Latest / Brian Thomas / Judge Christopher McDowell - Threatened by defendant

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Judge Christopher McDowell - Threatened by defendant · Brian Thomas

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The court here in the Hamilton County in study to
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: talk about what is going on in his world. And
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I remember the judges have a very difficult time right
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: they're on the bench. They must preside over very significant matters,
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  Speaker 1: criminal and otherwise. And there are of course a lot
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: of people in the courtroom with opinions, some of them
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  Speaker 1: not real Please that their brother, their husband, their wife,
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  Speaker 1: whoever is being tried for murder or some other crime
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: or anything else. They have opinions quite often that filters
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: over and lands in the judges lap in the form
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: of insults, verbal or even threats. And then you get
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  Speaker 1: the online element that I've been talking about a lot
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  Speaker 1: this morning. Judge McDowell has experienced this. He's got a
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: great legal career. Hamilton County Court of Common Please. He
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  Speaker 1: was appointed by Governor de Wine in September of last year.
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  Speaker 1: He was with Strauss and Troy prior to that, outstanding
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  Speaker 1: law firm. Prior to that, Dinsmore Shoal another great firm,
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  Speaker 1: and of course US Army Judge Advocate General Corps between
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  Speaker 1: ninety four and two thousand. Thank you for your service
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  Speaker 1: to our country, Judge McDowell. Great to have you here.
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  Speaker 2: It's great to be here, Thank you very much.
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  Speaker 1: It's a tough job, isn't it.
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  Speaker 2: It's a lot harder than I thought, but it should
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  Speaker 2: be hard.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Well, Yeah, a tremendous amount of responsibility comes with it.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, if you're like me, you have a profound
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  Speaker 1: respect for the law. That's one of the reasons why
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  Speaker 1: I went to law school. I appreciate it, you know.
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  Speaker 1: I enjoyed practicing law when I did it, but I
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  Speaker 1: had respect for it. And so many people just want
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  Speaker 1: to write rough shot all over it and threatening a judge,
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  Speaker 1: which I understand happens to you, is one of the
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  Speaker 1: mechanisms they used to write rough shot over and of
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  Speaker 1: course trying to get a verdict perhaps in a case
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  Speaker 1: that you otherwise might not render, that is consistent with
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  Speaker 1: the law. So what happened with you specifically? Apparently your
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: family also got threatened.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, the threat was directed primarily to my family. Oh my,
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  Speaker 2: The individual indicator that he was going to kill my
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  Speaker 2: family if I send him to prison. And I sent
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  Speaker 2: him to prison because that's where some people belong. Other
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: people don't belong there, but some people that's what's in
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  Speaker 2: their future, and they don't like that. That's what's in
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  Speaker 2: their future, and they lash out. But we can't allow
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: that to drive the train here. We have to do justice.
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  Speaker 1: No, and again going back to my problem with social media,
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  Speaker 1: same kind of thing you know politicians, you know, viv
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  Speaker 1: ramosomy with this wonderful op ed that I even read
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  Speaker 1: on the air this morning, you get this perception of
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  Speaker 1: the public will, but it's all magnified by foreign actors, bots,
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  Speaker 1: artificial intelligence, and so you get the perception that this
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  Speaker 1: is the way most people you know, feel or believe
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  Speaker 1: about any given issue when it is not representative of
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  Speaker 1: what the constituents want. But in your court of law,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: maybe it explains, and I'll ask you to chime in
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  Speaker 1: on this. Your experience with a verbal threat of death
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  Speaker 1: or a threat to your family of death? Is that
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  Speaker 1: maybe the answer to why judges are so soft on crime,
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  Speaker 1: maybe less of a political ideology that these defendants maybe
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  Speaker 1: had a bad home life, or otherwise we're victims of
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  Speaker 1: some sort of societal problem and therefore shouldn't be held
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  Speaker 1: accountable for their crimes, or maybe it's something like what
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  Speaker 1: you experience. Any thoughts on that.
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  Speaker 2: I like to think that every judge does their duty
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  Speaker 2: and that no judge is acting because they're afraid of
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  Speaker 2: what may happen as a result of a decision. I
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  Speaker 2: think that what we see here is a general breakdown
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  Speaker 2: in the respect for the law in society, and I
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  Speaker 2: see this every day in my courtroom. The way people dress,
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  Speaker 2: you see, you know, women wearing yoga pants, you see
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  Speaker 2: men wearing T shirts, jeans. It's not like it was
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  Speaker 2: thirty years ago when I began practicing law. The way
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  Speaker 2: people talk to the court, you know, it's people have
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  Speaker 2: gum in their mouth, people are yeah, it's instead of yes.
