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Resource Report - 35 Legal Immigration Services of Olympia (LISO) · Resource Report

0:18
Hello and welcome to Resource Report, where we
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share with you important information about local
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nonprofits and resource organizations that support
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the community we share, produced by Pathways
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to Agency. I am your host, Michaela. Today's
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guests are Lynne Glore and Stephanie Powell of
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LISO, Legal Immigration Services of Olympia,
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an organization that provides legal support to
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detainees. Lynne is the Secretary of the Board
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of Directors, and Stephanie is the Executive
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Director and Attorney. Thanks so much for coming
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on board here. Thanks for having us. My name
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is Lynne Glore, as Michaela just said, and I'm
1:00
the secretary of the board of directors of LISO,
1:04
L -I -S -O. And I came to this, I've got some
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background in nonprofits and was a foundation
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director many years ago. And when I was invited
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to join the board, I was happy to not hesitate
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for a moment. During the first Trump years, I
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was a part of an organization called Strengthening
1:32
Sanctuary, and our focus was on supporting immigrants
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in the light of what was going on during those
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years. This seemed like a perfect transition
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to be a part of a startup nonprofit. and we've
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been in existence for almost a year now. We'll
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be celebrating our one -year anniversary in July.
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Congratulations. Thank you. That's an accomplishment.
2:01
And Steffani, could you please introduce yourself
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as well? Yes, thank you, Michaela. So my name
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is Steffani Powell. I've been an immigration
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attorney for over 30 years, but not in the context
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of removal or deportation work, and definitely
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not in the context of detained immigration removal
2:18
work. I met Lynne in Strengthening Sanctuary,
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and when we knew we were going to start this
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organization, and I'll talk about the reason
2:26
we started in a moment, I definitely wanted Lynne
2:29
on the board with her organizational skills and
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fundraising skills and just her personality.
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We knew it would be a great match. So the reason
2:37
the Legal Immigration Services of Olympia came
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into existence was one of my clients in my law
2:43
office, again, I focused 100 % on immigration
2:46
law, family -based immigration law. So working
2:49
at consulates around the world, filing for deferred
2:52
action for childhood arrival for students or
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young adults, and also UVs is for [unknowing] victims of
2:58
crime. One of my UV recipients was out in Lacey
3:03
on a Sunday morning with his wife and daughter
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when he was pulled over unexpectedly and within
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three minutes taken away, leaving his wife and
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daughter traumatized on the side of the road.
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That was a Sunday. They called me. They didn't
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know what to do. And honestly, I didn't know
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what to do either. So I called some folks, met
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for coffee and decided. We could see the writing
3:26
on the wall. We knew what was coming. If they
3:28
were in Lacey arresting people who had valid
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claims and had filed petitions and had attorneys,
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then they're going to start arresting everyone.
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So we quickly organized, and this was our very
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first case. And I remember the first time I walked
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into the detention center saying, it looks like
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this is how my career is going to go from here
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on out, that I will be an immigration attorney
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working in the detained context. You mentioned
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a previous organization with the name Sanctuary
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in it? Strengthening Sanctuary came into being
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under the first Trump administration, and it
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really started with the city council. So the
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city council wanted to pass a... Sanctuary city
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resolution. Right. Thank you. A number of people
4:30
from the community went to those city council
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meetings and stood up and spoke about, again,
4:35
looking at the writing on the wall, listening
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to the rhetoric that the candidate Trump was
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speaking to during his campaign. And we could
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see that our communities were going to be devastated.
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So the good folks of the Olympia City Council
4:51
passed a resolution. But after they passed it,
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one of the council members said, now let's make
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sure this resolution has teeth. And so we looked
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around, and a number of us decided to meet. And
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it grew from six, seven people to... There were
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probably 40 or 50 at one time. Folks who were
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there to work on making sure the resolution had
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teeth. And then once we started looking at what
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that meant, we formed subcommittees. So we had
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folks that were working with school systems to
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make sure that information was not shared with
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the federal government, was not taken from the
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families and therefore shared with the federal
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government. We started working with law enforcement
5:33
to make sure their policies reflected the community
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that they served. For instance, when an individual
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is processed for a charge against them, their
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fingerprints are taken. And on the fingerprint
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card or in the database, it will say what country
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they're from. And that information is immediately
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shared with federal authorities and the Olympia
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Police Department declined to write what country
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the individual was from so that if their information
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is shared with federal authorities, ICE isn't
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looking for people from a certain country who
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were arrested in this jurisdiction and sending
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ICE officers in. So it was protecting their identities
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from ICE officials. We also worked with the jail
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who was passing out cards to individuals that
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informed them of their rights not to speak to
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an ICE officer unless they wanted to speak to
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an ICE officer because a lot of folks who were
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incarcerated thought they had to speak to an
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ICE officer if they appeared on the premises.
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Olympia did an amazing job kind of creating this
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safety net and disentangling law enforcement,
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local law enforcement, with federal immigration
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enforcement. And Strengthening Sanctuary was
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part of that conversation and that process.
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Oh, wow. That sounds like so much was happening
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already that lay the groundwork for how your
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current organization is able to be so flexible.
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That is an incredible amount of community mobilization
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focused on community -specific security needs.
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With that said, could you please share with us
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the mission, vision, and goals for LISO? I'll
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take a stab at the mission. LISO has a very narrowly
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focused mission, and that is to represent free
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of charge detained individuals at the detention
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center in Tacoma. We have learned, though, that
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sometimes we're representing people that get
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moved from Tacoma to other detention centers
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around the country, and that's another story that we can
7:32
talk about. So, the mission's very narrow, and the goal is to have enough attorneys to represent
7:40
folks when we get the call. May I just kind of
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piggyback on that a little bit? Strengthening
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Sanctuary also had the Know Your Rights Committee.
