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With Camp Around Corner, An Eagles ITB Roundtable Preview · Inside the Birds: A Philadelphia Eagles Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: Hello, welcome to a special Inside the Birds roundtable discussion.
0:13
I'm Jeff Mosher alongside Adam Kaplan and joining us as
0:16
he does around this time every year, is Inside the
0:19
Birds dot COM's Andrew Dcheco, also the host of the
0:24
Checko daily on Inside the Birds and fellas, we are
0:29
very very close less than a week now to the
0:31
start of Eagles training camp and the madness will begin,
0:34
the fun will begin. So we thought it'd be a
0:36
great time to enlighten the audience and really just go
0:39
through a preview of the team as it gets ready
0:42
to converge at the Novercare Complex and get everything started.
0:45
So Andrew, welcome, Adam. Always good to talk to you,
0:48
and you know, let's get it started right away because
0:50
I want to break this thing up first, talk a
0:52
little bit about the offense, a little bit about the defense,
0:54
then ask some big picture questions that we can all
0:58
sort of mull and ponder and talk about. But offensively,
1:02
the big big topic, right I think we'd all agree
1:06
on spring is Kevin Bittulo becoming the offensive coordinator and
1:11
the repetitive mantra, if you will, of opening up the
1:15
offense of the offense can't be stale new iterations, I
1:21
believe were the words that were used by a couple
1:23
of guys, including Jalen Hurts. So, Adam, I want to
1:25
start with you on this because we have talked about
1:27
that concept, but we have not actually talked about what
1:30
we think that concept looks like. When they say open
1:33
up the offense, I think we all know that what
1:36
they mean is passing offense. But when you think of
1:40
this team and opening up the offense a little bit,
1:42
how much a do you think it is absolutely necessary
1:45
and be what in your mind when you visualize opening
1:48
an offense do you think you see.
1:51
Speaker 2: We'll like to get the deep pass game going because
1:53
we saw aj Brown last year, but he had a
1:55
number of deep plays you know, average over sixteen yards
1:58
per catch.
2:00
Speaker 3: They're certainly capable of doing that.
2:01
Speaker 2: I'd like to see that off play action more because
2:05
of what you know, what's gonna come. And we really
2:08
haven't talked about this before, but we know this, Jeff,
2:12
you and I have talked about this over the years.
2:14
Teams study each other in the offseason. Everybody knows the
2:17
offense goes through through Barkley.
2:19
Speaker 3: Right.
2:19
Speaker 2: Well, you saw what the Chiefs did to them and
2:21
then the Eagles and Hurts, they threw the ball deep
2:23
and it looked great, by the way, look beautiful, you know,
2:26
So I.
2:26
Speaker 3: Would expect that.
2:27
Speaker 2: That's I think teams are gonna do all they can
2:30
to make Hurts throw the football. And I'm sure Jalen
2:32
would love that. We know how much he wants to
2:34
be a gun slinger. That's in his DNA look at
2:36
twenty twenty two. So I think that on your question, Jeff,
2:41
and that's people keep asking us in every interview, Okay,
2:44
are they gonna throw the ball more? Yeah, they're probably
2:46
gonna throw it a little bit more. Part of that
2:48
could be the pest attempts might be up because the
2:50
defense might not be as good. Maybe they're playing for
2:52
behind a little bit more. But overall, what's going to
2:55
look like on Kevin Batulo, It's still gonna be run based.
2:59
Do they try Johan Dotson enough now he's finally having
3:03
a full off season in this offense? Do they trust
3:06
him more to play more eleven personnel? You can always
3:07
run out eleven by the way, it's not like you
3:09
have to play twelve. So that those would be my
3:13
thoughts going forward what this thing could look like and.
3:15
Speaker 1: Andrew, I agree with Adam that I don't think that
3:18
we should interpret opening up the offense as all of
3:21
a sudden morphing from a run heavy team to a
3:24
pass heavy team. I wonder what your version though, of
3:28
what it looks like, you know, more deep balls is it?
3:31
Is it getting the intermediary game a little bit more,
3:35
which has always been the area where the Eagles have
3:37
Chalen Hurts particularly is not really thrived as opposed to
3:40
outside the numbers. Do you think that's a part of it?
3:43
Speaker 4: So when I hear the word evolve mentioned by prominent
3:46
figures on the Eagles like Jayalen Hurts, like AJ Brown,
3:50
to me, that doesn't suggest the running game. I think
3:52
that's pretty well at hand running for two thousand and
3:55
five yards and the league's best offensive line. But when
3:57
you hear evolve, and I'm not suggesting it's going to
3:59
be pass but I think you're going to see a
4:01
much more balanced attack. For the offense to evolve, it
4:04
has to take a step forward, It has to have
4:06
another layer to it, and with that, I think you're
4:09
gonna have to see a more expansive passing game more.
4:13
Speaker 5: I guess a little bit more of an innovative passing game, a.
