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SoWhoCaresAnyway E11 The Natural Health Service · SoWhoCaresAnyway

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Hello and welcome to So Who Cares Anyway, the podcast that shares learning, innovation and ideas from the world of health and social care and beyond.
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My name is Ruth Germain and I'm inviting you to join me each week with my inspirational guests to hear about who cares.
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What they do, their passions, their knowledge and ideas, and importantly, the difference they are making to improve the health and wellbeing of people in our communities.
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I consider each of my guests to be incredible individuals working with people in new ways or with key messages to share.
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People from healthcare, social care, the voluntary sector, community groups, and more.
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To join me each week to find out, so who cares.
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Anyway, to find out more about me, who I am and what I do, please head over to my website, www.reflectiveruthconsultancy.com,
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where you can also catch up with previous episodes and read my blogs.
Welcome to the next episode of So Who Cares Anyway.
Today I'm delighted to be joined by James Metcalfe.
This is a slightly different podcast as James runs the North Yorkshire Mores Trust which is about getting people out, into nature and to open spaces to improve their physical and mental health.
So I'm going to pass over to James so he can introduce himself a bit more.
Thanks Ruth.
I'm James Metcalf.
And for the last two years I've been the executive director of the North York Moors National Park Trust.
And our main focus is around lifting the health of people and nature.
The projects are all geared around how we do that, in tandem.
I've been there for two years.
Prior to that, I was an advisor in, Westminster for a few years and worked for various different MPs doing various different jobs.
But I've come back home, after spending some time in London, come back up to Teesside and the North York Moors, and doing the mission that I went to London to do in a different way here.
So I was gonna ask you about that, that mission in London.,
because it's quite interesting when I met you, do you want to just, talk about that a little bit more and explain, because you've got quite a passion and drive behind what you do.
And obviously you were doing it in a very different way in Westminster than you are here, but it's the same drive and passion that you were talking about, so, I've always been fairly political, from a young age and a passion, and belief particularly around poverty and social mobility and, health.
And, we've got so many problems, particularly at the moment, issues around those and, having grown up on Teesside where, it's, historically high deprivation, and if you look at life outcomes, it's, much poorer compared to, other parts of the country.
And it's just a driving me that, we need to help people more.
Both in terms of the short term and giving them particularly young people the best start in life to thrive.
Going into adulthood.
I've seen so many people who just didn't have those opportunities.
I feel lucky that I did.
But it's just a burning desire in me really is, helping children and young people to set them up to grow up well and then thrive into adulthood.
And I was in London, as an advisor and working for different MPs and that passion took me there.
And I think.
post uni and slightly naive, you go and you think, Oh, I'm going to change the world and I'm going to do this, that and the other.
And you meet some amazing people, you get involved in some amazing projects and pieces of work and some of it does change, policy and different things, but, it didn't quite scratch the itch for me really.
And, now that I've come back up home and I'm running the charity and I'm actually much more on the ground and working with people and with the people that were actually helping and seeing the change in them, for me is much more rewarding.
And that's what I wanted.
It's those faces and those people that you meet along the way and the change that you see in them.
I feel like I'm actually seeing the benefit of it because I get to spend time with the people or in the landscape that we're working to change and help improve.
And that's just sounds so nice, hearing about your drive and that passion.
And you've talked about working with young people, helping them into adulthood.
That's so important.
What I'm thinking at the moment would be really nice to hear a little bit more about the charity, how was it set up, how was it founded, and then a bit about its mission, please.
So the North York Movers Trust, it's coming up 10 years old this, October, and it was set up, it was set up by the National Park itself, as a way to, try and tap into more charitable funds to, deliver more in the national parks, so around conservation, around heritage, around access.
And then, two years ago I came in, and, I said at the time that, when it comes to conservation and heritage and, restoring nature, the national park does a wonderful job of doing that already.
And I said at the time, we've got such a high level of deprivation around the National Park.
So many barriers facing people to getting to the National Park and enjoying it.
That we should be doing much more that complements the work of the National Park.
So they're, preserving and enhancing this landscape.
We should be getting more people out into nature, to enjoy it.
But also, the benefits for their.
Mental and physical health, and focusing, on the determinants of poorer health outcomes in places like Scarborough and Teesside that surround the National Park, the National Park and nature as a whole it's a health asset and we should be using it.
Much more.
So the last couple of years we've really focused on how we as a charity can either work with others or deliver our own work that firstly supports people, particularly young people, to get into the National Park and access it.
But then when they're there Supporting them in a way that is building up their knowledge and their skills and their confidence in the outdoors.
Doing so in a way that's interesting to them.
And then, through those programs, tailoring the work in a way that will then benefit them.
