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ALEX MURDAUGH TAKES THE STAND IN 'HAIL MARY' · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. In the last moments, Alex
0:13
Speaker 1: Murdog has just stepped down from the witness stand. That's right,
0:18
Speaker 1: Alex Murdog on the stand in his own defense, waving
0:21
Speaker 1: his right to invoke silence under the Fifth Amendment. He
0:25
Speaker 1: has been on direct examination so far. He's hitting a
0:28
Speaker 1: lot of softballs in that courtroom. We're wondering what's going
0:32
Speaker 1: to happen on cross examination. The jury has just left
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Speaker 1: the courtroom for lunch. I mean, it'sy grace, this is
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at
0:41
Speaker 1: Fox Nation. First of all, here's the biggest thing that
0:45
Speaker 1: happened in the courtroom. As he stuttered and stammered, turned
0:49
Speaker 1: red in the face, sucked his teeth, and his mouth
0:52
Speaker 1: went dry. Alex Murdog insists he did not kill Maggie
0:58
Speaker 1: and Paul. Take a listen to our cut one on
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Speaker 1: June seventh, twenty twenty one. Did you take this gun
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Speaker 1: or any gun like it and shoot your son Paul
1:09
Speaker 1: in the chest in the feed room at your property,
1:11
Speaker 1: off Moselle Rohado. No, I did not, mister murder. Did
1:16
Speaker 1: you take this gun or any gun like it and
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Speaker 1: blow your son's brains out on June seventh, or any
1:23
Speaker 1: day or any time. No, I did not, mister Murder.
1:34
Speaker 1: Did you taken to blackout such as this and fired
1:39
Speaker 1: into your wife Maggie leg Torso or any part of
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Speaker 1: her body? No? I did not. Did you shoot a
1:49
Speaker 1: three hundred blackout into her head causing her death? Mister Gridon,
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Speaker 1: I didn't shoot my wife or my son anytime ever.
2:00
Speaker 1: There you see him sucking his teeth, shaking his head
2:03
Speaker 1: up and down as if saying yes while his mouth
2:07
Speaker 1: was saying no. He goes on to Troy and explained
2:13
Speaker 1: why the very night of the murders, just feet away
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Speaker 1: from his wife and sons dead bodies, he started lying
2:24
Speaker 1: to police. Take a listen hour cut two. Mister murder,
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Speaker 1: is that you on the kennel video at eight forty
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Speaker 1: four pm on June seventh, the night Maggie, Maggie and
2:35
Speaker 1: Paul were murdered? It is were you, in fact at
2:38
Speaker 1: the kennels at eight forty four pm on the night
2:41
Speaker 1: Maggie and Paul were murdered? I was did you lie
2:45
Speaker 1: to sled Agent Ohen and Deputy Laura Rutland on the
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Speaker 1: night of June seventh, and told them that you stayed
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Speaker 1: at the house after dinner. I did lie to them.
2:57
Speaker 1: Did you lie to Agent Ohen Agent Craft on the
3:00
Speaker 1: follow up interview on June ten, that the last time
3:04
Speaker 1: you saw Maggie Paul was at dinner. I did lie
3:08
Speaker 1: to them. And in the interview of August eleventh, did
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Speaker 1: you tell Agent Owen and Agent Krawl did you lie
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Speaker 1: to them by telling them that you were knock down
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Speaker 1: at the kennels on that night? Yes? Okay with me
3:26
Speaker 1: and All Star Panel. I'm gonna take you back in
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Speaker 1: the courtroom just a moment so you can see more
3:29
Speaker 1: of Alex Marlock's testimony on the stand with me at
3:32
Speaker 1: All Star Panel. But first I want to go out
3:35
Speaker 1: to hold on. Do we have Anne Emerson yet? No,
3:38
Speaker 1: She's making her way out straight out to Eric Bland
3:41
Speaker 1: connected to this case through the Satterfield family. Eric Bland,
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Speaker 1: I don't get it. He started lying the very night
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Speaker 1: of the murders. How could he even concoct a lie
3:54
Speaker 1: the very night of the murders? Well, Gilly people always
3:58
Speaker 1: concoc lies, Nancy, and it is another lie because he
4:03
Speaker 1: had no reason to distrust the police. He was a solicitor,
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Speaker 1: his grandfather, his father were solicitors. He had no reason
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Speaker 1: to distrust Sled. There was nothing that Sled had done
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Speaker 1: on the night of the murders that he would begin
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Speaker 1: as lying. So the other thing that I think that
4:22
Speaker 1: was poignant was he just turned on Michelle Smith, a
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Speaker 1: lovely lady who takes care of his mother, and said
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Speaker 1: she lied about the blue tarp, and she lied about
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Speaker 1: the thirty or forty seconds. So what we have is
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Speaker 1: if the lies are told by him, there's a reason
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Speaker 1: for it, there's an explanation. But if somebody else tells
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Speaker 1: something that is detrimental to him, they are lying and
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Speaker 1: you need to believe him. Again, he put his hand
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Speaker 1: on a bible, so we're supposed to believe him today,
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Speaker 1: even though he's a thief, even though he's a drug addict,
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Speaker 1: and you prosecute in many cases, there's two people that
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Speaker 1: can there's two people that can't be repeated, Nancy drug
5:03
Speaker 1: of thieves and pedophiles, and he's a thief. Okay, I'm
5:07
Speaker 1: trying to hear through all the commotion at the courthouse.
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Speaker 1: Eric Bland, do you refer to the housekeeper that Murdoch
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Speaker 1: just said on the stand was lying and I have
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Speaker 1: a titled in him my twenty pages of notes I've
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Speaker 1: taken since he took the stand the blue tarp Lie
5:24
Speaker 1: Alex Murdoch says, I did not take a blue tarp
5:28
Speaker 1: or a rain jacket into my mom's home. Now, he
5:34
Speaker 1: also says, I never quote fixed witnesses or try to
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Speaker 1: influence police officers. Now, I'm telling you, number one, you're
5:44
Speaker 1: right bland. He is calling that lady a liar, and
5:48
Speaker 1: she was really convincing on the stand, one of the
5:52
Speaker 1: best witnesses they've had. And he has now opened up
5:56
Speaker 1: the door to trying to fix witnesses and influence police officers. Now,
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Speaker 1: I got to tell you something, and this pains me
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Speaker 1: as a former prosecutor. I have not been for the
6:07
Speaker 1: first time in court. I have not been impressed with
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Speaker 1: the state at all because they're letting a free flow
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Speaker 1: of narrative. I mean, I said earlier, what's he gonna
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Speaker 1: do talk about the first time he fall off a
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Speaker 1: bike and scrape his knees and he's a little boy.
