, they trust your vision and what comes out is and then they appreciate you. Yep. Not disappoint. ⁓ That it feels so good. It's like nothing better than that at that point. Like, you know, we all make money, it doesn't matter. But like that part is the highlight, which is great. Love it. Okay. Well, that's all I got for this week. Thanks for sitting with me on this week's edition of Unhinged Bullshit We had to deal with. So if you've had a shitty week or you've had a bad experience with a client, let us know in the comments or send me a DM. We dream we don't care. We're living like this could be a final day. We're dreamers.