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Foster Care Uncovered · Foster Care Uncovered

0:21
Welcome to the first episode of Foster Care Uncovered.
0:26
This is going to be a space where curiosity meets
0:28
courage and nothing is off limits. We're going
0:31
to cut through the noise to look at what's working,
0:33
what isn't and what's holding back the real change
0:37
foster care so desperately needs. We're going
0:40
to be having honest, straight talking conversations
0:42
with guests who challenge the system and push
0:45
for better. You're going to hear stories that
0:47
matter, ideas that make you stop and think and
0:51
perspectives that help make sense of what's really
0:53
happening in our sector. And we'll always be
0:56
looking ahead, focusing on solutions and how
1:00
we can help make change happen. Our children,
1:04
young people and care leavers deserve far more
1:06
than they're getting right now. Foster care is
1:09
only as good as the outcomes for those who've
1:11
lived through it. And those outcomes have been
1:14
poor for far too long. It's a dial we have to
1:17
move and we have to move it together. In this
1:20
opening episode, we're going to introduce ourselves,
1:23
the vision behind the podcast. We're going to
1:25
take a fresh look at what foster care really
1:27
is, who foster carers are and the sector that
1:30
surrounds them. Plus a glimpse of what's coming
1:33
next. I'm Sarah Anderson. I'm the founder of
1:37
Foster Wiki, co -founder of the Starling Model
1:40
and the National Foster Carers Qualifications.
1:43
A foster carer of 16 years. and someone who's
1:46
spent over a decade in this space campaigning
1:49
for real change in foster care. I've worked with
1:53
thousands of carers on the front line and engaged
1:55
with government, local authorities, agencies
1:57
and sector leaders. I'm also a psychotherapist
2:00
specialising in child and adolescent mental health.
2:03
And I'm thrilled to be joined by the one and
2:06
only Louise Allen, who is a long -time partner
2:09
in crime and friend, and she shares my passion
2:12
and obsession for foster care and our belief
2:16
in its potential to make a real positive impact
2:19
on the crisis facing children and young people
2:22
in care. If only we can get it right. Hi, I'm
2:26
Louise Allen. I'm an artist, writer, founder
2:29
of Spark Sisterhood, the charity for girls who
2:32
are in care and experienced foster carer who
2:35
lives with the highs, the lows and the midnight
2:38
tea and toast. Oh, and I'm caring. Love it. right
2:46
so let's get to it um sarah i think because this
2:53
is our first podcast i think we need to explain
2:56
to to our listeners why us why why are we doing
3:02
this and i think i'd like to start with the fact
3:05
that i met you 15 years ago um when we had started
3:11
fostering because I was a bit shocked when we
3:16
became foster carers. And I wasn't really quite
3:19
sure what I'd let myself in for. And I wasn't
3:22
really talking about the children. And I saw
3:24
you in The Guardian. And I read an article about
3:29
you. That was a while back, yes. Yeah, that was.
3:32
Thomas Jones, I think, did that one, yeah. Yes.
3:35
And I reached out to you. And I basically said,
3:38
please be my friend, help. And we've been talking
3:42
ever since. We've been through some, I would
3:46
say highs, but I don't think we've ever hit high.
3:49
We've hit a lot of lows and mid -bits. We've
3:53
worked tirelessly and very hard for our fellow
3:59
foster carers. And it grew and grew. It went
4:03
from... us recognizing the flaws in the system
4:08
in terms of foster care because the foster care
4:10
is you know is the care that is given to the
4:13
children and the children only receive good enough
4:15
care if the foster carers feel good enough about
4:18
what they do um and we have been through a lot
4:22
and sarah you you set up foster wiki yep which
4:27
i think has probably had one of the the most
4:29
profound effects on on on foster care not only
4:34
because you set it up for foster carers so that
4:36
we we would we would have somewhere to go so
4:40
that we didn't know how it would be or what it
4:42
would be like it just i just knew there was a
4:44
gap and we needed it and uh it's honestly expected
4:48
it's exceeded every expectation i possibly had
4:52
yeah and it's our go -to um it's my go -to when
4:55
i'm writing my books i think i just need to to
4:58
find out what what what we need to do here so
5:02
I go straight to foster wiki and I do a search
5:04
and I find the answer because you have pulled
5:07
in not only the legal you pulled in all the guidelines
5:10
and you've you give great advice and and I think
5:13
you know thank you for that and thank you for
5:16
such profound impact on on how we foster and
5:21
I also know that a lot of professionals look
5:24
you up as well when they want to know because
5:26
they don't know it all either because there's
5:29
so much to know so they don't know it from our
5:33
perspective as well which i think is terribly
5:34
important the children's perspective the care
5:38
leavers perspective i'm not saying we speak for
5:40
them but i'm saying that all these perspectives
5:42
are so vitally important They are, and that's
5:46
why we're here. And thank you for inviting me
5:50
to join you on this podcast, Jenny. I was, as
5:54
always, when you ask me anything, my first response
5:57
is, oh, God, what's she getting me into? And
6:00
I've got you into a few things over the years.
