Latest / Deep Transformation / Governor Jerry Brown on Life, Power, and the Future of Humanity

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Governor Jerry Brown on Life, Power, and the Future of Humanity · Deep Transformation

0:00
Welcome
0:00
to
0:01
the
0:01
first
0:01
part
0:01
of
0:01
our
0:01
conversation
0:02
with
0:02
former
0:03
California
0:03
Governor
0:04
Jerry
0:04
Brown.
0:05
Governor
0:05
Brown
0:06
is
0:06
a
0:06
planetary
0:06
visionary,
0:07
activist
0:08
and
0:08
elder
0:08
statesman
0:09
whose
0:09
wisdom,
0:09
wit
0:10
and
0:10
insightful
0:11
perspectives
0:11
on
0:12
what
0:12
are
0:12
the
0:12
challenges
0:13
of
0:13
our
0:13
times
0:13
and
0:14
our
0:14
most
0:14
important
0:14
priorities
0:15
make
0:15
this
0:15
a
0:16
must
0:16
see,
0:16
enlightening,
0:17
inspirational
0:18
and
0:18
in
0:18
depth
0:19
conversation.
0:24
Welcome
0:24
to
0:25
Deep
0:25
Transformation,
0:26
Self,
0:26
Society,
0:27
Spirit,
0:28
life
0:28
enhancing,
0:29
paradigm
0:30
rattling
0:30
conversations,
0:31
cutting
0:32
edge
0:32
thinkers,
0:32
contemplatives
0:33
and
0:34
activists
0:34
with
0:34
Dr.
0:35
Roger
0:35
Walsh
0:36
and
0:36
John
0:36
Dupuy.
0:40
I'm
0:40
Roger
0:40
Walsh
0:41
and
0:41
our
0:41
co
0:41
host
0:41
is
0:42
John
0:42
Dupuy.
0:43
And
0:43
today
0:44
our
0:44
guest
0:44
is
0:45
in
0:45
some
0:45
ways
0:46
the
0:46
easiest
0:46
to
0:46
introduce,
0:47
in
0:47
some
0:47
ways
0:48
the
0:48
hardest,
0:48
both
0:49
easiest
0:49
and
0:49
hardest
0:50
because
0:50
he
0:51
has
0:51
had
0:52
a
0:52
remarkably
0:54
rich
0:54
and
0:55
contributing
0:56
career.
0:57
And,
0:57
and
0:57
so
0:58
there
0:58
are
0:58
many
0:58
things
0:58
that
0:59
can
0:59
easily
0:59
be
0:59
mentioned.
1:00
On
1:00
the
1:00
other
1:00
hand,
1:01
if
1:01
we
1:01
covered
1:02
them
1:02
all,
1:02
we'd
1:03
be
1:03
taking
1:03
up
1:03
most
1:03
of
1:03
the
1:04
time
1:04
of
1:04
the
1:04
podcast.
1:05
I'm
1:05
speaking
1:06
about
1:06
Governor
1:06
Jerry
1:07
Brown,
1:08
who
1:08
among
1:09
other
1:09
things
1:10
has
1:10
been
1:11
the
1:11
longest
1:11
serving
1:12
governor
1:12
in
1:12
California
1:13
history
1:14
and
1:14
in
1:14
modern
1:15
times,
1:15
both
1:15
the
1:15
youngest
1:16
and
1:16
the
1:16
oldest.
1:17
But
1:17
in
1:18
addition
1:18
to
1:18
his
1:19
political
1:20
career,
1:20
which
1:20
is
1:21
stellar,
1:21
in
1:22
fact
1:22
one
1:22
of
1:22
the
1:22
most
1:22
outstanding
1:23
in
1:23
American
1:24
history,
1:25
he's
1:26
unusual
1:26
in
1:27
multiple
1:27
ways.
1:28
Having
1:28
been
1:29
deeply
1:29
influenced
1:30
by
1:30
his
1:31
Jesuit
1:32
background
1:32
and
1:33
training,
1:34
and
1:35
also
1:35
having
1:36
been
1:36
way
1:37
ahead
1:37
of
1:37
his
1:37
time
1:38
in
1:38
introducing
1:39
ecological
1:40
concerns,
1:41
alternative
1:42
energy,
1:43
having
1:43
had
1:44
a
1:44
deep
1:44
spiritual
1:45
side
1:46
to
1:46
him,
1:46
having
1:47
studied
1:47
Zen
1:48
in
1:48
Japan,
1:49
working
1:50
with
1:50
Mother
1:50
Teresa
1:51
directly
1:51
in
1:52
her
1:52
home
1:52
for
1:52
the
1:52
dying
1:53
in
1:53
Calcutta,
1:55
and
1:55
having
1:56
been
1:56
deeply
1:56
immersed
1:57
in
1:57
cultural
1:58
and
1:59
educational
1:59
issues
2:00
as
2:00
well.
2:01
And
2:02
he
2:02
now
2:02
lives
2:03
on
2:03
a
2:03
ranch
2:04
in
2:04
Northern
2:04
California.
2:05
And
2:05
I
2:05
think
2:06
certainly
2:07
one
2:07
of
2:07
the
2:07
most
2:07
unusual
2:08
things
2:09
is
2:09
that
2:09
at
2:10
his
2:10
ranch
2:10
he
2:10
supports
2:11
ecological
2:12
research
2:12
and
2:13
recently
2:13
had
2:14
a
2:14
beetle
2:14
named
2:15
after
2:15
him,
2:16
Bembidium
2:17
brownorum.
2:20
That's
2:20
one
2:20
of
2:21
a
2:21
kind.
2:21
So,
2:21
Jerry,
2:22
welcome.
2:22
Thank
2:22
you
2:23
so
2:23
much
2:23
for
2:23
joining
2:23
us.
2:24
It's
2:24
really
2:24
a
2:24
gift
2:25
to
2:25
be
2:26
with
2:26
you
2:26
and
2:26
to
2:27
have
2:27
you
2:27
with
2:27
us
2:27
today.
2:29
Well,
2:29
it's
2:30
a
2:30
pleasure
2:30
to
2:30
be
2:30
with
2:31
you
2:31
and
2:32
to
2:32
speak
2:32
and
2:33
converse
2:34
and
2:34
think
2:34
about
2:35
transformation.
2:36
It's
2:36
a
2:37
topic
2:37
under
2:38
different
2:38
names
2:39
I've
2:39
thought
2:39
about
2:40
for
2:40
many,
2:40
many
2:41
decades.
2:42
Back
2:42
in
2:43
the
2:43
Jesuit
2:44
life,
2:45
which
2:45
I
2:45
pursued
2:46
from
2:46
1956,
2:48
in
2:48
1960
2:49
in
2:49
a
2:50
seminary
2:51
that
2:51
was
2:51
very,
2:52
very
2:52
different
2:52
than
2:53
today,
2:53
almost
2:54
medieval
2:55
in
2:55
silence,
2:56
the
2:57
speaking
2:57
of
2:57
Latin,
2:58
following
2:58
very
2:59
close
2:59
regime.
3:00
Anyway,
3:01
one
3:01
of
3:02
the
3:02
goals,
3:02
if
3:03
not
3:03
the
3:03
key
3:03
goal,
3:04
was
3:05
what
3:05
they
3:05
call
3:06
the
3:06
life
3:06
of
3:06
perfection.
3:07
And
3:08
perfection
3:08
sounds
3:09
like
3:09
transformation
3:10
or
3:10
maybe
3:11
the
3:11
word
3:11
conversion.
3:12
So
3:12
my
3:13
thought
3:14
just
3:14
title
3:15
of
3:15
your
3:15
show,
3:16
transformation.
3:17
It's
3:18
a
3:18
term
3:18
that
3:18
I've
3:19
heard
3:20
many,
3:20
for
3:20
many,
3:21
many
3:21
years.
3:22
But
3:22
personally
3:22
I
3:23
find
3:23
am
3:24
I
3:24
transformed?
3:25
What
3:25
would
3:25
transformation
3:27
look
3:27
like?
3:28
That
3:28
is
3:29
a
3:29
more
3:29
haunting
3:30
question
3:31
that
3:31
I
3:31
don't
3:32
have
3:32
a
3:32
ready
3:33
answer
3:33
to.
3:34
So
3:34
I'd
3:34
say
3:35
that
3:35
the
3:35
transformative
3:36
process
3:37
and
3:38
the
3:38
life
3:38
and
3:38
perfection
3:39
are
3:40
not
3:40
free
3:40
of
3:40
ambiguity
3:41
or
3:42
question.
3:43
That
3:43
doesn't
3:43
mean
3:43
they're
3:44
not
3:44
worth
3:44
pursuing.
3:45
But
3:45
what
3:46
it
3:46
is
3:46
you're
3:46
pursuing,
3:47
I
3:47
think
3:48
should
3:48
be
3:48
a
3:49
matter
3:49
of
3:49
continuing
3:50
reflection.
3:52
Yeah,
3:52
kind
3:52
of
3:53
on.
3:53
So
3:53
you're
3:53
pointing
3:54
to
3:54
the
3:54
value
3:54
of
3:55
ongoing
3:55
inquiry
3:56
into
3:57
both
3:57
oneself
3:58
and
3:58
into
3:58
life
3:59
and
3:59
into
3:59
what
4:00
one
4:00
can
4:00
be.
4:01
And
4:01
it
4:01
feels
4:02
like
4:02
those
4:02
have
4:02
been
4:02
some
4:03
of
4:03
the
4:03
values
4:03
that
4:04
have
4:04
inspired
4:05
your
4:05
work
4:06
in
4:06
so
4:06
many
4:06
areas.
4:07
Of
4:07
course,
4:07
you're
4:08
best
4:08
known
4:08
for
4:09
your
4:09
political
4:09
work.
4:10
How
4:11
would
4:11
you
4:11
describe
4:11
the
4:12
values
4:12
that
4:12
have
4:13
most
4:13
powered
4:14
your
4:14
life
4:15
and
4:15
your
4:15
career
4:15
and
4:16
your
4:16
contributions?
4:17
Well,
4:18
first
4:18
of
4:18
all,
4:18
I
4:18
wouldn't
4:19
use
4:19
the
4:19
term
4:19
values,
4:21
term
4:21
that
4:22
I.
4:22
I'm
4:23
not
4:23
quite
4:23
sure.
4:24
Values.
4:25
It
4:25
tends
4:25
to
4:26
be
4:26
an
4:26
economic
4:26
term,
4:27
a
4:27
value
4:28
valuation.
4:30
Valora,
4:31
property
4:31
tax,
4:31
Advaloran
4:32
property
4:32
tax.
4:33
So
4:34
what
4:34
I
4:34
do
4:34
in
4:35
responding
4:35
to
4:35
that
4:36
term
4:36
or
4:37
that
4:37
idea,
4:38
having
4:38
substance,
4:39
word
4:39
orientation
4:40
or
4:41
one's
4:42
how
4:42
one's
4:43
shaped
4:43
in
4:43
life.
4:44
And
4:44
of
4:44
course,
4:44
we're
4:44
all
4:45
shaped
4:46
by
4:47
our
4:47
upbringing,
4:48
by
4:48
our
4:49
bodily
4:50
DNA
4:50
and
4:51
other
4:51
hormonal
4:52
influences
4:53
that
4:54
we
4:54
barely
4:54
understand,
4:55
but
4:55
which
4:55
shape
4:56
our
4:56
lives.
4:56
So
4:57
for
4:57
me,
4:58
the
4:58
key
4:58
factor
4:59
is.
4:59
I
4:59
was
4:59
born
4:59
in
5:00
1938
5:01
in
5:01
San
5:01
Francisco.
5:02
San
5:02
Francisco,
5:03
very
5:03
different
5:04
than
5:04
the
5:04
one
5:05
today.
5:05
We
5:06
had
5:06
a
5:06
Republican
5:07
mayor,
5:08
we
5:08
had.
5:08
Roosevelt
5:09
was
5:09
president.
5:10
In
5:10
fact,
5:10
we
5:10
had
5:10
a
5:11
Democrat
5:11
as
5:11
governor
5:12
that
5:12
nobody
5:13
knows
5:13
about,
5:13
Colbert
5:14
Olson.
5:14
But
5:14
growing
5:15
up
5:15
in
5:16
San
5:16
Francisco,
5:17
it
5:17
was
5:17
a
5:17
very
5:17
different
5:18
place,
5:19
totally
5:19
calmer,
5:20
really
5:21
a
5:21
Leave
5:22
it
5:22
to
5:22
Beaver
5:22
kind
5:23
of
5:23
situation.
5:25
Middle
5:25
class.
5:26
The
5:26
eruptions
5:27
of
5:27
the
5:27
60s
5:28
were
5:28
30
5:29
years
5:29
in
5:29
the
5:29
future.
5:30
So
5:30
I
5:30
think
5:31
that
5:31
growing
5:32
up
5:32
and
5:32
unquestioning,
5:33
we
5:33
said
5:34
the
5:34
Pledge
5:34
of
5:34
Allegiance
5:35
in
5:36
school,
5:36
put
5:36
our
5:37
hand
5:37
over
5:37
our
5:37
heart.
5:38
No
5:38
one
5:39
challenged.
5:39
Well,
5:40
wait
5:40
a
5:40
minute.
5:40
What
5:40
are
5:40
we
5:40
doing
5:40
this?
5:41
There
5:41
was
5:41
no
5:41
challenge
5:42
there.
5:42
I
5:43
was
5:43
a
5:43
Boy
5:43
Scout.
5:44
I
5:45
just
5:45
went
5:45
to
5:45
the
5:46
hundredth
5:46
anniversary
5:47
of
5:48
the
5:48
camp,
5:49
Camp
5:49
Roya,
5:49
where
5:50
I
5:50
stayed
5:50
near
5:50
the
5:50
Russian
5:51
river
5:51
and
5:52
gave
5:52
a
5:52
little
5:52
talk
5:52
there.
5:53
So.
5:54
But
5:54
I
5:54
think
5:54
that
5:55
upbringing
5:56
in
5:56
a.
5:57
We
5:57
call
5:57
it
5:57
conservative
5:58
today.
5:58
I
5:59
just
5:59
thought
5:59
that
5:59
was
6:00
reality
6:00
as
6:00
I
6:01
experienced
6:01
it.
6:01
And
6:02
my
6:02
father
6:02
was
6:03
a
6:03
lawyer.
6:04
My
6:04
mother,
6:04
of
6:04
course,
6:04
was
6:05
just
6:05
a
6:05
homemaker.
