Latest / Balance of Power / Zelenskyy Says Trump Is Pushing Ukraine, Not Putin, to Yield

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Zelenskyy Says Trump Is Pushing Ukraine, Not Putin, to Yield · Balance of Power

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  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios.
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  Speaker 2: Podcasts.
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  Speaker 3: Radio.
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  Speaker 4: News.
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  Speaker 5: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
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  Speaker 5: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts or watch
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  Speaker 5: us live on YouTube.
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  Speaker 6: On this Monday, October 19th. And that, of course, puts
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  Speaker 6: us 15 days out from the midterm elections. But it
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  Speaker 6: also puts us one day past what was supposed to
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  Speaker 6: be a critical deadline in the imposing of tougher financial
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  Speaker 6: punishment on Russia. The passage, of course, of the Lindsey
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  Speaker 6: Graham sanctions bill that got through both chambers of Congress
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  Speaker 6: earlier this fall and was signed into law by President
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  Speaker 6: Trump was supposed to have the first portion of it
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  Speaker 6: implemented yesterday, further sanctions against Russia. But of course, President
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  Speaker 6: Trump over the weekend signed an executive order waiving those sanctions,
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  Speaker 6: explaining himself in part on True Social as being, and
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  Speaker 6: I'm quoting him directly, a very simple decision. I am
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  Speaker 6: in the process of negotiating peace in the war between
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  Speaker 6: Russia and Ukraine and don't want to do anything that
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  Speaker 6: will drive foolishly Russia away from the bargaining table. Going
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  Speaker 6: on later in the post to criticize Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky,
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  Speaker 6: who he says doesn't care about higher diesel prices and
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  Speaker 6: doesn't want to end this war and probably never did. This,
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  Speaker 6: of course, follows last week escalation in tensions between President
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  Speaker 6: Trump and Vladimir Zelensky over issues like the diesel deal
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  Speaker 6: with Russia, but also the slowing of Starshield Internet service.
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  Speaker 6: And that Starshield story is one that the Secretary of State,
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  Speaker 6: Marco Rubio, addressed with the press earlier in travel to Uzbekistan.
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  Speaker 7: I don't know where he's getting these things from or
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  Speaker 7: why he's saying these things to the press. You should
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  Speaker 7: go back and ask him. There's been no pause. The
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  Speaker 7: United States, but again, what he should be focused on
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  Speaker 7: and what we want to be focused on is bringing
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  Speaker 7: an end to this war. That's what he should be
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  Speaker 7: focused on. That's what we want everybody to be focused on.
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  Speaker 7: That's what we want the Russians to be focused on.
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  Speaker 7: That's what we should be focused on. That's what the
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  Speaker 7: president has made a priority, is trying to bring a war,
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  Speaker 7: an end to this war.
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  Speaker 8: That is what the president said. I want this war over.
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  Speaker 9: To end in that Truth Social post that Kayleigh mentioned.
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  Speaker 9: He went on to write, Zelensky's country is in shambles.
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  Speaker 9: A large portion of his land is lost. His oceans
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  Speaker 9: and seas are gone, and his male population is low, wounded,
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  Speaker 9: and or dead. It's where we start with Courtney Subramanian,
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  Speaker 9: White House correspondent for Bloomberg. She's on the North Lawn
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  Speaker 9: right now. Courtney, it's great to see you. Thanks for
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  Speaker 9: coming back to see us on Balance of Power. Has
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  Speaker 9: Zelensky lost the United States?
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  Speaker 10: I wouldn't say that just yet, but I would say
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  Speaker 10: that his frustration has really spilled into public view here,
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  Speaker 10: culminating last night with his interview with Bloomberg, in which
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  Speaker 10: he seemed to suggest that the U.S. wanted Ukraine to
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  Speaker 10: capitulate in this war. He said he didn't want to
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  Speaker 10: believe that, but that's how it looks. We did hear
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  Speaker 10: from him again this morning saying that Kyiv did not
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  Speaker 10: hear from partners on the early warning intelligence support system
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  Speaker 10: ahead of a strike from Russia. I have asked the
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  Speaker 10: White House about this. White House officials here have been
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  Speaker 10: largely quiet on that front. But we will hear from
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  Speaker 10: the president this afternoon before he departs for Kansas. So,
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  Speaker 10: we will be putting that question to him as well.
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  Speaker 6: Well, yeah, Courtney, tell us more about the president's trip
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  Speaker 6: to Kansas, because, of course, this is just stop one
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  Speaker 6: on what is going to be a very busy week
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  Speaker 6: for him as he crisscrosses the country. What does it
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  Speaker 6: say that he even has to go to Kansas, which
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  Speaker 6: hasn't elected a Democratic senator in 1932 in the first place?
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  Speaker 10: Well, the White House says this is about generating enthusiasm,
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  Speaker 10: driving voter turnout. But I think this really signals just
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  Speaker 10: how much Republicans are playing defense this year in these
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  Speaker 10: midterm elections. As you mentioned, the president's going to Kansas.
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  Speaker 10: He'll be in North Carolina. He'll be in South Carolina.
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  Speaker 10: He'll be in Iowa, Florida, and later this weekend, Georgia
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  Speaker 10: and Michigan. So, the question is, can he be helpful here?
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  Speaker 10: Approval rating is sitting around 37 percent. There's large voter
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  Speaker 10: discontent around, as you know, the gas prices, cost of living.
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  Speaker 10: Can Trump be helpful in these situations? So the big
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  Speaker 10: question here is, who shows up to campaign with him
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  Speaker 10: this week in some of these tighter races in Iowa,
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  Speaker 10: in Michigan, where some of these candidates have largely distanced
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  Speaker 10: themselves from the president? So we'll be watching that.
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  Speaker 8: Courtney, it's not just the president. Of course, the vice
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  Speaker 8: president is also traveling.
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  Speaker 9: He's in North Carolina today, and a number of members
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  Speaker 9: of the cabinet will be fanning out over the next
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  Speaker 9: couple of days. What are you hearing internally? Has everyone
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  Speaker 9: who works for President Trump been told to.
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  Speaker 8: Pack a bag?
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  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely.
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  Speaker 10: This has actually been something that's been going on since
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  Speaker 10: the summer. There is a bit of a competition, you
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  Speaker 10: might say, going on among the Cabinet officials. A White
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  Speaker 10: House official told us a couple months ago, in fact,
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  Speaker 10: that this was something that the White House is keeping
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  Speaker 10: track of. They want their messengers out front. They want—
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  Speaker 10: these folks to speak on behalf of the president, to
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  Speaker 10: get their message out there. So I think you'll be
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  Speaker 10: seeing a lot of miles being clocked by a lot
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  Speaker 10: of his officials in the next couple weeks.
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  Speaker 3: Indeed. All right.
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  Speaker 6: Bloomberg's Courtney Subramanian live on the North Lawn of the
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  Speaker 6: White House. Courtney, thank you so much. And she was
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  Speaker 6: just detailing for us the president's schedule. It will include
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  Speaker 6: this coming weekend another trip to Georgia after the president
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  Speaker 6: was just there on Friday rallying on behalf of the
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  Speaker 6: Republican Senate candidate Mike Collins. But visiting the state of Georgia, which,
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  Speaker 6: of course, was at the center of his 2020 push
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  Speaker 6: to overturn the election campaign.
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  Speaker 3: Results.
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  Speaker 6: He went back to the same themes we've heard from
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  Speaker 6: him consistently when it comes to the 2020 election and
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  Speaker 6: the results that he does not believe was accurate.
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  Speaker 8: Listen, David won. And I also won the election in Georgia.
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  Speaker 8: We won it by a lot. If you remember, it
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  Speaker 8: was what.
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  Speaker 2: A mess that was.
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  Speaker 9: And you see what happened in Fulton County with the ballots?
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  Speaker 8: You've been watching that disaster. What a crooked deal that was.
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  Speaker 8: The whole thing was crooked.
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  Speaker 9: But Ossoff lost that election, but they gave it to
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  Speaker 9: him because it was a rigged election.
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  Speaker 8: That's the only reason he became a senator. He needed
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  Speaker 8: a rigged election.
