Latest / Abbey the Podcast Lady / How to Gamify Your Business and Make Entrepreneurship Fun with Paul Pape

Transcript

How to Gamify Your Business and Make Entrepreneurship Fun with Paul Pape · Abbey the Podcast Lady

0:00
Thank you. Hello and welcome to another episode
0:06
of Abby the Podcast Lady. Today I am so excited.
0:10
My new friend Paul is joining us and we met through
0:13
the Podmatch platform. You've heard me mention
0:15
it before. It is a great tool if you're looking
0:17
to get some really cool guests on your podcast.
0:20
Paul, thank you so much for joining me today.
0:22
Well, thanks for having me, Abby. I'm looking
0:23
forward to the chat. Should be fun. I am so excited
0:26
to get into your business, your podcast, everything
0:29
you do because I'm just going to nerd out for
0:32
a second here. I work with a... creative marketing
0:35
company on their show it's called behind the
0:37
brand and so i've just learned so much about
0:40
really good marketing and you have just this
0:43
beautiful brand that you've built that is so
0:46
cohesive it looks so good your website is amazing
0:49
even down to the backdrop of your video call
0:52
right now it is also on brand so give me like
0:55
a 10 000 foot overview who are you what do you
0:57
do i am paul pape i'm known as santa for nerds
1:00
that's my other job i'm a designer and fabricator
1:03
custom collectibles for companies like Disney,
1:04
Universal, but also for people all around the
1:06
world. And when doing that, I started getting
1:08
asked a lot of questions. I was on Twitch for
1:10
a while. I don't know if you're familiar with
1:11
the platform, but most of us are. And I was a
1:13
creative on Twitch, not a gamer. And so I would
1:15
sit at my desk for about six hours a day, five
1:17
days a week, and just make art and then talk
1:19
to people. And what I found was that there was
1:21
a lot of creatives out there who really wanted
1:23
to have a business and had no idea what they
1:25
were doing. And so I would answer the questions
1:26
as best I could. And I did that for about six
1:28
years. And then what I realized is that a lot
1:30
of creatives don't understand business. all and
1:32
when you start talking in business terminology
1:34
it's just right over their head it doesn't mesh
1:36
and i was actually working with a client and
1:37
they were gamers one of the guys in the business
1:39
actually used to work for world warcraft like
1:41
blizzard and then they were running a company
1:43
where they manufactured little dragons and they
1:45
were just selling dragons to everybody they had
1:47
been in business for about 13 years but they
1:48
were grossing a lot of money but not netting
1:50
anything and they brought me in to see if i could
1:52
help and what i realized was that they had zero
1:54
idea how to be a business but they really understood
1:57
the creative side and unfortunately that's kind
1:59
of like been my background as well like i've
2:01
got an MFA and they taught me all the skills.
2:03
They didn't tell you anything about how to do
2:05
anything. And so I was actually meeting with
2:07
them in person and we were talking and I'm like,
2:08
all right, what does everybody do here in this
2:09
business? And there's three of them. And they
2:11
said, oh, we do everything all together. I'm
2:12
like, well, that's the best way to ruin a business.
2:14
So let's talk about what your core responsibilities
2:16
are. And so they told me what they each person
2:18
did. I said, okay, how about tomorrow? And I
2:20
was just spitballing here. And I was like, let's
2:21
come back and I'm going to play Dungeons and
2:23
Dragons business edition. And what we're going
2:24
to do is we're going to sit down and we're going
2:25
to play a role playing game. But instead of being
2:27
like a wizard or a warrior, you're going to be
2:29
your role in the business. business and instead
2:31
of fighting monsters we're gonna fight challenges
2:33
that you face in a business and so we sat down
2:35
for about four or six hours and we played and
2:38
they had character sheets they had the whole
2:40
nine yards and we went and every encounter was
2:42
a monster but it was like oh i'm the scope creep
2:45
and i'm gonna be the guy who like overtakes all
2:46
of your time and effort you're gonna start earning
2:48
less money how do you defeat this so we sat and
2:50
played and then at the end of it the ceo of the
2:52
business was like is this what business is because
2:54
i think i finally understand it and it seems
2:56
fun i'm like yes yes it is and that was kind
2:59
of the impetus of gamified business was that
3:01
why are we trying to treat like this business
3:04
as a language and we all have to learn it but
3:05
why do we have to learn a new language why don't
3:08
we just speak it in a language that we already
3:09
understand i realized that most creative people
3:12
love to game so why not just take the rules of
3:15
gaming and apply it to business and that was
3:17
really where gamified business came about what
3:19
a genius idea because i fall into that category
3:23
myself i'm a creative who my business started
3:26
kind of on accident so i was a radio dj left
3:29
that industry started a podcast and then just
3:31
it snowballed into the people I was having on
3:33
they wanted a podcast too but they didn't know
3:35
how to do it so then I was doing it for them
3:37
and so just accidentally turned into this business
3:39
I never set out to be a business owner but here
3:42
I am and now I sit in on things and people are
3:45
saying words like scope creep and KPI and ROI
3:48
and I'm like I just want to make podcasts Right,
3:52
exactly. And when you talk about things like,
3:54
you know, I say ROAS, that's my favorite one.
