Latest / UK Column Radio / On the Ground in Venezuela: US Aggression, The "Drug War" Lie & The New Monroe Doctrine

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On the Ground in Venezuela: US Aggression, The "Drug War" Lie & The New Monroe Doctrine · UK Column Radio

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Silk and Steel
• 0:04
  Podcast. I'm your host Carl Zah.
• 0:07
  Today we have a very special guest, Diago, all the way from
• 0:12
  Krakus, Venezuela. As many people know, right now,
• 0:17
  US is carrying out serious military aggression against
• 0:20
  Venezuela. So I invited Diago Seguerra to
• 0:25
  come to tell us what the situation is on the ground.
• 0:29
  But, but first, for my audience, Diego, could you, would you do a
• 0:33
  brief intro of who you are and what you do?
• 0:37
  Sure, thank you for having me, Carl, and and thank you for
• 0:41
  this. Well, I I'm a journalist.
• 0:44
  I'm a writer and a researcher for especially mostly focus on
• 0:49
  mission better lab outlet, which can translate roughly into truth
• 0:53
  mission. We don't do actual news
• 0:57
  coverage. We're, we're more focused
• 1:00
  analysis and, and processing many stuff and go as deep as we
• 1:05
  can with, with regarding the successive junctions we've been
• 1:09
  going through since, I don't know, Mission Bedard has a 12
• 1:13
  years already online. And so we've seen a lot from our
• 1:19
  perspective on what's going on, on the ground in Venezuela, but
• 1:23
  also for Venezuelan and Latin America or Spanish speaking
• 1:26
  people in general. Analysis and, and research for
• 1:32
  yeah, for, for, for bringing subjects that are not that usual
• 1:35
  in Spanish, you know, different settings, different ideological
• 1:40
  trends and traditions and so forth, even to an academic
• 1:44
  level. But of course now it's more,
• 1:47
  it's more, it's more Polonized. But basically that's what we do.
• 1:50
  And that's basically what I what I've been doing all these years.
• 1:53
  And I've been doing also the rounds recently in several
• 1:56
  interviews we've been with coincided in one of them, of
• 1:59
  course. And, and yeah, I mean, that's
• 2:02
  basically what we do. I mean, we, we cover as much as
• 2:06
  we can and to decode as much as we can as well, which is, you
• 2:10
  know, pretty common in Chavismo. I'm also, yeah, I'm, I support
• 2:13
  the government. I'm not a government official.
• 2:15
  I'm and yeah, and we are in a very complex situation which
• 2:21
  it's very also very rich in how many things are, you know, just
• 2:26
  coming through that maybe don't even belong to the Venezuelan
• 2:29
  situation, but it go wider, you know.
• 2:32
  So that's it basically. Yeah.
• 2:35
  So right now obviously Trump administration has really crank
• 2:39
  up the military pressure on Venezuela up to the 11.
• 2:44
  I want to ask you, what is your take on this current situation?
• 2:50
  Why do you think Trump administration choose at this
• 2:53
  particular moment to to to carry out its aggression against
• 2:58
  Venezuela? Of course we know US always had
• 3:01
  a hate boner for Venezuela ever since Travis came to power.
• 3:06
  This is nothing new. But why the?
• 3:09
  Ramping up. Yeah, why they're ramping up
• 3:12
  right now. Yeah.
• 3:14
  You know, it's funny, I remember when we we share like a panel in
• 3:20
  at the Iran Talk interview because it was early, there was
• 3:25
  clearly the early stages of this.
• 3:27
  And regardless of the build up and also the, yeah, clearly
• 3:32
  kinetic extrajudicial action, many of the things we talked
• 3:36
  about regardless that we didn't, I think neither of us expected
• 3:40
  to escalate this in this way. We knew it was going to escalate
• 3:45
  in some way, but not this one. Maybe the main reasons we talked
• 3:50
  about back then, I think they still stand and we're talking
• 3:53
  about, I think this combo was like 2 weeks, two months ago,
• 3:57
  sorry. And so it has a lot to do on.
• 4:02
  And there are several layers here, of course, regarding
• 4:05
  Venezuela and regarding the obvious reason you could just
• 4:07
  basically summed up because of Venezuelan resources, because of
• 4:11
  the political standard it has already for 1/4 of a century a
• 4:17
  bit more and for its geography and a lot of a lot of reasons.
• 4:22
  And also you have you also got like their own context, what's
• 4:25
  going on in the States and what also has been happening
• 4:30
  globally. I mean, there's an, there's an
• 4:32
  interrelation between all these factors like a very, in a very
• 4:35
  clear way, I think. And like I said, it stands on
• 4:39
  what they're doing now. It's, it's, it really resembles
• 4:42
  and it hasn't changed, but deepened I guess from two months
• 4:45
  from now, which is power projecting, forcing, shaping up
• 4:49
  the psychological elements of this in order to force an easier
• 4:52
  way out of this. And also, well, I think neither
• 4:58
  of us actually ruled out if they could go bonkers in any
• 5:01
  direction, you know, which is also quite a feat these days.
• 5:05
  So that also it it, it, it's also manifesting itself here
• 5:10
  through, especially through the, of course, I think it's not on
• 5:14
  the kinetic level, but on the think tank politician, political
• 5:18
  speech discourse level. I think it's insane also what it
• 5:22
  shows it's insane. And and that's what the the main
• 5:27
  reason, yeah. I remember, so during our talk
• 5:32
  on the Iran talks two months ago, at that time I was looking
• 5:38
  at this and I thought, OK, well this is obviously a a bluff
• 5:43
  because at that time US only pivoted about 4000 military
• 5:47
  personnel into the region. And looking at the numbers 4000
• 5:51
  military personnel is not going to do and and it's not going to
• 5:54
  move any needle. So at that time my assessment
• 5:57
  was this was a pure intimidation tactic by Trump to apply
• 6:02
  pressure on government of Venezuela and in hope of crack,
• 6:08
  create some crack and fissure in the Venezuelan society so they
• 6:12
  can inspire some kind of colour revolution or regime change.
• 6:16
  You know, essentially they do regime change on the cheap.
• 6:19
  But I didn't think 4000 military personnel was enough to, you
• 6:24
  know, to carry out a serious ground invasion.
• 6:28
  But but now they have pivoted significantly more military
• 6:32
  acid. They're they're saying they're
• 6:34
  going to another aircraft carrier attack group is on the
• 6:38
  way from from Europe and. They already, they already
• 6:41
  actually, they, they say that the gaol force is already on the
• 6:45
  Southern Command area of responsibility.
• 6:47
  I don't know if that's true, but that's what they say already.
• 6:50
  Right. And and then they have
• 6:53
  significantly increased naval and air assets all around the
• 6:57
  the bases in the Caribbean. So do you at the time when we
• 7:03
  talk on your wrong talk you agree with my assessment, but
• 7:07
  today would you, would you, would you have a different
• 7:11
  assessment on the current situation?
• 7:13
  Do you think that would still hold?
• 7:16
  Certainly I think it does hold, but it now has a, a very large
• 7:20
  extra element to it, which is the military factor, the way
• 7:22
  we're seeing it right now. And I think if I'm not mistaken,
• 7:26
  back then they, they didn't kill anyone yet either, which was
• 7:29
  another end we, which is another factor that also like of course
• 7:33
  changed everything, the tone, the rhetoric, the implications,
• 7:37
  the possible consequences and so forth.
• 7:39
  And, and yes, even although I think it, they still are looking
• 7:46
  for a regime change on the cheap, they're putting
• 7:50
  themselves in a situation that they could go further.
• 7:55
  I think this also, I think it also depends from where you see
• 7:58
  it and also what even what's going on right now, as in maybe
• 8:03
  I think we also talked about it back then.
• 8:05
  Trump could, for example, find their halfway more satisfactory
• 8:10
  outcome for this without going on full, you know, without
• 8:15
  running amok or further than they already have.
• 8:18
  But rule is something different. So I think it also depends on
• 8:20
  how any of these visions prevails and in order to see how
• 8:25
  far they're going to go. It's funny that we have already
• 8:29
  close to 10 minutes of conversation when and the
• 8:31
  discussion about if the drug thing is true or not, it's not
• 8:34
  even a discussion. It's not a subject here.
• 8:36
  It's not a discussion. That that's bogus.
• 8:39
  I mean, what we we all know that's bogus.
• 8:42
  The you know, the Trump was mentioning about fentanyl.
• 8:45
  We know that fentanyl is not coming out of Venezuela, first
• 8:48
  of all. And now they're actually
• 8:51
  expanding the whole Now they're, they're, they're aiming the
• 8:55
  rhetoric not only to work Venezuela, but also Colombia
• 8:59
  that that actually caught me by surprise a little bit because
• 9:02
  Colombia traditionally have been, had been the strong,
• 9:06
  strongest US ally in the region. And you know, basically was
• 9:10
  Colombia was playing the role of US proxy and many times against
• 9:15
  Israel. So why, why the now?
• 9:18
  Why? Why are they?
• 9:19
  Why Colombia? Yes.
• 9:20
  Colombia as well. Well, you can still ask the
• 9:26
  question if it's actually Colombia, they're, they're,
• 9:28
  they're thinking of or, or their president, Gustavo Petro, the
• 9:31
  Petro government. I mean, regardless of the
• 9:33
  analysis they could make and they still have huge amount of
• 9:36
  assets and agreements and, you know, binding legal stuff on
• 9:39
  trade in a lot of ways to and means of pressure.
• 9:42
  So it I think it's far more clear in the Colombian case.
• 9:45
  I don't know regarding the Colombian military, for example,
• 9:48
  how they would react if, if, if the pressure gets even further.
• 9:54
  Because also this, I mean, there are different reactions now to
• 9:57
  this, maybe even unexpected regarding the the support or
• 10:01
  rejection or silence on other Latin American quarters
• 10:05
  regarding what's going on other than the usual vocals one.
• 10:09
  But I think it has to do with that.