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Speaker 1: I mean, how far is this going to go? There
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Speaker 1: needs to be objection, objection, objection, objection, and breaking up
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Speaker 1: that testimony. But okay, it hasn't happened. Do you think
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Speaker 1: they'll figure out that the door has been opened to
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Speaker 1: influencing officers and fixing testimony. I do, and I also
6:40
Speaker 1: have been talking to my friends in the courtroom. Six
6:44
Speaker 1: jurors have turned away from him, So right now half
6:47
Speaker 1: of the jurors have turned away and are not listening
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Speaker 1: to him. Don't forget every time he's wrong, he gets
6:54
Speaker 1: a free pass under his testimony. Oh, I was wrong
6:57
Speaker 1: about the timeline, I was wrong of a four hours,
7:00
Speaker 1: But every time somebody else gives testimony that's detrimental to him,
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Speaker 1: it's a lie. Nancy. I'm telling you I trust this
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Speaker 1: justice system, but we're seeing a pollution of it being
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Speaker 1: done by Alex on this witness stand and his own
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Speaker 1: lawyers for counting this type of false testimony. Guys, I'm
7:20
Speaker 1: hearing the other guests trying to break in. I want
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Speaker 1: you to hear one more thing though, Guys, Christine, could
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Speaker 1: you play could you play Mornock's testimony when he's trying
7:31
Speaker 1: to explain why he lied? This is cut three? Why
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Speaker 1: did you lie? Hey? Gowen, agent Craft and definitely Rutland
7:40
Speaker 1: about the last time you saw Maggie and Paul as
7:43
Speaker 1: my addiction evolved over time, I would get any situations
7:50
Speaker 1: or circumstances where I would get paranoid thinking, And it
7:55
Speaker 1: could be anything that triggered. It might be a look
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Speaker 1: somebody gave me. It might be a reaction and somebody
8:00
Speaker 1: had to something I did. It might be a policeman
8:03
Speaker 1: following me in a car that night June seven, after
8:11
Speaker 1: finding Mags and Paul, don't talk to anybody without Danny
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Speaker 1: with you. All my partners were just repeatedly telling me
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Speaker 1: that I'm sitting in the police car with David Owen
8:29
Speaker 1: asking me about my relationship with my wife and my son,
8:35
Speaker 1: and all those things coupled together after finding them, coupled
8:40
Speaker 1: with my distrust for Sled, caused me to have paranoid thoughts. Okay,
8:47
Speaker 1: now hold on just a moment there, please, prosecutors used
8:52
Speaker 1: what he just said, didn't all the lawyers come up
8:56
Speaker 1: on the stand and state that they were there that
8:59
Speaker 1: night as friends. And now, when your wife and your
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Speaker 1: son are dead on the floor of the dog kennel,
9:08
Speaker 1: their body's just torn apart with bullets, you're worried about
9:13
Speaker 1: telling the truth because it might make you look bad.
9:18
Speaker 1: Oh no, No, that's the time that you tell the
9:22
Speaker 1: whole truth and nothing but the truth because you want
9:25
Speaker 1: to find the real killer. I mean, straight out to
9:29
Speaker 1: Chris McDonough, high profile former homicide investigator. Now start the
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Speaker 1: interview room. Wouldn't you think if I'm just telling you,
9:41
Speaker 1: I would tell the police whatever they wanted to know
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Speaker 1: right then, because I would want their killer caught a
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Speaker 1: thousand percent? Nancy, I mean, you can't script this. What
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Speaker 1: he's doing from the get goal is he is his
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Speaker 1: testimony is bas upon the investigative facts that he has
10:03
Speaker 1: learned up to this date. And he you know, by
10:06
Speaker 1: pulling in the fact that that the very first words
10:10
Speaker 1: out of his mouth which could backfire a thousand percent
10:15
Speaker 1: for the defense to take on right away. You know,
10:19
Speaker 1: did you lie that evening? I mean, we're watching in
10:24
Speaker 1: real time the way he adapts, the way he deflects,
10:30
Speaker 1: calculates and then qualifies his answers, and we would call
10:35
Speaker 1: this guy the helper or the salesman, and those five
10:40
Speaker 1: steps to a sale prospect, personalized promote, creating clothes. All
10:45
Speaker 1: he's looking for is one juror to close by his
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Speaker 1: testimony today. Okay, Eric Bland, Now Eric, this is a yes,
10:55
Speaker 1: no answer. Okay, did you think Murdoch was going to
11:01
Speaker 1: take the stand? No, Okay, I'm with you on that.
11:04
Speaker 1: I thought he may believe he was smart enough to
11:07
Speaker 1: outsmart everybody in the courtroom and want to take the stand.
11:11
Speaker 1: But I thought Hartpoolian would you know, strong arm him
11:15
Speaker 1: not to take the stand. But when he announced, when
11:19
Speaker 1: they announced that their client wanted to take a bathroom
11:22
Speaker 1: break before the next witness, I'm like, he's taking a
11:25
Speaker 1: stand he has taken. Why else would he want a
11:28
Speaker 1: bathroom break before an extended period of time on the stand.
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Speaker 1: You know, I'm thinking about what's really happening here. Eric,
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Speaker 1: I think this is what's happening. Yeah, go ahead. Ordinarily,
11:40
Speaker 1: there isn't a defense attorney in the world that would
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Speaker 1: recommend to his client under these circumstances, given all the
11:45
Speaker 1: other four or four p evidence that has come in,
11:48
Speaker 1: and once you get on the stand, you wave your
11:50
Speaker 1: fifth to take the stand. However, I think in Alex's mind,
11:54
Speaker 1: he's saying, Nancy, look, I'm going to be convicted of
11:57
Speaker 1: all the financial crime stuff, and I'm going to get
12:00
Speaker 1: life without parole probably on that stuff. So what do
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Speaker 1: I have to lose? That's kind of. I believe his
12:07
Speaker 1: thought process. I think it's bad because if you get
12:10
Speaker 1: convicted of murder, it's thirty to life. And I think
12:14
Speaker 1: this judge, if he gets a conviction on murder, is
12:17
Speaker 1: going to give him life. Whereas under the financial crimes,
12:20
Speaker 1: maybe he gets forty years, maybe he gets thirty. Then
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Speaker 1: you get in state time fifty two percent time off.
12:28
Speaker 1: He gets out maybe when he's sixty seven, sixty seventy
12:32
Speaker 1: years old. I think it was the worst decision by
12:35
Speaker 1: lawyers I've ever seen, but I could be proven wrong
12:37
Speaker 1: if there's that durer. Eric, Let's just get real. Are
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Speaker 1: you telling me that the state of South Carolina would
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Speaker 1: keep a safe in jail and use a bedspace when
12:49
Speaker 1: they want to put a child molester, a killer, a
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Speaker 1: serial killer, somebody that's a bomber or an artsist. Oh no,
12:58
Speaker 1: they're taking that bed and a thief, the white collar
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Speaker 1: criminal they're getting out. He won't be in there fifteen years,
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Speaker 1: he won't even be in there ten years on nine
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Speaker 1: million dollars stiff. That's not gonna happen. Do I like it? No?
13:12
Speaker 1: Is it true? Yes, he'll probably get out on all
13:15
Speaker 1: that fift and about eight nine years max because they
13:19
Speaker 1: need the bedspace. That's the harsh reality time stories with
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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Now, this is what I was gonna tell everybody.
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Speaker 1: Everybody on the panel, jump in on this. This is
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Speaker 1: what's happening. The defense waits, they listen to the states case,
13:50
Speaker 1: they write down everything they need to explain away, and
13:54
Speaker 1: you practice practice practice with the client. Then you put
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Speaker 1: him on the stand and you have him respond to
14:03
Speaker 1: all of those issues. This testimony is carefully constructed after
14:11
Speaker 1: the defense has seen the state's case, and now they
14:14
Speaker 1: are responding to issues brought up by the state. That
14:18
Speaker 1: is what is happening right now. Eric, could you explain that. Yeah,
14:23
Speaker 1: it's a total rehearsed Broadway performance. And like the first
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Speaker 1: guests said, he's been crafting this story over the last
14:32
Speaker 1: two years. Is he's learned more and more evidence. However,
14:36
Speaker 1: his answers are too polished, and there's twenty four years
14:40
Speaker 1: and twenty four eyes on that jury and they can
14:43
Speaker 1: smell the BS meter a mile away, and it's just
14:47
Speaker 1: too many coincidences, too many explanations. I don't believe it's
14:53
Speaker 1: going to hold water. However, there could be one juror.
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Speaker 1: But I also disagree with you on the aspect of
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Speaker 1: the sencing. Don't forget that the federal government is waiting
15:03
Speaker 1: to charge him on all the money laundering crime. It's
15:05
Speaker 1: the whole another thing. The reason they're not doing it.
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Speaker 1: You get defends in it, and he's looking at serious
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Speaker 1: jail time. But if it's just state theft, oh yeah,
15:15
Speaker 1: he'll be out seven or eight years now. I can
15:17
Speaker 1: tell you this. According to Alex Murdog, he was quote
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Speaker 1: afraid and distrustful of sled law enforcement the Knight of
15:27
Speaker 1: the Murders. But as Bland has just pointed out, he
15:31
Speaker 1: was a local solicitor, a prosecutor. You're not afraid of
15:35
Speaker 1: the cops. They're your best witnesses on the stand, So
15:38
Speaker 1: why was he afraid of them? Now? A lo and
15:41
Speaker 1: behold the Knight of the Murders. I want you to
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Speaker 1: hear him talking about his paranoid thoughts in our cut three.
