Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Nothing about employment worked for me - Tom Skinner

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Nothing about employment worked for me - Tom Skinner · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: So check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: And today's guest is Tom Skinner.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Tom is the co-founder and financial planning director for Barnaby Settle.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: And today Tom shares very deeply around his career journey to running his own business and why he decided to go self-employed and set up his own directly authorized firm and how he went about doing it.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: I really love the fact that Tom puts a lot of emphasis on the success of his business on hiring alongside him an operations director to help him reduce the amount of hats that he wears when running his business.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: He's a firm believer that you need to outsource a lot of your tasks to experts.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we talk about the power of networking and surrounding yourself with the right people.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: A, how it helps you generate clients, but B, how it also frees up your time to do the things that you enjoy the most.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: And for Tom, that's spending good quality time with his family.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: This is a fantastic podcast, definitely one for the entrepreneurs.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoy it.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Tom, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, good.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Sam.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: All well here.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Fabulous.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Tom, so um it was Emily, wasn't it, who reached out to you, first of all.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Emily in my office, and she's my marketing girl.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So she scours LinkedIn for interesting, interesting posts that um that financial planners do and likes them and comments on them.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we kept seeing yours coming up, and um, they were very interesting and very different to every other financial planner out there.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I thought to myself, definitely you want to reach out to Tom and get him on the podcast.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: So um here we are today, ready to talk about your career within financial planning.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um hopefully sort of enlighten to us about your journey, really.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what you're up to and what you're doing within the profession.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: You're the co-founder and financial planning director of Barnaby Settle, um, which is now your business.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: So you're technically you are self-employed, you're running a company.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but but prior to that, you you have been employed.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll tell you what, let's kick things off then.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um do you want to just sort of give us a brief overview of how you got into the profession, and then we'll start sort of going on along your career journey and we can sort of explore your um your route to running your own business?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: So my so at university, um, yeah, my main focus was uh I wanted to be a professional rugby player.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and for a range of reasons, injury and just not being good enough, uh, that didn't sort of work out uh at the at the age of sort of 21.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I had to get a bit more serious about life and and work.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, like many people just started going to various interviews and uh and the and the roles where I was uh I was doing better and being offered were things like um anything that involved sales.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I had a couple of really good offers in recruitment um and some various companies there that um were happy to take me on.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um but there was one particular firm that just caught my eye.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think because because my my focus at university was to be, I wanted to be a professional rug player, I hadn't really put that much effort into my exams.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: And what I quite liked about financial services was right here, so here's a fresh start, start again, and a whole load of exams to take in a whole subject.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, right, I can kind of do university again in a sense, and really sort of stretch my my brain, um, which I could see that that would be the case.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And in those days, it was CIFA was that was the route.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a one called FP, FP123 and CIFA 123, uh, as I recall.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: FPC, was it?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: FPC.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: FBC, that's it, yeah, FPC.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you had you could go one route or the other.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And this firm were like, look, we'll take you on, but you've got to get through these exams, and then they're not rocket science, but they're pretty tough, and you've got to get them on it, you've got to get them done in six months.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I just like that.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: I like the fact that I'd I'd taken it pretty easy at university, uh, coasted through, not making much of an effort.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: And here was a sort of uh a chart to sort of write that, get get get stuck in.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um and they were a German firm, and I just like I just like the sound of them.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: I like the exams, I like the the kind of the involvement with them.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: They were quite back in 2003, they were quite heavily sales focused, as was our profession, much sure, but much more so than very product focused.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, yeah, I like I like the look of them, and um, and that's where I where I started off.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a financial advice company, was it?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was, yeah.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: They were a German firm called MLP.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And um they were only the really only the only firm where pretty much from the get-go, you could be a financial advisor, you could be an independent financial advisor if you passed the exam and if you went through all their training program.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I see I think St.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: James's place offers something similar with their academy, then you could uh be a fully uh up and running as a financial advisor, and it was self-employed.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they focused on niches as well.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and my niche was they gave me was doctors.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh yeah, that was a really good start, actually, because it sort of taught me to think from a from a business perspective.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: I got a little bit of support, but they were pretty much go ahead out there uh and generate some some activity yourself.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a really good place to sort of cut my teeth and get going.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: And from day one, although I wasn't really a financial advisor, I called myself a financial advisor.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: It said that on my business card.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I didn't then have to do uh uh an apprentice as a yeah, as a uh in any other form of role, I could get straight stuck into and a lot of financial planning because you can you can learn a what a product does or what is you learn them quite quickly.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so what that the the benefit of that was I was straight in front of people in their homes talking to them about their finances, and that's a that's what it's all about.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so getting stuck into that and listening to their concerns and worries and aspirations from day one was uh yeah, it was great, it was great for me.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: From a very young age, then getting into the financial planning profession, but also from the sounds of it, showing quite good levels of emotional intelligence and sort of maturity to be able to deal with a wide range of professionals in from various backgrounds.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: You're mentioning there about picking the right opportunity to bring in somebody as a specialist and not trying to do it all yourself, you know, recognizing as an opportunity for a solicitor or a mortgage advisor.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Was that something that just came natural to you, people or you know, and people's skills?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or did you think it was something that you've had to build up over time?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's it's hard to be yeah, in introspective and and uh and say whether you're doing something well or not, but uh yeah, clearly having a background in sport was helpful.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Genuinely finding it people interesting, um, and finding their situation or problem that they were having and and and and listening much more than I spoke.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: And and being someone who doesn't it it I find it harder talking than I do listening.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore, the people once they realize there's genuine authenticity in the fact that you're willing that you want that you want to listen to them, people love to talk about themselves.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they don't like to talk about themselves if they if they if if they feel that you're not interested or you're not but I was I would be genuinely fascinating how let's use my analogy before, these three lads, these three lads men in overalls had built up this business making widgets in West Brom.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: And they'd say, you know, they would they they would not look like they were millionaires, but they were.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so that would be absolutely fascinating.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then also the dynamics, because one would maybe be a bit older than the other one, one would be a you know, one would have a son that they would want to bring in, maybe the other two didn't like the son or whatever it may be.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so these were absolutely fascinating.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And when she really got into that, these were these were fascinating stories that people were just desperate to tell.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And the bank manager either didn't have the time or or or interest, and I'd sit there and and uh listen to these uh listen to these great life stories from from people.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that was, yeah, that was that was the skill set.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um having a genuine interest in people is yeah, it was at was at the heart of that.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: I agree there.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think being naturally inquisitive is a fantastic trait to actually have.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the ability to sit back and listen as opposed to just want to jump in every two seconds with your point of view, trying to get them to do what you want them to do or whatever, um, I think it's a huge skill set and something that I learned from a very uh very young age.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because the more you listen, the more you learn.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: And more often than not, the thought that you have in your mind that you want to just jump out and say gets answered, but in a very different way.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it usually leads on to a far better question or a far better route for where that conversation should go.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: But also it deepens the relationship because everybody wants everybody wants to be listened to.