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  Speaker 6: So for more on this, we turn to someone who
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  Speaker 6: is very familiar with this story and is still charged
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  Speaker 6: with administering elections across the state of Georgia. Brad Raffensperger,
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  Speaker 6: Georgia's Secretary of State, is with us now on Balance
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  Speaker 6: of Power. Bloomberg TV and radio. He's, of course, a
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  Speaker 6: Republican and a former Georgia state representative as well.
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  Speaker 1: Mr.
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  Speaker 6: Secretary of State, we appreciate you joining us. We are
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  Speaker 6: obviously upon the 2026 midterm cycle now. It's been six
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  Speaker 6: years since 2020, which the president still believes was rigged
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  Speaker 6: against him. If he is still saying that the 2020
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  Speaker 6: results were rigged, do you expect the same of this
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  Speaker 6: midterm cycle, whatever the outcome?
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  Speaker 1: And will there be any merit to that claim?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I'm not going to get into the Washington rhetoric,
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  Speaker 3: but what I'll tell you is that we're ready. We've
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  Speaker 3: had record turnout so far with early voting. The machines
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  Speaker 3: have been tested. They're recording accurately. We have photo ID
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  Speaker 3: for all forms of voting. We've done three citizenship verifications
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  Speaker 3: of our voter list going back to 2022, 2024, and
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  Speaker 3: then also 2026. We have a clean list, 99.9% accurate
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  Speaker 3: according to an independent audit. And then at the end
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  Speaker 3: of the day, We're going to be doing 20 risk-limiting
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  Speaker 3: audits of all 14 congressional races, six of the constitutional
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  Speaker 3: officer positions here in Georgia. And so we'll have quick results,
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  Speaker 3: short lines on election day, and people can trust the
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  Speaker 3: results here in Georgia. And that's our job. It's not
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  Speaker 3: to pick Republican winners or Democratic winners. It's to make
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  Speaker 3: sure that the winner wins. And in Georgia, they do.
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  Speaker 8: Secretary, it's good to see you back on Bloomberg.
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  Speaker 9: We appreciate The time here with two weeks out to
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  Speaker 9: the election, the president has frequently suggested that early voting
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  Speaker 9: is rife with fraud, as you know. And I'm just curious,
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  Speaker 9: because you started early voting last week. How is it
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  Speaker 9: going so far in Georgia?
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  Speaker 3: Well, at noontime, we're over 900,000 voters. We are about 11%
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  Speaker 3: ahead of where we were four years ago at the
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  Speaker 3: 2022 cycle for gubernatorial races.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
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  Speaker 3: And so we're just having really strong turnout. But at
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  Speaker 3: the end of the day, no matter how you vote
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  Speaker 3: in Georgia, absentee requires photo ID. In-person voting, photo ID.
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  Speaker 3: And then early voting, photo ID. No matter how you vote,
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  Speaker 3: we have photo ID, and it's real ID-based. So we
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  Speaker 3: know who our voters are. We have a clean list.
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  Speaker 3: And we make sure that only American citizens are voting
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  Speaker 3: in Georgia. Lawful, eligible Georgia residents.
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  Speaker 6: Sir, if this many people are voting early, could that
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  Speaker 6: translate into a quicker result on election night? When do
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  Speaker 6: you believe that we will know ultimately who won in Georgia?
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  Speaker 3: You don't know on election night before 12 midnight who
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  Speaker 3: won this race because all the early voting that we have,
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  Speaker 3: that has to get reported by 8 p.m. on election day.
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  Speaker 3: So by one hour after the polls close, All that
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  Speaker 3: early voting, which is over 50% of the votes, will
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  Speaker 3: be reported. Then the absentee voting, which is about 5%,
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  Speaker 3: that gets reported one hour after. That's by 8 p.m.
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  Speaker 3: So you'll have to have those results, and the rest
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  Speaker 3: will be what happens on Election Day. So we have
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  Speaker 3: what we like to say, and it's true, free, fair,
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  Speaker 3: and fast. And now we have blended accessibility with security.
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  Speaker 3: And I think we've hit the proper balance.
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  Speaker 8: Are you seeing more Democratic or Republican ballots?
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  Speaker 3: We don't get into that. We just look at who
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  Speaker 3: votes and we let the political campaigns decide, are there
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  Speaker 3: people coming out to vote? That's up to them. Our
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  Speaker 3: job is to make sure when you do show up,
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  Speaker 3: we're going to check you with photo ID. We're going
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  Speaker 3: to make sure it's fast. and we're gonna report the
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  Speaker 3: results quickly.
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  Speaker 6: Obviously, Georgia as a state, as with all states across
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  Speaker 6: the country, has the power to administer its own elections.
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  Speaker 6: But we've heard the president frequently talking about the or
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  Speaker 6: perhaps being a need to see more federal involvement. The
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  Speaker 6: DOJ has said it's planning on sending some thousand election
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  Speaker 6: monitors to polling places across the country. Has the administration
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  Speaker 6: reached out to you with anything that they are intending
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  Speaker 6: to do in Georgia, whether it is DOJ observers or
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  Speaker 6: if there could be deployments of other personnel? Have you
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  Speaker 6: had any of those conversations?
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  Speaker 3: We haven't had any conversations yet, but we do have
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  Speaker 3: a process for having independent observers. Obviously, our post-certified investigators
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  Speaker 3: will be out there watching the results as they come
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  Speaker 3: in there. The Democratic Party, Republican Party will have their
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  Speaker 3: independent observers there. There's a process for getting on that list,
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  Speaker 3: so you can go out there and watch that process.
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  Speaker 3: We have a transparent process because we're very confident that
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  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, you can trust our
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  Speaker 3: results and University of Georgia did a poll, and 98%
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  Speaker 3: of all Georgians trust the process we have in Georgia.
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  Speaker 3: That's the highest in the entire country.
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  Speaker 8: I'm sure you're relieved to see that number.
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  Speaker 9: Secretary, did anything ever come from the FBI raid on
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  Speaker 9: Fulton County Elections and Operations Hub back in January?
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  Speaker 8: And do you know why Tulsi Gabbard was there?
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  Speaker 3: We've not heard anything on that investigation. Neither have the
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  Speaker 3: Fulton County officials. And so at the end of the day,
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  Speaker 3: it's just wait and see what they find, if anything.
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  Speaker 3: We don't think they will because those ballots had already
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  Speaker 3: been counted three times, but they're doing their work. We'll see.
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  Speaker 2: Mr.
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  Speaker 6: Secretary, you spoke in some of your previous answers about
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  Speaker 6: voter verification and ID required for early voting mail-in ballots,
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  Speaker 6: things like that. We know that this administration has been
• 12:13
  Speaker 6: investigating cases of voter fraud with non-citizens who had either
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  Speaker 6: been inadvertently or purposely registered to vote and attempted to
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  Speaker 6: vote in American elections. How many cases of that in
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  Speaker 6: Georgia are you aware of?
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  Speaker 3: We actually found, when we did our audit, 200 folks.
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  Speaker 3: the non-citizens. And some of those go back 20, 30 years,
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  Speaker 3: well before we had real ID. So that's really a
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  Speaker 3: longstanding issue. And then the Department of Audits found 222.
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  Speaker 3: But we said, well, those 22 actually are now American citizens.
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  Speaker 3: So we think our number was right. But that's why
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  Speaker 3: we've done three audits. Each time we do that, we're
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: winnowing out, making sure we have a very clean list
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: so we can get back to people and let you
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  Speaker 3: know that non-citizens are not on the list. Non-citizens don't
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  Speaker 3: vote here in Georgia. And I wish that every state
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  Speaker 3: would have done three audits so far. Some haven't done
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  Speaker 3: a single one. And I don't think that's healthy. I
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  Speaker 3: think what we do when we do our audits, we're
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  Speaker 3: building trust with voters. They know that we've had a
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  Speaker 3: clean list, photo ID, quick results, short lines. It all
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  Speaker 3: works together. And that's why we have those high marks,
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  Speaker 3: not just from the University of Georgia, but Heritage Foundation,
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: which is hard right. ranked as top three in the
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  Speaker 3: country for election integrity. Nonpartisan Bipartisan Policy Center ranks as
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  Speaker 3: number one, tied with Colorado.