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  And also Colombia and Minnesota are basically historically
• 10:14
  almost the same thing. We're like like twins, you know,
• 10:17
  in a way ever since the start. So that also this kind of things
• 10:22
  of course get also get ingrained.
• 10:23
  And you can also think of some neo con planning here as a wider
• 10:30
  theatre of operations like AF PAC, you know, the kind of
• 10:33
  juncture between the kind of merging of territory between
• 10:37
  operational areas of interest, if you may.
• 10:40
  So I think it's twofold in that sense because I mean, Petrol's
• 10:47
  politically it's far more vulnerable than than President
• 10:50
  Maduro is. And you have 7 officials
• 10:54
  declared military bases in Colombia and two more that are
• 10:58
  on declare and who knows how many smaller stations and Lily
• 11:01
  pads and whatnot on specifically on Colombia.
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  Let's let's not talk about Panama and Peru and the Amazon
• 11:08
  and close to Brazil also and Guyana.
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  So it's part of the of the empire of bases, of course.
• 11:14
  So I mean, I think it's not as hard as it would be here in, in,
• 11:18
  in thinking of a a very ham fisted riding chain scenario.
• 11:24
  But that also tells you what they're actually thinking of and
• 11:27
  also how this expansion actually is becoming a Caribbean
• 11:31
  situation. Of course, Venezuela is the
• 11:32
  flashpoint, but from the 60 plus murdered fishermen, seamen,
• 11:41
  smugglers of whatever, I mean, we don't know basically.
• 11:45
  And we in regards if we knew or not, it's still an extrajudicial
• 11:48
  killing. Many are Colombians and, and
• 11:51
  also recently the most of the operations are actually on the
• 11:54
  Eastern Caribbean, on the Colombian Pacific Coast, not
• 11:58
  only in Venezuela. And also you have also tiny
• 12:00
  guardians who have also died in this, in these strikes and all
• 12:04
  these 60 something strikes so far.
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  So that also tells you 2 things. I mean, it tells you that this
• 12:11
  is actually bigger than Venezuela and also they it also
• 12:16
  tells you that that this is also about, I mean, it doesn't matter
• 12:28
  who it is, you know, it doesn't matter where, where, where these
• 12:31
  people hail from. So it's also, so it's, it's,
• 12:34
  it's heavily regional in, in that sense.
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  But at the same time, just to this is where the, I think the
• 12:43
  deeper element comes. If you've pairs this with what's
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  going on in Argentina or Gujana or the countries that are
• 12:51
  actually being insanely spoiled and quote unquote, or groomed
• 12:55
  or, you know, honeypotted into the actual debt traps and so on
• 12:58
  and so forth. It's a regional thing.
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  It's the reshaping. It's wider than than we're
• 13:03
  actually seeing it. So yours you think this is a, a
• 13:09
  a grander Neil Monroe Doctrine they're trying to imposing on
• 13:14
  rest of the Latin America this, this is this is just a a a part
• 13:18
  of that. And one of the stated reason for
• 13:22
  U.S. government for the for the current military action is that
• 13:25
  they're saying they're counter Chinese and Russian influence.
• 13:29
  Now. Do you do you buy that?
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  Do you do you think that is one of their their reason for doing
• 13:35
  this? Absolutely.
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  I mean, in the sense of the kind of engagement that countries
• 13:40
  like Venezuela has currently. I mean, it, it yeah,
• 13:44
  geographically opens. I mean, sorry, but that I
• 13:49
  digress. But in a sense, I mean, there's
• 13:51
  not one country in Latin America that doesn't have a strong trade
• 13:55
  relationship with China, except for Paraguay, which still
• 13:58
  recognises Taiwan and and maybe some Caribbean islands as well.
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  But other than that, even Argentina itself, it's not
• 14:06
  unable to decouple from China in this context.
• 14:09
  But yes, and the thing about Venezuela, if we, if we compare
• 14:13
  with these other countries, it's more about the, the nature of
• 14:16
  engagement and the, and of course on the, that's on the
• 14:21
  geopolitical level, but also the way it comes and how it, how
• 14:26
  it's not a liberal, conventional pro U.S. government that's doing
• 14:30
  this. I mean, that's the other problem
• 14:31
  they have here. I mean, and before sanctions, it
• 14:34
  proved to be a very successful to an extent model in order to
• 14:38
  bring a good example, to be a good neighbour in a different
• 14:41
  way and to also uphold the livelihood of people.
• 14:43
  And that's that are that those aren't nice stuff.
• 14:46
  And also we're in this also involves the health of China,
• 14:50
  Russia, Iran and other players, But these are the big players.
• 14:53
  Of course it's it's a bigger because it's going to it's going
• 14:58
  to strange even more the US, in this case, the US Venezuelan
• 15:02
  relationship, but also the US Latin American relationship.
• 15:06
  And they're also now all about reassuring about retaking re
• 15:09
  hemisphere is the word the the Project 2025 uses to explain
• 15:14
  what they're doing. As in, yeah, Monroe Doctrine.
• 15:18
  To the extent that this is not, this is even America from the
• 15:22
  Americans, you know, it goes further in that sense because
• 15:25
  they need a levance realm in order to be able to cope with
• 15:30
  the Asian century, a very rich and resources levance realm.
• 15:36
  What? What now I'm curious what what
• 15:39
  is the extent of China's involvement in Venezuela?
• 15:42
  I mean, is China investing in Venezuelan oil industry or
• 15:47
  somehow investing in Venezuelan economy in some way?
• 15:52
  I mean, why? Why are they so afraid of the
• 15:54
  Chinese influence? Well, you have yeah, I mean
• 15:58
  Chinese are engaging several levels.
• 16:00
  I mean from high quality made in China 2025 stuff.
• 16:03
  I mean thinking about what they can actually bring over to, to
• 16:07
  outside of the of of China, you know, from vehicles to
• 16:12
  appliances to yes to oil purchasing it.
• 16:17
  I mean, it's it's very wide, it's very comprehensive.
• 16:19
  So as far as it gets, I'm not into numbers right now, but and
• 16:24
  it's as far as I know, it still was still second regarding
• 16:27
  Brazil in that sense or very close to being, you know, the
• 16:30
  with the highest level of engagement economically speaking
• 16:33
  and on on trade. And also, but you have to keep
• 16:36
  in mind that also involves as far as sanctions are actually
• 16:40
  involved. I mean, in the sense there are
• 16:43
  some things that I guess they, for example, the oil purchasing
• 16:47
  is one of them, or the way they they, they, they, they exported,
• 16:51
  they imported. But I mean it, it I, it's very,
• 16:55
  it's, it's very wide regarding, but it has some limitations.
• 17:00
  So sorry to interrupt you, but so that because you brought
• 17:03
  about the oil sanction, because the US oil sanction on Venezuela
• 17:07
  is actually interesting because it it it, it's, it sounds like a
• 17:11
  white blanket ban on sanction on any export of Venezuelan oil
• 17:16
  except Exxon Mobil receive a waiver so they can.
• 17:22
  Chevron. Chevron, Chevron, sorry, sorry,
• 17:25
  Chevron. They, they receive a waiver so
• 17:28
  they can continue to export Venezuelan crude to United
• 17:32
  States to, to send to the US refinery.
• 17:35
  So it, it sounds more like the policy is really no oil for
• 17:40
  China, but oil should go Venezuelan oil should continue
• 17:43
  to flow to the US. That that that's what it looks
• 17:46
  like. Well, absolutely.
• 17:49
  I mean it has to do that. That's the message it sends
• 17:52
  there. I mean, but of course there are
• 17:53
  other players in agreements from other countries.
• 17:55
  Some have been thwarted with given the context, for example,
• 17:58
  with the shared or gas fields with Trinidad for a give you an
• 18:01
  important example of recent one that sadly has been also
• 18:05
  undermined because of the whole situation, which was actually a
• 18:08
  very key model of cooperation regarding, you know, energy.
• 18:13
  But. And yes, the the Chevron case,
• 18:16
  it's quite interesting because it it it, it, it adds an extra
• 18:19
  layer of complexity to the, to the whole dynamic in several
• 18:22
  ways. First, Chevron has been engaged
• 18:24
  in Venezuela for 100 years at least.
• 18:28
  Yeah, at least not I mean for 100 years, which is enough.
• 18:31
  Exxon, on the other hand, left Venezuela in 2007 because they
• 18:34
  didn't accept the terms now of the, of that, of the shares and
• 18:38
  the, and the way that Venezuela was rewriting the contracts
• 18:41
  with, with all the oil companies with a 51% share for Venezuela
• 18:45
  and they didn't agree with that. So they left and they have sued
• 18:47
  Venezuela afterwards. And they also are the main drive
• 18:51
  on the exploitation of offshore oil and in the disputed wars
• 18:56
  between Venezuela and Guyana currently.
• 19:00
  But at the same time, Chevron also, which has its waivers and
• 19:04
  tries to honour the the contracts and it's and it's
• 19:07
  going through the what a friend called sometime the paperwork
• 19:10
  sanctions. It's also close to Trump.
• 19:15
  I mean, they were the ones who actually paid for the for the
• 19:18
  inauguration party or something or the ACT for, you know, so
• 19:22
  that's also a different layer of all this.
• 19:24
  And also Rubio's very close to Exxon Mobil, Marco Rubio.
• 19:28
  So this also set up, you know, another contradictory element to
• 19:32
  a very messy relationship between politics slash ideology
• 19:37
  and energy and energy market stability.
• 19:41
  Because there was two weeks ago, there was this Friday.
• 19:46
  I don't know if it was, you know, psychological shaping,
• 19:48
  creating the atmosphere, but a lot of movement was going on.
• 19:51
  And you could in in hindsight, I thought maybe that last Friday
• 19:54
  could have something could have happened and it didn't.
• 19:58
  But, and it's not clear yet for me.
• 20:00
  I mean, it's not hard to prove other than the usual speculation
• 20:03
  in spinning that, but it was possible.