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, everybody wants to feel like somebody actually cares about them and their journey.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: And how often does somebody genuinely listen?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: And there's the skill set around active listening as well, not just listening and just sort of nodding off, but actively being able to add something along the way to kind of probe and to guide to get things moving along in the conversation without it sounding like you're um trying to shut them down or shut them up so you can speak.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think it's a it's a definitely a great skill set.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think anybody who's looking to get into the profession, just take that into consideration.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think any consultancy type position is listening.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the more you listen, the more you learn, the better you get.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I love that.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay, cool.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: So working these meeting lots of different types of people has been something that you've done in your early career.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: So moving on then from that position, and you grab, you know, you were moving on through the financial profession, I suppose, as it was changing, the differences that were happening, moving uh with RDR happening as well, the retail distribution review.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're talking about the FBC qualifications, no one needed to be level four pre-RDR.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: All of a sudden you had to be level four.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, how did you tackle that?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Did that happen within your career easily?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Were you already qualified, ready for it?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Were you working as a fee-based advisor, or did you have to learn a whole new skill set?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was a bit of a baptism of fire.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I so I had to I had to get qualified and and uh uh rattled through through a few exams before it just takes us up to 2012.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was fine and great for the profession.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people who what that wasn't what they were about left at that time.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, yeah, the I think the FCA or FSA as they were then, the outcome that they wanted was they that they did sort of tighten things up a little bit in terms of who was who was coming or who was who was really thinking about financial advice as a as a financial financial services as a place to work.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I at that stage decided that I was ready.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: But let's let's go.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've seen all these businesses and I would be about 26 now.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen all these businesses, I'm ready to go.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh and I I had started building um a website actually.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I'd sort of I had a website and the company were not happy with this website because obviously it was it was and it was starting to bring in leads as well, and so that gave them some concerns, partly over control of it, because you've got this advisor out there, but also this then has a commercial value, which would only ever grow, so that they would lose control of that.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that was like so they kind of put me to a decision a little bit.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so um uh I then for four years in various guises where I would be working for different networks, and um, and it was fine, and and I and I I learned a lot, but I just wasn't ready for that level of responsibility.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was too overwhelming, there was too much to do.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: You can only if if if running a company involves 10 things, uh you can only really be good at about maybe three or four of those things, and you've got to bring in people who are good at the others, I I think to do it well.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I was trying to do all 10, and I was only good at three.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I was just sort of hobbling along the sort of uh one year arsenal, no plan, no growth, enjoying it, enjoying it more so than than sort of being employed.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but um yeah, wasn't it wasn't I I wasn't quite ready um and I didn't really have a have enough knowledge, I think, in terms of uh what that structure to be.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then RDR happened, um, and and overnight the complete switch from product-based services to consultancy, financial planning, um, whatever you want to call that, the movement away from uh product-based outcomes uh was yeah, was was fantastic for me.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And although I didn't then set up a company and I was an employed row role when we saw that transition and spent maybe six or seven years in employee roles after that, it was brilliant to watch companies wrestle with the problems and opportunities that RDR created from a vantage point of that I was I was the managing director of my little company, and now watching these managing directors and CEOs wrestle with essentially the same problems I had when it was just me.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter if you employ 3,000 people and RDR hits, or you employ one, you have exactly the same set of problems to solve.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: So seeing how they approach that, how they interacted with the regulator, how the regulator sort of found its feet, a new regulator under the FCA found its feet, uh, and what it wanted to see as good practice from advisors was a brilliant time to then just to step back and watch.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so all those things that I did well as a financial or the or the good skill sets which were listening and watching, I was then doing as an employed individual, um, observing others sort of navigate their way through that.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: And not always thinking, oh, this is what I'm doing, and and that's what's happening.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're if you're doing it naturally, then you are always just absorbing that information.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: So there was never like this big plan to just absorb information and then go and set up.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: That wasn't the that wasn't the plan at all.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: But it just it was just helpful.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: That was it was just in my nature to sort of watch what others were doing and think.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I chat to employed people and it and the conversations I would have would just go over their head.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: It would just, what are you talking about?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because you either think that way or you don't.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so yeah, those that were employed, it just hadn't even occurred to them that this was a big thing and it was going to affect companies.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: So your career took you down, took you down a pathway of ending up working for one of the largest accountancy firms in the UK.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think there are top 10 accountancy firm, isn't it?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Smith and Smith and Williamson on their financial planning side.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: So you gained some really good quality experience, good client relationships by the sounds of it.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then you ended up working for this top-tier accountancy firm uh in London.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in London.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I can see on your LinkedIn profile that you went in there or you were one whilst you were in there, you were head of financial planning, but under the medical sector.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that was you drawing back on your experience of working with people from the NHS?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Did you sort of always build relationships with people within the NHS and throughout your career?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: How come you ended up becoming the head of financial planning in the medical sector then?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I just created the I created a job for myself.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and took it to my seniors and said, can I elevate myself to this position?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I wanted to create uh yeah, a department that did specialist financial planning um for doctors.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you're claiming to be part of an actual thing, then it needs to have um you know something on the website which we did um and it and and there and there needs to be a frontman of that thing.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: And because I was the only person doing it, um, I was the one that proposed and said, well, I'll I'll I'll I'll be that I'll be that person.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we just needed a tangible thing to say that if we are the specialist uh provider of this service, then um you can point to it over there and that's where it exists.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that was all that was really about.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and yeah, and and so that was another great example of of of understanding sort of where you fit in a role within a in the company and where you have those specialist providers.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And there would be people there who would have unbelievable knowledge in their particular field or their sector, and the skill would be spotting the issue that your client would be having with their property in Spain or with their trust um in Italy or whatever it may be.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I met some amazing clients um through that with incredibly complex situations and financial problems to resolve, involving all sorts of things, such as legacy emotions in terms of how they'd inherited the money and and and and and all the sort of emotional baggage that came with that and the history and all those sorts of things.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was yeah, a fantastic time again to to really get some great exposure to some really complicated and interesting uh complicated situations and some fascinating clients.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then um, yeah, working with some some people who you know, you might have only a couple of points, touch points throughout the year, but if you if you had a problem that you couldn't solve, you could go to that to that person.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, what you can now do with LinkedIn is create that network yourself.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're the hub uh uh as a financial planner and you want to create five or six services around you, then just go find them.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Go for go and build out that specialist uh conveyancer, go and find that person who can do a will for 300 pounds and be brilliant up somewhere, you know, somewhere else in the country.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so that model I realized how effective that could be, and I think it can be even more effective now and truly independent if you select as a as a financial planner your own independent group of uh of individuals around you.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, if you're working in Manchester as someone who um works with private clients and are looking to set up a trust, and somebody contacts you in LinkedIn and says, Can you can you help me with my client and you build a relationship with them, then they're gonna be extremely grateful for the for the work that's coming through their door because people find that really hard.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: People find that bit particularly difficult is to find the work and bring it to them, and they'll be very grateful if you can help them with that.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that'll be the yeah, the um but yeah, the start of potentially uh a receptive um reciprocal relationship.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really great bit of advice.