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Trump (Literally) Destroys White House · Pod Save America

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
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Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
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Speaker 3: And I'm Alex Wagner.
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Speaker 1: On today's show, we're going to talk Trump's demand that
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Speaker 1: the Justice Department pay him $ 230 million, handing over the
1:38
Speaker 1: keys to our elections to election deniers, the demolition of
1:41
Speaker 1: the East Wing, the latest with Graham Plattner in Maine,
1:44
Speaker 1: and all the elections coming up in less than two weeks.
1:47
Speaker 1: Then you'll hear Tommy's conversation with Denise Ferriosi from the
1:50
Speaker 1: Pipeline Fund about building a deeper Democratic bench. and why
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Speaker 1: it's so important for people to run for local office.
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Speaker 1: But first, Alex, welcome back to the show.
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Speaker 3: Oh, guys, I'm thrilled. Now, contractually, Dan is supposed to
2:02
Speaker 3: be in the same room with me, so I'll have
2:05
Speaker 3: to talk to HR about that.
2:06
Speaker 2: Well, if you had come to the West Coast, then
2:08
Speaker 2: we could have done that.
2:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay. All right. Well, you know, we're working on
2:11
Speaker 3: some kinks.
2:11
Speaker 1: I would love nothing more than to have both of
2:12
Speaker 1: you sitting around this table with me.
2:14
Speaker 3: We would love to be. We would love to be.
2:15
Speaker 3: I'm happy to be here because it's a big day
2:17
Speaker 3: for me.
2:18
Speaker 2: Huge day!
2:19
Speaker 3: As a cousin to the Crooked family.
2:21
Speaker 1: Tell us all about it. You have your new podcast,
2:24
Speaker 1: Runaway Country. Yes.
2:25
Speaker 3: Runaway Country is live. The first episode is out. For
2:29
Speaker 3: people who have missed my shameless and unending promotion of it,
2:32
Speaker 3: I'll just give you a little, like, taste. It is
2:35
Speaker 3: all about hearing from people who are at the center
2:37
Speaker 3: of these big headline stories that in many ways have
2:39
Speaker 3: become abstract because there are so damn many of them.
2:43
Speaker 3: And this week we are talking to an immigration court
2:46
Speaker 3: judge who was recently fired because Trump is firing all
2:49
Speaker 3: the people that know about immigration law. and who has
2:51
Speaker 3: had firsthand experience dealing with ICE agents in her courtroom
2:55
Speaker 3: and outside her courtroom, has had to adjudicate wrenching cases
2:59
Speaker 3: as sobbing and screaming is heard through the walls on
3:02
Speaker 3: the other side, has had a case log of thousands
3:06
Speaker 3: of cases. There, I think, are only 600 of these
3:08
Speaker 3: judges left. They have to deal with 3.8 million immigration cases.
3:13
Speaker 3: And it's really a story from, you know, a human
3:16
Speaker 3: firsthand perspective about the, you know, what Trump is trying
3:20
Speaker 3: to do to our system of due process. So we
3:23
Speaker 3: have Judge Anand Patit, who's our, you know, person giving
3:28
Speaker 3: us that visceral emotional storytelling. And then some really high
3:31
Speaker 3: quality analysis from the great Andrew Weissman, who is himself
3:35
Speaker 3: a target of Trump as a former member of the
3:37
Speaker 3: Department of Justice and talks a lot about kind of
3:39
Speaker 3: what we can expect in terms of rule of law
3:42
Speaker 3: and its erosion. in the Trump years. It's a very
3:45
Speaker 3: good conversation. I'm proud of it. I hope everybody likes it.
3:48
Speaker 3: And you'll leave angry, but maybe inspired to try and
3:52
Speaker 3: do something about it.
3:54
Speaker 1: I absolutely love the first episode. I loved the idea
4:00
Speaker 1: for the podcast and knew that you would crush it.
4:02
Speaker 1: But when I listened to the first episode, it reminded
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Speaker 1: me that, especially in the second Trump administration, there's just
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Speaker 1: so much news, so many headlines. And to me, What's
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Speaker 1: broken through and really made me angriest and inspired me
4:17
Speaker 1: are these like individual stories of people who've been affected
4:20
Speaker 1: by what's happening because I think they can get lost
4:22
Speaker 1: in just the discussion of the headlines. And sitting down
4:25
Speaker 1: and listening to the judge speak and what she's gone through,
4:29
Speaker 1: what she went through, what's happening in a lot of
4:31
Speaker 1: these courtrooms, it was just– it was fascinating and raging.
4:35
Speaker 1: And it did inspire me to keep going.
4:37
Speaker 3: Well, and also maybe I think we just need some
4:40
Speaker 3: storytelling too. to help us understand the moment, right? It's
4:43
Speaker 3: just like, it's all so, it's become kind of abstract.
4:46
Speaker 3: That's for those of us lucky enough not to be
4:48
Speaker 3: affected directly by, you know, family members getting snatched off
4:51
Speaker 3: the street or losing their health insurance or whatever the
4:53
Speaker 3: issue is. But I think it's really important. I know
4:55
Speaker 3: I have a lot of friends who are like, I
4:57
Speaker 3: don't even know how to parse it. You know, I
4:59
Speaker 3: don't know how to think about it. And I think
5:01
Speaker 3: one way is just on the human level. So that's
5:04
Speaker 3: Runaway Country, guys.
5:05
Speaker 1: New episodes of Runaway Country drop every Thursday. on YouTube
5:10
Speaker 1: and wherever you get your podcasts. So go ahead right now,
5:13
Speaker 1: go subscribe while you're listening to this so you don't
5:15
Speaker 1: miss an episode. You'll thank us later. We're excited, Alex.
5:19
Speaker 3: Thanks, buddies.
5:20
Speaker 1: All right, let's get to the news. People are paying
5:22
Speaker 1: higher prices thanks to Trump's tariffs. Inflation's on the rise.
5:25
Speaker 1: Unemployment's on the rise. Health insurance is about to get
5:28
Speaker 1: a lot more expensive for millions. And we are recording
5:31
Speaker 1: this on day 23 of a government shutdown that has
5:34
Speaker 1: left hundreds of thousands of people out of work. Many
5:37
Speaker 1: who won't get their jobs back because the White House
5:40
Speaker 1: has decided to use the shutdown as an excuse to
5:44
Speaker 1: just fire people. But good news. Thanks to the presidency,
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Speaker 1: Donald Trump has never been richer. And now he's demanding
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Speaker 1: that taxpayers cut him a personal check for $ 230 million.
6:00
Speaker 1: The New York Times reports that Trump filed complaints against
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Speaker 1: the federal government for investigating his many alleged crimes. And
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Speaker 1: now the federal government, run by Donald Trump, is likely
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Speaker 1: to settle those claims in Donald Trump's favor. Surprise, surprise.
6:16
Speaker 1: To the tune of up to $ 230 million paid for
6:21
Speaker 1: by all of us. Trump was asked about this novel
6:24
Speaker 1: arrangement in the Oval this week. Here he is.
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Speaker 4: I don't know what the numbers are. I don't even
6:28
Speaker 4: talk to them about it. All I know is that
6:31
Speaker 4: They would owe me a lot of money, but I'm
6:33
Speaker 4: not looking for money. I'd give it to charity or something.
6:35
Speaker 4: I would give it to charity. With the country, it's
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Speaker 4: interesting because I'm the one that makes the decision, right? And,
6:41
Speaker 4: you know, that decision would have to go across my desk.
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Speaker 4: And it's awfully strange to make a decision where I'm
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Speaker 4: paying myself. But I was damaged very greatly.
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Speaker 1: And any money that I would get, I would.
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Speaker 4: Give to charity.
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Speaker 1: It's awfully strange to be making a decision where I
6:56
Speaker 1: pay myself. And yet I will go ahead. And do
6:59
Speaker 1: it anyway. But rest assured, I'm sure he will be
7:03
Speaker 1: giving it to a charity that all the American taxpayers
7:07
Speaker 1: probably support, right? Mind-boggling corruption here. We haven't even gotten
7:10
Speaker 1: to Trump's pardon of the crypto-terrorist financer who made his
7:14
Speaker 1: family rich. We'll get there. But I'm sure a lot
7:16
Speaker 1: of people are wondering, how the hell can Trump just
7:18
Speaker 1: raid the Treasury like this? Dan?
7:21
Speaker 2: Well, technically, he can't.
7:24
Speaker 5: I know.
7:25
Speaker 2: this word's going to feel very 2017, but do you
7:27
Speaker 2: remember emoluments? No, I knew it.
7:31
Speaker 1: Oh, boy. Old school. Early seasons.
7:33
Speaker 2: I know, but there was a lot of- Hatch Act.
7:37
Speaker 2: I mean, Hatch Act is no longer- Ongoing. And as
7:40
Speaker 2: we will point out on this podcast many times, Trump
7:42
Speaker 2: is immune from the Hatch Act. But there was a
7:46
Speaker 2: lot of discussion in 2017 about foreign governments buying hotel
7:50
Speaker 2: rooms at the Trump, at the recently- departed Trump Hotel
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Speaker 2: as a way to put money in Trump's pocket. That
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Speaker 2: worked his way to the courts, did not happen. There
8:00
Speaker 2: is another emoluments clause, which is very specific to domestic emoluments,
8:03
Speaker 2: which says the President of the United States cannot receive
8:06
Speaker 2: money beyond his salary, as designated by Congress, from the
8:10
Speaker 2: federal government or the state government. This would be a
8:13
Speaker 2: very clear and obvious violation of that. So that is one. Second,
8:19
Speaker 2: I mean, he's going to try to do it. Well,
8:21
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court would have to twist itself in some
8:23
Speaker 2: relatively unprecedented knots to let him keep this money. They
8:26
Speaker 2: might do that. They might not. But just the process
8:29
Speaker 2: by which this happens is unbelievable because the specific Department
8:32
Speaker 2: of Justice's manual says that any sort of reparations award
8:37
Speaker 2: like this of more than $ 4 million must be approved
8:39
Speaker 2: by either the Associate Attorney General or the Deputy Attorney General.
8:43
Speaker 2: The Associate Attorney General... is a man who is a
8:45
Speaker 2: favorite lawyer of Trump allies and defended a lot of
8:48
Speaker 2: them through all of these cases. And the deputy attorney
8:50
Speaker 2: general is Trump's personal attorney. So seems pretty cool.
8:53
Speaker 1: So it seems like he's got a good chance.
8:55
Speaker 2: It seems like he's put the right people in place.
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Speaker 1: Alex, what'd you make of this story?
8:59
Speaker 3: Well, okay, a couple of things. One is like, if
9:01
Speaker 3: you're one of the stooges that Trump's installed at the
9:03
Speaker 3: Department of Justice, I feel like basically everything you're doing
9:07
Speaker 3: at this point, you know, sort of secretly in the
9:09
Speaker 3: back of your head might be unconstitutional, could actually get
9:12
Speaker 3: you indicted. But you're just gunning for a pardon. So
9:15
Speaker 3: if you're Todd Blanche, you're like, you know, I'm in already.
9:19
Speaker 3: So I can't risk not getting the pardon. So I'm
9:22
Speaker 3: all I'm all in. If I'm in for a penny,
9:24
Speaker 3: I'm in for a pound. That's a that's a bad
9:26
Speaker 3: incentive structure. I'm just going to stay for people who
9:28
Speaker 3: are the nation's top law enforcement officials. The other piece
9:32
Speaker 3: is I think people should understand why Trump is even
9:35
Speaker 3: able to do this. The law exists for Americans who
9:40
Speaker 3: are all, I don't know, unlawfully detained by ICE. They're
9:44
Speaker 3: the victims of uses of excessive force from federal law
9:46
Speaker 3: enforcement officers. And, you know, there are stories like gutting
9:50
Speaker 3: stories of people who are I mean, you can imagine
9:52
Speaker 3: in this season of ICE snatching and detention, people who
9:56
Speaker 3: are American citizens who are, you know, pepper sprayers. by ICE,
10:00
Speaker 3: whose cars are destroyed by ICE, whose lives are in
10:03
Speaker 3: some ways traumatized by ICE, who then try and use
10:06
Speaker 3: this law to seek some kind of reparations. It is
10:09
Speaker 3: very hard to get any money from the federal government
10:13
Speaker 3: because you were wronged. And the idea that Donald Trump
10:16
Speaker 3: is going to try and get $ 250 million from the
10:19
Speaker 3: American taxpayer, which, by the way, John, he suggested, I
10:23
Speaker 3: believe today, may go to pay for the new 90,000
10:27
Speaker 3: square foot ballroom at the White House.
10:30
Speaker 1: Yes.
10:30
Speaker 3: Great use of taxpayer funds is just it is appalling
10:35
Speaker 3: even for Donald Trump. Right. It's a mashup of like
10:37
Speaker 3: the two worst things he's done this week that he
10:39
Speaker 3: could be suing the Justice Department to pay for a
10:42
Speaker 3: fascist monstrosity attached to the White House residents. I mean,
10:45
Speaker 3: it's just And the asymmetry of who could get the
10:52
Speaker 3: money and who doesn't get the money is decidedly un-American.
10:55
Speaker 3: I will say I believe, and I'm not an expert
10:57
Speaker 3: in this, he can get the money, he can get
11:00
Speaker 3: the payout, and we won't know until the end of
11:03
Speaker 3: the year when the sort of receipts are tallied effectively
11:06
Speaker 3: and the DOJ has to report out its numbers.
11:10
Speaker 1: It can be basically a secret settlement when it actually happens.
11:14
Speaker 2: They could theoretically also defer the payment until after his
11:17
Speaker 2: presidency to get around the emoluments clause.
11:20
Speaker 5: Right.
11:21
Speaker 1: The Times did a follow-up story actually talking about sort
11:24
Speaker 1: of the double standard here. And they mentioned George Redis,
11:29
Speaker 1: who's the Iraq war veteran from out here in California,
11:33
Speaker 1: who ICE detained for three days. I've talked about him.
11:36
Speaker 1: Tim Miller interviewed him on Bulwark. It was a horrifying story,
11:40
Speaker 1: just taken away from his family for three days. And
11:43
Speaker 1: for no reason, never charged with anything. And he has
11:46
Speaker 1: filed one of these claims and has not heard at
11:50
Speaker 1: all back from the government. And if no one gets
11:53
Speaker 1: back to him within six months, he can sue under
11:55
Speaker 1: the Federal Tort Reform Act. But there is this loophole
11:59
Speaker 1: there where federal agents and federal officers have like pretty
12:03
Speaker 1: broad latitude and discretion to act sort of like in
12:08
Speaker 1: the line of duty here. And it's like it's basically
12:10
Speaker 1: like immunity. And which is why so few people get
12:14
Speaker 1: these claims heard. But Donald Trump's going to get it.
12:16
Speaker 1: He's not going to get it heard. He's just going
12:18
Speaker 1: to just settle it because he's in charge of the government.
12:21
Speaker 1: And his former defense lawyers are running the Department of Justice.
12:26
Speaker 1: It's crazy. It's the worst example of corruption yet, I think.
12:30
Speaker 3: Well, it does bring to mind, like, why even bother
12:32
Speaker 3: with the, like, you know, why even pretend that this
12:37
Speaker 3: is anything other than stealing from the government. Like, Andrew
12:40
Speaker 3: Weissman told me on the podcast this week, like, why
12:42
Speaker 3: not just go for Fort Knox? Just, like, go in
12:44
Speaker 3: there and take some gold bars, right? Like, that's basically
12:46
Speaker 3: what's happening here.
12:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, that'll be year six. As I mentioned, Trump isn't
12:51
Speaker 1: the only convicted criminal profiting off his connections. Chengpeng Zhao,
12:55
Speaker 1: also known as CZ, the founder of Binance Crypto Exchange,
12:59
Speaker 1: he'd been convicted of failing to report financial transactions from
13:03
Speaker 1: terrorist organizations like Hamas, Al-Qaeda, and ISIS... that were using
13:08
Speaker 1: Binance to launder money. Then Binance made a multi-billion dollar
13:14
Speaker 1: deal with the Trump family crypto company. CZ tweeted that
13:19
Speaker 1: he wouldn't mind a pardon. And now it looks like
13:22
Speaker 1: CZ and Binance are going to be back in business.
