Latest / Foul Territory / Do managers need to be former players? + Bobby Valentine joins FT

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Do managers need to be former players? + Bobby Valentine joins FT · Foul Territory

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the athletic poll to 99 players about
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: manager experience in pro ball, about playing experience in pro ball.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: And the article in The Athletic from Chad Jennings is
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: kicked off with an explanation of Tony Vitello and how
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: he has been received in the major leagues. The record
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: is not pretty for the Giants. How much of that
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: has to do with the manager versus roster construction? We
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: can have a long conversation about that. Some of the
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: quotes in this article gave a lot of respect to
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Vitello for the way that he commands a room and
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: the way that he can speak to a team. The
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: other side of it is just exploring how players feel
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: from a comfort perspective in terms of someone coming to
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: a sport without coaching experience or playing experience at the
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: major league level or even at the pro level here
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: with someone like Vitello. It just starts that way. I
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: want to go through the poll itself if we can
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: show the results because it's really about the entire perspective
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: of the sport and how we might get more from
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: the non-playing sector that enter the manager role down the
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: stretch here, not down the stretch, over the next course
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: of the next decade, say, as the game has definitely
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: tilted itself sometimes towards number levers. So the poll says
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: 83 out of 99 polled would feel comfortable playing for
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: a manager who never played pro ball. 15 said no.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: One said, not sure. Okay. There's context to this too.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: So the article talked about Nick Castellanos being somewhat vocal
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: about how he was not loving Rob Thompson and Kevin
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Long when he was with the Phillies, because he didn't
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: feel like they had big league playing experience and he
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: couldn't relate to them. Even though both have extensive coaching
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: experience in the major leagues, it's extensive, extensive coaching experience
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: and both played pro ball. So it's not like they
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: don't know what it's like to be, earning a living
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: playing baseball and then be told, no, you're not good
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: enough and go home. Because that's some of it for
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: some of these players. Hey, what's the comfort level with
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: someone that hasn't been there before? Kratz, you start us
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: off since you've spent tons of time in the minors
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: and the majors. You've seen this. What do you think?
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: If you were asked, right, and you're not anonymous like
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: all the players that were on here, what would you say?
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Not just the yes or no, but then why?
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: But there's always going to be a but there. And
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: I think there's two ends of the spectrum. The ends
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: of the spectrum are Tony Vitello, zero big league experience,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: jumps right in from pro ball to exactly what Nick
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Castellanos said. Well, I can't respect that guy's opinion. Neither
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: is right, in my opinion. Neither is right. Tony Vitello
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: needs to be able to understand– he doesn't even know
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: what to tip guys. Like he doesn't even know how
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: to like take care of the clubhouse guys or because
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: he's never been in it. It's not anything against him.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Nick can't sit there and go, I'm not listening to anybody.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: It's never, that's never hold the stick, held the stick
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: under the brightest lights. Like you, you can't, you can't
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: do that. But that's, that's the debate with a lot
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: of things that we could talk about today. To me,
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: the reason that I feel like one day I could
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: be a really good manager is has zero to do
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: with what I did in the big leagues. Because if
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: that's the case, I got no shot. Albert Pujols is
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: going to be a great manager. The reason Albert Pujols,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: there's some like a little trepidation. How's he going to
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: connect to the seven bottom players on the roster? He's
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: never been those guys. He's always been a star. He
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: was a rookie, I think in 2001, 25 years ago.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: And he was in the all-star game. He's in 300
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: for 10 years. Some of those guys just don't necessarily
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: understand what it's like to be optioned, understand what it's
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: like to be optioned and doing well, but then come
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: back and then be expected to play a different position,
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: all that stuff. The manager role is all about how
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: you make the people feel on the roster that are
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: taking the at-bats and throwing the pitches. Because if you
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: don't make those guys feel a certain way and each
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: of them needs to feel differently, then you're cooked as
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: a manager. Whether you're a good team or you're not,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: your role as a manager is to get the most
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: out of the guys that you're given, and if you
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: don't succeed, you're gone. Yeah, spot on.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: I've had a manager before who's played long years and
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: didn't really say much to us. He'd just let us
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: go play, and you're looking for a little reassurance, but
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, you're professional enough to
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: do it, and then you have managers that are all day,
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: every day, talking to you, making sure this and that.
