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E15 Faster and Easier Upselling with Liam Pearce · Stronger Business Together

• Granger Forson: So this is the Stronger Business Together podcast where business owners learn from other business owners. No theory, no gurus, just real journeys and overcoming real hurdles. Today I'm joined by Liam Pearce who runs Pearce IT. Like any owner, he's in that middle of building things, fixing things, growing things, something that really matters to him. Liam, welcome. Thanks for spending your time with us today. We're on a mission to make business owners stronger together. If this conversation has helped you, please comment and follow on whatever platform you're using. Liam Pearce: Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. Granger Forson: About 60 % of our audience hasn't done that yet, and these small actions help us reach more business owners just like you. you want to join in the conversation as a guest, ⁓ if you have a hurdle question for us to tackle, then reach out to us at info ⁓ strongerbusinesstogether.com. Now, make week really successful, and ⁓ we'll see next time. Cheers! Brilliant. Right, let's get going. Act one, your business. So in plain English, what does your business do? Liam Pearce: So Pearce IT is founded back in 2012 by myself after years of doing freelance IT, made it into the business it is today. We look after smaller medium businesses, all their IT and telecoms needs and wherever they're based. Granger Forson: Excellent. So who do you love helping and what are they typically dealing with? Liam Pearce: So we love to help businesses with usually around the sort of five to 70 user network and above to really help them streamline their IT and telecoms, ensuring they've got a single bill at the end of the month and that we can provide them with all their telecoms and IT needs. Granger Forson: And was that original spark then? You talked about ⁓ and the business got going. What was that original spark? ⁓ Liam Pearce: The original spark was ⁓ after years of working in large corporates and reapplying for your job every two years, I just wanted to actually give back to the smaller business. Lovely to see the smaller businesses as they grow, as they evolve, using enterprise technology, but at price that's really suitable for small and medium businesses. Everyone has a go at pulling it together, but as compliance has become a huge part of IT these days, helping them with their cybersecurity and all qualifications they need to be able to trade. we can help them along that journey just to make sure that they are staying strong and staying fit. Granger Forson: Brilliant. So using all that knowledge that you had to bring to the smaller industries rather than the big business enterprises. So what does your business look like today in terms of size and shape? Liam Pearce: So in terms of size and shape, we've got around 650 clients on the books. got eight members of staff. The majority of those are support staff. We after businesses throughout the whole of the UK. ⁓ Granger Forson: Wow, So why do customers pick you How you them? ⁓ Liam Pearce: With our customers, we like to do a free IT health check to start off, really get our head under the bonnet, look at what they've got, how they use it, and then using Microsoft as our primary backbone of all of our IT services, we help them to maximise the use of it, whether it's through file storage, emails, SharePoint, and all the other features that come with Office 365, to also reduce their subscriptions for all those unnecessary things that are already painful. but also to really make sure they've got a platform that's built and will actually help their business grow, streamlining their services. Granger Forson: And you've had some significant growth over time. You you and I have known each other for a few years now through some networking. Why do you think your customers come to you? Who do you sort of specialize to help? Liam Pearce: We work quite heavily at the moment in the care industry and also in schools because we can help them with their cybersecurity, making sure that they are keeping everything safe and secure. lot of businesses ⁓ want to spend too much on their IT like no one does because it's an overhead that we don't really want to be paying for, ⁓ we really help them to actually maximise the use of the subscriptions they're paying for and making sure they're compliant. Granger Forson: And why do you think schools and the care industry coming knocking on your door? What makes you ⁓ do you think, to other providers that are out there? Liam Pearce: So one of the things that we have, all our staff are full DBS cleared. We are actually CyberCentral Plus certified, also Microsoft partner as well. And we work only with UK and well, only with UK hosted companies now to make sure that their data stays compliant and stays in UK. Compliance is becoming the largest part of it, of any work we do. We want to be that single one-stop shop that ensures that customers come to us, whether it's their broadband. They're voice telephony, they're Office 365, they're backup, and the whole IT endpoint security is all at top notch and actually going to be helping them. Granger Forson: So for those bigger organisations that are probably get funded by the UK government, they're mandating all those requirements these days and you've got those in place so therefore you can