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110: From Partying to Peak Performance w/ Clifford Stephan · Harder Than Life

• 0:07
  I'm Kelly Siegel, and this is Harder Than Life, a podcast about self-love, self-awareness, business, and health. We tell outrageous stories and boil everything down to simple, practical advice you can start using today. Let's get living.
• 0:23
  Woo-hoo. Welcome back to the Heart of the Life podcast. Today, I'm excited to introduce Clifford Stephan. Is it Stephan or Stephen? I didn't even ask you. I'm sorry. Stephan. Stephan. I had it right. Founder of Booze Vacation, a wellness company designed to help high-performing individuals level up by taking a break from alcohol.
• 0:45
  Clifford's journey, like mine, resonates deeply as we both believe in the massive benefits that come from living an alcohol-free life. He has turned his personal experience into a movement, helping others unlock their potential by making conscious choices about their health. In addition to Boo's Vacation, Clifford is a seasoned consultant, having worked with major companies like Google and LinkedIn. We've all heard of them.
• 1:10
  Let's dive into the story of the transformation of powerful insights he has to share. Welcome, my man, Clifford. How are you today? I'm great, Kelly. Thanks so much for having me on. I appreciate it. Dude, I did the show prep last week and immediately wanted to do this interview. It was...
• 1:28
  the team is like, you got to meet this guy. He's awesome. And I am looking forward to today and having a little fun because when I first looked at this, I'm like booze vacation. Yeah, this sounds like fun. So my audience knows me. They know my SPAC story is the, you know, it used to be a, listen, booze vacation, the, the, the right way. Well,
• 1:49
  was my thing, man. I used to party it up with the best of them. And I just like to create awareness. I bring out a lot of people that talk about not drinking, drinking less. Low and no is getting in vogue now. So I've never heard anything about this booze vacation. So why don't you tell us about it?
• 2:10
  Yeah, definitely kind of a COVID passion project, scratching my own itch. Me and my buddies started drinking freshman year in high school and yeah, kind of went to college, went into corporate America and it kind of followed us along, you know, really embedded in our identity and our operating system for just fun friends, events, a reward system, you know, pretty typical.
• 2:32
  And yeah, you know, age and wear and tear and tolerance is, you know, a pretty tricky equation to figure out. I had a degree in nutritional science. I was super sporty. I played water polo, soccer, tennis, surfed. So I kind of just thought I could, you know, kind of outclass my physiology and continue to drink until I was 100 and not have any issues.
• 2:55
  reluctantly kind of threw in the towel by my mid forties after 30 plus years of drinking socially and having CPAP, you know, having sleep apnea, CPAP machines, bad blood work, belly fat, kind of lots of ups and downs, mostly downs during the work week and ups during the weekend. And yeah, just kind of choppy, poor performance and, um,
• 3:19
  And kind of wasn't looking to get smarter with my drinking, but I got inspired by a four hour audible book, Alcohol Lied to Me. It's really it's a broadcaster from from Europe. It's super entertaining and kind of had a really compelling story. So I kind of listened to it and I was like, oh, crap, I need to take a real break. Me and my buddies.
• 3:37
  Addressed our drinking like a lot of guys do cutting back and taking off dry January or, you know, sober October, but it never really worked. And we'd kind of be right back at it by Super Bowl Sunday or whatever. And so it was a pretty vexing, you know, tricky substance to deal with. And so I went up and getting me inspired to take a one year break. And it was super transformational because I had done all of the.
• 4:02
  you know, garden variety kind of health and wellness protocols and diets and breath work and meditation and all that. And fortunately, it works great, but it was out of sequence. So basically, I'll call it definitely the master key that you have to kind of put on the shelf for that stuff to work, especially as you're dealing with age and wear and tear, which a lot of our peers that have achieved levels of success, you know, they're
• 4:26
  they're, they're, they're going to have to lean into working hard and that kind of sometimes can erode your diet and lifestyle. And, and as you're aging, it's, it's a pretty predictive model. So I, you know, I had this really profound experience. I was super pumped on it and had all these buddies that knew, like trusted me. And I was like, Hey, you guys, you got to check out this four hour audible book. It's pretty compelling. It's pretty entertaining. It's quick. And,
• 4:49
  And I couldn't even get my buddies to listen to it. They're like, no, that's cool, man. I wasn't even telling them to not drink. I was just saying, just give this a listen. And I couldn't even have that conversation. And I just got so damn frustrated. I'm like, this is not going to end well. Like I said, I kind of know my body. I have a degree in nutrition. I kind of knew where this was headed. And I knew a lot of my buddies were headed for a fall.
• 5:12
  Going out in a predictive whimper of a lot of, you know, pre-disease states becoming more chronic disease states and a lot less fun, a lot less, you know, a lot more BS and drama. And so I'm like, hey, somebody's got to be the asshole here. Asshole here is talking about kind of the negative sides of alcohol as well. And so I kind of took that on.
• 5:31
  And yeah, just kind of been grooving on my own kind of, you know, essentially I was able to kind of figure out this crazy substance in my crazy head and realize that there's, I'm not the only crazy one out there. There's a lot of guys that kind of look and feel like I do. And, you know, ultimately,
• 5:47
  It's funny. Our solution was kind of corroborated later by Andrew Huberman when he had his really compelling podcast on alcohol, how it can take easily three to six months to kind of just get your brain back in order and, you know, rewired and all that. And obviously guys that have been drinking for decades, they need to have, you know, they need to get good at, you know.
• 6:06
  at being social and, and, and being able to relax without it. And that takes a lot of at bats and a lot of being social. And it's really about playing offense, not defense. These short breaks are defensive. You're on your heels. You don't know what to say. You don't know what to do. And alcohol is so good at dysregulating all these key systems of your health, your sleep, your diet, your fitness, your hormones, you know, it's just, it's impossible to ever get a handle on your health and make any inroads when, with continued alcohol use. So yeah,
• 6:34
  We've really just kind of tried to, you know, not point fingers or preach, but, you know, kind of just guy talk, talk some shit, you know, kind of straight talk around health and wellness. And ultimately, if you want what the beer commercial promises, if you want to look good, feel good, screw good, have good relationships, be able to take some adventures and enjoy life, you really need to learn how to do it.
• 6:58
  and live without it for a bit. And then guys, after their break, they can, they can go back and it's kind of a choose your own adventure. Again, it's kind of a, it's, it's a weird, it's a weird offer in a way because we're not targeting alcoholics. We're not targeting, you know, guys that guys that we're targeting, aren't necessarily looking for sobriety, but you know, and a lot of them are on nicotine and weed and there's other, other pieces to it, but it's really about figuring out the alcohol piece to really kind of
• 7:26
  really get some transformation, really restore your health while you still can. And so, yeah, I'm kind of droning on here now, but it's a it's kind of a long, boring story. And and when I took my one year break, I coined it as, hey, I'm on a booze. Now I'm not drinking right now. I'm on a booze vacation. It kind of made my buddies laugh and kind of got me off my off my back and kind of made a joke out of it. And that's kind of the origin story of it.
