Latest / Learned the Hard Way with Kier Gaines / EP 29: Are You Parenting Your Kids or Your Childhood? ft Dr. Becky Kennedy

Transcript

EP 29: Are You Parenting Your Kids or Your Childhood? ft Dr. Becky Kennedy · Learned the Hard Way with Kier Gaines

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Learn the Hard Way. My name is Keir Gaines.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: We talk about purpose. We talk about pressure. We talk
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: about what it actually takes to become a full, comprehensive man. Hey,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: what's up, y'all? Welcome back to another episode of the
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Learn the Hard Way podcast. I am your host, Keir Gaines.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I am a husband. I am a... I can't get
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: over this. A New York Times bestselling author. Crazy. Crazy.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: I am a parent. I am a father. I am
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: a father. I am a caregiver and I am the
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: I'm the co-manager of two humans. And if you've read
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: the title of today's podcast, you know exactly what it's about. Now,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: my my content on Instagram and on TikTok and all
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: the things can be broken down. into two different verticals.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: One would be, you know, mental health and all the
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: things that involve a wellness. And then the other side
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: would be parenting. And I feel a lot of ways
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: about parenting. I feel a lot of ways about fatherhood.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: And they're complicated and they're messy sometimes and they're not clear.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: And I don't always understand the way I feel, the
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: way I think or what I should do. So I
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: had to bring in one of my favorite people in
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: the world to talk to about a lot of different things.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Not football, because we don't have to do that, but
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: definitely like talking to her about parenthood because we agree
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: on it, unlike football. And she is brilliant. And you
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: all are really going to enjoy this episode. And selfishly,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: I got a lot of questions to ask her because
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: sometimes I don't feel like I'm doing a good job
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: as a parent. Now, also, if you're listening to this
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: and you're like, well, Kiera, I don't have any kids
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: and I don't want any kids. That's fine. You don't
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: have to have any of those to appreciate, enjoy or
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: get something from this episode. Because even if you've never
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: had a child or you don't have a child, you
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: have been somebody's child before. And this, my guest today, Dr. Becky.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: can sprinkle some brilliant wisdom and help you figure out
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: where you are and where you want to go. Dr. Becky,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: what's up with it?
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: So happy to be here. I'm ready. That was quite
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: the intro. Here we go.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Listen, I'm going to read off your resume, which is crazy,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: by the way. You got a lot going on. All right.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: So Dr. Becky Kennedy built Good Inside, the number one bestseller.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: the book and a platform with over a million members.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: And the reason Time started calling her the millennial parent whisperer,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: that's what we doing?
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'll show you the tattoo later.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: You know, it's funny you said that. One of the
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: things about Dr. Becky, because she is a psychologist and
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: she's like this brilliant mind. One of the things that
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: I do not like about you is the fact that
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: people don't know how funny you are.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Well, maybe after today. This is going to be one
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: joke after another.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Keep on coming. Hold on. I got more. Stop. I
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: got to read your resume. All right. On one idea. See,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: you threw me off. On one idea, most of what
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: looks like a discipline problem is actually a childhood problem.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: And sometimes it's the kid's childhood. Most of the times,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: if we're honest, it's ours. Dr. Becky, when I am
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: a fully formed adult and I am navigating parenthood right now,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: And there are times where I feel like I am
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: not doing a good job. And on the other side
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: of that, there are times when I feel like my
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: parents could have done a much better job. I just
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: need to hear from you. Is that a normal thing?
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that is the most normal thing.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, I have three kids and I'll start this
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: conversation just by saying that those kids don't have Dr.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Becky as their mom, you know? And so I'm the
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: best parent when I'm on people's podcasts talking about you know,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: about parenting without my children in the room. Because you
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: said we're fully formed humans. I mean, not really. We are,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: you know, humans who've had a history that impacts us.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: And we are still hopefully very much still forming ourselves.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: And then we have these human beings that no matter
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: what's going on, you love more than anyone in the world.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: And at the same time, they don't heal you. They
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: trigger you. And a lot comes up. And we're trying
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: to figure out what to do with that. That's kind
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: of parenthood.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you said they don't heal you because
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: I hear that sometimes. My children are so healing for me.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: It's like, well, maybe it feels good. But also, it's
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: a dangerous spot to put your kids in a position
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: to even seem like they're fixing something inside of you.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: That's a big task. And as a parent, you know,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: you don't always get a receipt that you're doing a
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: good job.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't I think you get that receipt.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: very infrequently. And if you get it at all, it's
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: usually a decade or two after, you know, it was due.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: I think that's one of the most important things to
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: know as a parent. You can do all the right thing,
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: whatever feels right to you. I set that boundary. I
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: say the thing in the right way and it feels good.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: And my kid has a tantrum. My kid whines. They
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: say you're the worst parent in the world. And so
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: forget getting the receipt of, you know, mom, that was
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: a really... It was a really good intervention. No, you
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: get the opposite of that. Great. Now I have to
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: deal with a kind of emotional mess in front of me.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Wow. Inside of here, which is my head and inside
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: of here, which is my heart, there's another mess going on.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: So now I'm supposed to regulate myself and still be
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: expected to regulate what's going on with you somehow. It's
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: an impossible task. And when we fell at that task,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Let's step back from fail. That's a big word. When
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: we don't live up to our own imagined capabilities within
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: those tasks, we don't blame the system. We blame ourselves.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean, no matter what jobs people have had
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: outside of parenting, we've probably had a lot more preparation
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: and support for those jobs than we have for becoming
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: a parent.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: You have this kid. You kind of have a loose
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: vision of maybe the parent you want to be or
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: I think more parents have a vision of the parent
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: they don't want to be.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, man.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: But it's kind of like showing up your first day
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: in an office and you think, okay, I know how
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: I don't want to do this job. And that's useful,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: but I don't know. It's not that practically useful for
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: the moment to moment you have to kind of make
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: a decision.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: We're under-resourced. We're under-supported. Obviously, these days, we're overwhelmed. There's
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: a million things calling our attention, our time, and our energy.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: And then we're trying to show up and do probably
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: what I still think is going to be the job
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: you think is most important at the end of your
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: life and raising your kids.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: But what is that? Is it the moment-to-moment stuff, or
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: is it this weird, slimy amalgamation of All the things,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: how you treated them when they were three, how you
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: learned to back off a little bit when they were
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: eight and nine and starting to get closer to their
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: friendship circles and further away from you, how you internalized
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: what their freedom looks like for them. Maybe the freedom
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: on their side, what it appeared to be, seemed like
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: an attack to you.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if you even just take that moment,
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: my kid is 8, 9, 13, however old they are
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: when they start to say, you know, I don't really
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: want to do family movie night on Fridays anymore. I
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: want to be with my friends. How that feels to
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: you is going to be some combination of the moment
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: and so many things that predated that moment.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: I think so many things that probably predated your child's existence.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: What is it like to be close with someone? What
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: is it like when someone close to me wants space
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: from me? How do we communicate in my family around
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: that balance of dependence and independence? Those things, often we
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: don't have such a coherent narrative in our mind, but
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: we definitely have felt all of those themes in our body.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, I'm saying to my daughter
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: something that I don't want to say, like, oh, so
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to buy you clothing and you never
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: want to hang out with me? And my daughter's like, whoa,
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: I just said I want to go have a play date,
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: you know? And I think that's such a good example
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: of this is parenting. Like, this is what's going on.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: It's so funny the things that your kids say out
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: of just genuine, like genuinely their character and them having
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: different wants, desires, attitudes, proclivities from you. And it feels
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: like an attack. And it's so hard not to internalize
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: it that way because then you could bend their personalities
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: in a way that you probably don't intend to.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that's right. I mean, we take a
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: kid saying, I'm not going to school today. And you're thinking,
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: I'm going to get fired from my job if I'm
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: late again. And it feels like your four-year-old is like
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: lording your job over you or doesn't respect your job
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: when actually your four-year-old is probably just nervous because it's
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: still the first week of school and they're not used
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: to this teacher and kind of what's really going on
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: and figuring out how to honor because it's important. Okay,
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: that does feel bad to me. Now I'm nervous about my,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: you know, being on time to my office. But that
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean my daughter... did that to me, right? But
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: that can still be very real.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: See, now you cooking because there's a difference between you
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: feeling very strong feelings and something deliberately happening to you.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Like you did this to me like, whoa, no, no, no.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: No, it wasn't done to you. It was done and
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: it affected you negatively greatly and you have deep feelings
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: about it, but you can't make an enemy out of
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: a difference of opinion or philosophy.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think this is such a big thing
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: right now. And one of the things I always jump
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: in on because it, drives me bonkers is when I
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: see there's this place in New York City that, you know,
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: my kids bring them up in New York City. So
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: there's this place that has, say, 12 basketball games going
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: on at all times. Right. So my youngest plays basketball.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: We're there. So you witness a lot of other teams
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: playing a lot of other young kids. OK. And there's
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: this thing I notice happening all the time. where let's
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: say this boy's team loses, all the kids blaming the refs.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: That call and the ref and, right? Such a good
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: example of how this pattern can start. This boy is disappointed.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: This boy is disappointed that he lost. And somehow that
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: feeling feels so overwhelming. It's almost like I look outside
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, who did that feeling to me? Who
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: did that feeling?