help them grow. Fantastic, I can see how that's really working. So tell me about a customer success story that you're really proud of. Liam Pearce: So we work, one of the schools we look after, they've got an in-house IT person already. They do the sort of endpoint support. So the support for the physical devices on site. But fortunately, they've not had the opportunity to grow their skill set to actually learn the new Microsoft technologies. They've all been stuck in a rut, working with sort of silo technology of what's been in there. They've just been maintaining and looking after it. So we've actually put in a whole transformational piece of moving them to the cloud. using modern workplaces as a base platform, which has enabled them to actually decommission around three servers, three racks full of servers, and move their stuff to the cloud, enabling their staff to be able to work whenever and wherever they need. It's reduced a huge overhead of replacing the hardware as it comes to the end of life. Microsoft operating systems coming out as support, those costs are absolutely humongous costs ⁓ no one really wants to swallow. And if you haven't got the skillset in house, It's brilliant to have an IT partner which will help you along that journey and help you get to that end game. Granger Forson: Fantastic, love that. That was a really success story of reducing costs but also improving efficiency at the same time. Fantastic. So business needs leads. Leads into then prospects ⁓ over time. How do you go about generating leads? ⁓ Liam Pearce: We do little bit of networking, so we partner with two networking organisations in particular and they provide usually around 80 % of the work that we get. But all of our work comes from referral. We don't do a huge amount of marketing. We have enough customers coming to us looking for us to sign up with. They've either been recommended through a charity alliance or it could be through a care alliance. where they all get together and say, who does your IT and telecoms? And then our names and stuff crop up in those little circles. just great to be known for what you're doing in the area and actually get referrals from existing clients. It's a piece of mind that we're obviously doing the job right for the right people. Granger Forson: Brilliant, brilliant. So the business is growing. are you aiming for in the next 12 months and why? Liam Pearce: The next 12 months, we're looking basically to really focus our time and efforts on, we want to look after companies that look after people. So whether it's still within the care industry or whether it's helping the next education for younger people, whether they've got any disabilities and in non-standard schools, we can actually help them with that education. Because at the end of the day, we've got to look after the people that are going to be looking after us at a later date as well. But it's just helping everyone to move along that journey of life really, just to help them to learn new skills, using technology as a partner, not as a replacement the human interaction, ⁓ just really helping people build that community and build that service they offer as a business. Granger Forson: I love that. I love that. That's really good. I like that. Helping people that help people. Fantastic. So let's move on to Act Two now. The journey of your business. you've got to, where you've got to today. ⁓ over the last years, think calculated, if I've got that right, ⁓ what's been some highs and lows ⁓ in the business Liam Pearce: Yeah. In the last couple of years, it's been a lot harder. During the COVID time, it was quite difficult because you couldn't get out there and meet new clients. But over the COVID period, think people have really taken stock of their IT. They've looked at what they're spending and they're looking at thinking, how can we save costs? And Office 365 is an ever-expanding empire. You've got things like your bookings you can now do within there. Some people are using Calendly. You've got a lot of stuff, PDF creation, editing, you can create all those through Office 365 now. You've got SharePoint so you can collaborate people inside and outside of your tenant as well. And it's really over the last couple of years, it's seen customers really take stock of what they've got. It's not really been about making more profit, it's about enabling them to streamline their business so that when they have got the cash available, we can spend it on important things like... new hardware that's required. People have had their laptops, they're struggling a bit, again, a bit slow. Can we increase the memory on it or are we looking at new devices? The of hardware, particularly over last 12 months, has absolutely rocketed due to unforeseen circumstances. And what we're looking at doing is just making sure that when we send a piece of IT equipment, like a new laptop PC, that that PC is going to last a good three to five years. We're not looking at sending you something now that you could have bought from another retailer. which you were going to have to upgrade in 12 months time, probably have to do something, replace another part in the two years. know, kit needs to be built and solid. People can't budget for replacing kit on an annual basis. need something that's monthly subscription based and really works for them. Granger Forson: So delighting your customers, the growth that you've got from that, some