Latest / Work It Like A Mum / Sideways, Down, and Diagonal: Redefining Career Success and the Art of the Career Pivot

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Sideways, Down, and Diagonal: Redefining Career Success and the Art of the Career Pivot · Work It Like A Mum

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willits and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: I'm a working mum with over 17 years of recruitment experience and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women Job Board and Community.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: In this show, I'm honoured to be chatting with remarkable women redefining our working world across all areas of business.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, their boundaries and balance, the challenges they've faced and how they've overcome them to define their own versions of success.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Shy away from the real talk?
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: No way.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Money struggles, growth loss, boundaries and balance we cover it all.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Think of this as coffee with your mates, mixed with an inspiring TED talk sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine and make sure you cozy and get ready to get inspired and chase your boldest dreams, or just survive Mondays.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: This is the Work it Like a Mum podcast.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: They're proud to partner with the UK's most family-friendly employers across a range of professional industries.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Ready to find your perfect job?
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Search their website at investinginwomencouk to find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Now back to the show.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Work it Like a Mum podcast, where we explore the unique stories of inspiring individuals and navigating their careers and personal lives.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Today, I'm thrilled to welcome Jodie Mason from Sangabam.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: She is a dynamic professional who has journeyed through various roles while balancing motherhood and career development.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: She is now a communications expert at Sangabam, but has explored many different roles within the organisation.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: We're going to be talking all about how she has managed career pivots gracefully and with enthusiasm.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Jodie, for joining us today.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, hi, Thanks for having me.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: No, that's all right, so talk to me.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Rewind back to the beginning, because I know that when you first joined Sangabam, you worked in their credit services department.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Before we dive into it, do you want to explain what credit services is, what they do?
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so credit services are a really important team to any business and they make sure that the business gets paid for the goods and services they provide.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: So it was a lot around supporting the branches because at that time I worked for the juicend team, supporting the branches with their customers, providing credit limit increases or decreases and making sure we collected that cash if it wasn't paid on time, and just making dynamic decisions on the spot around how much risk we might accept for a particular customer.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: And it was really about building relationships with those branches, building trust between them and the customers and having responsibility of your specific portfolio of branches and I looked after the Southwest at the time.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Wow, and that was where you were from, wasn't it?
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: I think did you say you were from Bristol before we sat here?
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: I'm from Coventry originally and I was living in Bristol before moving back to Coventry and then I joined the credit services team because a friend already worked there and she said it was a great place to work.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: So did you want to go into accounting and credit control?
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: What did you study at university?
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: I studied history and politics at university, which, you can see, really, really supported me with my.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: I can really see that laying.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: I like history.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: It's with anything, where I went to uni with a different idea of what I thought I might want to do with my life, I feel like 18 was a really young age to make that choice.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: I did that and I moved and I really enjoyed the experience of uni in living in Bristol.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: I just sort of fell into the job because it was a gateway from one I had in Bristol where it went from customer services into there, then from the accounts team I needed to move back to Coventry and my friend said what about this job?
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: And it sounded good.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: So I thought, yeah, okay, because at that time I guess you don't really make the connection between the jobs that you have form your employability.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: So I sort of felt like at that time I didn't really appreciate the significance of experience versus qualifications, because if I spent two years out of uni working in a totally different field from history and politics, what I learned is not necessarily applicable without that work experience environment.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I moved and was just doing what I enjoyed rather than trying to follow the path I'd built in my head from years prior.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: So what did you want to do then when you went to university?
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: What had been your original plan?
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: I was really interested in civil service, going into some of the public sector and supporting work in there, and I can really imagine a career in that sort of field and maybe even the MOD, which is why I went to Bristol, because obviously they've got the MOD there and they had the fast track service.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Family circumstances meant that that Coventry was where I needed to be at that time and so I did it based on my job experience and what I was enjoying at the time and just figured what will be will be and I'll work it out.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: But right now I'm enjoying this and I can see myself doing this.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: So I wasn't too married to what I thought about when I was 16, 17.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: No, yeah, and then you start earning money, don't you?
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: And then you know when you're young and you can spend it on things.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: And then, yeah, you follow where the money go, exactly.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: You can easily go on a holiday, buy some nice shoes or whatever.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: You know, whatever you're into.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: And then did you enjoy working in the credit services department?
