Latest / Rise Up Media / #30 – Grading Your Altcoin Bags, Dings & Gwumps Deployed – Rise Up After Dark – April 24, 2025

Transcript

#30 – Grading Your Altcoin Bags, Dings & Gwumps Deployed – Rise Up After Dark – April 24, 2025 · Rise Up Media

• 0:00
  Good, now revolutionaries and welcome to Rise Up After Dark.
• 0:07
  ♪ Rise up after dark ♪That's right, it is Wednesday, 7pm Central Standard Time, we're live, and wherever you are, whenever you listen, high, we hope your candles are green, and tune in sometime to the live show so that you can join us for DIYOR, BYOB, let in your hair down and apparently taking your sleeves off kind of fun.
• 0:34
  It's a great time, the only thing missing is you, you can get all the links to all our socials at the Rise Up Morning Show.
• 0:40
  Tonight we were supposed to be joined by our friend Brittany Kaiser, but she had what is maybe one of the best excuses in the history of live broadcast.
• 0:49
  She's on a flight that is delayed, laying over in Puerto Rico, and late to a meeting with the White House.
• 0:56
  So, for Brittany Kaiser, she has promised that she'll reschedule and we'll be talking to more folks at the Open Source AI Foundation soon.
• 1:04
  Will, I actually found out that all of them are going to be in Las Vegas for the Bitcoin conference.
• 1:10
  So, I said, "Hey, who else is gonna be there?" Exactly, so, you'll be our man on the street, and I'll connect you with Tiffany, who's our contact there, is a wonderful creator on TikTok, super helpful, and I just felt so bad for her'cause she was like, "I'm sorry Evan, I don't know what to do." You have to cancel her meeting at the White House, and I was like, "We are the least of your problems. Call me later, get out of here." Yeah.
• 1:33
  Okay, let's fair.
• 1:34
  But also, putting the White House over us, you're dead to me.
• 1:38
  I did tell Alex on the phone that I was severely disappointed.
• 1:43
  I will absolutely die on this.
• 1:45
  And that we will now bar the entrance.
• 1:47
  So, Rise Up Morning Show/Rise Up After Dark Show.
• 1:51
  They will ride no cats nor dogs nor horses nor cows into neither sunset nor sun rises.
• 1:58
  Wow.
• 1:59
  You know, this is not funny.
• 2:01
  I'm gonna prep this by saying that.
• 2:03
  So, I'm sorry.
• 2:04
  I'm trying my best to not laugh.
• 2:05
  Nobody else will find it funny.
• 2:08
  See about that?
• 2:09
  Shout out to my dad for this joke.
• 2:11
  I just, when you said a cow, it just immediately popped into my head.
• 2:16
  I was one time that I was trying to tell my dad some stupid knock knock joke as a child.
• 2:21
  And this, if you've ever met my father, which I don't think anybody has.
• 2:24
  Who's made your dad, dude?
• 2:26
  No one.
• 2:27
  This is one of those things that you can tuck in your back pocket.
• 2:29
  And when you, if you do ever have the fortune to meet my father, you will instantly be like,"Okay, yeah, there's that tracks." And the joke was, was, uh, uh, who was like knock knock, who's there?
• 2:40
  Cow's go.
• 2:41
  And then you say, "Cow's go who?" And I'm supposed to say, "No, cows go who?" And I said, "Cow's go." And my dad broke the joke.
• 2:48
  And he was like, "What do you mean cows go?" And I was like, "Cow's go." He's like, "What do you mean cows go?
• 2:54
  Like go what kind of go?" Like multiple bovine's perambulate go?
• 2:57
  [laughter] Perambulate?
• 3:00
  And so now I've just had in my head multiple bovine's perambulate.
• 3:05
  Every time someone says cow, it just triggers this core.
• 3:08
  I don't even think I've ever heard that word.
• 3:10
  Yeah, perambulate is a deep cut, dude.
• 3:12
  Perambulate from the vernacular, the lexicon.
• 3:15
  Say it again.
• 3:17
  So instead of like the, uh, his clarification was when I said, "Cow's go" was, "Do you mean to say multiple, multiple bovines perambulate?" Perambulate.
• 3:29
  Yeah.
• 3:30
  That's what I mean, multiple bovines perambulate.
• 3:32
  Oh wait.
• 3:34
  An FT idea.
• 3:36
  An FT idea.
• 3:37
  For the record, that's from a man who's, I think, English is his seven or eight language.
• 3:42
  So my dad's your dad.
• 3:44
  [laughter] Listen, pal.
• 3:46
  Listen, pal.
• 3:47
  [laughter] Don't you listen, pal.
• 3:49
  No, no, no.
• 3:50
  All I'm saying is, Alex's dad is quite the character.
• 3:52
  I can't wait to get him on the show one day.
• 3:53
  We're eventually going to corner him into coming on the show and talking about what he's doing.
• 3:57
  And maybe he can tell us some of the stories.
• 3:59
  I'm just proxy.
• 4:00
  I speak for him.
• 4:01
  Right.
• 4:02
  Right.
• 4:03
  He might not even exist.
• 4:04
  I might just be making all this shit up.
• 4:06
  I've seen him.
• 4:07
  I know Igor is really.
• 4:08
  I've seen him.
• 4:09
  You did?
• 4:10
  Yeah, I've seen him before.
• 4:11
  I've seen him several times.
• 4:12
  I've been on calls with him.
• 4:13
  I've talked to him.
• 4:14
  Oh, that's true.
• 4:15
  No, that's true.
• 4:16
  Oh, shit.
• 4:17
  He's real, guys.
• 4:18
  Igor is real.
• 4:19
  And he's worth a point.
• 4:20
  But tonight, we're talking about first point of research.
• 4:24
  Yeah, exactly.
• 4:25
  I think Brittany got the first point.
• 4:26
  I got to write that down because I'm going to forget that.
• 4:27
  And Will gets the first one for not knowing that Brittany got the first point.
• 4:31
  I actually think I already gave Will a point for being at the conference.
• 4:34
  So that cancels out.
• 4:35
  But Will, I see you've got the classic rise up after dark whiteboard out for the second time in his many weeks.
• 4:42
  I know.
• 4:43
  I'm pretty stoked about that.
• 4:44
  Yeah, man.
• 4:45
  Glad to actually have you here for one of these.
• 4:46
  Do you usually have such good episodes without you?
• 4:48
  I'm going to try not to break this.
• 4:49
  All the night in the morning time at Tarenna's.
• 4:51
  I'm going to try not to break this streak.
• 4:53
  And we're going to break down a couple of altcoins that have been suggested by our friends in the rise up.
• 5:02
  Discord server.
• 5:03
  If you are curious, you want to learn about crypto, the best way to do it is to get into a community.
• 5:09
  And the best community we know is the free rise up discord server at discord.gg/riseup.
• 5:13
  But if you've got a question to suggestion and all the coin you want us to see, let us know.
• 5:17
  Take a picture of this screen if you want to play along at home.
• 5:20
  And we will get started here in a minute.
• 5:22
  What got tonight?
• 5:23
  Will you read them out for the people who are not watching video in audio?
• 5:26
  We got Axelar, BitTensorTow, D-Own protocol, which is a new one for me.
• 5:32
  Tars AI, Deep and Uniswap.
• 5:36
  And we've touched on some of these coins again, but it's always good to do a refresher on them as it's been a little bit of time.
• 5:41
  Not for Axelar though, it's actually pretty recent for them.
• 5:43
  But we'll take a look at them again, because Carol, we got you back.
• 5:47
  Yeah.
• 5:48
  Yeah.
• 5:49
  And we talked about starting with Tau just to get the ball rolling.
• 5:52
  But if there's something you want to see, there's something you want to hear, let us know we're easy, we're paying attention to the chat.
• 5:58
  And just to prove it, here's a point for Christina because she requested one and I'll ever.
• 6:02
  So, your show people, Tau, BitTensorTow, an interesting token.
• 6:10
  And I've got the website pulled up right here.
• 6:12
  It is, if you want to play along, bitTensor.com.
• 6:17
  You take a look at it for us.
• 6:19
  And then you go to the website that just immediately makes you feel stupid because it's 10 to 10.
• 6:23
  Yep, Tau.
• 6:24
  This is for me.
• 6:25
  Okay.
• 6:26
  Well, and I meant to say, but before I got into Tau, I lost my turn to thought given Christina a point, but the regular characters on that board, we done Axelar before.
• 6:33
  I'm pretty sure we talk about Uniswap all the time, but Alex, you said in our call to prep for the show.
• 6:38
  Yes.
• 6:39
  There's a lot of tokens that are getting some traction lately.
• 6:41
  And what was the Uniswap stat you mentioned just to tease it?
• 6:45
  It was TVL and it was how much percent in the last month?
• 6:48
  3,490%.
• 6:52
  TVL growth.
• 6:53
  Yeah.
• 6:54
  Wow.
• 6:55
  Yeah.
• 6:56
  That's wild.
• 6:57
  Okay.
• 6:58
  So that's your teaser.
• 6:59
  We're going to revisit some old friends.
• 7:01
  And we're going to model the helpful research that you can base your own research on.
• 7:04
  There's no one size fits all way to do crypto to invest, to spend your time in this space.
• 7:09
  You might be a builder or creator.
• 7:10
  You might be an investor.
• 7:11
  You might just be somebody who's trying to figure it all out.
• 7:13
  Hopefully you can pull tools from this show to enhance your experience in crypto totally legally.
• 7:19
  So do you guys want me to give the quick overview?
• 7:21
  I've got it, but I'm happy to defer.
• 7:23
  Please.
• 7:24
  BitTensor.
• 7:25
  Who's token is town.
• 7:28
  It's a decentralized network, layer one play, incentivizes the development and sharing of machine learning models.
• 7:35
  They are using blockchain to create a marketplace where AI models can be trained.
• 7:41
  They can do validation.
• 7:43
  They can be rewarded for validating as can users, creators, participants.
• 7:48
  Their whole goal is to promote a more open and really collaborative AI dev environment.
• 7:54
  Some key features of the blockchain are proof of intelligence, POI, a consensus mechanism where contributors are rewarded based on the quality and usefulness of their AI models.
• 8:04
  I have a question about that.
• 8:06
  I'm skeptical about it.
• 8:07
  They've got subnets, which are sort of like mini-atturbed blockchains for dedicated purposes.
• 8:13
  These are for AI-specific tasks, so that'll help them scale.
• 8:17
  And then dynamic-tow, dTow.
• 8:20
  This was introduced just last month and is a system that adjusts token emissions based on the demand and performance of the subnets.
• 8:29
  So it's basically a solution for efficient allocation of resources, which is important as you scale things.
• 8:35
  So token is the native utility token of the BitTensor network.
• 8:39
  It's got a couple of purposes.
• 8:41
  The first is it's an incentive.
• 8:43
  You reward contributors who provide valuable models, who make other contributions to the community in Tau Token.
• 8:48
  It's a governance token.
• 8:50
  People who hold it can participate in decision making, if there's going to be a network upgrade, some kind of policy change.
• 8:55
  And then staking, it can be set aside or allocated to validators.
• 9:00
  The people participating in consensus to help secure the network by locking up more tokens for that purpose and therefore making it like a, you know, this tokens are like bricks in a wall.
• 9:09
  And the more bricks you have in a wall, the harder it is to knock down.
• 9:12
  So staking, you can secure the network.
• 9:14
  There's a supply of 21 million tokens fixed supply.
• 9:18
  And it does have having events similar to Bitcoin, but I don't know what like the distribution of the supplies the tokenomics are.
• 9:24
  And there was a significant price surge recently, which is one of the reasons I think people have been talking about it more lately.
• 9:31
  Looks like when I checked prices were $333 a token, just about.
• 9:36
  46% on the week.
• 9:38
  Okay, 46% on the week, $2.86 billion market cap.
• 9:42
  So some increased interest.
• 9:44
  And I expect a lot of this might have to do with that detail and the expansion of subnets that are just making the network presumably more scalable.
• 9:51
  I don't know about usage. I don't know about where it's going to go in the future.
• 9:55
  And that is where I will leave it gentlemen to ask for your observations and your thoughts.
• 10:00
  Yeah, I have had, I've had a lot of mixed thoughts on bit tensor tau a from like an investment standpoint, I think, as long as the crypto markets are green, it's going to be something that leads because it's one of the leading and biggest and biggest namesake a icons and a icons are still super hot.
• 10:16
  So as long as the crypto markets agree, but tensor tau should be green.
• 10:20
  Those are my thoughts on that, but when I think about it as a solution, when I think about in open AI marketplace for like machine learning models, I first go, okay, like what's the advantage here?
• 10:32
  And there are some niceties.
• 10:35
  And by taking AI modeling and putting it onto like an open blockchain environment, you're enabling everybody to immediately know where and how high of a quality data set.
• 10:47
  And what the marketplaces are potentially pulling from right or you can at least see exactly how the models were made, which isn't necessarily anything two different from open source today in the open source marketplace that exists within the web to environment.
• 10:59
  But I always kind of struggle with the concept of like creating a machine learning marketplace for people because they just go, if I'm just interested in getting a model.
• 11:09
  I don't need to incorporate the difficulty of having to get a wallet to get that model. I can already get the most accurate models in the world through traditional open source. If you don't know what open sources.
• 11:19
  That is the environment offered through the regular web to regular traditional infrastructure today where you have the top data scientists in the world, putting code out for free.
• 11:32
  And that's where you to be able to go and use yourself if you are in fact data scientists. So in that sense, I go a machine learning environment that doesn't, I don't really care for that because nothing's new.
• 11:42
  In fact, just putting on the blockchain, you're just making it a little bit more difficult. But there is some credence to having models and data sets existing on the blockchain together.
• 11:53
  Because then you're like, okay, cool, here's this model, but I can see all the data that's feeding it. And if I have the know how or I trust somebody with the know how to go, hey, should this model be pushing out a really accurate answer, maybe more accurate than I can make myself with the data I have available to me because I can see every minute going into it.
• 12:09
  The data scientists says, yes, then hey, you have something that's valuable that has like an extra stamp of approval and credibility on it. And that's cool.
• 12:18
  Just one of the issues though is a lot of the data that you need in data science modeling, be it marketing use cases, be it financial services, be it, you know, what, what have you operation supply chain, all that stuff.
• 12:32
  A lot of the extra data sets that you need in order to be really accurate, you actually have to buy some of that from third party vendors in like traditional Web2 environments.
• 12:45
  So now you have that extra question that extra difficulties like, okay, well, how can this model and this data set in the blockchain really be used across all these various industries that may have pay walls in, you know, set businesses around access to that data.
• 13:01
  Sure, but those are extra complexity. So I say all of that to say, I'm truly skeptical skeptical about the current state of something like a bit tensor to really be better than what we have today.
• 13:14
  But there are enough merits there that they can work towards being a more beneficial solution to what we have today.
• 13:22
  And it's just a monumental task of bridging all of the data that exists between the blockchain ecosystem and traditional ecosystems, right.
• 13:32
  So that's those are my thoughts on bit tensor towel as a solution in so far as it compares to its ability to benefit the world, not just be an interesting speculative play in the crypto space.
• 13:44
  I think it can get there. It's just not there right now.