6:06
Well,
6:07
I
6:07
wouldn't
6:07
say
6:07
just
6:08
because
6:08
that's
6:08
quite
6:08
a
6:09
job.
6:09
And
6:09
I
6:09
had
6:10
two
6:10
older
6:10
sisters
6:11
and
6:12
my
6:12
father
6:13
ran
6:13
for
6:13
District
6:13
Attorney
6:14
of
6:15
San
6:15
Francisco
6:15
in
6:15
1943.
6:16
So
6:17
he
6:17
was
6:17
campaigning
6:18
when
6:19
I
6:19
was
6:19
five
6:19
years
6:19
old.
6:20
I
6:20
was
6:20
in
6:20
kindergarten
6:21
in
6:22
San
6:22
Francisco
6:22
at
6:23
a
6:23
place
6:23
called
6:23
West
6:23
Portal.
6:24
And
6:24
he
6:24
was
6:25
elected
6:25
DA.
6:26
And
6:26
he
6:26
was
6:26
sworn
6:27
in
6:27
on
6:28
January
6:28
8,
6:29
1944.
6:30
I
6:30
have
6:31
a
6:31
picture
6:31
of
6:31
that
6:32
event
6:32
at
6:32
The
6:33
San
6:33
Francisco
6:33
City
6:34
hall,
6:34
the
6:34
mayor,
6:35
my
6:35
father,
6:35
and
6:36
all
6:36
the
6:36
digitaries,
6:37
mostly
6:38
men
6:38
that
6:39
were
6:39
involved
6:39
in
6:39
that.
6:39
But
6:40
that's
6:40
the
6:40
world.
6:41
So
6:41
I've
6:42
reflected
6:42
on
6:42
the
6:42
fact
6:43
of
6:43
how
6:43
different
6:44
that
6:44
world
6:44
is.
6:45
So
6:46
there's
6:46
an
6:46
orderliness,
6:48
there's
6:48
a
6:48
lack
6:48
of
6:49
ambiguity.
6:50
This
6:50
is
6:50
the
6:50
way
6:50
the
6:51
world
6:51
is.
6:51
That's
6:52
the
6:52
way
6:52
it
6:52
is
6:52
everywhere.
6:53
And
6:53
we
6:53
didn't
6:54
think
6:54
about
6:55
the
6:55
Holocaust.
6:56
In
6:56
fact,
6:57
with
6:57
a
6:57
nuclear
6:58
bomb,
6:58
I
6:58
can
6:58
remember
6:59
kid
6:59
across
7:00
the
7:00
street,
7:00
Brian
7:00
Daly,
7:01
telling
7:01
me,
7:01
this
7:02
atomic
7:02
bomb
7:03
is
7:03
really
7:03
something,
7:04
but
7:04
I
7:04
didn't
7:04
quite
7:05
know
7:05
what
7:05
it
7:05
was.
7:05
I
7:05
know
7:05
it
7:05
was
7:06
a
7:06
big
7:06
bomb.
7:07
So
7:07
that's
7:08
a
7:08
level
7:08
of
7:08
innocence
7:09
that
7:09
very
7:10
much
7:10
at
7:10
variance
7:11
with
7:11
what
7:12
you
7:12
think
7:12
of
7:12
as
7:12
San
7:13
Francisco
7:13
today.
7:14
Also,
7:15
when
7:15
I
7:15
think
7:15
of
7:15
being
7:16
influenced,
7:17
my
7:17
grandmother
7:18
would
7:18
read
7:19
me
7:19
Bible
7:19
stories.
7:20
Bible
7:20
stories,
7:21
you
7:21
know,
7:21
Moses
7:22
and
7:22
the
7:22
bulrushes,
7:23
Sodom
7:24
and
7:24
Gomorrah,
7:25
Cain
7:26
and
7:26
Abel.
7:27
And
7:27
at
7:27
the
7:27
same
7:27
time,
7:28
she
7:28
told
7:28
me
7:29
about
7:29
her
7:29
upbringing
7:30
at
7:30
the
7:31
Mountain
7:31
House.
7:31
And
7:32
the
7:32
Mountain
7:32
House
7:32
was
7:32
a
7:33
stagecoach
7:33
stop
7:34
where
7:34
she
7:35
was
7:35
born,
7:35
right
7:35
near
7:35
there
7:36
and
7:36
grew
7:36
up.
7:37
And
7:37
that's
7:37
where
7:37
I
7:37
live
7:38
today.
7:38
That
7:39
land
7:39
is
7:39
still
7:39
in
7:39
our
7:40
family.
7:40
And
7:41
I
7:41
built
7:41
a
7:41
house
7:41
there
7:42
and
7:42
restored
7:43
the
7:43
barns
7:44
and.
7:44
But
7:45
the
7:45
point
7:45
was,
7:46
she
7:46
said
7:46
the
7:46
Mountain
7:47
House
7:47
was
7:48
a
7:48
very
7:48
special
7:49
place
7:49
and
7:50
that
7:50
that
7:50
left
7:51
an
7:51
impression
7:51
on
7:51
me.
7:52
So
7:52
when
7:53
I
7:53
had
7:53
the
7:53
chance,
7:54
well,
7:54
number
7:54
one,
7:55
I
7:55
got
7:55
my
7:55
father's
7:56
interest
7:56
in
7:56
the
7:56
land
7:57
given
7:58
to
7:58
me,
7:59
and
7:59
then
7:59
I
7:59
decided
8:00
I
8:00
would
8:01
build
8:01
a
8:01
house
8:01
there
8:01
and
8:01
I
8:02
would
8:02
move
8:02
there
8:03
after
8:03
the
8:03
governor's
8:04
office,
8:04
after
8:05
my
8:05
term,
8:06
which
8:06
ended
8:06
in
8:07
2019,
8:08
January.
8:09
So
8:10
those
8:10
are
8:11
influences,
8:12
and
8:12
I'm
8:12
saying
8:13
regularity.
8:14
You
8:14
know,
8:14
there's
8:15
a
8:15
right
8:15
and
8:15
there's
8:16
a
8:16
wrong.
8:17
America
8:18
is
8:18
a
8:19
great
8:19
country.
8:20
Our
8:20
leaders
8:20
are,
8:21
you
8:21
know,
8:22
a
8:22
great
8:22
people.
8:23
Roosevelt
8:24
was
8:24
great.
8:25
You
8:25
know,
8:25
that's
8:26
how
8:26
I
8:26
grew
8:26
up.
8:27
Very
8:27
different
8:27
than
8:28
the
8:28
post
8:29
colonial,
8:30
postmodern
8:32
skepticism
8:33
about
8:34
truth,
8:35
about
8:35
values.
8:36
The
8:37
whole
8:37
question
8:38
about,
8:38
you
8:39
know,
8:39
what's
8:39
really
8:40
going
8:40
on,
8:41
the
8:41
epistemology
8:43
that
8:43
we
8:44
all.
8:45
We
8:45
see
8:45
in
8:45
the
8:45
world
8:46
very
8:46
different
8:47
after
8:47
a
8:48
Foucault
8:49
or
8:49
after
8:50
the
8:50
influence
8:51
of
8:51
Nietzsche
8:51
and
8:52
others,
8:53
it's
8:53
a
8:53
totally
8:53
different
8:53
world.
8:54
I
8:54
grew
8:55
up
8:55
in
8:55
a
8:55
very
8:55
stable
8:57
world
8:57
order.
8:58
You
8:58
know,
8:58
in
8:58
my
8:58
block,
8:59
we
8:59
probably
8:59
had
9:00
maybe
9:00
there's
9:01
15
9:02
houses,
9:02
20
9:03
houses.
9:03
And
9:03
maybe
9:04
I
9:04
once
9:04
chatted
9:04
once.
9:05
There
9:05
were
9:05
60
9:05
kids.
9:06
And
9:06
of
9:07
all
9:07
the
9:07
people
9:07
I
9:07
knew,
9:08
all
9:08
the
9:08
families
9:08
there,
9:09
there
9:09
was
9:09
one
9:10
woman
9:11
who'd
9:11
been
9:11
married
9:12
before,
9:13
and
9:13
so
9:14
she
9:14
was
9:14
a
9:14
divorcee,
9:15
and
9:16
that
9:16
was
9:16
a
9:16
big
9:16
deal.
9:17
Everybody
9:18
else,
9:18
his
9:19
mommy
9:19
and
9:19
daddy.
9:20
And
9:21
it
9:21
was
9:21
all,
9:22
you
9:22
know,
9:22
we
9:22
had
9:22
one
9:23
Jewish
9:23
family,
9:24
no
9:24
Mexican
9:25
American,
9:25
no
9:26
African
9:26
American.
9:27
So
9:28
it
9:28
was
9:28
a
9:28
fairly
9:28
homogeneous,
9:30
clear
9:32
world
9:32
that
9:33
I
9:33
came
9:33
up
9:33
in.
9:34
So
9:34
that
9:34
is
9:35
an
9:35
anchor
9:35
point
9:36
that
9:36
I
9:37
view.
9:37
The.
9:38
The
9:38
more
9:38
chaotic,
9:39
unpredictable,
9:40
deconstructive
9:42
sense
9:43
that
9:43
we
9:44
now
9:44
inevitably
9:45
share
9:46
in
9:46
the
9:46
world
9:46
of
9:47
20
9:47
and
9:48
25.
9:50
Yeah,
9:50
definitely
9:51
the
9:51
world
9:51
that
9:51
I
9:51
grew
9:52
up
9:52
in,
9:52
Jerry.
9:52
And.
9:53
And
9:53
then
9:53
the
9:54
60s
9:54
happened,
9:54
but
9:55
things
9:55
were
9:55
squared
9:56
away.
9:56
My
9:56
father
9:57
was
9:57
a
9:57
veteran
9:57
from
9:57
World
9:58
War
9:58
II,
9:58
decorated,
9:59
a
9:59
good
10:00
man,
10:01
Catholic.
10:01
I
10:01
grew
10:02
up
10:02
also,
10:03
and
10:03
there
10:03
seemed
10:03
to
10:03
be
10:03
a
10:04
lot
10:04
of
10:04
stability
10:05
and
10:05
right
10:06
and
10:06
wrong
10:06
and
10:06
decency,
10:08
and
10:08
my
10:08
parents
10:09
would
10:09
never
10:09
think
10:10
of
10:10
cheating
10:10
on
10:10
their
10:11
taxes.
10:11
And,
10:12
you
10:12
know,
10:12
it
10:12
was
10:12
just.
10:13
It
10:13
was
10:13
such
10:13
a
10:13
stability
10:14
there,
10:14
and
10:15
I
10:15
really
10:15
value
10:15
that.
10:16
And
10:16
then
10:17
the
10:17
world
10:17
changed,
10:18
and
10:18
I
10:18
lived
10:18
in
10:18
San
10:19
Francisco
10:19
also,
10:19
and
10:20
I.
10:20
I'd
10:20
love
10:20
to
10:21
hear
10:21
what
10:21
you
10:21
think
10:21
about
10:21
San
10:22
Francisco
10:22
today
10:22
as
10:23
opposed
10:23
to
10:24
when
10:24
you
10:24
were
10:24
there,
10:25
and
10:25
the
10:25
transformation
10:26
and
10:26
change
10:26
that
10:27
we've
10:27
been
10:27
going
10:27
through
10:27
so,
10:28
so
10:29
incredibly
10:29
quickly,
10:30
and
10:30
how
10:30
to
10:31
ride
10:31
that
10:31
wave,
10:31
how
10:32
to
10:32
be
10:32
present
10:32
with
10:32
that.
10:33
Well,
10:34
I
10:34
am
10:36
somewhat,
10:36
I
10:37
certainly
10:38
anarchist
10:40
perspective,
10:41
certain
10:41
predilection,
10:43
certainly,
10:43
to
10:43
question
10:44
authority.
10:45
What
10:45
I
10:45
will
10:45
say
10:45
as
10:46
I
10:46
look
10:46
at
10:46
the
10:46
chaos,
10:47
as
10:47
I
10:48
walk
10:48
from
10:49
my
10:49
apartment
10:50
where
10:50
I
10:50
am
10:50
now,
10:51
down
10:51
toward
10:52
Martin
10:52
City
10:52
hall,
10:53
you
10:53
see
10:54
people
10:54
yelling
10:55
on
10:55
the
10:55
street,
10:55
people
10:56
sitting,
10:57
smoking
10:57
or
10:58
dealing
10:58
dope
10:58
or
10:59
acting
11:00
very
11:00
strangely.
11:01
So
11:01
it's
11:01
a
11:02
chaotic
11:02
world.
11:03
And
11:03
that
11:04
chaos,
11:04
I
11:04
think,
11:05
spread
11:05
throughout
11:06
the
11:06
whole
11:06
country
11:07
is
11:07
one
11:07
of
11:07
the
11:07
contributing
11:08
factors
11:09
to
11:09
the
11:09
presidency
11:10
of
11:10
Donald
11:10
Trump.
11:11
He
11:11
enjoys
11:12
a
11:12
widespread
11:13
support,
11:14
certainly
11:14
among
11:14
Republicans
11:15
throughout
11:16
the
11:16
whole
11:16
society.
11:17
It's
11:17
not
11:17
50%,
11:18
but
11:19
it's
11:19
above
11:19
40%.
11:20
And
11:20
I
11:21
think
11:21
he's
11:22
phenomenon,
11:23
and
11:23
the
11:23
way
11:23
he's
11:24
tearing
11:24
down
11:24
institutions
11:25
and
11:26
so
11:26
transactional,
11:27
doing
11:28
whatever
11:28
he
11:29
feels
11:29
like
11:30
that
11:30
is
11:31
perceived
11:32
as
11:32
fighting
11:33
this
11:33
chaos,
11:34
whatever
11:35
the.
11:35
This
11:36
different
11:37
modern
11:37
world
11:38
for
11:38
a
11:38
lot
11:38
of
11:38
people
11:39
is
11:39
something
11:40
they
11:40
don't
11:40
like.
11:40
And
11:41
they're
11:41
perceiving
11:42
Trump
11:43
as
11:43
an
11:43
avenger,
11:44
somebody
11:44
who's
11:45
going
11:45
to
11:45
bring
11:45
back
11:46
the
11:46
America
11:47
that
11:47
they
11:47
knew.
