Latest / System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation / Guest(s): The Gianu System, Part 2

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Guest(s): The Gianu System, Part 2 · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the System Speak podcast, a podcast about dissociative identity disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to longtime listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: So so there is that, and I know that part of what we're leading into is what happened last year. So let me, just for listeners, in case someone somehow missed all of this, recap briefly just what led up to happening, and then you can share your experience to the degree you want to. I don't at all mean to push or pressure, but I appreciated your email, and I'm happy to have you as a voice here.
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: So last year, I have to literally walk. It's still so painful. Even for me even for me, it is still so painful that it's really hard to even talk about. I had to take last year off. I I was a disaster in every area of my life last year, the whole year long.
• 1:53
  I Yeah. I could not do podcast interviews last year. My the podcast that did go out last year were a hot mess. I I no longer felt safe. It took away safety for me in a way that I couldn't do even what I had been trying to do.
• 2:14
  Like, I wasn't even as coherent. I was isolated from people. I was going through big life transitions at the time, which is unrelated, but it was part of my experience. Like, we come from I had no idea that we came from a similar area in the world, and I was working through some really specific stuff with religious trauma. And all these things that were, like, completely life changing to me and to have the rug pulled out from under me and my concept of safety was devastating.
• 2:47
  And I don't know how I survived it, much less other people more directly involved. So what we're talking about last year was twenty twenty three. The fall before that in October, I think, there was a panel presentation at ISSTD that Jules and I were watching, and we have this cute little nerdy setup where we had like, it was gonna be con a virtual conference weekend. So we were ready to nerd out. We were gonna recap it for the podcast.
• 3:19
  We had, like, journals and markers and crayons and washi tape and snacks. Like, it was a whole thing, and we were nerdy and adorable. But the presentation was so offensive. All we did was throw things at the TV. And at the time, we referenced on the podcast that there was not even enough stuff to do a recap with because it was such a problem.
• 3:43
  And I contacted the people and said, hey. This was not cool. We can't do it like that. And I had private conversations and relational conversations, like, trying to do the things in the spaces where I had privilege at all, like, any degree of privilege. Right?
• 4:01
  So then in the spring, when the McLean video came out with Matt Robinson presenting this again, but on his own and using the video clip specifically again, which he was not the first one to do because it happened the fall before. But for him to do that and then, like, basically, his presentation went viral online because of people's response to the presentations. But you were one of the systems referenced. What how did you find out it had happened, and what was your experience of that that you wanted to share?
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: So, when you woke up and our phone had so many notifications of people saying, are you okay? That's how we found out. And what a way to find out, like, over and over. Are you okay? Oh my god.
• 5:01
  What happened? Why is everybody asking me this? And I actually couldn't watch the whole thing for it it took a hot minute, and I had to have my my husband there with me to, like, help me be grounded and regulated because it was so enormously triggering, to see a, person who is supposed to be healing in this community and an expert with this disorder using content of ours and content of systems that we we know and are friends with, to discredit the work that we've been doing and our ourselves personally was just devastating and incredibly dysregulating. I think it was three days before we could really sleep after that. And finding finding ways to respond was difficult.
• 6:21
  Like, what what do you say? The there are a very specific set of people who are trolls for the DID community and are all the time actively looking for ways to discredit, that it is an actual disorder, that people online who are talking about it have the disorder. And they pounced on this video, and they were, coming into my comments and telling other people, hey. Don't listen to them. You know?
• 6:55
  This person is a liar. You can go and watch this video and see that they're a liar, that they're trying to, like, deceive y'all. They're just doing this for, views and for money, which the for money part is laughable. But, and it was, like, I I couldn't pick up my phone without going into fight or flight. Like, I would literally shake.
• 7:23
  Yes. Pardon me. It was incredibly difficult. And, we had been doing trauma processing and therapy and had been making some amazing progress, and that just stopped. We couldn't process.
• 7:42
  We couldn't do anything but try and live in our current moment. Like, we had, people trying to dox us, which they eventually did, which the, just the the feeling of, you know, there's people who online
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: would
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: like to hurt you and would like to expose your where you live and where your your you know, we have kids, like and we've been very careful not to, have them on our our videos because they're 18 and, like, to have I feel like that was taken away.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry for interrupting, but I just wanna validate this piece specifically. I don't know if people who do not have an online presence understand how high risk this is. We also were doxxed, I think, in 02/2018. We had to move because of it. We have had people show up at my children's schools.
