Latest / None of Your Business Podcast / When Life Throws You a Curveball With Dwight "Doc" Gooden

Transcript

When Life Throws You a Curveball With Dwight "Doc" Gooden · None of Your Business Podcast

• 0:00
  I'm proud of my accomplishments, the things in the room I'm proud
• 0:02
  of, proud of everything I accomplished, and proud of the
• 0:05
  relationships I've made throughout my career.
• 0:08
  But most importantly, today I I'm proud of myself.
• 0:16
  None of your business, Oshi, None of your.
• 0:18
  Business Michael, It's the None of Your Business podcast hosted
• 0:22
  by Michael Anoshi. Welcome back everybody to
• 0:30
  another fantastic, amazing episode of the None of Your
• 0:33
  Business podcast. We are back Lushy better than
• 0:36
  ever. I hope everyone holds on to
• 0:38
  their seats tight because we are about to take off to a
• 0:41
  hemisphere of nostalgia. We're sitting here with the one
• 0:44
  and only Doc Gooden. Doc, I'm so excited.
• 0:47
  I, I have to 1st thank Prime Source, our sponsors, and I have
• 0:51
  to just thank everybody behind us that led us to this moment.
• 0:54
  You know, when we first started, we had no idea where this is
• 0:56
  going to take us. We knew that this is sort of
• 0:58
  like a therapy session for she and I.
• 1:01
  We're enjoying the process of growing with each other.
• 1:04
  Sitting here with you, I have to just say it's not only nostalgic
• 1:08
  from the perspective of me knowing you as a child, but it's
• 1:11
  also bringing me back heartfelt memories of knowing what it's
• 1:15
  like to grow up and have someone that you look up to, someone
• 1:18
  that you got kicked out of school because of.
• 1:21
  And I'm going to explain that to you in a minute.
• 1:24
  But first of all, thank you. My pleasure.
• 1:25
  Thanks for having me. You guys continued success.
• 1:28
  I hear you guys are doing a wonderful job.
• 1:29
  Thanks for having me on here and all big things to Isaac for
• 1:32
  bringing this all together and I'm glad we finally getting here
• 1:35
  and get in the chat a little bit.
• 1:36
  Yes, thank you. First of all, I have to mention
• 1:37
  I love your home. Thank you.
• 1:39
  It's feels comfortable here. All the beautiful pictures, the
• 1:42
  colors, your custom made sneakers, all the different
• 1:45
  numbers on the wall and it's just it feels great to be here
• 1:48
  and I want to really get right into it.
• 1:49
  I want to tell you something thing about me that you know,
• 1:53
  you don't know me yet, but one thing I'll tell you that may
• 1:55
  come as a surprise is that when I was a young boy, the first
• 1:59
  time in elementary school that I I got kicked out of school was
• 2:03
  for trading baseball cards. Well, did you ever hear of this
• 2:06
  before? I've I've heard of that, but not
• 2:09
  I haven't heard Joe's story. You heard of the concept?
• 2:14
  I've heard a little bit of the background as to what that means
• 2:17
  trading cards in a Jewish Orthodox school and why that's a
• 2:20
  little bit. It might be a surprise to him.
• 2:22
  Explain that to him. Yeah, that's what I was asking.
• 2:24
  Like in in terms of have you ever heard that before?
• 2:26
  So growing up in an Orthodox Jewish school, we're supposed to
• 2:31
  idolize the rabbis and we're supposed to idolize the people
• 2:35
  that have wrote scriptures and, you know, follow the scriptures
• 2:38
  and studied. And that's really nice.
• 2:41
  But, you know, when you turn on the television at night and you
• 2:44
  want to relax and unwind, you don't really see rabbis talking
• 2:47
  to you. You see Doc Gooden on the
• 2:48
  mountain, You know, you see Gary Carter as a catcher.
• 2:51
  You see all of like your, your at least what I was for me,
• 2:54
  idols and people that I looked up to.
• 2:56
  So we would have baseball cards in school and we would trade
• 2:59
  them and, you know, very discreetly.
• 3:01
  We make sure the rabbi's don't know about it, you know, by
• 3:03
  recess, you know, we would hang out behind the school and we
• 3:05
  would whip out our cars in our pocket and we traded amongst
• 3:08
  each other. But it was frowned upon.
• 3:10
  It wasn't like so much like, you know, it wasn't so acceptable
• 3:13
  because like they wanted to keep the kids in line.
• 3:15
  Like, you know, and this was like the outside world in movies
• 3:19
  and music and sports, you know, especially in the very Orthodox
• 3:23
  schools. It's like something that is a
• 3:25
  little taboo and it's not so, so acceptable.
• 3:28
  But, you know, kids are kids and we we keep up with what's going
• 3:31
  on in the world. And we were always intrigued by
• 3:34
  this. Like this was a a world for us
• 3:35
  that was outside the scope of what we did, you know, at home.
• 3:39
  But, you know, this is what he means.
• 3:41
  But, you know, we were trading cards and you were one of those
• 3:43
  cards. You were.
• 3:44
  Definitely one of those cards and.
• 3:46
  I don't know how to accept that because you put me in the same
• 3:49
  boat as your rabbi and baseball players.
• 3:52
  That's pretty. That's pretty cool.
• 3:54
  Yeah, but it's resting though. I didn't heard it to that text.
• 3:57
  Yeah, it's actually, that's actually true.
• 3:59
  And I just have to say, growing up and watching, I remember
• 4:02
  watching you and I remember that feeling of, you know, you know,
• 4:06
  I hope it. I always wondered actually what
• 4:08
  Gary Carter was telling you on the mound.
• 4:09
  Can you share that with us? Oh.
• 4:10
  Sure, Gary Carter was the best and a lot of the reason for my
• 4:14
  success in 85 was because of Gary Carter.
• 4:17
  And I remember in 84 at the All Star game in San Francisco, I've
• 4:21
  never been so nervous in my life. 19 years old, this really
• 4:24
  my first time pitching in front of national audience.
• 4:28
  You know, the game's on game of the week.
• 4:30
  I mean, ABC or what have you saw crowd.
• 4:33
  I'm a year and a half out of high school.
• 4:35
  And Gary, see, I'm nervous. So he tells me.
• 4:37
  He goes, just throw the ball away.
• 4:38
  You did the first half of the season.
• 4:39
  You'll be fine. I strike out the three guys I
• 4:42
  face and see if I get it right. Lance Parish, I don't know the
• 4:45
  correct order. Lance Parish, Chet Lemon and
• 4:47
  Alvin Davis. Right after the end, it's over.
• 4:50
  Gary goes win this. Be nice to do her fifth day not
• 4:53
  knowing that November was going to trade for Gary, Tracy, Gary
• 4:57
  from day one of spring training, me and Gary just clicked, talked
• 5:00
  about things he likes, things I like to do, the council, I like
• 5:03
  to throw certain pitches and we just clicked.
• 5:05
  And an 85 when I had my career year, I'll say probably after
• 5:08
  about the fifth start, every start was like an event.
• 5:12
  It was more than just a start and it was a big challenge.
• 5:15
  Everybody wanted the 10 plus tracked outs.
• 5:18
  They won the complete game and you know, they wanted to shut
• 5:21
  out and Gary wanted that. It didn't matter if it was up
• 5:24
  10, nothing or 9 nothing or whatever.
• 5:25
  He didn't want me to mess around.
• 5:27
  He want me to pitch like the game was one out there.
• 5:29
  And to your point, Gary would come out to the mound sometime
• 5:31
  and if you felt like I was messing around and get rid of my
• 5:33
  face. I mean, he will say some
• 5:35
  unpleasant things. Gary was a religious guy, very
• 5:39
  nice guy, but between the lines he was one of the toughest guys
• 5:42
  ever played with and he demanded nothing but the best from each
• 5:45
  guy that pitch. And with me, we had a personal
• 5:48
  relationship. I was the only guy Gary would
• 5:50
  wanted to catch between starts. He would come down the bullpen
• 5:53
  and catch me. He didn't want nobody catching
• 5:55
  me. But again, I had to give Gary a
• 5:58
  lot of credit, as well as Mel Stottomer, my pitching coach,
• 6:01
  for the success that I had because Mel would challenge me
• 6:03
  between starts to make sure I wouldn't settle for the start
• 6:05
  that I had. Before I could have just had 14
• 6:08
  strikeouts, complete game, shut up.
• 6:10
  But he will find something for me to work on.
• 6:12
  And Gary would make me. When the game would start, I
• 6:15
  would be pitching like I just gave up fourteen runs even
• 6:17
  though I was dominating. But it was a fun year.
• 6:20
  And Gary, I miss him to the day because there's a good friend as
• 6:22
  well, but nobody played a game as hard as Gary.
• 6:25
  You know, Michael, he mentions Mel Stoudemire.
• 6:27
  I don't know if you know Mel Stoudemire, but he was a
• 6:29
  pitching coach of the Yankees, amongst many other things that
• 6:32
  he did. But when I hear his name, I just
• 6:34
  think about that story with Pedro Martinez, that little
• 6:36
  brawl that they had, and somehow Mel got in the way and next
• 6:40
  thing you know, he's lying flat on his back.
• 6:41
  No, that's Don Zimmer. Zimmer.
• 6:43
  Don Zimmer. That wasn't Mel Stoudemire.
• 6:45
  That was Don Zimmer. Don Zimmer, Yeah.
• 6:47
  That was in the 19. That was in the 22,004.
• 6:52
  It had to be. Are you sure?
• 6:54
  Yeah, absolutely positive Zim was.
• 6:57
  You were there, so. Was wearing the helmet that they
• 7:02
  got him. They had like an army helmet.
• 7:03
  Older white hair. But to Zimmer credit, he went up
• 7:07
  to Pedro. Pedro called out of heat about
• 7:09
  that. But Pedro just protected
• 7:10
  himself, so I mean, I understand.
• 7:13
  Yeah, yeah. He wasn't trying to, you know,
• 7:14
  no. He wasn't trying.
• 7:14
  To hurt, bullying. Was it a brawl?
• 7:16
  Yeah, yeah, it was a brawl. And you've been involved in
• 7:18
  brawls? Yes, a lot of brawls and that's
• 7:20
  when robberies was real. Like now there's no real
• 7:22
  robberies. I mean, it's really not.
• 7:24
  I mean, a lot of these guys, they're.
• 7:26
  All friendly, they all seem to like know each other because.
• 7:28
  They all got together, same agents and they switched teams
• 7:31
  so much now. So it ain't like in the past
• 7:33
  where with the Mets in the 80s, we literally hated guys.
• 7:36
  I mean, we saw the Phillies in a in a bar restaurant, we might
• 7:39
  fight. I mean, we didn't like nobody.
• 7:41
  We didn't compensate with nobody.
• 7:42
  We didn't front lines about on the field.
• 7:44
  We didn't like nobody. Was that something to build you
• 7:47
  up? Was that something to like get?
• 7:48
  You. It's just the way it was.
• 7:49
  It's just a natural. It's just the way it was before
• 7:51
  I got to the big leagues and just carried on.
• 7:53
  I was saying to probably like towards the end of my career.
• 7:56
  My last year was 2000. I could see it kind of fading
• 7:58
  out a little bit at that time. But in the early 80s, like we
• 8:03
  fight the Cardinals. We just have the same spring
• 8:05
  training facility in Saint Petersburg.
• 8:07
  We should fight in spring training.
• 8:08
  I mean, it was real like then. Now, I mean, you might see a
• 8:12
  brawl hand there, but not much. So many lawsuits flying around
• 8:14
  these days. Guys making too much money, I
• 8:16
  mean, training together, everybody's friends, everybody's
• 8:19
  in each other's wedding. It's totally different.
• 8:21
  Like you take Gary Sheffield, my nephew, when they will come in
• 8:24
  town to play. I wouldn't talk to him, not at
• 8:25
  the ballpark. I mean, at home he would stay at
• 8:27
  my house or whatever, but at the ballpark we did not talk.
• 8:30
  I mean, that's just the way it was.
• 8:32
  Wow, wow, that's the first competition right there.
• 8:34
  Real competition. I throw a ball over Gary's head
• 8:36
  once. Did you really?
• 8:38
  Just to let him know, I mean, I love Gary.
• 8:39
  I mean, that's my little brother, but.
• 8:41
  Where's that you that you purposefully threw the ball
• 8:44
  close his? Head what happened was Gary
• 8:46
  started with Milwaukee. He got traded to San Diego in 92
• 8:49
  when I was with the Mets, first time I faced him.
• 8:50
  You got to remember we grew up in the same house at one time,
• 8:53
  shared the same bed. And Gary is my boy.
• 8:56
  He's my best friend, he's my brother.
• 8:57
  He told that still to the day. But when he's batted, you know
• 9:00
  he's got the bat, he's smiling. He had the most vicious.
• 9:03
  Yeah, but he smiled. Hold his bat.
• 9:05
  He hit the hardest foul balls anybody ever.
• 9:07
  Yeah. But so I faced the first time
• 9:09
  he's thinking, we still in the backyard.
• 9:10
  He's smiling at me, but this, this is real.
• 9:13
  So I had to steal a ball of his head.
• 9:14
  Just kind of let him know. Just hate the place for that.
• 9:16
  But yeah, we heard a play, we heard a play.
• 9:18
  This is this is prime time. And I heard it from my family
• 9:20
  and everybody like, oh, you could have heard.
• 9:22
  Gary, you. Could have go easy on him.
• 9:23
  Yeah, I didn't. Want to hurt him?
• 9:24
  I just want to. You know, let him know you're
• 9:26
  there. So what does that mean?
• 9:27
  You and Gary, you guys grew up in the same house, so tell us a
• 9:29
  little. Bit he's my sister's son.
• 9:31
  He's my nephew OK, but we grew up like brothers because my
• 9:34
  sister had him very young so my parents basically raised him.
• 9:38
  At one time we shared the same bed.
• 9:39
  My dad told us the game of baseball.
• 9:41
  My dad mid year is very fortunate to have my dad
• 9:45
  teachers. And the thing I regret today is
• 9:48
  not find out for my dad where did he learn his knowledge from.
• 9:51
  But my dad grew up in Georgia, 3rd grade education, worked in
• 9:54
  the cotton field. I'm the youngest sibling of 5 by
• 9:59
  13 years. I'm the only one.
• 10:00
  I was born in Florida. But my dad loved the game so
• 10:02
  much and he taught me and Gary the game and he knew Gary was
• 10:05
  going to be the hitter and I was going to be the pitcher.
• 10:07
  But when we used to go to the field to work out, initially
• 10:09
  wasn't fun because we'll go to the field, no bat, no glove, no
• 10:13
  ball. Yeah, Gary, just doing these
• 10:15
  drills at me, doing these drills on my leg up.
• 10:17
  That's why I get the leg high leg kick from teachers.
• 10:19
  Mechanics. Once they fault our mechanics
• 10:22
  would sound, then they thought we can get the ball and glow.
• 10:24
  But it initially wasn't fun. But as we got older, we knew
• 10:26
  what he was doing. So me, Gary is very fortunate to
• 10:29
  grow up in the same house and have my dad and Gary's granddad
• 10:32
  teaches the game of baseball. So your father is who got it all
• 10:35
  started for you. 1000. Percent.
• 10:37
  This was his passion, this was his dream for you very early on.
• 10:41
  That's his dream that became our dream.
• 10:42
  And what I mean by that be I had older brothers but just in pan
• 10:45
  out with them playing sports. Man Gary grew up in the same
• 10:48
  house and one day my dad asked me do we love the game of
• 10:50
  baseball? We say yes.
