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Transcript

#1852 The Other Version Of You - Bobby Cappuccio · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I'm going to a team might come to another installment
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: to show Bobby get.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: A chance, Doctor hopes.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: I'm not doctor Harps. In fact, you and I had
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: to just who knows, who knows when or if? Well,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: let's hope it's more when than if. But we're sliding
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: slowly towards home base. But yes, we just had to
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: delay the start of the show because I had my
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: senior supervisor, who when you're doing a PhD, your senior
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: supervisor is pretty much god. So when he or she
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: sends you a message, you reply to the message. When
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: he or she wrings, you answer the call. When he
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: or she wants a meeting. And people are probably amused
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: to think that I'm scared of someone, I'm fucking scared.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Going about that I'm scared. It's because they hold in
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: a way, they hold your academic future in their hand,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: and you think you're in charge. You're not really in charge.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: You're just almost a passenger in your own project. But
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: nonetheless it's good. So I resolved that I spoke with them,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: and here I am.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Back talking to you, which I'm grateful for.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, did you ever get I mean, you are the
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: most educated and I don't even like the term non academic,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: but technically but you've you have. And this is not
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  Speaker 1: me trying to make you feel good or pump you
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: up in front of people, but like it. I've literally
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: been at UNI now combined about ten years, and you've
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: read vastly more quantities of papers and research than I have,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: did you? And you're always reading research And even if
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: I mentioned something, there's a fair chance you've read the
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: paper or you know the authors, or you know the
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: studies or you know the research is there. Did you
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: get to a point in time where you when I
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: don't need to and not that you do need to,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: By the way, I don't have any interest in doing
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: a tigree or got in university or college as you
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: signed the sites, because I can just read everything that's
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: relevant to me and it doesn't matter to me.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Well, I never I never wanted to read and study
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: so that I can write. It's like not in order
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: to It was first own sake. So where I started
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: diving into learning is I think the first the first
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: job I had that really changed the trajectory of my life.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Like when you're a kid, you do a ton of
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: odd jobs and you know it's not necessarily building a path.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: When I was eighteen, I went to work at Gold Gym,
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: and you know, I've talked about you know, Mitch Pacifico
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: a lot of times. He's he was a majority owner
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: of that gym, and the relationship I formed with him
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  Speaker 2: was in every way transformative. And I remember being frustrated
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: because I felt like I was dumber than everybody else.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: I couldn't sell like the salespeople did. I didn't understand
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: what the trainers were talking about. And there I was,
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: and I was in college, right. It wasn't an uniqu
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: it was literally a college, smaller school, and I couldn't
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: find a direct application for what I was learning. And
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: I was living on my own at eighteen, which I
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: had to, and it was just a matter of if
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: I don't start learning how to improve, I'm not going
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: to have a job. And living alone at eighteen that's
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: kind of like expensive, and that was a little bit scary.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: I can't go back home, so let me try to
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: read on my own. Because I noticed that people around
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: me were reading mostly mostly self help. That's where it started.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh wow, I could get these ideas
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: and the same day I can go into work I
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: can listen to it in the morning, or read this
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  Speaker 2: book in the morning. Let me see what works. Oh wow,
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: that worked or that didn't work. Most of the time,
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: I wonder if if it's the information that's not applicable,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: it's probably the way I'm applying it. So let me
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: test other stuff, let me EXPERI meant, and that became
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: enthralling for me to test something, see what happens, change
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: your result, and eventually discover things that work that could
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: be duplicated. So I kind of learned for its own sake.
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  Speaker 2: And a lot of times I'll pick up a book
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  Speaker 2: simply because I'm interested in it. It's not necessarily connected
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  Speaker 2: to anything I need to do at the moment, if
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  Speaker 2: that makes any sense.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. I feel like, also rightly or wrongly, probably wrongly,
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  Speaker 1: that academia and academic qualifications, while definitely not bad, definitely,
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  Speaker 1: you know, they can be very valuable and very advantageous
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: and of course in fields like medicine, etc. You know, necessary,
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  Speaker 1: but I think they have like a social currency that
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  Speaker 1: is probably inflated in terms of practical real world use.
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  Speaker 1: And then people who are just like if I think
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  Speaker 1: of all the smartest people that I personally, you know,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: in my judgment and the people to me that are
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  Speaker 1: just in all ways, you know, or in most ways
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  Speaker 1: they have a kind of a functional, practical real world
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: as well as sometimes scientific or whatever, but like a
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: kind of an intelligence that's very very user friendly and
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: very helpful day to day. And you know, so like
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: if I'm thinking about who do I want to talk
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: about this with, like you're always in the top few
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: on my list? Do you think that? Do you think, oh,
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  Speaker 1: you're welcome, it's absolutely true. Do you think that in
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five it's a disadvantage to not get a
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: degree or to not go to university or college. Do
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: you think it's because I feel like it's becoming less
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: and less relevant and important, especially a way that business
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: and career is and stiles and services and products are evolving.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: You know, I think both of them have advantages. I
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: think it's a tough call to say, well, you know,
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  Speaker 2: it's it's worthless to get a degree. I've heard that before.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: It's like really, and then you know I've heard like, okay,
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  Speaker 2: if you don't have a degree, it says a lot
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  Speaker 2: about your lack of discipline, follow through, and you're just
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: not very educated, and it's like, well, I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: Here in the States, you know billionaires. I made a
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: habit of going to and dropping out of Harvard. It
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: almost seems to be the path to like massive success.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: So that can't be at one hundred percent true either.