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  Speaker 2: It's a real lack of respect. And when I was
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  Speaker 2: a defense attorney, I first began telling people, well, you're
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  Speaker 2: going to go to court, dress like you're going to
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  Speaker 2: go to church. But then I realized the people don't
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  Speaker 2: go to church. And then I'd say, dress like you're
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  Speaker 2: going to go to a job interview. Then I started
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  Speaker 2: to realize they don't go to job interviews either. A
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  Speaker 2: lot of the problems that I see are people who
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  Speaker 2: just don't know how to adult. They don't know how
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  Speaker 2: to shot, go up on tom they don't know how
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  Speaker 2: to dress, and they don't know how to talk because
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  Speaker 2: they've never been told how to do those things because
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  Speaker 2: our society is breaking down.
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  Speaker 1: Wow, that's a whole lot to swallow. We're going to
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  Speaker 1: break down a little bit and see if we can
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  Speaker 1: figure out some of the reasons why that might be
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  Speaker 1: break down to the family structure. Perhaps that's my first reaction.
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  Speaker 1: Hold On seven thirty seven fifty five KC the Talk stations,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: we get a word and Thomas with Judge Christopher McDowell.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Haim uncanny common please judge, he sees all kinds of
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  Speaker 1: cases and most recently was threatened by one of the
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  Speaker 1: defendants in his courtroom. Actually he was more his family
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  Speaker 1: had been threatened, but that since chills down my spine.
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  Speaker 1: My friend, you know, I've commented before, I'm sure there's
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  Speaker 1: a lot of haters of Brian Thomas out in the world.
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  Speaker 1: I've only received a couple of what I consider quasi
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  Speaker 1: credible threats, but I never go on social media to
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  Speaker 1: read anything about what anybody's saying. I'm sure there may
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  Speaker 1: be more than out there that I know of. If
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  Speaker 1: I don't see him, they don't bother me. You don't
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  Speaker 1: have that ability in your courtroom. You're there face to
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  Speaker 1: face with the defendant and the surrounding family members and friends,
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  Speaker 1: which I understand is maybe a bigger part of the
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  Speaker 1: problem in your courtroom.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yes, it's the people in the gallery often present
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  Speaker 2: the biggest problem because there can be sometimes fifteen, twenty
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  Speaker 2: or more family members, and you know, I have security
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  Speaker 2: in the courtroom, but I don't. You know, if they
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  Speaker 2: want to bum rush me, it's a real problem. But
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  Speaker 2: gaining control of the courtroom can be very problematic when
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  Speaker 2: things don't go the way the family wants them to go.
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  Speaker 2: So I try to make it very clear that I'm
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  Speaker 2: not going to put up with any outburst, any hysteria.
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  Speaker 2: I kick people out of the courtroom quite frequently, tell
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  Speaker 2: them to go out in the hall, leave the courthouse
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  Speaker 2: if they can't behave It's not uncommon.
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  Speaker 1: Well, someone once told me it's not the death threats
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  Speaker 1: or the threats that are you read or hear that
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  Speaker 1: are the real problem. It's the ones you don't hear
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  Speaker 1: that are the problem. The most likely to actually engage
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  Speaker 1: in some sort of active violence toward any person for
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  Speaker 1: whatever reason. Then we'll talk about it out loud ahead.
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  Speaker 2: Of time, right, I mean, it's it's not just me
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  Speaker 2: that is the subject of this it's judges now more
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  Speaker 2: and more common throughout the United States, judges that are
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  Speaker 2: being threatened because it is this breakdown of a respect
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  Speaker 2: for the law that we see in this country. I'll
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  Speaker 2: tell you that the place that I feel safest is
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  Speaker 2: actually in my courtroom. I have deputies in the courtroom,
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  Speaker 2: and they are very highly trained. They are professional. They
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  Speaker 2: really do a fantastic job of bringing these inmates in
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  Speaker 2: and out of my courtroom. If I need extra security,
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  Speaker 2: I will tell my bailiff, you know, get somebody up
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  Speaker 2: here right away. Somebody will be there in just minutes
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  Speaker 2: or seconds. And so I feel very secure in the courtroom.
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  Speaker 2: You have to go through a metal detector to get
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  Speaker 2: into the building and all that. So I feel secure
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  Speaker 2: in the courtroom. I got to tell you, it's really
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  Speaker 2: leaving my house in the morning, going.