15:51
Speaker 1: Why did you lie? Heyden, agent Craft and definitely Rutland
15:56
Speaker 1: about the last time you saw Maggie and Paul. As
15:59
Speaker 1: my addiction evolved over time, I would get any situations
16:06
Speaker 1: and circumstances where I would get paranoid thinking, and it
16:11
Speaker 1: could be anything that triggered. It might be a look
16:14
Speaker 1: somebody gave me. It might be a reaction somebody had
16:16
Speaker 1: to something I did. It might be a policeman following
16:19
Speaker 1: me in a car that night June seven, after finding
16:28
Speaker 1: Magis and Paula, don't talk to anybody without Danny with you.
16:36
Speaker 1: All my partners were just repeatedly telling me that I'm
16:40
Speaker 1: sitting in a police car with David Owen asking me
16:46
Speaker 1: about my relationship with my wife and my son, and
16:51
Speaker 1: all those things coupled together after finding them, coupled with
16:57
Speaker 1: my distrust for Sled caused me to have paranoid thoughts,
17:02
Speaker 1: caused me to have paranoid thoughts. But he didn't have
17:06
Speaker 1: any paranoid thoughts until he got in the car with
17:09
Speaker 1: the police. Then he started lying, yeah, Jampan quickly. Can
17:15
Speaker 1: you imagine a solicitor telling the world I shouldn't cooperate
17:19
Speaker 1: with the police when my wife and my son are murder.
17:22
Speaker 1: Can you imagine a lawyer who took an oath to
17:26
Speaker 1: hold the constitution in the law, and he's a solicitor
17:30
Speaker 1: is advocating from the witness stand, don't cooperate with the
17:33
Speaker 1: police when your wife and son are murder. You know
17:35
Speaker 1: another thing I noticed joining me I'm hearing in my
17:37
Speaker 1: ear right now. And Emerson is with US senior investigative
17:41
Speaker 1: reporter w CIV and starved unsold South Carolina, the Murdoch murders,
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Speaker 1: money and mystery. And another thing I saw him doing
17:51
Speaker 1: very artfully, is explaining why he didn't hear the gunshots.
17:59
Speaker 1: He said that and it was very circuitous. He claimed
18:03
Speaker 1: that Maggie had asked him to come out to the kennel,
18:06
Speaker 1: don't know why, and that he had said no, that
18:10
Speaker 1: he and Maggie had eaten, and he had been sweating
18:14
Speaker 1: to a shower. He laid down on the sofa, but
18:17
Speaker 1: then suddenly he has a change of heart and goes
18:21
Speaker 1: to see his mom. Now, listen to this. He said,
18:25
Speaker 1: he laid down. He just artfully wove this in. I
18:29
Speaker 1: had the air conditioner going, the TV was always going,
18:34
Speaker 1: and I just left to go see my mom. And
18:37
Speaker 1: then I texted them, why not just go down to
18:39
Speaker 1: the kennel and go, hey, I'm leaving guys, because that
18:42
Speaker 1: did not fit into his scenario. I mean, he laid
18:46
Speaker 1: it all out and I had the air condition going,
18:49
Speaker 1: so I couldn't hear the TV was going, so I
18:52
Speaker 1: couldn't hear. He laid it all out very artfully, and
18:57
Speaker 1: he absolutely did nance in. If you're watching him, he's
19:00
Speaker 1: watching the jurors. That's what he was doing. He is absolutely,
19:05
Speaker 1: you know, trying this case, right. He is a lawyer
19:09
Speaker 1: on this stand, so he's looking at the jury the
19:12
Speaker 1: entire time, gauging their reaction, waiting for good pauses. He's
19:17
Speaker 1: been working on this story since he felt like he
19:21
Speaker 1: needed to, as soon as he needed to come up
19:23
Speaker 1: with all of these to weave in all of this
19:26
Speaker 1: information that you're talking about from the television that was
19:30
Speaker 1: on to the AC it just fits perfectly with what
19:34
Speaker 1: he needs the jurors to understand about what was going
19:37
Speaker 1: on that night. So it is absolutely it is absolutely
19:43
Speaker 1: feels very much a story that he has been able
19:46
Speaker 1: to work through in his mind and get to where
19:51
Speaker 1: he needs to and felt like he was ready to
19:53
Speaker 1: do it today, so he went off. Guys, I gotta
19:55
Speaker 1: tell you something. As much as I think Alex Murdog
19:59
Speaker 1: murdered his wife and son, he is doing a really
20:03
Speaker 1: good job on the stand. Now. Granted this is direct examination,
20:07
Speaker 1: it's rehearsed. He knows exactly what's going to come next.
20:11
Speaker 1: And he's doing a good job. And like Ann Emerson
20:13
Speaker 1: is saying, he's looking right at the jury, right in
20:15
Speaker 1: the face, like a snake charmer, going back and forth.
20:19
Speaker 1: He says something, he watches their reaction, then he says
20:22
Speaker 1: something else, then he watches their reaction. He's looking right
20:26
Speaker 1: at them. And if you've been in that court, and
20:27
Speaker 1: you know he's only about maybe ten twelve feet away
20:31
Speaker 1: from them, he's up close and personal with the jurors.
20:36
Speaker 1: Now take a listen to our cut seven as he
20:38
Speaker 1: has described me, his wife now dead, asking him to
20:42
Speaker 1: come down to the kennels. Our cut seven, Maggie wanted
20:46
Speaker 1: to go to the kennels. I had eaten dinner. I
20:49
Speaker 1: laid back on the couch where I was sitting on.
20:51
Speaker 1: Maggie wanted to go to the kennels, and she asked
20:54
Speaker 1: me to go, and I didn't go. At that time,
20:58
Speaker 1: I didn't want to go. Why didn't you want to go?
21:01
Speaker 1: It was hot, I just had a shower. I knew
21:05
Speaker 1: i'd end up doing more work, sweating more. The dogs
21:08
Speaker 1: is always a chaotic scene, and I just didn't want
21:12
Speaker 1: to go. Right then she left him. Papaul was gone.
21:14
Speaker 1: And did you stay in the house? Yes? For how long?
21:18
Speaker 1: Not long? I laid back on the couch, put my
21:21
Speaker 1: feet up, and like many times when Maggie asked me
21:25
Speaker 1: to do something that I didn't want to do or
21:27
Speaker 1: didn't start out doing, I changed my mind and decided
21:32
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ride up there, and I did. And how
21:37
Speaker 1: did you get to the kennels? I went on a
21:39
Speaker 1: golf cart, which would explain why we don't see his
21:43
Speaker 1: car door open up and close, or any movement on
21:47
Speaker 1: the GPS system. Now, am I supposed to believe that
21:51
Speaker 1: he took a shower that night before nine o'clock and
21:56
Speaker 1: that the next day, well into the next day, when
22:00
Speaker 1: the housekeeper gets there, she finds water still around the floor.
22:08
Speaker 1: Is that what we're supposed to believe? But now I
22:11
Speaker 1: want you to listen how comfortable he is as he's
22:15
Speaker 1: talking about something I don't think he's lying about, and
22:18
Speaker 1: that would be the kennels, the sunflowers, the dogs, all
22:24
Speaker 1: of that which may have actually been true. He doesn't
22:28
Speaker 1: look away, he doesn't turn red, he doesn't suck on
22:32
Speaker 1: his lips, his mouth doesn't go dry. Take a listen
22:35
Speaker 1: to our cut eight Grady's chasing the guineas, the PAW's
22:40
Speaker 1: fooling with Rogan's dog Cash. Maggie's just kind of standing
22:43
Speaker 1: there watching the dogs. Bubba catches the chicken. What'd you
22:46
Speaker 1: do after you got the chicken out of bubbas mouth?