13:25
Speaker 1: Win for Binance, win for the terrorist money launderers. Most importantly,
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Speaker 1: a win for Donald Trump. He was asked about this
13:32
Speaker 1: by Caitlin Collins of CNN at the White House today.
13:36
Speaker 1: Let's listen.
13:37
Speaker 3: Can you explain why you chose to pardon him? And
13:39
Speaker 3: did it have anything to do with his involvement in
13:41
Speaker 3: your family's... Which one?
13:41
Speaker 1: Who is that?
13:42
Speaker 3: The founder of Binance. He has an involvement in your.
13:44
Speaker 4: Own family's crypto business.
13:45
Speaker 5: The recent one, yes.
13:46
Speaker 4: A lot of people say that he wasn't guilty of anything.
13:48
Speaker 4: He served four months in jail. And they say that
13:51
Speaker 4: he was not guilty of anything. That what he did... Well,
13:54
Speaker 4: you don't know much about crypto. You know nothing about...
13:57
Speaker 4: You know nothing about nothing. You have fake news.
14:00
Speaker 5: But I've been.
14:01
Speaker 4: Told by a lot of support. He had a lot
14:03
Speaker 4: of support. And they said that what he did... is
14:07
Speaker 4: not even a crime. It wasn't a crime, that he
14:09
Speaker 4: was persecuted by the Biden administration. And so I gave
14:14
Speaker 4: him a pardon at the request of a lot of
14:16
Speaker 4: very good people.
14:16
Speaker 1: Do you think a lot of those good people were Eric,
14:20
Speaker 1: Don Jr., Hamas, ISIS? Not a crime, not a crime.
14:27
Speaker 1: Allowing your crypto company to be a crypto exchange, to
14:33
Speaker 1: double as a money laundering operation for Al-Qaeda, ISIS, and Hamas.
14:38
Speaker 1: Not a crime?
14:39
Speaker 2: I mean, when you go back and read the files
14:42
Speaker 2: on this and the evidence, it was just, they were
14:45
Speaker 2: explicitly trying to hide evidence. I mean, they're obviously guilty here.
14:49
Speaker 2: This is too challenging. We can get to the corruption
14:51
Speaker 2: of it in a second, but it's going to, CZ
14:55
Speaker 2: and Binance will be back in the United States. and
14:57
Speaker 2: it's going to end the Department of Justice monitoring of
14:59
Speaker 2: the program almost certainly. And then there's a separate monitoring
15:01
Speaker 2: agreement where the Treasury Department, the people who do terrorist
15:04
Speaker 2: financing there, are monitoring how Binance does its activities. That
15:08
Speaker 2: does not end on its own from this part, but
15:11
Speaker 2: all it requires is Scott Bessett to just say it
15:14
Speaker 2: can end. And so they're like fully back in business.
15:16
Speaker 3: He's such a stand-up guy though, right?
15:17
Speaker 2: Scott Bessett.
15:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
15:19
Speaker 2: I would trust it. He's the bulwark. He'll stand in there.
15:23
Speaker 1: Do we not care about... terrorist financing uh anymore i
15:29
Speaker 1: thought i thought i thought we were uh going after
15:32
Speaker 1: antifa and not just not just the violent antifa soldiers
15:37
Speaker 1: in the streets but all of their all of the
15:39
Speaker 1: groups funding them right i thought that was a big
15:42
Speaker 1: big part of uh the trump vance agenda here no alex.
15:46
Speaker 3: Uh the antifa stuff is just so they can tap
15:48
Speaker 3: your phone john um yeah well uh which i should
15:52
Speaker 3: joke about because yeah um You know, a quarter of
15:57
Speaker 3: the FBI agents who used to deal with cyber crimes, counterterrorism,
16:01
Speaker 3: they've been moved over to immigration enforcement. Like, you talk
16:05
Speaker 3: about the disassembly of the national security infrastructure, and it
16:08
Speaker 3: has been conducted weirdly in the shadows. I mean, even
16:12
Speaker 3: though it's clear what's happening, there hasn't been paid nearly
16:15
Speaker 3: enough attention. This is just another plank in all of that.
16:18
Speaker 3: I mean, like, we're now making it much easier for
16:21
Speaker 3: terrorists to launder money and fund terrorist operations like on
16:25
Speaker 3: all levels at the same time the reason trump is
16:28
Speaker 3: doing this is because what is it world liberty financial
16:31
Speaker 3: his crypto company has been grossly enriched by cz and
16:35
Speaker 3: co and like you know we talk about what it's
16:38
Speaker 3: going to look like if and when trump ever leaves
16:40
Speaker 3: the white house he's going to be you know at
16:42
Speaker 3: least on paper a very rich man because he has
16:45
Speaker 3: established a full-blown kleptocracy i mean that is all this
16:48
Speaker 3: is like you cannot look at the you know corporations
16:52
Speaker 3: that are funding the destruction of the East Wing and
16:54
Speaker 3: the pardoning of these crypto bros as anything other than
16:57
Speaker 3: just personal enrichment on the DOJ suit. I mean, all
17:00
Speaker 3: of it's just so that he can get rich. It
17:02
Speaker 3: is full-blown cryptocracy at this point.
17:04
Speaker 2: I mean, the fact pattern here is stunning, right? Which is,
17:07
Speaker 2: World Libya Financial debuts this new coin called USD1. Binance
17:12
Speaker 2: then gets a $ 2 billion investment that they want paid
17:15
Speaker 2: for in USD1 coins. So that's a giant boost for
17:21
Speaker 2: WorldLibby Financial and this new coin. Much of the growth
17:24
Speaker 2: in the USD1 coin has also come from its presence
17:28
Speaker 2: on a trading platform called PancakeSwap, which is administered by Binance.
17:33
Speaker 2: CZ tweets out that like any felon, he would welcome
17:36
Speaker 2: a pardon. CZ then hires one of Donald Trump Jr.
17:39
Speaker 2: 's best friends as his lobbyist. CZ gets the pardon.
17:44
Speaker 3: It's not complicated.
17:46
Speaker 2: No, you don't have to know anything about crypto to
17:48
Speaker 2: understand exactly what happens. Give billions of dollars to Trump's family.
17:51
Speaker 2: Get a pardon.
17:53
Speaker 1: Yeah. Have some connections. Reach out to the right people.
17:55
Speaker 1: Have enough money. You can commit any crime you want.
17:59
Speaker 1: And yet, if the government treats you poorly, if it
18:04
Speaker 1: abuses you, if it breaks the law to hurt you,
18:07
Speaker 1: then you are screwed.
18:08
Speaker 3: Or if you're on a boat in the Caribbean or
18:10
Speaker 3: in the Pacific.
18:11
Speaker 1: Do not be on boats.
18:12
Speaker 3: Don't be on a boat.
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Speaker 1: recover faster, perform better. Now, you might be thinking all
20:05
Speaker 1: this corruption might make voters pretty angry and they may
20:08
Speaker 1: take that out on the president and his party in
20:10
Speaker 1: future elections. Unfortunately, the president has thought of that, too.
20:14
Speaker 1: Here's another Times story from this week. Quote, election officials
20:17
Speaker 1: from nearly all 50 states gathered on a call last
20:20
Speaker 1: month with the Homeland Security Department's point person on election integrity.
20:25
Speaker 1: And quote, many of them left alarmed because the official,
20:29
Speaker 1: who is a kooky election denier activist named Heather Honey,
20:33
Speaker 1: talked about rigged voting machines favoring Democrats on this call.
20:37
Speaker 1: During a call with election denier activists in March, right
20:41
Speaker 1: before Honey was appointed, she said that in future elections,
20:45
Speaker 1: Trump could declare a national emergency based on his team's
20:49
Speaker 1: investigation of the 2020 election that would then allow the
20:53
Speaker 1: White House to force new election rules and mandates on
20:57
Speaker 1: states and local governments. Trump himself alluded to this in
21:01
Speaker 1: the Oval this week. Here he is.
21:03
Speaker 4: We can never let what happened in the 2020 election
21:06
Speaker 4: happen again. We just can't let that happen. And so
21:09
Speaker 4: the way we go, I know Cash is working on it,
21:11
Speaker 4: everybody's working on it, and certainly Tulsi's working on it.
21:16
Speaker 4: We can't let that happen again to our country. Look
21:18
Speaker 4: at what's happened.
21:20
Speaker 1: So what do you think Cash and Tulsi are working on, guys? Dan,
21:26
Speaker 1: you think the intelligence director and the FBI director? They're
21:31
Speaker 1: working on– what do they have to do with our elections?
21:34
Speaker 2: This whole story is so bizarre in so many ways.
21:38
Speaker 2: There's like the very clear real problem or immediate problem
21:41
Speaker 2: that long before Donald Trump was making up stories about
21:44
Speaker 2: stolen elections, there were people trying to interfere in our elections,
21:46
Speaker 2: particularly foreign governments. And that's why these jobs exist to
21:50
Speaker 2: try to stop that from happening. We know that Russia, Iran,
21:53
Speaker 2: China have tried to hack into things, interfere with elections.
21:57
Speaker 2: They're going to do that again. And now instead of
21:59
Speaker 2: having actual professionals in the jobs designed to stop them,
22:02
Speaker 2: we have a bunch of fucking morons who believe the
22:04
Speaker 2: dumbest conspiracy theories alive. So that's like a real threat.
22:09
Speaker 2: That is bigger than whatever it is they can do. Now,
22:12
Speaker 2: this person's idea that Trump can declare a national emergency
22:15
Speaker 2: and seize elections, that is not a thing. That's not
22:17
Speaker 2: a thing that can happen. That's not a power he has.
22:20
Speaker 2: The elections are very clearly administered by states, right? They
22:24
Speaker 2: don't have to listen to the federal government on these things.
22:26
Speaker 2: They can't change the rules. They can't suspend the election.
22:29
Speaker 2: That is not something that Trump has the power to do,
22:32
Speaker 2: whether he declares a national emergency or not. The thing
22:34
Speaker 2: that is alarming, and this is where the Kash Patel
22:36
Speaker 2: piece comes in, is in a world in which the
22:39
Speaker 2: Democrats take the House narrowly or take the Senate narrowly,
22:43
Speaker 2: you can see them, with the help of the FBI
22:46
Speaker 2: and the DOJ and the DHS, trumping up, pun intended, investigate,
22:51
Speaker 2: you know, claims of voter fraud and investigations. Like he
22:53
Speaker 2: wanted to seize the voting machines in 2020. His Homeland
22:56
Speaker 2: Secretary would not let him back then. His Homeland Security
22:59
Speaker 2: Secretary will definitely let him this time. And that's where, like,
23:02
Speaker 2: he can't cancel elections, he can't stop the elections, but
23:04
Speaker 2: he has great power to cast doubt on them and
23:07
Speaker 2: mess with the counting of the votes.
23:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, Alex, I heard Andrew Weissman talk to you about
23:12
Speaker 1: this in Runaway Country in the episode about his fear
23:16
Speaker 1: that the DOJ could actually seize the voting machines. Which
23:21
Speaker 1: seems to me like, seems like that should go through
23:24
Speaker 1: court before they get to seize the voting machines, no?
23:26
Speaker 3: Is Aileen Cannon busy? I don't know. I mean, like,
23:29
Speaker 3: I think there's two things to talk about. One is
23:31
Speaker 3: the 2026 midterms. And already we know that there's going
23:34
Speaker 3: to be, I mean, with the redistricting shenanigans, which is
23:39
Speaker 3: to flip into term for what Trump is trying to do.
23:41
Speaker 3: They're already trying to steal that election. But, you know,
23:44
Speaker 3: when you see the presence of National Guard troops, when
23:46
Speaker 3: you see Trump already laying the groundwork for saying, you know,
23:49
Speaker 3: this is a national emergency, we need to send in security. Like,
23:52
Speaker 3: you can see a world in which he tries to
23:54
Speaker 3: fuck with blue cities and states on election day and
23:58
Speaker 3: depress the vote. You can absolutely see ahead of 2028
24:00
Speaker 3: fucking with early and mail-in voting. That's already in the
24:04
Speaker 3: list of demands that these psychos that are now installed
24:07
Speaker 3: in the Trump administration to oversee election integrity, that's already
24:10
Speaker 3: something they're asking for. What's so surprising to me in
24:13
Speaker 3: the reporting on this is that after the 2024 election,
24:17
Speaker 3: rather than like lay down arms and be like, oh, look,
24:19
Speaker 3: Donald Trump got reelected. Like, maybe the system isn't broken.
24:23
Speaker 3: They're newly emboldened to make a set of asks of
24:27
Speaker 3: this president. They're installed in positions of power and they're
24:30
Speaker 3: working behind the scenes to do what they can. I mean,
24:33
Speaker 3: the Times suggests that there could be some kind of
24:35
Speaker 3: federal intrusion into state election results. I'm with Dan. I
24:38
Speaker 3: think it's like a little early to panic about that happening.
24:41
Speaker 3: But I don't think anything's off the table, given what's
24:43
Speaker 3: Where we are, I mean, the brazenness of his immigration
24:46
Speaker 3: dragnets and the lawlessness of the ICE officers and the
24:49
Speaker 3: National Guard troops trying to foment literally a civil war
24:52
Speaker 3: between states. Is it like that far of a stretch
24:55
Speaker 3: to see him doing something on Election Day in a
24:58
Speaker 3: blue city or blue state? I don't think so. And
25:00
Speaker 3: as we've learned from 2020, it's like once you put
25:04
Speaker 3: the– you cannot put the toothpaste back in the tube.
25:06
Speaker 3: Once the poison is out in the air and people
25:08
Speaker 3: believe that something wicked has happened– in a certain precinct,
25:13
Speaker 3: you know, it becomes very difficult to convince people otherwise.
25:16
Speaker 3: And delegitimizing those who are elected to the House, I mean,
25:19
Speaker 3: they're not seating people who were duly elected, right? Because
25:22
Speaker 3: it's advantageous to Democrats. Like, anything's on the table. And
25:28
Speaker 3: people should know Heather Honey's name, right? Like, we need
25:31
Speaker 3: to inform ourselves about the people who are, I think,
25:34
Speaker 3: soon going to become the tip of the spear for
25:36
Speaker 3: Trump in and around elections, because we all know Rudy Giuliani.
25:40
Speaker 3: We remember Cleta Mitchell, but there's another wave. There's like
25:43
Speaker 3: Gen 2.0 and they have power and they're at work
25:46
Speaker 3: right now trying to undermine our right to vote.
25:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think my first reaction when I read this
25:52
Speaker 1: or I saw the headlines with the story and then
25:55
Speaker 1: some other stories about like Trump appointing 2020 election deniers
26:00
Speaker 1: to look back at the 2020 election and do yet
26:02
Speaker 1: another investigation. I was like, oh, maybe this is just
26:05
Speaker 1: a bunch of kooks trying to fight the last war.
26:07
Speaker 1: And Trump just wants to put out some report that says, oh,
26:11
Speaker 1: it was rigged in 2020. And that's just going to be,
26:13
Speaker 1: you know, he's going to make him happy. But this piece,
26:17
Speaker 1: it really gets to the challenge here. And what's really
26:22
Speaker 1: scary is that they are looking ahead to future elections.
26:24
Speaker 1: This is not just about relitigating 2020. This is about 2026,
26:27
Speaker 1: 2028 and beyond. And that's why people, I think, have
26:30
Speaker 1: to really pay attention to it. I will say Trump
26:33
Speaker 1: and his goons aren't treating the White House as a
26:36
Speaker 1: rental these days. Every president puts their own stamp on
26:40
Speaker 1: the historic building and plenty have made renovations during their tenure.
26:44
Speaker 1: Nothing in our lifetimes has come close to what Trump
26:46
Speaker 1: is doing, demolishing the entire East Wing of the White
26:50
Speaker 1: House to make room for a new 90,000 square foot,
26:55
Speaker 1: $ 300 million ballroom that nobody needs and nobody asked for.
27:00
Speaker 1: Like most of Trump's construction projects, He sold this one
27:02
Speaker 1: to people by lying about its costs, its footprint, how
27:06
Speaker 1: disruptive it will be. Let's listen to how Trump's explanation has,
27:11
Speaker 1: shall we say, evolved over time.
