Latest / OneLegUpAlex Media / OneLegUpAlex Adapts With Stephanie Jackson, Owner of Practical Sanctuary, Powered by Podmatch 11-29-25

Transcript

OneLegUpAlex Adapts With Stephanie Jackson, Owner of Practical Sanctuary, Powered by Podmatch 11-29-25 · OneLegUpAlex Media

0:02
Speaker 1: Here's your host, Alex Darren. Once again here on the
0:08
Speaker 1: onely Cup Network. We are going to go into the
0:09
Speaker 1: adaptive world for this time, neurodivergence and how we can
0:14
Speaker 1: help people with those when neurodivergence and I have the
0:19
Speaker 1: owner and CEO of Practical Sanctuary, Stephanie Lee Jackson, and
0:23
Speaker 1: that is your specialty, neurodiversens and when we did our
0:26
Speaker 1: pre show chat, we really hit it off, so I
0:28
Speaker 1: wanted to see what kind of everyway doing. I'm glad
0:31
Speaker 1: to have you today on the onely Cup Network.
0:33
Speaker 2: Thanks, Thanks Alex. It's good to be here.
0:35
Speaker 1: So it's interesting because when you talk neurodert virgins, you
0:37
Speaker 1: would expect the person running the company to actually be neurodiverson.
0:42
Speaker 1: But let's start there. No, but you've been around many.
0:45
Speaker 2: That are yes. Yeah, I'm what you could call a
0:49
Speaker 2: highly sensitive person, which means that we're about twenty percent
0:53
Speaker 2: of the population and we are we are taking in
0:56
Speaker 2: more data, we were more sensitive and more affected by
1:00
Speaker 2: all kinds of sensory and emotional input. As a highly
1:06
Speaker 2: sensitive person, I've always liked quirky people. I've just been
1:11
Speaker 2: drawn to the odd balls. And that was true before
1:16
Speaker 2: we had a name for it, and as I've gotten older,
1:20
Speaker 2: more and more and more of my oldest friends have
1:24
Speaker 2: either self diagnosed or received diagnosis as some kind of neurodivergent.
1:29
Speaker 2: That means ADHD OCD, autism, spectrum sensory processing disorder, and
1:38
Speaker 2: I would include trauma in that because trauma changes the brain.
1:45
Speaker 2: I define neurodivergence as a difference in patterns of attention,
1:50
Speaker 2: brain organization, sensory input, sensory processing. And basically your brain
2:00
Speaker 2: just works differently. It's wired a little bit differently, and
2:03
Speaker 2: I find that fascinating.
2:07
Speaker 1: Because sometimes you know, for me in an interview, it
2:09
Speaker 1: takes a little bit more to focus. Does that mean
2:12
Speaker 1: there's something neuro there that like that.
2:13
Speaker 2: Is one hundred percent neurodivergent. I think, as we discussed
2:18
Speaker 2: during our pre interview, you think you have ADHD yes, yes,
2:24
Speaker 2: given that you told me that you always have like
2:26
Speaker 2: five devices.
2:27
Speaker 1: On it once true, I do. I actually do. And
2:31
Speaker 1: that stems from from from the seventy seven days in
2:34
Speaker 1: the NICKEU where there were blinking lights and flashing lights
2:37
Speaker 1: and noises and pumped up to everything on. I think
2:39
Speaker 1: that's what my parents attributed to. Anyway, so I feel that.
2:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, so some of it is is inborn, some of
2:45
Speaker 2: it's genetic, and some of it is how you are,
2:50
Speaker 2: things have happened to you in your life. So I
2:54
Speaker 2: don't consider myself designing just for neurodivergent people. I consider
3:00
Speaker 2: myself designing for everyone, including neurodivergent people. And I believe
3:06
Speaker 2: that if we take neurodivergence and highly sensitive as a baseline,
3:11
Speaker 2: we're making the environment better for everyone, because even those
3:15
Speaker 2: neurotypical people get easily get distracted, get overwhelmed, and have
3:22
Speaker 2: difficulty focusing in a chaotic environment.
3:25
Speaker 1: All right, so multitasking, yeah, is that neurodivergence too like
3:29
Speaker 1: a skill set for that?
3:31
Speaker 2: There is no such thing as multitasking. You are switching
3:34
Speaker 2: your attention very rapidly. People with ADHD have a difference
3:40
Speaker 2: in brain chemicals that your short term memory does not
3:44
Speaker 2: hold as many things in your immediate attention, so you
3:47
Speaker 2: will be more easily distractable. So you will be balancing
3:52
Speaker 2: around from things in your environment because they're able to
3:55
Speaker 2: get your attention because you haven't narrowed your attention in
4:00
Speaker 2: with the exception. Okay, do you do you want me
4:04
Speaker 2: to go into hyper focus again. Yeah.
4:06
Speaker 1: Well, and I tell you why it's that because as
4:08
Speaker 1: we're talking, I'm on my computer at work to see
4:11
Speaker 1: what work I gotta do. As like, there's just a
4:13
Speaker 1: bunch of things that I feel like I can do
4:15
Speaker 1: in one task. And lack of focus has been something
4:18
Speaker 1: since I was in kindergarten. Every teacher and everybody ever noticed,
4:23
Speaker 1: like just the fact I've never focused on one thing.
4:27
Speaker 1: It can be a detriment, but sometimes it's a strength.
4:30
Speaker 1: I guess I don't know it is.
4:31
Speaker 2: It's a strength, it's it's depending on how you manage it.
4:36
Speaker 2: It can be a superpower and it also can be
4:40
Speaker 2: an obstacle. The first step is understanding your own brain
4:46
Speaker 2: and then setting up systems to support your brain to
4:50
Speaker 2: do what you want it to do.
4:51
Speaker 1: It's amazing because you've sort of redefined it for me.
4:53
Speaker 1: I always thought ned neurodivergent was autistic autism only, but
4:57
Speaker 1: you're sort of expanding that horizon.
4:59
Speaker 2: No, I'm expanding it. Yes, ADHD and autism often happen.
5:06
Speaker 2: They use. The term they use is comorbid. They often
5:09
Speaker 2: come together. A lot of neurodivergent people I know first
5:14
Speaker 2: get a diagnosis of ADHD, and then they realize there's
5:17
Speaker 2: something else going on. It's perfectly possible to have ADHD
5:21
Speaker 2: and not have autism, but they really do often show
5:25
Speaker 2: up together.