Benefit their health, well being, confidence for younger children, their development, their skills.
To support them to thrive, into, adolescence and adulthood.
So that's what we've been doing for the last couple of years.
Our main mission really is to lift the health of people and nature and do that together in the projects that we deliver.
That's amazing.
We talk about what are our community assets and seeing that, but one of the things that you spoke about there was about the barriers.
So I wonder if you'd talk about what some of those barriers are to people actually accessing that in the first place.
This is based on the last couple of years, the projects, I think the biggest barrier is confidence.
People are slightly more disconnected or don't have a connection at all with nature in their national parks.
So I think they're more reluctant to go, or when they do go, more reluctant to fully embrace and enjoy all that it has to offer so I think that's a huge barrier that we've seen.
Um, I think transport is a huge issue, which we all know about.
The rurality of the National Park itself, but then getting and linking that up with the more urban areas, there's definitely a transport.
issue and that ties into cost, if you're not able to access public transport because there isn't necessarily the means to do so.
Not everyone has a car, not everyone has the economic means to have a car and if you do, then, fuel's expensive.
So I think, particularly at the moment with the cost of living crisis still very much impacting people's budgets, there's economic.
social and those confidence barriers that are in the way, for people.
And then another one, which, really, It's something that I really want to challenge and we do in our projects is, I think when people do come, they've maybe not always had a positive experience, or they've maybe felt, that they haven't got the right shoes, or they haven't got the right waterproofs, and therefore they feel less than, or that they don't belong in that landscape when they see other people.
who do and it shouldn't be about that but I can understand why people might feel like that.
So, our projects we try and provide waterproofs and probably, different types of footwear, walking boots and things for people.
Overcoming lots of different barriers that are, economic, social, and others that are all interwoven into each other, there's, so many significant barriers, particularly that we find, for those more harder to reach communities that really would benefit from the National Park, but just can't because It isn't just one barrier, it's multiple, and they multiply each other.
They're all interrelated really, aren't they? What you're saying, having that economic bit, it's about not being able to afford the boots.
If you can't afford the boots, you get there, and it's true, when you go to these places, everybody's there, they're nice walking boots, there's all the countryside, you've got your coat and everything else, you've got your backpack on, and if you're not Like that then you probably don't feel like you fit in in those ways that comes back to that confidence bit So you haven't got the confidence and then it becomes that vicious circle So there seems to be quite a few of those that are going on in there That's just describing one of them I suppose definitely and just to take away from one of our projects which I'll come to and in a little bit we're doing some Guided walks and one I remember vividly, it was probably one of the first walks I did with this group and It was a fairly youngish guy, probably late 20s, early 30s, came, had spent a bit of time in the National Park, but I remember him saying I wouldn't have walked past, Captain Cook's Monument, and it was about a tenth of the way around our actual walk, and he said, I just wouldn't have walked beyond that, because I just wouldn't have had the confidence to do so, and he was thanking me, saying, I've really enjoyed it, and having you here has helped broaden that book, giving me the confidence to think how I can go beyond that.
And then was talking about taking his son back and saying he would enjoy that walk.
So I do say confidence is like one of the biggest.
Things for people when it comes to accessing nature in the National Park, That's a really nice story So do you want to use that as a way to tell us about that project? Because I think that was the first one I saw on LinkedIn and contacted you about, if I remember correctly.
Yeah, one of my favourites as well trust Tracks, which, was the first project that.
I started when I came into the charity, and it was based on that sort of We just need to do things, there's an issue here, there's an issue around mental health in particular, but physical health.
And, we need to just get in and we'll find the funding somehow.
So I think my trustees they trust me implicitly.
So, it went off and it started as a voluntary thing, but then we got the funding to do it longer term, which was brilliant.
So Trusttreks, it's a program of guided walks and activities in nature, connecting with nature and the national park, and to unlock sensory pathways for people, to give them an opportunity to slow down, to notice nature, to gain from all of those benefits that we now know about of the importance of nature for our health, well being.
But then also to get people physically active as well and doing that in a natural environment, I think it's really important, providing or giving them that inspiration to then keep that up, independently and removing some of the barriers that we've just talked about there.
Through the walk, so we did provide, the offer for walking boots and waterproofs and different things to hopefully enable people to carry on, beyond that.
It was a six month program, so it's a monthly walk that we did last Saturday of every month, keeping it very structured, so people, have something to focus towards and doing it on a weekend.
So it's more accessible to a wider range of people.
Working and childcare commitments and different things.
So for the first year, we worked with a group of men who were attending Andy's Man Club, which is a national charity, so we working with the group in Middlesbrough, and we focused on the men's group.