6:04
You really have. But I was excited because foster
6:10
care... you know, every foster carer will tell
6:13
you is a little bit, it's a bit of a murky world,
6:17
isn't it? We're not even sure what it is. And
6:21
I think this is an opportunity for me to ask
6:23
you particularly, what is foster care? What is
6:29
the work we do? Because there are so many assumptions
6:32
and misrepresentations. Let's get that straight.
6:38
Yeah, yeah. And then we can unravel it bit by
6:43
bit as we go on. So, Sarah, in your words, with
6:47
all your experience, can you sum up what is foster
6:52
care? I wasn't expecting that one. Well, what
7:01
is foster care? The official definition, you
7:04
know, I like a definition. What is it? It's providing
7:08
a safe, stable and caring home for a child who
7:11
cannot live with their birth family. And it's
7:14
imprinted across my forehead. But I think that
7:17
it's so much more than that. And I think also,
7:21
for me, it's about the fact that we are looking
7:25
after other people's children who, for one reason
7:29
or another, can't care for the children themselves
7:31
at that time. And I think we must never lose
7:34
sight of that because... You know, we mustn't
7:38
demonize the children, children's parents. They
7:42
were often those children once themselves. And
7:45
they were also there in socioeconomic. Most of
7:49
them are in socioeconomic difficult, you know,
7:54
difficult areas where that impacts them greatly.
7:57
And also never, ever underestimate the power
8:00
of intergenerational trauma. So it's it is. chaotic
8:05
at times. There's no doubt about it. We'd like
8:07
to think that we start bringing a little more
8:10
sense to the chaos. But basically, we look after
8:13
other people's children while they can't. What
8:16
is it? What is it? It should be what it is and
8:23
what it should be. I think there's a bit of a
8:25
gap. And I think that's the kind of stuff we're
8:27
going to be unraveling over the next few weeks,
8:29
the big stuff and how we can help make it a lot
8:33
better than it is. Well, that's pretty good because
8:36
that was an off -the -cuff question, but it's
8:38
why we're here. It's why we're here. It's our
8:43
purpose. And our purpose is to really delve into
8:46
what is foster care. It's providing us, as you
8:50
say, providing a safe, stable and caring home
8:53
for a child who cannot live with their birth
8:55
family. Now, that's what it says. That sounds
8:57
like a brochure. What it actually is, it's chaos.
9:02
It's a rule. It's, yeah, visceral. It's very,
9:06
very real. When you feel that, sometimes I feel
9:09
when you read those, you know, the lovely things
9:13
about reflective practice, about relational work,
9:18
about being trauma informed and the, you know,
9:22
flowery language we do tend to get around that,
9:25
especially by those who don't do. not that there's
9:29
anything wrong with that but i think that what
9:31
happens with me i often feel oh come on you know
9:34
it's it's more urgent it's more real it's more
9:38
front line it's more in the moment it's now it's
9:42
so urgent the work is urgent and i think that
9:47
that can get missed a lot in the policy the procedure
9:50
the you know the the big consultant meetings
9:53
and stuff i think they I think foster care itself
9:57
can get lost. I think you're absolutely right.
10:00
And I was just, as you were saying that, Sarah,
10:02
I was just smiling away at myself, you know,
10:06
part insanity. But, you know, when you talk about
10:09
urgent, it's that what happens in our homes,
10:13
and that is where foster care practice takes
10:16
place, in our homes. What happens on a Friday
10:20
night, something big happens. By the time...
10:26
By the time it is processed, recorded, meetings
10:30
planned, other meetings planned, the other meeting
10:35
planned, and no one's looked at the paperwork,
10:37
whatever that situation is, is either escalated
10:41
beyond control or passed. Yes, absolutely. As
10:45
a foster carer, you're living the reality in
10:48
a system. that has a very little sense. Yeah,
10:51
there lies the gaps. There lies the gaps. That's
10:53
the gap. I suppose that was one of the gaps that
10:55
Foster Wiki occupies. Yeah. I don't want this
11:00
to be a sales job for Foster Wiki, but it is
11:04
an integral part of what I do and why I've done
11:07
it. And it was about filling those gaps. Yeah.
11:11
And I think it's very important that we make
11:14
it very clear to everyone from the beginning
11:16
that you are the one that reads all the documents.
