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Can Hollywood Go Green? Inside the Sustainable Production Movement · How To Protect The Ocean

• 0:00
  This is the moment
• 0:00
  you've been waiting for.
• 0:02
  We are going to be
• 0:03
  talking to Zina Harris,
• 0:04
  who's here to talk
• 0:05
  about how the production
• 0:07
  of Hollywood movies and TVs can be
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  environmentally friendly,
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  looking at sustainability,
• 0:14
  looking at climate readiness,
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  making sure that the impact from TV
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  production and movies
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  aren't going to have a significant effect
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  on the environment and
• 0:25
  maybe save some money
• 0:27
  for these organizations.
• 0:28
  That's gonna be on today's episode
• 0:29
  of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.
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  Here to talk about your
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  not only on the podcast, but on YouTube,
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  on TikTok, on Instagram.
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  We put out information
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  all about the ocean news
• 1:06
  and how you can protect the ocean.
• 1:09
  So today we're going to
• 1:10
  be talking to Zina Harris,
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  and it's actually really interesting.
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  So Zina is the founder of and president
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  of GreenSpark Group,
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  which is a group of
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  sustainability consultancy
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  and a certified B
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  corporation focused on integrating
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  sustainable production practices in the
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  entertainment industry.
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  And their practice, her practice areas
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  are on production coordination,
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  corporate strategy, program management,
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  education, sustainability production,
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  sustainable production form conference
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  that she puts on every year.
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  She's also the co-host of the tie-in,
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  which is a podcast that just talks all
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  about sustainability in production,
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  in movie productions and TV productions.
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  And today we're going to be talking a lot
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  about just how businesses
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  and industries that you
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  wouldn't expect become sustainable.
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  And what are the drivers
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  behind wanting to be sustainable?
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  I think that's really what it comes down
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  to because, you know,
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  we talk about how coral
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  reefs need to be protected.
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  We talk about how seagrass restoration
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  needs to happen and mangrove
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  restoration needs to happen.
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  We need to reduce climate
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  change, but how do we do that?
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  You know, there's,
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  there's mandates that come down,
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  regulations that come down from
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  governments that we
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  talked about all this week.
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  When we talked about sustainability and
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  businesses and we talked about how
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  businesses sometimes
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  try to, try to greenwash.
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  So how do we make sure that these, these
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  production companies, these, these,
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  product companies, any kind of company
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  that sells any kind of goods and service,
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  how do we make sure that they are
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  actually doing what they're supposed to
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  be doing and making sure they don't have
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  an impact on the environment
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  and are sustainable in doing that while
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  they create products that we enjoy and
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  love and sometimes need.
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  So I wanted to have Zina on to kind of
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  give us a look into what we
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  are, what we need to do as,
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  what individual industries need to do,
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  need to do just to become this part of,
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  of, of life, really is
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  really what it's going to be.
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  So with that said, here is the interview
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  with Zina Harris talking about how to
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  become more sustainable
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  with production companies.
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  Enjoy and I'll talk to you after.
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  Hey Zina, welcome to the how to protect
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  the ocean podcast. Are you ready to talk
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  about sustainability in
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  the entertainment industry?
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  Oh yes, I love talking about this.
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  And you know what's funny is I bet you
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  some people who maybe they just turned
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  this on and they're saying they see the
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  title how to protect the ocean and
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  they're probably confused.
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  They're like, wait a minute. Andrew just
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  said sustainability in
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  the entertainment industry.
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  What the heck does that have to do with
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  ocean protection? And I'm going to say it
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  has everything to do
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  with ocean protection.
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  I think there are things that we can do
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  in our, in our daily lives, but also in
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  our work life or through processes and
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  workflows through work that we do in any
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  type of industry, whether it's the
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  entertainment industry or any other like
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  finance or tech or anything like that.
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  There's always something that we can do
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  to lessen our footprint on the
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  environment in a variety of different
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  ways, not only from a climate change
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  perspective, but from a plastics and just
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  overall sustainability and
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  just being nice to the plant.
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  And that's what we're here to talk about
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  because you know, you know, when we
• 4:14
  started talking about on LinkedIn, you
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  know, we obviously we have a podcast, you
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  have the tie in podcast, I have this
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  podcast and you know, obviously it's
• 4:20
  always great to be able to interview
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  someone who has a podcast because you
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  know, their sounds going to be great and
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  everything's going to be fun.
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  But you know, I feel like it's we have
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  this this connection about looking for
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  sustainability in different ways.
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  So I'm looking forward to asking all
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  questions around sustainability,
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  especially within the film industry. But,
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  you know, before we get started, you
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  know, once you just let us know who you
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  are and what you do.
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  Sure. Yes, I am. Well, I am a CEO and
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  founder of Greenspark Group, which is a
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  sustainability consulting company. And I
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  started that in 2014. So
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  it's been a little while now.
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  Yeah, and it's evolved over the years. I
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  also co host a podcast, as you mentioned,
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  the tie in that's a lot of fun. It gives
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  an opportunity to just talk with a lot of
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  different people behind the scenes and
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  entertainment that are doing great work. And we want to highlight that.
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  And then I also I started a conference
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  years ago, 10 years ago now, it's called
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  the Sustainable Production Forum. And a
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  couple years ago, three years ago, maybe
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  we spun it off into its own nonprofit,
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  the sustainable entertainment society.
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  And that's based in Canada. And so it is
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  an umbrella nonprofit that hosts this
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  conference and all, you
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  know, several other conferences.
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  And it's a great thing to have a
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  conversation about sustainability and how
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  we can help people and, you know,
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  contribute to the field and then, you
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  know, bring people together and then also
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  have a fun outlet for talking about it
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  through the podcast.
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  I love that. I think that's a great
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  thing. And I think it's, you know,
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  something we talk about sustainability,
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  hear that word a lot. I think some people
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  use it for greenwashing. And I think
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  other people use it in this real form.
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  You know what I mean? But I think it gets
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  confusing for people, you know, in terms
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  of what sustainability actually is. So
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  for the context of what we're going to be
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  talking about today, what is
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  sustainability for the
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  meaning to you and your business?
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  I'm so glad you asked because I agree.
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  It's one of these terms that, you know,
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  when you say it, people's eyes kind of
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  glaze over and it's like, what are we
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  talking about here? You know, some people
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  think it's recycling. Others, you know,
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  have a particular thing that they focus
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  on with sustainability.
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  I like to think about it. You know, we
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  hear ESG, environmental social
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  governance. That's a way to think about
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  it. You know, people, planet, profit.
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  That's also another way to think about
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  it, where you're talking about, you know, obviously, you know, sustainability.
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  Obviously, people and how they interact
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  in the social stuff and plan it for all
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  the environmental aspects and then
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  governance for organizations. So I like
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  to think about it in kind of those
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  buckets where it's
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  not just environmental.
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  We're talking about the people, how they
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  work, the opportunities, you know, in and
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  around their workplace. And then we're
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  also talking about culture, you know,
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  overarching kind of organizational
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  governance and how to make that better.
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  And then obviously all in service of like
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  how we do work, how we live on the planet
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  and the resources that the planet has.
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  And so I think that's a really good thing
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  to think about is that the planet
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  provides. So I like to think about it in
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  in kind of this broad way. I have to be
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  honest, though, a lot of the work that we
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  do. We, we approach work with people in
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  mind and how they, you know, will
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  interact with us and interact with the
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  topic and interact in their workplace and
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  all of this, what we're teaching them,
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  you know, a lot of
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  training and stuff like that.