5:26
Speaker 1: Now, social cues I feel like I'm good at. So
5:29
Speaker 1: that's where I feel like there's a distinction, make because
5:31
Speaker 1: I know people with autism do not take the cues
5:34
Speaker 1: as well as maybe someone was strictly ADHD. Is that right?
5:37
Speaker 2: Yes, that is true. That that's one of the dividing lines.
5:42
Speaker 1: Okay, So in your practical sanctuary, right, what can people
5:47
Speaker 1: find like why did you start this whole business up?
5:51
Speaker 1: And also I feel like you're doing it from an
5:53
Speaker 1: entrepreneurial perspective as well as an adaptive perspective.
5:56
Speaker 2: Right, absolutely, yes, yes, it's found me. It was a
6:01
Speaker 2: really obvious whole in design which no one was filling.
6:09
Speaker 2: And for me, I was like, this is so important.
6:13
Speaker 2: I know so many people who can't function. I have
6:17
Speaker 2: so many friends that I can't go sit in a
6:19
Speaker 2: cafe with and have a conversation because they can't track
6:22
Speaker 2: a conversation a lot of chaotic, dark noise around it
6:26
Speaker 2: just their brain can't process the conversation with a lot
6:30
Speaker 2: of background noise because they can't filter it out. That's
6:32
Speaker 2: a neurodivergent thing. Filtering sound auditory processing is frequently an
6:39
Speaker 2: issue lights. So many people with ADHD or neurodivergence, like
6:46
Speaker 2: bright lights pointing at their faces is just really uncomfortable.
6:49
Speaker 2: Fluorescent lights can't even process that at all. So for
6:55
Speaker 2: me is this is glaring, glaring problem with the way
6:58
Speaker 2: things are put together, and was addressing it. I'd be
7:01
Speaker 2: going around pointing it out and people are just kind
7:03
Speaker 2: of like the like, we can't do anything about That's
7:06
Speaker 2: just what the contractor put in.
7:08
Speaker 1: Now, I want to ask about whether people are conscious
7:11
Speaker 1: of them darting their eyes a certain way, or if
7:14
Speaker 1: they're not and they just do it naturally, because for me,
7:16
Speaker 1: I feel really bad if I'm like looking at a
7:18
Speaker 1: group of people, I'll try to focus on a conversation.
7:21
Speaker 1: I know I'm doing it, and I still do it anyway.
7:23
Speaker 1: Like do people, though in our diversence, not think of
7:27
Speaker 1: it that way? They're not.
7:28
Speaker 2: It really depends on the person. We are born in
7:32
Speaker 2: the nervous system. We're born in. We live in it.
7:35
Speaker 2: That's our reality. We're not analyzing it. We're not we
7:39
Speaker 2: start out, we're not comparing it to other people. Our
7:42
Speaker 2: experience is what we know, and we kind of assume
7:46
Speaker 2: that everyone else is having the same experience. So that's
7:49
Speaker 2: the first thing I do with people is walk you
7:55
Speaker 2: through a process where you start to do some fun
8:01
Speaker 2: exercises and figure out your own nervous system, figure out
8:05
Speaker 2: where you're sensitive, where you're struggling, where you may be
8:10
Speaker 2: seeking more sensory seeking. We did talk about that too,
8:15
Speaker 2: and start to like place yourself, like where is my
8:20
Speaker 2: nervous system different from other people's, Perhaps what things in
8:24
Speaker 2: my environment are causing me discomfort draining my energy That
8:29
Speaker 2: I haven't really thought about it because I just accept
8:32
Speaker 2: it for the way it is. Being aware of things
8:36
Speaker 2: is the first step to being able to adapt. If
8:41
Speaker 2: you don't know that there's an issue, you're just gonna
8:44
Speaker 2: just keep kind of floundering.
8:45
Speaker 1: On through Saturday, I was trying to rerest up from
8:49
Speaker 1: my five kre and Yankey Sat, which was just a
8:51
Speaker 1: fun event. Sounds fun, but in my room, my childhood room.
8:55
Speaker 1: I went back home to Queens and like, there's a
8:58
Speaker 1: bunch of books around me, and I'm like, why am
8:59
Speaker 1: I scrolling on my phone when I should really be reading?
9:02
Speaker 1: But I never did read a book, Like I don't
9:04
Speaker 1: know what there is there, but it's like in my brain,
9:06
Speaker 1: I'm like, I shouldn't be scrolling, but because there's a
9:08
Speaker 1: bunch of books around me, Well, how do we turn
9:11
Speaker 1: out and start reading.
9:12
Speaker 2: You're at the mercy of your environment if you have
9:15
Speaker 2: an intention and you're shooting yourself. First of all, I
9:18
Speaker 2: want to point that out, don't shoot all over yourself.
9:23
Speaker 2: If you have an intention, if you have a goal,
9:25
Speaker 2: there's something you really want and you start to notice it,
9:28
Speaker 2: I'm just getting distracted with all of this stuff. That's
9:31
Speaker 2: your first step becoming aware of the issue. And then
9:35
Speaker 2: the next step is to set up your environment and
9:39
Speaker 2: get some help. Like everyone I know with ADHD needs help,
9:43
Speaker 2: because that executive function piece is really really tough for people.
9:48
Speaker 2: Get some help, help discover those goals and then get
9:54
Speaker 2: the help setting up your environment that's going to enable
9:56
Speaker 2: you to buy default do the thing that's going to
9:59
Speaker 2: get you to that goal. That's one of the things I.
10:03
Speaker 1: Help people do, almost like functioning the room right and
10:06
Speaker 1: trying to get.
10:07
Speaker 2: It yes, but more so way and make it way
10:10
Speaker 2: more personal.
10:11
Speaker 1: All right, So there's an intensity to organization for people
10:15
Speaker 1: with neurodivergence, right, Like, it has to be organized and
10:18
Speaker 1: then you have that whole there's a there's a term
10:22
Speaker 1: for it. I can't think of it right now, but
10:24
Speaker 1: where it has to be all organized and in the
10:27
Speaker 1: right place.
10:28
Speaker 2: Well, if that's what you need, yes, and organized means
10:34
Speaker 2: different things to different people. So I have to figure out, like,
10:37
Speaker 2: what what's going to work for this particular person. No,
10:42
Speaker 2: two neurodivergent people are alike. Their brains don't work the
10:46
Speaker 2: same way, either as neurotypical people or as other neurodivergent people.
10:53
Speaker 2: So I first just take my clients through this process
10:57
Speaker 2: of understanding how their brain works and then figuring out
11:03
Speaker 2: what structures and systems are going to support their particular brain.