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: It's your preference, really. And I think I would feel
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: comfortable whether it's a guy that's been.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: There before or not.
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: So, yes, my answer would be, yeah, I would be
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: totally comfortable with having Tony there and seeing his philosophies
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: over a year's span. And he's going to change them
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: next year. Like, I'm not saying all of them, but
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: there might be some he tinkers with that, you know,
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: he's like, oh, I don't know if that worked. Or
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: he might have meetings with the players. Hey, talk to me.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: Be honest. frank with me with all these decisions that
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: I've made and what we went through in practices and
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: spring training and in the games. Is there something that
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: you feel that you got to talk about where you're like, ah,
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: we can get away with or we should get rid
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: of or we should keep?
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: No, that's so true. But I can poke holes in
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: any hiring.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, the Rangers are bringing Bruce Bochy back. He's not
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: connecting with the young players. He's not. Nope. World Series.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: The Giants hire Tony Vitello. And when they hired him,
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: I remember when they hired him, I was skeptical of
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: it just because of how much of a difference it
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: is to be the man on campus, to be only
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: connected to these guys, some of them for three years,
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: max four years, some of them mercenaries brought in to
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: play for your college program for one year, and he
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: developed his style that he wanted, and that takes years
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: to develop. and have people buy into, but because Buster
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Posey signed it, because Buster Posey did the vetting and
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: he's the one that brought him in, I'm like, I'm
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: on board. I like it. And just because it doesn't
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: work for Tony doesn't mean it was 100% his fault
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: or that nobody else from college can ever do it.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: It's really going to be what's the fallback, what's the
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: fallout from this season that when players start talking, when
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: players start going to other organizations, because there's been plenty
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: of managers that have not done well, but have had
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: spurts of doing well in the big leagues. And the
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: reality is, how does the overall picture look? Do they
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: get another job? Because players say that guy was awesome.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: He connected so well with every single guy in our
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: lineup and got the most out of us, whether we
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: were really good in the standings or we just did
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: really well for the team we had.
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: The postseason run is heating up for Major League Baseball teams. Kratzy,
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: you can go see all these games, all the important games.
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: Whatever your team is, they have a great chance, almost
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: all of them, at being alive for the postseason. So
• 7:22
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• 7:25
  Speaker 4: whatever game you want, whatever matchup you want to try
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: to help cheer your team on to the postseason.
• 7:30
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• 7:34
  Speaker 2: your team's either in the playoffs or the team they're
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: playing has a chance in the playoffs. So all these
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: games in September, you got to get on there, get
• 7:42
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• 7:45
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• 7:49
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• 7:51
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• 7:53
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• 7:58
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• 8:01
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• 8:10
  Speaker 3: Solid, solid argument. I give a comparison and I know
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: he's not a baseball guy, but Greg Shiano from Rutgers
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: went to Tampa Bay Buccaneers and he was done within
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: two years, three years. And he's like, man, and I
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: know he said it before. He said one of the
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: toughest decisions I made and I probably should have stayed.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: And then he went back to Rutgers. Like, There's guys
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: that can keep going and that could do it. But,
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: you know, NFL, college, two totally different monsters. MLB, college,
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: two totally different monsters at the end. And I'm not
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: saying that to put down Tony, but some guys just
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: don't have that in them to go from college to
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: professional sport.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: And I think there's a reason that the best businesses, leaders,
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: organizations go to like athletes and they're like, okay, Well,
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: what makes this guy a good leader? So if you're
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: not asking questions, if you're not willing to improve, change,
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: adapt to the environment around you, to the people around
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: you to get the most out of those people, you're
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: definitely cooked as a manager. And maybe because we're putting
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Tony Vitello on the burner here, and this is who
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: we're talking about because Drew Butera– Drew Butera, sorry– With
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: the Nationals. Blake Butera. Drew Katcher. Probably could be a manager,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: but he's been a coach everywhere. But they've had what's
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: considered a successful season. It's really about how you make
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: the people around you better and not about your ego.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: And I think the mantra or the view from the
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: outside was maybe Tony's got a little bit too much
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: of an ego for the big leagues. Maybe because... He's
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: out there and boisterous. And we had him on the
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: show in spring training, and he said, we were we
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: asked him about you know jumping into the stands after
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: he said you work an entire season to get to
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: that point he's like jumping in the stands was just
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: like it wasn't choreographed it was just what I felt
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: like I had to do because of the excitement of
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: accomplishing the goal that we set out for so You
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: got to take your previous opinions away from whatever it
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: is that you think somebody's going to be and evaluate
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: what's happened in the season and have they improved in
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: certain areas from a relationship standpoint. And then from there,
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: the players just got to do well.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: College coaches, and it's changing a little bit with NIL,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: but college coaches are the show sometimes, right? Recruiting is
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: still a thing. I know it. you know, depends on
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: money now too. Although the money's not as much in baseball.