4:15
Speaker 4: Little more intermediary throws and perhaps some more deep shots.
4:18
When you have aj Brown, who's a top five wide
4:21
receiver in the NFL, and you have Devonte Smith and
4:24
Dallas Goddard, it's kind of a mystery and how he's
4:27
utilized because he does have the ability to get vertical
4:29
and threaten the seam there. And I think for jayalhen
4:32
Hurst to take that next step forward the middle of
4:34
the field, it needs to be utilized.
4:36
Speaker 5: A little bit more than it has.
4:37
Speaker 1: Who among the newcomers can help open up the offense
4:42
because when I think about that, I think about trying
4:44
to get a little bit more vertical in the seams
4:47
when you can, And I feel like maybe a Kylan Granton,
4:50
if he makes it, can be that guy. I feel
4:53
like a Shipley on those eh seam routes that we
4:56
used to see Miles Sanders run earlier in his career.
4:59
There is there anybody that jumps out to you that
5:02
you think can help open the offense?
5:05
Speaker 4: Well, Grantson's gonna have to make the team obviously first
5:07
for that to happen, But Will Shipley would be the
5:10
obvious choice, And I think that you're I'm curious to
5:13
see how he's utilized in training camp because I do
5:15
envision him being a piece that you can move around
5:17
and get creative with because he is explosive, catches the
5:20
football well, runs really good routes, and he's going to
5:23
be an interesting element to the offense. He's going to
5:25
add another dimension, so to get vertical and to use
5:28
some pieces that you have. I think Bill Shipley would
5:30
be the most obvious in house option for.
5:33
Speaker 1: That, Adam, do you think it's better for the team overall?
5:36
If Kylon Grantson has a really good camp and makes
5:39
it as a tight end, then say Harris and Bryant,
5:42
who can catch the ball more so in college than
5:45
he's done in the NFL, but probably doesn't stretch a
5:48
field the same way that Kylon Granson is because he's
5:51
a little lighter and a little faster.
5:53
Speaker 3: Yeah.
5:54
Speaker 2: Well, because you're talking about more explosive plays. If Granton
5:57
could be a factor, the key here is could someone
6:02
give him a different look than grand calca terror Calcutara
6:05
tries to block. You know, he's got a little better
6:07
at it marginally, but it's not good enough. Brian's a
6:10
better blocker Brian's a two way player, run after the
6:13
catch guy. He doesn't have grants, it's juice grants. It's
6:17
smaller and faster. But the cool thing about this is
6:20
when they play twelve, you've got got her. Who could
6:22
be He could be the Y, he could be the F.
6:26
You could use him in a variety of ways. And obviously,
6:28
if Brian is the two, Brian could believe the why
6:31
and you can move got her and that gives them
6:33
a different look. Because Andrew talked about how things could
6:36
evolve a little bit. I'm not blaming Kellimore. He it
6:40
was his first year there and he just got a
6:42
head coaching job. He did a good job, but we
6:45
wanted to see a little bit more diversity with their
6:47
offense last season.
6:48
Speaker 3: We didn't quite see it.
6:49
Speaker 2: Now I understand he wasn't really running what he had
6:52
run in the past. Heavy eleven personnel. You know, talking
6:56
to people know kell Andy he's a guy whould run
6:57
ten personnel.
6:58
Speaker 3: Just didn't know.
7:00
Speaker 2: You have the best running back in football last season.
7:02
You you run what you run and it it by
7:03
the way, it worked damn well with with Barkley, so
7:06
it can't argue against it. But evolving going forward here
7:11
a little bit better usage than person. By the way
7:13
the screen game, yes, Shipley can do it, and by
7:19
the way, Barkley can do it. You sold on the
7:22
wheel in week one against Isaiah I think was Isaiah McDuffie.
7:26
He beat it in that was beautiful. Yeah, let's go.
7:30
Speaker 1: I I don't know where the tight end screen game went.
7:34
It used to give Doug Peterson credit for this. He
7:38
car' he created beautiful tight end screens and tight end
7:41
tunnel screens for Dallas Goddard that nobody else has been
7:44
able to replicate so far. But Dallas Godder is my
7:46
favorite screen weapon. You just don't see it used that
7:50
often anymore. Let's move on to talk about opening up
7:54
the offense and specific players. Uh, this this receiver group
7:59
by byway, before I even get to the backup receiver group.
8:02
I wanted to run this by Andrew because thatdam and
8:05
I talked about this on a recent podcast. I think
8:08
also think when we talk about evolution or taking a
8:10
step up offensively, it doesn't have to be somebody new.
8:13
I think there's rooms for DeVante Smith to take it
8:17
to another level in this offense. And I think what
8:19
we've seen for a few years here is that he's
8:22
actually used on a more diverse route tree than Aj Brown. Great,
8:28
but you basically see Aj run from the X, the deep,
8:31
you know, the fade, the quick, the bang in right,
8:35
and then a couple of maybe a post. But I
8:38
feel like Davante, they move around and use a lot more.