• 8:51
  We have had, people have contacted my university to see if I really have my degrees. People have contacted the state boards to see if I really have a license. All of which you can verify online, or we're happy to answer. People have said things like that we're not deaf or that we don't have cochlear implants. Like, you they're on my head.
• 9:18
  You can look. Like, like, so many there's so much truth in this from everything of just arguing with the reality of things to actual danger and putting you in danger because of people who tell people who do things. And I even because of active cases with that legally cannot talk about that more, but I want to validate what you're saying that that's a thing and a serious safety concern when people try to be vocal about dissociation as a thing.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah. The amount of vitriol. And it was it was like the that video gave all of those people the permission that they had been wanting to direct their active hate in our direction. It was a lot. And I say that for me, and I saw other systems who had been included in that video who, it was worse for, who later ended up in inpatient.
• 10:36
  It was so detrimental, and, and I was not the only one doxxed off of that who had kids. And, one of them had, CPS called, which, you know, they still have their children because they're responsible parents. You can pair it with DID. But just to have that happen because of the irresponsibility of that video was just astounding.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: I had so many mixed reactions when it was happening. I was I when I when I saw what was happening, I had so many layers at once. At first, just being naive to like, when the presentation first started and just being naive, I thought, oh, this is a good thing. This means they have heard us because I have been saying and published a peer reviewed article about this is the history of the online movement. Here is what is going on.
• 11:38
  Here are people. Like, this what is being presented is different. They're not coming to our offices the same as they did twenty years ago, and here's why. And trying to give language and trying to document that this is a valid thing even though it's a different presentation. I don't mean it's a different kind of DID.
• 12:00
  I don't mean it's a whatever. I just mean if like, people who especially are native users, like, growing up with access to technology, if they find these resources, whether or not they self diagnose or get diagnosed by a clinician and have access to these resources, regardless, if people have access to this stuff on social media, it does what we talked about earlier where they have access to themselves and language differently than twenty years ago when someone came to therapy and didn't know anything. And so Yes. We are still responsible to be culturally competent in helping these people who have access to online support or social media resources even if it looks different than before. So I cannot identify with this.
• 13:01
  I do not have the skills you have to be like, hey. Table up. We're gonna talk about these things. Like, I need to build those muscles. I need to get to that place, and I'm not there yet.
• 13:11
  So does it look something different than my experience? It does. And, also, if you're a therapist, you need to know how to help these people if they come to you wanting help for whatever they want help with. Maybe they don't even want help with plurality. Maybe they want help with anxiety or depression or getting through school.
• 13:30
  You need to be able to understand them to help them. That's why I wrote the article. And the presentation the fall before was absolutely I have talked to Rich Lowenstein directly. It was absolutely in response to the article. And so I was like, okay.
• 13:46
  You really did a poor job of this, and, also, it's really important you're paying attention. Like, good job, buddy. And also, we need to fix the tone, and we need to fix the context, and let's talk about this. So when this started in the spring, what I felt, like, at the first few minutes, I thought, this is excellent because in my head, I thought it was going to be what was a good effort in the fall but poorly done edited. Does that make sense?
• 14:20
  Like Yes. It does. So now
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: they've heard my article needed information without the, like you said, the tone and the the cultural deafness on, social media.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Right. So I thought, okay. Now they have the information of the articles, so they see us. That's good. They're getting that it's a thing.
• 14:43
  That's good. And now they're going to edit, like, receive the feedback that we gave last fall and present it better. This is huge. Like, I thought this is the breakthrough of a lifetime. And then I just kept watching, and I literally went and threw up.
• 15:04
  And just I I mean, there were people from the system speak community that were featured. I was holding my breath to see if he referenced me in a negative way. Like, there was, yeah, you can go back to your story because you were referenced. I didn't mean to speak over that.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: No. And I appreciated everything that you said, and including the the getting sick because my my physical response as well, which I didn't know that was a physical response you could have to somebody putting out something like that online.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: A therapist said that we throw up like that because our body rejects poison.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: That is very affirming. And I I want to add as well. You were talking about the content that you made after that, that it was you were like a hot mess, I think, is the phrase you used. When I was coming into my my therapist's appointments afterwards and, just devastated and not knowing how she should feel or what to do and, just a royal of emotions, and feeling very, very exposed. She was like, hey.
