Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 11, Season 2: Betrayal by the Dollar: The Hidden Wounds of Financial Infidelity

Transcript

Episode 11, Season 2: Betrayal by the Dollar: The Hidden Wounds of Financial Infidelity · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Love Dog Podcast. I'm your co host
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Rena Butcher here with our host, doctor Sarah Hinsley, the owner, founder,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: and CEO of the Love Doc relationship coaching services and
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: of course, the Love Dog Podcast. You can find her
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: at the lovedoc dot com and of course all of
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: her social media handles at doctor Hinsley. Yeah, Hey, Hey,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: what's up?
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Not much, man, I feel like you've been gone forever.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: I feel like I was gone forever too, and it
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: feels good to be back. I mean honestly, so, I
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: just got back from Alaska, and anyone who's ever been
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: or never been. For those that have been, I totally
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: get it. For those that live there, like I get
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: it now because I always thought, like, what is the
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: appeal of Alaska? Because it's dark like eight months out
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: of the.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Year that I don't know if I could handle.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it rains all the time. It rains like I think,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: like three hundred and fourteen days out of the year.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Oh dang.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: But like since I've been there, and of course we
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: took a cruise, so we got to do Sitka, catch
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: a can Juno and then we ended in British Columbia.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Of course, which isn't Alaska, but it was just the vastness.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: And really the wildness of Alaska is what's so appealing.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Because you're just constantly surrounded by nature. You feel free.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: The air. I mean, I kept I kept joking with
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Josh because I was like this air.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: I love this air.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: I was like, I want to marry this air. He
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: was like, golly, come down. I was like, my lung
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: but my lungs felt so open.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just cleaner, less pollution.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Oh gosh. And again, you know, I mean to put
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: it in perspective. We live in Lexington, Kentucky. Population in
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Lexington's like a little over three hundred and thirty thousand people. Yep.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Alaska is bigger than Montana, Texas, and California combined. Total
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: population for the entire state is a little over seven
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: hundred thousand.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I would like that. I know, I get so
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: frustrated in like high populated areas, Like you know, we
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: were in New York two weeks ago, I guess it
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: was two weeks ago, and just it was so hot
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: and there were so many people, so the like the
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: body heat I think just made it hotter. And then
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: the cars. I was so hot in New York.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I was like a heaviness.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: It was very heavy. Yeah, And I was just like,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I made to be My daughter
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: wants to be in a big city. That's like her
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: dream to grow up and be a big city girl,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: New York preferably, or maybe even Chicago, where my brother lives.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: And I'm just like, you know, it was a wonderful visit.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: There's so much really cool stuff in New York. I
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: mean really cool stuff. Lots of culture, lots of history.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Obviously we did you know, yeah, diversity, but I just
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I get kind of clusterphobic a little bit, you know,
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: with lots of people around me. Yeah, I get. And
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: like we took the subway everywhere, and so it was
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: just constantly like this, yeah, just kind of hyper looking over.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: My shoulder, even in Seattle, because we poured it in
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: and out of Seattle, and I mean Josh and I
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: were talking about it, like, I just when we were
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: walking around downtown Seattle and we went to Pike Place,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: and I mean there's people everywhere. It's like Chinatown and
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: New York.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I went to Chinatown and it's overwhelming.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: It's so overwhelming because one, there's so many things to buy,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: and two there's I mean, you can't escape the people.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: I mean your shoulder to shoulder, and it's just so overwhelming.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: And I felt like, like even when we were sitting
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: down by the bay, we were sitting on these like
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: concrete steps, and I was like, I'm going to move
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: down one, I said, because I feel so exposed and
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: there's so many people, and you, like my brain not
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: it's not thinking the worst. I just want to be
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: mentally prepared that if something was to go down, like
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: I could protect myself under like underneath that concrete step,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: you know, like co take guard or whatever. But there's
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: no way I could ever live in a big city. Yeah,
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: I'm a country girl at heart.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: I know, I'm sort of like torn like I like
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: having access to things things, Yeah, but I also love
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: being out in the country. And so that's why I
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: think Lexington's just such a great compromise because it's a
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: very small, big city, so you you still have a
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: lot of stuff, but it's not overwhelming, right, you know,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: you can kind of get anywhere in Lexington in twenty
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: five minutes. It's like the twenty five minute time mark
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: is just where you can go, but I'm ready.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: I'm ready to leave even Lexington. Yeah, I mean I
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: was ready to move to Alaska. It's like I'm staying here.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: I'm not leaving.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: I love easily influencers, am on the planet.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I definitely am, but again Alaska too. Though Alaska I
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: felt so free. I don't know how to explain it.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Like I felt like there was this wildness that just
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: came out and it like in my soul. And I
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: was just like, oh, I could see the appeal of
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: wanting to be here and wanting to live here. Yeah,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: because even looking at the vastness of the landscape, you
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: could feel the wildness. I even went like top down
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: like a rabbit hole one night talking about like think
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: about like our ancestors that lived here, and Josh was
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: just like, please stop, just stop mind effing me right now.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: I can not do this right now. But it was