• 7:47
  That makes me, it makes me think of like booze cruise. So the first thing I think of is how is this going to be not about alcohol? It's where my, my old drinking party mind goes to. But so I, in the intro, I said that you work with, you know, Google, LinkedIn. I look here, here's Kaiser Permanente, easy for me to say, Motorola Mobility.
• 8:08
  So there's some massive companies hiring you to work with their people to say, hey, let's examine our relationship with alcohol. Oh, let me let me just. So I had a consulting business in compensation. So it's a facet of human resources.
• 8:23
  I was in the Bay area. So I was for technology companies. I was consulting with companies and telling them how to pay and compensate their employees. So I had this consulting business for about 20 years. It was an HR. And then I've, I've actually, I'm, I'm now full-time booze vacation after kind of building this monstrosity and my passion. So it was, it was kind of people oriented and reward oriented, but it wasn't about the alcohol because we were oftentimes drinking it.
• 8:49
  My question was going to be how often did it come back to like, whoa, the question was going to be how did that lead into one lead into the other, which you just kind of said you guys were drinking and having a good time. That was the camaraderie. And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, what could we do without this? So talk a little bit about what when somebody goes to a booze vacation for a year.
• 9:13
  how often do they pick it back up in any capacity, let alone if it's just small amounts, what are you seeing in that? Yeah, that's a great question. And it's funny. And again, a lot of this, a lot of the, there's a lot of breadcrumbs and Andrew Huberman's podcast, but you know, obviously me and my buddies started pretty early, you know, when you're starting, you know, in freshman, freshman year, sophomore year of high school, you're more presupposed to more heavier alcohol use. And so yeah,
• 9:39
  I think that kind of, you know, I kind of see it. There's kind of two different tracks. There's kind of the brain and the body. And so I think guys that maybe start a little bit later, they can take a three or six month break and they can be like, Hey, this is awesome. I'm going to keep rocking this, this vacation. And I think they, they pick it up. Their brain's not maybe as polluted when they didn't start as early. And, um, and so I think that, you know, but if you can, if you can solve it with your brain or your body, then I think you really get
• 10:04
  kind of a really good outlook and epiphany there for myself since I did start earlier. Like I said, I think my brain was a little pretty presupposed to it. And so I took a year break and then I went back to kind of, you know, a drink or two on the weekend and wasn't really looking to, you know.
• 10:20
  did it a lot less and for different reasons. And then over maybe six, eight months, I started having a couple nights where I was having three drinks. I'm like, I don't like where this is headed. So I took another three month break and then I was about to turn 50. So I took a six month break. So kind of just used it as a tool in my tool belt to whenever I wanted to look and feel my best, or if I had, you know, I was going to surf 10 foot waves for my 50th birthday in Nicaragua and whenever I wanted to kind of look and feel my best. And so I would kind of experimented with it, but ultimately,
• 10:48
  the more vacations you take, the longer the breaks, the less you drink is essentially what it boils down to. But, um, in, I think people that drink a little bit heavier, they probably, they definitely need like those six months to a year. And they, and then they kind of need to, you know, oftentimes they kind of need to experiment and kind of have a few drinks and be like, Oh man, I feel like crap like this. And this is, I didn't really get much out of that. So it's kind of like, essentially when you're taking these long breaks, um,
• 11:14
  Alcohol works really well when you're regularly drinking it because it's kind of regularly lowering your state and then and then gaming that state. But when you stop, when you stop drinking, you learn how to have fun without it. And then you start you start drinking again. You have to turn back on that machinery. And that is kind of like a weird dance because you're like, whoa, I didn't get much out of that. I didn't feel that great. What the hell am I doing? You know, so you kind of get these, you know, you get a little bit of perspective that you don't get when you're continually drinking.
• 11:42
  But, you know, probably about 25, 30 percent of the guys continue to extend their vacation. But it's not really about, you know, telling guys what to do past that. But we just want guys to know it's a good idea. It's not that hard. And it's a really it's a really big opportunity for a land grab to really improve these core systems of your health. And where a lot of guys are picking up bad blood work and prescriptions and and give them, you know, their toys in their garage or picking up dust. We're kind of getting after it and and really kind of reimagining things.
• 12:12
  So you guys can head over to boozevacation.com, learn more. We're going to talk about it in depth. But I want to ask Clifford, you, a personal question. I started pretty early on, too, when I was a freshman. And really early, but predominantly when I was doing a lot was freshman in high school. Where did you grow up?
• 12:31
  Oh, I grew up in Sunnyvale, Silicon Valley. So yeah, kind of, it was an interesting place to be. But yeah, it was awesome. And we were Gen X. So, you know, you kind of see on some of these socials and stuff like that. I think we had it pretty good. There was definitely not like a ton of oversight, but you know, there's some hard lessons to be learned. But yeah, we had some crazy misadventures and yeah, good group of guys I played a lot of sports with. And yeah, we had a lot of fun. But yeah, it was neat.
• 12:59
  Sorry. What led it to get out of alignment? Just time, time and tolerance and age. So, you know, where'd you go to college? Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo. So I'm kind of happy. California. How'd you not get into the weed?
• 13:13
  Oh, I didn't say that I didn't, but yeah, I was a triathlete at times. But yeah, no, I did. But no, yeah, there was a little bit of weed as well. But yeah, well, and we were playing water polo. So my buddies that played water polo, some of them were NCAA champions, but you know how it is. It's kind of like the more the guys kick the shit out of themselves, like on the pitch, the more they have to like party, you know, and so.
• 13:38
  That was definitely a circle I was running with. But no, it was just wherever we went. It was kind of how we rolled. When we went to a game, after we played our game, if we went to a concert, if we went to a kickout, it was kind of just always there. And you know how it rolls. It's a little bit of a sticky substance, and it's kind of everywhere. You're finding it at work. You're finding it at home. You're finding it on travel. So yeah, it starts over time. Yeah, you kind of start to feel that. So the people can...
• 14:07
  Okay, the people can resonate with why people drink. So what was going on at home that this was not nipped in the bud? So I'll give you mine for instance. So I literally, my parents were both alcoholics. So they drank like fish and that's what all my friends, I grew up off of 8 Mile in Warren, the 8 Mile that Eminem made famous in his movie. That's what you did. That's what's camaraderie was drinking, drugs,
• 14:34
  fighting betrayal. It was insanity. So literally we just picked right up where our parents left off and there was no love. There was no safety. Your safety was when your friends. So I picked that fricking badge of honor up and drank for 30 years and just, and literally wasted so much time and money, but it was fun. What was your reason that the people will identify with this? You know, I think it's just the typical, you know, uh,
• 15:05
  you know, you're, you're a teenager, you're, you're, you know, you're kind of rebelling or whatever it is, but it wasn't even that for me, you know, we played, we played sports. We put, you know, a lot of my water polo buddies, we worked out super hard and some of them had older brothers and it was more social. We were, yeah, we were kind of in a nice, nice community. So it was more social, more, you know, attempting to talk with, talk with girls before dating apps, you know, kind of more of the, the typical kind of just social aspect to it.