highs. What are some of the lows over the last few years? Liam Pearce: So, not being able to keep in contact with our clients for quite so much. We've always prided ourselves on being approachable, face-to-face contact, and just really being there for our clients. Obviously, you can do things remotely, can do it over Teams, you can have phone calls and all that sort of stuff, but nothing really beats that physical going to a business and saying, wow, you've got a lovely engineering company here, you're growing your business. What are you doing? And really sitting down, building those strategies with them. One of the things that we really like to do is build a strategy with the clients. particular engineering company we've got based down in Stroud. They're looking at moving to larger premises and really doubling the size of their infrastructure and what they can actually produce. So we're working with them at the moment on making sure that all the cloud services they've got are fully expandable. And as they move into new premises where they're going to be running two separate businesses, they're going to merge them together into one big company. And we're looking at how we can actually properly get a good IT strategy together for them. Granger Forson: Mmm, brilliant. a sometimes it really gets hard, doesn't it? ⁓ What have learned about yourself when times have got tough? Liam Pearce: think it's also about work-life balance. We encourage our staff to always make sure they use their holidays, they're taking time out. We've got a fantastic location where we are, where we've got the lovely common. You can go out and look over the valleys. And people need to be able to switch off, know, not actually taking those phone calls out of hours and, you know, be able to have the staff around you. So over the last three years, we've doubled the number of staff that we have internally. which has enabled me to take more time out. I have a wonderful dog, Toby, and we like to go out walking, go to the seaside, go climbing mountains, go cycling and stuff like that. we're really encouraging, one of the biggest things, challenges is actually getting that work-life balance, which is something that as a business owner we struggle with, but also empowering our staff to actually make that switch off as well. ⁓ much as we enjoy and have a huge passion for IT, it's so nice to disconnect from it at times as well. Granger Forson: ⁓ I appreciate that. Thank you for sharing. what's a ⁓ habit that put in place that helps your team to be stronger together? Liam Pearce: For our team, we tend to have the occasional socials. We go out and do things together. our team, we also make sure that they do take proper lunch breaks. And just really focus on empowering them to actually learn more. So become right, do their Microsoft exams ⁓ to be the fountain of knowledge for the clients. Because our clients want us to know every single thing that there is about each of the products that we sell, which is impossible to do because the new products and services and new features coming out. constantly with particularly Microsoft. So we're spending a lot of time and effort and we encourage our staff to do as much training as possible just to take that time out so that when they get asked that question they're not having to research or to go back to the supplier. It's just they know this stuff off the top of their head and the more that you can bring with new ideas into the business always an open door. We'd always like to learn new things, new technology and new ways of working. Granger Forson: brilliant. Stronger together, we believe in growing people. So what ⁓ have you learnt growing that maybe you wish you'd learned earlier on your journey of building your business? Liam Pearce: Don't be frightened of them. One of the things that I think a lot of businesses are really scared of is I don't want to give them too much training because they'll just take the training and then move elsewhere. But there's nothing more delightful than actually seeing a member of staff leave. You've empowered them, you've given them the training, you've given them the encouragement, they've learned new skills. I'd like to go and do this now in a large corporate environment or in an enterprise somewhere. One of the things that I think a lot of businesses are really scared of is I don't want to give them too much training because they'll just take the training and then move elsewhere. But there's nothing more delightful than actually seeing a member of staff leave. You've empowered them, you've given them the training, you've given them the encouragement, they've learned new skills. I'd like to go and do this now in a large corporate environment or in an enterprise somewhere. It's quite a proud moment to realize that, you know, you've taken this person on as like, could be a, and as an apprentice, you've trained them up over four or five years. They'll, they're fully fledged and they're going off to learn, either do some project work abroad or they're moving to London to work in a large enterprise thing. And it's just nice to see people grow. It's quite a proud moment to realize that, you know, you've taken this person on as like, could be a, and as an apprentice, you've trained them up over four or five years. They'll, they're fully fledged and they're going off to learn, either do some project work abroad or they're moving to London to work