• 13:47
  And it's just in the comments that he has used bit tensor towel to buy extra compute said love me some bit tensor. I asked if it was loved by many people used by many people if you thought it was like necessary or just a niche thing and he said the AI art community loves it.
• 14:03
  That's do.
• 14:06
  Well super cool. It's always nice to hear people like using the solution.
• 14:10
  Yeah, that's that's always my first question, especially about the consensus mechanism. I was like, OK, P O I. Sounds like it could be kind of a fugazi, fugazi.
• 14:19
  But as you can see on their website, the screen share here, it's very text heavy and they like to compare themselves to Bitcoin by saying that it's the ultimate example of how they are making a market solution.
• 14:32
  They call it a digital commodity incentive mechanism by defining the way in which computer power is validated how they agree together who has the most power and does the most reward and presumably in a world where that kind of resources scarce.
• 14:46
  You'll need a solution to allocate it efficiently. So I like I can get behind that. I'd like to see some more stuff curious Alex. What's your take on this is.
• 14:56
  This is a really good example for me of something I do like to bring up just because I think it's topical when we're talking about these different projects.
• 15:03
  We have to remember that not every project is for every person.
• 15:07
  And one of the first things that I try to think about when I look at a website, especially this one is am I even supposed to be reading this not that I can't and that I couldn't go there to try to learn something.
• 15:18
  But like I'm not the target audience doesn't matter if I understand it because when I think about all of the different kinds of projects that exist and you know the way they use blockchain.
• 15:29
  Or the way they use a token the way they use any kind of cryptocurrency or whatever.
• 15:34
  That's the part that I'm trying to understand but I don't always fit the model of like who they're communicating with.
• 15:41
  So when I look at unlocked out instantly I'm like, yup, I'm a customer. I would use this. I am their target audience. I am much more qualified to sit here and criticize this thing or applaud it for this that whatever.
• 15:55
  Then I am something like this. So I try to at least be upfront with myself right off the bat about that. And when I look at something like the tensor, I immediately know like I don't really check any of the boxes.
• 16:06
  I'm not doing big AI stuff. I don't need to borrow compute power for this kind of stuff. I am not in a position to lend it out.
• 16:14
  I am not participating in any kind of governance over AI compute power models all this kind of stuff.
• 16:21
  So immediately then I'm already having a look at it through a little bit of a different lens.
• 16:26
  And I can sit here and for example one of the things that I've done several times to try to deepen my understanding of it is just take that link to the tensor, tau white paper, send it to GPT and just start asking questions about it.
• 16:38
  Like, hey listen, I am not the target audience. I don't know that much about this kind of stuff. I need you to teach to me.
• 16:44
  So let's make an action plan to help me understand this in a better way or something like that.
• 16:49
  And it does a great job. The right up that it's done or phenomenal. They're getting better. The better you are asked questions better yet. So I honestly feel a little bit unqualified to like really grade this project just because it's just not, you know, it's not in my wheelhouse.
• 17:06
  Sure. Well then what do you say we take a look at coin gecko and talk about it as investment. Will do you have a thought?
• 17:12
  Yeah, one of the thing I wanted to add is from an a tokenomics standpoint. Right now it adds about $80 million worth of tau tokens a month.
• 17:22
  But once you get into September of this year, that's going to essentially be cut into a third. So the in the daily issuance and inflation of the token, which by the way does make it harder for the price of it to go up will be lessening once it comes into September.
• 17:40
  So could make it even easier for tau to rise in the future as compared to it did in the past. But that still doesn't mean that there's not more supply out there, which makes it.
• 17:50
  But daily issuance of supply going down is typically better for price going up. These are the makes it easier.
• 17:56
  In terms of it as an investment. I mean, like I said, if the crypto markets are green, you should expect bit tensor tau to be green.
• 18:05
  If you want air quotes safe exposure to the AI trend in the crypto space, this is probably the one you get if you like, I mean, that's just it.
• 18:15
  So like from an investment standpoint, it's an a minus because as long as bitcoins green. This guy's going to pop off and it's probably going to do well.
• 18:25
  Do you think that's going to be true, even as this space becomes more competitive, like specifically I'm thinking about the decentralized compute GPU in a sense, I kind of think of this like I think of DSI.
• 18:39
  I have a page up here that talks more about the consensus mechanism and I want to know if you agree with this because here's how it works proof of intelligence, the participants, they're called neurons.
• 18:49
  They contribute models, machine learning models to the network, these models, if they're good and people use them, they get tau tokens as rewards. The better your model is, the more tokens you can earn and that kind of thing.
• 19:01
  It reminds me of DSI in the way that people are like, you know, it would be great if we just had a token that we could all buy and then we could fund some scientific research, which is cute and well and good.
• 19:09
  I love it. Good, great, grand as our friend know what say.
• 19:12
  But are you telling me that your little Dow is going to compete, your little $2.5 billion market cap token is going to compete with open AI, Microsoft at this level at this time.
• 19:24
  I feel like it's an important thing to strive for, but I don't know that it's the best like architecture for a solution and I would, I kind of feel like you Alex, I don't know that I'm really qualified to say that because I don't know enough about that market, but will I feel like that's something you have more insight on is that kind of company and how loaded they are or how competitive it would be.
• 19:41
  And my thing is you're not going to compete. Yeah, that's kind of where I'm thinking is, but this is crypto. You don't have to be a company that's actually going to do the thing that you said you're going to do.
• 19:52
  You just have to be the leading crypto company in your category. And that's bit tensor towel and we have a long proven track history of those things go up and value one Bitcoin is green.
• 20:04
  Not wrong about that. Not wrong about that at all.
• 20:07
  Not wrong about that. Okay, then final thoughts on tower. Do we feel like we've got a grade?
• 20:13
  I would just say that on the on the subject of it as an investment, I think all of that matters. I think what will said is extremely valid and crypto your ability to compete properly or turn revenue doesn't matter as much as the story.
• 20:32
  But the story is everything man, you just have to be the big fish in the small pond. You have to be the competitive guy in the crypto space.
• 20:39
  Meanwhile, there's like the great white shark that's in the ocean, but you're not going to compete against as a as the biggest rainbow trout in the lake.
• 20:48
  Just because and I say this is like, for example, my experience with AI is pretty much just mass testing all of the LLMS as much as I can to compare my results for whatever I needed for.
• 21:00
  That's kind of how I judge them. It's it's a singular anecdotal view of the of the industry, but that's what I got.
• 21:06
  When it comes to those kinds of things though, like it takes nothing for me to drop it and I will just go with the better one.
• 21:13
  So I think that if it was like trying to compete on a product stage that obviously it's going to struggle, but I don't necessarily think that that matters in the grand scheme of things, especially not any immediate future as far as crypto is concerned as long as they keep doing the thing.
• 21:27
  So, you know, it's I would have to give it all say I was into the grades. I would have to give it middle of the road just because I don't know enough about it to have like a real education.
• 21:35
  And I wouldn't do us all the disservice of me sitting here, loviating a grade that I don't fully understand.
• 21:41
  Loviating like a permeating bovine.
• 21:44
  Okay, okay, so your grade is a see is a see.
• 21:52
  Will I'm gonna. It's a cop out. I admit. It's a cop out. I'm gonna give it a B because I agree with you that the story, the chart, the Bitcoin have a strong influence.
• 22:02
  I would pay more attention to this and I just like to learn how it works because I think their site reflects a lot of money and a lot of thought like they clearly have really worked their minds around what they believe is an important problem.
• 22:13
  And I think that's worth another look.
• 22:15
  So you were a B?
• 22:17
  B Alex was a C. So what's you going B?
• 22:20
  I'm going. I'm going with a minus going with a minus. So that's like what like a B or B plus probably.
• 22:27
  We're talking overall. Yeah, I think yeah, I think you're sitting at. I think it's actually closer to a B minus.
• 22:34
  B minus.
• 22:36
  Beautiful.
• 22:37
  Congratulations, Tao. You've got a B minus will you've got two points. Alex, you've got two points. I've got a point. Christine has even got a point. Can you believe it?
• 22:46
  I certainly can. I certainly can. Do we want to do? I need to say Dione. Dione.
• 22:53
  I like to do another like one that's new to us just so we can get the impression of our first look. Dione.
• 23:01
  If you know how to say it in the comments, Dione, Dione. And while we take a minute to pull this up, I also know that somebody had requested Filecoin and you mentioned Alex that we're going to have someone from Filecoin on the show.
• 23:11
  So can you give me a commercial? I don't know what my accent is there give me a commercial about who we should expect to be our guest.
• 23:19
  By way of transition, golly.
• 23:22
  Yeah, so we are still finalizing scheduling, but I guess that is coming up pretty soon, who is the current CEO and founder of a cave is a previous team member and employee at Filecoin.
• 23:37
  And is extremely passionate about data, data storage and decentralizing that whole thing. So I'm personally very excited.
• 23:43
  And he first told me like, this is boring and I'm like, you don't understand. It is, but it's really important and we can make it exciting because data is super important.
• 23:54
  So I'm going to punt the Filecoin conversation until we have the resident expert himself here with us, hopefully next week, but standby for the final scheduling on that interview.
• 24:07
  But in a tiny nutshell, it is a decentralized data storage solution. And the ultimate question is how decentralized are these things and does that matter and what's the point and is there benefit to it.
• 24:20
  And the only thing that I'll say about it is that in a world where the biggest thing that you produce, the most valuable thing you produce on a regular basis is data, something that gets literally taken from you often without your awareness and sold for tremendous amounts of money right from underneath you to support an industry that makes a few people extremely rich that wouldn't exist without you and all of your hard work.
• 24:45
  Yeah, it's super fucking important. So you should care about your data and decentralized data source solutions are extremely important. And that's why I've been obsessed with data solutions since I got to cryptos like if we're talking about blockchains, which are just decentralized or databases data is the fucking that's the thing. That's the whole thing.
• 25:06
  That's the whole kid in caboodle. So I am a big fan of this big fan of this.
• 25:10
  It's a shame that we didn't get Brittany on tonight. I cannot wait to have her because this is so her conversation prepping for this Brittany wherever you are whenever you listen. I hope you made it to the White House and I can't wait to have you on the show.
• 25:20
  Do you guys want me to give the overview or does somebody else have the overview of die on protocol and for folks who want to go along at home, it's die on di.
• 25:28
  I think I think I got the gist of it. Okay. So it's a layer one blockchain, which immediately puts it into an incredibly competitive field.
• 25:41
  So I then tried to find how is it making itself different. So it's focuses on renewable energy. So it's a layer one blockchain that it claims is entirely run by renewable energy.
• 25:53
  So that's good. Great. And love that. And it's mission is it. It has the idea it's like it's product that it wants to have or it's like home base is going to be it's bread and butter is going to be a marketplace that enabled a green energy marketplace where people can get access to green energy, you know, purchase it and sell it for a more sustainable and greener future.
• 26:18
  And that was kind of the gist that I got. Evan, is there anything else to kind of add on top of that. Yeah, I think it might be interesting to talk about just some of the parts of their chain. So like you said, the mission is democratized green energy.
• 26:31
  And the first part of that is their EVM compatible layer one blockchain, like we'll said, incredibly competitive space, but also incredibly lucrative.
• 26:39
  If you're pitching to a VC, it's great to have the phrase building a layer one blockchain in your mouth because they see big time dollar signs the the TVL the market cap for a layer one is just bigger than I'm building a game.
• 26:51
  You know, so Odyssey chain that's their layer one high throughput 45,000 or 4500 transactions per second swift transaction finality less than one second, just like everybody.
• 27:02
  And robust security, I think they might have some way to borrow some security from Ethereum. They've got nebra is the name of their energy marketplace. So users can trade energy directly bypassing a traditional like grid system.
• 27:15
  That's their whole blockchain thing is like if we bring this on chain and use smart contracts, you don't have to use the solution now, which is kind of like the stock market. It's closed sometime.
• 27:23
  It's clunky sometimes wouldn't you rather just be in the form of a token and we can trade it that much easier and the answer for most people is yes. They've got Orion are you sensing a theme here, Odyssey, Odyssey, nebra Orion, a decentralized physical infrastructure network, deep in.
• 27:37
  So it's like an AI star link satellite internet that'll operate their solar powered blockchain validators in places that are remote where energy is cheap and maybe where they can share power with people who are not on the grid.
• 27:52
  And then they got a wallet energy renewable energy powered wallet. I'm not sure how that works. That's the claim for managing your dion and the consensus mechanism is proof of stake and the token.
• 28:03
  There are 13 billion dion tokens 10.15 billion circulating market cap of 17 million tiny and it looks like the team has to do the vested tokens still their future raises tokens allocated, but it's not a big portion of the supply.
• 28:23
  We're talking like single digits of percent. So that's pretty good. But that's what I've got their website here is dion protocol.com and they're at dion protocol on Twitter.
• 28:32
  The immediate impression I get of the website is kind of like, I don't know, it's a really interesting vision. I'd want to see what's the proof in the putting like how viable is this and is it competitive with something else that's also green like a layer to an Ethereum.
• 28:47
  I don't know. I feel like that's branding. You shaking your head. So this go out.
• 28:53
  This is this is just buzz. I've only five I get this is buzz. Like the things that are being an NFT collection.
• 29:03
  Oh, sorry. God.
• 29:04
  Theme to run celestial narratives and the cosmos.
• 29:08
  Oh, sorry, sorry.
• 29:10
  Want to go on.
• 29:12
  So what I say is if you want me to step in is the price had done well in the past.
• 29:21
  Like it going up into April of 2024. So last year like it did pretty well then since then it's kind of been a bit of a laggard. It's been a good coin trade for sure has been incredibly volatile.
• 29:31
  It's a 16 to 17 million dollar coin. So the opportunity to trade on it is good.
• 29:36
  If you can find a market with enough volume to handle your trading, but yeah, it's just a bunch of buzz. And here's my problem with democratizing green energy.
• 29:47
  Do I like that? Yes. But like think about who your target audience is for democratizing energy.
• 29:53
  They're people who don't have access to energy there, which means that there are people who are lower down on the economic status.
• 30:02
  And they don't really care if it's green energy or dirty energy. They just need something to keep the lights on at their home to keep heat on.
• 30:12
  If you have air conditioning, whatever you need for cooking, you just need some basic energy, right?
• 30:18
  Green energy is great, but it is still a luxury. We're starting now to get to the point where green energy is becoming cheaper like to get electric.
• 30:27
  It can be cheaper, but that's entirely dependent on if your government subsidizes it right now.
• 30:32
  Green energy is a luxury. And if you're trying to democratize energy and offer it in a new medium where you need wall to not like kind of stuff, you know, it has to be super, super, super, super, super dirt cheap.
• 30:46
  And green energy just isn't that dirt cheap to be able to like incentivize people coming on to this new system to get it.
• 30:53
  I just don't see that really necessarily happening because the target audience right now for people who want green energy, like it's a right now it's a luxury good.
• 31:03
  And you're just not going to get that audience with this.
• 31:07
  Yeah, I don't think you know what I'm trying to say. I don't know if I put that out.
• 31:10
  Somebody who works it. I think so. Somebody who works at Exxon is not seeing this and going, I can't wait to invest.
• 31:14
  I mean, or you know, the money and the power is not yet here, although I will push back just to say that there are a lot of examples where in remote areas, especially no grid means no competition.