11:48
So
11:48
I
11:48
think
11:49
while
11:50
static
11:51
or
11:52
stultified
11:53
or
11:54
not
11:54
changing
11:55
is
11:55
bad,
11:56
but
11:56
a
11:57
heightened
11:58
tempo
11:58
of
11:59
change
12:00
that
12:00
is
12:00
perceived
12:01
as
12:01
chaotic
12:02
or
12:02
as
12:03
contrary
12:03
to
12:03
what
12:04
people
12:04
learned
12:04
when
12:04
they're
12:05
growing
12:05
up,
12:05
that
12:06
is
12:06
very
12:06
unsettling.
12:07
And
12:07
that
12:07
unsettlement,
12:08
I
12:09
think,
12:09
feeds
12:10
Trump
12:10
to
12:10
the
12:10
point
12:11
where,
12:12
I
12:12
don't
12:12
know,
12:12
10,
12:13
20,
12:14
30%
12:14
believe
12:15
that
12:15
Trump
12:15
is
12:15
actually
12:16
sent
12:16
by
12:17
God
12:17
to
12:17
correct
12:18
all
12:19
this
12:19
chaos,
12:20
this
12:21
work
12:21
of
12:21
the
12:21
devil,
12:22
as
12:22
it
12:22
were.
12:23
So
12:23
we're
12:24
in
12:24
a
12:24
clashing
12:25
civilization
12:26
here
12:27
with
12:27
contending
12:27
forces.
12:28
And
12:29
so
12:29
that's
12:29
the
12:30
way
12:30
I
12:30
see
12:30
it.
12:31
Very
12:31
hard
12:32
to
12:32
govern,
12:32
very
12:33
hard
12:33
to
12:33
earn
12:33
respect.
12:34
And
12:35
there
12:35
we
12:35
are.
12:35
So
12:36
it's
12:36
an
12:36
exciting
12:37
period.
12:37
There's
12:38
a
12:38
lot
12:38
of
12:38
openness,
12:40
there's
12:40
creativity,
12:41
there's
12:41
the
12:42
Silicon
12:42
Valley,
12:43
the
12:43
world
12:44
of
12:44
art
12:45
learning.
12:46
It's
12:46
all
12:46
very
12:46
vibrant.
12:47
But
12:47
like
12:48
the
12:48
Weimar
12:48
Republic,
12:49
this
12:50
level
12:50
of
12:50
freedom
12:51
also
12:52
can
12:52
be
12:52
associated
12:53
with
12:53
such
12:54
fear
12:54
and
12:55
trembling
12:55
and
12:56
chaos
12:56
that
12:57
then
12:57
people
12:57
seem
12:58
look
12:58
for
12:58
the
12:59
strong
12:59
leader,
13:00
the
13:00
strong
13:00
man,
13:01
fascism,
13:02
to
13:03
calm
13:03
the
13:03
waters
13:04
and
13:04
to
13:04
reduce
13:05
their
13:05
anxiety
13:06
and
13:06
insecurity.
13:07
So
13:07
that's
13:08
where
13:08
we
13:08
are.
13:08
It's
13:08
a
13:09
tale
13:09
of
13:09
two
13:10
cities,
13:10
very
13:11
exciting,
13:11
but
13:12
very
13:12
dangerous.
13:14
And
13:14
you're
13:14
pointing
13:15
to
13:15
one
13:15
of
13:16
the
13:16
great
13:16
characteristics
13:17
of
13:17
our
13:17
time,
13:17
Jerry,
13:18
and
13:18
that
13:18
is
13:18
the
13:19
extraordinary
13:20
rate
13:20
of
13:20
transformation
13:21
and
13:21
the
13:22
destabilization
13:23
of
13:24
everything
13:25
from
13:26
supposedly
13:27
bedrock
13:28
institutions
13:29
to
13:30
cultural
13:31
ways
13:32
of
13:32
understanding,
13:33
of
13:33
making
13:33
sense
13:34
of
13:34
the
13:34
world.
13:35
It's
13:35
been
13:35
called
13:35
a
13:35
crisis
13:36
of
13:36
sense
13:37
making,
13:37
an
13:37
epistemological
13:38
crisis.
13:39
I
13:39
mean,
13:39
so
13:40
many
13:40
names
13:40
pointing
13:41
to
13:41
the
13:41
fact
13:41
that
13:42
there
13:42
is
13:43
a
13:43
dramatic
13:44
reduction
13:45
in
13:45
instability
13:46
and
13:47
the
13:47
ability
13:48
to
13:48
make
13:49
sense
13:49
of
13:49
what's
13:50
happening.
13:50
There's
13:50
just
13:51
too
13:51
much
13:51
happening
13:51
for
13:52
most
13:52
people
13:52
to
13:52
be
13:53
able
13:53
to
13:53
comprehend.
13:54
It
13:54
results
13:55
in
13:55
a
13:55
sense
13:55
of
13:56
confusion
13:56
and
13:57
a
13:57
grasping
13:58
after
14:00
the
14:00
idea
14:01
or
14:01
even
14:01
the
14:02
myth
14:02
of
14:03
a
14:03
golden
14:04
era
14:04
in
14:04
the
14:04
past.
14:05
Make
14:05
America
14:06
great
14:06
again,
14:07
or
14:08
of
14:09
someone
14:09
who
14:09
will
14:10
get
14:10
us
14:11
back
14:11
to
14:11
this
14:12
old
14:12
way
14:12
of
14:13
being.
14:13
And
14:13
clearly,
14:14
I
14:14
think
14:14
one
14:14
of
14:14
the
14:14
implications
14:15
of
14:15
what
14:15
you're
14:15
saying
14:16
is
14:16
there's
14:16
no
14:16
way
14:16
back.
14:17
How
14:17
do
14:18
we
14:18
manage
14:19
this
14:19
chaotic
14:20
process
14:21
of
14:22
both
14:22
positive
14:23
and
14:23
negative
14:24
dimensions
14:25
and
14:25
changes?
14:26
Yeah,
14:27
well,
14:28
it
14:28
feels
14:28
like
14:29
life
14:29
has
14:30
speeded
14:30
up,
14:31
certainly
14:32
through
14:32
the
14:32
media,
14:32
through
14:33
the
14:33
Internet,
14:34
to
14:34
the
14:34
profusion
14:35
or
14:36
explosion
14:37
of
14:37
knowledge,
14:38
of
14:38
memes,
14:39
of
14:39
imagery,
14:40
of
14:40
stories.
14:41
All
14:41
that
14:41
is
14:42
bombarding
14:43
all
14:43
of
14:43
us.
14:44
Well,
14:44
the
14:44
challenge
14:45
is,
14:45
for
14:46
example,
14:46
in
14:46
a
14:46
democracy,
14:48
you
14:48
need
14:48
a
14:48
consensus.
14:49
You're
14:50
going
14:50
to
14:50
have
14:50
we
14:50
the
14:50
people.
14:51
The
14:52
we
14:52
has
14:52
to
14:52
have
14:52
some
14:52
coherence.
14:53
And
14:54
we
14:54
don't
14:54
have
14:54
we
14:55
the
14:55
people.
14:55
We
14:55
have
14:56
many
14:56
different
14:58
subsets.
14:59
You've
14:59
got
14:59
three.
15:00
You
15:00
know,
15:00
the
15:01
religious
15:01
right,
15:02
you
15:02
have
15:02
the
15:03
progressive
15:03
left,
15:04
you
15:04
have
15:05
many
15:05
people
15:05
in
15:06
between.
15:07
So
15:07
getting
15:07
a
15:08
stable
15:09
consensus
15:10
on
15:10
which
15:10
the
15:10
rule
15:11
of
15:11
law
15:11
can
15:11
really
15:11
work
15:12
and
15:12
be
15:12
supported.
15:13
We
15:13
don't
15:13
have
15:13
that
15:14
right
15:14
now.
15:14
And
15:15
how
15:15
we
15:15
get
15:15
that
15:16
remains
15:16
to
15:16
be
15:17
seen.
15:17
And
15:17
it's
15:18
not
15:18
just
15:18
America.
15:19
In
15:19
Europe,
15:19
you
15:20
have
15:20
far
15:20
right
15:21
parties.
15:22
And
15:22
I
15:22
don't
15:22
want
15:22
to
15:22
use
15:23
the
15:23
word
15:23
right
15:24
because
15:24
it's
15:24
a
15:24
matter
15:24
of
15:25
authoritarian.
15:26
You
15:26
want
15:27
a
15:27
strong
15:27
person.
15:29
Some
15:29
people
15:29
want
15:30
not
15:30
everybody,
15:31
but
15:31
there's
15:31
a
15:31
vacuum.
15:32
There
15:32
was
15:32
a
15:32
time
15:32
in
15:32
the
15:33
30s,
15:34
Mussolini,
15:35
you
15:35
had
15:36
dictators
15:36
showing
15:37
up,
15:37
different
15:37
parts
15:38
of
15:38
the
15:38
world,
15:38
different
15:39
countries,
15:39
and
15:40
that
15:40
tendency
15:41
to
15:41
look
15:41
for
15:42
the
15:42
one
15:42
man
15:43
show
15:43
the
15:44
one
15:44
person
15:45
who's
15:45
going
15:45
to
15:45
Bring
15:46
order.
15:46
Could
15:46
be
15:46
a
15:46
woman,
15:47
too.
15:47
You
15:47
have
15:47
a
15:48
woman
15:48
in
15:48
Italy
15:49
whose
15:49
father
15:50
was
15:50
a
15:50
fascist.
15:51
So
15:52
the
15:52
democratic
15:53
idea
15:54
when
15:54
I
15:54
grew
15:55
up
15:55
was
15:55
unquestioned.
15:56
Today,
15:56
it's
15:57
really
15:57
up
15:57
for
15:57
grabs.
15:58
Can
15:58
we
15:58
run
15:59
a
15:59
country
16:00
with
16:00
diversity,
16:01
with
16:02
checks
16:02
and
16:02
balances,
16:03
with
16:03
differing
16:04
opinions
16:06
being
16:06
worked
16:07
out
16:07
and
16:08
mediated
16:08
in
16:09
society?
16:09
And
16:10
right
16:10
now,
16:10
we're
16:11
not
16:11
seeing
16:11
that.
16:12
It's
16:12
zero
16:12
sum,
16:13
it's
16:13
win.
16:14
And
16:14
even
16:14
in
16:14
the
16:15
foreign
16:15
policy,
16:16
if
16:16
you
16:17
suddenly,
16:17
one
16:17
of
16:18
the
16:18
biggest,
16:18
most
16:19
common,
16:20
I
16:20
call
16:21
it
16:21
a
16:21
cliche,
16:21
is
16:22
we
16:22
have
16:22
to
16:23
win.
16:23
We
16:24
have
16:24
to
16:24
win
16:24
against
16:24
China.
16:25
We
16:26
have
16:26
to
16:26
beat
16:26
China.
16:27
Well,
16:27
if
16:28
you
16:28
say
16:29
you
16:29
want
16:29
USC
16:30
to
16:30
beat
16:31
Notre
16:31
Dame
16:31
in
16:31
football,
16:32
you
16:32
know
16:32
what
16:33
that
16:33
means?
16:33
Well,
16:33
when
16:34
you
16:34
say
16:34
the
16:35
US
16:36
330
16:36
million
16:37
people
16:37
are
16:37
going
16:38
to
16:38
beat
16:38
China,
16:39
1.4
16:41
billion
16:41
people,
16:42
what
16:42
does
16:42
that
16:42
even
16:43
mean?
16:43
I
16:43
would
16:44
suggest,
16:45
and
16:45
I
16:45
believe
16:45
it's
16:46
not
16:46
clear
16:46
at
16:46
all.
16:47
And
16:47
so
16:48
there
16:48
we
16:49
are.
16:49
We're
16:49
trying
16:49
to
16:50
impose
16:51
a
16:51
framework
16:52
that
16:53
might
16:53
fit
16:54
on
16:54
the
16:54
football
16:55
field,
16:55
but
16:55
it
16:56
doesn't
16:56
fit
16:56
in
16:56
international
16:58
relations
16:58
because
16:59
we're
16:59
on
16:59
this
16:59
planet.
17:00
We
17:00
got
17:00
8
17:00
billion
17:01
people.
17:01
We
17:02
have
17:02
all
17:02
these
17:02
problems
17:03
with
17:03
climate
17:04
getting
17:04
worse,
17:05
with
17:05
biodiversity
17:06
suffering,
17:07
weaponry
17:08
and
17:09
bio
17:09
threats
17:10
and
17:11
all
17:11
sorts
17:11
of
17:11
things
17:12
occurring.
17:13
Lots
17:13
of
17:13
power.
17:14
And
17:14
it
17:14
has
17:14
to
17:15
be
17:15
managed
17:16
with
17:16
some
17:16
rules.
17:17
But
17:17
in
17:17
order
17:17
to
17:18
have
17:18
rules,
17:18
you
17:18
got
17:18
to
17:18
have
17:18
a
17:19
consensus.
17:19
In
17:19
order
17:19
to
17:20
have
17:20
a
17:20
consensus,
17:20
you
17:20
have
17:20
to
17:21
have
17:21
shared
17:21
belief,
17:22
which
17:22
we
17:22
don't
17:22
have.
17:23
So
17:23
that's
17:23
the
17:24
big
17:24
challenge.
17:24
Can
17:24
we
17:25
find
17:25
some
17:26
commonality,
17:27
Some
17:27
things
17:28
as
17:28
human
17:28
beings,
17:29
we
17:29
know
17:29
and
17:30
we
17:30
can
17:30
share.
17:31
And
17:31
right
17:31
now,
17:31
the,
17:32
the
17:32
demagoguery,
17:33
the
17:33
payoff
17:34
for
17:35
scapegoating
17:36
is
17:36
very
17:36
high.
17:37
And
17:37
I
17:37
would
17:38
say,
17:38
and
17:38
this
17:39
is
17:39
a
17:39
sad
17:40
report,
17:41
but
17:41
just
17:41
from
17:41
my
17:42
understanding
17:42
of
17:42
politics,
17:43
if
17:43
you
17:44
say
17:44
in
17:45
your
17:45
mind,
17:45
well,
17:45
the
17:46
problem
17:46
is
17:46
unaffordable
17:47
housing.
17:48
The
17:48
problem
17:48
is
17:49
homeless
17:50
and
17:50
mentally
17:50
ill
17:50
people.
17:51
The
17:51
problem
17:52
is
17:52
rising
17:53
prices,
17:55
okay?
17:55
The
17:55
problem
17:56
is
17:56
too
17:56
many
17:56
fires
17:57
and
17:57
floods,
17:58
okay?