in a large enterprise thing. And it's just nice to see people grow. There'd always be people, you don't want people to be siloed into a job that they're doing the same day in day out, just to actually see people learn new skills, develop themselves. And whether that's with you or without you, just to actually see people's lives grow through the work that you've actually helped them do. Granger Forson: That's beautiful there. Thank you so much for that fantastic share about people. We also believe in simplification and making business simpler. So what you done to remove something from the business that brought energy back to it? Liam Pearce: Thanks. ⁓ Fully automating everything we do really. we, all of our suppliers now have to have a fully open API that integrates with our billing platform and our ticketing system. If they can't comply with that, then we don't have them as suppliers. We like everything. If we order a product for our customer, it's from order acceptance for our quoting system to order provisioning and order going live. Everything's fully automated, which is simplified, ⁓ inaccuracies. is make sure that we're profitable it's the major rules that the billing is accurate and it's accurate from day one. Granger Forson: Excellent. Now there's lots of talk of use of AI and the growth of AI and I'm sure this podcast will be out and completely changed by the time it's moving so fast. what would you never let AI do because it needs that human judgment? Liam Pearce: Ha ha ha ha! There's nothing you can't really get AI to do, but you really need to validate it. It's there as a, in Microsoft words, it's your co-pilot. It's not your bill at end or you don't trust everything it says. You need to have, which is why we empower our AI staff to make sure that they've done the skills and the training. That when you get a response from AI, it's not, ⁓ that must be right, because AI told me that. It's like, where did it get that from? And is it right? And that doesn't really fit with the fundamental knowledge I've got. need to use AI, we believe or I believe, that in a business sense, it's there to help you along the journey and to simplify some tasks. It's not there to replace people. It's not there to replace roles, responsibilities, ⁓ it's definitely not there to replace ⁓ ⁓ physical person because someone needs to have that final decision on is that right? And is it actually more importantly right for our client? People need to use AI, we believe or I believe, that in a business sense, it's there to help you along the journey and to simplify some tasks. It's not there to replace people. It's not there to replace roles, responsibilities, and it's definitely not there to replace the actual physical person because someone needs to have that final decision on is that right? And is it actually more importantly right for our client? Granger Forson: Yeah, fantastic. Yes, I totally agree. It's an enabling tool, so use it as an enabling tool rather than a replacing tool. And I was reading over the weekend that a number of businesses that have replaced people with AI have found it doesn't quite work how they thought it was going to work and they wish that maybe they hadn't cut as fast as they had. I'm sure it will be. job replacement in maybe 10 years time but it'll accelerate and grow over time. Fantastic, So, your business, it gets really busy now and then I'm sure like any business, know things get really hectic. How do you keep the business healthy even when it's really busy? Liam Pearce: When it's busy, we're lucky because we have a fantastic ticketing system which helps us to prioritize work and make sure work's done in a timely and accurate fashion. When we're busy, we're just making sure we have time to take out from it. We don't want our staff to burn out because we've got too much work on. It's all about prioritizing and also keeping the customer in the loop. The customer needs to know on their journey, exactly where they are, who we're waiting on. with ourselves, it's very rarely that it's a single supplier. So it'd be like Microsoft if it's our email and Office 365. We might be working with one of our connectivity partners, which we've got many, to provide broadband and making sure the customer's getting fastest speed. We may even have cable installations that are going in. And the whole thing of like number porting and moving numbers onto our platform to make sure they can receive, make and receive telephone calls. There's so many parts of it. and having a single ticketing system where we can interact both with our clients and also with our suppliers just to make sure that everyone's up to date and make sure that transparency is so important with our clients. They know exactly where they are on that journey and make sure that it's all the boxes ticked and done in the right order. Granger Forson: using technology to help a technology company. ⁓ Liam Pearce: Definitely, yeah. Granger Forson: So let's move on to ⁓ Act 3 our round. So ⁓ what have you as a hurdles day? Because I we've to pick one from a listener. ⁓ Liam Pearce: Yes, one of the things listeners have suggested and it's also something we use in-house is the upselling of new products and services to existing client bases. So it's really looking at what products and services have we got and what products and services do our clients need. And they sort of touch home with us because it's one of things we do