Latest / THE WORLD'S BEST PREACHER / CBS This Morning - Bishop Jakes - The Potter’s House of Dallas

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CBS This Morning - Bishop Jakes - The Potter’s House of Dallas · THE WORLD'S BEST PREACHER

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: New selection for CBS This Morning reads, it's a New
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: York Times bestseller called Let It Go, Forgive So You
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Can Be Forgiven by T.D.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Jakes.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: The book comes out in paperback tomorrow. It's published by
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Simon & Schuster, which is a division of CBS. Bishop T.D.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Jakes leads the Dallas megachurch Potter's House and joins us
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: at the table this morning. It's really good to have
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: you here, Bishop.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: I'm excited to be here.
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: I'm excited, too.
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  Speaker 1: You said that forgiveness really is a sign of strength,
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  Speaker 1: not a sign of weakness. And a lot of people
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: don't get that.
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  Speaker 4: I think we have it programmed backwards. We think that
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  Speaker 4: we're stronger if we're more angry and resentful. But it
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: really takes a lot of strength to move forward, to
• 0:36
  Speaker 4: go on with your life.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: I have a you are dead to me list with
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: one person on it. Is that the same as forgiveness?
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: I was telling my daughter about your book, and she
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  Speaker 1: said to me last night, Mom, maybe you better keep reading.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Because I'm thinking a dead to me list, is that
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  Speaker 1: as effective as forgiveness?
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: I don't think it's so important that you put the
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: person on the list as you put the incident on
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  Speaker 4: the list. Yeah, because when you put the person on
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: the list, you don't give people the privilege to change.
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: And people do change.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Is everybody capable of being forgiven? Should everybody deserve a
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: chance at being forgiven?
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  Speaker 4: It's really not about the person deserving a chance. Forgiveness
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: is a gift you give yourself. It frees you from
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  Speaker 4: the path and liberates you so that you can move on,
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: giving your whole energy to what is before you rather
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: than what is behind you.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: It's an interesting, forgiveness is an interesting, I grew up
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  Speaker 3: in the Catholic faith, and that's something we talk about
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  Speaker 3: certainly in the Catholic faith as well, faith as well
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: as forgiveness. How do you do it, though?
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: Yes. You know, I think a lot of times we
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: have trouble doing it because we associate forgiveness with emotions. Really,
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: it's a conscious decision, and it's something that you give
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  Speaker 4: yourself so that you can move forward. It announces to
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  Speaker 4: yourself that what is in front of you is more
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  Speaker 4: important than what was behind you.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Somebody once said, forgive but don't forget.
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: I don't think we can forget. To ask yourself to
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: forget is unreasonable unless you've got amnesia or something. But
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: you can remember the incident without caring the pain. It's
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: much like having a scar that doesn't hurt anymore. You
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: know that it did happen. Take what's good out of it,
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: what you learned from it, and leave what's bad from
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  Speaker 4: it and move forward so that you can progress.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: And remember, it does not exonerate the perpetrator. I think
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: that is such an important thing.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Clearly, I have some issues.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Clearly, I have some issues at the table this morning.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I think people are on this one. It was three,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: but now it's down to one. What happened to the
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: other two?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I forgave.
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  Speaker 4: You let it go.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: I let it go.
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: You have served as spiritual advisor to President Bush, President Clinton,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: President Obama. I know last year you were involved in
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: the inauguration church service. How important is it for the
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: president to have faith?
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  Speaker 4: I think if he does, I think it's important. I
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: think it's important. I think it's a very stressful job.
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: Our demands and expectations are beyond human comprehension. And to
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: be able to submit to a higher power, I think,
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: is important when possible.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I ask this with great curiosity. Tell me
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: the source of your strength and why you seem to
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: have been so successful at what you do.
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: That's an interesting question. I think some parts of it
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: are due to my transparency and my ability to connect
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: with people. I think you have to love people. It's
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: more to it than loving God. I think you have
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: to love God, but you also have to love people
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  Speaker 4: and be curious about people, to remain a student of
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: life all of your life and not become so informed
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  Speaker 4: that you miss the opportunities to be.
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  Speaker 4: Increased by your involvement, not only with professors, but with children,
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  Speaker 4: with everybody, to watch life. I'm really a voyeur of
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: life itself.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: As a bishop and so close to your parishioners, what's
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  Speaker 3: your biggest concern right now with people that you counsel?
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: What's your biggest worry?
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  Speaker 4: Everything is moving so fast. We're receiving information so quickly.
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  Speaker 4: We're inundated with things that are perpetrated to be true
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  Speaker 4: that have really not been examined. So we build monuments
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  Speaker 4: of ideas based on nothing. And I think that we
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  Speaker 4: stop reading, we stop thinking. We go for the easy, downgrade,
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  Speaker 4: simple solutions to complicated problems.
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  Speaker 2: What was the hardest thing for you to forgive?
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  Speaker 4: Hardest thing for me to forgive.
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  Speaker 1: Well, you share personal experiences.
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  Speaker 4: I had several, but I'm trying to think what was
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  Speaker 4: the hardest. Raising children was very difficult for me. In
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: my book, I tell several stories. That adolescent stage really
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: threw me for a loop because I really thought it
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  Speaker 4: was going to last. The first few children, you know,
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  Speaker 4: you get locked into that painful process. And then after
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  Speaker 4: you get, well, we have five. So by the fourth
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  Speaker 4: or fifth one, we relax and say, oh, it's just
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  Speaker 4: a stage they're going through. But we really went through
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: some little things that hurt. I think the greatest pains
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: are incurred by the people you have the greatest love for.
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  Speaker 2: The other thing I'm interested in is that when you
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: counsel with presidents, I mean, how does that go?
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  Speaker 4: It's not really as dramatic as it sounds. Most generally,
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  Speaker 4: it's an opportunity to have prayer with the president, if
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  Speaker 4: there are any things that they want to discuss, to
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  Speaker 4: be available to discuss. To give people an opportunity to
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: say something to someone and know that they won't hear
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  Speaker 4: it again is a great gift to anyone, particularly someone
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: who is highly visible.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: And you said it's never too late to forgive. You know,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: the big story in the news is Lance Armstrong. And
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of people are struggling with to forgive, not
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: to forgive. I think he's trying to make a step
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: towards forgiveness. How do you see that whole situation?
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  Speaker 4: Well, the first thing I think it is incumbent upon
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  Speaker 4: us to forgive because if we don't forgive other people,
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  Speaker 4: we can't receive forgiveness. We can't really embrace the notion
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: of forgiveness. But I do want to make a very
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: strong distinction between forgiveness and trust. See, the onus of
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: forgiveness rests upon me because I'm the one that's wounded.
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: But the onus of trust rests upon the perpetrator. You
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: have to reestablish trust. And with the case of Lance Armstrong,
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: he has to rebuild trust by consistency, by acknowledgement, by...
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: admitting that he was wrong and being consistently right long
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  Speaker 4: enough that he builds up a dossier of trust through
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  Speaker 4: which we can reinvent ourselves.
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  Speaker 3: All right.
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  Speaker 1: Always good to see you, Bishop T.D.
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  Speaker 2: Jakes.
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  Speaker 3: And next month, T.D.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Jakes will be back with us. To get the story
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: on CBS This Morning Reads, just go to cbsthismorning.com. And tomorrow,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: we'll show you the big changes headed for the nation's
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: best-known and most prestigious dog show.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: Be right back.