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think what when people traditionally think networking, they think going to the networking breakfast clubs and having to sort of go to all the events as face to face and all that.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: That has a part, doesn't it, to play really in going to see people face to face.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: But as you uh alluded to there, LinkedIn gives you that access so easily to find an expert within a specific area that you are able to to ban yourself and build a close relationship.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think people utilize LinkedIn enough and the power that LinkedIn has.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I would say that uh I've been doing my my job for about 13 years, which is about networking.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've I have to network with people and 95% of what I do is digital.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it' my my networking is done through a digital on a digital basis.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Prior to that, it was mainly phone based.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I might have to look through some phone books and stuff to try and find connections.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was that, it was like that.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: But LinkedIn just makes it so easy.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: So when you say let's just dig a little bit deeper on that, because I think people listening who might well be struggling to be able to build out um a network um that can generate uh good quality referrals into their business, especially when they're starting out on their own.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Can you give us some that was a very brief sort of outline there of using LinkedIn to build that network, but could you just go a little bit deeper and just provide some some other things or perhaps just go a bit deeper on what you mean by that and how someone could utilize the network to grow their business?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think I think the when you work in what we would call an integrated financial um proposition, uh as many of the big big firms are now offering, an element of is having to know and and networking within your own big company and having to know who that person is, and and having to hope that they've got their employment right of that individual and they are genuinely the best person in that in that position.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: But LinkedIn has that person out there, and if you put if and if you search for them and say, look, does anybody know somebody you can help me in this field?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: People will only really recommend somebody if they're if they're good.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so um when I have had a problem, I've just put it on LinkedIn, had a conversation with the person, and maybe I can solve four of the individuals' five problems, uh, but one of them I can't.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then I've struck up a fantastic new relationship with with someone who said, and you just get a feel for it.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: So three names come up, you have three chat with all three, and you just get a feel for one.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I've never been disappointed by that they've been absolutely brilliant.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I was you know completely right.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Clients have been thrilled.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so as we shift away from products, an independent product, which is to say, well, here's the need, or I've made you aware of the need, and here's my basket of products.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're just sort of navigating through what the issue is, and then LinkedIn gives you not just one company, but the entire universe if they're on there.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: And even if they're not, someone will say, Well, they're not on LinkedIn, but give this person a call and they'll help you.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: And if you see it as a as as a way of people just helping each other in some format and offer to help people as much as you can as well, likewise, then um it will give back.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Surround yourself with those individual experts within their specific niches and try to find the best and then back.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Of each other and business tends to get passed around, doesn't it, quite well when there's a collection of individuals that all have their own specialism.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because not everybody has the time, do they, to do everything.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: So being able to pass it off to somebody else who's going to add value is a great business model and it's a great way to network and share.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: It is, and and and financial planning now is it has this fantastic vantage point of being able to see the big picture.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore, if you're just a trend you're dealing in in a in in uh a transactional relationship with a client, like a mortgage broker, like an accountant, then um you don't have the advantage of as a financial planner to see that to the big overall arcing plan.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then that gives us the ability then to be at the center of that hub and bring people in.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: And most people don't want the to worry about all facets of someone's life and all aspects of it.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: So they're quite happy to just do their thing, hand it back and and and see you later when you've got the next client that needs that solution as well.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: So there's no wrestle for the clients because they're just very happy for that to just do their bit and to and to and to hand them back.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Tom, you were like sort of you were probably around your mid-mid thirties then, really, weren't you?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: When early 30s, mid-30s, when you were when you were working at Smith and Williamson, um, and you got yourself up to the associate director level.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for the for your age, working for a firm like that at the level that you were working at, you know, some people would chew their arm off to get to that level around that age.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I bet it was uh a fantastic place for you to be.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of things that you were learning, but huge amounts of opportunity for you.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um so my question to you, really, at this point, is you've you then leave Smith and Williamson and you set yourself up in your own company to Barnaby Settle.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: You become the co-founder and the financial planning director there of Barnaby Settle.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: So why would you leave a really great employed role, a top accountancy firm, loads of clients around you?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds like you've made a really great position for yourself.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Why, why would you leave to set up your own business?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: The I I worked with some incredibly talented people at at Smith Willison and also in in in other employee roles, um, brilliant people, great at what they do.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: And this isn't a criticism of any particular employer, but nothing about employment worked for me.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um I would rush to get the boys to nursery.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: I would then pack myself on the central line into London, um, six foot eight.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that wasn't fun uh getting in for nine.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: I would struggle to get there for nine o'clock, and eyebrows would be raised because I got there at 9.05.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then maybe if I was having a particularly good day, I'd go to the gym at lunchtime.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: The gym would have 4,000 people in there, so I just walk around there frustrated because I couldn't do anything or get on anything.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would leave at five o'clock.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: And generally in London, this isn't I didn't see this in Birmingham ever, but generally in London, it's seen as a good thing to be sat at seven o'clock, eight o'clock.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you're just sat playing solitaire at eight o'clock in the evening, it's almost like that's better than being sat at home.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that they sort of for FaceTime at your at your at your at your desk.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so even though I'd got everything done, and often I would have I would work in the evening, and I'm not saying this is a good thing, but you get no credit for that because no one sees you doing any of the work in the evening.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: You've been working at like nine, 10, 11 o'clock in the evening.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I would then get home tired, work in the evening, and at some point you say, well, what's what is the point in all this?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, this is working for me.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm yeah, I'm not healthy, I'm not eating while I'm rushing out of lunchtime, just grabbing this and that.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not, it isn't a good lifestyle.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, well, what am I going to look like if I do another 20 or 30 years of this?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was all about really creating uh an environment that suited me.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so what what when did I want to go to the gym?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: And when did I want to pick the boys up and and and when did I want to work?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe I want to work on a Saturday and not work on a um on a on a Monday.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: And also, I've since 2015, I've I've not worked on a Thursday um and and I've spent the day with my with my two boys.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and of course, in an employed role, that has a huge impact on your finances because they'll at best pay you 80% of the employed role.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're doing work in the evenings or you're doing or you're making it up on a Saturday, you get no, in most roles, you get no compensation for that.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's incredibly frustrating.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not very productive to be in that in that situation, and it really sort of stifles your earning capacity.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I also would sit down with people and sort of would really get into sort of you know what money meant to them and and and and why and why were they getting up and what the what was the what was the why for them as to what they were doing and and sort of creating these financial plans.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I just felt like a complete fraud uh because I trudged off home uh you know completely shattered, and um I didn't feel any aspect of the things that I was creating for these people, these financial plans, uh, in any way translated into my life uh as well.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think it made me a particularly good financial planner because, or as good as as good as I might have been, because I wasn't I wasn't sort of walking the walk.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: And this summer we're off to Costa Rica for six weeks, and the whole boys, uh the uh uh Charlie, my eldest, uh he's the only one at school, but he's got six weeks.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to Costa Rica, I'm not taking her phone with me, any tech.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and um, yeah, that will be all about just spending time with the boys as a as a as a family.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that, and I see that in my wife in her employed capacity, she's had to fight really hard to get six weeks of unpaid leave, and it's only because she's been there over a decade uh that they've uh agreed to it because of her of her commitment.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm saying, look, I want to I want to do this every other year, at least, um, as a as a as a family.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: I tried to get us to take three months off.