• 15:33
  So, um, yeah, it wasn't anything that all that nefarious. And then it went, came to my parents. It's like, you know, I had an older sister. I can kind of get into my house without my parents, like smell my breath before I got in. So it's not like I didn't get caught here or there, but you know, generally speaking, again, it was different generation. Like now they're, you know, the helicopter parents and stuff like that. So, but, but back in the day it was a little, you know, they were kind of just doing their own thing and, um,
• 15:58
  Um, it's not like they were heavy drinkers or anything like that, but it was, it was more just a social aspect of it. And yeah. And like you said, we had a hell of a time and, and yeah, when you're, you know, you're a stupid high schooler, you know, don't know what the hell's going on and lacking confidence. It can definitely help help you talk with chicks and, and whatever kind of be cool.
• 16:18
  I was trying, well, you said the book Alcohol Lied to Me. That's the first I've ever heard that one. I got unbottled potential. I had Amanda Kudan. My book was The Naked Mind from Annie Grace. I had to look it up. This is when I was looking at my phone. Someone handed me that book, and I was like, you know, I think I'm done. And I just did. So, you know, alcohol, it's fun until it isn't. And at the end of the day, I was trying to think this last week, what's the best day of my life?
• 16:48
  And then I start thinking about it, and I immediately eliminate all days that I drank. And I got to tell you, I had a blast drinking. And it was the collateral damage that would come with it. So that's why it drew me to you. This booze vacation, whether you think you have an issue or not,
• 17:04
  This is well worth a try because I'm telling you right now, the person I've become since I decided to quit, it has – and it's funny. I don't even think I decided to quit. I just quit because like you said, it got in my mind and my body. I'm like, woo, this is how good it feels every single day. I used to laugh at the Frank Sinatra said, I feel sad for people that don't drink because they wake up.
• 17:26
  And that's the best they're going to feel all day. And I start thinking, wow, I wake up and I feel fantastic. So thanks, Frank. Having said that, you mentioned even small amounts of alcohol can have a cumulative effect on your health. Our health, basically. Can you explain how alcohol compounds to erode our diet, lifestyle, and happiness? That's the big one for me. Happiness. It stole my happiness over time.
• 17:52
  Yeah. And it sounds like Frank was drinking regularly. So that was definitely the best he was going to feel because it is kind of lowering these states. And I think it's a great, great question. And I think that's kind of the real big problem with alcohol in our society is, is people don't ever put it down long enough to like, see what they're feeling like. And I I'd say my typical peer is probably stuck at about, you know, dragging ass stuck in about 60% and maybe they take a month off or so and they can get to maybe 75%, but they don't know what a hundred percent feels like. And so yeah,
• 18:22
  they really wind up asking the wrong person like, Hey, should I continue to drink? Sure. You know, I'm kind of at a lowered state. It makes me feel good. It's a consistent reward system, but wait, I want to stop you right there. That was my biggest thing. Cause the people you hang out with,
• 18:37
  you know, misery loves company. And of course, if you're hanging around a bunch of drinkers, they're going to say, okay. And you're looking around and you're seeing everybody do it. And everybody, for me, all my friends were high achievers. And I'm talking, there was some billionaires in our group and they drank every day. So you thought there's nothing wrong with this. So until you just, if you're asking the question and I know you'll get into this, but if you're asking the question, should I be drinking or should I not be drinking? You probably should not be.
• 19:07
  But keep going on those benefits. Yeah, I totally hear you. When I look back at my youth and early career, it's like, yeah, there's always the most popular kids and the guys that are crushing it in sales. And then of course there's other people on the other end of the spectrum, but you look up to these people like, hey, they're parting their asses off. Like that's what I want to do, type of thing. So there's always exceptions, but.
• 19:30
  Yeah, that shit gets harder to pull off as you get in your 40s and 50s and beyond. But, you know, what the reality is when you when you find out the science, it's pretty scary. You know, probably three servings of alcohol a week on average. You know, if you're just doing that, you're going to shrink your prefrontal cortex. You're going to rewire your neural circuitry for higher baseline stress, higher anxiety, a lowered mood. And a real big one is lack of discipline and impulse control. So it's eroding your brain.
• 19:59
  your, your discipline and impulse control. So there's all these micro decisions around, you know, and more processed food, getting off your schedule, having one more drink. So there's all these micro decisions that are really, what's going to really tank your health. Obviously it's terrible for testosterone. So I'm kind of staying in my lane and, and, and talking to the boys here, but it's terrible for your testosterone directly and indirectly. It directly converts testosterone into estrogen and,
• 20:27
  And then good quality restorative. And so, and again, three servings of alcohol that could be an easily be in one cocktail, like one stiff cocktail. Three. I was going to ask you that. Three servings, three shots. Yeah.
• 20:39
  Yeah. Yeah. And then like, you know, you get in, my buddies are all into these like, you know, double IPAs and, and all these, you know, all these different drinks. So yeah, like probably it's easily, you know, a big glass of a big pour of wine. So it could, you know, the average drink is probably pushing closer to two servings. So it's nearly impossible to get under that, you know, level of three, three servings per week. And then again, that's, that's going to increase your baseline stress. It's going to, it's going to erode your discipline and,
• 21:06
  including your, and there's also the tolerance factor. So, you know, you're kind of in these negative States and you're going to need a little bit more and a little bit more to reach those levels of, you know, kind of enjoyment. And so, yeah, it's really nefarious. And then when you come to sleep, like don't even get me started on sleep. It's a, it's a total nightmare. We have a really, we have a really killer report on this. It's like, it's really long and involved, but sleep is so critically important to so many systems in your body, your hormonal system, you know,
• 21:33
  your brain, it's really when your brain kind of reboots and recharges and kind of, it's really good for, it's really important for, you know, mental, your mental clarity and performance and emotional resilience and memory recall. And so, you know, you're just never at your best. And even, you know, like, like I said, like, so three servings of alcohol, 39% less sleep.
• 21:58
  So and like let me jump in on the sleep because that's what literally made me take my next level to of drinking. Like I drank good on the weekends, had fun, you know, Friday, Saturdays, Thursday, Friday, Saturdays. And then I was having trouble falling or staying asleep. So my uncle, yes, my uncle, it's like, hey, just go out and take a shot of whiskey.
• 22:22
  And so one shot became two and I fell asleep. But man, it wasn't good restorative sleep. But that turned me into the, hey, let's drink every single night. And then you talk about the discipline. That's the funniest one. I think out of all the alcohol people I've talked to, not a single person has really brought about the discipline and the, what did you term it? It was the impulse control. The impulse.
