Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Nancy Grace Killer Reads: The Hunting Wives

Transcript

Nancy Grace Killer Reads: The Hunting Wives · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Killer reads the Nancy Grace Book Club today book number
0:11
Speaker 1: one and what a read this is joining me the
0:16
Speaker 1: author of The Hunting Wives, The Hunting Wives, May Cobb,
0:24
Speaker 1: and I got a lot of questions for her, and
0:26
Speaker 1: many of them are going to be personal. May so
0:28
Speaker 1: buckle up also with me? And boy, do we need
0:31
Speaker 1: a shrink? Where now? Psychiatrists joining us out of the
0:34
Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction, Doctor Angela Arnold, MD at Angela Arnold MD
0:39
Speaker 1: dot com. And renowned forensics expert Karen Smith, Lecturer, University
0:46
Speaker 1: of Florida, star of Shattered Souls podcast and you can
0:50
Speaker 1: find her at bar Bone Forensics dot com and you'll
0:53
Speaker 1: find out why we need a forensics expert and why
0:57
Speaker 1: we need a shrink. But first of all, may I
1:01
Speaker 1: don't I guess this is a compliment. There were many
1:05
Speaker 1: times when reading your book I felt hot all over
1:10
Speaker 1: and just I would close it and put it down.
1:14
Speaker 1: I'm I can't, I can't do this, and of course
1:16
Speaker 1: it would then open it up again and keep reading.
1:23
Speaker 1: My producer here in the studio, Jackie, same thing. We'd
1:27
Speaker 1: read it and I can't do this anymore, and of
1:32
Speaker 1: course run back to it and open it up and
1:35
Speaker 1: read some more. Guys. This is the story of Sophie O'Neill,
1:41
Speaker 1: and she has this glamorous job in Chicago where she
1:47
Speaker 1: does I don't know, I guess lifestyle articles. And so
1:54
Speaker 1: she's surrounded by beautiful people and I'm saying that with
1:58
Speaker 1: quotes and beautiful homes and beautiful stories, and then she
2:06
Speaker 1: wants to get away from it all and it hits
2:10
Speaker 1: her as it did me once when I was in
2:12
Speaker 1: a park in New York City and it was an
2:17
Speaker 1: asphalt park painted green the Asshaalts painted green, kind of
2:21
Speaker 1: like a tennis court, and there was a chain link
2:24
Speaker 1: around it, and I had the twins with me. They
2:28
Speaker 1: could barely walk. And that's when they still wouldn't wear shoes.
2:31
Speaker 1: They were wearing socks and all bundled up and to
2:36
Speaker 1: swing on a swing set. For each swing it was
2:40
Speaker 1: ten people deep. And then here's the clincher. Once you
2:44
Speaker 1: got on the swing, you could only have ten pushes.
2:46
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what this is just draw So anyway,
2:50
Speaker 1: Sophie leaves Chicago with her awesome husband Graham and their
2:56
Speaker 1: little boy Jack and they move to Mapleton. I don't
3:01
Speaker 1: know if that's a real place. Or not Texas version
3:05
Speaker 1: along view Where I'm From a fictionalized version of Where
3:09
Speaker 1: You're From. Now. May Cob earned her m a. In
3:12
Speaker 1: literature from San franci San Francisco State University. Or essays
3:17
Speaker 1: have appeared everywhere, including The Washington Post, The Rumpus, Edible,
3:22
Speaker 1: Austin Austin Monthly. Now when I hear Rumpus and Edible
3:26
Speaker 1: Austin and Austin Monthly, that makes me think of beautiful
3:31
Speaker 1: people and beautiful food articles. Is this true, man? It
3:35
Speaker 1: is true. It's very true. I think I know who
3:40
Speaker 1: Sophie is. Oh no, now, your debut novel was Big
3:46
Speaker 1: Woods and at one a lot of awards. Um, okay, mate,
3:52
Speaker 1: let's just get right down to it. I hate these women.
3:56
Speaker 1: I hate every single one of them. The ladies on
4:00
Speaker 1: the panel, but the ladies in this book. They're all filthy, rich,
4:05
Speaker 1: they have these wonderful lives. And you're a heroine. I
4:09
Speaker 1: guess I could call her a heroine. She's let's just
4:13
Speaker 1: say she's not afraid of a cocktail. Let's just start
4:16
Speaker 1: with that. With her little boy, and all she thinks
4:20
Speaker 1: about is getting in with this rich click of snobby women.
4:25
Speaker 1: Where does she come from guilty as charged. Yes she is.
4:30
Speaker 1: She's getting in with the wrong crowd, making bad decisions,
4:34
Speaker 1: and these women are wicked and devious and they're just
4:39
Speaker 1: up to no good, and she's she's going to get
4:42
Speaker 1: in over her head. I mean it starts like at
4:44
Speaker 1: the very very beginning, doctor Angie Arnold. I mean, did
4:49
Speaker 1: you say you're a shrink, you're a psychiatrist. I mean
4:52
Speaker 1: that in a loving, caring way. I mean, right at
4:55
Speaker 1: the beginning. I just want to snap her little hand
4:59
Speaker 1: and say, say, stay away from these women, especially she
5:03
Speaker 1: kind of has a girl crush on the lead. But
5:07
Speaker 1: you know, rich Margot, I mean, she moved to a
5:12
Speaker 1: small town, and it sounds like these are the most
5:14
Speaker 1: interesting people in the town. You know what. I take
5:17
Speaker 1: issue with that, doctor Angela Arnold. Where did you grow up?