22:48
Speaker 1: I got out of there, I left. I went back
22:52
Speaker 1: to the house. And what'd you do when you got
22:54
Speaker 1: back to the house. I laid down on the couch.
22:56
Speaker 1: I'm not positive I dozed off for a minute or
22:59
Speaker 1: didn't doze off for a minute, but I got up
23:02
Speaker 1: off of the couch and I was I made up
23:06
Speaker 1: my mind. I was going to visit my mom. Okay,
23:09
Speaker 1: straight out to doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist at Angela
23:14
Speaker 1: Arnold MD dot com. Way in Doctor Angie, you know, Nancy,
23:18
Speaker 1: one of the things that I'm wondering about is this
23:21
Speaker 1: paranoia that he talks about. And if he was so paranoid,
23:26
Speaker 1: then I do not understand why he wasn't paranoid when
23:30
Speaker 1: he came upon his dead son and wife that someone
23:34
Speaker 1: was going to be laying in wait to kill him.
23:37
Speaker 1: I don't understand why he wasn't scared about that. And
23:41
Speaker 1: you know, you can't turn paranoia on and off. Also,
23:45
Speaker 1: I completely agree with you, Nancy. It's funny how there
23:48
Speaker 1: will be times when he's running through his repertoire about
23:53
Speaker 1: what going on, what went on, and it does sound
23:55
Speaker 1: a little bit more believable. But I think he talks
23:58
Speaker 1: too much. I think I think that's why they're letting
24:01
Speaker 1: him talk. He says things that maybe he shouldn't be saying,
24:06
Speaker 1: and he's giving people more information than they're even asking for.
24:10
Speaker 1: I find that very interesting also, and I think that
24:12
Speaker 1: they're going to use that against him at some point.
24:14
Speaker 1: But the paranoia, the paranoia is a big thing. Does
24:18
Speaker 1: he turn his paranoia on and off? And why wasn't
24:21
Speaker 1: he scared that he was going to be shot when
24:24
Speaker 1: he came across their two bodies at the kennel? Yeah,
24:27
Speaker 1: you know, doctor Michelle Dupre pathologists medical examiner, former detective
24:34
Speaker 1: Doctor Dupree. His paranoia that evening only sets in when
24:41
Speaker 1: the cops start talking to him. I mean, if you're
24:44
Speaker 1: paranoid because it drugs, wouldn't you be crazy paranoid when
24:49
Speaker 1: you find two dead bodies and run from the scene
24:53
Speaker 1: and go hide in the car get away. I mean,
24:56
Speaker 1: if you're paranoid due to drug addiction. He seemed to
25:02
Speaker 1: hold it in check to call nine one one and
25:04
Speaker 1: speak coherently on the phone, but when the cops start
25:07
Speaker 1: questioning him, the paranoia sets in. Exactly Nancy again. I
25:12
Speaker 1: think this whole thing is bogus. I think that he
25:15
Speaker 1: has a very carefully crafted explanation for the discrepancies in
25:19
Speaker 1: the state's case. I think that he is too emphatic
25:23
Speaker 1: when he makes the denials of some of these things,
25:26
Speaker 1: and I think that he is trying so hard to
25:29
Speaker 1: discredit some very very credible witnesses like Shelley. I don't
25:34
Speaker 1: think it's really working. I hope the jury can see
25:36
Speaker 1: through this because when he does talk about the sunflower
25:39
Speaker 1: field and other things, it just rolls right off the
25:42
Speaker 1: tongue very easily, but not so much when you start
25:45
Speaker 1: talking about the details of what really happened that night. Yeah,
25:49
Speaker 1: you know what, doctor Michelle Dupree, You're right. Take a
25:51
Speaker 1: listen to our cut five. It's exactly what she just said.
25:55
Speaker 1: I'd known that CB, the guy that worked for us,
25:58
Speaker 1: had sprayed the sunflowers. I knew about that, but I'd
26:02
Speaker 1: been out of town. I didn't know they would dead.
26:04
Speaker 1: Paul let me know they had died, so we had
26:06
Speaker 1: to replant the dove field. Just a big, big social
26:09
Speaker 1: part of having property. People would come and so the
26:13
Speaker 1: dove field was a big deal. So when when the
26:16
Speaker 1: Sunflowers got killed, Paul was We knew they were dead.
26:20
Speaker 1: Paul was coming home. Mister murder, did you take hundred
26:27
Speaker 1: black out such as this and fired into your wife
26:32
Speaker 1: Maggie leg Torso or any part of her body? No?
26:38
Speaker 1: I did not. Did you shoot a three hundred blackout
26:43
Speaker 1: into her head causing her dead? Mister Griffin, I didn't
26:48
Speaker 1: shoot my wife or my son anytime ever? I hear
26:52
Speaker 1: Eric Bland Champion, go ahead. Eric. There's two things that
26:55
Speaker 1: I think are really important. One happened with Nolan Tooting,
26:59
Speaker 1: the witness before Alex this morning. That is really interesting.
27:03
Speaker 1: He confirmed that no one would ever know where Paul
27:07
Speaker 1: would be staying. He could be staying in Charleston, Summerville, Columbia, Greenville.
27:12
Speaker 1: So how would a killer know where he was going
27:15
Speaker 1: to be that night in order to come and kill
27:18
Speaker 1: him because of the voting accident. That's number one. And
27:21
Speaker 1: number two the thing that really bothers me more than anything.
27:26
Speaker 1: Alex called thirteen different people and texted four different people,
27:31
Speaker 1: including Paul's best friend, three times and called him before
27:37
Speaker 1: he called his only living son, Buster forty minutes later
27:41
Speaker 1: to tell him that his mother and brother were killed
27:46
Speaker 1: were killed. I find that very curious. I want to
27:49
Speaker 1: follow up on what you just said, Eric bland and Emerson.
27:53
Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to our cut thirteen. Now.
27:56
Speaker 1: I think about what Eric Blande just pointed out, and
27:58
Speaker 1: he's right. If this was somehow a hit on Paul
28:03
Speaker 1: Murdog because of the boat crash, killing Mallory Beach and
28:10
Speaker 1: Maggie just happened to be there at the time, how
28:13
Speaker 1: would anyone have known how to find Paul Murdog? And
28:18
Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen him already developing
28:23
Speaker 1: an alternate reality in our cut thirteen. Listen, I'm gonna know, Ali,
28:38
Speaker 1: we just heard you say I should have known what
28:40
Speaker 1: are you referring to? I said Paul, Paul. I should
28:43
Speaker 1: have known what were you referring to? I was referring
28:48
Speaker 1: to Paul. Paul got so many threats, didn't take serious
29:00
Speaker 1: twice about I'm just telling them blah, Paul, As you
29:05
Speaker 1: could have known, what kind of thrust did you understand
29:08
Speaker 1: Paula is receiving. He got the most vowed threats. I
29:13
Speaker 1: mean the stuff that was on social media. He couldn't
29:16
Speaker 1: believe it. It was so over to top. Truthfully, we
29:21
Speaker 1: didn't think anything about it. Eric Bland, That's exactly what
29:25
Speaker 1: you were talking about. If there were threats they were
29:28
Speaker 1: so afraid of, why didn't they go to police? He
29:30
Speaker 1: used the police, Nancy, he's the solicitor. He controls the
29:35
Speaker 1: entire department. Everybody who works for the police department knows
29:40
Speaker 1: the murders. They are hundred years solicitors. If my son
29:44
Speaker 1: or my daughter were threatened, the first call I would
29:48
Speaker 1: make is to the police to go on record about it.