• 22:43
  The impulse control. Honestly, I'm going to steal that, Clifford, because impulse control is what it is. Because the second alcohol hit my lips, I was invincible. So, like, there was nothing I wouldn't do. And the funny thing is, that's how I am now.
• 23:02
  But without alcohol. So the fun guy that you are, a fun girl that you are without alcohol, or with alcohol, you can be that without. So I just impulse control. I would do the dumbest things, and I'd wake up in the morning. I'm like, why did I do that? It was funny in the moment, but it's not funny long term. So impulse control. I'm going to actually rewrite that down. And then let's talk about...
• 23:28
  Tell me about the booze vacation and how, if they sign up with you, how you walk through, like what happens? I sign up, walk me through that. Yeah. So, and again, it's, it's an interesting offer because again, most of my peers that this is targeted for, they don't have a problem. They have a great profession. They have a beautiful family. They went to college. They're not like some, you know, passed out on a park bench type deal.
• 23:53
  And they have a lot of fun with it. So it's really there's a lot of it requires a lot of education and awareness to kind of just make sense of it all and why they want to do it and why they want to do it is because this is a critical need. So most of my most of my peers are going to have pre-disease symptoms by their 30s. They're going to belly fat, high blood pressure, some bad blood work. And then.
• 24:16
  You continue to get old, stack wear and tear, have these other kind of diet and lifestyle stuff that's being actively eroded by alcohol and you're continuing to drink alcohol.
• 24:24
  it can precipitate more chronic disease states as early as your 40s and 50s, cardiac events, arrhythmias, cancers, pre-diabetes. Fast forward to working with you. Everybody, they're listening to this. They listen to me. My audience knows about what the negative effect is for drinking. Talk to me about, we signed up. They're listening to this. They're like, this sounds cool. They go to the website. Talk about what makes the booze vacation better.
• 24:49
  Sure. So guys can, guys can hop on a resources page if they need to kind of get that education. Cause most guys, like I said, they'll, they'll be ready. Oh yeah, that sounds good. I want to, but if they don't really sort it out in their brain and really kind of start connecting the dots, it's they're, they're going to want to, they're going to like to, but they're not going to need to and have to. And so we really need to get them to that need to have to, and then it's kind of, then it's like, you'll just figure it out. But there's a lot of, you know, like, you know,
• 25:14
  Shit happens, it's everywhere, and so it's easy to erode. So it's really getting them good education around what they're doing and why, how it's not that difficult. And then they could sign up for a free vacation. They get a playbook, they get weekly check-ins and guidance and a lot of good materials. Again, just to continue to increase the resolve, how to get great sleep, how to increase your activity levels, how we can get these guys as best results as quickly as possible, so they start getting that forward momentum.
• 25:44
  and getting stoked on it and making it social and fun. And so, and then they can also work with me for individual coaching. So a lot of guys, a lot of executives kind of have more, more money than time. And, and yeah, they're kind of on the red line and they're, they're traveling and they're doing all this stuff. So we'll provide individual coaching to really dial on their diets and their exercise. And their sleep is a big one because most guys sleep pretty poorly, especially with regular alcohol use. So yeah,
• 26:07
  How do you do it? You're glossing over the top. I want the nitty-gritty because I've been there and I've done that. And I just – I want them to know that this is not – it's not easy but it's not hard. And the benefits are phenomenal. That's what you're talking about. But what – like, again, let's say I go, hey, I'm signing up right now for the help with the booze vacations. What happens next? And first of all, how much is just the basic –
• 26:34
  Package. It's free. It's free. So you can take a booze vacation for free. You can get the playbook, which will have a ton of guides. We have videos. We have checklists, healthy habit checklists. We have all kinds of materials. That's available on the website, boozevacations.com. Yes. And then how far does that take me? Yeah.
• 26:57
  Meaning, you know, again, and then even including a 15 minute free consultation call. But, you know, it's really going to depend on on the dude. But but yeah, and and it is you really make your money by transforming these healthy habits that have been dysregulated and eroded by alcohol. So, yeah, we have a lot of that content. But yeah, that's why a lot of guys try to work with me directly, because it can be a little trickly to implement because everybody has their own.
• 27:22
  kind of starting point in their own habits and their own, you know, kind of pre can, you know, preexisting conditions. So it's kind of tailored, but in general, we're going to be working on, you know, eating protein, rich meals, moving your body, you know,
• 27:37
  You know, kind of sleep schedules, not a road, you know, not having caffeine at two o'clock in the afternoon, not having, you know, a big sugar bomb right before you go to bed, stress reduction methods, you know, walking, cleaning up the diet, you know, things like that.
• 27:54
  So head over to boozevacation.com. You can get all these free resources to get you started. And if you get a little stuck and you got more questions, you have the 15-minute call with Clifford. Let's just say I do that 15-minute call and we say, hey, I need a little more resources. I need a one-on-one. What does that look like?
• 28:12
  Um, again, it's meeting guys where they're at. So I would say, I don't want to gloss over the fact that a lot of guys, even though they're ready, they're, they're not a hundred percent ready. And so I think it's really kind of just kind of helping them future cast where they're headed. So if they have some belly fat, if they're already having some blood pressure medicine and, and, you know, they're traveling, you know, we, we kind of really just need to make this clear that this is super important. This is super timely, you know, shit could hit the fan at any
• 28:42
  and having to do this. And then the neat, you know, the, the doing it isn't, isn't that tricky, honestly, beyond, beyond just, you know, when you're regularly drinking, it really just embedded embeds itself in your, in your brain and your operating system. So guys that really just want to talk with somebody that's been there, done that because it's such a foreign concept. None of their buddies are doing it.
• 29:03
  And so they just want to know that they're not, it's not a stupid idea. And then once you kind of get them clear, then they, you know, they're, they're, you know, get, so they can get their sea legs. Then they can really start rocking their break and playing offense. I'm going to pressure you on this and I'm sorry because I'm looking for a specific answer because I want people to understand exactly. Cause I love what you're doing and I love what you're offering. So I'm, I'm signing up with you and I want one-on-one help and assistance. And we've, we've already established that.
• 29:32
  I want this. Let's go. Clifford, how much is it to sign up? And what do I get? Because that's what we're trying to, I'm trying to get my listeners to have. This is another tool in the harder than life listeners toolboxes. They got, they've had several people that we've interviewed before, but this one is very unique and I want them to know about it. And we're, we're glossing over it. And I'm trying to put you on the spot. I apologize, but I really want to know because it's,
• 29:59
  I remember when I was in this situation, and I was scared, and I was nervous, but I was at the point where I freaking knew I wanted to change, and I didn't know you existed. So that's all I'm trying to get to. And remember, I'm gonna put this disclaimer out here. If you can't get through the day without drinking, AA is probably a better fit for you. There are other resources. You can message me at any time, and I'll refer you to where you gotta go.