17:58
If
17:59
you
17:59
want
17:59
to
17:59
give
17:59
an
17:59
answer
18:00
to
18:00
that,
18:00
it's
18:00
going
18:01
to
18:01
cost
18:01
enormous
18:02
sums
18:03
of
18:03
money,
18:03
and
18:04
you're
18:04
going
18:04
to
18:04
have
18:04
to
18:05
change
18:05
people's
18:06
positions
18:07
in
18:07
ways
18:07
that
18:08
they're
18:08
not
18:08
going
18:08
to
18:09
let.
18:09
So
18:10
actually,
18:11
solving
18:11
these
18:11
problems
18:12
is,
18:13
politically,
18:14
at
18:14
this
18:14
point,
18:15
is
18:15
virtually
18:15
impossible.
18:16
But
18:17
if
18:17
you
18:17
can
18:17
construct
18:18
a
18:19
narrative
18:20
and
18:20
a
18:20
framework
18:21
that
18:22
a
18:22
certain
18:22
subgroup
18:23
is
18:23
responsible.
18:24
And
18:25
if
18:25
we
18:25
just
18:26
take
18:26
care
18:26
of
18:26
them,
18:27
if
18:27
we
18:27
control
18:27
them,
18:28
we
18:28
expel
18:29
the
18:29
immigrants,
18:30
if
18:30
we
18:30
control
18:31
the
18:31
lefties,
18:32
if
18:32
we
18:32
control
18:32
the
18:33
DEI
18:34
people,
18:34
then
18:35
our
18:35
lives
18:36
will
18:36
be
18:36
much
18:36
better.
18:37
That
18:37
scapegoating,
18:38
which
18:39
is
18:39
the
18:39
heart
18:39
of
18:39
what
18:40
Trump
18:40
is
18:40
doing,
18:41
it
18:41
works.
18:42
At
18:43
least
18:43
it
18:43
works
18:44
for
18:44
a
18:44
while,
18:45
until
18:45
it
18:45
finally
18:46
does.
18:46
Produce
18:46
what
18:47
people
18:47
are
18:47
hoping
18:47
for.
18:48
So
18:48
we're
18:48
in
18:48
a
18:48
world
18:49
where
18:49
in
18:50
fact
18:50
do
18:51
anything
18:51
is
18:52
very
18:52
difficult.
18:53
If
18:53
you
18:53
want
18:53
to
18:53
really
18:54
get
18:54
at
18:54
climate
18:55
change,
18:55
it
18:55
costs
18:56
money.
18:57
You
18:57
got
18:57
to
18:57
pay
18:57
for
18:58
the
18:58
transition.
18:59
You
18:59
want
18:59
people
19:00
to
19:00
get
19:00
rid
19:00
of
19:01
their
19:01
gas
19:01
stove,
19:02
they're
19:02
not
19:02
going
19:03
to
19:03
do
19:03
it
19:03
unless
19:03
you
19:03
give
19:03
them
19:04
some
19:04
money.
19:04
You
19:04
give
19:04
them
19:05
some
19:05
money,
19:05
you're
19:05
going
19:06
to
19:06
have
19:06
to
19:06
have
19:06
money.
19:07
So
19:07
that's
19:07
going
19:07
to
19:07
take
19:07
some
19:08
taxes
19:08
or
19:09
cutting
19:09
something
19:09
else.
19:10
So
19:10
we're
19:11
in
19:11
a
19:11
land
19:11
of
19:12
what
19:12
I
19:12
once
19:12
called
19:13
an
19:14
era
19:14
of
19:14
limits.
19:15
You
19:15
want
19:15
to
19:15
do
19:15
one
19:15
thing,
19:16
you
19:16
got
19:16
to
19:16
do
19:17
less
19:17
of
19:17
something
19:17
else.
19:18
And
19:18
we
19:19
need
19:19
more
19:20
resources.
19:21
On
19:21
the
19:21
problem
19:22
for
19:23
the
19:23
government,
19:23
that's
19:23
called
19:24
taxes
19:24
and
19:25
that
19:25
is
19:26
not
19:26
something
19:26
that
19:26
is
19:27
acceptable
19:27
because
19:28
people
19:28
don't
19:29
believe
19:29
in
19:29
the
19:29
government
19:30
leader,
19:30
politicians,
19:31
if
19:31
you
19:32
ask
19:32
what
19:32
you
19:32
think
19:32
of
19:32
the
19:32
leaders
19:33
of
19:33
California
19:33
or
19:34
Congress,
19:35
people
19:35
are
19:35
not
19:36
going
19:36
to
19:36
give
19:36
you
19:36
a
19:36
positive.
19:37
Well,
19:37
if
19:37
they
19:37
don't
19:37
have
19:37
a
19:38
positive
19:38
feeling,
19:38
why
19:39
would
19:39
they
19:39
entrust
19:40
their
19:40
hard
19:40
earned
19:41
money
19:41
to
19:42
you?
19:42
So
19:43
we're
19:43
in
19:43
a
19:43
real
19:43
dilemma
19:44
that
19:45
we
19:45
can't
19:46
convince
19:46
the
19:46
people
19:46
to
19:47
pay
19:47
for
19:47
what
19:47
they
19:47
need.
19:49
So
19:49
the
19:49
attractiveness
19:50
of
19:50
scapegoating
19:51
to
19:51
maintain
19:52
your
19:52
electoral
19:53
position,
19:54
winning
19:54
is
19:55
very,
19:55
very
19:55
attractive.
19:56
So
19:56
I
19:56
would,
19:56
I
19:57
would
19:57
identify
19:57
that
19:58
as
19:58
a
19:58
big
19:58
dilemma
19:59
right
19:59
now.
20:00
And
20:00
when
20:00
I
20:01
read
20:01
people
20:01
saying,
20:02
well,
20:02
what
20:02
are
20:02
the
20:02
issues?
20:03
The
20:03
issues
20:03
are
20:04
unaffordable
20:05
housing.
20:05
I
20:06
think
20:06
to
20:06
myself,
20:06
okay,
20:07
unaffordable
20:07
housing,
20:08
what
20:08
are
20:08
you
20:08
going
20:08
to
20:09
do?
20:09
You're
20:09
going
20:09
to
20:09
lower
20:10
the
20:11
price
20:11
of
20:11
houses?
20:12
Well,
20:12
that
20:12
would
20:12
lower
20:13
the
20:13
value
20:14
of
20:14
people's
20:15
number
20:15
one
20:15
asset.
20:16
You
20:17
can't
20:17
do
20:17
that.
20:17
Now,
20:18
recession,
20:19
big
20:19
recession
20:20
or
20:20
a
20:20
depression
20:20
would
20:21
do
20:21
that.
20:21
So
20:22
if
20:22
you
20:22
can't
20:23
lower
20:23
the
20:23
price
20:23
of
20:23
housing,
20:24
maybe
20:24
you
20:25
can
20:25
stabilize
20:25
it.
20:26
That's
20:27
the
20:27
hope.
20:27
But
20:27
then
20:28
they
20:28
say,
20:28
well,
20:29
let's
20:29
have
20:30
affordable
20:31
housing.
20:31
Well,
20:31
affordable
20:32
housing
20:32
is
20:33
unaffordable
20:33
housing,
20:34
like
20:34
all
20:34
housing
20:34
is
20:35
today,
20:35
but
20:35
with
20:36
a
20:36
government
20:36
subsidy
20:37
to
20:37
give
20:37
you
20:38
money
20:38
in
20:38
effect
20:39
to
20:39
buy
20:40
down
20:40
the
20:40
rent
20:41
or
20:41
the
20:41
price.
20:41
But
20:41
then
20:42
where
20:42
do
20:42
you
20:42
get
20:42
that
20:42
money
20:43
that
20:43
comes
20:43
out
20:44
of
20:44
the
20:44
tax
20:44
dollar?
20:45
And
20:45
so
20:45
we're
20:46
in
20:46
a
20:46
squeeze
20:47
of
20:48
things
20:48
we
20:49
want
20:49
to
20:49
do,
20:50
but
20:50
they
20:51
require
20:52
a
20:52
public
20:52
belief
20:53
and
20:53
commitment
20:54
in
20:54
order
20:55
to
20:55
pay
20:55
for
20:55
the
20:56
what
20:56
is
20:56
needed.
20:56
And
20:57
that
20:57
public
20:57
belief
20:58
is
20:58
not
20:58
there.
20:59
And
20:59
because
21:00
of
21:00
the
21:01
tendency
21:01
to
21:01
scapegoating
21:02
and
21:02
blame
21:03
just
21:03
gets
21:03
harder,
21:04
we're
21:04
in
21:05
a
21:05
dilemma.
21:05
And
21:05
one
21:05
of
21:05
the
21:06
things
21:06
I
21:06
hope
21:07
is
21:07
that
21:07
Trump
21:08
is
21:08
such
21:09
a
21:09
reductio,
21:10
unabsurative,
21:11
he's
21:11
taking
21:12
positions
21:13
and
21:13
pushing
21:14
them
21:14
so
21:14
far,
21:15
like
21:15
on
21:15
his
21:15
tariffs
21:16
that
21:17
make
21:17
no
21:17
sense,
21:18
putting
21:18
a
21:18
big
21:18
tariff
21:19
on
21:19
India.
21:19
He
21:20
wants
21:20
India
21:20
to
21:20
be
21:21
a
21:21
bulwark
21:22
ally
21:22
of
21:23
America
21:23
in
21:24
the
21:24
contest
21:24
with
21:24
China,
21:25
and
21:25
yet
21:26
he's
21:26
slapping
21:26
them
21:27
the
21:27
face.
21:27
So
21:28
he's
21:28
doing
21:28
that
21:29
in
21:29
50
21:29
different
21:29
ways.
21:30
That
21:30
may
21:31
hopefully
21:32
come
21:32
to
21:32
Quantum
21:33
and
21:33
then
21:33
we
21:34
can
21:34
get
21:35
a
21:35
change
21:35
of
21:36
course.
21:36
Who's
21:36
the
21:37
change
21:37
to.
21:38
And
21:38
as
21:38
you
21:39
asked
21:39
about
21:39
values,
21:40
what.
21:40
What's
21:40
the
21:41
program?
21:41
How
21:41
are
21:41
you
21:42
going
21:42
to
21:42
do
21:42
this?
21:42
I
21:43
would
21:43
say
21:43
that
21:44
we're
21:44
in
21:44
a
21:44
real
21:45
pickle.
21:45
We're
21:46
in
21:46
a
21:46
real
21:46
dilemma
21:47
that
21:47
we've
21:47
seen
21:48
in
21:48
previous
21:49
periods
21:49
of
21:49
history
21:50
and
21:50
how
21:50
we
21:50
work
21:50
out
21:51
of
21:51
it,
21:51
I
21:51
don't
21:52
think.
21:52
I
21:53
mean,
21:53
it's
21:53
worth
21:53
talking
21:53
about,
21:53
but
21:54
I
21:54
think
21:54
it's.
21:54
It's
21:55
very
21:55
challenging.
21:56
And
21:56
then
21:56
on
21:56
top
21:56
of
21:56
all
21:57
that,
21:57
we
21:57
have
21:57
a
21:57
doomsday
21:58
clock,
21:59
which
21:59
is
21:59
ticking
22:00
ever
22:00
closer
22:00
to
22:01
doomsday,
22:01
telling
22:02
us
22:02
that
22:02
the
22:03
danger
22:03
is
22:03
not
22:04
being
22:04
reduced,
22:05
but
22:05
the
22:05
danger
22:06
is
22:06
growing.
22:07
So
22:07
there
22:07
we
22:07
are.
22:08
It's
22:08
a
22:08
very
22:08
exciting
22:08
time.
22:10
Yeah.
22:11
Well,
22:11
that's
22:11
a.
22:11
It's
22:12
a
22:12
great
22:12
summary,
22:12
Jerry,
22:13
or
22:13
a
22:13
great
22:13
overview.
22:14
And
22:14
I
22:14
really
22:15
appreciate
22:15
the
22:15
fact
22:15
that
22:16
you're
22:16
pointing
22:16
to.
22:17
Pointing
22:18
to
22:18
the
22:18
fact
22:18
that
22:18
the
22:19
issues
22:20
are
22:20
so
22:20
complex
22:21
and
22:21
so
22:21
interconnected
22:22
and
22:22
that
22:23
at
22:23
depth,
22:24
they
22:24
are
22:25
fundamentally
22:25
questions
22:26
of
22:26
values
22:27
or
22:27
meaning
22:28
and
22:29
trust
22:30
and
22:31
a
22:31
variety
22:31
of
22:32
psychological
22:32
issues
22:33
in
22:33
many
22:33
ways
22:34
that
22:35
aren't
22:35
usually
22:35
spoken
22:36
of.
22:36
And
22:38
in
22:38
the
22:38
face
22:38
of
22:38
the
22:39
enormous
22:39
complexity
22:40
and
22:41
multifactorial
22:42
nature
22:42
of
22:43
the
22:43
threats
22:44
we're
22:44
facing,
22:45
the
22:46
simplistic
22:46
answer
22:47
is
22:48
to
22:48
look
22:48
for
22:49
a
22:49
very
22:50
concrete
22:51
us
22:51
versus
22:51
them
22:52
scapegoating
22:54
approach,
22:54
which
22:55
is
22:55
what
22:55
we're
22:55
seeing
22:56
now.
22:56
And
22:57
yet,
22:57
as
22:57
you
22:57
point
22:57
out,
22:58
it's
22:58
certainly
22:59
not
22:59
going
22:59
to
22:59
solve
22:59
the
23:00
problems,
23:00
in
23:00
some
23:01
ways
23:01
going
23:01
to
23:01
make
23:01
them
23:02
worse.
23:03
So,
23:03
anyway,
23:03
thank
23:04
you
23:04
for
23:04
bringing
23:04
in
23:05
that
23:05
the
23:06
pointing
23:07
to
23:07
the
23:07
complexity
23:08
and
23:09
what
23:09
I
23:09
sometimes
23:10
speak
23:10
of,
23:10
what
23:11
I
23:11
think
23:11
of.
23:12
I
23:12
think
23:12
there
23:12
are
23:12
a
23:12
number
23:12
of
23:13
fallacies,
23:13
or
23:13
isn't
23:14
even
23:14
easy
23:15
to
23:15
fall
23:15
into
23:15
them,
23:15
like
23:16
single
23:16
focus
23:16
fallacies.
23:18
One
23:18
is
23:18
that
23:19
there's
23:19
a
23:19
single
23:20
issue
23:20
fallacy,
23:21
thinking
23:21
there's
23:21
just
23:21
one
23:22
issue.