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We were conducting Know Your Rights seminars
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for immigrants and sometimes supporters of immigrants
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so that folks could avoid being detained. When
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we were doing that at that time, Folks actually
8:00
had rights, and there were removal priorities,
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right? At the time when we first started, it
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made sense to do these Know Your Rights, don't
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speak, don't answer any questions, don't open
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the door unless there's a warrant, which is still
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in place. Don't open the door unless there's
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a warrant with your name on it and signed by
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a judicial official. But we were trying to keep
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people out of detention. Under the second administration,
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we've realized it is going to be impossible to
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keep people out of detention. We have now two
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attorneys, myself and Nina Esquivel. We just
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hired a bilingual caseworker part -time. We have
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an incredible executive assistant who really
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keeps the wheels on the bus. And we all say she's
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our boss. We work for her. She's amazing. Her
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name is Karen Lascarro. We have another volunteer
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attorney. Niel Lawrence, who has over 30 years
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of experience working in federal court. And so
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we need that experience because we're finding
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that the detainees or community members that
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are detained, it's getting more and more difficult
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to get them released from detentions because
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of the new policies, the memorandums that have
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come down where judges are using mandatory detention
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and refusing bond for individuals that normally
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would have been bonded out, we're having to go
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to the federal court to try to get the
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federal courts to force the immigration judges
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to release individuals or to give them an opportunity
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for bond hearings. So that Know Your Rights that
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we were doing with Strengthening Sanctuary
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was kind of setting the groundwork for the existence
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of LISO in the second administration of Trump.
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It sounds like it got way more complicated with
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federal involvement that you didn't expect, so
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to speak, or maybe you did expect it and it was
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coming down the line, but now you're having to
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work not just with that level of courts, but
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further up on those level of courts. And what
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would you say is the end vision for LISO for
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not just potentially representation, but is there
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a horizon line that you guys are working towards?
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That's a great question. We are so involved with
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our daily representation of cases and intakes.
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We've had 17 intakes since last week because
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there was a raid in Shelton. It involved a van
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full of women, mothers, some of them going to
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work. There ICE pulled over the van and arrested
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all the individuals in the van, leaving some
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children with neighbors, right? And their mother
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didn't come home to pick them up after work.
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So we have been so busy. But when I think about-
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And I feel like I should first vet this goal
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with Lynne, but the goal for LISO is we want to be
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out of existence because we're not needed anymore.
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And that is a very long -term goal, and I'll
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talk a little bit about that later, because it's
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one of the largest detention centers, at any
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time there's about 1 ,500 people that are incarcerated
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there. Hearings are just going on all the time,
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and there's not enough judges or attorneys, but
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not enough judges, so they're utilizing judges
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from other jurisdictions. The goal is to expand
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the legal team so that we can stand with our
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community members. It is very, very difficult
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to go through the system without an attorney,
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and only 14 % across the country of detained
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individuals have attorneys. And if you are represented,
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you're twice as likely to apply for and receive
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a benefit. So, I'd like to get that number up in
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our own jurisdiction that we have more than 14%,
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the national average of folks that are represented.
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We just entered into an agreement with Seattle
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U Law School to host externships so that law
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students will be working with us. And my hope
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is for them that when they graduate, they decide
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they want to be immigration attorneys working
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in the detention center, right? So kind of growing
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the base of immigration. attorneys as a goal
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and then someday close down these doggone detention
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centers right? I have ideas, we have dreams, we
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want to work with the Rotary clubs across the
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country. If they can eradicate polio they can
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close down the detention centers so that's we've
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started a conversation with a Rotary club out
12:21
of Lakewood and I know this seems kind of pie
12:24
in the sky, but you know, I believe in it. I think
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we can close these down and we can have alternatives
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to detention that don't require people being
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ripped out of their communities, away from their
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children, away from their employers, away from
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their pets and their gardens and their lives
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and for.. for no reason other than civil violations
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of immigration laws. So that is the goal, to
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close us down by closing them down eventually.
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You are listening to the Resource Report on LISO,
12:57
the Legal Immigration Services of Olympia, with
13:00
Lynne Glore and Steffani Powell on KAOS Radio
13:03
89 .3 FM. We will be back with you after a quick
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break. Todos somos dueños de nuestra cooperativa
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habilidades y orígenes. OlimpiaFood .com This
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is KAOS, K -A -O -S, Olympia, a public service
14:12
of the Evergreen State College. Let's get back
14:24
to the interview with Lynne Glore and Steffani
14:26
Powell on LISO, the Legal Immigration Services
14:29
of Olympia. Earlier, you mentioned a couple different
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statistics like the 14%. correct me if I'm wrong,
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of detainees don't have representation. And then
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there's so many people in the detention centers
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at any given time. Please talk about some of
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the statistics that you have posted on your homepage
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website, because there is quite a few examples.
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Could you speak to those a little bit? Nationwide,
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there's about 14 % of detained individuals that
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have representation. And as I said, if you have
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representation, you're twice as likely to request
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a benefit and receive a benefit. A lot of our
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clients are from Mexico. And just the statistics
15:07
on that, I think 78 % of folks detained are from
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Mexico, and they have one of the lowest representation
15:14
rates of only 21%. If you look at China, it's
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a very low rate of detention, but a very high
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rate of representation. So those kind of trends
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are interesting. We're watching some trends to
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try to figure out what's going on. And so why
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are only 14 % of folks represented? Well, you're
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detained. And how do you find an attorney? Right?
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It's very, very difficult when you're in the
15:41
detention center to find an attorney. We only
15:44
are aware of people because their family members
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are calling, looking around. There's a group
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called Agua, which is an accompaniment group.
15:52
They're an amazing group of volunteers that go
15:54
to the detention center to attend hearings, to
15:56
talk to families in the waiting room. And oftentimes
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they are the ones notifying us, hey, there's
16:03
this case. Can you all take it? Right? So. It's
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not the individual sitting back in the detention
16:10
area that is contacting us. Oftentimes it's their
16:13
families or someone from Agua. If a detained
16:16
individual doesn't have a family member who's
16:18
advocating on their behalf, it's very difficult
16:20
for them to find an attorney, right? And there's
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not enough attorneys doing immigration work,
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and there sure isn't enough of us doing detained
16:29
work. There's reasons for that. There's so much
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to say about this. Just know that if you are
16:35
doing detain work, that is all you can do. The
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hearings are very fast -paced. The filings are
16:42
very fast -paced. You will go to the detention
16:44
center and you might have to wait four or five
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hours to see your client because there are only
16:48
just a few client consultation rooms. And remember,
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there's about 1 ,500 people there on any given
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day. You can't be doing anything else but
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detained work. So it's hard for folks that are
16:59
private immigration attorneys, it's hard to make
17:01
a living, right? So that's why we need more nonprofit
17:05
organizations doing this work, more attorneys
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willing to do it pro bono, because otherwise
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it's very, very difficult to run a practice.