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  But a lot of the work that we do then,
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  you know, on the results side of things
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  is very environmental oriented. We're
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  doing like, you know, carbon footprints,
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  which, you know, like we're taking this
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  environmental data, we're analyzing it,
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  and then we're creating a footprint.
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  And then hopefully organizations use that
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  to, you know, make projects make their
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  organization better going forward. And
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  that's where the governance piece comes
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  in. So, I mean, you can see how it all
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  ties together. But a lot of the work in
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  our industry focuses on the
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  environmental piece of it.
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  Yeah, that's it's really interesting too,
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  because like you're thinking about the
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  different industries, obviously, and
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  there's regulations that a lot of
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  industries have to follow. And so you
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  have consultants that come in. I used to
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  be an environmental consultant for, you
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  know, fossil fuel
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  companies and mining companies.
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  And there's certain regulations that they
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  have to strictly follow to make sure they
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  don't impact the environment. And then
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  you get into like, you know, finance and
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  tech and all these types of things that
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  it's a little bit more loosely, you know,
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  regulated for your industry.
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  The entertainment industry, before we
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  start recording, you mentioned that, you
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  know, people will do it for, you know, I
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  was asking like, what drives people to do
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  it? Is it just because, you know, the
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  arts tends to be a little bit more
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  environmentally focused or
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  environmentally leaning and
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  protecting that environment?
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  So I was like, who's who's driving this?
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  Is it the actors? Is it the studios, the
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  production companies, so forth? You
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  mentioned regulations? How is the
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  entertainment industry from a production
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  level, or even any kind of level
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  regulated in terms of environmental
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  regulations? Is that a federal state? A
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  little bit of both are
• 10:04
  province if they're in Canada?
• 10:05
  Well, it's really interesting. Other
• 10:07
  industries are more highly regulated than
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  the film and TV industry. So I will just
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  say that the regulations come from more
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  of a reporting standpoint, like reporting
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  greenhouse gas emissions. And that's even
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  fairly new, right? So it's not like, you
• 10:27
  know, there are other kind of general
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  regulations out there, like every
• 10:30
  business needs to, you know,
• 10:33
  not don't, you know, toxin-d
• 10:35
  things down a storm drain. So if someone
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  was monitoring that on a film production,
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  they definitely would want to, you know,
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  make sure that that wasn't happening. And
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  if it did, maybe there would be a fine.
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  But nobody's on film production is like
• 10:48
  monitoring that stuff. Right? So, so in
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  some ways, like there is regulation from
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  maybe a reporting standpoint. And that
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  peaks the the ears of large companies
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  because they will need to report. But on
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  the other side, like, a lot of our
• 11:05
  industry is not just like,
• 11:05
  you know, the industry tends to fly under
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  the radar in, you know, other ways, other
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  regulatory ways. That's not to say we're
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  like, you know, breaking laws left and
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  right. I'm just saying, like, you don't
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  see the oversight in the same way as you
• 11:19
  might in other industries that are very
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  heavily regulated, you know,
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  manufacturing, you know, chemical
• 11:26
  industry, you know, all of these kinds of
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  things are just a little, it's just
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  different. So that's interesting. I do
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  think that, you know,
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  to your point about, you know, the
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  entertainment industry leaning, you know,
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  toward more environmentally friendly
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  practices and whatnot. It's been an
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  evolution, honestly, like, you know,
• 11:47
  there are, you know, there's talent out
• 11:51
  there who really care about certain
• 11:53
  causes. And so they will bring, you know,
• 11:57
  their cause, their sustainability, you
• 11:59
  know, environmental topic, you know, into
• 12:02
  a conversation. And that's
• 12:03
  all well and good. So that's
• 12:05
  one way it comes in. There's also, you
• 12:11
  know, a huge cost savings component, if
• 12:15
  we're just getting to, you know, that
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  economic that financial piece. You know,
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  if we purely look at that, we see a lot
• 12:23
  of cost savings when you really start,
• 12:25
  you know, looking through, you know,
• 12:27
  doing a process map, for all the folks
• 12:30
  out there who love that, really picking
• 12:32
  apart, what's going on?
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  What, you know, fuel are we using, you
• 12:38
  know, all the processes, all the
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  decisions down the whole film and TV
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  development, like, you know, process from
• 12:47
  like, idea, through development
• 12:49
  fundraising, you know, putting together a
• 12:53
  team greenlight, you know, actually
• 12:56
  starting to plan where this production is
• 12:58
  going to be, you know, all of that. And
• 13:01
  then, and then we get to production where
• 13:02
  we actually execute, we actually, you
• 13:04
  know, turn, you know,
• 13:05
  cameras rolling. And, you know, people
• 13:07
  are doing all their, you know, designing
• 13:09
  sets and building them and
• 13:11
  transportation, you know, there's like,
• 13:14
  on a large production, there are
• 13:18
  something like 20 different departments,
• 13:21
  which, you know, I like to, you know,
• 13:24
  people talk about, you know, it's like a
• 13:26
  small city, you know, where we've got the
• 13:29
  accounting department, and the
• 13:31
  transportation
• 13:32
  department, and, you know, foods,
• 13:35
  services. So, you know, like all the
• 13:37
  these elements in a city, you know, like
• 13:40
  really converge in this, you know,
• 13:43
  microcosm, this production. And then even
• 13:45
  after that, there's like, rap and doing
• 13:48
  stuff with the materials and, you know,
• 13:52
  post production and distribution. And
• 13:54
  then you see it on your screen, you know,
• 13:56
  like that. So there's like a huge process
• 13:58
  to think through, right? And there's like
• 14:02
  a cascading effect from, you know,
• 14:05
  that development early development stage
• 14:07
  and those early decisions in the budget
• 14:09
  that we're creating and all of that, and
• 14:11
  then it gets to production. So it's an
• 14:13
  exciting process. What we hear the most
• 14:15
  about is that one phase of production,
• 14:19
  because that's like, where, you know,
• 14:21
  folks are executing on the vision. So I
• 14:24
  find that, you know, that just the way
• 14:27
  that comes together really interesting.
• 14:30
  And so you can
• 14:32
  imagine, there are a lot of
• 14:35
  different companies in and around that
• 14:37
  process. Yeah. Whether it be the
• 14:39
  production company, and the very early
• 14:41
  stage, whether it be the vendors that
• 14:44
  service in and around anywhere in that
• 14:46
  process of the supply chain is really
• 14:47
  critical. And, you know, and then you've
• 14:51
  got like large companies, studios who are
• 14:54
  picking up this content and distributing
• 14:56
  it or, or commissioning it or
• 14:59
  distributing it or whatever it might be.
• 15:00
  But there are lots of different people in
• 15:04
  and around that process. And
• 15:05
  you've got investors that care or that
• 15:06
  need, you know, neither the data, the
• 15:09
  reporting or want to make sure that
• 15:11
  they're saving money when they can. So
• 15:14
  there are a lot of different reasons. And
• 15:17
  then, you know, at the end of the day,
• 15:19
  some of these, you know, large studios
• 15:22
  are all publicly traded. So investors
• 15:24
  might have something to say about it too.
• 15:29
  So anyway, there's a lot
• 15:31
  of... A lot of moving parts.
• 15:35
  people expressing wants and
• 15:38
  needs at different stages.
• 15:40
  And so it's not just
• 15:42
  regulatory, just to circle back.