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: pretty funny.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: But anyway, speaking of travel, travel costs money, Yes, and
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: that's what we're gonna talk about today.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's money. Of course, this is still part of
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: our financial series And if you didn't catch last week's episode,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: please go do that. We had Clint Jasperson on a
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: wealth of knowledge in so many ways.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: So many ways, both on the psychology of money as
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: well as how to use money, how to grow money,
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: how to you know, be love to the episode of
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Your Money, Yeah, there was.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: So much depth to that episode, so please go back
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: and listen to that one. But this one in particular
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: is about financial infidelity.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Financial infidelity which was actually something that was very prevalent
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: in my childhood and it is something that I see
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: happen in marriages all the time. Yeah, and long term relationships,
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: and so there can be a lot of different types
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: of financial infidelity. So we have sort of financial control
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: and sort of course of control using finances. I see
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: this a lot where obviously we probably have one partner
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: staying home does not work, the other partner is the
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: sole provider, and often, I'm not gonna lie, a lot
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: of times it's the man that's the sole provider, and
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: it's the stay at home mom, but not always. My
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: husband's a stay at home dad. So stay at home
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: dads exist. But the amount of control that sometimes can
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: happen or I should say be a part of the
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: relational dynamic, and it's really destructive in that situation has
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: kind of come to light for me, especially recently, and
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: even in a local moms group, I saw somebody posted
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: just about how they get such a meager little allowance
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: from their husband and then they're supposed to buy the
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: groceries with it. It's just why all the kids stuff
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: with it. They're supposed to everything. And she's like, by
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: the time I buy groceries, there's not even a dime left,
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: you know, for anything extra. And I guess it's been
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: a big point of contention in this person's marriage, and
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: she was really seeking some counsel about that. But I
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: think that in those situations, women can feel extremely trapped,
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: especially if the marriage starts to go downhill. It is
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: a million times harder to exit a marriage without having
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: your own income. And so I appreciate stay at home moms.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: I think what they do is amazing. I think it's
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: an incredibly beautiful thing to be so involved with your children.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: But it does take you having a partner that sees
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: the value in what you do and compensates you accordingly
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: to what you contribute to the home. And one of
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: the things my mom told me when I was little,
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: and it stuck with me, and thank god she did.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: I thank god every single day almost. I think about
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: this moment so many times. She said, don't you dare
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: ever rely on a man for money? And she said,
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: I know, you know, She's like, if you want to
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: be a stay at home mom, that's fine, but get
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: a skill. Get a skill that will make you immediately employable,
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: because if you need out, you need to be able
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: to get out. And after having gone through a ten
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: year abuse of marriage, the one thing I had going
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: for me was that I was an equal earner to
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: my husband, and so you.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Get an education.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, I could stand on my own
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: two feet and I had a really solid job and
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: that was the only reason I could get out.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: And I know for a while, you know, he would
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: threaten me because he does come from more money than
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: I do. His parents were much wealthier than my parents.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: You know that. I still thought I was going to
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: get real roaded because I thought, well, if they pitch in,
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: you know, I might be in trouble. But thankfully they
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: kind of towed the line a little bit with him, like, no,
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: you hurt your marriage, like you're gonna have to pay
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: for the divorce, right. So I'm thankful for that. But
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: I was able to pay the retainer. I mean it
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: was a stretch. Yeah, I mean, I did drain my
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: retirement in my divorce, but our divorce got really ugly
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: and the custody battle, I should say, got really ugly,
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: and so it was extremely expensive. But I can't even
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: imagine being married to my ex and him being the
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: sole provider. I would have been.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Just company allowance and it would have been stretched. I mean,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you I just met you when
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: you and your ex were going through the divorce the
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: first time.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: The first round, the first round, Oh gosh, it's so
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: embarrassing to say, like it is embarrassing. But at the
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: same time, like I hear about I called the death gas.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Now, people go back more than one time. I went
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: back like fourteen million times.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: But I was legally divorced and he was out of
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: my home like I was. But se here here's the thing.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: I didn't believe I was free because and I remember
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: even telling I dated a guy who was I mean,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: he was honestly a saving grace to me during that
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: time period. He helped me file the EPO, he helped
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: me stay safe, and I broke his heart and I
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: feel forever kind of a little bit bad about that
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: because I was just messed up. And hopefully I mean
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: obviously I haven't spoken to him in years and years
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: and years, but hopefully he knows that. You know, I
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: didn't mean to. But that's beside the point. You know,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: I remember telling him, but I'm stuck because the post
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: divorce abuse was so bad. It was the stalking, it
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: was the you know, I mean I was stalked very seriously.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: And in the financial control.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the financial control whenever, how am I going
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: to do this?