• 30:27
  But this is for the successful guy who just has questions, who's asking questions. And then once we get to the point where you're like, yeah, I want to do this. Boom. Now, Clifford, go. Tell me what I'm doing. Yeah. And you're absolutely right. It's not for alcoholics or problem drinkers, but-
• 30:44
  you know, like I said, I think it's kind of five pieces. So it's, it's kind of diving in and seeing where guys are at. We're going to want them to get blood work and kind of know their blood pressure and know where they're, they're starting. So, cause again, we're going to want to really, this is a very simple and effective health protocol strategy. So the key levers of health are your sleep, your diet, your fitness, your, your brain. And so alcohol is actively eroding all of these and it's creating, it's perpetuating all these negative habits. And so the,
• 31:12
  We need to get them very secure on what they're doing and why. So they're ready. We need to set a date. Sometimes we need to wind guys down. They're having four drinks. We need to get them down to two drinks before they're comfortable. Maybe they have an event. And so we plan that out. They know what to say. They know good non-alcoholic beers they could have. We kind of start, depending upon where guys are at, we maybe switch them from...
• 31:34
  cigarettes to, to Nicorette, you know, to gum and stuff like that. So we kind of try to just basically kind of customize it for them. We start working on sleep schedules. We start working on meal plans. We start working on movement. We get the before and after pictures. We address questions as, as needed, whether they have a work event, what to say, how to say it. So they're just kind of prepared. So it's a lot of customized advice in these specific areas. So it's really good. What's that?
• 32:03
  Yeah, I know. I quit, dude. I'm scratching my own itch. Trust me. Like I was, I was, you know, and I got, you know, like I said, I wasn't drinking that heavily, but just over time, it really wore me down. The poor sleep, the stress. Like I wasn't a pretty, I want to be in a pretty low place. And yeah, there was, there was nothing, nothing out there for me. And so I'm really scratching my own itch. And not only are we addressing the alcohol, but it's really about restoring your health during this limited window. And so really giving guys a longer runway. Yeah.
• 32:31
  more opportunity for flexibility, however they want to live it. And, and figuring out how to learn life without it, because a lot of guys will like looking, feeling and screwing better. And, and, you know, and, you know, it's not, you don't, you can't have everything, but that's a good place to start, you know, for, for figuring out how to have fun. So again, I, how much does working with you one-on-one cost?
• 32:51
  Anywhere from $1,500 to $2,500 a month, depending upon how much individual coaching and needs they have. Guys, I'll personally vouch for that. You'll make that back of not drinking. The alcohol that you spend money on, because if you're a successful guy, you're probably drinking something nice. And it's $20, $25 a freaking glass. And you're spending that in a month on alcohol anyways. You'll make five times the amount of that if you just give it a shot. Okay.
• 33:20
  I, yeah, this is a, this is a, this is a million dollar offer because again, you get cancer, you get, you get, you know, cardiac event, you get erectile dysfunction. Like any dude would happily pay a hundred K to not have that, you know, embarrassing thing. And then it's, it's, it's your performance. It's your look and feel it's your quality of life. I mean, you could be making a ton of cash and look and feel like shit and be stressed and have bad relationships and it's a limited time only. So if you don't figure this out,
• 33:47
  you know, you're going to go out in a whimper. And even if you didn't technically have a problem, and even if you live in that nice zip code, it's, there's, there's no safety in numbers here. So this is a critically important need. It can easily add 10 to 15 quality years of life of life. So it's a really important skill to have. And if you don't ever learn how to have to figure it out, you know, it's pretty, it's not about, it's not about if, but when it is going to go down and it's not going to be pretty and it's nothing you want. And so it's, it's,
• 34:14
  It's a million dollar offer plus, in my opinion. I've always said this on every podcast. You can always go back. It was so freaking great. You can always go back to drinking. He's not telling you stop forever. It's like, hey, let's work on this together. For me, Clifford, I struggled mightily. The reason why I drank was because I didn't feel like I was enough. Really, I wanted to fit in.
• 34:37
  And I was looking for love in all the wrong places. So I would imagine since you keep talking about the health benefits, the biggest health benefit was my mindfulness. So what do you have? What do you work on with? You know, first of all, it was...
• 34:54
  not hanging out with the same people, being comfortable being alone a lot, having Jomo, the joy of missing out. Those were some of the things that I had no clue. And then the flood of emotions that I had because I didn't have any crutch or mask to deal with. What in your one-on-one program do you do? What do you have for a guy like me that...
• 35:20
  the emotion, it's all, for me, it was all between my ears. It was the six inches between my ears. It was everything. Yeah, and it's, you know, honestly, it's funny because like I was in compensation and I would always consult my buddies on, you know, jobs and careers and what paid the best and how to advocate for themselves. But it's kind of similar methodology. It's like at the end of the day, you're in the Kelly business. You're not in the, whatever company you have. I know you have your own company, but,
• 35:47
  You know, so you need to self-advocate and you need to think of yourself. And so I think it's easy to be like, you know, again, the program of regularly drinking, like your your mind does not want to stop drinking. And so you're going to tell yourself, hey, you're not going to have my friends. I'm not going to have anything to do. It's going to be boring. I'm not going to be my fun wild side anymore. But really, it's the opposite. If you want to be that guy in high school or college, it's, you know.
• 36:11
  kind of kicking ass and causing trouble and having fun and being active, then you need to take care of your health and you need to learn how to have fun without it. Or you're going to be like, you're going to be that sad, sad guy that's, you know, berserking out and, and yeah, forgot to take his medication and falling down and, and getting into, you know, serious, you know, kind of legal problems. So, you know, you kind of have to, you're going to have to pick and choose. And I hate to say the term cause it's the last thing I ever wanted to hear, but yeah, you have to have some education and some awareness and you have to,
• 36:41
  kind of get a little adulting going on at some point, or like, you know, you're, you're going to be, you're going to be pretty limited with how, how your quality of life is going to be. And unfortunately, since none of us have technically have problems, because we have these great houses and careers and stuff like that, a lot of guys are on the red line and they don't realize that, you know, again, it's not just the alcohol, but the, it's the alcohol accelerating all these negative systems when it comes to your sleep and your inflammation and your
• 37:07
  leaky gut and your frazzled brain and all these like lack of discipline and impulse control kind of just perpetuating on and on. It really compounds over time. And so you could really do a lot of damage, but we could really clean that up by kind of addressing all these core systems that I'll call dysregulating because I know the system. I know how guys roll.
• 37:27
  And so we can kind of get that going. But to your point, yeah, you have to kind of reimagine and you have to kind of go inward for a little bit. You have to start taking care of yourself and kind of reemerge after a couple of weeks. And you're looking and feeling noticeably better. You are seeing some buddies, but you're not staying until three in the morning, howling at the moon, chasing your blood alcohol level, you know, go home and have some sex and get up and get after it and go surf or golf in the next morning versus your buddies. It's going to be sick on the couch all night.