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: He's seeking missile.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Oh, maybe it's the ref, right? Oh, that
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: ref was so awful. They missed that call or whoever
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: it is. My teammate, if they only passed it to me, right?
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: And unfortunately, sometimes we can play into it. Yeah, that
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: ref sucked. It's true. You're the best player on your team.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Why don't they just pass you the ball? But we
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: missed such an important opportunity. And on the flip side,
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: we end up encouraging a really, really toxic pattern, which
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: is the overall pattern, not of blaming refs, but... When
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: I have an intense feeling, am I learning that something's
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: going on inside me? And it's my job to wonder
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: about that and pay attention to that and figure out
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: the useful information from it, but also figure out how
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: to manage it. Or do I experience my own feelings
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: in my body as so overwhelming and so almost not
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: mine that instead it's almost like someone in my environment
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: is aggressing? And if that's the pattern we reinforce, we
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: shouldn't be surprised when someone at a much older age
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: is kind of still engaging in that pattern.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, when people come in for therapy, talk
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: about parenthood, they're always disappointed that the conversation boils down
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: to what's happening inside of you.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: And what do you see as an attack? What do
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: you see as a threat? What do you see as
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: an indictment or referendum on your capabilities? I had, I
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: had a great conversation with this guy named Mu Tomlinson.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: He's president of this huge healthcare company. And he was
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Jamaican born. And in there, he was just talking about
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: discipline in his household and how much it helped him
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: because he was such a troubled child. And I said,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: you know, what's unfortunate is that you, when you think
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: about that, you think about the weapons that you got.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: And he's like, man, I'm glad that I got those weapons.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: And there's different cultures have different philosophies with that. But
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: I challenged him on this. I said, how, how much
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: of those weapons were because you were disciplinary disciplinary problem?
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Versus you are the most powerless person in that house.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: And your parents dealt with a lot of shit in
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: the world. And now it's not just about what you did.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: It's about the way you made me feel. You disappointed me.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: You remind me that I'm a bad parent. Where's the
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: line drawn? And with so many parents, it's like, what's
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: going on inside of you? Yeah. Like you have to
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: honor those feelings. You have to call them out. But
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: on the other side, I sympathize with parents so much
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: because damn, another thing.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Yep. Like you're already, and I noticed that too. I'm
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: sure you do. You've had a day. It's just a
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: bad day.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: I have days all the time, Dr. Becky, okay?
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: You know, so do I. I need a space to
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: say this, okay?
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Get it off my chest. No, we all do because
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: life is stressful and, you know, the world is so
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: overwhelming right now. And I think I notice on a
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: day where I haven't even seen my kids yet in
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: the day, but it's just been a hard day and
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: a lot of disappointing things. Or maybe you and your wife,
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: me and my husband also kind of had at it
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: your tolerance for for your kid not listening when you
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: say come to dinner.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: It drops to zero.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: It drops to zero, and they are the most powerless
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: people in the family. And so it's almost like we
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: give ourselves permission to unleash, right? But I think you're
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: right that so much about this is, like, what is
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: going on inside me? Where is my tolerance level at?
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: What else has gone on in my day? And then
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: I have a moment with my kid.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: That's... See, when you sit down with a psychologist and
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: they begin to challenge your own parenting philosophy, it is
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: an incredibly enlightening but humbling experience. Yeah, I have to
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: do that often. Sometimes I don't do a good job.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I don't do a great job. I want to
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: talk about what you have going on, Good Inside. It's huge.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: You have over a million subscribers now.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Over, I don't know where that, no, I think over 100,000.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Over 100,000, which is still a crazy number in an
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: attention economy where no one really holds on to anything.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: But can you tell us a little bit more about
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: what Good Inside is?
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think Good Inside started because I'm
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: in private practice. I'm talking to parents. I'm doing talks.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm just immersed in it. hearing how so
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: many parents who love their kids are talking about their
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: kids and struggling with their kids. And I think it
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: all started totally separate from the book before I started Instagram,
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: definitely before I had an app, was just a set
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: of ideas and a set of questioned assumptions. I mean,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: the way I was trained to work with parents was
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: a very punishment, reward, time out.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Model.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: That's so different from your philosophy. Exactly. I would never
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: guess that.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: That's how I was trained. And at first, I have
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: to admit it, I mean, I loved it. It feels,
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: there's something really clean in our body. Like your kid
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: acts out. So you punish the good, you extinguish the bad,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: you reward the good. And I was actually what I
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: was telling parents to do. Okay, my kids. kid is
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: hitting their sibling. Okay, we're going to give them a timeout.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: You're going to take away this. And when they do
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: something good, you're going to give them stickers and all
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: of these things. And what ended up happening, and you'll
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: appreciate this, is a percentage of my clients in private
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: practice were parents of kids. They weren't coming for therapy.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: They were actually coming for kind of like parent coaching.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: But the other percentage were adults, sometimes teens, sometimes couples,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: but just therapy. And what started to really feel off,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: like in my own body, was, hold on a second,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: the way I'm kind of advising parents is at complete
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: odds from a theoretical standpoint from all the work I
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: know is helping adults change their lives. Where an adult
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: comes in and says, whatever's happening. This is happening at work.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: This is happening with my partner. I'm having trouble with
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: my friends. Give me your phone. Give me your phone
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: for a week. And if you don't change your behavior,
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: I'm going to take it away for another week.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: I think they would never come back. And I think
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: they would ask me, what's your theory on even how that,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: how would that help me? What's your theory?