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: How am I going to Whenever he.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Was mad at me, he would withhold the check of
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: what he owed me for the month, right, And that
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: was a big part of the course of control. And
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: luckily it was one of those things where even if
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: he didn't give me the check, I could kind of
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: survive on my own. I mean it was really really hard.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: I mean we were bare bones. But you know that
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: was a point of an of control, right, like, oh,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: you want this check. Nope, you won't talk to me,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: you won't spend time with me, you won't, you know,
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: because he was trying to get me back, and I thought,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh, could you imagine if this was in
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: my marriage. I wouldn't put up with it, not for
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: one not for one minute.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: And I know a lot of people experience that, And
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I feel like, in terms of financial infidelity, like the
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: financial the financial control aspect is sort of an obvious one,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: but there are others that I feel like aren't as obvious. Yep,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: that happened a lot in.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Marriages, actual, like financial infidelity, like secrets spending, secret spending.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Secret spending was my dad's achilles heel because my dad
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and I do think I'm
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: not sure if it was an accurate diagnosed. He was
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: very heavily medicated all of my life and childhood. I
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: think maybe part of his like mania was spending, and
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: so he would open credit cards without my mom knowing,
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: and he would like charge them up and then like
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: not pay the bills, and he would put them in
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: both my mom and his name, so he would just
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: ruin my mom's credit and he would buy you know,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: he was a musician. He would buy guitars, he would
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: buy amps, he would buy all, yeah, all sorts of
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: you know, music equipment, and then he would hide it
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: from my mom. And then when my mom would obviously
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: be like, hey, this isn't cool, Like you spent one
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars on this and I didn't even know about it.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: He would just get defensive. I mean, my dad never
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: took accountability for anything in his entire life, and so
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: he would just say, well, you get to spend money,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: and my Mom's like, not much, you know, on groceries
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: and stuff.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: But.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Money was I would say the biggest point of contention
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: in my parents' relationship, and a lot of it was
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: the financial infidelity from my father. And it's a betrayal.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: It is a betrayal because you if you don't know
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: that one your credit's being dragged through the mud, and
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: two there's this debt that you haven't been able to
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: plan for or budget for. But at the same time,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: my mom continued to rely on him to be in
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: charge of the finances, and I told her, I mean,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: it wasn't until he died and he was half in dementia,
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: he was still trying to pay bills. And I think
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: it was just one of those things where my mom
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: just did not feel confident in it, like she really
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: struggles with administrative tasks, like she kind of gets frozen.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: You know, because she has had always been sort of
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: the rock of our family and took care of absolutely
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: everything else. So I think the one contribution she wanted
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: my dad to sort of pick up was just pay
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: the bills right and handle the finances. But he was
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: terrible at it. He was terrible at it.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, my mom, you know, Oh, I don't know if
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: I can talk about it because it's so vulnerable. But
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: so after my parents divorce, finances of course were a
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: huge reason why they divorced. So my mom was a
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: stay at home mom all of our lives, and even
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: though she had an associate's degree and she did work
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: part time, like once I went to school, but her
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: goal in life was always just to be a stay
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: at home mom. So, you know, my parents were married
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: for twenty eight years when they divorced, and after they divorced,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: or during the midst of the divorce, she pulled a
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: whole whammy Like yeah, and I'm sure this happens a lot,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: and you might see this a lot in your practice.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: It's almost like revenge spending. So their secret spending during
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: the marriage, and then there's revenge spending whether you know
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: they're getting a divorce or separation. But in this case,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: there was revenge spending by my mom where she just
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: went straight balls to the wall, like ruined my dad financially.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Now the divorce itself ruined them financially.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Did they fight a lot in their divorce so it
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: was like a lot of legal that Also.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Their divorce lasted three years.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Which you know my dad. You know, they had assets,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: they had, you know, like I said, they'd been married
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: for twenty eight years. My dad owned a couple pieces
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: of land, you know. But she wracked up thousands and
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of dollars in credit card debt. She
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: al said. This is what's hard for me to talk about.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: So let me just give a little backstory to my mom.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: All American girl, like cheerleader, beautiful, you know, raised by
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: a school teacher and a police officer. You know, two
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: point five kids, dog cat, like the perfect little life.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: So and I mean her goal, she used to say
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: it all the time, like her degree, Like the only
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: degree she ever wanted when she went to college was
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: a missus degree. Like, yeah, she wanted to she wanted
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: to be a wife and a mother. So you're talking
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: about a woman who had never even had a speeding
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: ticket her entire life. Didn't drink, never did drugs. I mean,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: we grew up with no alcohol in the home. My
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: dad was a Baptist preacher and so her part time
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: job was for the Baptist Association there in our hometown.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: And Uh, I'm getting shaky talking about because I don't
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: ever talk about this.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: I know you don't.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: I don't like this is one thing I never talk about.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: So after the divorce, my mom and I moved to Florida,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: which is where she was from, and us kids knew
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: nothing about this. But she was still working that part
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: time job prior to us moving, and she was embezzling
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: money from the business. And it's so hard and it's
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: hard for me to talk about because I know the
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: guilt and the shame that she felt over it, and
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: she died with that guilt and shame. I don't know now.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: She paid every single penny back, and the irony is
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: is that, you know, she paid like fifteen years of
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: restitution to pay this money back, and then she died
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: like five years later, and so she had finally gotten
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: like the monkey off her back, of like in terms
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: of paying the money back, but the whole process was
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: so traumatic because we had just moved to Florida. I
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: had no idea what was going on. I was nineteen
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: years old, and I remember the night she said set
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: me down outside the house at my grandmother's which is
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: where we were living at the time, and she told me,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: she said, I'm getting extradited, like they're coming to arrest me.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: And I was just like, what is happening, you know,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: like she and she was bawling, crying, and she you know,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: for a nineteen year old for even if I'd been
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: thirty nine or whatever, like, it would have been so
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: hard to process, sure, but I was nineteen and she
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: was kind of unloading all this on me. And of
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: course this was after a just tumultuous, terrible divorce. But
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I talk about this because I know that I don't
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: want to say women in particular. Let's just say people
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: in particular. It happens for multiple reasons, and you can
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: talk about maybe the psychology behind it when someone is
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: in such a deep emotional pain, you know, the dopamine
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: hits that you get from spending. And this is what
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: I think happened to my She was in such emotional
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: pain that spending was her only out.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: It's called a band aid. Right, So there's we could
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: go into a whole episode on emotional processing, but essentially
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: there's two main ways that people cope with negative emotions
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: that are not helpful. The first way is to band
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: aid your emotions, and so that is essentially seeking somebody
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: or something that can give you a quick hit of
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: dopamine and serotonin and it temporarily relieves anxiety emotional distress. Right.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Serotonin is a huge buffer against anxiety. Dopamine is a