is we look at our client base, we've got a number of clients and it's how do we make sure that they've got, you know, making the most of what we can offer. helping to reduce down to that single bill. Bit like in the utility warehouse where you've got your gas, electric, your phone, and all in one place, how can we help businesses without that same strategy of putting it all together so you've got that single point of persons to contact who will speak to all those different people in the background? Granger Forson: Mm-hmm. Okay, fantastic. And specifically we were talking about before we came on the call was this idea of it can be very time consuming. Maybe some of the upsells are not as valuable as the amount of effort that you have to go into putting into it. So it's this time consuming element of frustration. Liam Pearce: Yeah. Granger Forson: we could fix this in the next quarter. ⁓ effort involved. ⁓ would better look like in a short sentence? ⁓ Liam Pearce: Better would be, for most companies, including ourselves, it's actually where do you get the data from? How do you know what client, what products, and all the rest of it have they got? know, in an IT background, you could have IT support, could have antivirus, you could have broadband. There's so many different products and services out there, and it's how to clate all that details together. Yes, there's probably a system for it, and yes, there's probably a product for it. But the thing is you don't want to be spending sort of tens of thousands of pounds creating integration points and all the software. AI doesn't have a direct link into your backend account system and all we want it to. So how do other people or is there a better way of putting all that data together? Granger Forson: Hmm. Okay. So let's, let's just talk around our starting condition, where we are today. So great example. You've talked about yourself, you know, so that could be a good, useful starting point. So if think about ⁓ what have today, all the different services and the of it, how many of those clients do you think do you service a full suite, whatever that definition is? Liam Pearce: Yeah, so for ourselves, there's probably, I'd say around 40%, we probably sell full suite to, which is quite low. it doesn't obviously work to be done there. we are looking at ways that we can upsell other products and services. It's hard with such a marketplace well, particularly for ourselves, know, with broadband, know, fibre to of premises being rolled out and what you may look up today is totally different tomorrow. ⁓ Granger Forson: Okay. Liam Pearce: It's knowing what's out there and when it's actually going to be live. You know, it's not when you see the guy with a JCB in the, in the footpath. It's actually when are we actually going to be able to connect the business to the broadband. Granger Forson: Yes Yeah, hopefully JCB is not going to go through the other lines that are there because I've worked in a business where that actually happened. Okay, so about 40 % probably take on and we also have these issues of technology changing. But let's just focus on the sort of time consuming part for it at the moment. So if 40 % was taking all of the suite of services that you have. Liam Pearce: Quite often happens. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Granger Forson: What would a good target condition be in the next quarter? What would you want to try and achieve? Liam Pearce: think it's the analytical side of it really. It's actually having that full breakdown of these customers have got this, these customers have got that, and really looking at finding out how do you collect that data? How do you know when their broadband services are up to date, when they're due for renewal? Because obviously you don't want to be moving people mid-contract because then you've got the whole buyout. With the Office 365, you're on a base package now, but did you know that if you went out to a business premium, Granger Forson: Mmm. Liam Pearce: You'd also get the advanced email filtering. You'd also get conditional access. And there's loads of new features. And it's working with clients about when is the best time to move and migrate other products and services. Granger Forson: so me your business. How do you your selves relative your clients? So I mean by that is does ⁓ everybody interact because they a knowledge of a client needs broadband? You have somebody with a knowledge broadband. Somebody needs Microsoft somebody needs element about Microsoft and upgrade. How do you manage that today across your teams and your staff? Liam Pearce: Across teams and staff, it's rudimentary really ⁓ a account management, as a business owner, and also as our account managers as well. ⁓ make sure that we go on the sales courses so can learn what is the new technology. So when we're actually going out to speak to people, we know what it is. Our team are primarily focused on looking after the existing ones, but as they're looking at stuff, they ⁓ quite come to us and say, their stuff would work so much better if they had faster internet or... ⁓ They've got this product, but Microsoft Suite, but they really need the features of the upgrade or this bolt on it. It's just our staff trying to keep them up to date with the new products and services that are out there with their Microsoft exams as well, just to make sure that we've got the best knowledge we have to serve our