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What is a CFO? More Than the Numbers · Budget Your Business

• 0:00
  Scott Geller: I remember a session with a client.
• 0:02
  Scott Geller: We were relatively new and working together and we sat down and I asked him to tell me about his business and about his business performance.
• 0:09
  Scott Geller: So he started talking and then kept going and kept going and after a long time he stopped.
• 0:18
  Scott Geller: He finally said it's been a long time since I've truly talked about my business performance and, for the record, it wasn't very good.
• 0:27
  Scott Geller: And I asked him how it felt.
• 0:29
  Scott Geller: He said really good, not about the performance of the business, but just being able to speak to it and get it out, talk about it with somebody he really didn't have anybody else that he could sit down and talk to.
• 0:45
  Scott Geller: Hello and welcome to Budget your Business, the podcast for small business owners who want to learn how to financially plan for every aspect of their business.
• 0:55
  Scott Geller: I'm your host, scott Geller, and today I thought a solo show might be in order.
• 1:00
  Scott Geller: I wanted to talk about what a CFO actually is and a little bit of what they can do for your business.
• 1:06
  Scott Geller: I know that the usual line is that most people think the CFO is the numbers guy or the numbers person, the one sitting around the table that everyone looks at when somebody throws out a couple numbers that need to be calculated or just then has to answer the question of when budget comes up or pricing comes up.
• 1:27
  Scott Geller: And I like to pose a question of is that really all a CFO is?
• 1:32
  Scott Geller: In this episode we're going to break down a little bit of the CFO beyond the numbers, why it's more than numbers and how a fractional CFO might be able to fend for your business.
• 1:46
  Scott Geller: My father-in-law was not necessarily a numbers guy, although he was more than he admitted.
• 1:51
  Scott Geller: That's what he called me either the numbers guy or the accounting guy and the CFO goes way beyond the accounting.
• 2:00
  Scott Geller: In my opinion, the CFO serves as that confidant and listener to the business owner.
• 2:07
  Scott Geller: It's truly that.
• 2:10
  Scott Geller: The saying is that it's lonely at the top, and for CEOs, founders, owners, that really is true.
• 2:17
  Scott Geller: Most businesses I've come across, there's very few, if any, people that they can have a truly open conversation with.
• 2:26
  Scott Geller: But that's where the CFO comes in.
• 2:30
  Scott Geller: That's the person that sees things not many others that not everybody does in the business.
• 2:37
  Scott Geller: They are the person that that CEO can go to and talk about, whether they're just casually thinking about selling the business, maybe they're having issues with their business partner, Maybe they're thinking about layoffs or just getting rid of one person.
• 2:53
  Scott Geller: Maybe it's that C-level individual, even those business secrets or even having doubts about the business.
• 3:03
  Scott Geller: I remember a session with a client we were relatively new and working together and we sat down and I asked him to tell me about his business and about his business performance.
• 3:14
  Scott Geller: So he started talking and then kept going and kept going and after a long time he stopped.
• 3:23
  Scott Geller: He finally said it's been a long time since I've truly talked about my business performance and, for the record, it wasn't very good.
• 3:32
  Scott Geller: And I asked him how it felt.
• 3:34
  Scott Geller: He said really good, being able to speak to it and get it out, talk about it with somebody.
• 3:49
  Scott Geller: He really didn't have anybody else that he could sit down and talk to about.
• 3:52
  Scott Geller: A CFO doesn't have all the answers.
• 3:53
  Scott Geller: I don't have all the answers.
• 3:55
  Scott Geller: No, cfo has all the answers.
• 3:57
  Scott Geller: But it's also not about just the spreadsheets.
• 4:00
  Scott Geller: They provide the space where you're going to have an open, honest and clear conversation with get a straight answer without the BS.
• 4:13
  Scott Geller: The CFO can serve in a similar role, not just for the CEO but across the business.
• 4:18
  Scott Geller: You know, it's really difficult to understand what shapes us when you don't leave your own little fishbowl.
• 4:25
  Scott Geller: We naturally interact with tribal groups.
• 4:28
  Scott Geller: It's just nature, it's our natural tendency and it's inherent within ourselves to stay with other people like you.
• 4:39
  Scott Geller: It's in politics, companies, education, families, really everywhere.
• 4:44
  Scott Geller: And your business is no different.
• 4:47
  Scott Geller: Think about your IT department, your sales department or your ops department.
• 4:50
  Scott Geller: Sure, they have friends outside their department, your sales department or your ops department?
• 4:52
  Scott Geller: Sure they have friends outside their department and they talk.
• 4:55
  Scott Geller: But really they're probably closer with those people because they're similar.