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to make you feel worse and expect
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: you to act better. The math, I don't know, to me,
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: it doesn't math. Right. And so I was noticing this,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: that I felt really good about holding the adults who
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: are coming to see me to a high level of expectations.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: You know, you can do better than this. But that
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: kind of expectation around behavior was useful in that it
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: created a gap. You're a good person doing a not
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: so good thing. What's going on? Like as a puzzle,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: not as a judgment. Truly, that's fascinating. What is this
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: gap between who you are as a person on the
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: inside and this behavior? Let's figure it out.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Curiosity.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Curiosity. And then we'd, Often, you know, think about where
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: is this coming from? What about this behavior is working
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: for you? Because there's always something about bad behavior that
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: works for us.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: There's a reward. We wouldn't continue to do it.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And then, OK, so this is going to change
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: what is needed. And I'd always then set people up
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: with experiments over the week and we'd practice kind of
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: like a basketball coach would never expect a kid to get.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: better at threes if they weren't practicing with them in
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: the gym. No one would say, you're really reinforcing that
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: player's misses by spending more time with them in the gym.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: You should just send that player to their room and
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: tell them to come back when they can make threes.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: It makes no sense, right? And it became so clear
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: to me that this cannot be the most effective way
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: of helping parents help their kids.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Damn, that's how you came to that?
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yes, I was actually... in a session when this
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: all came to a head, telling a parent how to
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: give a timeout. And I seriously said to them, I'm sorry,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: I can't continue. This is awkward, but I don't believe
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: anything I'm saying to you. I really said that. I
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: really did. And I didn't know what to tell them.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: I've been there before.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: But I knew it wasn't right.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: And there was something.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: It's more of a feeling, like an impulse.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: I couldn't keep going. Like, I remember I was hearing
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: myself say things that I had for months, but it
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: was not so loud. So I was like, whatever, just
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: keep going. And this one session became so loud that
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: even though I didn't know what to say instead, it
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: still just flew out of me that this wasn't the thing.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: And I actually think that was some watershed moment where
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: for the next number of weeks after that session, I'd
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: be playing with my kid and I'd have this thought.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: It was so weird. I was like, sorry, guys, one second.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: I had to go to my computer. Like type everything out.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: It was like a little almost manic, you know? And
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: then I'd come to my session and say, okay, I
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: know I don't want to let kids get away with everything.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: You know me well enough. 0% of me is soft
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: or who cares how kids are acting because they have feelings.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: No. Yeah, that's never been the way you rock ever.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: But there's a lot between that and just relying on
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: go to your room or taking things away. And if
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: we think about parenting... Like we think about sports coaching
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: or swimming. We teach kids to swim and we tolerate
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: a pretty long period of time when you're teaching them
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: to swim but they still can't swim yet and we
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: don't expect them to swim in an ocean before they
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: can swim in the training pool and we don't say
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: everyone else is swimming so this is pathetic go swim.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: As if that's somehow useful. Yeah. Yeah. Shame, blame and
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: guilt are they're only useful when you want to change
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: like mass behavior at once. If you want people to
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: cover their mouths when they're coughing or, you know, or
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: say bless you after they sneeze. Like it's effective there.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: But in parenthood, shame, blame and guilt, they're not long term.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: I just think we can do better. Yeah. Like we
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: can do better for us, for kids. And for the behavior.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: That's where it came from.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: That's dope, man. It's so funny hearing you talk about
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: it because we use these tools and the tools being
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: ineffective doesn't stop us from using the tools.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: I really think this whole idea, and it's not every country,
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: but definitely in America around punishment and reward and consequences
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: and timeouts. I don't know why I picture someone writing
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: on these ideas. And it was on the fiction shelf.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: It was an idea. And one day- Some librarian like
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: put it in the nonfiction shelf and it just stayed
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: there like for generations. And we've just accepted that that's
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: the only way. And we have these ideas. Like if
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: you don't punish behavior, you're rewarding it with kids.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Is that true?
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: What if that's not true?
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: And you know what? To be absolutely clear, Dr. Becky
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: and I are not like pushover parents. Zero.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: We can model that.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. This does not mean you allow your kids to
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: do whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that your kids walk all over you.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that your kids run amok in your house.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that your kids wreak havoc in public.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: That's not what that means. I think that there has
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: to be some distinction drawn between being like a permissive,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: like overly permissive parent. Like the idea of gentle parenting,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: I know we're kind of coming up off of that,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: but the way gentle parenting was characterized is a nightmare scenario.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: The therapy office is going to be full in 25
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: years off of the way we characterized it, but also
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: being firm. You can be firm with your kids. It's okay.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: And the way I describe it to people is like
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: the difference between squeezing an orange and holding a baby.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: You squeeze an orange, like, yeah, that's holding it, but
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: You can squeeze an orange so firmly that you squish it,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: but you can hold a baby so firmly that it's
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: just secure. Oh, beautiful.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Beautiful. So yeah, everything from good inside that people see
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: on the outside, this book or our app or my podcast,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: those are all very secondary to what happened, which was
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: I gave myself permission to say, okay, maybe there's a
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: better way. And what would those ideas be? What would
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: that framework be? What would the system be? And then
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: everything that's more visible is just a representation of like
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: those thoughts and, you know, those ideas for parents.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that. Yeah. So we live in a
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: society where people are deciding to either have children later
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: or to not have children at all. And I don't
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: know if that's changing. That trend has been accumulating over
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: time and it's very strong. So, Just for the audience,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about unresolved childhood trauma or adverse
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: childhood experiences and how they show up in your adult life.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: Can you give folks an example or two of what
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: that looks like just so they can kind of have
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: it blip on their radar if it exists in their life?
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: Sure. So let's start with that word trauma because I
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: think it's misunderstood.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: So when I think about trauma, right? Trauma isn't an event.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Trauma is the way an event gets processed, right? And
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: I often think of it as it's an event processed
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: in aloneness.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: An event processed in aloneness.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Explain that to me.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Meaning there's an event that happened, right? And it's often
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: a high emotionality event, right? It was, I don't know.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: I think about I'm always the last one to get
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: picked up from school. And so there's just... you know, minutes,
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: hours that go by and I'm three, four, five years old,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: daycare wondering, kind of is someone around here? Let's take that.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: It could be something totally different. It could be what
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: would be called like a big T event. That first
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: one would be a little T event. A big T
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: event maybe was, you know, I was constantly with adult
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: family members who I didn't feel safe with. Like I
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: You know, didn't feel safe. I wasn't cared for. I
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: didn't feel safe. I was hit. I didn't feel safe.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: I was touched in really inappropriate ways, right? So there
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: could be so many different things that happened, right? Those
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: are both events rather than necessarily patterns. But let's say
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: that happens. Now, those certainly have what I would consider
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: trauma potential. Those are high emotionality events. But the thing
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: that makes it traumatic is that no one talked to
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: me about it. No one helped me understand it. Nobody
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: believed me.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Ooh, nobody believed.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: Nobody believed me.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: So I'll take the little event first and get into
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: the car. And I was always the last one picked up.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: It's scary as a kid when that happens. You don't know.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: You can't survive on your own. And maybe in the
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: car it was constantly, you know, don't complain. I've had
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: a really busy day. So for a little kid, I'm
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: thinking about a four-year-old who was scared, that fear gets
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: processed in aloneness because it was clear from the start.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: This is not a topic of conversation.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You're not available to be my partner in processing.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: No way. And then kids have to make sense of
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: things on their own, which kids have a really hard
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: time doing because their minds are not that sophisticated. And
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: usually kids explained high emotion events that are disturbing or
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: upsetting in aloneness by blaming themselves. It's the quickest way
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: to get back to baseline. This must be my fault.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Something's wrong with me.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: And it sounds sad, like why would a kid do
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: that to themselves? But there's a Fairburn quote I always
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: think about. I don't know if you learned it in
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: your school. It always struck me, which is for a kid,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: it's better to be a sinner in a world ruled
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: by God than to live in a world ruled by
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: the devil.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: No, I've never heard that quote before.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: Meaning for a kid, it's better to assume the badness
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: is inside.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Comes from me.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Rather than the badness is external to me. Because as
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: long as the badness is in me, I can tell
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: myself a story of I need to be better. If
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: the badness is in my parent, if I get hit
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: because my parent is bad, I literally can't survive as
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: a kid.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that turns your entire world upside down.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: The person I depend on for everything in life and
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: the person I need to go to for safety is
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: the person who actually makes me feel endangered. It actually
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: is too much for a kid. If I'm bad and
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: something's wrong with me, at least I can try and
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: I can trust in the world around, right? And so
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: there's that situation. Nobody believed me. Nobody ever said, How
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: are you? That probably hurt. That wasn't okay. What are
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: we going to do about it? No. And so I'm
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: just left alone with this event that kind of violates
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: my expectations of how a safe world should work. But
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: I have to use my four-year-old, eight-year-old level narrative and
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: skill to try to make sense of this enough to
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: feel safe enough to go on. And Sophie, fast forward
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: to adulthood. I always like to tell people most things
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: that affect us into adulthood, not all the time, But
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: they're often, I don't want a parent listening to think,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: if I mess up one thing and don't talk to
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: my kid about it. No. No. We're talking about patterns, actually. Right?