23:22
Second
23:23
is
23:24
single
23:24
response
23:25
fallacy,
23:26
which
23:26
is
23:27
there's
23:27
just
23:27
one
23:27
particular
23:28
kind
23:28
of
23:29
response
23:29
that's,
23:30
that's
23:30
appropriate.
23:31
And
23:33
clearly
23:34
we
23:34
need
23:34
much
23:35
richer
23:35
understandings.
23:37
There's
23:38
a
23:38
lot
23:38
of
23:38
ways
23:38
we
23:38
could
23:38
go
23:39
here.
23:39
Something
23:39
you
23:39
would
23:40
like
23:40
to
23:40
respond
23:40
to
23:41
there.
23:41
Before
23:42
we
23:42
get
23:42
into
23:43
one
23:43
of
23:43
the
23:43
points
23:43
you
23:44
raised
23:44
about
23:44
the
23:44
doomsday
23:45
clock
23:45
and
23:45
the
23:45
nuclear
23:46
issue,
23:47
I'm
23:48
not
23:48
sure.
23:48
What
23:48
did
23:48
you
23:49
want
23:49
to.
23:49
Well,
23:49
I
23:49
just
23:50
laid.
23:50
I
23:50
just
23:51
kind
23:51
of
23:51
riffed
23:51
in
23:52
response
23:52
to
23:52
your.
23:53
In
23:53
an
23:53
acknowledgment
23:55
appreciation
23:55
of
23:56
your
23:56
bringing
23:57
to
23:57
the
23:57
foreground
23:58
the
23:58
complexity
23:58
of
23:59
Multiple
23:59
factors
24:00
and
24:01
involved
24:02
in
24:02
our
24:02
current
24:03
political,
24:03
social,
24:04
global
24:04
situation.
24:05
It's
24:05
what
24:05
technically
24:06
it's
24:06
called
24:06
a
24:06
wicked
24:07
problem.
24:08
A
24:08
problem
24:08
which
24:08
is
24:09
so
24:09
interconnected
24:10
and
24:10
so
24:10
complex,
24:11
you
24:11
try
24:11
to
24:12
try
24:12
to
24:12
solve
24:13
one
24:13
thing,
24:13
in
24:13
some
24:14
ways,
24:14
it
24:14
can
24:14
often
24:14
make
24:15
other
24:15
things
24:15
worse.
24:17
So
24:17
we
24:17
really
24:18
are
24:18
facing
24:18
a
24:19
wicked
24:19
problem
24:19
with
24:20
our
24:20
social.
24:21
It's
24:21
nothing
24:21
new.
24:22
People
24:23
throughout
24:23
human
24:24
history
24:24
have
24:25
faced
24:25
problems.
24:26
They're
24:26
different.
24:27
You
24:27
know,
24:27
the
24:27
tribes
24:28
have
24:28
been
24:29
warring
24:29
with
24:29
other
24:30
tribes.
24:31
Monsoons
24:31
and
24:32
catastrophes
24:33
and
24:33
tsunamis
24:34
and
24:34
earthquakes
24:35
and
24:36
war.
24:37
That's
24:37
the
24:37
history
24:37
of
24:38
humanity.
24:39
So
24:40
we,
24:40
we're
24:41
the
24:41
only
24:42
different
24:42
now
24:42
is,
24:43
well,
24:43
we
24:44
got
24:44
8
24:44
billion
24:44
people.
24:45
That's
24:45
a
24:45
big,
24:46
big
24:46
difference.
24:47
Number
24:47
two,
24:48
we
24:48
have
24:48
a
24:48
lot
24:48
of
24:49
technology
24:49
that
24:50
we
24:50
never
24:50
have
24:50
before.
24:51
So
24:51
we
24:51
have
24:51
a
24:52
power.
24:52
We
24:53
have
24:53
powers,
24:53
right?
24:54
And
24:54
when
24:54
I
24:54
say
24:55
we,
24:55
certain
24:56
people,
24:56
certain,
24:57
you
24:57
know,
24:58
Palantir
24:59
or
24:59
Google
25:00
or
25:01
the
25:01
Defense
25:02
Department
25:03
food.
25:04
There's
25:04
power
25:05
that
25:05
resides
25:06
in
25:06
certain
25:07
places
25:07
and
25:07
in
25:08
certain
25:08
individuals.
25:09
And
25:09
that
25:09
power
25:10
can
25:10
make
25:11
things
25:11
happen,
25:11
they
25:11
can
25:12
destroy
25:13
things.
25:14
So.
25:14
But
25:14
I
25:14
don't
25:15
think
25:15
that's
25:15
anything
25:15
unusual.
25:16
We
25:17
personally,
25:18
we
25:18
have
25:18
our
25:18
own
25:19
dilemmas,
25:20
our
25:20
own
25:21
life.
25:21
We
25:21
can
25:22
get
25:22
hit
25:22
by
25:23
a
25:23
car,
25:23
get
25:24
cancer,
25:24
get
25:25
a
25:25
heart
25:25
attack.
25:26
So
25:26
life
25:26
is
25:27
on
25:27
the
25:27
edge.
25:27
We
25:28
don't
25:28
always
25:28
know
25:28
we're
25:29
on
25:29
the
25:29
edge,
25:29
but
25:30
we
25:30
are
25:30
at
25:30
any
25:31
moment.
25:31
So
25:31
society's
25:32
on
25:32
the
25:32
edge
25:33
and
25:34
we
25:34
can't
25:34
become
25:35
paralyzed
25:36
because
25:36
life
25:37
is
25:37
what
25:37
it
25:37
is.
25:37
We've
25:38
had,
25:38
I
25:38
think,
25:39
a
25:39
rather
25:40
protected
25:41
world
25:41
in
25:41
America,
25:42
separated
25:42
by
25:42
the
25:42
oceans.
25:43
Certainly
25:44
growing
25:44
up
25:45
I
25:45
was
25:46
very
25:46
calm
25:47
and
25:48
very
25:48
secure.
25:48
And
25:49
I
25:49
think
25:49
to
25:49
myself
25:50
when
25:50
I
25:50
read
25:51
about
25:51
World
25:51
War
25:52
II
25:52
and
25:53
what
25:53
was
25:53
going
25:53
on
25:54
in
25:54
Poland,
25:55
Eastern
25:56
Europe
25:56
and,
25:57
and
25:57
Russia
25:57
in
25:57
1943
25:59
when
25:59
I
25:59
first
26:00
went
26:00
to
26:00
kindergarten.
26:01
I
26:01
think
26:01
of
26:02
my
26:02
birthday
26:03
party
26:03
when
26:03
I
26:04
was
26:04
4
26:05
years
26:05
old,
26:05
which
26:05
I
26:05
can
26:05
remember,
26:06
and
26:06
5
26:07
years
26:07
old.
26:07
This
26:08
is,
26:08
this
26:08
is
26:09
1944,
26:10
43.
26:11
What
26:11
the
26:12
horrors
26:12
that
26:12
were
26:12
going
26:13
on.
26:13
So
26:14
that's
26:14
the
26:14
way
26:14
it
26:15
is
26:16
now.
26:16
Some
26:17
of
26:17
those
26:17
horrors
26:18
are
26:18
coming
26:18
home.
26:19
And
26:19
that's
26:19
what
26:19
the
26:19
Doomsday
26:20
Clock
26:20
is
26:20
all
26:20
about
26:21
in
26:22
nuclear,
26:23
bio
26:24
climate
26:25
and
26:25
also
26:26
disruptive
26:27
technologies
26:27
like
26:27
AI,
26:28
the
26:29
satellites,
26:30
the
26:31
pattern
26:31
of
26:31
satellites,
26:32
what
26:32
that
26:32
all
26:32
can
26:33
be
26:33
used
26:33
for
26:34
and
26:34
weaponry.
26:35
So
26:36
with
26:36
all
26:36
this
26:36
power,
26:37
there's
26:37
two
26:38
big
26:38
things
26:38
we
26:38
need
26:39
which
26:39
we
26:39
don't
26:40
have
26:40
anywhere
26:40
near
26:40
enough
26:41
of.
26:41
And
26:41
one
26:42
of
26:42
them
26:42
is
26:43
a
26:43
sense
26:43
of
26:44
wanting
26:45
to
26:45
work
26:45
together,
26:46
a
26:46
shared
26:47
sense
26:48
of
26:48
common
26:49
danger,
26:50
common
26:51
fate,
26:52
which
26:52
we
26:52
don't
26:52
have.
26:53
And
26:53
if
26:53
you
26:53
think
26:53
of
26:54
Xi
26:54
Jinping
26:55
and
26:55
Biden
26:56
or
26:56
Trump
26:57
or
26:57
Putin,
26:58
they
26:58
talk,
26:59
you
26:59
know,
26:59
like
27:00
one
27:00
could
27:00
win
27:01
and
27:01
maybe
27:02
one
27:02
might
27:03
under
27:03
certain
27:03
circumstances,
27:04
but
27:04
there's
27:05
A
27:05
great
27:05
danger
27:05
that
27:06
we
27:06
all
27:06
lose
27:07
if
27:07
we
27:07
don't
27:07
control
27:08
climate,
27:08
if
27:09
we
27:09
don't
27:10
find
27:10
ways
27:10
to
27:11
minimize
27:11
pandemics,
27:12
if
27:13
we
27:13
don't
27:14
find
27:14
a
27:14
way
27:14
to
27:15
reduce
27:15
some
27:16
of
27:16
the
27:16
inequalities
27:17
that
27:17
will
27:17
foster
27:18
terrorism.
27:19
And
27:19
terrorism
27:20
plus
27:21
artificial
27:21
intelligence
27:22
linked
27:23
to
27:23
genetic
27:24
engineering
27:25
could
27:26
result
27:26
in
27:26
man
27:27
made
27:28
pandemics
27:28
of
27:29
a
27:29
horrible
27:29
character.
27:30
And
27:30
that's
27:31
why
27:31
the
27:32
bullet
27:32
of
27:32
atomic
27:32
scientists
27:33
puts
27:33
out
27:34
this
27:34
doomsday
27:34
clock.
27:35
And
27:35
I
27:36
participate
27:36
in
27:37
the
27:37
hearings,
27:37
they
27:37
decide,
27:38
they
27:38
go
27:38
over
27:39
a
27:39
couple
27:39
of
27:39
days
27:39
each
27:40
year.
27:40
And
27:41
so
27:41
we
27:41
have
27:41
these
27:42
big
27:42
issues
27:43
and
27:44
what
27:44
they
27:44
all
27:44
come
27:44
down
27:45
to
27:45
is
27:46
we
27:46
have
27:46
this
27:46
incredible
27:47
power
27:48
that
27:48
can
27:48
destroy
27:49
all
27:49
of
27:49
us.
27:50
So
27:50
we
27:50
have
27:50
a
27:50
mutual,
27:51
a
27:51
common
27:51
vulnerability.
27:53
But
27:53
we
27:53
don't
27:53
have
27:53
a
27:53
common
27:54
politics.
27:55
What
27:55
we
27:56
don't
27:56
have
27:56
and
27:57
what
27:57
we
27:57
need
27:57
is
27:58
what
27:58
I
27:58
would
27:58
call
27:58
planetary
27:59
realism.
28:01
The
28:01
realism
28:01
of
28:02
traditional
28:03
realism
28:03
is
28:04
hard
28:04
boiled,
28:05
real
28:05
politik.
28:06
I've
28:06
got
28:07
the
28:07
power,
28:07
you
28:07
got
28:07
to
28:07
do
28:07
what
28:08
I
28:08
want.
28:08
Okay,
28:09
that's
28:09
traditional
28:10
realism.
28:10
Romanticism
28:11
is,
28:12
oh,
28:12
we're
28:13
all
28:13
going
28:13
to
28:13
make
28:13
the
28:13
world
28:14
wonderful
28:14
and
28:14
pretty.
28:15
The
28:15
truth
28:16
of
28:16
the
28:16
matter
28:16
is
28:17
we're
28:17
on
28:18
the
28:18
brink.
28:19
We're
28:19
on
28:19
the
28:19
brink.
28:20
Bill
28:20
Perry,
28:21
former
28:22
Secretary
28:22
of
28:22
Defense
28:23
who's
28:23
still
28:24
alive
28:24
at
28:24
the
28:24
age
28:24
of
28:25
90,
28:26
almost
28:26
97,
28:27
he
28:28
wrote
28:28
a
28:28
book
28:28
called
28:28
My
28:29
Journey
28:29
at
28:30
the
28:30
Nuclear
28:30
Brink
28:31
in
28:31
the
28:31
Present
28:32
Tense.
28:33
So
28:34
we're
28:34
at
28:34
this
28:35
brink
28:35
and
28:36
the
28:36
big
28:37
guys,
28:37
the
28:38
big
28:38
power,
28:38
people
28:39
should
28:40
collaborate
28:41
to
28:42
protect
28:42
themselves.
28:43
But
28:43
the
28:44
old
28:44
historic
28:46
egotism,
28:47
nationalism,
28:48
this
28:48
power
28:49
of
28:49
believing
28:49
in
28:49
the
28:50
state
28:50
that
28:51
gets
28:51
people
28:51
to
28:51
go
28:51
to
28:51
war,
28:52
that's
28:53
so
28:53
powerful.
28:53
And
28:54
what
28:54
is
28:54
needed
28:55
is
28:55
this
28:55
bigger
28:56
picture
28:56
of
28:57
common
28:57
endeavor,
28:58
of
28:58
shared
28:59
vulnerability.
29:00
So
29:00
it
29:01
gives
29:01
rise
29:01
to
29:02
shared
29:02
interests.
29:03
But
29:03
that,
29:04
that
29:04
is
29:05
still
29:05
very
29:05
obscure
29:07
now.
29:08
Can
29:08
Trump
29:09
figure
29:09
that
29:09
out?
29:09
Trump
29:10
seems
29:10
to
29:10
be,
29:11
I
29:11
mean,
29:11
he's
29:11
talking
29:12
to
29:12
Putin.
29:12
That's
29:13
more.
29:14
Biden
29:14
was
29:14
not
29:14
inclined
29:15
to
29:15
do
29:15
that.
29:15
But
29:16
where
29:16
is.
29:16
But
29:16
there's
29:17
seemingly
29:17
no
29:18
principle.
29:19
And
29:19
this
29:19
idea
29:20
of
29:20
transactionalism
29:22
or
29:22
Trump,
29:23
let's
29:23
make
29:23
a
29:23
deal.