• 15:44
  It's, there's a lot of
• 15:45
  competing factors of like why,
• 15:48
  a company would want to do this.
• 15:52
  So I have to ask going back a little bit,
• 15:54
  how, I have two questions
• 15:56
  that are a little bit related
• 15:58
  to, well, obviously,
• 15:58
  definitely relate to this conversation,
• 16:00
  but related to each other.
• 16:01
  The first is like, how
• 16:02
  did you get interested
• 16:04
  in doing this type of work and in and
• 16:06
  around sustainability?
• 16:08
  And then how did you get into the
• 16:10
  entertainment industry to do it in there?
• 16:13
  Because it's not the
• 16:14
  first thing you think about.
• 16:15
  And so I'm just wondering, like, did you
• 16:17
  have a history already working in the
• 16:19
  entertainment industry in the, in behind
• 16:21
  the scenes
• 16:21
  background, that kind of stuff?
• 16:23
  So yeah, just those, those two questions
• 16:25
  that are somewhat related.
• 16:27
  Yeah.
• 16:28
  I did not work in entertainment before
• 16:30
  starting GreenSpark Group.
• 16:32
  I did work in corporate human resources
• 16:37
  for a large multinational corporation.
• 16:40
  And I worked in the mergers and
• 16:41
  acquisitions group
• 16:42
  from an HR perspective.
• 16:45
  Okay, very related.
• 16:47
  Yeah.
• 16:47
  So I was used to dealing with people and
• 16:50
  training them and pulling policies and
• 16:52
  all of this stuff together.
• 16:54
  So there's that.
• 16:55
  But I also in that role realized that
• 16:58
  there were a lot of
• 16:59
  inefficiencies in the organization.
• 17:01
  And I was having to
• 17:02
  talk to people about them.
• 17:04
  But I knew that, you know,
• 17:05
  maybe we could do things better.
• 17:07
  So that kind of, you know, was a bit of
• 17:09
  an internal tension for me.
• 17:11
  There's got to be a better
• 17:11
  way, you know, that sort of thing.
• 17:13
  So I ended up then going to graduate
• 17:15
  school for sustainability and
• 17:19
  environmental management.
• 17:20
  And that's where I really started pulling
• 17:23
  together, you know, that that early
• 17:26
  tension I felt working
• 17:27
  in this large company.
• 17:28
  And then also, you know, I had lived in
• 17:32
  Southern California and I had friends in
• 17:34
  the industry and I had been
• 17:36
  introduced to the industry.
• 17:38
  Actually, I went to a couple movie
• 17:40
  premieres and that was exciting.
• 17:42
  And then I had friends who worked on set
• 17:44
  and we get to go and
• 17:47
  see what they were doing.
• 17:48
  And so I had an idea.
• 17:50
  And so I started honing in on like, what?
• 17:52
  What is, you know, what is
• 17:54
  sustainability and film and TV?
• 17:56
  Because I knew that the entertainment
• 17:59
  industry or film and TV in general was
• 18:02
  like, you know, the gateway into, you
• 18:05
  know, people's homes and, you know, way
• 18:07
  to, you know, we could talk about it and
• 18:10
  figure it out in entertainment.
• 18:11
  Wouldn't that be so cool
• 18:12
  and influence so many people?
• 18:15
  So that's what really
• 18:16
  was my my initial driver.
• 18:18
  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 18:22
  It's interesting. It's interesting
• 18:23
  because I do agree like TV and film have
• 18:27
  such especially these days I find but
• 18:31
  historically have such a profound
• 18:33
  influence on the way
• 18:34
  we think as a society.
• 18:36
  You know, I think, you know, being
• 18:37
  Canadian, I think we get a lot. We take
• 18:40
  on a lot of American culture due to the
• 18:43
  movies and TV that we watch out of the
• 18:46
  states and things like that.
• 18:48
  And maybe vice versa
• 18:49
  with other countries.
• 18:50
  And so I think it's interesting to, you
• 18:54
  know, work in an industry like that.
• 18:57
  Like I did an interview a number of years
• 18:59
  ago where, you know, we talked about how
• 19:02
  story lines are being, you know,
• 19:04
  influenced by outside factors in terms of
• 19:07
  like people who want
• 19:08
  specific issues being brought up.
• 19:10
  And and I spoke to one person who was in
• 19:12
  charge of looking at or helping, you
• 19:14
  know, storylines, whether it's be the
• 19:16
  subplot or the main plot,
• 19:17
  be about the environment.
• 19:19
  So it could be like a fire show that that
• 19:21
  is, you know, has a wildfire involved.
• 19:24
  And so they discuss wildfires and what
• 19:27
  causes it in a little light.
• 19:29
  And people get see that and they get a
• 19:30
  little bit more not only entertained, but
• 19:32
  also, you know, educated on on that fact.
• 19:36
  And from it. And I think it's interesting
• 19:39
  because, you know, sometimes I look every
• 19:41
  time I think about like this, like
• 19:42
  sustainability, I think about what
• 19:44
  happens on a production set in front of
• 19:47
  the camera because it's all I see.
• 19:48
  I don't see behind the camera by see in
• 19:49
  front of the camera and explosions and,
• 19:52
  you know, cars being used
• 19:53
  and all these kind of things.
• 19:55
  And you're just like, wow, you never
• 19:56
  really think about is there
• 19:57
  sustainability around that? Are people
• 19:58
  looking at obviously safety and that kind
• 20:01
  of stuff, occupational health and safety,
• 20:03
  but also the sustainability around that
• 20:06
  is interesting to me and looking at ways
• 20:10
  to minimize the impact on the
• 20:12
  environment, even though it's it might be
• 20:14
  an intermittent or just a one
• 20:16
  blaster or things like that.
• 20:17
  But then as I got as I was preparing for
• 20:20
  this interview, I started to think about
• 20:22
  all the things that go behind the scenes
• 20:25
  and that are on like you like you
• 20:26
  mentioned all the different people and
• 20:28
  companies that are involved in a
• 20:30
  production or even before that production
• 20:32
  and after the production enduring that
• 20:35
  really could play a role in decreasing
• 20:38
  the environmental footprint
• 20:39
  of wherever they're shooting.
• 20:40
  You know, whether it be in the US,
• 20:42
  whether it be in Hollywood or whether it
• 20:43
  be in Vancouver or Toronto and Thailand,
• 20:46
  wherever that might be.
• 20:48
  So I think that that's interesting. So
• 20:50
  can you just talk a little bit about I
• 20:53
  guess that how a project starts for you
• 20:57
  and where does it start and are you
• 21:00
  involved in all the moving parts?
• 21:04
  Because that seems like a lot of a lot of
• 21:06
  work on on those types of productions.
• 21:08
  Well, yeah, I mean, it is interesting.
• 21:11
  We we have some projects where we have
• 21:13
  been included in that,
• 21:16
  you know, that full process.
• 21:19
  And those are the those are really
• 21:20
  exciting because you can see how
• 21:22
  interventions early on in decision making
• 21:25
  and talking about sustainability, looking
• 21:29
  through the budget early on through that
• 21:31
  lens can actually, you know,
• 21:34
  we like to say, you know, kind of if
• 21:37
  you're doing this across a slate, it can
• 21:39
  definitely compound savings.
• 21:40
  So not only just looking at your one
• 21:42
  project in the whole process of
• 21:44
  development and then, you
• 21:46
  know, execution and whatnot.