• 37:50
  weekend. So, you know, you have, there's trade-offs and it's not like you're going to lose yourself, but you are changing your identity in very positive ways. No doubt. We keep mentioning about, uh, weight loss as a massive benefit of it. Well,
• 38:05
  First of all, why is that? Second of all, I don't know. That's the one part that I can't resonate with because I was in shape before I started. I'm in better shape after. What about alcohol makes you gain weight besides the crap that you eat, besides the fact that you don't feel like going to the gym because you're tired? What is this behind the science that makes you gain weight?
• 38:29
  Is it the sugar? What is it specifically? It's a bunch of different things. It's the sugar and the alcohol. It's increasing your hunger. You're eating more ultra-processed food. It's very caustic to your metabolic health. So your body has to kind of get this toxin out of your body so it can't burn its own body.
• 38:49
  a sugar or fat source has got to burn this alcohol source. So a lot of the get a lot of that gets stored. It's inflaming your liver. So and it's fattening up your liver. It's it's disrupting your sleep and that depletes the glycogen in your brain. So even though, you know, so your brain is pretty frazzled. So you wake up and you have these sugar cravings. And since it is eroding your metabolic health and there's a lot of sugar and a lot of these alcohols, heavy IPAs and things like that.
• 39:14
  You are really spiking your insulin and then deplete and then crashing. And then, you know, you're craving, craving sugar. So you get on these really kind of caustic, you know, up and up and down spikes that just pack it on. And again, you're never going to make any real inroads with with your your weight when you're regularly drinking. There's this no way. Yeah.
• 39:36
  I could tell you firsthand that I think I got all of my sugar from alcohol because when I quit, I had the craving for sugar. I would take Valley Ranchers and I would just chomp on them. Because you got to remember, I didn't – I was in great shape, but now I'm in like the best shape of my life. And I'm 48, soon to be 49 because I just got – the number one –
• 40:02
  benefit that i received besides my life back peace clarity and freedom which are huge was that all my inflammation went away it took a year but i don't all my joints everything stopped hurting and i just i wrote it off too because i'm a big weight lifter i wrote off to oh i just lift heavy oh no it was my uh joints oh you notice that so much oh my god it's the best so having said that what is uh what's
• 40:29
  Hold on a second. What was the biggest, most positive change you experienced that people experienced during their booze vacation that you didn't expect? I didn't expect that. I didn't expect my joints to feel better. What have you seen since you've been doing this? Oh, man. Yeah, definitely sleep's improving. Your skin's improving.
• 40:47
  the shape of your face changes. So it's not like round and puffy. You don't have jowls. So you kind of get your, your face shape back. Your eyes get clearer. Yeah. This weight is so, so much easier to maintain your, the, the foods you crave are more intentional and more in balance with what you need. So you're not just like, it's the one thing kind of mindlessly kind of macking all this, like junk all the time. The one thing you didn't expect is what I was looking for. Is there anything that you did? Like, I'll give you another one. Um,
• 41:15
  healthy relationships yeah healthy relationships it just the second that i cut out you know the booze it's just i could communicate with people better i could do things better it's no surprise that i launched a brand when i did i had more time these are the things like was there was there something that you see over and over i got one i got one that might be a little bit better but cool um
• 41:38
  But yeah, you know, clearly, like, my, my life had this very predictive wave. And during the work week, I was low. I was like, you know, I, I wasn't feeling good because my body, I didn't slept well, I was inflamed, I had ate poorly, my brain was frazzled, and I had all the shit to do. I had all my roles and responsibilities. And so
• 41:57
  instead of being at like a seven, I was at like a four. And then you come along to the weekend and you know, you get this kind of chemical boost. I'm not working. I'm with my friends at an event and I get this kind of chemical boost and I get to chase his blood alcohol thing. And I get to like sevens and eights. And so I think John Mayer said this pretty well, but yeah, you're, you're all your numbers go up. So you can like have really enjoyable moments on a Tuesday at 10 in the morning, or you can have like a Thursday at 1 PM where you're,
• 42:24
  You know, you're not dragging ass and you're kind of in flow. And so, you know, kind of like you're saying when it comes to relationships or performance or just kind of just feeling it, looking and feeling good. And, you know, the key to happiness is presence and being OK with the present moment.
• 42:40
  And when you're regularly putting yourself in these negative states and your body in these negative states or your brain and your stomach are like super critical or like not happy, like it's really hard to like be, oh, I'm going to be present right now where I have an upset stomach and I have brain fog and I, you know, I feel like shit and I look like shit. And so when you're, you know, kind of.
• 42:58
  looking and feeling good and in the zone and performing well and kind of in states of flow, you can kind of just always, it's not about, it stops becoming, you know, cause again, when you're regularly drinking, it's all about past and future, right? It's like, Oh, that party was great. Or, Oh, I kind of berserked out of that party and, Oh, I can't wait for this wedding. I can't wait for this concert. Um,
• 43:17
  And meanwhile, I have to like kind of eke it out. And so you miss all of life because you're always kind of waiting. And then you get to that concert, you forget to eat dinner, your three drinks and you kind of start, you know, freaking out and getting dehydrated. And you don't have that much fun anyways, because you kind of overdid it. You know, you're a little overzealous or whatever it is. So just way more enjoyment, way more, way better performance and way more opportunities for more activities and fun.
• 43:43
  That's exactly what I was looking for, my brother. I appreciate it. And I got to tell you, you said something too that resonated with me. The blotchy skin. Oh, I hated seeing pictures of me. My skin was so blotchy. Oh.
• 43:58
  So it's a, you know, it's a, it's a reflection of what's going on inside. And yet, like you mentioned, the inflammation is a big deal because yeah, it creates a leaky gut. It's, it's, you know, there's a lot of cytokine storm response in your liver. Cause it's like detoxifying this super caustic poison. So yeah, it creates a lot of havoc internally that picks up in your joints. You try to, you try to lift weights, you get a sore shoulder.
• 44:20
  You get a, you know, you get a bum knee and then you can't. And so it's, you know, it's really hard to kind of continue to perform well when you're constantly getting injured and you're strained and you're dehydrated. So it's really incongruent. All right. We got a couple more alcohol related questions and then we're going to switch to some fun ones. So try to make these, uh,
• 44:40
  Short and sweet to the point. Yeah, sorry. No, no, no, no, no, it's all good. You're passionate about this, I get it. People have heard this, this is why. On my podcast they've heard this over and over and over. So you're going into the benefits, man, they're sitting there going, oh man, this is a sign. Kelly's hearing another one.
• 44:55
  I just, I like everybody to feel, you know, misery love company. Happiness loves company. I'm happy. I made one choice. Frickin' stop with the naughty water. And now I'm living the best life ever. And I want to share it with people. And here's another outlet, boozevacation.com. And I'm telling you, I wish you existed when I did this. Because I would have signed up with you in a second. I wish I existed too. It would have been a lot easier. Yeah.