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  Speaker 2: I think it comes down to one what is it
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  Speaker 2: that you want to do? Like, if you want to
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: be an entrepreneur, do you absolutely need a degree? I
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: mean a degree can A degree can help you. Someone's
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: popping into my head and he's in there quite a
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: bit because he's he's a fantastic storyteller. I used to
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: work with this guy, Frank and and he was the
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: president of a company that I was part of the
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: senior leadership team with. Actually that happened twice working with
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Frank And. Frank was an attorney and has his NBA,
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: and he insisted that if you want to succeed as
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: an entrepreneur, never go out and get your NBA. He
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: had one, but he was like, don't go out and
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: do that. I think everything has something to offer you
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: if you're willing to pull the most out of it.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: You know, why why is it you want?
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  Speaker 1: This?
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Is it because everybody else has this, and I think
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: I should have this Probably not the best reason, or
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: there's a deeply rooted thing I want to do. You know,
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: I want to be I want to be a neurosurgeon. Well,
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: you know, school is probably a good pathway. Trial and
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: error is going to land you in prison for a
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: very very long time, you know, if you're going to
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: go out and start it. Like me, I just wanted.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: I had this entrepreneurial spirit for like a minute when
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: I was in my twenties. I just wanted to learn
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  Speaker 2: as much as I could and apply as much as
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: I could, keep at work, throw away what didn't. I
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: didn't have time to follow a curriculum, and I'm someone
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: who enjoys having a curriculum laid out for me. So
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: I think it's like, what type of learner are you?
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Because learning the way College of structured didn't match my
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: learning style at all. So that was a struggle. I thought.
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  Speaker 2: I actually believed that I was incapable of learning like
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: everyone else until I got out and I started learning
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  Speaker 2: my own. I started learning about my own learning style.
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  Speaker 2: So I think it's like, how do you learn what
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  Speaker 2: it is that you what do you want? And what
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: are you willing to implement an extract from it. I
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  Speaker 2: think this is some important questions anyone should ask before
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  Speaker 2: you know, pursuing anything.
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  Speaker 1: Really Yeah, And I think you make a great point,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: and that is I think we need to learn how
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: we learn optimize. When I did my when I went
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: to Unique for the first time, and I think first semester,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: first year or maybe second semester, we were doing basically anatomy.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, like all the muscles of the body,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: you know, but where everything originates and inserts and actions,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: like really quite basic stuff. But you know, all of
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: a sudden, I've got to you know, know the five
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: adductors of the fema and where they originate and inserting
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: for you know, whatever muscles of the quad or barber,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: all of these things that I kind of knew, but
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: then and then you know all of the like the
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: smaller muscles that oh yeah, the rotator cuff here, but
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: what are the two internal and external rotators? And you've
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: got to remember everything, right, So and I remember just
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: reading and reading and going and I was at this
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: stage thirty six and reading and reading and like it's
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: and I'm reading something and I'm thinking about a Hamburger
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: like or whatever, like it's not and I'm like, it
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  Speaker 1: doesn't matter how much I read this. Within three four
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: five lines, I am distracted and I'm sitting in a
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: room with a book. And so I had to figure
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: out that. And I've told this once or twice before,
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  Speaker 1: but what worked in that instance for me with anatomy
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: and then functional anatomy and then physiology and all of
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: the stuff that I eventually did was Okay, so get
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: out of the big fat book, get a highlighter, get
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: a pen, and then write on your book and then
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: write on the line the ship that you know that
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: you need to know. Highlight the ship that you know
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: you need to know. And then I had basically what
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: I think was a not a tape but a digital
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: an early incarnation of a digital recorder all the luck
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: and I would, you know, there's maybe twenty pages that
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I had to kind of know, and then that would
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: be distilled into a couple of pages of must know
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: and then I would record all of that into audio
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: and I would go the four muscles of the quad
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: are they you know? In certain to tell a ten?
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: And then the tibal tuberosity and the fucking whatever, right,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: and then I'd record all of that and then listen
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: to it repeatedly, And that was how it got into
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: my brain. But me trying to learn by looking at
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: a book, reading stuff and then remembering the stuff. Even now,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: that doesn't work for me. It doesn't work for me.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: It's like very very suboptimal. So I think the idea
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: of learning how you best learn a little bit of
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: trial and error is paramount for anyone who wants to
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: do any kind of whether it's personal or professional development
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: or academic endeavor. But it's figuring out how you best
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: work in that space.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and leaning in towards that century modality but not
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: utilizing it exclusively for me would helped me. And this
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: was just, you know, serendipitous. It wasn't strategic on my part.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Is when I was reading something, I wanted to know,
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: how does this help me today? So there was a
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: very narrow gap between learning theory and learning and now
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: to me and procedural learning. So I would take a
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: book out onto the floor and say, Okay, I'm gonna
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: work out right now what am I working?
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Why am I choosing one path of motion versus another?
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Like okay, well, what's a bench press. Good for I
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: don't know who are you and what is your goal?
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: What are you trying to achieve? And what does the
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: anatomy say?
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: So?
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Am I going to move more in the sadgittal plane?
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: That would be like with my elbows into my body
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: moving forward and back? Am I going to have my
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: elbows a little bit higher? So horizontal adduction? Well, how
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: am I making those choices? Well, the anatomy is going
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: to dictate things like plane of motion, and there's many,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: many choices that you have. So I would go and
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: I would say, Okay, well, here's the origin assertion of
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: the pectoralyis major, here's like what it does, Here's all
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: the things that it can do. If I'm going to
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: go to incline, how many degrees of incline do I want? Optimally?