• 21:47
  But then if you're managing multiple
• 21:49
  projects like you're taking that cost
• 21:51
  savings and you're doing it
• 21:52
  again and again and again.
• 21:55
  And, you know, inevitably, it'll be
• 21:57
  different on every show because, you
• 21:58
  know, location or what's available or
• 22:00
  what you can do in a given region.
• 22:01
  But having the framework and the
• 22:03
  knowledge to then be able to
• 22:05
  replicate is like so great.
• 22:08
  It's you know, this is where it gets
• 22:10
  really exciting because, you know,
• 22:13
  production execs can
• 22:14
  see where the savings are.
• 22:17
  They don't have to wait till the end of
• 22:18
  the project and get the report.
• 22:20
  You know, they can set it up that way.
• 22:23
  And so that's a really exciting part.
• 22:25
  But we do most like, I mean, the green
• 22:29
  spark group was like 12 years old.
• 22:30
  So we have been learning this as we go in
• 22:34
  terms of like where the best entry point
• 22:35
  would be or how to best help, you know,
• 22:37
  we're just constantly trying to evolve
• 22:41
  and figure out how to, you know, provide
• 22:44
  the most impact to
• 22:46
  our clients and whatnot.
• 22:47
  And so we've mostly joined projects at
• 22:53
  the pre-production phase and it used to
• 22:57
  start like a few days before production
• 23:00
  or it's like, you know, everything's
• 23:02
  planned, you know, but now we're you
• 23:06
  know, the industry is, you know, more
• 23:10
  aware and you can see the benefits when
• 23:13
  you start earlier and all that.
• 23:14
  So we we do tend to start, you know,
• 23:18
  four, six, eight weeks
• 23:19
  out from actual production.
• 23:21
  So we have a lot of time to work with the
• 23:24
  crew before they actually like, you know,
• 23:28
  start rolling camera, right?
• 23:29
  Right. Right.
• 23:30
  So yeah, and then, you know, that whole
• 23:33
  production process is really, you know,
• 23:35
  it's exciting in that, you know, you're
• 23:38
  you're executing on what you planned
• 23:40
  earlier and, you know, trying to we like
• 23:43
  to try and really work with our crews to
• 23:45
  like evolve, you know, once we, you know,
• 23:47
  see, oh my gosh, you know, this EV here
• 23:49
  is really saving us money, like, let's
• 23:51
  see if we can deploy another one, you
• 23:52
  know, like, really try
• 23:53
  to evolve as it goes.
• 23:54
  That's exciting. That doesn't always
• 23:57
  happen. Sometimes it's just like, no, you
• 24:00
  know, this is our budget. We're just
• 24:01
  going to continue with this one. Yeah.
• 24:04
  Yeah. But if we can, like, it's it's when
• 24:06
  we have the support of the producer line
• 24:09
  producer, like, it can really flow and be
• 24:11
  so cool to see all the wonderful things
• 24:15
  that the crew can can actually do.
• 24:17
  Yeah. We know like fuel consumption and
• 24:20
  this is, you know, broadly, you know, now
• 24:21
  known in the industry. Fuel consumption
• 24:24
  is the major contributor to the carbon
• 24:26
  footprint. We have a lot of vehicles, a
• 24:28
  lot of trucks, right?
• 24:29
  Carrying gear around and whatnot.
• 24:32
  We all kind of gather at base camp or all
• 24:35
  these trailers and, you know, for
• 24:36
  wardrobe and hair and makeup and all.
• 24:39
  And, you know, there's catering, you
• 24:41
  know, so there's a lot of, you know,
• 24:43
  vehicles that we don't think about.
• 24:44
  Exactly. Exactly. And then, you know, I
• 24:47
  like to say, like, everything
• 24:49
  you see on TV was put there.
• 24:53
  For a reason, right? Somebody's on
• 24:55
  thought about that. Yeah. They, you know,
• 25:00
  you think someone's walking down the
• 25:01
  street, you know, with, you know, but all
• 25:04
  those people are extras or, or it's
• 25:06
  actually, you know, a green screen or,
• 25:08
  you know, like, so
• 25:09
  everything is planned out.
• 25:11
  And so that's the exciting part because
• 25:13
  that means that everything is a decision.
• 25:18
  And so when we talk about, you know,
• 25:21
  sustainability and, you know, we like to
• 25:23
  say, think what the sustainability lens
• 25:25
  because all of those decisions, you know,
• 25:29
  can have alternatives or can have, you
• 25:31
  know, like what, you know, what's the
• 25:33
  best way to go about this
• 25:34
  or, you know, for things.
• 25:36
  And so we talk a lot about that with our
• 25:39
  clients and try to help them, you know,
• 25:43
  like, one of the big things is materials,
• 25:47
  you know, a lot of wood to build sets.
• 25:50
  And then what do you do with that? So
• 25:52
  there's this whole process of material
• 25:53
  reuse that we like to think about as a
• 25:58
  circular economy where, you know, when
• 26:00
  puts are coming in and they're being used
• 26:02
  and then they're going back into the
• 26:03
  system and it just keeps,
• 26:04
  you know, keeps flowing.
• 26:05
  And not going to a landfill. So, so we
• 26:11
  want to do more of that. Like, this is
• 26:13
  what we want to, you know, we want crews
• 26:14
  to experience it, see it, see the cost
• 26:16
  savings involved. So, so it's, there's a
• 26:20
  lot going into the behind the scenes, a
• 26:23
  lot of departments, a lot of people, you
• 26:25
  know, we work on a lot
• 26:26
  of times big productions.
• 26:28
  So there's a lot of folks to engage and
• 26:31
  think through, you know, these various
• 26:34
  elements with. So it can all be very
• 26:37
  exciting. Yeah, no, I mean, I think it's
• 26:39
  great. You're the guide to help them be
• 26:41
  more sustainable, where they're trying to
• 26:44
  focus just on shooting this, the scenes
• 26:46
  and making this production.
• 26:48
  You're there to be like, oh, hey, there's
• 26:50
  options here. Like you don't just throw
• 26:52
  it in the trash or you don't just remove.
• 26:54
  There's an options to make it more
• 26:56
  circular, to make it more sustainable,
• 26:57
  which they may not have had the time to
• 26:59
  research to figure out because a lot of
• 27:01
  it, I have to, like I would imagine you
• 27:02
  can confirm this is
• 27:03
  sometimes it's a new process. Right.
• 27:06
  Or, or like, nobody's really thought of
• 27:08
  it before. And so you're like, oh, well,
• 27:10
  how about we try this and how about we
• 27:11
  try that? And like, when, when you
• 27:14
  suggest those things to people, do you
• 27:18
  find there, there a lot of times they're
• 27:20
  surprised like, oh, I
• 27:21
  didn't know they can do that.
• 27:22
  Or I didn't know that could be done or,
• 27:23
  or, or do you ever get any pushback to
• 27:25
  some of these types of things? Of course,
• 27:29
  we get pushback. I mean, come on. Yeah,
• 27:34
  there, there's
• 27:35
  pushback, but it's interesting.
• 27:36
  This is why I'm such an advocate for
• 27:38
  talking about this, you know, and why we,
• 27:42
  you know, created the sustainable
• 27:44
  production forum years ago is because
• 27:46
  when you hear about various sustainable
• 27:50
  practices from your peers, yeah, or even
• 27:53
  inspiration from other industries, you
• 27:55
  know, pulling together and you're, you
• 27:56
  know, it's inspiring and you realize, oh,
• 27:59
  okay, I can do that.
