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How Online Predators Target Girls and What Parents Can Do · Raising Daughters

0:14
Speaker 1: Hello friends, Doctor Tim Jordan back here with You with
0:17
Speaker 1: a brand new podcast of Raising Daughters. I come back
0:22
Speaker 1: here here with You every week with different topics, and
0:25
Speaker 1: I was introduced to our guest today. They emailed me
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Speaker 1: with some information. I thought this would be a really
0:33
Speaker 1: important topic to discuss on Raising Daughters, and so I
0:38
Speaker 1: hope that you will enjoy is maybe the wrong word.
0:42
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about trafficking and how you can
0:44
Speaker 1: protect your girls from that. So I invited a guest
0:50
Speaker 1: on the show. His name is Nick McKinley. He's a
0:53
Speaker 1: former military special operator, a CIA operative with thirty combat deployments.
0:59
Speaker 1: He went on to lead and lead and found multimillion
1:02
Speaker 1: dollar data and applied AI companies. He's a founder of
1:06
Speaker 1: deliver Fund, which she will talk about during the podcast.
1:09
Speaker 1: It's the first donor funded organization that equips law enforcement
1:13
Speaker 1: with proprietary data and technology to identify, disrupt, and dismantle
1:17
Speaker 1: human trafficking networks. Nick has testified before Congress. He advised
1:23
Speaker 1: global institutions like a Microsoft IBM. He led Operation soccer Balls,
1:27
Speaker 1: which is the largest private evacuation of women and girls
1:31
Speaker 1: during the fall of Afghanistan. So this is an important
1:35
Speaker 1: guy with a lot of information that I don't have,
1:37
Speaker 1: and I think most of you probably don't as well.
1:39
Speaker 1: So Nick, thank you so much for joining Racy.
1:42
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. So how
1:44
Speaker 2: did you fo daughter myself? It's an important to important
1:48
Speaker 2: discussion have.
1:49
Speaker 1: So how did you get into this area? This niche.
1:54
Speaker 2: Kind of the long the short version of a long
1:57
Speaker 2: story is that I spent most of my career at
2:01
Speaker 2: the CIA in counter terrorism related rules, right, And that
2:05
Speaker 2: was the whole purpose of having somebody like me is
2:08
Speaker 2: so you could you could, you know, capture bad guys
2:13
Speaker 2: and find out what they know. And in doing that
2:17
Speaker 2: work was constantly bumping into human trafficking related activities. But
2:22
Speaker 2: I just assumed there was a version of me and
2:24
Speaker 2: the US government that was focused on that issue. Right,
2:26
Speaker 2: I'm focused on terrorism, they're focused on that. And it
2:29
Speaker 2: wasn't until I was in southern Afghanistan leading a team
2:33
Speaker 2: there and myself in a counterpart from the Joint Special
2:37
Speaker 2: Operations Command came across what I like to just refer
2:39
Speaker 2: to as smoking gun intelligence on a trafficker, a human
2:44
Speaker 2: trafficker that was selling primarily little boys across the Afghanistan
2:48
Speaker 2: Pakistan border. And when we try to figure out, like
2:53
Speaker 2: where do we send this information? Who cares about this?
2:57
Speaker 2: You know, can we go do something about it or
2:59
Speaker 2: somebody else can do something about it, there wasn't anybody
3:02
Speaker 2: to send the information to, and there was and that
3:06
Speaker 2: helped made me start, you know, getting curious and started
3:08
Speaker 2: looking around the federal government. When you work at the
3:10
Speaker 2: government at that level, there's nothing that's off limits to you.
3:13
Speaker 2: So it's not like there's some secret organization that I
3:15
Speaker 2: couldn't find, right, I mean, I was the secret organization.
3:18
Speaker 2: And so so I started asking around to all of
3:24
Speaker 2: my friends and colleagues, like, have you ever been part
3:27
Speaker 2: of a human you know, anti or counter human trafficking operation?
3:32
Speaker 2: Do you know anybody who has? And I couldn't find
3:34
Speaker 2: a single person who could answer that question as a yes,
3:38
Speaker 2: And so I just decided that I was going to
3:41
Speaker 2: start researching the issue and then figured out the dollar
3:44
Speaker 2: for dollar, the largest human trafficking market is the United States,
3:49
Speaker 2: or the largest human trafficking market in the world, and
3:51
Speaker 2: so it you know, my mindset was was really blown
3:55
Speaker 2: because I thought, well, wait a minute, like we can
3:58
Speaker 2: kill people with flying robots from six thousand miles away,
4:02
Speaker 2: and yet we can't do anything about this trafficking issue
4:07
Speaker 2: that just continues to grow inside the United States. And
4:10
Speaker 2: so figured that if you know, I had the opportunity
4:14
Speaker 2: to go do something, I should take it. And so
4:15
Speaker 2: I did.
4:17
Speaker 1: I saw some data I think that you had sent
4:19
Speaker 1: that from twenty ten to twenty eighteen, child trafficking increased
4:23
Speaker 1: eight hundred and forty percent, and I would guess that
4:27
Speaker 1: since then it's probably growing up even more.
4:32
Speaker 2: Yeah. So that was actually from twenty ten to twenty fifteen,
4:35
Speaker 2: so just a five year period, and that was only
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Speaker 2: the reported suspected child trafficking cases to the National Center
4:43
Speaker 2: for Missing and Exploited Children. So that only includes you know,
4:49
Speaker 2: young young people who are below the age of eighteen.
4:53
Speaker 2: That doesn't include the eighteen year old girl, the nineteen
4:55
Speaker 2: year old girl, the twenty year old girl who's being trafficked.
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Speaker 2: So and when you look get that data, it's it's
5:03
Speaker 2: you know, I people think that because of my background, right,
5:06
Speaker 2: I'm you know, this kind of professional, tough guy. But
5:08
Speaker 2: they don't realize is I'm actually just a big data nerd.