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: mood elevator, and it's the brain's reward system, and so
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: it can be a way to band aid, right. And essentially,
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: when we don't know how to truly somatically process emotions
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: and integrate the story of the emotion into our psyche,
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: which is what I teach in my hybrid program. By
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: the way, then if we have more anxiety, we'll seek
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: band aids. Avoidant people they don't seek band aids. They
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: seek suppression and dissociation. So they seek distraction, so they
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: will you know, I was actually just talking to our
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: hairdresser today. We have the same hairdresser, We have the
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: same just about every beauty provider is like the same
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: we see people. And she was talking to me about
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: how her ex husband was kind of a gamer, you know,
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: and she just came to the realization at my appointment
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: today that he was a DA. And she said, how
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: do you know if somebody's a DA, And I said, well,
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: they always have a dissociative crutch, so something that they
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: are very very immersed in order to stay dissociated from
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: their body, which is where their emotions live. And so
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: for him it was gaming. But oftentimes the suppression strategy
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: is work, you know, hobbies, which can be very pricey.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Some people have very pricey hobbies, yes, And so emotional coping,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: whether it's a band aid or suppression, it can be costly,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: not just to your body and to your mind, it's
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: very costly to your body and your mind, to your knowledge,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: your marriage, your relationship, your relationship.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Absolutely so, yes, So it sounds like she was reaching
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: for a band aid because she just, I mean, from
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: what I understand, she never could ever ever integrate the
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: trauma of the divorce, like losing your dad to divorce
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: was just something that she could never come to terms with.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: No, and she never did. I mean, when she died,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: they had been divorced for seventeen years and she was
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: still struggling emotionally from it.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Did she say that she didn't want your dad at
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: her funeral or like to speak it? Don't you dare
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: let your dad speak at her funeral? Like she's said
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: specifically in her will, these.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Were her exact words and her will to my four children.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: I leave all my belongings to my ex husband. I
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: leave jackshit nothing. I mean, listen, sorry, Rick, Rick.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Rick was at my house today. We're close with your dad.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Dad's gonna. He's a great guy.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Daddy's great and but Daddy, would you know, I mean,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: there were lots of things that I think my dad
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: did that kind of pushed her to those limits. You know.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: I don't want to sell my dad out because of
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: course it's a little bit different. He's still alive, but
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: I think that if he was here, he would openly
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: talk about it. I think there was some emotional infidelity
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: on his part, which, again going back to the topic,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: I think so many things when you're talking about financial infidelity,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: like there's so many more root causes of why it happens.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: So in my mom and dad's case, for example, I
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: think there was some emotional infidelity going on outside of
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: the marriage with my dad through multiple variables, not just women,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: but his work, through you know, his social life. And
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: my mom didn't really have those things, and so it
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: was like her only infidelity or her only answer or
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: her only band aid was to spend.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and spending is very It can become an addiction.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Have you ever read that book, like the Confessions of
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: a Shopaholic. I think it's what it's called that is insane. Yeah,
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: that is some insane stuff. I remember reading that book
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: years and years and years ago and thinking how in the.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: World hundreds of thousands of dollars in day hundreds.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Spending can become addicting because it hijacked. I mean, anything
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: that hijacks your dopamine reward system can be addicting. Right,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Scrolling is addicting, spending is addicting, Gambling is addicting. And
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: money is one of these things. Like we talked about
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: last time, that there is a very intimate relationship we
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: all have with money. And I'm not gonna lie. I've
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: used money as a band aid in my life before.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: After my ex died, I went on this and I
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: didn't have the money I did not have the money.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: I had actually zero dollars. I racked up some credit
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: card debt because I went shopping and I bought designer
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: purses and I bought all this thing because I was
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: just trying to like have anything to hold on to
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: to make me feel better, anything. And that's why I'm
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: glad that I learned to really process my emotions because
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: I don't need those band aids. I can gather safety
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: in myself and I don't need dissociation. I don't need.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie. It feels good to dissociate sometimes
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: because everybody does, you're human, but it can't be your
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: primary band Aiding or associating can't be your primary strategy
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: of coping because it has consequences.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: And I mean, I'll be the first to admit that
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: in my relationship with my ex, I was terrible. I
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: was terrible, and again I think I was seeking just
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: any line of dopamine that I could possibly get at
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: that time. But it calls so much much rift between
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: him and I, and that's on me, you know, that's
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: on me because regardless of how he behaves, you know,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: my reaction to it has nothing to do with him
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: and I think that that's you know, maybe where people
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: go wrong, they want to I know my mother wanted
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: to blame my father for all the wrongdoing that she
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: had done, but regardless of what he had done, she
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: had to take accountability for that part. And I take
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: accountability because I would. I would go, of course, we
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: lived in Harlan. I would go like, drop ridiculous, like
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: five hundred bucks at Walmart on nothing, I'm junk. And
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: then I'd come home and he'd be like what is
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: this raina like what is this like? And that's a
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: legitimate ask, right, Like, that's a legitimate ass to be like,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: what are you doing? Yep?
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: And money right now in this world, we have seen
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: such an inflationary shift where income has not caught up
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: even close with the inflationary shift, and it is every
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: single day I see people on social media talking about
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: how much they're struggling financially. And when you have somebody
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: who's committing financial infidelity, it feels like a massive betrayal
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: because finances are tied to your ability to support yourself,
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: to buy food, to put a roof over your head, yourself,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: take care of yourself. And when someone isn't truthful or
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: honest or you can't be on the same page as
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: your partner financially for whatever reason. It's a recipe for disaster.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: And they say, quote money is the number one cause
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: a divorce. It's not. It's lack of accountability. But that
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: can absolutely come with money, right. Lack of accountability around money.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Is a.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Huge predictor of divorce And a lot of people come
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: in to marriages committing financial infidelity because they don't they
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: aren't honest with their partner about how much credit card
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: debt they have, or how much student loan debt they have,
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: or how much whatever debt they have. I've seen couples
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: a lot that are in their second third month month
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: of marriage and this had been this is exposed, right,
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: So you marry someone and then all of a sudden
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: you find out they have one hundred thousand dollars in
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: debt and it was completely hidden, right, But you can't
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: hide it once you're married. And I mean unless you
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: keep like separate accounts. But usually when you're married, you
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: sort of upgrade where you live, you know, you buy
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: another car or whatever to accommodate your you know, joint
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: union together. And then that's where it starts to show.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: And one of the ways that I actually caught my
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: ex and his drug habit at the very very beginning,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: I want to talk about mind f okay. I found
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: out my husband was doing had a drug problem two
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: months into our marriage. You know, I had no idea.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: I had no idea. We were a long distance, my bad,
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: and then when we moved in together, it was freaking obvious.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: I'm like, where's the money, right, where's the freaking money,
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: you know, And then you know, and I was looking
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: in his eyes and I'm like, what are you taking here?