8:40
It does seem to me Andrew that if there's gonna
8:43
be one player who we talk about frequently who maybe
8:46
makes twenty five percent jump in production, that's a lot
8:48
fifteen percent jump, could be DeVante Smith.
8:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say DeVante Smith for sure, because he
8:54
does run such a diverse route tree, and I think
8:56
that he could be the player that they turn to
8:58
for deep shots and if they lean heavier towards intermediary routes,
9:03
he would be the obvious choice. But I would also
9:05
say that Johan Dotson, and I'm not suggesting he's going
9:08
to eat into anyone's targets, but he had believe it
9:11
was nineteen catches on thirty three targets, so anything from
9:15
twenty five to thirty catches would be a dramatic increase.
9:18
But it's how they utilize him, because when I saw
9:21
Johan Dotson as a rookie. You saw a player who
9:23
was able to create in space. Last season, he never
9:26
was really afforded that opportunity. He also didn't have a
9:28
full offseason. So I think if you can get him vertical,
9:31
maybe you get him on the move, you can open
9:33
things up and you just utilize him in a different
9:35
way as well. So I think that there's going to
9:37
be a couple different players that are the beneficiary of
9:39
some more targets.
9:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, Adam. I mean, Johan is a tough one, only
9:44
in that sometimes he's miscasts because he's not necessarily a
9:47
slot receiver, but he's had to play there. And then
9:51
when you put him on the outside, because he's only
9:53
what five ten five eleven, he's a.
9:55
Speaker 5: Small like five to eleven.
9:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can bang him around a little bit. That
9:59
was the big reason watching and you know, we talked
10:00
about getting rid of him. It's just one of them. Yeah.
10:04
So I've kind of, you know, I'm a Penn Steak.
10:08
I've always wanted to see him succeed and flourish and
10:10
and show he was amazing his last year at Penn State, Adam,
10:13
But I just wonder how he finds his identity in
10:17
this offense. As long with with a healthy aj Brown
10:20
and a healthy DeVante Smith.
10:22
Speaker 3: Well, it's two things. A.
10:23
Speaker 2: How healthy are they he's the next guy up A
10:27
And B how much eleven are they going to run?
10:29
M They were so low e eleven because they didn't
10:33
need to, you know. Yeah, but that's on your on
10:36
Andrew's point about evolving as as you would. Guys were talking,
10:39
I was thinking about Okay, we just talked about the
10:42
tight ends you talk with the tunnel screens, with the
10:45
hide screen that the Rams run with Tyler Higbee, and
10:47
he kills it, by the.
10:48
Speaker 5: Way, he's so good, so good at it.
10:51
Speaker 3: He gets real small.
10:53
Speaker 1: Yeah.
10:54
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'd like to to see diversity of of
10:56
of the playbook, bringing some new wrinkles. And this is,
10:59
by the way, Batulo, because he knows this is one
11:02
thing on your point, Jeff, and what could look different?
11:06
Remember Kevin Batulo, this is his fifth year here. He
11:09
knows all these players and Datsidi's new to the thing.
11:11
He knows all these guys, so he knows what they're
11:14
good at. And Kellen again, it's not a chrismon criticism.
11:17
Speaker 3: Of Kellen Moore.
11:18
Speaker 1: He didn't know.
11:18
Speaker 3: He just got there last year, so he didn't know
11:20
these guys.
11:21
Speaker 4: You're Adam is one hundred percent right about this. That's
11:23
something that isn't often taken into account. The passing game
11:26
was fairly choppy to start the season, and then they
11:28
had to deviate their approach, but a lot of that
11:31
had to do with Kellen Moore taking some time to
11:33
acclimate to the personnel, and also Jaylen Hurts acclamating to
11:36
Kellen Moore, whereas Kevin Patullo has that familiarity having been
11:40
there working with Jaylen Hurst since twenty twenty one and
11:43
a lot of those players for at least a few seasons.
11:46
Speaker 1: I feel like the and we forget about this because
11:49
you know, the Eus win the Super Bowl and it
11:50
seems like anything that happened before that didn't exist. But
11:54
the passing game to me was basically just average for
11:58
like thirteen weeks of that Steelers game right where all
12:02
of a sudden they come out spread and no huddle
12:05
and Jalen's thrown it all over the place and they
12:06
score twenty seven points. He go to twelve, twelve and two,
12:11
and then you know, they had some pretty good games
12:13
after that and then bam in the playoffs, again a
12:15
little slow start against the Packers and then Rams and
12:17
then bam, it picked it right up. This passing game
12:20
is like mind boggling to me. But I do agree
12:22
that the comfort with Kellen Moore and the personnel was
12:26
probably an issue very early on.