11:09
Speaker 1: And OCD is a term I was thinking of, do
11:11
Speaker 1: you help people with.
11:13
Speaker 2: Yes, I do.
11:14
Speaker 1: Well that that's good to know as well. And I mean,
11:17
Speaker 1: sometimes though all of these different factors and the way
11:20
Speaker 1: our brain thinks, I don't want to say it can
11:23
Speaker 1: be a detriment, but it can hold us back a
11:24
Speaker 1: little bit. How do we make sure it doesn't hold
11:26
Speaker 1: this back and say, Okay, let's not freak out that
11:29
Speaker 1: this thing's not in order. Let's just let it be right.
11:33
Speaker 2: I will coach you through that too. A lot of
11:36
Speaker 2: the exhaustion that happens when your surroundings are draining you
11:40
Speaker 2: is that your brain is editing out the things it
11:43
Speaker 2: doesn't want to deal with, and that takes energy, that
11:47
Speaker 2: takes bandwidth.
11:48
Speaker 1: So that's basically selective listening if you think about.
11:50
Speaker 2: It, right, Yeah, it's it's selective attention of all kinds,
11:55
Speaker 2: whether it's listening or looking or thinking about or tripping
11:58
Speaker 2: over your your brain is focusing on a few things
12:05
Speaker 2: and using energy to just take the rest out of
12:10
Speaker 2: your your view. And what I can do is just
12:16
Speaker 2: against very simple techniques, help you frame your surroundings so
12:20
Speaker 2: that you can bring that to your attention. Bring the
12:23
Speaker 2: things that you're editing out to your attention, clear them,
12:27
Speaker 2: get rid of them, and then you're in an environment
12:31
Speaker 2: that is naturally allowing you to use all of your
12:35
Speaker 2: bandwidth for what you want to use it for, rather
12:38
Speaker 2: than using a lot of it to selectively.
12:42
Speaker 1: No, you know, it's interesting that I found that as
12:44
Speaker 1: I've gotten used to just scrolling and all that and
12:47
Speaker 1: not paying attention, like, I've just gotten to the point
12:51
Speaker 1: where I want to hang out with people who keep
12:53
Speaker 1: my attention in a conversation. Like, if you can't do that,
12:56
Speaker 1: then I don't know if it's worth spending all my
12:58
Speaker 1: time because to right to have someone's attention or to
13:04
Speaker 1: capture my attention, it does take a lot. I realized it.
13:06
Speaker 1: Maybe that's you go this say, but just what it is.
13:09
Speaker 2: Well, that's your filter. Yeah, I mean we all want
13:11
Speaker 2: friends that that bring out the best in us. And
13:15
Speaker 2: if you're with a bunch of normies who bore you,
13:19
Speaker 2: that's your clue. Okay, maybe I'm not with the right
13:22
Speaker 2: set of people, and that's okay, it's not it's no, no,
13:26
Speaker 2: no shade on them.
13:27
Speaker 1: Like my colleagues are great, Like I could just pay
13:29
Speaker 1: and just want they're talking about all day, Like I
13:30
Speaker 1: love that.
13:31
Speaker 2: Well, there you go, so you have the great the
13:32
Speaker 2: best colleagues. Who are your colleagues.
13:35
Speaker 1: We're all in radio, so we're all kind of radio
13:38
Speaker 1: guys that just just know the board. Socially, we're just
13:42
Speaker 1: we click, you know what I mean. It's it's all
13:44
Speaker 1: the way of clicking.
13:45
Speaker 2: Well, I imagine being in radio, You're you're paying attention to
13:48
Speaker 2: so many different things, like you're seeking out the interesting things. Yeah,
13:52
Speaker 2: and that can be your superpower, like really finding the
13:55
Speaker 2: new and interesting things that your brain is always looking for.
13:58
Speaker 2: More so it's a perfect career for you.
14:01
Speaker 1: And my apps always tell me what news would cover
14:03
Speaker 1: on my pockyat So there's that too, all right. Yeah,
14:06
Speaker 1: I often know that nerd divergence are excluded from a
14:10
Speaker 1: lot of things, either intentionally or unintentionally. So did that
14:15
Speaker 1: inclusion aspect inspire you to start practical.
14:19
Speaker 2: Really very much?
14:20
Speaker 1: So?
14:20
Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, I mean inclusion is a real core value
14:24
Speaker 2: of mine. It has been, you know, since I can remember,
14:27
Speaker 2: Like I was always seeking out the person that was
14:30
Speaker 2: having a rough time and just befriending them and appreciating
14:35
Speaker 2: them and like wanting to bring them in. And there
14:39
Speaker 2: is inclusion is touchy because just tolerating people is not
14:45
Speaker 2: good enough. No one wants to be tolerated. We want
14:48
Speaker 2: to be appreciated and seen for who we are. And
14:51
Speaker 2: I don't want to change people to make them fit in.
14:55
Speaker 2: I want to expand the circle. And that takes a
14:59
Speaker 2: little work on the part of everyone. It's not easy,
15:05
Speaker 2: but it's very rewarding. And so part of what I
15:09
Speaker 2: do is like create that bridge, is I work with
15:13
Speaker 2: everyone on like their goals, who they are, but I'm
15:17
Speaker 2: reflecting back what I see. I am sensitive and introverted,
15:22
Speaker 2: so I will be paying very close attention to you
15:27
Speaker 2: and pulling out your superpowers and your strengths and asking
15:32
Speaker 2: you and digging deeper and deeper until I can really
15:36
Speaker 2: see who you are, what your you know, what your
15:40
Speaker 2: strengths are, and start to clear out the stuff that
15:44
Speaker 2: isn't you and ample poty those things that are you
15:47
Speaker 2: you yes, yes, your superpowers And like a lot of
15:53
Speaker 2: times when people have been excluded and they've been you know,
15:57
Speaker 2: hurt and crushed, it's like their light is I help
16:02
Speaker 2: give them a spiritual glow up. Like really, I'm not
16:06
Speaker 2: putting anything there that's not there, but I'm I'm amplifying
16:10
Speaker 2: what is there and creating a sort of an environment
16:14
Speaker 2: that like supports that and reflects that back to them.
16:17
Speaker 2: So they're feeling better in their bodies, they're feeling better
16:20
Speaker 2: in their minds, they're more clear on what their value is.
16:24
Speaker 2: Like I am very.