• 4:59
  Scott Geller: And that's where the CFO role can be a benefit.
• 5:03
  Scott Geller: They can provide cross-department access, they can connect dots that other people don't see.
• 5:11
  Scott Geller: And again, it's not just the numbers, it's breaking through those tribal groups to understand the rationale and underlying needs.
• 5:22
  Scott Geller: The CFO is at a critical point with kind of backdoor access to every part of the business.
• 5:30
  Scott Geller: There's very few parts of the business that don't have something financially related.
• 5:36
  Scott Geller: One way or another it probably runs across the CFO's desk and the CFO can use this insight to drive alignment, understanding and enterprise level optimization.
• 5:50
  Scott Geller: A fractional CFO is a little bit trickier, I will admit, because it's harder when you're not in the building every day, which just means you have to be proactive about it.
• 5:59
  Scott Geller: You've got to push for perspectives, you've got to break down those silos intentionally to accomplish the same goal.
• 6:09
  Scott Geller: I do remember working with a client.
• 6:11
  Scott Geller: They were a startup.
• 6:12
  Scott Geller: We were close to breaking, even growing like crazy, didn't have external funding, saw from a little bit and we were talking through a budget.
• 6:23
  Scott Geller: We had a budget session.
• 6:24
  Scott Geller: We're different groups saying, oh, I need this, I need this marketing budget to be approved, I need to hire these developers to get the next wave of relief, to get the next release out.
• 6:37
  Scott Geller: I need some people to support the operations and the clients we have today.
• 6:44
  Scott Geller: There's only so much to go around, and if each of those groups and individuals and leaders are leaders in this organization, if they are allowed to just operate on their own and throw over the wall hey, this is what I need there would have been those silos.
• 7:02
  Scott Geller: So instead we pulled them all together.
• 7:04
  Scott Geller: We talked to them and said, hey, look, we need to get this release out or we're not going to be able to pick up any more clients.
• 7:13
  Scott Geller: So when you go to that convention that you want to pay for or the conference that you want to pay for, you're not going to be able to talk about it because it's not going to be ready.
• 7:21
  Scott Geller: So, talking about the give and takes and helping these individuals prioritize together allowed us to kind of understanding and prioritization of the funding around the organization.
• 7:36
  Scott Geller: I love Ted Lasso.
• 7:37
  Scott Geller: I thought the show was great and his comment of be a goldfish was great.
• 7:42
  Scott Geller: I think about it in an even slightly different way.
• 7:45
  Scott Geller: Be a goldfish, but jump in a different bowl and broaden your perspective across the organization and hopefully you have a CFO that can help you do that.
• 7:56
  Scott Geller: The other stereotype for CFOs is that we are CF no, so we're the CFO, we're the person that says no to everything.
• 8:06
  Scott Geller: I think great CFOs don't say no.
• 8:10
  Scott Geller: They ask better questions and they get the understanding instead of giving immediate answers.
• 8:16
  Scott Geller: They use curiosity to build trust and credibility across the business.
• 8:22
  Scott Geller: Some of those tools that they can use that I like to use is asking why, and more than one time than one time.
• 8:39
  Scott Geller: Get to the underlying, you know.
• 8:40
  Scott Geller: Get to the deeper, surface level answers and just being an active listener.
• 8:42
  Scott Geller: You can't listen while you're talking.
• 8:45
  Scott Geller: I'm constantly telling my son that he asked me a question I started to answer.
• 8:49
  Scott Geller: Then he starts asking another question and I tell him look, do you want me to answer the question or not?
• 8:57
  Scott Geller: So I try to let people talk.
• 8:58
  Scott Geller: I will try to let people give me the opportunity to give me all the information so that I can make an educated, so I can provide a perspective to them that's informed.
• 9:11
  Scott Geller: I'm almost always sitting on virtual video calls with my clients and in those it's hard not to provide an immediate answer.
• 9:22
  Scott Geller: I really try hard to give the other person time and I actually had a client, a founder of a business client, tell me.
• 9:31
  Scott Geller: You know, scott, you're a little bit like a financial therapist.
• 9:35
  Scott Geller: Let's be clear, I'm really unqualified for the on the therapist side, but I took that as a compliment.
• 9:42
  Scott Geller: I try to listen.
• 9:43
  Scott Geller: The cfo should be listening to you instead of just telling you immediately no, or if they say no, then say no, but tell me why I should say yes.
• 9:53
  Scott Geller: A CFO should have a strategic curiosity and a desire to listen, because that drives better decisions.
• 10:03
  Scott Geller: Okay, so now we know what a CFO does, really does or should do Sounds great, right, and it sounds great and necessary, but I still can't afford one.