3:55
And they're like, is that rodent of unusual size?
3:57
I'm like, no, that's from princess bride, but
3:59
you're my people. So actually figure out what
4:02
this actually means. And so, yeah, we break all
4:03
of that term. Like ROAS for me is a great one
4:06
to explain to people because it's like going
4:07
to see a bulletin board or like in the town hall,
4:10
like the town meeting square where people are
4:12
posting, Hey, I'm an adventurer. Do you need
4:14
me to kill some monsters? And they're like, yeah,
4:15
okay. I understand that. And I'm like, well,
4:17
if you paid a gold piece to put it up there and
4:18
nobody paid you any gold during that month, would
4:20
you keep putting gold? onto that piece of paper?
4:22
Like, no. I'm like, okay, there's your ROAS.
4:24
That's ROAS in a nutshell. Oh, okay. I get it.
4:27
So again, we don't need to learn a new language.
4:29
We just need to understand what the language
4:31
is, what all that means. I think that is such
4:33
a great way to go about it. Just like meeting
4:35
people where they're at. So is this something
4:38
you've taken to like a larger scale, like coaching
4:41
and speaking on this kind of thing? Like what's
4:43
kind of the progression of like, once you did
4:45
this once, what did it turn into next? Basically,
4:48
I became a consultant. What started out as a
4:50
coach. But I realized that my heart's not in
4:53
coaching. My heart is like an adventure. Come
4:56
in, slay the dragon and then bounce out. You
4:58
guys are good. All right. So that's really what
4:59
I want to do. So consulting seems to be where
5:01
I fit in more with that. So what I do is I meet
5:04
with companies and say, OK, so I can either do
5:06
the work for you and then leave, you know, kind
5:08
of teach you. But my preference is to like educate
5:10
you and then you have the skills and the powers
5:13
to be the hero of your own adventure. That's
5:15
the goal. And so I have all these books that
5:17
I've written that sit behind me here and they
5:19
all kind of go into a different. aspect of business
5:22
but it's that translation service so as a consultant
5:25
yes and then we do the podcast to kind of meet
5:27
new people who are doing the same adventure and
5:29
then like how they achieved it and then i do
5:32
workshops and those kind of things and the workshops
5:34
are my favorite part because we get to do live
5:36
versions so we play dungeons and dragons business
5:39
edition is what we do but we get to actually
5:40
like create your character which is you but then
5:43
we have class classes that everybody gets assigned
5:45
to but then we go out and we go looking for group
5:47
which is why this is looks like a tavern is because
5:49
when you're playing a role -playing game where
5:50
do you meet everybody at the tavern and i play
5:53
the barkeep and also the game master and so the
5:55
barkeep actually is the person who has all the
5:58
knowledge is the person who's like oh okay but
6:00
he doesn't want to he's not the leader he's not
6:02
the king of the kingdom he's just the guy's got
6:04
a lot of information so it's more of it's dangerous
6:06
outside take this as opposed to hey i'm going
6:08
to lead you through this adventure that is so
6:10
fun what's your history with dungeons and dragons
6:14
and gaming is this something you've done your
6:15
whole life i love when people ask me this question
6:17
because the answer was i played dungeons and
6:19
dragons between the ages of eight and 12 and
6:20
then never picked it up again. I played a lot
6:22
of video games and that kind of stuff, but I
6:24
love the idea of role -playing games. Now I have
6:26
three boys of my own and they started growing
6:29
up and we, I'm a storyteller, obviously I've
6:32
got to be able to be in this role. And so I would
6:34
constantly be telling them stories. And then
6:36
eventually they're like, hey, let's play some
6:37
games. And so I just make some stuff up. And
6:39
that's the great thing about role -playing games
6:40
is that you don't have to follow a very strict
6:43
rule book. You just have to let your players
6:44
know that there are rules and it's just like
6:47
business. It's the same thing. And so now my
6:50
kids actually, they make up D &D games themselves,
6:52
but the idea behind role -playing games has been
6:54
something that I've had since a kid, but it's
6:56
not something that I actively pursue anymore.
6:59
I think mostly because it's just so time -consuming.
7:00
I'd rather play video games. Yeah, video games
7:03
are easier to pick up and put down when you need
7:05
to, especially if you're parenting. Like you
7:07
got your hands full enough with that and then
7:08
to be running all this on top of it, that's a
7:10
very full life. Yeah, absolutely. But it's fun.
7:13
Now, the way that it translates though, it's
7:15
like for me, role -playing, like my life is.
7:17
a role playing game. I love what I do from being
7:19
an artist to doing this to all the ventures that
7:22
I have in my life. It is an adventure for me.