16:25
Speaker 1: Their souls on fire. Like I've been doing things the
16:27
Speaker 1: last couple of weeks where I'm just like, all right,
16:31
Speaker 1: I have stuff going on, but I'm gonna put that
16:33
Speaker 1: aside for a minute and just do what I want
16:34
Speaker 1: to do, and that feeling of just being able to
16:36
Speaker 1: do it, like going up to Boston College who watched
16:39
Speaker 1: the Irish playday football, Ye, going to do a five
16:43
Speaker 1: k and stay. I mean, these are things that are
16:44
Speaker 1: firing me up, and to actually take that time for
16:47
Speaker 1: myself is something I'm not used to and be I'm
16:50
Speaker 1: really enjoying at the same time.
16:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, now I have a question about that five k.
16:55
Speaker 2: So how do you run? Do you have a prosthetic?
16:58
Speaker 1: Do you usually know Iran? And so it was very
17:01
Speaker 1: interesting to rain. I rollabate, I walked it and ran
17:05
Speaker 1: it all three miles Oka and they had us go
17:08
Speaker 1: up two flights of stairs twice. So we went stairs
17:12
Speaker 1: of Yankee State and we pretty much went the perimeter
17:14
Speaker 1: of the ballpark from left field to right field and
17:17
Speaker 1: then on the lower level and then we went on
17:19
Speaker 1: the warning track of Yankee State. It was okay, So
17:21
Speaker 1: we did all that, and just being able to do
17:24
Speaker 1: that experience and zoning everything else out was just very special. Yeah,
17:28
Speaker 1: and I felt like I needed that. So yeah, there's that.
17:31
Speaker 1: Now I want to ask you something about your sensitivity.
17:35
Speaker 1: But also as a business owner. You have to run
17:39
Speaker 1: your business, So how do you manage the both of them?
17:43
Speaker 2: Uh?
17:44
Speaker 1: Like, how do you developed when you need to get
17:46
Speaker 1: tough as Mike question?
17:47
Speaker 2: Right, No, I've I've developed the systems that I need
17:50
Speaker 2: to regulate my own nervous system. And every time I
17:54
Speaker 2: scale up, there's there's a process. Like I published a
17:57
Speaker 2: book in September. It took me three years to finish it.
18:01
Speaker 2: I had given myself two years. It took me an
18:03
Speaker 2: extra year, and I had a migraine for six weeks
18:07
Speaker 2: before that book launched. It was stressing me out so badly,
18:09
Speaker 2: like getting it right, you know, feeling vulnerable about putting
18:14
Speaker 2: it out there, organizing all them.
18:17
Speaker 1: So I believe you waited until it was launch for
18:19
Speaker 1: us to actually have the conversation.
18:20
Speaker 2: I did. Yeah, I was way over, you know, and
18:24
Speaker 2: I was going outside my comfort zone. And I was
18:27
Speaker 2: aware that I was going outside my comfort zone, and
18:30
Speaker 2: I was I had the systems in place. I'm like, Okay,
18:33
Speaker 2: got a migraine, Now this is what's going on. You know.
18:37
Speaker 2: I'll take my nap, I'll do my breathing exercises, I
18:40
Speaker 2: will get it done. But I had to understand it
18:43
Speaker 2: that this is my body. This is I'm pushing myself
18:46
Speaker 2: to my limit. I'm choosing to do so for a
18:49
Speaker 2: good reason. And I will not push myself constantly with
18:56
Speaker 2: no break. And if it takes me longer, it takes
18:59
Speaker 2: me longer. I have come to terms with that. And
19:02
Speaker 2: I see so many high achievers having pushed themselves past
19:06
Speaker 2: their limit for way too long, and then they have
19:09
Speaker 2: a major health crisis that slows them down. I have
19:13
Speaker 2: seen that so much.
19:14
Speaker 1: That was me last year. Gallstone's got me hospitalized for
19:17
Speaker 1: a month and I was I was sidelined for another month.
19:21
Speaker 1: I mean, if you don't take care of that part
19:24
Speaker 1: of you, you're gonna go downhill pretty so yeah, I
19:27
Speaker 1: applaud you for taking those breaks. But now they mentioned
19:29
Speaker 1: the book plug it, plug it for my audience thinks okay.
19:33
Speaker 2: It's called the Eccentric Genius Habitat Intervention Interior Design for
19:39
Speaker 2: Highly Sensitive People. You can find it on my website,
19:43
Speaker 2: Practical Sanctuary dot com. You can also get it wherever
19:46
Speaker 2: books are sold. It's both ebook and print, and it
19:51
Speaker 2: is a manifesto and a how to guide. The manifesto is, first,
19:57
Speaker 2: we need this. This is how your nervous system works.
20:01
Speaker 2: This is how society is running a tractor over your
20:05
Speaker 2: nervous system. This is how and why we need to
20:10
Speaker 2: be thinking about this and doing it differently. And then
20:14
Speaker 2: I take you through the steps of how to do
20:16
Speaker 2: it for yourself, how to do it for your family,
20:20
Speaker 2: and then how to expand into your community, because we
20:23
Speaker 2: can't all we can't just be doing this all alone.
20:26
Speaker 2: We need to be connecting with other people.
20:28
Speaker 1: When I think of eccentric, Jesus that I think of
20:30
Speaker 1: these kids that are like going the Harvard at fourteen
20:33
Speaker 1: and then you have new chess at a very young age.
20:36
Speaker 1: Is there neurodivergence there that gets these kids?
20:38
Speaker 2: There could very well be, yes, But I believe.
20:42
Speaker 1: I knew a kid that played violin to the tea
20:46
Speaker 1: Jeremy Cushman, back in the day. I wonder if ye
20:47
Speaker 1: had a little because when you think about eccentric, that's
20:51
Speaker 1: eccentric to me.
20:51
Speaker 2: Oh yes, absolutely, yeah. Eccentric means like one sided. It's
20:56
Speaker 2: like you've got this huge strength and then there's this
20:59
Speaker 2: everything else is kind of like not as fully realized.
21:03
Speaker 2: I believe that everyone has genius in some way, some
21:07
Speaker 2: way or another. So this is not an exclusive thing.
21:12
Speaker 2: But a lot of people don't perceive their own genius.
21:17
Speaker 2: They don't feel it.
21:19
Speaker 1: And they're afraid to embrace it too.
21:21
Speaker 2: Like I agree.
21:22
Speaker 1: It took a while for me to just branch out
21:24
Speaker 1: on my own because I felt like I was in
21:26
Speaker 1: the shadows of all the radio hosts I work with,
21:28
Speaker 1: and like I can't really branch out on my own.