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: So let's even say now you're an adult and you're
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: in a relationship with someone. They're not texting you back
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: and they're on a work trip and you kind of
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: want to talk to them about something, but you can't
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: reach them. I go to my first situation. What did
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: I learn about what it was like when I wanted
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: someone and they weren't there. What did I learn about
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: my desire to be close to someone? What happens after
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: I have that desire? Well, after I had that desire,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: I was met with, you better not complain. You better
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: be grateful about everything I've done for you. There's no
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: place for that. Okay, so I miss my partner. I
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: wanted to get in touch with them. I had to
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: learn to shove that down. That was encoded in a
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: ton of shame to try to get rid of it.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: Usually when we have shame encoded with vulnerability, what that
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: leads to in adulthood is a lot of explosiveness. Where
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: were you? Where were you? Oh, you think you just
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: don't have to call me back? So much anger versus,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: and this is not too different from the freaking referee situation.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: I was disappointed not to talk to you. That was
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: hard for me.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: But that's the vulnerability piece. And it's so hard to
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: open that up because a lot of when I talk
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: to people about their trauma, it always comes down to
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: meaning making. You make meaning of these things that are
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: happening to you.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: But your past has informed what that meaning is. But
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: it's a distorted version of meaning making. And even when
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: you are in a situation where someone calls and they
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: reinforce the idea that, hey, I'm safe. Hey, everything's OK.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: You don't have to worry about me. I know I
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: know you deal with this. You've dealt with this in
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: your life, but it's OK. I'm here. That doesn't solve
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: the problem for you.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: No, because I think what we're really learning in childhood is.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: What parts of me are safe in a loving relationship?
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: What parts of me are allowed?
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Dr. Becky.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Right. The parts are our feelings. Like, what am I allowed?
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: That's asking a lot of people. Yeah. To unwind that.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Well, let's, yes. And we can just, we can take
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: steps because that's all any of us can do. These
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: are just frameworks. So then, so if we think about
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: that question, what parts of me were allowed? Was I
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: allowed to struggle at things? Was I allowed to be vulnerable?
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Was I allowed to be a helpless mess on the
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: floor once in a while. And I'm not talking aloud. Like,
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: are you saying when I was crying as a little
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: kid about whatever little thing made me upset as a three-year-old,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: my parents should have said, I love you even when
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: you're crying on the floor. No real human does that.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that. But when you're young, you're really
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: picking up on lessons around what is safe, what brings
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: me closeness, And what brings me distance? And you better
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: bet if every time I was helpless or struggling, it
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: was met with some version of stop crying or I'll
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: give you something to cry about. Then I learned that
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: vulnerability isn't bad. Vulnerability is dangerous. It's dangerous. So then
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: fast forward to adulthood. My body doesn't know it's 2026.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: It's not saying, hold on, it's 2026.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: People are speaking differently now.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Your partner is not the same as your dad.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: No. I know this sounds so silly, but it always
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: strikes me. The body we're in now is the same
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: body that we've always had. You get one body. It's
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: encoded every single thing that's happened. And if it's hard
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: for you to be vulnerable in adulthood, this is the
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: part people often miss. We need to start with a
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: lot of compassion for ourselves. Hold on a second. If
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: it's hard for me to be vulnerable in my current
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: adult relationship, there must be good reason. for my body
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: to have learned that that was dangerous. Not with my girlfriend.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: This predated her.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: It started long before her. But hold on.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: I must be like this for a reason. That doesn't
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: justify anything, but I have to start with, in some ways,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: some appreciation that some part of me must have learned
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: to keep my own vulnerability so far away and appreciate
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: that that probably kept me safe for so many years
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: before it started working against me.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: And one of the hardest things to do in therapy
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: is to lead someone to a perspective where they can
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: see that the things that kept them safe for a
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: very long time are doing quite the opposite now. It's
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: keeping them away from love. It's keeping them away from achievement.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: It's keeping them away from self-understanding. And the unfortunate part
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: about that for me is especially when it comes to
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: vulnerability and you've learned that vulnerability is the first step
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: to getting hurt and if it's been reinforced in your
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: life in multiple ways throughout time and now you're expected
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: to sit in front of me in the therapy office
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: and be vulnerable like the narrative is supposed to be any.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Different and again i just think as Humans, we're animals.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: We are evolutionary creatures. And so the truth is vulnerability
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: is the first step toward potentially getting hurt. But if
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: vulnerability has never brought you closer to someone and has
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: always led to what feels like danger or hurt.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Danger or hurt. Danger or hurt. Okay.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: Then it makes sense that your body would not want
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: to take on that risk. So I actually think, and
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: I'm a big internal family systems person, I think that IFS,
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: like there's the language around it. And one of the
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: things Dick Schwartz talks about are these protector parts, like meaning,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: let's say it is being vulnerable is really hard because
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: it used to be dangerous. You've developed a protector part
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: that's tried to keep vulnerability far away to keep you safe.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: And if you think about a protector part, If I
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: was tasked with protecting you, God help you, but if
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: I was, I would stand in front of you looking out, right?