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: I know.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: But my point is even for college baseball, right? Tony
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Vitello was a brand there. I want to play for
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Tony Vitello. I know that guy, right? You're a kid
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: and the money's the same at whatever school you go to. Oh,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I know that guy. That guy wins. He goes viral.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: He seems like he commands the boys. He seems like
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: a good time. I want to go play for him, right?
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: He's got the mix that I'm looking for. that's branding
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: that you don't need as much in major league baseball,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: but not nothing.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: If, if the two offers are the same and you're
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: looking and you're like, I don't want to play for
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: that manager. And you do want to play for that manager.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: You're right.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Like in major league baseball, is it a factor? Not
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: nearly as much, but in college crats, it's a huge factor.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Huge factor.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: Excuse me.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Absolutely. Huge factor. But when you're saying that, I'm like, okay,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: who would I, if somebody called me and was like, Hey,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: I'm going to sign with, The Cincinnati Reds. Hey, their
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: new manager is this guy. What did you think of him?
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: There's only a few guys that I've ever been around
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: in baseball as managers that I'd be like, what's your
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: other choice? And in my mind, I'm thinking of three managers.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: And I won't say their names, but I've talked about
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: them a certain way since I've been on here. And
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: it has very little to do with them as game
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: callers or how they handle situations. It's all about whether
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: or not that dude was a turd and treated people
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: around him like turds. And that's the reality of it.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: So I don't think Tony Vitello is at all in
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: that category. I think the team, I think the free
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: agent would look at it and go, golly, I hit
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: and I hit homers. I don't want to go to
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: San Francisco. I can't hit homers. Not because Tony Vitello
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: is going to take homers away from me. Look, like
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Rafael Devers is, Rafael Devers and Willie Adamas are the
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: first two dudes in like 25 years or something to
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: hit 30 plus homers in san francisco or as a
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: as a giant for an entire year like so that's
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: what i think of as a player like rarely is
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: a manager such a turd where you're like not playing
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: for him unless you have your own personal beef with
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: that guy.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Can i ask you guys just a quick poll at
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: the finish line here show of hands would you because
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: this came up in the story Some guys had a
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: problem with this. This was their line. Would you be
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: okay with a manager that has not played past the
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: high school level? Like forget pro, didn't play college ball,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: has no experience playing at a level beyond high school.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Show of hands if you'd be okay with a manager
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: who did not play above high school baseball. So you
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: need at least college or pro ball experience.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: How much did he coach? I don't... Right.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: I know that this is in a vacuum right now.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: I would be a little skeptical, for sure.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, we need a yes or no.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: I would not be comfortable.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: He coached a lot. He's coached in the minors a lot,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: and now he's going to get a chance. And he's
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: been a base coach.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't be comfortable, but I would be like, all right,
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: let's see what this guy's got. I'd be a little weary,
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: I guess.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: The dude just walks like he can't... He walks like
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: a NARP. All right, I like that. Non-athletic real person.
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: Like.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: He walks like Todd on the basketball court. Terrible.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: 1,000-point score.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: No, no, no. I don't think I would feel comfortable
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: with that. Now, that doesn't mean he couldn't win me over.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean he could be my bench coach for
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: two years and be like, that guy is an absolute unit.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: He knows exactly what he's talking about. I'm on board
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: with it.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: It's like Scotty Braun going to manage a team.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: It's like Scotty Braun shooting a jump.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: You don't want to.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: That's what it's like. You don't want me managing a team. No,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: he's ready. But that's a great example. Scott, you know
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: the game. Like, you know the game more than anybody
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: that I've ever met that hasn't played. You don't have
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: an ego about it, but you know what you have. So,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: to me, that comes across, and that's confidence, and that's
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: what you need as a manager. You need to have
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: confidence that I get my lane, but I also understand
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: what's going on here.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Yep. I think for me, me, right? And I have
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: nothing for this since I didn't play, but I wouldn't
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: want me managing a person like me. Me in a
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: front office, great, cool, get it. In a dugout, leading
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: the boys, it would be tough. So I'm with you.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: I get you guys.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: We couldn't have your hair in the front office. We
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: couldn't have your hair in the front office. If that
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: was there, it would be intimidating. People would be like,
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: who's that dude with the biceps and the really nice hair? No, no, no, no.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: He doesn't wear quarter zips?