5:11
Speaker 2: And when you look at the data and the research,
5:13
Speaker 2: what you find is that from twenty ten to twenty fifteen,
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Speaker 2: that that explosion and suspected child trafficking cases almost linearly
5:24
Speaker 2: maps with the adoption of social media apps and smartphones,
5:30
Speaker 2: which makes makes a lot of sense. And so what
5:32
Speaker 2: we what the internet did. What the internet did was
5:37
Speaker 2: it didn't give your child access to every predator on
5:41
Speaker 2: the Internet. It's actually the reverse. It gave every predator
5:45
Speaker 2: on the internet access to your child. And the social
5:49
Speaker 2: media companies are incentivized to keep that going. They have
5:53
Speaker 2: no financial incentive to stop that behavior. And so that's
6:00
Speaker 2: one of the one of the threats here that that
6:03
Speaker 2: parents really need to understand is that you know, Facebook
6:07
Speaker 2: isn't watching out you know, Snapchat, Instagram, Discord, rowblocks, like,
6:11
Speaker 2: they're not watching out for your kids. In fact, do
6:13
Speaker 2: they have a financial incentive not to?
6:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I tell parents all the time and
6:20
Speaker 1: and talks and things that we're we've gotten into this
6:24
Speaker 1: problem of overprotecting our kids offline and underprotecting them online.
6:30
Speaker 1: And it's it's a I think it's hard to know
6:34
Speaker 1: there's a line there somewhere where we don't want to
6:35
Speaker 1: freak our kids out, but yet we need to protect them. Uh,
6:39
Speaker 1: there's a lot of real online dangers that I think
6:41
Speaker 1: most parents aren't really aware of.
6:44
Speaker 2: Well it's not only are they not aware of them,
6:47
Speaker 2: but they're almost undetectable. And that's the really scary thing, right.
6:51
Speaker 2: I mean, we have alarms on our uh uh, you know,
6:55
Speaker 2: on our houses and on our doors and windows, and
6:57
Speaker 2: we have really good locks, and you know, we might
7:00
Speaker 2: get a big dog with a scary bark. We we
7:05
Speaker 2: do all these things to physically protect our kids. And
7:07
Speaker 2: we get them bark watches and you know, all these
7:09
Speaker 2: types of things. Right, so we know we know their
7:11
Speaker 2: location and we know where they're at. But that's really
7:14
Speaker 2: because you know, my generation of parent, right, I'm forty
7:18
Speaker 2: eight years old, So my generation of parent was raised
7:22
Speaker 2: where the stranger danger was the white van with free
7:25
Speaker 2: candy painted on the side that was going to, you know,
7:28
Speaker 2: go through the neighborhood and abduct your child. And while
7:30
Speaker 2: that does happen tragically, the chances in modern society of
7:37
Speaker 2: a child statistically being abducted by a stranger is they
7:43
Speaker 2: actually have a higher probability of being struck by lightning.
7:47
Speaker 2: Most most abductions, right, and most trafficking cases actually happened
7:52
Speaker 2: by somebody that the child knows and thinks as a friend. Now,
7:56
Speaker 2: we the children obviously don't classify the word friends end
8:00
Speaker 2: of the way that we do. Right, they met somebody online,
8:02
Speaker 2: They've never physically met them. They've had some conversations with them,
8:06
Speaker 2: so they're their friend quote right online, but they feel
8:11
Speaker 2: like they know them. And what the child doesn't realize
8:15
Speaker 2: is that, you know, the fourteen year old girl doesn't
8:17
Speaker 2: realize that the good looking sixteen year old boy that
8:20
Speaker 2: she thinks she's talking to online is really a forty
8:22
Speaker 2: two year old man who lives three thousand miles away
8:25
Speaker 2: and is a child predator, right or a human trafficker
8:29
Speaker 2: those That's what they don't realize, and that is virtually
8:34
Speaker 2: undetectable because the parents also have no way of telling
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Speaker 2: that that, you know, what they think is a sixteen
8:40
Speaker 2: year old boy is actually a forty two year old man.
8:43
Speaker 2: And that's the problem. It's the anonymity, not the privacy.
8:49
Speaker 2: The anonymity those are two very different things. It's the
8:51
Speaker 2: anonymity that the Internet and the kind of Internet communications
8:56
Speaker 2: infrastructure allows that creates the problem, makes it virtually undetectable.
9:02
Speaker 1: So in your work, then how do you attack that problem?
9:07
Speaker 2: Look like, yeah, So the way that we do that
9:10
Speaker 2: is we use a lot of proprietary techniques that I
9:12
Speaker 2: learned at the Central Intelligence Agency and hunting hunting terrorists,
9:16
Speaker 2: where we harvest open source data at massive scale. We
9:22
Speaker 2: have our own supercomputers that we use to crunch that
9:25
Speaker 2: data and make sense of it, and then we're able
9:27
Speaker 2: to use investigative techniques to figure out who the trafficker is.
9:31
Speaker 2: But what we are doing is we're actually investigating the
9:34
Speaker 2: crime of trafficking, not the grooming side, right, So the
9:39
Speaker 2: grooming of the child in order to in order to
9:43
Speaker 2: turn them into a trafficking victim. What we are investigating
9:47
Speaker 2: is in trying to find is the actual human traffic ger,
9:50
Speaker 2: if that makes sense. Right. So we're very very far downstream.
9:55
Speaker 2: The child is already being exploited by the time, by
9:58
Speaker 2: the time we're involved.
10:01
Speaker 1: And then how do you do that? I guess you
10:02
Speaker 1: said you're with your data systems, but yes, mostly online
10:07
Speaker 1: kind of investigatory.
10:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one hundred percent online. We're not you know,
10:13
Speaker 2: some kind of rogue vigilanties out there doing surveillance or
10:15
Speaker 2: kick candors or any of that kind of stuff. Right.
