Latest / Mythmakers / Not Idly Do The Leaves Of Lorien Fall - LOTR: An Author's Journey, Bk 3 Ch 2

Transcript

Not Idly Do The Leaves Of Lorien Fall - LOTR: An Author's Journey, Bk 3 Ch 2 · Mythmakers

0:00
Hello and welcome to MythMakers. MythMakers is the podcast for fantasy fans and fantasy
0:10
creatives brought to you by the Oxford Centre. For fantasy my name is Julia Golding and this
0:16
is one of our sidecasts as we take an author's book at the Lord of the Rings and we have
0:22
reached chapter two in the two towers which because Tolkien divided the story up into six books it's
0:30
actually chapter two of book three. If you're following me. Okay so we had a very short chapter one
0:40
compared to other chapters in Tolkien so we're now back to his longer chapters. We cover a lot of
0:46
ground literally and figuratively in this chapter and I was thinking about how to describe this
0:55
chapter and I think there are six points I want to really draw out of this chapter. First of all
1:00
is the structure. It falls into three parts roughly and we have the chase of Aragon, Legolas and
1:09
Gimli as they run across the plains of Rohan on the trail of Pippin and Mary and the Orcs.
1:16
We also have a real insight into how Tolkien wrote this story. The image I have in mind is if
1:24
you look at a beautiful tapestry on one side it seems effortless but if you turn it over you can
1:30
see how all the threads interconnect and we'll be thinking about some of those interconnections.
1:36
Another thing I wanted to look at was just clarifying some terms which always puzzled me and
1:43
this time I bothered to go and look them up properly and it's really helped so I will pass that onto
1:48
you. Then there's a highlight on a character which I think Legolas really comes before in this
1:55
chapter in a way that he hasn't elsewhere. Perhaps we saw most about Gimli in Moria and I think we
2:03
get a lot of insights into Legolas in this chapter and we get introduction to a new culture which is
2:09
Rohan and finally the last point is we get a little glimpse to one of our villains,
2:16
Saruman in a mysterious and not entirely explained way which will reach at the end.
2:22
So let's turn to the chapter. The first thing you'll notice is the extraordinary very first
2:28
sentence. Two words, dusk, deepened. Now we have found that very often in descriptions talking
2:37
is quite poetic and he loves eliteration and that really caught me up short. I can't think of
2:44
another chapter at the beginning of two words. I'll look out for it but it's very punchy
2:51
and just I love it, very simple but also it helps on this sort of eliterative use of language
3:00
which we'll see elsewhere and that does fit with the culture they're going to because the Rohan
3:06
culture is the closest we get to a sort of old English Anglo-Saxon culture. Anyway, I just enjoy
3:14
the very first couple of words. We have the first in this chapter of their decision trees
3:22
of which direction to take. There are a couple of moments where they have to stop and think
3:27
which way they're going to go. This is because they're starting off in a rocky land and the trails
3:32
are not entirely clear to see and what comes before here is the harmony of the three even though
3:39
they may be disagreeing about ways to go. They have a way of working together comrades
3:47
in this together. It doesn't have the comic tone of the film so it's quite good to do a
3:54
reset here if you've got the the films foremost in your mind because Gimli has played the
4:01
comic effect. Here he has more seriousness to him and that's seen in the way that they behave.
4:11
So off they go on following the track of the Orcs and there's some wonderful moments in this
4:18
journey they take and I just wanted to read the drama of the Sunrise.
4:26
There they do a sunrise in the film as well which is one of Legolas' lines. That's actually
4:32
the second to the sunrise. It's not this one. We'll come to that in a minute but just think how
4:38
beautiful this is as a piece of writing. So they're just on the trail. Turning back they saw
4:44
across the river the far hills kindled, day leaped into the sky. The red rim of the sun rose over
4:52
the shoulders of the dark land. Before them in the west the world lay still formless and gray
4:58
but even as they looked the shadows of night melted the colors of the waking earth returned,
5:05
green flowed over the wide meads of Rohan, the white mist shimmered in the water veils and far
5:11
off to the left, thirty leagues or more blue and purple stood the white mountains rising into
5:18
peaks of jet tipped with glimmering snows, flushed with the rows of morning. Wonderful painterly
5:25
but also dynamic. It feels almost like the creation of the world, the colour coming into it and that's
5:31
one of the qualities that Middle Earth has. It feels fresh and newly minted and this Sunrise really
5:36
captures that. Plus it's a very useful way of laying out the terrain. There are several moments in
5:43
this this long chase sequence where they stop and look from high ground and see what lays ahead.