27:13
Speaker 4: It won't interfere with the current building. It'll be near it,
27:18
Speaker 4: but not touching it. And pays total respect to the
27:21
Speaker 4: existing building, which I'm the biggest fan of. It's my
27:25
Speaker 4: favorite place.
27:25
Speaker 5: I love it.
27:26
Speaker 4: You probably hear the beautiful sound of construction to the back.
27:29
Speaker 4: You hear that sound?
27:31
Speaker 5: Oh.
27:32
Speaker 4: That's music to my ears. I love that sound. Other
27:34
Speaker 4: people don't like it. I love it, Josh. I think
27:36
Speaker 4: when I hear that sound, it reminds me of money.
27:48
Speaker 1: For those of you just listening, that last clip is
27:50
Speaker 1: just a jackhammer going while the last remains of the
27:55
Speaker 1: East Wing are demolished. It's gone now. The East Wing
27:58
Speaker 1: is gone of the White House. You guys have both
28:01
Speaker 1: spent time in the White House, particularly the East Wing.
28:03
Speaker 1: Initial reactions? Dan?
28:07
Speaker 2: I am so mad about this.
28:09
Speaker 1: You're really? Okay.
28:10
Speaker 2: I am. I mean, it's just, like, it's obviously not,
28:13
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that it's the, I'm unbiased in it. Like,
28:16
Speaker 2: we worked in the White House. We spent time there.
28:18
Speaker 2: It's a very special place, right? It's not Trump's house,
28:22
Speaker 2: not the president's house, the people's house. Presidents get to
28:24
Speaker 2: rent it for four years. And if they're lucky, they
28:26
Speaker 2: get to extend that lease for another four years. And
28:28
Speaker 2: as you know, It is something you– like when you're
28:31
Speaker 2: in that house or you're the president or a staffer
28:33
Speaker 2: or even a visitor, like you understand the history of it.
28:36
Speaker 2: You take it so seriously. Like my wife worked in
28:39
Speaker 2: the East Wing when she worked the First Lady. She
28:40
Speaker 2: was telling me this morning about how when they had
28:42
Speaker 2: to move things around for events, you get the White
28:45
Speaker 2: House curator to come. They put on white gloves because
28:47
Speaker 2: the stuff is so historic. I mean it's like a
28:49
Speaker 2: very serious thing. And to just destroy it for literally
28:53
Speaker 2: no reason to build what is inevitably going to be
28:55
Speaker 2: a tacky, massive ballroom that no one but Trump wanted–
28:59
Speaker 2: And he's definitely going to put his name on it. Like,
29:01
Speaker 2: you know, he looks at the Truman balcony every day
29:02
Speaker 2: and says, it's going to be the Trump ballroom. There's
29:03
Speaker 2: going to be a plaque there. I look forward to
29:05
Speaker 2: the next Democratic president taking that plaque down, but to
29:09
Speaker 2: just destroy it. And it says something about, not that
29:13
Speaker 2: we need a reminder, but it says something about his
29:16
Speaker 2: view of everything. He doesn't care about anything that came
29:18
Speaker 2: before him. He doesn't care about anything that came after him.
29:21
Speaker 2: He doesn't view this as the people's house. He doesn't
29:22
Speaker 2: view this as his role in history. It's just about
29:25
Speaker 2: him in that moment. And if he can do this, right?
29:29
Speaker 2: Think about all the other things he could do, right?
29:33
Speaker 2: Caroline Levin was asked today about why Trump couldn't just
29:36
Speaker 2: raise the Jefferson Memorial and put something else up, and
29:39
Speaker 2: she kind of implied he couldn't. if he wanted to.
29:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, he can do whatever he wants.
29:44
Speaker 2: I think it's really sad. There is just something about
29:46
Speaker 2: just destroying a national historic landmark for no fucking reason
29:50
Speaker 2: that makes, obviously, me as someone who, and all of
29:52
Speaker 2: us who have a connection to it, angry, but it
29:54
Speaker 2: should make everyone angry.
29:56
Speaker 1: Alex, what did you think?
29:57
Speaker 3: I mean, these fuckers are the ones that are putting
29:59
Speaker 3: Confederate statues back up in the name of history.
30:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point.
30:03
Speaker 3: Good point. What?
30:05
Speaker 1: Yes.
30:05
Speaker 3: Like, flag-waving patriotism, preservation of history, and you're just tearing
30:10
Speaker 3: down the entire East Wing of the White House to
30:12
Speaker 3: build a corporate event space to entertain Lockheed Martin executives or,
30:16
Speaker 3: I don't know, have, like, Mooney-style mass weddings? I have
30:19
Speaker 3: no idea. Like— It doesn't even matter, right? Like it's
30:25
Speaker 3: everything Dan said. This is a monument to ego. This
30:27
Speaker 3: is his Versailles. This is monarchical behavior. This is maybe
30:31
Speaker 3: going to be funded ultimately by the American taxpayer. I mean,
30:34
Speaker 3: it's so absolutely fucking disgusting. But the way I think
30:37
Speaker 3: of it is and the way I've been sort of
30:38
Speaker 3: trying to like dig in and like manage my feelings
30:42
Speaker 3: of distress around this. It's like everybody's got to stop
30:45
Speaker 3: thinking about the Trump administration in terms of election cycles. Like,
30:49
Speaker 3: in the same way that they tried to contextualize these
30:52
Speaker 3: renovations by saying, well, Calvin Coolidge redid the attic and
30:54
Speaker 3: Barack Obama put a basketball court in and Nixon put
30:57
Speaker 3: a bowling alley in. We need to think of Trump
30:59
Speaker 3: in terms of history. And the institutions he's destroying are
31:02
Speaker 3: going to take decades to rebuild. Everybody's got to dig
31:05
Speaker 3: the fuck in and buckle up because nothing is going
31:07
Speaker 3: to be repaired by, like, next year. And honestly, we
31:10
Speaker 3: need to start thinking about politics like that, too. It's like,
31:14
Speaker 3: it's a long-term investment. And He's trying to change the
31:17
Speaker 3: course of American history. And it's going to take a
31:19
Speaker 3: powerful citizen led, hopefully with the Democrats on board movement
31:23
Speaker 3: to undo the damage he is doing right now. And like,
31:27
Speaker 3: you don't need a better example than what he's doing
31:29
Speaker 3: to the East Wing. It's like, OK, this is some
31:32
Speaker 3: history right here. Like it's it's going to take it's
31:35
Speaker 3: going to take time to rebuild this and undo it
31:38
Speaker 3: and dig in.
31:40
Speaker 1: You know, you know, it's not going to take time, though,
31:42
Speaker 1: demolishing the Trump ballroom next time the next to a
31:46
Speaker 1: Democratic president. Well, it's going to be.
31:48
Speaker 3: Made of, like, you know, drywall and, like, fake gold leaf.
31:52
Speaker 4: So, yeah.
31:53
Speaker 3: It's just going to be a toxic dump site.
31:55
Speaker 1: I talked about this on Tim Miller's, on the Bulwark
31:58
Speaker 1: Pod with Tim Miller this week, and we were talking
32:00
Speaker 1: about Jonathan Van Lass, JVL, has been on a tear
32:04
Speaker 1: about this, and he's like, I want every Democratic candidate
32:08
Speaker 1: for president to be, like, you know, one of the
32:11
Speaker 1: first days in office, I will bulldoze this. And I was...
32:15
Speaker 1: Joking about it. Tim and I were both joking about it.
32:17
Speaker 1: The more I read it, it's like, I still don't
32:19
Speaker 1: think it's like top priority for any Democrat running for president.
32:23
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'd do it. I'd bulldoze that shit.
32:27
Speaker 3: You're going to be in the seat of the bulldozer,
32:29
Speaker 3: just like you and Charlie.
32:31
Speaker 1: I'm not going to spend a lot of time campaigning
32:34
Speaker 1: on it or running a whole bunch of ads about it.
32:36
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm fucking doing it for sure. The plaques,
32:39
Speaker 1: not just the plaque coming off that says it's the
32:41
Speaker 1: Trump ballroom. No, the whole ballroom's coming down. Just bulldoze. Done.
32:45
Speaker 2: I read JVL's rebuttal to your ridicule of him, and
32:48
Speaker 2: it's quite compelling, I would say.
32:49
Speaker 1: He's doing a good job telling me that.
32:52
Speaker 2: He makes a very strong point that you don't need
32:54
Speaker 2: political capital for this, right? It's not like you're doing
32:56
Speaker 2: the ballroom destruction and passing Medicare for all. You can
32:59
Speaker 2: do both.
33:01
Speaker 1: I will say the reason that it hasn't made me
33:05
Speaker 1: as angry as some of the other stories is it
33:08
Speaker 1: is destroying a historic monument and it is doing, he's
33:12
Speaker 1: doing it unnecessarily and he's acting like a king, like
33:15
Speaker 1: all that. But there's so many people being like hurt
33:18
Speaker 1: right now. Like I said this to Tim, it was like,
33:20
Speaker 1: if you, he can demolish the entire White House, just
33:24
Speaker 1: raise the whole thing to the ground if he takes
33:27
Speaker 1: ice off the street. And there's been so much focus
33:31
Speaker 1: on it and I get why there's been so much
33:32
Speaker 1: focus on it because it's an image. And boy, when
33:35
Speaker 1: you see that, someone just took a, like a, This
33:38
Speaker 1: was on Twitter, an aerial image because they were landing
33:40
Speaker 1: at DCA of the White House. And so it was
33:42
Speaker 1: like the first image of the from afar, the White House,
33:46
Speaker 1: the West Wing, and now just nothing. And you see
33:49
Speaker 1: that image and you're like, holy shit, that that breaks through.
33:52
Speaker 1: That definitely breaks through.
33:53
Speaker 3: What's the polling on this, Dan?
33:56
Speaker 2: Is that your next question, John?
33:58
Speaker 1: Sorry, I didn't mean to insert myself. I love a
34:02
Speaker 1: good conversation like this, so it doesn't seem as... I.
34:04
Speaker 3: Just know Dan has the polling numbers.
34:06
Speaker 2: I don't actually, honestly, didn't have it memorized because it
34:09
Speaker 2: was in the question, so.
34:10
Speaker 1: Oh, shit.
34:11
Speaker 2: Sorry. It's okay. Now you've exposed me as a fraud.
34:15
Speaker 2: I'm just supposed to be just rolling out.
34:17
Speaker 3: Mr.
34:17
Speaker 1: Polar Coaster.
34:18
Speaker 3: I've been, like, retweeting your polling... Okay, whatever. I thought
34:21
Speaker 3: you knew it, my man. Sorry.
34:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, just get yourself a chat GPT. You don't need Dan.
34:26
Speaker 2: It's... Message box is $ 7 a month. Chat sheet is
34:29
Speaker 2: $ 20 a month. It's quite a deal.
34:32
Speaker 3: Take that $ 13 to the bank, people.
34:35
Speaker 1: YouGov, youGov, 53% of Americans are against the destruction of
34:41
Speaker 1: the East Wing, which is what's happening. Or I think
34:44
Speaker 1: the question was the ballroom. There's two questions.
34:46
Speaker 2: There's the ballroom and there's the East Wing.
34:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the destruction of the East Wing is even worse.
34:52
Speaker 2: Yes, yes. People are– they are– They don't want a ballroom.
34:55
Speaker 2: They don't think it's a great use of time, energy
34:57
Speaker 2: and resources right now. But they really don't think the
34:59
Speaker 2: president should bulldoze the fucking White House.
35:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's definitely because I think when I first heard
35:05
Speaker 1: the ballroom, I was like, oh, that's so Trump. That's
35:08
Speaker 1: so annoying. How much is that going to cost? And
35:10
Speaker 1: I thought it was just going to be, like, tacked
35:12
Speaker 1: on to, like, the end of the E-swing there. Like,
35:14
Speaker 1: I just had a different vision. Who knew that the
35:17
Speaker 1: whole fucking E-swing was coming down?
35:19
Speaker 2: I mean, you had that vision because he told you that.
35:21
Speaker 1: He told you it would not affect the.
35:23
Speaker 2: Facade of the White House. So, you know how they
35:26
Speaker 2: used to, like, put those tents up that would be for, like,
35:28
Speaker 2: big state dinners? I assume they were just going to...
35:30
Speaker 2: kind of build out that way, but.
35:32
Speaker 1: That's sort of what I thought, too. I mean, it's truly... I've.
35:34
Speaker 2: Been going through this with my wife all day. She's
35:36
Speaker 2: very upset about this. It's like they bulldozed her office, right?
35:38
Speaker 2: They bulldozed Michelle Obama's office. They bulldozed Melania Trump's office.
35:43
Speaker 3: Metaphor for a marriage. God. And.
35:47
Speaker 1: Yet another immigrant that the federal government has come after.
35:50
Speaker 2: It's really... I mean, it's like... Like, you're right. In
35:53
Speaker 2: a world of like ice raids and National Guard and
35:56
Speaker 2: people losing their health insurance, like this building and the
35:59
Speaker 2: memories that a lot of people have in it, not
36:01
Speaker 2: just people who work there, people who have visited there.
36:02
Speaker 2: It's obviously second to that, but it's just it's like
36:04
Speaker 2: a sad thing.
36:06
Speaker 1: So apparently, you know, Trump keeps saying that the taxpayers
36:11
Speaker 1: are not going to fund Mar-a-Lago on the Potomac. But,
36:16
Speaker 1: you know, he's just going to finance it with other money.
36:18
Speaker 1: And I guess that's true because there's a bunch of
36:20
Speaker 1: corporate donors that are financing this thing. Alex, you were
36:24
Speaker 1: talking about this earlier. What's the.
36:26
Speaker 3: Sitting in one of their houses right now. Comcast, thank you.
36:29
Speaker 1: Who's on the list? Who's on the list here? Who's
36:31
Speaker 1: financing this thing?
36:32
Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting because there are people, and they're
36:36
Speaker 3: big corporations. None of them are going to surprise you,
36:38
Speaker 3: maybe necessarily. But the ones who have explicitly... committed money
36:44
Speaker 3: to the ballroom project itself are Lockheed Martin and I
36:49
Speaker 3: believe Booz Allen Hamilton. And I believe Google has also
36:56
Speaker 3: pledged five million or more for the White House ballroom project.
37:00
Speaker 3: But then you have we have record of other companies,
37:03
Speaker 3: including Apple, Comcast, Coinbase, T-Mobile, the Adelson family. No surprise there. Microsoft, Amazon,
37:09
Speaker 3: Meta and Meta Platforms. And the Winklevii. The Winklevii.
37:14
Speaker 2: Howard Lutnick also giving money. This ties to this easy thing,
37:18
Speaker 2: which is there's a highly disproportionate number of crypto companies
37:21
Speaker 2: and crypto people. The Winklevii are crypto entrepreneurs who have
37:25
Speaker 2: become very.
37:25
Speaker 3: Close to the Trumps. And Trump likes them a lot
37:27
Speaker 3: because they're from central casting as far as what he
37:29
Speaker 3: thinks crypto should look like. But yeah, I mean, it's
37:33
Speaker 3: like the inaugural slush fund. It's like, here's a way
37:35
Speaker 3: for us to curry favor with someone who's powerful in
37:38
Speaker 3: front of whom we have business interests. Because I don't
37:40
Speaker 3: think Sundar Pichai really is that excited to have a
37:43
Speaker 3: space to entertain fellow CEOs. But here, such is the
37:47
Speaker 3: reality in which we live. I would like to see...
37:51
Speaker 3: some kind of color of change campaign to have citizens
37:54
Speaker 3: contact these corporations and say, are you really for the
37:57
Speaker 3: destruction of this East Wing? Are you really for the
37:59
Speaker 3: building of a monstrous 90,000 square foot ballroom? Shame on you.
38:03
Speaker 3: Are you, are you, you know, paying for the destruction
38:05
Speaker 3: of our living history? Because fuck off if you are.
38:09
Speaker 1: It is, it is pretty fucking outrageous. It's also like
38:13
Speaker 1: a bunch of the richest companies in the world are
38:20
Speaker 1: who are doing just, you know, between Booz Allen and
38:24
Speaker 1: fucking the AI people. It's just, it is, it's like
38:27
Speaker 1: a kind of thing that if a liberal said this
38:30
Speaker 1: a couple years ago, they would be like mocked as
38:34
Speaker 1: a cringy resistance person that Trump's going to bulldoze the
38:37
Speaker 1: White House and a new ballroom's going to be constructed
38:41
Speaker 1: with the help of all of his corporate oligarchs. Like,
38:44
Speaker 1: it's fucking ridiculous. It's happening.