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: It was a really, really big team.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: We had like four teams within the big department and all of them were really nice, really friendly.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: I had a supervisor called Yvonne and then there was the credit services manager called Claire, and they were both really nice, really supportive and really really great women to watch work to, because you know if you need to support, they were there and they were great to learn from.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Were there any role models to you?
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Do you look back and I think, looking back, there are role models who I feel had a more significant impact from me.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: So I think definitely my last role prior to my maternity leave with my second child, sally she was a phenomenal woman, I say was like she's not still with us.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: She is.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: She is a phenomenal woman.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: I just meant that during the time that she was my manager, even looking back at the time where I didn't realise I was learning I really am and I see some of the behaviours and strategies that I implement now are from watching how she conducted herself with me, how she conducted herself with others.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: She's just polished pristine, fantastic.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Tell me about Sally, because people listen to this and they think, gosh, she sounds amazing.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: So what was it that made her special to you and what did you try and emulate in your own life and career?
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: Sally she is.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: At that time she was the HR director for professional services.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Now she's the HR director for HPS businesses.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: So at that time she was my line manager and she didn't really have too much involvement in what I did day to day, because you can imagine that her function in HR didn't really have too much to do with workspace services, which was what the position was at the time, which for anyone listening, was basically that facilities management with bits of extra on top.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: She was supportive from a distance.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: She wasn't too interested in the day to day.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: She really trusted and empowered me to do what felt right.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: She was a big reason why the scope developed so much, because if I came to her with an idea which maybe wasn't quite in within my remit, she would say you know, go for it.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: So if I saw a gap that I thought I could fill, she would support me in filling it.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: And then you know, if I needed help that she would support me to think it through.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: But I didn't realize that's what she was doing.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: She just sort of asked questions and then I'd get there on my own and she wouldn't really need to say much of anything and situations where maybe I thought she might have stepped in or probably could have stepped in.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: She'd sort of stepped back and I wouldn't realize at the time how much that was allowing me to grow, and it's almost looking back at that time from when I first began in that role to by the time I went on my tend to leave.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: I feel that I had really grown as a professional and felt more sort of legitimate in that field, felt like I was a much better line manager by the end than I had begun, because it was my first management role and I found myself in meetings with others or in meetings with the team I managed at the time, emulating the strategies and practices that she tried on me, but without her telling me to do it.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: I just sort of thought, what would Sally do?
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: And then there I was, channeling Sally.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Do you know I've got somebody like that.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: I love, I think quite.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, she was a professional.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: She was so switched on, she was really sharp and naturally, like you, it's always nice to have some of the day that you look up to an aspiring.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: That's realistic as well, because you obviously have these role models that are in the media and you know people obviously little Taylor Swift and what she does and it's amazing, but most people that's completely unattainable.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: So it's quite nice to have these role models a lot closer to home.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah for sure.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: She was a real influence on me and had a real significant impact and I can't imagine, even sort of 10 years down the line, forgetting her, all the impact that she's had on me in my life and my career and just through.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: You know, covid was a tough time and I had a young child and she was always caring and supportive and I just never felt like she wouldn't be in my corner or that she wouldn't support me or couldn't support me.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: She was just the whole package.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Absolutely so.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: You were in credit services.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: And then, yeah, talk us through what happened next, because it sounded like it was going quite well and you were enjoying the job.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: And then what happened?