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  Speaker 9: Secretary Raffensperger, I want to ask you about the use
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  Speaker 9: of AI in this election. And I realize that that
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  Speaker 9: can take on a lot of different forms, in some cases,
• 13:44
  Speaker 9: helping campaigns operate more efficiently. But in the case of
• 13:48
  Speaker 9: making ads, deep fake ads using artificial.
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  Speaker 8: Intelligence, there are a number of them running online.
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  Speaker 9: In the Georgia Senate race, or at least around it,
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  Speaker 9: showing John Ossoff, for instance, getting beauty treatments. We've seen
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  Speaker 9: some of these take place in other races as well.
• 14:05
  Speaker 9: In Michigan, for instance, we realized that in the state
• 14:07
  Speaker 9: of Georgia, there is no law requiring campaigns or groups
• 14:13
  Speaker 9: to label these ads as being made with artificial intelligence.
• 14:18
  Speaker 8: Should that law exist? Do you worry about the impact
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  Speaker 8: these are having?
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  Speaker 3: Well, when they're so outlandish, I think they add a
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: little bit of humor to it. But I'm actually more
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: concerned about AI about election officials. And it's so subtle
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: that you don't actually believe it. And so we want
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: to make sure we have a very quick, robust response
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: if we see anything that is talking about election officials
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: saying something that they never said. And it's actually a
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  Speaker 3: deep fake. So that would be our biggest concern.
• 14:47
  Speaker 9: We saw numbers from the Wesleyan Media Project, $ 137 million
• 14:52
  Speaker 9: spent so far on 220 ads through the 11th of October,
• 14:57
  Speaker 9: most of them from Republicans nationwide.
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  Speaker 8: Is the genie already out of the bottle?
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  Speaker 3: Well, there's obviously a federal issue about what the regulation
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: should be, and we'll see what they do. If they
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: think that's an issue, they'll actually do something. The challenge
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: that you really have is.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: I'm really concerned, really, where the feds are. Why haven't
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: they updated NVRA? And they haven't done anything on that.
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: That's a very simple fix that they could do to
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: help us have even cleaner lists. So at the end
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: of the day, they have to figure out how they
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: get to that 50 plus 1 to pass bills. And
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: they seem to be having some trouble with that in
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: the last few years.
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  Speaker 2: Hmm.
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  Speaker 1: You mentioned, Mr.
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  Speaker 6: Secretary, a worry specifically about deep fakes of election officials
• 15:43
  Speaker 6: and potentially the spread of misinformation.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Is that what keeps you up at night?
• 15:48
  Speaker 6: Or is there something else you're worried most about this
• 15:50
  Speaker 6: close to Election Day?
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  Speaker 3: Well, there's a host of things. We probably have a
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: list that come up my whole forearm of everything. So
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: you never know which one it is, but we prepare
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: for everything. And then there's always those things that you
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: don't expect. But at the end of the day, we
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: just make sure that we're very resilient, adaptable, quick response,
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: and making sure it's transparent so that we can get
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: our responses out very quickly to let people know what
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: the situation is so we can respond appropriately.
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  Speaker 9: All right, Secretary, it's great to have you with us.
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  Speaker 9: Brad Raffensperger, Georgia's Secretary of State, with us live from
• 16:25
  Speaker 9: our Atlanta bureau. It's good to have you back on
• 16:27
  Speaker 9: Bloomberg TV and radio. Stay with us on Balance of Power.
• 16:30
  Speaker 9: We'll have much more coming up after this.
• 16:35
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• 16:55
  Speaker 9: As we play it to our panel, they've both been listening.
• 16:57
  Speaker 9: Bloomberg Politics contributor and Democratic analyst Jeanne Shanzano, Democracy Visiting
• 17:02
  Speaker 9: Fellow at Harvard Kennedy School's Ash Center, alongside Republican strategist
• 17:05
  Speaker 9: Sarah Chamberlain, President and CEO of the Republican Main Street Partnership.
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  Speaker 8: It's great to have both of you with us here.
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  Speaker 9: And Sarah, I'll start with you, having just heard from
• 17:14
  Speaker 9: the Republican Secretary of State in Georgia. He gave us
• 17:18
  Speaker 9: some remarkable numbers, just to go back to where we started,
• 17:21
  Speaker 9: on early voting, up 11%. from the last cycle. What
• 17:25
  Speaker 9: does that tell you about passion on one side or
• 17:27
  Speaker 9: the other?
• 17:28
  Speaker 11: People are excited to get out there and vote. And
• 17:30
  Speaker 11: we're seeing that in a lot of states, not just
• 17:32
  Speaker 11: in Georgia. Ohio is up 10%, so it's an interesting time.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: But it's great.
• 17:36
  Speaker 11: People, I mean, that's how democracy works. And that is
• 17:39
  Speaker 11: why President Trump is traveling around the country to try
• 17:42
  Speaker 11: to get his megabase to get out there and vote.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, indeed. We've seen a lot of that.
• 17:47
  Speaker 6: We'll see more of that this week, Jeannie, including another
• 17:49
  Speaker 6: trip to Georgia where we began the conversation with the
• 17:52
  Speaker 6: secretary of state was on the allegations that the president
• 17:55
  Speaker 6: continually makes about how the Georgia election was administered and
• 17:59
  Speaker 6: how the results were counted in 2020. If we see
• 18:03
  Speaker 6: more of the same of that in 2026, what would
• 18:06
  Speaker 6: you imagine will happen in the aftermath? Because the secretary
• 18:09
  Speaker 6: of state just told us we might know who won
• 18:11
  Speaker 6: Georgia by midnight on election night. Does that mean we
• 18:15
  Speaker 6: could see more lawsuits and the like at 1 a.m.
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: I think 1201 is my bet, Kayleigh.
• 18:23
  Speaker 12: First of all, it's incredible to hear from the Secretary
• 18:26
  Speaker 12: of State, and I'm so glad you and Joe were
• 18:28
  Speaker 12: talking to him, because these election administrators are the people
• 18:33
  Speaker 12: in our country who are on the first line of
• 18:35
  Speaker 12: protecting our democracy.
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: And that is much needed today.
• 18:39
  Speaker 12: And to hear him go through and list what his
• 18:42
  Speaker 12: state has done to protect the system and ensure that
• 18:45
  Speaker 12: it is only citizens of the state voting and that
• 18:48
  Speaker 12: the vote is fair and free, it is, you know,
• 18:51
  Speaker 12: quite it is quite heartening. You juxtapose that to what
• 18:54
  Speaker 12: the DOJ did on Friday when they sent out a
• 18:59
  Speaker 12: really extraordinary, threatening letter to Raffensperger's equivalent in California. saying
• 19:07
  Speaker 12: that if election officials in Los Angeles don't search for,
• 19:12
  Speaker 12: hunt for non-citizen voters in their lists, they could go
• 19:16
  Speaker 12: to jail. And then the president immediately took to Truth
• 19:19
  Speaker 12: Social and said, yeah, they're going to be aiding and
• 19:22
  Speaker 12: vetting in a federal crime. They could go to jail
• 19:24
  Speaker 12: for the rest of their lives or whatever he said.
• 19:27
  Speaker 12: This is where the administration is when it comes to
• 19:31
  Speaker 12: this issue of the sanctity.
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: Of our elections.
• 19:34
  Speaker 12: They have been threatening poll workers. They have been threatening
• 19:38
  Speaker 12: election workers. They've done it since 2020. And I suspect
• 19:42
  Speaker 12: they will continue right up through 2026 if the outcome
• 19:46
  Speaker 12: in any particular area isn't up to what Donald Trump would.
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: Like to see.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 19:52
  Speaker 9: Well, I'll tell you, being an election worker has become
• 19:56
  Speaker 9: a heroic achievement.
• 19:58
  Speaker 8: Endeavor at this point, Sarah.