5:19
Speaker 1: Let's just start with that, Tennessee. So you know, having
5:24
Speaker 1: grown up in the middle of nowhere, there are a
5:28
Speaker 1: lot of interesting people in the middle of nowhere, doctor Angela.
5:34
Speaker 1: Though maybe they were interesting because they were bad. What's
5:38
Speaker 1: your inspiration? May well, gosh, I'm gonna take the fifth No,
5:43
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. So growing up in long View, it
5:46
Speaker 1: was such an interesting place because it is it's a
5:49
Speaker 1: smaller city, but it was big enough to have like
5:52
Speaker 1: a mall, and it's kind of it is in the
5:55
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere. It's two hours east of Dallas, an
5:58
Speaker 1: hour from street sports. So it also has like, in
6:02
Speaker 1: addition to being rural, it has a lot of oil money.
6:05
Speaker 1: So you there was this high society component there, and
6:09
Speaker 1: it was a little bit like the television show Dallas,
6:13
Speaker 1: kind of on steroids, where there was a lot of
6:15
Speaker 1: people with a lot of money and not enough to do.
6:18
Speaker 1: And so it's sort of a recipe for hijienks and
6:22
Speaker 1: disaster and murder. Not that the murder happened well my
6:27
Speaker 1: real life or anything, but well you may call it hijinks,
6:32
Speaker 1: but I call it murder and a champted murder and
6:37
Speaker 1: aggravated assault. I mean, there's just so many crimes here.
6:40
Speaker 1: I didn't know which way to turn. But one thing
6:43
Speaker 1: back to you, doctor Angela Arnold, before we bring in
6:45
Speaker 1: our forensics expert, what is it about human nature? And
6:51
Speaker 1: May Cobb guys were talking about an incredible knee book.
6:57
Speaker 1: It's like a train, except you can't look away from
7:03
Speaker 1: it at all. You just have to read to the
7:06
Speaker 1: next page, and I'm not going to give it away,
7:10
Speaker 1: but when I saw why the cop kept coming back
7:15
Speaker 1: and back and back to speak to Sophie, I just
7:18
Speaker 1: I felt sick. Sick. What is it, doctor Angela Arnold,
7:25
Speaker 1: that makes us hang out with people we know we're
7:29
Speaker 1: bad for us? Nancy? I think, because first of all, Nancy,
7:33
Speaker 1: while I was reading this, let's be honest, we all
7:36
Speaker 1: do this. I think that's one of the things that
7:40
Speaker 1: pulls us into this book. Also, we all participate in
7:44
Speaker 1: this activity, and it's I think that we look for
7:51
Speaker 1: different parts of ourselves through these other people. Maybe they
7:56
Speaker 1: do things that we could never ever in our lives,
8:00
Speaker 1: but by gosh, we want to watch them and feel
8:04
Speaker 1: the way those things could make us feel if we
8:07
Speaker 1: actually could do them. I'm trying to soak in what
8:10
Speaker 1: you're saying, you know. I felt so bad for the husband, Graham,
8:15
Speaker 1: who's just this great guy married to Sophie. And the
8:19
Speaker 1: first night she comes home late, okay, the second night,
8:24
Speaker 1: and then the third night, and it's not like she's
8:27
Speaker 1: out running around with another man. She's at with her
8:31
Speaker 1: friend girls, the so called hunting wives. Hold on, ma'am
8:36
Speaker 1: getting a question, Kay in Denver how long does it
8:39
Speaker 1: take once you start writing a book to complete your
8:43
Speaker 1: character story? Gosh, for The Hunting Wives, this one, it
8:48
Speaker 1: actually came out pretty quickly. I wrote it sort of
8:51
Speaker 1: in a fever, maybe because it is like a train wreck,
8:55
Speaker 1: and I couldn't look away as the author either, So
8:58
Speaker 1: I wrote the whole thing in about seven months. Wow,
9:02
Speaker 1: I'm impressed. I'm impressed. So there's your answer, k in Denver.
9:07
Speaker 1: Seven months you wrote the whole thing. May Cob is
9:10
Speaker 1: with us, the author of a brand new book. Her
9:13
Speaker 1: second stab at it, pardon the pun. Her first was
9:17
Speaker 1: Big Woods, and now it's The Hunting Wives. And I
9:21
Speaker 1: will reveal this much. I also was a little obsessed
9:26
Speaker 1: with Margot miss Perfect, because every time you describe her,
9:32
Speaker 1: whether she's got on some elegant evening gown at some
9:36
Speaker 1: charity event and you write down to the jewelry, you
9:41
Speaker 1: describe her skin as tan and everybody, these ladies, their
9:48
Speaker 1: skin looks perfect and softly. They just rubbed in suntan
9:52
Speaker 1: lotion or something, or had one of those expensive spots reatments.