5:52
Most readers will then flip to the maps and have a look exactly where they are but you know
5:57
you foreground it and that's part of the illusion of the reality of Middle Earth.
6:04
But when I was reading this the first thing that came to my mind is what is exactly is a league
6:09
I've come across it in fairy tales and I've heard it so many times and I thought well let's find
6:17
out this time exactly how far that is. So I hope everybody else if you don't already know will
6:24
enjoy finding this out. A league is roughly three miles on land and three nautical miles which is
6:31
slightly further at sea but another way of thinking about it is the distance a normal person could
6:40
walk in an hour. So no doubt these three could walk faster than that but if you think how far you
6:47
can walk in an hour that is a league. So when we hear that the white mountains of 30 leagues are
6:56
on it's 30 times three so they're about 90 miles away. So bear those facts in mind because it helps
7:03
to translate into our terms as we are finding out exactly how far they've gone. Of course a league is
7:12
a very helpful sort of term because it is archaic slightly unfamiliar it helps not take us out
7:20
of the moment. You know it'd be hard to think of middle-earth in kilometers for example it
7:27
would just be all too Napoleonic or something so the league is a useful measure. There's also a sense
7:34
here from the chase that we get here we get a sense of the emotional pull in another direction
7:43
for Aragon which is the bigger theme of who he is so in a way this chasing after Mary and Pippin
7:49
is a side mission or that's how he sees it though of course it is integral to the fate smiling
7:55
upon their future but he has a pull to Gondor he's promised to Boramir so he and his own sense of
8:05
his destiny and this sense of this pull is expressed as we're talking talking here in a song.
8:15
I think we're to understand that this is a song he already knows and rather than composing on
8:20
the spot not quite like the Boramir song earlier. The thing to notice about this song is it harps
8:27
on the emblems of Gondor again and again this keeps coming up it comes up in dreams it comes
8:33
up on flags comes up in court yards so that we establish the very firmly the identity of Gondor
8:43
and it's little touches like that the white tree the wing crown and so on which help build the
8:49
place even before we've gone there so we get to hear the emblems. One of the things about this
8:55
chapter which is a bit similar to how book four starts with Frodo and Sam walking on this
9:02
emin wheel stony ground is it took me a while to actually grasp the geography it is incredibly
9:11
carefully described but still it took me a while to a few a few readings to visualize exactly
9:17
what they're doing I found it helpful to imagine a place I've actually walked in and transpose it
9:23
so that I could think of these rocky ledges and these shells and what have you talking clearly
9:30
note exactly what he's talking about but it does take a you can't speed read this you have to
9:35
actually sit and think about it which is no bad thing I mentioned we have a couple of moments
9:41
where they stop and think so we've got this high point but we've got an interesting set of
9:47
dimensions here because we have looking up to see the eagle so we've got the height and we're
9:52
looking across to see far in the distance 12 leagues away 12 times three 36 miles roughly a great
9:59
company on foot which we understand at this point to be the orcs speeding away so they're got a
10:05
big head start and we have a link to another thing which I said about we get to see more about
10:14
legolas in this particular chapter than we have to date we get the hint here that he has keen eyes
10:21
but don't forget this eagle is also a link to Gandalf so flipping over the tapestry we're seeing
10:28
the threads that connect from one thing to another or seamlessly woven into the front pattern
10:34
when I was reading it this time and they come to the describe the trail left by the orcs what I was
10:41
fascinated by was the things orcs left behind we don't really see much of orc culture is something
10:50
that the rings of power have tried to do just one of the interesting things I think they've actually
10:55
tried to do and to humanize in a way orcs by having a father and mother and child orc for example
11:03
but here we get to understand the kind of people orcs are as a band they've dropped food bags
11:12
rinds and crusts of hard grade bread a torn black cloak a heavy iron nailed shoe broken on the stones
11:20
these are all very deliberately chosen details that set forward this idea of their food is rubbish
11:28
horrible food iron black cloaks iron nailed so he's already setting the sort of idea of the artifacts
11:39
of their culture if you excavated an orc holding you would find these kind of things