38:47
Speaker 2: I would also like to see some account, like there's
38:50
Speaker 2: no process by which that money is accounted for, right?
38:52
Speaker 2: This is not a publicly, like there's no, it's not
38:55
Speaker 2: like there's an FEC report. So these companies have given
38:59
Speaker 2: $ 300 million. How do we know where that money goes?
39:01
Speaker 2: How do we know how it's spent?
39:02
Speaker 3: Isn't it, the Park Service somehow has a tab. There's like,
39:06
Speaker 3: there is actually a wing of the government that is
39:08
Speaker 3: dedicated to taking in the money that I think is
39:11
Speaker 3: in turn managed by the National Park Service. I could
39:13
Speaker 3: be wrong, but there is some receptacle for this specifically
39:16
Speaker 3: earmarked money. So someone somewhere has a ledger.
39:18
Speaker 2: But all these privately funded White House things are all
39:21
Speaker 2: slush funds, where they're privately funded. The inauguration was, the
39:25
Speaker 2: redecorating funds are slush.
39:27
Speaker 1: You never really.
39:28
Speaker 2: They don't have.
39:30
Speaker 2: Like we have transparency since we know companies that have
39:32
Speaker 2: done this and individuals who have done it, but there's
39:34
Speaker 2: not any sense of how the money is spent. It's
39:36
Speaker 2: not audited in any way, shape, or form. Maybe a
39:38
Speaker 2: Democratic majority can do that if we get one, if
39:41
Speaker 2: Heather Honey doesn't stop us.
39:43
Speaker 1: Bookkeeping is not their passion, Dan.
39:45
Speaker 5: No.
39:46
Speaker 2: No, they have the same approach to bookkeeping as Jason
39:48
Speaker 2: Bateman had in Ozark.
39:51
Speaker 3: Nice Ozark ref.
39:53
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, thank you, thank you.
39:54
Speaker 1: One Democrat who's going through his own renovation project, Maine
39:57
Speaker 1: Senate candidate Graham Plattner. How's that for a segue?
40:00
Speaker 2: That is perfect.
40:02
Speaker 3: That's pretty good. Did you just make that up on
40:04
Speaker 3: the spot?
40:04
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not going to take credit for that one.
40:06
Speaker 1: I'll take credit for it when I do it, but
40:07
Speaker 1: I'm not doing it. Nobody knows. I'm giving that one
40:09
Speaker 1: to Reid. Or maybe it was Saul. I don't know. Sorry,
40:12
Speaker 1: someone did. Someone did on our team. In our Tuesday episode,
40:17
Speaker 1: Tommy asked Plattner about a tattoo on his chest. of
40:21
Speaker 1: a Totenkopf, which now we all know, the skull and
40:24
Speaker 1: crossbones image used by the Nazi SS. Plattner said he
40:27
Speaker 1: wasn't aware of what it meant when he got it
40:29
Speaker 1: in Croatia as a drunk 23-year-old Marine. On Wednesday, after
40:32
Speaker 1: a bit of online chatter, Plattner revealed that he got
40:36
Speaker 1: the tattoo covered up. He's also dealing with the fallout
40:39
Speaker 1: from his many, many Reddit posts, including several homophobic slurs
40:43
Speaker 1: and jokes that were reported by The Advocate, which Plattner
40:45
Speaker 1: apologized for and said were indefensible in an interview with
40:48
Speaker 1: The Outlet. Plattner did speak to a packed town hall
40:51
Speaker 1: in a gunk with Maine this week and got some
40:52
Speaker 1: good news from a UNH poll that was in the
40:54
Speaker 1: field between October 16th and 21st. So after many of
40:59
Speaker 1: the Reddit posts came out, but before the Nazi tattoo story,
41:03
Speaker 1: the poll shows that Maine Democrats favor Plattner over Governor
41:06
Speaker 1: Janet Mills by a whopping 58 to 24 percent. Mills'
41:11
Speaker 1: overall approval rating with Mainers has also taken a dive
41:14
Speaker 1: since the last UNH poll in August. She's gone from
41:17
Speaker 1: a plus four net approval rating to a minus 12
41:20
Speaker 1: disapproval with only 35% of independents and 2% of Republicans approving. Alex,
41:25
Speaker 1: we've all talked quite a bit about this story. Some
41:27
Speaker 1: people probably think more than enough that they never want
41:30
Speaker 1: to hear it again. What are your thoughts?
41:32
Speaker 3: I will say this about Graham Platter. I think if
41:36
Speaker 3: there's one residual effect of the Trump administration or the
41:40
Speaker 3: Trump years, it is that politicians can own their mistakes
41:46
Speaker 3: and they can be... I think it is a good
41:51
Speaker 3: thing when people in politics admit that they have erred
41:55
Speaker 3: and that they are human. And I'm not saying that
41:57
Speaker 3: to excuse homophobia or potentially racist tattoos or anti-Semitic tattoos
42:03
Speaker 3: or whatever. I just think it is a good development
42:07
Speaker 3: if people feel like they can own their past, they
42:11
Speaker 3: can apologize for it, they can let the voters decide
42:13
Speaker 3: whether the apology is sufficient, but that we don't pretend
42:16
Speaker 3: to be. that people have lived their lives from, you know,
42:19
Speaker 3: the day they were born hoping to gain office and
42:23
Speaker 3: that they have had experiences and they've made mistakes and
42:26
Speaker 3: they've lived lives because ultimately I think it serves us
42:29
Speaker 3: as a public to have people who have been in
42:32
Speaker 3: the world and have learned things and have evolved. And I'm, again,
42:36
Speaker 3: not making excuses for Graham Plattner, but I think it
42:38
Speaker 3: is a good thing for us politically to not be
42:42
Speaker 3: so afraid of our past. So I think the way
42:44
Speaker 3: he's approached the sort of, scandal here by going out
42:48
Speaker 3: there and talking to people and talking to Tommy and
42:51
Speaker 3: saying like, this is, you know, I regret this. I
42:53
Speaker 3: did this, but this was me and it made me
42:55
Speaker 3: who I am today is like, that's a good thing.
42:57
Speaker 3: And I don't know that that kind of, that kind
42:59
Speaker 3: of mea culpa would have happened before Trump, where it's
43:02
Speaker 3: like nothing, you can do anything. But no, I think
43:06
Speaker 3: that you can be honestly who you are and voters
43:09
Speaker 3: will maybe try not, they'll understand that. And maybe it's
43:12
Speaker 3: not going to be a death knell for your campaign.
43:14
Speaker 3: So that part is good. You know, I don't know.
43:17
Speaker 3: Dan and I kind of disagree on this. I don't know.
43:20
Speaker 3: I think, Janet, I guess I think that I understand
43:24
Speaker 3: the concerns about absolutely being knighted by Chuck Schumer and
43:29
Speaker 3: chosen by the establishment to be the candidate and why
43:32
Speaker 3: that is distasteful. And it is fundamentally anti-democratic. I also
43:36
Speaker 3: think that there is a real difference between someone who's
43:39
Speaker 3: been in the Senate for like six terms and someone
43:41
Speaker 3: who just happens to be old. still wants to fight,
43:44
Speaker 3: has stood up to Donald Trump, said to him in
43:46
Speaker 3: the White House to his face, I'll see you in court. Like,
43:49
Speaker 3: that's a different kind of fighter than some of the aged,
43:52
Speaker 3: albeit wonderful public servants we see in the upper chamber.
43:55
Speaker 3: And I don't think we should, you know, I don't
43:58
Speaker 3: think it's necessarily fair to put her in the same
44:00
Speaker 3: box as, for example, Dick Durbin. OK, not that he's
44:02
Speaker 3: a bad person. And like, last but not least, I
44:06
Speaker 3: just am a little bit with Jonathan Martin on this
44:09
Speaker 3: when it's like Democrats do get very enthralled by With
44:13
Speaker 3: anti-establishment outsiders who are very charismatic and, you know, I'm
44:17
Speaker 3: thinking of Beto O'Rourke and his potty mouth. And, you know,
44:20
Speaker 3: like I do worry a little bit that he's such
44:23
Speaker 3: he is he's good. He's a good, you know, like
44:26
Speaker 3: he's got a lot to recommend him. But I do
44:29
Speaker 3: worry about like whether this is actually someone who's going
44:31
Speaker 3: to win the weird ass state of Maine. It's a
44:33
Speaker 3: weird state. I'm in a wonderful state. No disrespect, Mainers.
44:38
Speaker 1: Dan, before you go, I'm going to just read you
44:42
Speaker 1: just a quote from what Alex was just referencing, our
44:45
Speaker 1: friend Jonathan Martin's Politico column, and then I'm just going
44:48
Speaker 1: to let you cook on this. You shouldn't do that.
44:50
Speaker 2: You should not do that.
44:52
Speaker 1: Alex and I are going to set a timer. We'll
44:54
Speaker 1: give you.
44:54
Speaker 2: We're going to have to play me off like the Oscars.
44:59
Speaker 3: Just let him have the rest of the show.
45:01
Speaker 1: So J-Mart says... The Democrats need to stop, quote, swooning over, quote,
45:05
Speaker 1: political outsider or mostly new name candidates who rely on
45:09
Speaker 1: online video and lean, quote, heavily on compelling biography or
45:12
Speaker 1: powerful oratory, which caused, quote, out of state liberal hobbyists
45:16
Speaker 1: to fall in love and donate. And for journalists to, quote,
45:19
Speaker 1: rush to profile the latest heartthrob before inevitable disappointment when
45:23
Speaker 1: the candidate loses or well becomes John Fetterman. Obviously, a
45:28
Speaker 1: lot to respond to there, Dan. Okay.
45:32
Speaker 2: We like Jonathan Martin. We've known him for a very
45:34
Speaker 2: long time. I think he is a very astute observer
45:36
Speaker 2: of politics. I don't understand a word he wrote in
45:39
Speaker 2: this piece.
45:40
Speaker 5: Okay.
45:41
Speaker 3: Should we repeat it? Should we have.
45:43
Speaker 2: Don reread it? I understand the syllables. I understand the
45:47
Speaker 2: individual words. I just don't understand the point, I guess,
45:49
Speaker 2: is the way I'd say it. So first, the idea
45:52
Speaker 2: that Democrats are constantly falling in love with these crazy
45:55
Speaker 2: outsider candidates who can't win elections is belied by the
45:59
Speaker 2: fact that our last three nominees were Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden,
46:04
Speaker 2: and then Kamala Harris, who may have been exciting or
46:06
Speaker 2: may not have been, but we didn't have a primary
46:08
Speaker 2: to find out because she was handpicked and no one
46:10
Speaker 2: ran against her. And in many of those races, there
46:13
Speaker 2: were exciting grassroots progressive candidates who ran and lost, and
46:18
Speaker 2: Democrats did not pick those people. So that's one. Two,
46:21
Speaker 2: the examples that Jonathan and also now Alex have cited,
46:26
Speaker 2: I dispute because Beto O'Rourke was an exciting candidate. He
46:31
Speaker 2: did have a potty mouth. He also did better in
46:34
Speaker 2: Texas than any Democrat in a couple of decades and
46:37
Speaker 2: came very close to winning that race. I don't think
46:39
Speaker 2: anyone can credit the argument that there was some safe
46:42
Speaker 2: Texas establishment figure who would have done better than Beto
46:45
Speaker 2: did in that race. The other one that Jonathan Martin
46:48
Speaker 2: cites is Stacey Abrams. Exciting, got lots of money from
46:53
Speaker 2: out of state. People were really excited about her, very
46:54
Speaker 2: inspiring candidate. She came closer to winning the Georgia governorship
46:58
Speaker 2: than any other Democrat in a very long time. And
47:00
Speaker 2: because of the race she won, Democrats won the Senate
47:04
Speaker 2: seats of John Ossoff and Raphael Warnock, and Biden won
47:07
Speaker 2: the state in 2020. And so it's not like, once again,
47:09
Speaker 2: we put all of our money and hopes in this
47:12
Speaker 2: losing candidate when there was this winning candidate. Amy McGrath,
47:15
Speaker 2: different story. She is someone who raised a ton of
47:17
Speaker 2: money online because everyone wanted to beat Mitch McConnell. I
47:20
Speaker 2: think in part because Senate Democrats, the DSCC and Chuck
47:23
Speaker 2: Schumer perpetuated this fiction that McConnell was beatable in order
47:27
Speaker 2: to raise more money for the effort to elect Democrats
47:29
Speaker 2: across the country. Rick kind of bilked donors out of
47:32
Speaker 2: their money. But once again, there was no other candidate.
47:34
Speaker 2: We didn't pick Amy McGrath over some other candidate who
47:37
Speaker 2: would have done a better job to win. In fact,
47:40
Speaker 2: a few years later when Charles Booker ran against Rand
47:42
Speaker 2: Paul in that same seat, this very exciting progressive candidate,
47:44
Speaker 2: he did just as well as she did, if not
47:46
Speaker 2: a little bit better. And then the last thing I
47:48
Speaker 2: would say, and then let's take the Fetterman thing. Everyone
47:51
Speaker 2: keeps saying this thing like, didn't you guys learn your
47:53
Speaker 2: lessons from Fetterman? As if Fetterman was some unknown person
47:57
Speaker 2: and everyone just fell in love with his hoodies and
47:59
Speaker 2: tattoos and shaved head. John Fetterman was the two-term lieutenant
48:02
Speaker 2: governor of the state. He had been a very prominent
48:05
Speaker 2: mayor for almost a decade at that point. He was
48:10
Speaker 2: the mayor of Braddock who endorsed Barack Obama in 2008.
48:12
Speaker 2: He was not unknown by anyone. He was very well known.
48:14
Speaker 2: Now he change all of his positions after he got
48:17
Speaker 2: in his attitude of once he got in office. But
48:19
Speaker 2: that is not the same. That says nothing about Graham
48:21
Speaker 2: Platner or any of these other candidates. Last point on this,
48:24
Speaker 2: and I have one more thing to respond to Alex on,
48:26
Speaker 2: and then I'll be done.
48:26
Speaker 1: I promise.
48:27
Speaker 2: The main thing that bothers me about J. Marth's piece,
48:31
Speaker 2: not Alex, J. Marth's piece is that, is the entire,
48:35
Speaker 2: and a lot of the actual anti-Platner discussions since the
48:39
Speaker 2: posts and the tattoo came about is this idea that
48:43
Speaker 2: candidates who excite voters are doing some sort of parlor
48:46
Speaker 2: trick that it's like they're just they're tricking people into
48:48
Speaker 2: liking them and the attitude from the establishment and some
48:52
Speaker 2: of the media folks is like you fucking rubes how
48:56
Speaker 2: did you fall for that trick again you got all
48:58
Speaker 2: excited about this candidate when you should have just taken
49:00
Speaker 2: the boring candidate we tried to shove down your throats
49:03
Speaker 2: instead of like sometimes the grassroots will like a candidate
49:07
Speaker 2: who maybe isn't the best one and maybe grand partner
49:09
Speaker 2: is not the best one He may not be. But
49:11
Speaker 2: sometimes they will like a candidate who is the best one. Like,
49:14
Speaker 2: I don't know, Barack Obama, because that same attitude was
49:16
Speaker 2: what we heard every single day on that campaign. Ooh,
49:18
Speaker 2: look at Obama and his rap. and his celebrities. But
49:21
Speaker 2: what you really got to do is support Hillary Clinton
49:23
Speaker 2: or John Edwards, one of these other long-term politicians. Don't
49:26
Speaker 2: do the newcomer. And when people, instead of dismissing the
49:31
Speaker 2: candidates who get people excited and the voters who get
49:32
Speaker 2: excited by the candidates, the establishment should try to figure
49:35
Speaker 2: out why they're getting excited and maybe learn some of
49:37
Speaker 2: those lessons and apply them to their candidates. Maybe Janet–
49:40
Speaker 2: so last point here, I promise. Maybe Janet Mills will
49:43
Speaker 2: be an exciting candidate. Like she may be.