9:55
Speaker 1: I don't even know what you would call them, but
9:57
Speaker 1: the way you describe them is so luring. And then
10:04
Speaker 1: you've got her in the bikini and it's perfect on her.
10:07
Speaker 1: And you know, I don't even I guess I was
10:12
Speaker 1: in the seventh grade when I looked perfect in a bikini.
10:14
Speaker 1: I haven't been wanted to look against since then. But
10:18
Speaker 1: there are these women out there that look perfect, and
10:21
Speaker 1: then we find there anything but perfect make up. How
10:25
Speaker 1: did you get these descriptions so perfectly? And they are evil?
10:30
Speaker 1: I think everyone in that little clique is evil. Everyone
10:36
Speaker 1: they are. They're all just they're devilish and horrible. And well,
10:41
Speaker 1: first of all, thank you so much. I'm so glad
10:44
Speaker 1: you found Margot alluring to that. I really tried to
10:48
Speaker 1: make the reader, you know, be as intoxicated with her
10:51
Speaker 1: as Sophie, and I just it's sort of like it's
10:56
Speaker 1: not biographical at all, or but there are women, and
11:01
Speaker 1: there are women like this in East Texas, and so
11:04
Speaker 1: a lot of the descriptions just came from, you know, honestly,
11:07
Speaker 1: growing up there and the glamour and the glitz and
11:11
Speaker 1: all of that when we're staying in the middle of nowhere.
11:14
Speaker 1: I kind of I use the phrase, but I also
11:19
Speaker 1: take offence to it because I grew up in rural
11:21
Speaker 1: Middle Georgia, and we were in unincorporated bib County, but
11:25
Speaker 1: there was a lot going on. It was definitely not
11:28
Speaker 1: nowhere in my mind, but geographically it's kind of out
11:32
Speaker 1: in the middle of a very wooded area. And speaking
11:36
Speaker 1: of wooded area, you have you have several red herrings
11:39
Speaker 1: in there that I like a lot. So I'm just
11:43
Speaker 1: curious about how you came up with these women. I
11:45
Speaker 1: think you patterned them after someone, but you're not saying that.
11:50
Speaker 1: All right, there is a murder. There is a murder.
11:54
Speaker 1: I'm not going to give it away. Yes there is,
12:00
Speaker 1: but let me just ask Karen Smith, forensics expert and
12:04
Speaker 1: host of Shadow Souls podcast. There is a big difference
12:09
Speaker 1: when you're trying to process a scene, a murder scene
12:14
Speaker 1: inside a structure like a home, a kitchen, a bedroom,
12:18
Speaker 1: a garage like in Jennifer Dulos. We know that's where
12:21
Speaker 1: she was killed because there's so much blood in her garage.
12:24
Speaker 1: That's a Connecticut missing mom of five. Or outdoors. Let's
12:28
Speaker 1: tackle outdoors first, Karen Smith to process a saying forensically,
12:33
Speaker 1: a murder out doors is very difficult. Yeah, you pull
12:40
Speaker 1: out all the stuff. I mean, this is where the
12:42
Speaker 1: major case truck comes in when you have something out
12:45
Speaker 1: in the woods. You're talking metal detectors and shovels and
12:48
Speaker 1: rakes and all kinds of different forensic tools that we
12:52
Speaker 1: have to use. It inside of a home or inside
12:54
Speaker 1: of a building is a lot easier. We can turn
12:56
Speaker 1: the lights off, you know, we have to use lumin
12:58
Speaker 1: all or an alternate light source. Outside we have to
13:01
Speaker 1: wait for the sun to go down. That could be
13:03
Speaker 1: a twelve fifteen hour day. You're tired. Completely different stuff,
13:07
Speaker 1: And I have to say, this is so compelling. She
13:11
Speaker 1: has flipped the script making the women the evil ones.
13:15
Speaker 1: You know, we read and see movies all the time
13:17
Speaker 1: with the men or the evil men, and this is
13:19
Speaker 1: so fascinating to hear that the women are this devious
13:24
Speaker 1: and this horrible. And I have to say, from that
13:27
Speaker 1: description of the characters, looks can be deceiving. I live
13:31
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. The women here are gorgeous, but underneath,
13:36
Speaker 1: who knows. I got a horrible complex living out in
13:41
Speaker 1: LA During Dancing with the Stars, everybody is tall and
13:45
Speaker 1: skinny and perfectly natural fake blonde hair. I mean they're
13:52
Speaker 1: all perfect teeth, perfect everything. And then there was me,
13:57
Speaker 1: So you know, I'm wondering how Sophie fitted too that
14:00
Speaker 1: dynamic may I too had a complex living in LA
14:04
Speaker 1: and had to come home to Texas because I did
14:08
Speaker 1: not sit in UM so there might be there might
14:12
Speaker 1: be a little bit of me and Sophie. UM. And
14:15
Speaker 1: I think Sophie, you know, does have you know, some
14:18
Speaker 1: natural beauty and things, but she definitely is outmatched with
14:22
Speaker 1: this group of women. And I do think that's part
14:25
Speaker 1: of the pool for her is that you know, she's
14:28
Speaker 1: been in Chicago and she's been around you know, from
14:30
Speaker 1: her work in magazine like glitzy, glamorous stuff. But this
14:34
Speaker 1: is like a different This is a different animal altogether.