• 31:28
  Excess energy has no buyers. And if they overproduce like Bitcoin miners during some points in the day, then they can share that power.
• 31:35
  And that is a really, it's a popular narrative. I don't know how financially viable it is.
• 31:41
  But I got to believe at some levels and in some ways it is because more and more people do seem to be doing it. I just don't know enough about it to have a more informed opinion.
• 31:49
  I'd be more interested if it was just like democratizing energy.
• 31:53
  You know, the green energy aspect to it just kind of makes me worried. It's just very busy.
• 31:58
  Like what Alex said, but this is crypto.
• 32:01
  And you can do well, you know, so, but, but you know, as a solution, democratizing energy is good, great and grand. It's just I feel like it's, I don't know, just isn't like it's area and no point for bringing the phrase, good, great grand into our vocabulary because it's had quite a night today.
• 32:19
  I don't know.
• 32:22
  I've always said that from Adam Sandler. No, I don't think I've ever heard of say that.
• 32:28
  It's been a, it's been a, it's not a constant, but it's always been there because I have said it since a small child from the scene where Chris Farley is the bus driver in Bill, no happy Gilmore.
• 32:39
  And they're about to drive everybody back and you're good, great grand everybody on the bus.
• 32:44
  I don't remember him being in that movie that's fantastic. Yeah, I gotta go back and watch it.
• 32:49
  Alex, go ahead, man.
• 32:51
  So yeah, I, I don't like a lot of things about this.
• 32:56
  You could have stopped that sense that I don't like a lot of things.
• 32:59
  I don't like a lot of things.
• 33:01
  I don't, I don't like a lot of things about this because the imp, and this is my first impression.
• 33:07
  I will just glamor.
• 33:10
  I know what I, what I have found out about this in the last 10 minutes.
• 33:15
  If what is being advertised to me is this renewable green energy, whatever, there are so many other instances where that is an afterthought. That's like a given with a lot of these things.
• 33:26
  I mean, the, the Web 3 industry is a relatively green industry, which a lot of that was spurred on by the fact that there was concerns about Bitcoin's energy consumption.
• 33:37
  And now we are at a point where consistently more than half of the energy going into Bitcoin mining is green.
• 33:44
  And actually there are several instances of energy recycling and there's a town in Vancouver this was years ago that made headlines because they were, they had a big, a Bitcoin plant or a minor, my facility recycled the heat, pumped it into houses.
• 33:59
  The entire, El Salvador's entire mining operation is a geothermal minor, geothermal energy, minor.
• 34:06
  This is not unique.
• 34:08
  So if that's your headline, you're going to need a lot more like no one's going to invest in it just because of that.
• 34:14
  The chart looks like shit.
• 34:17
  Yeah, look, I'm not in a hurry to buy that thing. I agree with you will like there's chalk, but like there's so many better things to trade that I wouldn't have to worry about just rugged tomorrow.
• 34:26
  Or such a low amount of volume that like you're going to have so much slippage on your transactions and lose money there like it's just, it's not a good, it's not a good coin.
• 34:35
  Yeah, and it's just, I mean, there's too many things too. So like what?
• 34:40
  Okay, so you're an energy. Okay, no, it's just a super fast watch. Okay, no, that's not it.
• 34:47
  High, you know, low finality times whatever it's like, okay, I ran a team.
• 34:52
  Yeah, by the NFC. Also, we do deep in it's just like, first of all, make up your mind.
• 34:57
  Second of all, all the things that are the defining characteristics of yours are after thoughts on every other major network.
• 35:03
  I mean, you want to talk about finality. That's mega eats whole brand.
• 35:09
  Late low latency algorithms whole brand is finality.
• 35:14
  Like you can't you can't and also algorithms whole brand is green energy.
• 35:18
  So you can't just come in here and steal a couple bumper stickers from big popular projects.
• 35:25
  Slap it on and make me give a shit at this.
• 35:28
  I'm worried like they got 18 million dollars worth of a shit. Well, yeah, I know Mark.
• 35:34
  That's that's crypto for you, but yeah.
• 35:37
  At the end of the day, this is this is not a thing that I think needs to exist.
• 35:41
  Yeah, and the other thing too is you have all these things and some of these things would be really, really cool if there wasn't an Algo Rand.
• 35:47
  There wasn't a Solana.
• 35:49
  There wasn't a 5,000 other layer ones and also things are already green.
• 35:55
  And you said, so I think we're ready to give this one a great.
• 35:59
  Go first, man. Tell me where you're throwing it.
• 36:01
  I'm going to give it a D minus.
• 36:04
  I was going to give it a D. So I'm I'm right there with you, man.
• 36:07
  I'm right there with you. Alex.
• 36:10
  He's giving it up.
• 36:11
  I don't have enough space here for actually now hang on a second.
• 36:15
  You can do it.
• 36:16
  It's already got a.
• 36:17
  You can do it.
• 36:19
  Yeah, I'm not sure how you'd spell that.
• 36:23
  But let us know how we're doing.
• 36:25
  We've done.
• 36:26
  Dianne protocol.
• 36:27
  We've done Tao bit tensor.
• 36:29
  We have a couple grades on the board and a few more to go.
• 36:33
  Let us know what your grades are.
• 36:34
  Let us know at this point if you have questions, suggestions, good jokes, words of wisdom.
• 36:38
  Leave them in the chat and if you're listening to the recording, feel free to leave them in the recond- Alex, have you not taken a look at what is on for your grade?
• 36:47
  Perfect.
• 36:50
  Beautiful.
• 36:51
  You've captured the other.
• 36:53
  Yeah, that's beautiful.
• 36:56
  It's a middle finger stick figure drawing and it's frankly perfect.
• 37:00
  I think that should be an emoji just like that.
• 37:02
  I think it should be.
• 37:03
  So that was the grade we get in average grade there.
• 37:06
  D probably.
• 37:07
  But hey, you know what now that we've given it a D, it'll probably like give 5,000 extra turns.
• 37:12
  Yeah, we have a record on the show of grading things low and then they have a little.
• 37:16
  Although that was.
• 37:17
  That infamously that was ton coin.
• 37:21
  I think we gave it a great.
• 37:23
  We gave it a great, we gave it an A and then like two days later, like the founder was arrested.
• 37:27
  Of Telegram.
• 37:28
  It's just like, I am.
• 37:29
  And there's one of their coming like this is awful.
• 37:32
  It was like, we also gave Velodromacy and then it had like a big pump or a C- or something.
• 37:37
  Yeah, it happens sometimes.
• 37:39
  We're grading based on first, would you pay more attention to this project?
• 37:44
  And would you invest more in it is really the question.
• 37:48
  You could be investing in tension.
• 37:49
  You could be investing as a community member.
• 37:51
  You could be investing dollars.
• 37:52
  But you know, sometimes these things like Will has pointed out have great pump of mental.
• 37:57
  DeFi daddy said it when he was on.
• 37:59
  It doesn't matter that it doesn't do anything.
• 38:01
  It's the number one in its category on coin, gecko and Bitcoin is going up.
• 38:04
  So it's a great time to buy.
• 38:06
  Or less, you know, things things of this size are right for manipulation.
• 38:11
  It really doesn't take that much to push a chart that's this small and that bad.
• 38:16
  So like the the one, the big caveat, the big disclaimer to grading all coins like this that you really do have to be aware of is that.
• 38:25
  And it sounds silly because we sit here and we do this and we spend a lot of time learning about this and researching these things.
• 38:30
  But like at the end of the day, all of this can be undermined by one way.
• 38:35
  I'll be in like, I'd like to make some money.
• 38:38
  That pile of shit full send and then it just does 600% in a week for absolutely no reason at all.
• 38:45
  Someone makes a buttload of money that dumps back into the ground.
• 38:48
  But for that moment, everyone's like, oh, what an amazing project.
• 38:51
  And then, you know, some momentum is is taken and there you go.
• 38:55
  I'd be curious to know where they heard about it.
• 38:57
  Go ahead.
• 38:58
  What I was going to say in sorry for talking over you Evan, but what I was going to say is from having the conversation earlier with pre who's a new friend of ours who's been working in the D5 space since 2017, the number of different projects and the like.
• 39:10
  She was like these D5 projects need to break out and get new people because she's like, what are your thoughts of crypto Twitter?
• 39:17
  I'm like, well, it's a big circle, jerk of the industry of the same people talking to the same people for the same certain number of years.
• 39:23
  And she's like, it's an even it's the same thing on chain.
• 39:27
  And I was like, Oh, what do you mean? She's like, every single D5 project has just been farming.
• 39:33
  And I kid you not the same 3000 wallets for about four to six years.
• 39:38
  Yeah, but like, I believe just they just focus on those big wallets and they just farm them.
• 39:43
  And those wallets get to keep making money because they're early on just like some D5 projects and the like.
• 39:49
  And that's just what this industry has been doing for like four to six years.
• 39:53
  Now it's like, I believe that whole heartedly. Yeah. Yeah.
• 39:57
  Yeah. I mean, you can track that for yourself. That's not a thing. You have the beauty of blockchain. You don't have to take anyone's word for it.
• 40:02
  There are reports written about this kind of thing.
• 40:04
  Chain Allysis, I'm sure has done overviews of this kind of thing.
• 40:08
  And that the best way I printed described was was exactly that.
• 40:12
  Like this whole ecosystem right now is a bunch of protocols competing for the same couple thousand giga users to port their liquidity over to their side of defense.
• 40:22
  For a little while. And how do you do that usually by extra TGEs dropping some sort of an air drop that kind of a thing and once you're flash in the pan is over.
• 40:32
  Everyone's going to move on to something else.
• 40:34
  And right now no one is really trying to break the model and do anything.
• 40:39
  So the ecosystem is right for some goddamn innovation for a change.
• 40:44
  And the second that it happens, I think that the easiest prediction is going to be when real innovation comes around, no one's going to want.
• 40:51
  Anything to do with it because it's going to be weird and they feel comfortable in the value extraction model that is currently everywhere.
• 40:59
  The old pyramid scheme, talk it up as if it's the next big thing.
• 41:04
  Farm everybody for liquidity drops some kind of crappy token that plummets into a paidies kitchen tomorrow morning and then rinse and repeat with another pile of shit tomorrow.
• 41:14
  And there you go.
• 41:15
  The second someone comes around does something different. It's not going to get recognized.
• 41:21
  I feel skised out by this and then that thing is going to still be here. It's never going to dump and in a year someone's be like, wait, look at this chart.
• 41:28
  Look at this protocol. It hasn't been farmed. It's not been whatever. They're still cooking whatever.
• 41:34
  And then all of a sudden it'll get some recognition and move.
• 41:38
  And that's why I was excited that you swap was on the list because it's just a very different setup.
• 41:44
  It's one of those that did it just a little bit differently. Just a tiny break down the norm.
• 41:49
  Okay, and what may be on that thread. Yeah. Yeah.
• 41:51
  I was going to say maybe think of that though as Alex you just being like in one whale decides to sell and I was like it's probably one of those 3000 wallets.
• 41:57
  But yeah, yeah, yeah, no, keep keep pulling on that thread for sure because I think that's a good segue into you want to swap in kind of what's going on there because it's fascinating.
• 42:05
  Yeah, and my question of course is is it too late to get in? Yeah, it's not a good time to buy.
• 42:09
  It's the perfect time to buy. I'm giving us all a point for that. Thank you very much.
• 42:16
  Alex, do you want to do the overview on the old uniswap and tell us why we're talking about it tonight because everybody knows uniswap I think or at least a lot of people will be familiar with it.
• 42:24
  But I agree it's worth the second look.
• 42:27
  Yes, absolutely. Okay, so I was excited to put this on at night.
• 42:31
  I want to pull up.
• 42:33
  I want to see if I can find the Evan stall. I'm going to try to find this chart because it was no problem.
• 42:40
  I want to remind you that if you are asking for a token and we respond in the comments that we've already talked about it before or you're just listening and thinking to yourself.
• 42:46
  I wish they do this. I wish they do that.
• 42:48
  Check out the rise up after dark playlist on YouTube.
• 42:50
  We have got 29 episodes, interviews, expert guests and deep dive altcoin research on tokens like Plume Network, like Baruchane, like what is it, Ton? We've done just about everything. We've done doch. We've done pepe.
• 43:07
  We've done a lot of hot trendy coins. We've done tokens that have been around forever and we've probably given a take on your favorite cryptocurrency token.
• 43:16
  And given it a grade two, we'd love to know if you agree with it, disagree with it and you can leave your feedback on those YouTube videos or of course in the discord.
• 43:23
  Somebody asked about Baruchane tonight. Somebody asked about Plume tonight. We touched on file coin.
• 43:28
  If there's a token you don't see there, the best place for your comment and your suggestion is in the rise up discord server.
• 43:35
  It's totally free to join global community with learners at all levels of experience. The only thing missing is you plus we've got premium memberships you can get courses that we've recorded.
• 43:45
  We've got PDF guides. We've got coaching. If you just need some help or emotional support, it's really the best place to be and that's the best way to learn crypto is in the context of a community and ours.
• 43:55
  We think it's the best. So check it out at discord.gg/riseup or find the link at the rise up morning show.com. Leave us your altcoin picks there. Alex, how'd I do? Are you ready for me?
• 44:06
  Yes.
• 44:07
  Woo! Give myself a point. Thank you very much.
• 44:10
  You deserve a point. You're the best at it.
• 44:12
  Okay, so I don't know about that, but I am at it.
• 44:15
  Really quick.
• 44:16
  Before we get into the numbers because the reason I wanted to talk about it tonight was was the numbers.
• 44:22
  If actually Evan, if you want to prep the whole screen share just for Uniswap and Unichains DeFi Lama profile, a lot of it's on there.
• 44:32
  I'm going to go to the Uniswap website first. Is that okay?
• 44:35
  Totally.
• 44:36
  So the quick overview here is so Uniswap came out in 2018 and yeah, 2018, right?
• 44:48
  I have the token out in 2020, but the token came out after the solution.
• 44:53
  Yeah, the air drop was, it was a, the air drop was a huge air drop. This was.
• 44:58
  I have a friend here in Memphis who participated in it and he even has a pair of Uniswap's that they distributed to their holders that are worth like thousands of dollars with the NFT.
• 45:08
  Brilliant.
• 45:09
  So yeah, I think the launch Uniswap V1, I'll fact check myself. I want to say came out in 2018.
• 45:16
  It was basically just this place for amms, automated market makers to market facilitate trades.
• 45:27
  Yes.
• 45:28
  And the big, the big thing at this point was just trading between Ether, the native cryptocurrency for the Ethereum network and other ERC 20 tokens.
• 45:38
  There were, there were no like everything had to be routed through ETH in the beginning.
• 45:43
  There were no like ERC 20 to ERC 20 swaps, which is an interesting fun fact.
• 45:48
  Fast forward a little bit. We start getting all of these other functionalities. It's, it's growing, right?
• 45:53
  Like it's DeFi, Lama chart is gives you a pretty good overview of its entire lifespan and the money and all that sort of stuff.
• 46:02
  Then, you know, more and more things or more features come out were on what version three now.
• 46:08
  Yeah, actually on version four, though, V3 is the one that most people use.
• 46:12
  You have V3 features that new feature I can talk about in a minute.