7:24
And that's how I like to pursue it so that it
7:26
no longer becomes the slog that a lot of people
7:28
think that business should be. And, you know,
7:29
everything's a role playing game. And so that's
7:31
the whole point of this is to show you that this
7:33
thing that we have to do because we have to earn
7:35
income, we have to be a productive adult in society
7:37
can actually be a game and it can be fun. And
7:40
I refer to everything as a game. I walk into
7:41
business meetings with CEOs and I'm like, OK,
7:43
what's the game today? They're like, we are a
7:45
serious business. We don't have time. for games
7:47
and i'm like that's where you lost me because
7:48
that's not true We all have time for games. And
7:50
it's once we remove that and they want us to
7:53
become robots, that's when humans bounce. We
7:55
don't want to do that. We want to actually be
7:57
people who are entertained and enjoying our life,
8:00
even if we have to do the things that we have
8:02
to do. I'm a firm believer that once things stop
8:05
being fun or you stop looking forward to doing
8:08
something, that's your body telling you, you're
8:10
done here. It's time to move on. It's time to
8:11
find the next fun thing to do. And it's obviously
8:14
something that you seem to believe in as well.
8:17
Absolutely. Yes. That's amazing. So as I was
8:20
poking around your website, getting to know you
8:22
through the internet a little bit better, I came
8:24
across something that you have. It's called the
8:26
rule of 100. Would you be willing to explain
8:29
that to me and my listeners? Because I think
8:31
this is an interesting concept. So here's the
8:33
thing. Like social media, I'm 50. All right.
8:36
I may not look 50, but I'm 50 years old. You
8:37
don't look 50. If you're not watching the video
8:39
version, this man looks like he's in his 20s.
8:42
But I was there when the Internet was born. OK,
8:45
so that's how old I am. So I've seen social media
8:47
begin and see where it's at now. And the thing
8:50
is, social media is kind of ruined us as a people
8:52
because it only shows the good. It never shows
8:55
the grit. And the thing is, business is 99 percent
8:58
grit, 1 percent good. The other thing is, it's
9:00
teaching us that we need to have millions of
9:03
people like our stuff to be relevant. And the
9:06
reality is, before the Internet, before social
9:08
media, if you had a mom and pop store, you had
9:10
a brick and mortar and you. were trying to sell
9:12
stuff and a million people, a thousand people
9:14
showed up at your door one day, it would ruin
9:17
your business because there's no way you can
9:19
deal with that many people. So what the rule
9:20
of 100 does is it takes that pressure off of
9:23
you and says, you don't need to appeal to a million
9:25
people. And honestly, it's better for your creative
9:28
-based business if you don't. Because when you
9:30
try to mass appeal, you gray yourself out. You
9:33
become beige because you're trying to appeal
9:36
to too many people. Stay in your lane, follow
9:37
your passion, and then look for a hundred people,
9:40
a hundred fans. Those are the people you should
9:42
be catering to. And I know people fight me on
9:44
this one a lot as well, because they're like,
9:45
no, you need to have constantly millions of people
9:47
liking your videos and stuff. I'm like, I'm not
9:49
farming likes. I'm trying to find people who
9:51
want to be clients or customers as any creative
9:53
is. And honestly, I'd rather have 100 people
9:55
who really are passionate about exactly what
9:58
it is I'm trying to do rather than me trying
10:00
to appeal to a ton of people. And I can kind
10:02
of maybe help some of them sometimes. And so
10:05
what the rule of 100 says is just go out there
10:07
and look for 100 people. So when you post to
10:08
social media and you're like, oh, I've hit this.
10:10
300 cap, you've now got three times the amount
10:13
of people you technically need to appeal to.
10:15
So you're doing something correct. And so keep
10:17
doing that. And once you do it enough on social
10:20
media, what happens is the people who need you
10:23
find you. And then everything, if you stuck with
10:26
who you are, you follow that passion. Those people
10:28
are like, this person gets me. This person is
10:31
selling exactly what I need. And then you don't
10:34
have to work at it. Like the idea isn't to sell.
10:36
I've literally have a book called Quit Selling
10:37
Your Shit. And it's like, quit selling your shit,
10:41
sell yourself. And that's what every creative
10:43
should be really doing. And if you're honest
10:44
with who you are and you follow that passion,
10:46
then those people will be like, you're not trying
10:47
to sell your shit to them. You're just trying
10:49
to say who you are and then they will come to
10:51
you. And that's the best way to do it. And then
10:53
a hundred people constantly revolving through
10:54
your business. You're not going to be a multi
10:55
-multi -millionaire. Okay. But honestly, a lot
10:58
of people aren't, most people aren't, but what
10:59
you want to be is comfortable and happy. And
11:02
I think we'd lose a lot of that. Again, social
11:03
media is telling us, no, we need to be driving
11:05
Lamborghinis and flying to Milan every weekend
11:07
or whatever. But the reality is I want to not
11:09
have to worry about putting food on my plate
11:10
and paying my mortgage. You know, that's really,
11:12
and that's what we want as a consistent business.
11:14
And if you follow that passion, you follow that
11:15
idea. At the end of the day, you're like, I never
11:17
sold out. I was who I was and I made a living
11:20
and I was happy and successful. Who doesn't want
11:22
that? That's the rule of one. I love that. As
11:24
someone who I crest. the 10 ,000 followers mark
11:28
on TikTok in January. And I'm like, this is it.
11:31
It's my big break. And then I've been like stuck
11:33
in like 300 view jail ever since. But guess what?