11:45
and no fine bits of gold or filigree or shields or swords or that kind of thing
11:53
is all they are sort of portrayed by what they leave behind as well as the fact they've trashed
11:59
the places they stop in and that's a fascinating detail so if you think about other
12:05
cultures where we find what they've left behind they're quite a few of them so for example the
12:10
barrow wipes are living in burial mounds and the fine jewels and the swords and so on
12:18
of the northern kingdom tell you what kind of culture that was so here we've got a little
12:23
glimpse of the sort of archeologically minded Tolkien here is a great detail
12:30
so we get down off this Tony land and we reach the green of Rohan and there's a nice description
12:35
of it feeling like the beginning of spring legolas actually finds it better than sleep are the
12:42
green spell he says it is much better than sleep let us run and when we think about the time period
12:49
in this book we are actually moving we're moving out of the winter phase of this book into the early
12:55
spring a sort of pre spring the change of the seasons and it reminds us of course that we're
13:02
heading to the 25th of March so not that fine to spring for where this story finishes so we're
13:07
getting a bit of compaction of time now things are speeding up no more and long pauses where we're
13:14
in lorian or places like that and here we get a picture of them they went in single file running
13:22
like hounds on a strong scent so that's the three hunters arrogant gimli and legolas running after
13:31
on the trail this is one bit in the film which I thought was done very well didn't think the place
13:39
they chose was exactly correct there are English landscapes that fit this one better you've seen
13:45
it is lovely but downs aren't quite like that but I did like the sort of the way it was filmed with
13:53
them running in this single file so you know well done Peter Jackson on the front so when you're
14:01
splitting up your story how do you connect the different threads this is back to my other side
14:07
of the tapestry I think it's absolutely fascinating the way this chapter is written I'd be I'm really
14:13
love to know in what order it was written and how many changes Tolkien made so if he was just
14:19
simply writing chapter by chapter he was planning out ahead to what Pippin was going to do
14:26
um because it is very carefully crafted in these days the word processes you just go back and
14:31
change everything Tolkien didn't have that so it'd be fascinating to find out how methodical he was
14:37
or did he make details up and then think oh yes Pippin can do that it would be lovely to find out
14:42
there's probably a scholar out there who does know I will be looking out for that that kind of detail
14:47
when I'm reading secondary material about this book but we get the first of these connections
14:54
which Pippin has fled the party of Orcs we find out in the next chapter it's Pippin
15:01
so we see his small footprints he does it on purpose and because he drops his brooch hoping
15:08
someone is following though he's not sure anyone is it's where hope prevails over despair
15:14
and you get that lovely line not idly do the leaves of lorian four again we've got some
15:19
litteration there idly leaves lorian see the poetic side of Tolkien coming out
15:28
and we also have suspense here because we don't know we what's happened to Pippin so when he
15:34
ran out did he then get horribly punished for that or was only one hobby to escape at that point
15:42
so what's happened to the other one we Tolkien is posing us questions which will keep us reading
15:48
to find the answer I mentioned that I feel this chapter brings Legolas more to the fore we had
15:54
we have had a few things said by him in the fellowship of the ring not that much he's the most
15:59
silent of the characters but we do get here a sense that he is emotionally attached to the hobbits
16:09
which is rare because when you think about it he doesn't tend to talk about his emotions very much
16:14
he says come on let us go the thought of those merry young folk driven like cattle burns my heart
16:23
so yeah he does like the hobbits new splash and it's and I think it's partly because when you've
16:28
got a company of nine people you're juggling lots of characters so inevitably some get less time
16:35
saying things and now we've got an opportunity here for Legolas to come forward
16:39
because he's one of three and you'll see there's much more we learn about him
16:44
so they cover 12 leagues that day so remember the conversion that's 36 miles
16:52
service I've ever walked in a day is 20 miles on the Brecken Beacons
16:57
I'm not an elf so 36 miles seems to me to be doable but a long way and they come to
17:05
another decision point because they have to work out if they carry on tracking at night
17:10