12:31
Speaker 5: It didn't seem like they were on the same page,
12:32
and I think they had a lot to do with it.
12:34
Speaker 3: Sure you know that you pick it.
12:36
Speaker 2: You mentioned the Pittsburgh Pittsburgh game, Hurts his best game
12:39
in the last two years. Not only was he incredible,
12:43
they did it without Goddard Brown and Smith had over
12:47
one hundred yards. And remember Brown hurt his name that
12:49
game when he they really should they were up big
12:52
and they should have should have taken him out, but
12:55
it was Hurts was so aggressive he I mean, I
13:00
would say it's one of the best games he's had
13:02
as an Eagle.
13:02
Speaker 3: And the best game was the Super Bowl in twenty two.
13:05
Speaker 2: Man, he was dealing and I remember saying we were
13:08
watching that game, like, where the hell's this been all season?
13:11
Speaker 5: Well?
13:12
Speaker 2: Right, all those concepts and I know Jalen but like
13:15
most quarterbacks, likes to go faster, no huddle, give him
13:19
more responsibility, which he's asked for and he got. It
13:22
was a dominant offense and it was one of those
13:24
games where I felt, had the game been close, Hurtzmunde
13:27
had he had two ninety that game, he might have
13:28
had four hundred yards. They could not stop him in
13:30
that game.
13:31
Speaker 1: No, Yeah, you know it's funny because that's that game
13:34
was the epitome of something Greg Cosel had been saying
13:37
for quite a bit all year long. And it's funny
13:40
that people forget that Greg says this because it's a
13:43
really positive thing about Jalen, and they only want to
13:45
act like Greg says negative things. But Greg said that
13:48
Jalen has one of the best abilities he's seen to
13:51
know when to get the offense in and out of
13:54
no huddle on how to use it advantageously. And I
13:56
really remember that Steelers game sticking out, and I remember
13:59
watching the tape and seeing how they went no huddle
14:01
right after Who is there really good interior pass rusher
14:05
we know they have. It wasn't what because he was
14:07
hurt they have? Yeah, Bet and Heyward both left the field,
14:12
so because they were bringing on some run personnel and
14:15
then all of a sudden, you see, uh, both the
14:17
offensive coordinator and jail and getting in sync and changing
14:20
it and going up to no huddle. So that's a
14:23
really good and underrated part of Jalen's game. That what
14:26
you just mentioned at taking over control of the offense
14:30
and having the autonomy to do things like that, uh
14:33
are a big part. But I will let's end the
14:35
offensive preview on this with Jalen. Jalen has said himself
14:40
many times that this offense has to evolve and there
14:43
needs to be a newer iteration of it. And when
14:45
you're the Super Bowl MVP and the highest paid guy
14:48
and you make that statement, but that doesn't mean everybody
14:50
else has got to figure out a way evolved but
14:52
not you. So I feel like that you hold Jalen
14:55
to his word and say, hey, look, part of evolving
14:57
this offense is to figure out a way to utilize
15:00
that middle of the field or else teams are really
15:02
going to start game planning ways to try to do
15:05
everything they can defend outside the numbers and force you to.
15:08
So do you agree Andrew that this is an area
15:11
that Jones got to figure out a way to make
15:14
another progression in?
15:16
Speaker 6: Oh?
15:17
Speaker 5: Absolutely?
15:17
Speaker 4: I mean there are areas of his game that you'd
15:19
like to see take a leap forward and utilizing the
15:21
middle of the field is something that has been glaringly
15:24
absent from the offense for a number of years now.
15:27
But also to take this a step further, utilizing the
15:30
running backs in the receiving game, because it seems like
15:33
every summer you see it, whether it's DeAndre Swift, last summer,
15:36
it was Saquon Barkie Adam you remember, and then all
15:40
of a sudden the season rolls around and none of
15:42
that comes to fruition. I don't know if it's a
15:44
faforibility thing, but they have the talent to do it,
15:47
and someone like will Shipley can give you a unique
15:49
dynamic to the offense.
15:51
Speaker 5: Some seen him be able to do it.
15:53
Speaker 4: And I think for you know, you talk about evolve,
15:55
you automatically think passing game downfield. No, it's certain that
16:00
you have to make whether it be field usage or
16:03
even getting other players involved so that you're adding some
16:06
variance to the equation.
16:07
Speaker 5: I think that has to be a big part of it.
16:09
Speaker 2: So Andrew and I are are training camp last summer
16:11
and I'm standing right next to him, and you know,
16:13
game Well and Shipley are rotating and Shipley. Shipley's ability
16:19
to take the ball and turn and turn his hips
16:22
and get up field.
16:23
Speaker 3: Game, well, can't do that.