• 46:15
  Okay, sweet. V3 came out a couple years ago at this point.
• 46:19
  A whole bunch of new features happen at this point. This is one of the things that you will see from protocol to protocol.
• 46:24
  Like, for example, when I use Ave, I'm on Ave V3. You can still use the old versions, but there's just not.
• 46:30
  There's not as much money. There's not all that kind of stuff. You know, most people are using the newest, most current version.
• 46:37
  Good night, Jordan. Go ahead.
• 46:41
  The.
• 46:44
  Fother is working. W's in the chat for Jordan. Everybody. Jordan.
• 46:48
  You get a point.
• 46:51
  Anyway, there is this this native token on Uniswap called Uni. And it's been it's been taken for a long time.
• 47:00
  And this I want to say this was like the first or one of the first of this idea of like platform or Dex tokens.
• 47:09
  And now there are a ton and they have their special place in the industry.
• 47:14
  And they're one of the few that has some interesting utility options, depending on how much you care about that kind of stuff.
• 47:22
  So, you know, governance on the protocol, making decisions, farming rewards, better yield.
• 47:28
  One of the first or actually not one of the first place I ever learned about providing liquidity and for the record, I got those because I know clue I was doing and I didn't research properly was providing liquidity in an East, unipair on Uniswap.
• 47:42
  And they have their own blockchain now, which has only just come out quite recently.
• 47:49
  And spoiler alert, it's going all right, which is really interesting because it's launch coincided with the launch of a bunch of other networks, a bunch of other specific blockchains.
• 48:03
  And I talked about in the last couple months, the last year, how many relatively large names have launched in this sense? You have uni chain base before that.
• 48:16
  Ink chain from Kraken, you've got a bear chain is another one blast is another one.
• 48:24
  There is a number, there's a bunch of layer two's is a bunch of first layer chains, there's all this kind of stuff and all of them actually except for base.
• 48:34
  And who else doesn't have their own ink doesn't have their own token base doesn't have their own token.
• 48:41
  This one has a token with a bit of a checkered checkered past lengthy price chart history. I have held Uniswap before I don't currently hold it, but to be very honest with you, like I am reconsidering just because I feel I kind of feel like I want exposure to this ecosystem.
• 49:01
  Not even too much like from a raw investment just from the fact that I might want to go back and try to do more stuff because I still use Uniswap on a pretty regular basis if I need to trade anything on ether or EBM. It's going to go through Uniswap.
• 49:15
  My question is, are the tokenomics for Uniswap different now that they have its own blockchain? Are the fees paid in Uniswap or are they paid in Ethereum?
• 49:26
  Because for those of you who don't know, Uniswap is infinitely kind of held up as the example of like the prime governance token that who's tokenomics don't really help drive up the price.
• 49:39
  Like with Ethereum, you need Ethereum to pay for gas fees. So using Ethereum causes the price to go up because you need to buy Ethereum for gas fees. Right. With Uniswap, it's just governance.
• 49:50
  Do you know if the tokenomics, the demand side, utility of the coin is different?
• 49:59
  I don't know that I'll have to talk my head. I would have. I would be very curious to go look at myself though.
• 50:03
  Let me see. Let me see what I can find while you keep riffing.
• 50:07
  Yeah, that was going to be what I was going to look up. But if you can believe it, my computer is actually said not today, Satan, not today.
• 50:13
  So the last thing I was going to say just about this being kind of an interesting is that we didn't get a fresh token that launched just for this.
• 50:21
  We got additional utility and more purpose for an existing token that was already distributed in AirDrop a long ass time ago, which is exactly what I'm talking about when I say something interesting, something that is a break from the norm of fresh token launched to everyone crater the price by however many percent.
• 50:42
  I'm sorry, down by today, 50% about that. Also shout out to your boy, I got an AirDrop of like 824 tokens for a whopping grand total of $19.24.
• 50:58
  Thank you very much. I saw somebody on Twitter today. Yeah, rolling in it.
• 51:02
  I received one Zora and I was like, yeah, yeah, Evan, you just reminded me of like a trade I completed, I think like a week ago or five days ago now where it was a, you know, I think it was a week ago.
• 51:15
  It was like, I had four trades I made two or losses. One was a big win, which made the whole thing worth it. And then one was $14.
• 51:26
  Yeah, maybe moving. Oh, that was on the, that was my on the trade. So it's like, let me read us the market. I wiped everything and you know, made a few made a few grand, but like I was like $14.
• 51:39
  Oh, yeah.
• 51:40
  Okay. So what did you find out about the tokenomics for you need token? Are we?
• 51:44
  Three use cases. Yeah, there's governance participation. So say, I love you. Nice book. Yeah, nothing to staking for revenue sharing. So staking is good.
• 51:56
  We like staking enhanced utility through staking rewards. This is the part I didn't read. So let me see.
• 52:02
  Beyond governance, staking unit tokens contribute to the network security and efficiency. Yadda and return stakers receive rewards. Yadda, which enhanced the tokens utility and Kurt blah, blah, blah. That's the third way.
• 52:12
  The third reason is the second reason. So you have staking and you have governance. That's it. It's not the gas token. We're using eith.
• 52:19
  Yeah, let me double check it on that real quick. No, no, no, no, no. Confirmation. We are using eith for gas fees.
• 52:25
  Okay. Well, it is nice that they released uni chain without some new token, but it would be nice if they added some kind of additional utility for the uniswop token. I think that would have gotten people really excited.
• 52:38
  Yeah, even if it was just a fugazi, I kind of, but I like, I like that it's thought. I like to eat those. I like to eat those of it.
• 52:46
  And I like that the token exists. I like that it's doing stuff now. And I when I had that that page up for coin get go, I really liked just the way it was looking.
• 52:57
  I don't know the dexies are going to have some sort of meteoric return or blow pass there all time highs. But I like where it's looking.
• 53:06
  It's obviously not going anywhere. They're making big moves. And I think if in a world where crypto companies valuations never actually legitimately reflect the value they provide to the market, it produces a ton of revenue.
• 53:18
  A lot of people use it. It's integrated with dozens of protocols. I think it's 16 or 17 chains now. And in a world where dex tokens are positioned for growth and a comeback.
• 53:28
  Honestly, can't think of a better token. That's more well positioned. It reminds me of like the link of dexies like you just know link is going to go back up in price. You just I just feel like now.
• 53:37
  Now might be a good time to buy you in a swap. It's the perfect time to buy for me.
• 53:42
  Yeah, it's I mean, it's it's down just a tiny smidgen on the hour. But of course it is one of those that has done double digit percentage points up this week.
• 53:55
  17% on the week, which is not nothing. But when you zoom out, it's a blip compared to where this thing was. I mean, go back to 2021 times this thing was over $40 at the peak.
• 54:07
  And it's been as high as in the teens and what are we at six bucks right now. So that's kind of why like you said, Evan, I've been considering it.
• 54:16
  I have no earthly idea where it would go. This would kind of be like a similar methodology to when I added a little bit of on though. I did it to like mark that I have some.
• 54:28
  And then kind of change the way that I monitor this thing because now I have like a vested interest in learning more paying more attention to it.
• 54:36
  I own some of it. I'm covered just in case it was kind of a, I don't want to say impulse, but like, you know, I didn't go into a lengthy plan to say like, OK, yes, now is the perfect time for me to get this.
• 54:45
  It's done this and that I'm looking at the chart like all these kinds of like, OK, no, what I've been sitting on it long enough. I know enough about it. I'm going to get a little bit of it.
• 54:52
  And that's kind of how I feel about you need swap at this point to be very honest.
• 54:57
  Yeah, for me, I'm trying to see, OK, my token, I miss the website is not playing friendly with me right now. I don't know why I was trying to see.
• 55:07
  What the, if there was any more issuance of supply coming out or what if it's totally no, it's it's 100% unlocked, which figures. OK, so you have to worry about the inflation.
• 55:19
  When it comes to like having this be like a big portion of like my altcoin bag.
• 55:27
  No, you know, do I love uniswap when it does have I used uniswap in the past will I use it in the future? Yes.
• 55:36
  But there's just not enough here. I'm excited by the solution. I'm not excited about the token. I'll leave it at that. You know, yeah, interesting.
• 55:44
  Alex, did you say 3000% for TV all growth? It's more than that. OK, because I was looking over here on the llama. I had it up and I'll bring it back.
• 55:52
  And it looks like they may not be reporting on all of that. This pink line is TVL.
• 55:58
  Yeah, so I might my my assumption because if you go back and you look at the number that is being reported for uniswap covering 32 of the blockchains that it is.
• 56:19
  The current TVL, which is also. Oh, OK, I got it. I got it. I figured out why the number was so high.
• 56:27
  This number specifically is uniswap TVL on unichain specifically, which is currently at $326 million. So I think they're just doing what coin base did for base when it went to $10 billion.
• 56:44
  And the first TVL, they're they're shuffling, they're shuffling around their reallocating funds to boost the ecosystem, which to be very.
• 56:52
  I'm not upset about it. Because the actual number is 11,663% TVL increase in one month on uniswap by a unichain, which just means to me that uniswap is moving some of its money over because they have billions of dollars of TVL.
• 57:13
  At the start of April, $2.5 million to today, $332 million TVL, nothing to shake a stick at.
• 57:22
  No, but also a drop in the bucket compared to uniswap's overall TVL. So like that's kind of why I'm a little bit more excited about it because that is like a blip in the over. I mean, what's the total for all of the three points, something billion. I think it was $3.68.
• 57:39
  $2.85 billion across all the versions. Shucks. And only 200 million off. I love that response.
• 57:47
  So I mean, I don't know that's that's kind of why I'm that's kind of like because like they have the name.
• 57:54
  They are in that like dyno category, but relevant. We'll say that you've had a lot of you've had a lot of dino coins do well.
• 58:03
  We'll set it himself right now. Is he super excited about like the state of the chart or adding it in a huge way? No. Is he going to continue is he going to continue using the protocol all the time? Yes.
• 58:18
  Like it's it's it's I it grinds my years that we say like, okay, well, am I going to use this product in the web three space all the time forever? Yeah.
• 58:29
  As a bad thing. I didn't say it as a bad. You're like bummed out about it. You're like, am I going to make a big all-point back here? No. Am I going to use this thing? Yeah.
• 58:43
  Because I want to make money. Damn it. I know. But the solution helps me make money. The solution helps you make money because it's a fucking product with product market fit in the crypto space. Like we can't pass it out. How much revenue are they making?
• 58:56
  Let's take a let's take a guess here. I can't guess because I revenue and good businesses don't matter. Complementals.
• 59:06
  Listen, complimentals don't get me. I need it. Annualized fees. $640 million in fees are generated every single year on that platform. Hey, Eunice Wapyu, Hyron. That's.
• 59:20
  Can you. Eunice Wapyu Hyron. Eunice Wapyu Adopted. Yeah, right? Just.
• 59:25
  Listen, you might have a bigger sale both in Will's sailing families all in sand. I think they might. Okay. So your friends are my sailing friends.
• 59:32
  You're sailing friends. That's right. My family. Maybe, maybe Eunice Wap. I played. I played cryptocurrency game with a couple of them on Unichained. And maybe we can get them.
• 59:42
  We need to get somebody from Unice Wap on the show. We've talked to a bunch of their people. Our friend Lindsey is good friends with a lot of them.
• 59:47
  It is our goal. And we will put you in touch with them. But for now, I think we should give them a grade. I hear we'll get the marker out of that.
• 59:54
  I will take the onus and go first and say, I'm going to give it a B plus. Maybe I was I was really teeter and on an A minus man.
• 1:00:06
  This is looking at me and I I am thinking of B plus because I would like to see a little more poop. I'm probably going to buy some full transparency. I would find the money to buy it. But my list is full. You know, it's not imminent. Well, I can't. I can't see your camera on tick-tock. You have it on.
• 1:00:23
  I forgot to hit the save button. I forgot. I know that. Okay. What's your grade?
• 1:00:31
  I thought I had more time. Okay, Alex. That's your grade. I do. Listen, I'm giving it. I'll be more objective and I won't let so much bias come through. I will give it the A minus because this is a thing that makes revenue. It's a thing that has been working for years.
• 1:00:51
  It's a thing that brought something new to the table when they drop their chain and they're using an existing token. It's been around for years. They didn't have to pump some new pile of crap. There's no fresh TGE to worry about with sketchy tokenomics and some crazy VC unlock schedule.
• 1:01:05
  And product market fit. That's it. Revenue product market fit.
• 1:01:12
  Yeah, the model.
• 1:01:15
  Will he said he's going for it. He's going for it. He's going for it. He's giving it a C plus.
• 1:01:30
  Oh my god. You know, you know, you know, I don't know. I need you to know. I need you to know.
• 1:01:40
  - Action.
• 1:01:40
  Ax DAWR.
• 1:01:42
  - No, no.
• 1:01:43
  - He said, oh, oh.
• 1:01:44
  - The thing is is, like you said, I love the solution.
• 1:01:46
  I tend to stay away from dinosaur coins that had been around for a while, even though we've had some that really popped off and done great.
• 1:01:54
  But the thing is, is like those coins, for the most part, had like super strong communities online.
• 1:02:01
  Like, I'm just talking about Unuswap as an investment, right?
• 1:02:05
  The solution is phenomenal, it's great.
• 1:02:06
  It's gonna be around for forever.
• 1:02:07
  I hope it's around for forever.
• 1:02:08
  I'll keep using it, it's great.
• 1:02:09
  But, purely from an investment, C+'cause like if you look at the Cardano's, if you look at the XRP is the prime example, if you look at the Algo Rand, you have pretty rabid communities.
• 1:02:24
  I'd say XRP has the most rabid then there's Cardano and then, you know, Algo Rand further down, led by Cosmic.
• 1:02:30
  I hope you're here, buddy.
• 1:02:31
  But, you know, I don't really get the sense that Unuswap has like a frothing at the mouth frantic community that I think is the difference maker in what makes the crypto itself go up in value for a dinosaur coin.
• 1:02:47
  A whole bunch of people getting excited online, talking about it, new people rushing in, what's this thing?
• 1:02:51
  Let me buy it.
• 1:02:52
  Oh, it's the first one.
• 1:02:53
  It's great people use it, has all this TV.
• 1:02:54
  You know, then people would be, get really exciting.
• 1:02:57
  But, for me from an investment standpoint, it's missing that initial kind of big bang moment.
• 1:03:02
  That special sauce, which is just like a certain, like,- I shouldn't say, "Quah."- Incredibly autistic, crypto people who love one thing, only and only one thing,'cause they think it's like the new, it's the new, it's the new thing, you know?
• 1:03:17
  - I would say, they do have a really fervent community, but a lot of them are tireder than Alex and have been here since Bitcoin was born, and they just don't wanna show up in public.
• 1:03:26
  And that's gonna be a hurdle for them, is getting that community of people to start talking to everyday users and like stop, you know, just stroking each other's egos at a pizza-dow party wearing their unisox.
• 1:03:38
  (laughs) No shade to that though, 'cause that's a fun time.
• 1:03:41
  - And here's the thing, I don't think the unisop team really gives a crap about the price of the token, right?
• 1:03:46
  They're here to build, they're building a solution, they are doing exactly what they've set up to do, and God bless them, right?
• 1:03:51
  - That makes me happy.