10:17
Speaker 2: You'll never see a go pro video from one of
10:20
Speaker 2: our folks on a raid or something like that. We're
10:25
Speaker 2: solely on the cyber intelligence side, So we're we're providing
10:29
Speaker 2: all that cyber intelligence because the way that trafficking works,
10:33
Speaker 2: it's a volume based business, and like any volume based business,
10:36
Speaker 2: they have to advertise online. So we're taking their advertisements
10:40
Speaker 2: and we're deconstructing their advertisements to figure out who's the
10:43
Speaker 2: bad guy who plays the advertisement in the first place.
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Speaker 1: I suspect it's not just parents who are quote unquote
10:50
Speaker 1: ignorant about this issue and have lots of misconceptions. I
10:53
Speaker 1: assume I shouldn't assume. I imagine that people in Congress
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Speaker 1: and people and other major institutions also have a lot
11:01
Speaker 1: of misunderstandings misconceptions. Would that be accurate?
11:05
Speaker 2: That's very accurate. You know, for political reasons, trafficking gets
11:09
Speaker 2: tied to the border a lot. And it's not that
11:12
Speaker 2: there isn't any trafficking happening across the border. But when
11:16
Speaker 2: you look at the data from the Department of Justice
11:20
Speaker 2: and they're human trafficking convictions, over ninety percent of the
11:25
Speaker 2: victims of human trafficking cases are US citizens. So the
11:29
Speaker 2: you know, human smuggling is what happens across the border.
11:32
Speaker 2: That's something where somebody chooses to engage in the illegal
11:36
Speaker 2: activity of coming across our border. Now when they get here,
11:40
Speaker 2: they're susceptible to being trafficked. But the major majority of
11:43
Speaker 2: trafficking is a you know, a human trafficker creating a
11:48
Speaker 2: fake online social media account, talking to your child and
11:53
Speaker 2: then getting your child to do something that they regret
11:55
Speaker 2: that they can use as a as a handle to
11:58
Speaker 2: control them and so that they can use them to
12:01
Speaker 2: make money.
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Speaker 1: What kind of guardrails safeguards comparents institute at home to
12:10
Speaker 1: protect their sons and daughters.
12:13
Speaker 2: So the number one thing is the same thing that
12:15
Speaker 2: you use for alcohol and drug abuse and anything else.
12:18
Speaker 2: It's primarily aimed at fathers. Be a good dad, Be
12:23
Speaker 2: a good dad to your daughter, and she's a lot less,
12:26
Speaker 2: a lot less susceptible to this. The second not that
12:30
Speaker 2: moms obviously don't have a have a profound impact on
12:34
Speaker 2: their daughters, but the research shows that major majority of
12:39
Speaker 2: young girls who get themselves into trouble it's usually because
12:42
Speaker 2: of some type of father wound. And then the secondary
12:46
Speaker 2: one is to help your children understand that you know,
12:50
Speaker 2: too good to be true is just that, and anything
12:55
Speaker 2: you put on the Internet exists for forever. There is
12:58
Speaker 2: like there is no take it down. And that is
13:02
Speaker 2: I think one of the common misconceptions that especially some
13:05
Speaker 2: of the older parents don't understand is they think that
13:09
Speaker 2: because they deleted the email out of their inbox, that
13:12
Speaker 2: that email no longer exists. Oh no, that email exists
13:15
Speaker 2: on a server. And any of these any of these
13:19
Speaker 2: traffickers or predators who are trying to get your children
13:22
Speaker 2: to send them, you know, especially things like nude photos.
13:25
Speaker 2: The moment they send them that photo, that photo is
13:28
Speaker 2: distributed to hundreds, if not thousands, if not hundreds of
13:31
Speaker 2: thousands of predators just like them, and you know, almost instantaneously.
13:36
Speaker 2: So getting children to understand that, I think is one
13:39
Speaker 2: of the one of the most important things. And then
13:42
Speaker 2: the third is helping children understand that what you do
13:46
Speaker 2: will be used against you. So so many times, you know,
13:50
Speaker 2: you talk to these young kids who are victims and
13:52
Speaker 2: they just say, well, I just didn't think this person
13:55
Speaker 2: would do that. I didn't think, you know, I mean,
13:58
Speaker 2: I understood that this this could be used against me,
14:00
Speaker 2: but I didn't. I just didn't think that they would
14:02
Speaker 2: do that because they were my friend. I'd been talking
14:04
Speaker 2: to them for months online. So they confuse consistent communication
14:11
Speaker 2: with with actually knowing somebody. And I think it's important
14:16
Speaker 2: to help to help kids understand that they really shouldn't
14:20
Speaker 2: be having any type of meaningful conversation with anybody that
14:24
Speaker 2: they have not physically met and that and that's hard
14:28
Speaker 2: in the modern age because these kids don't know a
14:32
Speaker 2: world without an iPad, not just an iPhone, an iPad
14:35
Speaker 2: that their entire lives because of the way the public
14:39
Speaker 2: schools are doing things now, their entire lives are on screens.
14:42
Speaker 2: So why wouldn't they, you know, why would they think
14:45
Speaker 2: this this would be any different. So they feel very
14:48
Speaker 2: safe with these devices in ways that they shouldn't, and
14:54
Speaker 2: they're used.
14:54
Speaker 1: To connecting with their friends or whomever online, so it's
14:59
Speaker 1: a slippery I guess.
15:01
Speaker 2: I would.
15:02
Speaker 1: I guess too, that we need to particularly be careful
15:06
Speaker 1: about kids who are I hate this work needy, kids
15:10
Speaker 1: who are like kids who are like maybe don't have
15:12
Speaker 1: a dad who's present or around who might be needy
15:15
Speaker 1: for that kind of attention, or kids who don't have friends,
15:17
Speaker 1: kids who have been left out of their group, kids
15:19
Speaker 1: who feel lonely, that I would assume that those kids
15:22
Speaker 1: reply more susceptible to this kind of thing.
