Latest / TezTalks Radio - Tezos Ecosystem Podcast / 96: Curating Digital Art on Tezos with Objkt’s Ombeline Rosset

Transcript

96: Curating Digital Art on Tezos with Objkt’s Ombeline Rosset · TezTalks Radio - Tezos Ecosystem Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Tez Talks Radio.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I am your host, marissa True, and I am joined today by Ombeline Rosé, a digital art curator and community manager of the beloved Tezos Art Marketplace, objectcom.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: So Ombeline first joined us on the show all the way back in 2021 and has been a prominent supporter of the Tezos art ecosystem since.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: So, hi, ombeline, how are you today?
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Hello, I'm very well, thank you.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: How are you today?
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Hello, I'm very well thank you, how are you?
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: I'm great, thank you.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: I would love if you could first kind of reintroduce yourself and your role in the Tezos ecosystem.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, well, it's a long story actually, but I joined Object in 2021.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: After being a Navit collector of pieces on Ink at Nunk, I joined Object, which I discovered thanks to my collection activity, because they launched in order.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: You were able to bid on auctions on Ink at Nunk thanks to Object, so I was one of the first to be on an auction of a piece by Laurence Fuller, which was an amazing piece, thanks to Object, and I joined Object in 2021,.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: I was their first employee and I became the curator.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very long.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Did you develop your skills as a curator on the job or did you have some sort of practice before you joined the blockchain art universe?
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: So it's a bit unusual, but my grandfather used to be an art expert in antiques from the 18th century, so he showed me a lot of pieces.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: He brought me to auction houses and I was used to seeing a lot of art all the time and he taught me art history, but mostly art history prior to the 20th century.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Art was my hobby.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: I was a lawyer so it's a bit unrelated, but art was my hobby.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I didn't do curation before.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: I did some curation when I was a collector, when I noticed that there were a lot of emerging artists on Iketnung who were undiscovered, because it was a bit like the jungle, but a good jungle.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: You know, you enter the website and you didn't know what you were going to come across.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: And sometimes you discovered some gems and people didn't know about it, so I wanted to share about it.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: So I started this thread called Hidden Gems on Twitter, which was a kind of curation, and then I learned on the go and now that Kika has joined Object.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Kika is an artist who also has a lot of experience as a curator and she joined one year ago, so I learned a lot with her.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: I think it's amazing that you came from a legal background but that art sort of ran in your family line.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: So you tell me what the experiences were like as you kind of began curating, as there was this huge eruption of new artists in the Tezos community.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: What was it like trying to identify quality pieces when there was just so much emerging at the same time?
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: It was a lot of time spent looking at art and fortunately, I really like that, it's really my hobby.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: So I was looking, uh, daily at the new pieces mint in an object and they are quite a lot, and I didn't identifying the new artists and seeing the new pieces by artists I already knew.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: But the challenge was to highlight both new artists and artists who were already there, and it was always a lot of joy curating, but also a little bit a part which was heartbreaking, which was that I couldn't highlight everyone who was good.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: There are so many great artists on Tezos that it's actually impossible with just the front page and Twitter to highlight them all.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: And there are a lot of artists I like who I haven't highlighted yet.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: But it was also a lot of discussions with artists.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: When you artist John and they're new to Twitter, they're new to everything you don't have any information about them.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: So you know you want to learn more about them, so you discuss with them and it was very eye-opening for me and I learned a lot of things and, well, it was quite exciting to discuss with them.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: So, given a lot of your experience in curating art, you kind of did on the job.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: So you had, you know, the curation of your personal collection.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: You had a bit of an arts background, but when it came to the digital art space, you were figuring it out as you went and identifying quality art, kind of as it presented itself to you.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: What were some of the challenges that you had in that early time?
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: And then, looking back on it, what was sort of the answer to that challenge?
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Well, my challenge was when it was a kind of art I was not used to.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: I didn't dive deep into photography before.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: I didn't know a lot about generative art, so the answer for this was to learn by myself a lot.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: Actually, there are some resources which help, for example, for generative art.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: I really like what le random did.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: They did a timeline of generative art and um and uh.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, also talking to to artists, for example, to generative artists.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Who, who explained to me what was good or not, and learning on the go.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: That was how because I think you also started your role at a time where it was much harder to find the information on these new genres of art that were emerging, so you kind of had to again learn as you went, which is much harder than I think people realize.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: So another thing I wanted to touch upon is that an element of your role as a curator was also kind of a community management role.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: So can you explain to me what that role entails and perhaps some of the things that people don't know about community management and how you keep the sort of the art ecosystem thriving?