• 10:52
  And back then in the 70s and you also don't have one game on TV,
• 10:55
  the game in a week on Saturdays with Joe Gadriola.
• 10:59
  And then by those living in Tampa, you get Atlanta Braves
• 11:01
  games on the radio. So we have a game on the radio,
• 11:04
  game on TV. Me and Gary sitting there with
• 11:06
  our, you know, juice and chips. My dad got his beard and chips
• 11:09
  or whatever and he would quizzes on the games.
• 11:11
  We just don't maybe he was asking questions about the game,
• 11:13
  but he basically was quizzing us about the game.
• 11:15
  You know, one question if I can go back in time to ask him, how
• 11:18
  did he know Gary was going to be the hitter and I was going to be
• 11:20
  the. Pitcher.
• 11:21
  I was thinking that, yeah. That's the one thing I want to
• 11:22
  know. I mean, I was a decent hitter,
• 11:23
  but nothing like Gary, obviously.
• 11:25
  And Gary should pitch a little bit in the Little League in high
• 11:27
  school, but nothing like the way I pitched.
• 11:29
  So he just knew this was the way it was going to be, and it
• 11:32
  turned out like that. At what?
• 11:33
  At what age did you know you had it?
• 11:34
  What was that? Well, I started learning the
• 11:37
  game at 7:00. Seven years ago.
• 11:38
  Gary was like 3, I'm 4, Gary was 3 coming up.
• 11:41
  OK, so I'm four years old and Gary, but then when I got like
• 11:44
  12, I totally dominated the league.
• 11:46
  I mean dominate when I'm talking about dominating.
• 11:48
  I was strike out like 16 out of 18 guys, hit two home runs,
• 11:51
  driving in five runs and went 5 nothing.
• 11:53
  But then the next year when I turned 13, I went to the big
• 11:56
  Enfield. Things kind of even out again.
• 11:59
  So I get to high school. When I was in high school, we
• 12:01
  didn't have a freshman. He just went from 10/11/12 my
• 12:04
  first year. I go to high school and our team
• 12:06
  is loaded because we can get guys from different
• 12:08
  neighborhoods and put them in ROTC.
• 12:11
  That can make him eligible to play baseball, right?
• 12:13
  So we was loaded. We had a guy, Vance Lovelace, he
• 12:16
  was no more pick for the Cubs one year.
• 12:18
  We had Albert Everett Carr, Everett's older brother, who's
• 12:20
  drafted by the Twins. We had Floyd Yeomans, who was
• 12:23
  drafted by the Mets as well. He was trading for Gary Carter.
• 12:26
  So we played Tuesdays, Fridays and Saturdays.
• 12:29
  So I can my sophomore year, I wasn't starting.
• 12:32
  I was playing out for whatever, but I couldn't even start.
• 12:34
  So I quit the team. My dad said if you ever quit
• 12:37
  again, you'll never play. In my junior year, I go back out
• 12:40
  with the team and we got those three guys.
• 12:42
  We got Lovelace, Everett and Yeomans in a rotation, right?
• 12:45
  I was like a relief pitcher or Yeomans get kicked off the team.
• 12:49
  Halfway through our junior year. He moves to California with his
• 12:51
  dad. I get into the rotation, That's
• 12:54
  when I just take off. I'll just wait for opportunity.
• 12:57
  But if Yeomans don't get kicked off the team, I would only have
• 13:00
  my senior year. So technically I only pitched a
• 13:01
  year and a half in high school. But when I got the opportunity,
• 13:04
  I mean, I just took off because I was technically, mentally, I
• 13:07
  was ready, ready to work and ready to go.
• 13:09
  How fast were you throwing your fastball in high school?
• 13:11
  High school, I would probably say lower 90s.
• 13:13
  Wow, so you're ready to what's the art form to be able to
• 13:16
  throw? Is this just like God-given
• 13:18
  talent? It's as a muscle you've been
• 13:19
  working? How do you throw in 90 mph at 18
• 13:22
  years old? A lot of his God-given talent
• 13:24
  and it's what you do with that talent.
• 13:26
  Like I said, my dad told me mechanics is very important and
• 13:29
  I like to see guys hopefully get back to teaching mechanics now
• 13:33
  at the big D level. I think a lot of injuries is
• 13:34
  coming from that because now everything is based on velocity
• 13:37
  and spin rate. But my dad told me mechanics and
• 13:41
  you do, we do a lot of tubing. What I mean by tubing is
• 13:43
  stretching with the band. We didn't do weights back then.
• 13:46
  A lot of long toss. What I mean by long toss, you
• 13:48
  saw playing catch long when you stretch your arm out and that's
• 13:50
  getting me arm strength and then development your legs.
• 13:53
  My dad was big on again, you're building your legs up, run out
• 13:57
  of sprints and he felt like you can do much weight you want with
• 13:59
  your lower body building your core.
• 14:01
  There's got to be strong in your legs.
• 14:02
  That's where your power come from.
• 14:03
  But the muscles, your small muscles, you want to keep them
• 14:06
  more power and extension. That was my my dad's philosophy
• 14:11
  and that's where he basically came from all.
• 14:12
  Right, let's see. Do I get a question?
• 14:13
  Yes. OK, I appreciate it.
• 14:15
  No problem. When did the name doc come up?
• 14:17
  So I used to kid around and say it came from basketball, but
• 14:19
  this is a true story. So my dad had a friend you got a
• 14:22
  name with Dennis Williams. There was a doctor, a real
• 14:24
  doctor, right? And for some strange reason,
• 14:27
  when I was a kid, I used to go with him.
• 14:28
  He's do autopsies and I just go with him to watch these
• 14:32
  autopsies, right? I wouldn't do it today, but I
• 14:34
  just go in and watch it. And he's always tell my dad he's
• 14:37
  going to be a doctor, he's not going to be a baseball player.
• 14:39
  And so when I played Little League baseball in high school,
• 14:43
  him and my dad would come to the game, but before they would come
• 14:45
  out to the watch the game, they always have a cup of drinks,
• 14:48
  right? Beer or whatever, right?
• 14:50
  And every time I got 2 strikes on a batter, the dentist who was
• 14:53
  the doctor would say come on Doc, operate on Doc, you got
• 14:55
  another patient, Doc put them away Doc.
• 14:57
  And the local newspaper one day was doing a story he wrote that
• 15:00
  and my teammates started started out as a joke, calling me Doc.
• 15:04
  And then once you get drafted, everybody has a nickname.
• 15:08
  They just gave me a nickname. And when I got drafted by the
• 15:10
  Mets, they first start calling me Goody, but good, and I say no
• 15:13
  by call me, call me Doc. And then Doc just kind of
• 15:16
  stayed. And then I got to the major
• 15:17
  leagues. They added the K for strikeouts,
• 15:19
  Dr. K. So that's how I.
• 15:21
  Love it. So you're in high school and
• 15:23
  you're dominating, You're thrown in the lower 90s.
• 15:26
  What's next? What happens?
• 15:28
  What was that first break when you got exposure when people
• 15:32
  heard about this phenom, This guy Doc Good in somewhere in
• 15:35
  Tampa and he's in his in his pitching for for his Little
• 15:38
  League, for his high school. Like when did that happen?
• 15:40
  That something happened? When did that like that moment?
• 15:42
  Yeah. Literally, I got a little not
• 15:44
  about it because I played in the senior, the Little League Rose
• 15:47
  self too young, so I made the team, but you got to be 11.
• 15:50
  So I went to Williamsport 1975, but I couldn't play because
• 15:53
  someone else 10 years old. When I was 14 we played in the
• 15:56
  senior league row series. I was in Gary and Nana against
• 15:59
  time, one time, 1 beaters. I pitched a little bit, but when
• 16:02
  I started getting on the map was my junior in high school when
• 16:05
  you almost got kicked off the team and I got into the rotation
• 16:07
  and the scouts, sometime the scouts would come to watch
• 16:09
  Lovelace or car every older brother, Albert, every pitch,
• 16:14
  and I would come in behind these guys in relief.
• 16:17
  And so when the scouts are piking on the guns and this and
• 16:19
  that, then you hit a MIT popping pile pile.
• 16:22
  And then my dad, who's a big fan, he's like, hold on, don't
• 16:24
  you guys go anywhere? My son's coming, You might want
• 16:26
  to watch him and check him out. So my dad's wanting to get the
• 16:28
  scouts, you know, hanging around and watch.
• 16:30
  So even though they're coming to watch lovely see every pitch and
• 16:33
  I will come in the game. And that's why I started getting
• 16:35
  noticed. And then when I was starting,
• 16:37
  they'll come back out and watch me.
• 16:38
  And I basically just took over. I won the MVP able to have like
• 16:42
  it was like a Easter tournament. We have I won the MVP of that
• 16:44
  league of that tournament. I'm sorry.
• 16:46
  And then my senior year, I mean, I just, I killed it.
• 16:49
  I had like 130 strikeouts. So like, send me something in
• 16:52
  his. I'm like, I just totally just
• 16:53
  wow, killed it. I'm.
• 16:55
  Like, that's a ridiculous number.
• 16:56
  I don't know if you appreciate that.
• 16:57
  That's like, yeah, that's like unhittable.
• 16:59
  Yeah, that's unhittable territory.
• 17:01
  My senior was literally, not to blow smoke up my own horn, but
• 17:03
  it was literally a man against boys.
• 17:06
  Yes, I just totally dominated. You're a monster.
• 17:08
  Yes. And then what?
• 17:09
  What make it where it is? Even though yeoman's Lovelace
• 17:13
  and everyone's ahead of me, I end up the mess.
• 17:16
  End up taking me number one in 82 and yeoman's number 2.
• 17:19
  So you were the number one draft pick?
• 17:21
  82 I was the fifth of all. Sean Donson was number one.
• 17:24
  I was in #5 pick in the first round, the first round and
• 17:27
  yeoman's was the second pick. But a year before that, I
• 17:31
  couldn't make the rotation and yeoman's low race and Everett
• 17:34
  was in the rotation. What a shift.
• 17:37
  What a quick. That's escalating really
• 17:39
  quickly. And then like yeoman's, I mean,
• 17:41
  I'm sorry. How did you know?
• 17:42
  Who told you you're going to now get drafted by the New York
• 17:45
  Mets? Who?
• 17:45
  Who told? How did you find out about?
• 17:46
  That by the way, it goes down. My high school coach initially
• 17:48
  told me I would go between the 10th and 15th round, right?
• 17:52
  So I signed a letter of intent to go to the University of
• 17:54
  Miami. At that time.
• 17:55
  It was I forgot the first name, but his last name was Frazier
• 17:58
  was a baseball coach and I didn't really want to go to
• 18:02
  college, but I figured, you know, I'm going to 1015 around I
• 18:04
  go to University of Miami and I didn't grow up from we didn't
• 18:08
  have a lot, you know, but we had love in the house.
• 18:10
  But we have a lot me and my dad, my me and my dad.
• 18:12
  We shared the same wannaco. So when a draft came around, the
• 18:18
  domestic mean number one, I was, I was actually at the Tampa
• 18:20
  Tribune and the news coming, they didn't have like MLB
• 18:23
  networks on the stuff then. So I went down to the paper
• 18:25
  company to watch the draft and just a little ticker thing that
• 18:28
  goes to screen, right? And I see the Cubs take Sean
• 18:33
  Dunstan, I forget who went 234. Then you see New York Mets
• 18:37
  select Tampa's Dwight. Good, I'm making this.
• 18:40
  I'm like, no way. Just can't be right.
• 18:41
  So I have the guy, Tom Mccurran, he's no longer with us.
• 18:44
  Call New York to make sure it was right because we didn't
• 18:46
  believe it. He said yes.
• 18:47
  And they they took it in the first round.
• 18:49
  So in my mind, right then I was going to sign.
• 18:51
  I wasn't going to college because I want to get my mom a
• 18:53
  house. I'll get my dad, you know, a
• 18:54
  car, some clothes and stuff like that.
• 18:56
  But I couldn't tell my parents that because my mom was big on
• 18:58
  education. But that's the only way I knew
• 19:00
  that I was getting drafted. And because my coach told me I
• 19:02
  was going between the 10th and the 15th round.
• 19:05
  And that's the only thing I had to go on because I had a couple
• 19:07
  of trials with Cincinnati Reds, who had spring training in
• 19:10
  Tampa, Pittsburgh Pirates was embraced and all close to Tampa.
• 19:13
  But nothing major in any problems me anything.
• 19:15
  So I thought I was probably go to college.
• 19:17
  But when I was drafting #1 in my mind I was going to sign no
• 19:20
  matter what. Holy crap.
• 19:23
  But you're talking to like. You realize that, like, we have
• 19:25
  a lot of, like, young listeners and like the fact that they have
• 19:29
  like, try and grasp right now had to go to the, to the to the
• 19:33
  local television station to find out that he was drafted by the
• 19:36
  New York Mets. Yeah.
• 19:37
  And like, today, everyone's walking around with ESPN in
• 19:40
  their pocket. Yeah.
• 19:41
  Whole studio. Yeah, today when a player gets
• 19:43
  drafted, like a lot of times he finds out on TV, like, people
• 19:46
  already know it's 2nd and happens, word gets out and
• 19:49
  everybody knows everything that's going on.
• 19:50
  Yeah, but just walk me through this, doc, because you're
• 19:52
  talking to mere mortals over here.
• 19:53
  Like we don't live in your professional, you know, sports
• 19:57
  world. Yeah.
• 19:58
  And this is just like I'm thinking about.
• 20:00
  I got to say stop you. By the way, me and Oshi were on
• 20:02
  a softball team this past summer and we actually did win.
• 20:06
  So she actually. We got to play in.
• 20:07
  Jersey We played it up in Buckin County.
• 20:09
  Around we're part of the. League.
• 20:10
  But she pitched and I actually was the catcher.
• 20:13
  Yeah. And I got to tell you she was
• 20:16
  was dominant. Yeah.
• 20:17
  You know something she don't say.
• 20:18
  That we pretend, you know, we play in the pretend world like
• 20:20
  we're. Doing it in because hardly.
• 20:22
  You know Pete, right? We have the Cove Academy, he has
• 20:25
  the indoor facility. He's talking about getting a
• 20:27
  softball team this summer in this area, so maybe we should
• 20:29
  meet up and play each other. Wow, these are real.
• 20:33
  Yeah. I mean, but she you.
• 20:35
  You'd scream ma'am, if you're listening, you gotta make a
• 20:37
  phone call. I don't know what to make of
• 20:38
  these. Unless you hit 30 miles an hour.
• 20:43
  But you know they say. Play all right.
• 20:45
  Yeah, I decide. Which team though, lead?
• 20:50
  Away. Yeah.
• 20:52
  So it's like, all right, Doc, walk me through this for a
• 20:54
  second. World League they have every
• 20:55
  four years. Doc, walk me through this for a
• 20:58
  second. So you now get drafted by the
• 21:01
  New York Mets. I mean, your heart, your mind
• 21:03
  must be spinning, racing. You don't know what your life is
• 21:06
  about to change forever. Your life is about to go into a
• 21:10
  sphere that only very few people ever get to experience.
• 21:14
  What happens next? Tell me what?
• 21:16
  So you you, you call people, you tell them the whole world.
• 21:18
  I'm, I just got drafted by the New York Mets.
• 21:20
  What happens? So I thought I found out the
• 21:23
  Mets did draft me. I called my dad, I told him
• 21:27
  what's going on And then, you know, back then there was no
• 21:28
  cell phones. I got a call from the payphone.