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: What are you doing? Because he was one of those
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: addicts where he could he didn't have to do it
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: every day, you know, how like it and you never
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: hardly see a drug addict like this, but you see
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: alcoholics that are, like, they don't drink every day, but
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: when they do drink, they go way overboard, right, They're
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: more of like a binge drinker. He was more of
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: like a binge drug user, Like he could go days
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: without doing it, but then when he did it, he'd
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: binge and it was super obvious. And so the way
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: that he got around duping me was that I was
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: at the University of Kentucky. He was at Western Kentucky University.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: We only saw each other on the weekends, and he
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: just wouldn't do it when he's with me. So how
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: the frig was I supposed to know? Because he was
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: extremely well functioning, high functioning, and.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: So when he was drinking, he was high funded.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Always. He was the most high functioning addict until he died,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: which was the crazy thing, or I should say till
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: shortly before his death, because he all, he's had a
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: great job, always quick on his feet, he was very
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: high iq, you know, and oftentimes that makes it worse
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: because you can't hit rock bottom right And the same
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: thing with people who have money issues that a lot
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: of times these folks they've had a history of being
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: bailed out, right, Like in a lot of client cases
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: I've had, mom and dad have stepped in and bailed
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: their child out over and over and over and over again.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Then they get married and the parents go, Okay, finally
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: there's somebody else's problem, right, right, finally, like you take her?
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Do you take him? You know, it's funny. Your dad
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: even said that today. Your dad's like, well, if nobody
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: spoils rain and rain, I spoils right now. And I
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: was like, yeah, well you know, I can't. I was like,
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: I'm no better cliche popsch I got I got it
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: from you. She didn't learn this life of luxury from
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: no one. Yeah. But then this is revealed right like
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: two to three month into the relationship that someone has
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: a spending addiction. Yeah, and they have one hundred thousand
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: dollars of credit cards.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine. And I that was a tough one
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: for me because there were there were lots of things
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: that I had to I don't want to. I don't
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: want to use the word confess, right because reveal reveal
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: that's a better word. That I had to reveal to Josh.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: And one of those things was my financial past because
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: I didn't have a good one. And I'm I mean,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: I said it on the episode with Clant. I feel
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: like every aspect of my life I've got a pretty
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: good grasp on.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're very successful, very high functioning. IM your great mom,
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: but you're really good at your job.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: But money is still just not with like not it's
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: within my reach. It's just my relationship with it that
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: I cannot seem to put my finger on, you know.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: And can't really seem to get to the deep root cause.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, I just think it's addiction.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah I don't. I think that's a piece of it.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: I think that's a piece but.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: There because I'm just as bad. But here's a thing.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: I'm not going into debt.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: No, we're not going into debt. We're spending within our means. Yeah,
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: maybe we could save more, Maybe we could put that
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: towards more assets, which is what I'm trying to do.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: And I think what is really really crappy about money?
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Is it such a taboo topic. Yeah, it's such a
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: taboo topic. And so there's a lot of shame associated
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: with money in these situations, and what do we do
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: with shame? While we can either fight and defend against
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: it or we can run away from it. And that's
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: what happens, right, So we get the defensive responding, you know,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: and we get the secrecy and we get the avoidance
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: around it. And it's it's tough for these people because
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: even though the betrayal wasn't with another person, it's still
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: a huge secret that rocks the foundation of in the
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: stability of the relationship.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: And still maybe not to the degree of maybe infidelity
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: with another person. But it can still feel like deep,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: deep rejection. It can still feel like deep abandonment.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I didn't know you well enough, right, you
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: kept this from me. You decided to start a life
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: with me, and you weren't transparent about what you were
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: bringing to the table here. And I mean, I'm so
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: glad that you know what. The crazy thing is. The
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: one thing my husband and I never thought about was money.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: I never thought about money because I denied myself so much.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: And I think that's where my spending now comes from.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Is because when I was married, I denied myself everything.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: Because my husband controlled the finances, I basically had equal
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: access to the money. But I knew he was watching,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: and I didn't want to start a fight I was
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: trying to avoid. I mean, we thought about him having
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: sex with other people, but we didn't fight about money,
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: I know, And so it was just like I didn't
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: want that. I couldn't handle one more thing. So I
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: just went without and I would you know, if I
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: did spend money, it was on my kids.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: I have not deprived myself of anything.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: I did for.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: I don't think ever in my life I did for really,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: even when I was like again, I'll use the little
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: thing I like to always say, Like even when I
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: was living off Frameman noodles in a prayer, like I
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: still would go to my local Goodwill and I would
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: shop and you know, like I had to get that
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: shopping fix. Or I'd go to the J. C. Penny
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: in Middlesbrough and I'd go shopping there and I'd find
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: a way. I would find a way to shop.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it could be a band aid, it
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: could be addiction. Sometimes those two things start fashion. I
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: just love fashion. Okay, now my arn't form and here's
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: where it gets crazy. And so one of the we
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: should we should talk about Rent Runway. We should see
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: if they can collab with us for the podcast. I
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: am such a fan of Rent the Runway. This is
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: from address. This is from I can't even say it.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: Rent the Runway because it gives me my shopping fix
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: with a set budget, and I get to rotate. So
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: I send it back and then I get to shop
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: for five or six new outfits and then I get
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: my little dopamine hit. But it's always the same price
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: every month. To me, that is the most genius concept
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: that has ever because I found that I was buying
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: things wearing them once and then I didn't really want