11:36
The needle is still moving on my business. I
11:39
still keep getting more clients. I still keep
11:41
getting people contacting me because they saw
11:43
my TikToks. So yeah, am I making a bajillion
11:46
dollars by making content on the internet? No,
11:49
but what it is doing is it's constantly feeding
11:50
my business, even though I'm stuck in 300 view
11:53
jail. So I love that rule of 100. That's going
11:55
to be something I'm going to be using with my
11:57
own clients from here on out, especially with
11:59
the world of podcasting. As you know, when you
12:02
first start out, it's kind of a slow burn to
12:04
get those first listeners. You're integrating
12:06
into their ecosystem. They're coming into your
12:09
ecosystem. It's hard to build the audience right
12:11
away. But once you have them, they are so loyal.
12:14
Absolutely. Yeah. And I think like if you wanted
12:16
to have, you know, we talk about 300 jail. I
12:18
mean, everybody knows what that is. If you're
12:20
in social media, you know what that is. And that's
12:21
where most the algorithm quits doing organic
12:23
growth. Okay. fine but like i'm not there i'm
12:26
not looking for sponsorship because again that's
12:28
going to muddle out my message i'm not selling
12:30
advertisements if that was my business then obviously
12:32
that's what i would be aiming for but that's
12:34
not what i'm trying to do i'm trying to help
12:36
creatives build a business and understand what
12:37
they're doing so i don't need to worry about
12:39
all those metrics i just need to stay visible
12:42
and that's a thing that a lot of creatives again
12:44
quit selling your shit sell yourself it's that
12:46
they want to hide behind the work and say my
12:48
work is going to speak for me it's like the reality
12:50
is nobody knows you exist and it's mean to say
12:53
that but it's the truth. And so what you have
12:55
to do is you have to stay relevant by putting
12:57
yourself out there. It's just taking that pressure
12:59
off of you that you have to be viral at the same
13:02
time. Occasionally you can have a viral hit.
13:04
Great. And that's what I want people to understand
13:06
is that 300 jail is three times what you need.
13:08
Okay. Your people are still watching you. 300
13:10
people have watched this. Okay, cool. Can I convert
13:12
one of them to a customer? Well, okay, sure.
13:14
Yeah. Do I have to do it by pressure selling
13:17
them by having some whatever BS that you're trying
13:20
to put? No. Be you. Because here's the other
13:22
thing, like honestly, And I hate to like spill
13:24
these beans because the reality is kind of bleak.
13:26
But the reality is when you high pressure sale
13:28
someone, they're not going to do the work. They
13:29
may buy into it. And trust me, I've fallen into
13:31
this trap myself. I'll pay the money, kind of
13:33
like half go through the work, whatever. And
13:35
then I let it go as soon as the contract is up.
13:37
What you're trying to do is build a relationship
13:39
so that the person has trust in you so that when
13:41
you are speaking directly to them, so when the
13:44
opportunity arises for them to do the work and
13:46
they hire you, they're already sold. You don't
13:48
have to do anything else. Just give them the
13:49
hints, the tips, the tricks and help them navigate.
13:52
And then they're going to do that from that point
13:53
on. You just said it yourself. That rule of 100
13:55
makes a hell of a lot of sense. We're going to
13:56
use that forever. Awesome. You know, great. I
13:57
did my work. I didn't try to sell you a book.
14:00
You know, I'd like to, but it's not the point
14:03
here. You know, you just want to try and keep
14:05
that needle moving forward with people who are
14:07
truly invested in your business. Yes, it makes
14:09
complete sense. So I kind of want to get into,
14:12
you have a podcast. You used to be a Twitcher.
14:15
Is that the term for it? Person who streams on
14:17
Twitch. So is that how you initially started?
14:20
And then the podcast came later? Or what was
14:22
kind of your progression with that? Oh, I've
14:24
had so many podcasts, Abby, over the years. So
14:26
my first one was The Maker Men, and it was four.
14:29
guys sitting around and people would just like
14:31
try to stump us on how to make things because
14:33
that's literally what the business was. And then
14:34
I have a podcast right now that I've been doing
14:36
for almost 14 years called Tales from the Front
14:38
Porch. It's just me and a buddy of mine. We just
14:40
sit and we tell jokes and it's a comedy chat
14:42
show. And then eventually for this one, I created
14:45
Gamified Business because I was doing shorts.
14:47
I was doing TikTok. I was doing all those things.
14:49
And I'm like, but honestly, my journey is cool,
14:50
but I'm trying to play the barkeep. I don't want
14:52
to be the leader. So let me start bringing in
14:53
people. You know, I give like little mini -sodes,
14:55
which are like... cool tips and tricks about
14:57
the business side of it but then i bring in cool
14:59
people i create an entire story around them how
15:02
they are an adventurer within the world of gamify
15:04
and then i talk about the monsters that they
15:06
defeated then we go into an in -depth conversation
15:08
with the adventurers that are out there actually
15:11
doing the work and so that's really what this
15:12
was about because again trying to not be the
15:15
star i'm just trying to be the help the service
15:17
person i listened to the most recent two episodes
15:20
of that and it's so good i love the concept for
15:24
that and i love that it's Literally just you
15:26
doing what you do for your business, but in podcast
15:29
form. Like I think it's such a natural fit. And
15:33
I love seeing things like that. I just nerd out
15:35
about it so hard. I think that's an important
15:37
thing for anybody who's running a podcast is
15:39
like, honestly, I like to meet cool people. What's
15:41
the best way to meet cool people is to have them
15:43
come in and tell you about themselves. Okay,
15:45
cool. Like a lot of times my interviews like
15:46
go long, but we cut it at an hour and then we
15:49
just sit and chat. Cause honestly, I'm more interested
15:51
in them as a person. It's like the interview
15:53
is cool. Everybody gets something out of it,
15:54
but I just really want to meet some cool people.