14:39
Speaker 1: These fasty, southern, very well healed women with not a
14:44
Speaker 1: lot that they have a lot to lose, but they don't.
14:47
Speaker 1: They kind of don't care if they're gonna lose it,
14:48
Speaker 1: and they're above the law in a lot of ways. UM.
14:51
Speaker 1: And I don't know if I got off track with
14:53
Speaker 1: your question, but UM, yes, I don't know. I'm totally
14:58
Speaker 1: into what you're saying, because again, I'm putting myself in
15:02
Speaker 1: that spot and the thought that I could do something
15:07
Speaker 1: that would make me lose my twins and my husband
15:12
Speaker 1: forget about our house or beat up minivan, or any
15:18
Speaker 1: possession we may have. But the thought of being away
15:23
Speaker 1: from my twins me doing something that ends in that.
15:26
Speaker 1: I mean every time she gets with these women, they're
15:32
Speaker 1: the hunting wives, that's what they call themselves, because they
15:35
Speaker 1: skeet shoot at night. Okay, every time she gets with them,
15:40
Speaker 1: something bad happens. Yet she keeps going back. Now, you
15:45
Speaker 1: tell us may about what in her history makes her
15:49
Speaker 1: take these chances, and about her life with her mother
15:56
Speaker 1: and her absent father. How she gets bored this beautiful town,
16:02
Speaker 1: with this beautiful home, this great husband, and people the
16:06
Speaker 1: nail on the head. A lot of it has to
16:08
Speaker 1: do with Sophie's childhood. So her mother race her in
16:11
Speaker 1: this very rootless way. She was a traveling ur nurse
16:15
Speaker 1: and the father abandoned them when Sophie was little, and
16:19
Speaker 1: so the mother would move her from town to town,
16:22
Speaker 1: and she was, you know, pretty slidy and just not
16:26
Speaker 1: stable at all. She always had a different man because
16:31
Speaker 1: and I'm not a man hater, contrary to what many
16:33
Speaker 1: people believe. I don't hate man. I just hate man
16:36
Speaker 1: that commit felonies. Now you've got this made up town
16:39
Speaker 1: of Mapleton, But one of your scenes really stuck in
16:43
Speaker 1: my mind. How Sophie as a little girl, I guess eleven.
16:47
Speaker 1: I have that in my head was in her room,
16:51
Speaker 1: reading or doing something in her room, and the only
16:57
Speaker 1: time her mom would interact with hers when she'd stick
17:01
Speaker 1: her head out of her room and tell Sophie to
17:04
Speaker 1: run in the kitchen and bring her a peach knops. Yeah. Yeah,
17:08
Speaker 1: And that was her mother interaction with her because she
17:11
Speaker 1: has some guy back there, and you would hear all
17:14
Speaker 1: the laughter or in the canoedling, and then there is
17:17
Speaker 1: Sophie just in her rent. Yes, yes, So that that
17:21
Speaker 1: I love that that's stuck out for you because that
17:23
Speaker 1: really was That's a formative thing for Sophie. It is
17:26
Speaker 1: just that kind of role model. And so she grows
17:30
Speaker 1: up and she wants stability. But then there's this other
17:33
Speaker 1: part of her that's always craved like the bad boy,
17:35
Speaker 1: and in this case, it happens to be the bad girl.