• 21:32
  And so I had drove his car with a friend of mine to the station.
• 21:36
  I was so nervous and so excited, I couldn't drive home.
• 21:39
  My friend drove home. And when I get home to the house
• 21:41
  now you got the networks, the TV, channel 13, all these trucks
• 21:45
  are parked outside of my house. So they.
• 21:46
  Already knew about it, they already showing up to the house.
• 21:48
  Yeah, my house, all right. And again, I come from a
• 21:51
  neighborhood. There's, I mean, it's not poor,
• 21:53
  but it's not, you know, it's not like this.
• 21:55
  And I get home on the new trucks outside on the stand.
• 21:58
  So I go in the house, give my mom a hug, my dad a hug and
• 22:01
  we're talking. He said they want to talk to
• 22:04
  you. So I go outside and all my
• 22:05
  neighbors outside because we had a nice neighborhood with a lot
• 22:07
  of kids. So I'm out there talking and
• 22:09
  they still don't know what's going on.
• 22:11
  They just trying to figure out what's going on, you know,
• 22:13
  talking to the news. I'm excited.
• 22:14
  I'm like, yeah. And remind you, I don't know
• 22:17
  anything about the Mets. I used to follow the Cincinnati
• 22:19
  Reds, who had spring training in Tampa.
• 22:20
  My dad took me to a lot of spring training games and I
• 22:23
  didn't really follow the Mets. The Mets at that time was
• 22:25
  terrible. So.
• 22:26
  They were the worst team in the league at the time.
• 22:27
  Pretty much they were at the bottom of the barrel.
• 22:30
  I'm glad you said it, not me. I'm a fan.
• 22:35
  I could say it you're. Also, you're also.
• 22:37
  Yankee fans, I forget. I do the interviews and then now
• 22:40
  you got all these agents calling.
• 22:41
  How do you get my number? I don't know my house number.
• 22:44
  All these agents are calling. I don't.
• 22:45
  Know the representative. So my dad did my first contract
• 22:47
  and I remember Joe Mike, the main, he was like the head scout
• 22:51
  at the time. He ended up becoming the general
• 22:53
  manager, the general manager of the Padres.
• 22:55
  He worked for different teams and I just saw him down in the
• 22:57
  Mets fantasy camp in November. We was talking about all the
• 23:00
  same stuff. So and him and my dad's doing a
• 23:03
  contract and my dad's negotiating and like 4 different
• 23:06
  visits. He come to the house trying to
• 23:08
  work the deals out, can't get nothing worked out.
• 23:11
  I remember the last time, well none the last time but maybe the
• 23:13
  second to the last time he came to the house and he says sorry
• 23:17
  we can't get nothing worked out, good luck in college.
• 23:19
  And he walks out the house and I'm like, I want to go outside
• 23:22
  to grab him, but I was only 17. So you got to have a parent, you
• 23:26
  know, do it. And my mom is screaming and
• 23:29
  yelling at my dad. You don't know what you're
• 23:30
  doing. That's his career that.
• 23:31
  But my dad goes, he'll be back. And again, where my dad gets
• 23:35
  knowledge from, I have no idea. And a week later, he came back.
• 23:39
  No, he was right. He said here's your money,
• 23:41
  congratulations. And I probably was.
• 23:44
  I got my mom my house, I got my dad a car and got my dad some
• 23:47
  clothes. But you don't start making money
• 23:50
  immediately when you got drafted to the Mets, right?
• 23:53
  Is there an entry level contract that they give?
• 23:55
  It's, it's the bare minimum, isn't it?
• 23:56
  Yeah, you get the signing bonus and that time is 85,000.
• 23:59
  Sean Dunst was no more paying. You got 100,000 but 85,000 to me
• 24:03
  at that time it's like 85 million.
• 24:05
  It was a lump sum. They gave it to you in one
• 24:06
  check. No, it's like.
• 24:08
  Over the year they give it to you.
• 24:10
  Yeah, and plus my dad was over the money and then so once I got
• 24:13
  my my dad a car, my Mama house. And then you go off to I'm going
• 24:17
  off to play rookie ball in Kingsport, TN.
• 24:19
  One second back, so you got your first check you got you started
• 24:22
  making money. First thing you did right away,
• 24:24
  you bought your mother house. Yes, you bought a car.
• 24:26
  You meet, so you're spending all the money.
• 24:28
  Yeah, money's gone. Money's gone first.
• 24:30
  You have money's. Gone so right away, OK, by the
• 24:32
  way, I I'd probably do the same just so you know well.
• 24:35
  Well, well, one second. Not for nothing.
• 24:37
  He bought his parents. He didn't buy.
• 24:39
  Yeah, I didn't hear you buy anything.
• 24:40
  But he's living with his parents.
• 24:41
  Let me know you're buying your. Parents.
• 24:43
  I still live with my parents. I still live with my parents my
• 24:45
  first two years in Bikley's. I live with my parents as well.
• 24:47
  I mean, I was the youngest kid and I was a four kid, but my
• 24:51
  parents put me in the situation to succeed.
• 24:53
  I mean, even if they didn't have, they will find a way to
• 24:56
  get me whatever I need, whether it's close to school, whether it
• 24:59
  was equipment for baseball, whether it was money to go on
• 25:02
  these trips with the baseball team.
• 25:04
  They made sacrifices for me. So I just felt like.
• 25:07
  You wanted to give back right away.
• 25:08
  Have you get back right away? You want to give back to them.
• 25:10
  So your appreciation, that's a beautiful thing.
• 25:12
  That's a beautiful. Thing that was just all I wanted
• 25:15
  to do and then I was fortunate enough that a year later, year
• 25:17
  and a half later, 84, I'm in the big leagues.
• 25:19
  So everything changed at that point, but.
• 25:22
  So you didn't go straight into Major League, you went to the
• 25:24
  minor league system first. Yeah, the first year 82, I got
• 25:26
  drafted and June and then like the end of July I signed.
• 25:31
  I'm with the Kingsport TN, which is rookie ball.
• 25:34
  I played like maybe like a month there and then I got called up
• 25:37
  in the Little Falls, NY. That's like the New York
• 25:39
  penalty. I pitched maybe three games
• 25:42
  there and I basically went home because I got scared when and
• 25:45
  got into a bra. This is my first time
• 25:47
  experiencing any type of racial environment.
• 25:50
  Where I go into this bar is me, Mookie Wilson, son Johnny Wilson
• 25:56
  and the rest of the team was all white guys.
• 25:57
  And we go into this bar after the game and these guys, you
• 26:00
  know, what are you guys doing hanging with these Emirate fight
• 26:05
  breaks out. I'm 17 years old.
• 26:07
  I never experienced that because my neighborhood was white,
• 26:09
  black, Spanish, everything. I remember going back to the
• 26:12
  hotel and I told the team I want to go home.
• 26:14
  I was homesick, sent me home, went in the instruction league.
• 26:17
  And the next year, 83, I go to Lynchburg, VA.
• 26:21
  That's what I got a high 8 ball team.
• 26:23
  I start out O and three. You'll love this story.
• 26:25
  I start out O and three, right. So they're thinking about
• 26:27
  sending me down to low A. We had a pitching coach, John
• 26:30
  Cumberland. He's no longer with us.
• 26:32
  They know we're not going to send him down.
• 26:34
  Going to have him miss a start. I'm going to work with him.
• 26:37
  It's OK. So I missed a start and we
• 26:39
  didn't work on anything. We just talked about pitching
• 26:41
  inside because I went to pitch inside.
• 26:43
  When I say pitch inside, meaning pitching inside like knocking
• 26:46
  handers down, not letting the head to get comfortable.
• 26:49
  I was scared to do that because in high school I hit a kid in
• 26:51
  the head with a paramedics came on the field to get him.
• 26:54
  I mean, the kid was fine, but I was scared to pitch inside.
• 26:56
  So I just started O and three he goes, we're going to pitch
• 26:59
  inside the guy he's going to run off you.
• 27:01
  The next guy wants to drill him, hit him right his way.
• 27:03
  You guys to bowl hard off you? Nice count.
• 27:05
  You throw one right up on his neck, right?
• 27:08
  Mind games. Yes.
• 27:09
  So after doing that like for about 8 stories now I'm like 8
• 27:12
  and 3 is OK, we're not going to do that anymore.
• 27:15
  So just by that little correction, I end up after going
• 27:17
  starting O and three, I end up 19 and four with 300 straight
• 27:20
  outs. Wow.
• 27:21
  In the nation I'm going. To be so, he taught you like
• 27:23
  strategy. He taught you not just about
• 27:25
  throwing your pitches, but thinking about when to throw it
• 27:29
  and how to throw it and when to throw a bowl and went to, you
• 27:32
  know, shove a guy off the plate a little.
• 27:33
  But like, that was something that you didn't have yet.
• 27:36
  You know the experience. Exactly.
• 27:38
  I just went on like I just do hard.
• 27:39
  I had a good curveball. I just went on raw ability.
• 27:41
  But he told me about pitching because.
• 27:43
  Doc, you didn't have a good curveball.
• 27:45
  You had one of the best. You had that sweeping curveball.
• 27:49
  That was. No, it wasn't even just a
• 27:50
  curveball. A lot of people throw
• 27:51
  curveballs. Yeah, but you're the movement.
• 27:53
  The spin rate on your curveball was extra special.
• 27:56
  Baseball. You know baseball.
• 27:57
  Yeah, I'm like honoured to be sitting over here 'cause it's
• 28:01
  like I'm gonna only process this later.
• 28:04
  I'm sitting with Doc Good, one of the all time greats.
• 28:07
  You came into the league as a phenom.
• 28:09
  You came in with such expectations.
• 28:11
  Like everybody's like this guy's, it's going to be the next
• 28:13
  big thing. I mean, you won rookie of the
• 28:15
  Year in your first year, then you won the Cy Young, I believe
• 28:19
  in 85, right. And then in 86 he won the World
• 28:22
  Series. So like, and you took a team
• 28:24
  that was horrible, like they they were going nowhere, the
• 28:26
  Mets and then they had they had the Lenny Dykstra's and others,
• 28:30
  you know, that came on to the team.
• 28:31
  But you really led the way you pay.
• 28:33
  You were their ace on the on the on the staff.
• 28:35
  So you accomplished almost everything all at once, all at
• 28:37
  once right away the first three years.
• 28:39
  Like where does this guy go from here?
• 28:40
  What's next? That must have been a lot of
• 28:42
  pressure for you. You know, I'm trying to break
• 28:44
  down what happened, you know, first year you got drafted, but
• 28:47
  I'm not I'm already way, way further ahead.
• 28:49
  But it's fascinating to hear like how this all started and
• 28:52
  the beginning part of this, like what was going through your mind
• 28:56
  when you were actually on the mound the first time in 84?
• 29:00
  You're a rookie right now. And and like you made it big
• 29:03
  time. You made it to places that very
• 29:05
  few people in the world ever get to.
• 29:07
  People dream about it. You made it.
• 29:09
  So now you're finally there. What's happening?
• 29:11
  What's going through? What's your life like in 84?
• 29:13
  What is your life like on the field and off the field?
• 29:16
  So 84 I make the team in spring training.
• 29:19
  It was only because of Davy Johnson, my manager, he see me
• 29:21
  pitch. The prior year he was the AAA
• 29:24
  manager and he said wherever he managed to the following year,
• 29:26
  which was 84, I'm going to be on the team.
• 29:29
  So I said OK. And George Bamberger, who was
• 29:32
  the manager at the mess, he resigned after the 83 season.
• 29:35
  And I remember seeing David Johnson instructionally, I said,
• 29:37
  David, remember what you told me, don't worry about it.
• 29:39
  You're going to be on the team. And a lot of people don't know
• 29:41
  this and I didn't know the time. I just found out many years
• 29:44
  later the Mets left Tom Seaver unprotected, let me unprotected,
• 29:49
  left him off the roster intentionally.
• 29:51
  It was Davy. That was Davy's idea of knowing
• 29:53
  that someone's going to claim it was White Sauce, claimed Tom
• 29:56
  Seaver. That's how I got on the roster
• 29:58
  because I was a non roster player.
• 29:59
  You got to be in the in the organization for three years to
• 30:02
  be put on the roster. But I had only been in the
• 30:05
  Middle East for two years. So I got invited to camp and
• 30:08
  that opened the door by them leaving Seaver unprotected.
• 30:11
  White Sauce claimed them. They opened a spot for me, but I
• 30:14
  only made a team because of David Johnson.
• 30:16
  And I remember the last day of spring training in 84, he said,
• 30:19
  congratulations, you're making the team.
• 30:22
  And I was so excited but nervous at the same time.
• 30:24
  And I remember one of the greatest moments I had was to
• 30:28
  tell my dad in the parking lot that I made the team.
• 30:31
  As long as the second time I've ever seen my dad cry, I've seen
• 30:33
  him cry as mom's funeral. And I've seen him cry when I
• 30:36
  told him I made the team. Tears of joy.
• 30:38
  Yep. And now I make the team.
• 30:39
  And so you have you sort of thinking, am I ready?
• 30:42
  Am I not ready? And I win my first game in
• 30:45
  Houston. Astros don't really have no big
• 30:47
  name that time I I win the 1st. Game.
• 30:49
  Is that your first? First game you pitched?
• 30:50
  First start? Houston Astros.
• 30:52
  When Houston, I pitched in Houston, the Mets kind of fly my
• 30:54
  parents in. And I remember after that game
• 30:56
  my dad said, what do you think? I said I should win a lot of
• 30:58
  games. My second start was in Chicago.
• 31:01
  I get knocked out in the third in and then I'm telling my dad I
• 31:04
  don't know if I'm ready. So it took me probably about 7-8
• 31:07
  games before I knew I really belong.
• 31:10
  And to answer your question, what it was like on and off the
• 31:13
  field. On the field was a lot of fun,
• 31:15
  but I would say after the All Star break, I feel I've made the
• 31:18
  All Star team at 3 trails. That's when my name really took
• 31:21
  off. You made the All Star team in
• 31:23
  84? Yes, my first your rookie year.
• 31:25
  I made the All Star team that broke the record.
• 31:27
  I forgot the first three guys I faced in the All Star game.
• 31:29
  So you were. The young You're probably one of
• 31:30
  the youngest players ever to be. Still today youngest player ever
• 31:33
  to pitch in also. Do you still hold that record?
• 31:35
  I was 19, a year and a half out of high school and I was living
• 31:39
  in Port Washington, which is like, I don't know, maybe 30
• 31:41
  minutes from here, right? I've lived in a basement
• 31:43
  apartment and he used to be maybe a trucks parked outside
• 31:48
  the house. It was cars parked outside the
• 31:50
  house, kids hanging outside the house just want autographs,
• 31:53
  wanted pictures. So that part wasn't fun because
• 31:56
  I couldn't go to the mall like a regular 19 year old.
• 31:58
  I couldn't go to the movies when my girlfriend came with during
• 32:00
  the summer. I couldn't go around the corner
• 32:02
  and get pizza. So you didn't look forward to
• 32:04
  the road trips? But it was tough.
• 32:05
  I used to ride to the ballpark with Daryl Strawberry.
• 32:08
  He'll come pick me up and then I rush, you get in the car, we go.
• 32:10
  So that part was tough. And they just LED into the 1985.
• 32:15
  I'm moving too fast. It stopped me.
• 32:16
  So I'm moving to 85 and the expectations from 84.
• 32:20
  Going to 85 was like, I mean, crazy.
• 32:24
  The expectations that the media had for me, the team had for me,
• 32:27
  the expectation to have for myself.