Because, if you look at, statistics around mental health, particularly suicide, the, men feature highly in that, suicide's the biggest killer of men under 50.
And, the Northeast is the second highest, suicide rate for men in England, and mental health, featuring in mental health stats.
And then particularly, when you look at, The northeast, Teesside, then features highly again, for a variety of reasons, so that's why we focused on that group, and they were very keen to get involved, and had I think, some sceptical guys who came out to start with, who were thinking, I'm going to give it a go, but I'm not really sure, that this sort of nature malarkey is going to be for me, and, they meet me, and I'm there in all the gear and they're like, Oh my God, who's this guy? And what we're going to be doing? But I think they really picked it up from the right from the beginning.
I said, this is a fairly laid back, informal thing that we're doing.
I'm going to be giving you prompts, I'm going to be guiding you, and we're going to be doing some lovely walks, and I'll give you some things to focus on, and I'll pick things out in the landscape, and give you little bits of interesting knowledge, and give you other ways, so using apps to help you bridge some of those knowledge gaps yourself, and keep that sustainable into more daily, interactions with nature, and just in daily life, between the sessions, so yeah, they really Got into it.
These guys who probably didn't think this was for them and I think that the most important thing to take away from that is People are nature and people are hard wired to respond positively to nature.
It's in our DNA and, I think one of the, one of the nicest facts that I would tell, that group when we first started and I tell people whenever I meet them, is, around birdsong and birdsong is, proven to improve your well being and the reason for that is it's a hard wired response.
If a bird is singing, there's less likely to be predator around and therefore humans are naturally calmer, in that environment, listening to bird song.
That's fascinating.
It is, and when somebody told me, I was blown away by that.
And it's true, it's, and you can see, you'll now apply that and hopefully you're listening as well and think, take a bit of time to listen to Birdsong.
And, even if you do that in a day, that's a really great thing for you.
If you just took a couple of minutes every day on a morning or an evening, particularly this time of year going into summer.
It's a wonderful thing.
It's just very uplifting and there's a scientific reason behind that as well.
So that's a flavor of the sort of guidance that I was giving them and information and then really just having a bit of a laugh I think for some of them.
They've been going to Andy's Man Club for, for varying different reasons and timeframes and they were all coming at it very differently, but I think they just enjoyed that time.
As much in nature and with nature, I think they really got into that, but just the time together in nature, thinking about isolation, loneliness, I definitely think that is a huge problem that we face in the country as a whole, detrimental to health.
And I think for the guys, yes, the nature element was great, but I think they loved coming because they were really bonding together and doing that.
I think nature helps facilitate those bonds in a different way, especially when you're coming at it from a fairly new perspective, you're overcoming challenges.
For some of them, the walk was the challenge.,
they just weren't as active.
So that was, spurring each other on.
For some of them, it was the getting into nature and those kinds of activities.
Slightly different, but doing it together, I think, eased.
The mall, Calm for Mall, and I think nature can be a great facilitator for that.
So it was a dual thing in our project.
That nature helped them, but then helped facilitate.
Bonds between each other that helped them even more.
I'll leave it there.
I could go on all day about this project, Ruth.
It's fine.
I could listen all day actually because it sounds fascinating and I'm sitting here and I love being out in nature listening to bird songs, got Apps, so I can listen to them, identify them, which is probably the sort of things you could use.
Hearing all of that, I just think, wow, I'd like to come out on a walk with you, because I'm sure you'd probably be able to tell me all sorts of things extra that I didn't know.
And that in itself is fascinating.
One of the things that you, spoke about as well there was about that you do activities.
So, I'm going to draw you back.
You spoke about the fact that you do walks and activities.
Are the activities physical, or is that the sort of thing like listening to the Bears song or doing that, or is there something else to it that you do? So it's all around the senses, and those unlock pathways, particularly for your mental health.
So, we focus on sound, listening to birdsong, touch, sight and touch.
So it's proven that if you're looking at different natural Patterns, geometric patterns that you see in nature and taking time to look and appreciate them as proven to, be beneficial to your health and well being, reducing stress and anxiety, promoting calm.
So, interacting with those, touching those different elements and thinking about, how they've got here or what their purpose is in the landscape.
Even if it's looking at a moss, and then, different colors in the landscape, so I often ask them, tell me how many, shades of green can you see, and pointing out, so getting them to focus their minds I think you can walk through a landscape and miss quite a lot if you're not focusing your mind on different things, so trying to ask questions in a way that would give them that opportunity then, the kind of science behind that, colors like blues and greens are calming for us, really focusing your eyes on those different colors, good for you, but then around, smell, so I love this time of year when I did the walk because all of the garlic's coming out, so touching different leaves, getting the smells, a little bit of foraging, it's a good place in the national park for like bilberries in the summer.