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: to wear them.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: I'd not believe. The stuff that's in my closet right
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: now with tags on it, you wouldn't believe. And it's
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: because I bought it, haven't had time to wear it,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: and then my style changes. Yet my style changes so
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: much or like I'll just go through like little phases
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: of like where I want to be, you know, a
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: little more fancy, or I want to.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Be a little bit more like And that's why I
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: like the rent the Runway because I get to pick
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: and choose like they have everything.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: We are not an endoorser, No we are.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: We aren't. But hey, if anybody associated that business is listening,
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: please reach out for it. Do us for a collab
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: because I am a big fan.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: I did try it once and I just probably didn't
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: give it enough of a chance. I just didn't like
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: the things I ordered, But I would be willing to
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: try it again.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a learning curve. It's a learning curve with
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: it because like when I when I order stuff like
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: I really dig through the reviews and look at the
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: pictures that people have posted with it on and there's
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: some things that I have been like, oh, that's so cute.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: I definitely want that. And then I went to the
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: pictures and I was like, that doesn't look good on anybody.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: Like that doesn't look anything like I thought it would.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: So then I, you know, take it out of my car.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: This stress is hot by you.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: I know. I was leaving.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: My husband was like, you want And then when she
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: walked in today, I was like, your husband needs to
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: take you on a date today.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're in that funny Yeah, but back to back
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: to our topic. Sorry, we had a little well and
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: I mean this is.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: Actually speaking of endorsements. This isn't an endorsement, but I
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: just we will not endorse anything that we don't believe in.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: Speaking of things that we believe in. Both of us
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: highly believe in the bedget.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, guys, once you have a bedget, we'll
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: never go back. I had to buy I had to
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: buy them for the camper, and now I hate staying
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: in hotels and I'm almost about to just pack them
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: in the suitcase.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: You know how much I could not wait to get
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: home to my bed, Like I missed my animals, obviously,
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: but I didn't.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: You miss your bedget didn't you?
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: I missed everything about my bed the bedget, yes, my
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: temper pedic mattress, yes, my cozy earth sheets, all of
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: the above, all of the things combined. I's kiss it.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Is it is. I can't sleep without it now. I'm
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: so spoiled because I go to bed cold and then
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: I warm up throughout the night. So the thing about
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: the bedjet is it is basically an HVAC system for
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: your bed, okay, and it blows through this cloud sheet. Okay,
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: So it's not blowing directly on you like I fans
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: because I don't like feeling air blow on me. I
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: don't like that. And so the cloud sheet where it
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: blows through the cloud, it's just this enveloping temperature. It
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: isn't You're not having it blow directly on you. And
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: it really does puff up like a cloud, like you're
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: sleeping in a cloud, which is pretty amazing. And you
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: have the ability to have a dual system, so your
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: partner can have, you know, his or her own unit
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: and you have your own remote. You also have a
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: phone app. It was built by somebody affiliated with NASA,
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: NASA engineer. It is quiet, It makes just like a
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: very very quiet, makes just a very gentle hum which
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: actually can law you to sleep. It is worth the price,
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: one hundred percent. You're going to yes, speaking of the episode,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: tell your partner you're buying a bedget. But the price point,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: honestly is it relevant for what it delivers.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: It's absolutely worth it. And you can set bio rhythms.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: A bio rhythms that's the big that's me, that'd be
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: everything for me.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: And it takes I will say, it takes a while
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: to kind of gauge what your body does throughout the night.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: But you can change the biorhythms and it gives you
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: an opportunity to set three different bioorhythms where you can.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: I always love to get my bed. The best way
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: I know how to compare it is like that fresh
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: out of the dryer sheet feeling yep.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: I start hot, I get it warm, and then it
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: cools me down. And actually, the science behind sleep and
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: better sleep is that your body temperature has to lower
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: itself as you sleep. So if you have a helper
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: with that right, like the Badget, it can cool you
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: down as you sleep, which mimics your natural response and
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: helps you fall asleep. Better. So my sleep has improved
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: one thousand percent with the Bedget, especially as a permenopausal
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: women around my cycle, I would always sweat the bed.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: They have a dry function. It kicks into my dry
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: function at a certain point in the night where you know,
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: I know, I'm around the time where I could be
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: sweat in the bed. I'm dry as a bone, dry
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: as a bone. And I just can't brag on this
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: product enough. Guys. I know we had Okay, we have
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: copy points we're supposed to follow. We're not following. I'm sorry, Bedget.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: We're just actually going with our true feelings about the product.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: And that is one of the things when Rain and
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: I started this podcast, we said we are only going
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: to take endorsements that we actually use and we actually like.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: If we think the product sucks, we're not going to
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: sell out and endorse it. So you can trust our
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: reviews that we have tried them, we believe in the product,
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: and we will continue using the product. So you can
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: go to bedget dot com, slash love doc okay as
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: the link and you can receive.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Fifty dollars off. But it's the dual system or the
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: budget plus the cloud sheet. Yes, so those are the
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: only combinations that the fifty dollars off is good.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: For, which is which is a generous discount. So please
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: go check out the Bedget. We are so thrilled to
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: have them as an affiliate.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: You will not regret this person, You can't.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: You cannot regret it. It will be and for our
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: mail listeners, it will be the best present you ever
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: get your own.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: My gosh, I've said that Josh has gotten me a
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: lot of things that I don't use, like my room
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: ba and my foot massager, but my bedjet is the
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: by far, the best thing that he did.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: It was so funny when I was showing Donald, He's like,
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: do we really need a Bedget? Like are we that spoiled?