49:44
Speaker 1: We don't know.
49:45
Speaker 2: Maybe she is a better candidate than Graham Platner, particularly
49:48
Speaker 2: after all these revelations. I don't know the answer to that, right?
49:51
Speaker 2: I do not know the answer to that. And I
49:53
Speaker 2: don't think anyone else does either. And that's really been
49:55
Speaker 2: my main beef about everyone declaring that he's a worse
49:59
Speaker 2: candidate than her. No one knows because there's a lot
50:02
Speaker 2: of arguments that would show that a two-term establishment governor–
50:07
Speaker 2: who is 77 and will be in her mid-80s at
50:09
Speaker 2: the end of her first term, and is the second
50:12
Speaker 2: least popular governor in America, may not be the best
50:16
Speaker 2: candidate either. And so we should just let the voters
50:17
Speaker 2: in Maine figure it out. Okay, I'm done. I'll stop now.
50:22
Speaker 1: It's funny that you mentioned Obama there because people have
50:28
Speaker 1: been talking quite a bit online. People have a lot
50:30
Speaker 1: of feelings about everything over this last week. There's a
50:32
Speaker 1: lot of people like, are these guys, are the pot
50:35
Speaker 1: guys working for Plattner? And I'm like, it is, it's
50:37
Speaker 1: less about Plattner. I think our reaction is because of
50:41
Speaker 1: like what we experienced on the Obama campaign.
50:44
Speaker 3: I would call it obvious psychology.
50:46
Speaker 1: And I almost started laughing when I was reading the
50:49
Speaker 1: quotes from Jay Mart's piece, where it was like, swooning
50:51
Speaker 1: over political outsider or mostly new name, heavily on compelling
50:55
Speaker 1: biography or powerful oratory. Like, But all of that stuff
50:58
Speaker 1: was said about Barack Obama. And it wasn't just and
51:00
Speaker 1: now people will look back at people who you think, oh, well,
51:04
Speaker 1: Barack Obama left as you know, he was he was
51:06
Speaker 1: perceived as this establishment Democrat who sort of united the
51:12
Speaker 1: party and all different factions liked him. When he was
51:15
Speaker 1: when we were running against Hillary Clinton, it was like
51:17
Speaker 1: this guy has no experience. His name is pretty foreign.
51:22
Speaker 1: What has he ever done? He's a communist. Reverend Wright,
51:25
Speaker 1: Bill Ayers. People thought that he was like, There's no
51:29
Speaker 1: way this guy can win.
51:30
Speaker 3: And his tattoos.
51:32
Speaker 1: Don't forget about those. And his tattoos, which he got
51:34
Speaker 1: away with, which still no one knows about.
51:36
Speaker 3: And his homophobic tirades.
51:38
Speaker 1: And the homophobic, yeah, right.
51:39
Speaker 3: All the stuff he did.
51:40
Speaker 1: So it's just like, but it is just to say
51:42
Speaker 1: that I'm talking to Chris Hayes, your colleague Chris Hayes,
51:46
Speaker 1: for Offline this weekend. And we were just talking about
51:49
Speaker 1: Chris's piece in the New York Times about attention and
51:51
Speaker 1: what's required to get attention in politics today. And his
51:54
Speaker 1: point is, on the list of when you're recruiting a
51:57
Speaker 1: Democratic candidate, what's most important? Right now, and for a
52:00
Speaker 1: long time, what's most important to the DSCC, to the DCCC,
52:03
Speaker 1: to the National Democratic Party is, can you raise money?
52:07
Speaker 1: And then, like, what is your resume? What is your bio? And, like,
52:10
Speaker 1: do your politics fit with the state or the district
52:12
Speaker 1: that you're in? And are you safe? And are you safe, right?
52:15
Speaker 1: And then way down on the list, and sometimes sneered at,
52:18
Speaker 1: is can you really connect with voters? Are you, like,
52:22
Speaker 1: a compelling speaker? Do you know how to capture attention
52:26
Speaker 1: in a very competitive attention space? environment right now and
52:31
Speaker 1: like can you inspire people and that is seen as
52:33
Speaker 1: like just it's like something that warms people's hearts or
52:37
Speaker 1: I don't know like to take another 2007 example that
52:40
Speaker 1: sends the thrill up Chris Matthews legs and it's like
52:44
Speaker 1: that is not why I care about someone who's a
52:48
Speaker 1: really good speaker I care about that because I think
52:51
Speaker 1: it actually helps them win and be competitive and in
52:54
Speaker 1: a really tough race. And I think that's even more
52:57
Speaker 1: true now in this information environment than it's ever been.
53:00
Speaker 1: And I just worry, again, Graham Plattner aside, that like
53:04
Speaker 1: the party has not prioritized candidates, regardless of whether they're
53:09
Speaker 1: on the left, center left, wherever, who can really connect
53:13
Speaker 1: and inspire people. And I just think that that is a,
53:16
Speaker 1: I think that is, I worry most about that than
53:18
Speaker 1: anything else.
53:18
Speaker 2: That's a real problem with the DSCC, I think, is
53:20
Speaker 2: in We can have the same argument about who the
53:23
Speaker 2: most electable candidate in Michigan is between Abdul, Sayyid, Mallory,
53:27
Speaker 2: and Haley Stevens. Once again, I don't know the answer
53:29
Speaker 2: to that question. I don't think anyone else does either.
53:31
Speaker 2: The DSCC thinks they know the answer. They think the
53:33
Speaker 2: answer is Haley Stevens. And there is absolutely no question,
53:35
Speaker 2: whatever else you think about Haley Stevens, that she is
53:37
Speaker 2: not as good a communicator as Abdul and Mallory, who
53:39
Speaker 2: are excellent communicators and have theories of the case about
53:43
Speaker 2: how you get attention in this day and age. She
53:44
Speaker 2: is a very capable, very typical politician in how she communicates.
53:49
Speaker 2: And so it's clearly not the top of their list.
53:51
Speaker 2: I just want to stipulate what my actual position here is.
53:55
Speaker 2: I just want to say this again, because everyone's pro-Plattner, pro-Plattner.
54:00
Speaker 2: I have liked Glenn Plattner. I've been impressed by what
54:02
Speaker 2: he's done. I truly have no idea if he's a
54:04
Speaker 2: better candidate than Janet Mills.
54:05
Speaker 1: Same.
54:05
Speaker 2: I really do not. And whoever wins that nomination, I
54:09
Speaker 2: obviously will support them. I will donate to them, all
54:12
Speaker 2: of that. My big issue is that people who assume...
54:16
Speaker 2: that the outsider candidate is less electable than the insider candidate,
54:20
Speaker 2: I think do not fully, if only I appreciated the
54:23
Speaker 2: changes in American politics over the last 10 years.
54:27
Speaker 3: I'm definitely not. I just be clear. I don't write
54:29
Speaker 3: under the pseudonym Jonathan Martin for just in case anybody
54:33
Speaker 3: was like worried about that.
54:34
Speaker 2: I would say there's no chance you two would be
54:35
Speaker 2: confused for each other.
54:37
Speaker 3: Well, you never know. It's a weird time in America. Um,
54:41
Speaker 3: I would never argue that the outsider is doomed by
54:44
Speaker 3: any stretch of the imagination. And, guys, I hear what–
54:46
Speaker 3: I understand that the Obama candidacy in 2008 was like–
54:50
Speaker 3: I know. I lived through it too and I understand
54:52
Speaker 3: that it was– the trepidation and the concern about his
54:57
Speaker 3: candidacy was very real. But I think that this is
54:59
Speaker 3: something a little bit different, right? I don't think it's
55:02
Speaker 3: the same as that. I think the guy does have baggage.
55:05
Speaker 3: He's had to explain a lot early on and with
55:08
Speaker 3: constituencies that are important. I think, as I said at
55:11
Speaker 3: the beginning, I think he's done a very admirable job
55:14
Speaker 3: of that. I think if the I think we're falling
55:17
Speaker 3: into to your point, Dan, about the establishment and how
55:20
Speaker 3: fucked it is and like fuck that. What we've learned
55:23
Speaker 3: is also it doesn't actually matter what the establishment wants.
55:26
Speaker 1: Right.
55:26
Speaker 3: Like Trump wasn't who the establishment wanted.
55:28
Speaker 1: Right.
55:28
Speaker 3: He was who the people wanted. So, like, on a
55:30
Speaker 3: certain level, it's like, congratulations, Chuck Schumer, for convincing a
55:33
Speaker 3: 77-year-old to run for one term in the Senate. Like,
55:35
Speaker 3: that's the feat. But, like, whether your, you know, manipulation
55:38
Speaker 3: or even whether the DSCC funding matters, like, yeah, money matters.
55:42
Speaker 3: But I also feel like money will come. Like, if
55:45
Speaker 3: you're an exciting candidate and people feel like you're going
55:47
Speaker 3: to win, I do think, like, we are in a
55:49
Speaker 3: day and age where if you are in the culture,
55:51
Speaker 3: if your message is resonating, if you are making an
55:53
Speaker 3: imprint on the election landscape, like, you're going to get
55:56
Speaker 3: the money. And I do think... You don't necessarily have
55:59
Speaker 3: to have the framework of the establishment behind you to
56:01
Speaker 3: become the nominee. So like I guess it's in that
56:04
Speaker 3: way I'm not as outraged by like Schumer's attempt to
56:07
Speaker 3: meddle in all of this because ultimately I'm not sure
56:09
Speaker 3: that it's actually that much of a thumb on the scale.
56:11
Speaker 3: I could be wrong. No, no.
56:13
Speaker 2: I don't think you're wrong. I think a candidate like
56:15
Speaker 2: Graham Platner who– I mean he raised more money than–
56:18
Speaker 2: in a similar period of time than Janet Mills did
56:20
Speaker 2: with the help of Chuck Schumer. the, you know, it's
56:23
Speaker 2: a little bit different in Michigan where you have Haley
56:25
Speaker 2: Stevens showing up at DSCC finance retreats, which Janice Mills
56:27
Speaker 2: will be able to either. But I suspect that if
56:30
Speaker 2: Grant Plattner survives this period and continues to thrive in
56:32
Speaker 2: this race, he will raise enough grassroots money in a
56:34
Speaker 2: state as small as Maine to compete. There's no question
56:37
Speaker 2: about that. What bothers me even more than just the,
56:39
Speaker 2: it's not just the intervention, it's what it says about
56:41
Speaker 2: their understanding of politics and the lack of humility about
56:44
Speaker 2: what we know about electability in a post-Trump era that
56:47
Speaker 2: bothers me. Because it says something disturbing about how the
56:49
Speaker 2: people at the top actually have interpreted the 2024 results
56:53
Speaker 2: and how they see politics. Because they're just running the
56:55
Speaker 2: same play they've run every year, every time, as long
56:58
Speaker 2: as I've been around politics. And things have changed a
57:00
Speaker 2: lot recently.
57:01
Speaker 3: The government's still shut down, though.
57:03
Speaker 2: That sure is.
57:04
Speaker 1: You know what?
57:04
Speaker 2: And kudos to them. They have done a very good
57:07
Speaker 2: job throughout this shutdown.
57:08
Speaker 3: By the way, I'm not here to defend Chuck Schumer.
57:10
Speaker 3: Just also, just not.
57:11
Speaker 1: So yeah, Alex takes the Schumer position and Dan loves
57:15
Speaker 1: the tattoo, is what we are. That is what I'm
57:18
Speaker 1: coming away with.
57:19
Speaker 2: And you're dealing with latent Obama-era trauma.
57:22
Speaker 3: Guys, there's a big couch for all of you.
57:25
Speaker 1: There's a big couch for all of you. Good stuff. Well, fortunately,
57:28
Speaker 1: we have till June to keep talking about this. That's
57:31
Speaker 1: the best part, yes.
57:33
Speaker 3: Dan's just going to stay here and talk about this
57:34
Speaker 3: race till then.
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Speaker 1: Promo code crooked. That's Nutrafol.com. Promo code crooked. Let's talk
59:12
Speaker 1: about some critical races that are actually happening soon. It's
59:15
Speaker 1: in a week from Tuesday. I saw that and I
59:18
Speaker 1: was like, a week from Tuesday? Are we that close?
59:22
Speaker 1: Let's start with the 2025 face-off everyone's talking about. The
59:25
Speaker 1: Georgia Public Service Commission... I'm only partly kidding. If you
59:29
Speaker 1: live in Georgia and you don't want to pay higher
59:31
Speaker 1: electricity bills, make sure to get out and vote. This
59:34
Speaker 1: is an important race. It has a lot of ramifications
59:36
Speaker 1: in Georgia. Same for you all in Pennsylvania in the
59:39
Speaker 1: Supreme Court races there. Republican mega donor Jeff Yass is
59:43
Speaker 1: trying to buy the state's high court. Do not let
59:46
Speaker 1: him go out and vote. Same with all you Californians
59:49
Speaker 1: in Prop 50. Vote yes on Prop 50.
59:51
Speaker 2: I voted today.
59:52
Speaker 1: I had a couple people texting me and they're like,
59:53
Speaker 1: is it yes? Is it no? What's the good one?
59:55
Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, proposition. It's tough. The language
59:57
Speaker 1: is annoying. I get that. It's yes on 50. I
1:00:00
Speaker 1: got to get my ballot. I don't know where it is.
1:00:02
Speaker 1: It's supposed to be at my house somewhere. Anyway, that's
1:00:03
Speaker 1: my problem.
1:00:04
Speaker 2: I filled mine out today.
1:00:06
Speaker 1: I know. Well, I got the text.
1:00:06
Speaker 3: Where could Jon Favreau's ballot be?
1:00:09
Speaker 1: It's in Heather Honey's pocket right now. Exactly. The California
1:00:14
Speaker 1: Secretary of State sends a very helpful text to your phone.
1:00:16
Speaker 1: It's on the way. It says you can track your ballot.
1:00:18
Speaker 1: So I got all that. I just can't find it.
1:00:20
Speaker 1: All right. If you don't live in those states, but
1:00:23
Speaker 1: you have friends and family that do, just give them
1:00:24
Speaker 1: a reminder. Someone in Georgia, Pennsylvania, here in California, send
1:00:27
Speaker 1: them to votesaveamerica.com, whatever you need to do. Meanwhile, in
1:00:31
Speaker 1: New York City, polling shows that Zoran Mamdani is in
1:00:34
Speaker 1: good shape against Andrew Cuomo, but who knows? Cuomo did
1:00:37
Speaker 1: land the coveted Eric Adams endorsement on Thursday after a
1:00:43
Speaker 1: contentious final debate between Cuomo, Mamdani, and Curtis Sliwa on
1:00:46
Speaker 1: Wednesday night. Both Mamdani and Cuomo were out there hammering
1:00:50
Speaker 1: away the next morning on the platforms where they connect best.
1:00:53
Speaker 1: Mamdani on the hugely popular Flagrant podcast and Andrew Cuomo
1:00:58
Speaker 1: on an obscure local radio show. Let's listen to the
1:01:00
Speaker 1: two approaches.
1:01:02
Speaker 2: I also think this idea that New Yorkers are going
1:01:04
Speaker 2: to flee because of a 2% increase, it's like, I've
1:01:06
Speaker 2: been everywhere else.
1:01:07
Speaker 1: You're not going anywhere. Bill Ackman's not going nowhere.
1:01:10
Speaker 2: He's going to be in the Hamptons all fucking summer.
1:01:12
Speaker 2: There's only one place to write those tweets.
1:01:13
Speaker 1: That's it.
1:01:13
Speaker 2: New York City.
1:01:14
Speaker 5: Exactly.
1:01:15
Speaker 2: Every character you want.
1:01:16
Speaker 1: AC goes out in July in Miami.
1:01:19
Speaker 2: You're sweating writing tweets.
1:01:20
Speaker 5: There's no way.
1:01:21
Speaker 2: He's spending more money against me than I would even
1:01:23
Speaker 2: tax him. Every day it's like a million dollars. It's
1:01:27
Speaker 2: like a million dollars. I'm like, I don't even want that.
1:01:31
Speaker 2: You're going above and beyond.
1:01:33
Speaker 5: Any given morning there's a crisis. And people's lives are
1:01:37
Speaker 5: at stake. God forbid another 9-11. Can you imagine Mondami
1:01:42
Speaker 5: in the seat?