• 32:29
  But we started my 85 would have been better than 84.
• 32:33
  You won 24 games in 84. You won 24 games and also I had
• 32:37
  16 complete games and also I had four games that year.
• 32:41
  Well, I pitched nine shot innings.
• 32:43
  I got no decisions. But that year I couldn't do
• 32:45
  anything. I mean, you couldn't go nowhere.
• 32:47
  So that part wasn't fun because now I'm 20, my parents come up,
• 32:52
  my sister comes up, my girlfriend come.
• 32:54
  You can't go nowhere. I mean I'm still not same are.
• 32:56
  They all moving to New York or living in New York at the time
• 32:59
  or they still live in back home in town.
• 33:00
  They're still living back in Tampa.
• 33:01
  OK. So you're not seeing them other
• 33:02
  than when you see them sometimes at games or you know.
• 33:05
  They'll come up whatever, but I couldn't go anywhere, just to
• 33:07
  the ballpark. So you're alone.
• 33:09
  Where? Where are you living?
• 33:10
  Put washing, I'm still in. Put Washington I'm.
• 33:11
  Still by yourself and living alone.
• 33:12
  I have a girlfriend that kind of stayed.
• 33:14
  There. So the two of you're living
• 33:15
  together, Yes, and like an apartment type of thing.
• 33:17
  Yeah, basement apartment, same apartment.
• 33:18
  Because back then the minimum was like 40,000 and then they
• 33:21
  show went from 40,000 to I think maybe 125,000.
• 33:25
  So it still wasn't making, you know, a lot.
• 33:27
  And then the rent I was paying was 2500 a month, non furniture,
• 33:32
  basement apartment. But you know, coming from Tampa,
• 33:35
  that was a big town for me and it was tough.
• 33:38
  You couldn't go, you couldn't go anywhere, couldn't go to the
• 33:39
  city, couldn't do nothing. So you look forward to going on
• 33:43
  the road. So that part was uncomfortable.
• 33:45
  And being from Tampa, you know, I was very shy kid, you know,
• 33:49
  quiet, laid back. I wasn't used to that.
• 33:51
  So that was tough. That was the toughest time to go
• 33:53
  through it. But at the ballpark, I found my
• 33:56
  peace on the mountain because that's where I wanted to be.
• 34:00
  Every game was sold out. That pitch was great.
• 34:02
  And like, like I was saying earlier, that's when Carter
• 34:04
  played a big part. He made me accept that challenge
• 34:07
  and I wanted to be on the mound. And it was like, no disrespect
• 34:10
  to the other team, but I felt like nobody was going to hit me.
• 34:13
  I had the home crowd behind me and that was my day.
• 34:16
  It was bigger than just a game. It was like a show, you know,
• 34:19
  just put on the show for the crowd.
• 34:21
  And I'm kind of like out of character talking about myself.
• 34:24
  And that's just the way it was. No, that's the reality.
• 34:26
  That's just the way it was. You're, you're actually
• 34:27
  underselling it a little bit. You know, you, you were, like
• 34:30
  you said, it was an event every time you pitch, like what is he
• 34:32
  going to do today? You know, and I just have to
• 34:35
  let's stop it for a second. Michael, I want you to
• 34:37
  appreciate what's what's happening here.
• 34:38
  When Steph and I, we go to our Little League, you know, game
• 34:41
  that we play in. And if I, if I'm in the on the
• 34:44
  mound and there's like, I don't know, 19 people watching me,
• 34:48
  like I have a little bit, if my wife's in the stand, forget
• 34:50
  about it. I'm like, uh oh, like I, I got
• 34:52
  to perform. I actually banned her from
• 34:54
  coming to my games. I told my wife she can't come
• 34:56
  anymore because just too much, too much pressure, right?
• 34:58
  Stay home, please. He's doing this in front of 3040
• 35:02
  thousand people in the stands, especially in the later years.
• 35:06
  He's doing this in front of millions of people that are
• 35:08
  watching this, especially the nationally televised games.
• 35:11
  I, I, I understand what that's like.
• 35:12
  Doc, you got to walk me through this Like what?
• 35:14
  How do you, you're not, how do you not wilt away and just melt
• 35:17
  into the ground? Like how did you keep your?
• 35:19
  Composure, yeah. How did you excel while doing
• 35:22
  this? I'm also curious if you had any
• 35:24
  superstitions, like did you ever not step on the foul line or any
• 35:27
  good luck charms take us through that process.
• 35:29
  So my superstition was I'm gonna go back to when I was an 8 ball,
• 35:32
  right? So when I was only three and
• 35:34
  what got me in first win was the day I had AZ 20 Camaro.
• 35:37
  I finally got my car to my rookie and I came home and.
• 35:41
  Was that the first car like you were the first flashing car?
• 35:43
  That was your first. That was my first purchase,
• 35:45
  yeah. Mom and dad are taken care of.
• 35:46
  Yeah, you could finally get your car.
• 35:48
  Yeah. Love it.
• 35:49
  Love the Camaro by the. Name I washed my car that day
• 35:52
  and I got my first win. So I'm like, wow, this is it.
• 35:54
  So all baseball players superstition pretty much.
• 35:57
  And I got like you said, I wouldn't step on the lines and
• 36:00
  then that stuff either. And I washed my car that day and
• 36:02
  I got my first win that year. And so every day that I would
• 36:05
  pitch, whether it's raining or not, I would wash my car.
• 36:07
  And then when I got to the major leagues the next year, that was
• 36:10
  my thing. Wash my car and Italian soap.
• 36:12
  There's my other thing. It was just like night games in
• 36:15
  my lunch while I get Italian soap.
• 36:17
  I just felt like that was the key.
• 36:18
  I had to stick with that. Even if I had a tough game, I
• 36:20
  would still stick with it. And I did it for like 3 or 4
• 36:23
  years and then I just, you know, figured I wouldn't work it
• 36:26
  anymore and gave it up. But that was my thing but.
• 36:29
  Were you like, zoned in when you were on the mound that you
• 36:31
  didn't even realize what was going on around you, or did you
• 36:34
  always subconsciously know people are watching me?
• 36:36
  Like, what were the nerves like? How did you manage?
• 36:38
  To your question, so my rookie year, every start I was nervous,
• 36:42
  nervous every start, but I always pitched my best when I
• 36:44
  was nervous because I focus more.
• 36:46
  I think the games that I wasn't nervous, I would get hit because
• 36:49
  I wasn't totally locked in. But when I'm nervous even like I
• 36:52
  do motivation speak speeches now to schools and colleges.
• 36:55
  And so when I first saw I'm a little nervous, that's why I can
• 36:58
  get my best because I always speak from the heart.
• 36:59
  I don't have men written down. There you go.
• 37:01
  But when I'm really likes I'm almost thrown off.
• 37:03
  Not scripted, it's really genuine.
• 37:05
  Like us here today like. Right now, yeah, it's.
• 37:07
  Genuine, yeah. We don't script anything.
• 37:08
  We just, we like to talk from the heart.
• 37:10
  Doc, I'm actually curious, did the fans play any factor in like
• 37:14
  you're the way you pitched that that start?
• 37:16
  Like do they like like if 5th inning, 2 hours, what's you know
• 37:19
  what everyone's standing is that the.
• 37:21
  Fans always like, even like now I think sometimes the fans think
• 37:24
  I'm just blowing smoke, but I always think the fans because
• 37:26
  they played a big part of my career.
• 37:28
  And to his point was like, I was like, you might remember like
• 37:31
  the fans when I got 2 strikes on the batter, everybody in the
• 37:34
  stage would be standing up. Clipping won the strike out.
• 37:37
  That worked to my advantage because if I threw the ball
• 37:40
  close, an umpire didn't call it a strike.
• 37:42
  The fans won't let him know. And the hitters, they don't want
• 37:44
  to go down looking, so anything close, they're going to swing.
• 37:47
  But from a picture standpoint, the adrenaline that it gave me
• 37:50
  and the rush that you got from that with everybody, I'm talking
• 37:52
  about everybody in the stadium and stand up clapping, it was no
• 37:55
  better feeling that. And that's where the breeding
• 37:57
  part come in as well. My dad told me just take a deep
• 37:59
  breath because as a young kid you don't want to get caught up
• 38:02
  in it. But I, I drived off of that.
• 38:05
  That was my thing, you know, I I wanted.
• 38:07
  That What about the opposite? What about someone there
• 38:09
  screaming at you or cursing you? Yeah, heckling you or?
• 38:12
  That was on the road. That OK, So they're like on the
• 38:16
  road. I didn't mind.
• 38:17
  I'm on the Mount. But there was a time when I was
• 38:19
  in Philadelphia, like at the old Veteran Stadium, the bullpen was
• 38:22
  like in left field behind the fence, and the stands was above
• 38:25
  you. And those fans should be
• 38:27
  throwing stuff at you, throw objects at you.
• 38:29
  And the security guard would turn his back.
• 38:32
  That was tough because normally it'd take me 15 to 20 minutes to
• 38:35
  get loose. But there I would do like maybe
• 38:37
  5 to 7 minutes until Mel, I'm good you.
• 38:39
  Don't want to get hit by a beer? Because you're turning back and
• 38:42
  you see a mustard on you catch up all your stuff for you.
• 38:44
  What was the rowdiest stadium that you would go to, you would
• 38:47
  hate going to on the road, on the?
• 38:48
  Road, I would say in Philadelphia, the old veteran
• 38:50
  state was tough because they were throwing objects.
• 38:52
  They were hostile. And the other one would be
• 38:53
  Chicago at regular field because you're literally the bullpen.
• 38:56
  You're right here in the fans are like right there and they do
• 39:00
  their homework. They know about you, they know
• 39:01
  about your mom, they know about your dad.
• 39:03
  And they're just hammering. You can't help you hear him.
• 39:06
  But the best thing was about that was when you beat them that
• 39:09
  next day you get to go out there and talk smite.
• 39:11
  The best revenge? Best after Beat them on the
• 39:13
  field. That'll set them.
• 39:14
  How were those days, the days after your starts?
• 39:16
  Like you're standing, sitting in the dugout watching the game.
• 39:19
  What, what's what's that experience like?
• 39:20
  You're not playing, but you're in the game.
• 39:22
  If you've won and pitched a great game, that's the best
• 39:24
  feeling to have. Just you come to the park early,
• 39:27
  you get your work in, meaning you're running, you're
• 39:29
  exercising on yourself. Then you get to just take a nice
• 39:31
  shower and see if I can enjoy the game.
• 39:33
  That's the best feeling. I imagine that's when you had a
• 39:35
  bad game and then you're ready antsy for the next opportunity
• 39:38
  to make up for. It.
• 39:39
  It's hard to wait. It's hard to sit there.
• 39:41
  You. Got to wait four days.
• 39:42
  You're very antsy about that. Oh.
• 39:43
  My God, that's the worst. You're trying to find stuff to
• 39:45
  do. It's in your head.
• 39:46
  You can't sleep because I would take my games home with me.
• 39:50
  It was self. I mean I felt bad for my my wife
• 39:53
  at the time and my kids was OK, but I was no fun to be around if
• 39:57
  I lost. Not that I'm a throw stuff or be
• 39:59
  yelling at them, but I was just I took baseball and we try not
• 40:04
  to. But to be honest with you, I put
• 40:06
  baseball before everything, of course.
• 40:08
  Everything consumes your life. Yeah, that was my life and I
• 40:10
  probably if I had to do it all over again, which I apologize
• 40:13
  and talk to my kids and my ex-wife and parents all herself.
• 40:17
  I apologize by my ways but I had to do it all over again.
• 40:19
  I would not have gotten married at that time.
• 40:24
  On the flip side, I'm very blessed to have the kids I have
• 40:26
  and the family have. They're still there.
• 40:28
  We have great relationships, but I had to do all over albums, not
• 40:30
  a party life, because baseball was like first and foremost
• 40:34
  everything. That was my life.
• 40:36
  Who was who was guiding you, who was mentoring you while you were
• 40:39
  going through this major hype very early on?
• 40:41
  19 year old, 20 year old. I mean, those are pivotal
• 40:44
  moments in your life, you know, and baseball is pretty much
• 40:48
  everything that you're focused on that you're doing, but
• 40:49
  there's off the field stuff as well.
• 40:51
  Like I just imagine myself if I'd be in your shoes, like I go
• 40:56
  off the rails. I mean, that kind of popularity
• 40:58
  with that kind of talent, like that's hard to to control,
• 41:02
  right? That's really, really difficult
• 41:03
  to do. So who's who's advising you?
• 41:05
  Who's like, What's that like? OK, it's it's three parts to
• 41:08
  that. The first part, like my first
• 41:11
  year, I got made it. We had a guy, Mike Torres,
• 41:13
  pitcher on the team. He was great.
• 41:15
  And I met him in spring training, and he told me he
• 41:17
  goes, if you make the team, you start pitching.
• 41:20
  Well, I'm probably gonna get released.
• 41:22
  What's the other guy? Oh, God, that's what.
• 41:27
  Blake, there's another guy pitch on the team.
• 41:30
  You've been amazing. What names till now, by the way,
• 41:32
  you've been? Dropping.
• 41:32
  Yeah, just like I. Keep wondering how do?
• 41:34
  You you got a pass you. Got a pass, Just the first one
• 41:36
  that's evading. Yeah, I think probably know.
• 41:39
  He probably got Mel, who's the pitcher, the top Mets pitcher in
• 41:42
  83 and 84 beside the Seaver right-handed pitcher.
• 41:44
  He got released in 84. Craig Swan, very good.
• 41:47
  Craig Swan, He said if you pitch good, myself and Craig Swan,
• 41:51
  Dick Sidro would probably all get released.
• 41:54
  If you see it, Ron Doll, you know, you got to start pitching.
• 41:56
  Well, Shanov make the team, Mike's on team and he said the
• 42:01
  days that you're not pitching and days I'm not pitching,
• 42:04
  you're going to sit next to me and I will have to sit next to
• 42:07
  him and he'll say, what would you throw here?
• 42:09
  Why'd you throw this pitch? So he was teaching me along the
• 42:11
  way on the road. I would have to go out to eat
• 42:12
  with him. So then after 84 didn't end up
• 42:16
  releasing him. Craig Swan dicted will release
• 42:19
  all these guys right then Mel Stoudemark kind of like became
• 42:23
  my mentor on the road where he'll come out of the room, make
• 42:25
  sure I'm not homesick following around, make sure I'm OK.
• 42:27
  And as you mentioned, within the, the, the, the, the pressure
• 42:32
  I had on myself, I put on myself, the fans put on me, the
• 42:35
  organization put on me, the media put on me. 84 Like you
• 42:39
  mentioned, you went work of the year 85 You went Saigon 86 I
• 42:43
  went to the World Series 87. Now I got the problems happened.
• 42:46
  So I had people there I could have went to.
• 42:49
  But a lot of times, and I'm not justifying anything, a lot of
• 42:53
  times because I was a breadwinner, I say, man, I'm
• 42:55
  having some problems. I need to talk about these
• 42:57
  problems. So you're fine because I come
• 42:59
  from a home where men don't talk about problems.
• 43:02
  Men don't hug men. Have a drink over it, Pull your
• 43:05
  boots up, tighten up, be a man about it.
• 43:07
  So a lot of stuff I kept in that I wouldn't talk about.
• 43:10
  When the alcohol started getting bad, the drug start coming in, I
• 43:14
  had people that could have talked to.