16:24
Speaker 2: And I was, like I said, Andrew, right, there is
16:26
the difference. I get games, a better past protector. Ship
16:29
has got to prove himself and all this stuff. But
16:31
you just see the juice that as a change up. Jeff,
16:34
you want to know what could be different? Well, they
16:36
didn't really use Shipley last year because game was ahead
16:38
of them, game was gone, dam was not fast. Yeah,
16:42
so why not three to five carries a game of
16:45
three to five touches a game? Figure out a way
16:47
to get you look, get some juice from Shipley.
16:51
Speaker 1: I love it. I like it a lot, all right.
16:52
So that's our look at the offense going to training camp.
16:56
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17:57
as we go to defense, guys, I've been I have
18:00
been guilty of overthinking things before and unfortunately there's just
18:03
way too much time in the summer to overthink things
18:06
before going into training camp. But I do think this
18:10
the Eagles right now. If you look at like Vegas,
18:12
Adam and I did a pod recently where we talked
18:15
about some of the props on the team success. If
18:18
you look at some of the rankings of teams from
18:20
national outlets, the Eagles a right there in the top three,
18:22
top four, it's or if not number one. But this
18:26
defense is replacing really significant players. Josh Sweat, Milton Williams,
18:33
Caesar Gardner, Johnson, Kobe Dean won't be back for the
18:35
first month at least of the season. That's and of
18:40
course Darius Sleigh right, that's These are not just guys
18:43
who contributed. These were really impactful players, all of which
18:47
need to be replaced. So I guess my guilty of
18:50
overthinking this. Adam starts with maybe everybody's sort of minimizing
18:54
how many Like we did see some good young talent,
18:58
but the losses on defense are quite a bit, and
19:01
I think it's a toll order to ask this to
19:03
be a number one, two or three defense again, especially
19:06
right off the bat when they have a tough schedule
19:08
in the first opening month against some good offenses and
19:11
a defense is just going to be coming together.
19:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're questions, no, no doubt. Moro Jones a full
19:18
time player. We all like him.
19:20
Speaker 2: We know he's talented. He's probably a better edge rusher
19:22
and not Edwrush, he's better pass rusher than Walls. Meltwilliams
19:26
is a better football player. He Milt Williams does everything well,
19:28
it's just not a high impact edge rusher or i
19:30
mean pass rusher. So they got to get through that.
19:35
They got to get through their rotation on the D line.
19:38
Jordan Davis expect to have a bigger role. What that
19:40
looks like, we'll probably will know through training camp. Then
19:45
Nolan Smith or and we as much as we've loved
19:47
Jaylex Hunts, he was drafted. It's been a great story.
19:50
Now he's a full time player. This is only his
19:52
fourth years an edge rusher. You know, the guy went
19:55
to a very small school for two years, Houston Christian.
19:58
That's where you learned how to play as an edge rusher.
20:01
After that, gross s Burt, we'll see what happens. I
20:05
just don't know about him yet, see Jeff on your point,
20:08
there are just a lot of questions. I mean, we
20:09
know the corner of the biggest one is the corner
20:12
position opposite Quinna Mitchell. So yeah, you're right, it's on paper.
20:17
It's hard to see him as a number on defense.
20:19
I don't see it, but we didn't say it last year,
20:21
So what do we know?
20:23
Speaker 1: And Andrew, you just wonder if it's not a top
20:26
five defense, if there are a defense that gives up
20:29
twenty three points, I think, what were they like eighteen
20:32
to twenty one by the end of last year. If
20:33
they're twenty three to twenty four, well, that forces the
20:36
offense have to get to, you know, twenty five to
20:39
twenty eight every week. And there were some games they
20:42
won last year with a shaky offense, right because their
20:45
defense really rose to the occasion. So I do think
20:49
that generally the outside looking at the Eagles, and maybe
20:52
even the inside Eagles fan are looking at this defense
20:55
and putting so much faith in Fangio and that unit
20:59
that the crew except did such a good job last
21:01
year that we're forgetting the number of snaps lost overall
21:05
from the people who have left.
21:07
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, it's your one hundred percent right on that jet.
21:09
Speaker 4: But the Eagles still have Jayalen Carter, they still have
21:11
Zach Bond, they have the two young corners in Quidnan
21:14
Mitchell Cooper Dejane Reed.
21:15
Speaker 5: Blanket Ship I think is primed to be a pretty
21:18
prominent leader on this team.
21:20
Speaker 4: There are questions at corner, namely with adri Jackson and
21:23
keithy Ringo going head to head for that spot. But
21:26
I think when you look at the defense as a whole.
21:29
There were questions about last year's defense. Nolan Smith, he
21:32
played sixteen percent of the steps as a rookie.
21:35
Speaker 5: What did you have in him?
21:36
Speaker 4: Jayalb Son obviously very new, Zach Bond, no one knew
21:40
what he was going to be capable of. And you know,
21:43
you look at Nakobe Dean, you go across the board,
21:47
how are those two young corners going to be able
21:49
to adjust? And when you have Vic Vangio there, I
21:51
know it sounds simple, It's not a fix all, but
21:54
he knows exactly what he's looking for. And the Eagles
21:56
have a very sound group of defensive coaches that are
22:00
very good at teaching the fundamentals and explaining the why
22:02
and making sure everybody's kind of on the same page.