• 45:19
  So a hard point, and everybody gets this. For those who feel like alcohol is a core part of their social life, what are some tips to still be part of the group while avoiding the pressure to drink?
• 45:36
  Yeah. And again, I think, you know, cutting back in the short breaks, I don't even recommend because they're ineffective and you're doing it for the wrong reasons. And you still have the wrong mindset that alcohol is benefiting me. So I want to keep it short. So you have to get enough information and start connecting the dots to see the lines of the matrix and be like, oh, shit, I don't like where this is headed. You know, my dream outcomes are much more likely to happen if I figure this out. And my nightmare scenarios are a lot less a lot more likely to happen if I if I don't as well.
• 46:05
  And so, yeah, once you kind of have that drive and I have to do it, you'll figure it out and figure out, you know, bring, you know, know what to say. Now I'm on a booze vacation right now. And it's not like you're not drinking. Right. So you can drink non-alcoholic beers. They have spirits. They have a bunch of different stuff. So find something that you like. And parties are about the people. And it's time to relearn that. You know, you get so you get so snowed by, you know, all these shows and commercials that it's all about what you're drinking. But.
• 46:32
  It's not. It's about the people. It's about looking and feeling great. And you're a lot more apt to do that on vacation. I'm going to tell you right now, and you can steal this, nobody cares what's in your cup but you. That's true. That's true. And again, it's part of the program. You're just so in your head. You're saying, oh, I can't do this, and what people will think, all this stuff. It's all these weird kind of dumb stories you tell yourself. I don't even...
• 47:00
  Nobody even asks me anymore. It's like, what are you drinking? Soda water. What are you drinking? You got any on any beer? It's just, I don't think twice about it. If somebody looks at me and tries to make me feel guilty for not drinking, I would have like, dude, you're going to be the one feeling that tomorrow. But you've grown a large following on TikTok by talking about alcohol use and health. What message resonates the most with your audience and why do you think this is?
• 47:27
  You know, a cute one I did, and I think it resonates with guys, maybe a little bit more females, but I just, you know, you riff on all these stupid ideas, but I have this one where I'm like, the longer you drink alcohol, the more toxic your body becomes, the less physically attractive you become. And I discuss about how it's a carcinogenic depressant and puffy eyes and bad skin and bad sleep and high stress,
• 47:53
  And, you know, kind of how that manifests, but just kind of talking some shit. So that's a cute one that's got probably like pushing 3 million views. Just, I don't know, for whatever reason. If you ever want me to talk to anybody, I'm the master at this stuff. Like it's...
• 48:09
  I will tell you the hardest part about quitting for me was I was the man. Women loved me. And then when I got sober and decided to not drink anymore, your dating pool shrinks. And I tried to go in and it's like, okay, I can date people that –
• 48:24
  has a few drinks. And my girlfriend now, many months, she has one or maybe two. That's it. Never anymore. So it becomes really weird. Like, whoa, hey, congratulations. You're the king of...
• 48:40
  alcohol related women. That's not, it's like saying you're the tallest midget. It isn't, there's nothing there. Great. So for those listening, uh, who want to try to take a break from alcohol, what's the first step they should take to set themselves up for success?
• 48:56
  Um, well we have a you versus booze quiz. You can kind of see who's winning when it comes to your sleep, your diet, your manliness, your, your health. So that's a good way to start where you can kind of just assess again. I think a lot of that's on the website guys. It's on the website, but a lot of guys are just, you know, they're normals. They're normal and they're normals typically 60%. And they don't realize how much it's, you know, they really vastly underestimate how much it's, it's affecting their daily quality life, even in very, in relatively small amounts. Let me jump in there too. I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just, I just,
• 49:26
  We've gone this whole time and I just realized what you're talking about, 60%. That's your 60% of your capacity in life. Right. The light just went on for me. And your enjoyment, your performance, your energy, your look and feel, your sleep, kind of across the board, your meal, your diet choices, kind of just – you're just in these lower states making lowered, poor, short-term decisions that lead to poor long-term outcomes. Yeah.
• 49:51
  So I tell everybody the same thing. I was a great drinker. I was the life of the party in fun. Me too. And I am now even better life of party now. And I go to everything and I do everything. Now I don't have to look for my cars. I don't have to look for my money. I don't have to, I know where the governor is and people still resonate. I have more fun now than I have ever had in my life. And I would tell you people this much.
• 50:18
  I can do either one. I could go drink. I could not drink. I choose not to drink. And it isn't because I have a problem. I didn't have a problem. I still don't have a problem. I could have a drink tonight. I just choose not to because of all of the benefits that we just discussed. Now, we're going to switch into some fun stuff, a couple of personal ones. We're going to wrap up to have to get the people to know you. Again, all of this stuff will be in the show notes. Head over to the website. I love that freaking quiz. It'll be honest and open and simple. But –
• 50:47
  Clifford, what's the weirdest or funniest reaction you've gotten when you tell people you're on a booze vacation? Oh, this one's kind of funny. So I was in this networking group. So again, I had a Bay Area-based Silicon Valley company where I was consulting. And I was around all these, you know…
• 51:04
  business owners and attorneys and stuff like that. And I was like telling this gal about this attorney, about my passion project booze vacation. And she's like, Oh, and, and I, then I told her what it was and kind of like yours, you're kind of laughing at the name, but it was funny. She kind of had, she, she actually told me this, but you know, most people might keep it, keep it under their, under their hat. But she's like, when you said booze vacation, I thought to myself,
• 51:27
  oh, wow, that sounds cool and fun. I like that. And then when she found out what it actually was, like, oh, no, it's actually a break. The same voice said, oh, I don't like that. And so she was like, why did my inner voice say that? It was kind of a funny epiphany of like, oh, I think I'm kind of a little bit of that target. So it's just kind of funny how, again, and obviously alcohol isn't telling you the whole truth with their 10 billion in advertising on Netflix.
• 51:56
  what you're going to get. But I think there's just some kind of funny epiphanies when you bring it up because again, it's such a foreign concept for everybody. And again, if you want to, you know, look and feel and perform your best, it's something you need to figure out. But I think it's just never talked about.
• 52:11
  I could speak for that too. When I first, I told you that when I first started, when I read this, I thought it was about, how is this in alignment with my, with my brand? And I guess that's where my sick brain goes. And as a matter of fact, if you didn't drink, I thought you were boring. Now it's like, if you do drink, I think you're boring. So I get it. I love it. I think that's funny. That's, that's a great answer. Clifford. I appreciate it. If alcohol were a person and you could break up with it in one dramatic movie style scene, how would it go down?