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: And I was like, I'm sorry, I'm sweating the bed. Yeah,
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: I need something. This menopause is kicking my butt. And
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: now he's like, I can't believe I ever said that
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: we didn't need this. This is amazing, and we just
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: like want to come on from vacation because we want
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: our bedget same.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: I could not wait. I could not wait because I
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: didn't sleep great on the cruise. I will say it
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: was the beds. In fact, in my review for the
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Royal Caribbean. Listen to the cruise. A cruise isn't the
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: first way that I would choose to travel, but it
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: was a great way to do it and see lots
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: of places in Alaska and just really be out on
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: the ocean and see the vastness and the landscape. But
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: their beds need an upgrade, like bad, because sleep is
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: so important when you're on vacation because you're doing so much. Yeah,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: you have to, and then the time zone change and
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: all that. It's just like sleep. I was so sleep
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: deprived on this trip. So sleep. It's like I took
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: a series of naps the whole time I was on
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: the Oh that's yeah, Brilly. It was brutal. So and
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: now I'm jet lagged and still for like living in
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: the four hour time difference. Like I didn't go to
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: bed till after three am last night, but I will
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: say once I did go to sleep, I slept like
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: a rock because of my veget.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: So if you're going to get the bedget, just be
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: honest with your partner about the purchase, make them excited
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: about it. Obviously, live within your means and your budget,
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: but you can get that fifty dollars off. Yes, bedget
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: dot com slash love doc.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: So back to the point at hand again, talking about
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: financial infidelity. We've talked about secret spending. We've talked about
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: revenge spending.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: We've talked about coming in with debt that you do
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: not reveal.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: Right, and then control course of control through finances. Is
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: there anything else?
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So let's talk a little bit about solutions.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Obviously, honesty is the best policy before you get married, Yes,
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: before you get married, because I have seen couples divorce
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: at a couple months in because of this reason, and
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: so it does happen. So just know that if you're
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: going in, you're gonna I know it seems risky now
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: to tell them it's riskier when you're already married. Divorce
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: is also costly, so then you're going to rack up
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: more debt from the divorce, right, if someone leaves you
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: for your dishonesty. And there's help and there's resources out
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: there for people who are spending addicts. I mean, they
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: have sort of AA type programs with the same structure
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: for spending addiction and they help you budget. There's some
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: you know, really great resources out there in terms of
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: financial planners. There's lots of programs you can buy clin
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: let's talk up Clint for the last episode years. Listen
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: to that episode and reach out to current.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Financial counselor because he has so much emotional depth and
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: like what those root causes.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: Are, right, And so we just think it's like, well,
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: just stop. But it's not that easy. If you're addicted
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: to something or it's an emotional band aid, that which
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: is essentially a crutch for emotional processing, you don't know
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: how to give it up. You don't know how to
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: give it up, because then the end result than is pain.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: I think the better solution is to learn if you
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: are you know that you are using money as a
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: band aid. Take my hybrid group. Learn to process your
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: emotions to completion. Learn the somatic strategies, learn the cognitive strategies,
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: because that is a real key to being able to
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: not use money as an emotional band aid.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: And I know this is all I have to offer,
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: but I think a simple solution is, you know, when
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: you have the opportunity, just just spend more time in
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: nature and get more in touch with you know, really
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: those surroundings.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: The free things in life. Yeah, the free gifts of life.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Yes, get in touch with more of the free things
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: in life, which is again I'm a work in process.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: I'm still working on all those things. But I have
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: found that when I get into nature, like when I
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: again when I was on this cruise to Alaska, I
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: could kind of see myself living there and giving up
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: all of the material things in my life, and to me,
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: that felt very free like that. There's a freedom to that. Yeah,
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: And and but I don't know if I'm quite ready
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: for it.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: And and one thing that I learned that I think
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: I will never ever ever doubt in my entire life
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: is that ten percent goes to God. No matter what,
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: that's biblical. Ten percent goes to God. And when you
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: actually give that ten percent, God absolutely rewards you for that.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: It comes back to you. And the more I been
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: challenged to give in my life, and the more I
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: have felt called to give, because I try to be
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: very very generous. I don't care about being that rich.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: I want to be comfortable, which I am. But and
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: so beyond comfort, I'm like, Okay, I can give it away, right,
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: So I try to give it away to charity or
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: try to get I give, you know more, than ten
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: percent to the church every every month, and I should
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: say every week. And it's God has come. It has
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: come back to me too full.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: It always does.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: So don't doubt God. Don't doubt that you are tithing.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: Just don't see it as like one more expense. See
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: it is. This is going to be God rewarding me
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: and placing opportunities in my life for it to come
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: back to me. Just bet on God. And that was
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: actually a sermon that we had a year or two ago.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: Our pastor just challenged us like, of course, you know
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: the church needs money, but you know up your giving.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Give the full ten percent of your income and see
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: what happens.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: And even if you can't give, like just seek God
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: when there's temptation.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: Right, or give what you can. If you only have
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: a dollar, give a dollar, you know, give a dollar
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: to the homeless person on the side of the road. Give
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: a dollar in the offering plate. Even if it's just
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: a dollar, it's a dollar that may buy somebody a
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: bottle of water, or your time.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: To your time. I mean that that service is completely free.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: And I mean back to going back to you know,