22:04
Speaker 5: There.
22:05
Speaker 4: The big question I have is that defensive tackle, because
22:09
Jordan Davis has never played more than forty five percent
22:11
of the snaps in his career or Jomo played the
22:15
same exact amount of snaps last season as Jordan Davis
22:18
three hundred and eighty eight, And I think that you're
22:21
gonna have to kind of supplement the loss of Milton Williams,
22:23
who played five hundred snaps for the Eagles last year.
22:26
That's where I want to see. I think Jomo can
22:28
do it, but you want to see Jordan Davis make
22:30
that step and kind of help a tone for that loss.
22:32
Speaker 1: That's the biggest Yeah, And Adam, it's it's twofold. It's
22:36
it's a being able to play the number of snaps
22:39
that Milton Williams loss, and then b whoever is filling
22:43
those snaps, whether it's one two tandem mix ty Robinson,
22:46
that all of those snaps are at the similar level,
22:50
or even if they're listen, if there's a little drop off,
22:52
it's understandable. But that was an important part of their run.
22:55
How dominant Millon Williams was in those snaps. Now some
22:58
of that is playing mix to Jail and car harder
23:00
at him, but still it's someone's got to prove that
23:02
they can either collectively or one or two individuals step
23:07
up and play at that level.
23:08
Speaker 5: That's tough.
23:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean mil Williams's ability to win one on
23:11
one matchups and his his core strength.
23:14
Speaker 3: Man, it's just phenomenally.
23:17
Speaker 2: I know that you didn't have the greatest measurement measurables,
23:20
long arms and stuff, but super explosive for a guy
23:23
who's built pretty tight. But Moro Jomo has a chance
23:29
to be a better pass rusher. I'd be surprised if
23:31
he's not. It's just though, as a full time player,
23:34
we don't know. We just don't know because he hasn't
23:36
done it yet. And you mentioned the rotation or what
23:40
it could look like with Ty Robbins, they're expecting probably
23:42
to be the first guy off the bench. Got to
23:44
see if he can handle it as a rookie. And
23:46
I give how he credit and and and uh Fangio credit.
23:49
They're willing to go if young players are not worried
23:51
about it. And you know, it's funny because vic had
23:54
been criticized for not wanted to play young players.
23:57
Speaker 3: We saw that the hell out of the door. That
23:58
that's that wasn't true. Yeah, that it was one of
24:01
the credits. There were a lot of There were a
24:02
lot of criticisms.
24:03
Speaker 2: Almost all of them were false, a lot of them
24:05
on social media, which people be careful for who you
24:08
believe and listen to when it comes to hate of
24:12
a coach or the guys that people thought he was overrated. Okay,
24:14
that's fine, you don't think that now anymore. But Vic
24:18
and his coaches that they move this along here have
24:19
a big challenge in their hands because they're not going
24:22
to have Dean Early.
24:23
Speaker 3: Got to get ja Hot Campbell up to speed.
24:26
Speaker 2: We don't know about josh Ucha if you still play,
24:28
because he he hasn't been a factor in the last
24:29
two years. O Je Lauri hasn't proven he could stay
24:32
on the field. He's pretty good when he does. Hunt
24:34
now is a full time player. That the questions were
24:37
different last year than this Andrew's points are really good,
24:40
but they're different that this year, they're almost completely different.
24:43
Speaker 3: To be honest with you, all right, I agree.
24:45
Speaker 1: I feel like last year the questions were can these gut?
24:48
Can this guy play? Can he can zat Evin White
24:51
be a good linebacker court because at the time that's
24:53
what what people were thinking, And and now it's just
24:56
can they grow. We've seen that Nolan Smith can play,
24:59
seen Jaloks Hunt can play. We see Moro Jomo can play.
25:01
So I agree with you on that the question are different.
25:04
It's just that there are so many guys that we're
25:06
going to be asking can you grow? Can you grow?
25:09
Can you grow? About that? It makes you just you know,
25:12
the defense was the reason they won last year. That
25:15
was a huge part of it. Linebacker, we've talked about
25:18
Niccobe Dean. Adam brot up a really good point, and
25:20
while he was talking about it, Andrew, I thought this
25:23
in my head. So I'll ask this to you and
25:25
I'll get your opinion on it. To Adam, is there
25:27
a scenario in your mind where when Nikobe Dean is
25:31
finally one hundred percent healthy and ready to play, that
25:34
he is not going to be the starter.
25:37
Speaker 5: I think that's likely. I think if okay, well, here's
25:41
the thing.
25:42
Speaker 4: If Jihad Campbell is proving that he's really transitioning to
25:45
the NFL really well and being a high impact player,
25:48
why would you take him off the field, or even.