29:52
Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense because it's not true. They
29:56
Speaker 1: didn't listen. You know, they didn't introduce They didn't The
30:04
Speaker 1: defense has not introduced one single social media text message
30:09
Speaker 1: or Instagram or Facebook that paul was under threats, and
30:13
Speaker 1: Alex said it was all over the Internet and all
30:17
Speaker 1: over social media. All they had to do was show
30:20
Speaker 1: us that. You know another thing, Eric Bland, It is unconstitutional,
30:25
Speaker 1: as interpreted by case law, for the state to comment
30:29
Speaker 1: on a defense right to remain silent. However, if they
30:33
Speaker 1: bring up witnesses that can bolster or corroborate their story,
30:38
Speaker 1: and then don't produce those witnesses, the state can attack it.
30:41
Speaker 1: And this is exactly what's happening here, all of these
30:44
Speaker 1: quote vile threats on Paul after the boat crash, Who,
30:49
Speaker 1: what where? Why? Why didn't you go to cops? I
30:52
Speaker 1: will be stunned if the state doesn't pick up on
30:57
Speaker 1: that and tear him a new rear end. Eric A, Yeah,
31:04
Speaker 1: I wanted to. I wanted to say, like, pop in
31:06
Speaker 1: there for a second. You know, I've got a teenager,
31:09
Speaker 1: Um you're going you know through that as well, Nancy,
31:12
Speaker 1: with with social media, I bet you know. What we
31:15
Speaker 1: have learned is that the kids are tracking each other
31:18
Speaker 1: all the time. So that's a that's there's there's two
31:21
Speaker 1: sides of that coin, right, one of which is yes,
31:24
Speaker 1: I think the defense could show that his friends knew
31:28
Speaker 1: exactly where Paul was at any given time because he's
31:30
Speaker 1: on snapchat all the time. And that's how you know,
31:33
Speaker 1: people find Teenagersey's days like they know where they are because,
31:37
Speaker 1: you know, because a snapchat. So I don't think that's
31:40
Speaker 1: a huge mystery. What I do think is very mysterious
31:44
Speaker 1: is what Eric Bland brought up. He was very as
31:47
Speaker 1: suit and saying, you know, well, then why aren't they
31:49
Speaker 1: pulling all of the social media. I was thinking the
31:51
Speaker 1: same thing as we were sitting in there. If I'm
31:53
Speaker 1: thinking it, Eric's thinking it, you know, the Jersey's thinking it.
31:56
Speaker 1: Guys we see repeatedly lying to police. But he is
32:03
Speaker 1: blaming his quote drug induced paranoia and his fear and
32:08
Speaker 1: distrust of law enforcement as to why he lied. But
32:12
Speaker 1: I find it very curious to Chris mcdonna, former homicide
32:15
Speaker 1: detective handling literally hundreds of homicides, that while his wife
32:20
Speaker 1: and son were lying there dead, he had to wherewithal
32:24
Speaker 1: to suddenly distrust them and lie. That's might be concern
32:29
Speaker 1: that he is lying almost immediately about the events that night.
32:33
Speaker 1: I mean, because it would be very important, wouldn't it,
32:36
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonna to be able to tell the cops, Hey,
32:39
Speaker 1: they were alive at eight forty seven, because I was
32:43
Speaker 1: in the kennel and there's a snapchat to show it,
32:45
Speaker 1: there's a video to show it. There is a message
32:49
Speaker 1: to Rogan Rogan Gibson showing what time they were last alive.
32:53
Speaker 1: So whoever killed them had to be watching because then
32:57
Speaker 1: I left to go to my mom's and when I
32:59
Speaker 1: get back one hour later, they're dead. So you need
33:03
Speaker 1: to go check the parameters. You need to check ring
33:06
Speaker 1: doorbell cams in the area, anything to figure out who
33:09
Speaker 1: could have been watching me leave. You're a thousand percent
33:13
Speaker 1: right again, Nancy. I mean, and if we think about
33:17
Speaker 1: overlaying the statement, apology statement is what we'll call it.
33:22
Speaker 1: While he was in rehab to the sled officers, you
33:27
Speaker 1: see the same type of behavior taking place there as
33:30
Speaker 1: you saw you taking place when he first took the stand.
33:33
Speaker 1: I made a list today of some of the simple
33:37
Speaker 1: phrases that he uses, and I'm hoping the prosecutors on
33:42
Speaker 1: target here and I can only imagine if what you're thinking,
33:45
Speaker 1: if you had a chance. But but listen to this shortlist,
33:48
Speaker 1: real fast, unintentional. I think, I believe, I don't know,
33:53
Speaker 1: not exactly sure, I don't remember sure, helps looking at
33:57
Speaker 1: the records, can't tell unless I had the details. And
34:01
Speaker 1: the list goes on, and that's the short list. This
34:04
Speaker 1: guy is lying every second of the moment he opens
34:09
Speaker 1: his bot. I just very surprised. The state is kicked
34:13
Speaker 1: back like they're lounging on a recliner. They I would
34:17
Speaker 1: have thought, would be pacing back and forth like a tiger,
34:20
Speaker 1: waiting to jump in every time they can make an objection.
34:24
Speaker 1: Hold on, I think I've still got land with me.
34:26
Speaker 1: What were you saying? Yes, I just wrote that list
34:29
Speaker 1: down and I just sent it to Solicitor Waters. I've
34:33
Speaker 1: been communicating with him every single day and he welcomes
34:37
Speaker 1: everything that anybody wants to give him and he reads it.
34:40
Speaker 1: Any comments back, Okay, you know, thank you for that. Guys.
34:43
Speaker 1: We're taking you back into the courtroom to hear what
34:47
Speaker 1: Alen Smerlock said on the stand. Now, remember this is
34:50
Speaker 1: under direct examination. I hope he will be questioned severely
34:57
Speaker 1: on cross exam. Right now, he's tailoring all of his
35:01
Speaker 1: testimony to respond to issues brought up by the state
35:04
Speaker 1: in their case. Take a listen to our cut four
35:08
Speaker 1: on June seventh. I wasn't thinking clearly. I don't think
35:14
Speaker 1: I was capable of reason, and I lied about being
35:21
Speaker 1: down there, and I'm so sorry that I did. I'm
35:32
Speaker 1: sorry to my son Buster, I'm sorry to Grandma and
35:40
Speaker 1: Papa Tea. I'm sorry to both of our families. Most
35:55
Speaker 1: of all, I'm sorry to Max Vallball. I would never
36:05
Speaker 1: intentionally do anything to hurt either one of them ever,
36:18
Speaker 1: straight out to Anne Emerson joining us to BCIV, ABC
36:23
Speaker 1: and okay, hold on satellite, down on. And you know,
36:26
Speaker 1: I'm very curious as to how the jury is responding
36:31
Speaker 1: to what he is saying on the stand. You know,
36:36
Speaker 1: very often, to you, doctor Michelle Dupre, You've been in
36:38
Speaker 1: so many courtrooms that the jurors don't know how to respond.
36:43
Speaker 1: But when you have jurars actually looking away from the defendant,
36:47
Speaker 1: that's a very bad sign, absolutely, Nancy. And you know,
36:51
Speaker 1: he just continues to lie. He lied about not ever
36:54
Speaker 1: wearing the blue raincoat and yeah, the DNA when they
36:57
Speaker 1: tested that for possession or owner ship of that, it
37:01
Speaker 1: clearly came back to Alex. I mean, this is another
37:03
Speaker 1: blatant law and his testimony is just filled with those.
37:07
Speaker 1: You know, I'm very curious, Chris McDonough about the non
37:11
Speaker 1: verbal messages that are being sent in the courtroom and
37:15
Speaker 1: how the jury may be responding. They can't take notes,
37:19
Speaker 1: they're not taking notes like we are. What do you
37:22
Speaker 1: make of how he is addressing the jury so carefully, Well,
37:27
Speaker 1: he is very specific about how he's answering his questions,
37:33
Speaker 1: and that comes from obviously years of experience in a courtroom.
37:39
Speaker 1: What's really interesting about that last clip you just played
37:44
Speaker 1: is he was very methodical and how he answered it. However,
37:48
Speaker 1: he used the word intentionally. I would never intentionally, So
37:55
Speaker 1: what does that mean? Does that mean he unintentionally something?