29:24
The
29:24
mantra
29:25
of
29:25
Biden
29:26
and
29:27
few
29:27
people
29:27
before
29:27
him
29:28
was
29:28
we
29:28
need
29:29
rules,
29:30
we
29:30
need
29:30
norms
29:31
that
29:31
we
29:31
all
29:31
agree
29:31
on.
29:32
We
29:32
need
29:32
the
29:32
World
29:33
Trade
29:33
Organization,
29:34
wto,
29:35
we
29:35
need
29:36
nuclear
29:36
arms
29:36
agreements,
29:37
we
29:37
need
29:37
trade
29:38
agreements
29:38
that
29:39
we
29:39
all
29:39
agree
29:39
to.
29:39
There
29:40
was
29:40
rules
29:41
that
29:41
we
29:41
all
29:41
governed
29:42
by.
29:42
Now
29:43
the
29:43
dominant
29:44
political
29:45
thought
29:46
rhetoric
29:47
is,
29:47
no,
29:48
it's
29:48
my
29:48
country
29:49
and
29:49
you
29:49
got
29:49
to
29:50
be
29:50
strong,
29:50
you
29:50
push
29:51
the
29:51
other
29:51
guys
29:51
aside.
29:52
That's
29:52
kind
29:52
of
29:52
a
29:53
19th
29:53
century
29:54
view
29:55
of
29:55
colliding
29:56
powers.
29:56
And
29:57
what
29:57
is
29:57
needed,
29:58
given
29:58
the
29:59
planetary
30:00
threats
30:00
I've
30:01
just
30:01
mentioned,
30:01
is
30:02
a
30:02
common
30:02
endeavor
30:03
to
30:03
deal
30:03
with
30:04
climate,
30:04
to
30:04
deal
30:04
with
30:05
pandemic,
30:06
to
30:06
reduce
30:06
Nuclear
30:07
danger
30:07
dramatically
30:08
reduce
30:08
it.
30:09
So
30:09
those
30:09
are
30:09
big
30:10
problems.
30:10
But
30:11
in
30:11
America,
30:12
deportation
30:13
and
30:13
immigrants
30:13
is
30:14
a
30:14
more
30:14
exciting
30:15
problem.
30:16
Homelessness
30:16
in
30:17
the
30:17
streets
30:17
is
30:17
a
30:17
big
30:18
problem,
30:18
but
30:19
it's
30:19
not
30:19
as
30:19
big
30:19
as
30:20
these
30:20
global
30:20
threats
30:21
that
30:21
our
30:22
leaders
30:22
ought
30:22
to
30:22
be
30:22
viewing.
30:23
So
30:23
I
30:23
just
30:24
say,
30:24
to
30:24
summarize
30:25
it
30:25
all,
30:25
there's
30:26
nothing
30:26
different
30:27
in
30:27
the
30:27
sense
30:27
that
30:27
we're
30:28
on
30:28
the
30:28
edge
30:28
of
30:29
dying
30:29
or
30:30
destruction.
30:31
That's
30:31
where
30:31
we
30:32
are.
30:32
By
30:33
the
30:33
way,
30:33
there
30:33
was
30:33
A
30:33
great
30:33
Baron
30:34
McGuire
30:34
tune,
30:35
1960,
30:36
on
30:36
the
30:37
eve
30:37
of
30:37
destruction.
30:38
Okay,
30:38
we've
30:39
been
30:39
on
30:39
the
30:39
eve
30:39
of
30:39
destruction
30:40
for
30:40
a
30:40
long
30:41
time.
30:41
But
30:41
the
30:42
challenge
30:42
is,
30:43
can
30:43
we
30:43
push
30:44
our
30:44
politics
30:45
in
30:45
a
30:45
way
30:45
that
30:46
will
30:46
allow
30:47
the
30:47
obvious,
30:48
the
30:48
common
30:49
threats,
30:49
to
30:50
be
30:50
responded
30:50
to
30:51
in
30:51
a
30:51
common
30:52
way?
30:52
Even
30:53
though
30:53
China
30:54
has
30:54
a
30:54
different
30:54
view
30:54
of
30:55
human
30:55
rights
30:56
than
30:56
the
30:56
United
30:57
States,
30:58
Putin
30:58
has
30:58
his
30:58
view
30:59
of
30:59
Ukraine.
31:00
We've
31:00
got
31:00
a
31:00
lot
31:01
of
31:01
profound
31:01
differences,
31:02
but
31:02
we
31:02
can
31:03
all
31:03
agree
31:04
we
31:04
don't
31:04
want
31:04
to
31:04
have
31:04
nuclear
31:05
bombs
31:05
flying
31:05
around.
31:06
We
31:06
don't
31:07
want
31:07
some
31:07
terrorist
31:07
group
31:08
to
31:08
engineer
31:09
some
31:09
kind
31:09
of
31:10
new
31:11
agent
31:11
that
31:11
could
31:12
spread
31:12
around
31:12
the
31:12
world,
31:13
kill
31:13
half
31:14
a
31:14
billion
31:14
people.
31:15
We
31:15
all
31:15
agree
31:15
we
31:16
don't
31:16
want
31:16
to
31:16
see
31:16
the
31:16
climate.
31:17
Well,
31:17
we
31:17
don't
31:17
all
31:17
agree
31:17
on
31:18
the
31:18
climate.
31:18
So
31:19
there
31:19
we
31:20
are.
31:20
These
31:20
are
31:20
the
31:21
big
31:21
issues.
31:22
But
31:22
when
31:22
you
31:22
come
31:22
right
31:23
down
31:23
to
31:23
it,
31:23
you
31:24
know,
31:24
walk
31:24
outside
31:24
your
31:25
door,
31:25
you
31:25
got
31:25
problems
31:26
right
31:26
here,
31:27
and
31:27
people
31:27
can't
31:27
afford
31:28
to
31:28
buy
31:28
a
31:28
house.
31:29
The
31:29
college
31:30
graduates
31:30
can't
31:31
find
31:31
a
31:31
job.
31:32
40%
31:33
of
31:33
the
31:33
people
31:33
live
31:33
hand
31:33
to
31:34
mouth,
31:34
paycheck
31:35
to
31:35
paycheck.
31:36
So
31:36
there's
31:36
a
31:37
variety
31:37
of
31:37
problems.
31:38
And
31:39
I'd
31:39
say
31:40
if
31:40
you're
31:41
thinking
31:41
about
31:41
transformation,
31:42
that's
31:43
a
31:43
good
31:43
thing.
31:43
And
31:44
I
31:44
think
31:44
you
31:44
got
31:44
to
31:44
work
31:45
on
31:45
that.
31:45
And
31:46
to
31:46
the
31:46
extent
31:46
we
31:46
can
31:47
figure
31:47
out
31:47
how
31:47
we
31:47
do
31:47
that
31:47
in
31:48
common
31:48
for
31:49
the
31:49
society,
31:49
for
31:50
our
31:50
community,
31:50
that's
31:51
very
31:51
important,
31:51
too.
31:52
And
31:52
it's
31:52
a
31:53
continuing
31:53
challenge.
31:54
Not
31:54
something
31:54
to
31:55
get.
31:55
Pick
31:55
up
31:55
a
31:56
formula
31:56
and
31:57
just
31:57
apply
31:57
it.
31:57
It's
31:58
something
31:58
we.
31:58
We
31:59
have
31:59
to,
31:59
as
31:59
we're
31:59
doing
31:59
on
32:00
this
32:00
show,
32:00
you
32:01
have
32:01
to
32:01
talk
32:01
about
32:01
it,
32:01
think
32:02
about
32:02
it,
32:02
and
32:02
the
32:03
answers
32:03
out
32:03
of
32:03
that
32:03
process
32:04
will
32:04
emerge.
32:05
Yeah,
32:06
Jerry,
32:06
I
32:06
feel
32:06
like
32:07
I've
32:07
been
32:07
sitting
32:07
at
32:07
the
32:08
feet
32:08
of
32:08
an
32:08
Old
32:08
Testament
32:09
prophet.
32:09
You
32:10
know,
32:10
you've
32:10
just
32:10
been
32:10
laying
32:11
it
32:11
out.
32:11
Hero
32:12
Israel,
32:13
this
32:13
is
32:13
it.
32:14
And
32:15
I
32:16
would
32:16
ask
32:16
you,
32:18
what
32:18
do
32:18
you
32:18
think
32:20
small
32:20
steps
32:21
that
32:21
we
32:22
can
32:22
take
32:22
to
32:22
nobleize
32:23
the
32:23
human
32:23
spirit
32:25
so
32:25
we
32:25
can
32:25
begin
32:26
to
32:26
see
32:27
our
32:27
commonality,
32:27
maybe
32:28
just
32:28
starting
32:28
with
32:28
our
32:29
country
32:30
and
32:30
stop
32:30
tearing
32:31
each
32:31
other
32:31
apart
32:32
and
32:32
come
32:32
back
32:33
together
32:33
again
32:33
and
32:34
start
32:34
moving
32:34
that
32:35
direction
32:35
where
32:36
all
32:36
of
32:37
these
32:37
issues
32:38
come
32:38
from,
32:38
ourselves,
32:40
in
32:40
our
32:40
own
32:40
spiritual
32:41
crises.
32:42
Or
32:42
lack
32:42
of
32:43
spirituality
32:44
or
32:44
commonality.
32:45
How
32:45
do
32:45
we
32:45
begin
32:46
to
32:47
see
32:47
our
32:47
way
32:47
through
32:48
this
32:48
darkness
32:48
into
32:49
a
32:49
direction
32:50
of
32:50
hope?
32:51
All
32:51
right,
32:51
well,
32:52
here
32:52
I
32:52
have
32:53
a
32:53
certain
32:53
disjointing
32:55
sense
32:55
here,
32:55
because
32:56
I've
32:56
done
32:57
Zen
32:57
meditation,
32:58
I've
32:58
been
32:58
a
32:59
Jesuit,
33:00
I
33:00
followed
33:01
personal
33:02
paths
33:02
of
33:03
transformation
33:04
or
33:05
serious
33:06
quest
33:07
for
33:07
a
33:07
higher
33:08
kind
33:08
of
33:08
life.
33:08
But
33:09
on
33:09
the
33:09
other
33:09
hand,
33:09
I've
33:09
been
33:10
a
33:10
politician.
33:10
And
33:11
politicians
33:12
are
33:12
aiming
33:12
at
33:12
winning
33:13
the
33:13
next
33:13
election.
33:14
And
33:14
we
33:14
got
33:14
this
33:15
guy
33:15
Trump,
33:16
and
33:17
people
33:17
who
33:17
think
33:18
like
33:18
I
33:18
do,
33:18
like
33:19
that,
33:19
get
33:19
him
33:19
out
33:19
of
33:19
there.
33:20
Get
33:20
him
33:20
out
33:20
of
33:20
there.
33:21
It
33:21
takes
33:21
a
33:21
ballot,
33:22
takes.
33:23
You
33:23
gotta
33:23
win
33:23
some
33:23
elections.
33:24
Right
33:24
now,
33:24
the
33:24
Republicans
33:25
are
33:25
trying
33:26
to
33:26
change
33:26
the
33:27
congressional
33:28
lines
33:28
in
33:28
Texas.
33:29
You
33:29
get
33:29
another
33:29
five
33:30
delegates,
33:31
five
33:31
congressmen.
33:32
They're
33:32
going
33:32
to
33:32
try
33:32
that.
33:33
So
33:33
the
33:33
Republicans
33:34
are
33:34
trying
33:35
very
33:35
hard
33:35
to
33:36
make
33:36
sure
33:37
that
33:37
there'll
33:37
be
33:37
a
33:37
Trump
33:38
majority
33:39
next
33:39
year,
33:40
the
33:40
November
33:41
election.
33:41
So
33:42
people
33:42
don't
33:43
like
33:43
that,
33:44
are
33:44
trying
33:44
to
33:45
stop.
33:45
And
33:45
you
33:46
stop
33:46
it
33:46
with
33:46
candidates
33:47
or
33:49
advertising,
33:50
with
33:50
organizing,
33:51
with
33:52
raising
33:52
money,
33:53
and
33:53
you
33:53
raise
33:54
money
33:54
from
33:54
people
33:54
who
33:54
have
33:55
money.
33:55
So
33:55
you're
33:56
talking
33:56
about
33:56
vested
33:57
interests,
33:57
you're
33:58
talking
33:58
about
33:58
rich
33:58
people,
33:59
you're
33:59
talking
33:59
about
34:00
industry,
34:01
banking,
34:01
insurance,
34:03
maybe
34:03
oil,
34:04
talking
34:04
about
34:04
labor
34:05
unions,
34:06
teachers,
34:07
and
34:07
you've
34:07
got
34:07
to
34:07
get
34:07
all
34:08
that
34:08
money.
34:08
So
34:09
that's
34:09
the
34:09
world
34:09
we
34:09
live
34:10
in.
34:10
Now,
34:10
as
34:10
an
34:11
individual,
34:12
you
34:12
can
34:13
pursue
34:13
your
34:14
particular
34:15
path.
34:16
That's.
34:16
And
34:16
we
34:16
should,
34:17
because
34:17
we're
34:17
all
34:17
alive
34:18
and
34:18
we're
34:18
going
34:18
to
34:18
have
34:18
a
34:18
certain
34:19
amount
34:19
of
34:19
time
34:19
and
34:19
that's
34:19
it.
34:20
So
34:20
we
34:20
want
34:20
to
34:21
maximize
34:21
that.
34:22
In
34:22
terms
34:22
of
34:22
the.
34:23
The
34:23
general
34:23
politics.
34:24
I.
34:24
This
34:25
is
34:25
my
34:25
business.
34:25
And
34:26
I
34:26
can
34:26
tell
34:26
you
34:26
it's.
34:27
It's
34:27
not
34:27
what
34:28
I'd
34:28
call
34:28
a
34:28
nice
34:29
business.
34:29
It's
34:29
not
34:29
what
34:30
you
34:30
want
34:30
to
34:30
discuss
34:31
on
34:31
this
34:31
program,
34:32
but
34:33
that's
34:33
what
34:33
it
34:34
is.
34:34
It's
34:34
like
34:35
war.
34:35
War
34:35
is
34:36
not
34:36
nice.