11:21
So you don't have to. I don't have to. And I
11:24
am so grateful of that. I bet you are. Because
11:29
I would be asleep. Every five minutes. What's
11:33
that policy about that? What's that data about
11:35
that? I know, constantly. I'm lazy. I think she'll
11:40
know. Yeah, you do. You're like the encyclopedia.
11:45
Yes, I do. You know what? I can walk into the
11:48
kitchen and forget why I've gone in there. This
11:51
is true, isn't it? You ask me anything about
11:53
fostering. Yeah. Well, we could do a mastermind
11:57
slot with you. It could be a pub quiz for social
12:02
care. We could all go to a pub. I know if I was
12:05
on your team, we would smash it. Absolutely.
12:09
What is foster care? Who are we? What do we do?
12:14
And I think that, you know, despite all the professional
12:18
practice that goes on, foster care is what happens
12:22
in the home. What happens in the home. is very
12:28
different to what happens in meetings so that
12:31
that's the first the first bit but thank you
12:35
for that and it's um yeah it's it's about creating
12:39
a sense of love i can't say that i've loved all
12:42
the children i've looked after i think love is
12:45
a um it's an interesting that you should say
12:48
that and i've always said this love isn't something
12:51
you can prescribe or purchase or order even you
12:54
have to um love grows It's an organic thing that
12:59
is a result of. And also, you can't overpower
13:03
children with love when they first come into
13:05
your house. That's not appropriate. You might
13:08
overpower them with a deep sense of nurturing
13:11
and connection and stuff like that. But to start
13:14
banding the love around, love word around, I
13:16
think that just should happen organically. It's
13:19
a big question. But we do give love. We give
13:23
all of our heart. I don't think every carer does.
13:26
I think that one of the things we don't do, you
13:30
and I, is defend our workforce 100 % every single
13:34
person. There are always people out there who
13:37
aren't doing it for the right reasons. But if
13:41
you are doing it for the right reasons, again,
13:44
it's visceral, isn't it? It's a sort of... You
13:47
know, they've got all the words of Bandy around,
13:49
you know, I'm I do it because it's rewarding.
13:52
I do it because it's challenging. You can't.
13:54
It's far too big to put into those narrow narratives.
14:01
It's huge. And as somebody who grew up in the
14:04
care system myself, the word love has many, many,
14:08
many different meanings. I prefer. But that's
14:14
my. household so if we've got well we got 43
14:18
000 children in care you know um we got there
14:22
was you know a huge amount of um households you
14:27
know we've got who was it 43 000 foster families
14:30
i just looked at the data 43 000 people all time
14:34
doing it differently and those children would
14:36
travel through several of those households And
14:40
I'm very cautious about telling any child that
14:44
I love them. But I think what I'd like to start
14:48
from with foster care is that we do right by
14:52
them, no matter what. Yeah, I like that. We do
14:55
right by them. We love them. And there are days
14:58
when you really can't feel that love because
15:01
we're human. So we're a bunch of humans who step
15:04
up. to to foster and you know and let's go let's
15:09
look at let's look at the history a little bit
15:11
of of of foster care because it's victorian isn't
15:15
it i did the workhouse didn't it the workhouses
15:17
you know my doctor mother who if anyone's read
15:20
my this is your area so you're good at this bit
15:22
history yeah well i know i know well i know I
15:26
know how the institutions have evolved. So we
15:31
had the workhouses pre -war. Think of the Victorians.
15:38
Think of what happened to our children. There
15:41
was no care. People were put into workhouses
15:43
or boarded out. The mill owners also took the
15:49
youngest child or one or two of the children
15:51
from their workers to be fostered out. So it
15:54
freed the... the workers up to work harder. And,
15:58
you know, there were no checks then of where
16:00
the children were going. And then you had, you
16:04
know, you think of Charles Dickens, you think
16:07
of Oliver Twist, you know, that's what happened
16:09
to children. Well, Bacon was one of the original
16:11
child traffickers, wasn't he? Exactly. It's still
16:15
going on today. How many of those children were
16:18
delivering laudanum? What was it called? Opium.
16:21
And also being sexually exploited. And no one
16:25
batted an eyelid because children without families
16:30
are perceived of a lesser value. Yeah. That's
16:33
a fact. And then we kind of had the war. That
16:37
cleared out a lot of cobwebs, didn't it, within
16:39
child protection? Of course, we did have foster
16:42
care in the war. And actually, that was called
16:45
the evacuation, the evacuee. And also, that's
16:50
a really interesting one, because we are the
16:53
generation of evacuees. And I think that the
16:56
trauma that... caused was anyway i digress but
17:00
i always find that rather interesting they were
17:01
sort of unofficially fostered out to anybody
17:03
who just stepped into the village hall but yeah
17:06
you know it's massive isn't it you know it's
17:11
huge it's huge it has a social history that is
17:15
i think really important to remember how we got
17:18
all the regulations and the policy and stuff
17:20
stuff started coming in That started out in the
17:23
1950s, I suppose. You get the 1960s. And I have
17:28
this, I equate also contemporary foster care,
17:33
modern foster care to architecture, to city planning.