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: So my partner had been offered a position outside of Coventry and so we were going to relocate and so I gave two, three months notice because I knew I was moving away, and then I helped them recruit and trained up.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: My replacement started in a new role with a different company outside of Coventry in the Dudley area, and yeah, it was my first couple of weeks and I was thinking, oh, I feel really sick.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Must be the nerves.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: It was only after I don't know a couple of trips the toilet that it started the penny to drop.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: That maybe it wasn't just nerves and first sort of few weeks jitters but something more, and discovered I was pregnant with my first child.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: And so we were worried because, you know, I just left Sengaban.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: If I had stayed at Sengaban I would have been entitled to paternity package and enhancement to that, which is obviously a real reliever for when you're starting a family.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: I'd left this sort of comfort and support of the devil.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: I know you.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Then trusted you and you know you built that relationship.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I felt like I'd left the nest and I suddenly felt really exposed and vulnerable at a time when you already feel really vulnerable.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: It was a really really tough time and the company that I worked for I just felt like if I had told them about the pregnancy, I just didn't feel confident that I would be supported.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: And so we made the choice to return back to Coventry, which is where we had a support network which we would need for baby, and I wanted to go back to Sengaban.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: I knew that I wouldn't be entitled to the maternity package because obviously I'd left and things, and it wasn't about that.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: It was more around knowing that if you started at a new company, you're subject to the probation period, and I know that you're not supposed to let people go down to you know, protect your characteristics, such as pregnancy, but in a probation period it's if I was off, sick a lot or things like that it might be much easier to not employ me anymore.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: So I felt that, working for a place like Sengaban, I wouldn't have to worry about that element.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't need to worry about time off for ultrasounds and appointments.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't need to worry about feeling stressed and taking on additional strange or in an already difficult time because we'd have to relocate and it was an unexpected pregnancy, so there was already a lot to deal with where I didn't need to add more to my plate with an employer I didn't trust.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: I'd built that trust and felt that comfort from Sengaban.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna say they sounded like your safe place, sengaban.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I felt like you know, I liked working there.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Everybody was so nervous I know it's not just the team, it's more the company feel yeah, absolutely yeah.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: That was how I felt.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: So I was more than happy to go back.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: So I spoke to my old manager, who obviously didn't have a position because I'd just filled it.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: I was my own worst enemy.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: He did such a good job hiring.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: So she spoke to somebody else who was hiring and they'd had somebody who had actually taken a six months sabbatical.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: So that's you know.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Another way that Sengaban are really great was that there was an opportunity available because they'd given someone else the opportunity to go traveling for six months and still return to their role.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: So it was only a temporary contract for me and then I was working that temporary contract and someone else within the team was leaving.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: So I sort of said do you think that I could take over their role but continue in this role?
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: And they agreed to it, even though I was pregnant and clearly about to go on maternity leave.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: In this September I was offered a permanent contract to return to that same team and they'd already worked out part-time hours.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: So I'd already agreed that I'd return part-time the days and it really brought that's really nice for you, shaurence, if you want to work flexibly after maternity leave.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know what everyone does, but get that in place before you go to have that, because I remember when I was returning back after my first maternity leave, it's just not that.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Not knowing what you're going to be offered, not hearing about the chasing it's really stressful and it actually does taint that year.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: You know however long you have off.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was really, really worried about that and you know, because I'd gone to the office services team working on their reception, I'd already felt sort of like, oh my god, what am I going to do?
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Because I've completely deviated from the accounts experience that I was doing, after working in this team for my pregnancy and then having a year off and I would tend to leave.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: How will I be able to evidence that I could go back into that field?
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: And I was just really stressing that I would be unemployable.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I would end my temporary contract, enjoy time off of my baby, but it wouldn't be a matte leave because I would be unemployed.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: We start to think about applying for another job.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I just really worried about how I was going to do that and make it all work.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: And obviously childcare costs are so, so expensive and I'd reduced my own in potential by the change in position that I'd had.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: So I was just really vulnerable and worried and so it was really welcome news to hear that they were willing to support me again by providing a permanent contract with the reassurance of how I could make it work.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: So I really looked at nursery costs and figured out what my maximum hours were working would be without just basically handing my entire paycheck over to a nursery, because we all know and appreciate how just prohibitive it is to return to work with a certain income.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: So it was a real weight off that they did that.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Did they approach the flexible working on?
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Did you?