• 1:03:53
  - The space is better off for it.
• 1:03:54
  Yes, that's why they got a plus on the seat.
• 1:03:56
  (laughs)- It would ignite the entire community.
• 1:04:08
  Everyone would be talking about it.
• 1:04:09
  - Are you talking about your free hoodie?
• 1:04:11
  Utility or like a--- I don't know, some extra use of the unit token in the uniblock chain, something that would drive demand for uniswap, that would match the increased demand in usage and adoption of the uniblock chain, right?
• 1:04:28
  'Cause right now it's just staking.
• 1:04:29
  And staking's great, but, you know, something else added on top, because that's the biggest thing that the uniswap community has been asking for over the years was give us something more than just governance.
• 1:04:41
  Now staking's turned on, cool great, that's something, but like everyone has, I don't know, just something that would be nice.
• 1:04:49
  I'm just trying to think of something that would like really get like people pumped up and like rabbit and be like, oh my God, we'll-- - We'll swap it to the smooth thing, yeah.
• 1:04:55
  - Jeff solved it, he said in the comments, maybe get Jesse from base to do some advertising for them.
• 1:05:00
  (laughs)- Oh boy.
• 1:05:02
  - Run, you just swap, run.
• 1:05:04
  - Hey, do you have $50 to get on chain?
• 1:05:06
  (laughs)- Ace, please go to PR team.
• 1:05:09
  (laughs)- Okay, so, you just swap grades.
• 1:05:12
  Solom in the comments gave it a B plus.
• 1:05:15
  He agreed with me and he's playing a drinking game down there said, a new rule I've established is, when you and a host agree on a grade, you have to do two shots and I have to say thank God I'm drinking tea because according to his rules, I would already be under the table.
• 1:05:28
  But I'd like to hear what everyone else says.
• 1:05:30
  - There's a new blocker.
• 1:05:31
  - Moonshine?
• 1:05:32
  - Who knows?
• 1:05:33
  - White lightning.
• 1:05:34
  (laughs)- Seeing is how I know how little Alex can drink.
• 1:05:38
  (laughs)- It's true.
• 1:05:41
  - I'm gonna go with water.
• 1:05:42
  - Watch true.
• 1:05:43
  - But hey, you mentioned it money at the bar.
• 1:05:44
  - You mentioned it will, you said axel are in jest, but I feel like that'd be a fine place to go next.
• 1:05:49
  How do you feel about it?
• 1:05:51
  Okay, I've got it pulled up and I'm happy to give just a refresher.
• 1:05:54
  And then when are we getting them on the show?
• 1:05:57
  Didn't we talk to Galen?
• 1:05:58
  Are we getting someone there?
• 1:05:59
  And we just put it on hiatus.
• 1:06:01
  - It's true.
• 1:06:02
  - Yeah, I'll follow up with them tomorrow actually.
• 1:06:06
  Or actually, no, we, yeah, we'll talk about tomorrow.
• 1:06:08
  But yes, we should have someone from Axelar on the team eventually.
• 1:06:11
  - So what about their skiing buddies?
• 1:06:13
  - Yeah, what do you think about them?
• 1:06:15
  - Galen's great.
• 1:06:16
  Then we met them at East Denver and there's two gentlemen, I forget the other guy's name, but Galen was there and he's my skiing buddy.
• 1:06:24
  And we were just chatting up for an hour about skiing and being a couple cool guys.
• 1:06:29
  - They do both look like cool guys.
• 1:06:32
  To be fair.
• 1:06:33
  - Galen was dope.
• 1:06:34
  Galen was sick.
• 1:06:35
  I liked him a lot.
• 1:06:36
  He was a good dude.
• 1:06:37
  But no, I mean, Evan, do you want me to do the overview and axelar?
• 1:06:40
  - Go for it.
• 1:06:41
  Go for it.
• 1:06:42
  - Absolutely.
• 1:06:43
  And I'll pull up a little screen share for you as the website, okay, why you're doing it?
• 1:06:45
  - Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:06:45
  So axelar, basically think of it as something that helps connect a crypto project to another crypto project.
• 1:06:52
  It does that work for them.
• 1:06:53
  So think of it as like a bridge of sort or a data integrator is the way that I think about it with my kind of IT brain, I'm in sales, but I work with IT organizations.
• 1:07:04
  And so anyway, uniswap actually uses axelar in order to connect uniswap with file coin for data storage and that is not the only big name that they have.
• 1:07:16
  If you go down on their website, by the way, their website looks awesome.
• 1:07:18
  I think it's been updated since the last time I was on it.
• 1:07:20
  - They do have some pretty cool looking stuff.
• 1:07:23
  - Yeah, but if you go and you look at all the people who use axelar, it's every big name in the space across 69 plus blockchains, that was perfect timing.
• 1:07:33
  So the adoption of axelars, truly fantastic phenomenal stellar, and pretty much every positive word you could use under the sun.
• 1:07:46
  It's a key piece of infrastructure that helps to make the web through crypto space actually work.
• 1:07:51
  So in that sense, I put it in the same category as chain link where it's basically if axelar goes down, like crypto web three goes down right now at this point, you know, at least in a lot of its functionality.
• 1:08:04
  So it's an incredibly important piece to the space.
• 1:08:07
  Everyone should know about it.
• 1:08:09
  And I feel like that finally started to happen in the past like eight, nine, 12 months or so.
• 1:08:15
  - Yeah, they've gotten a lot of mine share and it's a tough to define metric, but it's a really important one is how do people know you?
• 1:08:21
  Are you known?
• 1:08:22
  And who are those people that have your name in their mouths?
• 1:08:24
  It also, I think is worth mentioning about the token that it's got a couple of different purposes, okay?
• 1:08:30
  You pay transaction fees with the axel token so it's also a coin.
• 1:08:34
  It can be staked to secure the network, earn rewards for people who participate in staking and it's a governance token.
• 1:08:40
  So it's kind of that classic trifecta that we see in a lot of different tokens that are their own network coin.
• 1:08:46
  As of April 23rd, it's trading at about 33 cents of token that's today.
• 1:08:50
  Unless you're in the future with a market capitalization of around 310 million, unless also you're in the past, in which case that would be really weird'cause you're totally time traveling and you gotta call me, man.
• 1:09:02
  The token has increased 13% in the last week, but it's down about 22% in the last month.
• 1:09:10
  They had a network upgrade to something called cobalt.
• 1:09:12
  Don't know exactly what it did, supposedly enhanced the tokenomics and expanded the tokens utility.
• 1:09:17
  They've had, as well said, a number of important partnerships, not just in blockchain, but beyond.
• 1:09:22
  It's flashed on the screen there, but JP Morgan, their Onyx digital assets and Lido used them to bring world assets staking on chain.
• 1:09:33
  It's definitely positioning itself as a foundational Web3 interoperability layer, but I've gotta be completely honest with you.
• 1:09:40
  I haven't paid much attention to the token or the ecosystem growth personally.
• 1:09:44
  I was kind of waiting to hear more from them and to take a closer look'cause the episode of AfterDark that I was on, I was not on where you guys talked about it, I was not on.
• 1:09:52
  I can't talk to them.
• 1:09:53
  You know what I'm saying?
• 1:09:55
  - I'm thinking of what you're putting down.
• 1:09:56
  - I can't put them put down.
• 1:09:58
  What are you saying, Alex?
• 1:09:59
  - Okay, so I'm just gonna dejargon what this thing is from it 'cause it is actually really cool and it's actually an important use case.
• 1:10:07
  An easy way to think about Axelar is that in the Web3 space, it kind of functions like TCP IP in the Web2 space.
• 1:10:19
  - You just dejargon my jargon with jargon.
• 1:10:21
  - What's true?
• 1:10:23
  - I have to say the term before I can define it.
• 1:10:26
  - Okay, okay, okay.
• 1:10:27
  So what the hell is TCP IP is what I was going to say before?
• 1:10:32
  - You were so rudely interrupted.
• 1:10:34
  - Before I've said, - I've rugged.
• 1:10:37
  This is basically just like a fancy jargon term for how the internet works behind the scenes.
• 1:10:42
  Think about it like in Willy Wonka when MikeTV gets sent from one side of the room to the other and red, he accidentally comes out smaller, but the way that it works is that he gets taken apart into lots of little tiny, eatabitty pieces and then sent across the room and reassembled on the other side.
• 1:11:01
  The internet does that with stuff that you're sending behind the scenes.
• 1:11:06
  So when I send Evan an email, he is not, I'm not like physically packaging up this big block of data and then it traveling on one road to get to Evan.
• 1:11:18
  There's a gajillion routes that data can take across the internet and this stuff gets fragments that gets broken up and then gets sent on whatever route is fastest and it gets rebuilt and reassembled on the other side just like MikeTV in Willy Wonka.
• 1:11:32
  There you go, thank you.
• 1:11:33
  - You should always be a good digital citizen.
• 1:11:35
  No, that doesn't mean you should transport yourself into the TV, MikeTV is what the Willy Wonka me and my pulled up says.
• 1:11:41
  (bell ringing)- So that's kind of what Axelar does, but in the crypto space, it makes it so that things that need to be sent from one crypto project to another do it safely.
• 1:11:55
  So the risks associated with this are that bridging is still kind of a risky business.
• 1:12:00
  Exploits happen on bridges, there's problems with it, especially when you're sending tokens from one network to another because that usually implies it's gotta get locked up somewhere and then reminted somewhere else and then re-locked on the other side if you wanna come back and then unlocked over here, there's a lot of fail points.
• 1:12:16
  So it's kind of newer, it's riskier, a lot of the big exploits.
• 1:12:20
  In fact, I would say probably all of the gigantic exploits that have happened have happened around bridging.
• 1:12:25
  And then of course, it's kind of cumbersome.
• 1:12:28
  It's, but this is not like a B2C, this is not a thing that like you and I are necessarily needing to use at scale every single day.
• 1:12:35
  So it's for companies to use with other companies.
• 1:12:38
  It's a B2B product in that sense, it's very important.
• 1:12:43
  So that's kind of why I'm a fan of it because it's understandable, people need it and a lot of them are using it.
• 1:12:50
  - So how do we feel about it as investment?
• 1:12:53
  - Oh, I have no idea.
• 1:12:54
  I'm not good at talking about investing.
• 1:12:56
  - Did they take BC funding?
• 1:12:57
  Do we know?
• 1:12:58
  - Probably.
• 1:12:59
  - Go ahead, bro.
• 1:13:00
  - I can find that.
• 1:13:02
  - I mean, I was just looking at the chart.
• 1:13:03
  I mean, like if you look at the time where the crypto markets were the hottest.
• 1:13:06
  So if you go like, this is at least on axelars chart.
• 1:13:09
  Like I had a bottom in August of 2024 and then it hit a high at the same time as you know, just about everything did around December of 2024.
• 1:13:17
  And it had a 212% return, which is good.
• 1:13:21
  Of course, in fact, in the world of traditional finance, it's awesome.
• 1:13:26
  - Amazing.
• 1:13:27
  - Yeah.
• 1:13:28
  - But like you know, in the crypto space at the height of a bull run, you know, there's a bunch of other things that did you know, much, much, much better.
• 1:13:34
  So, you know, obviously you can make a lot of money on this 212% is nothing.
• 1:13:37
  Nothing to sneeze at.
• 1:13:39
  But in the crypto space, there are things that really outperformed it by quite a bit.
• 1:13:44
  But as we all know, this Altcoin season was,- Scissor.
• 1:13:50
  - Was a very hard fought one in terms of where you made your profits.
• 1:13:56
  It was either you went into like a handful of old dinosaur coins and made a killing or you got lucky on some meme coins, made a killing.
• 1:14:03
  And then on the other coins, other utility coins, maybe made 200% to 300% a few time things perfectly, but were outperformed by those others.
• 1:14:14
  So, axelar in terms of as an investment, as with everything you can make money off of it, it is a high enough market cap with enough volume in finance and also coin base, the two biggest centralized exchanges for you to be able to do what you want, no matter, you know, you don't have to worry about a lack of liquidity or anything.
• 1:14:32
  But, you know, it's not really impressing me with the pumpamentals aspect of it, but I love what it is, I love what it does.
• 1:14:41
  - I noted that Monib, I wanted to shout him out, said that they did take VC money.
• 1:14:47
  So, thank you Monib for the assist in the chat.
• 1:14:50
  I was just looking up to see who their top holders were because it looks like most of their supply is released in a circulation about 90%.
• 1:14:56
  Go ahead, Alex, you got a point and I'll look that up.
• 1:14:58
  Yep, so seed round was 3.75 million with participation from Binance, DC VC and a few others.
• 1:15:06
  The series A was another 25 million, which was led by Polychain Capital and also included like Dragonfly and Galaxy Digital, some big names.
• 1:15:15
  And then strategic token investments, this is the thing, Evan has lots of content warning you about.
• 1:15:21
  $30 million from firms like Arlington Capital, Electric Capital, a couple others that I have never heard of.
• 1:15:28
  And then like I find out there are some, there's a regular unlock investing and all that kind of stuff that goes along with deals like that.
• 1:15:38
  So overall, they've secured over $93 million in funding across multiple rounds.
• 1:15:45
  And, but I will say that one of the things that they did with that is build and launch a $60 million ecosystem startup fund.
• 1:15:53
  So it looks like a pretty significant amount of that money is going back into hopefully incentivized builders to come over and do stuff.
• 1:16:00
  I think my hold up there then just becomes that when you are so hardcore into the B2B space, running an ecosystem fund is great.
• 1:16:11
  It's like one of my bare minimums if you are an ecosystem and you are not running a grants program, I couldn't be less interested in you.
• 1:16:19
  And there's only like two or three that aren't running one for the record.
• 1:16:23
  And I just don't know how appetizing this is.
• 1:16:27
  Like, I don't know who necessarily are the targets for this.
• 1:16:29
  I would have to dig into like their grants application like who are they encouraging to apply and all that kind of stuff, which would be great questions for Gail and her whoever from the team we managed to have join us on the show.
• 1:16:40
  But there you go.
• 1:16:41
  Pretty significant fundraise.
• 1:16:43
  - Where would you guys go to look up top holders?
• 1:16:47
  I'm just having a blank or a brain fart.
• 1:16:49
  This is a coin get co thing, isn't it?
• 1:16:51
  - No.
• 1:16:52
  I mean, there's axelarscan.io.
• 1:16:55
  - So that's where I was just a second to go on the screen share.
• 1:16:57
  And they had a lot of stats, but I could not find one about top holders specifically.
• 1:17:01
  - They also have top users.
• 1:17:02
  - So let me see if it's on there.
• 1:17:04
  - I wasn't sure that that was the right token because I pulled that up first.
• 1:17:09
  It said they only have a coin market cap for it.
• 1:17:11
  So you think that's right.
• 1:17:12
  - Oh, it is okay, great.
• 1:17:12
  That's a good verification.
• 1:17:13
  Do you see the one with 9,600 holders?
• 1:17:17
  Unchain market cap 45 million?
• 1:17:21
  Does it look like the one I'm about to show on the screen?
• 1:17:24
  - 9,659 holders.
• 1:17:26
  - Yeah, which seems-- - Onchain market cap 45 million.
• 1:17:30
  Seems low because the market cap is 307 million.