and in a way Pippin here has made the decision for them because they've discovered that
17:14
there will be traces and signs that they have to look out for so they err on the side of caution
17:21
though Argonne does says you does say you give the choice to an ill chooser he still fills as though
17:28
he is the one who has caused the various disasters to happen or he hasn't made the right decisions
17:34
as he's gone along though it does turn out to be thanks to the presiding fate of this world
17:41
the right choices another thread here look out how Gimli mentions Frodo and the glass
17:49
it's done as a I wish we had the glass to help us see but it is a reminder of the other
17:57
characters and the more important quest that they are supporting that's happening so looking at
18:03
it as an author you're thinking don't forget what the story is really about when the characters
18:08
aren't here refer to them in an actual way just to keep it ticking away in our minds that we need
18:14
to know what's happening to Frodo and to Sam so they do sleep briefly and when they wake in the
18:23
dawn I'm afraid there isn't a annoying side to Legolas isn't there which is the I told you so
18:27
side so yeah I mean we're not all none of us are perfect but when they when they wake up that
18:37
next morning Legolas is standing gazing northwards into the darkness thoughtful and silent as a young
18:44
tree in a windless night they are far far away he said sadly turning to Aragon I know in my heart
18:51
that they have not rested this night only an eagle could overtake them now he was the one who
18:56
wanted to keep going so it's not quite I told you so but I think it's implied and then there's a
19:02
hint here of the last point I wanted to mention about the presence of Saruman and it's expressed
19:11
like this there is some will that that lends speed to our foes and sets an unseen barrier before us
19:19
awareness that is in the heart more than the limb so this is Aragon expressing how difficult he's
19:26
finding this tracking job Legolas agrees that that's what's going on but we do get a sense of a
19:35
malign magic a presence a force however you like to express that in the land which which prepares
19:42
the way for the much more developed form of this that we will see eventually in Ederas
19:48
and what's happened to Theoden so this second dawn is the one where we get a red dawn
19:56
it's actually it's the third time sorry it's the third day where they get a red dawn and
20:03
there's a mood change here so we've had the three days of the chase and on the third day
20:09
Legolas wakes them up with a wake awake it is a red dawn he doesn't say that line about
20:14
blood has been spilled this night or anything like that that's a addition in the film he says instead
20:21
strange things await us by the eaves of the forest good or evil I do not know but we are called
20:28
so we had one sense of a malign presence forcing them back slowing them down but Legolas is saying
20:35
there is another force is this a moment where Gandalf's coming into the area is there a hint here
20:43
that a different force is entering the picture could be that but certainly there is a sense of
20:50
not exactly optimism but energy I think is the best way of putting this so on they run
20:57
there's a description here of the three of them running or in fact this isn't the first of the
21:05
descriptions but this particular one it's on page 31 in my edition actually helps establish
21:11
the different characteristics of the races so I do want to underline that it isn't comic
21:18
isn't the dwarves aren't put there for their laughter value they were going slowly now and
21:23
given his back was bent stone hard other the dwarves in labor or journey but this endless chase
21:29
began to tell on him and all hope failed in his heart so it's actually almost like a mental state
21:35
as well as a physical state our goal walked behind him grim and silent stooping now and again
21:40
to scan some print or markup on the ground only Legolas still stacked as likely as ever his feet
21:48
hardly seeming to press the grass leaving no footprints as he passed but in the way bread of the
21:54
elves he found all the sustenance that he needed and he could sleep if sleep it could be called by
22:00
men resting his mind in the strange paths of Elvis dreams even as he walked open eyed in the light
22:07
of this world so we get a sense of his other nature his otherworldly nature and the idea that
22:15
the elves are partly always partly in some other place some other world and I think we've had
22:21
hints of this there was a discussion about time when they were on the Great River that Legolas
22:27
has with Frodo but again we're getting the sense of Legolas as being this being more elf less
22:35
we're not taking him for granted as a companion we're seeing more of the elven side of Legolas
22:40