34:36
If
34:36
you
34:36
look
34:37
what's
34:37
going
34:37
on
34:37
in
34:37
Ukraine,
34:38
if
34:38
you
34:38
look
34:38
at
34:38
what
34:39
we
34:39
did
34:39
In
34:40
World
34:40
War
34:40
II,
34:41
World
34:41
War
34:41
I,
34:42
there
34:42
it
34:42
is.
34:43
So
34:43
you
34:43
have
34:43
this
34:44
problem
34:44
of
34:44
evil,
34:45
and
34:45
then
34:45
you
34:45
have
34:45
the
34:46
problem
34:46
of
34:46
good.
34:47
And
34:47
I
34:48
remember
34:48
the
34:48
movie
34:49
on
34:49
Mother
34:49
Teresa.
34:50
You
34:51
saw
34:51
these
34:51
starving
34:52
or
34:53
vacant
34:54
mission
34:54
people
34:55
looking
34:55
out
34:56
a
34:56
barbed
34:56
wire
34:57
fence,
34:57
obviously
34:58
some
34:58
people
34:59
from
34:59
World
34:59
War
35:00
II,
35:00
and
35:00
then
35:00
Mother.
35:01
Mother
35:01
Teresa.
35:02
But
35:02
there's
35:02
a
35:02
light
35:02
in
35:03
the
35:03
world,
35:03
and
35:04
she
35:04
was
35:04
a
35:05
light.
35:05
And
35:06
she
35:06
always
35:07
said,
35:07
just
35:08
find
35:08
the
35:08
first
35:08
person
35:09
and
35:09
help
35:09
that
35:10
person
35:10
lift
35:11
that
35:11
poor
35:11
person
35:11
out
35:12
of
35:12
the
35:12
streets.
35:13
So
35:13
I
35:13
think
35:14
you
35:14
have
35:14
to
35:14
take
35:14
the
35:14
immediate
35:15
and
35:16
where
35:16
you
35:16
can
35:16
be
35:17
helpful
35:18
and
35:18
human
35:19
and
35:19
responsive,
35:20
you
35:20
do
35:20
that.
35:21
And
35:21
where
35:22
political
35:22
opportunities
35:23
come,
35:24
you
35:24
got
35:24
to
35:24
be
35:24
part
35:25
of
35:25
it.
35:25
But
35:26
knowing
35:26
what
35:26
I
35:26
know,
35:27
I
35:27
Mean,
35:28
you
35:28
know,
35:28
run
35:29
for
35:29
government
35:29
four
35:30
times,
35:30
up
35:30
for
35:31
president
35:31
three
35:31
times.
35:32
I
35:32
can
35:32
tell
35:32
you
35:33
as
35:33
an
35:33
individual,
35:34
you're
35:34
sitting
35:34
there
35:35
in
35:35
a
35:35
big
35:36
stadium
35:36
watching
35:37
what's
35:38
going
35:38
on
35:38
in
35:38
the
35:38
field,
35:39
but
35:39
you
35:39
are
35:40
in
35:40
the
35:40
stands
35:41
for
35:41
the
35:41
most
35:42
part.
35:42
Now
35:43
there
35:43
may
35:43
become
35:43
opportunities
35:44
where
35:44
you
35:44
can
35:44
add
35:45
your
35:45
voice,
35:46
your
35:46
pocketbook,
35:47
your
35:48
vote.
35:48
So
35:49
do
35:49
it.
35:49
But
35:50
we
35:50
are
35:51
very
35:51
dependent
35:52
on
35:52
powers
35:52
and
35:53
forces.
35:53
A,
35:54
we
35:54
don't
35:54
control
35:55
and
35:55
B,
35:56
we
35:56
don't
35:56
understand.
35:58
So
35:58
that
35:58
makes
35:58
life
35:58
very,
35:59
very
35:59
exciting.
36:00
Gets
36:01
you
36:01
up
36:01
in
36:01
the
36:01
morning
36:01
because
36:02
it's
36:02
not
36:02
clear,
36:03
not
36:03
clear
36:03
what's
36:04
going
36:04
on.
36:04
I
36:05
don't
36:05
know
36:05
whether
36:05
that
36:05
inspires
36:06
you
36:06
or
36:07
depresses
36:07
you,
36:08
but
36:08
that's
36:08
the,
36:09
that's
36:09
just
36:10
the
36:10
way
36:10
it
36:10
is.
36:11
Well,
36:12
it's
36:12
not
36:12
just
36:12
an
36:13
intellectual
36:14
journey,
36:14
which
36:14
it
36:15
has
36:15
been.
36:15
It's
36:15
also
36:15
very
36:16
emotionally
36:17
impactful
36:18
what
36:18
you've
36:18
been
36:18
saying.
36:18
And
36:19
it's
36:19
like,
36:20
okay,
36:22
well
36:22
said.
36:23
Well,
36:23
it's
36:23
good
36:23
to
36:24
have
36:24
a,
36:25
you
36:25
know,
36:25
an
36:25
upbringing.
36:26
I
36:26
feel
36:27
very
36:27
rooted
36:28
in
36:29
the
36:29
land
36:29
where
36:29
my
36:30
grandmother
36:30
grew
36:30
up.
36:30
It
36:31
was
36:31
a
36:31
stagecoach.
36:32
She
36:32
was
36:32
born
36:32
in
36:33
1878,
36:34
she
36:34
died
36:34
in
36:34
1974.
36:36
And
36:36
so
36:37
I,
36:37
I
36:37
knew
36:37
her
36:38
for
36:38
36
36:39
years
36:39
of
36:39
my
36:39
life
36:40
and
36:40
quite
36:41
a
36:41
transition.
36:42
But
36:42
when
36:42
you've
36:42
been
36:43
on
36:43
the
36:43
same
36:43
dirt,
36:44
I
36:44
walked
36:45
those
36:45
that
36:45
land
36:46
and
36:46
could
36:46
look
36:46
up
36:46
at
36:47
the
36:47
night,
36:47
at
36:47
the
36:48
moon
36:48
and
36:48
stars
36:49
and
36:49
look
36:49
at
36:49
the
36:50
blue
36:50
oak
36:50
trees.
36:51
I
36:51
feel
36:51
the
36:51
world
36:52
is
36:52
in
36:52
order.
36:53
There's
36:53
a
36:53
stability,
36:54
even
36:55
though
36:55
it's.
36:55
I'm
36:55
just
36:56
describing,
36:56
it's
36:56
chaos.
36:57
So
36:58
there's
36:59
many
36:59
ways
36:59
of
36:59
looking
37:00
at
37:00
things,
37:01
but
37:01
it's
37:02
hard.
37:02
I
37:02
mean,
37:02
you
37:02
can't
37:03
to
37:03
look
37:03
at
37:04
like
37:04
the
37:04
Doomsday
37:04
Clock.
37:05
Most
37:05
people
37:05
don't
37:05
want
37:05
to
37:06
pay
37:06
attention
37:06
to
37:06
it.
37:07
And
37:07
even
37:07
the
37:07
people
37:07
who
37:08
put
37:08
out
37:08
the
37:08
Doomsday
37:09
Clock,
37:09
do
37:09
we
37:10
really
37:11
feel.
37:11
It's
37:12
89
37:12
seconds,
37:13
the
37:13
doomsday.
37:14
What
37:14
the
37:14
hell
37:15
does
37:15
that
37:15
mean?
37:15
It
37:16
used
37:16
to
37:16
be
37:16
as
37:16
far
37:17
back
37:17
as
37:17
17
37:18
minutes.
37:18
And
37:19
we
37:19
thought
37:20
when
37:20
the
37:20
Iron
37:20
Curtain
37:21
came
37:21
down
37:21
and
37:22
everything
37:22
seemed
37:22
to
37:23
be
37:23
getting
37:23
better.
37:24
Well,
37:24
everything
37:25
seems
37:25
to
37:25
get
37:25
worse.
37:26
So
37:26
that's
37:27
the
37:27
truth.
37:27
But
37:28
you
37:28
can't
37:28
get
37:28
paralyzed
37:29
by
37:29
the
37:29
truth.
37:29
You
37:30
have
37:30
to
37:30
think
37:30
deeper
37:31
about
37:31
what.
37:32
What
37:32
is
37:32
going
37:33
on,
37:33
what
37:33
are
37:33
the
37:33
implications
37:34
and
37:34
what
37:34
I
37:35
can
37:35
do,
37:35
and
37:36
that's
37:36
all
37:36
I
37:37
can
37:37
say
37:37
is
37:38
the
37:38
quest,
37:39
the
37:39
inquiry,
37:40
the
37:40
ever
37:40
openness
37:41
of
37:42
to
37:42
what
37:42
is.
37:43
Try
37:43
to
37:43
find
37:44
and
37:44
not
37:44
to
37:45
try,
37:45
but
37:45
to
37:45
act
37:46
out
37:46
of
37:46
the
37:47
best
37:47
sense
37:48
that
37:48
you
37:48
can
37:49
muster
37:49
in
37:49
yourself
37:50
and
37:50
to
37:50
help
37:51
others
37:51
and
37:51
to
37:51
inspire
37:52
and
37:53
be
37:53
a.
37:53
Be
37:54
a
37:54
force
37:55
for
37:55
inspiring
37:56
others.
37:56
Very
37:57
important.
37:57
We
37:57
need,
37:58
we
37:58
need
37:58
mutual
37:59
help
37:59
and
37:59
inspiration
38:00
because
38:01
we're
38:01
on
38:01
we're
38:02
on
38:02
a
38:02
break.
38:02
And
38:03
even
38:03
to
38:03
use
38:03
the
38:03
word,
38:04
Bill
38:04
Perry
38:05
did
38:05
that
38:05
book,
38:06
by
38:06
the
38:06
way.
38:06
I
38:06
think
38:06
it's
38:07
very
38:07
emblematic.
38:08
The
38:09
New
38:09
York
38:09
Times
38:09
didn't
38:10
review
38:10
it.
38:10
And
38:11
I
38:11
called
38:11
up
38:11
the
38:11
New
38:11
York
38:11
Times
38:12
and,
38:12
hey,
38:12
you
38:12
have
38:12
to
38:13
review
38:13
this
38:13
book.
38:14
It's
38:14
very
38:14
important.
38:15
This
38:15
guy's.
38:16
Bill
38:16
Perry
38:17
knows
38:17
what
38:17
he's
38:17
talking
38:18
about.
38:18
They
38:19
said,
38:19
well,
38:20
it's
38:20
already
38:20
out.
38:21
We
38:21
don't
38:21
publish
38:22
reviews
38:23
after
38:23
the
38:24
book
38:24
is
38:24
already
38:25
on
38:25
the
38:25
book
38:26
stands.
38:26
I
38:27
said,
38:27
well,
38:27
wait
38:27
a
38:27
minute.
38:27
This
38:28
is
38:28
really
38:28
important.
38:28
Well,
38:29
not
38:29
too
38:29
bad.
38:30
So
38:30
as
38:30
it
38:30
turned
38:31
out,
38:31
I
38:31
called
38:31
the
38:31
New
38:32
York
38:32
Review
38:32
of
38:32
Books
38:33
and
38:34
I
38:34
said,
38:34
you
38:34
guys
38:35
ought
38:35
to
38:35
review
38:36
it.
38:36
Well,
38:36
they
38:36
wouldn't.
38:37
So
38:37
they
38:37
said,
38:37
you
38:37
review
38:38
it.
38:38
And
38:38
I
38:38
did.
38:38
I
38:39
wrote
38:39
a
38:39
review
38:39
of
38:40
Bill
38:40
Perry's
38:40
book.
38:41
So
38:41
I.
38:41
I'm
38:42
really
38:42
very
38:43
much
38:43
influenced
38:44
by
38:44
his
38:44
thinking.
38:45
And
38:45
his
38:46
thinking
38:46
is,
38:46
we
38:47
are
38:47
living
38:47
on
38:48
the
38:48
brink.
38:49
So
38:49
that's
38:50
worth
38:50
thinking
38:51
about.
38:51
But.
38:52
And
38:52
thinking
38:52
about
38:53
it,
38:53
realizing
38:54
most
38:54
people
38:55
aren't
38:55
worried.
38:56
This
38:56
is
38:56
not
38:56
something
38:57
people
38:57
want
38:57
to
38:58
talk
38:58
about.
38:58
In
38:58
fact,
38:58
if
38:59
you
38:59
tell
38:59
them
39:00
how
39:00
dangerous
39:01
it
39:01
is,
39:01
they're
39:02
going
39:02
to
39:02
get
39:02
turned
39:02
off
39:03
and
39:03
tell
39:03
them,
39:03
you,
39:04
boy,
39:04
you're
39:04
a
39:04
wet
39:04
blanket.
39:05
I
39:05
don't
39:05
want
39:05
to.
39:05
Come
39:06
on,
39:07
you're
39:08
really
39:08
negative.
39:09
If
39:09
people
39:10
want
39:11
the
39:11
nice,
39:12
warm,
39:12
fuzzy.
39:13
And
39:14
so
39:14
how
39:14
do
39:14
you
39:15
understand
39:16
the
39:16
truth?
39:16
How
39:17
do
39:17
you
39:17
speak
39:17
the
39:17
truth?
39:18
In
39:18
a
39:18
way
39:18
it
39:18
can
39:18
be
39:19
heard
39:19
and
39:20
is
39:20
not
39:21
demoralizing.
39:22
That,
39:22
I
39:22
would
39:22
say,
39:22
is
39:23
the
39:23
question,
39:23
should
39:24
we
39:24
have
39:24
truth
39:25
but
39:25
to
39:25
have
39:26
commitment
39:27
and
39:27
inspiration,
39:28
dedication
39:29
to
39:29
doing
39:30
everything
39:30
you
39:30
can?
39:32
Yeah.
39:32
And
39:32
you
39:33
with
39:33
your
39:34
Zen
39:34
background,
39:35
Jerry,
39:35
I'm
39:36
inclined
39:36
to
39:36
bring
39:36
up.
39:37
You're
39:37
pointing
39:37
to
39:37
the
39:38
extraordinary
39:38
complexity
39:39
of
39:40
these
39:40
issues
39:41
and
39:41
their
39:42
urgency
39:42
and
39:43
the
39:43
fact
39:43
that
39:43
there
39:44
aren't
39:44
simple
39:44
answers.
39:45
And
39:46
it
39:46
reminds
39:46
me
39:46
of
39:47
a
39:47
kind
39:47
of
39:47
Zen
39:47
koan,
39:48
given
39:48
your
39:49
background,
39:50
and
39:50
particularly
39:50
what's
39:51
called
39:51
a
39:51
genji
39:51
kon,
39:52
a
39:52
koan
39:52
which
39:52
arises
39:53
out
39:53
of
39:53
life
39:54
itself.