See blackberries and brambles.,
just doing various different ways of trying to unlock them senses.
And there's a whole science around the whole, varying bits of that and, and how it unlocks different hormonal responses in you, that's going to then support or improve their, their health.
So those are the types of activities, doing a bit of photography again to think if you've only got one shot to take in a landscape.
But we're out here for a couple of hours, finding the one shot, you've only got one chance to do it, so think about what you want to take, and then at the beginning of the walk I'll always say, at the end of the walk I want you to tell me one thing from the walk, could be anything.
That has reminded you of a memory, or something positive from the past.
Because again, you're unlocking memories, you have to be slightly careful with that, but, people generally, on the whole, have positive memories of spending time in nature, particularly in childhood.
So people would pick up different acorns, or they would say just I remember one guy saying, just listening to the sheep just takes me back about 40 years and being out with my mum and dad, having moved up from London, moved up north, or being on holiday and listening, hearing sheep for the first time, which was a nice one.
And then getting to know them a bit more and you can then interact and bring other elements in and talk about different experiences or commonalities So yeah, I would say there's a science behind it, which there is But it's also just like a bit of common sense as well and just trying to aid conversation, aid interaction with nature and each other and get them talking, get them thinking about different things and doing things that they would just normally walk past, but getting the chance to just focus on it, rather than, as the modern world wants us to do, is just head down and march on, and actually it's just, we need time and space to think about things.
So I think that's the beauty of those activities.
Yeah, and they sound beautiful to be fair.
They sound amazing.
I think you've probably changed my walks already I'm thinking oh, I'm gonna do that next time.
Because it is about taking that time to stop and look and think and listen which as children you often do naturally But as you say As you're adults, you start to hone in.
So you shared already about, you had one guy that came along and he said he was planning to bring his son along.
And giving that confidence to do more.
But I wonder if you've got anything else that you can share about the outcomes and the differences about what this project has done for people.
yeah, that story that I mentioned there, that confidence building and then the impact, of then, wanting to take his son and like seeing that as a viable thing following the walk was great, but then other outcomes, looking at the evaluation.
Actually just taking time, so we obviously do them every month, but saying, between the walks in that month, I've been spending more time in nature, so just getting out and either repeating the walks or doing them, maybe to a shorter degree, but with family and friends, talking about nature more with family and friends, and sharing some of them, touch points, knowledge points that I've shared with them and passing them on.
One guy was talking about, How, he's had made up his mind that he wanted to reduce or taper off his antidepressant medication, but, we really wanted nature, having taken part in the project, really wanted nature to be part of that sort of plan to reduce, taper off the medication, come off it altogether.
And I'm still in touch with one or two who came on the walks on a fairly regular basis and, once joined the gym, and when I first met him, he was fairly inactive, from what he told me, had just retired.
And had in the past, been a runner and done lots of things but wasn't doing it at the moment and, now he's got a gym membership, going to the gym like two, three times a week, has been off alcohol for, probably it'd be about 65 days now, since the new year, completely different person, doing yoga, yeah.
Saying that he was spending, more time, reconnecting with all friends.
That's a brilliant outcome.
That I wouldn't put it all down to that project, but it certainly inspired him.
Giving him, the confidence, And that motivation to pick himself up from probably where he was at that moment in time to where he is now.
So, he inspires me, great guy, so that's the kind of, outcomes, and then using the apps, so Merling app for birdsong and identifying birds, Google Lens, if you're unsure of something, it'll bring up Pretty much guarantee it'll be the correct thing, it'll show you, what type of fungi it is, or what type of wildflower it is, using that, in everyday interactions, so it's deepening their connection with nature and allowing them to do it in a way that's interesting to them, that bridges that knowledge gap, they can then pass it on to others, so they're getting connected with nature and in time that snowballs and the impact reverberates to family, friends, community, hopefully, which I think is beautiful.
Like the butterfly, isn't it? The analogy they took about, the effect ripple on of flies and wings go and the effects ripple on further.
Absolutely.
So you're rippling out into that community and what you're talking there is you talk about that one gentleman, but I'm sure it's many others about giving motivation, giving confidence, improvement in mental health, and so many other things.
So I don't know whether or not you listen to the podcast I've done with Mark Spencer, who's a GP in Fleetwood, but he was talking about the fact that, there was lots of Things like you were talking about the beginning deprivation within the community and actually, you know They couldn't always solve those in general practice and a lot of the things that they were doing Was that they went out and change because they set up groups for people doing different things So not particularly I think they do walks, but not particularly nature walks But sort of various things singing other activities, but it seems to be those activities that spur people on more to change their lifestyle.