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: So I asked I just asked.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: I feel that it's really important in any position that you have to ask for what you want, and I asked for them to hire me in that temporary role.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: I asked for them to hire me in a permanent capacity and I asked for that in the part-time hours and then when I returned to work and my manager was leaving and his vacancy was going to be available for the manager role, I asked for that job too, and I asked for it on my terms.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: So I didn't feel like, oh well, he's permanent, so I'm going to have to be permanent.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: I sent his line manager an email who was the HR director at the time and I said do you know, I think I can do his job and I can do his job well, and I can do it well because I'm this.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: I'm that, I'm this and I'm pretty sure that I can do it within 28 hours a week.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: And I explained how I thought I could make that work, and so I was really surprised when she invited me to discuss it.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: So we talked it through more and I think she was just sort of gauging who I was, how I came across, and she decided to offer me his position as a secondment for six months and we'd see how I got on.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: So if I wasn't getting on with it, if I found that actually going from peer to manager and managing a child at home too was going to be too difficult, because my daughter at the time by then was about 18 months old.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: So you know, I think there was concerns that I would find it difficult to take that step up, manage a team and have a baby and all of the things that come with facilities management, and it was, I think, four or five buildings to look after.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: You know, you never quite know what's going to happen, I mean even in your own house.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Do you know something will happen in your own house and I'll guess we've got to get that fixed?
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: I can only imagine it's like 10 times bigger in an office.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: I made lots of concessions, you know.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: I did say that I would need to have I think I said I would work four and a half days a week and I would have Monday mornings off and I would have Friday off.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: But I would remain contactable in case of emergency.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: So if there was breakdown, if there was emergency, if there was a call out, if there was something the team needed, like sickness or something, I was always contactable for those circumstances.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: But it was not a working day in terms of I'm available for meetings or I'm available for being on site, and she supported that.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: When I felt that I needed a few extra hours to get things done, I proposed to her you know, I think I can do a bit more, but I need to work from home for that and I'll do it in the evening when my daughter's gone to sleep, because then I could still do a full day in the office, manage the team, deal with contractors on site and breakdowns and other maintenance things like review and the service contracts.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: But then I could go home, pick up my daughter, have dinner with her and then when my partner took her upstairs for bath and bed, I would log back on and I do another couple of hours of work and I would use that to do the more administrational side.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: So that was how I pitched it.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: You know, my office time was for face to face things that can't be done remote.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: My administration time was the evening, catching up on emails, catching up on reviewing contracts, and again she sat and thought about it and she said, all right, we'll try it.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: And then our next catch up, she said how's it working for you?
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: And I said it's working great for me, how's it working for you?
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Just going fine.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: I've not heard any different.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: So we just kept it like that.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: And then she retired a few months after and then that was when I started reporting to Sally.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: So the exact same, but she was equally supportive, but then obviously did all of the other fantastic things that she had.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: But, to be fair, my previous manager before that I didn't really have too much opportunity to do the mentoring because I was so busy finding my feet, but she provided so much support in terms of accessing that opportunity.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: So again, another fantastic female manager that I had.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: She was the one who said yes, yes, yes, yes, and she made a management role available to me, she made flexible working available to me and she made it not a choice between being at the office all the time constantly or having time with my daughter.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: So I still managed to go to drama tops on a Monday morning with my daughter and do the groups, and on a Friday I would take us to a men and I was.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: It was obviously tough.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to say it was the best of both, because it's really difficult to juggle both and at times I was going to say because I work in the evenings and it does sound good, but then it is also quite tiring and I don't know if you feel like that and this is me and that's completely on me, but you know you'd be.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: I'll be working till like nine o'clock and then it's quite hard to switch off to that, have that hour switch off, and it's difficult.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: But I think that isn't, it's the trade off, isn't it?
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: I think with anything, if you're, if you've got a busy role and you enjoy your job, it's that if you want that time with your child after school, whatever which is minor at school now, isn't that working in the evening?
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: You've got to make the choice that's right for you.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: There's no one size fits all.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: For many, that Monday to Friday is what works, and for others, you know, not returning to work or returning to work on a review basis, like drawing school hours, is what works.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: But for me I wanted that job, I wanted that opportunity.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: I felt like I'd gone off track, and so this was a way to sort of get back on.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: I was going to find a way, and this was going to give me exposure management opportunity.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: It was going to give me an opportunity to increase my earning potential, and by allowing me to do it in such a way that I still had time with my daughter meant that I still felt like I was able to do things with that, and I didn't have to increase nursery costs because she let me change my hours and increase them by working in the evening.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: So my income increased and I didn't have to hand it over to a provider immediately Because I hadn't.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: So there was a lot, a lot that she provided me access to simply by saying we'll try it.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: So she had an open mind, she believed in me, and none of that would have happened.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: You know, she was never going to just walk past me on reception one day and say, hey, do you want to manage a job?