• 43:15
  I had people on the team I could have talked to, but my ego
• 43:18
  wouldn't allow me to do that because I'll, I'll put on this
• 43:20
  pedestal. So the problem started getting
• 43:23
  worse and worse. So 87 when my problem started, I
• 43:25
  went to rehab and that was part of the reason why I got married
• 43:28
  when I came out. It was a selfish thing, but it
• 43:31
  was a thing. I was trying to protect myself
• 43:33
  and but at that time, when you say who mentored him at that
• 43:35
  point, Mel Stardomer played a big part.
• 43:38
  I had a guy, Doctor Ellen Lance, who worked with the team was
• 43:41
  there as well. So I started getting guys that
• 43:43
  was there to help me. Our Keith and his was very
• 43:46
  influenced. And Gary Carter was my guy.
• 43:48
  Even Gary. Wow, I can't say it.
• 43:51
  So I get choked up. I think it was 2012 before Gary
• 43:57
  Pass. That's when he had his brain
• 44:00
  aneurysm. He had his problem, he said.
• 44:01
  Doc, look, I'm going to fight my problems to the end.
• 44:04
  I want you to fight your problems and help people with
• 44:07
  what you're going through. We're going to do this together.
• 44:10
  That was the last conversation I had with Gary.
• 44:12
  And so I had some downfalls since 2012.
• 44:15
  But since then that's been my thing to try to carry the
• 44:17
  message. Not for Gary, because you could
• 44:19
  do things for certain people, but until you do it for
• 44:21
  yourself, it doesn't work. So that's what I'm at today.
• 44:24
  Wow. Well, that really strikes me,
• 44:26
  you know, very courageous of you to, you know, to be open about
• 44:29
  it, to talk about it. But you said something like men
• 44:32
  don't talk about their problems today in our society.
• 44:36
  Michael, I mean, Michael is like the number one father I know.
• 44:39
  And yeah. And, and I think on our society,
• 44:43
  it's much more acceptable to talk.
• 44:45
  There's much more of an environment that it's, it's
• 44:48
  more, it's not taboo anymore. And like, it's not OK if you
• 44:50
  don't have to just man up. I, I feel like, I wish like, you
• 44:54
  know, 20-30 years ago, like when my parents were growing up, that
• 44:57
  they had more access to that kind of things we have access to
• 45:00
  today. Today we're much more of an
• 45:01
  understanding society that so much could have been avoided, so
• 45:05
  much things could have been different if we didn't have that
• 45:07
  mentality of being so closed minded and not being open minded
• 45:10
  and are sending these things exist.
• 45:12
  And this is real life problems and everybody is susceptible to
• 45:15
  it. Everybody can get sucked in very
• 45:16
  easily and let's deal with it instead of shoving it under the
• 45:20
  rugs. And how many people suffered and
• 45:22
  suffered and suffered because of it?
• 45:24
  1000% And The thing is, like my parents, I know for a fact my
• 45:28
  dad, like they love me, no doubt about it.
• 45:30
  My Mama said my dad never said it, but he grew up that in his
• 45:34
  household, he grew up in the sticks in Georgia.
• 45:36
  Like I say, that's the way he was brought up.
• 45:38
  Like men don't hug men don't tell another man you love him.
• 45:42
  So I had been on that. So I didn't do the same thing
• 45:43
  with my kid. I had to break that cycle.
• 45:45
  And I remember one time a therapist said, well, when you
• 45:48
  go in the house, you go up to your dad and you give him a hug.
• 45:51
  Now when I'm in the house, I'll go on to my to give hope.
• 45:53
  But he put his hand out. And so I put my hand out.
• 45:56
  And I'm not blaming my dad. I'm not.
• 45:58
  That's just the way it was. And up until I found it in 2019,
• 46:03
  I got 2 DU is in one week of living in New Jersey.
• 46:07
  And the the courts wanted to send me back to rehab, but I had
• 46:10
  already been to maybe 7 rehabs, right?
• 46:13
  So I had to put my ego aside, my pride aside and say, you know
• 46:16
  what, I need to go to a mental institution to get this right.
• 46:19
  Because I remember a time I used to be crying, literally crying,
• 46:22
  going to get drugs. So something there wasn't right,
• 46:25
  something that was mixed up. And I said, no, let me go there.
• 46:28
  I said, well, you're not crazy. The first thing I said, no,
• 46:29
  you're not crazy. They don't know what's going on
• 46:31
  inside. They don't know, like on the
• 46:33
  outside I can dress up nice, but on the inside I'm bleeding.
• 46:36
  I mean, bleeding bad, right? And I went to High Focus and
• 46:40
  Morristown in New Jersey for a year.
• 46:43
  That's when I found myself, to be honest with you, I mean,
• 46:46
  anything can happen tomorrow. You go outside that door.
• 46:48
  I get that. And just by going there and
• 46:51
  again, people like my kids, I told them, look, I'm going
• 46:53
  there. This is what I have to do for
• 46:54
  myself. I can't do it for you guys no
• 46:56
  more. I got to do it for myself
• 46:58
  because if I don't, I'm not going to be around much longer.
• 47:01
  Once I did that and put everything inside the fill in
• 47:04
  that you guys say that I gave you guys when I play on the
• 47:06
  field, that's the feeling I get now when I go speak at these
• 47:09
  schools or talking to a kid and just sharing my story with them.
• 47:14
  And that's how I was able to forgive myself what I did and
• 47:17
  the people that I heard and my kids I heard.
• 47:18
  Because like you said, everybody suffers from that disease.
• 47:22
  Well, it's a terrible disease. Everybody suffers.
• 47:24
  Everybody's got mental health to a certain extent.
• 47:26
  Everybody got it. Some have it worse than others.
• 47:27
  But the word mental health 25 years ago was like, what?
• 47:30
  What are you talking about? Right?
• 47:31
  What does that even mean that you're making it up Like it's
• 47:33
  stop it, get over it, grow up. That's right.
• 47:35
  Now it's a real thing. We understand that people have
• 47:38
  emotions and everybody deals with it differently.
• 47:40
  Yes, but where do you think, Doc this like really you were living
• 47:43
  your best life like you were you just are a World Series
• 47:46
  champion. I mean, you have your whole
• 47:49
  future is ahead of you and and everything right now, it's
• 47:51
  amazing. You know, like a lot of times
• 47:53
  people succumb to, you know, to different things that are
• 47:57
  they're being tested with when they reach their peak or where
• 47:59
  they're at their lowest. Like, what was it for you?
• 48:01
  Like at that moment, you're right now World Series champion
• 48:04
  and what were you missing? What do you feel like you
• 48:06
  weren't getting even though everybody from the outside
• 48:09
  probably thought docs got it all docs docs on his stock is on the
• 48:13
  rise. It's a great question.
• 48:15
  I had it. Everything was there.
• 48:17
  I just think like I knew how to make you happy, but I didn't
• 48:21
  know how to make myself happy. That was part I could make
• 48:23
  myself happy for a day or two on the mountain, but away from that
• 48:25
  field, what what, how can I make myself happy, you know, on a
• 48:30
  consistent basis? That's what was missing.
• 48:32
  And then I was one of the type that always trying to fit in.
• 48:34
  I wanted to be like, I want to, I want to fit in.
• 48:36
  If you're OK, I'll make myself OK.
• 48:38
  When I would go home, all my problems happened back in Tampa.
• 48:41
  Guys that I grew up with doing hanging on the street corner,
• 48:44
  hanging on the tree, still doing the same thing somewhere in my
• 48:47
  country. I want to go show these guys I'm
• 48:48
  the same guy, but I'm not the same guy.
• 48:50
  But I want to fit in. I want them to think I'm the
• 48:52
  same guy, but I'll put myself in danger so.
• 48:54
  You're like kind of living two different lives.
• 48:56
  You have your. Oh my God.
• 48:57
  You have your baseball doc good in life and then you have the
• 49:00
  Tampa Dwight good in, you know that your friends know and you
• 49:03
  want us to be a part of that. And you're kind of you're kind
• 49:06
  of, you know, dancing between the two.
• 49:08
  Yes, I mean, and that was messing with you.
• 49:10
  And literally, I mean, you got the nice cars.
• 49:12
  I'm just giving to you straight nice cars.
• 49:14
  I'm going back to the projects, hanging out in the projects, 634
• 49:17
  in the morning, just hang out, playing cards, all the stuff
• 49:19
  because that's why I grew up. But when you grew up that that
• 49:22
  don't mean that's who you are today.
• 49:24
  And just to separate the two. And again, I'm not justifying
• 49:26
  anything. I totally put myself in that
• 49:28
  situation and it took me to get beat down, beat down, beat down,
• 49:31
  beat down so many times by myself to finally get it and
• 49:35
  understand that. You, you mentioned it when you
• 49:37
  said you one of the last times you went to rehab is you said
• 49:39
  you did it for yourself as opposed to others.
• 49:43
  You talk about that for a minute, like what did that mean?
• 49:45
  Because you know, a lot of people that I know in life go
• 49:49
  through rehab and they come out of it and then they have to go
• 49:53
  back again. And it seems like you mentioned
• 49:55
  a pivotal moment. Yes, and that was me.
• 49:57
  What it was was 1987. I tested positive.
• 50:01
  I didn't have to take the test. I didn't know nothing about
• 50:03
  drugs. I just knew I liked it.
• 50:05
  The mess testament spring training test probably say
• 50:08
  either you go to rehab or we can suspend you.
• 50:10
  You go to rehab, we're going to pay you.
• 50:12
  So I say, OK, I'll go for 30 days because I want to get paid.
• 50:15
  So I went to the Med, sent me 1994.
• 50:19
  I tested positive again. This suspended me.
• 50:22
  Go to rehab, pay or not. So I was going for the money and
• 50:25
  then 94, then 95, I tested problems.
• 50:32
  I was suspended from baseball. I was a strike year 95, I tested
• 50:36
  positive again. I got to spend the whole entire
• 50:38
  year. I went back to rehab and they
• 50:40
  said either you're going to be out there so you're out pay, get
• 50:46
  back in baseball. So I was doing it for baseball
• 50:47
  purposes. I was doing it for my mom, I was
• 50:49
  doing it for my kids, but I never said I'm going to do it
• 50:52
  for myself. I would never accept it.
• 50:53
  In my mind, even though they rehab, they teach you the stuff,
• 50:56
  they teach you the 12 steps, they teach all this stuff.
• 50:58
  But in my mind, I always felt like I was different, like we
• 51:01
  talked about earlier, like my curveball wasn't working.
• 51:03
  I knew how to fix that myself because my Fast forward location
• 51:06
  was off. I knew what I had to do to fix
• 51:08
  that because my dad taught me. But with this disease, I didn't
• 51:12
  know how to fix that by myself. You can't, I can't do it by
• 51:14
  myself. I had to ask for help.
• 51:16
  So but I had this ego thing that saying you could do this.
• 51:19
  You know what to do. And then sometimes you start
• 51:21
  saying, oh, you can do, but it's not a disease.
• 51:23
  You just, you know, you saw you got to tighten up, you got to do
• 51:26
  some that it'll work for a little bit, but it wouldn't work
• 51:30
  the last time in 2019 when I went to court, they went to some
• 51:33
  rehab. I said, no, I need to go to get
• 51:35
  mental institution. I have to just put my ego on my
• 51:38
  private side and just to set what I was and do it for myself.
• 51:41
  And I told my kids I'm going in for myself, however long it
• 51:43
  take, I'm going to do it. And the first couple months it
• 51:46
  was tough. It was very tough because again,
• 51:49
  I'm probably getting in a way like, how can I be here after
• 51:52
  the baseball stuff, the wars and this and that.
• 51:54
  But you had to put the baseball stuff aside and say I'm dealing
• 51:57
  with my life now. My life is online.
• 51:59
  I've been to prison, I've been to jail, been in rehab, only
• 52:02
  place I haven't been with the cemetery.
• 52:04
  And if I don't get it right, that's next.
• 52:06
  And I have to accept that and understand that.
• 52:08
  And when I first got to. That's heavy.
• 52:11
  It's very heavy. It really is.
• 52:13
  When? I first got there, tell you how
• 52:15
  this disease works. When I first got there, I'm
• 52:17
  looking at these people and they're like, wow, I don't
• 52:18
  belong in here. And I said, wait a second.
• 52:20
  I look at my track work. I said I'm exactly where I
• 52:22
  belong. I had to accept that and as I
• 52:25
  was in there, I started feeling good about myself.
• 52:27
  It's time. Big time, but.
• 52:29
  But this time around, you did it because you wanted to.
• 52:31
  Because I wanted to. You, you were out of the denial
• 52:33
  stage and you recognize that, yes, I do need to be here.
• 52:36
  And that's the for the road to recovery starts with acceptance.
• 52:39
  That's the first thing. The best thing I could have done
• 52:41
  for myself, For myself, Wow, if I could have gave.
• 52:43
  Myself, Doctor, So, you know, you were a public figure.
• 52:46
  I mean, you had your poster hanging in Times Square for over
• 52:49
  a decade, I believe. Something like that.
• 52:51
  I mean, you couldn't go anywhere without seeing the face of not
• 52:55
  good and that kind of pressure, that kind of notoriety would get
• 52:59
  to anybody. You know, I I keep saying like
• 53:03
  if I was, I could only dream of, of having that kind of
• 53:08
  accomplishment to my to my belt. But I mean, you, you did it all.
• 53:11
  You you couldn't probably walk the corner without having hordes
• 53:14
  of people just chase you down. Like you were a celebrated
• 53:18
  person, especially in in New York, you I'm sure an entire
• 53:21
  Major League Baseball. But in New York, you were the IT
• 53:24
  thing. Yeah.
• 53:24
  I mean, this, this is bound to to, to get anybody.
• 53:27
  But let's, let's talk a little bit about the good times.
• 53:29
  Let's go back to that. So it's 90, it's 8687 something
• 53:33
  around there. And you sign now a three-year,
• 53:36
  $15 million agreement with the Mets.
• 53:39
  They extend you. I mean, this, this, this is a
• 53:42
  dream come true. This is the moment.
• 53:43
  This is, this is now big time. And like, you don't even know
• 53:47
  where to spend this kind of money at this point.
• 53:48
  You know, like it's, it's a, it's a substantial amount of
• 53:51
  money. So what happens when that
• 53:53
  contract comes in, you sign it and what what happens from
• 53:57
  there? So from there, initially I
• 53:59
  remembered go back to year before 87.
• 54:03
  I went to rehab, We took apart, I went to rehab, I was there for
• 54:05
  two months. I come out, I still won 15
• 54:07
  games. I won 15 and seven and the Mets
• 54:10
  came $100,000 pay cut. And that crushed me because I
• 54:14
  felt like I won 15 games. I missed two months, I won 15
• 54:18
  games. I still had the most wins on the
• 54:19
  staff. Everybody got raises, but I took
• 54:22
  the cut. So that's OK.
• 54:23
  No problem. And in my mind, I know the New
• 54:25
  Yorkers don't want to hit this, but it didn't happen.
• 54:27
  But my mind, I'm leaving. I said I'm out of here.
• 54:30
  I got one more year 88 I'm out of.
• 54:31
  Here, I'm a free agent. I'm a free agent.
• 54:33
  I'm gone, right? And so out there, the 88 season,
• 54:39
  that's when we lost to the Dodgers, unfortunately, and they
• 54:41
  gave me a three-year deal and they when they approached me,
• 54:44
  everything was forgotten. You know, the person feeling was
• 54:46
  gone. And by getting the 15,000,000, I
• 54:49
  remember going back thinking to myself, I remember sitting in
• 54:52
  front of the stove for heat with my parents.
• 54:55
  I remember sharing the same cult with my dad.