38:01
Speaker 1: Does it mean his paranoia took over? I think the
38:05
Speaker 1: prosecutor should really go after that that comment right there,
38:10
Speaker 1: and that may break him Luci into a thought process
38:12
Speaker 1: that he wasn't anticipating. Correct. I mean, I wonder if
38:16
Speaker 1: it's dawned on the jurars that he is behaving this
38:20
Speaker 1: way because he's under the influence of opioids. Can't they
38:23
Speaker 1: connect two plus two equals four? What else would he
38:26
Speaker 1: do if he was high on drugs? Would he commit
38:29
Speaker 1: a double murder? Let's take a listen to more in
38:32
Speaker 1: our cut six of how murdog is explaining away issues
38:36
Speaker 1: brought up by the state. The clothes that we saw
38:39
Speaker 1: in that snapchat video was is that the clothes he
38:43
Speaker 1: had at work that day? Yes, those are the clothes
38:48
Speaker 1: I had on at work that day on June seventh.
38:51
Speaker 1: Helped all worry and how much did you wigh? I'm
38:54
Speaker 1: six a little I'm a hero over sixty four right
38:57
Speaker 1: at six four on June to seventh, I was about
39:00
Speaker 1: two hundred and sixty five pounds to sixty four to
39:04
Speaker 1: sixty five when you're outside, riding around, and do you
39:10
Speaker 1: get hide and sweating? Absolutely? I mean Paul and I
39:13
Speaker 1: have done some things. We unloaded the bulldozs and clean
39:17
Speaker 1: the bulldozs. We fooled around. Yeah, I mean I sweated.
39:21
Speaker 1: I was you know, I was heavy. And taking prescription
39:28
Speaker 1: pills also makes you sweat worse, or at least taking
39:31
Speaker 1: oxycodon makes you sweat. So was it unusual for you
39:34
Speaker 1: to take a shower when you got back to the house,
39:36
Speaker 1: Not at all. After you took a shower, what did
39:40
Speaker 1: you change into? I changed into the clothes that you've
39:47
Speaker 1: seen in this trial. Shorts in the shirt. Okay. There
39:52
Speaker 1: we see him very calmly explaining away the wardrobe change. Okay,
39:59
Speaker 1: the wardrobe. How did that strike you? Eric Bland, just
40:05
Speaker 1: another one of his lies. He's saying that he sweats
40:08
Speaker 1: a lit It was a benign change of clothes. Nancy.
40:13
Speaker 1: You know they're going to use the drug use to
40:15
Speaker 1: their advantage. But let me explain something and you can
40:18
Speaker 1: say it better than anybody. The jails are full of
40:21
Speaker 1: people who take drugs and commit crimes. No state has
40:24
Speaker 1: a defense of criminality because I'm on drugs. He knew
40:29
Speaker 1: enough to steal from his clients for twenty years. He
40:32
Speaker 1: knew enough to lie to all his law partners and
40:34
Speaker 1: family and friends. Nancy, I know we're frustrated because we're
40:38
Speaker 1: seeing a lack of objection, but there's so much fodder
40:42
Speaker 1: for cross examination. I'm confident that Creighton Wooters will bring
40:47
Speaker 1: the heat. Well. He's done a great job so far.
40:50
Speaker 1: And you know, I've gotten tons of emails. We're looking
40:54
Speaker 1: at everything on social media. So many people believe he's
40:58
Speaker 1: doing a good job on direct and I've got to
41:00
Speaker 1: tell you, I agree with you. I'm peeking it apart
41:04
Speaker 1: because that's what I'm trained to do. I'm seeing lies
41:08
Speaker 1: and inconsistencies. I'm seeing him tailoring his direct examination to
41:13
Speaker 1: address the issues brought up by the state, explaining them away.
41:18
Speaker 1: That's what I see happening. But he's coming across I
41:21
Speaker 1: believe fairly will. But is it enough to explain away
41:26
Speaker 1: the fact that it is not feasible for him to
41:29
Speaker 1: be at the scene of the murders minutes minutes, three
41:34
Speaker 1: or four minutes before the murders. Then he miraculously leaves
41:39
Speaker 1: and he escapes murder, and then he comes back within
41:44
Speaker 1: the hour and lo and behold he finds the bodies
41:49
Speaker 1: and immediately starts lying. Is it feasible that Maggie's phone
41:56
Speaker 1: was traveling? What was it traveling Sydney? Was it traveling
41:59
Speaker 1: at forty five miles an hour? Was her phone traveling
42:03
Speaker 1: along with him? And then as his car shows it
42:06
Speaker 1: slows down long enough to throw a phone out the window.
42:11
Speaker 1: Can his testimony overcome that well as at a matter
42:15
Speaker 1: of fact, if the jury grows to like him, if
42:19
Speaker 1: the jury grows to believe that he is credible, yes,
42:24
Speaker 1: it can overcome even the facts. In this case, he
42:29
Speaker 1: even addresses a Google search. He does just a few
42:34
Speaker 1: feet away from his wife and son's body. Take a
42:38
Speaker 1: listen to our cut fourteen. There's an indication Alec that
42:43
Speaker 1: at ten twenty two o nine, you opened a group
42:45
Speaker 1: text message from Michael Gunn stating she brought the heat
42:49
Speaker 1: from Miami boys. Were you reading text messages from Michael Gunn? Right?
42:53
Speaker 1: Have to go off with the nine one operator. I
42:55
Speaker 1: heard him ask that question. I can promise you I
42:58
Speaker 1: wasn't reading any text message just at ten forty pm
43:02
Speaker 1: that you did a Google search or Safari browser search
43:06
Speaker 1: for Wales at Adastow while your wife and son are
43:10
Speaker 1: laying dead on the ground. Did you do that? No,
43:13
Speaker 1: Wales is a restaurant and Edistow that we ate at
43:16
Speaker 1: a lot of times. We got to take out from
43:18
Speaker 1: a lot of time, so I'm assuming it was in
43:20
Speaker 1: my search history pulling up the restaurant and obviously was
43:26
Speaker 1: trying to call people or dialing, and I hit that.
43:29
Speaker 1: I wasn't doing any Google searches crime stories with Nancy Grace.
43:46
Speaker 1: There's an indication Alec that at ten twenty two o
43:50
Speaker 1: nine you opened a group of text message from Michael Gunn,
43:53
Speaker 1: stating she brought the heat from Miami boys. Were you
43:58
Speaker 1: reading text messages from Michael Gunns? I have to go
44:00
Speaker 1: off with the nive one one operator. I heard him
44:02
Speaker 1: ask that question. I can promise you I wasn't reading
44:05
Speaker 1: any text messages. At ten forty pm you did a
44:09
Speaker 1: Google search or Safari browser search for Wales at Edistoe
44:15
Speaker 1: while your wife and son are laying dead on the ground.
44:17
Speaker 1: Did you do that? No, Wales is a restaurant at
44:21
Speaker 1: Edistode that we ate at a lot of times. We
44:24
Speaker 1: got take out from a lot of times. So I'm
44:26
Speaker 1: assuming it was in my search history pulling up to
44:29
Speaker 1: restaurant and obviously was trying to call people or dialing,
44:33
Speaker 1: and I hid that I wasn't doing any Google searches.
44:38
Speaker 1: Is that the way a phone works when you're trying
44:41
Speaker 1: to make a phone call, you hit the phone icon
44:46
Speaker 1: and you start dialing. That was an actual Google search.
44:52
Speaker 1: It wasn't dialing Wellie's restaurant. It was an actual Google search.
44:58
Speaker 1: Does that make sense to you, Sydney, because it doesn't
45:00
Speaker 1: make sense. Okay, it makes sense to you that he
45:03
Speaker 1: did a Google search, but he was really using the phone. No, okay, no,
45:06
Speaker 1: it does not make sense. Okay, there's more to it.