1:01:44
Speaker 1: I could. He'd be cheering.
1:01:48
Speaker 5: It's another problem.
1:01:50
Speaker 1: Well, that's lovely. Let's start with our New York City correspondent,
1:01:54
Speaker 1: Alex Wagner.
1:01:55
Speaker 3: I hate New York City. Sorry. I just, like, barf
1:01:59
Speaker 3: to all of it.
1:01:59
Speaker 1: I mean, it's fun.
1:02:01
Speaker 3: I'm ready.
1:02:02
Speaker 1: We've got a bunch of NIMBYs trying to prevent affordable
1:02:04
Speaker 1: housing from being built.
1:02:07
Speaker 5: Cool.
1:02:07
Speaker 3: I'm there. Okay. Mamdani's a, like, generational talent. Amazing. No
1:02:15
Speaker 3: matter what happens, this guy is, like, first of all,
1:02:19
Speaker 3: to the discussion we were having earlier, like, It's just
1:02:22
Speaker 3: fucking great. It's a shot in the arm for Democrats
1:02:24
Speaker 3: and progressives to see someone who can so beautifully master
1:02:27
Speaker 3: the culture and is like a great talker and who's,
1:02:31
Speaker 3: you know, not just a great talker, but has substantive, new,
1:02:35
Speaker 3: bold ideas.
1:02:36
Speaker 2: Right.
1:02:37
Speaker 3: Yay, yay, yay. Checkmark, checkmark, checkmark. But New York isn't
1:02:40
Speaker 3: all like bros. It's not all. I mean, I do worry.
1:02:44
Speaker 3: that anecdotally there are some quiet Cuomo voters who are
1:02:48
Speaker 3: like in the– I'm just saying this because I think
1:02:52
Speaker 3: especially after the 2024 election.
1:02:54
Speaker 1: What happened there?
1:02:56
Speaker 3: Yeah. I'll tell you later. I'm not saying that Cuomo
1:03:01
Speaker 3: is a shoo-in, but I would not be surprised if
1:03:04
Speaker 3: the race is tighter than it appears to be right now.
1:03:08
Speaker 3: There is, you know, New York City is a diverse city,
1:03:12
Speaker 3: and it is a city that is incredibly tough, and
1:03:14
Speaker 3: there is still... Like there are people I know that
1:03:17
Speaker 3: admire Mamdani and think he's amazing, but are genuinely worried
1:03:20
Speaker 3: about his ability to manage the bureaucracy and fight with Albany.
1:03:22
Speaker 3: And Cuomo was really good at denying New York City
1:03:26
Speaker 3: funding when he was the governor. But in the inverse,
1:03:29
Speaker 3: like Trump didn't never paid his taxes, but certainly like
1:03:32
Speaker 3: he knew how to game the system that way. So
1:03:34
Speaker 3: why not install him as the head of the federal
1:03:35
Speaker 3: government in the same way like Cuomo will be able to,
1:03:39
Speaker 3: you know, again, I'm not. supporting a Cuomo candidacy. I'm
1:03:42
Speaker 3: just suggesting that I think that there are people in
1:03:44
Speaker 3: this city and they may not be from, you know,
1:03:47
Speaker 3: the sort of very online audience that Mom Donnie is
1:03:53
Speaker 3: speaking so convincingly to or even the college educated audience.
1:03:56
Speaker 3: But I do think that there is a subset of
1:03:58
Speaker 3: New Yorkers who aren't maybe getting pulled or maybe not
1:04:00
Speaker 3: being as vocal that are going to that could find
1:04:04
Speaker 3: comfort in Cuomo. And so I guess the only thing
1:04:06
Speaker 3: I would say in this moment is just like, cautious
1:04:08
Speaker 3: optimism that Mamdani is going to be the next mayor
1:04:12
Speaker 3: because I think it might be a little bit tighter
1:04:14
Speaker 3: than people suspect. That's all I'm going to say. I
1:04:17
Speaker 3: could be proven wrong and it could be a landslide
1:04:19
Speaker 3: and then everyone will laugh at me, but they're going
1:04:22
Speaker 3: to do that no matter what.
1:04:23
Speaker 1: But if not, boy, do we have a clip. Totally.
1:04:28
Speaker 1: I mean, he is like running through the tape here, Mamdani.
1:04:31
Speaker 1: He is not, and he is doing... as many interviews
1:04:35
Speaker 1: as he can. He's, he's, he was, he went pretty
1:04:37
Speaker 1: hard at Cuomo during the debate. He is not acting
1:04:40
Speaker 1: like someone who is 10 points up. And I think
1:04:42
Speaker 1: that is a good way to run a race.
1:04:44
Speaker 3: Yep.
1:04:44
Speaker 1: Even if you are 10 points up or 15 points
1:04:46
Speaker 1: up to run like you're 10 points behind. I think
1:04:48
Speaker 1: that's always great. And, um, he's doing a lot of, uh,
1:04:52
Speaker 1: I feel like in these last couple of weeks, uh,
1:04:53
Speaker 1: sort of easing the concerns of the people that you
1:04:57
Speaker 1: might be talking about, right? Which is like, I'm going
1:04:59
Speaker 1: to keep the police commissioner and I'm going to, like, he's... Well,
1:05:03
Speaker 1: I think.
1:05:03
Speaker 3: That that's a different, I almost think that that's like
1:05:05
Speaker 3: the wealthier New Yorkers who have been reluctant to give
1:05:07
Speaker 3: him money. You know, he's been tacking more towards the center,
1:05:10
Speaker 3: at least rhetorically, in terms of not raising alarms around
1:05:13
Speaker 3: his socialist agenda and also issues like Gaza and Israel. Like,
1:05:17
Speaker 3: he's definitely trying to play to a larger audience. But
1:05:20
Speaker 3: I think there's a more, I mean, in the same
1:05:21
Speaker 3: way that we saw New York, Trump gained in certain
1:05:25
Speaker 3: areas of the city, right? Blue collar parts of the city.
1:05:29
Speaker 3: And I don't know that anything Mamdani is doing right
1:05:33
Speaker 3: now is something that's even coming across their radar. I
1:05:37
Speaker 3: think it's going to be maybe as simple as we
1:05:40
Speaker 3: remember Cuomo. Cuomo can manage the city. We're going, you know,
1:05:43
Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's just kind of a basic
1:05:44
Speaker 3: calculation based on name and recognition that is, you know,
1:05:47
Speaker 3: but I agree. Mamdani is not acting like he's 10
1:05:50
Speaker 3: points ahead.
1:05:51
Speaker 1: It's going to be.
1:05:51
Speaker 2: Interesting to see how Mondani does in those precincts that
1:05:55
Speaker 2: shifted to Trump. Do they just vote for Republican? Was
1:06:00
Speaker 2: it really affordability and inflation and cost of living that
1:06:03
Speaker 2: drove them to support Trump? And if that's the case,
1:06:06
Speaker 2: now maybe it's going to be apples to oranges comparison
1:06:08
Speaker 2: because the turnout is going to be so different. But
1:06:11
Speaker 2: that'll be something I'll look at on election night.
1:06:14
Speaker 1: Next door in New Jersey, Congresswoman Mikey Sherrill appears to
1:06:17
Speaker 1: be up about five points against former state rep Jack Cittarelli.
1:06:21
Speaker 1: Reminder that in the last cycle, Phil Murphy won by
1:06:23
Speaker 1: only three points, but the polls had him winning by more.
1:06:25
Speaker 1: And of course, in 2024, the state swung 10 points
1:06:29
Speaker 1: to the right. In fact, Kamala Harris won New Jersey
1:06:31
Speaker 1: with a smaller vote share than Donald Trump got in Arizona. Dan,
1:06:36
Speaker 1: has this race been more competitive than you expected?
1:06:38
Speaker 2: No, I think it's about as competitive as I expected.
1:06:40
Speaker 2: I mean, it was obviously been a shift in New
1:06:41
Speaker 2: Jersey that is, as indicated by the 2021 results, that
1:06:45
Speaker 2: it's not just.
1:06:46
Speaker 1: A 2024 race.
1:06:49
Speaker 2: Biden border inflation bump. I think it says something real
1:06:54
Speaker 2: has happened there. And this is what makes this race
1:06:58
Speaker 2: so much different than Virginia is we live in this
1:07:01
Speaker 2: state of perpetual change elections, and Mikey Sherrill is replacing
1:07:05
Speaker 2: a two-term Democratic governor, and it's always hard to be
1:07:07
Speaker 2: three terms of the same party. And there's been a
1:07:12
Speaker 2: lot of concern about her candidacy among Democratic circles. There's
1:07:14
Speaker 2: been like 15 stories in Axios about panic about this race.
1:07:18
Speaker 2: And Part of it is that she has made a
1:07:20
Speaker 2: couple of mistakes in interviews. One about her, she struggled
1:07:24
Speaker 2: to like name what her top priority would be. Another
1:07:26
Speaker 2: one where she was on The Breakfast Club and she
1:07:29
Speaker 2: failed to respond accurately to a very unfair and very
1:07:33
Speaker 2: inaccurate attack about millions of dollars made stock trading that
1:07:38
Speaker 2: had been like weaponized in ads that are very, especially
1:07:40
Speaker 2: the one from The Breakfast Club that's very reminiscent of
1:07:43
Speaker 2: the infamous trance ad from 2024. So it made people nervous.
1:07:47
Speaker 2: But this was always going to be a close race.
1:07:48
Speaker 2: It seems like it's a close race, and we have
1:07:50
Speaker 2: to hope these polls are.
1:07:52
Speaker 5: Accurate, I guess.
1:07:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. In Virginia, Abigail Spanberger is up about seven points,
1:07:57
Speaker 1: maybe more, outside the margin of error. But again, who knows?
1:08:00
Speaker 1: Virginia also has lieutenant governor and attorney general races that
1:08:03
Speaker 1: are very tight. The Democratic attorney general candidate, Jay Jones,
1:08:06
Speaker 1: is tied with his opponent after a scandal over disturbing
1:08:09
Speaker 1: texts with a Republican colleague from a few years ago
1:08:11
Speaker 1: where he endorsed political violence. He's since apologized. National Republicans
1:08:16
Speaker 1: have been all over this trying to get Spanberger to
1:08:18
Speaker 1: fully denounce him. Alex, the delta between the governor and
1:08:21
Speaker 1: lieutenant governor races and the AG race certainly suggests that
1:08:25
Speaker 1: these Joan texts could really matter. What do you think?
1:08:29
Speaker 3: I just I guess I can't get over. It's just like, yes,
1:08:32
Speaker 3: the texts were bad. But like this is a week
1:08:36
Speaker 3: when like Trump's nominee for the office of special counsel,
1:08:39
Speaker 3: Paul Ingrassi, it. admitted last year that he had Nazi tendencies.
1:08:44
Speaker 3: It's just like to me, the the the false political violence,
1:08:49
Speaker 3: not something anybody should endorse, except that the president of
1:08:51
Speaker 3: the United States pardoned all the January six rioters who
1:08:54
Speaker 3: are guilty of political violence. Like, it's just very hard
1:08:57
Speaker 3: for me to even like accept that that. like, the
1:09:00
Speaker 3: scandal is as big as it is in Virginia and
1:09:03
Speaker 3: that the National Republican Party is trying to make a
1:09:06
Speaker 3: big deal of this. Like, it's so reprehensible on so
1:09:08
Speaker 3: many levels, given where their party actually is. But yeah,
1:09:11
Speaker 3: I mean, listen, I think Abigail Spanberger, I've I've covered
1:09:16
Speaker 3: Abigail Spanberger since she was first running for the House.
1:09:18
Speaker 3: She's an incredibly competent candidate. She absolutely gets it. But
1:09:21
Speaker 3: what was the question?
1:09:24
Speaker 1: No, just about the text, which I like. I tuned
1:09:27
Speaker 1: in when it when it first broke. And I do
1:09:30
Speaker 1: think that there are some. First of all, it's like
1:09:33
Speaker 1: you're texting a Republican colleague and you are pretty you're
1:09:37
Speaker 1: endorsing political violence. And then you're like, yeah, maybe. And
1:09:42
Speaker 1: they're like, are you talking about the person's children? And
1:09:45
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, well, maybe sometimes bad things have to
1:09:46
Speaker 1: happen to someone to change their mind. I mean, I
1:09:48
Speaker 1: was like, that is some psycho shit. It's bad. No, no,
1:09:51
Speaker 1: it's definitely bad.
1:09:52
Speaker 3: I'm not saying it's not bad.
1:09:53
Speaker 1: To your earlier point about Plattner, though, like, you know,
1:09:56
Speaker 1: he apologized. I think the apology wasn't quite as, it
1:10:01
Speaker 1: could have been better maybe, but he apologized, which is
1:10:03
Speaker 1: to your other point. Who, Plattner or Jones?
1:10:06
Speaker 3: Jones.
1:10:06
Speaker 6: Okay.
1:10:07
Speaker 1: Yeah. Because first he was like, this is a, he
1:10:09
Speaker 1: like tried to blame the Republican and then they had
1:10:11
Speaker 1: more texts and then the apology was more fulsome. It
1:10:14
Speaker 1: was one of those things. But to your earlier point,
1:10:17
Speaker 1: no one's apologizing on the Republican side.
1:10:20
Speaker 3: Exactly.
1:10:21
Speaker 1: And it's so much worse. We're Nazis in the group
1:10:23
Speaker 1: chat and it's cool. It's just, that's the world we
1:10:28
Speaker 1: live in. The Times had an interesting story about how
1:10:31
Speaker 1: a big part of the message for both Spanberger and
1:10:34
Speaker 1: Sheryl is tying their opponents to Trump and how there's
1:10:37
Speaker 1: some unease in the strategist class about missing an opportunity
1:10:40
Speaker 1: to present a more positive vision. Dan, what do you think?
1:10:42
Speaker 1: Is this something you worry about, or is this just
1:10:45
Speaker 1: a story?
1:10:46
Speaker 2: I have a meta concern that the party is continuing
1:10:50
Speaker 2: to run the same playbook since 2017, which is anti-Trump, anti-Trump, anti-Trump,
1:10:55
Speaker 2: and presuming the Constitution still stands, and I'd like to
1:10:57
Speaker 2: believe that it does. we are done running against Trump.
1:11:00
Speaker 2: So we need a message about Republicans. Because if you
1:11:04
Speaker 2: look at, and this is something both about Republicans and Democrats,
1:11:07
Speaker 2: but if you look at Trump's approval rating on all
1:11:09
Speaker 2: the key issues, inflation, immigration, crime, healthcare, et cetera, it's
1:11:13
Speaker 2: all underwater. But then when you ask them who they
1:11:15
Speaker 2: trust more, generic Republicans or generic Democrats, on almost all
1:11:19
Speaker 2: but our core issues like healthcare and climate change, they
1:11:20
Speaker 2: trust Republicans more than Democrats. And that's in part because
1:11:23
Speaker 2: Trump has operated separate from the party in a lot
1:11:25
Speaker 2: of our response. And that's been to his great political
1:11:27
Speaker 2: advantage because it's made it hard to tag him with
1:11:30
Speaker 2: a lot of the very fair attacks we've done with
1:11:32
Speaker 2: Republicans over the years about cutting Social Security and Medicare
1:11:35
Speaker 2: and abortion and things like that. But now it's helping
1:11:38
Speaker 2: the Republicans because it's insulating them from some of his
1:11:40
Speaker 2: worst transgressions. Now, having said all of that, I think
1:11:44
Speaker 2: in an off-year election where you're trying to generate turnout,
1:11:48
Speaker 2: among a depressed Democratic base, I think this is a
1:11:50
Speaker 2: totally fine and probably good and effective strategy. I mean,
1:11:53
Speaker 2: they didn't just pick this off the board. They have
1:11:57
Speaker 2: tested it, and that's clearly the most effective. So I
1:11:59
Speaker 2: understand what they're doing here, but I think we have
1:12:01
Speaker 2: a broader conversation as a party that we should have
1:12:04
Speaker 2: on this podcast on a different day without a thousand
1:12:06
Speaker 2: pieces of news, which will maybe happen one day, about
1:12:09
Speaker 2: the right approach, how to balance anti-Trump versus anti-Republican and
1:12:13
Speaker 2: positive Democratic messaging.