17:12
So the other thing I wanted to say, so there's
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about 1 ,500 people detained at the detention
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center in Tacoma on any given day. And across
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the country, there's about 73 ,000 people detained
17:25
on any given day. When Trump first came into
17:28
his second administration, there were about 40
17:31
,000 people detained on any given day. By the
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end of 2026 this year, he hopes to have 100 ,000
17:38
people detained on any given day, right? So 100
17:43
,000 people detained on any given day. And that's
17:47
just going to... increase overcrowding, increase
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deaths. There's been, since the beginning of
17:55
2025, 47 people have died in detention, 30 in
18:00
2025, 17 already this year. The folks who have
18:05
died have died because of the lack of medical
18:08
care. There have been suicides, and there is
18:12
even at least one reported homicide. The coroner
18:16
ruled it a homicide. ICE said, no, it was a
18:19
suicide. What they're doing is they're fast -tracking
18:22
expansion of detention so they can meet this
18:25
arbitrary goal of 100 ,000 people on any given
18:29
day across the country being detained. So they're
18:31
turning warehouses into large detention centers
18:35
that they hope to have thousands of people detained
18:38
in these warehouses. We saw what happened in
18:41
Florida with Alcatraz. We saw what happened in
18:44
Texas with the tent cities, these very quickly
18:47
fabricated detention centers that are not
18:49
fit for human residents by any means. So as they
18:53
ramp up the infrastructure, they're also ramping
18:56
up the enforcement actions across the country.
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Prior to Trump, we had priorities for enforcement.
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So certain folks with criminal records, right,
19:04
with serious criminal records, new arrivals,
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folks with old removal orders. There were priorities.
19:12
And if you didn't fit within those priorities,
19:14
you weren't detained. Well, one of the first
19:16
things that Trump did in his administrations
19:19
is he got rid of the priorities and he said,
19:21
everyone's a priority. So that has created such
19:24
chaos. You have folks with pending applications,
19:27
with USCIS who are being detained. You have long
19:31
-term residents. Parents of U .S. citizens, spouses
19:34
of U .S. citizens who have applications pending
19:37
with USCIS that are being detained, they're just
19:41
going after everyone and anyone. We have seen
19:44
a number of our clients who were arrested based
19:46
on the store they walked out of, Lowe's or Home
19:50
Depot. The store they walked out of, the color
19:52
of their skin, and maybe if the ICE officer heard,
19:54
an accent. And that was enough for them to detain
19:58
them. That just shows the expanse of, I guess
20:01
you could say, at this point now, the lack of
20:04
discretion. As you said, it's an arbitrary number
20:07
that when you try to force it into real life,
20:10
we've seen gridlock, and not just gridlock in
20:14
terms of capacity, but gridlock in terms of organizational
20:17
design, where there were priorities and there
20:21
were set...not channels you could say to go through,
20:24
but purposes that were direct, and now there
20:26
seems to be a lack of purpose behind all of this.
20:30
I wanted to speak to the specific examples on
20:33
your website here that are listed. Only 37 %
20:38
of all immigrants secured legal representation
20:40
in the removal cases nationally. Could you speak
20:43
to that? So, you know, there are two types of
20:47
removal cases, detained removal, and then you
20:50
have non -detained dockets, so people who have
20:53
received a notice to appear in immigration court.
20:55
That statistic, I believe, reflects the percentage
21:00
of folks who are represented in the non -detained
21:03
docket. It's still very, very low. When I speak
21:06
to the alternative to detention programs, 83
21:09
% of individuals who were placed in alternatives
21:14
to detention would show up to their removal hearings.
21:18
97 % would show up if they were represented by
21:23
an attorney. So if you want an efficient removal
21:27
system, then an alternative to detention program
21:30
is where we want to go. This is not about efficient
21:49
removal. This is not about anything other than,
21:53
in my opinion, two very large corporations making
21:57
over $5 billion in 2025 alone to house individuals,
22:02
the CoreCivic Group and the GEO Group. These
22:05
are the two private prison systems that contract
22:09
with ICE. This is what's going on. I think you
22:12
can always follow the money. They say that, right?
22:14
And if you look at two corporations making over
22:16
$5 billion off of terrorizing communities and
22:22
housing folks in these ridiculous and oftentimes
22:25
very, very dangerous detention centers. That's
22:29
what we need to avoid and pull back from. So
22:31
if you had an alternative to detention program
22:33
that involves social workers, it involves access
22:37
to services for U .S. citizen children if a parent
22:41
is in a removal proceeding. It involves folks
22:44
translating very complicated notices that come
22:47
from the court. It involves transportation to
22:50
your hearings. It involves trying to pair individual
22:55
removal proceedings with an immigration attorney.
22:58
Those are very successful. Those cost $10 a day
23:01
per person. When you have someone detained, that
23:03
costs $150 to $200 per person. That's a huge
23:07
discrepancy. Thank you. Let's see. Are those
23:11
the corporations involved in the Tacoma ICE Detention
23:14
Center? Can you talk about the Northwest ICE
23:16
Processing Center in Tacoma? Yes. The Northwest
23:19
ICE Processing Center in Tacoma came into existence
23:22
in 2004, and it is a GEO group. detention center.