15:56
And that's how people should approach their own
15:58
podcast. It's like, if you're just there to make
16:00
money, one podcast, not the way to do it. Go
16:02
find any other job. The other thing is, if it's
16:05
just a machine for you, it's not really doing
16:07
much, then why do it? You know, it should be
16:10
the backbone of your business and it should be
16:11
an example of it. I just had to turn down a lady
16:14
today because she's like, I want you to be on
16:15
my podcast, but all I do is sell myself on my
16:18
podcast. And then I'm going to break down who
16:20
you are and then sell my services to you. And
16:22
I'm like, that could be an email and I'm not
16:23
really interested. And so for me, I'd rather,
16:25
why don't you come in and play a game with me?
16:26
Be an adventurer, be a better version of you,
16:29
a heightened version of you for an hour and then
16:31
have a good conversation. And then that really
16:32
also demonstrates. to my listeners how this process
16:35
works. And so like, and you may not be a gamer
16:37
and I've had a lot of customer or clients who
16:39
are not gamers. And they're like, I don't play
16:40
D &D, but I'm like, well, come into my world
16:42
for a minute. Let me explain things to you. And
16:43
there's a psychology behind the entire thing,
16:46
which is the removal of ego. Because I don't
16:48
know if you know, but you know, every solopreneur
16:50
or entrepreneur I know is completely flawless.
16:53
You know, they never make mistakes. They don't
16:55
do anything wrong, which we all know is a lie,
16:56
but they have to put on that shield and that
16:58
armor. I'm perfect. I don't know what the accountant's
17:01
talking about. I'm perfect. Exactly that. And
17:05
so that's the whole point. And so I'm like, when
17:06
we do the character sheets, the first thing we
17:08
do is I'm like, I want you to create a character,
17:10
but that character is you in this world. Because
17:12
if I ask you, hey, Abby, what are the three biggest
17:15
flaws that you have as a business owner? You'd
17:17
be like, I don't have no flaws. But I'm like,
17:19
what does your character, Abby, have as flaws?
17:21
Oh, well, I hate marketing. I hate doing this.
17:24
And I'm like, yeah, exactly. The idea isn't to
17:26
pick out your flaws and poke at them. It's to
17:28
say, okay, these are the things that we need
17:30
to either develop or find. find a party member
17:33
who balances that out. And they're like, oh,
17:35
that makes a lot more sense. Exactly. So again,
17:38
demonstrating that via a podcast. So they're
17:41
not scared, even if they may not be a gamer or
17:42
whatever. They're like, this is an interesting
17:44
take on business, which, you know, if you've
17:46
ever tried to study business, business is boring.
17:48
So I'm like, okay, so you want to have some fun
17:50
with it? Let's try something different. And that's
17:51
really the whole point of it. I think it's so
17:52
much fun. I love this approach to it because
17:55
like you said, business is boring to learn. I've
17:57
like tried taking some like online courses of
17:59
how I should actually be structuring. things
18:01
yeah you pay for it and it's like i am not doing
18:03
that that sounds horrible and i'm falling asleep
18:06
watching these modules online and i don't want
18:08
to be here even though i gave you money to do
18:11
this like this concept of turning it into a game
18:14
and making it engaging and having a little bit
18:17
of imagination to it makes so much more sense
18:20
now instead of sitting through a module where
18:21
there's a talking head which i hate talking head
18:23
videos that just drones on for 10 minutes and
18:26
they're like okay now do this worksheet of just
18:27
regurgitated everything you just heard for five
18:29
minutes what if i instead I said, hey. I want
18:31
you to follow this link. You're going to play
18:32
a video game for about 10 minutes. And you're
18:34
like, okay, why? I'm like, yeah, just play it.
18:36
And at the end I said, okay, this actually taught
18:38
you something in business. And you're like, it
18:40
did. And it made sense because it was a game,
18:42
but I wasn't under the pressure of having to
18:43
learn. I just had to come to play. I was like,
18:45
of course, that's going to open up your eyes
18:46
to more stuff. I mean, think about how many video
18:48
games or board games that we sit down. We're
18:50
like, we'll read through the rules or we play
18:51
the starting areas and then, you know, put 99
18:54
or a hundred percent games or whatever. Like
18:56
if we ever applied like 30, 40 % of that to our
18:59
real life, we would be so. So much for a girl.
19:01
But real life is boring. You know, like our day
19:03
to day. I come from theater. That's my background.