clients, really. Granger Forson: And is it specifically through client service managers? How many of those do you have? Or does the whole team get involved? Liam Pearce: The whole team really. after, ⁓ have an account manager, Jack, and he works alongside of me. ⁓ we look after one doing a new business and one doing existing business. And us, we try and look after our clients just to make sure we're ticking all the boxes for their needs. But really the most important bit is sitting down with them at least once a year, just to have the IT strategy. What are you wanting to achieve in the next 12 to 12 months to three years? And how can we help you along that journey to make sure that as you grow, businesses grow through standard growth, organic growth, which is okay, but also grow a lot through acquisitions these days. If they were to onboard another client or another supplier, how would that look and ⁓ would we need to change on the landscape of their IT today to enable that business to move in? Granger Forson: Okay, it's sort of everybody's responsibility rather than anybody's responsibility maybe ⁓ going on because everybody's involved, nobody's involved, which is quite a classic thing that happens in many situations. But we also think about that, how many did you say you had again? ⁓ Liam Pearce: Yep, definitely. We've got 650 in Granger Forson: Okay, so 650 clients, 40 % of which potentially have your full package and services, even they need to get upgrades and opportunities come along. ⁓ your So let's just pick something really simple ⁓ for conversation. Microsoft bring an upgrade package that would be useful. What's recently happened in the world of Microsoft that would be useful as an upgrade ⁓ to all your clients? Liam Pearce: One of the big things that they've released recently, of course, is Copilot. So Copilot has become a brilliant product out there. We use it internally. It does do, it helps us with mainly proofreading and best communication, really. And it's great for our clients. We're trying to get people onto seminars we're doing and stuff like that. Granger Forson: Okay, so Microsoft brings out this new thing, Copilot, it's been out for a while, how would you go about today talking to your clients, the existing ones, so the 40 % that now have a new product they need to get onto, plus then the other 60%, how do you go about then talking to them, updating and identifying that this opportunity is in place for them? Liam Pearce: That's the bit we struggle with. it's about finding those opportunities and finding for our clients what their expectations from it, particularly with AI. Is AI out there and is it going to transform their world and reduce their head count for staff or is it there to assist them? There seems to be a lot of misconception that AI is going to replace people. It will replace processes, it won't replace people. Granger Forson: Mmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So it doesn't sound to me like you have a a method, whatever we want to call it, a of introducing new ideas that the team have found. ⁓ Hey, we this fantastic new idea. What should we do with our clients? Do we vet it? Do we then have a process, a method for informing our clients of these updates and changes that taking place? Sounds like it's a bit more haphazard at this moment in time, the way you're doing it. Liam Pearce: Definitely. Yeah. Granger Forson: Yeah. So we were think about then what would be a good structure to take place, because ⁓ do you want it to happen with every single client? Yeah. the amount of effort involved in every single client, the amount of effort involved with each of the changes. ⁓ So segregating your clients into different the the important bucket. These are the people that the latest technology, we need to get it out to them fast, defining how we do that in a moment. These other buckets are people that we need to upskill to get onto our other packages. And these other ones are, okay, if we get to them once a year and have a conversation with them once a year, then that'll be great, but we don't need to put as much effort into them. So we're using that sort of Pareto curve, the 80-20 rule for that. sort of structure would that then envisage for you? Liam Pearce: ⁓ As a structure at the moment, it tends to be who we're speaking to, whether the product was right for them, but we do need to pull a whole process together really about how we upgrade existing clients to these new products and features. people don't want marketing emails. They want to know how is it actually going to affect my business if I was to buy this product. Granger Forson: Yeah, and so having a mechanism to review the product change that's come in place, having a review mechanism of which type of clients would we then pass this out to, having a non-marketing, a look here's a real fact type information to you, do you want to know more to allow them to pull to you, the people that you're going to email that to, ⁓ even phone them up if they're the ⁓ value clients because you know the really big clients with, 30 or 40 seats or 100 seats they're more valuable to you to move them across than somebody that maybe got two seats I don't know I'm just theorizing here for you having that mechanism ⁓ place and that structure to be able to do that so ⁓ think in case of what you're saying at the moment the root cause of this problem is actually you don't have a way of working