23:28
So the corporation GEO contracts with ICE to
23:31
run that center. Its capacity, I think, is 1
23:34
,562 beds, and they're at capacity and have been
23:39
for a while. The state of Washington has attempted,
23:43
I believe, 10 times, I believe, since 2023 to
23:47
inspect the detention center because they've
23:50
received over 3 ,500 complaints from detainees
23:53
about the conditions, and they have been refused
23:57
Each time, the state continues to try. And that's
24:00
happening across the country as well. You're
24:02
having less internal inspection and refusal of
24:05
external inspection of these sites. So even if
24:09
we were to try to reach those practically ridiculous
24:12
levels of, what was it, 100 ,000 a day, there
24:15
would not even be room to process them with everyone
24:18
already there. And even during that processing,
24:20
there's been requests to have that being evaluated,
24:23
so that would just be sending them into a black
24:25
box- Yes. -essentially, where there isn't the ability
24:28
to check on the process to even confirm that
24:31
that process is being completed if that were
24:33
to be implemented. Oversight in any prison system
24:36
is important. Again, right about half the people
24:40
detained have absolutely no criminal record whatsoever.
24:43
So the folks that are detained are being lost.
24:46
Oftentimes it's hard to find them. We have an
24:48
ICE locator system that we can go on if we have
24:51
their A numbers, their alien numbers, which are
24:53
numbers that are assigned to each individual
24:55
detained. and you can try to track where they
24:58
are. That's very difficult. Right now we have
25:00
a woman who we believe is being deported today,
25:04
but we can't confirm that she was deported. They
25:06
moved her from Tacoma to Arizona, and at this
25:10
point her family just wants her deported, but
25:12
we can't even confirm where she is right now,
25:14
right? And the reason that's so important for
25:16
the family is when she arrives in Guatemala,
25:19
a family member has to travel 12 hours to meet
25:23
her at an airport. They don't know when to start
25:26
traveling, right? They don't know where she is.
25:28
People disappear in this system. It's really
25:31
hard to track. You're sort of segueing into the
25:35
next envelope to open, which is, you mentioned
25:38
that you use these A numbers that are assigned
25:40
when somebody is going into the prison system.
25:42
And then you also rely on organizations like
25:45
Agua to be there and then send messages back
25:49
to you. Are those the main ways that you work
25:52
with the clients that are already held at a detention
25:54
center besides finding the A number and besides
25:57
having communications with those types of groups
26:00
like Agua? Are those the main ways that you start
26:03
the process from learning someone's in detention
26:05
to getting them representation? Yes. Yeah. So
26:09
through Agua, through family members, once we
26:11
have that information, then we go to the detention
26:14
center, meet with the individual, and gather
26:17
as much information that we can about their case
26:19
so we can create a pathway forward. And sometimes
26:22
there is no pathway forward. If someone has an
26:24
old deportation order from 20 years ago and they
26:28
reentered and then later married a citizen and
26:31
had children and created a life here, if they
26:34
get picked up, it's very likely that old deportation
26:38
order order is going to be reinstated and they'll
26:40
be removed without an opportunity to see a judge.
26:42
So sometimes it is trying to help an individual
26:45
get out of detention as quickly as possible even
26:47
if that means get out means getting sent back
26:49
to their home country but that's what the individual
26:51
has said they wanted, rightY yeah it's each case
26:54
is their own. Sometimes they just know that they
26:56
have something set up and ready to go sometimes,
26:58
because the alternative is being lost in the
27:01
system where maybe you won't be able to be found
27:03
by anyone. Right, Right, Right. I think an important
27:27
part of all of this is obviously we want to provide
27:30
an alternative to detention for people. Being
27:33
out of detention means physically at home. That's
27:36
right, yeah. And so it's about keeping people
27:38
in their homes, even if there's this process
27:41
happening, even if there's appeals that they
27:43
have to do. Could you talk a bit about those
27:46
alternatives to actual detention, the pathways
27:49
that are available for people to not be detained?
27:52
So there's a very successful program in Chicago,
27:55
a test program. Again, very, very successful.
27:59
People showed up to their hearings. They were
28:00
assigned social workers, and the social workers
28:03
were then helping them assess social services
28:07
for their families where necessary. That program
28:10
can be replicated across the country, and it
28:13
would be a very successful program. So let's
28:15
talk about this gentleman. If he had been identified
28:18
as someone who was in the country without proper
28:20
permission, they could have been issued an NTA,
28:23
a notice to appear for an immigration court,
28:25
assigned to a particular community service organization.
28:28
organization to provide this kind of community
28:30
-based alternative to detention service. And
28:34
sometimes it involves ankle monitors, which I
28:37
really despise. All of the folks who have been
28:40
released from detention through our efforts,
28:42
all but one, have ankle monitors. So they can't
28:45
leave the jurisdiction of the state. This is
28:47
how they know if they're going to show up for
28:49
their hearings, that type of thing. I really
28:51
despise that, but all of them have said they'd rather
28:53
have an ankle monitor than be sitting at the
28:55
detention center, so. You would have a higher rate
28:59
of compliance with the deportation hearing notices.
29:03
They would have social workers working with the
29:06
family in the event the individual was removed
29:09
from the United States. They would make sure
29:11
that the children had U .S. citizen passports
29:13
so that they could visit their family member
29:15
if deported. It's a much more humane system if
29:19
you're working with service organizations, partnering
29:21
with service organizations within this deportation
29:24
context. So it is a viable alternative. Who doesn't
29:28
win in this? GEO and CoreCivic, right? These
29:32
are the people who don't win in this situation.
29:35
The Trump administration doesn't win in this
29:38
situation because more people will be represented
29:40
by immigration attorneys and will therefore avoid
29:44
deportation. When you get an NTA, How does it
29:57
come to you? Does it come to the mail? Do you
29:59
get a phone call? Do you get an email? Does someone
30:01
show up at your work? How does someone know that
30:03
they've gotten an NTA? There's various ways.
30:05
So if an individual is detained, they'll receive
30:09
an NTA while they're in detention. Right, it'll say
30:11
their reasons for being in removal proceedings.
30:15
If an individual applies for an immigration benefit
30:17
with USCIS and that benefit is denied, there
30:21
is a growing movement for those denial notices
30:25
to come with notices to appear for immigration
30:28
court, either through the mail. And in the last
30:30
few years, we have online systems where you can
30:33
file certain things online. An immigrant community
30:35
member could open an immigration account and
30:38
see their notices on the account, so it might
30:40
come that way through the mail. It should come
30:43
to the attorney of record. If the individual
30:45
is represented with USCIS in their benefit request.