19:05
Obviously, you can tell. So like in theater,
19:07
you know, when you watch a play, it's not the
19:09
normal day. It's a highlight day. That's what
19:11
a play is like the important moments of a thing.
19:14
Because if people saw like actor walk out, you
19:16
know, go to the bathroom first thing in the morning,
19:17
brush your teeth, kind of wander around for 40
19:19
minutes before getting dressed. It'd be boring.
19:21
And that's the reality of business. Let's make
19:24
it more fun and then show highlights of it. And
19:26
then we don't need to worry about the monotony
19:28
part that falls in later. kind of deal with it
19:30
on your own. Yeah, I love that analogy. I love
19:32
everything you got going on. And one of the really
19:35
cool things that I saw is that you have a quiz
19:37
that people can take to kind of help get this
19:41
whole thing started. So tell me about this really
19:43
cool quiz on your website. Okay, so the quiz
19:45
is a business personality quiz, but I don't like
19:48
to call it that. It's basically your introduction
19:50
to the tavern. And what you do is you go in and
19:52
it just asks, it asks 36 questions. And that's
19:54
really all it is. But it needs to be 36 questions
19:56
because when we do less, you don't get an accurate
19:58
depiction. But in it, it's a game. And so you
20:00
see me as the barkeep just sitting there talking
20:02
to you and telling you to do this and asks you
20:04
questions about how you think about business.
20:06
And then what it does is it actually breaks you
20:08
down into six different categories. And the categories
20:11
we have named like warrior or wizard, artificer,
20:15
and that's where you fall into as a group. But
20:16
what that is, is actually a personality that
20:18
you have for business and why it's important
20:20
that you understand this. And then when you take
20:23
the quiz at the end, you get sent an 11 to 14
20:25
page deep dive into your personality through.
20:28
the eye of the barkeep. So it's not boring to
20:30
read. It's actually interesting, but nothing
20:32
else. Like I don't even try to sell it. You don't
20:34
even have to sign up for our newsletter. It's
20:35
an option. but you don't even have to do it.
20:37
Like it's literally me just giving it to you
20:38
for free because I want you to be educated on
20:41
who you are because understanding yourself is
20:43
going to be the first step to really being successful
20:44
in your business. But then the key to it is the
20:46
reason we do the classes into like wizard or
20:48
artificer is because I want you to understand
20:51
that each of those has a strength and a weakness,
20:54
but there is a counter person, another class
20:57
that balances you out perfectly. So even if you
20:59
can't have a party of five, which would be the
21:01
ideal group for hunting, you want to at least
21:03
have one person that you can fall back onto.
21:05
Even if you're a solopreneur, having a person
21:07
in your pocket is good to help you balance out.
21:09
When you're done with the quiz, it says, okay,
21:11
this is who you are. But what you want to find
21:13
is this. Because that person, the two of you
21:15
are going to be a wonder power. All the way through.
21:18
So your venturing can't stop. So that's what
21:20
the quiz is. I'm super excited to take it, figure
21:22
out what I am, and then send it to my friend
21:25
who's also a solopreneur. And we call each other
21:28
our co -workers because we're both self -employed.
21:30
But we seem to work well together. But I would
21:32
love to know which class we fall into just to
21:35
see if it's actually helping each other or if
21:37
we're just two people doing the same thing and
21:39
hoping for the best. And that's with the creatives.
21:42
That's what I've actually found to be the most
21:43
true is that creatives love to surround themselves
21:46
with people who are very much like them. But
21:48
the problem is if you have five warriors going
21:50
into battle, you're going to wipe because you
21:52
need a healer. You need a DPS. You need somebody
21:54
who's going to strategize. It can't just be the
21:56
person running out in front. And so what we find
21:58
is that they're like, oh, like warrior is my
22:01
favorite. of the groupings because it is literally
22:04
the solo person it's the person who charges out
22:06
it's like i can do anything but the problem is
22:08
they don't know how to do anything they just
22:09
fake it because they're out in front so their
22:11
ideal counter is the ranger who is the strategist
22:14
who sits behind them so i like to say to people
22:16
is when they get the warrior card and like you're
22:18
the warrior you're great you love to go out there
22:19
you're at the forefront you're gonna we can do
22:21
it we can do it we can do it can we do it and
22:23
you're turning to the ranger and the ranger's
22:24
like yeah we got this boss but the ranger doesn't
22:26
want to lead the ranger is there to clean up
22:28
the messes And so that's why you need to find
22:30
that counter. But I find a lot of warriors group
22:32
together because it's bro mentality. You know,
22:34
there was those guys that you see, you know,
22:36
doing shots at noon, yelling and high fiving,
22:38
but together they can't get anything done. They
22:40
need rangers. And so that's why this is an important
22:42
thing to take. And we try to keep it fun and
22:44
light in the world of gamify. Yeah, I'm super
22:46
excited to take it myself. I'm super excited
22:47
to send the link to my group of people and be
22:50
like, okay, everyone take this and send me your
22:52
results because I have some analyzing to do.
22:55
It is fun. And it's a great introduction to these
22:57
books as well because Once you take the quiz,
22:59
you're like, oh, this is fun. This is interesting.