39:55
And
39:56
the
39:56
nature
39:56
of
39:56
the
39:57
con
39:57
is
39:57
there's
39:58
no
39:58
one
39:58
final
39:59
answer.
39:59
But
39:59
every.
40:00
You
40:00
have
40:00
to
40:00
just
40:01
keep
40:01
wrestling
40:01
with
40:02
it
40:02
and
40:02
going
40:02
into
40:02
it
40:03
again
40:03
and
40:03
again.
40:03
And
40:04
every
40:04
time
40:04
you
40:05
do,
40:05
there's
40:05
the
40:05
potential
40:06
for
40:06
taking
40:06
you
40:07
deeper
40:07
into
40:07
the
40:07
question,
40:08
deeper
40:08
into
40:08
yourself,
40:09
and
40:09
deeper
40:09
into
40:09
life.
40:11
And
40:11
these
40:12
issues
40:12
you're
40:13
raising
40:13
are
40:14
really
40:14
the
40:14
cons
40:15
of
40:15
our
40:15
time.
40:16
And
40:17
there
40:17
aren't
40:18
easy
40:18
answers.
40:19
And
40:19
as
40:20
you
40:20
say,
40:20
it's
40:21
absolutely
40:21
crucial
40:22
that
40:22
we
40:23
keep
40:23
looking
40:23
at
40:23
them.
40:24
Well,
40:25
the
40:25
sauce
40:26
then,
40:26
as
40:26
I
40:27
understand
40:27
it,
40:28
is,
40:29
you
40:29
know,
40:30
just
40:30
breathe,
40:31
just
40:32
focus,
40:33
and
40:34
just
40:34
sitting.
40:35
Okay.
40:36
That
40:36
there's
40:37
not
40:37
an
40:37
answer.
40:37
The
40:38
state
40:39
of
40:39
emptiness.
40:40
I
40:40
can't
40:41
say
40:41
that
40:41
I
40:41
attain
40:41
the
40:42
state
40:42
of
40:42
emptiness.
40:43
But
40:43
I
40:43
have
40:44
a
40:44
sense
40:45
that
40:45
that's
40:45
not
40:45
about
40:46
something.
40:46
You
40:47
can
40:47
use
40:49
something.
40:49
I'm
40:49
going
40:49
to
40:49
leverage
40:50
my
40:50
sense
40:51
of
40:51
emptiness
40:51
to
40:52
something.
40:52
It
40:52
just
40:53
is.
40:53
And
40:54
trying
40:54
to
40:54
get
40:55
that
40:55
notion
40:56
of
40:56
being
40:57
without
40:57
a
40:58
gaining
40:58
idea.
40:59
I've
40:59
been
41:00
thinking.
41:00
I
41:00
don't
41:00
know
41:00
whether
41:00
it
41:01
really
41:01
clarifies
41:02
anything,
41:02
but
41:03
I
41:03
read
41:03
a
41:03
book
41:04
recently
41:04
and
41:05
in
41:05
the
41:05
book
41:05
there
41:05
was
41:06
a
41:06
reference
41:07
to
41:07
a
41:07
man
41:08
whose
41:08
name
41:08
I
41:08
think
41:08
was
41:08
Langdon,
41:09
but
41:10
I'm
41:10
not
41:10
sure.
41:11
Anyway,
41:11
he's
41:12
a
41:12
writer.
41:13
I
41:13
think
41:13
he
41:13
ultimately
41:14
committed
41:14
suicide,
41:15
but
41:15
he
41:15
was
41:15
a
41:15
writer
41:16
on
41:16
the.
41:16
On
41:17
the
41:17
Holocaust.
41:18
And
41:18
he
41:18
criticized
41:19
the
41:20
book
41:20
on
41:20
meaning
41:21
written
41:21
by
41:22
the
41:22
logo
41:23
Therapy
41:23
Frank
41:24
of.
41:24
Viktor
41:24
Frank
41:24
Victor
41:24
Frankl.
41:25
Yeah.
41:25
He
41:25
did
41:25
not
41:26
like
41:26
Viktor
41:26
Frankl.
41:27
Trying
41:27
to
41:28
derive
41:28
meaning
41:29
from
41:29
the
41:29
experience
41:30
in
41:30
the
41:30
camps.
41:31
He
41:31
said
41:32
there's
41:32
no
41:33
meaning,
41:34
it
41:34
just
41:34
was.
41:35
He
41:36
wasn't
41:36
diminishing
41:36
it,
41:37
but
41:37
he
41:37
was
41:38
approaching
41:38
it
41:39
in
41:39
a
41:39
different
41:39
way,
41:40
in
41:40
a
41:40
way
41:40
that
41:40
said,
41:41
very
41:42
honest.
41:42
Can
41:42
we
41:43
accept
41:43
something?
41:44
There's
41:44
just
41:45
no
41:45
explanation.
41:46
There's
41:46
no.
41:47
Don't
41:47
derive
41:48
any
41:48
meaning.
41:49
I
41:49
remember
41:49
Warner
41:50
Erhart
41:50
once
41:51
saying
41:51
that
41:52
life
41:52
is
41:53
empty
41:53
and
41:54
meaningless,
41:55
but
41:56
don't
41:56
derive
41:57
anything
41:57
from
41:58
that.
41:58
You
41:58
can't
41:58
derive
41:59
any
41:59
conclusion.
42:00
So
42:01
just
42:01
sit.
42:02
Just
42:03
be
42:04
in
42:04
the
42:04
face
42:05
of
42:05
all
42:05
that.
42:05
Now,
42:07
how
42:07
you
42:07
do
42:07
that
42:07
or
42:07
even
42:07
what
42:08
that
42:08
might
42:08
mean,
42:09
that's.
42:09
I
42:10
think.
42:10
I
42:10
don't
42:10
know
42:10
if
42:10
there's
42:11
any
42:11
further
42:12
in
42:12
that
42:12
path.
42:13
But
42:13
that
42:13
is
42:13
the
42:14
message,
42:15
I
42:15
think,
42:16
of
42:16
Zen.
42:17
If
42:17
you
42:17
can
42:17
say
42:18
Zen
42:18
has
42:18
a
42:18
message.
42:19
I
42:19
guess
42:19
you
42:19
can't.
42:20
We
42:20
have
42:20
a
42:21
statement
42:22
that
42:22
we
42:22
made
42:23
when
42:23
I
42:23
was
42:23
in
42:23
the
42:24
Jesuits.
42:24
It
42:24
was
42:25
a
42:25
Latin
42:25
phrase
42:25
that
42:26
we
42:26
would
42:26
encourage
42:27
one
42:27
another.
42:27
It
42:28
was
42:28
called
42:28
age
42:29
quad
42:30
ages.
42:31
It's
42:31
do
42:32
what
42:32
you're
42:33
doing.
42:34
Just
42:34
do
42:34
what
42:35
you're
42:35
doing.
42:35
And
42:36
they
42:36
would
42:36
tell
42:36
me
42:36
that
42:37
because
42:37
we,
42:37
as
42:38
part
42:38
of
42:38
our
42:39
work,
42:39
part
42:39
of
42:40
our
42:40
path,
42:40
we
42:41
had
42:41
to
42:41
pick
42:41
grapes.
42:42
There
42:42
was
42:42
a
42:42
winery
42:43
connected
42:43
to
42:44
the.
42:44
To
42:44
the
42:44
seminary,
42:45
to
42:45
the
42:45
novitiate.
42:46
And
42:46
so
42:46
we'd
42:47
be
42:47
out
42:47
during
42:47
the
42:47
summer
42:48
picking
42:48
grapes.
42:48
And
42:49
I'd
42:49
be
42:49
talking
42:50
philosophy
42:51
or
42:51
theology.
42:51
They
42:52
say,
42:52
Brother
42:52
Brown,
42:53
just
42:53
pick
42:54
grapes.
42:55
Ajay
42:55
Quad
42:56
ajit.
42:57
Now
42:57
I
42:57
chart
42:58
created
42:58
a
42:58
charter
42:59
school
42:59
in
42:59
Oakland.
43:00
I
43:00
made
43:00
their
43:00
motto,
43:01
age
43:01
quad
43:02
adages.
43:03
So
43:03
do
43:04
what
43:04
you're
43:04
doing.
43:05
And
43:05
that
43:05
means
43:06
fully
43:07
embrace,
43:08
be
43:08
present.
43:09
So
43:09
there's
43:09
quite
43:10
a
43:10
lot
43:10
of
43:10
meaning
43:10
in
43:11
that
43:11
particular
43:12
Jesuit
43:13
slogan.
43:14
I
43:14
don't
43:14
even
43:14
know
43:15
if
43:15
they
43:15
use
43:15
it
43:16
anymore.
43:16
It's
43:17
one
43:17
that
43:17
I
43:17
continue
43:18
to
43:18
refer
43:19
to.
43:19
What
43:19
the
43:19
hell
43:19
are
43:19
we
43:20
talking
43:20
about?
43:20
What
43:20
is
43:21
adj
43:21
quod
43:22
adis?
43:22
How
43:22
do
43:22
you
43:23
do
43:23
what
43:24
you're
43:24
doing?
43:24
I
43:25
mean,
43:25
that's
43:25
a
43:25
tautology.
43:26
But
43:27
as
43:27
Gregory
43:27
Bateson
43:28
said
43:28
all
43:28
the
43:28
big
43:29
ideas
43:29
are
43:29
tautologies.
43:32
Well,
43:32
and
43:32
there's
43:32
also
43:33
the
43:33
Zen.
43:34
You.
43:34
And
43:34
since
43:35
we.
43:35
Since
43:35
we're
43:36
in
43:36
a
43:36
Zen,
43:36
there's
43:36
also
43:37
the
43:37
Zen
43:38
story,
43:38
you
43:39
know,
43:39
facing
43:39
a
43:40
wall
43:40
of
43:40
stone
43:41
and
43:41
just
43:42
keep
43:42
going.
43:43
Yeah.
43:44
Not
43:44
where
43:45
we
43:45
are.
43:45
Where
43:46
we're
43:46
only.
43:47
Yeah,
43:48
but
43:48
we
43:48
got
43:48
to
43:48
do
43:48
something
43:49
in
43:49
the
43:49
meantime.
43:50
That's
43:50
what
43:50
I'm.
43:51
There's
43:51
way
43:51
up
43:51
time.
43:52
My
43:52
life
43:53
now
43:53
is
43:53
I'm
43:53
87,
43:54
so
43:55
I'm
43:55
going
43:55
to
43:55
die.
43:55
I
43:55
don't
43:56
know
43:56
when,
43:56
but
43:57
not
43:57
that
43:57
far
43:57
off.
43:58
What
43:58
do
43:59
I
43:59
do
43:59
in
43:59
the
44:00
meantime?
44:01
I
44:01
asked
44:01
some
44:01
of
44:01
my
44:01
contemporaries
44:02
what's
44:03
to
44:03
be
44:03
done
44:04
in
44:04
the
44:04
meantime?
44:05
And
44:05
they
44:06
say,
44:06
what
44:06
are
44:06
you
44:06
talking
44:06
about?
44:06
I
44:07
said,
44:07
between
44:07
now
44:08
and
44:08
death
44:09
or
44:09
senility,
44:10
what's
44:10
your
44:10
program?
44:11
So
44:12
I
44:12
think
44:12
you
44:12
have
44:13
to
44:13
sit
44:13
on
44:13
that
44:13
question
44:14
because
44:14
it's
44:14
something
44:15
you
44:15
got
44:15
to
44:15
ask
44:15
yourself
44:16
every
44:16
day.
44:17
Stay
44:17
tuned
44:17
to
44:18
part
44:18
two
44:18
of
44:18
this
44:18
extraordinary
44:19
conversation
44:20
with
44:20
former
44:20
California
44:21
governor
44:21
Jerry
44:21
Brown.
44:22
He
44:22
doesn't
44:23
missed
44:23
a
44:23
beat.
44:24
Thank
44:24
you
44:24
very
44:24
much
44:25
for
44:25
being
44:25
a
44:25
part
44:26
of
44:26
this
44:26
conversation.
44:27
We
44:27
hope
44:27
that
44:28
you
44:28
were
44:28
moved,
44:28
as
44:29
we
44:29
are
44:29
moved,
44:30
being
44:30
part
44:30
of
44:30
it
44:30
ourselves.
44:31
We'd
44:32
also
44:32
like
44:32
to
44:32
say
44:32
that
44:33
this
44:33
is
44:33
being
44:33
funded
44:34
by
44:34
Roger
44:34
and
44:35
myself.
44:35
It
44:35
comes
44:35
out
44:35
of
44:36
our
44:36
pockets.
44:36
So
44:36
if
44:36
you
44:37
would
44:37
like
44:37
to
44:37
help
44:37
us
44:38
to.
44:38
Mainly
44:39
to
44:39
get
44:39
this
44:39
podcast
44:40
out
44:40
to
44:40
more
44:40
people
44:41
because
44:41
the
44:41
bigger
44:42
audience
44:42
have.
44:42
Which
44:42
is
44:43
steadily
44:43
growing,
44:43
but
44:43
the
44:44
more
44:44
people
44:44
we
44:44
can
44:44
reach
44:45
and
44:45
the
44:45
more
44:45
marketing
44:46
we
44:46
can
44:46
do,
44:46
the
44:47
more
44:47
positive
44:47
effect
44:48
we
44:48
can
44:48
have
44:48
on
44:48
the
44:48
world.
44:49
So
44:49
we've
44:49
done
44:49
a
44:50
couple
44:50
of
44:50
ways,
44:50
but
44:50
we'd
44:51
like
44:51
you
44:51
to
44:51
buy
44:51
us
44:52
a
44:52
cup
44:52
of
44:52
coffee.
44:52
Very
44:53
simple.
44:53
And
44:53
I
44:53
do
44:54
that
44:54
with
44:54
podcasts
44:55
that
44:55
I
44:55
support
44:56
and
44:56
I
44:57
find
44:57
it's
44:57
very
44:57
satisfying.
44:58
So
44:58
thank
44:59
you
44:59
for
44:59
your
44:59
help,
44:59
thank
45:00
you
45:00
for
45:00
your
45:00
presence
45:00
and
45:01
thank
45:01
you
45:01
for
45:01
all
45:02
you
45:02
are
45:02
and
45:02
all
45:03
you
45:03
do.
45:03
We
45:03
love
45:03
you.
45:14
It.