30:49
If it's denied and a notice to appear is issued,
30:52
it should also come to the attorney so that they
30:54
can work with their client. I'm telling you,
30:56
these notices to appear are not easy to understand.
30:59
And so you have to find someone to translate
31:01
it for you, right? And to help you understand
31:03
exactly what this means. And it's a very complicated
31:06
system to navigate alone. Have you encountered
31:09
anybody that's seeking asylum? And have you ever
31:12
encountered people that have been victims of
31:14
human trafficking through this system? So in
31:17
the 10 months that we've been working with LISO,
31:20
I've not encountered human trafficking yet, right?
31:23
I know it's there. We are trying very hard to
31:26
get people out of the detention center before
31:28
their asylum hearings because the judges are
31:30
denying asylum left and right. You don't want
31:33
to have that hearing in detention. You really
31:35
want to try to focus on the bond hearings and
31:37
getting people out so that they can fight their
31:39
removal outside. Yes, we have several asylum
31:42
claims. If we can't get them out on bond, we'll
31:44
have to fight the asylum. Besides the pressure
31:47
to meet the numbers and the pressure for the
31:49
overload of cases, what reasons would you think
31:51
that people are denying for asylum? Everything
31:54
is stacked against the immigrant right now. There's
31:58
no doubt about that. So you have.. I wish I could point to
32:01
the policies, but we're aware that there are
32:03
policies to encourage the Executive Office of
32:08
Immigration Review judges to deny. We know there
32:12
are policies to encourage the Department of Homeland
32:14
Security trial attorneys to object to any approval
32:18
if a judge does approve a case, to object to
32:22
it, to appeal it. I just had a case yesterday,
32:26
and out in the hallway, the trial attorney looked
32:28
at me kind of apologetically and said, you know,
32:31
if he grants this bond, I have to appeal it.
32:35
And I just looked at him and kind of went like,
32:38
you know, we're attorneys here. You should have
32:41
the right to say legally this is a sound case,
32:45
this is a sound decision, but they are under
32:49
a policy to appeal every approval that an immigration
32:54
judge makes. So you have pressure for the judges
32:57
to deny, you have the trial attorneys being told
33:00
to appeal, appeal, appeal, and the individual's
33:02
just stuck. Right? They're just stuck. We need
33:05
a new administration and they need to untangle
33:07
all of these horrific policies. Where did that
33:09
policy come from and what is that policy? Well,
33:11
two policies came to mind this week. We have
33:14
a case that has a pending application with USCIS,
33:17
married to a U .S. citizen. Prior to this administration,
33:21
the trial attorney would ask USCIS to expedite
33:24
that foundational petition, and then the judge
33:27
would have jurisdiction over the case to approve
33:29
the permanent residence. Really, prior to just
33:32
a couple of weeks ago, that was still happening.
33:34
In our hearing last week, the judge said to the
33:37
DHS attorney, okay, you're going to ask for an
33:39
expedite from USCIS, it'll come, and then I'll
33:42
adjudicate the application to a judge status.
33:44
I can usually get that done within 30 days, and
33:46
the trial attorney said no. I'm not going to
33:48
ask for expedite. And the judge spent 15 minutes
33:51
arguing with the trial attorney about why he
33:53
wasn't going to ask for expedite. And the judge
33:56
said, is there a policy? And the trial attorney
33:58
says, I don't know. And the judge said, tell
34:00
me, is there a policy? And the trial attorney
34:02
said, I don't know, went back and forth that
34:05
way. And finally, the judge says, are you going
34:07
to ask for expedite? And the trial attorney says,
34:10
no, I can't. And the judge, to quote him, he
34:14
says, I'm not a potted plant. I deserve the right
34:16
to know if there's a policy. And the DHS attorney
34:19
would not tell him if there's a policy. So that
34:22
means even though this client has an opportunity
34:25
to adjust status before the judge, we can't get
34:29
the foundational petition approved in time. They're
34:32
not going to let him just sit there. They're
34:33
going to end up asking him to leave the country.
34:36
And that's why we want the extern from Seattle
34:39
University to go and sit in the courtroom weekly
34:42
and look for trends, document policies, so that
34:46
we can notify other attorneys what we see happening
34:49
there on a weekly basis. That's one policy example.
34:53
Thank you for answering that. It sounds like
34:56
there's trends that, as you said, would be very
34:58
helpful to know to piece together for the system
35:02
how to expect moving forward. When you're at
35:14
work and you have your client, could you start
35:16
from the beginning? What is the process that
35:18
your client will go through in receiving your
35:21
legal aid from step one? Ideally, there's a family
35:27
member who's contacted us and we have extensive
35:30
intake sheet. We are learning how to vet cases.
35:35
And that's kind of hard to explain, and it's
35:37
heartbreaking in the process. We have an extensive
35:39
intake sheet that I then will look at and ask
35:42
myself or another attorney to go to the detention
35:45
center and do a more extensive consultation with
35:49
that individual, right? And then oftentimes when
35:52
we leave that first consultation, we're still
35:54
not certain if we're going to represent them.
35:56
There are so many factors. How many cases we're
35:58
already representing? When is their next hearing?
36:01
Can we attend that hearing if we're in another
36:03
hearing room with someone else, right? If the
36:05
individual says, I want out, I want voluntary
36:07
departure, then of course we'll ask for voluntary
36:09
departure, which we've had to do several times
36:12
or assisted or facilitated that conversation.
36:15
If a family member's involved, then we will contact
36:18
the family member after we've met with the individual.
36:21
go over the plan. It's individual centered. What
36:24
do they want? So we try to give them the best
36:27
information we can about what possibilities we
36:30
see moving forward. And there was a hearing last
36:33
week. Afterwards, I thought everything was understood.