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you look at the American financial planners and you look at the Australian financial planners, they're much better at just jumping in the sort of Winnebago and heading down the West Coast and videoing themselves doing it uh whilst they whilst they go along.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: And employed roles just don't sue that.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: So financial plans who are creating lifelong financial plans and sort of liberating their clients from the sort of constraints of uh an employed role, I think I think uh must struggle to then um you know reflect that back and uh and show the uh clients what can be done with effective management.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what you're doing.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're saying, look, you know, with a discipline and and a plan and and good budgeting and good management of your finances, this is what you can create from a portfolio, and this is what the you know you can do through the wondrous world of the of the stock market and all that sort of stuff.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so yeah, just just live living out that example for for clients.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really great answer.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much in there that I can agree with as well.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so much in there I agree with.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that I can wholeheartedly agree with is that when you run your own business, the the flexibility that it gives you to spend time with your family is um is invaluable, isn't it?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can't get that time back.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: You can't, particularly when they're young as well.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, nobody nobody ever looks at life and thinks, oh, I just wish I'd done a bit, a bit of work, I'd stayed a bit later, or um, or that promotion was really worth um was worth was worth getting.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um did you when you when you left that employed role then at Smith and Williamson and you made the decision then to go employ, just talk me through that mindset of why when when you did it and and and how you did it, because you can imagine someone listening to this now, maybe they hear what you're saying, especially the guys as well, you know, because so many men don't get to spend enough time with their families, and that guilt and shame attached to not being able to do that is quite painful because I've spoken to men in detail about this, and they it's a big deal at the moment, I think, especially within financial services.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, how did you kind of come to terms with the fact that it was right, I'm gonna I'm gonna leave this very secure job?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's killing me a little bit, but I'm gonna leave it.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: How did you go about doing it?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: And what was your first sort of what was your plan of action to do it?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the I think we when you've got when you've got children, it's just a life full of guilt the whole time.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're not at work, you feel guilty.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh because people are basically looking down on you.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Are they either not aware that you've got children or there's an element of of of jealousy that that that there's a situation that's being made different for you than it than it was for them because they're having to get on and be there at seven o'clock in the evening, all that sort of stuff.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then if you're at work, you're guilty because you're not hanging out with your children and you're getting photos from uh your your your wife and little videos or uh you know messages from the nursery.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, just perpetuate so to just not feel guilty the whole time was was was um the main thing.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I would say to anybody who was thinking, right, I I like oh, I'd say I would say two things.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've we've talked about this before.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: I I've got friends who for them actually they found a company where they can, it is a nine to five role, they can leave at five, they can stick their golf clubs in the back of their car, they can play golf with their friends on a Thursday evening when it's sunny, they maybe don't get the flexibility nine to five around that with the children, but they take great holidays, um, spend loads of time with their children at the at the weekends.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what's not stressful for them is that they don't have to solve any real sort of big solutions.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: They just sort of, I'll clock in, you're gonna put some leads in my diary, you're gonna manage my my the my my diary in terms of my annual reviews.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: I just have to stay compliant, I just have to read the process, it just has to understand what you want from me.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's an easy life.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Anything for an easy life, and I found that role.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: And for them, my life would would would would they would stay, it would, it would fill them full of dread, and likewise just stick the revolver on the table and leave it there, because if that's my job, but but it's not that one is right or one is wrong, it you just gotta understand what it is and what it makes you tick.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I would I would things would come down and I would think this isn't gonna work, and I know exactly why this isn't gonna work, and so it would be frustrating doing something, knowing that in nine months' time they were gonna can this entire project because it wasn't gonna work, and so not everything works here at old Barnaby Cecil, but um I often know the reason why it isn't working and then can fix it.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it was to have control over my working day and my output and everything that we were doing, and some people don't want that control, don't want that pressure.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the first thing is to understand where you sit um in that um in that cycle, and you can have a fantastic career working your way through as long as you just yeah, just fight the fact that the company will never stop taking and it'll never be enough, and I'll always want an extra 15, 20, 30 percent from you because that's the job of capitalism is to squeeze every inch uh inch out of you.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um and you have to accept that.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: But if you are someone who thinks, well, actually, I feel the same way about my position, then you've got to form a plan in terms of how you're gonna generate that work and how you're gonna generate that attention.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it comes back to them as social media, which I think is a fantastic place to create awareness of what it is that you're doing.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore, it's impossible to be a generalist.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: So if you you're saying I can solve anyone's problem, then nope, you're not gonna draw anyone towards you.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got to think about what are the groups of people that I like working with and what are the problems that I feel I can solve for them.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: And what where where's the where where do we sort of mirror and reflect each other in terms of what you're doing?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so now working with with uh agency owners of small startups, fantastic.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: Live and breathe the same problems that they're experiencing.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: Working with digital execs in um uh in fast-paced roles, know exactly what they're going through because they have a fantastic benefit package, they're paid loads of money, but they just can't get anything out of it in terms of outside of their sort of working life, and they and they often are just saying, I can I can just do this for 10 or 15 years, and so creating a package around right, okay, we're gonna get through this together 10 or 15 years, and then we're out.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so it's that it's having an understanding of those core people, and then just um and just talking about it in in in your day-to-day um life through LinkedIn about how the things that you're doing in your life reflect those problems and then what those solutions are.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the the to the so, and if you're doing about 85% of that already, then you're ready to go, just just go for it.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I think you can start that by you know having a chat with your compliance department about what I can get away with on social media, what will you let me to do?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: But there's nothing to stop you from starting that personal brand uh and talking in generic terms about what you're doing, so that you just start to get some awareness of who you are and what you're um about.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's just good planning.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: So there are so Brett Davidson is is uh is a uh um uh uh a financial planning consultant.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so go look at his website.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's a program that you can go through uh with him.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: You will need to have some capital to to start with.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think that that figure now is up to about 20,000 pounds is what you'll have to have.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then you'll need to sort of um yeah, have have a have a business plan.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: You'll have to submit that business plan to the FCA and they they will have to think or that they will decide if it's if it's viable.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I can probably go into a lot more detail if somebody's listens to this and thinks I'd love a chat with Tom.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so um uh yeah, just drop me a line on LinkedIn and and I'll I'll I'll touch you in more specifics if you're saying, look, I'm an ABC here and I want to go and and and do that there, I'm more than happy to to yeah to talk through, not necessarily in saying, like, well, this is how you've got to do it, but this is how we've done it and this is what's worked, um, and that's and that's what hasn't worked.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the other thing then is if I back to that point, if there's 10 things you've got to do to be successful in business, and you might be really good at three or pretty good at three, find somebody who's really good at uh another three, and in that I found Emma Walker who's brilliant at three things I'm not.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that gets us up to six.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then the four other things, we've just brought people in in and around us.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so yeah, I I would I would yeah, find someone in your working life who you've got a fantastic working relationship with, and um and that isn't probably going to be another financial planner, it's probably gonna be a power planner or an administrator who's willing to take uh take a punt with you.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I said to Emma and Day One.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: I said, look, if we if we get to this point after three years, which I think we could, and it all looks it all looks easy now, but the it wasn't then, and and it wasn't easy, and we've have we have had some really fantastic luck at times where we've just landed fantastic clients and and some fantastic workers come in.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I said if we get to this position after three years, then I'll give you 20% of the company.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: And she was 26 at the time, right?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I said, look, I'll I'll put all the money in, I'll front the whole thing, and if it goes completely wrong, then you'll have a fantastic story to tell in your next interview.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: And people will think it's great because you had a go, um, but there's no risk to you.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because it was a lot to sort of, you know, she she had didn't own a property, didn't she hadn't bought anywhere at that point, so it was a lot to ask of her, and I couldn't pay her very much to begin with.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um, I said, what's the absolute minimum that you could survive on each month?