• 28:01
  Right. So I think that more of the case
• 28:03
  studies that come out, the more behind
• 28:05
  the scenes, everybody loves watching
• 28:07
  behind the scenes videos, right? For
• 28:08
  sure. So the more of those that are that
• 28:11
  are out there talking about the good work
• 28:13
  that folks are doing, it helps get over
• 28:17
  that hump of, you know, change, right?
• 28:19
  I don't, you know, I don't, I don't know
• 28:22
  if I can do it. But if you see, you know,
• 28:25
  a colleague, you know, doing it, then it
• 28:28
  just makes it that much easier to kind
• 28:30
  of, you know, believe in the process or
• 28:32
  whatever. So I'm a big fan of that.
• 28:35
  And yeah, I think once people, you know,
• 28:41
  do it and, you know, get into it, there's
• 28:44
  a real sense of pride. There's a real
• 28:47
  sense of like, they can see the cost
• 28:49
  savings, they can see, you know, at the
• 28:52
  end when you know, we give a report and
• 28:54
  you know, there's, you know, greenhouse
• 28:58
  gas emission reduction.
• 29:00
  And that's exciting, you know, wow, we
• 29:02
  actually did it, you know, yeah, I think
• 29:05
  it's really important to circle that
• 29:07
  information back to the crew so they can
• 29:09
  see the fruits of their labor in that
• 29:10
  regard. You need to
• 29:13
  buy in for the next time.
• 29:15
  Yeah, and then taking that with them
• 29:17
  going forward, it just gives them more,
• 29:20
  you know, I guess more confidence to take
• 29:25
  it forward. Because that's what we want.
• 29:27
  We want them to learn, adapt, evolve, you
• 29:31
  know, see this new gear and think it's
• 29:33
  cool and find new ways to work with it.
• 29:36
  Yeah, and take it forward. So yeah, I
• 29:38
  love that. I love that idea. Can you take
• 29:41
  us through the
• 29:42
  evolution of sustainability?
• 29:45
  Briefly, obviously, within that industry,
• 29:49
  like, when did it really start to happen?
• 29:52
  Was it when a certain regulation went
• 29:53
  through? Or when did production companies
• 29:57
  and studios and other companies start to
• 29:59
  think about, you know, being a little bit
• 30:02
  more sustainable? Like, can you take us
• 30:04
  through that and how that's changed like
• 30:06
  from then until now?
• 30:09
  Yeah, it's, I mean, it's really
• 30:11
  interesting. I think it was 2006 when the
• 30:16
  studios, like the large, you know, the
• 30:22
  big six at the time, all of those started
• 30:26
  hiring, you know,
• 30:28
  sustainability directors.
• 30:29
  Interesting.
• 30:30
  And so it probably took a little bit of
• 30:31
  time for them to like, you know, figure
• 30:33
  out how to, you know, to, to spin up
• 30:37
  sustainability in their organization, you
• 30:40
  know, specifically focused on production.
• 30:42
  So, so it was around that time that those
• 30:44
  folks started to get hired. And was there
• 30:48
  a certain reason why that happened? Was
• 30:49
  it because of a regulation that went
• 30:51
  through or, or just that was
• 30:53
  just where things were going?
• 30:54
  Well, it's really interesting. There was
• 30:56
  a paper that came out from UCLA that I
• 31:00
  think sparked like, oh, yeah, it's a bit
• 31:03
  of an oh shit moment.
• 31:05
  Because it compared.
• 31:08
  It compared the film and TV industry in
• 31:11
  the LA basin to other industries in the
• 31:14
  LA basin and film and
• 31:16
  TV did not look good.
• 31:17
  Gotcha.
• 31:18
  A carbon emission standpoint. And, you
• 31:21
  know, there's been some, you know, him
• 31:23
  and not all in about that paper since
• 31:25
  then. But maybe that was a trigger to for
• 31:30
  these studios to start hiring folks. And
• 31:32
  that has all been good. Right.
• 31:34
  Yeah. Because more people are thinking
• 31:36
  about this and, you know, and setting
• 31:40
  exciting it into practice, coming
• 31:41
  together in, you know, forming
• 31:43
  organizations, engaging with different
• 31:46
  groups, unions and guilds
• 31:47
  and these sorts of things.
• 31:48
  And like, that's been a great evolution
• 31:51
  in that regard. Don't get me wrong, like,
• 31:54
  I think we're just scratching the surface
• 31:57
  on all of this. But when I first started
• 32:00
  12 years ago, I was on one production.
• 32:04
  And all anyone was talking about at that
• 32:08
  time was waste and recycling.
• 32:11
  And, you know, we didn't have good data
• 32:14
  on fuel consumption. We didn't, you know,
• 32:16
  like we were just starting
• 32:18
  to do these calculations.
• 32:20
  You weren't even thinking about
• 32:21
  monitoring that stuff
• 32:22
  at that point, right?
• 32:22
  No, no. So that's what the big focus was
• 32:27
  early on was waste and recycling. And so,
• 32:30
  you know, take that now. And I just
• 32:33
  mentioned, like, you know, all these
• 32:35
  departments and cost savings and
• 32:37
  transportation and fuel consumption and,
• 32:39
  you know, donating
• 32:41
  food was a big evolution.
• 32:43
  So, over the years, it's really evolved
• 32:47
  from that the waste conversation to
• 32:52
  electric electrification and clean tech.
• 32:55
  And we've got more companies out there,
• 32:58
  you know, building cool gear, cool
• 33:01
  trailers, solar power, autonomous
• 33:03
  trailers to, you know, battery power
• 33:06
  stations to replace generators.
• 33:08
  Like, so that part is, like, now we're
• 33:13
  focused on that. And, you know, what I
• 33:17
  think we need to consider now, you know,
• 33:21
  kind of coming back to the material side
• 33:23
  is that we have a good handle on the fuel
• 33:27
  consumption and how to calculate and, you
• 33:29
  know, how to compare year over year
• 33:32
  related to that kind of thing.
• 33:34
  But what we don't have a good handle on
• 33:37
  is the actual embodied carbon of the
• 33:42
  materials that are coming on to
• 33:44
  production, right? Nobody's really
• 33:46
  measuring that we have a count of
• 33:48
  plywood, but we don't calculate the
• 33:51
  carbon associated with that wood.
• 33:53
  So, there's a big evolution and then
• 33:56
  this, you know, whole circular economy
• 33:58
  and reuse big evolution to come in that
• 34:02
  as well. So, you know, yeah. And of
• 34:05
  course, like, you start off with like an
• 34:06
  overview, like, what are the biggest
• 34:08
  savings and what are the
• 34:10
  what can we really measure?
• 34:11
  And then you start to scale down or look
• 34:13
  down and get finer and finer and look at
• 34:16
  like the like the type of wood that's
• 34:18
  coming in and how much carbon is brought
• 34:19
  into there and, you know, all that kind
• 34:21
  of stuff. I think it's a yeah, it's a
• 34:23
  it's a cool evolutionary process in terms
• 34:25
  of how you look at that.