23:01
It's different. What do the books do? Well, the
23:02
books give you the opportunity to deeper dive
23:04
into it. Like I've built this entire system.
23:06
So you don't need me because again, a lot of
23:08
solopreneurs, they're adventurers on their own.
23:10
They don't want to coach. And so these are self
23:12
-led books as well as, you know, they can obviously
23:14
there has depth to it, but every single one of
23:16
these books talks about my own personal journey.
23:18
So if I'm ever telling you to do anything, there's
23:20
a story there that explains why. And usually
23:22
it's because I effed up really bad somewhere
23:23
and had to learn less in the hard way. And so
23:25
the idea is to kind of get you through it. Now,
23:27
this book here, I'm just gonna talk about it
23:28
really briefly here. No, please do. This is the
23:32
Creative Players Handbook to Business. And this
23:34
is the first book that I wrote. And this is basically
23:36
how to create your character. But what I don't
23:38
tell people is that if you go through this entire
23:40
book and it's not that long and you do the work
23:41
that's inside of it, when you're done, you have
23:43
a business plan. And most people say, hey, I
23:44
got to sit down and write a business plan. It's
23:45
just 60 pages of BS. You know, and I was like,
23:48
well, think about all these things. But this
23:49
one here, it's made for the ADHD brain, the autistic
23:52
ADHD brain. That's me as well and my kids. And
23:55
so what I did is I made sure that it's not the
23:57
same thing over and over again. So sometimes
23:58
there's fill in the blank. Sometimes there's
23:59
short form, long form. There's things that you
24:01
draw pictures literally inside this book, but
24:03
all of them come with lessons. And when you're
24:05
done with it, you've got a business plan, a 90
24:07
day plan of action to earn real world money.
24:09
And at the end of this book, there are four appendices,
24:11
which list out like, well, I don't know where
24:13
to go. Like, how do I write a letter to the bank
24:15
to ask for money? It's in here. You know, there's
24:16
so many links and stuff. So this is really a
24:18
self -led book that allows you to do all of that
24:20
stuff while tricking you into actually doing
24:22
what, anytime you go to a bank, they're like,
24:24
well, where's your business plan? It's like,
24:25
I have, it's in this book. And there's a workbook
24:26
that goes with this. You could actually hand
24:27
in the workbook instead of the actual rigid book.
24:29
But that's. idea behind it is to really just
24:31
make this a game make it fun make it a little
24:34
bit different so that you don't stop three questions
24:36
in or put it off forever because you know creatives
24:38
are cloud thinkers not linear thinkers so we're
24:40
like a b squirrel grass we're all over the place
24:43
and so the book is there to help you with that
24:45
instead of having to sit down and say okay i've
24:47
got to do this task i got to do this chore it's
24:50
like okay what's the next thing i have to do
24:51
to get my character sheet up to par so that's
24:53
the idea that is a immediate add to cart by now
24:56
because i have been told recently that They're
24:59
like, oh, well, you need a business plan. I'm
25:01
like, the plan is it's just doing what it needs
25:03
to do. And they're like, no, you need a business
25:05
plan. I'm like, but I don't know how to do that.
25:08
That's what this does. This is what it covers.
25:10
Now, I also, please, please do. And then I have
25:13
these other jokes. We talked about quit selling
25:14
your shit, which is very important. It's so important.
25:17
It's flying off the shelves. Flying off the shelves.
25:19
That's how good that book is. Thank you all.
25:21
So yeah, we have Quit Selling Your Shit. But
25:23
then the opposite of that, it's Quit Selling
25:24
Your Shit, Sell Yourself. And a lot of people
25:26
are like, I don't know how to do that. So there's
25:27
actually this book over here, which I'm not going
25:28
to touch because it's going to fly off the shelf
25:30
too, is The Bard's Guide to Story. And when I
25:32
wrote... Like both of these books are really
25:34
quick, quick reads. They're really light. Quit
25:36
selling your shit is basically the barkeep saying,
25:37
hey, this is the reason why it's going to fail.
25:39
This is why it's important to not just sell product.
25:42
Don't say buy my book, buy my book, buy my book.
25:44
Give them a reason to do it. Now, a lot of people
25:46
are like, I don't know how to tell a story. We
25:47
all have a story. We've all been to a party and
25:49
somebody's like, hey, tell us that one story.
25:50
And we've all got it. It's in our back pocket.
25:51
And so what the bard's guide does is it's actually
25:53
the bard and the barkeep having a conversation.
25:56
The barkeep starts off and then the bard comes
25:59
in and starts telling the story. And what she
26:01
does in the book is she's like, tell me your
26:02
story. And then you write it down and you're
26:04
like, okay, now we're going to refine that story
26:06
over six versions. And at the end, you're gonna
26:08
have the best story you've ever told because
26:10
there's psychology to storytelling. And so when
26:12
I tell people, quit selling your shit, sell yourself.
26:14
The next question is, I don't know how to do
26:15
that. That's what this book covers. And I sell
26:17
the creative players handbook to business and
26:19
the workbook as a grouping. So it's cheaper.
26:21
And then I also sell quit selling your shit and
26:23
the bard's guide as a group as well, because
26:24
these books are very much. the counter to themselves.