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: just seeking out the things in life that gives in
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: life that are free, right, and that and that is
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: those things are priceless, baby, priceless.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: And that is atonement for if you've had you know, greed,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: or you've had some problems with overspending, not.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: To mention, it's something that can bring you and your
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: partner closer together if you do it together.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, yeah, I agree, so seek solutions. Obviously, I'm
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: not a financial advisor, I'm not a financial counselor, but
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: I can teach you how to process your emotions so
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: that you don't use money as a band aid to
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: your emotions. I think that it's probably more of a
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: problem for people than we talk.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: About, oh for sure, for sure, So.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: I think that's a great place to wrap up.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: So, of course, if you are thinking financial stability or
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: just really secure attachment, which I think leads to any
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: type of stability that you're searching for, please go check
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: out doctor Hinsley at the loovedoc dot com. For all
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: of our listeners. We offer a special promo code love
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: dot twenty seven that will give you twenty seven percent
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: off any of her hybrid groups, any of Coach Elizabeth's
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: hybrid groups, and any of doctor Hinsley's courses to which
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: you have access to for Life, so you can go
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: back and revisit it anytime you want. Even with the
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: hybrid group, you have access to the course for Life,
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: and you have access to the video recordings for life.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, so the recorded calls that we do, we do
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: four of them with the group. You can be anonymous
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: in the group if you want to be. You can
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: be a blank screen and you can ask questions via
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: private chat and I will just answer them and not
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: reveal any personal details if you tell me not to.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: And yeah, you can learn the strategies to really become
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: secure and to have your nervous system only be reliant
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: upon you instead of another person or money or whatever else.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it'll give you the opportunity to be more honest.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: I always say I couldn't have gone into my marriage
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: or been as honest as I was with Josh, given
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: the things that I'd been through if I wasn't securely attached,
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: And because it allowed me to really to be honest
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: with myself first so that I could be honest with him.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: So reaching secure attachment. I'll say it all the time.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: It's the answer to everything, literally, the answer to pretty
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: much everything. Because it's just it's nervous system resilience, right,
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: and so you don't rely on Everybody in this world
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: is running from emotional pain, and we have to learn
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: to stop doing that. We have to learn to face
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: our pain.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: That's all I mean, that's all financial infidelity is is
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: running from emotional pain.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: I saw a TikTok, and I cannot tell you who
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: made the TikTok, So I apologize to the person who
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: said this, because I'm not stealing your content. They were
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: talking about addiction recovery, and they were saying that the
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: people that actually recover from addiction are not the people
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: that are like, Okay, well, I guess I need to
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: quit drinking because I'm going to lose my wife, or
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: I guess I need to quit spending because I'm going
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: to lose my husband. Those people never stop. The people
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: that actually stop are the people that are like, screw it.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: No matter what road I take, I'm facing pain. So
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: I might as well just do the hard work and
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: face the pain of overcoming this and face the pain
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: that abstinence from the springs, because all the roads lead
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: to pain, right, So whatever, I'm ready to face it.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: But the people that are like doing it so they
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: don't lose their marriage. They're actually just coming from a
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: place of trying to avoid the greater pain, right and sore,
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: but they're not ready to face pain, and so they
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: move through it, and abstinence causes pain, and I have
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: to cope with pain. So they go right back, all right,
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: right to the addiction.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I thought that was, you know, really
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: really interesting.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is very interesting. And I know that you
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: teach a lot of that in your group. I do.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: Now with that said, we do want to thank our
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: other affiliate Armor.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: Right here in our cups, I have the blood orange
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: in there today.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: M m. You know, so I've never actually done the
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: blood orange. I've always been like orange just really orange
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: just isn't really like my favorite flavor. But I did
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: just order the pineapple, so I'll report back about the pineapple.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: But Armor colostrum is an all around supplement, all around
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: supplement that again I use. I'm using heavily right now.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: I'm doing about three scoops a day, just trying to
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: recover from vacation and get like my digestive track back
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: in order.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: Because it is a fantastic supplement for the gut. And
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: do you know that you have more neurotransmitters or I
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: should say almost as many neurotransmitters in your gut than
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: you do in your brain. Leave it. They call it
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: so a second it's the second brain. And so a
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: lot of mental health, you know, it starts in the gut,
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: but also vice versa, like your mental health influences your gut,
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: and so if you need strong support for your gut,
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: specifically your gut lining, Armora Closstrum is an amazing supplement
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: and it has really helped my skin. I think it
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: has helped my hair, my nails, because when your immune
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: system functions optimally and your gut functions optimally, you feel
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: better all around.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, so thank you Armor. You can use code lovedoc
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: at checkout and receive fifteen percent off if you are
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: a first time buyer, or if you sign up for
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: the subscription, which I highly highly recommend.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: If it mind just comes in the mail, yeah and
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: you got to think about it, you get an even
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: bigger discount if you sign up for the subscription.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: Yep, So thank you Armor. Thank you to each and
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: every one of you that tunes in every week, and
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: if you've made it this far to the end. We
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: love you guys so much.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: Please sign up at our Patreons Yes we want you
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: to get the special benefits of being a patrin
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and get to see the full visual episodes, especially
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: Doctor Hinsley's dress today because it is sa far it
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: is super cute, super summary, So please go go find
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: us at patreons dot com, Slash the Love Dog podcast
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: and until next time, peace, love, and perspective.