And he talked about people cutting down their alcohol and increasing their exercise.
And he was talking the same sort of thing about somebody who, rather than saying to them when they come to a consultation, Oh, you need to do more exercise, you need to eat better, you need to lose weight.
He now just says, Do you want to join a group? What do you want to do? And actually, when they have that, and they have that meaning and purpose in their life, which is what you're giving these people, then those other things start to sort themselves out.
And I know as a nurse, there's this thing that talks about, every contact counts, and it still talks about now, and I'm not saying it's wrong, but, everybody who comes in, there's a contact, and while they're there, smoking, drinking, all these health advice things that you should do or talk about depending on the presentation obviously, but actually sometimes you're not actually giving people a tool to do anything, you're almost telling people what they know already and actually to do that and give them a tool so there's much more around social prescribing and doing that but I think there's, it's really nice when you hear stories like yours that are true, real, tangible and making a massive difference.
I was just going to say, I think when it comes to these types of activity services I really genuinely believe that the quality of the interaction is, Better than, the quantity of the amount of people that you're getting out.
It's about really changing their whole, take and view on where they are in their life at that moment.
And, we didn't have huge quantities of numbers of guys coming out, but the ones who did really got a quality interaction with nature, and a quality, interaction with myself, and I think there was something to be said for that.
I wouldn't say nature works for everyone.
The one thing I would say to that though, is I think doing, even though you might have different interests and differing interests, I think if you did that in nature, you would.
Get additional benefits.
So I'm just thinking like knitting, crocheting people love to do that.
It's a growing thing Doing that in nature so you can do something that's interesting to you, but in a more natural environment and inevitably, you know Just listening to the birdsong while you're doing that or seeing the sun, come through if you're in a woodland or a forest, or moving across a landscape, that's going to benefit you.
There's dual benefits.
So I think what I would always say is don't be wedded to just be like, we need to get people focused and connected with nature through those activities, actually finding things that are interesting to them.
But doing it in a natural environment can be just as beneficial.
So I'd love to see people giving that greater consideration.
Yeah, getting inside.
I can't knit so I'm not gonna set this up.
But now I've got this in my head.
Knitting in nature.
It just sounds good, doesn't it? Oh, absolutely.
That sounds good.
That might be a new project actually there.
Yeah, yeah, it might be but don't get me doing it because goodness knows what you'd end up with so just thinking if you talked as well earlier on about there's lots of projects that you do and that you talk about that.
Nurturing people through from childhood to teens.
So I wonder if you just want to give a brief outline or maybe a story about, to give an outline of one of the projects that you do with younger people.
So I'm going to give you two if you don't mind.
I don't mind at all.
That's all right.
But just, it got to go back to your point that you made a little while ago about, when we were younger,, we got that chance to play and investigate, and that was a part of childhood, you went, and I certainly did, you'd go out all day and you'd come back for your tea later on, and you'd have been crampling around, some scrub somewhere, making dens or doing whatever, and that, sounds all idyllic now, but that was childhood.
But I don't think that, just not the case anymore.
Kids don't get, I'm not saying all, but some do, but lots of kids don't, that isn't a thing now.
When you think about crime and security, people parents are more worried about their kids going out and being alone, even with their friends.
Going out I, I would have, or yourself, Ruth, probably,, or your listeners.
And that's reducing play, has then moved indoors, and it's much more sedentary, gaming, iPads, again, not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but just the, we've reduced kids to a much more indoor, sedentary.
Lifestyle, and they don't get those formative things that you need as a child because it's helping your development, helping you find who you are, resilience, confidence.
So I think that's probably one of the reasons why we're seeing lots of different things.
issues and challenges now in this generation or the last couple of generations and certainly the ones coming through, which is really sad.
And I think part of that is around play, and not having a reduction in those opportunities.
So that's a real big motivator for me Restoring childhood to how it would have been, and it sounds idyllic, but being realistic about all of the challenges communities and families face now.
And why there's reasons, barriers in the way of playing and being outdoors.
But trying to give them that opportunity to do that because I think it's a vital part of them.
Growing up, growing up well with nature in nature and thriving.
We've got, one project called Stepping Stones to Nature, which is, I think we're all biased.
We all have projects that we love the most, and this is certainly my, would it be a pet project? Maybe? But yeah, certainly something I love.
And I've loved, developing the theory behind it, getting the funding for it, and then actually going to see it being delivered.
So it's taking.
the traditional visits that schools would take kids out to the national park for maybe one or two days in a year, if you were lucky.
And for lots of the kids, particularly now, because they're disconnected from nature, it's not the same experience.
So they're not getting the same benefits from it because it's a sensory overload, for lots of them and it's so different to what they're used to.