• 20:05
  But it wasn't, you know, that kind of atmosphere which is
• 20:08
  which is intense and. But it seems that the prepared
• 20:13
  Bloomberg, the the WTI at that moment, just because of the
• 20:17
  uncertainty was just surging its price.
• 20:22
  So this also could adds up another, you know, layer of of
• 20:26
  contradictions and and conflict wind side that also could
• 20:29
  explain the relationship between views and also the why why maybe
• 20:36
  nothing has happened yet. What are they waiting for if
• 20:39
  they're going to actually do something with the military
• 20:42
  aspect of this situation? Right.
• 20:48
  I, I mean, just the, what you describe about the relationship
• 20:51
  between the Chevron and the White House and Marco Rubio,
• 20:53
  this, this actually makes perfect sense in American
• 20:55
  context because American politics has always been paid to
• 21:00
  play and and we have the best politician the money can buy.
• 21:05
  So that that actually was perfectly understandable.
• 21:09
  So so sorry. Sorry I interrupted you before.
• 21:12
  No, no, please, please go on. I, I, I, I can go.
• 21:14
  I can drift away. So don't worry.
• 21:16
  So it's good that you do that. Right.
• 21:18
  Because so right now, what do you think countries like China,
• 21:24
  Russia and Iran can assist Venezuela in the face of US
• 21:30
  aggression currently? I think it depends on it's a
• 21:35
  case by case thing. You know, there's no other than
• 21:37
  the, you know, the most general overall diplomatic multilateral
• 21:43
  approach, which is of course, it's common among all of these
• 21:47
  countries, be it China, Russia and Iran.
• 21:49
  But yes, there are different levels of engagement and, and
• 21:55
  also areas, I think, I mean, China has a very different and
• 21:58
  very cautious way to, to deal with this kind of things because
• 22:02
  of how counterproductive Canada is and how much of part of it to
• 22:05
  say to this trap this could be, you know, so it's quite risk
• 22:08
  averse of this kind of things, but they still support
• 22:12
  politically, diplomatically and commercially.
• 22:18
  So and they're not and I don't think that's going to stop And
• 22:21
  it could probably intensify, you know, which is also an
• 22:24
  interesting trend you can see right now, be it with, with
• 22:30
  foreign friends, partners or be it inside Venezuela, what
• 22:33
  they're doing, what the government is doing, facing the
• 22:37
  current juncture. So that's China.
• 22:40
  I, I wouldn't personally wouldn't expect more than that
• 22:43
  they actually are doing right now, but they're going to be
• 22:44
  persistent and maybe maybe I don't know, they can tone it up,
• 22:48
  maybe they can do depends on where where this goes.
• 22:50
  And I can't predict China's behaviour, but given precedence,
• 22:55
  it makes like it's what makes more sense.
• 22:57
  Russia, it's different. I think they're more proactive
• 23:02
  in that sense and they have been also very important assistance
• 23:07
  in technical military field, you know, the material military
• 23:12
  field in various areas and also in, in military trade.
• 23:17
  So, and there have been a lot of joint exercises and so forth and
• 23:21
  a lot of security cooperation. So that also, I don't know how
• 23:25
  the full extent, but I, I do know it's, it's more intensive
• 23:29
  in that sense. They're more easily involved in
• 23:31
  that kind of thing. But I don't think either this is
• 23:32
  not, this is a country that won't, which is also something
• 23:35
  that many, you know, have been got this question several times.
• 23:40
  If they're going to go in, go to the field, I mean, of course, I
• 23:43
  think it's pretty hard. I don't think so they will do.
• 23:45
  And same for the Iranians also. I mean, neither of the three I
• 23:48
  think are going to have like a very strong kinetic action on an
• 23:52
  official level. That mean at least, you know,
• 23:55
  Iran has for me, I think it's the most engaged of the three
• 23:59
  for their own reasons and the nature of the relationship with
• 24:02
  Venezuela, especially facing sanctions.
• 24:05
  And they're kind of, I mean, how the tactics and how to curtail
• 24:09
  them and how to work around them and that kind of thing, that
• 24:11
  kind of stuff. And, and also advising.
• 24:14
  But once again, also there's military equipment.
• 24:17
  But I don't, I can't, I don't see in this national scenario in
• 24:22
  which on a state level something of this sort happens.
• 24:27
  But that's also enough. I mean, also, why are they going
• 24:29
  to get involved if the country is not able to defend itself in
• 24:32
  any given situation? That's also another element, of
• 24:34
  course, and that's important, Carl, because I think there's a
• 24:38
  Decedian 2024 fetish. It's also part of the equation
• 24:43
  as in their own crazy domino theory.
• 24:46
  They're going to just betting on this.
• 24:48
  It will also happen to Venezuela.
• 24:50
  And to some extent that analysis is correct in the sense that
• 24:53
  they have been applied the same means of pressure regardless of
• 24:58
  with economic or, or covert or whatever.
• 25:02
  I mean, it's quite similar to the ways that they have been
• 25:04
  also institutional, the way they have been twisted and forcing
• 25:07
  our own institutions to break. I mean, they're all branches of
• 25:11
  even our own, even our branches of government.
• 25:13
  So there are a lot of similarities.
• 25:15
  But that's, but that gets to a point.
• 25:17
  It's not the same. And you can't just like, you
• 25:21
  know, think it's going to happen exactly the same way.
• 25:24
  But on principle it's correct, as in maximum impression brings
• 25:28
  collapsing collapse will bring some sort of political takeover.
• 25:31
  But it's not the same case. And it's, I think there are a
• 25:34
  lot of bad calculations going on.
• 25:35
  I think there are a lot of problems with the analytical
• 25:39
  process of all this. There's, there's a recent piece
• 25:42
  by the CSIS regarding. Yeah, they've been following it
• 25:48
  quite intensely. Of course, it's paid by Exxon.
• 25:50
  So the, you know, the, the main takeaway it's going to be it's
• 25:54
  going to be possible. It's going to be cable if we if
• 25:56
  you do this kind of thing. And of course, it's always
• 25:59
  written by a inside think tanker, junior think tanker in a
• 26:04
  some Colonel or general from the Air Force and or something like
• 26:08
  that, which is the case. And it's, and it's interesting
• 26:12
  how they actually also have to admit that, admit that it's very
• 26:17
  limited, even still having 20,000 troops right now or
• 26:21
  something. You know, I think 40,000 it
• 26:24
  could be a number, but no 10,000, sorry.
• 26:28
  But if they need at least 550 thousand at least and some plans
• 26:32
  would think about 150,000. So they admit that if this if
• 26:37
  these are not the even without with with the Ford arrival, if
• 26:42
  this these are not the elements, then this is about something
• 26:44
  else. This is about forcing in a very
• 26:49
  comprehensive way region change inside Venezuela by several
• 26:53
  means, but especially try to bring to set up some sort of
• 26:56
  disruptive attacks that would enable maybe some sort of
• 27:00
  insurgency Libya style so that they kind of suggested, but the
• 27:05
  but the take away that's important.
• 27:06
  That's only that because I've seen that in other papers from
• 27:09
  different institutions. Also it's the fact that they
• 27:13
  even want they acknowledge risk and two they have to force
• 27:17
  inheritance and say it's going to be easy because of this
• 27:21
  markers, whatever they are. So that also tells you that how
• 27:24
  this also it's, it has like, like that urgency and to justify
• 27:31
  the how the viability of the of it all.
• 27:34
  And how big is this? I mean, how how big of forces
• 27:36
  are actually operating here? Yeah, I mean, this is obviously
• 27:40
  why Machado won the Nobel Peace Prize, right?
• 27:43
  I mean, even though that's a that's a prize that Trump very
• 27:47
  much wanted for himself, but they have to give it to Machado
• 27:50
  because they need to make sure success of this this operation.
• 27:55
  And then Machado goes on to to openly support military
• 28:00
  operation against her own country.
• 28:02
  This is a Nobel Peace Prize winner.
• 28:05
  I mean, we live in a 1984 here. Peace is war, folks.
• 28:10
  You know, Nobel Peace Prize owner advocating for war.
• 28:14
  But, but that's why she was selected for, for Nobel Peace
• 28:17
  Prize in the 1st place. And, and, and I would think I
• 28:22
  was also looking at the kind of the level of military pivot to
• 28:27
  Caribbean. Right now.
• 28:29
  It's mostly naval and Air Force. So, you know, I don't think they
• 28:33
  are, you know, ready at this point for like a ground level
• 28:38
  invasion. I mean that, that, that will can
• 28:40
  get very messy very quickly. And, and, and I think also US is
• 28:45
  going to have some logistic issues to actually be able to
• 28:48
  transport ships. They just don't simply don't
• 28:51
  have those army transport ships that on the scale they have
• 28:55
  during the Iraq War anymore. Those ships were are are have
• 28:59
  been mothballed and and and so they might be thinking about
• 29:03
  this is my, my, my, my, my guess that they they may have been
• 29:07
  thinking about doing at most at most either just through
• 29:12
  intimidation or at most kinetic level doing some kind of the the
• 29:18
  Obama's lead from behind campaign in Libya style where
• 29:22
  the where they will send in some Air Force to do some strategic
• 29:26
  bombing and hopefully to cause some insurgency inside Venezuela
• 29:30
  to overthrew the Maduros government.
• 29:33
  And I do is, is that why is that why recently Maduro announced
• 29:38
  that he was going to distribute rifles throughout the country?
• 29:43
  I think there are two, those are two different things in that
• 29:46
  sense. But yeah, I mean, I fully agree
• 29:48
  with that. And I think my view that at
• 29:51
  least for a year over 20 terrorist plot has been foiled
• 29:58
  by the the the security agencies here in Venezuela.
• 30:04
  That tells you something. Once you see this from the other
• 30:07
  hand, and I can quote it, by the way, surely, surely there's this
• 30:11
  also another report of this late pro war pro intervention in
• 30:15
  Venezuela literature that says that basically it's a short 1
• 30:18
  and it seems like tailored for Trump.