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: I would never look at you, right? In some ways,
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying to protect you.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: You can't protect me by looking at me. You have
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: to watch where the danger may come from.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: And one of these ideas from IFS that always strikes
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: me is if you think about this protector part keeping
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: you safe, that part hasn't realized that you're now 40.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: That part hasn't been looking at you. They don't realize
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: you're not seven anymore. They still think you're seven. They
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: still think it's 1982, right? And so I find that
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: so beautiful in terms of honoring that role. Hold on
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: a second. You're telling me not to say this thing
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: to my partner. You're telling me to just keep it
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: to myself. Thank you. Like, this is something I still
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: say to myself. Thank you for your years of service.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Thank you so much for doing that. You carried
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: me this far. I appreciate you so much. Yeah.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: And you can still be in my car with me
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: because you've played such an important role. Just going to
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: ask you to be in the backseat. You don't know this,
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: but I can drive now.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: I'm a full adult.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: I'm not driving in the same environment. You're still going
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: to yell in the backseat.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Don't do it.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: And amidst that warning, I'm going to figure out the
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: tiniest vulnerability risk to take. And there's this dance there.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: We're not going to kick that part out of the car.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: We can't. We don't want to.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: It's helped us. Which sometimes is the default expectation that
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: we're going to completely rid ourselves of this thing.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: No. It's been too important to who we are. It
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: just doesn't get to dictate who we have to, you know,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: who we're going to become.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: That's so good. I tell this story about the first
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: time because I grew up in a... People who want
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: to part, they're probably tired of hearing me talk about
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: the neighborhood I grew up in. I don't care. It's
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: part of my experience. Leave me alone.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Your podcast.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. You can tell them, Dr. Becky. Leave me alone.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Shut up.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: You're a New York Times bestseller.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Tell these people. Tell them what you know. Yeah, my
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: wife and I, we built a house. It was a
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: townhome in the suburbs, slight suburbs. And I'm from, you know,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: a place where you just, people just don't walk up
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: to you. Like that never means anything good for your life.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: And I remember we were sitting in my driveway and
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: every car that passed by, I was looking in the car.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: I was looking in every car. And my cousin said, hey, bro,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: you ain't got to do that anymore, man. My brain
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: didn't realize that I didn't live in the projects anymore. Like, hey,
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: you don't have to do that. Did it stop me
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: from doing it? No. But what that awareness allowed me
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: to do was gently self-correct when I noticed myself doing it.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Just slightly scooch my mind back towards safety. Like, hey,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: no one's going to walk up. And shoot you in
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: the face. That's not going to happen here. You don't
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: you can relax. You can put your mind on just
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: being present.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: And there's something useful about also adding like and you're right. Yeah.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: And you're right. And you're right. Damn. That used to
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: that was very true.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And especially with men in therapy, like everything you're saying,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: you spot on and you make it so much sense.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: When I work with women in therapy, we have these
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: challenges too. But with men, it's so specific where there
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: is this automatic deflection of your big T, little t.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I saw my dad punch my mom
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: in the face, but the dude across the street, his
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: dad shot his mom. So I can't complain. Like, yeah,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: none of the girls in the class thought I was attractive,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: but at least I didn't get beat up by the
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: boys in class. Like, no, there's no at least but.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Like let's, let's at least honor the first thing you
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: said without feeling silly that you still feel a way
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: about it, even though it's 20 years later.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: I want to share what's on my mind as you
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: say that, because when you say that, I think not better,
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: just slightly different intervention, which is just, Oh, like there's that,
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: there's that guy again. What guy? Like that must've, I
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: think you're meeting a part of that person. There's probably,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: that's a form of protection. This, at least it's not this,
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: like that's, That's useful. That's a part of them. Oh,
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: there's that thing again. What thing? Whenever I bring up
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: something that seems hard, there's this part of you that
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: tells me at least it's not this. And I'm not
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: trying to get rid of that part. The truth is
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: that must have served you. That must have served someone
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: for a very long time to minimize through comparison. That
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: was probably useful for decades, right? Yeah.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, comparatively, it allows you to feel like
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: your circumstances aren't as dire as maybe they actually are.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: It allows you to find safety. It's a form of
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: finding safety. I can feel safe watching my dad punch
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: my mom because the dude across the street is, I
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: don't know, whatever it is, strangling her, you know, and
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: actually it did kill her. Okay, so the truth is,
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: as a kid, there's nothing more important than figuring out
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: how to feel safe enough to continue in the world
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: so you're not just in your bed unable to function. So,
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: That's a really, again, has costs later on. But at
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: the time, that's a pretty crafty strategy for a young kid.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite things about IFS. It doesn't
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: make you internal family systems. It's a way of doing therapy.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: My bad, I'm nerding out a little bit. I'm a
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: big Frank Anderson guy, so I'm just a huge fan.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: But it allows you to carry those things that you
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: may have a bad relationship with, with you. Like they're
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: still a part of you and they're not necessarily a
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: terrible thing. Yes. Hey, hold on, y'all. Real quick. My
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: very first book, It All Starts When You Do, is
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: available right now. If this podcast has ever helped you,
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: I think this book will, too. I want you to
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: just search It All Starts When You Do by care gains,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: wherever you get your books. You say that kids should
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: have a voice, but that doesn't mean that they always
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: get a vote. Where what does that mean? Where is
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: the line? Because I personally agree with you, but I
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: also struggle with this sometimes. I struggle with it often,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: more often than not.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, I should just say again,
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: I struggle with my own ideas. Like me and my
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: husband often are like, that Dr. Becky doesn't know what
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: she's talking about. Forget that advice. Because when we're frustrated,
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: we just want our kids to fall in line.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be nice?
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: And sometimes you need that. So I'm not saying that's
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: all wrong. I think, and we were kind of talking
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: about it before, but we have had this overcorrection in parenting.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: We've gone from, I don't give a shit about my kids' feelings.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: Who cares about kids' feelings? Two, my kids' feelings now
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: dictate my parental decisions.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Insane pendulum swing.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: That's right. And the reason I'm so glad you said
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: that is there's so much in between. It's just simultaneously
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: with that overcorrection as a world, we've had an increasingly
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: hard time finding anything in the middle and holding two
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: things at once.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's the bane of the existence of the Internet.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: That's exactly right. And I think what's in the middle
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: is this idea that kids can get a voice back.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: without always getting a vote. So here's an example. Let's
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: say you're taking your daughter's, I don't know, what's something
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: they wouldn't want to do? Like a great uncle's 85th
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: birthday lunch?
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: You don't want to do it either. No one wants
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: to do it, but you're going to it because it's
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: a family and we all have to do those things. Okay, fine.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: You're telling your daughter, she's like, I don't want to go, right?
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: And again, if I think about old school parenting, stop whining,
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: or I'm going to take this away, or go to
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: your room, or here's some immediately disciplinary action just because
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: my kid is complaining. The issue with that long-term is,
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: number one, our kids are only going to listen to
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: us as they get older if we have some type
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: of good relationship with them. Because at some point, they
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: don't care about our stickers. They don't care about our punishment.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: They're like, I'm 16. What are you going to do
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: about it? Really short-sighted and the cost of a 16-year-old
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: not having a good relationship with his or her parents
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: these days has never been higher because what kids are
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: facing is just so much more complicated.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: And they're way more exposed.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: But the overcorrection I'm seeing, which is, I think, almost
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: equally as bad for kids is, oh, you don't want
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: to go? Okay, we will. Your wife will stay home
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: with her. You find a babysitter. Like, The first version
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: is I don't want my kids to have a voice.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: The second version is my kid always gets a vote.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: To me, what's in the middle? And that's why at
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Good Inside we call it sturdy parenting because sturdy people
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: are able to stay connected to other people but not
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: lose connection with themselves in the process. And I think
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: that version is a voice without a vote. I get it.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: It's not going to be the most fun part of
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: your weekend. You know what? Get your wines out now.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'll wine with you. Let's complain. Let's wine. Because
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: when we get in the car and when we get there,
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: I'm expecting good behavior. I'm expecting you to talk to
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: your family members. And as a family, we do things
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: sometimes that aren't peak fun for us because that's what
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: it means to be a good person. I love you.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: We're going to do it. That's a voice, but not
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: always a vote.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Yes. I say that my kids all the time. You
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: are allowed to be upset. I completely understand why, but
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: we're doing this.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: This is what we're doing.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: You know, a line I said recently that people are like,
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: I'm allowed to say that? Like, you bet you're allowed
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: to say that. This decision has already been made. I
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: want to tell you about a decision I've made. Not,
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: what do you think? We're going to turn off the TV, okay?
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Why am I saying okay?