And therefore there's disruption, so they get told off, and then it's a negative experience, so they don't want to go back to that place, they don't want to go back to the National Park, so they're trying to, get out of that, mindset we bring them, it's a good thing.
Yes, it is a good thing, but if they aren't able to play and investigate and enjoy that landscape and self guide themselves to a degree, then they're not getting all of the benefits from that landscape.
So, flipping that right on its head and say, I'm going to take nature in the National Park into Schools, and we're going to do that in our most deprived communities surrounding the National Park, so that is on Teesside.
Focusing on places like Grangetown in Redcaron, Cleveland.
Which is, when you look at the index of multiple deprivation from a few years ago, it's in the bottom 50 places.
For, deprivation, so really focusing on a place where we think the benefits would be felt most and greatest and where they just don't have them opportunities to access nature because of safety and crime or economic costs, the confidence and yeah, just not having that connection at all, really.
So taking nature into.
The classroom What does that look like? So basically taking the assumption that none of them have a connection with nature, and some of them might have or varying degrees but basically taking them on a journey of building their nature domain knowledge up starting from tree and plant identification, but then through to, creating natural dyes Natural cordage, creating water filters up to them working and lighting and managing a fire safely and what type of materials you need for that, create, building shelter.
So it's giving them all them tactile things of that's giving them that nature experience, developing the skills, but refining, helping with their development.
So they.
Fine and gross motor skills, those hard and soft skills, but then, interacting with natural materials.
So it's trying to weave into those activities that they're getting a skill, but they're also getting the additional benefits of when I was talking before about interacting, using your senses and how that unlocks different pathways to promote well being and health.
Confidence, communication, relationships, all of the things that we're struggling with, schools are struggling with at the moment with this sort of the younger generation.
So trying to promote that and support that and improve that if we can.,
supporting with their development.
And, if you look at like the COVID, lots of talk around like that COVID generation, they missed out on so a lot more.
And there's a lot of challenges around.
Children not turning up to school prepared in the same way as they would have a couple of generations ago around speech, social skills, confidence, like a whole range of issues, so trying to unpick some of them and support them, but then also linking in the curriculum.
So, David, from Sylvan Law, He was an absolutely amazing guy.
He was a teacher and now has his own outdoor, education business and he's been delivering it for us.
So he's been absolutely excellent at.
Working with the teachers.
So, yes, we're doing, we're building your skills.
Yes, you're getting all of these additional impact on life outcome, both linking it to the curriculum as well.
So, when thinking about like natural dyes and how actually that would have been a form of communication and art.
So bringing in the history element, then evaporation, talking about, science and physics and bringing that into, so you're doing the curriculum through nature, and applying it in a more, Practical way that for lots of the kids who don't necessarily work best in a classroom, they learn better from these kind of demonstrations and being much more hands on with the learning.
So that's the kind of, what they do in the schools.
They do some like mandalas and there's a bit of the creative and artistic element as well.
And then working around habitat creation, bug hotels and things in the school.
All with the view to, they're going to come out at the National Park.
But when they do, they're doing so in a way that's then going to be positive because they're going to be utilizing all of the skills that they have developed.
And be able, to a degree.
We had a, group of 30 odd kids out from one of our schools in February.
I was blown away, that when I first met that group, literally no social, no nature skills whatsoever.
And the first conversation I remember was, Oh, here's some sticky weed.
Who knows what this does? None of them could tell you that it stuck on your clothes.
They were gobsmacked.
So that's, to give you an example of the disconnection from nature to them following, six months along this project.
And like these kids.
They were now in year four, so eight years of age.
Like guiding themselves through this woodland, just telling them this is what we, this is what we want to achieve.
So one of the activities was, you have to use this bit of the woodland and you need to build a shelter that you can all get into.
In your groups, and it's, got to be fairly watertight to a degree, so go off and do it.
And they went off and did it, and they didn't need any guidance, there was no trouble, no behavioural issues.
They were focused on the task, they were working together, communicating, slight competitive element.,
so it was just absolutely amazing to see, and to see the change.
In that one class alone is amazing, and we've got a report coming out soon, but just to look at the evaluation from that group is, all the teachers saying health and well being improved.
And the kids themselves saying this, reporting this, and the parents saying health and well being definitely improved.
When the kids come in, they are calmer in the classroom.
They are more focused on the lesson after that for the rest of the day.
Behaviour is much better.
They're actually developing relationships across the classroom, so with kids they wouldn't interact with.
And with the teachers, it's changing that dynamic with the teachers and improving the relationship there.
Behaviour improved.
Communication improved.
For some of the kids who maybe, The classroom environment isn't for them, and they struggle in that environment.