17:37
So you used to have that in the 50s and 60s,
17:39
early 60s. You had family offices. You had places
17:44
within the community where, you know, social
17:46
workers, a friendly social worker that might
17:48
not be friendly. That's just me. nostalgic but
17:51
you know families used to go to these places
17:54
for help then when post post -war you had the
17:59
the urbanization the plant the the the the the
18:02
town planning you had that welling garden city
18:05
you had milton keynes you had these new towns
18:08
which had been designed around human needs and
18:11
like now where they plop them on any field that
18:12
they can find So you had this sort of social
18:16
engineering. And within that, you had these family
18:19
offices, these little departments pulled into
18:22
the larger town area or the cities. With that
18:27
came high rises, obviously because they're trying
18:29
to make more space. So you built up instead of
18:33
out. With the high rises came hierarchy. So then
18:38
you got further and further and further away.
18:42
from the very people that you were looking after.
18:44
So the people at the top of these offices, the
18:47
management, were the eyes looking down on the
18:51
poor, frightened, failing families, because that's
18:54
how a family feels when they're involved with
18:57
children's care. So you've got many factors that
19:02
have created what we've got. And then you kind
19:04
of, then you had... social work you had foster
19:07
care and then you had uh probably in the night
19:09
in the 80s when you look back at Thatcherism
19:12
and you had neoliberalism and you had the marketization
19:15
of of services which were services and you had
19:19
you know you had uh social workers and perhaps
19:22
their partners might have been in the business
19:24
somehow realizing that they could do And then
19:29
it grew and it grew and it grew and it became,
19:31
you know, now we have a huge privatisation of
19:37
children's social care. So what is fostering?
19:40
Fostering is something caught up in a much bigger
19:44
socio -political landscape that most foster carers
19:48
who recruit, who are recruited, you know, at
19:52
the bottom level, have no idea about. Absolutely.
19:57
I mean, that's a huge thing, how disconnected
19:59
it all is, actually. There's nothing that's really
20:02
joined up. And I think there is that sense that
20:05
foster carers don't need to know. I think there's
20:09
that kind of sense of the diminishing of the
20:12
role into. Yeah, it's a fairly disposable. It
20:16
has been up until now, despite the policies and
20:19
the procedures and all the things that have caught
20:21
up with fostering, rightly so, because of safeguarding,
20:24
the actual. status of carers has rather remained
20:28
that sort of old fashioned woman in the shoe,
20:32
you know, taking a whole head on one side. You're
20:34
so good. I couldn't do that with the saints or
20:36
sinners. It's a very it's a very disconnected,
20:39
chaotic. job is it or a role or we don't know
20:46
do we don't know is it vocation yeah yeah as
20:50
foster carers i think we have probably one of
20:52
the biggest identity crises going because you
20:55
know one minute we're told our work is essential
20:57
thank you so much and by the way we don't like
20:59
what you say you are disposable you can't have
21:03
it both ways we've got the government telling
21:06
us that in the tsds the training support and
21:10
development standards that They were brought
21:14
in to play, you know, over a decade ago that
21:18
you have to have completed by when your first
21:20
year of fostering to demonstrate our professionalism
21:24
and that we are professionals. But at the same
21:26
time, in court cases, when people are talking
21:29
about worker status and things, we're told that
21:31
you can't be classed as workers because you'd
21:35
sit watching TV and having dinner. So they give
21:39
us that identity crisis to a certain extent.
21:43
wow did he really say that unfortunately they
21:46
really did say that but um oh my god wow wow
21:51
that's just insulted me even more that's just
21:55
like really okay wow wow didn't know that i thought
22:01
i didn't know i told you that was i think it
22:03
was repeated again at the the most recent one
22:06
really So what is fostering? Sitting around,
22:12
not being paid with children. Okay, that's fine.
22:16
Wow. Who are the foster carers? So one of the
22:19
reasons then that they're finding it so hard
22:22
to recruit foster carers is perhaps attitudes
22:25
like that. Well, the identity crisis, I guess.