• 30:20
  Basically it says that a air strikes on Venezuela to support
• 30:25
  an insurgency would succeed in throughout the whole country
• 30:28
  except from Caracas. So yeah, it's in the it's it's
• 30:32
  in the literature in that sense. And also this CASIS report says
• 30:35
  something about too risky to to do short range or mid mid range
• 30:41
  attacks. So you have to be do long range.
• 30:43
  So yes, this widens the scope of the covert unconventional
• 30:48
  approach to this. And if if this now you can, you
• 30:56
  can you can make both things dialogue as in you have the
• 31:00
  terrorist attempts, the infiltrations and so on and so
• 31:03
  on. And you have this.
• 31:05
  Yeah, it clearly shows that I agree.
• 31:07
  I mean, I agree with you what you're saying with with your
• 31:09
  assessment, which basically was the same back then, by the way.
• 31:12
  I mean, it seems more plausible some sort of air strikes and
• 31:16
  maybe also naval, but not a not a full occupation of sorts.
• 31:22
  And yes, if it's for regime change, they, they need this,
• 31:30
  this proxy force, which of course Maria Corina Machado has
• 31:32
  been that proxy throughout her whole life, throughout her whole
• 31:36
  political life. And so, and then you have
• 31:42
  another thing, which is Trump declaring that he authorised
• 31:46
  covert, CIA covert operations against Venezuela.
• 31:50
  I mean, which is pretty, I mean, it's, it's pretty, it's, I mean,
• 31:54
  it's pretty obvious COVID operations have been going on
• 31:58
  already. So this is about something else.
• 32:01
  Of course it is not about saying that now they're starting, but
• 32:04
  there are clear proof of this. I mean, recently they would try
• 32:07
  to get to A to the president's pilot in order to, they were,
• 32:13
  they were trying to bribe him in order to make him say, you know,
• 32:16
  move course and fly the plane into Miami or something and get
• 32:21
  our president arrested. So, yeah, there are clear signs
• 32:25
  what I mean there are clear signs of trying to disrupt
• 32:28
  internally, you know, and, and sabotage or yeah, infiltrating
• 32:34
  some sort of, you know, terrorist groups or, and try to
• 32:36
  bring about some sort of insurgency.
• 32:38
  But the important thing, Carl, also, which is also I think one
• 32:41
  of the most important takeaways of the real centre situation
• 32:44
  right now. Is it nothing of that.
• 32:45
  It's not only working. People aren't still, after two
• 32:49
  months of this, freaked out about this.
• 32:51
  There's no collapse. There's no major breakdown of of
• 32:55
  the society. There's no actual insurgency
• 32:59
  brewing. You don't feel like an
• 33:01
  insurrectional atmosphere going on.
• 33:03
  You don't see other than on social media and media outside
• 33:08
  of Venezuela, you don't see that here.
• 33:10
  People, first of all, people are not are on interest in
• 33:14
  supporting this kind of things. And that's a big, every poll
• 33:17
  shows big numbers regarding this.
• 33:19
  I mean, there's a minority and there's also a majority in the
• 33:23
  social media landscape, which are many diaspora Venezuelans
• 33:26
  actually supporting this, you know, and there are people who
• 33:29
  also who also supports, but they're not, they're not,
• 33:33
  they're a minority ones one time, not even back in 2019-2020
• 33:37
  with Guaido, there was a bigger, stronger consensus than the one
• 33:40
  there is right now. And I'm including there
• 33:42
  Venezuelan opposition politicians, more of, you know,
• 33:45
  the rational factions of the opposition who also condemned
• 33:49
  and do not agree with with AUS intervention in order to bring
• 33:53
  about regime change. And so that's important.
• 33:55
  I mean, you have that level of resistance which involves the
• 33:58
  military aspects and the national mobilisation aspect of
• 34:02
  people, you know, joining the militias, training and doing
• 34:05
  drills. Not only drills, not only
• 34:07
  military drills, but also disaster relief drills and also
• 34:11
  at the same time, national consultations, national commune
• 34:15
  consultations, which are directed elections for projects
• 34:20
  on local needs, you know, and infrastructure or health or
• 34:26
  anything that a commune that's organised, that's going to be a
• 34:29
  communal circuit. That's the sum of communes are
• 34:32
  going to decide where are they going to allocate a budget.
• 34:35
  There's a big one coming the 23rd.
• 34:38
  So these are also the the ways to resist and also to show that
• 34:45
  this kind of unimpressed feat unimpressive for Venezuelans in
• 34:49
  that sense. It's not working still.
• 34:52
  I think the only one that's that's go on.
• 34:55
  That that that actually leads to my next question is what is a
• 35:00
  sentiment on the street level right now in Caracas?
• 35:04
  Are people worry about this is a tense is like is this do do do
• 35:09
  do people, you know, constantly talking about this every day or
• 35:14
  is everybody just still going through their normal normal
• 35:17
  routine lives? Yeah, I mean, everyone is about
• 35:21
  their business, man. I mean, that's, that's, that's
• 35:23
  one thing the question can come up and it would it could take
• 35:27
  any direction during, during the conversation.
• 35:31
  Mostly people don't want it, but most people are focused on
• 35:34
  getting money, you know, and just, you know, keep, keep it up
• 35:38
  with your life and your livelihood.
• 35:40
  And especially now, which because this is also social,
• 35:43
  sociological and cultural aspect.
• 35:45
  This is the end. We already started the end of
• 35:46
  the year, you know, the holiday spirit and so on, which is very
• 35:51
  intense in Venezuela. Actually, our president declared
• 35:55
  that Christmas started on October already, but that
• 35:58
  actually gets as you get closer to December, it, it gets
• 36:02
  intensified and people are actually mostly focused on that
• 36:04
  and to make and, and yeah, and go be your ends meet and be able
• 36:08
  to, you know, have the traditional party party in
• 36:12
  Venezuelan, the Christmas style, you know, and that's actually
• 36:15
  the the main baseline you're going to see anywhere in the
• 36:19
  country. So at that's for me, it's the
• 36:22
  biggest measure of this. Of course, there might be fear
• 36:25
  there might be concerned that the situation could change also.
• 36:29
  I mean, we're talking now and one more time with it was quite
• 36:34
  different. We we were talking two months
• 36:35
  ago. So who knows, even a a week from
• 36:38
  now, you know, this week actually has felt now as a, you
• 36:41
  know, as a preceptus in soil. And I mean, that's a very slow
• 36:45
  one regarding the previous ones as how intense the ones that
• 36:49
  we're actually following this feel about that, you know, which
• 36:53
  is not necessarily what common people on the streets feel about
• 36:56
  this. But given the movements, it has
• 36:59
  been different. I mean, it's like, I don't know
• 37:03
  if it's the high of the hurricane.
• 37:04
  I don't know if it's fizzling out in some ways.
• 37:06
  I don't know if the there are no actual internal contradictions
• 37:10
  regarding what to do. There's some weird stuff going
• 37:12
  on. I don't know if you saw, but
• 37:13
  allegedly the Brits are not sharing more intelligence with
• 37:18
  the US on the Caribbean, which was used to be a common thing
• 37:21
  regarding drug dealing, drug trafficking and smuggling.
• 37:26
  And of course, you know, they have also a heavy, discreet,
• 37:28
  very Britishly discreet presence in the Caribbean.
• 37:32
  And so they say this. I mean, and it's not that they
• 37:35
  say it. It was reported by CNN and there
• 37:37
  was no Downing 10 Downing St official denying it.
• 37:43
  So that's weird. Two weeks ago also, there was
• 37:46
  some weird pushback to I mean, Marco Rubio had to scold some
• 37:51
  scoops by Miami Herald and saying that these were these
• 37:55
  were fake news. It was a lie and you base the
• 37:58
  whole report on a lie or whatnot.
• 38:00
  But that could also mean that he he was doing damage control, for
• 38:03
  example, because he was the one who legal, you know, neocons
• 38:05
  style, Florida neocons style, which always have like a stint
• 38:08
  of Gloria Stefan to it. And or was it some push back
• 38:16
  from some liberals liberal section of this of this of spook
• 38:19
  world, you know, US empire spook world or five, I don't know.
• 38:23
  So those are that there are all these things moving and, and
• 38:27
  they are also maybe, you know, having a, an actual inference if
• 38:32
  all what we're saying is true, because there also has been an
• 38:35
  insane amount of spin. I mean, and, and, and it has got
• 38:39
  ingrained. There have been many reports.
• 38:41
  For example, one was from the New York Times regarding
• 38:46
  Venezuela was willing to, you know, cut off all the deals with
• 38:50
  China, Iran and Russia and give all those, those that access to
• 38:55
  the US in order to stop this. That's absolutely false.
• 38:58
  Then The Atlantic was saying that Maduro was negotiating,
• 39:02
  negotiating something like to bail out of power and also an
• 39:05
  immunity for him and his and his quote, UN quote, cronies to live
• 39:10
  a golden exile somewhere and leave the country alone or
• 39:12
  something, which is also spin. So you also have to deal with
• 39:15
  that later of all this. It's so it's too much, man.
• 39:19
  It's crazy how much it's going. Yeah.
• 39:20
  That's active propaganda. I mean, this is, that's a Azure
• 39:23
  prop. Azure prop.
• 39:26
  Yes, it's exactly. Designed to spread this
• 39:29
  information and destabilise. But this this lead me to the
• 39:34
  next question. But before that, not many people
• 39:37
  might even know there's British military presence in the
• 39:40
  Caribbean. I was.
• 39:42
  Actually, I was actually surprised when I travelled to
• 39:45
  Belize in like around 2000 O 4 and I when I saw British
• 39:50
  military presence in Belize and then I realised, OK, the Brits
• 39:55
  hasn't really left their colonies but the but what?