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: I go back to my book and it's like okay, wow,
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: So now I'm learning how this theory actually is applied.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: So yes, and I would talk about it. I would
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: listen to things as well. I did the same thing.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: I record myself, which was painful at first, but then
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: at the end of the week, you've applied the information
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: you've read, the information you've listened to the information you've taught,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: the information you're saturating multiple learning modalities. You're gonna learn
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: faster if it's actually something that you're interested in, that
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: you deeply care about. That's a high level of engagement.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: You're gonna seek out more and more information because your
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: self efficacy or confidence is increasing, but so is your capacity.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: You're you're expanding your ability to engage with the world
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: relative to that information. I think that's really exciting, and
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: you could do that. I mean, you could do that
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: on your own. If you're that type of person. You
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: can do that in university. Let me flip Let me
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: flip this on you. Since you've been going for your PhD,
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: what has been the single most impactful aspect of that
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: experience on the pay.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: I stay journey MS. I don't think there's been a
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: single thing. But as I've said many times, like I'm
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: not a natural academic, right, and so for me being
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: an environment that's not my natural habitat doing a thing
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: that doesn't come easily or naturally learning a new language,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: it's been apart from the actual practical process of designing research,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: running research, interpreting data, writing papers, learning you know how
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: to write academically, learning how to apply to journals and
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: stand in front of a board and do you performance reviews.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: You know, four of those I had to do. I've
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: done them all. I've got through them, which is all
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: the practical stuff. But really for me just doing something
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: where I don't think I ever get ahead of myself,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: because I've never thought I'm a genius. But realizing that
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: one there's so much that I don't know and now
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: I'm learning. But two, I can start a PhD at
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: fifty six and do it. I can finish it at
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: sixty one. I can become whatever, a doctor of psychology
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: at sixty one I can do, you know, So for
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: me a little bit about confidence, a little bit about
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: understanding myself, and you know, on a practical level, how
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: to do real world research, to design studies, to get
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: bums on seats, to get ethical approval, to advertise for participants,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: to figure out, no, you can't do that cretic and
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: you can't talk like that, and you can't write like that,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: and you can't get participants that way. And by the way,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: here are thirteen design flaws in your methodology or your
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: intended You know all of that where you're like, oh,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: this has to be perfect or as close to perfect
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: as you can do. Whereas as you know, I'm a
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: little bit you know, I'm Freddy freestyle. I'm like, well,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: let's just see, Like yesterday I did a six hour
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: corporate and I turn up and I speak, and I
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: have no notes and I have no PowerPoint and I
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: have no and it went well. But I'm in the moment,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: I'm in flow, I'm reading the room, I'm and all
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: of that stuff with works with that task or that role.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: That doesn't work doing a PhD because there's none of that.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: So for me learning by the way, you know, just
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: because you maybe have a little bit of a profile crag,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: that doesn't mean anything just because you think you're a
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: bit funny. Nobody cares just because you think you're a
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: bit clever. In some ways, you're not hearing the dunst
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: in the room. And you know, I think, and I'm
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: in that in a self loathing way at all, just
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: a self a wems way. So it's been many, many
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: times more beneficial than I thought it would be.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: So here's something that I clearly remember. I had signed
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: up for a public speaking a presenter's mastermind. Yeah, and
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: it was it was kind of cool. It wasn't you know.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: It was the best experience with these things. I've had
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: to be fair. But you would get coached group coaching.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: You would have your one on one coaching, and one
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: of the things in the modules that they had you
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: do is write out what you're gonna speak about word
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: for word and memorize it. So if you're going to
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: give a forty five minute keynote, like you know, you're
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: going to have like, however many pages? I know I
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: had like over twenty pages. I think that was a
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: little bit too much. You're going to scale back. But
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: it's like literally from Hello, introducing yourself all the way
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: to thank you word for word that is for me personally,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: or recipe for a nightmare of a presentation. I don't
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: think that way. I don't function that way, although lately
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: I've been preparing for speeches that way. That's that's a
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: totally different podcast. And I remember I was telling life,
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't know if I if I'm really
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: in the right mastermind. I think this was a mistake.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: This is so anathetical to how I think, how I learn,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: how I perform. She's like, that's why you need to do.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: It's like if you never take any of their advice,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: just do what they tell you to do and learn
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: how to do something well like develop a let maybe
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: not mastery. You're not going to spend ten years on this,
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: but develop a level of proficiency with this just because
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: it opens up different insights and pathways. You could throw
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: it all away if it doesn't work for you, but
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: go through it. That's the exact reason. So the question
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: I have for you is if you were going to
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: let's say the day you got your PhD, like you
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: know what, I'm over this, I'm not going to use
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: this for anything, in what ways would you be more
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: more well equipped, more insightful. What would be the benefits
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: in your life and work for going through the process
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: even if you never use it for anything.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, great question. So on practical you know, on level,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: I'm a lot more confidence to talk about you know,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: research and science with people because I have a better
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: understanding and having been through the process. So I'm still
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: i still think I've got my al plates on right,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: but I've got a better academic and intellectual and scientific
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: and methodological understanding around how things work. So there's that,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: But Honestly, I feel this is going to sound like cheesy,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: but I feel more humble and grounded because I realize
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: how smart so many people are, how much stuff there
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: is to know, how little I know. And I guess when,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: like yesterday, I'm going to say the name, I'm going