17:38
Speaker 1: So she's all she's known as sort of that kind
17:42
Speaker 1: of you know, unstable, you know, family life. So as
17:45
Speaker 1: much as she really wants to cling to her beautiful
17:48
Speaker 1: husband and wonderful toddler, there's this other side to her
17:52
Speaker 1: that's very much wanting something bad, unsavory, that's not good
17:55
Speaker 1: for her. It's almost like she can't believe she can
17:59
Speaker 1: have ability because you know, that's not what she was
18:02
Speaker 1: used to as a kid. And then part of it's
18:06
Speaker 1: just runaway physical attraction for Margo. So some of it
18:10
Speaker 1: is the childhood and I'm not really buying that. May
18:15
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you wrote the book, but I
18:18
Speaker 1: don't think it's her runaway physical attraction to Margo. Yeah,
18:23
Speaker 1: Margo's very sexy, very pretty, but she's in love with
18:28
Speaker 1: her husband, or so we think. I think it is
18:33
Speaker 1: something else. I think it's that dangerous loss exactly. That's it, Nancy,
18:38
Speaker 1: And I'm I'm gonna borrow that and give you credit
18:41
Speaker 1: because that stuffs what it is. She's thinking danger like
18:44
Speaker 1: so many people do. Can I tell you something. I
18:47
Speaker 1: had a best friend that was a defense attorney with
18:51
Speaker 1: the greatest personality, very gregarious, pretty, beauty, coin smart, the works,
19:00
Speaker 1: and but she represents Doper's so you can only hang
19:08
Speaker 1: out with her so much before somebody lights up, Okay,
19:12
Speaker 1: And to me, that is my queue to get out
19:14
Speaker 1: of there, or at least at the time, because I
19:17
Speaker 1: had so much to lose as a district attorney. That's
19:20
Speaker 1: the last thing I needed to be around with somebody
19:23
Speaker 1: having to joint at a get together. No, I mean
19:27
Speaker 1: and now with children and a husband. What is it
19:31
Speaker 1: may that was so alluring about this femphatality. The only
19:36
Speaker 1: way I could put it in Margot, who really, according
19:39
Speaker 1: to one question we've got, Margot is like the queen
19:45
Speaker 1: Bee in high school. Everyone wants to be in her
19:48
Speaker 1: click yeah, yeah, I mean, why didn't she hear the
19:53
Speaker 1: signals like, for instance, we'll just have one more drink
19:56
Speaker 1: or swear you won't tell, or standing by and you
20:00
Speaker 1: see things that are wrong and I'm not gonna fool
20:04
Speaker 1: your plot. You see things that are wrong happening around you,
20:09
Speaker 1: but you keep going back. I do. I think it's
20:12
Speaker 1: that broken piece of Sophie that is definitely has a
20:16
Speaker 1: hole in her heart from when her dad left, and
20:18
Speaker 1: I think it's it's it is that, and part of
20:22
Speaker 1: it is that boredom thing where she was used to
20:25
Speaker 1: having more. And then she gets, you know, she gets
20:28
Speaker 1: the grass that's supposed to be green and it's it's
20:31
Speaker 1: too green. And there's the crickets are louder than they
20:34
Speaker 1: should be and the walls are closing in, so there's
20:37
Speaker 1: just not enough to do. And these women are so
20:39
Speaker 1: much fun and part of her, really, I think, wants
20:42
Speaker 1: to see how far they'll go. So even with the
20:45
Speaker 1: warning signs, when she finally does sort of wake up
20:49
Speaker 1: and realize I'm done, she's passed the point and overturned.
20:54
Speaker 1: So well, wait a minute, you may when a cop
20:58
Speaker 1: knocks on her door that point, because she had so
21:01
Speaker 1: many times that she could say I'm out of this,
21:04
Speaker 1: I don't. And another thing, being a mom, how do
21:07
Speaker 1: you get bored? I don't get it because there's always
21:09
Speaker 1: something I need to be doing. You know how far
21:12
Speaker 1: behind I am on scrapbooking? I mean much less, you know,
21:17
Speaker 1: just just just too much. It's like drinking out of the
21:19
Speaker 1: the fire, Hydrank. I guess it's kind of what you want.
21:23
Speaker 1: But you know, another thing I really liked about what
21:26
Speaker 1: you did was the way you described her obsession with
21:30
Speaker 1: this woman. You say it's sex, but that's just you
21:33
Speaker 1: may cob, because I'm not buying that. I think it's
21:37
Speaker 1: that she wants some other life, and I think a
21:40
Speaker 1: lot of people have that. Did you see that, doctor
21:43
Speaker 1: Angela Arnold? You're the shrink. Okay, you're the MD. I'm
21:46
Speaker 1: just a JD. But she would obsessively look at Margot's
21:52
Speaker 1: Facebook and all of the glamorous photos on there, and
21:57
Speaker 1: she would drink in like she was bursting to death,
22:01
Speaker 1: every detail about what Margot was wearing, and her hair
22:06
Speaker 1: was so sleek, and she had a necklace like they
22:09
Speaker 1: just sat right in the middle of her cleavage, and
22:12
Speaker 1: she just sucked up every detail on Facebook. Don't people
22:17
Speaker 1: know that's all fake? Well, it's fake, but you know
22:21
Speaker 1: what else, Nancy Facebook? Facebook does all of that on pampas,
22:25
Speaker 1: and it's built to pull us in. And so if
22:28
Speaker 1: there's any little part of you that wants to be
22:31
Speaker 1: pulled in and has the time and inclination to be
22:34
Speaker 1: pulled in like that, that's exactly what Facebook is for.
22:38
Speaker 1: I have to wonder if she was fulfilling something because
22:43
Speaker 1: she was so ignored by her mother growing up. But
22:49
Speaker 1: about that may, I actually think that's very on point. Yeah,
22:55
Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense to me. I didn't
22:57
Speaker 1: consciously think of that and while I was writing it,
22:59
Speaker 1: but I think that's very true. She's seeking mags that attention,
23:05
Speaker 1: and you're so right about Facebook, like all of our
23:09
Speaker 1: lives are so curated for social media that that you know,
23:13
Speaker 1: Margot is on display and Sophie's just she's unfortunately the
23:18
Speaker 1: perfect She sees it at the at the right time
23:21
Speaker 1: and the wrong time, and she gets sucked into I
23:23
Speaker 1: think the right Nancy. There's part of her that does
23:26
Speaker 1: want Margot's lifestyle. I don't know that she so much
23:29
Speaker 1: wants to be with Margo sexually as she wants to
23:32
Speaker 1: be Margo. I'm not quite sure about that. But another
23:37
Speaker 1: the way you describe her logging on and looking but
23:41
Speaker 1: she wouldn't outright like like the photo because she didn't
23:47
Speaker 1: want to be too forward, and she was overwhelmed when
23:50
Speaker 1: she saw Margot had like what almost four thousand quote friends?