1:12:15
Speaker 1: Alex, what do you think?
1:12:16
Speaker 3: I think we have to silo Dan's thoughts about Maine
1:12:18
Speaker 3: if we want to be able to get to.
1:12:20
Speaker 2: The substantive conversation.
1:12:22
Speaker 3: Okay.
1:12:22
Speaker 2: June 3rd, 2026, we will do this. Is that the
1:12:24
Speaker 2: day after? I think that's the day after the primary.
1:12:27
Speaker 1: Oh, the primary's on my birthday? Is it?
1:12:29
Speaker 2: Maybe I have.
1:12:30
Speaker 1: Oh, man. Happy birthday.
1:12:31
Speaker 2: Talk about your Obama trauma coming to roost.
1:12:34
Speaker 3: Oh, my God. The psychology is just at the surface, guys.
1:12:39
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's hard for me to get. I don't...
1:12:41
Speaker 3: I mean... I hated that story, actually. I was just
1:12:44
Speaker 3: like a fuck barf. I don't want to like... I don't. Like,
1:12:48
Speaker 3: I don't care. Like, just, yeah, I guess. If that's
1:12:51
Speaker 3: what's going to work, it's just... He's doing so many
1:12:53
Speaker 3: bad things. And you can argue that every Democrat in
1:12:55
Speaker 3: the country is actually a bulwark against... I mean, every
1:12:58
Speaker 3: elected Democrat is a bulwark against Trump. And what he's
1:13:01
Speaker 3: doing is affecting people at the local and state level.
1:13:04
Speaker 3: So why not make it national? I don't... I truly
1:13:06
Speaker 3: don't know. I don't have... Like, I just... I completely
1:13:12
Speaker 3: agree with Dan that the party has to figure out
1:13:14
Speaker 3: what it stands for and what issues it's going to own.
1:13:16
Speaker 3: I think part of the problem, and I've said this before,
1:13:19
Speaker 3: I'll say it again, is the Democratic Party is the
1:13:21
Speaker 3: pro-democracy party. It is a big fucking tent. And right
1:13:25
Speaker 3: now it's largely a leaderless tent. There's just no person,
1:13:28
Speaker 3: there's no figurehead that can actually coalesce everybody into having
1:13:32
Speaker 3: that family conversation. And so I think it's going to
1:13:34
Speaker 3: be a while. It might have to wait till after
1:13:36
Speaker 3: your birthday, John.
1:13:38
Speaker 1: Unbelievable. I think if you are a Running for governor, obviously,
1:13:43
Speaker 1: it's good to run on a positive vision because presumably
1:13:46
Speaker 1: you can do things as governor. I think that most people,
1:13:52
Speaker 1: when they vote in the midterms, are going to be
1:13:53
Speaker 1: like what you just said, which is Trump's doing a
1:13:55
Speaker 1: whole bunch of bad things. Democrats can't really promise to
1:13:59
Speaker 1: do a whole bunch, right? They'll have subpoena power, right?
1:14:03
Speaker 1: They can stop any other Trump legislation. They can't do
1:14:06
Speaker 1: much more beyond that. So you might as well not
1:14:10
Speaker 1: overpromise anyway. And I think most people who are going
1:14:12
Speaker 1: to vote in the midterms are thinking, okay, this is
1:14:14
Speaker 1: a check on Trump and the Republicans, or it's not,
1:14:17
Speaker 1: or we like what they're doing, right? So I think
1:14:19
Speaker 1: that that's a different situation. I think once you start
1:14:22
Speaker 1: looking towards 2028, yes, of course, we need to have
1:14:25
Speaker 1: a conversation about what we're for and inspire people to
1:14:27
Speaker 1: actually come vote for something and not just against something.
1:14:30
Speaker 2: It's a very, it's a conundrum because You can't be
1:14:34
Speaker 2: seen as a viable check on power if you are
1:14:36
Speaker 2: not seen as standing for something and being strong. So
1:14:40
Speaker 2: you're probably going to have to– the difference between a tiny, slim,
1:14:44
Speaker 2: barely eked out Democratic majority and a blue wave is
1:14:48
Speaker 2: a significant improvement in the brand. People have to believe–
1:14:50
Speaker 2: even people who don't love Democrats have to believe that
1:14:53
Speaker 2: we are a credible, strong, realistic check on Trump's power.
1:14:58
Speaker 2: And they don't believe that right now.
1:14:59
Speaker 3: Can I just say, I know, like, they did shut
1:15:02
Speaker 3: down the government, which remains shut down.
1:15:04
Speaker 2: I'm not even saying it's a fair criticism.
1:15:06
Speaker 3: No, no, I'm just putting it out there that they
1:15:08
Speaker 3: are standing firm on the issue of health care. And
1:15:11
Speaker 3: it is, like, an important issue. It is resonant with
1:15:13
Speaker 3: the American public. And that is maybe the beginning of
1:15:17
Speaker 3: the party trying to find its way on an issue
1:15:19
Speaker 3: that really matters.
1:15:20
Speaker 1: Finally, we have to take a minute to discuss the
1:15:21
Speaker 1: most bizarre moment so far in the 2025 elections, which
1:15:26
Speaker 1: is saying a lot. Tuesday night's debate between Virginia Lieutenant
1:15:29
Speaker 1: Governor candidate John Reed and Democrat Ghazala Hashmi on Tuesday night.
1:15:34
Speaker 1: It was a standard political debate with one major twist.
1:15:38
Speaker 1: Here's a clip from an ad that Reed released right after.
1:15:41
Speaker 4: John Reed showed up for a debate.
1:15:43
Speaker 2: Ghazala Hashmi didn't. So John debated her AI clone instead.
1:15:48
Speaker 4: Because even a robot version of Gazala has more candor
1:15:51
Speaker 4: and courage than the real one.
1:15:54
Speaker 1: Yes, yes. The entire debate was between John Reed and
1:15:58
Speaker 1: an AI version of Gazala Hashmi. It included fact checks.
1:16:03
Speaker 1: It included sources. He even asked himself, he had the
1:16:08
Speaker 1: AI moderator ask himself some tough questions.
1:16:13
Speaker 3: What?
1:16:13
Speaker 1: What?
1:16:14
Speaker 3: Stop this train. I want to get off. Like, I
1:16:16
Speaker 3: just feel like we'll look back in like 2032 and
1:16:18
Speaker 3: be like, remember when that was novel?
1:16:21
Speaker 1: Yeah. Or maybe we'll look back at it like we
1:16:23
Speaker 1: look back on the hologram of Jessica Yellen in the
1:16:27
Speaker 1: Situation Room.
1:16:29
Speaker 3: I do miss those holograms.
1:16:30
Speaker 1: I do too.
1:16:32
Speaker 2: Or John Edwards campaigning in Second Life.
1:16:37
Speaker 3: I don't even know. I don't even remember that.
1:16:39
Speaker 1: You don't remember? Okay.
1:16:41
Speaker 2: The real ones we remember.
1:16:43
Speaker 1: Tommy will probably know.
1:16:44
Speaker 2: This is post-Tommy, but I'm sure he'll remember us.
1:16:50
Speaker 3: I mean, it does raise the question, should we just
1:16:52
Speaker 3: have AI as governing the country?
1:16:54
Speaker 2: We're headed rapidly.
1:16:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, the ballroom is going to transition into an AI
1:17:00
Speaker 1: data center, and all the CEOs are going to be
1:17:03
Speaker 1: there that tried to pay for it, and they're just
1:17:06
Speaker 1: going to sort of, whatever they do, program the AI
1:17:09
Speaker 1: to just run the country and kill us all. I
1:17:12
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm like Trump talking about AI. What are
1:17:14
Speaker 1: they talking about? That's a big thing. Everyone's talking about
1:17:17
Speaker 1: the AI.
1:17:18
Speaker 3: You don't understand Bitcoin.
1:17:20
Speaker 1: Anyway, we're fucked. But get out there and tell your
1:17:23
Speaker 1: friends to vote. VotesatheMirror.com because the comeback starts a week
1:17:31
Speaker 1: from Tuesday. That's when the comeback starts. Get out there
1:17:34
Speaker 1: and get some votes out. And go subscribe to Runaway Country.
1:17:39
Speaker 1: When we come back, you'll hear Tommy's conversation with Denise
1:17:41
Speaker 1: Farazi from the Pipeline Fund. Before we get to that, CrookedCon,
1:17:45
Speaker 1: two weeks from today. As you may have heard, there
1:17:48
Speaker 1: are a ton of new speakers added to the November
1:17:50
Speaker 1: 7th lineup. Lena Kahn, Adam Mockler, Tim Miller, Pramila Jayapal,
1:17:54
Speaker 1: Jen Psaki, Simone Sanders-Townsend. We just posted the full CrookedCon schedule.
1:17:59
Speaker 1: If you're joining us in D.C. on November 7th, head
1:18:00
Speaker 1: to CrookedCon.com to start planning your day at CrookedCon. And
1:18:04
Speaker 1: if you haven't made up your mind about coming, now
1:18:05
Speaker 1: is your chance. The three of us are all hosting panels.
1:18:08
Speaker 1: Mine's on democratic messaging. Dan's is about Graham Platner. Dan's
1:18:16
Speaker 1: is about polling. So there you go. You get all
1:18:20
Speaker 1: the polling stuff. Alex's is about what Democrats would do
1:18:22
Speaker 1: with the majority if we win it back next year.
1:18:25
Speaker 2: It's featuring three AI versions of Janet Mills.
1:18:28
Speaker 3: What about Chuck Schumer? And Chuck Schumer.
1:18:31
Speaker 1: No, it's actually going to be Alyssa Slock and Brian
1:18:33
Speaker 1: Schatz and Pramila Jayapal. Great panel.
1:18:35
Speaker 3: None of those names are Mills or Schumer.
1:18:39
Speaker 1: Or Platter. That's a great panel. There are limited tickets left.
1:18:42
Speaker 1: Make sure to take a look at the full schedule
1:18:44
Speaker 1: at CrookedCon.com and be sure to grab tickets if you haven't.
1:18:49
Speaker 2: Really putting the FOMO in promo here.
1:19:00
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1:20:22
Speaker 6: My guest today is the head of the Pipeline Fund,
1:20:24
Speaker 6: an organization that recruits, trains, supports the next generation of
1:20:27
Speaker 6: leaders in the Democratic Party. Denise Ferriosi, welcome to Pod
1:20:30
Speaker 6: Save America.
1:20:31
Speaker 7: Thanks for having me. It's so great to be here.
1:20:33
Speaker 6: It's great to finally meet you. I've heard a lot
1:20:35
Speaker 6: about you and the great work you guys are doing.
1:20:37
Speaker 6: So for listeners who have not heard of the Pipeline
1:20:40
Speaker 6: Fund before, can you just explain what you guys do
1:20:42
Speaker 6: and how it came to be?
1:20:44
Speaker 5: Yeah, sure.
1:20:45
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
1:20:46
Speaker 7: So, you know, The Pipeline Fund, I think probably those
1:20:50
Speaker 7: of us who have worked in politics for any number
1:20:52
Speaker 7: of years have long lamented the lack of a bench
1:20:56
Speaker 7: in the Democratic Party. I know since I've been doing
1:20:58
Speaker 7: this work, it's something I've heard over and over. So really,
1:21:03
Speaker 7: it was an idea kind of after the 2016 elections
1:21:07
Speaker 7: when we saw a huge number of folks, I think
1:21:11
Speaker 7: for the first time, in a long time, looking at
1:21:14
Speaker 7: running for office as like a real outlet for change
1:21:17
Speaker 7: and like wanting to figure out how to do that.
1:21:19
Speaker 7: And there were all these new groups popping up, you know,
1:21:23
Speaker 7: like run for something and other organizations. And so we
1:21:27
Speaker 7: started asking the question, like, how can we use this
1:21:29
Speaker 7: moment to finally work on building a real bench? Like,
1:21:33
Speaker 7: how can we make sure that this kind of 2018
1:21:36
Speaker 7: cycle is not a flash in the pan, but something
1:21:38
Speaker 7: that we can continue. And so that's how the Pipeline
1:21:42
Speaker 7: Fund came to be. We basically looked around and said, gosh,
1:21:46
Speaker 7: now we have this enthusiasm for running. We have all
1:21:49
Speaker 7: these great organizations, right? Young people are being recruited and
1:21:52
Speaker 7: supported by Run for Something and Women by Emily's List
1:21:55
Speaker 7: and Emerge. And there's a long list of groups that
1:21:59
Speaker 7: do this kind of work. And it's not just national groups,
1:22:02
Speaker 7: it's groups in the states as well. And so we thought, Well,
1:22:05
Speaker 7: what really is missing is how do we actually connect
1:22:09
Speaker 7: all of that work strategically to make sure that we're
1:22:13
Speaker 7: getting as many great leaders running in as many districts
1:22:17
Speaker 7: as possible this cycle and beyond? And so that's what
1:22:20
Speaker 7: we do. We kind of serve as a space to
1:22:23
Speaker 7: make sure that, you know, the national groups are working
1:22:26
Speaker 7: with groups on the ground in key states to make
1:22:28
Speaker 7: sure we're recruiting great leaders from their communities into the
1:22:31
Speaker 7: most important places in this moment. And just essentially make
1:22:35
Speaker 7: sure all that work is scaled strategically so that we
1:22:38
Speaker 7: have a bench for now and in the future.
1:22:40
Speaker 6: And you guys are focused on creating individual state-based organizations, right?
1:22:45
Speaker 1: Why is that?
1:22:46
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's a great question. You know, we are, we
1:22:50
Speaker 7: really believe that in order to get someone to run
1:22:53
Speaker 7: for office, right, which let's be honest, it's not 2017, 2018.
1:22:59
Speaker 7: It's a different environment, right? And it can be really
1:23:02
Speaker 7: challenging in what was a normal environment to run for office.
1:23:06
Speaker 7: But you just add the elements that we're seeing today
1:23:09
Speaker 7: with political violence, safety, not to mention time. People have
1:23:15
Speaker 7: to have jobs and then they run for office, which
1:23:18
Speaker 7: can be a full-time job in itself. So we really
1:23:21
Speaker 7: think that folks on the ground need to be there
1:23:24
Speaker 7: to work with people, to identify them, to convince them
1:23:28
Speaker 7: that they can and should run for office, to help
1:23:30
Speaker 7: them plan for that, and then to be there when
1:23:34
Speaker 7: they do run to help them find staff and navigate
1:23:38
Speaker 7: the complexities of a campaign. And then also, when you
1:23:41
Speaker 7: become a a first-time elected official, kind of support them
1:23:44
Speaker 7: in that new role because it's really different from campaigning.
1:23:46
Speaker 7: I don't need to tell you that. So we really
1:23:49
Speaker 7: think that the way to make sure that we have
1:23:52
Speaker 7: a bench for the future is to have folks on
1:23:54
Speaker 7: the ground who are doing this work year in and
1:23:57
Speaker 7: year out. Like we are recruiting now for 26 and
1:24:01
Speaker 7: frankly for 28 too. And then to be a center
1:24:04
Speaker 7: of gravity so that they can, once they've got a
1:24:06
Speaker 7: great person on the line, call those national groups and say, hey,
1:24:10
Speaker 7: Emily's List, we really need your help. We've got a
1:24:12
Speaker 7: great woman, but she needs a finance director or she
1:24:14
Speaker 7: needs to be trained. And so that's kind of the
1:24:18
Speaker 7: way that we're going to do this, make it sustainable,
1:24:20
Speaker 7: make sure that we're being really smart because recruiting someone
1:24:23
Speaker 7: in Texas is different than recruiting someone in Wisconsin where
1:24:27
Speaker 7: I live. And the folks on the ground know those distinctions, right?
1:24:31
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:24:32
Speaker 6: Well, I know that was actually exactly what I want
1:24:34
Speaker 6: to ask you. Like in a state like California where
1:24:36
Speaker 6: I am or in Wisconsin where you are, There are
1:24:38
Speaker 6: tons of Democrats who are elected officials in the state
1:24:42
Speaker 6: that you can lean on. There's local parties. There's basic infrastructure.