21:30
Speaker 1: Then pandemic it and I realize, Okay, now's the time
21:33
Speaker 1: to launch time here we are one leg about so
21:37
Speaker 1: to under I'm not saying I'm a genius, but to
21:39
Speaker 1: understand that there's something there takes a while to exactly
21:43
Speaker 1: just show it to the world, you know, Yes, And
21:46
Speaker 1: I think you're helping people show the world what they're
21:48
Speaker 1: made of.
21:50
Speaker 2: That is my goal, That's that's my mission.
21:52
Speaker 1: Yes, all right, I got a couple of million dollar
21:55
Speaker 1: questions here, because the first thing is, obviously you do
21:58
Speaker 1: run this business? Have you neurodivergent people to work with you?
22:03
Speaker 2: Right now? I am a solo outfit and I occasionally
22:07
Speaker 2: hire contractors, Okay, I once I'm big enough, that is
22:14
Speaker 2: a priority.
22:16
Speaker 1: And do you feel that people that hire like businesses
22:18
Speaker 1: hire people with autism or nerdivergens or any kind of disability.
22:23
Speaker 1: It often feels like a token, you know, it doesn't
22:26
Speaker 1: feel really.
22:28
Speaker 2: And that's that's part of what I'm working against with this,
22:30
Speaker 2: that that the choice of the title eccentric genius is
22:33
Speaker 2: very intentional and a lot of the work I do
22:39
Speaker 2: consulting with companies and advocating. Okay, I want to tell
22:45
Speaker 2: you I recently spoke at a neurodiversity employment conference and
22:51
Speaker 2: I found it a very frustrating experience because everything was
22:55
Speaker 2: framed as we're helping these poor, sweet disabled people, and
23:00
Speaker 2: we need to be charitable, and we need to be
23:02
Speaker 2: nice people, we need to be good people. We need
23:04
Speaker 2: to include these poor, sweet neurodivergent people. And there were
23:08
Speaker 2: no freaking employers there looking to hire the amazing brains
23:13
Speaker 2: that are neurodivergent. Right. I think this is a really
23:16
Speaker 2: bad marketing problem. All the neurodivergent people I know are
23:21
Speaker 2: brilliant in one way or another, and they are going
23:26
Speaker 2: to be a massive asset in the right role at
23:30
Speaker 2: the right place. I feel that excluding neurodivergent people is
23:37
Speaker 2: a massive brain drain. We can't afford it as a culture.
23:41
Speaker 2: Corporations can't afford to ignore this and I feel that
23:46
Speaker 2: labeling this as a nonprofit as a charity is like
23:51
Speaker 2: helping these disabled people is the wrong way to go.
23:56
Speaker 1: Okayespecially when you look at someone who I believe is
23:58
Speaker 1: neurodivergent Elon Musk basically rule the world.
24:00
Speaker 2: I mean, well, yes, and I have my issues with
24:05
Speaker 2: Elon Musk too. He needs tempering. We've got to work together,
24:09
Speaker 2: we've got to be understanding of differences, and we've got
24:12
Speaker 2: to be working integreatively rather than eccentrically. Sure, right, it
24:19
Speaker 2: shouldn't be all or nothing. We don't need to like
24:21
Speaker 2: Silo and segregate the Nerdi virgin people and then have
24:25
Speaker 2: the normies over here. We need to be each taking
24:28
Speaker 2: some steps to understand one another and to work together
24:31
Speaker 2: and to find the right places for people.
24:33
Speaker 1: All right, so someone comes in to your practical sanctuary,
24:38
Speaker 1: Let's be honest. Nerdi Virgins always aren't always verbal. So
24:42
Speaker 1: how do you get them to start talking and start
24:44
Speaker 1: telling their story?
24:46
Speaker 2: A lot of the nonverbal clients I have, it's their
24:53
Speaker 2: families that come to me, and a lot of what
24:57
Speaker 2: I do I into I work with their families. I
25:03
Speaker 2: work with their care providers, particularly their occupational therapists. I've
25:07
Speaker 2: had a nonverbal client that I spent an hour on
25:11
Speaker 2: Zoom with her occupational therapist and got, you know, all
25:15
Speaker 2: the information about how this person likes to live and
25:19
Speaker 2: what they need, and then I worked out a plan
25:22
Speaker 2: based on that, because again it's integrative. I am not
25:26
Speaker 2: creating spaces where we can park the neurodivergent people. I'm
25:31
Speaker 2: not creating just sensory rooms where they can just all
25:34
Speaker 2: kind of be in their sensory thing. I am helping
25:38
Speaker 2: them live with the people around them. And a lot
25:43
Speaker 2: of what I do. If I have like a family
25:48
Speaker 2: where the child is on the spectrum and their sensory
25:52
Speaker 2: seeking and they're just creating a lot of chaos, parent
25:55
Speaker 2: is drained, I will make some changes that help the
25:59
Speaker 2: parent get their needs met with whether or not their
26:04
Speaker 2: child changes. A lot of times the parents kind of
26:08
Speaker 2: be like, fix my kids so that I can get
26:10
Speaker 2: a break. I'm like, let's get you a break. Let's
26:14
Speaker 2: get you a break now, and then you have more
26:16
Speaker 2: bandwidth for dealing with your child.
26:19
Speaker 1: And if parents offloading the kids just they're looking for help.
26:22
Speaker 2: They're just looking for help and they need it. With
26:25
Speaker 2: caregivers do not have enough support in this culture. I
26:29
Speaker 2: can't fix that by myself, but I can help them
26:32
Speaker 2: see it in a larger context and get at least
26:36
Speaker 2: one or two of their needs met.
26:39
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask you this because I saw a situation
26:41
Speaker 1: where there was clearly an autistic, like twelve year old
26:44
Speaker 1: and some of these kids are big and they don't
26:47
Speaker 1: know how to handle our emotions, so they start punching back,
26:50
Speaker 1: they start getting the violent Oh yeah, oh yeah. I
26:53
Speaker 1: saw an aide subdue the kid in the most you know,
26:57
Speaker 1: the way he knew he could. Someone across the subway
27:01
Speaker 1: PLoP from was like, what are you doing? You're hurting them.
27:03
Speaker 1: I'm all like, no, he knows exactly what he's doing. Yeah,
27:06
Speaker 1: But I give a credit to a lot of those aides.
27:08
Speaker 1: I have to deal with that on a daily basis.
27:10
Speaker 2: They do a lot of violence. They're not getting well
27:12
Speaker 2: paid for it either.