• 15:25
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: He doesn't wear quarter zips?
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Why is this guy– This guy's out.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: He's not in the track. He's gone. He's making us
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: look bad.
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  Speaker 1: These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: or prevent any disease. The great, entertaining, insightful Bobby Valentine
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: joining us right now. Bobby V, it's great to have
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: you on. You've got some good ones here with you,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Eric Kratz and Todd Frazier with you too. we brought
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: you on to chat, of course, at least to start here,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: about 9-11 and 25 years since that time. So I
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: wanted to get right into that with you and what
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: this day has been like already for you to think
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: back to that moment.
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: Well, I've thought back about it most every day since then. But,
• 17:15
  Speaker 5: you know, when you have this type of anniversary and
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: so many people calling and so many people well-wishing and
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: so many thoughts being revisited. It's a heavy day. It's
• 17:29
  Speaker 5: heavy on my mind and heavy on my spirit. And
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: I'm just wishing everyone the best that is still trying
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: to heal those wounds that were inflicted 9-11 25 years ago.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: I want to talk still about 9-11. You know, the game, Piazza,
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: hitting that home run, man. Just go back to how
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: surreal that kind of was and how, you know, baseball
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: was an afterthought. And then all of a sudden when
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: it came back on, it kind of drew a lot
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: of people together for sure.
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, that time was a different time. People,
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: tough guys like you guys and the guys in my
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: locker room and the people who lived in New York
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: were experiencing fear, real fear. fear of their lives, fear
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: of the unknown. And how do you deal with that?
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: How do you now tell guys, put on a costume,
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: run out there on the field, entertain, put on a
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: good face, put on a good show, we'll shower, we'll leave,
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: go home to our families, everything will be okay. The
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: bravery that the Braves showed by getting on a plane
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: and coming to New York, and you know Shea Stadium,
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: how that was a thoroughfare for planes every game you
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: ever were there. And the New York Met guys who
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: had the security of their homes after being in Pittsburgh
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: and coming home and then being with their family and
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: hearing the idiot manager say, hey, guys, let's have a
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: practice because we're thinking about playing again. And we're even
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: thinking about playing in New York. When you talk about
• 19:12
  Speaker 5: leadership and you talk about managing a group of people,
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: you know, that was the biggest challenge I ever had
• 19:18
  Speaker 5: in my life.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: That's what we just talked about and how much you
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: heard about us talking about what managers really mean to players. Man,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: couldn't have put you more in the forefront of what
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: it takes to deal with something like this. That game specifically,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: and I want to get to so many other things.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: I watched the doc on MLB Network the other night,
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: but that game specifically, when you show up to the stadium,
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: What was your thought when you know that there's going
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: to be, and you're privy to probably a lot more
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: information than even the players. And you had to hold
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: things back from the players. The fact that there's snipers or, or,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: or security on the roof and you're looking around, like
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: even chills, some of the stuff that you guys are
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: talking about, like just brought back memories for me. What
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: was it for you?
• 20:05
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: Well, you remember Shea stadium. It was an old building
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: and I got there in the morning and, It was
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: kind of quiet driving in, even though there was checkpoints,
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: but then I saw the metal detectors. Then I went
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: to my office and I couldn't get into my office
• 20:18
  Speaker 5: until the dog that was sniffing in the locker and
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: into my bathroom, you know, cleaned it out and said
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: it was okay for me to come in. And then
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: with the military people and the uniform people and the
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: staging people, you know, it was an event that was
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: created to bring people a bit of joy in people's life.