• 54:58
  Now here I am. I got $15 million coming to me.
• 55:02
  What can I do? And with myself, my dream was
• 55:05
  already set. I got to play Major League
• 55:06
  Baseball. That's all I wanted to do I'm
• 55:08
  good. I got my one son at a time,
• 55:10
  Dwight Junior. I'm married.
• 55:13
  So at this time, I moved a whole family to Saint Petersburg.
• 55:17
  And I buy this whole block, right?
• 55:19
  I got my sister house. What two sisters?
• 55:22
  Two sisters got a house. My brothers got a house, my
• 55:24
  niece we got a house, my nephew house, my parents get a house.
• 55:27
  And now I finally move out on my own because I had to live with
• 55:29
  my parents. My first three years in the
• 55:31
  major didn't get a house. So we got this whole block that
• 55:33
  we own. And you bought everybody a
• 55:35
  house? I bought everybody.
• 55:35
  Wow. Houses for everybody.
• 55:37
  Wow, houses for everybody. You're a lucky broker.
• 55:39
  Did your agent? Take care of everything for all
• 55:41
  this. Like, how did you go about, you
• 55:42
  know? Who was facilitating?
• 55:43
  All this so my agent, that's a whole another story.
• 55:45
  Oh my God. But he helped me facilitate all
• 55:48
  that. And my mom, my sister, my mom
• 55:50
  didn't want to do it. My mom's a hard worker.
• 55:52
  Like it took me to sign that contract before I got my mom to
• 55:55
  retire from her job. My mom worked at a nursing home
• 55:58
  and she was happy with that. She was.
• 56:01
  That's what I get from helping people, my mom.
• 56:03
  So you help everybody. She cooked for the whole
• 56:04
  neighborhood, all this stuff. I finally got retired, but my
• 56:07
  agent was against me doing that and my mom was against me doing
• 56:10
  that. But I said, mom, you know,
• 56:11
  because my sisters helped me when I was a kid.
• 56:13
  What whatever I needed, all these people helped me and I
• 56:16
  just wanted to get back. And I just and I was very close
• 56:19
  with my family and I wanted everybody to be on that, be
• 56:21
  together. One time I thought about just
• 56:24
  buying a big house and we all moved together and my mom said
• 56:26
  that's not happening. Wow, so everybody got separate
• 56:30
  houses, no mortgage. You pay everything out in cash,
• 56:31
  everything else, and you just buy everybody.
• 56:33
  Everybody. You built them brand new houses
• 56:36
  or you bought existing houses? Bought.
• 56:38
  Existing houses Bought. Existing houses.
• 56:39
  People out and that was one of the greatest things I did, you
• 56:43
  know, for my family. Do they still live?
• 56:45
  Anybody still live in any of those houses?
• 56:46
  Everybody's gone now. Everybody wants something back
• 56:48
  to Tampa. Unfortunately, my parents passed
• 56:50
  away and my brothers passed away.
• 56:52
  But at that time it was one of the greatest time we had like
• 56:55
  maybe five years. That was great because everybody
• 56:59
  always had a hot meal. We used to have cookouts in the
• 57:00
  middle of the neighborhood and. You were fun.
• 57:02
  Together. You were funding everything at
• 57:05
  the time. And the neighborhood.
• 57:06
  Everyone knew you in the neighborhood.
• 57:07
  It was the neighborhood. It was great, man.
• 57:09
  We had block parties like when in 97 when Sheffield, one of us
• 57:13
  here in the morning, we had a block party for him.
• 57:15
  I mean, it was just so much fun. The kids, you know, all in the
• 57:18
  street. It was just.
• 57:19
  Where's Gary through all this? He's also he also, he's also
• 57:21
  making money right now. He's.
• 57:23
  Living. He was living in one of my
• 57:24
  houses I had, so I had my house, another house, you know, next
• 57:27
  door. He was living in that house.
• 57:28
  And then he built in my house a couple doors.
• 57:30
  I mean, a couple blocks away. He got married.
• 57:32
  And he lived in that area as well.
• 57:33
  Yes, but he'll just like, I think those five years, one of
• 57:37
  the best five years of my life was with my family.
• 57:39
  So what, what, what else you do? Are you, are you doing anything
• 57:42
  else with the are you investing any of the money?
• 57:44
  So are you trying to be a little savvy about it?
• 57:46
  Or right now you're just spending and living the good
• 57:48
  life. Just spending living a good life
• 57:50
  with and putting some away. But then that's where the agent
• 57:53
  came in. We asked about the agent.
• 57:55
  So I had condos in townhouses in Tallahassee, FL that I didn't
• 57:59
  know nothing about that the agent had did.
• 58:01
  And so a lot of times I try to talk to athletes about ages and
• 58:05
  different things about but my dad used to always tell me son,
• 58:08
  even if you understand or not pay attention, read everything
• 58:13
  but I got comfortable with only got a credit card in my pocket.
• 58:16
  I'm good. I'll let my wife and I'll let
• 58:19
  the agent hand everything, but at the same time, the agent was
• 58:22
  investing on the stuff that I knew nothing about,
• 58:24
  unfortunately. And what year was it?
• 58:29
  90, say 9096 maybe. Now I bought the houses in 90.
• 58:36
  Wait, wait, no 87 going to. Yeah, yeah, You bought them in
• 58:39
  like. Bought the house in 87 yeah
• 58:40
  bought the house in 87 so it's what had to be 95.
• 58:48
  I finally got I don't know if you have no rating grown and
• 58:50
  just when I met this guy Benson can I worked on Wall Street very
• 58:54
  small and we start talking again.
• 58:56
  You need to check this check this stuff.
• 58:57
  Can I take a look at this and we've developed a relationship
• 59:00
  that we're going to a lot of a memes together.
• 59:02
  So yes, I let him. I forced my agent to show
• 59:04
  everything and that's how I found out this guy did all that
• 59:07
  to me. And this guy was like on the
• 59:10
  church every day. Clean cut guy we thought had
• 59:13
  been here since 85. And he was messing you over
• 59:16
  behind. The scenes.
• 59:18
  So he was making some moves, he was pocketing some of that money
• 59:21
  out of it. And so so he also basically
• 59:24
  bilked you out of some of that money.
• 59:26
  A. Lot of it, yes, a lot of it.
• 59:27
  I got somebody bike, but not quite as near as was.
• 59:30
  He an agent for any other players or he was just for you?
• 59:32
  Sheffield. Oh, so you and Sheffield.
• 59:34
  Yeah, he got Chef. Chef who got it, when that
• 59:37
  happened to me, Chef got, you know, got out of it and found
• 59:40
  out he was doing the same thing to him.
• 59:41
  But he took a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff from him that hurt
• 59:44
  me too. But a lot of it's my fault
• 59:45
  because my dad told me never hire.
• 59:48
  I have attorney that knows your agent that worked together.
• 59:51
  Look at everything and I wasn't doing it.
• 59:53
  I was just happy with what I had and knowing that I can go to the
• 59:55
  bank and tell my one I was young and not paying attention.
• 59:59
  But you didn't have a Jewish accountant though?
• 1:00:01
  No, that's the problem. I got one later.
• 1:00:03
  That's the problem. You didn't have somebody with
• 1:00:05
  the I got. Lee Rosen.
• 1:00:08
  Yeah, you need some kind of burg, Some kind of burg, a burg,
• 1:00:11
  a bloom. A bloom is good enough.
• 1:00:14
  Bloom works. Yeah, they'll help you out over
• 1:00:17
  there. Yeah, for sure.
• 1:00:18
  But that's crazy. So that was your biggest
• 1:00:21
  contract, that $15 million was your biggest, but throughout
• 1:00:23
  your career. And you know what kind of
• 1:00:26
  endorsements did you have? You had some big endorsements as
• 1:00:28
  well. Towards us, I had Nike, I had
• 1:00:31
  Pepsi. Gatorade.
• 1:00:32
  Nike. I had balloons, I had Mercedes.
• 1:00:37
  And who was negotiating all these, all these endorsement
• 1:00:39
  deals? You, agent.
• 1:00:40
  Yeah. Well, the agent did a little bit
• 1:00:41
  1st and then the guy Vincent Keen came in the second behind
• 1:00:44
  my agent and did all that. So I had a lot of a lot of fun
• 1:00:46
  with that. So you were.
• 1:00:47
  Making money on the side as well, outside of just baseball,
• 1:00:50
  yes, but just baseball alone, I mean, you made north of $30
• 1:00:52
  million, yes, throughout your career, yes.
• 1:00:55
  That's a substance. That's an astronomical amount of
• 1:00:57
  money, yes. That can, you know, set you up
• 1:00:59
  for generational wealth if, you know, if you do some, some
• 1:01:02
  things with the money, yes. Was there anything that you're
• 1:01:04
  proud of anything that you did with with some of the money be
• 1:01:07
  like anything at all like weird. What was what was the splashiest
• 1:01:10
  thing you did other than buying these houses?
• 1:01:12
  What was the splashiest thing you did The.
• 1:01:13
  Splashest thing I did, I think helping like homeless vets, I
• 1:01:17
  built them big house down in Tampa that that house like 20
• 1:01:23
  some homeless vets. I think that was my biggest
• 1:01:26
  accomplishment for me because my dad was a vet and and still
• 1:01:31
  today it assigns me because you look at La, all these homeless
• 1:01:34
  people, mostly homeless people, the ones that fought for our
• 1:01:36
  country, you got to go. So I built that in Tampa and I
• 1:01:40
  had it running and watching it while going during the offseason
• 1:01:43
  down there and spent time with these guys and seeing a smile on
• 1:01:45
  their face and they family come visit, some of them getting
• 1:01:47
  biked with their family and stuff.
• 1:01:49
  That was my biggest award to be honest with you, that that sits
• 1:01:52
  right there with the road series in the Sai Yon to be able to get
• 1:01:54
  bike like that. You know, they, they changed the
• 1:01:56
  landscape today a little bit today in the athletic world
• 1:01:59
  where any sport, whether it's basketball or football, any, any
• 1:02:02
  sport, they pay you big salaries.
• 1:02:03
  They don't, they don't give the money anymore to, to the players
• 1:02:07
  like all at once, like, like anybody gets caught up with
• 1:02:09
  that. You handed me $5,000,000.
• 1:02:11
  I'm going, you know, I'm buying a yacht, you know, and I'm going
• 1:02:13
  to go party a little bit, right? But like, look at Shoaib Otani,
• 1:02:17
  right? One of the biggest sports stars
• 1:02:18
  today in the world. He deferred most of his money
• 1:02:22
  for paying it out over the next 100 years.
• 1:02:24
  And and that's a really smart thing because quite frankly, you
• 1:02:27
  don't need that kind of money to really live, you know, and also
• 1:02:30
  you, you find out, people find out, you know, you sign to this
• 1:02:33
  public knowledge. Everybody knows you just made a
• 1:02:34
  lot of money. All of a sudden everybody comes
• 1:02:36
  out of the woodwork. All of a sudden your friends
• 1:02:37
  come out, all your extended family comes out.
• 1:02:39
  And how do you say no? How do you say no to everybody?
• 1:02:41
  This guy's been my childhood friend since I'm, you know, 10
• 1:02:43
  years old. This is my family member who
• 1:02:45
  knows my mother, who knows my grandmother.
• 1:02:47
  And you want and Doc, I can tell just by sitting a little bit
• 1:02:49
  with you, you're a generous person.
• 1:02:52
  Like you have a good heart. You're a nice guy.
• 1:02:55
  Like you're, you're you don't come across like this arrogant,
• 1:02:57
  you know, a sport. I've done this.
• 1:02:59
  Now who were, who were you to talk to me?
• 1:03:01
  You're the opposite of that. So like, you're probably very
• 1:03:04
  hard time saying no to people. I got burned plenty of times,
• 1:03:07
  even by family rooms. I got burned by the same thing
• 1:03:10
  they real quick my niece. So once people saw it, like in
• 1:03:14
  the neighborhood, I got all the houses.
• 1:03:16
  Then I had a house that Gary was standing there was my house, but
• 1:03:19
  then when he built his house, I had the house open.
• 1:03:21
  I was going to give it to my mom's church.
• 1:03:22
  And then some of my my sisters start moving out of the
• 1:03:26
  neighborhood. They getting married and moving
• 1:03:27
  out, right. So my niece, her boyfriend was
• 1:03:31
  locked up. And so my sister said, would you
• 1:03:33
  let Anita was her name? Would you let her stay there?
• 1:03:37
  I said, OK, I'll let her stay there for a couple months, so
• 1:03:39
  I'll let her stay there. And I said all you got to do is
• 1:03:41
  pay a utility bill. That's.
• 1:03:42
  It. That's it.
• 1:03:43
  And so I had to get an assigned paper on the on the for the
• 1:03:46
  house. I was going to pay utility bills
• 1:03:48
  and she had like 3 kids and I'm living next door.
• 1:03:51
  So they come eat the everything and then even utility bills most
• 1:03:54
  of the time I'm paying it for a boyfriend gets out, they move to
• 1:03:57
  Tampa. So now set a point by moving.
• 1:04:01
  I'm retired. I'm going to sell that, sell the
• 1:04:02
  house, but I need a signature back on there so I can sell it.
• 1:04:05
  She says. What do I get?
• 1:04:07
  What do you get? So to make a Long story short, I
• 1:04:10
  had to give her $10,000 so I can get her signature on the paper
• 1:04:13
  so I can sell the house when I let her live there for two years
• 1:04:16
  for free. That's my niece.
• 1:04:18
  That's my sister's donor. Wow.
• 1:04:22
  That makes me mad. That makes that's see, that's
• 1:04:24
  people. You give them a nickel and they
• 1:04:25
  take a dollar instead. Like you give them a finger.
• 1:04:27
  They want the whole hand. I just once her I had friends do
• 1:04:30
  all kind of crazy. So I helped get cars signed like
• 1:04:33
  cosign for a car. The car breakdown.
• 1:04:35
  They don't want to pay for it no more.
• 1:04:36
  So I had a car told and they get pissed because I had a toll.
• 1:04:39
  We're not speaking no more today.
• 1:04:40
  I mean just crazy. So because of my kindness, I let
• 1:04:44
  people take my kindness for weakness.
• 1:04:45
  And these are relationships that get affected forever.
• 1:04:48
  These guys I grew up with, like that guy who did that, my
• 1:04:51
  friend, we knew each other. We lived close, free from each
• 1:04:53
  other since we was three years old.
• 1:04:54
  And today we don't even speak because of what happened with
• 1:04:57
  the car. I mean, so did you really have
• 1:05:00
  my best interest or did you like me for what I had and what I
• 1:05:03
  could do for you? Well, I had to learn myself
• 1:05:05
  along the way, you know. Now all I can do is share my
• 1:05:09
  story with others so they'll make the same mistakes.
• 1:05:12
  For sure. So, I mean, you had a very
• 1:05:14
  colorful life. I mean, you had a you had
• 1:05:17
  experiences that some of us can only dream of.
• 1:05:20
  Yeah. You, you've seen it all.
• 1:05:21
  You've lived it all. You had your ups, you had your
• 1:05:23
  downs. Yeah.
• 1:05:24
  And a lot of in betweens. Yeah.
• 1:05:26
  You've you've you've been there, done that, you know, And there
• 1:05:29
  was a roller coaster ride and yeah, a lot of it on public
• 1:05:31
  display. A lot of it.
• 1:05:32
  A lot of people got to see it as well.
• 1:05:34
  Yeah, but that door is sort of shut.
• 1:05:37
  Like you're in a different part of your life right now.