22:28
Yeah. You know, this is one of my key passions
22:33
is this changing the narrative. Yeah. I... I
22:39
really hope that Josh McAllister has come into
22:41
the new children's minister. Some of what he's
22:45
saying really resonates and is really very, very
22:49
positive. And I hope that we can before he moves
22:52
on to the next position as the as the seventh
22:55
minister in five years. Some of what he's saying
22:58
makes so much sense and resonates with everything
23:00
we've been saying. He wants a different demographic
23:02
to come in. He wants to he wants to. And he describes
23:10
it, I think he described it at a Labour conference
23:12
speech as chaotic. I think it was the word chaotic,
23:17
but don't hold me to it. But it was that suggestion
23:18
that foster care is a bit chaotic. But we, who
23:22
are foster carers? Well, I've met thousands over
23:25
the years and I can assure you they're not all
23:27
grannies in cardigans. in chaotic mad houses
23:31
with kids screaming and biscuits dribbling down
23:34
the front you know is this this is rather unsavory
23:37
narrative even in the public because this is
23:41
the narrative that's been pushed so much is that
23:43
foster care is somehow another it isn't something
23:46
that you do yeah it's what the other does and
23:49
it is very much a case of you know if i if i
23:54
talk to a fellow professional in my other profession
23:57
and say, have you considered being foster care?
24:00
Oh, no, I don't. I mean, they're marvellous,
24:02
aren't they? I mean, gosh, I think they're fantastic
24:06
foster carers. And wow, don't they do it? But
24:09
no, it's not for me. And a lot of that is about
24:12
narrative and having to walk into a room and
24:15
say, I'm a foster carer. Always the people that
24:18
would argue with my point here. are those are
24:21
foster carers who will say oh rubbish but they're
24:24
very proud of being carers you know well i can
24:26
absolutely i go to a a dinner party which seems
24:31
to be less so now a foster carer but uh or a
24:34
party or i go anywhere and i and people say what
24:36
do you do because that matters so much to people
24:38
doesn't it if i say I'm an author and an artist.
24:41
Oh, that's so fascinating. That's interesting.
24:44
If I start the conversation with I'm a foster
24:47
carer, they'll walk on to the nibble section
24:49
of the buffet pretty swiftly. No one is interested
24:52
because the moment you say you are a foster carer,
24:55
they think of stinky nappies, bubbling pans on
24:59
the hob and people who, you know, how are we
25:04
portrayed in TV as well? Really, really interesting.
25:08
Oh, the foster carers. People standing at the
25:10
front door, hugging. Villains always being in
25:13
the foster care system, haven't they? The psychotic.
25:18
I feel sorry for the care leavers as well because,
25:20
crikey, they get a bad rap in the TNTV programmes.
25:24
Yeah, care leavers do. pretty lazy thinking and
25:29
i think you know hopefully the work we're doing
25:31
continue to do and and our fellows in in the
25:34
sector do will change that because you know there's
25:37
a lot to fostering and there's a lot to what
25:40
we do which is why you know when we think about
25:43
who are foster carers it could be anyone anyone
25:46
and it's one of the Why this Democratic's I know
25:49
of? Well, it could be anyone, but it isn't anyone.
25:52
But it is anyone. Yeah, because of the advertising,
25:56
because of the marketing, because of the, you
25:59
know, I think one of the latest ones was, you
26:03
know, you sprinkle, putting sprinkles on cupcakes,
26:07
your every day is all the children need, you
26:09
know, and it was a... Oh, another one where you
26:13
sort of grab hold of your head and think, oh,
26:15
please, no more. And, you know, until we start
26:20
saying it, you know, people say, oh, you can't.
26:23
This is what interests me. They say, oh, you
26:26
can't say how it really is. Nobody would do it.
26:28
Well, perhaps that's false advertising. They
26:31
feel that they won't tell them the truth until
26:34
they start. And they wonder why everyone's in
26:36
trouble. But I think that. The truth is actually
26:40
beautiful about fostering. All of it. But it's
26:46
not this false narrative. No, no, it's not helping.
26:51
Those, you know, and it goes. Back to, you know,
26:54
I think in every book I write, in every post
26:57
I put out there, the frustration for us as foster
27:03
carers is that the narrative spoken about us,
27:07
the education and training designed for us, everything
27:12
about us is done by people who have never done
27:15
it. And I feel so passionately that please. do
27:22
not speak for me or for the children unless you
27:26
have worn our shoes yeah unless you understand
27:29
because it's not what you think it is and because
27:33
you get it wrong is why we're in the mess we're
27:36
in and having us having a which which the fact
27:40
that we are not even invited yeah to to being
27:44
part of that conversation is fascinating I I
27:48
find it you know we'll move on to a different
27:50
part in a minute but I think what I find really
27:52
fascinating I know that we've talked about this
27:54
is when you google foster care And you get all
27:57
these, you know, fancy schmancy websites with
28:00
laughing children blowing dandelions. Oh, it's
28:04
a sea of saniness. Yeah. You know, all the Getty
28:07
images. If you look at, you know, and all the
28:11
warder ceremonies, you know, I think it's ward
28:14
season, you know, lots of people receiving wards.