27:13
Speaker 1: I'm setting up that question to ask you, if you
27:15
Speaker 1: have anybody with violent tendencies that come in and you
27:17
Speaker 1: kind of not straighten them out but make them h
27:20
Speaker 1: channel it more if you will.
27:22
Speaker 2: That is above my pay grade.
27:24
Speaker 1: Okay.
27:25
Speaker 2: People who come to me are usually very smart, very articulate,
27:33
Speaker 2: they're coming from them for themselves to help themselves manage,
27:37
Speaker 2: or they're coming for their children if there's there's an
27:42
Speaker 2: adult person with violent tendencies. My mission is definitely to
27:49
Speaker 2: be working on a larger scale helping to design environments
27:53
Speaker 2: where people who can't really live on their own can
27:58
Speaker 2: function at their best. And I have worked with nonprofits
28:03
Speaker 2: that have like adult living for clients like that, And
28:07
Speaker 2: I'll make where I'll make recommendations about reducing the amount
28:12
Speaker 2: of like really unpleasant sensory input and creating more sensory
28:18
Speaker 2: input that's gonna be regulating, like bring more nature in,
28:22
Speaker 2: bring you know, get a get a gym in the
28:25
Speaker 2: basement with some punching bags for God's sake. I mean,
28:28
Speaker 2: I've seen spaces like so underused. So but really it's
28:34
Speaker 2: about working with the larger environment, not trying to fix
28:37
Speaker 2: an individual.
28:38
Speaker 1: All right. I have to ask you this because the
28:40
Speaker 1: way you're talking, it sounds like either your background of
28:42
Speaker 1: social work or psychology. Is that right?
28:46
Speaker 2: It is not, but it is one of my interests.
28:48
Speaker 2: I'm I'm kind of a self taught psychology nerd and
28:51
Speaker 2: self taught neuroscience nerd. I've never I considered getting a
28:58
Speaker 2: degree in counseling or social work, but my background is
29:00
Speaker 2: actually massage therapy. Oh wow, I work directly with people's
29:06
Speaker 2: bodies and I'm really tuning into their nervous system when
29:10
Speaker 2: I'm working, and it's just so clear how the environment
29:12
Speaker 2: is affecting people's nervous system. So yeah, that's that was
29:17
Speaker 2: my way in. But it could just as easily have
29:19
Speaker 2: been psychology or social work.
29:20
Speaker 1: I could tell because you have that presence of mind
29:24
Speaker 1: to just sort of get to the core of someone's situation,
29:28
Speaker 1: you know what.
29:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look at the bigger the bigger cycle.
29:31
Speaker 1: Now the other thing. You know. I don't want to
29:33
Speaker 1: get political here, but there is a push here to
29:36
Speaker 1: get social workers involved in sort of cases where neurodivergence.
29:40
Speaker 1: Maybe cops are called in to deal with neurodivergence. Yeah.
29:44
Speaker 1: Do you think there's a way we can balance law
29:46
Speaker 1: enforcement and social work? I mean, could it be done?
29:48
Speaker 2: Uh? Oh, yes, I think that cops are grossly They're
29:54
Speaker 2: tasked with solving all the problems in society that take
29:58
Speaker 2: a lot of effort and energy and money that we
30:00
Speaker 2: don't want to bother with. The cops are being asked
30:03
Speaker 2: to handle things that they are not equipped to handle
30:07
Speaker 2: either financially, with resource wise with training. I definitely think
30:13
Speaker 2: that there could be more social more social worker intervention
30:19
Speaker 2: in situations where cops are generally called. And we've had
30:23
Speaker 2: some tragedies in Philadelphia. We've had neurodivergent people shot to
30:28
Speaker 2: death when they're having a mental health crisis, when what
30:31
Speaker 2: they needed was a social worker who was maybe trained
30:34
Speaker 2: in martial arts, but also trained in conflict de escalation.
30:39
Speaker 2: I feel that the either the cops need like a
30:43
Speaker 2: social work conflict de escalation team, or there needs to
30:48
Speaker 2: be like a whole nother branch of where we're really
30:53
Speaker 2: funneling resources into that and less resources into just militarized
31:00
Speaker 2: in the cops.
31:01
Speaker 1: This is why I'm gonna have you on because obviously
31:02
Speaker 1: it's a hot topic here in New York right now
31:04
Speaker 1: with the mayor elect wanting to replace cops with social workers.
31:08
Speaker 2: I don't think they should be replaced. I think they
31:10
Speaker 2: should be they should be collaborating.
31:12
Speaker 1: See that's why I think too, I don't think you've
31:14
Speaker 1: in this band a whole department.
31:15
Speaker 2: You've got to work Oh no, no, no, you've got
31:18
Speaker 2: to work together. Yes, I mean, and I really feel
31:20
Speaker 2: for cops because they're they're being asked to deal with
31:23
Speaker 2: mental health, They're being asked to deal with poverty, they're
31:26
Speaker 2: being asked to deal with violence, with with trash. My god,
31:31
Speaker 2: like I lived in New York for years, the trash
31:33
Speaker 2: pickup is couldn't be better.
31:37
Speaker 1: And then I have to ask you this then, because
31:40
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of homeless outreach and some of
31:43
Speaker 1: them are they're divergent. Let's be honest, they are something.
31:45
Speaker 1: They're homeless. Yeah, and a lot of people just are
31:47
Speaker 1: not willing to listen to these people that are in uniform.
31:50
Speaker 1: But they say, no, we don't want the help. Yeah,
31:52
Speaker 1: let's say these organizations come to you, how can you
31:56
Speaker 1: fix these problems? Maybe not on the whole, but at
32:00
Speaker 1: least maybe case by case where Okay, you want someone
32:03
Speaker 1: to come with you and your homeless outreach, what would
32:05
Speaker 1: you tell these teams that are trying.
32:08
Speaker 2: Oh wow, again, that is above my pay grade. What
32:14
Speaker 2: I see is that how distressed people are, how much
32:22
Speaker 2: they act out, has a whole lot to do with
32:25
Speaker 2: their physical environment. I was in DC recently. I live
32:31
Speaker 2: in Philadelphia. I spent a week in DC. The demographic
32:38
Speaker 2: in the areas that I was in d C was
32:40
Speaker 2: very similar to the demographics in Philadelphia. A lot of immigrants,
32:45
Speaker 2: a lot of working class, melting pot, like all kinds
32:50
Speaker 2: of different people. Philadelphia has a rage problem, Like you
32:54
Speaker 2: really need to be careful what you say, who you
32:58
Speaker 2: say it to, because as there could be just an out,
33:01
Speaker 2: there could be like a fight just in a half
33:03
Speaker 2: a second.