• 34:27
  Now, I got to ask like when you start
• 34:29
  suggesting these things and you start to
• 34:31
  say, you know, try to convince line
• 34:32
  producers and and see as to make these
• 34:34
  types of new changes, like what are the
• 34:37
  biggest obstacles? Is it like money? Is
• 34:40
  it culture? Is it risk? Like what are the
• 34:43
  obstacles? And on the other hand, what is
• 34:45
  like the like the optimistic outlook for
• 34:48
  like what the producers look for that
• 34:50
  they could are they are they professing
• 34:52
  it to the rest of the industry? Like look
• 34:53
  at us. Look what we're
• 34:54
  doing. Is that the incentive?
• 34:56
  Like, like, where is that from the
• 34:58
  negative standpoint of like money, time,
• 35:00
  culture, risk and then others of like,
• 35:02
  hey, we can talk about this
• 35:03
  because we're really proud of it.
• 35:06
  Yeah, it's well, it's all that right.
• 35:09
  There's, you know, right now we are very
• 35:13
  much focused on money and saving money. I
• 35:16
  mean, that is, I would say that's the
• 35:20
  number one part of the
• 35:23
  conversation right now.
• 35:25
  Nobody wants to spend any more money on
• 35:28
  their production. So, you know, the next
• 35:33
  level is, well, okay, we know after, you
• 35:38
  know, all these years, there are a lot of
• 35:39
  people doing this work. We know that
• 35:41
  certain practices save money. So we start
• 35:44
  talking about all that
• 35:46
  that that is possible there.
• 35:48
  And it does take a level of trust and
• 35:53
  confidence in the producing team. And
• 35:57
  even, you know, if they're the ones
• 35:59
  hiring us or if it's a studio to
• 36:01
  actually, you know, work with us, see how
• 36:04
  it plays out, see how we can help them.
• 36:06
  We got a lot of productions under our
• 36:08
  belt. So we have a lot of case studies
• 36:11
  and experience and that sort of thing.
• 36:13
  But for folks who haven't yet done this,
• 36:18
  you know, integrated sustainability on on
• 36:20
  production, it does take a level of trust
• 36:22
  in us and in the teamwork that you know,
• 36:25
  we, we, you know, and how we work with
• 36:28
  production to do this.
• 36:31
  And we've, you know, once that part is,
• 36:35
  you know, they see it, a lot of folks,
• 36:37
  we've got great relationships and work
• 36:40
  with folks, you know, show after show,
• 36:42
  even for different studios and
• 36:45
  they've been asked to talk about it
• 36:48
  because they're great. They're great,
• 36:51
  like, like, it's this great effort on
• 36:54
  their part to, to, to bring us on talk
• 36:59
  about this stuff, you know, show their
• 37:01
  peers what's possible. So I would love
• 37:04
  more of that. Honestly, like I said, just
• 37:06
  talking about it more. I think the peer
• 37:08
  to peer is really, really important.
• 37:10
  And I mean, there are awards out there
• 37:15
  that recognize folks for their good work.
• 37:19
  You know, I certainly like highlighting
• 37:21
  folks when I can, you know, on the
• 37:22
  podcast or, you know, elsewhere. I do
• 37:27
  think it's important to acknowledge good
• 37:28
  work and acknowledge, you know, the trust
• 37:31
  that, you know, somebody had to take a
• 37:32
  leap, you know, a bit of risk involved.
• 37:34
  Absolutely.
• 37:36
  So, and look, it doesn't go well every
• 37:40
  single time. Like, you know, sometimes
• 37:41
  we, we go, we have this grand plan and we
• 37:44
  think we're going to do all this stuff.
• 37:46
  And then, you know, circumstances are
• 37:49
  such that, you know, okay, we're, we,
• 37:51
  it's just, we're not going to do that. So
• 37:52
  we're going to pivot.
• 37:53
  And so anyway, it's all to say, I think
• 37:57
  people need to be recognized for, for
• 37:59
  taking this chance
• 38:00
  and for doing good work.
• 38:02
  What's the one project that made you
• 38:05
  think, okay, like, this
• 38:06
  industry can really change?
• 38:09
  Hmm. Well, you don't have to name the
• 38:12
  studio or anything. You don't think I'm
• 38:13
  too specific. But if there's something
• 38:15
  like, like a particular, a particular
• 38:17
  project you can think about.
• 38:19
  Well, we've been talking a lot about
• 38:20
  productions and we've done some, you
• 38:23
  know, great work on productions, but just
• 38:25
  a gold star project that I, you know,
• 38:30
  warms my heart every time and has had
• 38:31
  such an impact on the
• 38:33
  industry is at the corporate level.
• 38:36
  And I don't think they would mind me
• 38:40
  saying they've said it themselves, but we
• 38:43
  worked with the CBC. Oh, it's been
• 38:46
  several years now, five years, maybe the
• 38:50
  Canadian Broadcasting Company and they, I
• 38:56
  went in and spoke to their top leadership
• 38:58
  did a whole, you know, and it was just
• 39:00
  supported from leadership and trickled
• 39:02
  through the whole company, even down to
• 39:04
  developing, you know,
• 39:05
  guidelines and, you know,
• 39:05
  accountability checks and all sorts of
• 39:08
  things on training people on production,
• 39:10
  but every department, their
• 39:12
  transportation, their environmental team
• 39:14
  was involved. Like we were all together
• 39:17
  creating, you know, a sustainability
• 39:18
  strategy for them. And, you know,
• 39:23
  initially, you know, they had goals that,
• 39:26
  you know, they weren't sure
• 39:28
  if they could meet their goals.
• 39:28
  And, you know, we were encouraging them.
• 39:31
  Yes, we know it. And we're, we think that
• 39:33
  they blew past them and they continue to
• 39:36
  evolve and continue to bring together the
• 39:39
  industry and support events and support
• 39:41
  people talking about this stuff.
• 39:42
  So I see their work as really
• 39:48
  integrative. And that has been just a
• 39:52
  fantastic, you know, case study client to
• 39:57
  watch. So I really hold them up to, you
• 40:01
  know, high standards in that
• 40:02
  regard. That's amazing. So,
• 40:03
  that's awesome. You know, one thing I
• 40:07
  always think about, you know, when we
• 40:09
  talk about the environment in general in
• 40:10
  any industry, it's almost like if you're
• 40:13
  able to protect it or you're able to do
• 40:15
  sustainable things, almost like it's like
• 40:16
  the luxury, right? If you have the extra
• 40:19
  money, you can do that and you can
• 40:21
  protect it. But once, you know, it hits
• 40:24
  the fan, like the economy hits the fan,
• 40:27
  you know, the protection of the
• 40:28
  environment tends to be the first thing
• 40:30
  to go like in policy or in the budget.
• 40:32
  And things like that. How integrated is
• 40:38
  sustainability in the process of a
• 40:41
  production from beginning to end or is it
• 40:44
  that luxury that when a budget becomes
• 40:48
  tighter, that's one of the first things
• 40:50
  to go because it's a luxury.
• 40:54
  Yeah, right now we're still leaning on
• 40:56
  the ladder. It's still considered an add
• 40:58
  on or a luxury. I mean, some get it
• 41:00
  right, you know, and that's great. But
• 41:04
  the scale still, you know, leans toward
• 41:06
  it being an add on and a luxury. And when
• 41:09
  the budget's tight, you know,
• 41:10
  it is one of the first to go.
• 41:13
  So all the work that we do, all that we
• 41:17
  talk about everything we're showing, you
• 41:19
  know, case study wise, you know, we're
• 41:23
  trying to tip the scale, right? We are
• 41:25
  trying to get it to be more integrated.