25:50
Speaker 1: If Jeremiah Trotter is playing at a really high level.
25:53
I mean, your point is that they are going to
25:56
look at Campbell and he is a great athlete, right.
25:59
Speaker 4: So you don't want to struck continuity for the sake
26:01
of doing so. That's not to say that n Kobe
26:03
Dean wouldn't have a role. He's really good as a
26:06
downhill player. And I've mentioned this to you guys before.
26:08
I believe that he was the heartbeat of that defense
26:10
last season. His personality and setting the tone and his leadership.
26:15
Speaker 5: He'll have a role. But if Campbell's playing well, I
26:17
think he would behoove the Eagles to stick with the
26:19
hot hand.
26:20
Speaker 2: You know only that Campbell's the first round pick right
26:23
n Kobe's come a major one of the worst injuries
26:26
you could have. He's on the final evers rookie deal. Unfortunately,
26:30
the future could be Campbell inside backer. They don't They
26:32
won't know till they get through the season where they'll
26:34
line him up in twenty six and beyond. Don't forget
26:37
about smile man and is there so that that's another
26:40
wrench to this, which could be fascinating is he's longer
26:44
than Trotchjunior. He could push Trotchu and right now Trotchuna
26:50
would be the starter of the season started today, but
26:52
it doesn't start today. So they got to get through
26:54
six weeks till the season starts, or a little bit longer,
26:57
and we'll see what it looks like. But he saw
27:00
back of positions facetting other than bon who I have
27:03
no reason to believe that he can't come close to
27:04
if not matching last year. It sounds crazy, but the
27:08
guy everything we've heard about, the temperament, the leadership, by
27:13
the way his his coverage. Friend of mine I spoke
27:17
with recently who graded Eagles tape so that Bond's Bond
27:21
might have been one of the best coverage linebackers a football.
27:23
Wasn't just the best linebacker football. He might be one
27:25
of the best coverage linebackers. Like who the hell could
27:27
have known that.
27:29
Speaker 1: I tell you I really feel for na Kobe Dean
27:32
because it sucks. He was really coming into his own
27:35
last year. You're starting to see what made him such
27:38
a great player at Georgia. It took some time, but
27:41
it was there. He was the leader of the team.
27:43
That interception against Jacksonville was amazing, just you wrote a
27:47
great story. He saw it coming before the ball was
27:49
even released, and you know, for that to happen to
27:52
him really sucks for him. And now, as you guys
27:54
both mentioned, they got a first round pick competing there
27:58
and then a kid in Jeremiah Trold Junior who had
28:02
a really good career at Clemson and maybe not the athlete,
28:05
but has the the sense and the instincts of how
28:08
to play that musician.
28:09
Speaker 5: This is the last year. That COVID means rookie deal
28:11
too by one.
28:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And that's what makes it really suck
28:15
all the more. And I'm really curious to see when
28:17
he comes back if these injuries have not taken just
28:20
an overall toll. It would be hard for me to
28:22
believe that they would not.
28:24
Speaker 2: Oh not only that, uh, Jeff, think about it. Torm
28:27
Mittel attendant. That's worse than an ACL, that rehabs longer.
28:30
Even because you mentioned earlier, Okay, when he comes back,
28:34
to think he'll even be close to what he was
28:36
physically is just not realistic. It's gonna be hard for
28:40
him to get meaningful snaps even when it gets cleared.
28:43
Speaker 1: I again, we'll see with.
28:45
Speaker 2: Johab Cambell how he's doing. He's got ideals. He love
28:48
the size for that inside backup position. He's bigger than
28:51
Bond physically, his frames bigger, and Bond's a stud and
28:56
Mondan could factor in. We know trot Union did very
28:58
well and practice last year from what we understand, so
29:02
Dean might be on the outside looking in in terms
29:04
of getting a roll. I mean it's right now, I
29:06
don't know what kind of role he would have.
29:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's true. It'll be fun to watch, all right.
29:12
We'll just we'll finish it off here. We'll look at
29:14
the back end. Obviously a lot of eyes on that
29:17
left cornerback spot with Killey Ringo and Adri Jackson, and
29:20
of course the safety spot with Sidney Brown and Andrew mccuba,
29:25
Drew mccuba, Red Blanke and Ship Andrew. Adam and I
29:31
were talking about this, and I thought Adam made a
29:33
great point. It was a pod that I think we
29:35
have Monday morning. Howie Roseman will not let one spot
29:39
right derail what could be a very good team. It
29:42
could be a good defense. It comes together. If at
29:45
either spot, whether it's safety or a corner, they are
29:47
getting low level play or a below expectation play, that
29:51
would probably be the first first move right, upgrade corner,
29:55
upgread safety if yeah, confidence right now though, in Dorri
30:00
Jackson and Killey Ringo. As far as one guy really seesing.