• 39:59
  What is the attitude of other Latin American countries towards
• 40:03
  this? By the way, regarding the the
• 40:05
  preview, not only the Brits, but the French and the Dutch as
• 40:08
  well, this is, I mean the Caribbean has also like an
• 40:11
  Article 5 territory kind of things, you know, regarding the
• 40:15
  NATO. But other countries it's yeah, I
• 40:20
  think for example, Tini, that has gone like been a very roller
• 40:25
  coaster move because there have been quite many people have been
• 40:28
  disturbed and upset with what with, with, with what it's going
• 40:32
  on on a social political level and also a, a humane one.
• 40:37
  I mean, some of their fellow countrymen has been killed and
• 40:41
  they stayed, they have, they're not involved in any of this kind
• 40:43
  of criminal activity. So that I think has had a very
• 40:48
  an important postback in Trinidad, I don't know how far.
• 40:51
  And I, you know, that doesn't mean that the government is
• 40:53
  stopping because it has become a very proactive 1.
• 40:55
  Sadly, the one from Pinon Tobago, which is, you know,
• 40:58
  it's, I don't know, it's very, it's from the, from northeast,
• 41:02
  northeastern Venezuela to Trinidad.
• 41:03
  It's like, I think it's like 40 nautical miles.
• 41:06
  I mean, it's very, very close. I might be mistaken, but it's a
• 41:09
  very, very short distance between Venezuela and Trinidad.
• 41:13
  That's why Trinidad is also part of the, of the equation, just as
• 41:17
  Guyana. And they've also tried to push
• 41:19
  Granada to allow the US to set up a radar station there without
• 41:26
  overly stadiums for Venezuela. But of course it is it's 100
• 41:29
  miles nautical miles or something from Granada to
• 41:32
  Venezuela. So there's a lot of pushing and
• 41:34
  shoving and driving with the Caribbean countries, but the
• 41:37
  mood is different. I mean, Barbados is against
• 41:39
  this. Jamaica has also said something
• 41:41
  milder and Tiguan Barbuda has also been against them.
• 41:44
  They, they condemn it. They actually the case of for
• 41:48
  example, Martinica, they offer themselves to mediate in the
• 41:52
  situation because this is undermining the declaration of
• 41:55
  the peace declaration from tomb from 2012 throughout the region.
• 41:59
  And also the Platte local declaration from the six from
• 42:02
  late, early, yes, late 60s, which declared that no nuclear
• 42:06
  weapons which should be in, in the Western Hemisphere, in
• 42:10
  South, in the Caribbean and South America.
• 42:13
  Then you have Colombia right now.
• 42:15
  Yes, go ahead. Go ahead.
• 42:18
  Sorry, I I was going to just going to ask you about the other
• 42:20
  big Latin. American countries by exactly,
• 42:22
  exactly. Yeah, yeah.
• 42:24
  I mean, the Caribbean is important this then and it's
• 42:27
  crazy how important it actually is regardless how quote unquote
• 42:30
  small it is. I mean, it's, it's highly
• 42:32
  strategic. That's why there's so many
• 42:34
  people and in the Caribbean currently, of course.
• 42:37
  And you know also well, and then you have Colombia now, which
• 42:42
  clearly has, there's a shift there because of the government.
• 42:45
  It has and there must be also, and also the mood.
• 42:48
  It's not, I don't think it's unified in one direct specific
• 42:51
  direction right now. Maybe some people can worry
• 42:53
  because Petro's getting them into trouble or not.
• 42:56
  There are elections coming next year.
• 42:57
  So that's also been quite well. I don't know how fragile it is
• 43:03
  or how successful it's going to be The, the, the, the successor
• 43:06
  of Petro, which is Ivan Cepedro, a far more talented than
• 43:09
  intelligent guy, by the way. I'm not saying Petro's stupid,
• 43:12
  but I mean, this guy's even, it's even smarter.
• 43:15
  So that also, I don't know what happens there, but Colombia
• 43:18
  could be a pivoting element whatever happens with these
• 43:24
  elections or if we're cool and Sous or something.
• 43:28
  But officially it's against, of course, it's supporting
• 43:31
  Venezuela. And it's nice also to see how
• 43:33
  the Bolivarian spirit, which is also very important here, you
• 43:37
  know, about nationalism, about actual nationalism that maybe
• 43:39
  many people in the West basically don't understand, also
• 43:42
  has a saying here. And Colombia seems to like
• 43:47
  finally manifesting it after a very long sleep, you know, And
• 43:52
  then you have players like Ecuador or Argentina, which is
• 43:56
  even more crazy. That's.
• 43:59
  Just on the on the Colombian thing, I think some of my
• 44:02
  English audience might not understand this is United States
• 44:06
  is bringing back the grand Colombia, the vision of Simon
• 44:10
  Simone. Bolivar, right?
• 44:13
  Exactly because Colombia and and and and Venezuela used to be 1
• 44:17
  country under Simone Bolivar and US, through its aggressive
• 44:22
  policies to both Colombia and Venezuela, is finally bringing
• 44:26
  back the Grand Columbia back together.
• 44:29
  But yeah. Yeah, man, like a great remark,
• 44:31
  man, that was important. And that's exactly it.
• 44:33
  I mean, it kind of like blowback is going to bring, we could
• 44:37
  bring wonderful things for us and very bad things for them in
• 44:40
  that sense, you know, who knows? That's I, I mean, that's
• 44:43
  actually a possibility. I mean, it runs it, it, it has,
• 44:47
  there's something, there's a deeper layer in this and it's
• 44:50
  going to be able to, if we, if we go through this and we're
• 44:53
  able to, to overcome it, something new will happen in, in
• 44:56
  that sense, I think. And it has to do with that and
• 44:58
  it has to do with that history, which is a whole different
• 45:01
  subject. You have Brazil also, which is a
• 45:03
  big player, but it's quite lukewarm.
• 45:05
  But they also condemn this. And you have Argentina on the
• 45:07
  other side, which with melee upfront and with, I mean it's
• 45:12
  now a Black Rock Zionist colony currently.
• 45:16
  And so and they're very proactive on the other side.
• 45:18
  Marco Rubio at the early stages and tried to create some sort of
• 45:23
  coalition of the willing bringing over Argentina, Guyana,
• 45:28
  Trinidad and Tobago and some Central American countries like
• 45:31
  Panama, of course, the Panama, Ghana and what and what we saw
• 45:37
  regionally regarding China as well, of course and China and
• 45:41
  BlackRock by the way. I mean, there's a difference.
• 45:44
  So that's how intense this is. Yeah, China just rejected the
• 45:49
  deal for BlackRock to take over the canal ports because exactly
• 45:53
  those two, those canal, the the the the ports on both sides of
• 45:57
  the canal were operated by a Hong Kong company, Hutchinson
• 46:00
  Wong PO. And and the United States have
• 46:03
  been put a lot of pressure on the billionaire owner of
• 46:06
  Hutchinson Wampa, the Kaixin, to sell it to BlackRock.
• 46:10
  That deal almost went through and then finally Chinese
• 46:13
  government put its foot down. It's like, no, no, no, you know,
• 46:17
  listen to us. We are, you might be a
• 46:19
  billionaire, you might own those companies, but we going to make
• 46:23
  the call. You are not going to sell it to
• 46:25
  BlackRock. Otherwise all your business in
• 46:27
  China are going to be blacklisted.
• 46:29
  So that, that, so China veto that, that deal.
• 46:32
  And, and, and this is because they understand the, the reason
• 46:36
  US want control of those Panamium, Panamium ports is
• 46:40
  because then US will have a veto on China's trade with Latin
• 46:45
  America. I mean, that's a whole, that's a
• 46:46
  whole point. This is how that's why they're
• 46:48
  crying about Chinese influence in Latin America.
• 46:51
  They want to curtail it. And and that This is why Trump
• 46:54
  want to put a a tariff on any goods coming out of the Chiang
• 46:58
  Kai port in Peru, because trying to help that port.
• 47:02
  Yeah. So, So, yeah, yeah.
• 47:05
  This is this again. This call goes back to the Neo
• 47:08
  Monroe Doctrine strategy, trying to preserve the West Hemisphere
• 47:12
  for exclusive US influence and. You know, you know, regarding
• 47:18
  that, if we get, even if we, if we go even further in that in
• 47:20
  the, with regarding the Monroe Doctrine, it's even more like
• 47:24
  the Roseville corollary, that would be this one that's being
• 47:27
  deepened. And you know also because, you
• 47:30
  know, the Monroe Doctrine, of course, by James Monroe, 1823
• 47:32
  and so forth, America for the Americans basically, which is,
• 47:36
  yeah, not allowing any of the European powers to to yeah, to
• 47:41
  have a bigger influence in the in the hemispheric affairs, of
• 47:46
  course, with a thin veil decoration, say like we're we
• 47:50
  all friends now, aren't we all friends?
• 47:52
  You know, that kind of approach. But there's this extension to
• 47:55
  it, which is a Roosevelt called corollary from Theodore
• 47:58
  Roosevelt, which basically says something like, but if the any
• 48:03
  countries unable to behave and unable to sort out their own
• 48:07
  business and we're going to we have the right to sort it out
• 48:11
  ourselves. So it this also in the
• 48:15
  historical area, it's like a big comeback of Roosevelt in
• 48:20
  politics, not only in the region because of which, but also
• 48:23
  worldwide. I, I, I would argue it's
• 48:27
  Roosevelt politic was A twist because Roosevelt is famously
• 48:32
  saying, you know, speak softly but carry a giant stick.
• 48:36
  What's the Trump administration is doing right now is talk very
• 48:39
  loudly and carrying an increasingly diminishing stick.
• 48:44
  That is a difference with Teddy. Yes, well, the, the, the 100
• 48:48
  years difference there's I mean, and you know, first as a tragedy
• 48:53
  and then as a farce. I mean, it stands here just as
• 48:56
  perfectly. You know, it fits nicely because
• 48:58
  it in and also regarding Panama in the middle of this and rules.