• 1:17:35
  This doesn't seem like the right token.
• 1:17:37
  But it's on the credit.
• 1:17:38
  - That's close to the correct market cap.
• 1:17:40
  But really through me off was the transfers.
• 1:17:42
  The last one was seven minutes ago, then 11 minutes ago, like, I don't know.
• 1:17:46
  That's not a lot of user activity, like I would expect to see and the top holders. Maybe this is just for, like, on-eat chain.
• 1:17:53
  - You heard her, that's what it has to be.
• 1:17:56
  - Oh, okay, okay, I'm sorry.
• 1:17:57
  Have I heard what?
• 1:17:58
  - Have you ever heard of coin-carp?
• 1:18:00
  - I just saw that in the search results too.
• 1:18:02
  I've never heard of it, but tell me what they say.
• 1:18:04
  - Yeah, so this seems to, I really like this dashboard.
• 1:18:07
  I've never heard of this website before, but so the, here, I'll toss it up.
• 1:18:12
  - Go ahead.
• 1:18:13
  I'm gonna keep digging over here.
• 1:18:14
  - This sounds about right.
• 1:18:17
  The numbers on this seem to line up.
• 1:18:19
  So total market cap of just over 300 million dollars with a fully deluded valuation of 389 million, is that sound about right?
• 1:18:29
  24 hour volume, seven and a half million dollars.
• 1:18:32
  - Yeah.
• 1:18:33
  - This is sort of good.
• 1:18:34
  - I have total volume here of 10 million, but close enough.
• 1:18:37
  - More close.
• 1:18:38
  - So here's, this is kinda neat.
• 1:18:40
  So here's, this is kinda tiny, but exchange statistics.
• 1:18:43
  Hoop, there we go.
• 1:18:45
  So Binance seems to be the leader by a lot.
• 1:18:49
  As they say, a country mile followed by Bybit in second place.
• 1:18:55
  And then we've got just all of the others here.
• 1:19:01
  So see holders.
• 1:19:03
  Okay, here we go.
• 1:19:04
  So you've got 18.18% sitting in this wallet.
• 1:19:09
  The one thing that does not, okay, so this is flagged as being Binance.
• 1:19:13
  So there's two wallets that are bigger.
• 1:19:16
  This one is turning out.
• 1:19:17
  - I wasn't sure if those were some kind of team wallet.
• 1:19:19
  - I'm thinking that this is probably like the main one that is besting because it's got the biggest negative change.
• 1:19:26
  - I would take this for people who are curious about this and especially people listening to the podcast, we're looking at blockchain, on-chain data, using some blockchain explorers.
• 1:19:33
  This is one of the most important skills and cryptos to be able to search for this information.
• 1:19:37
  It's not intuitive, but it's also not hard.
• 1:19:42
  And we have a really good video on YouTube that'll help you get started, but there are good resources.
• 1:19:46
  How to read a blockchain explorer on the Facebook Lives page.
• 1:19:49
  Check that out, then come to the discord with your questions because where I would go next is the Axelar Scan website and see if one of these addresses matches like one of their partners who's doing a lot of their chain movement.
• 1:20:01
  You know what I mean?
• 1:20:02
  Like some of their partners are token holders of a significant size.
• 1:20:04
  Probably somebody like Lido has a lot of their tokens to do on-chain transfers all the time.
• 1:20:11
  So I'd be curious to know that.
• 1:20:13
  What's also interesting to notice, I'm on Axelar Scan is that when it comes to volume of cross-chain activity, by a country mile, it is BNB chain and say, and specifically, volume between those two leading the way in a huge way.
• 1:20:31
  But it's interesting that say and BNB are connected so aggressively on Axelar for volume.
• 1:20:38
  And then there's also an interesting connection between Osmosis and Ethereum in both directions with volume going back and forth.
• 1:20:48
  But when it comes to total transactions, you have a little bit of a, it's more of an even pairing across all the various blockchains that they have.
• 1:20:58
  So I don't know, it's interesting how that's worked out.
• 1:21:01
  - Yeah, and I want to know to see further what they're using that for.
• 1:21:07
  Because in our space, people have manufactured token volume to create fees, to create volume, to generate pumps like market makers, B-Macon markets.
• 1:21:17
  That is a documented thing here.
• 1:21:20
  - And when it comes to just pure transactions, so you're getting away from potential big money being put through one time, right?
• 1:21:28
  You are looking at polygon and BNB chain as being the leaders of Axelar usage.
• 1:21:37
  Arbitrums really high up there as well.
• 1:21:40
  And Osmosis is pretty high up there.
• 1:21:43
  But polygon and BNB look the biggest.
• 1:21:45
  - And the first thing I'd look at, if I was looking closer, is I'd want to see like this to me based on what Axelar does indicates that there's a lot of active cross chain transactions facilitated by Axelar between BNB and say Ethereum and Osmosis.
• 1:22:00
  And it could be DeFi services.
• 1:22:03
  It could be integration of stablecoins into their ecosystem.
• 1:22:08
  I mean, there's lots of different things that are legitimate that it really could be.
• 1:22:11
  But I'd need to know more before I could say I was really bullish or bearish.
• 1:22:14
  - Fair enough.
• 1:22:17
  Yeah.
• 1:22:19
  I'm just pretty jazzed about this website coincarpe that I've never heard of before.
• 1:22:25
  It looks like for those of you who aren't able to see the screen, the part that I'm enjoying is just kind of the way that the information is laid out.
• 1:22:34
  So it kind of looks like a little bit cleaner, more like, I don't wanna say graphic heavy'cause there's no images really.
• 1:22:41
  It's just the nicer layout with a little bit better UI of your traditional blockchain explorer.
• 1:22:45
  It looks a little bit more like what I would call a typical browsing experience, which is kind of the direction I would like to see blockchain explorers go that just make it a little bit easier to parse through all of the data that they're presenting, which is all good stuff.
• 1:22:56
  And like Evan said, it's the most important skilling crypto.
• 1:22:58
  Learn how to read the data from the chain itself.
• 1:23:02
  But up here at the top, they've just got like a really nice layout for all of these tags.
• 1:23:07
  You've got your like important links right here, which I've actually never seen a direct link labeled with source code, which is nice.
• 1:23:13
  Usually it just calls it the GitHub, which can be kind of misleading.
• 1:23:16
  You never know which repo you're going to there.
• 1:23:19
  Then the white paper, obviously, we've got social links up here, link to their medium, which is nice.
• 1:23:23
  And then tags, so where are we?
• 1:23:26
  So we've got these different portfolios here, contract address, more that the VC portfolios that are currently invested in and holding it.
• 1:23:35
  So Polychain Capital, Binance, Labs, Coinbase, Ventures, all tagged, which probably just means you can sort through it here.
• 1:23:42
  This down here, this is the rich list, which is the holders.
• 1:23:46
  - Love the name of that feature.
• 1:23:47
  - Right.
• 1:23:48
  This is the top holders right here.
• 1:23:50
  Could tab right over here to fundraising.
• 1:23:54
  And here you go.
• 1:23:54
  Here's all of that information that we were talking about with regards to who invested how much and when and shout out to CoinCarp, because this is a thing I've been looking for that is pagated on websites like CrunchBase, which is a bummer.
• 1:24:09
  And CrunchBase used to have it for free, but now they don't anymore.
• 1:24:12
  And it looks, I mean, I'm not even logged into something I didn't have to make an account or anything to read all of this, which is sweet.
• 1:24:18
  Not sponsored by CoinCarp, but like, hey, maybe I'll...
• 1:24:22
  - Can we just collect the trifecta of animal sponsors?
• 1:24:26
  Can we collect?
• 1:24:27
  - Carp, CoinGecko and DeFi Lama.
• 1:24:29
  I would be happy as a clamp.
• 1:24:31
  - Oh, that's an interesting trend.
• 1:24:33
  - Yeah, right.
• 1:24:34
  - You know, I mean, and they're kind of odd animals.
• 1:24:36
  Gecko's Lamas and Carps, who to thung it, but they're all stars.
• 1:24:39
  - Dude, for real.
• 1:24:40
  - I know, I just, I'm gonna pump it up around this a little bit more, because there's so much more that here's a straight...
• 1:24:45
  - Oh yeah, it's just...
• 1:24:46
  - Just with the token on my website.
• 1:24:47
  - With graphics, this is awesome.
• 1:24:49
  I'm a big fan of this.
• 1:24:51
  - Okay, we've talked enough about it.
• 1:24:54
  How about we give it a grade?
• 1:24:55
  Even though last time we gave it a...
• 1:24:57
  I think you guys gave it an A or an A minus.
• 1:24:59
  I'm curious mostly to see how your grades have changed, and I'm grading it for the first time.
• 1:25:05
  I need some time to think about it.
• 1:25:06
  On this one, Alex, you wanna go first?
• 1:25:08
  - Sure.
• 1:25:09
  Yeah, so just to not sell it if you missed it, the spiel service, obviously necessary.
• 1:25:17
  There is demand for it.
• 1:25:18
  It has adoption.
• 1:25:20
  All of these are good.
• 1:25:22
  These are good things.
• 1:25:23
  I would note the concerns about kind of this, what I would call the standard model.
• 1:25:29
  Hepti-rays, lots of VC involvement, Vesting tokens, diluted valuation, higher than market cap.
• 1:25:38
  They don't lose any points for that, because that's basically everybody.
• 1:25:41
  I actually don't remember all of my grades for it, but based just on today and all this kind of stuff, and again, my grades never really consider the chart too much because I don't care.
• 1:25:53
  It's still in B.
• 1:25:56
  It's still, I'm gonna stick with a flat B, just because I really like it.
• 1:26:00
  I understand why it exists.
• 1:26:04
  The token makes sense to me.
• 1:26:06
  I wish that maybe some of the model was a little bit different, but overall, it's a product that has achieved product market fit in the B2B space in crypto, and that deserves points.
• 1:26:16
  - Deserves points, but the things are hard to come by here.
• 1:26:22
  So...
• 1:26:23
  - Wait, I put the grade under Evan's name.
• 1:26:28
  - Oh, that's okay, that's okay.
• 1:26:29
  - Will you have one job?
• 1:26:31
  - I'm sorry.
• 1:26:32
  - I think I've given more than one B plus tonight.
• 1:26:36
  I think I gave you the swap of B plus.
• 1:26:38
  - The D gave it plus and you gave it Tawa B.
• 1:26:40
  - I'm thinking I might give it another B plus, because I agree with everything Alex said, and I think for that reason, it could also be interesting to consider as an investment too.
• 1:26:53
  I'm needed to hear from the axel art team before I send them a check for my tokens.
• 1:26:58
  Or bet you will.
• 1:26:59
  - I'm going with a straight B.
• 1:27:01
  - Straight as well.
• 1:27:02
  We're all across the board right there.
• 1:27:04
  And for me, it's just, hang on, one of the walk-on.
• 1:27:08
  Yeah, for me, it is...
• 1:27:14
  I love what they do.
• 1:27:15
  I love something that's an incredibly important and key piece of infrastructure in the space.
• 1:27:20
  Having it B, B to B is, I think, it's just looking at it as an investment, a little bit of a ding against it.
• 1:27:29
  But I do like it.
• 1:27:31
  It has market, mind share in the space right now.
• 1:27:34
  If it can get going, it can get going.
• 1:27:36
  Pretty hot. - Pretty hot and hard.
• 1:27:38
  Pretty hot and hard, maybe.
• 1:27:42
  - I just want to shout out Robert in the comments, who has taken the liberty to when you said, are they doing good work?
• 1:27:51
  Ding, let's give them a point.
• 1:27:52
  So people are giving out points left and right.
• 1:27:54
  If you want a point from us, all you got to do is ask for it or make a valuable contribution to the conversation.
• 1:27:59
  And that can come in the form of likes, shares, witty comments, good jokes, words of wisdom.
• 1:28:05
  Let us know if you bought the new Rise Up Morning Show mug or something like that.
• 1:28:08
  We can probably find a point in our bag for you.
• 1:28:10
  Oh, look, there's one there.
• 1:28:11
  So what do you think?
• 1:28:12
  I wouldn't be so sad if we went to Tarz Nix because I feel like I could do it quickly.
• 1:28:16
  We've got about 25 minutes left on our show.
• 1:28:19
  - Yeah, we can do Tarz quickly, I think.
• 1:28:22
  I'm just curious to see what's different about it.
• 1:28:24
  Also, Meredith Kramer, I was paid to make a video about them about six or so months ago.
• 1:28:30
  And I tore them to shreds, except I said one good thing about them and I said, I would never invest in the token.
• 1:28:37
  I told him before I was like, I'll accept your money if you let me, I'm gonna poke holes at everything.
• 1:28:42
  And they're like, yeah, sure.
• 1:28:43
  And I was like, okay.
• 1:28:47
  - All right, Evan.
• 1:28:48
  - Thank you.
• 1:28:50
  - So we'll maybe-- I will never buy this coin.
• 1:28:52
  (laughing)- Maybe would you start us off then with what that is like?
• 1:28:56
  I think it'd be really good for people, especially to hear these companies all rely on advertising.
• 1:29:03
  They rely on marketing to some extent, but how they approach it, though many of them approach it the same way, we've got a bunch of money.
• 1:29:08
  Let's pay a bunch of influencers to talk about us.
• 1:29:10
  I think it really reveals a lot about like their Biz Dev, their strategy, how they go to market.
• 1:29:15
  And ask people to talk about it and how they talk to those people.
• 1:29:18
  So can you talk about that experience and just give us your feedback on it?
• 1:29:22
  How did they approach you?
• 1:29:23
  What was the ask?
• 1:29:24
  Did they pay you well?
• 1:29:25
  And what was your impression of like working with them?
• 1:29:29
  - Yeah, I was, I mean like it wasn't much of a working relationship because they had hired somebody to go out and get a bunch of influencers, right?
• 1:29:40
  So they had a third party who was taking a cut on everything.
• 1:29:43
  So I forget how I got in touch with them.
• 1:29:45
  It was either through a telegram group or they were in my DMs on TikTok and my DMs weren't as underwater as they are now and I actually saw it.
• 1:29:56
  I was like, you know, sure, okay, let's talk.
• 1:29:58
  It was one of those two.
• 1:30:00
  And so they said, hey, we're doing a campaign with creators.
• 1:30:05
  We have a big push, Yada Yada.
• 1:30:07
  We wanna try to get content out before this date'cause I think the token was getting listed on some exchange or something was happening.
• 1:30:14
  I forget what it was.
• 1:30:15
  And so they said, hey, we want you to talk about like, XYZ things like these three things want you to mention, otherwise, you know, have at it.
• 1:30:23
  And those three things were things that I would talk about in an old pointer view anyway.
• 1:30:27
  So I was like, all right, cool, sure.
• 1:30:28
  It was something about like the team's latest development of whatever it was.
• 1:30:32
  I don't even remember what it is.
• 1:30:34
  You could look up my name in Tars AI and I'm sure the video will pop up on TikTok.
• 1:30:38
  And so when it came to working with the team, I didn't work with the team at all.
• 1:30:42
  Again, it's just, it's this third party person who is coordinating with all of the content creators.
• 1:30:49
  So you don't get to chat with the team.
• 1:30:50
  You don't get to ask questions to the team and any of that kind of stuff.