• 41:27
  And I think that, you know, we can't make
• 41:34
  entertainment on like a dead planet. Like
• 41:37
  we can't survive as humans on a dead
• 41:41
  planet. Like, you know, there's a even in
• 41:43
  music world, they say no
• 41:45
  music on a dead planet.
• 41:45
  Like, sure, do what we do if we don't
• 41:49
  have beautiful locations to do it in,
• 41:52
  right? If we don't have, you know,
• 41:55
  wildlife and, you know, the ecosystem and
• 41:58
  all the stuff. So it's all connected. But
• 42:01
  folks lose sight of that sometimes. And,
• 42:04
  you know, so I think we have to just we
• 42:08
  had to think about that, think about how
• 42:10
  we fit in the ecosystem.
• 42:11
  And if we want to keep doing this work,
• 42:16
  we have to figure out how to do it in a
• 42:19
  way that doesn't, you know, degrade the
• 42:22
  planet or harm someone or something or,
• 42:24
  you know what I mean? So for sure. Yeah,
• 42:26
  no, I completely agree. I'm preaching to
• 42:28
  the choir here, of course.
• 42:28
  But I mean, like it's it's but it's
• 42:32
  always interesting because it always, you
• 42:34
  know, makes me think, you know, what's
• 42:36
  that level where they're just like, okay,
• 42:38
  we just can't afford it on this one. And
• 42:40
  then what's them to say that after a
• 42:42
  while that that just kind of, you know,
• 42:45
  just continues, you know, it's like, oh, let's keep this out. Let's keep this out.
• 42:46
  But it seems like there's this need, you
• 42:52
  know, from people or a want that people
• 42:53
  want to be environmentally friendly,
• 42:55
  whether it's cost savings on some part.
• 42:58
  How do you sell it? You know, being in
• 43:00
  the industry that you're in, how do you
• 43:02
  sell it to just be like, hey, look, like
• 43:03
  this could actually save you money on
• 43:05
  your production or you can have, you
• 43:07
  know, we could talk about it in variety
• 43:09
  or wherever this gets talked about or at
• 43:11
  the conference, obviously, that you have.
• 43:14
  How do you sell it to, you know, the people that you sell it to?
• 43:15
  You sell it to your clients to be like,
• 43:18
  look, like, you know, obviously the
• 43:19
  budget is tight, but this will actually
• 43:21
  help you save money or, you know, you're
• 43:23
  able to talk about it.
• 43:25
  Or is there another way?
• 43:26
  Yeah. Well, like I said, we, you know,
• 43:30
  early on, we were leading with like, it's
• 43:32
  a values thing and all this. And I was
• 43:33
  like, okay, when I went to eat enough
• 43:35
  data, and we understood like, okay, what
• 43:37
  people really care about is cost savings.
• 43:39
  So we lead with that a lot of times.
• 43:42
  And we have a lot of case studies, we
• 43:45
  have a lot of good data on this. So if
• 43:47
  someone's not familiar, we can definitely
• 43:50
  walk them through, you know, how, how
• 43:53
  they're going to save money. So, so
• 43:57
  that's usually the the lead. I also think
• 44:01
  that, you know, there's reputation that
• 44:06
  comes in and out as the folks who have
• 44:08
  consistently integrated
• 44:10
  sustainable practices,
• 44:12
  up and down the value chain, usually have
• 44:15
  a reputation of, you know, doing good
• 44:18
  work, you know, sustainability minded,
• 44:21
  they always, you know, so they fit in,
• 44:23
  you know, like, I've seen studio folks
• 44:28
  say we really love working with that
• 44:30
  producer because she integrates
• 44:32
  sustainability, like,
• 44:33
  she's, she's green already.
• 44:34
  I said, right easy, you know, like this
• 44:37
  stuff, like reputation goes a long way.
• 44:39
  Yeah, related to this. And you know, when
• 44:42
  your, your crew is happy, because they're
• 44:44
  like, feeling like they contribute to,
• 44:46
  you know, this greater cause and all
• 44:48
  this, you just do better work.
• 44:49
  So that contributes to reputation of the
• 44:54
  team, right? So I think that's really
• 44:56
  important too. And I think that's
• 44:58
  overlooked right now, or under under
• 45:01
  talked about, you don't talk about it
• 45:03
  enough. And, but I've seen it play out
• 45:07
  multiple times. So that's positive.
• 45:10
  Yeah, I mean, so, you know, there's a
• 45:16
  reputational element, there's, you know,
• 45:18
  cost savings element, you know, it's,
• 45:23
  it's Hollywood, we want things, you know,
• 45:26
  like, we want, you know, things to sound
• 45:30
  good, things to work well, you know, we
• 45:34
  want to provide good entertainment for
• 45:36
  people. So I think those
• 45:37
  two things go a long way.
• 45:40
  Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, one of the
• 45:43
  things that I'd love to hear from what
• 45:45
  you see in the entertainment industry,
• 45:47
  like what's one thing that you learned
• 45:48
  from the entertainment industry that you
• 45:51
  could see that ocean
• 45:53
  organization should adopt?
• 45:56
  Like, is there something that you see
• 45:57
  every day that you don't see, even it
• 46:00
  doesn't have to be ocean organized
• 46:01
  conservation organizations, but just
• 46:03
  conservation organizations in general, we
• 46:05
  talk about the environment. What's one
• 46:07
  thing that really works when you talk to
• 46:09
  the environment, like to the
• 46:10
  entertainment industry that could work,
• 46:12
  like using the same kind of style or same
• 46:15
  kind of tactic for organizations, like
• 46:17
  conservation organizations?
• 46:19
  Sure, I would say any organization, you
• 46:23
  know, conservation organizations, you
• 46:27
  know, as well, any organization can look
• 46:30
  at their own internal operations and, you
• 46:34
  know, how they're what they're consuming
• 46:36
  their procurement, you know, what, you
• 46:39
  know, create a plan, create a strategy,
• 46:41
  create, you know, calculate, you know,
• 46:43
  your impacts associated, whether it's,
• 46:45
  you know, financial impacts, greenhouse
• 46:46
  gas emissions, you
• 46:48
  know, these sorts of things.
• 46:48
  And then you can learn from that and make
• 46:50
  decisions, better decisions about how you
• 46:53
  operate as a company that can apply to
• 46:57
  any company anywhere. And so I would, you
• 47:01
  know, it's funny because, you know, I've
• 47:05
  worked for consulting companies in the
• 47:07
  past, you know, sustainability consulting
• 47:09
  companies and, you know, even, you know,
• 47:13
  observed, you know, we do
• 47:15
  this work for clients, but we,
• 47:17
  you know, it's like I've experienced
• 47:20
  where we don't calculate our own
• 47:22
  emissions. Why not? Right? So, I mean, my
• 47:26
  company, this was a priority for us, like
• 47:28
  we do, we're b Corp and, you know, all of
• 47:32
  this great stuff. But like, even
• 47:34
  environmentally oriented organizations
• 47:38
  can take a look at what they're doing,
• 47:41
  calculate their own emissions, make
• 47:42
  decisions accordingly, and, you know,
• 47:46
  improve their own emissions.
• 47:47
  And, you know, improve, you know, their,
• 47:48
  you know, impacts over time, right? So
• 47:51
  yeah, I love that. I love that. One last
• 47:54
  question for you. It's kind of a bit of a
• 47:56
  scenario question. Okay, so I want you to
• 47:59
  imagine it's 2036. And like, we're
• 48:03
  looking back in the entertainment
• 48:04
  industry, like truly transformed its
• 48:07
  environmental impact.