and of course he's a long way away from any other elf characters as well which makes him stand out
22:46
after having been Legolas being the one who's most disappointed that we they've less
22:51
they've sort of lost the opportunity to catch up he in this day is being the most positive
22:57
he says read oft is found at the rising of the sun read that's an old English word means wisdom
23:04
if you've heard of the old Anglo-Saxon king called F already unready he doesn't mean he didn't
23:11
get ready for you know going to work on time it meant that he was unwise unread so it
23:20
read a means wisdom so wisdom is often found at the rising of the sun there is a word here that I
23:26
thought might be helpful to gloss so they've moved into an empty space that they're surprised
23:31
they don't meet more farmers herdsmen and so on we find out the reason why in a minute
23:39
but the word use for this is the word world w-o-l-d there are places in the UK
23:47
and have world in their title so it is again an old word and it means a high uncultivated
23:55
tract of land so more like a more is in that kind of idea so I thought that would help just
24:02
tell you what a world is and we get when they're standing up they're looking ahead they get this
24:09
moment that I certainly enjoy and I think many of you probably will do which is when they see
24:15
the riders of Rohan riding towards them and arrogance shown that he has this skill of listening
24:23
out for when he's tracking which is an interesting skill I think it's the first time we've seen this in
24:29
use pretty sure it is and it might be anytime he does it but it probably works in this areas of
24:37
large uncultivated land like this probably works better as a skill but anyway he says many
24:44
eyes many many riders sorry many riders on Swiss steeds coming towards us and then the
24:51
neglects goes yeah yeah yeah that's right there are 105 you know is their hair and bright are their
24:57
spears their leader is very tall and wow you know and that makes arrogant smile keen on the eyes of
25:07
the else you said and then a legless has this wonderful dismissive line he says wow you know
25:11
it's only five leagues distance 15 miles to you and me a lovely little bit of humor but also
25:19
we I think we all enjoy seeing legless flex he is elven this they take the decision to sit down and
25:26
wait and this gives them a chance to have a brief discussion about who is coming towards them
25:34
so one of the things you want to do as a rider is not spend too much giving information and great
25:42
so you can do it in discussions like this it's much easier we have heard of this culture before
25:48
if we cast our mind back to the council of Elrond it was one of the details in that
25:54
Gandalf was telling his story so we've had a bit of an introduction
26:00
but here we get a potted history and like a couple of lines about their history
26:05
he calls them true hearted but and bold and obviously wedded you know their culture is the
26:12
horse culture and they have songs rather than books again this is all sort of chimes with the
26:18
sort of Anglo-Saxon world really and he calls them children of men I either from younger days
26:28
this reminds me a bit of the description of Arthur's cult in Segalwayne and the green night where
26:35
the cult is described as childlike interesting adjective but it I think it is trying to sense that
26:43
the the idea here is that they are people from an earlier time that the beginnings of culture
26:54
he mentions that they are akin to the bardings that's the people around sort of
26:59
like town that area and beyondings beyond the shape-changer in the woods so they come from the north
27:05
that's where they've come from and they also refer here to the rumor that was repeated I think
27:12
it's at the council of Elrond that they send horses tribute to Mordor and this is one of those
27:19
questions that's going to be aired in this chapter and Argonne stands with Boromir by rejecting
27:26
the rumor and we soon learn that he actually has deep knowledge having ridden with the riders
27:33
earlier on in his life we get the wonderful arrival of the riders of Rohan note here the
27:42
Tokyo is so so much thinking about the horses in association with Rohan that the people are
27:50
described pretty much like horses the men that rode them match them well match the horses
27:55
tall and long-limbed their hair flax and pale flowed under the light helms and streamed in long
28:02
braids behind them their faces were stern and keen so they have means to so is it just a bit of
28:09
fun description that I love the drama of this moment where the three are hidden by their cloaks
28:17
and they're not spotted until they stand up and I think when you think of the film version they
28:23
pretty much took the stage directions from the book and transposed them immediately into the film
28:28