• 49:01
  But and all we're talking about is if you know, Panama was
• 49:04
  basically in set as independent from Colombia after the 1000
• 49:10
  wars. They on AUSS ship and forgot the
• 49:13
  name, but the document was written by JP Morgan, you know,
• 49:18
  so that kind of and and it is that approach and it also have
• 49:22
  it also has some resonances with, you know, filibustering
• 49:26
  the antebellum stuff. More of the manifest destiny
• 49:29
  moment from the US. It also shows how how
• 49:33
  intertwined all this is, all this dynamics are are there as
• 49:38
  alive as they were 100 years from now.
• 49:41
  They were just dormant in a sense.
• 49:44
  So what is the attitude of Brazil?
• 49:47
  Brazil is one of the the the biggest countries in Latin
• 49:50
  America and and for for some odd reason Brazil has some kind of
• 49:54
  testy relationship with government of Venezuela.
• 49:58
  What is the current stance during this confrontation?
• 50:03
  No, it's a very principal one up to this point, you know, but up
• 50:08
  to this point, there's a, it's a principle one Lula tried to
• 50:11
  offer himself to mediate between the US and and Venezuela.
• 50:15
  That didn't go too well. They are, of course they could,
• 50:19
  They also condemn the, the means and the, the extrajudicial
• 50:23
  killings and so forth. But I don't know they can
• 50:27
  always, the problem with Rasina, from my point of view, of
• 50:30
  course, is that they can always go further and be more decisive
• 50:34
  in the interaction. And they don't, they don't do
• 50:36
  that. Some people will usually blame
• 50:40
  Itamarati, which is how they call the foreign Ministry, which
• 50:42
  is a very, very powerful entity in Venezuelan politics in
• 50:46
  general. And of course, obviously on the
• 50:48
  foreign policy, it has been Itamarati's insiders, the one
• 50:51
  that actually prevented Venezuela and Nicaragua to join
• 50:54
  BRICS, to become BRICS of service in Kasan a year ago in
• 51:00
  2024, October 2024 or November, somewhere around that date.
• 51:04
  So and it's contradictory. And also they were very, very
• 51:08
  close to the Democrats. That was also a big problem.
• 51:13
  And you have also said Samarine, which is the advisor, one of the
• 51:17
  main advisors of Lula, who was back in the day, he was Minister
• 51:21
  of Defence and also was a foreign minister also who by now
• 51:27
  it's, I don't know if I don't know if there's, if something
• 51:30
  has actually changed or this has been his true callers all the
• 51:33
  time. But for example, for example, he
• 51:35
  has been quite vocal about, yeah, we use bricks, but we all
• 51:38
  use bricks to put pressure and to put a balance to the G20,
• 51:42
  which is our source of inspiration.
• 51:44
  And I'm quoting here, the last words are, I mean, they're
• 51:48
  verbatim, you know, that's what he said.
• 51:51
  So you have that problem there. That that's, that's a sense I
• 51:55
  got when I was talking with Brazilian journalist Pepe
• 51:59
  Escobar. I asked him, you know, what's
• 52:01
  the deal with between Brazil and Venezuela?
• 52:03
  And he was telling me it's not Lula, It's the people in Lula's
• 52:07
  government that's really, you know, trying to put a damper on
• 52:11
  the, on the relationship because they are, they're still a very
• 52:15
  strong kind of Leo liberal wing of in the, in the Brazilian
• 52:20
  government that, that lean toward United States, you know,
• 52:24
  despite, but that might change. But he at that time we, we spoke
• 52:28
  before the but he said that that might change because of tariff
• 52:32
  war and all that. Yeah, exactly.
• 52:35
  I mean, but my and Pepe's right. But I would add to some extent
• 52:40
  with her when it starts to when it ends to be the Intamara
• 52:45
  people and when it starts to be actually Lula, the one actually
• 52:48
  using these people to, you know, to do this.
• 52:50
  I mean, it's just a question. I mean, I'm not saying I know,
• 52:53
  but I do bring that question as well into this.
• 52:57
  And yeah, not only pro US in that sense, but also Liberal
• 53:01
  Democrat kind of, you know, proximity and when.
• 53:07
  And these are the positive result that you also have the
• 53:09
  proceeding left, which involves some, some I think.
• 53:14
  So it may or might be heretical about what I'm saying.
• 53:17
  But from a nationalist popular standard of very strong third
• 53:21
  world ish Communist Party with experienced in, in World War 2,
• 53:24
  by the way, fighting fascism and also in the French Resistance,
• 53:27
  it was a very strong Brazilian component.
• 53:29
  So it's so it's not just a simple wokey ish left.
• 53:35
  It has also Christian elements and so on.
• 53:37
  And that's actually the alliance that would have created by the
• 53:40
  PT afterwards during the dictatorship years and and so
• 53:45
  on. And suddenly it became more like
• 53:47
  an academic, you know, liberal kind of left in, in places of
• 53:53
  power that are important. But also you, you can't be asked
• 53:57
  that me with Brazil after they what they went through with all
• 54:00
  the lover chapter. It was insanely destructive of
• 54:05
  the, of the Brazilian power, power projection and smart power
• 54:11
  projection. You know, it really they, they
• 54:14
  hit him real, they hit Brazil really hard in that in that
• 54:17
  moment. And they were able to rollback a
• 54:19
  lot of Brazil's strength. And I think they even have the
• 54:23
  Lula governments have and they, they movement hasn't recovered
• 54:26
  completely from those blows because they were really hard.
• 54:30
  I mean, they barely made it back, which is good, of course,
• 54:34
  but also, so they have to, what I'm trying to say here is that
• 54:37
  it is for them, it's a very complex situation in the, in, in
• 54:41
  also the the correlation of strength, it's complicated.
• 54:45
  I mean, they also have very strong plays.
• 54:48
  But one more time, Carl, I think if something kinetic actually
• 54:52
  happens, some outliers are going to happen as well in Brazil and
• 54:57
  other places. I mean, they're going to go get
• 55:00
  to be afraid, freak out, react in some way or another.
• 55:02
  I can't predict, but it's not going to be predictable.
• 55:05
  That's not for us or for them. For them, I'm saying the United
• 55:10
  States in this sense. And that's a common feat to all
• 55:13
  these countries. The other one, which is very
• 55:15
  important to run like finish the whole tour, I guess it's Mexico.
• 55:20
  Mexico, which is also in a very vulnerable situation because of
• 55:24
  I mean like for the famous Porfirio Diaz called you know,
• 55:28
  Porfirio has the long, long standing dictator in the early,
• 55:32
  late 19th century, early 20s, which say poor Mexico, so far
• 55:38
  from God, from God, yeah and too close and so close to the United
• 55:42
  States. So yeah, but they have again
• 55:47
  they also have a government that has been quite well
• 55:50
  nationalistic and also and also had they had since I'm low since
• 55:57
  Lopez Obrador before Claudius time of the current president.
• 56:01
  It has taken a very interesting drive in like regarding
• 56:05
  sovereignty, regarding their own Estrada doctrine, which is, you
• 56:08
  know, a very dynamic pro hemispheric, non interventionist
• 56:13
  foreign policy. And this also has helped out
• 56:15
  also to reshape the pressure points to many countries and
• 56:20
  also the complexities that they're facing now inside the
• 56:23
  government. But I think Scheinbaum has been
• 56:25
  very smart, very clever and very graceful the way she's been
• 56:28
  playing this crazy ass tango with the United States.
• 56:33
  But they're also at the crossing.
• 56:35
  I mean, some people, many people.
• 56:37
  And this brings us back to the start of this call.
• 56:41
  They ruled out Mexico and they thought Venezuela might be
• 56:43
  better as a as a win regarding the whole narco narrative.
• 56:47
  You know, that also explains that because many people are
• 56:49
  actually more interested in engaging militarily with the
• 56:54
  cartels allegedly inside Mexico. But they said it was going to be
• 56:59
  even more costly than a Venezuelan intervention and the
• 57:02
  Venezuelan intervention being costly also a base.
• 57:05
  And we can go back once again for the first question to the
• 57:08
  elements that were at play at that moment.
• 57:10
  You don't have a win with China. You don't have a win with
• 57:13
  Russia, Ukraine. You don't have a complete win
• 57:16
  regarding Gaza or Iran in that sense.
• 57:20
  And you don't have an Epstein win either.
• 57:23
  You know, you have also not enough domestic wins and just
• 57:26
  lost an election, by the way, or not a lost an election.
• 57:29
  But there was a it was a well, it was a it was a I'm losing the
• 57:36
  word, I mean the prefabricated US word for this.
• 57:38
  But you know, it wasn't, it sounded the alarm.
• 57:41
  You know, they might buy anything, which is not that
• 57:42
  relevant. But the Democrats come back.
• 57:45
  Yeah. So all those things are also
• 57:49
  operating this. So they thought they would
• 57:50
  Venezuela could be an easy win. That's and it.
• 57:54
  And also, it also reminds you of that Michael Le Dean quote, the
• 57:58
  famous 1, you know, the early neocons that sometimes the US
• 58:02
  has to push around or something like that, push around a little
• 58:04
  confusion, show the world who's boss, which is also a very, a
• 58:10
  very bad analytical mistake, which I think has to bring
• 58:16
  another crazy element to the whole equation, Carl.
• 58:19
  And because there are very strong similarities between the
• 58:21
  two structurally, which is Nigeria in this in this moment.
• 58:27
  You know, Venezuela, it's drugs and terrorism, the merging of
• 58:31
  those paradigms. In the case of Nigeria,
• 58:34
  supposedly it's the Christian massacres by Boko Haram or other
• 58:39
  takfiri, you know, narco Islamic outfits.
• 58:45
  And it just so happens in both places, China has placed a lot
• 58:49
  of investment and that that and and and and both cases that US
• 58:52
  was freaking out about those Chinese investments.
• 58:56
  Yeah, exactly. Suddenly, suddenly United States
• 58:59
  need to do protect and serve and, and in both places, yeah.
• 59:03
  Yeah, exactly. I mean you have and also I mean
• 59:06
  Nigeria as Venezuela are both petrol states.
• 59:09
  They have very similar build up, you know, and how the and
• 59:15
  historical evolution, regardless of the also very different ones,
• 59:18
  you know, even in size, I mean, they're like almost the same
• 59:21
  size. Also.