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Part time hour Always going to be something that I had to sell.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: So again, really, really recommend if you've got something that you think you could try, what's the harm in asking or seeing how it could go?
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: It might not work out and I always had that reassurance that I could just step right back into what was working for me previously and I never had to do that, thankfully, but it was nice to know that that option was there.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: So how did you all change when Covid hit?
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Because obviously you've been looking after offices and then I get the offices a lot that became deserted.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Did it get quiet, sir, or no?
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: So a lot of production shut down from March to protect everyone and keep them safe, and there was an immediate transition to home working for office-based staff too.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: And we're you office classed as office-based.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and many were on furlough too because there wasn't much to support.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: So if production is shut down, then there isn't as many administrational things to do that an office person might support, so there was just less people working anyway.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: So then you know, a building still has to be locked after during that time and certain essential activities still need to continue.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: And there was things around, you know, shutting down service contracts, like we had catering, on-site cleaning, on-site security services, you know been pickups, other stuff and maintenance that needed to be managed.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: So I wasn't furloughed, but my daughter's nursery had closed, as had all providers at that time, and my partner also wasn't furloughed, so we were finding it really tough.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: But he was in the category of working from home on a permanent basis, so he was looking after her whilst I had to go to the office for essential activity, but then I would return home and work from home, from there.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: So the office was empty because nobody was in there working.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: So I was never unnecessarily exposed to any risk and plus, then my job was preparing the transition for safe working when it was safe to do so.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Actually I was saying, but it was quite within a game with mental lens, you having to like, plan all that.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a lot of prep work that went in that.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: So you know we had to reconsider the risk assessments of the site through the COVID lens.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: You know the introduction of one way systems, the implementation of signage, track and trace, the requirements, all of the things around visitor management policies.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: If we would manage visitors.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: You know guides for people returning to the office, how to use it safely.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: So we're talking training videos and induction videos of what's expected of people.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: And we did a refurb whilst the office was closed, which would then have to be managed in terms of two meter distancing.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: So we had to look at what offices would, what desks would function, what the maximum meeting room capacity is to allow safe distancing, because the emphasis always been on well being and safety.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: That's really, really important to Sangerband.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: So my role really took off with COVID, because I needed to suddenly do this and there was not like there was somebody in a position to do all of that, for COVID took on that role.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: We then sort of downsized office space because people were happy working from home and we introduced a blanket attitude to hybrid working.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: You know everyone was welcome to do it.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: The office would be open but you are welcome to work from home.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: So then it was the responsibility of closing down some spaces.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: And then we had additional offices within the area which weren't previously my responsibility.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: But they said, what you've done over there, is there a chance you could do it over here and here?
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: So I said, sure, I did the same thing again and introduced, helped introduce the new ways of working.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: And there wasn't somebody who was responsible for homework and before that because it wasn't sort of normal practice but all of a sudden we had people working from home and we were conscious that they were working from uncomfortable work spaces Maybe they're on their sofa and again there was that gap that I talked about earlier and I said to my boss I think I can sort that out.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: So I spoke to existing suppliers of office furniture and talked to them about a homework and provision, set up the process of how we might do that and then implemented that for whoever so not even just the people that used to work from the office.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: I managed, but it became available to everybody.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: It was a big change and then it just really really expanded, which is how it turned from sort of office services to workspace services and I really, really enjoyed the challenge and I was suddenly talking to a lot more people and I had a lot more exposure than I had previously, making more connections, and felt that I transitioned from newbie at this role and trying to feel it out to I don't know let's ask Jodie like I was somebody that people asked about things, so it was a really I look back on it fondly that work time, not so much the whole lockdown period, yeah yeah, it was nice to feel like I was somebody who was helping, exactly.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: So you were doing that.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: And then what did you feel pregnant again and gone on maternity leave Is that when you decided to go back to a different role.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, so my second pregnancy we planned and we felt like it was a tough choice.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Again, it is not a choice anybody ever gave to me, but it was almost like an implied choice from expectations, because I was at a point in my career where things had grown and I'd been promoted and had more responsibility and again increased my own in potential.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: But we were ready to expand our family too, and so I knew that taking time out at this time it was sort of like taking the wind out from under the winks and that's what it sort of felt like I was going to do to myself.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: But also we weren't prepared to delay.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: It's difficult isn't it?