1:24:46
Speaker 6: Wisconsin's got a famously excellent Democratic Party. But there are
1:24:51
Speaker 6: red states out there that are just kind of barren
1:24:53
Speaker 6: for the Democratic Party. There's no infrastructure. There's no muscle memory.
1:24:57
Speaker 6: There's no institutional knowledge or people who can help you
1:25:00
Speaker 6: identify the person in the community in Nebraska that is
1:25:03
Speaker 6: a big progressive that would like to run but maybe
1:25:05
Speaker 6: hasn't gotten that push. How do you build a pipeline
1:25:08
Speaker 6: in a deep red state to both source those candidates
1:25:12
Speaker 6: and then also kind of steer them to run in
1:25:15
Speaker 6: the right races and then support them as they go?
1:25:18
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a great question. And honestly, one that we're
1:25:21
Speaker 7: like navigating right now because we are on the ground
1:25:25
Speaker 7: in 14 states, but we are actually working with stakeholders
1:25:29
Speaker 7: and folks on the ground in another 21 states. to
1:25:32
Speaker 7: build kind of pipeline organizations that do this year round work.
1:25:37
Speaker 7: And you can imagine you don't get to that number
1:25:39
Speaker 7: of states without working in really kind of deep red states.
1:25:41
Speaker 7: You mentioned Nebraska, where we are working with folks to
1:25:45
Speaker 7: start a new organization. And it's really interesting in these
1:25:49
Speaker 7: states where there's just not a lot of infrastructure and
1:25:52
Speaker 7: there hasn't been investment. Folks on the ground know like
1:25:56
Speaker 7: the way to start that is actually by starting with
1:25:59
Speaker 7: developing leaders, right? We need people to run campaigns. We
1:26:03
Speaker 7: need people to consider running for office. Um, and we
1:26:07
Speaker 7: need to help build like the leadership of, of operatives
1:26:10
Speaker 7: across the state. And so, you know, that's, that's honestly
1:26:14
Speaker 7: where I think a lot of folks are starting right
1:26:16
Speaker 7: now is we recognize we can't just play in a
1:26:19
Speaker 7: set of, you know, eight to 10 swing States. We've
1:26:22
Speaker 7: got to think bigger. Um, and we are working with
1:26:27
Speaker 7: people in those red States to say, okay, Where do
1:26:31
Speaker 7: we want to start? What are the unique dynamics of
1:26:33
Speaker 7: your state? You may not be in spitting distance of
1:26:36
Speaker 7: flipping a state legislature, but we can work on really
1:26:40
Speaker 7: key county seats and school boards, which are everywhere, and
1:26:43
Speaker 7: kind of show what it looks like to have good
1:26:46
Speaker 7: leaders who are not these kind of right-wing extremists governing
1:26:51
Speaker 7: as a way to build. So that's what we're doing
1:26:52
Speaker 7: right now. And it's actually really exciting.
1:26:55
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:26:55
Speaker 6: I mean, well, can you tell us a success story? Like,
1:26:57
Speaker 6: is there an individual... or a state where things are
1:27:00
Speaker 6: going really well that kind of tells that broader story?
1:27:03
Speaker 7: Oh my gosh, there's so many. I have to say,
1:27:07
Speaker 7: it's hard to pick, right? It's like your kids. You
1:27:09
Speaker 7: can't say which one is your favorite, but let me try.
1:27:12
Speaker 7: I'll give you one, a new state that we're working
1:27:15
Speaker 7: in that I think is probably top of mind for
1:27:17
Speaker 7: everyone at this time in the cycle. Virginia is a place, right?
1:27:21
Speaker 7: Every off year, we're all talking about Virginia because of
1:27:25
Speaker 7: their state ledge and governor's race. You know, they also have,
1:27:31
Speaker 7: you know, a strong party and great folks on the ground.
1:27:34
Speaker 7: But we did start a new group there because they
1:27:37
Speaker 7: recognized that there needed to be more state and local infrastructure.
1:27:40
Speaker 7: And so we helped launch a group called Build the
1:27:42
Speaker 7: Bench in January of this year. And they worked with
1:27:47
Speaker 7: partners across the ecosystem to recruit candidates to run in
1:27:52
Speaker 7: all 100 House of Delegates seats. And these are amazing candidates. Like,
1:27:57
Speaker 7: there are majority women. There are lots of women of color.
1:28:02
Speaker 7: But there's also, like, farmers, small business owners, teachers. And
1:28:06
Speaker 7: so we're really excited about what that looks like when
1:28:09
Speaker 7: you are kind of running, you know, in different places
1:28:13
Speaker 7: across the commonwealth. So that's one. But Virginia, everybody knows.
1:28:18
Speaker 7: The other one that I always like to highlight because
1:28:20
Speaker 7: people don't think of it as a success story typically
1:28:24
Speaker 7: on our side of the aisle, and that's Florida. We
1:28:27
Speaker 7: work with an awesome organization called the Florida Pipeline Project.
1:28:31
Speaker 7: And back in 2022, they launched this school board protection
1:28:35
Speaker 7: project to fight back against Moms for Liberty and also
1:28:39
Speaker 7: Governor DeSantis. who has been super engaged in these local
1:28:42
Speaker 7: school board races. And it took a while, they got
1:28:45
Speaker 7: folks to run, but in 2024, we had 80% of
1:28:50
Speaker 7: their candidates win their races at the school board level.
1:28:53
Speaker 7: That's remarkable. It's wild, and no one knows about it, right?
1:28:57
Speaker 7: So I think that's the thing. It's about finding these
1:29:00
Speaker 7: places where you can have local success and where those
1:29:02
Speaker 7: implications are real for people on the ground.
1:29:05
Speaker 6: And it's just a great example of where, boy, you
1:29:08
Speaker 6: peel off a fraction of the money that gets dumped
1:29:11
Speaker 6: into TV ads in the last two weeks of an
1:29:13
Speaker 6: election to do this long-term organizing and you can have
1:29:15
Speaker 6: this massive impact.
1:29:16
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:29:17
Speaker 7: I mean, like if for no other reason, I like
1:29:20
Speaker 7: to tell folks it's a cheap date, right? I mean,
1:29:22
Speaker 7: you can put a little bit of money and have
1:29:25
Speaker 7: a huge impact. I mean, The investment that we helped
1:29:28
Speaker 7: make with partners on the ground in Florida to win
1:29:31
Speaker 7: all those races was.
1:29:32
Speaker 3: A million dollars.
1:29:34
Speaker 7: Like, that's, you know, and I know for regular people,
1:29:38
Speaker 7: that's a lot of money. For politics, where we spend
1:29:40
Speaker 7: billions of dollars on federal races, it's nothing.
1:29:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, the.
1:29:44
Speaker 6: Georgia Senate race is going to be a half a
1:29:45
Speaker 6: billion dollar race. Like, a million dollars in Florida gets
1:29:48
Speaker 6: you nothing.
1:29:49
Speaker 2: Right, right.
1:29:49
Speaker 7: Statewide, and even in a congressional race. So, you know,
1:29:52
Speaker 7: I mean, I think that's the like that's the big
1:29:55
Speaker 7: message here is like we as a party, we have
1:29:58
Speaker 7: to stop only focusing on these big federal races. Now,
1:30:02
Speaker 7: I am never going to try to convince someone to
1:30:04
Speaker 7: not focus on winning back the House in 2026. We
1:30:08
Speaker 7: have to do that. And we also if we moved
1:30:11
Speaker 7: a small fraction. of the money that is spent on
1:30:15
Speaker 7: those races down to the state and local level, we
1:30:18
Speaker 7: could literally win tens of thousands of races in 2026.
1:30:22
Speaker 7: And that's not only now, but that's for like the
1:30:25
Speaker 7: future of who's running for Congress in a couple of years.
1:30:28
Speaker 6: And, you know, our friends over at Vote Save America
1:30:30
Speaker 6: have been running this pilot program where we've been telling
1:30:34
Speaker 6: our audience that lives in Arizona, North Carolina, and Texas
1:30:37
Speaker 6: in particular, to go to votesaveamerica.com slash run and if
1:30:43
Speaker 6: you want to sign up to run for office in
1:30:45
Speaker 6: those states. And we have, I think, 2,500 people have
1:30:48
Speaker 6: already signed up and taken that initial step. Now, some
1:30:50
Speaker 6: of those people will wash out and they'll learn more
1:30:52
Speaker 6: and they'll decide this is not for me, but that's
1:30:53
Speaker 6: still a lot of people. 700 of them are from Texas.
1:30:57
Speaker 6: We've got people in, you know, towns as small as 4,000
1:31:00
Speaker 6: people deciding to run. The average age is 38, which
1:31:05
Speaker 6: is pretty exciting when you think about kind of the
1:31:07
Speaker 6: gerontocracy challenges the Democratic Party has been facing recently. And
1:31:11
Speaker 6: the most remarkable thing I learned from our team over
1:31:14
Speaker 6: at Vote Save America was that 70% of the people
1:31:17
Speaker 6: that have signed up to run for office have never
1:31:20
Speaker 6: done anything with Vote Save America before. I sort of
1:31:23
Speaker 6: thought you would see this ladder of engagement that's like,
1:31:25
Speaker 6: I'm text banking, I'm phone banking, I'm knocking on doors,
1:31:27
Speaker 6: now I'm running. 70% were just like, you know what?
1:31:30
Speaker 6: I'm taking the plunge. Now's the moment for me, which
1:31:32
Speaker 6: speaks to the power of asking and then having some
1:31:35
Speaker 6: infrastructure to support those people. Because it's one thing to say,
1:31:38
Speaker 6: run for office, you can do it. But if you
1:31:40
Speaker 6: just kind of jump in with no one there to
1:31:42
Speaker 6: help you, it's unlikely to go as well.
1:31:45
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:31:46
Speaker 7: No, I mean, we are so excited about this. And
1:31:49
Speaker 7: I also think we're really excited to partner with Vote
1:31:52
Speaker 7: Save America on this like state-based approach, right? I think
1:31:57
Speaker 7: there are a lot of efforts that have been launched
1:31:59
Speaker 7: that are just kind of more broad national efforts. And
1:32:02
Speaker 7: those are great. And I am a wholehearted supporter of that.
1:32:05
Speaker 7: But it's really hard to do this state work. And
1:32:07
Speaker 7: I give you all a lot of credit for trying
1:32:09
Speaker 7: it with us. And it's working. It's really exciting. You know,
1:32:13
Speaker 7: those people that you mentioned in Texas, our partners on
1:32:16
Speaker 7: the ground at Annie's List are literally like they have
1:32:19
Speaker 7: organizers like just calling through and talking to these people
1:32:23
Speaker 7: one-on-one about what they care about, how that matches up
1:32:28
Speaker 7: with a potential office that's available or a good opportunity
1:32:31
Speaker 7: in their area. And then like really kind of talking
1:32:33
Speaker 7: through what that looks like and what it means and
1:32:36
Speaker 7: sending them to trainings, connecting with our national partners at
1:32:40
Speaker 7: NDTC and run for something for additional resources. It's really exciting,
1:32:45
Speaker 7: you know, and I think in this moment, it's also
1:32:48
Speaker 7: really exciting to see people stepping up in this way.
1:32:52
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, like in 2017, when you're talking about
1:32:53
Speaker 6: kind of founding the Pipeline Fund, I mean, there was
1:32:56
Speaker 6: all this energy, there's all these organizations sprouting up, there
1:32:58
Speaker 6: were random podcasts sprouting up, you know, like there felt
1:33:01
Speaker 6: like a moment when we all felt like engaged and inspired.
1:33:04
Speaker 6: And that's been missing a bit, at least, in terms
1:33:06
Speaker 6: of the protests or the visible efforts. So it's great
1:33:09
Speaker 6: to know that all this work is happening behind the scenes. Again, votesaveamerica.com
1:33:13
Speaker 6: slash run if you want to get involved in the
1:33:15
Speaker 6: filing deadlines for North Carolina and Texas are in December.
1:33:18
Speaker 6: So sooner rather than later. Is there a Republican version
1:33:22
Speaker 6: of you guys that's out organizing us? Like what's the
1:33:25
Speaker 6: competition like on the other side? What's the process as
1:33:27
Speaker 6: far as you know?
1:33:28
Speaker 7: Yeah. No, we did a lot of research actually on
1:33:30
Speaker 7: this when we first started to say like, what are
1:33:33
Speaker 7: we up against? And it's really different. The truth is
1:33:36
Speaker 7: they have a lot fewer, much larger and better funded organizations.
1:33:42
Speaker 7: So you think about, you know, the like Koch Network,
1:33:45
Speaker 7: but really there's this group called the Leadership Institute. Of course, there's,
1:33:50
Speaker 7: you know, Turning Point. There's all of these organizations. But
1:33:54
Speaker 7: there are, I mean, I would say compared to our
1:33:56
Speaker 7: dozens of organizations, there's like four or five leading ones.
1:34:00
Speaker 7: And they're all like funded to the tune of like,
1:34:03
Speaker 7: you know, 25 to 50 million a year. Whereas our
1:34:06
Speaker 7: side is, you know, we're lucky on our side for
1:34:09
Speaker 7: these national groups to have $ 10 million a year. And
1:34:13
Speaker 7: so I think the other really big difference is they've
1:34:15
Speaker 7: just been doing this for a really long time. like
1:34:19
Speaker 7: they haven't just discovered this work. They've been really committed
1:34:22
Speaker 7: to state and local work for a long time. And
1:34:27
Speaker 7: they continue to do it every cycle, regardless of who's
1:34:30
Speaker 7: in the White House, who's in control of the Senate.
1:34:33
Speaker 7: And so I think, you know, we are up against,
1:34:37
Speaker 7: you know, a side that is playing the long game.
1:34:39
Speaker 3: And we know that.
1:34:40
Speaker 7: We've seen that. That's not just about pipeline and leadership
1:34:42
Speaker 7: development and state and local offices. It's what they do.
1:34:45
Speaker 7: I mean, So I think it's incumbent on us to
1:34:48
Speaker 7: really think about how we can play the long game
1:34:51
Speaker 7: and not give up and really start to focus a
1:34:54
Speaker 7: little bit more of our resources and time on these
1:34:57
Speaker 7: state and local offices.
1:34:58
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:34:59
Speaker 6: Final question for you. I mean, how can people listening
1:35:03
Speaker 6: get in touch with you guys if they're thinking about running,
1:35:05
Speaker 6: if this sounds exciting to them? Or if they just
1:35:07
Speaker 6: want to support the organization in some other way, like
1:35:09
Speaker 6: can they donate? What's the process?
1:35:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
1:35:12
Speaker 7: Look, we are at pipeline.fund. You can go there. You
1:35:17
Speaker 7: can donate if you are willing. And again, a little
1:35:20
Speaker 7: goes a long way when it comes to these state
1:35:23
Speaker 7: and local offices. I mean, school board races can be
1:35:26
Speaker 7: won by like, you know, five votes and for $ 20, 000.
1:35:30
Speaker 7: So definitely donating. And if you're interested in running, go
1:35:34
Speaker 7: to our website, look at our state map. We can
1:35:36
Speaker 7: connect you to national and state partners who can help
1:35:40
Speaker 7: you every step of the way. And we need more
1:35:42
Speaker 7: folks because guess what? There are, I think it's almost 100,000
1:35:46
Speaker 7: offices on the ballot in 2026 alone.
1:35:49
Speaker 5: Jesus.
1:35:50
Speaker 1: That's a lot of races.
1:35:51
Speaker 5: Yeah.
1:35:52
Speaker 6: And we will not win any of them if we
1:35:54
Speaker 6: don't run candidates. So that is the key. Denise, thank
1:35:58
Speaker 6: you so much for the work you're doing. Thanks for
1:35:59
Speaker 6: joining the show. It was great talking to you.
1:36:00
Speaker 7: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
1:36:07
Speaker 1: That's our show for today. Thanks to Denise Ferriosi for
1:36:09
Speaker 1: coming on, and thanks to Alex for being with us.
1:36:12
Speaker 1: Everyone make sure you subscribe to Runaway Country wherever you
1:36:14
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Tommy Lovett and I will be back
1:36:16
Speaker 1: with a new show on Tuesday.
1:36:18
Speaker 3: Bye, everyone.
1:36:19
Speaker 5: Bye, guys.
1:36:20
Speaker 3: That was beautiful.
1:36:20
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