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that was her salary for the first year.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and this is the first month we've reached that three-year period, and she's been given 20% of the company.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so that was yeah, fantastic to see that through.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: And a big, big part of our success, big, big part of our success is down to her and her skill set.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: And what is her skill set then?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: What does she bring to the table?
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: When I interviewed her, she um had got this folder on the desk of all the interviews that she was going through, and she got labels through all these companies that she'd worked through, and she'd made notes about each role before the interview, and she'd made notes after the role, so that she could reflect and go through each position um and and make a decision as to which role she wanted to accept.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, because she was great, everybody offered her the job, and then she knew which one she wanted because she got her laminated and highlighted uh position and all of her notes on each role.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I could just see here with someone who's fantastically organized.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh that's what she brings.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, she is very much process driven, and whereas I will uh identify the problem and come up with a solution, she'll then take the solution and create a process around it so that we can then repeat the output and she'll say, right, I found a better way of doing it, let's do it this.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we now use things like Basecamp, um, pipe drive.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she's amazing with technology as well.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: So her mum's a maths teacher, and we do a lot in cash flow um planning um tools and everything, and we've sort of built we've built a unique planning process around what these tools can do, but we've got our own process, so it's not just here's the uh cash flow tool.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: We've got our own process which anyone can copy and use with their cash flowing process, but it's not the process, it's not the the tool first.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um and she just gets this technology and pulls pulls features and things that the tech can do.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I can articulate and explain it to a client and can come back with the sort of overall plan that the client wants, but she then knows exactly how the tech works.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and probably couldn't necessarily explain it to a client, maybe as well as I can, because that's not her skill set, but then I couldn't plug it all in and get the damn thing to work.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that's it.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm with you on I'm with you on that.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: And what I'm getting from you, Tom, is that you like to surround yourself with people that can do the things that you're not good at, um, or you don't have, like you say, you don't have the skill set.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you can focus on the areas that you are good at and push that business forward in that way.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: I very much, I'm very much like that.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a very much top-down thinker.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, in the sense that I come up with these ideas and have these great concepts and ideas and solutions to problems.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Give me a problem and I will create a solution.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I get so enthusiastic about the solution that I live in the solution.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm like, brilliant.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna I'm gonna go over there and I'm gonna do everything.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: I do my market research, I pitch it to a few people, say, right, I'm gonna do this.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I'm gonna do, and this is what it's gonna look like, and blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone's like, brilliant, great, fantastic.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm like, oh shit, now I've got to actually put the process into place.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: I've now got to build it out.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where I struggle massively, you know, because attention for me is very difficult.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: I would say I'm I have a level of ADD, you know, I'm enthusiastic about the creative side, terrifies me having to put things into place.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: I can do it, and for a long time, as a business owner on my own, in a role where I'm trying to create marketing, for example, in a recruitment company, which is unheard of.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like I was I knew the value in it, but I had to create it, but I had to do it all myself, like running podcasting and all that kind of stuff.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I know I can do it, but it bogs me down.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: It takes my time, it makes me feel de-energized, it makes me feel stressed, it makes me feel anxious because I have the uh a fear of failure or or um I'm unable to apply myself to a process where I'm thinking it might go wrong.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: I worry about things.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: I live in a solution, the great stuff, you know, the Selly stuff.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I, whenever I've brought people in to come in and service and support me in being the person that I can be great at being, I've been so happy.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when I speak to financial advisors, and especially financial advisors that have gone it alone, the ones that have gone it alone have mega stress, mega pressure on their shoulders, wearing far too many hats.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: And they can be sold, they can speak, they can be sold the dream via a network or whatever.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: We'll take away the compliance, would take away the power planning.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: But it never materializes the way it should do, because it's still one person on their own trying to trying to run their run their business.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's one of the best bits of advice, Tom, is to have somebody alongside you that loves doing the stuff that you don't want to do, that allows you to go out and win those clients and somebody who's process driven, a bloody good power planner, somebody who fully understands the compliance process, somebody who genuinely gets excited about it.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes, as as as people who are salesy, um I don't want to use the word salesy, but let's say creatives.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, tend to think that by joining forces with another creative, that's the solution.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, no, absolutely.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not, is it?
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're just gonna outcreate each other and just come up with conflicting ideas, and it'll just be a great big ideas bubble that just floats around in the ether, nothing actually ever gets done.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I I I I come up with the ideas and Emma makes it happen.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and and and each time we've added somebody, so Emma can't do it, do everything.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: And now so she's effectively an operations manager and we're bringing in people.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: So um we have somebody who helps us with PR, we have somebody who helps us with marketing, we have somebody who helps us with compliance, we have somebody who helps us with our overall long-term strategy as a business.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I can say to that person that this is what I want to do.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: Can you go and talk to that journalist and see if they think it's a it's a it's a good idea?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you said to that PR person, come up with financial, three financial things, financial planning ideas to talk to the Sunday Times about, they'd struggle because they're PR, but they know the person, they know the time of day to speak to them, they know how to present the copy to them in a format that they will run with and they will use.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's it's taking two very different skill sets.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's the yeah, the the the the finesse of getting a specialist individual, whether it's whether it's four processes.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but to do the actual thing.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you can massively augment your ability as a financial planner by having these people around you.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: And if you run it on a freelance basis, then they'll have other clients.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and they'll share with you what their other clients are doing in good practice.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um that's absolutely fine to do because there's what 74 million people in the in the country.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, yeah, we you yeah, we can't take them all on as as as clients individually.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so it doesn't matter if if somebody, if one of these freelancers shares what you're doing, as long as it's all uh it's executed really well for your company, but you get so much back from from these freelancers saying, you know, they never they're never specific now seeing these products because generally a lot of the things that you're doing, there's nothing different.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: So if if we were to sit down and look at your company, the things that we're doing, probably in recruitment, specializing three people or three or three or three types of services is really good.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because then you understand the language that they use in that profession and you understand the companies, and then they're saying, Oh, these guys are rubbish.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you can say, I tell you why they're rubbish, but I'll tell you who's good.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can solve these problems.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then you need to make people in that field aware.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: If you're if you're recruiting into, I don't know, um uh food retail, then you then know that there is a particular uh yeah, group of individuals on LinkedIn or on Twitter that you can then you know talk to about wider, wider issues uh and get yourself aware.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just making yourself aware to that group of people that you exist and that you're there so that when they need you or when you want you.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's a really good book.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was never thought it was on my thing, but I think Charles in my office nicked it off of me.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: But it's called um Person of Influence.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, how to become the person?