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  Speaker 1: To the car is exactly what I was going to
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  Speaker 1: ask you about, because you can feel safe with all
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  Speaker 1: that scurity you have in the courtroom. But you mentioned
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  Speaker 1: the threat was against your family. Your family doesn't enjoy
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  Speaker 1: that level of protection, at least I presume not. And
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  Speaker 1: I'm not going to break down how much is protection
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  Speaker 1: or security you've got in your own personal home. But
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: therein lies the challenge. JD Vance's vice president JD Vance's
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  Speaker 1: home got vandalized by a kid who was able to
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  Speaker 1: walk up the driveway well on a police on an
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  Speaker 1: unmarked a security car and then start hammering on the
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  Speaker 1: windows while the Secret Service agent he's yelling at him.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, you'd think they beat like the military in
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  Speaker 1: terms of security going on there, the vice president, and
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  Speaker 1: that was able to happen. You can't buy one hundred
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  Speaker 1: percent security anytime.
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  Speaker 2: No, you can't, you can't at all. The Hamilton County
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  Speaker 2: Sheriff's Office did volunteer and I did accept to come
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  Speaker 2: out to my house and do an assessment of my
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  Speaker 2: house if if there was a threat that was you know, imminent,
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  Speaker 2: they would come and they would sit in front of
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  Speaker 2: my house in the squad car if I wanted that.
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  Speaker 2: But again, you can't live that way. You can't live
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  Speaker 2: your life that way. And justice cannot be thwarted because
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  Speaker 2: of this. If we allow terrorists to sort of win,
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  Speaker 2: if we cave to them, then you just get more
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  Speaker 2: of it. And so we have to be brave and
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  Speaker 2: we have to stand up.
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  Speaker 1: Excellent point. It's going to ask you about that. I
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  Speaker 1: think maybe the reason for this increase in threats to
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  Speaker 1: the likes of judges and others politicians.
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  Speaker 2: I imagine a part of this as well.
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  Speaker 1: Is because quite often those threats bear fruit and they
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  Speaker 1: ultimately can get their way. They'll either get lenient justice,
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  Speaker 1: they will be found not guilty, even if they're deserving
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  Speaker 1: a guilt, although that will be a bench trial, not
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  Speaker 1: a jury trial. But they see people rioting in the streets,
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  Speaker 1: like Black Lives Matter goes out and says all police
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  Speaker 1: are evil, and big corporations start writing them checks. That's
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  Speaker 1: a sign of victory for those who make those types
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  Speaker 1: of threats.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean you see them protesting out in front
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  Speaker 2: of Supreme Court justices homes, indeed, and so basically they're
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  Speaker 2: trying to get their way through the threat and intimidation,
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  Speaker 2: and justice cannot work that way. Justice has to be blond,
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  Speaker 2: and it can't be done because I'm afraid of somebody,
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  Speaker 2: or I'm afraid of the consequences of what is the
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  Speaker 2: correct decision. And sometimes the correct decision is people need
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  Speaker 2: to go to prison. Sometimes it's they need treatment. But
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  Speaker 2: every case is its own individual.
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  Speaker 1: Case, and that's what a good judge does. Each case
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  Speaker 1: is different. It's evaluated differently. The circumstances are weighed, the
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  Speaker 1: under given the who the defendant is, and what the
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  Speaker 1: circumstances are in front of the court that day, the
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  Speaker 1: facts underlying the crime that's been committed. But it takes
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  Speaker 1: responsible men like you to make sure that the system
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  Speaker 1: still works and to the extent these threats have any
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  Speaker 1: impact on any judge, this is I mean, I can't
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  Speaker 1: see anything, anything at all but bad coming out of this.
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  Speaker 1: We got to stand up to it. Let's see, we
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  Speaker 1: can't figure out how we go about doing that. One
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: more with Common Police Judge Christopher McDowell got to take
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: quick break here at seven forty seven to fifty five
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: KERCIT talk station and it's strongly encourage you to get
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: in touch with Zimmer Heating and Cooling, the best station
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: if you have a per CD talk station, Bright Towns
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: with Judge Christopher mcdowan studio talking about the well, the
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: trials and tribulations of being a judge in this hot headed,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: angry world we live in, and of course societal deterioration,
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: as he pointed out people coming in in sweatpants. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: you know, I practice law. You had to wear a
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: suit and tie, and you had to wear a suit
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  Speaker 1: and tie, and your clients were always responsible for, you know,
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  Speaker 1: looking good. It was for their own benefit. Me.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: You go in, you have a nice appearance.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: The judge is probably gonna look at more favorably on
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  Speaker 1: you than if you've got what would you see, we say,
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  Speaker 1: in a scarfaced T shirt on one drug defendant in
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  Speaker 1: your courtroom? Oh yeah, Oh that makes sense speaking of drugs,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: since we were talking off air about it, and I'm
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: not sure that you and I can come up with
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: a quick solution for what ails society along those lines,
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  Speaker 1: but suffice it to say, it's crept into your courtroom.