• 20:40
  Speaker 5: It was more of a Broadway production going in than
• 20:44
  Speaker 5: it was really a baseball game. Hey, we're going to
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: have Liza Minnelli. We're going to have the national anthem.
• 20:49
  Speaker 5: We're going to have, you know, the, the, the first responders.
• 20:54
  Speaker 5: But it became a baseball game. And, and when we
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: went down two to one and you saw the innings
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: ticking away and we were playing against the Braves who
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: we never beat wherever we played them. you know, the
• 21:07
  Speaker 5: game started taking precedent. And then when the superhero came up,
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: when Mike walks to the plate and he takes the
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: first pitch and we go, Mike, what are you doing?
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: He loved taking the first pitch, but this one's right
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: down the middle. And we're thinking, oh gosh, we have
• 21:23
  Speaker 5: a chance to tie this game or more. And the
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: next one that's down the middle winds up in orbit.
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: And Everyone says, you know, you couldn't script it. You
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: could script it. If you're God, you could script that one.
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: And God scripted that game. And the world changed a
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: little after that.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: 100%. I've been in COVID games where there's no fans.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: I've been in Game 7 of the World Series. Fan interaction,
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: fan feeling, you feel that. Tell us about what you
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: felt from the fans that night in New York. People...
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: people that were directly affected by what was going on
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: because the smoke was still smoldering. The fire was still smoldering.
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Well, how do you feel fear? How do you
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: feel uncertainty? That's what was in everyone's mind and heart,
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: whether you were an usher or a fan or a
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: player or a guy with a long gun up on
• 22:22
  Speaker 5: the top of the stadium, the uncertainty of what was
• 22:25
  Speaker 5: going on. And There was, in fact, a lot of
• 22:29
  Speaker 5: talk and a lot of discussion of whether or not
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: we even should be doing this, right? A couple of
• 22:34
  Speaker 5: miles from an airport, a couple of miles from ground zero.
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: New York, what are you kidding? You want to put
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: a target on something? How about a stadium of 40,000
• 22:43
  Speaker 5: people when the national attention is on it? Wow, what
• 22:47
  Speaker 5: a target that is. So those discussions, not only with
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: the fans, but of course with the players, were constant.
• 22:54
  Speaker 5: So You could feel the trepidation from the fans. You
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: could feel the uncertainty. They didn't know whether to scream, yell, boo, yay,
• 23:05
  Speaker 5: or just sit there and watch until Mike hit the
• 23:08
  Speaker 5: home run. And then they knew exactly what to do.
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: And God, what a transformation of a feel in that environment.
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: What a transformation. It was unbelievable.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Such great words. I watched the doc last night, like
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: I said, and correct me if I'm wrong, you guys
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: were in Pittsburgh and then you bust back to New York, correct?
• 23:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: And the thing you said in the doc was the
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: feeling that you felt and how silent the bust was
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: when you came around the corner on whatever highway you
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: guys were on and saw what you saw. Can you
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: tell us how that is just tattooed on your mind? Like, again,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: I got chills again after thinking about how you stated
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: it in the doc.
• 23:57
  Speaker 5: Well, again, nothing scripted, right? And we were on that
• 24:03
  Speaker 5: road before, I mean, in a passenger car. We never
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: took a bus from Pittsburgh. So we were never all
• 24:08
  Speaker 5: together in the same place. And I remember telling a
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: couple of the young guys who were on the bus, hey,
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: you know, when we come around this next bend, we'll
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: be able to get a view of Manhattan. So, you know,
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: take a peek. Let's see what we see. And what
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: we saw was horrifying. We didn't see the buildings. We
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: saw a cloud of smoke. We didn't see the Empire
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: State Building in upper Manhattan. We just saw this ridiculous
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: cloud hanging over Manhattan. And what I said in that documentary,
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: and I heard it last night myself, and I love
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: the words that It gave the sound of silence new meaning,
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: you know, because from that moment on, and it was
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: about an hour to Shea Stadium, there wasn't a word.
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: The wives weren't talking with the husbands. The players weren't
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: talking with each other. The traveling secretary wasn't talking to
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: the bus driver. It was absolute silence. And that was unifying. Yeah.