All of a sudden, find themselves, at the top end of the class because they're much more suited in that environment, and that's a confidence boost for them, so there's just a vast array of things from that project that you just think, kids need this.
It should be in every school.
I know there's forest schools, but there's lots of problems with that and the sustainability of that model, dependent on a teacher to be there and run it.
We're doing it slightly different, people might say it's a forest school, but it's, we're doing it slightly different because we're focused on those sensory elements and all of the other theory behind all of that.
But I think we need much more nature interaction in schools in our curriculum and time for play, time for investigation, time for exploration.
Isn't just, oh they're out playing.
It's like really important to them, their time in the classroom because they're more focused when they're going in.
Inevitably their academic outcomes are going to be supported from that because they're much more focused.
But then the social skills, the interaction with each other, the communication improved, particularly where there's challenges around that with this generation because of COVID, because of spending much more time on tablets and isolated from friendship groups.
So there's challenges around that.
I think nature has a role to play in.
Challenging lots of them things, but then just, supporting them to grow up and thrive and into adulthood.
I think that's a really important project that I love and want desperately to get more funding for to be able to do work with a lot more schools.
But just more than anything, actually, policymakers thinking, is our education system working as it is now? And I would say not, and how else could we maybe do it better and what do we need to bring in to it? So that's one project.
Ruth, and then the other project is called Birds on the Edge.
Which part of its conservation.
So we're creating, ponds and water.
Ponds and pools and nesting habitat and feeding habitat for threatened bird species, in the North York moors.
Surrounding protected landscapes like the Hordian Hills, so turtle doves, the big sort of target species.
Their population's declined by 97 percent in the last 30 40 years, so it's, critically endangered on the red list..
for a variety of reasons, they're very particular birds, but a loss of feeding habitat for them with development and different farming practices.
But then there's varying problems or challenges they face.
So part of that project's to create the habitat that's suited to those different bird species and working with farmers, working with communities to do that.
But then the other side of that project is around getting people, particularly young people out into nature.
So we worked with a group from the Scarborough Pupil Referral Unit in 2023 and 2024.
And in 2023 they came out so they would do some basic conservation around the project, so thinking about wildflowers, maintaining or creating habitats, thinking about the challenges those, the birds face, crossed over to a degree with maybe the challenges that they've had in their life, so they're obviously out of, mainstream education, at the moment and, thinking about flight and Delta and different things.
So they, spent this time in the national park, many for the first time, and then working with creative practitioners from a company called Arcade who would get artists in to work with them, to create creative responses to the project and to their experience of the national park.
So in 2023, they created.
Some absolutely amazing and very professional music videos.
So they wrote the music, wrote the lyrics, worked with the musicians to create the soundtrack.
And then created music videos using the landscape.
In the national park or using nature as a theme, create these artistic responses to the project, which was absolutely amazing.
And then last year a different group, but working with the crew again, created skateboards.
As an artistic response to the project, and then we had an exhibition, at the National Parks Gallery in Danby, and, we had, some really big professional artists, local and national, creating artwork for this exhibition, but then the kids skateboards and bits of artwork and interpretation from the project.
It was central to that exhibition, so they were getting that experience of the National Park, of nature, of its importance to them, getting to explore themselves to a degree.
It was very self led by something that they were interested in, like the skateboards, like the music.
So that they find interest in the landscape, and see them, then to see themselves in that landscape.
And then to celebrate that, and to give them new skills, or to harness talents that they maybe didn't know that they had.
So I think that's really, really important, for them and their development and their well being.
And their education.
So yeah, we worked with them last year.
So that's to give you a sort of a flavour of how we're getting young people into the National Park.
Or just connecting with nature in different ways that are interesting to them.
Or that enrich the curriculum.
That support their development.
And enhance their well being and health.
Nature has a central role to play in both health and education.
Yeah, and you've really demonstrated that with everything that you've spoken about today.
And what I really liked in that last bit, because you were talking about the pupil referral units, actually they're doing these projects, but what they're doing with that is they're seeing themselves in that landscape.
That's a really nice thing to think about it in that way, because I suppose they've seen themselves in lots of other Situations and found themselves in different situations that were perhaps they might be positive but might be negative as well But actually here they were having a massively positive experience.
It's gonna make a huge difference to them in their future and Massive memories for them, but part of that memory is actually seeing themselves there So I think that's really nice the way that you put that So you mentioned earlier on is our education system working as it is now and you suggest not.
So I just want to come to is there any other key messages or questions or points that you'd like people to take away from what you've talked about today? Yeah, where do I start Ruth? There's so much, give me 2 or 3 key points.
Yeah, 2 or 3.