• 59:22
  I think Venezuela is a big larger and but it's, it's like
• 59:26
  quite obscene in August. There's there are other
• 59:28
  elements, for example, which also relates to Venezuela's
• 59:31
  recovery also. And but I'm talking about
• 59:33
  Nigeria as as a way to explain it.
• 59:36
  You have the whole, you have this guy Dangote, you know, this
• 59:40
  a very powerful billionaire that had just built the refinery.
• 59:44
  It's the first time Nigeria is actually refining their own
• 59:46
  crude for their own consumption ever.
• 59:50
  You know, those are independent, very independent moves by yeah,
• 59:53
  but in this case by a very nationalist businessman who
• 59:55
  knows that well, he can keep up with his national feelings, you
• 59:59
  know, at the same time make a lot of good money.
• 1:00:02
  And that is also a problem there, I think.
• 1:00:05
  And you have another layer to this which is also geopolitical,
• 1:00:07
  I think, which is. The Muslims in Nigeria are the
• 1:00:12
  northern Nigerians, right? Right.
• 1:00:14
  Like the house, predominantly. And what do you have at the
• 1:00:17
  other side of the border? You have Niger and you have the
• 1:00:22
  Sahel and you have the houses at the other part of the border.
• 1:00:24
  So it goes in many directions with the same purpose, I might
• 1:00:29
  add, you know, and, and yeah, because it's based on very
• 1:00:33
  inaccurate, bogus reasons. Yes, Boko Haram is killing
• 1:00:35
  Christians, but also it's killing Shias.
• 1:00:38
  It is also clean, clean and also Sunni.
• 1:00:41
  They're killing everyone. So it's not it's.
• 1:00:44
  A Boko Haram and IAS situation in the host Sahel region is
• 1:00:48
  caused by United States when they overthrew Kadap.
• 1:00:51
  In the first time. In the first time.
• 1:00:54
  Yeah, there's all these, they supported all these terrorists
• 1:00:57
  to overthrow jihadi and then all these terrorists got their hands
• 1:01:00
  on the, on the other web arsenals of, of Libya and then
• 1:01:05
  flooded into the Sahel region. And now suddenly this the whole
• 1:01:10
  Sahel region is destabilised and suddenly the US and French
• 1:01:13
  military have more reasons to deploy there to serve and
• 1:01:18
  protect. Yeah, it it's, it's the cycle
• 1:01:21
  just goes on. And And yeah, but and now this
• 1:01:24
  brings back another, another colourful element to this.
• 1:01:28
  We're talking about, about, about, you know, what happens in
• 1:01:33
  fundamentalism in al Qaeda, right?
• 1:01:37
  And now you have. Former head of Al Qaeda Syria
• 1:01:41
  just met Trump in the White House.
• 1:01:43
  This. Guy had a 10. $1,000,000 bounty
• 1:01:46
  on him as late as last year. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:01:50
  And, and The funny thing is that Pete Hegseth, the war secretary
• 1:01:55
  reality showman, says that the, that the drug, the Norco
• 1:02:02
  terrorists are the new Al Qaeda and we're going to kill you and
• 1:02:04
  we're going to hunt you down. And, you know, America, Fuck
• 1:02:07
  yeah. And FAFAO and, and everything.
• 1:02:10
  And at the same time, they're receiving the actual thing, you
• 1:02:15
  know, the actual guy that at the Oval Office.
• 1:02:20
  I mean, it's just insane. Because another easy conclusion
• 1:02:25
  is that there's not, this is not even post truth.
• 1:02:29
  This is just fuck you reality. This is nihilism at its best.
• 1:02:34
  And nothing matters any more than the urgent need to face
• 1:02:42
  decline, the threats of decline, you know, and that's of course,
• 1:02:47
  that's also part of it, which also brings, it also has like
• 1:02:50
  this all shows a very cognitive, 1A cognitive decline going on at
• 1:02:55
  the same time with an empire and how they see things and how they
• 1:02:58
  can see the solutions. And there's no other more
• 1:03:02
  dangerous element of the client that the Chinese presence in in
• 1:03:05
  the Caribbean and the multipolar presence in general.
• 1:03:09
  And that's why they have to rebuild the I'm just going to
• 1:03:13
  say one more time and say this all the time in each and every
• 1:03:15
  interview of the hemispheric wall, you know, push out all
• 1:03:18
  these players and reassure and re bring all the industry and
• 1:03:23
  their capitals and what not in order to be able to survive, you
• 1:03:28
  know, to survive. Basically they ask the entity
• 1:03:31
  they think they are right now. I mean in order to survive, in
• 1:03:39
  order for the American primacy to survive.
• 1:03:42
  I mean American average. American can still.
• 1:03:45
  Survive without an empire, not not a prime.
• 1:03:48
  Exactly just. Like the like the British after
• 1:03:52
  the giving up the the the British Empire, average American
• 1:03:55
  can't also have survive and have good life.
• 1:03:58
  But for for the military industrial complex to survive,
• 1:04:02
  they must have primacy. They must pivot from one war to
• 1:04:06
  another and the perpetual war must go on.
• 1:04:09
  And I think they just think to pick Venezuela because they
• 1:04:12
  thought Venezuela might be a low hanging fruit, you know, because
• 1:04:16
  that Trump, that's what Trump like to do.
• 1:04:19
  Trump like to pick low hanging fruit.
• 1:04:20
  But I think this time they will find themselves pick a rock
• 1:04:24
  instead. I mean, it's not Venezuela.
• 1:04:27
  It's not a low hang apple. It's it's a rock.
• 1:04:30
  It's a granite. They're going to they're going
• 1:04:32
  to kick it and then hurt their feet.
• 1:04:34
  I think that's what's going to happen.
• 1:04:36
  Yeah, hopefully, hopefully, you know, and then and then I think
• 1:04:41
  to sum it up, it brings another dimensional layer, which is
• 1:04:47
  because the Gaza paradigm, it's also now it's operating in, in,
• 1:04:52
  in the Western Hemisphere to a different level.
• 1:04:55
  Not only on the obvious, as in the the low, insanely low value
• 1:05:01
  of, of life, you know, of human life.
• 1:05:05
  And, and they mean the legal implications of this.
• 1:05:07
  They call it, they call it all these these sea people who have
• 1:05:11
  been killed in the, in speedboats, in small boats.
• 1:05:13
  They call it unprivileged belligerents.
• 1:05:16
  You know, I mean, you don't have a, you're nothing and you're
• 1:05:21
  basically and and you know this. This is just a cover.
• 1:05:24
  This is just a cover for very illegality of U.S.
• 1:05:28
  Navy killing people because this is not, this is not legal
• 1:05:31
  anywhere US. This is I mean 2 to enter.
• 1:05:35
  Even if we accept their narrative, these are drug
• 1:05:38
  smuggling boats which are bogus. It's U.S.
• 1:05:41
  Navy Coast Guard's job to intercept those boats.
• 1:05:46
  Coming. Into the US waters, it's not US
• 1:05:49
  Navy's job going to other people's waters or international
• 1:05:54
  waters to kill people. That's that's that there's no
• 1:05:58
  laws that allows for that kind of thing.
• 1:06:00
  So so. No.
• 1:06:01
  And the other thing, which is I think it's and also has
• 1:06:03
  dangerous regarding gas and regarding what's and yeah,
• 1:06:07
  Lebanon and regarding Israel in that sense also, it's now how
• 1:06:11
  this all high tech stuff and how the surveillance stuff is also
• 1:06:14
  being used here, you know, as in the tech Bros also taking up
• 1:06:18
  their own their own share of this situation.
• 1:06:21
  You know, it's not easy to, it's not hard, sorry to imagine where
• 1:06:26
  the objective banks are being or how they are being organised,
• 1:06:29
  how they have been analyse how the information is being picked
• 1:06:32
  up in order to to quote unquote, plan what they're going to do or
• 1:06:37
  these attacks or whatever. I mean, and then there's another
• 1:06:40
  obvious reasons, just like Exxon and other and other people,
• 1:06:43
  which is these oligarchs needs as much energy as possible in
• 1:06:47
  order to keep the edge on wherever they're actually able
• 1:06:52
  to keep the edge regarding AI and so on.
• 1:06:55
  And also, of course, population control, this has to do with
• 1:06:59
  that as well, Carl, you know, it, it, it's, it's like the
• 1:07:03
  final layer of this. I think that you might hit the
• 1:07:09
  nail on the head there, because all the Telicon Silicon Valley
• 1:07:13
  tech bro who, who essentially took over the White House with,
• 1:07:15
  you know, Peter Thiel and and, and Andy, Elon Musk and the and
• 1:07:20
  these guys, yeah, Palantir, which is basically embedded in
• 1:07:24
  the US government right now. They are designing AI weapons
• 1:07:28
  for, for US to wage war. So they're fully embedded.
• 1:07:32
  Yeah. They're, they're part of the
• 1:07:33
  military industrial complex now. It's, it's not, not just
• 1:07:37
  military industrial complex, it's the Mickey Mouse, the
• 1:07:39
  military intelligence, industrial, academic
• 1:07:44
  congressional complex. And they all have a vet vested
• 1:07:50
  interest to grow the AI bubble, which means to feed the AI
• 1:07:54
  bubble, they need to build more data centres.
• 1:07:56
  And those data centre needs to feed a lot and lots of energy.
• 1:08:02
  And where's those energy going to come from?
• 1:08:05
  And Trump has already decided, you know, we're, we're going to
• 1:08:08
  ditch the whole renewable thing. Where's this going to go?
• 1:08:11
  4 hydrocarbons. That means US must get his hands
• 1:08:16
  on all the hydrocarbon resources in its hemisphere.