23:53
Speaker 1: Was that the right? Thirty seven hundred something friends? And
23:56
Speaker 1: I like the way that you describe how she waits
24:01
Speaker 1: before she will respond to a text or a Facebook
24:05
Speaker 1: message or a posting because she doesn't want to look
24:09
Speaker 1: too forward or too excited. But yet she's staring at
24:13
Speaker 1: her phone waiting for it to ping. Yeah, I think
24:17
Speaker 1: that's so like we all think that we're out of
24:19
Speaker 1: high school, but we're really not. When it comes to relationships.
24:23
Speaker 1: Sometimes we can really fall back into that, you know,
24:26
Speaker 1: schoolgirl mode. Or maybe it's just me, but I think
24:30
Speaker 1: other people do too. You know, when I really did
24:33
Speaker 1: a reality check on this, Sophie seems, you know, kind
24:36
Speaker 1: of normal, and she had this great job in Chicago.
24:40
Speaker 1: She moves with her husband and son to Mapleton, Texas
24:45
Speaker 1: and to get away from it all. But when she's
24:50
Speaker 1: been pouring over Facebook, she's been staring at this woman.
24:53
Speaker 1: But when she follows I think it was a maid
24:59
Speaker 1: through into a gated community into the area where Margot lives.
25:07
Speaker 1: She sneaks into the neighborhood to spy all this woman
25:12
Speaker 1: she really doesn't know, to find out what day the
25:15
Speaker 1: maid comes. That's freaky. May please tell me you haven't
25:19
Speaker 1: done that. No, of course not, but that is it
25:26
Speaker 1: is a little stalkery, I'll say. But no, May does
25:30
Speaker 1: not behave like that Sophie as I might be a
25:34
Speaker 1: tiny shade of Sophie, but she's a ten and I
25:36
Speaker 1: might be a one. I'm very yeah, I advise you
25:39
Speaker 1: to say nothing more at this point. Okay, as your lawyer, Okay, good.
25:44
Speaker 1: You know a lot of people are riding in and
25:47
Speaker 1: they want to know that did you start from the
25:50
Speaker 1: beginning at the outset to make these characters so nasty,
25:56
Speaker 1: and each one of them, each one of these women.
25:59
Speaker 1: Let's see, I write a little note Sophie, Margot, Callie, Jill.
26:08
Speaker 1: I think I'm leaving out one of them. Yes, Aaron,
26:11
Speaker 1: her real friend, Aaron. Did you just start the book
26:17
Speaker 1: and then the characters you start developing their personality, then
26:20
Speaker 1: you just let the personality go to its natural conclusion
26:24
Speaker 1: or did you know at the beginning what was going
26:27
Speaker 1: to happen at the end. I had no idea. I
26:30
Speaker 1: write very much without an outline, and I try to
26:33
Speaker 1: write as organically as possible. It's just my process. I
26:37
Speaker 1: didn't even know. When you say you write organically, you
26:40
Speaker 1: may just let it rip. I let it rip. Yeah,
26:44
Speaker 1: Like I had the original setup, but I did not
26:47
Speaker 1: know who the women were, and I, you know, like
26:50
Speaker 1: I didn't know who the killer was still halfway through.
26:52
Speaker 1: I just knew that there was a secret click of
26:55
Speaker 1: these hunting wise and that they were rich and probably
26:59
Speaker 1: pretty wicked. But I really, I really met the characters
27:02
Speaker 1: as I was writing them. Like there's an early scene
27:05
Speaker 1: where they're at that lavish garden party and Sophie's the
27:10
Speaker 1: one at Margot's house. Yes, and she's that was some
27:14
Speaker 1: party I know, right, and she kind of meets them
27:17
Speaker 1: for the first time, and it was it was really
27:20
Speaker 1: the first time I met them too. So I just
27:22
Speaker 1: was letting them kind of show up, see how catty
27:25
Speaker 1: they could be, what they were going to say. And
27:27
Speaker 1: that's sort of that is how my process is. I
27:29
Speaker 1: have to let the characters lead me. I wish I
27:32
Speaker 1: could do more upfront, but that's just the way I work.
27:36
Speaker 1: I have to really go find it. Well. If you
27:38
Speaker 1: did it, then the characters wouldn't be true to themselves
27:41
Speaker 1: if you didn't let them quote do what comes natural. Um.