• 10:14
  Scott Geller: Maybe you're a small business owner, maybe you're less than a hundred million in revenue, maybe you're only one or two million in revenue.
• 10:19
  Scott Geller: You can't afford a full-time CFO.
• 10:23
  Scott Geller: More than likely.
• 10:24
  Scott Geller: According to a survey by this CFO study benchmark in 2025 by CFOConnect, it costs more than $300,000 to bring on a full-time CFO.
• 10:42
  Scott Geller: That's right On average, $300,000 in all.
• 10:47
  Scott Geller: That's not just salaries.
• 10:48
  Scott Geller: You got to think about bonuses, payroll taxes, benefits, maybe equity in that, performance bonuses.
• 10:56
  Scott Geller: So you pull all of that together and you're talking about a compensation investment of around $300,000.
• 11:08
  Scott Geller: Or look at fractional CFO.
• 11:11
  Scott Geller: Look at fractional CFO.
• 11:22
  Scott Geller: You can get the same skill set at 15 to 50% of the cost of a full-time CFO.
• 11:24
  Scott Geller: Who's it for?
• 11:28
  Scott Geller: Who needs it?
• 11:29
  Scott Geller: Well, small and mid-sized businesses, those that have grown beyond their existing resources and could use that experience and guidance of a few contacts to keep in mind.
• 11:38
  Scott Geller: Controller and accountant might be less, and you may already have them in-house.
• 11:43
  Scott Geller: So you're thinking great, I already have these skill sets, or do you?
• 11:48
  Scott Geller: The cost of finding out that they can't provide that work will likely be far greater than bringing in a fractional CFO.
• 11:59
  Scott Geller: I also recommend starting small.
• 12:02
  Scott Geller: Maybe it's a lower engagement, maybe it's a project.
• 12:04
  Scott Geller: I like to come in and provide a business diagnostic explaining what I see in their business.
• 12:12
  Scott Geller: They can take it, they can share it with another fractional CFO, they can implement themselves, or maybe we can move forward to figure it out.
• 12:21
  Scott Geller: Or maybe we can move forward to figure it out.
• 12:27
  Scott Geller: Finding the right fit really matters.
• 12:28
  Scott Geller: Maybe you need industry experience, maybe you need somebody that already knows your business, maybe it's personality-wise.
• 12:33
  Scott Geller: But finding the right fit, including the right person, really does matter.
• 12:37
  Scott Geller: I've come on with companies that have had no financial guidance.
• 12:43
  Scott Geller: I've come on and replaced other fractional as well as full-time CFOs for multiple reasons.
• 12:50
  Scott Geller: But be okay to shake things up.
• 12:53
  Scott Geller: It's okay to change that financial and accounting structure in your business to try out a new solution.
• 13:02
  Scott Geller: I'm a golfer, I love playing golf and I used a new solution.
• 13:07
  Scott Geller: I'm a golfer, I love playing golf and I used a caddy.
• 13:09
  Scott Geller: I went to a really nice course around Richmond, virginia, that had caddies.
• 13:11
  Scott Geller: I used a caddy.
• 13:11
  Scott Geller: Now I also watched TV.
• 13:14
  Scott Geller: I watch golf on TV all the time and I like to think of a CFO, including a fractional CFO, as kind of a caddy to the business owner.
• 13:26
  Scott Geller: That business owner is the golfer, they're the professional, they're the ones that are going to win or lose at the end of the day.
• 13:32
  Scott Geller: They're the ones that are going to take home the big paycheck.
• 13:35
  Scott Geller: They're also the ones that have to make those really tough decisions and they have to execute and be responsible for their action and their decisions.
• 13:46
  Scott Geller: But the caddy is there to help the golfer understand what is the wind doing.
• 13:52
  Scott Geller: Should they hit a knockdown or maybe a full iron?
• 13:56
  Scott Geller: Should they go for it?
• 13:58
  Scott Geller: Should they lay up?
• 13:59
  Scott Geller: They can ask people to move out of the way, get people to stop taking pictures.
• 14:05
  Scott Geller: They're always there to provide information, provide data to their golfer so their golfer can make the best decision possible.
• 14:17
  Scott Geller: The CFO is no different.
• 14:19
  Scott Geller: The CFO is there to help the business owner make the best and most financially educated decision possible.
• 14:29
  Scott Geller: They can't make absolutes, they can't promise X to work better than Y or Z, but they can provide that information.
• 14:38
  Scott Geller: Which way is the wind blowing?
• 14:40
  Scott Geller: What kind of grass is the ball sitting in?
• 14:42
  Scott Geller: Should you aim for the pine tree or the sand trap?