• 16:25
  Have you listened to the system speaks reaction? And I I hadn't. And it was very comforting to hear, your response that you you put out, and I very much appreciate you doing it even in the, dysregulation of the the weeks after.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: That will make me cry. It it was too many weeks late, but I was still holding my breath of they're gonna say something. Right? They're gonna do something. Right?
• 17:01
  Like, the same like, maybe a very child response, child parts. Like, I don't know what that was, the trauma of it. And then when, like, in the drama that followed, just just being transparent on my end, in the drama that followed and the activated fight responses and the nastiness online and social media. And, again, I do not mean that in a shaming way. People had like, we go into fight response because we are responding to trauma.
• 17:34
  I get that. Oh. But in that, where ISSTD had for me been a safe place full full of lived experience, to then have lived experience friends being so nasty about what for me was a safe place and I had given a decade of my life investing in making change for, it activated in me very young parts related to my parents getting divorced. Mhmm. That is what it felt like.
• 18:14
  And it was in the middle of me doing therapy work on sexuality and religious trauma. And so even as, like, all the social media people and the lived experience clinicians, like, we're gonna gather, we're gonna unite, we're gonna do this thing. I'm like, woah. I'm not supposed to join new churches or cults right now. And I don't mean that that's what that was, but I was in a place where literally, neurologically, I could not join the bandwagon.
• 18:44
  Like, I could it wasn't that I wasn't on board. It was that I was literally already in a place of therapy of, I can't join new things right now because not a movement. I'm trying to heal a specific piece. But the woundedness was so deep. And then how do I say, here is what is good and right about ISSTD or that ISSTD was founded on lived experience.
• 19:09
  There were holocaust survivors literally. And all of this and also the absolute wounded and devastating experience of what happened in those moments and the days that followed as well as the implications because of it. Things like getting docs, things like people's lives literally being at risk, and how to blend that. Like, how what how do you find words for that? So you saying that means so much to me because how do you what do you say when someone's hurting?
• 19:49
  There's nothing that's gonna fix it. There are no words that are enough that are going to fix it, and I felt somewhat responsible because it was started because of my article.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: And I I think what you said was, like, not only was it balanced, but what what do you say to someone who's hurting is, I see your hurt. I see Yes. This pain. And that was a lot of what your message was, was like, I see this. Like, this this is this hurts.
• 20:29
  This doesn't feel good. And so when we talk about attunement, it's the mirroring back. And so to have my own devastation mirrored back to see that there was attunement within the community was very helpful to me.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Oh, you all are so brave. Other social media and content creators, however they identify, are so brave to do what they do. Even once people started saying, oh, now you can put your podcast on YouTube, and that would help support the podcast and this and that. I couldn't do it because I have video trauma. And I talked about that a little bit on the podcast, but I just it never was gonna work for me.
• 21:19
  And it's just not who I am, and I couldn't not be who I am. Uh-huh. So I was okay, and I kind of still am. Although I'm sorry it bothers some people, but also, like, there's nothing I can do about it. I'm just not that person.
• 21:34
  Like, this I can do this, so I'm gonna do this. Yes. But the pieces you all are able to give and share and present, And Katie Keach is a friend of mine that I've worked, on the treatment guidelines with bev again, before all of this happened. And after all of this happened, one of the things he talked about and tried to point out for for clinicians generally was how some content, not all content, but some content takes, like, several takes or is really intentional or has editing or has littles helping with editing. Like, there are so many layers.
• 22:14
  So when they say this doesn't look real or when I say that is not something I can do, that's not the same as saying that's wrong or not real.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: Yes. And it goes back to narrative. So, one of the videos that because they used two of our videos in in the clip. And one of the videos was a a narrative video that we had put in the comments. Like, this this is, I forget how we said it, but it wasn't like this is a reenactment.