26:27
I've got another book just coming out probably
26:28
in the next couple months here. It's about finances.
26:30
I hate money. I hate it. But I was like, okay,
26:33
so I had a guest on my podcast. And that's what
26:35
I love again, doing the podcast. He's like, can
26:37
we collaborate? Because he wrote a book on finances
26:39
for creative minded people. And it is dry AF.
26:43
It is so boring. And he's like, I know it's boring,
26:45
but it's what's necessary. He's like, can you
26:48
bring it into your world and make it more interesting?
26:50
So we've been collaborating on it as he's reading
26:52
the chapters. He's like, this is such a better
26:54
book. And I'm like, it's your stuff. It's just
26:56
send through a different light. It's that translation
26:58
service. And so again, I hate money as much as
27:01
any other creative. And it's like, I'd rather
27:02
just do the work. I'd let the money do its own
27:04
thing. And this book actually breaks it down
27:05
and explains to people why it's necessary. And
27:08
then my last book, which is coming out at the
27:09
end of summer is a monster manual for business,
27:12
which is all the different monsters with illustrations
27:15
and all these fun things that go with the monsters
27:18
and how to defeat them. Okay. That book is just
27:19
really wants to leave that show. So I'm going
27:21
to pull it off here. And so that one's coming
27:22
out. I'm illustrating all the images we're going
27:24
through. And we're actually creating, it looks
27:25
like a regular monster manual, but it's all these
27:27
fun monsters that you like the distractor, which
27:30
is the ADHD main nemesis, which has them going
27:32
everywhere else. And it seems like a bonus, but
27:34
it's not. And there's traps that we encounter
27:36
and all these things. So that's the next book
27:37
that's coming out. So I'm looking forward to
27:38
that. I am so excited. I'm literally going to
27:41
go buy these right now because I think this is
27:43
so helpful. Like I said, a creative person who
27:45
is easily distracted. And if you put like the
27:47
most dry, bland workbook in front of me or like
27:50
here, this will help you write your business
27:51
plan. It might, but I'm. won't fill it out. So
27:54
it's not helpful. Right. I've been there. I've
28:00
had three businesses. And the business plan is
28:01
the worst part. It truly is. Because it's so
28:03
boring. And I don't want to talk about metrics.
28:05
I had a client who was an actuary. She basically
28:07
did books all the time. And she was going to
28:08
present to Google to get funding for her product.
28:11
And that was kind of the impetus between the
28:13
quit selling your shit. Because she came to me.
28:14
She's like, I've got all my numbers. I've got
28:15
my spreadsheets. It's really exciting. I'm going
28:17
to go to Google. And I'm like, this is how much
28:18
money we can make. I'm like, this is boring.
28:19
They're not going to give you any money. I said,
28:20
why did you start this? She's like, well, my
28:22
parents owned a company, a construction company.
28:24
And they were having a hard time keeping track
28:25
of where all the money was going out. Because
28:27
they had all these sub companies. contractors
28:28
and all this. And so I created this to allow
28:30
her small business to stay profitable and know
28:32
what's going on. Like lead with that story. Mom
28:34
and dad stories. That's choice. Everybody loves
28:37
them. yeah and she did and then she had the numbers
28:39
to back it up and then google gave her funding
28:41
there you go you know and so it's that's the
28:42
quit selling your shit sell yourself and then
28:44
that's it in practice and that's really all it
28:46
comes down to paul this has been such a fun conversation
28:49
i am so glad we got connected on pod match because
28:53
now i have homework from this podcast that i'm
28:56
actually looking forward to great so if you want
29:02
to take the quiz yes what are the steps to take
29:05
All right. So just go to gamifybusiness .com
29:08
forward slash quiz. That'll take you right to
29:10
the quiz. Or if you just go to gamifybusiness
29:11
.com, you'll see it at the top there. It says
29:13
take a quiz. And there's giant cards. It's pretty.
29:15
You can't miss it. But go there and take the
29:16
quiz. And again, you don't need to sign up for
29:18
it. I'm not selling you anything because I want
29:20
you into the world and then want to come back.
29:22
If you want to sign up for the newsletter, the
29:24
deep dive that you get gets deeper. But that's
29:26
only if you want to get emails. I don't spam
29:27
people because I delete most of the spam that
29:29
I get. So you get six more emails from me over
29:32
six months. That's it. And it's just a, hey,
29:34
remember me. So yeah, gamifiedbusiness .com.
29:36
Again, if you want to check out the podcast,
29:37
it's Gamified Business Tavern Tales, and it's
29:39
available all places that you listen to it. Really
29:41
fun. It's also on the website, so you can check
29:43
it out there. Paul, thank you so much for taking
29:45
the time to talk with me today. I've had just
29:47
such a wonderful time with you. Excellent. It's
29:49
been fun. I love these conversations. It's great.
29:51
And I love it when people nerd out. That's my
29:53
favorite thing. People need to be nerdy about
29:55
the things that they love because the world would
29:56
be a better place if we were all just a little
29:58
more nerdy about the cool things we're doing.
30:00
Absolutely. 100%. Well, thank you so much, Abby.
30:02
I really do appreciate it.