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people feel like this whether it's their first, their second or third, you feel like you're getting that momentum in your career, you know, and then it just sort of coincides with the point where a lot of women start thinking about having children, and then you have the one, and then you're conscious about the gap, then you want to leave it between your first and your second, or your second and your third, and it's like what are you going to do about that momentum and how do you keep it going?
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Do you keep it going?
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: And it's the big thing, isn't it?
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I really, really felt like this is not the right time to lose momentum.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: What if I come back and I'm obsolete?
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: What if?
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: That was what was running through my mind.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: But ultimately we decided that we were trying.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Then I'll pregnant like immediately, which is great news, but also it was I maybe anticipated that it wouldn't be quite a sudden, so it came right at the time where it was peak of momentum.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, but had my pregnancy went really well.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: I had a couple of complications during pregnancy, such as gestational diabetes, which meant like additional appointments and things like that, and I was always really supported and COVID was still, because it was 2021 that I was due, so COVID was still very much my consideration.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: So I never felt like being pregnant put me in a more vulnerable risk category and in my position.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: You might have thought that I'd have to be on site every day anyway, but you know I wasn't.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: It was always around safety and what was right and supporting my pregnancy.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: So it was again a really supportive time and I felt safe, which was really great.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: And when I went on maternity leave, yeah, it was a great maternity leave and I had the enhanced maternity package because I hadn't quit this time and I knew I was going to return to Sangerban, but you know, I didn't have that feeling of, oh, I'm going to go somewhere.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: I really knew that I was going to stay.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was great to have that reassurance and have the additional money to help that period feel smoother.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, when it was time for me to start returning, I did feel like that time offered give me time to reflect, and I felt like I was ready for a different challenge and I was ready, with two kids, to maybe look away from people management and look at something else.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: And I was thinking about transferable skills and I spent a lot of time looking at the careers website and looking at positions.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Whilst I was on maternity leave, sally received her promotion and she moved away from being a HR director for professional services and moved on to HPS business, which was great for her.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: So I had a new line manager and so I discussed with her the potential for, you know, changing roles, and she talked about the ways to do that.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: And she talked about the raise your hand function, talked to me about the potential challenges, starting in a new field and transferable skills, and she was someone to talk to and bounce the ideas off.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: And she talked to me about a few available roles that she was aware of.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: But there was something about the comms team, there was something about a role within this team.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: That just just give you a lot of feeling, because there was a few jobs that I looked at that looked really good.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: But I feel like when you know really what's the raise your hand function?
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: So that's something we have internally which supports internal mobility.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: So if you are feeling like you're ready for something new, and whether that's something in a transferable department so not necessarily linear, but the group is so big you could do something more linear you go to the internal careers page and then you can take to raise your hand and you just basically flag that you're ready for something new and you can put specifically what you have in mind.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: So you know for, say, it was a HR advisor, you might be ready for a HR manager opportunity or something like that.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: So you would put that that's what you're interested in.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: And then the HR teams have mobility meetings every month and when they know they've got vacancies coming up it might be in all sorts of different brands or all across the different regions you, they know that so and so has flagged they're ready for that opportunity.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: So they get discussed in it.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: It's a way to connect you to people you might not have known about.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: So that was what I did.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: I flagged that I was ready for a new opportunity so that even things that weren't even on the careers website yet people knew about me.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Hr managers from across all the different brands knew that I was looking for something new and it would be part of that conversation for something that was suitable within my skill range and within the interests I'd said that I would have preferred.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: And that's what that function does, and it can also serve, I think, international mobility.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: So if you wanted to say that you were ready to do something, Really good idea for a big company.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Well, I think it's any size company to do that.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: It retains people, doesn't it?
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great for attention and it's great for keeping the skill set that we have and can rely on within the business.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: And obviously it's great for the business because then we keep great people and it reduces recruitment costs and other associated things and that's really key.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: So that function really, really supports that purpose.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: And there's people who've used that function and gone to Canada, gone to America.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: It's really really great.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: So I used it and it to come.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Are you internal or external?