15:26
Speaker 2: You're absolutely right, and it's with any type of mental
15:30
Speaker 2: health issue. In fact, there's a there's a group online
15:34
Speaker 2: right now called seven six'. Four it's literally a satanic
15:38
Speaker 2: cult that is trying to get kids To their ultimate
15:44
Speaker 2: goal is to get is to get these young people
15:46
Speaker 2: to commit suicide on. Camera and if they can't get
15:50
Speaker 2: them to do, that then it's. Right they work them
15:53
Speaker 2: through a bunch of self harm to try to groom
15:57
Speaker 2: them up to the point of committing. Suicide and if
16:01
Speaker 2: they can't get them to commit, suicide then what they'll
16:03
Speaker 2: do is they'll literally trade them back and forth and
16:06
Speaker 2: control them through these self harm mechanisms and the videos
16:09
Speaker 2: that they have on these self harm. Mechanisms and it's
16:12
Speaker 2: important for parents to, understand, like that's not some kind
16:14
Speaker 2: of conspiracy. Theory there are literally satanic groups on The
16:18
Speaker 2: internet that are purposely, hunting like actively hunting for kids
16:25
Speaker 2: with mental health. Issues they're even going so far as
16:28
Speaker 2: to create specialized groups and chat rooms that are specifically
16:33
Speaker 2: for kids dealing with mental health, issues and they will
16:36
Speaker 2: give them good advice and they will help them with
16:38
Speaker 2: their mental health issues in order to gain their, trust
16:42
Speaker 2: and then obviously they flip that into a significantly more sinister.
16:47
Speaker 2: Motive AND i think that's also one of the common
16:50
Speaker 2: misconceptions around the trafficking. Issue is, again it's not somebody
16:56
Speaker 2: following you Through walmart Or target who you, know going
17:00
Speaker 2: to take your kid when you're not. Looking it's it's
17:03
Speaker 2: somebody who is chatting with your child on the phone
17:08
Speaker 2: that you don't know that they have that's connected to
17:12
Speaker 2: the Neighbor's Wi fi on the social media that you
17:15
Speaker 2: don't know they, have and so and they can and
17:18
Speaker 2: they're you, know kids are much better at technology than
17:21
Speaker 2: their parents tend to, be and so their ability to
17:25
Speaker 2: hide this from you and make it virtually undetectable is
17:29
Speaker 2: is is very. Real so helping your kids understand the
17:33
Speaker 2: consequences of what. Happens AND i think in this you,
17:37
Speaker 2: know modern, age, unfortunately one mistake actually can be life
17:42
Speaker 2: changing versus WHEN i grew. Up thank god there were
17:45
Speaker 2: no cell phones and cell phone, cameras because there are
17:49
Speaker 2: things that will go to the grave with. Me but
17:52
Speaker 2: but that's just not the. Case and these kids just
17:55
Speaker 2: have it a lot rougher than we, did.
17:59
Speaker 1: And they're you, know they're encouraged in their groups to
18:02
Speaker 1: put everything online and to do all. That so it's
18:07
Speaker 1: again it's a slippery. Slope it is you have two young,
18:11
Speaker 1: Kids so what are you doing at this point to
18:14
Speaker 1: quote unquote educate and protect?
18:16
Speaker 2: Them so that's probably an unfair question when your dad's
18:21
Speaker 2: a former special operator AND cia, operative you, know that's
18:26
Speaker 2: my ability to lock down my children on an electronic
18:30
Speaker 2: basis is a little a little different than your average.
18:33
Speaker 2: Parents if they have a phone THAT i don't that
18:36
Speaker 2: they THINK i don't know, ABOUT i will know about.
18:38
Speaker 2: IT i will be able to detect. It but one
18:43
Speaker 2: of the things that we, constantly especially with my daughter
18:47
Speaker 2: obviously from the, research shows that just helping her understand
18:53
Speaker 2: her value and her worth is my is really my
18:56
Speaker 2: number one, priority because if she understands her value in her,
19:01
Speaker 2: worth then she will be less likely to settle for
19:03
Speaker 2: something that is that is below her. Uh AND i
19:07
Speaker 2: think that's the problem with many of these these young
19:10
Speaker 2: the young victims that we end up in communication, with
19:13
Speaker 2: is they don't understand their their their true value and
19:20
Speaker 2: so they, they for lack of a better, term sell
19:25
Speaker 2: themselves for for much less than their. Worth so that's
19:29
Speaker 2: that's one of the things that we focus. On and
19:31
Speaker 2: then the other thing that we focus on is, like
19:34
Speaker 2: as an, example there's, this uh kind of like two
19:39
Speaker 2: groups at my at my daughter's. School there's the group
19:43
Speaker 2: whose parents allow them to Play roadblocks and the group
19:46
Speaker 2: whose parents do not allow them to Play. Roadblocks and
19:49
Speaker 2: And i'll be very, blunt good parents do not allow
19:53
Speaker 2: their kids to play roadblocks because that's the number one
19:57
Speaker 2: hunting ground for predators In. America AND i know there's
20:01
Speaker 2: a bunch of parents who will listen to this and
20:03
Speaker 2: be extremely confronted and defensive by that. Statement but it
20:09
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that it's not. True and so the the
20:16
Speaker 2: way that we kind of instead of just, saying, hey
20:19
Speaker 2: you know my, daughter is just, saying, hey, no you
20:21
Speaker 2: can't play this game because it's not really a. Game
20:24
Speaker 2: it's a it's actually a it's actually a. Metaverse AND
20:28
Speaker 2: i think a, parent a lot of parents don't understand.