27:44
Speaker 1: You know. Another thing is booze. There is a lot
27:48
Speaker 1: of drinking in this. I think there may be a
27:50
Speaker 1: roofie or two. But did you notice, um, I always
27:54
Speaker 1: think this is interesting to doctor Angela Arnold should take
27:58
Speaker 1: a drink. Let's just say, I think a couple of
28:01
Speaker 1: times of bourbon that was always given to her at
28:04
Speaker 1: one of these get togethers. And you know, it takes
28:07
Speaker 1: wicked when you first get it into your mouth, and
28:11
Speaker 1: but yet she'd just keep drinking it and as often
28:15
Speaker 1: she should describe it as then it tasted like velvet
28:18
Speaker 1: going there? Does it? Does it only tastes wicked the
28:21
Speaker 1: first little sip you take. You know, to me, if
28:27
Speaker 1: something smells like paint remover, I just naturally don't want
28:31
Speaker 1: to drink it. But that's just me. I guess you
28:34
Speaker 1: ladies have a different set of taste buzz And I'll
28:37
Speaker 1: just leave it at that. So, Karen Smith, I want
28:40
Speaker 1: to go back to analyzing a crime scene outdoors versus indoors.
28:46
Speaker 1: But you said something that you thought was pretty interesting
28:50
Speaker 1: that the bad players in the Hunting Wives are the women. Yeah,
28:56
Speaker 1: and you know I have to go back. I was
28:58
Speaker 1: chomping at the bit to jump in earlier. What really
29:01
Speaker 1: captured my attention was this lust versus love with Margo. Yeah,
29:07
Speaker 1: Sophie can be in love with her husband, but she
29:09
Speaker 1: may be in lust with Margo. And you know, there
29:12
Speaker 1: was a line that I just used on my last
29:13
Speaker 1: episode of my podcast, and I'm going to talk it
29:15
Speaker 1: out there because it fits so well with this. When
29:18
Speaker 1: you have a so called perfect life and you get bored,
29:24
Speaker 1: sometimes it's really easy to take a less turn at
29:27
Speaker 1: that primrose path. And if you go back to the
29:30
Speaker 1: motivations that you know, Nancy and I worked, how many
29:33
Speaker 1: murders and how many scenes? Sex? Power, and money. They're
29:38
Speaker 1: the trifecta of motivations. You can take any motivation on
29:41
Speaker 1: the planet, you can just spill it down into one
29:44
Speaker 1: of those three things or a combination of them. And
29:47
Speaker 1: that's why people do what they do. And that's what
29:50
Speaker 1: makes this so compelling, is this group of women who
29:53
Speaker 1: are so evil to do these things, not only to
29:56
Speaker 1: other people, but to each other. It's fascinating. Their a coven.
30:02
Speaker 1: You know, may you're making me really suspicious about who
30:06
Speaker 1: these characters are modeled after. But you know, even Mayberry
30:11
Speaker 1: and Andy of Mayberry had high society. Okay, so you're
30:15
Speaker 1: going to have a high society no matter where you go.
30:19
Speaker 1: So what was it about Sophie's background that made her
30:26
Speaker 1: want to be part of that so much? Whenever I
30:31
Speaker 1: have ever been at let me just say fancy shinned Diggs,
30:35
Speaker 1: all I can think about is getting out of the
30:40
Speaker 1: dress and out of the makeup and getting home to
30:43
Speaker 1: my twins. She has a completely different take on things.
30:48
Speaker 1: Why does she want it so badly? May? I think?
30:53
Speaker 1: I do think that there is the part of her that,
30:56
Speaker 1: because of her childhood and stuff that she probably never
31:00
Speaker 1: had like a stable set of circle of friends, so
31:03
Speaker 1: she had Aaron, but other than that, she didn't have
31:06
Speaker 1: her group because she was moved around too much. So
31:09
Speaker 1: I think now she's she's going to be a part
31:11
Speaker 1: of this group, and this group is exciting, and it's
31:14
Speaker 1: really the most sort of as as a new mom,
31:18
Speaker 1: like alive, she's felt in a long time. And then
31:22
Speaker 1: there is you know that that left at the Primrose
31:25
Speaker 1: Path must component where she It's just a compulsion. She
31:29
Speaker 1: can't even stop herself, like she she is just so
31:34
Speaker 1: drawn to Margot and she just wants to be part
31:39
Speaker 1: of that whole world and there is nothing else like
31:43
Speaker 1: that going on in Mapleton. And it might be fun
31:47
Speaker 1: to have a beer with her friend Aaron, but it's
31:50
Speaker 1: also just kind of gooring to her, so she really does.
31:54
Speaker 1: She's just totally swept up in their world of debauchery.
32:00
Speaker 1: You know, that's really interesting, May And I thought about
32:03
Speaker 1: it a lot. I guess all the years that I
32:08
Speaker 1: prosecuted and was really living off adrenaline for years and
32:15
Speaker 1: years and years, to me, nothing is more wonderful than
32:20
Speaker 1: being at home with my family. So I guess it's
32:23
Speaker 1: what you've been through that leads you to where you
32:27
Speaker 1: are right now. And I'm thinking about these women, specifically
32:32
Speaker 1: Margot and the other women in her group, how they
32:37
Speaker 1: seemingly think that all that wealth and all that glamour,
32:44
Speaker 1: the beautiful clothes, the beautiful home, as you said, garden
32:48
Speaker 1: parties the way you describe it, these rolling grounds with
32:55
Speaker 1: magnolia trees and perfectly manicured lawns, and the guy eye
33:00
Speaker 1: out back parked with the car shucking oysters. I think
33:04
Speaker 1: it was so everybody could have fresh oysters, the booze
33:08
Speaker 1: flowing and the food everywhere. That was some party. I
33:15
Speaker 1: get the sense that they think, these women that they're untouchable.