• 22:50
  It was like, this is a dramatization of what actually happens, and it was the guess who game because that's what we called it when Jonathan would be like, Who's fronting? And, you know, sometimes you have no clue. You're just a blendy mess, and I don't know. And so he would start asking questions like, well, do you how do you feel about salmon? Because that's a very polarizing opinion in our system.
• 23:14
  And so he would, like, narrow it down, and then that would help inform him because some alters are very touch averse and stuff. So that would inform him of how to, like, interact with us in the in the best way for us just to know who was who was around. And so we joked and called it our Guess Who game. And I was like, we should make a video where we're playing Guess Who, as as as a narrative, as an analogy of what we actually do. And we thought this was hilarious.
• 23:47
  Like, it was fun to film. It was, like, a fun example of what actually happens, but without a game board.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: I think it's such a funny, funny metaphor and a profound example of things being taken out of context.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Very much so. Like, you know, it even said in in the video, like, this because we do educational videos. But if anyone is familiar with this, our educational videos are very much different in tone. Like, that wasn't education. That was just us giving a fun, like, example of what it's like living with someone with DID.
• 24:27
  And then the second video was very much, playful, but for us, has been so helpful that he, Jonathan knows who's fronting. Like, he can just tell by our body language, our intonation, and we wanted to to show that. Like, that when you know the system, they don't have to be like, Oh, hey, I'm out right now. Like, the people around you, they just they just know you. And so, yeah, understanding culture and context is so, so important.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: What has that been like for you in the year since? It really has almost been a year now.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: Mhmm. Yeah. Well, I would say, it was very difficult kind of constantly for, like, six months after that because people just kept coming, being sent from that video. And, we were requesting that these things be taken down, but not being the owner of the video, like, we couldn't get them taken down. So then we were trying to request through McLean, like, can you take this down?
• 25:49
  Like, this is continuing to harm, and we can't issue a copyright violation because we're not the copyright owner. So when people would reupload it to YouTube or reupload it anywhere else, like, there was nothing we could do and the, you know, the hate just kept coming. It was nine months before we were able to start trauma processing again. Like, it was just that long of dealing with this and all the repercussions of this. And I'm gonna admit, I was a little bit bitter.
• 26:21
  I was like, you know, we we don't have insurance, chronically ill, and we are pretty uninsurable. We've had a lot of people check because they're like, oh, no. We can no. Nope. And so that means we pay for our therapy out of pocket.
• 26:39
  And I was like, this is not only cost me my my mental health and physical health, because when you have chronic conditions, stress, uh,acerbates it, but then also literally costing me, money here because I can't deal with the thing that I'm going to therapy for in the first place, you know, my mental health, because I'm having to then deal with this specific thing that people who are supposed to be healers, brought into my life. It was very difficult.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. I think I think it's one of the things so many of us experience in therapy when there is new trauma that takes up weeks and weeks and months before we can even get back to what we were already trying to work through. Mhmm. So I got this email from you. Let's talk about that piece.
• 27:43
  I got this email from you saying you heard about Matt Robinson being on a panel for ISSTD and had feelings about that, that this is coming up, the ISSTD. When we're recording this, the ISSTD conference is in about four weeks, and that that was distressing. But then you saw that I was on it as well. Let me talk about that just for a moment that just for clarity, at ISSTD this year, I am giving one of the plenary talks, like a keynote. And I was asked and contracted, which I did because I had children who need to be fed.
• 28:31
  And that is a clinical thing I can do, and I will be paid and can do that. And I don't usually get paid for presentations. Right? So in my career, it is a big thing. It is a good thing.
• 28:43
  It is an accomplishment. It is an honor. All of these things. I signed that contract the week before the McLean video happened last year. And then last fall, Christmas, somewhere, it was a very blurry time for me.
• 29:00
  So I'm sorry I don't have exact times. I was contacted by Michael Salter in an email asking me if I would be on a panel about lived experience. And Uh-huh. I was like, well, I mean, I'm gonna be there anyway, so let's do this. And now what I see is who else is on the panel.
• 29:20
  I do not have any questions about the panel. I don't know what is the panel going to be about or what is going to be said. And just for fun context about my level of functioning, I have had a very hard winter, as happens with those of us of survivors, like, coming out of my traumaversary season of things, like a series of things, plus new stuff, all good, beautiful healing coming out of it, but it's been brutal. So I'm kind of in a shaky place, just to be honest. I'm not in a good place already.