• 1:05:39
  You're in a different phase in your life.
• 1:05:42
  What is it like today for that good?
• 1:05:44
  And like, what does your life look like outside of baseball,
• 1:05:46
  outside of the sports world, outside of that?
• 1:05:49
  Like what? Let us in a little bit until
• 1:05:50
  like, what is a normal day for you look like?
• 1:05:53
  Oh man, it's just fun every day. Just fun.
• 1:05:55
  Just laughter. I have 9 grandkids.
• 1:05:57
  I get to share face on my grandkids every day. 2023 I was
• 1:06:04
  inducted to the Negro League Museum Hall of Fame, Lash I got
• 1:06:08
  my number retired. Those awards you see on the
• 1:06:10
  table right there, all from like mental health and addiction,
• 1:06:13
  helping people, giving back on the stuff like that.
• 1:06:16
  And now I wake up, I have fun. I have a son that goes to
• 1:06:18
  University of Maryland that plays football, have a daughter
• 1:06:21
  that's first year in high school, she's going to play
• 1:06:23
  softball. So I'm either down in Maryland,
• 1:06:25
  I'm running to Tampa, see my grandkids, some of them playing
• 1:06:27
  sports. I'm at the Met games, Yankee
• 1:06:30
  games. I'm a met at heart.
• 1:06:31
  So last year, going to the games, a lot of fun and watching
• 1:06:35
  sports. I just enjoy my life.
• 1:06:36
  Looking back at, like you say, well was what I'm doing today.
• 1:06:39
  And I'm proud of my accomplishments, the themes in
• 1:06:42
  this room. I'm proud of proud of everything
• 1:06:44
  I accomplished. I'm proud of the relationships
• 1:06:46
  I've made throughout my career. But most important today, I, I'm
• 1:06:51
  proud of myself and I'm not trying to blow smoke because I
• 1:06:54
  know where I've been. I know where I come from.
• 1:06:56
  I know the things I accomplished.
• 1:06:57
  But see, I can look, I can say I'm proud of myself.
• 1:07:00
  I know how to make myself happy today.
• 1:07:02
  I know what I've been through. I'm glad that I went through the
• 1:07:04
  things I went through. I'm sorry that I hurt the people
• 1:07:06
  that I hurt. But I think if I hadn't went
• 1:07:08
  through certain things, I went and got to where I was today.
• 1:07:11
  And today I'm very happy what I'm doing.
• 1:07:13
  There's no pressure on me. I'm glad I can get in my car and
• 1:07:16
  drive, not worry about the red lights behind me, you know?
• 1:07:20
  You're a private citizen today. You're just living the everyday
• 1:07:22
  life, just enjoying your family. Yeah, like I go to the grocery
• 1:07:25
  store. I'm just saying hi to everybody.
• 1:07:26
  I try to. Do people still recognize you
• 1:07:27
  right now when you go outside, like when you go to the grocery?
• 1:07:29
  Does anybody recognize you right now?
• 1:07:30
  A lot. Of people always still sometimes
• 1:07:32
  what happens is one guy said, hey Doc Gooden, let me take a
• 1:07:34
  picture and then that draws attention but.
• 1:07:36
  No one got to comment. Who's that?
• 1:07:38
  Oh, Doc Gooden I've heard of. You how many times you said no,
• 1:07:40
  I'm not talking. Oh, you.
• 1:07:43
  Talking about. No, I don't mind.
• 1:07:44
  But like if I'm with my grandkids then it's I don't, I
• 1:07:47
  don't fool around, but it's fun. It's still fun.
• 1:07:49
  I go to the league games. I do stuff with the Pete
• 1:07:52
  Academy. He has the Academy right here.
• 1:07:53
  We do a lot of stuff training kids.
• 1:07:55
  I just try to be as normal. We're giving back right now.
• 1:07:57
  You really are. And that's that's amazing.
• 1:08:00
  By the way, we'd be remiss if we didn't talk about the fact that
• 1:08:03
  you have something you did in Major League Baseball that only
• 1:08:06
  approximately 300 other people ever did in Major League
• 1:08:10
  Baseball. And there have been thousands
• 1:08:12
  and thousands of people that have come across the game.
• 1:08:15
  But in 96, I mean, talking about a comeback, talking about, you
• 1:08:18
  know, changing your persona and learning from things and
• 1:08:21
  becoming better for it, They're not giving back.
• 1:08:24
  I mean, you had the epitome of that story story, which was you
• 1:08:27
  were struggling in the early 90s.
• 1:08:29
  You were coming in and out, you know, and by the way, you were
• 1:08:32
  still pitching pretty well throughout this ordeal.
• 1:08:34
  Like you were that good doc that you were able to have your, you
• 1:08:38
  know, your your habits, you know, off the field and still be
• 1:08:40
  able to do your job. And you still performed at a
• 1:08:42
  very high level. But then in 96, you came back
• 1:08:46
  you for the New York Yankees. And I'm a Yankee fan at heart,
• 1:08:49
  by the way, I apologize, but I'm a Yankee fan at heart.
• 1:08:52
  And that's an unforgettable moment.
• 1:08:55
  You come in there and you pitch a no hitter, Michael.
• 1:08:59
  I think if I have the number correctly, I think it's about
• 1:09:01
  323 people. I've done that in the history of
• 1:09:05
  the game. Baseball's around for over 100
• 1:09:06
  years, over 100 years. It's around 3:00.
• 1:09:09
  Well, I should say 300 since we started recording that stat.
• 1:09:12
  So it could be from the 1930s. But that's, that's you're,
• 1:09:15
  you're in such a small, little tiny class of people.
• 1:09:18
  And after all this, you come back and this is a, a life
• 1:09:21
  lesson, Michael, for people is that you can have any situation
• 1:09:24
  happen to you and still reach such great heights.
• 1:09:27
  What was that like? The no hitter.
• 1:09:29
  The no hitter Doc Many people dream of having even a shutout.
• 1:09:34
  A complete shutout game is a big accomplishment.
• 1:09:37
  A no hitter? How'd that happen?
• 1:09:39
  Wow. I mean, I'm not really shaking
• 1:09:41
  my head as you saying it because like I say, I don't like blowing
• 1:09:43
  smoke on my own horn. But that day as you, as you
• 1:09:48
  talking about it, I'm reliving it, right?
• 1:09:50
  And I don't get choked up a lot talking about this stuff.
• 1:09:53
  But that day, everything that happened with that, like you
• 1:09:56
  say, 94, I get suspended from baseball.
• 1:10:01
  I go to Betty Ford Institution in California, come back, the
• 1:10:05
  Mets want to cut ties and then you have the strike, right?
• 1:10:08
  So I'm sitting home, still struggling, test positive.
• 1:10:11
  Now I get suspended for the 95 season.
• 1:10:13
  Now I'm missing the whole season.
• 1:10:14
  So now I don't miss a year and a half thinking that it's over.
• 1:10:19
  I remember at times missing my kids birthday parties, missing
• 1:10:22
  all this stuff. Right now I start working out at
• 1:10:25
  a junior college trying to get back, trying to get back.
• 1:10:30
  Nobody wants me, George Steinbrenner.
• 1:10:33
  I'm at a meeting with George. Bless his soul.
• 1:10:36
  And all he talked about raining grown setup.
• 1:10:37
  We went, he said George told me. I met George and now my mind, I
• 1:10:40
  just want to play baseball. We talked about everything for
• 1:10:43
  two hours, didn't bring up baseball.
• 1:10:46
  So I left. That mean I'm like wow, you
• 1:10:47
  don't want me. The next day George called me.
• 1:10:50
  I met him in Temple. He called it himself.
• 1:10:52
  Yes, it was me, my dad, raining, grown late, Billy Connors and
• 1:10:57
  George. We go to Yankee Stadium, we
• 1:10:58
  talked. I'm the game for our these.
• 1:11:00
  I want to give you a contract. Wow.
• 1:11:03
  And the Beyoncé fishing, No offense, but I hated the
• 1:11:05
  Yankees. I hated the Yankees.
• 1:11:08
  If you're not a Yankee, everybody hits the Yankees.
• 1:11:10
  I hated the Yankees. I'm a Met.
• 1:11:11
  I hated the Yankees, right? And I'm like, but I miss New
• 1:11:14
  York. I missed the fans in New York.
• 1:11:15
  I want to make it right with the fans in New York.
• 1:11:17
  And I had an opportunity to go to Marlins.
• 1:11:19
  That's where Gary was playing the Marlins.
• 1:11:21
  I had an opportunity to go there, but I'm like, I got to go
• 1:11:24
  back to New York. I got to make it right with the
• 1:11:26
  fans sound. The Yankees say stay out of
• 1:11:29
  trouble, pitch away. You know, you can pitch.
• 1:11:30
  You'd be fine. Again, it's all about that.
• 1:11:33
  O and three. I start off O and three with the
• 1:11:35
  Yankees, said you're right. And I'm thinking myself, I
• 1:11:38
  haven't gave up on myself. I said no, I could pitch.
• 1:11:40
  I just, I'm just off. I was off.
• 1:11:42
  So they Take Me Out the rotation.
• 1:11:44
  They trying to decide whether to send me down to the minors or
• 1:11:46
  release me. And have you ever heard of a
• 1:11:49
  pitcher bench? I was bench.
• 1:11:51
  I mean, I'm not getting in the game if I'm up 10 or down 10.
• 1:11:54
  But Mel Stottedmeyer, that's why it means so much.
• 1:11:58
  He would bring me to the stadium every day early.
• 1:11:59
  And we kept working. We kept working, kept working.
• 1:12:01
  We were working. I'm working.
• 1:12:03
  And I'm like, man, I got to get this, I got to get this.
• 1:12:05
  And Mel said to me one day he goes, do you believe you still
• 1:12:08
  can pitch at this level? I said I do.
• 1:12:12
  I said I do believe it. I just got to.
• 1:12:13
  I just need time to get. So you don't have time, Doc, you
• 1:12:16
  got to figure it out. Unfortunately, David Cole got
• 1:12:19
  the aneurysm in his arm and George Steinbrenner was the only
• 1:12:23
  guy said put Doc back in the rotation.
• 1:12:25
  Nothing is Joe Torry. Joe Torry said Doc is done, I
• 1:12:28
  don't want to put him back in. Brian Cashman, Germany said no,
• 1:12:32
  I'm I'm not for this. George Stambridge, the own team
• 1:12:34
  said put Doc back in a rotation. My 4th start back in a rotation
• 1:12:39
  if my memory serves me correctly with a no hitter.
• 1:12:42
  But what made it so special? I felt like it was coming.
• 1:12:45
  But we play against Seattle. Seattle got Ken Griffey.
• 1:12:48
  I'm I'm blowing smoke now. We got Ken Griffey, Alex
• 1:12:51
  Rodriguez, Edgar Martinez, three guys that should be Hall of
• 1:12:54
  Famer Jay Bruno, Paul Sorrento, Russ Davis.
• 1:12:57
  I mean, yeah, all these guys, right?
• 1:13:00
  And that's murder rail right there.
• 1:13:01
  Murderous rail right there. And.
• 1:13:02
  What made it so special? My dad had been on Dallas's for
• 1:13:05
  15 years and he was going towards the end and the date of
• 1:13:10
  that pitch, the next day he was having open heart surgery.
• 1:13:13
  So I was supposed to fly home that day to build my dad because
• 1:13:16
  they say probably not going to make it because his health is
• 1:13:18
  deteriorating. But if you don't have the
• 1:13:20
  surgery, definitely not going to make it.
• 1:13:22
  That morning I woke up how all I could think about was the time I
• 1:13:25
  spent with my dad at Lily Pills, the time I spent at the little
• 1:13:29
  sitting on the red games, my dad all the time father and son
• 1:13:31
  spend together. I said, you know what, he would
• 1:13:34
  probably want me to pitch. So I called Joe Torre, who was
• 1:13:36
  the manager team. I said I'm going to pitch
• 1:13:38
  tonight. He said no, go home, build your
• 1:13:40
  family. When you're ready, you come
• 1:13:41
  back. I said no, I'll see you tonight,
• 1:13:42
  I'm going to pitch. Then I called my mom, said mom,
• 1:13:46
  I'm not coming home. She said, you have to come home.
• 1:13:48
  Your dad is expecting you, need your support.
• 1:13:50
  All the families gonna be here. Tell me what time your flight
• 1:13:53
  gets in. We're picking you up.
• 1:13:54
  And I hung up on my mom because she was making me feel guilty.
• 1:13:58
  Right? So I get to the park, talk to
• 1:14:01
  me. I'll start my life for a little
• 1:14:02
  bit. So I'm ready to pitch.
• 1:14:04
  And the first round of that game, Joe Girard is my catch.
• 1:14:06
  I'll just, whatever he put down, whatever sign, I'll just throw
• 1:14:09
  it. But I was standing in the
• 1:14:11
  walkway between the dugout and the clubhouse.
• 1:14:13
  You know, Tom, think about my dad.
• 1:14:14
  When is he going to make it through, right?
• 1:14:16
  Not until the 6th in. I realized that we got a no
• 1:14:19
  hitter going because I looked at the school board to see what
• 1:14:22
  hitters was coming up. You see no runs, no hits, no
• 1:14:24
  errors. Wow, 6IN I got a no hitter
• 1:14:27
  going. So I was able to put my dad's
• 1:14:29
  situation aside in a pitching no hitter against Seattle that day,
• 1:14:33
  right? And I remember when I got the
• 1:14:36
  last out and the team has carried me off the field.
• 1:14:39
  All I can think about is where was it prior year, getting
• 1:14:44
  together, rotation. I'm at Yankee Stadium doing
• 1:14:47
  this. Is my dad going to be OK?
• 1:14:50
  It's always going through my mind.
• 1:14:52
  And after the game, I took a ball from the game to fly home.
• 1:14:55
  Then they say I'm trying to go to sleep and when I got to the
• 1:14:59
  hospital, he's on life support. The doctor said he did get
• 1:15:01
  there. He did a game on radio.
• 1:15:03
  So he heard. He heard the game, yes.
• 1:15:05
  He ended up passing away and never made it out of the
• 1:15:07
  hospital. But the last gave me so many
• 1:15:08
  pitch was that no hitter? So that would always be special.
• 1:15:12
  Unbelievable. Unfreaking.
• 1:15:14
  Believable. I was, I remember I was at the
• 1:15:17
  bottom when he called rock bottom.
• 1:15:18
  I was at the bottom a year and a half out of baseball to come
• 1:15:21
  back the first year and do it. That's why you know, to live
• 1:15:26
  that, to live that that. And when I share my story, I try
• 1:15:29
  to tell kids that no matter what you go through, if you believe
• 1:15:33
  in yourself and put the work in, that you have to put in your
• 1:15:35
  true to your true feelings. You couldn't dig yourself out of
• 1:15:38
  it. You might not get bike to that
• 1:15:40
  top where you was, but you can get bike out.
• 1:15:42
  Absolutely. Life, that's what it's all
• 1:15:43
  about. Absolutely.
• 1:15:45
  And you gave your father his dying wish.
• 1:15:47
  At the end of the day, this is what he wanted for you.
• 1:15:49
  He wanted this for you from a very young age.
• 1:15:51
  And you gave it to him in the most Immaculate fashion, in the
• 1:15:55
  most Immaculate way. You gave it to him, which is
• 1:15:57
  which is really astounding. I mean, that was incredible,
• 1:16:00
  that whole experience and for the people that got to watch it
• 1:16:02
  live. I didn't see it live, but that
• 1:16:05
  was like one of your one of your highlight moments.