so I can't help as much as I try and get rid of thinking about the film I can't help but think of
28:35
choreography of the horses sort of turning round and spinning in a circle and ending up the
28:43
spears pointing at the interlopers it was well done by the stud riders but Tolkien got their first
28:51
so they're honoring Tolkien. Here we meet our man Ermer and they're citing each other up
28:59
Ermer shows that he has good judgement because he doesn't immediately run them through
29:02
a sphere I doesn't treat them like he's just treated the orcs they have a conversation
29:08
but there is a healthy dose of suspicion and the particular
29:13
the particular sort of flashpoint between Ermer and Gimli is
29:18
Ermer thinks that the lady of the golden wood is a sort of sorcerer who traps people. Few escape
29:25
her nets they say and this of course sets Gimli off as a red rag to a ball in Gimli's eyes
29:32
and it starts this sort of little theme that we weave through this time with Rohan
29:39
where Gimli and Ermer are often bantering with each other about this it goes all the way to the end of
29:45
the book. Remember what I said about as an author you don't want to do great slabs of explanation
29:53
as part of the narrative here we get Ermer describing the geopolitical situation and it feels
29:59
natural it's necessary information that's really the rule only give the information when it feels
30:06
necessary to release it otherwise it feels like padding and the visitors need to know what's going
30:13
on and because I think Eragon is sensing the leadership qualities of young Ermer
30:23
he did he declares himself which is a big moment because Rohan though it is a separate kingdom
30:31
he would be or will be their overlord and he's wanting to assert that at this point and get
30:39
co-operation as is the age old tradition between Rohan and Gondor so he throws back his cloak the
30:47
Elven she flittered as he grasped it and the bright blade of Anduril shone like a sudden flame as
30:53
he swept it out. Elendil he cried I am Eragon son of Erathon and am called Alessa the Elfstone
31:02
Duna Dan the heir of Isildur and Lendil son of Gondor here is the sword that was broken and is
31:09
forged again will you aid me or thwart me choose swiftly gives them a choice and I suppose one
31:20
reaction would have been you're crazy you're you're deluded and some of the people listening are
31:25
more of that sort of point of view but Ermer is actually he takes a moment to think about it
31:33
and he is awed he senses that this is a big moment for him to decide so the the point of decision
31:42
is actually delayed to the moment when they part but they they go from that to talking about
31:51
the orcs that they killed because Eragon asked did you see our friends and this reveals an
32:00
interesting little fact that the Rohan culture has stories about halfling so they know what
32:10
Eragon is referring to when he describes them as halflings oh in fact actually it's Gimli who
32:16
calls them a halfling Eragon is referring to them as they look like children or dwarves assuming
32:22
that the Rohan culture doesn't know and again this is one of those lovely bits of weaving that's
32:27
going on because there's a discussion between Mary and Theodin about the cultures knowing each
32:33
other which is rather lovely detail it's interesting that Rohan knows about halflings whereas the
32:38
ends don't discuss possibly because they're from the north and that's where the hobbits have settled
32:45
we also because they have told us actually you were chasing those orcs Ermer says we've destroyed
32:52
them there were no hobbits we're left wondering have Mary and Pippin got caught up in the slaughter are
32:59
they dead we hope not it's a kind of story well what they won't be dead but we've just lost
33:04
Boromir so there is a bit of jeopardy here and then we get a couple of other little details
33:09
that want to bring your attention to we get a recap on the role of shadow facts at this point
33:16
it's good to foreshadow things about to become a big factor in a story we did hear about shadow
33:23
facts way back in the council of Elrond in the account of Gandalf fleeing from Rohan
33:31
fleeing from Saruman in fact and now we get again a story about shadow facts with a sense of how
33:40
important he is to the Rohan culture and we also have the foreshadowing of the kind of reception
33:48
that Gandalf is going to get when he goes to see Therden so plant the seas early so that they can
33:56
bloom at the right moment is the moral of that author tip there and we also get the final
34:03
totting up of how far they've gone now ms says 45 leagues so that's about 135 miles isn't it
34:15
something like that that's pretty good going but I suspect it's further because I think he's
34:20
measuring from the moment they left the emin wheel so it's even further than that but that's quite