• 52:45
  Oh man, we could always, we could always go with jaws, right? We could like have a, have it eat that, that air tank and then, you know, shoot, shoot it with the rifle and have it explode into a bunch of pieces. But I love that because I think that's actually a really cool analogy to think of alcohol in a way, because in a way alcohol is kind of like your crazy ex-girlfriend that's kind of hot, but is a, is a lunatic and kind of wants you dead. And I think there's some, a lot of good epiphanies there. If you can kind of,
• 53:12
  Instead of associating alcohol with fun and friends and events, think of her as your crazy ex-girlfriend that, you know, did you dirty and, you know, you want nothing to do with. And it's a good way to kind of like reframe that because that could be tricky, obviously, even though she's not. I love that. And you're right. And watching that scene at the very end where Jaws explodes, that shark explodes, everyone's like, oh, my God.
• 53:34
  And I got to tell you, once that happens and the epiphany and the like goes on and you're through that, it feels really good. You feel like you lost 100 pounds. And then the drama that's out of your life, you'll thank Clifford, you'll thank me later.
• 53:54
  Booze vacation. I love it. And another one that comes to mind is the matrix, like seeing the lines in the matrix, you know, because like I said, I think it's so pervasive and it so changes your brain. So when you get on the other end and you can kind of like start navigating these parties and having fun and not having to worry about an Uber or leaving your car where it's going to get towed and…
• 54:13
  and being social and looking and feeling good. And these guys are starting to get sloppy. And like, you're just like, you know, you're just kind of like seeing the lines and you're not getting sucked in and you're going to have a killer, killer weekend. And they're going to be sick on the couch all weekend. And you went there. So I'm going to talk about that. So it is funny when I'm at these parties. And first of all, people like, Hey, um, uh,
• 54:33
  I'll drive. Who's going to drive? I'm going to drive because I'm sober. I don't drink. And then when you said, oh, the Matrix. Oh, the moment that people start fighting. So being sober in an alcohol-infused environment, it is funny to watch fights.
• 54:53
  Because you're looking at him, you're like, you guys do realize this. You're not even saying the same thing. Like, you called me a bitch. That's not even what he said. But he can't remember what he said. So he's like, so? You realize me as I were watching it, refereeing it, you're like, oh, my God. Is this what it looks like? And I'm going to tell you people, we are laughing at you because it is hilarious. They are not...
• 55:19
  What you guys are saying each other when you're drunk is completely missing the point. And just to not have to deal with that is worth not drinking. Anyways, I got another funny one. I got three more funny questions, and then we'll get you out of here. You're stranded on a deserted island with one food, one book, and one activity. What are you choosing and why? And no booze isn't allowed. So one food, one book, and one what?
• 55:49
  Activity. Okay. So food, I'll say salmon and book, maybe Eckhart Tolle, a new earth. That's really good. That's really kind of a good operating system for your caveman brain in today's society. And one activity, surfing. That's a no-brainer.
• 56:09
  Dude, that's good. Yeah. I would be steak. The four agreements. Oh, four agreements is fantastic. That's the first book I could kind of comprehend. Kind of for sure. You know, it took me so many times to read that, to figure that thing out. But, uh, the activity of me, anything, I just be running on the beach, man, doing pushups and sit ups. And, uh, that would be the best. I love these questions. I, I, I did these last week and completely forgot about them because I was so excited about your interview. Yeah.
• 56:34
  What's more challenging, completing a triathlon or surviving a family gathering without alcohol?
• 56:43
  A triathlon, but yeah, it's, it's surviving. That's a good term for it. Me and my buddies, we're all about not over training if you catch my drift. So yeah, we kind of just show up on game day and kind of eke it out, played water polo. So we were used to getting our ass kicked, but yeah, we just kind of took it easy and enjoyed ourselves. We weren't getting up on the podium, but we had fun, but yeah, it's still slog. Those took a good six and a half, seven hours to get through those half Ironmans that we did.
• 57:07
  I just noticed – I just thought about it as I'm talking about this. We had a family. We're Jewish. So I had the Jewish New Year last week. So we had got together twice with family last week. And I looked around. It was like two people. It had one glass of wine. I said, uh-oh. I started to affect the family. Like it used to be the thing. We would drink and have spirited discussions and it was fun. We didn't bicker. We didn't bicker.
• 57:32
  But now that I think about it, there's only like two people drinking and they had a half a glass of wine. So I'm doing something right. And we had some great discussions about things that we could never discuss when you're drinking. Abortion, politics. This is insane. It's so much fun. It's beautiful. If you could give up one, if you had to give up one forever, alcohol, coffee, or Netflix, which would it be and why? Why?
• 58:03
  Alcohol. Like I said, I'm not, I'm, I'm not telling guys to never drink it again, but you know, another thing, nice thing about becoming the chief vacation officer at booze vacation is it like permanently makes me check, check my alcohol use. And I have actually gotten super smart about it after taking these vacations, but yeah, as you, as you learn the science, no, no amount is safe. Even small amounts can really do a number on your sleep and in your,
• 58:28
  look and feel on, honestly, I feel on this side of 50, there's this zero benefit and, and a bunch of downside. So if you're looking to look and feel and perform your best and enjoy the day to day, there's really not a lot of a return on investment with alcohol over the age of 50 and I'm 52. So that's, that's a lot of, I've been given. I had a good run, but yeah, I'd leave that. So if you could offer one piece of advice or insight to the listeners who don't,
• 58:57
  are thinking about addressing alcohol, what would it be and why? You're vastly underestimating how much is dysregulating your health and...
• 59:08
  and even in small amounts. And most dudes aren't typically drinking in small amounts. They're drinking a little bit more moderately, in air quotes, I'll say, which means you go to a tailgating party and it's five hours and you're drinking a couple drinks every hour, and those drinks have a couple servings of alcohol in them, so it's a pretty significant binge. So it's not like they're hard drinkers, but it's just kind of the social aspect of it. And you stop drinking, you start falling asleep, and so you just kind of continue chasing the dopamine.
• 59:37
  You're just vastly underestimating. And it's not about not drinking or being sober. It's about performance and health and a long runway. So you can live the life you want, have the most options. And you might really like looking, feeling, and screwing better. Who knows?
• 59:53
  I do. Listen, let me tell everybody what mine is. I will tell you that booze was not the causation of any issues. It was definitely a correlation of all issues. It was always relevant. It was always present when there was something going on in my life that was not positive. Head over to boozevacation.com. Take that quiz and have your free 15-minute conversation with Clifford.
• 1:00:20
  And just enjoy life, man. You'll thank me later. Clifford, thanks for playing along. Thanks for being harder than life. And really appreciate you coming on today. Kelly, thank you so much. It was an awesome conversation. And yeah, we're definitely brothers from another mother. And I love what you're doing and really appreciate the time. Thanks, dude.
• 1:00:41
  Please rate and share this podcast. I'm active on all social platforms and love to hear from my Segal supporters. Each and every episode is sponsored by my company, National Technology Management, the easiest and best IT company to do business with, delivering peace of mind with technology every day, even simplifying cybersecurity. Visit TrustNTM.com for more info. Until next week, be harder than life.