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Daniel Priestley.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's right, yeah.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: So person of influence.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it goes sums it up in that book.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: So anyone's listening about why you should strive to become the person of influence within your circle.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: That book explains a like a methodology, if you like, a process.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: But ultimately it is understand your niche, recognize who the people of influence are within it, and become the person of influence within the thing that you are talking about.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um essentially, you can see that I've been trying to do that myself with the with the with um, you know, I've got a recruitment company called Recruit UK.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't exactly shout out financial advice.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like a large recruitment company, right?
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we have a niche specialism predominantly is financial advice, mortgage advice.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's our area of expertise and the roles that sit underneath it.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: But what we didn't have was this kind of connection between that and the market that was friendly uh because recruitment has a bit of a name for it.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I needed to create this safe space that built trust with my audience, whether it's candidates or clients, that I'm adding value.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where the Financial Planet Life came from.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the careers-based podcast because there isn't a window into the profession, and we all know we need more people.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I positioned myself as, and I genuinely believe this a service to the profession, to be able to bring people from outside of it or those within it, to see opportunities to progress and to innovate and to move forward by learning from those that have been there and trod those steps.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: And as I've naturally progressing the financial plan of life, I'm bringing in also things like the Financial Plan of Life uh Talk Club, which is going to be a men's mental health talk therapy for free for the financial planning profession.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something I'm in the process of bringing out, and you'll see that in the next couple of weeks.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because guess what?
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: You've expressed it yourself.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: You were working for a firm where you're smashing out the hours, not seeing your kids, you're getting ill, right?
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: Physically, mentally, more than likely, stress levels are kind of high.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: Male tends to be male-dominated within the profession, but also nobody really opens up because you're seeing really as a pillar of strength as a financial advisor.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, me being able to then bring this well-being proposition through the financial plan of life that connects good thinking, talking, therapy, reducing the amount of hopefully things like male suicide, because we saw that happen in um lockdown with a financial advisor that, you know, lockdown sort of took his business and he ended up killing himself.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it was really sad, really sad to hear.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that's another area where I can add value, but I'm a you know, and and and I'm also bringing in this unbiased recruitment process where I can bring people from outside of the profession into like a video-based interview process where everybody gets an interview.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, regardless of age, background, ethnicity, everybody goes through my interview process.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I only work with select recruitment companies that also tick the box to show that they do care genuinely about their staff and that they do have a clear career progression.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: So if somebody is going to change career and become an advisor and they've got the skill set to do it, then sure as shit, these companies need to know.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: I need to know that these companies are going to give them the support that they require and need.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of someone like a St.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: James's place coming in and hoovering them all up, you know, my goal here is to go, look, it doesn't matter if you're a firm of two people or you're a firm of 3,000 advisors, everybody's gonna have a chance to get some of these people from outside of the profession into their business.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna do that on a flat fee, low fee basis, because they're trainees.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to be I'm trying to bring people into a profession because I can make money out of experienced financial advisors and power planners, and you know, it doesn't really matter.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: But these are the things that add value to the profession that have a positive impact and a knock-on effect to my other recruitment business.
• 49:18
  unknown: Yep.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, exactly.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, well, yeah, fantastic.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: So a similar thing for us is that now that we're up and running and we're we're profitable, we've got a couple of things that we've got to do to get finished in terms of our of our process.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then I and then I will say, I genuinely don't think we can make it any better than it is now.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: But then when we've got to that stage, what I really want to do is then to then start to help as many people as I possibly can with good, free, quality financial planning content.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: And there's some people doing out there brilliant, but maybe they don't quite look like me or they don't quite sound like me.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a group of people who say, Well, that for that person, they're not quite right for me, but Tom is.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's nothing to stop uh uh anybody starting off and doing something similar, because there will be a group of people for you that you're the right person, and they just that you just yeah, they just feel that you're the that you're the right the right person to to work with.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um but even if you're not, they'll have taken something away, which is uh which is good financial playing.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of the anxiety um and sort of the mental health issues come from just bad outcomes, bad behaviour in finances.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so um if you can do that and it doesn't expose you as a company to to cost, which all you need now is a camera, decent camera, decent mic, and something to say, and then away you go.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think you I think you've got it, I think you have a duty, a duty to share your skill set with everybody.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, particularly if you've got so so the thing with the NHS pension planning is that we we we we can do these really complicated calculations for NHS consultants, but then through the podcast, the we I had a couple of phone calls from somebody to say, look, you're I'm a midwife, can can you help me?
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now that person probably hasn't got the the funds available to pay for uh for one of our reports, probably doesn't need one of our reports, but there's a massive gap between the stuff that NHS pensions can answer on the phone and our really complicated report that solves a couple of tax issues that aren't even relevant for them anyway, and all that stuff's in my head.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I can't, there's not I can't spend all my week talking to that person that because there's just one of me and there isn't enough time to do that.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I can talk about it in a podcast and they can listen to it, and so that and so there you go.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: So why wouldn't you do that?
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: If it's in your head and it can help people, just give it away.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um But when you but when you sit down then with that client who maybe has a bit more money, right?
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: Some bit more money to invest, and they know that you're creating content for the staff that support them, nurses, midwives, the ones that tend to get overlooked, so we're fully aware of underpaid, overlooked, undervalued.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: But when you are packaging up good, strong content for them that takes you a couple of hours, you're giving, you're giving back to a profession that gives you something back at the other end.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it and it doesn't it does not go unnoticed.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the thing that I tell people is to not focus so much on the shiny stuff, right?
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: Shine on focus on the love, focus on the giving, the kindness, because when you are kind and you give, the things come back.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, I've noticed that I've noticed that within my own business.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: If we go back to the stresses and the strains that you experience within a culture of a high-end accountancy firm, and I'm not saying that that's what they're like across the UK or anything like that.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we work with it with Smith and Williamson, fantastic company.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but but but I think companies of all shapes and sizes have to do something about the culture of their businesses and have to do something about the values that they work by based on the people that make them the money, their staff, because you can't be rinsing the staff for everything they're worth, destroying their livelihood, you know, making them stressed, guilty.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: Guilt's a terrible thing.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: Shame's a terrible thing to have, right?
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: I came in here and I recently, uh last couple of years, since COVID, we totally took our business plan, tore it up, and changed it to reflect what we think is a fair proposition for our staff and one that looks after them, say well-being products and uh health, health products, uh PT sessions, flexible working hours, a clear career progression plan that they can work to and they can stop at any point guilt free guilt-free and still continue to earn a level of income that they want to earn.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, everything's completely within their power, unlimited holidays and lots of things, right?
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: And at the time you're thinking, God, we're giving away so much here.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, do you know what it does?
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_01: It allows you to see who within your business really appreciates it because they also because they work far better and harder, and their billings have gone up, they're far smarter about it.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_01: And the ones that just still want, want, want, want excuse, excuse, excuse, they fall by the wayside.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_01: They're the old guard, they check, they go, they leave, they gradually leave.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: What you're left with what you're left with is a culture out there I've got out there is just fantastic.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: There's a there's a duty of care of these firms to be really looking at their culture, their personal development plans, and stop, especially within the financial planning profession, because you know there's loads of clients out there, right?
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know that.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: You said it, 75 million bloody people out there.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's a shitload of clients.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: You can all make a lot of money because there's not many of you.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: There's not many of you, and guess where the challenge is?