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: The TV is off. I'm not asking you a question.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: I'm making you aware of what's about to happen.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: That's right. And you're allowed to be upset.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: And I care about your upset. And that doesn't mean
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: I'm changing my decision. Both are just true.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: You know, I tell my kids all the time, hearing
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: you and listening to you and understanding you does not
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: mean that I'll agree.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: And because we want our kids to become adults... who
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: advocate for themselves.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: For sure.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: But advocating for your opinions We don't want kids to
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: learn from childhood that advocating for what I want means
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: I am entitled to get what I want.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: That's that meaning making again, right?
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: That's right. That's not the story we want them to carry.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: So if we want our kids to be advocates and
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: to be outspoken about things that matter, we can't have
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: a childhood of pure subservience. It doesn't translate. But also
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: if we want our kids to be able to function
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: in the world, they can't learn that every time they
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: have an upset feeling, the whole world changes around them.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: One of the greatest gifts that I've given myself is
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: becoming more okay with my kids being upset with me.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: I get it. I'd be mad if I were you too. Exactly.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: This decision is not changing.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That kind of set me free because sometimes you
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: don't want to rock the boat, you know? You just
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: want everything to be cool in the house, no attitude.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: And some percentage of the time, give ourselves permission. We
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: just got to like give them the M & Ms
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: and make the situation easy. But I think what you said,
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: a good line, just because sometimes it's helpful to have
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: it in our head, is something that I felt really
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: good saying to my kids is, look, I'm not changing
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: my mind. I love you so much that I'm willing
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: to make decisions that I think are good for you long-term,
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: even if you're upset with me today. And when I
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: hear myself say that again, my kid doesn't say clap
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: it up for mom.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: You're right, mom. Thanks for setting me straight.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: I feel like I'm really living my values. When I
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: say that, it makes it a little easier to tolerate
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: the whining.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Hmm. I'll try that. The whining is, the whining is
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: hard for me. It pisses me off to the highest
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: level of positivity. It's, it's, okay. I just felt something
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: talking about it. It's like, hey, I heard you the
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: first time.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: I heard you the first time.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: Were you allowed to be a helpless mess as a kid?
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: Ironically, yeah.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: You were?
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, my mom was ahead of her time. Yeah, my
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: mom preached the philosophies in the 80s that parents are
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: preaching now. And I think that's the reason I came
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: out this way. Yeah, you were allowed to be angry
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: to a point. I think there's something that happens with
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: boys and their moms when you start to Assert your
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: independence and you remind her of the men in the
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: world that it probably didn't feel good to be around
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: and that independence start to become like, oh, you're challenging me.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: So I'm not challenging you. I just see the world
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: differently from you. Yeah. So recently you had. You had
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: a piece of content where you talked about how to
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: talk to a child about their self-esteem and what to
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: do if your child says they feel like they're ugly.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: And in my book, I have this story where like
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: sometimes people will tell you things and the answer you
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: give them back is more of a reflection or projection
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: than it is addressing the problem that they have. And
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: it's this woman who's talking to her friend and she's
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: getting ready in the mirror and she says, oh, girl,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: I'm fine. I'm fat. And her friend says, no, you're not.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: You're beautiful. You're gorgeous. You're amazing. You're the most beautiful
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: thing I've ever met. And she said, bitch, I said,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: I'm fat, not ugly. She didn't answer that. She didn't
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: address what the friend was talking about. She was, she
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: was answering a whole nother question. And if your friend
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: comes and says, you know, I know your friend, but
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: if your child comes and says, Mom, I feel ugly. Dad,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: I feel ugly. Conventional wisdom says to say what?
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: Well, conventional wisdom would say you're beautiful. No, you're not.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: Something like that.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: But your argument is that's not the thing to do.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And again, it's not like I think you should
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: say like your face is busted. You know, don't say
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: that again. There's so much in between. But I think
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: it gets to the question of what is confidence and
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: what is self-esteem. So let me just say that and
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: then we'll get to like more practically what I'd say.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: I don't think confidence is feeling good about yourself. And
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: I think we've been fed that definition. And if you
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: think about confidence or self-esteem as someone who feels good
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: about themselves, then when your kid says, I'm ugly, I'm stupid,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: you want to optimize for feeling good. You're beautiful. You're
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: so smart. You're good at soccer. What we try to
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: get them out of that moment and into a better
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: feeling moment. I think confidence is self-trust. which is very
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: different than feeling good. Confidence is our ability to trust ourselves.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: If you think about someone saying, how confident are you
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: that your flight is at five in the morning? They're
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: not asking you, do you feel good about a 5 a.m.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Flight?
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: No, nobody does. They're asking you how much you're sure
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: something is true, right? If we think about confidence in
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: that way, a kid comes to a parent and says,
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: I'm ugly. I feel ugly. If a kid says that
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: to us, my guess is, There's something that feels true
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: and painful to them in that moment. And ironically, when
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: we try to take them out of it and convince
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: them of something good, I would actually say we make
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: the kid less confident. Because the kid is saying, I
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: have a type of pain. And the parent's saying, no,
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: you don't.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: No, you don't.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: Just look at the fun rainbow over there. Everything will
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: be fine. It actually makes me trust myself less. So
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: what would I actually do? First of all, I think
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: one of the most underutilized parenting strategies there is, is
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: saying nothing and like counting to 10 in your head
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: and just seeing what happens next. Okay.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa. You're saying to say nothing, count
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: to 10 and just wait for what happens next.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: Well, I have a million stories and I've tried this
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: in the last couple of weeks in my house of
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: what happens when I just wait, whatever it is. My
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: kid yells at me, wait, maybe they'll apologize to me
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: before I lecture them. And it's crazy how often waiting
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: and just giving someone time helps. But the reason here,
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: I say it, when a kid says, I'm ugly, something
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: probably happened that day. And when we're upset, kids and adults,
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: we tend to speak in extreme language and extreme language
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: is global. I'm ugly. But there's probably something specific that
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: happened that I often think a kid kind of says
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: to a parent, I'm ugly. And it's like a door.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: They're kind of saying, will you walk through this door
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: with me so I can take you into the room
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: of whatever happened that day at lunch that I want
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: to tell you about? It's an invitation. And we're at
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: the door and we slam it. And the sad thing
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: is we never get to the room with them. Like,
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: you're not ugly. We're not going in that room. Which,
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: number one, we don't hear about the story. Number two,
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: the next time my kid feels ugly, which is going
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: to happen for the rest of their life, not because
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: they're ugly, just because we all have those thoughts, they
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: feel like they can't talk to us about it. So
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: what would I actually do? If I wait, and I've
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: done this with my own kids, I'm stupid. When I
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: say wait here for 10 seconds, I'm not like, I'll
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: be back. No. Like, stay there. Be like, and I'll
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: look at them lovingly, like, And it gives your kid
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: a little bit of time and sounds crazy, but very
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: often your kid says, yeah, I was trying on this shirt.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: And I don't know, whatever the thing is, that's the
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: actual story that led to this first global proclamation that
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: was actually just a door to tell you that story.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: That's number one. Just wait and see if your kid
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: tells you more. Number two, this might sound weird, but
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: things like, That's the most painful thought. Or I've had
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: that thought about myself too.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: Validating a humanizing experience.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: And I always think when we tell our kid, we've
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: in some way been there too. I always say like
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: telling your kid in a random moment, anything that starts
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: with the phrase, did I ever tell you about the time?
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: Did I ever tell you about the time I was
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: in first grade and everyone got a chapter book but me?