28:17
What you'll see is, you know, them and us. You'll
28:20
see the management. You'll see the people who
28:23
run the fostering organisations. But where the
28:26
hell are the foster carers at? Where are they?
28:29
And you'll see people collecting awards for great
28:32
this and great that. But where are the foster
28:34
carers that do the work? That's a much deeper
28:36
conversation in which, and again, complex, so
28:40
complex in that. Where are the foster carers?
28:44
They're silenced, a lot of them. They are afraid
28:49
to speak out because we know what a vulnerable
28:52
position we're in. I mean, 86 % of carers in
28:57
our survey... said that the fear of allegations
29:00
impacts their everyday fostering in some way
29:03
or another. Wow. And I want to tell the carers
29:07
that are listening to this as well, we aren't
29:09
going to skirt around the issues. We will come
29:12
to those bigger issues that really affect them
29:14
from day to day as well, because from my point
29:18
of view, we are concentrating on the bigger picture,
29:21
but to not... do that for our carers would be
29:27
to miss a huge you know opportunity to say we
29:31
you're heard yeah your voice i think the other
29:34
problem is everything being designed by um social
29:40
work profession including our support they miss
29:44
completely miss what support of a foster carer
29:48
is it's not a cup of tea and bingo it's not you
29:52
know it's not an innocuous organization run by
29:55
social workers with sort of phone lines it's
29:58
again it's very visceral it's very front line
30:01
it's very deep but it's also the age -old thing
30:05
of us actually being included in team around
30:07
the child and being able to acquire the services
30:10
that the child needs the services that we need
30:14
um it's You know, who are the foster carers?
30:18
They are the people that will need all those
30:20
services. And they are also so diverse. Look
30:25
at our executive team and our wider team. We
30:29
have top flight pediatricians on there. We've
30:32
got a veterinary surgeon. We have bestselling
30:35
authors like yourself. We have charity founders,
30:39
your Spark Sisterhood, Sarah Livingston from
30:42
Replenish Culture. We have... the most incredible
30:46
team of professionals. And I think one of the
30:49
themes I'd like through our podcast is that who
30:54
are the foster carers, but more like, can we
30:57
excite others to become foster carers? Can we
31:02
say to them, actually, this is what it's about.
31:07
There is great support available out there. We
31:10
can support you. What, who? Can we do enough
31:15
on our podcast to excite a whole new demographic
31:18
of people to foster? Possibly we could. I think
31:22
we've got our reach in other areas through the
31:27
work I do with my books and through we have the
31:31
reach. I think until now, you and I and many
31:35
of our fellow foster carers who meet up and discuss
31:38
what we do haven't felt that we wanted. to promote
31:43
fostering because we didn't know quite what we
31:46
were promoting. We can't guarantee support. We
31:49
can't guarantee anything. But what I will say
31:54
is that if we can do that, Sarah, through our
32:00
podcast, if we help recruit to this sector more
32:05
foster carers, if we can help do that by... Offering
32:11
support around, you know, what is training? What
32:14
is education? Education first, please. You need
32:18
to know what you're doing. Education, support,
32:21
all the same side of the... We know collectively
32:25
with all our fellow foster carers missing, we
32:30
know what is needed and we need more foster carers.
32:37
There is no... No way we can deny that. And it
32:41
would give me huge, great pleasure to know that
32:44
in our own little way that we can help recruit
32:47
more foster carers. What are we recruiting them
32:50
to? That's the bit we need to iron out. This
32:53
is the reason that 70 % of foster carers are
32:57
saying we will not recommend fostering because
33:00
it's... not just a question of who are we what
33:04
are we recruiting them to it's a question of
33:08
what are we recruiting them to what it's become
33:11
because I've seen a real decline in everything
33:18
in culture in relationships in any kind of humanness
33:25
in the foster care sector They've lost the humanity
33:30
along the way somewhere. And I think without
33:32
that humanity, how can we call it care? Because
33:36
care isn't just about caring for the children.
33:39
If you don't care about those who care for them,
33:43
it's, well, there will be no foster care. You
33:46
know, it's vital. Yeah, we have to care with
33:50
compassion and you have to care about your carers
33:52
with utter compassion because there's, you know,
33:54
they talk about empathy. And one of the things
33:57
we are asked when we become foster carers is
33:59
they want to judge our empathy, engage our empathy,
34:03
which I think, well, you know, don't most groomers
34:05
have empathy? That's how they know how to groom.