36:35
We knew what we were doing. And by the time I
36:37
got back to Olympia, his wife called and said
36:40
she'd spoken with him and he had this long list
36:42
of questions. And I realized how important it
36:44
is to take more time to sit and make sure what
36:49
we think think is the pathway forward is actually
36:52
what the individual needs and wants. Because
36:56
sometimes we're fighting really hard to keep
36:58
them in the country when they would prefer to
37:01
leave and try the consular process, for example,
37:04
right? Because they don't want to be detained
37:05
anymore. Depending on the individual, maybe staying
37:09
in detention is absolutely not what they want
37:12
to do and what they need. They might want to
37:15
leave the country and, you know, take the three
37:18
or four year pathway to get back. We often have
37:21
to put our legal minds aside, open our hearts
37:25
and ears and eyes and really listen to that individual
37:28
about what they want. We do not ask about income,
37:32
so if someone is, if someone's unhoused, absolutely.
37:36
If anyone who's detained at the detention center
37:38
who needs assistance, we cannot take all the
37:40
cases. We can only take so many cases at a time
37:44
or we're going to be inundated and not do our
37:48
jobs well, right? And things will fall through
37:50
the cracks. So we have the intake. We had the
37:53
consultation. We come back. We have staff meetings.
37:56
We try to figure out which cases can move forward
38:00
and what we would do. Then we offer those plans
38:02
to the individuals and try to figure out what
38:04
they want to do within that context. I'll give
38:28
you an example of a case now where we had an
38:32
individual that we entered an appearance to represent
38:35
and we had a hearing coming up and they moved
38:39
him. They moved him to Texas first, and it took
38:42
us a while to find him. We found him and we were
38:46
going to hold a bond hearing. And a bond hearing
38:48
means an individual has the right to be released
38:50
from detention if they pay a certain amount of
38:53
money, which could be, you know. $3 ,500. It
38:56
can be $7 ,500. It can be $15 ,000. It can be
38:59
$20 ,000. It's dependent upon the judge. But
39:01
if they can pay that bond and the release from
39:04
detention, they still have to fight the removal
39:06
case, but they can do it from their home, right?
39:08
And it's much easier to meet with your attorneys
39:10
and gather your documents and fight your removal
39:13
from your home setting than attend hearings in
39:16
Seattle, for instance, at the immigration. court
39:18
for the non -detained docket. So this individual
39:22
was moved to Texas. We were going to file a bond
39:25
hearing request there, and they moved him again
39:27
to Georgia to a rural detention center in Folkston,
39:32
Georgia, almost 3 ,000 miles away from home.
39:35
This was the first time we had been faced with
39:37
this, and I remember saying, well, our mission
39:40
is to, you know, represent people detained at
39:43
the Tacoma Detention Center, but we can't just
39:45
let them do this. We can't let them rip them
39:48
away, right? So we followed him. We found him
39:53
in Georgia. We had a bond hearing. The judge
39:56
was very receptive to our arguments. Nina did
40:00
a fabulous job, and he was released from detention.
40:03
But they released him around 10 p .m. at night
40:08
in Georgia without an I .D., without his phone.
40:13
without any money, and only in the clothes that
40:15
he had on when he was arrested in the Pacific
40:17
Northwest on a warm day. And in Georgia that
40:20
night, it was going to be 37 degrees. So you've
40:23
heard a couple of stories of immigrants who've
40:26
been released and who have died, right? They
40:28
never made it back to their home. They died at
40:30
a bus stop in the cold. When we heard that they
40:33
were releasing him, and he had one last call
40:35
to make to his U .S. citizen wife in the Pacific
40:38
Northwest, saying they're releasing me, what
40:40
do I do? He doesn't even know where Georgia is.
40:43
He doesn't understand how far away he is from
40:46
his wife and child. He didn't know which way
40:48
to turn. He didn't know where to walk. He had
40:50
no ID, nothing. We started calling around, trying
40:53
to find someone who could pick him up at the
40:55
detention center, and we ended up calling a hotel
40:59
that was five miles away who agreed to take him
41:02
in for the night without an ID, without any money,
41:05
without anything, if we could get him to the
41:08
hotel. And it was my husband, Scott, who said,
41:12
call the sheriff, see if the sheriff will pick
41:13
him up. So we called the sheriff's office, spoke
41:16
with a wonderful deputy who had actually spent
41:18
time in the Pacific Northwest. His daughter is
41:20
here in nursing school. And he kept me on the
41:23
phone as he drove the five miles out to the detention
41:25
center. They brought the wrong guy out of the
41:28
detention center and started to put him in the
41:30
deputy's car. And I'm like, is this such and
41:33
such? And they said no. And they take that poor
41:35
guy back to the detention center. It's just very
41:38
chaotic and a mess. So the deputy started driving
41:41
around the perimeter and he saw a man sitting
41:43
on a curb and he pulled up to him. And of course,
41:46
the client, we knew, would be terrified that he
41:48
was getting ready to get arrested again for reasons
41:51
unknown to him. Right. So they kept me on the
41:54
phone and he says, I have your attorney on the
41:56
phone. I got on the phone with him and said,
41:58
this is just your ride to the hotel. Right. You're
42:00
OK. You're safe. We're going to.. we'll talk in
42:03
the morning. So they got him to the hotel. It
42:05
took another week for him to get home because
42:07
he didn't have any IDs. ICE had kept his ID and
42:11
his phone and everything that he had on his body
42:13
at the time he was arrested. He came across country
42:16
on a Greyhound bus, but he got back and he's
42:19
now with his wife and his child and fighting
42:22
his deportation in the in the court. And this
42:25
is all from. going from you're about to have
42:27
a hearing to suddenly learning like the day of
42:31
or the week of the day before that you have everything
42:34
planned out that they've been moved to a different
42:37
state location twice literally playing keep away
42:40
right before you're about to go through the due
42:42
process, holding their information and their personal
42:46
effects for what seems to be no reason when they're
42:50
already released. Like, why would you need to contain
42:52
somebody's personal identification? My guess on
42:55
that case, and this is just a guess, is they
42:57
moved him so quickly twice, that they lost track
43:00
of his belongings. That's my guess. But I have
43:03
heard from other attorneys that they're seeing
43:05
that happen more and more where individuals are
43:08
being released without their ID, their phone,
43:09
their money that was on them. So it's a hard
43:12
call to say why that happened. And why they're
43:15
moving, is they want their deportation numbers
43:17
up. They don't want pesky attorneys interfering
43:20
with this. That's what we're seeing. They're
43:22
denying their rights to individuals so that they
43:26
can get their deportation numbers up. What are
43:40
the misconceptions about your clients that the
43:42
general public might have? Because there's a
43:44
lot of language being thrown around, as you said
43:47
earlier, about standards of community safety.