• 1:08:20
  You know, Venezuela has a world's largest oil reserve and,
• 1:08:23
  and it just so happens that Venezuelan crude matches
• 1:08:27
  perfectly to the US refineries in the southern coast and, and,
• 1:08:33
  and they can afford to have those Venezuelan crude go to
• 1:08:37
  China. For them, it's a 0 sum
• 1:08:40
  mentality. If China gets their hands on
• 1:08:43
  Venezuelan oil, that's less oil for for US.
• 1:08:46
  So we can't have. That absolutely.
• 1:08:48
  I mean, and yeah, you also said something that's in that people
• 1:08:52
  are not that aware of, but they the whole, there's a huge and
• 1:08:55
  very important refining circuit in southern, central, southern
• 1:09:00
  US that relies exclusively on Venezuelan heavy crude.
• 1:09:04
  So you do have that. I mean, you can't, it's not like
• 1:09:07
  we're not going to, we're just going to substitute with
• 1:09:09
  something else. We're just going to do
• 1:09:10
  something, you know, you can't. It's exclusively designed for
• 1:09:13
  this. So yeah, I mean, and also think
• 1:09:16
  this is like the bad, the bad term situation with us.
• 1:09:19
  But think about what's had just happened in what, what's already
• 1:09:21
  going on in Bolivia, in Argentina and what just happened
• 1:09:24
  in Bolivia with the electoral defeat from the, of the, of the
• 1:09:28
  massacre movement in, in government.
• 1:09:32
  This is about lithium and it's also about finishing pushing out
• 1:09:36
  the Chinese and the Russians and any other player that's not the
• 1:09:39
  US. Because the northern triangle
• 1:09:41
  there, the triangle there between the lithium triangle
• 1:09:44
  between Chile, Argentina and Bolivia's like the biggest
• 1:09:47
  deposits, at least with the nearest ones at least, you know.
• 1:09:52
  So that's also, that's also part of the reshaping.
• 1:09:54
  But they can do that by other means.
• 1:09:56
  Electoral defeat, complete and full control of the government.
• 1:10:00
  We're just placing a a lunatic at at its helm and just bailing
• 1:10:05
  him out as much as he need, they need.
• 1:10:08
  So it's the same and it's the same threat, the same Russian
• 1:10:11
  and the same purpose. But I would say, I would say US
• 1:10:15
  is fighting a, a battle of reaction.
• 1:10:19
  They're, they're lashing out because they see what, what they
• 1:10:22
  see as a pink washing of Latin America, you know, always all
• 1:10:26
  these leftist government popping up everywhere from Mexico to to
• 1:10:31
  Colombia, all these traditional US allies, quote unquote.
• 1:10:36
  And then they This is why they must pop up Millie and must give
• 1:10:41
  him $40 billion because that's one of the last poster child for
• 1:10:47
  US liberalism. I mean, you know, for, for, for,
• 1:10:50
  for Zionism. So they must not let Millie
• 1:10:53
  fail. But but I think it's this is
• 1:10:57
  ongoing thing, of course. But I think overall, you know,
• 1:11:01
  US is fighting a lot. They're, they're, they're
• 1:11:05
  fighting the tide of the history, the progress, the, the
• 1:11:08
  trend of progress because there's, there's Latin America
• 1:11:12
  has such long history with United States and they, they're
• 1:11:14
  frankly sick and tired of it. Absolutely.
• 1:11:17
  And you know, I was thinking now you mentioned all this, I was
• 1:11:20
  thinking something else. You know Rubio and his reports,
• 1:11:23
  especially the made in China 2025 reports what he did in
• 1:11:26
  29/20/18 and they won last year. Nine years later, when he even
• 1:11:30
  admits there are several of the 12 strategic areas that they
• 1:11:34
  that he focuses on the well, the the 12 strategic areas of of the
• 1:11:38
  made in made in China 2025. And there he already admits and
• 1:11:43
  in some it's irreversible. In some they're lagging behind
• 1:11:48
  and in some of these, they they still keep some of the edge.
• 1:11:51
  But The funny thing is, and it's something that repeats itself in
• 1:11:54
  several articles and his last book, the most recent book, and
• 1:11:57
  also on law and piece of pieces of legislation is that this
• 1:12:02
  losing of the this loss of edge is losing of the edge we're
• 1:12:07
  going to bring. If we don't do something, we're
• 1:12:09
  going to have a century of humiliation.
• 1:12:12
  They use, he uses, he exactly uses it that way.
• 1:12:15
  I mean, of course Global Times picked it up at some point and
• 1:12:18
  said Marco Rubio, the head was like, Marco Rubio is a political
• 1:12:21
  weirdo, you know, because of because of framing it in that
• 1:12:25
  sense. You know what?
• 1:12:26
  I think the United States needs its own central humiliation,
• 1:12:30
  too, to counteract some of that hubris.
• 1:12:34
  I mean, like, because right now it's because US still, it's full
• 1:12:40
  of hubris. It cannot see its own
• 1:12:43
  shortcomings and the problems. That's why it's keep on lashing
• 1:12:46
  out at the world now with the with the real century of
• 1:12:50
  humiliation that might finally bring on some self reflection by
• 1:12:56
  its elite, you know? They humbled it up.
• 1:12:59
  Exactly. That's it.
• 1:13:02
  That's true. You're right about that.
• 1:13:04
  Completely right. And I mean, it's very well
• 1:13:07
  earned by the way. It didn't have to happen this
• 1:13:10
  way, you know, But that's the thing about Herbies, like you
• 1:13:13
  just said. It's self inflicted.
• 1:13:17
  A lot of the US internal problem is all self inflicted.
• 1:13:22
  And The thing is right now the empire is coming home to roost.
• 1:13:28
  You know, the way that US used to treat people of Latin
• 1:13:33
  America, now the US elite is treating their own citizens the
• 1:13:37
  same way that the US elite is looking at the average people of
• 1:13:41
  US also as the resource for like raw material for resource
• 1:13:47
  extraction to extract to the 1%. So, you know, they, they.
• 1:13:52
  Yeah. Yeah, it's it's colonialism one
• 1:13:54
  O 1. I mean, and if if you if you,
• 1:14:00
  it's always a very, very Seminole document.
• 1:14:02
  What a messe, the Martin Aiken poet and writer wrote back in it
• 1:14:07
  was, I think it was the 50s. It's called the discourse on
• 1:14:12
  colonialism, which one of the basic the most important
• 1:14:15
  premises was it was all right as long as Hitler was in, you know,
• 1:14:20
  southern Southwest Africa or Indochina or China itself or
• 1:14:25
  Latin America, wherever. But then it come when suddenly
• 1:14:31
  several years afterwards, Hitler was basically knocking your door
• 1:14:35
  because that's the same Hitler that was outside, you know, the
• 1:14:38
  doing what doing what they did. This is the same principle 11
• 1:14:41
  more time and based on the same rationale and the same urgency.
• 1:14:45
  So it's it's devastating how those things actually hold up.
• 1:14:48
  So, so strongly. But at the same times it has all
• 1:14:52
  this, I mean we have an hour already, an hour and 15 minutes
• 1:14:56
  of complexities to it. I mean, how many kaleidoscopical
• 1:15:00
  elements It has to admit maybe because we just big nerds on
• 1:15:04
  this and we're following each and every nook and cranny we can
• 1:15:06
  see. But but it shows you how
• 1:15:08
  complex, but at the same way how devastating simple this, all
• 1:15:11
  this. And of course the end, one of
• 1:15:14
  the final stages of colonialism is what's it's self infliction,
• 1:15:17
  It's it's self harm. It's what's happening right now.
• 1:15:20
  Yeah, imperial, yeah, imperialism is what the final
• 1:15:25
  stage of capitalism, right. I mean like we are we are
• 1:15:29
  getting to the to the very late stage capitalism here in US.
• 1:15:35
  And this has been a fascinating, fascinating conversation.
• 1:15:38
  I can geek out on this with you for for hours, but I like to
• 1:15:43
  respect your time. We I definitely would like to
• 1:15:46
  have you back because. Exactly.
• 1:15:52
  Yeah, it could be completely different.
• 1:15:55
  You know, it could be quite different than the next time we
• 1:15:57
  just have another talk. It actually is.
• 1:16:00
  I mean, it was already we, we, we, we talked two months ago and
• 1:16:04
  now it's very different. And and maybe we can do a quote,
• 1:16:07
  multi quote Monty Python, you know, and then for now for
• 1:16:10
  something completely different, you know, that could happen so
• 1:16:13
  easily. Yeah, well, we, I, I, well,
• 1:16:17
  let's, let's, let's hope for the best.
• 1:16:19
  And, and thank you very much, Diego, for making your time to,
• 1:16:24
  to speak to our audience. And I, I, I mean it when I say I
• 1:16:28
  very much would like to have you back in not so distant future to
• 1:16:33
  continue to discuss the ongoing US aggression toward an Israela,
• 1:16:37
  toward Latin America. Before you go, if people want to
• 1:16:41
  follow you on social media, where, where would they go?
• 1:16:44
  Where would they go? Yeah, first of all, they should
• 1:16:48
  visit the the site Mission verdadmisionverdad.com Mission
• 1:16:56
  Verdad transmission in Spanish. It's mostly in Spanish, but I
• 1:17:00
  think any decent AI translator can translate it quite not quite
• 1:17:03
  neatly myself, I'm on Twitter. They they also care.
• 1:17:07
  I think that's like the most go to place regardless of how
• 1:17:10
  inactive I seem to be there. And we also have Mission, but
• 1:17:13
  that whole has also a Telegram channel.
• 1:17:15
  You can you can look it for mission, but that which is also
• 1:17:17
  very, very active in Spanish most of the time.
• 1:17:20
  But it's very useful as well to follow especially.
• 1:17:23
  Yeah, this. It's a spanosphere, you know.
• 1:17:27
  So if you those are the go to places.
• 1:17:33
  Well, everyone followed Diego because he's the foremost expert
• 1:17:38
  on what's actually going on, on the ground in Latin America and
• 1:17:42
  we will have him on the back of the shows very soon.
• 1:17:46
  Thank you everyone for tuning in and come to you next time.
• 1:17:50
  Bye bye.