33:23
Speaker 1: Are they arrogant or do they think they're their wealth
33:27
Speaker 1: protects them. Yes, I do think that that's I think
33:31
Speaker 1: that's exactly it. They really do feel like they're untouchable,
33:36
Speaker 1: above the law. They're insulated by their wealth. They've always
33:40
Speaker 1: been able to do whatever in the world they want
33:43
Speaker 1: to do. And it's just a very It is that
33:48
Speaker 1: sort of sex, murder, money, you know, power intoxicating thing
33:55
Speaker 1: that they've got going on. Man. And when you say sex, well,
33:59
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm going to spoil a plot, but I
34:02
Speaker 1: will call it something entirely different. You call it sex
34:05
Speaker 1: all you want to. But um, okay, if I say anymore,
34:08
Speaker 1: I'm going to ruin the plot. So I'm just gonna
34:10
Speaker 1: stop myself. Listen to this, Okay, Hunting The Hunting Wives
34:15
Speaker 1: is just like Texas, big, bold, and hot. This spicy
34:19
Speaker 1: novel is filled with unpredictable twists and unforgettable characters, impossible
34:23
Speaker 1: to put down. That is from Samantha downing at you
34:28
Speaker 1: speaking to USA Today, sultry, salacious, unpredictable. Well that's right,
34:34
Speaker 1: it is unpredictable. It's very unpredictable. The Hunting Wives the
34:39
Speaker 1: kind of but your mother warned you about. You will
34:43
Speaker 1: devour it. That's by Riley Segar in New York Times
34:46
Speaker 1: bestseller of Home Before Dark. So I've got a question.
34:52
Speaker 1: I'm not going to ask specifics make up, but is
34:55
Speaker 1: there any way that we're going to see a s
35:00
Speaker 1: equal arising from any one of these characters? You know,
35:07
Speaker 1: I want you to write a say okay, I will
35:10
Speaker 1: then that sounds great. No, I've actually been kicking the
35:13
Speaker 1: idea around some I My next thriller is another standalone,
35:17
Speaker 1: but it too is set in a small town in
35:20
Speaker 1: East Texas and it's about three women that are lifelong friends.
35:24
Speaker 1: But I have thought, you know, gosh, it might be
35:27
Speaker 1: interesting to do some flashbacks to like Margo and Callie's
35:31
Speaker 1: boarding school days or what happens next, And man, what
35:36
Speaker 1: a dream it would be to have like a TV
35:38
Speaker 1: series where they really did explore and keep this going.
35:43
Speaker 1: So yeah, maybe it's equal. Do you ever wake up
35:47
Speaker 1: at night thinking about Margot? Because I've thought about her
35:50
Speaker 1: a lot, and she's a fictional character that's so nice
35:54
Speaker 1: to hear. I don't anymore, but definitely during the writing
35:58
Speaker 1: of it, absolutely Lee and for a while after. But
36:03
Speaker 1: I wrote us three summers ago, so it's been a while.
36:05
Speaker 1: So now that I'm in the middle of the other books,
36:08
Speaker 1: those characters are in my brain. But to me, I
36:13
Speaker 1: know Sophie's the main character. But Margot, she's gorgeous, beautiful, sensual,
36:22
Speaker 1: sexy and pure evil. Pure evil. It's like the devil.
36:30
Speaker 1: He doesn't always look like a demon. Sometimes he shows
36:33
Speaker 1: up in a tuxedo, looking like a movie Nancy. You
36:39
Speaker 1: have asked, how can someone be pulled into this? And
36:42
Speaker 1: look how you look, how you've been pulled into the air.
36:45
Speaker 1: I have been I gotta tell you, guys, we are
36:48
Speaker 1: talking to this incredible writer May Cobb, and she really
36:57
Speaker 1: pulls out the stops in The Hunting Wives. May I
37:02
Speaker 1: wish you the very best and I can't wait to
37:07
Speaker 1: read the sequel. Now there, I didn't give it away,
37:10
Speaker 1: did I? No, No, you didn't at all, Nancy. Thank
37:14
Speaker 1: you so much for having me on this with such
37:16
Speaker 1: a blast. And I'm telling you and we can all
37:19
Speaker 1: get this on Amazon right, That's where I get everything, right,
37:24
Speaker 1: can't we? Oh? Yes, yes, it's on Amazon. Absolutely wow,
37:29
Speaker 1: may Cup The Hunting Wives also with me, Doctor Angela
37:33
Speaker 1: Arnold and Karen Smith. Ladies till we meet again. Thank you,