34:27
nice actually have a distance put on it and it's why you can draw pretty accurate maps a bit of
34:33
earth as a result because talking has more or less paced it out in his own mind we also have another
34:40
tying off of a thread so turn over your tapestry look at the back we're tying off the thread about
34:48
the tribute plate paid to Mordor Emma explains that there's nothing like that at all that actually
34:56
they've been raided and their horses have been stolen when you understand how deeply they care
35:02
for their horses you'd understand they wouldn't hand them over to the enemy but Emma is the one
35:07
who starts to sound the note very clearly that it is saraman who is their foe it is ill dealing with
35:13
such a foe he is a wizard both cunning and dwimmer crafty having many guises I think this is one of the
35:23
lines they kept in the film um dwimmer wasn't explained in context here not explained in the film
35:32
but looking it up dwimmer is an old english word meaning illusion or sorcery so that's rather nice
35:41
it's a i think we should bring that word back that when we talk about illusions we can talk about
35:46
dwimmer after try and use that somewhere myself and he hints ahead to the troubles happening ederas
35:53
and we unless you've got very good memory or read it as ilian times that many of us have we
35:58
won't know or hardly remember that the reason why Gandalf had such a rocky reception was because of
36:06
an eduphyser to the king and the king himself being hostile but this is a reminder so we're ready
36:13
for that encounter that's going to happen in a couple of chapters time we get here an account
36:20
of the battle from the point of view of the writers of Rohan this is interesting because we get
36:28
the battle again from the point of view of the hobbits so we're playing around with the timeline
36:34
but it's fun to read it first from the point of view of the victors so we know when we reach
36:40
the pipin and merry part who's going to win but we don't know how they survive so you don't tell us
36:45
everything we just get the the broad outline of what's happened in that battle because from pipin
36:51
and merry's point of view they sort of see bits shadows moments arrows coming out of the dark
36:58
so it's a clever way of explaining a little skirmish like that we also have one of those
37:06
wonderful moments when Tolkien shows his wisdom i hadn't thought about this one but it's
37:13
similar to the moment that we get when Gandalf tells Frodo you know all about how all those
37:22
and if through these those times all you've got all you have to do is decide what to do with the
37:26
time you know that that phrase which happens right at the beginning and finish up with the ring
37:31
here is a similar sentiment but this is a discussion between
37:37
Ermer and Eragon where Eragon is showing his wisdom and Ermer's question is how shall a man judge
37:47
what to do in such times Eragon's answer is really wise as he has ever judged good and ill
37:58
have not changed since yesterday year so i'm writing it this at a time where a lot of humanitarian
38:06
loving generous instincts are being ignored in the sort of international politics of things
38:19
political violence national violence all sorts of things are going on so well we're living in
38:25
and actually it's very good as a way of saying what should we do at these times we should judge
38:31
as we have ever judged our values should remain steady good and ill have not changed since yesterday
38:38
just because the person doing the evil may look different what they do should still be judged by
38:45
the same not excused judge by the same yardstick and this is where Ermer shows his worth by his choice
38:53
he's not given a choice to reject the ring which was the other way of judging character that we see
38:58
in this book he risks his own status at the court by deciding to help the three hunters by giving them
39:07
horses we can sort of family locate him amongst our heroes and there's a lovely moment here again
39:15
which foregrounds legolas and his nature and his choice to how he rides which is where he takes off
39:25
the bridal of the horses given arod was his name but legolas asked him to take off saddle and rain
39:31
i need them not he said and leap lightly up and to their wonder arod was tame and willing beneath him
39:38
moving here and there without a spoken word such was the elbush way with all good beasts
39:45
gimli was lifted up behind his friend and he clung to him not much more at ease and Sam
39:50
Gamji in a boat uh noticed deep lightly not a little bit of talkinian alliteration to enjoy
39:58
so we get to the last third of this chapter leaving behind or in fact the riders ride off
40:05
they head in different directions and our hunters reach the battlefield where the ashes were
40:11
still hot and smoking so there is no sign of the hobbits and so we have this acute moment of