• 1:30:53
  They just say, hey, hear these things.
• 1:30:54
  Talk about them, make a video.
• 1:30:56
  Some people made videos and they said, hey, it's doing this and it's doing that and it's doing it.
• 1:31:00
  And I think Tars AI is cool.
• 1:31:02
  And that's what they did.
• 1:31:03
  And they took their money and went off.
• 1:31:05
  Some people went in extra layer in.
• 1:31:07
  And I made a 10 minute video, slice them and dice them that baby.
• 1:31:11
  So that was my experience.
• 1:31:13
  That's how they approached me.
• 1:31:15
  There was some haggling and negotiating.
• 1:31:17
  And I was like, I will accept this amount of money.
• 1:31:20
  And then they actually said, yes to it.
• 1:31:22
  And I was like, you do understand that I'm gonna say things about your token, right?
• 1:31:27
  And the person said, yeah, that's fine.
• 1:31:29
  We don't care.
• 1:31:30
  I was just like, oh, you literally just want people talking about it.
• 1:31:32
  You don't care if it's like this price or bad press.
• 1:31:34
  That's all I've done.
• 1:31:35
  I always wanted to share.
• 1:31:36
  My share is mine, share.
• 1:31:38
  And so anyway, and then Tars AI at the time.
• 1:31:41
  And I haven't looked at it since then.
• 1:31:42
  It's been five months or something like that, six months.
• 1:31:46
  At the time, it was another AI marketplace coin that I toured a shreds on Solana.
• 1:31:55
  And I was like, I think this is dumb.
• 1:31:57
  I think it's stupid.
• 1:31:59
  This is an anything advantageous to what you can get for your open source in the traditional webto space.
• 1:32:05
  But they also had another bit where I was like, this other bit that they barely market is the thing that is maybe useful, which is basically like a launch pad for other people in the Solana ecosystem to be able to create their own tokens and web3 organizations.
• 1:32:23
  That has some level of auditing on it because at the time, it was starting to get bad the amount of scam projects in Solana and that only escalated.
• 1:32:31
  So something out there that was trying to address a problem-- now, to be fair, this use case is not a new use case to the space.
• 1:32:39
  This launch pad kind of a thing that has auditing on it to add more trustworthiness to the credibility of that launch.
• 1:32:46
  That's not a rug bowl and things like that.
• 1:32:48
  That exists out there.
• 1:32:49
  But it was nice to see.
• 1:32:50
  And I gave Tars their do.
• 1:32:52
  It was like, this is useful.
• 1:32:53
  There's a need in the space.
• 1:32:55
  And a lot of coins can do well not by having to find a need and a pain point to address in the real world by finding a need and a pain point in crypto web3 world.
• 1:33:05
  If it's a big enough pain point, it could be very valuable.
• 1:33:08
  So those are the two sides of their business at that time.
• 1:33:11
  And they were really going heavy with the AI marketplace portion of it.
• 1:33:16
  And I really kind of took a big poo poo on that.
• 1:33:20
  But I did say, pay this other piece is nice.
• 1:33:22
  But I would never own the coin because I just don't think it really had the likes.
• 1:33:27
  And when you have a big influencer-driven campaign, it does kind of give you a little bit of a window into how the organization is run and what they value.
• 1:33:35
  And it's more of a pump and dump kind of a vibe.
• 1:33:40
  I think we all kind of pick up on that.
• 1:33:42
  Yeah, that's the vibe I get.
• 1:33:43
  I've got their website on the screen share.
• 1:33:45
  And this claim that they make here, every tokenized agent deployed on the Tars AI market launches on a native bonding curve.
• 1:33:54
  So you can create an agent here.
• 1:33:57
  And their token is used for transactions and rewards within this ecosystem.
• 1:34:02
  And it's a lot like pumped out fund for AI agents, which is not to similar to virtual's protocol, which is not to similar to XYZ, ABC, you name it.
• 1:34:12
  And the claim they make is paired with a native token liquidity.
• 1:34:15
  This makes Tars the backbone of the entire AI economy.
• 1:34:18
  And I think that's taken it about 10 steps too far there.
• 1:34:22
  I think there's a lot of competition for this.
• 1:34:23
  And it kind of reminds me of Tau, but a different flavor, different kind of solution, different kind of token, different structured approach.
• 1:34:31
  But it seems like, let's give people some funny money to get them to build AI agents.
• 1:34:37
  We're part-- we're the only one on Salana.
• 1:34:39
  We were at the Google startup thing.
• 1:34:41
  I don't know.
• 1:34:41
  I don't know them personally, but the vibe I get is that this is maybe not a problem that the token should be used to solve.
• 1:34:49
  I never like solutions where they pay you in their token.
• 1:34:51
  That's the utility of the token is we're going to pay AI people or DSI people or whatever with this token.
• 1:34:57
  And then people also can speculate on it.
• 1:34:59
  So they've added the AI agent play.
• 1:35:00
  But again, that just kind of-- that wasn't their initial focus when Tars came out.
• 1:35:05
  Maybe it was on the roadmap.
• 1:35:06
  I'll give them that caveat.
• 1:35:08
  But it does seem like they just kind of added the AI agent piece to be like, hey, we're also in this trend.
• 1:35:15
  We're also here.
• 1:35:16
  Maybe it was their plan the whole time.
• 1:35:17
  I don't know.
• 1:35:18
  I didn't know the team.
• 1:35:19
  I didn't have a chance to chat with them.
• 1:35:21
  But yeah, I don't know.
• 1:35:24
  It just kind of gives me the PBGBs a little bit.
• 1:35:26
  But I think the chart was a pretty good one at the time.
• 1:35:32
  Yeah, sure.
• 1:35:33
  Let's take a look at it.
• 1:35:34
  I've got it right here on the screen here for you if you want to play along at home.
• 1:35:37
  Oh.
• 1:35:40
  How long until I get to talk about how much I hate this thing?
• 1:35:43
  Well, now that-- wait.
• 1:35:45
  Oh, Evan, you have the chart up.
• 1:35:47
  But I do like it on trading view.
• 1:35:50
  Switch me.
• 1:35:51
  Just because of the red is just-- Yeah.
• 1:35:53
  I did.
• 1:35:54
  Yeah.
• 1:35:55
  Evan just had that giddy little smile and laugh.
• 1:35:59
  Yeah.
• 1:36:00
  And there you have it, the fate of most influencer driven campaign coins.
• 1:36:07
  So Alex-- Yes.
• 1:36:09
  I will absolutely die on this.
• 1:36:10
  Yes.
• 1:36:11
  Take it away.
• 1:36:12
  Steaming pile of shit.
• 1:36:13
  This thing is so stupid.
• 1:36:15
  This token doesn't need to exist.
• 1:36:17
  It is a pump and dump through a buttload of different influencers, none of whom could tell you what it does if they're live dependent on it.
• 1:36:25
  And the whole thing is just falling into the ground.
• 1:36:29
  Like any project like this that doesn't use its blockchain's native token immediately is in my shit list.
• 1:36:36
  Like if they actually wanted to do something like this and they use native soul for their utility, that would have been 1,000% better than this piece of crap.
• 1:36:46
  But like-- Alex, for the people who aren't familiar with your approach on this-- Tell me why.
• 1:36:51
  Oh.
• 1:36:52
  Oh.
• 1:36:53
  Why use the native token instead of a new token?
• 1:36:56
  What is the benefit of the purpose?
• 1:36:58
  The benefit is that you actually support the ecosystem upon which your project depends.
• 1:37:03
  So if you're building something in a-- How could you say something so brave?
• 1:37:08
  I know.
• 1:37:09
  Yeah.
• 1:37:09
  Call me-- call me, I don't know.
• 1:37:12
  Apparently that's a radical idea or business idea.
• 1:37:16
  You share your work in Web3 because it seems like you have a soul.
• 1:37:19
  Dude, listen, I've hitched that in proposal meetings and in funding requests and grant applications to people in the Avalanche ecosystem, to people in-- let's see, I did it with Multi-Person X.
• 1:37:33
  I did it on Injective.
• 1:37:35
  I did it with Avalanche.
• 1:37:37
  And I did it with somebody else, the Solana.
• 1:37:40
  And every single time they're like, oh, wow.
• 1:37:43
  That's an interesting idea.
• 1:37:45
  I can't believe I'm the first person to say that to you.
• 1:37:48
  You've given out millions and millions and millions of dollars for no good reason.
• 1:37:52
  And I'm the first person to suggest that someone use your cryptocurrency.
• 1:37:55
  That should be a requirement if I'm giving you a grant that you bake in utility for the host ecosystems native currency.
• 1:38:03
  Just makes no sense to do anything else.
• 1:38:06
  So it's-- this token doesn't need to exist.
• 1:38:13
  The whole thing is a overhyped brochure of buzzwords.
• 1:38:18
  And nothing that I'm saying means that the token camp pump for Joe, who's telling me how much the token is up this week, which I have no idea if that's accurate or not.
• 1:38:26
  No, no, he's being sarcastic.
• 1:38:29
  OK.
• 1:38:30
  You know, bullshit can-- bullshit can pump all the time.
• 1:38:32
  It's really not that hard.
• 1:38:34
  Harry Potter, Harry Potter, Obamaconic, he knew it as-- Maybe he is right.
• 1:38:38
  --has had great days, too.
• 1:38:40
  He even knows-- Oh, he is right.
• 1:38:42
  It's up 108% over the past three days.
• 1:38:47
  But-- There you go.
• 1:38:49
  But wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
• 1:38:52
  The fact coincides-- It's high.
• 1:38:54
  It is still down 90%.
• 1:38:56
  Yeah, OK, just bullshit.
• 1:38:57
  There you go.
• 1:38:58
  And I would hazard a guess that perhaps there was another so-for-me-de-a-pipe campaign pump.
• 1:39:03
  And then because of how many people are horrendously underwater with that thing, they're just hoping in a brand.
• 1:39:10
  And tokens like this can get manipulated.
• 1:39:12
  So I don't know.
• 1:39:14
  It's a-- there's not enough sounds in the sound to explain what I think this piece of shit is.
• 1:39:23
  Well, for now, I'm going to give it a-- It's just stupid.
• 1:39:25
  And how do we feel about just giving it a-- as a grade?
• 1:39:29
  Yeah, just right, Guwump.
• 1:39:33
  I got to be a little more creative than that.
• 1:39:36
  Take your time and express your creativity.
• 1:39:37
  Give me a second.
• 1:39:38
  Give me a second.
• 1:39:39
  You guys can move on to Deep, though.
• 1:39:41
  Let's move on to Deep, look after.
• 1:39:42
  I give a quick point to Joe for the assist with crypto bubbles in the 99% stat.
• 1:39:48
  What you got, Al?
• 1:39:50
  For Deep.
• 1:39:52
  For Deep, are you ready?
• 1:39:53
  Because I've got the website pulled up.
• 1:39:55
  Do you want me to-- do you want to give the introduction?
• 1:39:58
  Sure.
• 1:39:59
  Yeah, so a couple quick stats for you.
• 1:40:02
  So we reviewed this one a little while ago.
• 1:40:05
  I don't remember which episode it was, but it was several months ago, at least.
• 1:40:10
  Deep book is a deep file liquidity protocol built in the SWE ecosystem.
• 1:40:15
  And obviously, SWE has had some time.
• 1:40:19
  It's been hot in the attention space across the industry.
• 1:40:26
  And Deep book, Stoken has kind of been super volatile.
• 1:40:31
  So I guess if you're in the business of doing some swing trading, then you may have done well.
• 1:40:37
  Notably, on the agenda, because it did like 45% this week, it's down pretty heavily today, which definitely makes sense for a smaller currency that just had a ridiculous run-up like that.
• 1:40:48
  Lots of people are escaping.
• 1:40:50
  But it's interesting.
• 1:40:53
  This is one of those that-- I know, I like that line-- setting the bar for liquidity, and trading, and DeFi, and making sure it's pretty damn high.
• 1:41:00
  What a great line on their website.
• 1:41:02
  I was like, man, they wrote that for you.
• 1:41:04
  [LAUGHTER] So this one is interesting.
• 1:41:08
  I don't know as much about the specifics of the token.
• 1:41:12
  I would worry that, again, it's one of those that really should just be using native Sway.
• 1:41:19
  And I just really wish that that was the norm.
• 1:41:22
  I really wish that that was just the thing.
• 1:41:24
  So I feel like this one is going to probably continue to make the rounds just because it's a hot ecosystem.
• 1:41:31
  They've got a lot of mine share right now.
• 1:41:33
  Sway's done very well.
• 1:41:35
  There's not a tremendous number of protocols over there.
• 1:41:38
  So your choices, if you're trying to niche down and go a little bit deeper than just buying Sway, there's not a ton.
• 1:41:46
  The big ones would be Navi, which we've also covered.
• 1:41:51
  Cedis, scallop, and then deep.
• 1:41:55
  There's a couple others that are around Sway lend and that kind of stuff.
• 1:41:59
  But in the terms of protocols with their own native token, there's really not a lot to choose from.
• 1:42:05
  So-- It's interesting.
• 1:42:07
  I'm going to pull it up on the line just so people can see a comparison.
• 1:42:10
  This is Sway Protocols.
• 1:42:12
  And for anybody who can't see it on the YouTube stream or on the podcast, you're going to need to just call Will and get you to send-- get him to send you a picture of his tarzai grade because-- There it is.
• 1:42:22
  I was just waiting for Alex to smirk.
• 1:42:24
  I was waiting for him to see the man stub his toe.
• 1:42:28
  That is a-- if I've ever heard one.
• 1:42:31
  It looks like for Sway your options towards the top are pretty strong.
• 1:42:37
  Sway lend with $509 million Navi with $430 million.
• 1:42:41
  This is TVL.
• 1:42:42
  And several others in the three figures.
• 1:42:44
  Deep book, a not-unrespectable but still modest $28 million in TVL, but the growth and change is pretty impressive, including a one-minute change of 48%.
• 1:42:58
  I don't know what's up with that.
• 1:42:59
  One month.
• 1:43:00
  Was that one month?
• 1:43:02
  I'm stuck in meme coin land, man.
• 1:43:04
  It's got to be one month, 48%.
• 1:43:06
  It is one month, yeah.
• 1:43:08
  That's a third section of it is one month.
• 1:43:10
  It would be weird to go from one day one week.
• 1:43:13
  That's what I said to myself.
• 1:43:14
  Why are we giving one minute candles on D-- I love them, but it's one month, guys.
• 1:43:20
  I'm not going to go on myself for it.
• 1:43:22
  It's $400 million market cap.
• 1:43:25
  So also respectable.
• 1:43:28
  I will say, I don't think that for this particular type of project, TVL is really not that important.
• 1:43:38
  It's not the metric.
• 1:43:39
  No, it's not the metric for it.
• 1:43:42
  Volume is the metric that I would be more concerned about.
• 1:43:45
  Feast generated revenue volume.
• 1:43:49
  This is not a DEX.
• 1:43:51
  There's no pooled liquidity sitting on this thing.
• 1:43:55
  It's an order book.
• 1:43:57
  It's meant to process trends.
• 1:43:58
  It's not holding the value.
• 1:44:00
  So that honestly checks out.
• 1:44:02
  And this is a really good point to highlight that TVL is really not the end all be all.