33:04
Speaker 1: I know. Well, unfortunately see that sporting events in Philly
33:07
Speaker 1: that does happen.
33:07
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm sure you know, yes, but yeah.
33:12
Speaker 1: I mean there are sometimes where these people are like
33:14
Speaker 1: are you kidding me? But it's human nature, I guess
33:17
Speaker 1: if you think about.
33:18
Speaker 2: It, Okay, it's it's context. Okay, there is research about this.
33:22
Speaker 2: When there is more green space, less annoying noise, better
33:27
Speaker 2: public transit, the streets are cleaner DC. The streets are clean,
33:31
Speaker 2: the public transit is clean, and.
33:33
Speaker 1: You don't some time. The metro in DC is so
33:36
Speaker 1: much better. I'm like, oh my god, it is so
33:38
Speaker 1: much better.
33:38
Speaker 2: You get on the train in Philly, it stinks. It's loud.
33:42
Speaker 2: I got on the train this weekend. There was a
33:44
Speaker 2: broken recording that just was repeating the same words over
33:48
Speaker 2: and over in my ear. The whole trip. I was
33:50
Speaker 2: ready to punch someone. By the time I got off
33:52
Speaker 2: that train DC I got on the bus, people were saying, hey,
33:56
Speaker 2: they were so sweet, they were like giving me advice.
34:00
Speaker 2: It was just the environment was conducive to civility. You
34:05
Speaker 2: put people in an uncaring, chaotic, gritty, dirty environment, they're
34:10
Speaker 2: gonna be angry, They're gonna have trouble emotionally regulating.
34:16
Speaker 1: Do New Yorkers give Philly fans a bad rap or
34:18
Speaker 1: they're just some really bad a Pilly's.
34:20
Speaker 2: Worse than New York. I've lived in both places. New
34:23
Speaker 2: Yorkers are nicer. New york Is they take better care
34:28
Speaker 2: of their parks. They plow the streets in the winter.
34:31
Speaker 2: Philly doesn't plow. Yeah. Yeah, And you can really measure
34:38
Speaker 2: that I've I've been in Europe, I've been in Mexico.
34:41
Speaker 2: There is a one to one correspondence between how how pretty,
34:46
Speaker 2: how clean, how how pleasant your surroundings are, and how
34:51
Speaker 2: people behave. People behave differently in different environments. They've done
34:56
Speaker 2: studies in prisons. People put in a prison like environment
35:00
Speaker 2: start acting like bullies. You take people out of the prison,
35:06
Speaker 2: put them in an environment with you know, birds and trees,
35:11
Speaker 2: and good smells and that's clean and they're going to
35:14
Speaker 2: be able to regulate better.
35:18
Speaker 1: This is such a great conversation, but I want to
35:21
Speaker 1: highlight the word sanctuary because yeah, I do feel like
35:26
Speaker 1: there's not enough awareness awareness with people when they're divergence
35:29
Speaker 1: that there is a sanctuary for them. Like, yeah, And
35:33
Speaker 1: what I've seen and observed is for nerve divergence always
35:39
Speaker 1: seems chaotic, that we don't think about the word sanctuary, right,
35:41
Speaker 1: So yeah, how do you hit that point home? Yes,
35:45
Speaker 1: my work is a sanctuary for you.
35:48
Speaker 2: Well, I help show people how to create their own
35:52
Speaker 2: personal sanctuary that has what they meet, which may not
35:56
Speaker 2: be what someone else needs. Everyone needs something different. I
36:00
Speaker 2: will just go through and pick out the clues in
36:02
Speaker 2: the environment and I'll ask, I'm like, okay, I see
36:05
Speaker 2: this object here, what meaning does it have? What do
36:08
Speaker 2: you like about it? What is the story? How do
36:11
Speaker 2: you feel about this color? How do you feel? How
36:13
Speaker 2: do you feel? How do you feel? And how do
36:15
Speaker 2: you feel in your body? Not just in your heart,
36:18
Speaker 2: not in your mind, but all of that. Once we've
36:22
Speaker 2: drilled down and I know what that person needs to
36:26
Speaker 2: feel good, we create a tiny little place where it's
36:31
Speaker 2: optimized where they have what they need. It could look
36:34
Speaker 2: like anything. It could be a balcony, it could be
36:37
Speaker 2: the corner of a basement. It could be the corner
36:40
Speaker 2: of a bedroom. It could be the landing, it could
36:43
Speaker 2: be anywhere.
36:44
Speaker 1: I want to share a lot of secrets, but I'll
36:46
Speaker 1: tell you my mom and I declutter my whole room
36:48
Speaker 1: because I had, yeah, act likes I had tryning, upon trying,
36:51
Speaker 1: upon trying, we sort of took down everything. I got
36:55
Speaker 1: a gram for the podcast right after we fixed everything.
36:58
Speaker 1: We got things fixed up, cleaned up. I don't know
37:02
Speaker 1: if I was barding everything, it just was all in
37:04
Speaker 1: different places. So we decluded that, and then all of
37:07
Speaker 1: a sudden, I got a new gig in radio. So
37:09
Speaker 1: it is true when you change your spaces.
37:12
Speaker 2: Things change everything. Yes, uh huh, yeah. It is a
37:16
Speaker 2: huge effect, huge ripple effect.
37:18
Speaker 1: And I think it just makes you happier too.
37:20
Speaker 2: It does, and that is that what we all want.
37:22
Speaker 2: We just want to be a little happier.
37:24
Speaker 1: Well, I'm so glad we had this first coming. I
37:26
Speaker 1: want to have so many conversations with you. But if
37:28
Speaker 1: people want to get involved, and what's your age range?
37:30
Speaker 1: I forgot to ask you what's your age range of kids?
37:33
Speaker 1: It doesn't go from kid to adult. What's your age.
37:34
Speaker 2: Range anyone who's interested. I mean, if it's kids, it's
37:39
Speaker 2: generally their families that bring me in. I've worked with
37:43
Speaker 2: all ages, and I also can work anywhere in the
37:46
Speaker 2: world as long as you have a good computer connection.
37:50
Speaker 2: A lot of my clients I work with them over Zoom,
37:52
Speaker 2: I work with them over WhatsApp. I have clients in
37:54
Speaker 2: other countries zoom, email, text, and I can support you
38:01
Speaker 2: from anywhere I know.