• 14:48
  Scott Geller: They can provide those types of those bits of information to make a better decision.
• 14:54
  Scott Geller: So the ROI of a fractional CFO to me process improvement, stronger cash strategies, improved profitability or profitability insights, rather faster execution those are some of the ROIs that I try to provide to my clients.
• 15:12
  Scott Geller: Now we say a fractional CFO is more practical than a full-time CFO, but it's still not cheap.
• 15:18
  Scott Geller: It's a strategic investment in your business.
• 15:22
  Scott Geller: So do you need a CFO?
• 15:23
  Scott Geller: I don't know if you see any CFO it depends on your circumstances.
• 15:27
  Scott Geller: But if you do, I want you to realize that CFOs are more than just number people.
• 15:33
  Scott Geller: They're listeners, they're connectors, they're question askers and they provide answers.
• 15:41
  Scott Geller: If you need a full-time CFO, that's great.
• 15:43
  Scott Geller: I've helped clients find a full-time CFO and bring it on board.
• 15:48
  Scott Geller: But fractional CFOs make that expertise accessible to small business owners.
• 15:55
  Scott Geller: I follow in law.
• 15:56
  Scott Geller: You used to call me the numbers guy.
• 15:57
  Scott Geller: That's fine, but I would like to be understood as the listening guy, somebody that can provide the information and make sure you're making the best decisions about your business.
• 16:15
  Scott Geller: So if you're a business owner wondering about whether or not you need a CFO and wondering what are my options, well, think about it.
• 16:24
  Scott Geller: Right, maybe it's time to start exploring that route.
• 16:31
  Scott Geller: That's exactly what I do.
• 16:32
  Scott Geller: I help businesses provide.
• 16:34
  Scott Geller: That's exactly what I do Help businesses bring in that CFO-level strategy and experience on a practical investment, without the full-time CFO cost, avoiding that $300,000 investment, and I like to think that clients see and appreciate the value that it still brings to the table.
• 16:55
  Scott Geller: So think about your business's needs and whether a CFO could push you forward to where you want to go.
• 17:03
  Scott Geller: We always wrap up the show with one to three takeaways about that the listener could put into action.
• 17:10
  Scott Geller: And since we're talking about the CFO, I wanted to talk about three steps to make sure you take if you're thinking about that CFO.
• 17:20
  Scott Geller: One map out what they can do and how they can help your business.
• 17:25
  Scott Geller: Two talk to full-time and fractional.
• 17:30
  Scott Geller: One.
• 17:31
  Scott Geller: Map out what they can do and how you think they can help your business.
• 17:34
  Scott Geller: Two talk to full-time CFOs and fractional CFOs to figure out which one might be a fit and then find the right fit for your future business.
• 17:47
  Scott Geller: That doesn't mean today what you need today might not help you in the future.
• 17:52
  Scott Geller: So you've got to think about what your needs are today and where you want to go with the business so you get the right person, the right CFO, in the seat.
• 18:01
  Scott Geller: We also share a book or a podcast.
• 18:05
  Scott Geller: Since this is the podcast, I thought I'd share a book.
• 18:08
  Scott Geller: It's called Venture Deals by Feld Mendelssohn.
• 18:12
  Scott Geller: That's F-E-L-D-M-E-N-D-O-H-L-S-O-N.
• 18:18
  Scott Geller: Venture Deals.
• 18:19
  Scott Geller: It's a really interesting book and great deal about selling or buying a company.
• 18:26
  Scott Geller: The tagline for it is be smarter than your lawyer and venture capitals, and that gives you a little bit of idea around what it's about.
• 18:36
  Scott Geller: Typically, we let our guests tell people where to find them.
• 18:39
  Scott Geller: I think you know where to find me LinkedIn.
• 18:42
  Scott Geller: Look up Scott Geller.
• 18:43
  Scott Geller: If you're a staffing agency less than 30 million in revenue looking for a CFO program, check out pathpredictnet.
• 18:52
  Scott Geller: Or if you're a small business owner and interested in a fractional CFO, you can also find me at capitisadvisorscom.
• 19:02
  Scott Geller: You can find both of those sites on my LinkedIn too.
• 19:05
  Scott Geller: All right, folks, that's it for today.
• 19:08
  Scott Geller: Hopefully, I gave you a little perspective around what it's like to have a CFO.
• 19:13
  Scott Geller: If you like the show, please subscribe, throw a rating out there or, even better, share a show with a friend of yours or a fellow fellow business owner, or some of you think that might benefit.
• 19:25
  Scott Geller: I'm Scott Keller and I hope you join me next time for budget your business.