• 20:00
  Speaker 9: But when you listen to Brad Raffensperger, he doesn't sound
• 20:02
  Speaker 9: like somebody who's having trouble sleeping, to refer to one
• 20:05
  Speaker 9: of Kaylee's questions. Despite everything he's been through, despite the
• 20:09
  Speaker 9: raid in Fulton County, do you wonder what that's leading to?
• 20:13
  Speaker 9: He doesn't seem to think anything. The one where Tulsi
• 20:16
  Speaker 9: Gabbard was was on premises at the president's request.
• 20:19
  Speaker 11: That was a long time ago. I don't think it's
• 20:21
  Speaker 11: leading to anything either. And I think he does sleep
• 20:23
  Speaker 11: well at night because he's done a good job getting
• 20:25
  Speaker 11: the elections fixed, making sure everything is fixed in Georgia,
• 20:29
  Speaker 11: everything will go smoothly. And you're right about the election workers.
• 20:32
  Speaker 11: I have a very dear friend who does it out
• 20:33
  Speaker 11: in Nevada.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: Oh, my.
• 20:35
  Speaker 11: He gets death threats. He's like, I think this is
• 20:37
  Speaker 11: the last cycle I'm going to do it. And he's
• 20:39
  Speaker 11: been doing it for about 40 years.
• 20:40
  Speaker 8: It's a profile in courage at this point.
• 20:42
  Speaker 9: It is.
• 20:42
  Speaker 11: At this point, it is, unfortunately.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Well, let's talk.
• 20:46
  Speaker 6: More about the actual election itself and what voters will
• 20:49
  Speaker 6: be voting for in Georgia, where President Trump, again, is
• 20:52
  Speaker 6: going to this week after being there just this past Friday.
• 20:55
  Speaker 6: Does Mike Collins have any chance of unseating John Ossoff?
• 20:58
  Speaker 6: Or is it all about the gubernatorial race?
• 21:00
  Speaker 11: It's about the gubernatorial, definitely. I don't see him. He's
• 21:03
  Speaker 11: pulled his money. The outside groups have pulled their money.
• 21:06
  Speaker 11: So I don't see Collins coming up. But the governor's
• 21:09
  Speaker 11: race is still absolutely in play. And that is why
• 21:11
  Speaker 11: President Trump is going there to make sure the mega
• 21:14
  Speaker 11: voters get out. And then, you know, you got some
• 21:15
  Speaker 11: state races, too.
• 21:17
  Speaker 9: So North Carolina on this list quite a bit. Jeannie,
• 21:22
  Speaker 9: the president's going to be there twice this week.
• 21:24
  Speaker 8: And J.D. Vance is there today. Is it a similar situation?
• 21:28
  Speaker 9: Are they trying to survive this Senate race or is
• 21:31
  Speaker 9: it about every everything else down ballot?
• 21:35
  Speaker 12: I think it is more about down ballot. They've already
• 21:38
  Speaker 12: pulled money. Hard to imagine that this goes any way
• 21:41
  Speaker 12: other than Roy Cooper. But of course, I did see
• 21:43
  Speaker 12: the president out over the weekend making the case against him.
• 21:48
  Speaker 12: So I'm sure he will keep that up when he's there.
• 21:51
  Speaker 12: But I think what is so interesting about is his
• 21:54
  Speaker 12: trip to some of these areas is this is coming
• 21:57
  Speaker 12: at the same time you see in the context of, say,
• 22:00
  Speaker 12: the Russia EO that he signed on Friday. He really
• 22:06
  Speaker 12: is in opposition now to his preferred candidate, Darlene Graham,
• 22:11
  Speaker 12: who came out and said, while she agrees with the
• 22:14
  Speaker 12: president on most things, taking the teeth out of this
• 22:17
  Speaker 12: bill named for her brother was not something she agreed on.
• 22:20
  Speaker 12: And so I think you have a lot of candidates
• 22:23
  Speaker 12: on the Republican side taking exception to the president on
• 22:27
  Speaker 12: a lot of issues, the most recent one being this
• 22:30
  Speaker 12: issue of his treatment of Vladimir Putin, which seems to
• 22:33
  Speaker 12: be favored over Vladimir Zelensky. And, of course, I think
• 22:37
  Speaker 12: we're going to see more of the same on the
• 22:39
  Speaker 12: stump as he keeps calling this the golden age, while
• 22:43
  Speaker 12: you have Republicans out there with constituents who don't feel
• 22:46
  Speaker 12: like we're living in a golden age when they go
• 22:48
  Speaker 12: to get groceries or fill up their car with gas.
• 22:52
  Speaker 6: Well, I'm glad you raised this Russia executive order that
• 22:55
  Speaker 6: the president signed, because I would imagine, Sarah, that all,
• 22:59
  Speaker 6: if not most of the members of the Main Street
• 23:01
  Speaker 6: caucus voted for that sanctions package, wanted it to become
• 23:05
  Speaker 6: law and see it in effect. What are you hearing
• 23:08
  Speaker 6: about the president's decision?
• 23:10
  Speaker 11: So every member of Main Street, both the House and Senate,
• 23:13
  Speaker 11: did vote for the Lindsey, in honor of Lindsey Graham,
• 23:16
  Speaker 11: late Lindsey Graham. They're disappointed. They've talked to the president.
• 23:20
  Speaker 11: The president has tried to explain his position. Right now,
• 23:25
  Speaker 11: that's something I think they're going to deal with when
• 23:26
  Speaker 11: they get back in lame duck. Right now, they're just
• 23:28
  Speaker 11: trying to win these last 15 days. But they have
• 23:31
  Speaker 11: let the White House know that they're not thrilled. with
• 23:34
  Speaker 11: what the president's done. And the president's like, well, we're
• 23:36
  Speaker 11: lowering the diesel price and all of that. So the
• 23:39
  Speaker 11: president has his reasonings.
• 23:41
  Speaker 9: You know what the conventional wisdom is? People don't vote
• 23:44
  Speaker 9: on geopolitics. They vote on domestic issues. They vote pocketbook.
• 23:47
  Speaker 9: And of course, these are connected now. But when you
• 23:50
  Speaker 9: see the front of the Atlantic, Russia is now a
• 23:54
  Speaker 9: US ally. You hear about the president warming up to
• 23:58
  Speaker 9: Vladimir Putin. Does this start to show up in polls,
• 24:01
  Speaker 9: in voting decisions in November?
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: To be honest, you would think it would.
• 24:06
  Speaker 11: Nobody is surprised that the president is close to Putin,
• 24:09
  Speaker 11: and it's not pulling at all. It's like down at
• 24:12
  Speaker 11: number five or six. Corruption is, though, and cost of living.
• 24:16
  Speaker 11: Those are the two biggest ones people are voting on.
• 24:19
  Speaker 6: Well, so on the cost of living, it raises the question, Jeannie,
• 24:21
  Speaker 6: as to whether... Americans might see what the president is
• 24:25
  Speaker 6: doing as at least being caught in the act of
• 24:27
  Speaker 6: trying to bring prices lower. Could it have that effect,
• 24:31
  Speaker 6: even if it potentially has a detrimental effect geopolitically?
• 24:36
  Speaker 12: It could, but we're now, you know, just a couple
• 24:38
  Speaker 12: weeks out. There is very few experts. There are very
• 24:42
  Speaker 12: few experts who believe that this will do anything to
• 24:45
  Speaker 12: diminish the price of diesel. So if the president really
• 24:49
  Speaker 12: wanted to get out there and have a concerted argument
• 24:52
  Speaker 12: about tackling inflation and prices.
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: Giving this gift to Vladimir Putin.
• 24:58
  Speaker 12: So he could pummel Ukraine is a tone deaf, is
• 25:02
  Speaker 12: probably the best way I could say it, way to
• 25:04
  Speaker 12: approach that. So I don't see this as having any
• 25:07
  Speaker 12: positive impact whatsoever. There was, you know, a headline in
• 25:11
  Speaker 12: one of the papers today from Russia with love Donald Trump.
• 25:15
  Speaker 12: I mean, that is what most people looking at this think.
• 25:19
  Speaker 12: which makes Nancy Pelosi seem pretty prescient when several years
• 25:22
  Speaker 12: ago she said all roads lead from.