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: that we've been through all this and we saw it
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: on TV and all of a sudden it was real
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: to us that we're seeing with our own eyes and
• 25:17
  Speaker 5: we're all seeing it together. That's the reason these guys,
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: and that was the greatest group of guys that have
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: ever been assembled in my mind, the veterans and the
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: young people, the foreign guys and the domestic guys. I mean,
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: it was a special group of guys who bonded because
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: we had all of these bonds. Hey, and you know,
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: one quick other thing, you saw the doctor. The guy, C.J. Quackenbush,
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: the kid came to the All-Star game with his father, right?
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: Last game ever together. And Chris Quackenbush lent us his
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: plane when a group of us were going from Miami
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: to Washington, D.C. to see George W. in the White House,
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: who I worked for in Texas. And he said, I
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: could bring a group of guys up in one of
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: our off days. So we used Chris's plane to go up.
• 26:05
  Speaker 5: Chris was with his team and with us uh, the all-stars, uh,
• 26:10
  Speaker 5: in Seattle. Chris goes to work in the 104th floor.
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: He goes down, uh, on 9-11. That, that was a unifying, uh, feeling,
• 26:20
  Speaker 5: even though Johnny and I and others, uh, had close
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: relatives and friends who were there that this Quackenbush guy
• 26:30
  Speaker 5: connected us even more so. So, um, it, Todd Zale
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: did a really good job putting that whole thing together and, um,
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: You know, 25 years is a long time. But, you know,
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: if you're suffering for 25 years, it seems like an eternity.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: You guys, you, your team, and I'm not saying everybody,
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: but you got out there in the community during that time.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: And you guys did food drives and packed things and
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: just went out to the community. I think it even
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: said you guys went down to Ground Zero just to
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: talk to the police officers and firemen. Do you feel
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: like that's because you're a very very involved community philanthropist
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: throughout your career, is this the best thing that you've
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: ever done and been a part of and yet still
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: maybe felt like you didn't do enough?
• 27:21
  Speaker 5: Todd, spot on. Thanks. I tried to do everything I could,
• 27:25
  Speaker 5: as did the players. And remember, we were directed by
• 27:29
  Speaker 5: Jay Horowitz. Jay Horowitz was a community-minded person who was
• 27:33
  Speaker 5: our PR director. He was getting the calls. He was
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: getting the letters. He was directing us, hey, can you
• 27:40
  Speaker 5: get to this firehouse? Hey, do we have a few
• 27:42
  Speaker 5: guys to go to this elementary school? Hey, we're going
• 27:45
  Speaker 5: to have a party on Halloween at the restaurant. Can
• 27:48
  Speaker 5: we get some guys to show up? We were really,
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: really involved. But, you know, you don't just go out
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: on the street and say, hey, we're here. We were
• 27:57
  Speaker 5: directed where to go. And it was because of Jay
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: and his direction that we touched so many people. And again...
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: We got a lot of smiles when we were out there,
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: but we got more tears than we got smiles. So
• 28:11
  Speaker 5: it was tough on the guys. You know, usually you
• 28:13
  Speaker 5: go and you're given the autograph and the kids are
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: smiling and everything's cool. Most of these places, memorial services
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: and firehouses and schools and knocks on the doors to homes,
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: there are a lot more tears than there were smiles.
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: And once again, a credit to the guys that they persevered.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: Okay. It's been absolutely incredible hearing these stories and everything.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: It's just, it's touching too. I mean, what you guys,
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: what everybody went through, the impact it's had on everybody.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: I want to, I want to talk a little bit
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: about coaching now, move, just switch gears a little bit.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Yes. My question to.
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: You is we've had a poll about, you know, Tony
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: Vitello and his coaching and his, the way he coaches people.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: The poll was talking about basically, you know, Guy with
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: no professional experience, would you be comfortable having a manager
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: like that? And I want to see what your opinion
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: is on that about being a manager in the big leagues.
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: Do you think a guy needs to go through the
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: bushes and the grind to be a manager? Do you
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: think somebody, you know, maybe not a superstar or who's
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: played before can be a manager in the big leagues?
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: I would love to hear your opinion.
• 29:27
  Speaker 6: Hmm.
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: You know, in 1973, I played for a guy named
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: Bobby Winkles. He went right from Arizona State to the
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: California Angels and was a manager. And I saw how
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: difficult it was for him then. Now, because there are
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: more college players and there's more notoriety in his brand,
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: I think it's a little easier. But remember, coaching is giving, right?