45:09
Speaker 1: But first I'm hearing in my ear doctor Michelle Dupree,
45:13
Speaker 1: jump in, doctor. It does not make sense, Nancy, There's
45:16
Speaker 1: no way. I mean, how can you be, you know,
45:18
Speaker 1: within twenty minutes or whatever and standing beside your wife
45:21
Speaker 1: and your son's dead bodies and doing a Google search
45:25
Speaker 1: for anything, much less your favorite restaurant in Edisto. You know,
45:29
Speaker 1: we also go ahead. I'm not sure who that is,
45:34
Speaker 1: but I think it's doctor Angie, go ahead, doctor, you know, Nancy.
45:39
Speaker 1: Another thing that we have to think about. Two. If
45:41
Speaker 1: he was under the influence of drugs that night, Nancy,
45:45
Speaker 1: he's not going to remember, Okay, we had dinner, we
45:48
Speaker 1: sat down, we had dinner, then I laid down and
45:50
Speaker 1: watched TV. Nancy. Those aren't things that someone under the
45:53
Speaker 1: influence of drugs does. And then all of a sudden,
45:57
Speaker 1: the drugs are going to influence him, and, as we've said,
46:00
Speaker 1: have him developed this paranoia about the police. So I
46:04
Speaker 1: don't believe that that's congruent either. Another thing that he
46:08
Speaker 1: said that was completely incongruent. If he was so concerned
46:12
Speaker 1: about the social media attacks that his son was apparently receiving,
46:18
Speaker 1: and then he just said, well, we just didn't do
46:19
Speaker 1: anything about it. We just let that go. Nancy, that
46:23
Speaker 1: is an incongruent statement to say that the threats were
46:27
Speaker 1: so heinous and then but we just let that go.
46:30
Speaker 1: We call that an incongruent statement, Nancy, And I certainly
46:33
Speaker 1: hope the jury picked up on that. Nancy. Arian Bland
46:36
Speaker 1: do you want to end go ahead. Yes. First of all,
46:39
Speaker 1: he did send a text message to Cbrow before he
46:43
Speaker 1: called Buster at late ten thirty eight, saying, can you
46:47
Speaker 1: address the sunflower trees tomorrow? If somebody just killed your
46:51
Speaker 1: wife and your son and you only have one living
46:54
Speaker 1: child left, that would be my first phone call to say, son,
47:00
Speaker 1: get to security, go to the nearest police department. I
47:04
Speaker 1: don't know what has happened, but your mother and your
47:07
Speaker 1: son were killed. Why would he let Buster be forty
47:11
Speaker 1: minutes from a phone call, then get the phone call
47:14
Speaker 1: and permit Buster to drive with his girlfriend back to Mazzelle.
47:20
Speaker 1: If killers are in the area, you would tell your child,
47:23
Speaker 1: your only living child, please go to the police department. Yeah,
47:27
Speaker 1: and right now now I want you to hear more
47:30
Speaker 1: in our cut four. Take a listen to this. On
47:35
Speaker 1: June seventh, I wasn't thinking clearly. I don't think I
47:41
Speaker 1: was capable of reason, and I lowed about being down there.
47:52
Speaker 1: And I'm so sorry that I did. I'm sorry to
47:59
Speaker 1: my son Uster, I'm sorry to Grandma and Papa Tea.
48:12
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to both of our families. Most of all,
48:24
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to Max and Pop Ball. I would never
48:31
Speaker 1: intentionally do anything to hurt either one of them. Ever,
48:45
Speaker 1: as he's shaking his head, yes, intentionally. That's something Chris
48:49
Speaker 1: mcdone I brought up earlier. I would never intentionally do
48:53
Speaker 1: anything to hurt either of them ever. But if he's
48:56
Speaker 1: high out of his mind on opioids in his mind,
49:00
Speaker 1: does that mean it wasn't intentional? But what caught my
49:03
Speaker 1: attention there is he says, on the night of the murders,
49:06
Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking clearly. I don't think I was capable
49:11
Speaker 1: of reason. Yet he could think clearly enough to lie
49:16
Speaker 1: to save his own skin to police, and now he
49:21
Speaker 1: wants a jury to believe the story he's telling today.
49:25
Speaker 1: I mean, can they ignore the hard facts, the concrete,
49:30
Speaker 1: the submit facts of GPS A phone data up to you,
49:36
Speaker 1: doctor Angie, He says, I wasn't thinking clearly. Don't think
49:41
Speaker 1: I was capable of reason. Yet he was capable of
49:45
Speaker 1: lying about his own whereabouts, And this is within one
49:50
Speaker 1: hour of discovering the bodies and Nancy. He was also
49:52
Speaker 1: capable about making some decisions. He decided he was going
49:57
Speaker 1: to go visit his mother. Why would you go physit
50:00
Speaker 1: your mother if you were uncapable of making decisions that night.
50:03
Speaker 1: Why would you get in a car and drive. Why
50:05
Speaker 1: wouldn't you just stay on the couch and watch TV
50:08
Speaker 1: and rest and let and let everything go the way
50:12
Speaker 1: it was going that night. I think that's another one
50:14
Speaker 1: of his lies. And you know what, Nancy, I believe
50:17
Speaker 1: that the reason this man turns to lies is because
50:20
Speaker 1: that's the first thing that his brain does. He is
50:24
Speaker 1: a liar. And we've got to remember, if you're a liar,
50:28
Speaker 1: you're a liar. Okay. You have to sort of believe
50:32
Speaker 1: that everything that they say is a lie, Nancy. They
50:35
Speaker 1: don't come up with the truth. That's why it is
50:38
Speaker 1: so easy for him to lie. To Aery Bland, high
50:40
Speaker 1: profile lawyer in the area, and to Chris mcdonnas of
50:45
Speaker 1: the interview room. I want you to take a listen
50:47
Speaker 1: to our cut ten and this is very significant, our
50:51
Speaker 1: cut tien. Listen. You're suburban and perhaps some of this
50:54
Speaker 1: own star GPS data that indicates it. At some point
50:58
Speaker 1: in time in your mother's driveway, you for about a minute.
51:01
Speaker 1: Do you recall seeing that data? What were you doing
51:06
Speaker 1: when you stopped? I was getting my phone that done.
51:12
Speaker 1: My phone had gotten there's a console in the middle
51:15
Speaker 1: of my car, and my phone had gotten down in
51:18
Speaker 1: the console between the console and the seat where you
51:21
Speaker 1: couldn't get to it. Okay, were you during that minute
51:29
Speaker 1: or however long it was, were you disposing of murder
51:32
Speaker 1: weapons outt No? Were you disposing of bloody clothes? No? So,
51:39
Speaker 1: Eric Bland, if he says he's not the killer, that
51:43
Speaker 1: would make sense. He was not disposing of the weapons.
51:45
Speaker 1: He didn't have the murder weapons. But what about the clothes.
51:49
Speaker 1: Whatever did happen to those clothes? Well, you know, you're
51:54
Speaker 1: getting a lot of different stories. Supposedly Buster helped them
51:56
Speaker 1: clean out the house. He never went back there. That's
51:59
Speaker 1: been very convenient, even though he told Buster while he
52:03
Speaker 1: was in jail, Hey go back there and hunt. There's
52:06
Speaker 1: tons of corn. Here's the issue, Nancy, he is not
52:10
Speaker 1: telling the truth. I can't remember if I dropped my
52:15
Speaker 1: phone in my car. How's he going to remember it
52:19
Speaker 1: when he's high on opioids. You can't have it both ways.
52:22
Speaker 1: As one of your guests said, and I did an
52:24
Speaker 1: experiment the other day. I got one of those mini bottles,
52:28
Speaker 1: mini bottles of water, and I threw it out the window.
52:31
Speaker 1: It's the same weight as my phone and I slowed
52:35
Speaker 1: to forty miles an hour and I threw it out
52:37
Speaker 1: my passenger window and guess what, it went almost thirty
52:42
Speaker 1: yards into the woods. Just thinking through everything that he's saying,
52:47
Speaker 1: let me go back to doctor Angela Arnold, renounced psychiatrist
52:51
Speaker 1: out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. They've closed the clothing. That
52:58
Speaker 1: shirt is it? The housekeeper can never find the shirt.