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump to Vladimir Putin.
• 25:26
  Speaker 12: And that seems to be what we are getting here
• 25:28
  Speaker 12: because it's not going to help the American public.
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: And few people expect it will.
• 25:33
  Speaker 8: This Russia thing just never seems to go away. The
• 25:37
  Speaker 8: polls that we saw over the weekend.
• 25:39
  Speaker 9: Are troubling for the president when you see approval ratings
• 25:42
  Speaker 9: in the low 30s. That was the case for Washington Post, ABC, Ipsos, NBC.
• 25:47
  Speaker 9: SurveyMonkey had them at 34 percent. The real clear polling
• 25:52
  Speaker 9: average is under 39. Do you draw direct correlations with
• 25:56
  Speaker 9: numbers like that, or does it go back to another
• 26:00
  Speaker 9: narrative we hear about? I hate Congress, but I love
• 26:02
  Speaker 9: my congressman.
• 26:04
  Speaker 11: So it depends on your member of Congress. We're getting
• 26:07
  Speaker 11: that a lot, that like, well, we don't like that.
• 26:09
  Speaker 11: We're not happy with President Trump, but we love so-and-so.
• 26:14
  Speaker 8: We're going to re-elect our member.
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: We are.
• 26:16
  Speaker 11: And I think the Democrats are talking about the blue
• 26:18
  Speaker 11: wave coming. I really don't think that's coming. A lot
• 26:21
  Speaker 11: of the members have made this very personal, very specific
• 26:25
  Speaker 11: to their districts. And I see, I think, many folks.
• 26:28
  Speaker 11: Fewer of them are going to lose than what the Democrats.
• 26:30
  Speaker 7: Are talking about.
• 26:31
  Speaker 8: Does that lead to ticket splitting? It does. Do they
• 26:32
  Speaker 8: leave the president blank?
• 26:34
  Speaker 5: It does.
• 26:34
  Speaker 11: There's a lot of ticket splitting that's going to go on,
• 26:37
  Speaker 11: especially in North Carolina and Georgia, where pretty much the
• 26:41
  Speaker 11: Senate seats are going to be Democratic. But the House
• 26:44
  Speaker 11: seats are still, there's a couple in play, and they're
• 26:47
  Speaker 11: going to be voting for their House member. So ticket
• 26:49
  Speaker 11: splitting is a big thing. People write that off, but
• 26:52
  Speaker 11: it's written off too early because people understand the system.
• 26:57
  Speaker 6: Well, just quickly, Jeannie, it does seem that the president
• 26:59
  Speaker 6: is thinking more about the House map when he's traveling
• 27:02
  Speaker 6: to all these places, which, yes, are hosting competitive Senate contests.
• 27:05
  Speaker 6: But he's going to areas for these rallies that safely
• 27:08
  Speaker 6: went for him in 2024. So I wonder how you
• 27:12
  Speaker 6: read that as having influence on the races in the House,
• 27:16
  Speaker 6: if he's going to the areas with members who might
• 27:18
  Speaker 6: not actually need his help as much as some members
• 27:22
  Speaker 6: who might find themselves in more vulnerable, tighter margin races.
• 27:27
  Speaker 12: I think it's a smart move on their part. They're
• 27:29
  Speaker 12: in a precarious position, but he is an expert at
• 27:32
  Speaker 12: getting out the vote. So he goes, he gets a
• 27:34
  Speaker 12: good audience in areas where people really like him. He
• 27:37
  Speaker 12: gets the news coverage at the local state, may even
• 27:40
  Speaker 12: bleed into the next state.
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: You can put it online.
• 27:43
  Speaker 12: I think that's a safe way for them to do that.
• 27:45
  Speaker 12: So I do think it's a smart strategy. I'm just
• 27:48
  Speaker 12: not sure it's going to do anything to save the
• 27:50
  Speaker 12: to save the House for them. It might just stop
• 27:53
  Speaker 12: the bleeding, as Sarah was talking about. The bleeding that
• 27:57
  Speaker 12: might go on, I think, is going to be averted
• 27:59
  Speaker 12: because let's face it, Democrats aren't particularly popular either. It's
• 28:02
  Speaker 12: more of a referendum on the Republicans in charge.
• 28:06
  Speaker 6: All right, Jeanne Shanzano and Sarah Chamberlain, our political panel today,
• 28:10
  Speaker 6: thank you both so much for joining us. As I
• 28:12
  Speaker 6: cast my eyes down at the Bloomberg terminal right now,
• 28:14
  Speaker 6: a red headline just crossing from the German Chancellor Friedrich Merz,
• 28:17
  Speaker 6: who has told Bloomberg that Russia's push to destabilize Europe
• 28:21
  Speaker 6: is underestimated. You'll hear that conversation between Merz and Bloomberg's
• 28:24
  Speaker 6: Francine Lacroix in just a moment.
• 28:26
  Speaker 8: Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much
• 28:28
  Speaker 8: more coming up after this.
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: us live weekdays at noon and 5 p.m. Eastern on
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.
• 28:43
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• 28:46
  Speaker 5: flagship New York station.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Just say, Alexa, play Bloomberg 1130.
• 28:50
  Speaker 9: We want to get right to an important conversation with
• 28:54
  Speaker 9: the Chancellor of Germany, Bloomberg's Francine Lacqua, with Frederik Meyers.
• 29:00
  Speaker 9: Right now at the Germany Investment Summit... Starting with the question,
• 29:04
  Speaker 9: why Germany?
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: This is true.
• 29:07
  Speaker 13: We are seeing the first investment summit of this sort
• 29:11
  Speaker 13: in Germany today and tomorrow. And more than 200 investors
• 29:16
  Speaker 13: from the world have agreed to come to Germany. And
• 29:19
  Speaker 13: this is a clear signal that they don't overestimate what
• 29:23
  Speaker 13: is happening politically here in Germany.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: But they're worried about extremes. So what do you tell
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: them to reassure?
• 29:29
  Speaker 13: Yeah, we are all worried about what is happening in
• 29:31
  Speaker 13: the world, which is not just Germany. We are seeing
• 29:34
  Speaker 13: extremists in many parts of the world. Most democracies are
• 29:37
  Speaker 13: affected by that. So we are trying to... to convince
• 29:40
  Speaker 13: our people that the political center is still able to
• 29:44
  Speaker 13: resolve the problems of our country.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: And that's what the government is doing.
• 29:48
  Speaker 14: But, Chancellor, you yourself are in a pretty fragile coalition. So, again,
• 29:51
  Speaker 14: what is the main message to investors? that think about
• 29:54
  Speaker 14: putting millions, if not billions, in Germany.
• 29:56
  Speaker 13: What brings you to your estimate that this coalition is fragile?
• 30:01
  Speaker 13: We are having a very stable majority in Parliament. This is,
• 30:04
  Speaker 13: by the way, not the case in many European countries.
• 30:09
  Speaker 13: We are seeing minority governments in several member states of
• 30:14
  Speaker 13: the European Union and beyond. So we are having a
• 30:17
  Speaker 13: stable government and we are doing our work. And we
• 30:20
  Speaker 13: are now in office for 17 months plus, some days.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: And within this period of time, we have.
• 30:29
  Speaker 13: Brought several legislation through our parliament. So, this is going
• 30:34
  Speaker 13: into the right direction.
• 30:35
  Speaker 14: Chancellor, what are your three top priorities from now in
• 30:38
  Speaker 14: the next six months to make Germany attractive?
• 30:42
  Speaker 13: First of all, this summit is important to give this
• 30:46
  Speaker 13: clear signal that Germany is ready for AI.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: For industrial AI, which is.
• 30:53
  Speaker 13: Extremely important for us as a country with manufacturing and
• 31:00
  Speaker 13: with many companies who are relying on new technologies. Second
• 31:03
  Speaker 13: point is we have to reform our social security systems.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: We are on the way to do that.
• 31:09
  Speaker 13: And third point is keep the European Union on track
• 31:12
  Speaker 13: and stable. And that's the reason why I'm so committed
• 31:15
  Speaker 13: to European policy.