• 1:16:08
  We have some some questions that we want to throw at you, Doc.
• 1:16:11
  OK, just, you know, as we're wrapping up over here, just like
• 1:16:14
  let us in a little bit because you know, for us outsiders, we
• 1:16:17
  don't really know what goes on a baseball.
• 1:16:18
  We only see that 2 hour window that they show us on.
• 1:16:21
  You know, we don't see what happens in the clubhouse.
• 1:16:23
  We don't see what happens, you know, when you're going out
• 1:16:26
  with, you know, first of all, let me start with this question.
• 1:16:29
  Does everybody in baseball know each other?
• 1:16:32
  Like, like, do you have the right to contact somebody on the
• 1:16:35
  Pittsburgh Pirates, a guy that you know you're interested in
• 1:16:37
  just chatting with because you're part of the same
• 1:16:39
  community, you're part of the same league?
• 1:16:40
  Or is it like every man for himself?
• 1:16:42
  Like, why? Why are you talking to me?
• 1:16:43
  I don't know you. We both play baseball.
• 1:16:45
  Like, how did that? How did that work?
• 1:16:47
  So you mean like a guy from if I'm on the Mets and I call a guy
• 1:16:50
  from the Pirates? Yeah.
• 1:16:51
  Like can you get somebody's cell number just like that because
• 1:16:53
  you know? I mean, you could like there's
• 1:16:56
  two parts to that because it's a different area.
• 1:16:58
  Like during my time, I wouldn't even want to talk to nobody in
• 1:17:01
  Paris. Like I mean, so you.
• 1:17:03
  Didn't have friends around the league?
• 1:17:05
  No. You know friends at all.
• 1:17:06
  Like you knew who you knew. I'd take that bike because like,
• 1:17:09
  like, say, like Fred McGriff, Wade Box, Tino Martinez, Luis
• 1:17:14
  Gonzalez, trying to think Wills, Derek Bell, all us from Tampa,
• 1:17:20
  all us played against each other in high school or grew up
• 1:17:23
  together. Like Dairy Bell grew up.
• 1:17:24
  We share the same backyard guys like that.
• 1:17:26
  But I wouldn't call him. I'll talk to him.
• 1:17:28
  The offseason. I wouldn't do it.
• 1:17:30
  But today's I'm sure they do because a lot of them have the
• 1:17:32
  same age. A lot of them work out together.
• 1:17:34
  Yeah. And but you do have access to
• 1:17:36
  that if you want to do. It you do have access like right
• 1:17:38
  now, today, like if you made a phone call to Derek Jeter, he
• 1:17:42
  takes your call. Yes.
• 1:17:43
  So. Because you, you established
• 1:17:45
  some relationships, right when you played together.
• 1:17:47
  We played together. But on the second hand of that,
• 1:17:49
  there's certain guys you play with that you don't want to talk
• 1:17:51
  to. Ever.
• 1:17:53
  No, You know, some guys just don't hit it off like, say,
• 1:17:55
  like, I mean, whatever. I hate to throw names out there,
• 1:17:59
  but like, say, like Jeff Kent, right?
• 1:18:01
  He was the guy that we played together and with the Mets and
• 1:18:05
  he wouldn't hang out with us. And I remember, right.
• 1:18:07
  I asked him, why don't you go on the road with the guys, hang
• 1:18:09
  out, eat a steak or whatever? Yeah, he said.
• 1:18:11
  My real friends are bike home. See, that's not about it.
• 1:18:15
  Yeah, so they had to get rid of him.
• 1:18:16
  I. Mean even within your own team,
• 1:18:18
  you weren't friends with everybody.
• 1:18:19
  You, you know you picked and chose.
• 1:18:21
  You know who you were friends with.
• 1:18:22
  Yes. I mean, you try to get along
• 1:18:23
  with everybody. You respect everybody because we
• 1:18:24
  all got the same common goal and you're with your teammates when
• 1:18:27
  you're with your family and you're not going to get along
• 1:18:29
  with everybody, but you try to respect everybody.
• 1:18:31
  Like even our 86 team, it was cool.
• 1:18:33
  But at times, you know, you get into different guys at times,
• 1:18:36
  but you work it out. Who absolutely crushed you every
• 1:18:40
  time? Like who?
• 1:18:41
  Which hitter were you? Like damn, he's a coming up.
• 1:18:44
  I can't get him and he's got my number.
• 1:18:45
  I thought we was having fun. I'm sorry for bringing it up.
• 1:18:51
  I'll say probably Chilly Davis, really Chilly Davis wore me off.
• 1:18:55
  And he was a guy like I should throw, not to hurt him, but
• 1:18:57
  throw it high and tight, hit him in the egg, do different stuff
• 1:19:00
  to try to intimidate him, but it wouldn't work.
• 1:19:02
  You went away, wore me out. So it was such a different game
• 1:19:05
  wish. Yeah, you understand they don't
• 1:19:06
  throw high and tight anymore. No, they don't.
• 1:19:09
  Everybody so sensitive now. Everybody's so like, delicate.
• 1:19:11
  Tell them but like go tiny. I'm like, man, you guys, he got
• 1:19:14
  this big old elbow pad on. He's crawling the dish.
• 1:19:16
  He's comfortable. Knock him down.
• 1:19:18
  Dude, the guys, the guys got $50 million, more like $70 million
• 1:19:22
  on stake this year. Like if he gets injured, like
• 1:19:25
  he's a, he's an asset. He himself, like they got to
• 1:19:28
  protect that. That's a liability.
• 1:19:30
  Protect that. But if I'm a pitcher, I'm not.
• 1:19:33
  I'm not. I'm not saying hit him or hurt
• 1:19:34
  him, But you got to wait. What?
• 1:19:35
  Talk to move his feet? Yeah.
• 1:19:37
  You never want to hear. Make changes.
• 1:19:38
  Eye level. Yeah.
• 1:19:40
  Down the way up and in. Make him uncomfortable.
• 1:19:42
  Make him what? What rules today in the game is
• 1:19:46
  so much different than it was back then?
• 1:19:47
  And what's the most standout thing for you that's different
• 1:19:49
  in today's game, the way it's played versus when you played?
• 1:19:52
  I think the pitch count with the pitchers, you know, when I
• 1:19:56
  played, when I take the ball, my goal is to go nine years.
• 1:20:00
  I'm going out there trying to go night and it's not the pitches,
• 1:20:04
  it's more the system with analytics and all that.
• 1:20:07
  These guys get to 100 pitches, They're getting guided up.
• 1:20:10
  These guys face the line up the third time around.
• 1:20:12
  They don't want that they. Don't want that anymore.
• 1:20:13
  No, they look at that velocity, spin rate you take like a Greg
• 1:20:17
  Maddox or Tom Glavin. Today scouts wouldn't even look
• 1:20:21
  at them because they only threw maybe 8990.
• 1:20:24
  But I would take that guy that had movement, knows how to
• 1:20:26
  pitch, pitch deep in account. Then the guys just throwing 102
• 1:20:30
  that got snow control. So that bothers me the most with
• 1:20:33
  they taking these guys out, not letting them pitch deep in the
• 1:20:35
  games. Wow.
• 1:20:36
  How fast can you throw a pitcher right now?
• 1:20:38
  Right now, if we step outside and we ask you to throw a pitch
• 1:20:40
  as hard as you possibly can, what do you think?
• 1:20:42
  You clock A. 100 really, but but you'll take two pitches, so like
• 1:20:47
  50 miles an hour and 50 miles, you added.
• 1:20:53
  That's good. I see you I.
• 1:20:57
  See you. So like about 3 years ago I'm at
• 1:20:59
  the Mets fantasy camp. Like if you guys a little
• 1:21:01
  baseball look into going to Mets fantasy camp.
• 1:21:03
  I'm serious, lots of fun. You play, you got a week in the
• 1:21:07
  locker room, you got your uniforms on, you play two games
• 1:21:09
  a day and the last day the campus playing is the former
• 1:21:12
  players. It's a lot of fun.
• 1:21:14
  So about 3 years ago I'm at fantasy camp, right and I'm
• 1:21:16
  pitching I'm feeling pretty good about myself.
• 1:21:18
  So I tell her score keep. I say put the velocity on the
• 1:21:20
  scoreboard. We put up there 65.
• 1:21:23
  I'll say either turn it up or turn it off.
• 1:21:27
  But. It's embarrassing me.
• 1:21:28
  Yeah, it's embarrassing. I got a reputation in town over
• 1:21:30
  here. There's nothing there.
• 1:21:31
  Unfortunately, Doc, we got to come to a close.
• 1:21:33
  I feel like we can do this all day.
• 1:21:35
  We're we're having a great time. We'll do it again.
• 1:21:36
  We we should definitely go to a game together.
• 1:21:38
  That's what we do. That would be fun, yeah.
• 1:21:42
  What's that? What, Michael, before you wrap
• 1:21:43
  up, I know you're about to wrap up.
• 1:21:45
  What do you got to say about this Sodo situation?
• 1:21:47
  Is he going to, is this a good move for the Mets?
• 1:21:49
  I mean, obviously it's a good move, but is are they going to
• 1:21:51
  get what they think they're going to get out of this?
• 1:21:52
  Like, you know, the Mets don't have the greatest luck always.
• 1:21:54
  Sometimes they find a way to, you know, to mess things up.
• 1:21:58
  What do you have to say about the soda situation?
• 1:21:59
  I think my personal feeling like I'm a obviously, I like the New
• 1:22:03
  York teens. I'm a Mets fan.
• 1:22:05
  I was glad to see it happen. I mean, it's a lot of money,
• 1:22:07
  obviously, but when you get a guy like that, you got to build
• 1:22:11
  around that. You can't stop there and expect
• 1:22:14
  him to carry the team. Yeah, you got to continue.
• 1:22:17
  To you got the pieces around them.
• 1:22:18
  And I think they will. So I like it.
• 1:22:21
  You got an owner that you know, can do that.
• 1:22:25
  I think the Mets and Yankees made out good with that.
• 1:22:27
  I think by the Yankees not getting them, getting sort of
• 1:22:30
  able to. They still got that guy Judge
• 1:22:33
  over there, your favorite pitcher that you emulated during
• 1:22:38
  your time that played while you played, that you were like,
• 1:22:40
  damn, that guy. I want to be more like him.
• 1:22:42
  Nolan Ryan, really Nolan Ryan was my guy because Nolan Ryan
• 1:22:45
  had the highlight kick and my dad told me.
• 1:22:47
  And then one of the best, what's he called it, one of the best
• 1:22:51
  motivating talks I ever had was from Nolan Ryan in 84.
• 1:22:55
  I made the All Star team. I got talked to Nolan, and Nolan
• 1:22:57
  told me they look forward if he's not pitching and they're
• 1:23:00
  not playing and I'm pitching, they're watching me pitch and
• 1:23:03
  I'm like, wow, here's the guy I used to pretend to be in my
• 1:23:05
  backyard three years ago telling me that, yeah, that's all I need
• 1:23:09
  to hear. That's crazy.
• 1:23:09
  I took off from that. This was amazing.
• 1:23:12
  I mean, you know, usually I do all the talking, by the way.
• 1:23:17
  Sound mesmerized. Mesmerized.
• 1:23:18
  No, no, I love it. I love it.
• 1:23:19
  This was fun for me. This was the yeah.
• 1:23:21
  I have one doc, one one question.
• 1:23:23
  Yep. When you're when you were met
• 1:23:25
  early early 80s, Eighty 6, you're looking out in the crowd
• 1:23:29
  and you see a bunch of like Jewish kids, like when you're
• 1:23:31
  like, oh, man, that's cool. You know, Jewish guys come Chase
• 1:23:35
  Stadium. They're here having a good time.
• 1:23:36
  Yeah, like, did you like? Did you even notice or like did
• 1:23:39
  you notice? So you know what's funny, and I
• 1:23:42
  don't mean no disrespect anything, I didn't really know
• 1:23:45
  the difference between a Jew guy and white guy.
• 1:23:47
  I mean, we're all the same. All the same.
• 1:23:50
  Yeah. I'm just being honest.
• 1:23:51
  No, that's cool. I didn't know till later on.
• 1:23:53
  And I got kicked out of school because of you.
• 1:23:55
  Yeah. Yeah, we.
• 1:23:57
  Like Jewish community? Like, like you guys are strong.
• 1:24:00
  You're. Huge sports fans?
• 1:24:02
  Absolutely. Very big, Very big.
• 1:24:03
  Yeah. My brother's a huge Met fan.
• 1:24:05
  I happen to be a Yankee fan. But like, I grew up going to
• 1:24:08
  Shea Stadium. Like, you know, as a little kid,
• 1:24:10
  every time we had vacation or whatever, it is like we went to
• 1:24:13
  a Met game. You know, it was, it was a
• 1:24:14
  thing. Like, it was, it was, it was an
• 1:24:16
  experience. We like Passover.
• 1:24:18
  We game with our little bags of masa and and.
• 1:24:20
  We. Sat there, you know, in early
• 1:24:23
  spring and it was freezing, you know, with whatever food.
• 1:24:26
  We you would really screw us. Baseball really messed us over
• 1:24:29
  when they made those games. Saturdays.
• 1:24:31
  We can't watch the game on Saturday.
• 1:24:32
  We don't want to use electronics on Saturdays.
• 1:24:36
  Like Saturday morning synagogue and everyone's walking around
• 1:24:39
  going. Who won?
• 1:24:41
  What's going on? No, because we don't have CVS
• 1:24:44
  on, we don't have our cell phones open.
• 1:24:46
  So like, it's like. That's kids or adults.
• 1:24:48
  That's adults, everyone. That's our life.
• 1:24:50
  That's our life. Our phones all electronics from
• 1:24:53
  we never sundown till Saturday. We have a relationship with a
• 1:24:56
  local deli you know we're with. So, Harlan.
• 1:25:02
  He was bar. Mitzvah.
• 1:25:03
  I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.
• 1:25:05
  So before, before we wrap up again, I just want to mention
• 1:25:08
  thank you to prime source, of course, for sponsoring.
• 1:25:10
  Please don't forget to like and subscribe and get involved.
• 1:25:14
  Just want to ask you, we do this to all of our guests and I hate
• 1:25:16
  to put you on the spot, but here we go.
• 1:25:18
  You had a good time. I.
• 1:25:19
  Had a great time. I'm not just blowing smoke but
• 1:25:21
  this is great. Hopefully you guys have me on
• 1:25:23
  again. I appreciate it.
• 1:25:24
  Do you have any questions for us?
• 1:25:26
  No, this is great and I wish you guys all the.
• 1:25:27
  Best Well, we we do have a question for you.
• 1:25:29
  Our question for you is if you can recommend someone that you
• 1:25:32
  know that would be a good guest on our podcast, who would that
• 1:25:34
  be A. Guy would be a good guest.
• 1:25:37
  Me part. I was saying Darrell Strawberry.
• 1:25:40
  Darrell Strawberry? Yes.
• 1:25:41
  Can you call him and ask him for us?
• 1:25:42
  Yes, I will. Will you?
• 1:25:43
  Yes, I will. That'd be a good guy to have.
• 1:25:45
  All right. I appreciate that.
• 1:25:46
  Thank you very much. Yeah.
• 1:25:48
  And again, thank you very much, Doc.
• 1:25:49
  We appreciate. The time, doc, this was an
• 1:25:50
  honor. This really was.
• 1:25:52
  Thank you all mine. All right, it's a wrap, folks.
• 1:25:54
  That's a wrap. Thank you.
• 1:25:59
  You want to see autopsy?