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: I was the only one who couldn't read a chapter book.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: Did I ever tell you about the time I tried
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: out for this team and didn't make it. Did I
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: ever tell you when I was a starter on the
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: soccer team for two years and then some freshman came
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: and took the starting position, I had to go to
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: all these practices watching this girl take my position? May
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: or may not have happened. Whoa, we'll talk after. Those
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: stories are a way of saying you're not the only one.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: And so much of our struggle with hard moments or
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: hard thought, like I'm stupid or I'm ugly, it's actually
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: feeling like we're the only one. And in a way,
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: you're making the thought a little less scary in a way,
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: a little safer to have, which takes away some of
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: the power of it.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like I'm getting in a boat with you
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: and I'm humanizing your experience. And I'm also cracking this
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: veneer of me being an impenetrable emotional fortress.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: Where I've experienced these things too. And if you see
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: me as a person who's confident now, you can subconsciously
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: see yourself moving past this moment.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: And just going to that word confident, if I am
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: not scared of my kid having certain thoughts, if I,
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: going back to what parts of me are connectable, if
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: my kid learns, even when I feel ugly, my dad
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: will sit with me on the couch and hear my story.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: Even when I am the kid who gets caught, even
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: when I can't read yet and I feel stupid, even
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: then my mom is willing to hear me say more things.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: They learn even those parts of me, vulnerable, not feeling
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: great about myself parts of me are able to be
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: in connection with people. I think confidence is when we
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: feel like it's okay to be us in the widest
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: range of situations.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: It's not like we like all of those parts of
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: us ourselves the most. We don't. Some are painful, but
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: we still feel like it's okay to be us in
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: that moment. That is the real gift of confidence, I think.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: That's that's true confidence.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: Even when the good feeling isn't there, the confidence still
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: needs to permeate.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: No, it's I hope if you're listening to that, you
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: can understand one of the biggest tools or you can
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: take away rather. One of the biggest tools that she
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: mentioned was just silence for a moment. And when I
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: was in grad school to become a therapist, they said
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: the silence is medicine. Sometimes somebody in a session would
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: share something really hard. And we'll just sit there and
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: we'll look at each other in silence. And it's so
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: uncomfortable for so many people because we're in a world
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: that is inundated by words that sometimes don't matter as
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: much as we want them to. When in all actuality,
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: we just need to sit, reflect, and just let the
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: silence do its thing.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: And also as a parent, your job isn't to fix
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: every single insecurity that your kids come to you with.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: You will burn yourself to a crisp.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: And your kid... will be more fragile because of it.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: And that's the other piece. They don't learn. They don't
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: build the internal muscle of kind of climbing their way
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: out of the hole. That's why I love the idea
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: of kind of having a companion and processing for a parent.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: I'm listening to what you're saying. I'm reflecting it back
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: to you. Yeah. I'm humanizing it.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: And sometimes just saying, man, that must have been really
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: awful to experience. Even with grown men, Dr. Becky, I
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: tell some of my homies, I'm at an age now
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: where everybody's starting this divorce journey.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: And I'm listening to the story and I can't relate.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: But I said, man, I can't imagine how that feels
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: for you. That sounds really tough to deal with. And
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: people feel seeing you. I'm not solving it. I'm not
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: fixing it.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: No.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: I'm not taking it on. I'm just validating that that
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: thing is hard.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: I think a line every parent needs, but it's also
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: a line every human needs. It's just, I'm so glad
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: you told me that.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, man. Absolutely.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Thank you for trusting me with that. Yeah. Thank you
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: for trusting me with that.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: I feel so stupid. I'm so glad. I'm so glad
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: you told me that that's really important for me to
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: know that you have that thought. Tell me more. What
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: happened next?
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: And in some ways you're not fixing the feeling. You're
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: forming a relationship with your kid around the feeling.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: Not fixing the feeling. You're forming a relationship with your
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: kid around the feeling. Okay. Okay. I didn't want to
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: hear that shit, but you're right. You're right.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: I hope that anybody who's listening can take that and
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: do something useful with it. You're not? Okay. All right, Dr.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: Betty.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: Look, Dr. Becky, I didn't invite you on here to
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: come in and start reading me like a picture book, okay?
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: That's not why I invited you on this podcast. If
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: you're going to do that, you got to give me
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: some warning first, okay? Give me a heads up next time.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: So when we're talking about fixing feelings and who is
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: responsible for what there, it brings me to this idea
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: of of parent-child estrangement, which is becoming increasingly more popular.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: We're talking about it more. It's a thing. And it
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: doesn't look like it's slowing down anytime soon. So let's
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: do this. I want both perspectives. I want the perspective
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: from the child and from the parent. From a parent
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: who is noticing that their child is pulling away, their
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: adult child is pulling away, doesn't want to talk to
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: you anymore. Maybe you didn't get invited to the wedding.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: Maybe the disagreements are starting to get really hot. There's,
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: they don't see you as repair capable. Like what, what
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: is that? What's happening in that moment and what can
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: somebody do? Yeah.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: So I want to be honest. I don't know exactly
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: what's going on in that moment. Probably different for every,
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: every kind of parent child set. But something I think
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: is powerful to think about is if now there's conflict
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: in the relationship and it feels like it came out
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: of nowhere, like why is this happening? Right. One of
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: the things I would think about if you're that parent
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: and you watch your adult child pulling away is, what
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: is my adult child kind of telling me about maybe
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: a new way of relating that they need to stay
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: in a relationship with them? Because what they're probably, because if,
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: for example, conflict has always been hard. And the way
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: you've resolved conflict, and this is true in a lot
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: of kids are young, is the parent is right and
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: the kid did as told.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: End of chapter.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: End of chapter. If that's the way the relationship has
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: largely been formed, that type of relationship is prone to
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: estrangement because the relationship isn't adapting to that child getting older,
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: looking for more nuance, right? So... Are you willing as
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: the adult to listen, to understand, to hear things that
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: maybe don't feel good to your kid? Not to prove
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: your point right away, but again, to try to just
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: understand their perspective. In a way, what we're saying is,
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: are you willing to be in a new type of
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: relationship with your adult child so you can stay connected?
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: Where the power dynamics are more equitable.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: The power dynamics are definitely different. You know, I think
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: Questions like, hey, I notice you've been pulling away. My
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: guess is you have reasons for that. And if you're
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: ever willing to share them with me, I'm going to listen.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: And this is important. Not listen to prove my point.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: Not listen to defend myself.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: Not listen to defend myself. Listen to understand. I even
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: heard this thing on a podcast before. all I'm going
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: to do in a first conversation is ask you to
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: go so slowly that I can write everything down. And
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: I'm going to sit with it before I even say anything.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: So we can each have time. Because if you've been
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: pulling away, there's probably something I don't quite understand. And
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: the thing I want to say to the parent listening
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: is obviously I have no idea the situation. This is
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: not about your kid being right and you being wrong.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: But I think in relationships, we can be right or
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: we can be effective and we can rarely be both.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: That's for sure. That's for sure.