38:04
Speaker 1: And I don't always talk about climate change, but this
38:06
Speaker 1: has me asking about the climate and neurodivergence. Is their correlation?
38:11
Speaker 1: Is there something that makes the brain go crazy if
38:14
Speaker 1: our climate is not up to part.
38:16
Speaker 2: We're creatures, we emerge from this planet, and when the
38:21
Speaker 2: planet's climate changes, it's going to create intense stress in
38:25
Speaker 2: all of us one way or the other.
38:28
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I know divergent people who Yeah, the
38:32
Speaker 1: systems are all at an all time high and the
38:35
Speaker 1: news doesn't help it. So when we talk about your sanctuary,
38:38
Speaker 1: I think getting rid of all the news and the
38:42
Speaker 1: bad news specifically is important, right it.
38:46
Speaker 2: It definitely is. If your stress level is is in
38:50
Speaker 2: the stratospy and.
38:51
Speaker 1: We have people that are afraid to go out of
38:52
Speaker 1: our house right now, how do we fix it?
38:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, one of the things I have people do
38:58
Speaker 2: is optimize their space and get some emotional regulating practice
39:04
Speaker 2: that your space is cueuing you and supporting you to
39:06
Speaker 2: do so that you can expand your strength your vessel
39:13
Speaker 2: so that you can handle more. Because like I have
39:16
Speaker 2: gone on news fasts, but then when I'm in a
39:20
Speaker 2: good place, I need to open up and take in
39:22
Speaker 2: that news because if we're all ignoring it, it's just
39:25
Speaker 2: going to get worse and worse. We need to be
39:27
Speaker 2: able to manage ourselves regulate so that we can connect
39:31
Speaker 2: with other people, we can reach out, we can start
39:34
Speaker 2: making some positive changes.
39:38
Speaker 1: I know personally, I was a talkative kid and I've
39:41
Speaker 1: still talk into a podcast. But when you're talkative kids
39:45
Speaker 1: sometimes not really accepted. So do you find that people
39:49
Speaker 1: have that trouble like, oh my god, I was sort
39:50
Speaker 1: of silent?
39:53
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And rejection sensitive dysphoria is huge for people
39:57
Speaker 2: with ADHD and potentially auto really like people aren't going
40:05
Speaker 2: to just automatically accept you words at all, And that's
40:09
Speaker 2: not the goal. The goal is you accept yourself. You
40:14
Speaker 2: understand yourself, and then you start getting the tools to
40:18
Speaker 2: regulate yourself and learn to read the room, learn to
40:22
Speaker 2: notice when you've been talking for forty five minutes without
40:25
Speaker 2: taking a break. Have some kind of system for that.
40:28
Speaker 2: And that's not something that just neutive virgent people do.
40:32
Speaker 2: Everyone needs to learn to do that. We all need
40:34
Speaker 2: to be more self aware as well as we're sex
40:38
Speaker 2: self accepting. It's not like being self aware doesn't mean
40:42
Speaker 2: you're just down on yourself. Oh my god, I talk
40:44
Speaker 2: too much. I'm such a jerk. No, just be aware
40:49
Speaker 2: and learn how to manage it. We all have to
40:53
Speaker 2: do that, and we can expand our bands like.
40:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, harness energy, but then really it at the same time.
41:01
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, exactly got it.
41:04
Speaker 1: Well, this has been so enlightening and I feel inspired
41:07
Speaker 1: to just keep talking on my own stuff. So thank
41:09
Speaker 1: you for that.
41:10
Speaker 2: That's wonderful, and I love to.
41:12
Speaker 1: Stay in touch and keep working with you on different things.
41:14
Speaker 2: Yes, of course, just reach out anytime. I'm always here.
41:17
Speaker 1: And one more thing, because you're on pod match and
41:19
Speaker 1: this is powered by pod match, how's that connection been
41:22
Speaker 1: for you.
41:23
Speaker 2: It's been a game changer, It really has, Like I'm
41:26
Speaker 2: an introvert. I don't like I don't go to you know,
41:30
Speaker 2: three networking events a week. I'm not constantly out there schmoozing.
41:34
Speaker 2: I like deep conversations with interesting people. And pod Match
41:38
Speaker 2: has connected me with that. So I'm very grateful.
41:41
Speaker 1: And we have the motto having helping people have one
41:43
Speaker 1: leg up on life. You're doing that, but I think
41:46
Speaker 1: now you can inspire others to especially those who have
41:49
Speaker 1: a disability or a divergence, different ability whatever, to say, yes,
41:52
Speaker 1: you can start your own business. Have you found you're
41:54
Speaker 1: a divergent employer? Like, are you finding people are starting
41:57
Speaker 1: their business that have ever virgins?
42:00
Speaker 2: Oh? Half of my fellow particularly women business owners adhd
42:06
Speaker 2: you know, like they just the ordinary corporate environment just
42:10
Speaker 2: doesn't work for them, Like they felt like they had
42:12
Speaker 2: no other choice. And I I'm kind of in that
42:15
Speaker 2: in that realm myself, I didn't really want to be
42:18
Speaker 2: self employed. It's just that most corporate jobs had one
42:22
Speaker 2: or two or five.
42:23
Speaker 1: On every threat I have on this specific topic about
42:26
Speaker 1: entrepreneurship is about people that left corporate America to do
42:29
Speaker 1: their to do their business. It's it's a risk, it's
42:32
Speaker 1: not easy. But when they get off the ground and running.
42:34
Speaker 1: Look how rewarding it can be.
42:35
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's the only option.
42:38
Speaker 1: Well, Stephanie, I can talk all day. I love this
42:40
Speaker 1: chat and I want to have you back on soon,
42:43
Speaker 1: especially as the book keeps growing, and that.
42:45
Speaker 2: Would be great. Yeah, just just let me know you've
42:48
Speaker 2: got my contact ping me and we'll keep this going.
42:51
Speaker 2: And if you if you read my book and you're
42:53
Speaker 2: inspired by something, you know, just just text me and
42:56
Speaker 2: we'll you know, we'll we'll do a little talk about it.
42:58
Speaker 1: And again, where can we find the one more time?
43:00
Speaker 1: And you have a website, don't you?
43:01
Speaker 2: I do, yes, practical sanctuary dot com. Everything is there, email,
43:08
Speaker 2: free e course consultations, blog posts, everything.
43:12
Speaker 1: Stephanie ly Jackson, thanks for the time, and you're chat
43:15
Speaker 1: today on the one loo up network