today that would then you could then improve and develop and get better and better. ⁓ Okay, so just thinking through what we've been talking through, what resonates with you? Liam Pearce: It's that whole structure and process really, that's the bit that's most important. know, collating the data will do, but is a time consuming job either for an admin person or for our account managers to actually go through and say, these customers haven't got it, but with a new product, the benefit to them? So it's working out that benefit analysis, you know, is it going to improve their productivity by 40 %? Do we even know the customer that well and ⁓ they work? that it's going to improve their business processes. So it's like redoing that IT health check we do at the beginning of what do you use, how do you use it, and how would you get best value of it? And it's how do you restart those conversations? Granger Forson: So. So that's probably that initial conversation, but it's probably a case of, already said you don't have the data set, maybe the data set can be built one bit at a time, but build it in chunks rather than trying to, know, Rome wasn't built in a day, don't try and eat the elephant in one go and all those silly expressions. Break it down and say, what are the most valuable clients for us to keep most ahead? Learn from those, work with, I don't know, 10 clients, okay, 10 large clients or 10 important clients, define that. But working with those 10 first, over a quarter, working together as a team, analyzing, working out, talking about products and services they have, building the structure and experiments around that. And then, you know, then the next quarter launching, then the next 10 clients. through iterative activity rather than what I need to do is sit down and build the best process right from the beginning. It's better to bring your team together because I love the way you've talked about growing your team. Bring your team together, pick 10, work on 10, develop it. You may start off with that, oh! spreadsheet shall we call it you know that initial way of just practicing ideas working out what's going on pulling the data together and over time then you would then automate it which i know you've done with a lot of your systems you've talked about that but starting small and building from there and building that method of working together to identify and make that happen Liam Pearce: Sounds good, yeah. Granger Forson: Okay, so based on that what would be your first experiment this week? Liam Pearce: Our first experiment would be with a new product. We've got a few new products we've just done some training for last week actually, as it happens. It's looking at our client base and this new product has got a fantastic opportunity into certain sectors. So we might take a certain sector like engineering for instance and say that these products will fit really well in our engineering clients. We've got quite a few of them so look at those ones and how we can really help them with it. Granger Forson: you a structure within your week or fortnight where the whole team sits together for half an hour, 10 minutes, you you decide and say, okay, what's new out there? Which clients would this affect the best? how would we ⁓ nominate to speak them? Because some might a phone call, some might want to have an email. structure of that. But by getting everybody involved in the conversation of how we will do it, again just pick 10 clients initially and work on 10 clients and work out how to build that system over the next quarter, you'll start to learn as a team how to make it more successful, you'll feed back to each other, you'll grow that and develop that slowly and then you'll then have something that you can then roll out. And if you your clients rather than think every time, ⁓ all clients, ⁓ just 10. Which 10 would you focus on first and why? and how would you spend the next quarter turning them around to add more services that makes them more successful as the businesses they need to be. Liam Pearce: Sounds good. Granger Forson: Okay, all right, so we focus on clients over the next quarter and learn together as a team how to make this work, how would you know that been successful? Liam Pearce: We look at our sales revenue, what's coming to the pipeline and also what we're building. So it's not necessarily a sale today, but it's a sale that's on the table for later on as well. Granger Forson: Excellent. have you found that useful? Do you think you've got some good next steps? Liam Pearce: Oh, definitely. I've got a few notes I've down here. Looking forward to building this with our team and just putting those ideas together. Thank you very much. Granger Forson: Brilliant. Super. So let's go into our wrap up and close. Now, Liam, what did you hear yourself say today that maybe surprised you? Liam Pearce: I was really surprised at how simple and breaking down the processes is really good. Granger Forson: Excellent Liam, so where can people find you if they want to follow more of your journey? Liam Pearce: If they find us on our Facebook or look at our website at psit.co.uk find on there and learn about the products and services we offer and more than happy to start that conversation. Granger Forson: thank you so much for being open and honest today. ⁓ know our listeners will get an awful lot from this conversation. It's been fantastic. Thank you. Liam Pearce: Thanks very much.