34:08
But what we are lacking. is the compassion and
34:12
you can feel compassion you can smell compassion
34:14
and I think a lot of the compassion is scared
34:16
to come out these days because of the litigation
34:18
culture because of you know the insurance culture
34:22
and I think it we're at a very critical stage
34:25
in the foster care where someone has to put their
34:29
foot over the line and say right come with me
34:32
follow me because we're going to rewrite this
34:34
we're going to say what is is that your insurance
34:38
your your litigate your your fear of litigation
34:41
your fear of being perceived as not a good professional
34:44
i'm talking to the official professionals here
34:47
not the foster carers because we're not really
34:50
officially anything is that we um you know come
34:53
on Yeah, I think there is a there's a sort of
34:58
move towards that. Again, going back to Josh
35:00
McAllister, you know, he wants to put love and
35:02
belonging at the centre of it all. I mean, who
35:05
can argue with that? But what I would argue with
35:08
is the is the way one presumes that that will
35:11
happen. And I think we cannot and we cannot forget
35:16
that in order to create the conditions for love
35:20
and belonging. You have to find the people that
35:24
want to educate themselves, are willing to work
35:28
on, you know, trauma responsive. proper qualifications,
35:34
people who are willing to learn more and professionally
35:40
develop. But people are willing to start with
35:43
a certain level of education because you can't
35:45
just start carers on a first aid certificate.
35:49
So we have to look at the bigger picture. You
35:52
know, I know that I've heard of that last week.
35:55
No way. Yeah, we have to. The love and belonging
35:59
is the end result. Our mission here is to, how
36:04
do we get there? How do we get there? We don't
36:08
just go, oh, come in. We have belonging here.
36:11
We have love. You know, and a lot of children
36:15
will back that away anyway. They don't want to
36:18
be with you. And we cannot prescribe it. We cannot
36:22
say that's what, you cannot say that's what we
36:27
are going to do in care. You have to say, what?
36:31
conditions are we going to create so that child
36:35
children will feel they belong and they are loved
36:38
yes bravo that's my speech for the day no i love
36:42
it i've run out now that's it i'm all that's
36:44
it you're gonna have a lie down i know that the
36:48
the yeah i think until we it all has to work
36:52
together you can't keep picking off one or the
36:55
other we have to work fluidly together that's
36:59
professions and everybody else i can we do that
37:03
is it possible i struggle to see that ever happening
37:05
because you know what interesting thing is that
37:08
doesn't cost any money i know throwing money
37:12
at it isn't the only solution i'm not saying
37:16
you don't need more money of course whole sector
37:18
needs more money but it's almost as though we
37:20
get to that point where all people do is say
37:23
oh we can't you know we're not got enough money
37:25
we're not got enough money changing a culture
37:27
changing a mindset bringing humanity and compassion
37:30
back into what we do it's free well I worry when
37:35
organizations and you know governmental organizations
37:39
say we need more resources we need more money
37:43
I'm thinking well look love you know basically
37:44
what are you spending the last lot on yeah you
37:48
know the bit of me the bit of me is going well
37:50
you know We all have to live within our means.
37:55
That's what we do. We have to do. So what are
37:57
those means? And perhaps we need to, I hate it
38:02
when people say we need to, and I just heard
38:04
myself say that because we need to give you a
38:06
solution, doesn't it? I guess that we can't do
38:12
this on our own. None of us can. I have worked
38:16
with and met so many social workers, some I never
38:20
want to see again in my life, and some I value
38:24
as good friends now because they have seen what
38:29
we see. I see social workers struggling with
38:34
ridiculous caseloads that seem to spend all their
38:39
time writing up reports for court hearings. You
38:44
know, we're not cherishing the people that...
38:48
No, and we can only help if they let us in. Yeah.
38:53
This has been the big problem, hasn't it? Yeah.
38:55
We've taken a long time to get inside the tent.
38:59
I'd say that we are pretty much inside the tent.
39:01
You've unzipped it, haven't you? You've unzipped
39:05
the tent, haven't you? We have unzipped the tent
39:07
and we're in there, but we're not at the main
39:08
table yet. Quite, but I think it's going to happen.
39:13
Because we are sitting there persistently saying
39:17
we can help. And I think at some point, somebody
39:22
has to say, it's got really bad. Is it worth
39:26
a try? Yeah, let's hope so. Because these children
39:29
are worth it. Because I know that you and I and
39:37
the people around us that work with us, we don't
39:41
do this alone. We've all, you know, we have been
39:45
threatened. We have had serious threats made
39:48
against our physical and financial well -being.
39:51
We have been ignored. We have been brutalised.
39:55
We have been lied about. We have, you know, all
39:58
we're doing is trying to look after children.