• 31:17
  Speaker 14: Chancellor, we heard from the NVIDIA CEO just last week,
• 31:20
  Speaker 14: who is in London, saying that actually nothing hurts him
• 31:22
  Speaker 14: more than seeing Germany, that was one prowess of technology,
• 31:25
  Speaker 14: falling behind.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: How can Europe and Germany bloom?
• 31:28
  Speaker 13: Well, he will be with me on stage tonight and
• 31:32
  Speaker 13: we will exactly debate these preconditions of investment in Germany.
• 31:37
  Speaker 13: And I very much hope that they will stick to
• 31:40
  Speaker 13: what they promised. We will have a joint declaration between
• 31:43
  Speaker 13: the company and the German government. in terms of investing
• 31:48
  Speaker 13: in Germany. And as far as I can see, this
• 31:50
  Speaker 13: company is really investing billions in our country.
• 31:54
  Speaker 14: Do you think Germany and Europe in general can really
• 31:57
  Speaker 14: bloom if it's stuck between the US and China?
• 32:01
  Speaker 13: Well, I have to confess that I was a little
• 32:04
  Speaker 13: bit cautious on using this word when Emmanuel Macron spoke
• 32:10
  Speaker 13: about it in the early 2017 when he came to office.
• 32:16
  Speaker 13: And he used this word of sovereignty, European sovereignty. And
• 32:20
  Speaker 13: in the meantime, I share that. We can really catch up.
• 32:23
  Speaker 13: We can really do that. We are a big market,
• 32:28
  Speaker 13: 450 million consumers, which is 100 million more than the
• 32:32
  Speaker 13: United States of America. So we have something to offer.
• 32:35
  Speaker 13: And we are in the meantime self-conscious enough to say, yes,
• 32:40
  Speaker 13: we can catch up and we will do that.
• 32:42
  Speaker 7: How?
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: By investment, by.
• 32:48
  Speaker 13: Cutting back red tape, which is one of the biggest
• 32:51
  Speaker 13: challenges for us on the European level and on the
• 32:53
  Speaker 13: national level as well, and by organizing such a summit
• 32:59
  Speaker 13: tonight and tomorrow, inviting investors to come to Germany and
• 33:02
  Speaker 13: showing them that this is a really high-ranking, technology-oriented country.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Chancellor, Europe is basically funding a lot of U.S. growth, right?
• 33:12
  Speaker 14: More than $ 300 billion is going to fund some of
• 33:15
  Speaker 14: the growth with investments in the U.S.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: I think $ 50 billion is also buying U.S. treasuries. Is
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: that money, can that money just be kept in Europe?
• 33:24
  Speaker 13: The answer is yes, provided we are creating a real
• 33:29
  Speaker 13: integrated capital market in Europe. And that's something we are
• 33:32
  Speaker 13: debating on for decades now. And we are trying to
• 33:35
  Speaker 13: come to solutions within the European Union on the European level.
• 33:39
  Speaker 13: We had this on the agenda last Thursday and Friday
• 33:42
  Speaker 13: when we met in Brussels for our European Council's meeting.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, we can and we will do.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: We will in our lifetime because we've been talking about
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: it for a long time.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: I'm much older than you are, I presume, in my lifetime, yes.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: How quickly?
• 33:59
  Speaker 13: Very fast because we strongly need that and we are
• 34:02
  Speaker 13: competing with other regions in the world. Europe is, as
• 34:06
  Speaker 13: I said, one of the biggest markets in the world,
• 34:09
  Speaker 13: and we should really implement now a capital market which
• 34:13
  Speaker 13: is able to invest our capital on the European continent.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: And that's the answer.
• 34:21
  Speaker 13: For example, IPOs go to New York and to the
• 34:24
  Speaker 13: Nasdaq there from Germany.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: This is not what I would like to see in
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: the upcoming future.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: But do you think there will be a reversal next year?
• 34:32
  Speaker 13: Within the next couple of years, we are doing our homework.
• 34:35
  Speaker 13: And as far as I can see, the capital markets
• 34:38
  Speaker 13: are really waiting for that. And that's the expectation we
• 34:41
  Speaker 13: have to meet.
• 34:42
  Speaker 14: Do you worry about the riots we've seen in France,
• 34:44
  Speaker 14: Milan and other European capitals?
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, I do. Definitely.
• 34:50
  Speaker 13: I had a conversation with Emmanuel Macron last Friday on that.
• 34:53
  Speaker 13: He's deeply concerned about what is happening in France and
• 34:56
  Speaker 13: what could happen in other countries of the European Union
• 34:59
  Speaker 13: as well. The reason for that is most likely non-integrated people, migration.
• 35:09
  Speaker 13: And parts of the voters are voting extremely right and
• 35:15
  Speaker 13: extremely left. And that is creating tensions and obviously riots
• 35:20
  Speaker 13: in some countries, including France.
• 35:23
  Speaker 14: I mean, some of the images were pretty shocking. And
• 35:24
  Speaker 14: we now hear about the French government actually putting a curfew.
• 35:28
  Speaker 14: Should you change the way that you look at public
• 35:31
  Speaker 14: order in case it arrives here?
• 35:34
  Speaker 13: No, I don't do that. I think we have to
• 35:35
  Speaker 13: keep public order in order, so to say. And we
• 35:42
  Speaker 13: have to give a clear message to those who want
• 35:45
  Speaker 13: to demonstrate.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Peacefully, you can always do that as.
• 35:48
  Speaker 13: Soon as it comes to casualties or to violence against policemen.
• 35:54
  Speaker 13: the limit has been achieved. And this is the point
• 35:57
  Speaker 13: where we send our police to the street.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Chancellor, what exactly is happening in Europe?
• 36:02
  Speaker 14: And I know you've mentioned immigration, but there seems to
• 36:06
  Speaker 14: be a malaise, which is actually very difficult for politicians to.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Get a grapple with.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 36:12
  Speaker 13: And that is something which concerns all of us deeply.
• 36:16
  Speaker 13: We are thinking about that.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: This is a.
• 36:20
  Speaker 13: Composition of uncertainty, uncertainty anxiousness, spending money for energy, which
• 36:31
  Speaker 13: is assumed as being too much, as Inflation rate is
• 36:37
  Speaker 13: going up.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Housing costs are growing.
• 36:42
  Speaker 13: So people are really fearing what is next and what
• 36:47
  Speaker 13: comes in our future and how can we establish our
• 36:51
  Speaker 13: future for our kids and for our grandchildren. And that
• 36:54
  Speaker 13: is something which is on the table of my government
• 36:57
  Speaker 13: as well to give people a certain degree of confidence
• 37:01
  Speaker 13: assurance and certainty that it's worthwhile to live in Germany,
• 37:06
  Speaker 13: to work in Germany, and that this remains a secure country.
• 37:09
  Speaker 14: Chancellor, 16 years ago, the Greek debt crisis almost brought
• 37:13
  Speaker 14: the euro to its knees. Today, I mean, AFD is
• 37:17
  Speaker 14: rising in the polls. They're talking about potentially leaving the euro.
• 37:21
  Speaker 14: Should we worry that it's the country that has been
• 37:23
  Speaker 14: the most stable for Europe and euro now making noise?
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Good point.
• 37:31
  Speaker 13: I will do anything what I can to keep this
• 37:35
  Speaker 13: country on track and stable. and assure my colleagues in
• 37:39
  Speaker 13: the European Union and in the monetary union that Germany
• 37:43
  Speaker 13: remains an anchor of the monetary union. This has always
• 37:48
  Speaker 13: been the case from the very beginning of the monetary
• 37:50
  Speaker 13: union and the monetary integration. And this is one of
• 37:54
  Speaker 13: our biggest tasks to do that, to stay to that,
• 37:57
  Speaker 13: to stick to that and to keep the Eurozone stable.
• 38:03
  Speaker 13: If Germany would leave the monetary union, the monetary union
• 38:08
  Speaker 13: for itself would collapse, but the biggest damage would come
• 38:11
  Speaker 13: to Germany, because we are really relying and benefiting from
• 38:16
  Speaker 13: this European integration. This is one of our biggest advantages
• 38:20
  Speaker 13: we are having in this country, and that's the reason
• 38:22
  Speaker 13: why I will be fighting for remaining within Europe, remaining
• 38:26
  Speaker 13: within the European Union and the monetary union.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: Do you think the citizens understand that?