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  Speaker 1: You have been threatened, and your family has been threatened
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  Speaker 1: with physical violence, death. Even I like to think since
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  Speaker 1: you sentenced that man to prison in spite of the threats,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: nothing followed up. Did you hear any follow up threats?
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  Speaker 1: Or because you sentenced me, you are going to get
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: it now that kind of thing, or did it just
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: go to go away?
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: The deputy sheriffs took care of the matter. He was
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: in room A. He was arraigned. Judge Josh Burkowitz gave
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: him a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars bond.
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  Speaker 1: He's a good guy.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: Judge Burkowitz is a fantastic man. I know, I know.
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  Speaker 2: It's a huge loss to the judiciary.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: It was a tragic loss. And of course, if he
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: was in front of Judge Silverstein's she probably would have
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: let him out with no bond. Oh our bond, right
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: own recognizance, And they're in illustrates. Another problem is it
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: that they want society to deteriorate. I mean they put
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: the entire public at large in jeopardy when dangerous, demonstrably
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: violent with long record individuals are allowed out with own
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: recognisance bonds.
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  Speaker 2: It's a matter of where your focus is. If your
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: focus is on protecting society, then you issue a heavy,
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  Speaker 2: strong bond to make sure that this person does not
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: get out and hurt other people. If your focus is
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: on the individual, on the defendant, you know, what does
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  Speaker 2: this defendant need, Oh, he doesn't have a job. Is
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: he can't make the bond, so we're going to not
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: give him a cash bond. It's the focus is different.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: The focus is on the defendant and what can we
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: do to help the defendant versus what can we do
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  Speaker 2: to protect society. It's an entirely different mindset.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: It really is well, and I would say the key
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  Speaker 1: leg of law enforcement is the prosecution and punishment is
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: the deterrence to other people doing the same thing. You know, sorry,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: it sucks with you. You had a bad life, but
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: you've violated someone's rights. You harmed them, you killed them,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: you stab them, whatever the case may be, You're going
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  Speaker 1: to be the illustration and the example for the rest
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  Speaker 1: of the people out in the world.
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  Speaker 2: To not do it.
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  Speaker 1: You're going to jail.
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  Speaker 2: That's right. And it's the same thing for people who
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: violate probation. If you have terms and conditions of your
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: probation and you violate those terms and conditions, there has
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: to be a consequence. I can't just continue to put
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: you on probation again and again, sends you back into
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: the community. At some point we have to say you're
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: not amenable to probation. And so what we need to
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: do is separate you from society. To protect society from
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: people who are violent and who are not going to
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: change their ways. People who just want to do drugs,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: want to harm people.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Well, real quick here, since we're almost out a time,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Judge McDowell, I guess everything old is new again. Off
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: the air, you said that has been a huge increase
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: in powder cocaine cases. It's like nineteen eighties again, it
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: is nineteen eighty eight in my courtroom.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: What is old is new? I have seen a tremendous
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: increase in powder cocaine. At first I thought it was
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: an anomaly. Now I'd say almost every day I see cocaine,
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: and I also have to ask is this powder cocaine
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: or crack cocaine? And I'm also seeing a slight increase
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: too and crack cocaine.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: That was the way of in the eighties. It started
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: with powder, it turned into crack and it was all
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: the rage, and here we are back again. You would
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: think that the presence of fentanyl in literally every street
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: drug out there would prevent people from going out and
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: buying street drugs because oh, that's right, you're going to die.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You would think. What's really scary is college students. Yeah,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: college students who think they're taking an adderall or a
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: xanax or something and they go into their dorm room
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: and they never wake up again. Such a tragedy because
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: it's laced with fentanyl.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Well, hopefully that the Trump policies on the border and
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: the efforts to eliminate drugs coming into our country will
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: bear fruit. But I think we have no one to
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: blame about ourselves for our drug consumption. In large part,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: there's always the demand there and there's always someone willing
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: to fill it. Judge McDowell, a great time having in
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: the studio. Real pleasure for that. I'm for you to
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: come in. Always enjoy talking face to face with folks,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: and I appreciate you standing up for the justice system
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  Speaker 1: and being the illustration of the type of judge we
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: need these days so desperately. And keep up the great work.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: You always got a former venue here to talk about
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: what's going on in the court system. I appreciate you
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: coming back.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Happy New Year to you. Seven fifty seven. Right now
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: inside scoop a bright Barton News Caleb Caruz. I haven't
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: talked with him, but he is a former Venezuelan native
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: fled to the country.