40:00
It's a really, really busy journey. But it has
40:03
been so difficult, actually. Pardon? the wiring
40:09
we're kind of like well if it's so difficult
40:12
it's got to be worth it and if it's so difficult
40:14
why is it so difficult to do the right thing
40:17
every time I fall down I get up stronger and
40:20
yet when I fall down I don't think I'm going
40:22
to get up at all I mean you know that you know
40:25
that more than anybody and other dear friends
40:28
that I I do the whole I'm giving it all up I
40:32
can't do it anymore and it's usually if I've
40:34
been threatened by sometimes by the IFA so you're
40:38
threatening a really big financial model by trying
40:41
to put the children first. Sometimes I just get
40:47
up and I think that's it. I'm down and out. But
40:50
somehow, a few hours later, I'm back up and even
40:54
more determined than before. But it has been
40:57
a really, really difficult bumpy journey, hasn't
41:00
it? Really difficult. I've never known anything
41:02
like it, Sarah. Me neither. I've moved. my career
41:06
well i say my career i've been careering around
41:09
for years in various roles uh for many years
41:14
um but this is like nothing else i've ever known
41:20
before and it's it's made me quite sad on occasions
41:25
that trying to look after children and do right
41:29
by them is such hard work and i was yeah And
41:33
that resonates so much, I would say, for all
41:36
those listening across the foster care workforce
41:39
itself. It resonates with so, so many carers.
41:42
What we've what we've suffered or suffered, but
41:46
what we've encountered on our whole journey of
41:48
trying to reform and help and change foster care
41:52
for the children. I think that actually in the
41:56
microcosms around the country, many of those
41:59
foster carers. have that exact would describe
42:01
it in exactly the same way there'll be many listening
42:04
usually not foster carers saying oh gosh what
42:07
an exaggeration or there'll be some foster carers
42:10
who might even listen and go oh what's she talking
42:12
about but there'll be enormous number listening
42:15
nodding their heads yeah so to why we do this
42:20
it's not it's not for the pay it's not for notoriety
42:27
everyone i know that is still hanging on by their
42:30
fingertips and doing this for the children the
42:33
children and as someone really yeah who was in
42:38
care you know i didn't expect to come back into
42:41
care but you know those children are worth it
42:47
it's got to be worth the fight and look at all
42:50
those foster carers out there that actually And
42:53
that's the one thing that annoys me when a carer
42:56
says to me, I said to my social worker, blah,
42:58
blah, blah. Well, you don't have to do it, but
43:01
that's not what we want to hear. We want to hear,
43:05
it's amazing that you do do it and we need to
43:07
nurture and treasure you to keep on doing it.
43:10
But we cannot, cannot, cannot keep hearing the
43:14
same things from foster carers year on year on
43:17
year without doing something about it. And I
43:20
think this podcast is going to... We've said
43:23
we want to open the door and leave it open now.
43:26
We're going to bring some of the big picture
43:30
stuff to not so much to, first of all, we want
43:35
to be helpful partners to the whole sector, but
43:37
we're going to bring this big picture so that
43:40
we can unravel why it isn't working. What's stopping
43:43
it? And what could the future really look like
43:46
if it did work? It's got to work. Yeah. It's
43:52
got to work. Some great guests coming. And this
43:55
is what I was going to, because you've been very
43:56
busy in the background. I've been wafting around
43:59
with, you know, book launches and things. You've
44:01
been doing the work as usual. And that is, who's
44:04
coming on our show? Who's coming on? We've got,
44:07
people can look them up. I've got, we've got
44:10
Dr. Mina Youngbear. Because she's very quiet
44:14
and shy, isn't she? Very, very quiet and retiring,
44:17
shy and retiring. I hardly think we'll get a
44:19
word out of her. She's incredible. She's an incredible
44:22
force of nature that I am just honoured to call
44:25
my friend. And Joe Hanley, brilliant. I've followed
44:30
him for many years on LinkedIn. He's a social
44:32
worker. Social worker, works here at the university.
44:36
Yeah, I'm really looking for people to look him
44:39
up and see what his special areas are. And we've
44:43
got we've also got Nana Yabby Hagen, who another
44:51
force of nature. He runs the Social Worker and
44:53
the Mentor podcast, and he's manager in children's
44:57
fostering and children's services. Fantastic
45:01
career. Also. just really reflective i think
45:06
he wants to talk about working conditions for
45:08
social workers which i think it's been really
45:10
interesting and i think it might just slide off
45:13
into working conditions for all the front line
45:17
so yeah really looking forward to those wonderful
45:23
well thank you well that's just a little taster
45:25
of what's to come yeah we we're in it to to help
45:29
change we're in it to to to help you and to uh
45:34
we're always interested in in what you've got
45:37
to say yes please anybody listening and for the
45:41
very any any feedback it's really important all
45:45
the feedback is important to us even the positive
45:48
including the positive we're here to hear that
45:51
feedback and uh yeah it's really important great
45:55
well that's it and we'll speak to you very very
45:58
soon we look forward to hearing from you so thanks
46:00
for listening to the truth on the front line
46:05
i'm louise allen and this is sarah anderson saying
46:09
goodbye