• 38:31
  Speaker 13: Most of the citizens understand it, but we have to
• 38:35
  Speaker 13: explain it more than we did in the past. We
• 38:38
  Speaker 13: have to explain the reasons why Europe is so important
• 38:41
  Speaker 13: for all of us, why Europe is so important for
• 38:43
  Speaker 13: our economy. The German economy is the most export-oriented economy
• 38:49
  Speaker 13: in the entire European Union. So, if we are losing
• 38:53
  Speaker 13: the European Union as our ground for exports, This will
• 39:01
  Speaker 13: cause a big damage to our industry, and that's not
• 39:04
  Speaker 13: the reason why I'm fighting for that.
• 39:05
  Speaker 14: Chancellor, can the European Union really hold strong against the
• 39:08
  Speaker 14: forces against it, which is Trump, China and Russia?
• 39:13
  Speaker 13: Well, we are experiencing really a new time, which is
• 39:19
  Speaker 13: completely different from what we experienced last decades. And my
• 39:25
  Speaker 13: optimism is because we.
• 39:30
  Speaker 13: Are hearing the wake-up call and we are trying to
• 39:34
  Speaker 13: bring ourselves into a position which makes us strong enough
• 39:39
  Speaker 13: for competing, for defending ourselves independently within NATO, but on
• 39:47
  Speaker 13: the European pillar of NATO, which has to become much
• 39:50
  Speaker 13: stronger than it was in the past. And look what
• 39:52
  Speaker 13: we did last year in the Hague summit of NATO.
• 39:55
  Speaker 13: This was a breakthrough. The Europeans all were willing to
• 40:01
  Speaker 13: pay up to 3.5% of their budget, of their GDP,
• 40:06
  Speaker 13: in their budgets for defense.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: And this is something which is completely new.
• 40:09
  Speaker 14: But Chancellor, are you prepared for a world where the U.S.
• 40:13
  Speaker 14: is actually an ally of Russia against Ukraine?
• 40:17
  Speaker 13: Well, since the beginning of last year, The coalition of
• 40:23
  Speaker 13: the willing, combined out of Europeans and many non-European partners,
• 40:29
  Speaker 13: but not the U.S., are paying for Ukraine. Since the
• 40:34
  Speaker 13: beginning of last year, the U.S. are no longer contributing
• 40:41
  Speaker 13: to the defense of Ukraine in terms of paying for
• 40:46
  Speaker 13: weapons and for equipment. So this shows that we are
• 40:51
  Speaker 13: able to do that on our own. We are doing
• 40:54
  Speaker 13: this now almost since two years. It's really a big
• 41:01
  Speaker 13: effort for our budgets. It's really a big thing for
• 41:05
  Speaker 13: the European Union. But we are doing that, and we
• 41:08
  Speaker 13: are trying to keep on doing that until this terrible
• 41:12
  Speaker 13: war ends.
• 41:13
  Speaker 14: But, Chancellor, I mean, paying for yourself is different to
• 41:15
  Speaker 14: having the U.S. undermine Ukraine and undermine President Zelensky. Is
• 41:20
  Speaker 14: he being used as a scapegoat because of the midterm
• 41:23
  Speaker 14: elections and what's happening in Iran?
• 41:25
  Speaker 13: Well, I'm trying to convince Donald Trump each time I'm
• 41:32
  Speaker 13: meeting him that this should be in his own interest,
• 41:38
  Speaker 13: a stable Europe, European continent, European Union as a partner
• 41:43
  Speaker 13: in the world is something which is worthwhile for the
• 41:45
  Speaker 13: Americans as well.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: So they are not alone.
• 41:49
  Speaker 13: We are willing to cooperate within NATO, within our international framework.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: But the U.S.
• 41:55
  Speaker 13: Have to take their own decisions on that. But my
• 41:59
  Speaker 13: conviction is very, very clear. We are trying to stabilize
• 42:03
  Speaker 13: the transatlantic relationship. And we are making the NATO agreement,
• 42:10
  Speaker 13: the NATO in total, stronger with a stronger European pillar.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: And that is what we have already achieved.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: But do you call President Trump? And what does he
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: reply to you?
• 42:19
  Speaker 13: We regularly call. We are regularly meeting each other. We
• 42:23
  Speaker 13: will have the next G20 meeting in Miami by the
• 42:26
  Speaker 13: end of this year.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: So, we have very often the opportunity to speak. And
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: we are.
• 42:31
  Speaker 13: Trying to— I' m trying to convince him that this is in
• 42:34
  Speaker 13: his own interest.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Is it working? Because something has changed in the last
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: four days.
• 42:40
  Speaker 13: I'm not so sure. We are seeing mixed pictures and
• 42:45
  Speaker 13: messages from the U.S. There are some who are still
• 42:48
  Speaker 13: very engaged in terms of negotiating, talking with each other,
• 42:52
  Speaker 13: talking with Ukraine, talking with Russia. There are others who
• 42:56
  Speaker 13: are having a different view. For some, it's a business case.
• 43:00
  Speaker 13: But I'm trying to convince the American government in total
• 43:04
  Speaker 13: that this is something we have to resolve jointly.
• 43:07
  Speaker 14: Why do you think that the U.S. administration … is
• 43:10
  Speaker 14: doing this now?
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Because the US.
• 43:15
  Speaker 13: Under this presidency have fundamentally changed their global approach. And
• 43:20
  Speaker 13: making America great again says nothing more than we are
• 43:24
  Speaker 13: working on our own and all the others have to
• 43:27
  Speaker 13: do the same. So, the European answer is yes, we understood.
• 43:31
  Speaker 13: We are working on our behalf and we are working
• 43:35
  Speaker 13: in our own interest.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: But if they're not paying for defense of Ukraine, Well.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: Look what we did in the past. We are really
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: catching up.
• 43:43
  Speaker 13: We are spending up to 5% of our GDP for defense.
• 43:47
  Speaker 13: We are doing that within the European Union. We are
• 43:49
  Speaker 13: doing that with our European allies. We are doing that
• 43:52
  Speaker 13: together with Canada, who is as European as this country
• 43:55
  Speaker 13: was never before. So, we are having real allies in
• 43:59
  Speaker 13: the world. We are having trade agreements in the world.
• 44:02
  Speaker 13: Mercosur is one of those. India is the next one.
• 44:05
  Speaker 13: So we are looking for allies and partnerships across the world.
• 44:10
  Speaker 13: And we are finding allies who are in the same direction,
• 44:13
  Speaker 13: thinking in the same direction.
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: Like we do.
• 44:15
  Speaker 14: But Chancellor, at the same time, Germany is the biggest
• 44:17
  Speaker 14: contributor to defensive Ukraine. That's made you a target. Do
• 44:23
  Speaker 14: the German people, will they stay behind it?
• 44:27
  Speaker 13: They still do. And we are seeing the criticism. We
• 44:30
  Speaker 13: are seeing people who are not.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: Supporting that but still a majority of roughly.
• 44:38
  Speaker 13: 60% is in favor for that I see the critics
• 44:42
  Speaker 13: but I don't share.
• 44:43
  Speaker 14: That Do you see it at some point very difficult
• 44:46
  Speaker 14: for you to sell it to the citizens?
• 44:48
  Speaker 13: Not in the foreseeable future, but this could happen one day.
• 44:52
  Speaker 13: I very much hope that we will be able to
• 44:56
  Speaker 13: contribute to bring this war to an end.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: And this is our main.
• 45:01
  Speaker 13: Goal, not to prolong the war. Our goal is to
• 45:06
  Speaker 13: bring this terrible war.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: To an end.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Under Ukrainian's terms, not U.S. or Russia's?
• 45:12
  Speaker 13: Well, Ukraine is an independent country. And the key condition
• 45:18
  Speaker 13: is the preservation of this country, of the integrity of
• 45:26
  Speaker 13: this country, the territorial integrity of this country.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: And that is not to dispute.