• 29:52
  But the day that all of this is happening, there is a faculty meeting happening first that I have to attend because I'm trying to teach a course because they're getting lived experience people to teach the courses, which is a good thing. That is progress. Yeah. That is why I agreed to it before all of this happened. Right?
• 30:13
  So yay that we're doing that. But they have a faculty meeting with during the time which is when I would be going through my slides and calming my nerves and, like, centering my system or whatever language you wanna use. Then is my plenary talk, and then they have me scheduled for a book signing that I didn't even know was happening. And then I go straight from that to this panel, which I still don't have information. So I did I am trying to use my words and advocate for myself, and I did send an email of, hey.
• 30:49
  Are there is there specific questions we're discussing, or can I prepare for this at all, or what is happening? I'm also aware I was actually just told this morning because I am not on social media at all. So I was only told just this morning that people are already talking about this online, which absolutely terrifies me because even even if I'm aware that some of the people on the panel are men, so I'm a little that could just be me. I am not speaking about them. I'm just saying it is a natural anxiety of how much will I even get a voice anyway.
• 31:28
  And even if I do, and even if I can say all of the brave things or answer it intelligently, I still only represent me in the podcast or just me in my person. I'm not a social media person. They didn't call me out in those videos. I can't speak to the I mean, I can honor those experiences, but that doesn't count as speaking for them.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: Mhmm.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: So there are so many caveats and nuances and limitations. I don't know what's gonna happen. But back to your email, what do you wanna say about your email to me, which is what led to this conversation?
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So I I heard that he was gonna be speaking again and on a similar topic, And it crushed me. Like like, please not again. You know? And, but as I'm not part of, the ISSTD, I didn't have much information.
• 32:31
  So I contacted a system friend who I knew was, and I was like, can you confirm? Is this is this really happening? And they they said, yes. But look who else is speaking on this panel. And I felt much more hopeful, like, just to know you that a system is going to be represented there.
• 33:00
  Like you said, the lived experience, made me feel like whatever might happen, there will be a voice. Because, like you said, we don't we don't know what the content of that is going to be. We don't know, like because of our trauma, we're like, well, if if doctor Robinson, is a narcissist or has narcissistic tendency tendencies, then the the lashbacks from last year's video could produce that that narcissistic wounding, and then he could be very bitter and very, like, attacking. If he has learned, like, if if he took the lash back at this this teachable moment and has listened to voices and has learned, it could be beautiful. It could be somewhere in between.
• 33:59
  But because it was so wounding last year, like, our our initial reaction was just heavy. Please not again. And while all of that is an unknown, just knowing that there is a system being represented made us feel a lot better.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: I will do my best. It feels currently and I am sure this is part activated response myself, but it feels currently like the scariest day of my life. Maybe top five. Not most horrible. Some horrible things have happened in my past, but maybe top five scariest days of my life.
• 34:45
  I don't know how it's going to unfold. Also, for full disclosure, because I have looked at the schedule, he is also doing a presentation with a scientist researcher, doctor Melissa Kaufman, who has presented at Healing Together before. In fact, my first interaction with any of that group of people was actually at Healing Together. They did a wonderful fairly wonderful presentation. There were some tone issues then as well, but they were saying that they were mitigating it by having these lived experience stories and, like, posters in an airport or something like that.
• 35:26
  I don't wanna get this story wrong. That's just what I'm remembering. And so I messaged them and was like, this was fantastic. I think it it I mean, it was not, like, it's not great, but it is progress. Right?
• 35:37
  So we'll take the progress a step at a time. So come on the podcast. Let me interview you. I've already had the these famous clinicians or these pioneers in the field. They have talked to me.
• 35:49
  So come talk to me, and you have your turn. And let's like, let me help that. Let me support that progress. And those individuals said yes, and then the hospital said no. And they canceled their interviews.
• 36:03
  So that has been my only experience. They are not people other than I have seen I know that she is on the scientific committee with ISSTD, and so on the guidelines and things like that. So other than those kinds of meetings, I do not know doctor Robinson or her directly, personally. Like, I do know many, many other people, including many people with lived experience, some who are out and some who are not. And so I I would be open to having those conversations, to attempting those relationships, but I don't know what that looks like.