53:03
Speaker 1: He can't tell us where the shirt is, and they
53:06
Speaker 1: carefully did not address that in his direct examination. You know, Nancy,
53:11
Speaker 1: maybe they don't want people to think about that, because
53:15
Speaker 1: why would you why would you not address something They
53:18
Speaker 1: want to gloss over it. I certainly hope that it
53:21
Speaker 1: is going to be I hope it is going to
53:23
Speaker 1: be examined because that seems like a very huge piece
53:26
Speaker 1: to this puzzle. And again, he can remember something so beautifully,
53:32
Speaker 1: and there are other things that he just has no
53:33
Speaker 1: recollection of which, Nancy, it just tends to help us
53:39
Speaker 1: believe that he is truly a liar. Well, another thing
53:42
Speaker 1: that he addressed. Remember when we heard all of the evidence,
53:46
Speaker 1: and this is for you, doctor Dupree, all of that
53:49
Speaker 1: technical evidence about when he gets to the saying there's
53:53
Speaker 1: opening and closing, and opening and closing, opening and closing
53:56
Speaker 1: his door. Remember all that evidence that ain't from his car.
54:02
Speaker 1: We had no idea your car recording when you opened
54:04
Speaker 1: the door, let the windows up and down, or put
54:07
Speaker 1: it in part, but it exists. I want you to
54:09
Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut eleven what he says
54:13
Speaker 1: he did when he found the bodies? What'd you see
54:17
Speaker 1: so much? Y'all? See your pictures up so bad? Can
54:20
Speaker 1: hand some water? Did you see them on the ground
54:25
Speaker 1: when you're pulling up in your suburban? I did? I
54:33
Speaker 1: think I jumped out of my car. I exactly sure
54:40
Speaker 1: what I did, But no, I got out of my car. No,
54:45
Speaker 1: I ran back to my car. Call down one one.
54:52
Speaker 1: That was I called out one one. I was on
54:56
Speaker 1: the phone with nine one one. I was trying to
54:59
Speaker 1: tend the ball. Let's trying to tend to Maggie. Were
55:03
Speaker 1: you going to Paul and Maggie while you were on
55:07
Speaker 1: the phone with the nine one one operators? Yes, okay?
55:13
Speaker 1: Does that explain all the opening and the closing of
55:17
Speaker 1: the doors you see? At some point? Chris McDonald, he
55:21
Speaker 1: finally says, well, I don't know what I was doing.
55:24
Speaker 1: Is that how they're going to explain that, you know, Nancy,
55:27
Speaker 1: I mean if this could backfire if the prosecution has
55:33
Speaker 1: their questions you know, dialed in here, and we may
55:36
Speaker 1: be calling this gone with the win WI n if
55:40
Speaker 1: it works correctly, because everything that he says, if we
55:45
Speaker 1: listen carefully, is I think. But however, when it's convenient
55:50
Speaker 1: to him, then he knows I. He gives this idea
55:54
Speaker 1: of I felt that night I knew I was a suspect,
56:00
Speaker 1: and that at that point he then figured he would
56:03
Speaker 1: start his own parallel investigation to help out, you know,
56:07
Speaker 1: by giving directions in relationship to the GPS and all
56:11
Speaker 1: the information that we're hearing about. So when we see
56:14
Speaker 1: him in these types of moments, in my opinion, you know,
56:19
Speaker 1: they're very carefully crafted in how he's delivering it, and
56:23
Speaker 1: they just seem disingenuous. You know, Eric Boy, as you
56:27
Speaker 1: on this, you go first, doctor Michelle. Okay, Well, so
56:32
Speaker 1: of course he was not disposing of the clothes during
56:35
Speaker 1: that one minute. That was a carefully crafted question. He
56:39
Speaker 1: disposed of the clothes and the weapons when he drove
56:41
Speaker 1: around to Almeda into the back of the house and
56:44
Speaker 1: was near that shed so again, I think this is
56:47
Speaker 1: working two ways. Alex is very carefully crafting his answers,
56:51
Speaker 1: but the defense attorney then was also very carefully crafting
56:55
Speaker 1: the questions so that Alex could answer them in the
56:59
Speaker 1: pre planned Eric, I don't know how exactly to verbalize this,
57:03
Speaker 1: and I'm afraid I may be projecting about how I
57:07
Speaker 1: reacted when my fiancee was murdered just before our wedding,
57:11
Speaker 1: But I can't compare this to a colleague of mine.
57:14
Speaker 1: I think you all know Mark Klass's daughter Polly was
57:17
Speaker 1: kidnapped from her own home, sex assaulted, had murdered. Cops came,
57:21
Speaker 1: of course, to him immediately, and he knows his daughter
57:25
Speaker 1: is gone. He says, here, take my fingerprints, search my place,
57:29
Speaker 1: search my office, search my car, do whatever you want.
57:31
Speaker 1: I'll give you my blood, I'll do anything you want
57:34
Speaker 1: so you can find who took my daughter. And I
57:37
Speaker 1: just find it very suspicious that at a time like this,
57:43
Speaker 1: and Eric, I have investigated, tried, covered, pled literally thousands
57:52
Speaker 1: of cases, and when parents act a certain way when
57:57
Speaker 1: they're protecting themselves, they are guilty of something. I don't
58:02
Speaker 1: know what, but something is wrong. He should have been
58:05
Speaker 1: saying listen here, this is what happened. Maybe it looks bad.
58:09
Speaker 1: I don't care, but somebody killed my wife. Somebody killed
58:12
Speaker 1: my son. My boy is dead. Suspect me if you want,
58:17
Speaker 1: but this is what happened. But that's not what he did.
58:20
Speaker 1: I thought he would be out howling in the backyard
58:24
Speaker 1: out of pain, but no, he's lying to save himself. Listen,
58:29
Speaker 1: he got lawyered up. Those five lawyers came from his
58:33
Speaker 1: law firm. Yes, they wanted to be there to provide
58:37
Speaker 1: emotional support, but he was lawyered up. He told you
58:40
Speaker 1: from the start that he knew he was a suspect.
58:44
Speaker 1: Every father, every husband knows they're a first suspect. And
58:48
Speaker 1: you want to eliminate yourself, so you say exactly what
58:52
Speaker 1: mister Claude said. Here, free reign, search do whatever. I've
58:57
Speaker 1: been to Missille Nancy. I've been down every road in
59:00
Speaker 1: the swamp area. It's eighteen hundred acres, half of which
59:04
Speaker 1: are swamps. He could have hid his stuff and then
59:08
Speaker 1: later gone back and got it. You'll see in the
59:11
Speaker 1: Netflix series the guns were removed by John Marvin from
59:16
Speaker 1: the property. These are country people who know where to
59:20
Speaker 1: hide things. He was not open He was not cooperative
59:25
Speaker 1: in my eyes that a father and a husband would
59:28
Speaker 1: be if their child and their wife were murdered. Nobody
59:32
Speaker 1: has more experience than Nancy Grace, your sixth sense telling
59:38
Speaker 1: you something's wrong here. Nancy, you know another thing. If
59:41
Speaker 1: my son was lying there dead and my other son
59:44
Speaker 1: was somewhere else, the first thing I would say is
59:47
Speaker 1: you got to find my boy Buster. You gotta get
59:50
Speaker 1: him somewhere safe. That's the number one thing I gotta
59:53
Speaker 1: do right now. We never heard one word about protecting Buster.
59:59
Speaker 1: And you've got ask yourself. Why guys are going back
1:00:03
Speaker 1: in the courtroom. Guys that the jury it's about to
1:00:05
Speaker 1: come back in. We're going straight back in. Thank you everybody.
1:00:08
Speaker 1: We're going back in the courtroom. Stay with us.