20:29
Speaker 2: That they just think it's a, game but it's. Not
20:32
Speaker 2: it's actually a think of it as a digital universe
20:36
Speaker 2: of games And roadblocks doesn't, like if you look at
20:42
Speaker 2: the things that THE ceo has, said he doesn't have
20:45
Speaker 2: a problem with a lot of what's happening in, Roadblocks
20:48
Speaker 2: like he says all the quiet parts out loud because
20:50
Speaker 2: evil doesn't know it's. Evil, yeah and, unfortunately and so
20:55
Speaker 2: what we do is we actually will show my daughter
21:00
Speaker 2: the things that happen in, there not the you, know
21:04
Speaker 2: on an age appropriate, level but when when we say, that,
21:08
Speaker 2: oh there's these games where you can re enact, shootings school,
21:12
Speaker 2: shootings because that's, true and we will show her that that.
21:17
Speaker 2: Exists but then we'll because there's videos of this stuff on,
21:21
Speaker 2: YouTube but then we'll we'll watch it first and we'll
21:24
Speaker 2: figure out where we need to cut the, video and
21:26
Speaker 2: then we'll cut it off before she sees things that
21:28
Speaker 2: she shouldn't. See but we try to be very very
21:30
Speaker 2: upfront and honest about why we're why we're saying, no,
21:35
Speaker 2: right it's it's not because we're it's not a. Punishment
21:39
Speaker 2: it's because we're trying to protect. Her and that's where
21:43
Speaker 2: that requires a lot of parental. Education SO i WOULD
21:46
Speaker 2: i would recommend any parent you know listening to this
21:49
Speaker 2: who's struggling with, like DO i allow my kids on social. Media,
21:54
Speaker 2: well the research is all there on exactly what happens
21:57
Speaker 2: on social. Media and there's plenty of YouTube videos that
22:01
Speaker 2: you can go watch to educate, yourself and you can
22:04
Speaker 2: use those to educate your. Children, obviously watch them yourself.
22:07
Speaker 2: First and it's the same thing with these gaming. PLATFORMS
22:10
Speaker 2: i just said that their school shooting reenacts reenactments on.
22:13
Speaker 2: Roadblocks don't take my word for. It go to YouTube
22:16
Speaker 2: and watch the videos that you know said you, know
22:21
Speaker 2: roadblocks is the number one you know predator hunting ground
22:24
Speaker 2: for children right, Now i'm taking my word for. Right
22:26
Speaker 2: there's plenty of information out, there and so it's a
22:29
Speaker 2: matter of educating yourself as to what this. Is AND
22:33
Speaker 2: i think one of the big problems that modern parents
22:37
Speaker 2: face is that my generation grew up with video. Games
22:43
Speaker 2: but it's a very and and those video games in
22:45
Speaker 2: many ways were actually cognitively. Enhancing they were very, good you,
22:51
Speaker 2: know within. Limits what kids experienced today in the gaming
22:56
Speaker 2: world specifically is it's just it's a completely different. Animal
23:02
Speaker 2: we also couldn't communicate across gaming. Platforms now you can do,
23:07
Speaker 2: that so you, know you could play other, players but
23:11
Speaker 2: you couldn't communicate with. Them so you could be a
23:14
Speaker 2: fourteen year old playing against a forty year old and
23:17
Speaker 2: it didn't really. Matter now that forty year old might
23:19
Speaker 2: be there very specifically to font because he's hunting for
23:24
Speaker 2: fourteen year.
23:25
Speaker 1: Olds that and there's, access the excess is increased.
23:30
Speaker 2: Incredibly, right, Right and so that and and the predators
23:34
Speaker 2: are always going to go where the prey. Is.
23:36
Speaker 1: Yeah so when my wife AND i talked to parents
23:40
Speaker 1: about you, know Because i'll ask, us should let my
23:43
Speaker 1: daughter have a, phone should let my daughter be on social?
23:45
Speaker 1: Media we we we say that because of their brain
23:48
Speaker 1: development and all the things that you're talking, about we
23:50
Speaker 1: say not until at least high. School along with they've
23:55
Speaker 1: shown you and we have a list of brainness signs that,
23:57
Speaker 1: says this is how they've proven to you with their
24:00
Speaker 1: behavior for, time that they get, it that they understand
24:03
Speaker 1: because you've done some, education plus that they're mature enough
24:06
Speaker 1: and all. That it's not just an, age it's just
24:09
Speaker 1: it's also it's. There are they? Ready some kids just.
24:13
Speaker 1: AREN'T a lot most kids just, aren't.
24:16
Speaker 2: RIGHT i, mean my daughter would probably be ready well
24:19
Speaker 2: before my. Son would my daughter be ready by the
24:21
Speaker 2: time she's, eighteen my son probably not be ready by
24:23
Speaker 2: the time he's twenty. Five but but the that's that's
24:28
Speaker 2: a very stark, reality is just helping parents to understand
24:32
Speaker 2: that there are with with, it with the way that
24:36
Speaker 2: the modern social media algorithms. Work and this if anybody's
24:41
Speaker 2: interested in the, research you can go go research a
24:43
Speaker 2: company that was bought By facebook Called Dopamine. Labs there's
24:47
Speaker 2: a bunch of, very very bright neurologists who figured out
24:51
Speaker 2: how to algorithmically hack people's. Brains and that's not algorithmically
24:56
Speaker 2: hacking into to place thoughts and things like. That it's
25:00
Speaker 2: algorithmically hacking the attention of the. Brain and when you
25:05
Speaker 2: look at, it like and the reason they called It
25:07
Speaker 2: Dopamine labs was because they mathematically figured out how, to
25:13
Speaker 2: shall we, say maximize the efficacy of the dopamine pathways
25:18
Speaker 2: of the. Brain and they were really good at. It
25:22
Speaker 2: and that was twenty years. Ago so imagine what those
25:26
Speaker 2: algorithms look like now from a brain science. Perspective so
25:31
Speaker 2: if you have parents who, say, oh, well we're we're
25:34
Speaker 2: just you, know teaching our kids to use social media
25:38
Speaker 2: in operation or in moderation while their brains are still
25:42
Speaker 2: in development. Stage that's like, saying you, know we're going
25:45
Speaker 2: to teach our kids to to be able to handle
25:49
Speaker 2: alcohol by increasing their alcohol, tolerance by giving them shots of.