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: to give a shout out to the company. I did
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: a gig for a company called Fireline. Shout out to them.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: They were great and we were together not six hours,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: five hours from eight to one ish.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: And I realize that when I'm doing that, when I'm
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: talking to a group about you know, without giving any
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: secret away, but we're just talking about the idea of
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: high performance, high performance as a team, as a company,
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: as an organization, as an individual.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: And we're not talking about making the Olympic team, or
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: curing cancer or flying to the moon. We're just talking
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: about how do we get the most out of us
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: with what we've got to work with? Right, So, what's
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: your psychological, emotional, practical, whatever potential? How much of that
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: are you using? What are we doing great? What are
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: we not doing great? And I think like being in
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: that environment now with all the experiential insight and understanding
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: and working with teams and athletes and all the shit
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: I've done for forty years and then working on the
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: last five and a half years of this academic process.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: I guess it gives me more confidence to speak about
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: things that I once felt like a fraud to speak about.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: And that's more about my insecurity and my self doubt
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: and my imposter syndrome than it is now. I'm a
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: genius and I can talk with confidence rot. So I
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: guess that the long winded answer is in pought confidence
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: and awareness.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, confidence and awareness. I mean those two things,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: like awareness, especially self awareness, key to the lock on
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: any type of long term behavior change. Confidence. If you're
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: not confident, are you really going to act on what
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: you're becoming increasingly aware of? Maybe not, because why would
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: you if you don't believe that you can bring an
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: outcome or an experience to fruition. So when you think
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: about how many people are working in industries that have
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: nothing to do with what they majored in, still probably
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: a lot of benefit that they want to university anyway.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: So I guess, and that's just where I sit. Whatever
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: it is, whatever journey or path you're taking, yeah, road
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: less traveled, just just go far down that path, like,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: go for it. So I think who you become at
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: the end of that, and what you experience and what
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: that opens up for you. It makes your life a
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: lot bigger if you allow it to.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I one hundredsent agree. So I've got a
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: couple of questions for you. So people might be listening
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: to this thinking, yeah, I don't want to go to
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: you any thanks anyway, but I really want to. I
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: want to be more informed and more educated, and I
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: think now has never been in some ways, It's never
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: been easier to access information and research and all of that,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: but it's never been simultaneously, it's never been easier to
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: get tripped up because there's so much bullshit. So what's
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: your advice for people who want to educate themselves using
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: the Internet and all the various websites and resources and
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: portals as basically you know their go to for like,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: how do we how do we decipher and filter through
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: what is true and what is bullshit? And what is
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: a sales pitch? I know there's no three step answer
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: to this, but what's your broad advice, Because I mean you,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: this is where both of us, you and I do
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: a huge amount of online stuff where we're researching and
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: we're picking through this stuff. But what's your advice?
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: The answer is forty two Yes, that's rightly Hitchhiker's got
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: to the galaxy. But I think the follow up is
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: the key to that, which is, but what's the question?
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: What are the what are the questions or the question
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: that you're seeking an answer to and why? I think
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: you know, that's a good place to start. What's the benefit?
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: What what exactly is the outcome you're looking for? And
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: this doesn't have to be well, I'm going to increase
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: fifty sales you know a year to hit my income
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: goal of you know that it can be that it
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: could be something intrinsic in you, a shift, but clearly
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: know what it is that you're after and what did
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: you you're trying to do. And if you start with
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: a question, you can go to chat GPT and say, well,
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: here's a question I have, you know, pretend that you
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: know you were my you know, professor, Yeah, where should
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: I go? What are all the references I should look
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: at out of those? You know, given the context of
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: I'm asking this question with the intention of what are
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: the top five or ten and just start there. I
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: mean with research. You know, we were talking about something
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: before you hit the record button where somebody comes out
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: and says, well, study show that's one of the most
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: irritating statements that anyone can make, because one, I think
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: it's I think it's a little bit manipulative. I'm not
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: saying it's always intentional, but it's a little bit manipultive.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Number two, what studies? What was the methodol like, what
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: were the end values? Was it of a duplicated But
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: I think that's where you have to decide your line
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: of evidence. What is your line of evidence, and if
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: it's line of evidence is just what is it that's
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: acceptable for you in terms of efficacy and quality information?
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: So you know your your line of research for some people,
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: your line of evidence for some people is like a randomized,
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: you know, double blind experiment, that kind of it. And
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: this has to be duplicated. You know who else has
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: produced the same result? Is it one study showed this
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: or is it well, you know what we've done a
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: meta analysis of twenty seven high quality studies published in
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: High impact factor. That's just that's just showing the quality
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: of the journal that's published in. Right, So low impact
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: factor would be like Capuccio's journal, don't read that journal
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: if you want to see it, or or nature would
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: be on the other end of that. So let's say
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: you know, there are twenty five quality studies published and
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: they all pretty much are saying the same thing. Well,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: you know, that's kind of assuring that what you're reading
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: and the answer to that question has some validity behind it.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: Or you know, let's take sales. I might not be
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: able to point to a study, but I might talk
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: to some of the top sales people in my organization
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: that are constantly being brought up at the national event
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: every year because they're at the top of the company.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: I'm like, well, would you sit with me and help me?