• 45:31
  Speaker 14: Chancellor, if you had President Trump here with us today,
• 45:33
  Speaker 14: what would you tell him? Is there a hard truth
• 45:35
  Speaker 14: that he needs to hear to be able to soften
• 45:38
  Speaker 14: his stance?
• 45:40
  Speaker 13: Well, there is an old, I think, African saying, which means,
• 45:45
  Speaker 13: if you want to go fast, go alone. If you
• 45:49
  Speaker 13: want to go far, go together. And that's my answer.
• 45:53
  Speaker 13: We want to go far. And if we want to
• 45:56
  Speaker 13: go far and we could go far, then we should
• 45:59
  Speaker 13: go together.
• 46:01
  Speaker 14: China, I want to also, Chancellor, ask you about China,
• 46:03
  Speaker 14: because the EU's most recent trade measures on hybrids and
• 46:05
  Speaker 14: the plan for broader caps seems to suggest that actually
• 46:08
  Speaker 14: a trade war between the EU and China is here.
• 46:11
  Speaker 14: Is there anything that Beijing needs to avert a further escalation?
• 46:16
  Speaker 13: Well, the answer is clear. We don't want a trade
• 46:20
  Speaker 13: war with China. We had a general debate on global
• 46:25
  Speaker 13: imbalances on China. Thursday night in Brussels, behind closed doors,
• 46:31
  Speaker 13: very open, and surprisingly for me, very clear, with a
• 46:37
  Speaker 13: very clear position from every 27 heads of governments or
• 46:44
  Speaker 13: state in this group, that we have to give an
• 46:48
  Speaker 13: answer to imbalances, to overcapacities, to subsidies, to undervalued currencies,
• 46:56
  Speaker 13: and that we are feeling strong enough to come into
• 47:00
  Speaker 13: a discussion. We are offering something, which is the tariff-free
• 47:05
  Speaker 13: access to one of the biggest markets in the world,
• 47:09
  Speaker 13: but this is under preconditions, and the precondition is fair trade.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Which, so far, they haven't accepted.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: Well, the first.
• 47:19
  Speaker 13: Indication that this could really have an effect on our
• 47:22
  Speaker 13: relation is that obviously the government in Beijing is willing
• 47:27
  Speaker 13: to accept a limited number of car imports to the
• 47:31
  Speaker 13: European Union, which was not the case in the last
• 47:34
  Speaker 13: couple of weeks and months.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: So we are making progresses.
• 47:37
  Speaker 14: But do you think Germany's car industry still has the
• 47:39
  Speaker 14: potential to counter the flood of subsidized Chinese e-cars?
• 47:45
  Speaker 13: It depends on the framework and the political conditions.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: We are trying to formulate them newly.
• 47:53
  Speaker 13: And we decided, by the way, on combustion engines as
• 47:58
  Speaker 13: well on Friday morning between France and Germany, which is
• 48:01
  Speaker 13: now giving the way free for a common European position
• 48:06
  Speaker 13: in this particular area. Yes, I'm sure that we have
• 48:12
  Speaker 13: the potential, but there is a big transformation happening in
• 48:15
  Speaker 13: the industry and that is something they have to do
• 48:18
  Speaker 13: on their own. We are giving the framework, we are
• 48:20
  Speaker 13: giving the political opportunities, but the companies have to do
• 48:25
  Speaker 13: their own homework.
• 48:27
  Speaker 14: Chancellor, we've talked about some of the hiccups, the concerns,
• 48:31
  Speaker 14: the problems that you're faced with on a daily basis.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: What do you worry about the most, fundamentally?
• 48:37
  Speaker 13: Fundamentally, my biggest concern is the underestimated Russian impact on
• 48:46
  Speaker 13: our societies, which has to do with the war in Ukraine.
• 48:51
  Speaker 13: But this is only a part of the picture. The
• 48:55
  Speaker 13: big picture is that Russia is on the way to
• 48:58
  Speaker 13: destabilize the entire political order of our European continent. And
• 49:05
  Speaker 13: this is obviously underestimated by many people in my country
• 49:11
  Speaker 13: as well.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: In which way?
• 49:13
  Speaker 13: That they don't see what the goal of Russia really is.
• 49:17
  Speaker 13: And this is not only territorial gain in Ukraine. This
• 49:22
  Speaker 13: goes far beyond. And they are fearing democracy, they are
• 49:26
  Speaker 13: fearing open societies, they are fearing the success of the
• 49:30
  Speaker 13: European integration, and they want to undermine this success. And
• 49:35
  Speaker 13: they are on the way to do so. And as
• 49:38
  Speaker 13: I said, many people, including in my own country, are
• 49:43
  Speaker 13: underestimating the threat, which is really.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: There every day.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: And is that enabled by the U.S.
• 49:50
  Speaker 13: Well, the U.S. is territorial, far apart from Russia. This
• 49:57
  Speaker 13: is our continent. Russia is a European country, and this
• 50:01
  Speaker 13: is the European country which is under threat, and that's
• 50:05
  Speaker 13: my concern.
• 50:08
  Speaker 6: The German Chancellor Friedrich Merz in conversation with Bloomberg's Francine
• 50:11
  Speaker 6: Lacroix in Berlin earlier today.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: Striking, Joe, to hear.
• 50:15
  Speaker 6: Him when asked an open-ended question about what worries him
• 50:18
  Speaker 6: the most, that his answer was immediately Russia and an
• 50:21
  Speaker 6: underestimation of Russia's ultimate desires when it pertains to the
• 50:25
  Speaker 6: European continent. And that was after, of course, he repeatedly
• 50:28
  Speaker 6: told Francine that he's trying to convince President Trump and
• 50:31
  Speaker 6: other officials within the administration that it's in their own
• 50:33
  Speaker 6: interests to to defend Ukraine, contrast that with the moves
• 50:37
  Speaker 6: President Trump made over the weekend to waive further sanctions
• 50:41
  Speaker 6: on Russia after making a diesel deal with Russia as well.
• 50:43
  Speaker 9: Remarkable conversations the last 24 hours on Bloomberg to hear
• 50:46
  Speaker 9: from the leader of Germany, just a day after we
• 50:50
  Speaker 9: heard from Volodymyr Zelensky, saying my latest model was, talking
• 50:55
  Speaker 9: about his interactions with the U.S., we don't target Russian diesel.
• 50:59
  Speaker 9: You give us missiles for Patriot Systems to protect our facilities,
• 51:02
  Speaker 9: but they just want us to stop attacking diesel, he said.
• 51:05
  Speaker 9: And if we strike that, they will disconnect us from something,
• 51:08
  Speaker 9: referring presumably to Starlink, maybe funding or other intelligence support.
• 51:14
  Speaker 9: This is a precarious moment here with the war with Russia.
• 51:17
  Speaker 9: And obviously, neighbors in Europe are watching very closely. And
• 51:22
  Speaker 9: as Francine pointed out, Germany is leading the charge here
• 51:25
  Speaker 9: on funding this war effort for Ukraine. The conversation with
• 51:29
  Speaker 9: President Trump must be a tortured one at this point.
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 51:32
  Speaker 6: And of course, the president is thinking about not just
• 51:34
  Speaker 6: geopolitical motivations, but domestic motivations as well in his attempt
• 51:37
  Speaker 6: to get diesel prices down. I would imagine we'll hear
• 51:39
  Speaker 6: more about that when he takes the stage in Kansas
• 51:42
  Speaker 6: later today in the latest iteration of his midterm final
• 51:45
  Speaker 6: sprint tour across the country. We'll have more on that
• 51:47
  Speaker 6: when we rejoin you for the late edition of Balance
• 51:49
  Speaker 6: of Power at 5 p.m. Eastern time right here on
• 51:52
  Speaker 6: Bloomberg TV and radio.
• 51:56
  Speaker 8: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make
• 51:59
  Speaker 8: sure to subscribe if you haven't already at Apple, Spotify,
• 52:02
  Speaker 8: or wherever you get your podcasts. And you can find
• 52:05
  Speaker 8: us live every weekday from Washington, D.C. at noontime Eastern
• 52:09
  Speaker 8: at Bloomberg.com.