25:55
Speaker 2: VODKA i, mean it's. It you, know one thing does
25:58
Speaker 2: not lead to the. Other and with the, algorithms the
26:03
Speaker 2: algorithms on social media and the dopamine enhancing algorithms on social,
26:06
Speaker 2: media you can't counter. That no human can counter. That
26:10
Speaker 2: if you have a healthy, brain your brain works the
26:13
Speaker 2: way that it's supposed, to you cannot counter. That and
26:18
Speaker 2: that's one of the things THAT i think parents need
26:20
Speaker 2: to understand is there is no. Hack there is no easy.
26:23
Speaker 2: Solution it's it's kind of an either on or, off
26:28
Speaker 2: and it's a binary decision and that's really hard for.
26:31
Speaker 2: Parents so for, me my daughter already knows she doesn't
26:35
Speaker 2: get a smartphone until she turns. Eighteen that's our stance right.
26:39
Speaker 2: Now will that change over time based on new technologies
26:42
Speaker 2: that come, Out maybe it very well, might BECAUSE i
26:47
Speaker 2: do think as a society we are eventually going to
26:50
Speaker 2: get to the bottom of this. Problem we're just in
26:52
Speaker 2: the Wild west right, now. RIGHT i, mean you think about.
26:55
Speaker 2: It when cars came out they didn't have seat, belts
26:57
Speaker 2: we killed a lot of. People eventually we got seat,
26:59
Speaker 2: belts their bags and safety standards and now you, know
27:04
Speaker 2: people don't die in car crashes the way that they used.
27:07
Speaker 2: To and so we will eventually as a society get
27:10
Speaker 2: this figured. Out but until that, happens my, stances my
27:16
Speaker 2: kids don't get smartphones until they turn. Eighteen we Are
27:20
Speaker 2: they currently have bark watches because they're in ski lessons
27:24
Speaker 2: and we want to be able to you, know we
27:26
Speaker 2: want them to be able to call for help if
27:27
Speaker 2: they get lost on the ski. Mountain so we really
27:30
Speaker 2: like the bark watches because there's very little they can
27:33
Speaker 2: do with. That so you can get your kid a.
27:35
Speaker 2: Phone there's a new company that just came out with
27:40
Speaker 2: a phone That's Wi fi, connected but it's a landline
27:44
Speaker 2: and it's called it's called Ten. CAN i believe great
27:48
Speaker 2: concept because you can't text with. It all you can
27:51
Speaker 2: do is call people so all and then you can
27:54
Speaker 2: limit who who your kids can. Call so there's so
27:58
Speaker 2: many ways that modern technology actually makes it so that
28:01
Speaker 2: you're not monitoring your. Children you're reducing the access. Right
28:07
Speaker 2: they can Call, grammar they can call the friend that you, know,
28:10
Speaker 2: well they can call those. People and then the other
28:13
Speaker 2: thing that we have to push back on parents about
28:17
Speaker 2: is this concept of, WELL i want to protect my kids,
28:20
Speaker 2: privacy your kids don't have. Any like when it comes
28:24
Speaker 2: to online, communications your kids should not have any. Privacy
28:29
Speaker 2: you should know everything that they say. Online and there's
28:34
Speaker 2: so many different apps and technologies that parents can. Use
28:39
Speaker 2: if they are going to allow their kids to have
28:41
Speaker 2: access to The, internet and they are going to allow
28:43
Speaker 2: their kids to have access to those types of, things
28:46
Speaker 2: they can start using platforms Like bark or there's a
28:51
Speaker 2: bunch of. Others they can start using them to actually
28:53
Speaker 2: be able to monitor those communications and then look for
28:56
Speaker 2: learning or teaching moments to be able to help their
29:00
Speaker 2: kids be able to navigate it better once they leave the.
29:02
Speaker 1: HOME i think it's hard for parents sometimes, too because
29:05
Speaker 1: they may have a daughter who's, thirteen who looks like she's,
29:08
Speaker 1: eighteen and who has good. Grades they, point, well she
29:11
Speaker 1: has good, grades and, yeah but her brain is still.
29:13
Speaker 1: Immature doesn't matter what her grade is in. Math the,
29:19
Speaker 1: brain an immature brain with all that dope main system
29:22
Speaker 1: being immature is just so ripe for.
29:25
Speaker 2: Exploitation, YEAH i think a good proxy is. Alcohol why
29:32
Speaker 2: do we not allow kids to drink? Alcohol, well it
29:35
Speaker 2: has really nothing to do, with you, know kids getting.
29:38
Speaker 2: Drunk it has to do with the fact that we
29:40
Speaker 2: know there's deleterious effects on the brain the younger they drink,
29:44
Speaker 2: alcohol so we just don't allow. It that's there's very
29:49
Speaker 2: few people who think that's a bad. Idea so parents
29:53
Speaker 2: should be thinking about social media and really online. Communications
29:58
Speaker 2: when we think about social, media think about all those
30:00
Speaker 2: things as they are their online communication. Tools they should
30:03
Speaker 2: be thinking about online communication tools just the same way
30:07
Speaker 2: that they would think about. Alcohol if you wouldn't give
30:10
Speaker 2: your kid or, driving or any of the dangers that
30:15
Speaker 2: face kids. Today so if you wouldn't do that with
30:19
Speaker 2: your if you want to allow you wouldn't give your
30:21
Speaker 2: kids a shot of vodka with dinner or make them
30:24
Speaker 2: A gin and, Tonic, right you. Wouldn't you wouldn't allow
30:28
Speaker 2: your twelve year old to go drive your, vehicle then
30:33
Speaker 2: you probably shouldn't allow them to have access to these
30:36
Speaker 2: devices because they're significantly more.
30:38
Speaker 1: Dangerous we're talking With nick, McKinley who is working very
30:44
Speaker 1: hard for us to help combat child trafficking with all
30:50
Speaker 1: of what you've, said is there anything that gives you
30:53
Speaker 1: hope that we're going to get through, this over, it beyond. It.