43:49
No one wants to deny safety, but when people
43:52
aren't safe themselves, walking down the street.
43:55
Michaela, that's a great question. The way to
43:59
talk about this sometimes is through telling
44:01
the stories, right? So a case that comes to mind
44:04
is a man with absolutely no criminal record.
44:09
who walked out of a Lowe's, who had some construction
44:13
material that he purchased, who was profiled,
44:15
arrested. And when they got him to the processing
44:19
center, they forced him through fear, and by
44:25
interrogating him, and then causing great fear
44:27
that he'd not see his children for a long time
44:29
to sign a stipulated order of removal, which
44:32
was his own order of removal. They had him on
44:35
a plane, shackled, and he again told them, I
44:39
have four U .S. citizen children. So if we're
44:41
talking about safety, what would happen to those
44:44
four U .S. citizen children, ages very young,
44:47
like three or four to young teenagers? Who's
44:50
looking out for the safety of those U .S. citizen
44:52
children? And then another individual was profiled
44:56
in northern Oregon. He was working for a company
44:59
that maintained sidewalks and parking lots. And
45:01
again, they looked at him, saw the work he was
45:04
doing, profiled him, arrested him, leaving two
45:07
U .S. citizen children and a wife. He was the
45:09
only income provider to that family. Another
45:13
case, a man of six U .S. citizen children. He
45:16
had worked in the farming industry for over 20
45:20
years. He had a crew of people that took care of fruit
45:24
trees. The employer was very dependent upon him
45:27
training and managing the team of folks. So an
45:31
employer lost a valuable employee. Six U .S.
45:34
citizen children lost the only income provider
45:36
to their home. Who's looking out for the interests
45:40
of that family who was very close to losing their
45:43
home because they couldn't make the mortgage
45:45
payments until their community stepped in? Who's
45:48
looking out for those four U .S. citizen children
45:51
who had just lost their mother from cancer eight
45:53
months previous while their father was doing
45:56
nothing but going to work? So whose safety are
45:59
we talking about when we talk about terrorizing
46:02
communities and ripping families apart? And...and..Having to...If that
46:08
gentleman didn't have an attorney show up on
46:11
his behalf and demand that they take him off
46:13
that plane and give him an opportunity to see
46:15
an immigration judge because he had been coerced
46:18
into signing his own stipulation of removal order,
46:21
what would happen to those four children? Who
46:24
would have taken care of them? So these people
46:27
are profiled for working, essentially, for exiting
46:31
a location where they're buying materials to...
46:34
perform labor and it seems to be hard labor work
46:37
it seems to be physical labor work so profiled
46:40
for being not just working class, but working
46:43
class in the middle of doing physical labor work
46:45
is there some sort of misconception out there
46:47
that people who do hard labor make your community
46:50
unsafe, which seems to be backwards to me. It seems
46:53
to be like those are the people that are an essential
46:55
part of making things function. That disconnect
46:58
and dichotomy between 'oh we are going to follow
47:01
people and detain people that are physically
47:05
doing labor work' seems to be against the whole
47:08
American prospect of come to America, work hard,
47:12
make your life, make your due. I don't know.
47:15
Michaela? A misconception is that they are... that this population
47:19
is taking jobs away from able -bodied, quote
47:22
-unquote, Americans. I live out off of the Yelm
47:25
Highway, and there are some jobs out there in
47:28
the fields, the strawberry fields, the blueberry
47:30
fields, the raspberry fields, that are open to
47:33
anybody who wants to apply. The only people that
47:37
are working out there are immigrant neighbors
47:39
and friends. So they are not taking jobs away
47:43
from able -bodied Americans, even though you'll
47:46
hear that rhetoric over and over. And the other
47:49
misconception is that these people are the worst
47:52
of the worst. And Steffani's already addressed
47:55
that, that that's not the case, that most immigrants
47:58
keep a pretty low profile and follow the law
48:01
better than those of us that have lived here
48:04
all our lives. Misconceptions. Thank you, Lynne.
48:09
Rhetoric is the word for it that I would use
48:11
as well. It seems to be that there's loud shouting,
48:14
talking points trying to demonize people. And
48:17
it doesn't seem like prosecution is what the
48:20
goal here. It seems like the goal is meeting
48:22
numbers at the expense of the safety of the people
48:25
in our communities. We've talked a lot about
48:40
the struggles. I wanted to ask you both about
48:43
a positive example of a positive result that
48:46
you have had following the course of someone
48:48
going through these detention services or being
48:50
able to pull them out of this detention system,
48:53
or even if it's just hearing from one of your
48:56
clients that you've made a positive impact. I
49:00
will refer again to the case of the gentleman
49:03
who was shackled and on the plane because the
49:06
night before they put him on the plane, I went
49:09
to the detention center that night and sat with
49:11
him and listened to his story, saw the love in
49:14
his eyes for his children, the pain in his heart
49:17
for the loss of his wife, and I said, I will
49:20
fight as hard as I can for you. And he said,
49:22
you know, they're coming to get me tonight to
49:24
deport me. I said, then I'll be here first thing
49:26
in the morning fighting for you. And so I got
49:28
up very early in the morning. It was a dark,
49:31
rainy day. I'll never forget this. I called G
49:33
.O. and they said he's gone. They've deported
49:35
him. And I hung up the phone and just cried a
49:40
bit, right, because I told him I'd be there fighting
49:42
for him. And I decided to get my old truck and
49:45
drive up I -5 and go to the detention center
49:48
and just see what I could do, if there was anything
49:50
I could do, right? And the ICE office didn't
49:52
open until 8 o 'clock. I sat there and waited
49:55
and waited. So finally, the person came out and
49:58
said they're taking him off the plane. Probably
50:00
the highlight of my Thirty-three years, probably
50:02
the highlight of my career. When I walked into
50:04
the consultation room, he was sitting there and
50:06
he had a smile on his face, and he said, I knew
50:08
you'd be here fighting for me. And so he said
50:12
he was on the plane, shackled both his ankles
50:14
and his arms. And he just kept waiting. And he
50:17
kept waiting. He was waiting for either the plane
50:20
to take off or to be taken off the plane. And
50:23
when they took him off the plane, he understood
50:25
what had happened, that someone had showed up
50:27
and someone had given her best, not knowing what
50:30
she was doing, to get him off that plane. That
50:32
was really incredible. And I think he and I will
50:35
be connected for the rest of our lives over that
50:37
experience. We were able to get him out of detention.