Well, just to focus back on that one that you mentioned there, Ruth, is, nature should be more central in our education system and the education of our children.
Being realistic about and pragmatic that opportunities for play have reduced, for a variety of reasons.
So we need to promote that and bring that back in, and I think the education system needs to do that.
Kids learn in a variety of different ways, and I think To a degree some might disagree with me on this.
I think our education system is a Victorian system still even when you think about the school holidays are based around when children would be going out to work on the land We still operate on that system So I think we just need to rethink our education system slightly and give up opportunities to teach through nature like I demonstrated with curriculum enrichment, but realizing that we do have to give them some freedom and exploration and, whether that's in an, in a national park, whether that's just in the school grounds, that freedom to spend time because it's going to benefit the other parts of their life and their education by having that and recognizing that not all of the children in schools are getting those experiences.
So making it equitable, but yeah, bringing nature into.
The classroom as well, one teacher was greening her classroom after the Stepping Stones project because she saw the benefit both in terms of, creating that calming environment, but then using it in science so I think it needs to be much more prevalent in education.
The health benefits of nature now are proven and common sense.
And there's a lot of research being done around nature connection and health and well being.
It is beneficial for us.
It is vital for us.
The problem is, it's just not linked.
So you do have green social prescribing, which we're involved in with another project.
But I think it's not as prevalent, the impact can be just as much as a form of medication, but it's not seen as a priority thing to do and it's not, therefore not given the funding.
So although it's like one of those nice things to have, and everyone recognizes the benefit, and that it's cost effective.
And that the results can be just as effective for lots of people as medication and various other types of social prescribing.
It's just not given the priority or the funding.
And it's not linked up so that, certainly from our perspective, the health service, and The providers like ourselves and others, organisations, even like the National Parks, they're just not linked up with the health service and that feels to me like such a missed opportunity.
It is.
We talk, there's lots of talk around a natural health service, it's proven it saves money, the NHS needs it.
We need more money on the front line and to find, savings elsewhere within the health service.
This is one of them, it just feels it's just not given the priority because there's still maybe a bit of a, oh, that's one of those kind of new wave things.
But it works and it's important and it feels like a missed opportunity.
Hospitals and NHS trusts locally aren't working with their national parks or their nature reserves to prescribe people and patients onto pathways and services that they're providing.
But then to green their own spaces.
I know there's a bit of a push around that, but greening hospitals and, you only have to think a hundred years ago, convalescence and things like that, they would go to like spa towns and one local to us, Saltburn, people would go there for the therapy of the sea air.
We've detached ourselves so far away from something that is fairly common sense and what we should be doing.
So, getting nature into the health service some way.
That should be a priority for both, cost saving but actually improving outcomes, preventing poorer health in the long term and, tackling the worsening outcomes that we're seeing right now.
And then other, takeaways.
More than anything is, I'm going to be really Speaky and just use this.
I actually think that in this country, it is horses for courses, but Big charities that already have big budgets and lots of donations coming in You know seem to gobble up the majority of donations in this country but inevitably because they've got the footprint and they've got the money to be able to market and Be in lots of different spaces, but there's so many And I'm not just thinking about ourselves here.
Lots of small, medium sized charities right across the country that do amazing work, around, nature, as we've been talking about, but lots of things, and, I just think The system doesn't necessarily work for lots of them small charities who are doing amazing work.
They just don't get the recognition and they don't get the support and the funding often.
So maybe a point for your listeners, if anyone, has got any power there with that maybe bigger charities need to work with smaller charities to boost them up, and lift them up.
And, because we're losing charities left, right and centre, that's up important to communities.
Because the opportunities aren't there bring in funding to keep their services going.
Or they don't have the footprint to command the kind of donations that bigger charities do.
But slightly little cheeky plea there, but I think there needs to be some recognition of small charities, of the role they play, but we don't get any recognition for it.
It's an important point, so it's not so cheeky really, because actually, otherwise all this amazing work that you've been talking about doesn't happen.
So I think your key points was, get nature into education.
Get more green spaces in education, get nature into health, and in fact link them up together.
And then that bit about, supporting the charities to be able to do the amazing work that you're doing.
It's been absolutely fascinating.
I've really enjoyed it, James.
You mentioned the natural health service.
And you certainly demonstrated that, while you were talking so, thank you so much for coming on my podcast.
And for Sharing everything that you do and the difference that it's making.
Thank you.
No, thank you very much, Ruth, for having me on.
I've really, yeah, enjoyed it and sharing some insight.
And if I can inspire others or at least, start conversations, then I'll be happy with that.
I really appreciate you having me on, Ruth.
You're more than welcome.
Thank you.
Bye bye.
Bye.
Bye.
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