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: You know, what do you think makes you as effective
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: as you are? You know, with all the successes you've
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: had over your career, what do you attribute most to that? Well,
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: that's not research, that's purely anecdotal. But then you talk
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: to another salesperson, like let's say number two in the company,
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: and then you talk to someone who's number one in
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: a different industry, and there are some correlations there as
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: long as it's as long as it's not unethical, What
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: they're doing and you trying it is not going to
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: hurt yourself with others, experiment with stuff and see what works.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: So that's a completely different line of evidence. When you're
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: getting your PhD. That's not a line of evidence that's
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: really going to work for you. When I'm trying stuff
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: out in the world, my line of evidence is my decision.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: So know what that is. And you know, like two emotions.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know if there are emotions, they could be
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: mental states that you need to learn effectively, both psychologically neurobiologically.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Is curiosity and frustration? What are you curious about? And
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: are you challenging yourself enough to where you're frustrated to
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: creating the biochemical environments in your brain to optimize focus
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: and learning.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Wow, I love that. I've never I've never heard that
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: time that way. What's the is the spice between self
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: help and full education? Is the gap getting bigger or smaller?
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Or is it unchanged?
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: I have no idea. I have no idea how to
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: answer that question. What I can say he's.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: A better question. Maybe so you and I from both
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: of us had a similar part in our early twenties
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: maybe late teens. We both opened the self outdoor went
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: via you Know Everything from you Know which you Know,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Tony Robbins has sets to Stephen Covey to you Know.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: I think we opened a lot of the same books
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: and listened to a lot of the same people. How
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: has that kind of self help or personal development evolved
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: or devolved in your opinion where we're at now in
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: I think you can seely say it's far more ubiquitous
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: than it was twenty years ago. Like everybody right now
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: has access or plugged into self help. In the West,
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: it's almost a daily way of life. I mean, there
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: are more self help gurus than there are like seminar
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: participants at this stage in the game. So it's I
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: think it's grown and it shifted quite a bit, hasn't
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: it now. I think self help for me was amazing
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: because I think there's a lot I have a lot
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: of criticisms of self help, but I also think it
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: brings a lot of value. I think if you're constantly
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: engaging in ideas that expand your imagination and your scope
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: of possibilities and your interests, it's like, oh, I want
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: to try that, I want to learn more about that.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: That's fascinating. I just think it requires a combination of
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: doing your own I don't want to say research, but
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: your own learning process, questioning everything you hear. You can
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: go to Google scholar and type in you know, triggers, cues,
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: and habit formation see what comes up. So if somebody's
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: recommending something on Instagram, it could be the greatest advice
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: in the world, or you know, they could be an
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: end value of one. It could have worked for them
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: nobody else. You have enough tools now where you can
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: go and investigate and let your curiosity drive you. Here's
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: an example, right. I think I've talked about this on
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: the show because it was a hilarious point in my life.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: But I was listening to a self help speaker. I'm
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: not going to mention any names, and what they were
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: talking about was the Yale Study of nineteen fifty three. Now,
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: as I'm saying this, you probably know what I'm talking
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: about already. You've come across this for those of you
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: who haven't. Back in nineteen fifty three, Yale University and
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Ivy League School in the United States surveyed the entire
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: graduating class and they asked them a specific question, how
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: many of you have clearly defined written goals and plans
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: for their achievement. And what was interesting is either the
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: entire graduating class of nineteen fifty three at Yale, only
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: three percent had clearly defined written goals and plans for
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: their achievement. And they followed these people for twenty years,
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: all the way up to nineteen seventy three. And then
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: when they went back and they interviewed these people again,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: what they found was astonishing. The surviving members of the
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: nineteen fifty three class that had clearly defined written goals
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: and plans for their achievement were earning more than the
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: other ninety seven percent. But what is really powerful about
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: that is they were earning more than the other ninety
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: seven percent combined. Now, Harvard did a very similar study
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: years later, and they found the same exact results and
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: the same exact ratios. And I went ahead when I
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: heard that, and I started clearly writing out my goals
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: and plans for their achievement. And one year from when
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: I had done that, half of the goals that I
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: had written down for myself, whether you know, whatever level
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: of ambition as a person who's just you know, turned
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: twenty would have I achieved them now, neither the Yale
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: study nor the Harvard study ever took place. It's an
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: urban myth because Fast Company magazine credible publication. Lawrence Tayback
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: was a researcher and he was interested in this, and
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: he researched the Yale and Harvard study, and no one
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: at Yale nor Harvard had any information on a study
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: like that ever having taken place. So you'll hear something
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: from self help and you'll run with it like, wow,
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: this is amazing. And they even contacted Fast Companies team
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: contacted a couple of speakers that had actually said this
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: quite often, and the response was, well, if it's not true,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: it ought to be. Yes, that's kind of interesting. But
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: there's two ways you can take it. One, you had
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: people that sold tons of books, seminars, tapes deceiving their audience.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: It's an outright lie. Whether you know it's a lie.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Maybe you read a book from someone who read a
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: book that was written by somebody who made this stuff up,
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: but you are deceiving people. On the other hand, half
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: of my goals were achieved because there's a lot of
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: science behind goal setting and what goal setting does and
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: how it changes the biochemistry in your brain, how it
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: supports mental health, how it supports resilience. So and you know,
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: if your goals are aligned to your values, there's engagement
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: and there's a sense of well being there. So you're