• 48:08
  What would you say that would have
• 48:10
  happened between now and then that made
• 48:12
  the biggest difference?
• 48:15
  I think that instead of focusing so much
• 48:21
  on production, we will now be focusing
• 48:24
  upstream on the development side of the
• 48:28
  equation, you know, or of the process, I
• 48:32
  think that will be more of a conversation
• 48:34
  upstream, I think more production execs
• 48:37
  and, you know, production companies
• 48:40
  themselves will be paying attention.
• 48:42
  And then by the time the conversation
• 48:44
  gets to production, it will be
• 48:47
  normalized, it will be integrated, all of
• 48:50
  that. So I hope it comes earlier than 23.
• 48:54
  But I think the balance of like, you
• 48:59
  know, heavy on the production
• 49:00
  conversation right now, I want it to to
• 49:03
  to flip to heavy on the development
• 49:05
  conversation, because, you know, there's
• 49:08
  just so much opportunity in that process
• 49:11
  that I think is untapped. And I, I really
• 49:16
  hope the conversation swings
• 49:17
  a lot more in that direction.
• 49:18
  And what's needed to make that process go
• 49:21
  faster? Like, do you think needs to
• 49:23
  happen at that level? Well, you know,
• 49:26
  talk to you a little bit more.
• 49:27
  Well, you know, it's it's it's a lot of
• 49:32
  it is education and awareness, like they
• 49:34
  don't, you know, folks don't realize what
• 49:37
  the possibilities are, because we haven't
• 49:39
  been having that conversation. We've been
• 49:42
  so production focused. And so I do think
• 49:45
  there's a lot of that involved.
• 49:46
  I think once we get a little bit further
• 49:49
  in our work, we'll be able to, you know,
• 49:52
  show case studies on this. But it's a
• 49:55
  little early days right now, for us to be
• 49:58
  able to do that. But
• 49:59
  there's good work happening.
• 50:00
  I just think, you know, this is a, an
• 50:04
  opportunity for, you know, folks to, you
• 50:06
  know, read up, you know, educate, get
• 50:10
  themselves, you know, up to speed, you
• 50:12
  know, obviously, we can help them do
• 50:13
  that. But like, you know, there's a lot
• 50:15
  of resources out there
• 50:16
  in the industry right now.
• 50:17
  And then, you know, applying that the
• 50:20
  knowledge that they gain to their work in
• 50:23
  their specific role. I think that's
• 50:25
  really important. So I just think, you
• 50:27
  know, it's education and awareness, but
• 50:30
  then also like, once you have that, what
• 50:32
  are you doing with it? Right? How are you
• 50:35
  actually integrating it, starting up the
• 50:37
  conversation in a meeting, you know, and
• 50:39
  holding folks accountable as we, you
• 50:41
  know, make a plan and things like that.
• 50:43
  So, yeah, I, that's where I think things
• 50:48
  are going. I love it.
• 50:49
  You know, this has been absolutely
• 50:52
  fascinating for me and I think for the
• 50:53
  audience as well. I want to thank you so
• 50:56
  much for just taking the time and talking
• 50:57
  about this and educating us on what's
• 50:59
  been done and what hopefully will be done
• 51:01
  in the future. And I think, you know,
• 51:03
  it's really great to see an
• 51:04
  industry that has that has
• 51:05
  been so much has gotten so far so like so
• 51:08
  quickly within the last like 20 years and
• 51:11
  obviously there's more to be done as we
• 51:13
  just discussed. So I really encourage to
• 51:16
  see an industry like this, like really
• 51:17
  develop in that and evolve within this
• 51:19
  sustainability options.
• 51:21
  So thank you so much for sharing that
• 51:23
  with us and for all the work you do to
• 51:24
  help them get there. I think that's
• 51:26
  that's really great. If people want to
• 51:28
  have more information on you or even, you
• 51:30
  know, see what's behind the scenes and
• 51:32
  the tie in podcast, how would they how
• 51:34
  would they go connect with you?
• 51:34
  Sure. You can go to green spark
• 51:37
  group.com. That's our company website.
• 51:41
  And then the tie in.com is the podcast.
• 51:44
  You can look us up on YouTube and all the
• 51:47
  socials. Also check out the sustainable
• 51:50
  production forum.com because we've got a
• 51:52
  conference coming in the fall. So I mean,
• 51:55
  there's a lot of ways to engage with us
• 51:57
  or, you know, shoot me a note on
• 51:59
  LinkedIn. I know that's how we connected.
• 52:01
  So I'm definitely on that platform. So,
• 52:03
  yeah, we'd love to talk to folks about
• 52:06
  this amazing. Thank you so much. I really
• 52:08
  appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you for
• 52:11
  joining us on today's episode of the how
• 52:13
  to protect the ocean podcast was great to
• 52:14
  have you on. I just love the way that it
• 52:17
  becomes easy as drivers because people
• 52:20
  are demanding that companies become more
• 52:24
  sustainable in their production, not only
• 52:25
  from a production and what of TVs and
• 52:28
  Hollywood movies and all this kind of
• 52:29
  stuff. It's more of a production of just
• 52:31
  how they produce their
• 52:32
  products and services.
• 52:32
  We're talking about entertainment
• 52:34
  industry today, but this could this could
• 52:37
  easily be applicable to any type of
• 52:39
  industry that wants to change and the
• 52:41
  driver is people want to see that change.
• 52:44
  And I think to have consultancies like
• 52:45
  zina's to be able to talk about on a
• 52:47
  podcast like she does at the tie in,
• 52:49
  which we have to be able to have a
• 52:50
  conference where others can incorporate
• 52:52
  these types of sustainable sustainable
• 52:55
  practices is a huge, huge win in battling
• 52:58
  climate change in battling water quality.
• 53:01
  You know, water quality issues in
• 53:03
  battling air quality issues on all
• 53:06
  different realms, ocean land and fresh
• 53:08
  water. So I just love housing that really
• 53:10
  tied it in. I hope you enjoyed if you
• 53:12
  have any questions or comments and you
• 53:14
  want to direct it to zina. I'm going to
• 53:16
  put her her socials and any way you can
• 53:19
  communicate with her and you can links to
• 53:21
  the podcast links to her company. If you
• 53:24
  want to work with her, but also, you
• 53:26
  know, if you have any questions to me,
• 53:28
  please let me know just DM me on
• 53:30
  Instagram or on tiktok.
• 53:30
  I'll put my links to my socials in the
• 53:34
  show notes as well. And of course, if you
• 53:36
  want to learn more about the ocean and
• 53:39
  sustainability next week, we're going to
• 53:41
  be talking about how companies are
• 53:43
  turning the tide and changing things. And
• 53:45
  we're going to be interviewing someone
• 53:46
  who has electric vehicles or boats. It's
• 53:50
  going to be awesome. Electric motors
• 53:51
  motors for boats. It's going to be great.
• 53:53
  We're going to have a great week next
• 53:54
  week. So follow now if you haven't
• 53:56
  followed yet on this podcast or your
• 53:58
  favorite podcast tab. And of course, if
• 54:00
  you want to support the channel, you can go to
• 54:00
  speak up for blue.com forward slash
• 54:03
  Patreon. I want to thank you so much for
• 54:05
  joining me on today's episode of the how
• 54:07
  to protect the ocean podcast. Have a
• 54:09
  great day. We'll talk to you next time
• 54:10
  and happy conservation.