• 36:46
  I am working on it very hard right now with Rich Lowenstein. He is being very responsive. And as part of that, Bethany Brand as well. And there are good things unfolding there, but I'm scared, and it feels tumultuous or precarious. And what's gonna happen with the panel that I'm a part of, which is separate from his presentation with Melissa Kaufman?
• 37:14
  Uh-huh. I I don't know, but I I will try. I will try to honor all of these things. And not just these things or these dynamics, but our stories and our shared experiences of just trying to use our voice in the world in ways that other people can hear us and know they're not alone. Like, I wanna talk about noble things like advocacy or destigmatizing or things like that, but sometimes it's not even about that.
• 37:51
  Sometimes it's just about if you are out there and can hear me, then you are not alone, and we are in this together.
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: Yes. All all of that. And, you know, you've talked several times about, those of us, making social media content being brave. And, like, honestly, the amount of bravery that it takes for you, even just professionally because, you know, you have your professional life. And to do this podcast, to to be that open is huge.
• 38:31
  And then once again, the amount of bravery to to go to this conference just to show up not knowing, because as as people who've experienced trauma, that hypervigilance, that give me all the information and and
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: there
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: there is none. Like, I just really want to affirm and thank you for the immense level of bravery that it takes, just to show up.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: That made me cry, and I would be told that for later, but thank you. Is there anything else that you wanted to say or share while we had you on today?
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: One thing, when you were talking about the two conferences, you you had mentioned that you met them originally at the Healing Together conference. And, this past time was our first time going in person, and we were so struck by the lack of division between clinician and people with lived experiences. There were 400 people in attendance. 200 people were systems. I I was watching a session.
• 39:55
  They said of the 400, like, seventeen, eighteen percent were supporters. And then the rest are, like, clinicians. And nobody like, I noticed nobody walking around making any difference in interaction. So, like, everyone was just there together, and it was such a beautiful experience to not have a, like, power differential between the people with the lived experience and the people trying to learn and do research. Like, it was it was absolutely beautiful, and I really hope that that is indicative of more where the field is going in the future.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: It is what we are trying. It is something we have always tried to do on the podcast that has been in our mission from the beginning to bridge the gap between clinician and lived experience. And some of these clashes are because of that. And so I think in some ways, I feel responsible for that, but I think it can be good. It doesn't have to be harmful.
• 41:05
  But when it is harmful, we have to say so, and we have to stand together against that because it's not okay. But it can like, in the bridging of the gap, at some point, there is a meeting of the minds. And with lived experience, and there's also a meeting of hearts. And that is the place where healing can happen, and that is the place where the world changes.
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: Yes. Absolutely. And even in that space of repair. So to say, yes, rupture happened, and to enter that space of repair, like, I think that's a lot of what healing looks like for systems. The first is to to overcome enough to be to even admit that rupture happened, that intense trauma happened.
• 41:53
  And then after that, the work is reparative. The work is going into that rupture and facing all of it, the the anger and the grieving and the the different sides, and and to stand there and try and and hold it all while things come back together. And if that's what we we do internally, like, the community could do this externally. It could be a healing moment if if they stood up for and said, okay. This was ruptured.
• 42:35
  What does repair look like? It it could be so so healing. Yes.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming on to talk with me today.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: Absolutely a privilege. You made me cry. Oh, yeah. Like, so many tissues.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: I know. Right? Oh my goodness. And I am so grateful to know you, and your email meant the world to me. And it's emails like that or conversations like that that give me the courage to get up on that stage or to say the things I need to or to keep trying at all, keep living at all.
• 43:07
  Right? Like, just thank you so much, truly.
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. And, like, y'all are gonna feel enough pressure, like, going in. Like, don't think I don't want you to feel any weight, like, that you have to perform for the community. You show up as you speak for you. K.
• 43:35
  And that will be enough.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Sorry. Thank you, really.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. And, also, reach out to us any anytime. Yeah. We'll be sending you all the the good thoughts and vibes for for this, so you're you'll be uplifted. Thank you.
• 43:59
  Mhmm. Bye. Bye.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing, and you can join us on the community at www.systemspeakcommunity.com. We'll see you there.