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: And if it matters to you to stay in a
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: relationship with your kid, you just have to choose effective
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: over right.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is what is going to be required of you.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: And also, you have to be very mindful of the
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: story that your brain tells you about your effort versus
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: what the outcome was. Because sometimes as parents, we think
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: if we try harder, that means it's going to produce
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: a better outcome or there's some reward at the end
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: for us, you know, that heaven's reward fallacy thing. And say, no,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: not necessarily because we sometimes fundamentally don't understand the developmental
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: needs of our children, even as they grow into adults.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: And when your kid, if your kid is willing to
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: share things with you, I want to say, that doesn't
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: mean your kid's right. But we often mistake these two
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: things too, whether our kid is two or 12 or, 32,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: trying to understand someone doesn't mean you agree with them.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean you give permission for their behavior. Understanding
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: can be its own thing. And to have that in
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: the back of your head, I can try to understand
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: everything they're saying. I give myself full permission still to
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: say to my friend, this is batshit crazy. This is
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: batshit crazy. Fine. Not to your kid. Not if you
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: want to be effective. But if you're understanding, that doesn't
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: mean you agree. It doesn't mean your kid is right.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: It means you are willing to put aside your own
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: story and try to understand theirs. What you do with
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: that after you understand, I don't know, you don't know,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: but I promise you nothing good will happen if you
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: don't first get to the understanding.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. That's the first step of being repair capable. You
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: don't always get it right, but when you have the
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: capability to make it right, you open yourself up to
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: a relationship that's more flexible and It has more internal
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: mechanisms for you all to fix things and resolve issues.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: But to your point, if that's never been the nature
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: of your relationship, it is going to be difficult.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: It's going to be difficult, but it's not impossible.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: No, it's a new muscle. It's a new muscle.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: All right, so let's flip it. What about the kid,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: the child who says, hey, I'm done. I'm done with
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: this parent. What should they be thinking about?
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: Look, I mean, I... I feel like there's so much
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: nuance in this pattern. I've been seeing it too, and
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: I'm aware of this increasing estrangement, right? One narrative out
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: there is people are more aware of their needs and
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: their psychological kind of well-being and their prioritizing relationships that
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: actually help them. And I'm not trying to say any
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: of these are right. But there's something I don't see
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: talked about as much that I'm interested in as well.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: And like always, maybe we can hold both these things.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: is our tolerance of frustration is just going down.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, the stress tolerance is in the toilet.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: In the toilet. And it's also getting increasingly hard inside
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: a family and outside a family to be in a
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: relationship with someone who doesn't see things the same way
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: as you, who disagrees with you. And that to me is,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: it's both sad, it's limiting, it terrifies me on a
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: world level. And I wonder how much of the increasing estrangement,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: not for any individual, but as a pattern, Is also
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: just part of that pattern.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if it's very closely related.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: And so I think those are just important to try
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: to wonder about together if you're that kid. Okay, what
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: am I not getting from my parent? Do I have
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: guidelines about just being in relationships that feel safe and
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: worthwhile to me now that I'm an adult? Hopefully those
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: guidelines aren't, they see everything the same way. They always
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: agree with me, right? But hopefully you have guidelines that
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: help you feel safe and still allow for other people
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: to be different from you. And then I think the
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: other thing is important too. In general, has it been
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: hard for me to tolerate people's feeling differently about situations
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: than me, seeing things different? Is this about me not
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: getting what I need? How much this is about we
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: just see the world differently? And I really, really hope
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: people don't become estranged from family, from friends, just because
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: differences of opinion kind of become the downfall of the relationship.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: You know, there's this thing that I'm seeing more prevalently
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: where Difference of opinion is where it kind of used
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: to be an entry point to me not liking you.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: Now it's the ticket at the door. And it's becoming
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: increasingly more difficult for people to distinguish me not liking
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: you for the way that you think or me not
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: liking the way that you think to me not liking
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: you for the way that you think. And it's not
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: just with with estrangement. I see the same thing in
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: romantic relationships all the time. People come to therapy with
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of friend trauma. I see the same
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: thing in friend dynamics all the time. And there's a
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: part of me that can't help but to wonder, and
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: this is a better question for anthropologists or sociologists or someone,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: but a part of me can't help to wonder if
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: our world where everything is so easily accessible and everything
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: affirms our deeply held beliefs, whether they're right or wrong
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: or helpful or maladaptive or whatever, I can't help but
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: to wonder if that expectation isn't bleeding through the other
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: unrelated parts of our existence, like our relationships with other humans.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: Especially the ones that we have heavy expectations for in
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: these familial ties and all of this. It's supposed to
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: be like this relational gravitational pull. All the people around me,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: we're all supposed to fit in this certain idea in
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: that disappointment relationship. Because the distress tolerance is so low
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: that disappointment is just a little bit too much for me.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: And now I have to, and this, people who are
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: estranged from their parents, again, myriad of reasons. I'm sure
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: many of them are incredibly valid.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: 100%.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: But I can't help but wonder if it's like, you know,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: this doesn't feel good for me to be in this environment.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: And I need to walk away from the things that
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: don't serve me, which is a phrase that burns me up.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: I hate when people say that.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: Because sometimes it's very well-dressed avoidance. Yeah.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: I think we summed it all up. All right.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: Carla gave me the whirlybird. All right. My producer gave
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: me one of these. Yep. So you know what that means?
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: That means, unfortunately, our conversation with Dr. Becky is coming
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: to a close. Dr. Becky, where can they find you?
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: Goodinside.com. So goodinside.com, come say hi there. And I have
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: a newsletter I send out every week, totally free.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: Just go newsletter.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: My latest thoughts, you know, my Instagram, Dr. Becky at
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: goodinside altogether. Our app is goodinside. We try to, my
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: podcast is goodinside with Dr.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: Becky. You got that branding down.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: And we just try to keep it simple. I can't
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: hold on to too many things in my mind. So
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: it's all the same.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: One of my favorite things about Dr. Becky, even though
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: she is, I don't want to call her a parenting
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: expert because I don't know if she likes that or not. Yeah,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: I figured she dated. She's shaking her head no. But
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: she is a leader in voice and parenting, and I
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: think she will be for a very long time. But
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: one of the things I always call her big homie Dr.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: Becky because she's so honest about her shortcomings as a parent.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: And if someone is giving you parenting advice and they
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: are presenting themselves as the perfect parent, ask questions.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: Just walk away. They're liars. You don't have to be
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: friends with them, Kier.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: Yo, I was trying to be nice, but they're lying
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: to you. No one has it all the way together.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: That is not a thing. But if you got anything
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: from this episode, if you enjoyed this episode, if it
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: reminded you of a parent or your childhood or something
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: you're struggling with or something you're good at or something
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: you've been wondering about, that's what's up. Curiosity is the
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: gateway to so much growth and so much prosperity, emotional prosperity,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: mental prosperity, everything. It all starts with curiosity, and it
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: all starts when you do. Either way, Dr. Becky, thank
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: you so much for coming in today. I've been trying
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: to get you on the pod. I'm glad our schedule's aligned.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: I'm glad it happened. It's good to see you. And
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: just one more thing. I know we got to wrap,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: but one time, just doing this whole book journey, man,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: I was having a really, really, really rough day, and
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: Just the media thing is crazy. And I was on
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: a train ride home from New York City and randomly Dr.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: Becky sent me a text just like, hey, yo, you're
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: doing incredible. I'm really proud of you. I know everybody
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: doesn't see it, but keep going. You're doing a great job.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: And it caught me at, man, it made me cry
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: because I really needed that in the moment. And you
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: couldn't have known. You were so in mind of your business,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: doing your thing. And you sent me that text and
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: you didn't have to. You didn't have to say shit
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: to me.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: But you did, and I just, I really appreciate your friendship.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: I appreciate who you've been to me, and I just
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: appreciate who you are. Thank you so much.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: Right back at you. Thank you.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: All right, folks. That's it for us today. Thank you
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: for joining. Make sure you leave us a message on learnthehardwaypod.com. Carla,
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: did I say that right? All right, cool. And we
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: can't wait to hear from you. Can't wait to see
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: y'all on the next episode. till next time job well
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: done learn the hard way is a production of our
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: heart podcast I'm your host Keir Gaines we're produced by
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: Courtney Deans and Kacen Alexander Ashley J Hobbs is our
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: senior producer our executive producers of Will Packer Dr. Joy
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: Harden Bradford Alex Baldwin and Carla Wilmaris