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: Comes both.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: I do internal.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: I am supporting with some extra bits out of scope right now, but again that's because I'm kind of a gap person.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: I like to do just Will you like to raise your hand?
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: I support internal comms, which is really great because I get to work with EHS teams, which, for anyone listening, is environmental, health and safety rewards and benefits LND learning development, just so that the services they offer to colleagues they're aware of.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: You know we can make sure that key messaging and other cyclical things like army is like a band survey and the share plan that we offer People know about, understand it and I support with videos, writing scripts, going to filmings, writing email communications, supporting documents.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: It's really interesting and varied job, I suppose you've done that, though really hadn't you, because you've done all that stuff for the COVID Like you've probably done quite a lot of internal comms at the time if you hadn't called it that.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: But when you were designing all the training modules and they're getting the worksheets and the signs and things, it would have been heavily on that internal comms.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's definitely where the transferable skill set came in.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: So you know, you might think that in my previous role I was sort of locked into a facilities management sort of pathway.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: But by thinking about the ways that I have had key messages to get across, particularly through COVID, that meant that I had developed transferable skills that people had seen, they were witness to, they'd watched me do it, and so it wasn't just a case of, oh, I feel like doing this, can I try it out.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: They'd also sort of witnessed that I could do it, and so it was much easier to see and make that internal move because I had that internal sort of reputation of being somebody that can work in that way.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, I didn't design the training modules, because that goes to a different team, but I did write the scripts and, you know, provide them with the information that needs to be put in, so they do the actual videos.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: That's why a fantastic L&D team do that.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: The content was me.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: So I've gone from now I also write content, but then I'm also really heavily involved in how that then translates and signing off and then the actual distribution, which before I wasn't included in that element.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: That's a big role really.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: I mean it's a more rounded role in terms of what you do.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: It's a bit more end to end.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: If someone's listening to this and they want to make a career change, they're doing something and they want to switch to something different.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: What would be your advice to them?
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: I think, try to move away from the linear mindset, because many people view progress as up, up up, but actually it could be sideways down diagonals, because the career path that I've just described is customer service sort of sideways into accounts and then diagonal into credit services and then back down again.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: You have a really.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: I think you've heard of Wiggly Careers They've got a podcast as well but you are a very squiggly career, which is great.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: I think you know more of us have a squiggly career.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: I think it's really eclectic and I think it's really easy to feel like if you're not going up, then you can't be progressing.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: But actually all of these different experiences gave me all sorts of skills and if you start looking at yourself as a collection of skills and strengths rather than a set of qualifications or I currently do this, so I must only be able to do this if you look at yourself differently and value yourself differently and then tell people that skill set, that value in a way that they can really see it, it becomes much easier to start to try and make those connections and think about what you could do rather than maybe what you feel like you have to do.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: It's been brilliant speaking to you and learning more about Sangabang.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: I know they're a great organisation, but you have really just brought it to life what a brilliant organisation they are and how they've provided such good opportunities for you, how they've supported you and how they've developed your career.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Where can people find out more about Sangabang?
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Maybe look at the careers on offer and connect with you as well?
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, you can go to the careers website.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: And then we've also got some social media channels.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: So we've got our normal channels, but we've also got our employer branding channels, which I think is we are Sangabang UK, which Jigna looks after, and anybody who's listening might have already listened to Jigna's podcast.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: She looks after that.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Get in touch with the recruitment team or, if you wanted to, you could get in touch with me too.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Are you on LinkedIn?
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: I'm a social media hermit.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: I'm not any, so you can't get me there.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: I'm in the best way to be actually.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: Honestly, I came up with COVID because it was just so stressful and quite a gloomy time of life in general for the general public.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: I just needed to come off it.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: I needed that break and then I just never really felt the need to go back on Do you know what I really, really admire that Well done, Brilliant.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Well, we've got all the Sangabang links in the show notes.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Jodi, for chatting with me today.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: It's been such a pleasure to chat with you.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: It's been really nice to chat with you too.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to another episode of the Work it Like A Mon podcast.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe, and don't forget to share the link with a friend.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: If you're on LinkedIn, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: You can also follow my recruitment site Investing in Women on LinkedIn, facebook and Instagram.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: Until next time, keep on chasing your biggest dreams.