31:00
Speaker 2: YES i think that with the data capabilities that we
31:03
Speaker 2: now have and the MODERN ai, systems which you don't
31:08
Speaker 2: have a lot of positives and negatives to, THEM i
31:11
Speaker 2: have a lot of hope that we actually are going
31:13
Speaker 2: to get to the bottom of this. Problem there we.
31:16
Speaker 2: Will there's there's few places WHERE i think we actually
31:19
Speaker 2: need more regulation in the from THE us, government but
31:22
Speaker 2: this is one of. Those. Right we do need some
31:24
Speaker 2: regulation around The, internet around access to, pornography around access
31:30
Speaker 2: to commercial sexual, activities, uh and around social. Media so
31:35
Speaker 2: this is going to. Happen the question, is obviously the
31:39
Speaker 2: social media and big tech companies are going to have
31:41
Speaker 2: an immune response to, it so they're going to they're
31:43
Speaker 2: going to push back pretty. Hard so it won't happen
31:45
Speaker 2: as fast as we. Want BUT i do think it
31:47
Speaker 2: will happen only because the public is going to is
31:52
Speaker 2: going to demand it from our. Politicians and you, know
31:55
Speaker 2: we have a lot of politicians in office right now
31:58
Speaker 2: who don't underst and how the internet. Works if you
32:01
Speaker 2: remember that congressional hearing With Mark zuckerberg where you, had you,
32:06
Speaker 2: know congressman with flip phones Asking Mark zuckerberg how How
32:11
Speaker 2: facebook made. MONEY i, mean talk about being unprepared for a.
32:16
Speaker 2: Hearing you don't even understand the most basic. Thing and
32:20
Speaker 2: so for, uh, once once we get kind of a
32:27
Speaker 2: younger generation of congressmen and senators in there who understand
32:31
Speaker 2: what these dangers, are why they're, important and might even
32:33
Speaker 2: have personal experience with, THEM i think we're going to
32:36
Speaker 2: start to see some regulations happen in uh in the
32:39
Speaker 2: tech world that's actually going to make things a lot.
32:41
Speaker 2: Safer SO i am hopeful we're just in this interim
32:45
Speaker 2: time Right we're On we're on one rim of The grand,
32:49
Speaker 2: canyon and safety is on the other, end and we've
32:51
Speaker 2: got to get through that before uh, so before it's an.
32:56
Speaker 2: Issue so your listener's grandkids or me be great grandkids
33:01
Speaker 2: probably won't have these, problems but we've got to work
33:06
Speaker 2: to solve them between now and.
33:08
Speaker 1: That on the on the positive, side there are a
33:11
Speaker 1: lot of schools now that don't allow phones in, school
33:14
Speaker 1: which may it's just like not that big a, deal
33:16
Speaker 1: but it is a big deal because it was distracting.
33:19
Speaker 1: KIDS i, mean there's a lot of mischief, happening and
33:21
Speaker 1: so in fact they don't have a phone in. School
33:23
Speaker 1: is it's only a, step but it's a step in
33:25
Speaker 1: the right direction of putting some, restraints, constraints boundaries on
33:31
Speaker 1: on phones and social media and all that.
33:33
Speaker 2: Stuff, Yeah AND i think that's good because then as
33:36
Speaker 2: it becomes more socially, NORMALIZED i think a lot of
33:39
Speaker 2: parents with the problem becomes is they don't want their
33:42
Speaker 2: kid to be the kid who's left out, everybody all
33:45
Speaker 2: the other kids are doing, this and now my kid's
33:47
Speaker 2: going to be the kid who's not doing. It and
33:48
Speaker 2: that's just that's just the hard part about being a.
33:51
Speaker 2: Parent but as it becomes more socially, normalized then we're
33:54
Speaker 2: going to see we're going to see less and less
33:57
Speaker 2: of this. Behavior and so school's leading doing things like you,
34:00
Speaker 2: know you don't you know you can't have a phone at,
34:03
Speaker 2: school or you can't have a phone in the. Classroom
34:06
Speaker 2: that makes it a lot easier for the parent to
34:08
Speaker 2: say you can't have a phone at the dinner. Table.
34:11
Speaker 1: Yeah tell our listeners About Deliver.
34:15
Speaker 2: Fund So Deliver fund we're a, private nonprofit intelligence, organization
34:22
Speaker 2: so we work with over eight thousand law enforcement officers
34:25
Speaker 2: across The United states to provide them with the data
34:27
Speaker 2: and the technology they need in order to hunt down
34:30
Speaker 2: these human traffickers and these. Predators because you, know when
34:34
Speaker 2: we talk about human, trafficking we think about the victims
34:37
Speaker 2: and we think about the, customers and that's a whole,
34:39
Speaker 2: other whole other podcast. Conversation but you can't have a
34:43
Speaker 2: victim of human trafficking if you don't have a human.
34:45
Speaker 2: Trafficker it's the single point of. Failure and so that's
34:48
Speaker 2: where we focus all of our resources. On it is
34:51
Speaker 2: helping law enforcement figure out who the human trafficker is
34:54
Speaker 2: at scale so that they can remove the human trafficker
34:58
Speaker 2: from the. Equation so there's nobody to reach out to
35:00
Speaker 2: your daughter on on you, Know instagram in the first.
35:04
Speaker 1: Place is there ways that my listeners can support what you're.
35:08
Speaker 2: Doing, yes you can just go to deliverfund dot. Org
35:12
Speaker 2: that's deliver as in delivering the mail D e L
35:15
Speaker 2: i V E r fund F u N d dot.
35:19
Speaker 2: Org you can also take we have a Human trafficking
35:23
Speaker 2: class online where you can get a you, know human
35:28
Speaker 2: trafficking ONE o one certification where you understand exactly what
35:32
Speaker 2: human trafficking is. Uh and so there's resources for parents.