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: And if you're going to give, the person on the
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: other end has to be willing to receive. In the
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: major leagues, Because the time is so short and time
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: is of the essence. I got to get hit today.
• 30:04
  Speaker 5: I've got to, you know, make a strike today that
• 30:08
  Speaker 5: receiving and puts up walls, right? You guys know you
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: guys are players. Oh, I'm going to let this go
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: in this ear and out the other. I don't trust
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: that guy. I'm not listening to that nonsense. Well, to
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: build that communication line is really different. And what it
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: usually takes is commonality in some way. You have to
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: connect with the guy, speak his language, try to speak
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: his language, understand his hometown. Oh, I've been to the
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: Dominican Republic. Anything that could connect you with the player
• 30:39
  Speaker 5: that you're trying to get to and give to is
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: of the most importance. And I'm going to tell you what,
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: Tony had a tough time. As good as he, I hope,
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: will be in the future and as many accolades as
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: he gets in the future, This has been a tough
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: time for him because it's difficult. If it was easy,
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: everyone would do it, right? It's tough stuff.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: My next question to you about managing, it's a new
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: era of how management is now. Do you think you
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: could handle what's being thrown out there? Not necessarily making
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: the lineup. Some managements don't do that. Would you be
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: a fan of that or would you be like, hey, man,
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: this ain't for me. I know my guys and I
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: need to have a little bit more. pulled during my
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: managerial career.
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: Well you know i was criticized when i managed because
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: i had too many lineups you know i like moving
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: lineups around i like using analytics i liked all that
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: stuff but there are a lot of days i wish
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: it was somebody else's responsibility to make out the lineup
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: because i was going.
• 31:46
  Speaker 6: Where do we go from here geez oh my we
• 31:48
  Speaker 6: can't get a hit this guy's too tough so um
• 31:53
  Speaker 6: I think, yeah, I could adapt and adjust because I
• 31:57
  Speaker 6: was an athlete.
• 31:57
  Speaker 5: You guys were athletes. What athletes do better than the
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: normal person is they adjust and they adapt. So I
• 32:07
  Speaker 5: think I could. I would hope that whoever I was
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: working for could adjust to some of the thoughts I
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: had too. And it wasn't just a one-way street, but
• 32:17
  Speaker 5: it's different. And no one likes change. Let's make that
• 32:22
  Speaker 5: Let's make that clear. Except for that person that's implementing
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: the change on others, right?
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:29
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: That's fair. That's fair. People haven't changed. How we handle
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: them does. So how about the current state of the Mets?
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Give me what your view is, however close you are,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: however far away it is you are. What's the current
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: state that you're watching in the Mets as a team,
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: but also the organization?
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: Well, one of the great, great honors of my life.
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: I got into the hall of fame a couple of
• 32:53
  Speaker 5: months ago and I spent a few decades in their uniform.
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: So I'm a real fan and you know, not seeing
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: the three big guys play together very often, you know,
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: Soto and, and, and Bichette and, and Lindor, you know,
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: they only had a handful of games. It seems like
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: where they played together and, and a team needs them
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: to be, you know, solid and, Then you could build
• 33:19
  Speaker 5: around the rest. And they really didn't have that this year.
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: And I think it's pretty remarkable that they played as
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: well as they have, you know, since the break. Kudos
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: to the young players. Playing as a young player in
• 33:32
  Speaker 5: New York is a difficult chore. And doing it once
• 33:36
  Speaker 5: is tough. And doing it multiple times is even tougher.
• 33:39
  Speaker 5: So we'll see what happens next year and years beyond.
• 33:42
  Speaker 5: But I think right now the Mets are in an
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: okay place now. but they're not where they want to be.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Yep. Well said. Well, Bobby B, thank you so much
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: for joining us on this day when we think a
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: little bit harder and a little bit longer about 25
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: years ago. We appreciate it. And the context is important,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: especially for a lot of youngsters out there listening who
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: maybe weren't even born for that time period. So thank you,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Bobby B.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Thanks, Scott.
• 34:11
  Speaker 5: I like the way you guys give your perspective too.
• 34:13
  Speaker 5: Good job.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Really means a lot. Bobby Ballantyne, the great.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: 10 years as a player, 16 as a manager. We'll
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: be right back.