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: probably going to work longer, You're going to try more stuff.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of validity, even though the actual story
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: was fictitious. So there's two ways you could frame that.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: And if you're listening to this, I'll let you decide
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: which one is more powerful for you.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: That's super interesting and it's I guess one of the
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: ongoing practical realities for people is there's the idea that
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: you know, I want to do be, create, change x
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: y Z. So there's the thing that I want to
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: achieve or produce or change the habit I want to
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: you know, let go of, or the habit I want
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: to create, or the money I want to earn, or
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: the body I want to build, or the health state
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: I want to transform on, whatever it is. There's the idea,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: So that's that's the goal, But then there's the execution.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Then there's the doing. So the idea, the intention, the
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: goal of the plan. You know that to do list
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: is all theory, but it's then you know, stepping into
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: what can be the uncertain, uncomfortable, unfamiliar, unenjoyable at times
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: process like the idea of doing shit. The goal, the
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: intention is not the same as the work right, And
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: I think that that's being able to set a goal easy,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: being able to execute the goal, being able to consistently
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: act on the goal through peaks and troughs and motivation
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: and focus and excitement and support, all of that stuff.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: That's the challenge.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: That is the exact problem that I have with self help.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: That is my biggest criticism is self help will tell
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: you what to do. Everybody knows what to do, and
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: if you're not doing what they're doing, well, clearly you're
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: doing it wrong. And they'll search many levels deep to
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: find you guilty of something. If the speaker's really good,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: they'll get into what your personal why behind the what
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: is not their why. There's enough of those as well.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: What they leave out very often is the how. And
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: if you're not taking the look at research and the
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: what the empirical evidence says, and you're taking things at
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: face value, you're gonna become frustrated and you're going to
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: start to develop erroneous beliefs. About yourself and has nothing
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: to do with something that you lack internally. It's just
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: that you don't have the mechanism and the vehicle. Like
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: if you are going to race and you know you
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: could be the greatest car driver in the world, you
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: could be a Formula one driver. If your race against
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: someone who's in a Honda, but all you have is
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: a golf cart, You're not going to win. You just
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: don't have the right vehicle. And you can tell yourself
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: stories about how, man, if I only would have driven harder,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: if I only was more motivated, you know, if I
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: only wanted it more. No, dude, you were in a
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: golf court. So they'll say things like what you just
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: said execution, But when you look at the research, how
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: do people execute and how do they go about achieving
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: their goals dealing with sets yes in order to increase
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: the probability that they'll succeed or at least maintain those
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: behaviors in the long term. You know, one thing that
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: self help comes up with is, you know, happiness is
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: a decision, right, So if I'm someone who is just
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: crimogeneous and I'm miserable, and maybe I'm going through something
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: that I haven't explored. Holy shit, now I'm guilty because
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: I'm not a positive person. I need to side well.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: When when you look at the research that has been
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: duplicated by many qualified researchers, fifty percent of happiness is genetic.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: It's heredity, natural selection, gene mutation. You're not gonna do
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: a damn thing about that, no matter how much you decide.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Another ten percent is situational. I lost my job, Well,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: that's going to impact your happiness, especially in the immediate
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: You're gonna habituate to that. You know, we habituate to
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: really good things happening to us. We kind of habituate,
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: thankfully to really bad things happening to us. But you
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: have the forty percent in between there, and none of
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: that forty percent, according to the research, falls into the
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: category of decide or just do it. There are specific
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: behaviors that people engage in. You know, you don't go
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: out and find happiness. You do happiness. So just that
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: happiness is a choice that's gonna make me very unhappy.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: It's also going to prevent me from engage in things
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: like affective labeling, which the research says is one of
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: the most important things you need to do if you
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: want to avoid ruminating on negative emotions or just suppressing
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: them for the rest of your life and exacerbating your discontentment.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: So things like that get me going, like, there's got
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: to be there's got to be a how like you
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: going for your PhD? Imagine this right, you sit down
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: with you know, you're seeing your supervisor. He says, Craig,
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: here's here's like all the information, here's all the data,
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: and we expect the thesis, go after it. And then
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: you come back and it's like, well, okay, well I
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: don't know how to make sense of this. Well look, Craig,
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: if you want the PhD, you just have to want
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: it bad enough. Discipline yourself, stay up late into the night,
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: wake up early in the morning. We want that thesis.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: To me, that's someone who has no idea how to
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: guide you. So they're putting it on you so then
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: they can say, well, you didn't do what I told
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: you to do. You didn't do the work. No, there's
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: a very specific process, and that process is there for
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: a reason. It doesn't excuse hard work. It demands it,
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: but it structures it. And when something goes wrong and
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: I'm assuming in a PhD. There are a lot of
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: those moments. You know how to notice it, evaluate it,
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: and begin again more intelligently as a result of it,
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: and probably learn more than if that never happened. That's process.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so interesting. Yeah, I've had this, I mean
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: I've had a long time, but I've started doing something
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: about it, and you know, like does it hurt? Yeah,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: well there's a little bit of that, but that's a
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: different podcast. Now none at the moment, actually pretty good.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: I'll come to sixty.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: I realized that I realized a long time, guys, that
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: I can walk into a room as can you.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, you and I have worked together on the
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: same stage. You've spoken at my weekend camps, You've been
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: We've done a lot of stuff together over the years.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: And you can walk out and you can talk for
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: forty five minute Kenota, or you can talk all day
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: and you can blow people away, and you know, I
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: can walk out and do my thing and make a