50:40
Not only did we get him off the plane, we were
50:42
able to get him out of detention and back with
50:44
his children. And he has his removal hearing
50:47
next year. But he has a really strong case of
50:50
cancellation of removal. He's been in the United States more than
50:53
10 years. He's worked all those 10 years, which
50:56
is kind of interesting. Let's talk about that.
50:58
Here you're punished for working. He was arrested
51:01
for doing his job, going to work, getting his
51:04
materials that he needed to do his job. And yet
51:07
when he puts on his Cancellation of Removal case
51:09
in front of an immigration judge in Seattle next
51:11
year, he has to prove that he worked for 10 years,
51:14
right? That he has filed his tax returns for
51:17
10 years, which he has. That's a great success.
51:20
Despite everything, despite them literally trying
51:23
to play keep away from you, still holding on
51:26
and showing up, you were able to get him back
51:28
with his family. That's an incredible success.
51:30
Earlier you mentioned Agua. What other organizations
51:34
do you partner with or do you communicate with
51:36
during this process? So I'm a member of the American
51:40
Immigration Lawyers Association, and there are
51:43
individual private attorneys that I will ask
51:47
for guidance on in some of the cases. And then
51:50
there's the Northwest Immigrant Rights Project,
51:53
NIRP, an incredible organization that we partner
51:56
with for federal filings right now. So judges
51:59
at the detention center are refusing to issue
52:03
bonds on behalf of people who previously would
52:07
have been eligible to bond themselves out to
52:10
go on the non -detained docket if they entered
52:12
the country without permission, even if it's
52:14
20 years ago. And in the past, before just a
52:16
couple of years ago, those folks qualified for
52:19
bond. You would do the bond hearing, show that
52:22
they're not a flight risk or a danger to the
52:23
community. They would pay a bond, get out and
52:26
have their hearings. Well, now the judges are
52:28
saying, regardless of when an individual entered
52:30
the United States, they're not eligible for bond,
52:32
even though federal courts have said, yes, they
52:34
are eligible for bond. So when we have that situation,
52:37
which our first few cases were all those cases,
52:40
we can then send the case to the Northwest Immigrant
52:43
Rights Project habeas team. And they are filing
52:47
in federal court requests that the individuals
52:49
be released because the judges are erroneous
52:53
in their belief that their hands are tied. And
52:55
so we've had a number of those cases get approved.
52:57
So those have been some nail biters. When people
53:00
contact LISO and they want to volunteer, we right
53:03
now are sending them to Agua because they have
53:06
volunteer training, and they are plugging people
53:09
in to... do you want to work with families, make
53:12
sure the children are getting to medical appointments,
53:14
or they have food, diapers, so forth, and support
53:16
the remaining parent, or if there isn't a remaining
53:18
parent. We have a case right now of a 14 -year
53:21
-old that is in an Agua volunteer's home. They're
53:24
doing an amazing job. So you have folks that
53:26
support the families, and then you have folks
53:28
that go into the detention center and support
53:30
the detained individuals. That was going to be
53:32
my next question, is when people want to volunteer
53:35
for you, you would send them most likely to Agua
53:38
first, unless they have actual legal expertise
53:41
history or they're an attorney themselves, or
53:43
people that want to volunteer their time or their
53:45
donations, would you still send them directly
53:48
to Agua first for this? People can help in a
53:51
number of ways. We have encountered amazing support
53:55
from this community, not just from Agua. We do
53:59
have some volunteers that have specific skills
54:02
that they bring to us. Like we're just in the
54:04
process of hiring a volunteer bookkeeper for
54:07
LISO. Folks that have helped us with spreadsheets,
54:11
maintenance, database maintenance. Donations
54:15
are a big deal. We have a... our first annual
54:18
fundraiser coming up in July, July 11th, which
54:22
will be a big pan of paella cooked for 200 people.
54:26
And it'll be on Urban Futures Farm. There'll
54:29
be a raffle, music, just a great time. That's
54:32
wonderful. We Yeah. are just the tip of the spear that's
54:36
being thrown by our community. Our community
54:38
has created LISO. There's no doubt about that.
54:41
We would not exist if it wasn't for the community
54:44
saying, no, we're not going to accept this. The
54:47
need is so great, it's time to expand, right?
54:50
So that we can help more people. What is the
54:53
best way for people to reach you? Is it through
54:55
your website, or? We have a phone number that's on
54:58
our webpage. We've got somebody that actually
55:00
answers the phone. Yeah, through email and telephone.
55:04
Best way to get in touch with us. We can be reached
55:06
on our website, www .lisowa .org, all lowercase.
55:12
Local phone number, 360 -485 -4488. We can also
55:18
be reached by email at contact@lisowa.org Thank
55:22
you so much. Is there anything else that you
55:26
would like to share today? I'm very, very interested
55:29
in working with people for a long term goal,
55:34
as I mentioned earlier, of shutting down these
55:36
detention centers and creating a more humane,
55:40
protective system that honors the rights of individuals
55:44
that are currently being trampled on. Steffani
55:47
and Lynne, thank you so much for your time. I
55:49
appreciate it. Thank you, Michaela. That's it
55:59
for today's Resource Report produced by Pathways
56:02
to Agency. At Pathways to Agency, we are driven
56:05
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56:51
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