30:03
Speaker 4: That, well, all we have to go off of is
30:06
over three hundred snaps of Keeley Ringo over the last
30:10
two seasons.
30:11
Speaker 5: Adam, you and I saw it last summer. I thought
30:14
that he Killey Ringo looked good. Notes as but like
30:17
he's talked about, that's the minor.
30:19
Speaker 4: Leagues get he go up a level, and that's where
30:21
you saw Kelley Ringo struggle with some technique right, he
30:25
got grabby, he was handsy, He struggled with DeVante Smith
30:28
in particular. Guess what he's going to be going against
30:31
receivers of that caliber all season. And so I think
30:34
we're gonna learn really quickly in training camp whether or
30:37
not he has it and the lights come on, or
30:39
whether or not they're going to have to look for
30:41
another option. But Adorri Jackson, he's played a lot of
30:44
football as well. I don't know at this stage if
30:47
he's a viable starter on a team like this. But
30:50
you know, obviously Kealey Ringo is going to go into
30:52
it with the inside track. But it's hard to have
30:54
a sense of confidence when you haven't seen a lot
30:57
in what you have has been sort of volatile.
30:59
Speaker 3: And the one thing Andrew I'm gonna be looking for
31:00
training camp.
31:01
Speaker 2: Greg O Sel told us recently on on uh This
31:05
when we previewed Eagles off season and what it's going
31:08
to look like this season. One thing he brought up
31:10
but I had not heard him talk about before Ringo
31:12
has real issues redirecting his his his body, and it's
31:16
the it's the tightness in his hips. Can I've I've
31:20
I've probably asked twenty people who've worked in the league
31:22
for years about this. Only one guy said, yeah, I
31:26
think you could loosen up a little bit. Everyone else
31:28
is like, no, no, no, you can't. If you're stiff,
31:30
you're stiff. If you're stiff hip, he has trouble transitioning.
31:33
And man, I'm telling you, Andrew the first week of
31:35
training camp last year, I'm like, man, he can.
31:38
Speaker 3: When it's funny because.
31:39
Speaker 2: Greg brought up I'm like, yeah, that's what I saw
31:40
last summer when Rogers pulled head after the first week.
31:43
Speaker 3: He couldn't.
31:44
Speaker 2: He couldn't, he couldn't shift, And Greg said, he also
31:47
has trouble stop it. It's the same kept right, he's
31:54
high hepped and he has trouble doing it. Running in
31:57
a straight line is great, but you got to be
31:59
able to transition and that it's just a problem.
32:02
Speaker 3: Yeah.
32:02
Speaker 1: I keep thinking about the practice that we watched in
32:05
Miami a couple of years ago when they only have
32:08
one day. If in the guy with the stomach bug
32:11
and Tyreek Hill put on a clinic against Sleigh fluid Mover.
32:18
That it makes me I've been thinking lately, what what
32:20
if Kille Ringo had to go up against Tyreek Hill
32:23
in these one on ones? Like how how difficult would
32:26
that be for a guy who's a little bit stiff
32:28
hip to go up against Tyreek freaking Hill.
32:31
Speaker 5: I like the fact that you're even thinking about that
32:34
Ringo versus Tyreek Hill.
32:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Ringo would like to think about it until
32:39
it happens, you know. Yeah, by the way, right after
32:41
Tyreek Hill got the best of Darius, lay Dar's like,
32:44
oh wait, you know, I feel like my Haami's getting
32:46
a little tightier. We bounced off the field like.
32:50
Speaker 2: Well, but I'll tell you what if ring Guys, if
32:53
Ringo wents to starting job, you know where Dallas is
32:55
going to go because they got George Pickens. Now, ye
32:59
who runs better than see is a really good player
33:01
complaining center outside, but Pickens could go get it. That's man,
33:07
if you just look at it, it's funny where we're
33:09
talking about this. I'm just we're just thinking out loud
33:10
as you guys are talking. Then you got the speed
33:13
sers with Kansas City, I know they just played in
33:15
the Super Bowl. But if it's ringall, he's got to
33:17
be able to stop those guys. You got Sean McVay
33:19
who will exploit anything he sees. And then to Tampa.
33:22
You know, Vegles have had challenges against Tampa. And by
33:24
the way, Denver is very deep at receiver and they
33:26
got all sorts of talent at that position.
33:29
Speaker 1: Great stuff, awesome, Well, it's gonna be a great time. Well,
33:32
all of us will be at training camp it starts
33:35
next week. Looking forward to it. I like this little roundtable.
33:39
I think we did this last year in the year
33:40
before right before camp starts, where we just kind of
33:43
take the temperature of the team, see what it's all about.
33:46
And so that is gonna do it for this episode
33:48
of the Inside the Birds pre training Camp round table
33:52
for Andrew to Checko and Adam Kaplan. I'm Jeff Mosher.
33:55
Thanks all for watching. We'll catch you on the next one.
34:00
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