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is in building your business and hiring the right people into your business.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's the challenge that financial planning companies have to grow, is people within their businesses.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: So people have companies have to look at culture and what they're doing.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now, what I do like is what you're doing is that you're creating your own culture, your own way of life about how you want to run your business, but where you see your time, which is the most valuable thing, being spent, i.e., family, holidays, all those typical types of things.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I really, really like that.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: You did an article recently, didn't you, in New Model Advisor talking about innovation is going to be coming from these smaller firms.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: What do you, you know, can you just elaborate that on a little bit?
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you s what do you mean by that?
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think um big firms have have have got to come up with a process unless you break it down into sectors and and and teams that are are compliant um and are sort of separate profit hubs in their own right, which is actually what Smith and Williamson were were very good at.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um I obviously don't know the setup now with with Tilney, but I do know people that work at Tilney, and I understand that's a very different, more sort of national process led.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that might be great if you're looking for a predictable outcome.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a if you're a um a private equity firm and you're coming in to buy a business, you don't really want profit centers all over the country that are making divideless of profits.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: You want to know that I put this number of people in at the top, I get this number of people down at the bottom, we get this level of output, we make our level of profit, and we can repeat that anywhere in the country and and and go.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: But to do that, you've got to be able to, you've got to have a uh a process that someone can follow in Birmingham and Manchester and London.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: And if the and if they're operating up in Birmingham at a at a higher level, faster, more efficient, more efficient, and have a better way of doing it, but they're struggling in London, you've got to go at London's pace.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: So often I find, and I'm not talking about specific company here, but you find uh you've got to dumb it down to the lowest denominator.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore, it's a very process-led, simple, and processes are fantastic, but a very straightforward and outcome.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: And can you really create a unique and bespoke solution for the person sat before you, which would just create a massive headache for a compliance person who's not in that meeting, sat in another building, you're trying to control 3,000 advisors, uh doing all sorts of different things.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that stifles innovation and it stifles um somebody sitting down with a blank sheet of paper and saying, what is the problem that we need to solve?
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why, if it's not working, it just goes.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that's you know, we we somebody rang me about our uh we are um we are bringing a new CRM system because we need one now.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: We're now a size where we can't do things manually in terms of reporting to the regulator.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I've just had very little involvement in the decision, Moses, because we've taken people who it's the heart of what they do in a in our team, um, and it's been given their project, so they then love the solution because it was it's their solution, but also they've worked with seven different CRM systems and they hate this one, and they you know this one's absolutely rubbish, etc.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: So hand it, hand it back to them and let them solve that problem.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: They've come back now and and you know, we're compliant and I'm happy, so so so that's the one that we're going to run with.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um and when you're small, you can give those uh problems to people.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's not working, then you can change it.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: So the things that I'm involved in, you know, if they're if they're working, if the feedback from flying is great, then let's keep doing it, let's do more of that.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's not, then I then we can alter it so we can be much more flexible.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's good to have a railroad to run down and so that you're not just sort of all over the place, but you can build in sort of quarterly markers and key performance indicators, all those sorts of things.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's nice to have the boundaries and then um to to move around that, but also give specific problems to group of people, groups of people who um it it's their life, and therefore they'll thank you for that because they'll own the problem and they'll give you a great outcome.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_01: At the moment, you're running a lifestyle business.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're quite, you know, how many years have you got been going now?
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: About three years, did you say?
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: We uh have been, yeah, I I had uh I had Garnley, so so so we will be we'll be FCA regulated three.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: We've been we've been limited companies been uh for three years, but we'll be FCA regulated for for uh August, will be our third year of of a trading entity.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: So within that three years, you're starting to find your feet.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: You've you've found your feet, you've got your clients on board, you've got your power planner, great partnership, you know, you've got the person who keeps everything stable, and you're the guy who's who's getting stuck in within the clients and doing that kind of thing.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: You've got your team outsourced around you because you don't hire people internally, they're outsourced.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: Therefore, you can always call upon specific experts within certain areas to help your business grow without having them on the books, if you like.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're you know, I don't know, do you retain them?
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do you pay them per well if you take if you take the power plans, for example?
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: So so Emma was a power planner, but now communicates with the paraplanners.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: So she's sort of operations with managing managing the sort of client file, isn't it?
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm still the client point of contact, so they get the relationship with me, but she's managing the relationship with the now.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: We pay uh uh we pay 1200 pounds a month for a certain set of work with a firm um that provides a power planning service for us, and they're absolutely brilliant, they're amazing.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: And if everyone wants to know who they are, then drop me a line.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um well I'll I'll I'll I'll tell you that they're that they're Richard Allen and the power planners.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: The power planners, yeah.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: Richard Allen.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why I'm holding that.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so with them, it just is just whether whether the the commercial aspect um he minds me saying, but it's on his website, so yeah, so he can't.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we pay them, we pay them 1200 uh pounds a month, and that gives us a set level of work.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got that as a cost.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: But the fantastic thing about that is that if five clients come in one month, we've got the ability to flex out and increase our workload because then they charge us an extra rate over.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: So they might charge us£3,000,£3,500 a month because we've got really busy.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and so, yeah, so they give us capacity now.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_00: If you get busy in the summer uh and you're a fixed entity with a fixed building and you've got that level of number of staff, and you've got two full-time power planners, how do you expand out?
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, well, obviously we've got our 1,200 cost to cover that, but we have the ability to take on more work.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously a headache for Richard if we suddenly throw loads of work his way, but that's kind of his problem.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um and you know, he he can move work around his company with the eight or nine brilliant power plans that they've got.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: And and then coming back to that point, that original point, we get these amazing reports that are not a narrow groupthink.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're writing reports for probably 50 companies, let's say.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: They're tuned into the FCA, they're tuned into what these 50 companies are doing, we're tuned into these 50 companies because by proxy we're getting reports that are and their feedback.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: They, of course, these firms are all different sizes and have compliant departments, so they're saying, I don't like how you position that.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: Can you so they so they're getting we're getting not just our best practice, we're getting our best practice from all the other clients that they've got.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_00: And we get that in our in our tech development, we get that with money info, who have built our app and our client portal.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: We get that with uh the tech team that's um uh running our website, we get that with our marketing um and our blogs that we write.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: So the person that writes that copy for us specializes in financial planners.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_00: This the the strategist who's over in Australia, with her, we get what best practice over in Australia as well.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_00: And they are really at the at the outer edge of um of uh of of what lifestyling and and that side of financial planning can look like.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I don't know if that's answers your question over the yeah.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, it does.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just absolutely because it kind of leads me on to where where I'm going really, which is you know, you're you're an entrepreneurial guy, you're around entrepreneurial people all the time.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: You've always innovated as you've gone throughout your career, you've always stepped up and solved the problems that you're experiencing.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think um, well, having you as a financial planner and having Emma essentially as an operations manager, right?
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_01: Having YouTube beautifully positioned like that and then having your support outside of the business, what it does allow you to do is either you can grow, can't you, as a two, more so than you would if it if you were expecting her to do all the power planning and do absolutely everything.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you have positioned this in a way where, yeah, it might cost you a little bit of money to outsource all these roles, but you're not employing these people, which is a great strategy.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: But it allows you to grow bigger without actually having to bring in more financial advisors or more staff as an employed model.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_01: Do you see yourself sort of ever growing where you become an employer of advisors?