35:36
Speaker 2: There if any of the parents listening happen to be
35:38
Speaker 2: a law enforcement officer who is in this, fight you
35:42
Speaker 2: were the reason that we, exist and so please reach
35:44
Speaker 2: out through our law enforcement resources right at deliverfund dot
35:48
Speaker 2: org and we'll be happy to get you access to our.
35:52
Speaker 2: Systems and we are one hundred percent donor. Funded we
35:55
Speaker 2: do not take money from the. GOVERNMENT i think everybody
35:58
Speaker 2: understands why now the government can take that money back
36:01
Speaker 2: anytime they. Want but, also you, know when it comes
36:05
Speaker 2: to the child trafficking, issue THE i, mean look at
36:10
Speaker 2: a lot of what has happened In. Congress. Uh there's
36:13
Speaker 2: there's plenty of congressmen uh and senators who have been
36:18
Speaker 2: involved in this kind of. Activity and we don't want
36:21
Speaker 2: them to be able to try to dictate to us
36:24
Speaker 2: what we can and cannot. Do. Uh and, so and
36:27
Speaker 2: we are operations with you, know in conjunction with law,
36:31
Speaker 2: enforcement have taken down some some rather rather big. Players
36:35
Speaker 2: we were actually a part of helping a law, firm
36:38
Speaker 2: as an, example go After Jeffrey. Epstein. Uh so we
36:44
Speaker 2: people get distracted by the big players, though right they think, like,
36:48
Speaker 2: oh my daughter's gonna be targeted By Jeffrey. Epstein, no
36:50
Speaker 2: you're You're your daughter's gonna be targeted by the human
36:54
Speaker 2: trafficker who lives two states, away and it's gonna work
36:58
Speaker 2: to groom and manipulate, her to keep her away from
37:01
Speaker 2: you and get her to essentially run away to. Him
37:04
Speaker 2: and and they're really good at, it and they've got
37:07
Speaker 2: nothing but time and and there's almost no costs associated with,
37:10
Speaker 2: it so we don't take government. Money we're completely funded
37:14
Speaker 2: by the generosity of. Donors that's what makes all this technology.
37:17
Speaker 1: Work and people could find the online Human trafficking class
37:22
Speaker 1: at at deliver. Fund ye it's a, fund.
37:28
Speaker 2: And then you can find us on all the social
37:30
Speaker 2: platforms just at deliver. Fund thank you.
37:34
Speaker 1: For what you're. Doing i'm glad there's someone out. There
37:38
Speaker 1: there's lots of, you but but there's BUT i think
37:40
Speaker 1: you're spearheading a lot of this with your Deliver fund
37:43
Speaker 1: and all. That so thank you so much for what you're.
37:44
Speaker 1: Doing it's one of those topics that parents don't like
37:47
Speaker 1: to talk, about AND i think we're not doing a
37:51
Speaker 1: good enough job protecting our. Kids so thank you so
37:54
Speaker 1: much for what you're. Doing and thanks for coming on raising.
37:57
Speaker 1: Dolls they appreciate you giving up your time.
37:58
Speaker 2: Today, well thanks for having me and helping us spread the.
38:01
Speaker 1: Word, well that was an interesting but sobering conversation With
38:05
Speaker 1: nick McKinley about child. TRAFFICKING i hope you enjoyed. IT
38:09
Speaker 1: i hope it was useful if you're interested in his.
38:13
Speaker 1: Data if you're interested in that online home traffic trafficking,
38:18
Speaker 1: class go to deliver fund dot org and you can
38:23
Speaker 1: find it. There it sounds. Interesting i'm gonna watch it
38:24
Speaker 1: myself and also go there for other information he has
38:28
Speaker 1: about the things we're talking about. Today it always points
38:32
Speaker 1: to the fact that we need to educate our. Kids
38:35
Speaker 1: we also need to set boundaries with our kids and
38:39
Speaker 1: not to allow them to have things like phones and
38:41
Speaker 1: social media and all that just because everybody else. Does
38:45
Speaker 1: i've talked about in previous, podcasts BUT i think we're getting.
38:51
Speaker 1: THERE a lot of schools now don't love phones in
38:54
Speaker 1: school in, classes AND i think that's a. STEP i
38:57
Speaker 1: think people have heard how damaging that is to their,
39:00
Speaker 1: attention their, focus all, that even, Socially so listen to
39:06
Speaker 1: this podcast pass on to people if you think it
39:08
Speaker 1: would be. Helpful people especially who have preteen and teenage
39:12
Speaker 1: girls who are the most vulnerable to child. TRAFFICKING i
39:17
Speaker 1: will be back here as always with the brand new
39:19
Speaker 1: podcast in a. Week check out those my show notes
39:24
Speaker 1: for The Deliver fund. Link just go To Dr Tim
39:29
Speaker 1: jordan dot com and that the podcasts are there and
39:34
Speaker 1: also information that will be on my show notes anything.
39:38
Speaker 1: Else oh, Yeah, also we still have some spots open
39:41
Speaker 1: in our summer, camps so go to my website At
39:44
Speaker 1: dr Tim jordan dot com look for information about our
39:47
Speaker 1: one week long summer. Camps the first weekass grade school
39:50
Speaker 1: and middle school, girls the second weeks middle school and
39:53
Speaker 1: high school, girls twenty five of, each so only fifty
39:56
Speaker 1: girls at the camp at a, time which is. Great
39:59
Speaker 1: it's nice and. Small they learned a lot in a,
40:02
Speaker 1: week talking about their, lives, talking listening to each, other making,
40:06
Speaker 1: connections learning how to, connect learning about their self, talk
40:10
Speaker 1: learning about dealing with their. Stresses so just go To
40:13
Speaker 1: Dr Tim jordan dot com for information about. That i'll
40:16
Speaker 1: be back here in a week with a brand new.
40:18
Speaker 1: Topic thanks so much for stopping, by And i'll see
40:21
Speaker 1: you that