• 1:44:08
  It's really important for specific types of protocols.
• 1:44:12
  But you can't just blanket apply one metric to all things and call that the ultimate tell whether or not it's good.
• 1:44:20
  So I really wouldn't worry about the TVL with this one very much.
• 1:44:23
  It really doesn't matter.
• 1:44:25
  And if you'd like, I can give you a quick little notation of the token.
• 1:44:29
  I get to try out a new version of G-P-T while I give you the overview for all the different things that we're looking at.
• 1:44:33
  It's total supply, $10 billion.
• 1:44:36
  Circulating supply, $2.5 billion.
• 1:44:39
  Looks like there was an air drop, 10% of the supply.
• 1:44:42
  And it looks like Core contributors, aka VCs, early backers, builders, got almost 30%.
• 1:44:50
  So it could be kind of a heavy token from that perspective.
• 1:44:55
  But as you can see, the price is doing great recently.
• 1:44:58
  They've had a strong protocol upgrade that gave them permissionless pools, lower fees, deeper liquidity, enhanced the trading experience.
• 1:45:05
  And they've been listed on Binance Futures and a couple of other big exchanges like Upbit.
• 1:45:10
  So there's been increased trading activity and volume that has contributed to price appreciation.
• 1:45:15
  The token is for staking-based governance and other kinds of security measures, mitigating risks like wash trading, governance attacks, et cetera, et cetera.
• 1:45:24
  Well, what are you showing us here?
• 1:45:25
  What you got?
• 1:45:27
  Well, that's Deep's chart.
• 1:45:28
  And I just want to highlight that on Tuesday alone, this is the daily chart.
• 1:45:33
  So not the candle with the super long Wic on top, but the ones the left of it, the thick green boy.
• 1:45:40
  It did 120% in a day.
• 1:45:43
  Wow.
• 1:45:46
  It's a big beefy jump.
• 1:45:48
  That's a big beefy jump.
• 1:45:50
  So just to wrap up the metrics about this, that I would pay attention to, like I said, volume, number of orders placed and executed, and then spread.
• 1:46:03
  And actually, if you look at their TBL, you'll notice a tremendous amount of shop, especially in the beginning.
• 1:46:08
  That makes perfect sense.
• 1:46:10
  Basically, it just means the thing was operating as it was supposed to.
• 1:46:15
  Remember that the L in TBL stands for locked, and you really don't lock any liquidity in an order book.
• 1:46:22
  Yeah.
• 1:46:24
  So just a fun fact.
• 1:46:26
  If you're looking at TBL as a metric, which is a good thing to check, if it seems really low, ask yourself what kind of protocol are you looking at.
• 1:46:33
  Now, if we were looking at a DEX that had a market cap of almost $500 million and a TBL of 28 million, I would say you have cause for concern, but not here.
• 1:46:44
  Interesting.
• 1:46:45
  Yeah.
• 1:46:45
  And when I look at the TBL of Sway, you know, I had some concerns of it going down the amount of Sway when the market was still hot.
• 1:46:56
  But since the market's been cold at the start 2025, it's been steadily increasing, which shows me a growing DEFI ecosystem on Sway despite markets being cold.
• 1:47:07
  And that's a good sign for D. So that's nice to see.
• 1:47:11
  Very interesting.
• 1:47:13
  OK.
• 1:47:13
  I need to know more about it.
• 1:47:15
  I might need to look around and play with it myself.
• 1:47:17
  It might be, as you said earlier, Alex, one of those products that's-- I'm going to use it, but it's not marketed to me.
• 1:47:24
  I'm not building on it.
• 1:47:25
  I'll just know I'm using it in the background.
• 1:47:27
  I'd be curious to know and see more about that.
• 1:47:29
  But I don't know.
• 1:47:31
  I don't know that I honestly know enough to give it a sufficient grade.
• 1:47:35
  Well, I like the token distribution.
• 1:47:37
  It gave 61.57% to the community.
• 1:47:40
  Yeah, but I feel like I said earlier, it's 30% to team and core contributors and early backers, which I think is a lot.
• 1:47:49
  And they had a 10% air drop, which is cool.
• 1:47:51
  But I don't know.
• 1:47:53
  I just don't know enough to have a strong opinion about it.
• 1:47:55
  I like what they do.
• 1:47:56
  I love the headline on their website.
• 1:47:58
  OK, I gave them a ding for that.
• 1:48:00
  But I just need to know more.
• 1:48:03
  As long as the DFI ecosystem on Sway continues to grow in a positive direction, I would imagine they'll be positive fundamental growth for deep.
• 1:48:12
  Since it just had a huge shot upwards, it does have the volatility to potentially remain, be a very volatile, hopefully, to the upside altcoin.
• 1:48:23
  So I'd be very interested in continuing to watch this in Sway has a ton of mine share still within the crypto space.
• 1:48:30
  So it's going to be able to benefit off of that.
• 1:48:32
  I mean, I'd certainly be down to give it a B at the very least for right now.
• 1:48:37
  Yeah, that's kind of where I'm thinking.
• 1:48:39
  People clearly use it.
• 1:48:40
  It's interesting in a growing ecosystem.
• 1:48:43
  I would definitely give it another look.
• 1:48:44
  I would give it-- I would go so far.
• 1:48:46
  Maybe it is to give it a B+.
• 1:48:48
  Alex, what about you?
• 1:48:51
  Yeah, I think it's interesting.
• 1:48:53
  And I don't know that it has any real competition inside of the ecosystem.
• 1:48:58
  So that's another good sign.
• 1:49:01
  And the fact that they are processing decent volume.
• 1:49:06
  So deep books, 24 hour token volume, is $1 billion.
• 1:49:11
  Yeah, but that I've had it up on the Lama a minute ago.
• 1:49:14
  And that's like, I think that's got to be related to the price increase or driving the price increase.
• 1:49:19
  I think that's-- OK.
• 1:49:20
  Because that's a development.
• 1:49:22
  That's not-- It says, OK, you have the data for this metric-- That's not the trend.
• 1:49:26
  --for the directly from Kwankehko.
• 1:49:28
  Well, no, no, I'm not saying it's wrong, but I'm just saying, look at it on the screen share.
• 1:49:33
  And I'll show you.
• 1:49:34
  Go ahead.
• 1:49:36
  The trend is-- Oh, I see what you're saying.
• 1:49:39
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:49:41
  It was like-- I'll keep you up.
• 1:49:43
  No, no, no.
• 1:49:43
  But the volume was like $2 million, $1 million, $2 million, $1 million, $500,000.
• 1:49:49
  You know what I mean?
• 1:49:50
  It was like-- oh, sorry, excuse me, $10 million, $20 million, $20 million, $10 million, $20 million, and then it was like-- I see.
• 1:49:56
  --a massive $500 million, $1 million, yeah.
• 1:49:59
  Which I just-- I need to know why.
• 1:50:02
  Yeah, that's very strange.
• 1:50:04
  Either way, the trend-- if I go back to the beginning of November of last year, daily volume is what I would call healthy, which is nice, relatively consistent.
• 1:50:19
  The lowest point since then, beginning of March was still $6 million a day in volume.
• 1:50:29
  So I don't know, overall, I'm not mad about it.
• 1:50:34
  I would obviously say that right now is an incredibly risky time to add this particular token to your-- Oh, very much so.
• 1:50:42
  Yeah.
• 1:50:43
  Would not be touching it with a six foot stick right now, just because it's run up so much.
• 1:50:47
  Yeah.
• 1:50:48
  I would watch this one.
• 1:50:50
  This one's been on my watch list for a long time.
• 1:50:52
  I've never really felt inclined to buy it, but it's one that I would like to follow along with because it seems to be a legitimate business doing legitimate business things for the sweet ecosystem.
• 1:51:03
  And I like it when crypto companies do legitimate business things.
• 1:51:09
  So great.
• 1:51:13
  It's probably-- it's probably a B, just because it's one of those things that has fit.
• 1:51:18
  It's probably making some money.
• 1:51:20
  The revenue is not reported here, but volume is good.
• 1:51:25
  Oh, I'm sorry.
• 1:51:29
  Evan, that was-- okay, I just realized what I was reading when I said a billion.
• 1:51:32
  That was token volume.
• 1:51:34
  That's just trading of deep because of all of this.
• 1:51:38
  That's right.
• 1:51:39
  Not volume on its perturbation.
• 1:51:40
  That makes more sense.
• 1:51:41
  Yeah.
• 1:51:42
  That's what we're getting at.
• 1:51:43
  And we can send volume on the platform is 40 million.
• 1:51:46
  So that makes way more sense.
• 1:51:50
  38.
• 1:51:51
  38.
• 1:51:52
  Okay.
• 1:51:53
  Okay.
• 1:51:54
  Well, then it's about that time, guys, that we have got to give a final thought.
• 1:51:59
  Take a pick of the night and ride our dogs and ponies off into the sunset, or maybe it's late enough that we could ride our cat and cows into the sunrise.
• 1:52:06
  But if you've got a final thought, a question to suggestion, good joke, word of wisdom, let us know.
• 1:52:11
  And if you've got something you want us to check out, like Nita was asking if we could compare China's R&B to Swift, or Robert was saying, can you just T.A.
• 1:52:19
  Hawk to, I want to know if I'm going to get my bag back.
• 1:52:22
  Sorry, a bunch of bags.
• 1:52:23
  Or any other question, then the best place to leave it is going to be in the rise of discord.
• 1:52:27
  And that's discord.gg/riseup.
• 1:52:31
  So much cool stuff is there.
• 1:52:33
  The new USDC to $2 design pole is in the discord with a few more hours left.
• 1:52:39
  We'd like your opinion on that.
• 1:52:40
  If you've got a question, if you're waiting to find the community that will help you learn about crypto, that's the one re-record.
• 1:52:46
  We recommend the only thing missing is you.
• 1:52:49
  So guys, you want to give a pick of the night and I'll give some point totals and we'll get the heck out of here.
• 1:52:56
  What's your pick of the night, Will?
• 1:52:58
  Ah, pick of the nights, pick of the night.
• 1:53:02
  I mean, it's not my highest grade, but I'm way more interested in deep that I am, a bit denser, Tau.
• 1:53:12
  Because I must slot for DeFi.
• 1:53:14
  He is.
• 1:53:15
  He is.
• 1:53:16
  I know.
• 1:53:17
  He really loves telling us about it.
• 1:53:19
  I certainly do.
• 1:53:20
  No, it's going to be deep.
• 1:53:21
  It's deep for sure.
• 1:53:22
  That's my pick.
• 1:53:23
  Okay, deep is pick.
• 1:53:24
  Alex, what about you?
• 1:53:25
  You got to pick of the night?
• 1:53:26
  Oh, yeah, for sure.
• 1:53:27
  You need swap all day every day.
• 1:53:30
  You need swap, pick of the night.
• 1:53:32
  I am kind of thinking you need swap might be my pick of the night, too.
• 1:53:37
  Alex, I'm the most excited to see what they're going to do next.
• 1:53:40
  I'm the most excited to keep paying attention and looking at that.
• 1:53:43
  So congratulations, JunoSwap.
• 1:53:45
  Let us know if you've got a pick of the night here, we want to see what that's going to be.
• 1:53:49
  And then let me tell you what the results are of tonight's game.
• 1:53:57
  I have no guesses, dude, that this one felt like it was all over the place.
• 1:54:00
  I feel like people all have one point.
• 1:54:02
  There are a lot of people.
• 1:54:03
  Yeah, there's a lot of people with one point.
• 1:54:05
  You're right about that.
• 1:54:06
  And starting out in last place with one is actually Dion Protocol.
• 1:54:13
  I'm so sorry, Dion.
• 1:54:15
  Well, that is, that is rat-afitting.
• 1:54:20
  So that was the big one for the night.
• 1:54:23
  And you were right, Alex, in a several way tie for whatever place.
• 1:54:27
  With one point of peace, we've got our guest who couldn't make it because she had to be at the White House Brittany with the best excuse.
• 1:54:33
  So Jordan, CoinCarp, and I'm going to give a last minute one point to the animal, the Barneyard trio, CoinGecko, DeFalema, CoinCarp.
• 1:54:41
  And I'm actually going to give another point to bump Christina up into another place because I didn't want her to feel like she was with all the basic beties that only had one point.
• 1:54:49
  Christina, that one's for you.
• 1:54:52
  That means in...
• 1:54:54
  Markament Abulation of its finest.
• 1:54:56
  A tie for second place.
• 1:55:01
  Five points.
• 1:55:03
  It's you and me, Alex.
• 1:55:06
  Which means our winner tonight with six points was Mr. Will Watson.
• 1:55:13
  Congratulations Will.
• 1:55:14
  You are the victor tonight.
• 1:55:17
  Do you have anything to say, a little trash to talk as you leave it on the floor?
• 1:55:20
  Well, first and foremost, I'd like to thank our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
• 1:55:25
  And, you know, really.
• 1:55:28
  And also my coach who really helps those beats worth a practice to really prep for my game plan for tonight.
• 1:55:34
  You're welcome.
• 1:55:35
  And, you know, it's really just all about team synergy.
• 1:55:39
  And, you know, I couldn't do what I do out there on the field if it wasn't for, you know, my brothers and sisters out there up court, you know, throwing those assists, those picks.
• 1:55:49
  It was, you know, a real team effort tonight.
• 1:55:51
  I'm just glad to play my part.
• 1:55:53
  God, you're such a douche.
• 1:55:55
  I'm just listening.
• 1:55:59
  I demand a recount.
• 1:56:00
  I demand a recount.
• 1:56:01
  Well, you'll get one anyway.
• 1:56:02
  We're on just one next week.
• 1:56:04
  You'll get one next week.
• 1:56:05
  We're on the same.
• 1:56:06
  We're on Alex.
• 1:56:07
  Do you have a final thought?
• 1:56:08
  Good joke, where do wisdom?
• 1:56:11
  As the first loser tied with me as the other first loser.
• 1:56:18
  I bring this game every time and I can't even win.
• 1:56:21
  Man, what the hell was once you've won a win?
• 1:56:24
  You're pretty bad at it.
• 1:56:25
  You got to, you got to call the White House for some lessons in market manipulation and read this thing in your favor one time.
• 1:56:32
  I'll just say because I got the question 88 times in the chat, where is the market heading next?
• 1:56:38
  Nobody knows.
• 1:56:39
  It really depends what mood the White House wakes up in tomorrow whether they decide they want to crash it again or they want to pump it higher.
• 1:56:45
  And you got an equal parts chance of both of those.
• 1:56:47
  So at this point, we're all flying by the seat of our pants and it's all manipulation, baby.
• 1:56:52
  It's all manipulation.
• 1:56:53
  That's right.
• 1:56:54
  We'll see you bright and early.
• 1:56:56
  Same time, same place as we always have the Rise Up Morning Show, which is right in your living room, right in your car, right at your gym for your workout.
• 1:57:04
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• 1:57:13
  Find the links at the rise up morning show dot com, including the links to the new Rise Up Morning Show mug, which makes your coffee tastes better, makes you look good, the discord server, and so much more is waiting there for you.
• 1:57:27
  My friends, thank you for being the very best part of what we do.
• 1:57:31
  Until next time, everybody, stay safe, be well.
• 1:57:36
  Rise Up.