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think there'll become a time where you're so comfortable that you can sit back and almost manage that business and not be client-facing?
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_01: Is that where you'd like to go?
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_01: Is that how you'd like to see it?
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_01: Or are you happy just doing the day job of being a financial planner and living the life you're living now?
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I take enormous satisfaction at the fact that I'm building this team and 20% is me and 80% is the functionality that this team now gives me around me, so that I, you know, I can produce this fantastic service for clients that isn't perfect, but is getting better sort of month by month as we as we as we tweak and we change various things.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I I only ever wanted to be the best financial planner I possibly could be.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_00: And and and and now that the the best is just pushing further and further as I bring more people who can give me even more technical knowledge in a certain area, so I can say, what's our thinking on this?
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: And they can come in on the call and we can sort of, and again, getting those us being the hub and getting everybody around us to support the client.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that's fine for now.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_00: And and we and we're not at the we're not at the outer reaches of as far as we can take that in terms of my capabilities as a financial planner.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not quite sure how I want to see how far I can go with that.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but at some stage, um, yeah, you have to look at what what how does Emma want to progress and where where does she want to go with her career?
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I initially thought, well, I'm not gonna be able to sell this business because you can't sell a job if it's just me.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then I kind of let go of that because my whole thing has been about in ostensibly, all you need is a diet debit and discipline and a period of time and good behavior around financial planning, and this is the wealth you can create, and you can build a lifestyle around all of these things, and and and sort of you only need enough.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_00: You you don't need uh one penny more than is enough.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_00: So let's find what your enough looks like, and and let's not make let's not have a penny more than we need to unless it comes along and we haven't got to do anything for it, and then do all the things and with your family and all the things that you enjoy.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: Joy, but let's find out your uh find out what your enough is for you and then work back.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so if I sell my company for half a million pounds one day, I've slightly disconnected with that story in which I said to somebody, all you need is a diet debit of discipline and to know how much is enough.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I'm very happy.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what that will look like.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 39 now, so it's not a problem I've got to solve for 21 years, but I don't know what what that will look like.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_00: The company is named after my two boys, so there's a lot of emotional attachment with that.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but maybe I find two or three people who say, look, we're not as intense as you, Tom, we're not as obsessed with this as you, but I can hand over to the three of them with Emma still wanting to be that operations position, and I create a five-year buyout where they pay me their dividends for five years.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I uh I have no desire to have 10 guys and to sell out and get out of 45 and go do single.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_00: I love what I do, I don't want to do anything different.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to be able to do this as long as I can until I feel my sort of mind and my my mind and my body begin to wane.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then I can say, and then I can say, yeah, look, this is what I've I've uh I've I've created for nothing other than the situation that you have yourself.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, I love um I love your well-balanced approach to this, the well-being approach.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: You're looking after yourself, mind, body, spirit, your family, the connection you have.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you've got lived experience of bashing yourself into the place of thinking, I can't do this anymore.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_01: And possibly at that point, maybe you've even falling out of love with that type of work because you're thinking to yourself, this is dark.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't particularly want to be doing this every single day on the tube, et cetera.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_01: So um, I know I love where you're going with it.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um, conscious of the time, I could talk to you all day, Tom.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's loads of stuff I want to talk to you about, actually.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna have to continue having a conversation with you um outside of this, I think, because there are future things that I want to do, which you are doing incredibly well.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and with my when we talk about surrounding ourselves with people where you can add value.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_01: 13 years as an expert within financial planning recruitment, which is the toughest thing any company can actually do, is hire the right staff.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I want to align myself with a financial planning company and create one, essentially.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to do any financial planning, no interest in that in the slightest.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I would like my skills to Wow, well, how amazing would that be if you could you could create the solution to the people knocking on your door wanting a job?
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is it, exactly.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I like and I'm kind of well positioned because I see so many different types and speak to so many different types of firms.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm already talking to a power planner at the moment and potentially having the Financial Planner Life Power Planning Company.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's exciting and it's innovative and it's lots of things that are going on.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we are 100% within a startup phase.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's lots of people that can come into this profession and completely disrupt it.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of people that view YouTube and see these innovators and influencers and startups, YouTube channels, all sorts of different things.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_01: And they're making loads of money off their own back.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the fear of setting up your own business is no longer there.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's far easier.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_01: You can put it off the shelf, all the products, all the marketing, everything, branding is can be done for very, very cheap.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_01: And what um you need to learn is a process about how to connect yourself with the right people.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you seem to have that solution.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna be picking your brain in the future to talk to you a little bit about that.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_00: And and nothing would make me happier than a A B C might write a you know, PDF book, ebook, and give it away.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing would make me happier than to say to say to me this is how we've done it, and this is how you can transfer.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because I I've I've I've read a lot and there's nothing I can't remember what what what ideas come from where, but everything that we have done and are doing, I've copied from somebody else.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, everything that we're doing is entirely transferable to any other sector or business, I believe.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't think we have all the answers.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think we do everything um uh brilliantly yet, but we're trying.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um, if I could have this conversation with me three years ago, you know, what could I have achieved then?
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so so yeah, and and because being employed made me so unhappy and so miserable, um now because I am so happy, if I can and I'm and that isn't to say that I'm the people listen to this thing, oh I'm really happy being employed.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um and and there are people who who for them it's yeah, it's fantastic.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_00: But if I can give this to as many people as possible, that would be that would be absolutely fantastic.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I I'm I can share a hell of a lot, just haven't quite could I can't quite condense it into a one-page PDF.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_00: I know what you mean.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I want to get to.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_00: I know what you're saying.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Some things are a little bit more complicated to solve and will be unique to each circumstance.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I think at some stage I possibly could, like this is this is the blueprint, go for it.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_00: But you're absolutely right with those with YouTube and and Twitter and for most people that's the barrier.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is that they they're not sure what their message is to the world, and they're not sure how to share it, and they're not sure how to sort of share sort of themselves in that in that capacity now and have everyone look in on them through their uh yeah, through their social media content.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a book that I would recommend at this point just to close off, would be Simon uh Sinek, start with why.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_01: So if anybody is sitting there thinking they're gonna start their business, then just think with start with why, what's your proposition and why are you doing it?
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um one of the things that I would also say if you're starting up a business is don't make it all about you.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_01: What can you or business do to have a positive impact on others and start thinking that way?
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_01: And if that's just as simple as enough of a percentage of your profit goes towards some charity that you're working with or whatever, do that because it becomes a different type of business and a different type of meaning if you're doing some good for others whilst you're also creating your business.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that good could be quite simply starting with your family having the dad around, you know.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_00: And people, whether whether they benefit from it or uh indirectly uh or or directly themselves, um, they they they will be drawn to that.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think it's in his book he says something like, What's worth doing even if you fail?
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so, wow, and and yeah, if it's worth doing, you won't fail.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the whole that's the whole thing.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Tom, amazing talking to you today.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um thank you for having me on, really appreciate it.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate your time.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_01: I really find it valuable.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for sharing with us today, and um have an amazing sunny weekend.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Sam.