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: few people laugh. And you know, I just got some
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: feedback this morning from a gig that I did through
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: a speaking agency for an organization last week, and it
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: was lovely, It was wonderful, it was amazing and very positive, right,
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: all you know, nice stuff. And then which is good
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: because as a speaker, you don't want them to say
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: your shit. You want them to go that was good.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: We enjoyed him, he did a great job. We want
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: to get him back. We would recommend him highly right,
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: tickety boo, as Paul Taylor says, you've ticked the box.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: And that's good, freer and good for business. But there's
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: this other bit where like, I know that I can
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: turn up and do my job. I know that I
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: can be funny, tell stories being gained you. Not always,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: not every time do I kill it or crush it.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: But most of the time, especially after four hundred years
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: of practice, most of the time it's somewhere between okay
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: and pretty good. Right. But I really have this awareness
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: that in many instances like that, when a speaker gets
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: up and talks, then he or she gets off the
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: stage and goes away and never sees that audience ever again.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: And then while that audience might be temporarily inspired, motivated,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: you know whatever, impressed, the amount of people who will
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: then take away those ideas, thought, strategies, information and operationalize
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: it and actually create real world change and do something
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: and keep doing something, and that moment in time with
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: Bobby or Craig or Sally or Donna on the stage,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: that moment in time will become the catalyst for something
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: truly transformative. That's a different question. And so now I've
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: been doing this thing where I leave a few minutes
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: at the end where I almost like walk over, sit
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: on the edge of the stage, swing my feet, and
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: I'll just go, look, here's the deal. You know, we
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: just had a good time. I made you laugh, I
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: told you some stories. I think for the most part
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: you liked it. You see, pretty engaged in connected. That's
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: all good. But and then I'll talk about what really
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: matters is not the hour that we just had, but
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: what happens next. And again that's not fixing it or
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: solving it, but I'm just trying to impress upon them
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: the importance of, you know, the actual journey versus the
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: theory of the journey.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: You know, I think those numbers, whatever they are, right, yeah,
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: they show up quite a lot. I mean that that
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: three percent is saving quite a bit, Like three percent
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: of the room will go out and change their lives
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: as a result of what is you had to say?
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: The other ninety seven percent won't. Now that doesn't mean
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: that they won't, but they'll read a book, or they'll
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: sign up for the next seminar and the next one,
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: maybe four seminars. In some of those people, that day
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: is their day. But those numbers, those numbers are pretty consistent.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: And I understand because I've heard professionals in the fitness industry,
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: trainers saying the effect of what is wrong with ninety
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: seven percent of the people? And I think I don't
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: agree with that statement, but I think it's a fair
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: statement because when you dedicate your life to hopefully adding
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: value to others through what it is that you can
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: teach or import or how you can help or guide,
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: it's really frustrating because I think a lot of people
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: that get into those professions, not all, but a lot
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: of they're really invested in seeing people transform and having
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: a better experience of life. But I think a more
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: powerful question becomes what's different about the three percent? Like
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: what is really different without without a throwaway word like well,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: it's confidence, it's you know, it's discipline, it's you know, character,
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: What exactly does that mean? Like, explain that function in
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: the brain when you say that, But what is different?
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: About the three percent that take action versus the ninety
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: seven percent that don't. You know, but that's a big question.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: But also sometimes the ninety seven percent in the next
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: you know, it's like maybe someone sits in nineteen presentations
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: and they're in the ninety cent and then the twentieth presentation,
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: something goes off in their brain and now they're in
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: the three percent. Sometimes I think it's where they're at mentally, emotionally,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: psychologically whatever, sociologically, and there's you know, maybe it's timing,
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: maybe there's I don't know, I just think that for
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: a range of reasons. Ah, you know, some people are
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: just not ready and like starting when you're not really ready,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: like you're really really not ready to do the work
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: and keep going. It's probably better that you don't start
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: rather than starting throwing throw it in and start and
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: throw it in. To say, I say to people all
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: the time, you know, what do you want? But then cool,
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: of course, you know what would you talk about? And
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: the why, the driver the real reason. But then there's
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: the how fucking much do you want it?
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: Because unless the answer is like a lot, then you're
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: probably because the chances of you starting with kind of
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: like a shoulder shrugg and creating a life changing, powerful outcome.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: The chances of that are pretty much.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: Zero, unless, of course, you don't know exactly what that is.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: Go and say again, unless you don't know exactly what
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: that is for you where I'm coming to this seminar
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: because I'm looking, you know, I'm curious, but not serious.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: That's okay, because I think there's something to be said, like, like,
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: why do human beings play like I'm a big fan
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: of Stuart Brown, you know, in his book Play, you know,
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: human beings as mammals like my cat, he will play
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: all day long if you let him. He is always
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: in a play state. For for a mammal, that's very
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: dangerous because if he was out in the wild the
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: time he's playing, he's not vigilant about predators, he's not
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: hunting at the moment. It's pretty risky business. So why
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: is so much of mammalian behavior dedicated to play? There's
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: a lot of reasons. It helps us socialize with one another.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: It allows us to experiment out in the world and
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: try stuff out and figure out who we are and
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: where our places within you know, within that troop, within
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: that clan, you know, whatever. So I think going around
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: and experimenting with things and seeing what clicks does work,
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: there is value in that. So if you're like, ah,
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know, well, you know what? So what like?
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: What are you interested in? What are you hoping happens here?
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: And there?