40:18
jeopardy that they are lost forever in the wilds and this leads to a little bit of
40:25
hand-winging really gimli says on perhaps they should never come on the journey that sort of sentiment
40:32
and we get another piece of wisdom here from arrogant he's really coming to the fore here is a new
40:37
fountain wisdom he says there are some things that is that it is better to begin than to refuse
40:45
even though the end may be dark i think this is often when you think about the people who resist
40:52
under totalitarian regimes and those sorts of people it's something's better to begin even though
40:58
the end may be dark it's better to be that person than the collaborator it's better to be the brave
41:03
person who fights for or tries to defend what they believe in even if it fails than the person who
41:12
acquiesces so resistance is what arrogant is counselling resistance to inactivity do it do
41:21
what you think take the risk and the last part of this chapter happens under a chestnut tree now
41:28
I wanted just to highlight this because as part of our excavation of this book you get little moments
41:34
which the film has never touched and this is one of them and I wanted to mention the chestnut tree
41:40
because my mother-in-law who has passed away now she absolutely loved this section and she
41:46
talked to me about it she mentioned particularly the way the brown leaves of the chestnut tree
41:55
now stood out stiff and rubbed together like many cold cracked hands taking comfort in the warmth
42:02
if you look at a chestnut tree there has a few leaves remaining on it because remember this is the
42:09
far end of winter there are wrinkled up they do look like hands so it's picking up something about
42:15
chestnut trees very economically but also hinting here of the way trees have personalities
42:24
and that's an important thing to bear in mind when we enter fangorn but before we get to meet the
42:30
ants we do have a moment to reflect on what it is about fangorn that might be hidden there
42:38
and again songs come to the rescue and written records have no mention
42:43
legolas says i've heard nothing of this in my own land save only songs that tell how the anoddrym
42:50
that men called ants dwelt there long ago for fangorn is old old even as the elves would
42:57
reckon it i do wonder why elves haven't wandered down it's not that far um and i'm sure
43:04
the ladrill and kelobal know about it so uh legolas it's about time you get to know it's not that far
43:12
away from your woodland realm don't know how many leagues it is but it's not so very distant
43:17
anyway we're going with the fiction that they don't know what's there because that's more exciting
43:22
and um but we've got the hint that prepares the way and then we get to the final part which is
43:29
we've been told by airmer that sirement is often seen in different guises and here we get a
43:36
mysterious moment when they're on the watch gimli is sitting by the fire and suddenly he looks up
43:45
on the edge of the fire lights did an old bent man leaning on a staff and wrapped in a great cloak
43:52
his wide brimmed hat was pulled down over his eyes and they don't attack him they challenge him
44:00
or invite him trying to work out who he is and at the same time as this is happening the horses
44:05
are running off with making a happy sound they're fleeing but they seem to be happy to flee
44:11
that's explained in a future chapter i'm not sure that the identity of this mysterious old band
44:19
is ever totally explained i'll look out for it on this read through because here when someone says
44:28
i think it was sirement airmer said he walks about like an old man hooded in clout
44:34
argon says yes but he had a hat and what wizard do we know who wears a hat
44:40
but i got a feeling if i remember this detail correctly that that gandoff says it wasn't him
44:46
which means it must have been some kind of projection or person some sort of presence of sirement
44:54
anyway let's see if we can clear up that mystery as we do a very careful read through at this point
45:01
and so our heroes are left high and dry they're in the middle of
45:06
but on the edge of row haven't they just by the eaves of fangirl with no horses and the horses
45:12
they promise to return so that's a bit embarrassing for them additura and they haven't found
45:17
pipin and merry so we have to wait to the next chapter to find out if our two hobbit characters
45:23
have survived their horrible time with the orcs
45:31
thanks for listening to myth makers podcast brought to you by the oxford center for fantasy
45:38
visit oxford center for fantasy dot org to join in the fun find out about our online courses
45:45
in person stays in oxford plus visit our shop for great gifts tell a friend and subscribe
45:52
wherever you find your favorite podcasts worldwide