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Used to be something that self help speakers used to
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: do and it started to irritate me. But now I
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: have a very different opinion about it. I've reversed this
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: where and you've heard this in seminars you've been to
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: where they'd start off by saying, I know two things
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: about everyone in this room. Person just slept on stage,
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: didn't even introduce himself. I've never seen this guy before.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: I'm sure he's never seen me, but he knows two
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: things about me. Okay, this I want to hear right.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: Number one, you are in the top ninety percent of
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: anyone working in your industry today. And if you're not
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: in the top ninety percent, you're well on your way
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: because less than ten percent of the people take the
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: time to read the books and go to courses. And
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know where they got that stat from. And
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: so they're talking to me about all the things they
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: know about me and it's like that sounds manipulent, But
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: when you look at it from a behavior change perspective,
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: if you can point out to someone where they're already
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: taking action so before they go out and execute, it's like, listen,
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: you've already executed, You've already engaged. You're already the type
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: of person that does this stuff. Right, So you've bought
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: a ticket to the event, You've gotten in a car,
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: a train, a plane, you've taken off from work, or
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: you've missed a weekend. You've already sacrificed and done the work.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: You're that person. What is the most valuable thing you've
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: heard from the stage today? What really lands with you?
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: What's one thing in the next seven days you can
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: do to build on this momentum. Because I think that's
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: different than Okay, hey, go out and do something. Use
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: this versus you've already done this, because that languaging is
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: connected to probability of action. So it's just something I'm
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: thinking about, like because I don't want to. I don't
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: want to trash self help because there are things I
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: look at I'm like, oh wow, I think I was
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: wrong about that. You know, two years from now, I'll
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: probably have a different idea.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: If not, if not for self help, I don't think
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: I would be where I am. And it's not necessarily
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: that all of the stuff I read or heard was
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: brilliant or transformative, but rather some of it was, by
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: the way, but it really made me, as you talked
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: about before, curiosity and frustration. But it made me curious,
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: like made me because I didn't have a high opinion
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: of me. And then but I just started to think, oh, well,
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: maybe or maybe I don't need to be you know,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: who I think I am.
• 49:52
  Speaker 5: Maybe there is more for me, maybe you know so
• 49:55
  Speaker 5: for me, just that just hearing some of the stuff,
• 49:58
  Speaker 5: like My Genesis was first book I ever read, was
• 50:02
  Speaker 5: written in nine point thirty six, how to Win Friends
• 50:05
  Speaker 5: and Influence People, Dale Carnegie, and you know that was
• 50:09
  Speaker 5: I mean, just think that's coming up in eleven years,
• 50:12
  Speaker 5: that'll be one hundred years old.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: That book. That's fucking amazing. I read that and I'm like, oh,
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: it was very very basic, but probably where I was
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: at very basic and what I needed was very basic,
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: and he was just introducing these ideas about basically how
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: to do better around other people and to think differently,
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: and like really fundamental things. But for me, you know,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: like even the idea of thinking about how we think
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: or thinking about how we see the world and opening
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: that awareness store in our own kind of mind to go, oh,
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: that's so, that's not the thing. That's just my story
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: about the thing, and my story about the and the
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: actual thing. I'm not the same, and just having that
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: awareness of where my reality finishes and the objective whatever
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: it is, begins. You know. So for me, all of
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: that stuff which just made me, for a range of
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: different reasons, pause and reflect and consider the fact that
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: life didn't need to be the way it was, or
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: I didn't need to be the way I was, and
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: that I could actually be Obviously I was always going
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: to be me, but I could be a better, modified,
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: you know, slightly sociologically, psychologically, physiologically different version of me.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: Like that That's what. Yeah, that just kind of lit
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: affusing me that has kept going forever.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: There's a lot there's a lot of good stuff in
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: that book, and there's a lot of good stuff and
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: self help. I feel like the same thing happened to
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: me because I was so stuck in dealer survival, Like
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: I didn't like the furthest I ever thought into the
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: future was like morning to evening, like how do I
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: get through this day and not end up in the hospital,
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: not end up with anything broken, and pretty much stay alive.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: So there was that version of me, and then there
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: was the past version of me, and my story about
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: the past version of me that profoundly shape my reality
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: probably still does. But when I started listening to self help,
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: it dawned to me there's another version of me. There's
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: the future version of me that's kind of unformed yet,
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: and it's a certain trajectory. You know, like if you
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: hop on a train and the train's going west and
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden it's the last stop you can't
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: take credit for, like, wow, look how far west I've gone.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: You couldn't have done otherwise you hopped on a westbound train.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: But you know, if you got off the train and
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: you read a couple of maps and you started navigating
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: and you made you took a different series of actions,
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: well you can completely take credit for where you ended up. Well, no, actually,
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: the conductor of the people drive in the train, but
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: you are partly responsible for where you ended up. And
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: I was like, there's a future version of me. There's
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: many Wow, I wonder what I can do to live
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: into some of the more attractive possibilities. Yeah, yeah, that
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: dawned on me. It's like I could shape myself. I
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: don't have to be this person. I could become someone different. Now.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: That brought with it a lot of benefits. I did
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: some things that you know were my best attempt, but
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: you know, in retrospect it ill advised. So it brought
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: about a lot of consequences as well. But it created
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: the possibility it's possible to change. That was that was
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: enthralling for me.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, sign a lot of it. I think we're
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: going to call this the other version of you. That's
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: what this episode. When you said you could be another
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: version of you? I love that. I How do people
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: connect with you and listen to you and read you,
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: engage you? How do people do that?
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: Well? The only social media platform I'm really like, not on,
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: but like engaged in is LinkedIn, and you can you
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: can reach out to me at the self helpandad dot com,
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: Robert Capuccio dot com. Those all the dot coms I have.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: And if you can't remember any of that, just send
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: us anamail and we will forward. We will forward that's
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: the great Man. Always great chatting to you buddy, Enjoy
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: each What time is it like nine minutes past seven
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: over there in the PM MH. I'll talk to you
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: off airybuddy, but thank you, see you next time, See
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: you next time.