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: you keep the sort of the art ecosystem thriving.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: So, uh, it was at at first, when I was the, the first and only I did that more than now, where I'm more focused on creation.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: But it involves speaking to everyone in the ecosystem.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: It involved being aware of all events happening, because that's the life of the ecosystem.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Especially on Tezos, events play a very huge role.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: It's also involved onboarding artists, but you know you have people who onboard other people by themselves.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: They are already so invested in Tezos that they do that.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: We have actually a lot of Tezos ambassadors, in a way, who are doing so much for the ecosystem even without me doing something.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: There is PocoBelly Bailey, who does amazing YouTube videos about art on Tezos, and now we have a community manager who is called Wai Zep and she joined quite early on and she has been doing spaces and communicating with people, also doing the support, and which was much needed because there are a lot more questions now than in 2021.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: So, yes, but it's also a lot of education to do, because at the moment it's still not always that straightforward, especially when you have all the artists who come from the traditional, traditional art background and they're completely new to the space.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: You need to do a lot of education, which is quite exciting too.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: So that's part of it, a small part of it actually.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: So, in your time again, since you started in 2021, I think the Tezos art space has evolved.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: A time.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: They were sold, but they didn't really expect that at the beginning, so it was a bit like a space between friends.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: And then people managed to make a living out of art, which is cool.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: I saw, for example, some artists from Brazil who told me they leave their job to sell their art.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: And then there was the bear market, which was hard for all artists, but actually, on Tezos, most artists stayed, compared to other blockchains, because they were there to share their art, and the thing is, there has always been a community.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: Even through the hard times, people remain together, which is not a given in that space.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so so people remain there, remained in the space.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Artists have always supported other artists, so that's something which didn't change.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: What changed, however, is the size of the space, because I see that every day the new artists joining, the number of pieces minted is much bigger.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: There has also been a shift of taste of the collectors, because at first they were looking for generative art, then now they're looking more for AI art.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: That's what I see.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: Now they're looking more for AI art.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: That's what I see.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: I also hope that there is going to be time for the other genres, like photography, because we have a lot, for example, of great photographers.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I hope that time will come too.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: But that's how it changed.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: But now I hope that we will continue to have more collectors coming, because as artists arrive, then it's good if there are some collectors who arrive at the same time.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Sorry, please go on.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: I also wanted to mention that there has been more institutional recognition of the art of Tezos because of the museum's initiatives, like Oria at the Musée d'Orsay.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: We also had, quite early on, a partnership with the Musée Granée, so the museum meets museum.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Sorry, I'm speaking French.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: So we have more recognition by some traditional art institutions over the years compared to 2021.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Musée d'Orsay was one of the biggest art moments for Tezos in the last year or so, and I think what has always been very clear is that Tezos has an art culture to it that makes it very hard to dismiss, and the community has grown healthily year over year, especially during difficult times like the bear market, where, I think you're right it was really wonderful to see artists supporting each other at a time where, you know, art collecting wasn't as active.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: So, if we fast forward to now and being in 2025, what's it going to take to continue to grow the tezos community so that we don't we don't settle here.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: We keep helping it expand I think there are maybe two things, which are first, more education and more onboarding.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: So we need to bring more collectors to tezos, and maybe some collectors from the traditional art space, because they they're missing out on a lot which is happening on tezos.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: There is a whole art ecosystem here that is very special and that people don't know yet.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: So that needs to be something to be done.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: And and there are initiatives which are already uh, I forgot the English word but already taking place.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: And then I got lost in my thoughts.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: That's okay, I agree with you.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: I agree with you that kind of getting more institutional partners in to sort of recognize Tezos as where a lot of legitimate art is being created is a huge step and also, you know, kind of like this continued investment of energy into this space and making sure that artists feel supported or feel like the resources are there for them to keep building with.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: I think what's been wonderful is that, you know, beyond Hick and Nank and beyond object, there was a huge growth of different marketplaces and platforms for artists of different genres and styles.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: So what would your advice be for each of those platforms and marketplaces to kind of help them grow or build their own sort of recognition or activity?
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: For me, it's still the same advice.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: It's always the onboarding of collectors and more education, because all the marketplaces in the space we, we have actually the same, the same objective.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: There are a lot of artists and not enough collectors at the moment, which is why, also, a lot of marketplaces have closed down.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Well, it's not the only reason, but the the imbalance between the two it makes things hard.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: So it is finding ways to attract new, new collectors, because I don't think there is a problem with the art.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: The art is amazing in the space, so there is that aspect.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: The second aspect is discoverability, because, as there is so much art, then there needs to be some discoverability tools or curation in place.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: Like on object, they are going to introduce a feed which recommends pieces to you personally, a personal feed which recommends pieces to you, in addition to the curation, which will involve the improved discoverability, and I know that other marketplaces have tried a lot of things to improve it on the side as well.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: That's something that we need to to solve in the space, especially for new, new people who are new to the space that need that.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: So yeah, so the discoverability tool would not only help the artists in terms of having their work showcased or be more visible to the online community, but also for collectors who are sort of entering the space for the first time.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: They know where to look as a means of exploring, because I think for many collectors coming into the blockchain art space not necessarily exclusively to Tezos it is very overwhelming.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: There is so much creativity out there and, as you said before when it came to learning about new mediums or new genres like generative art and AI art, if you don't understand it, it becomes quite a challenge to start collecting, because you want to make sure that what you're collecting is the quality piece that discoverability looks like.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Is this tools?
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Like you know, content feeds on marketplaces?
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Is this about sort of plugins that help artists feature their work more readily?
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: What are sort of the simple ways we can improve that discoverability?
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know if there are simple ways.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: I think it will be a combination of things.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: So these feeds can help, because when you land on the website and you see pieces which might which you might like, then that's an easy way to discover new pieces.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: But I also know that a lot of collectors find other collectors who have the same taste as them and then they they look through the collections and then they find artists they like.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: So it's also highlighting collectors as well.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: Like not only artists, but collectors, because they have an important role in the ecosystem.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: People were already there who influence people who are white, and it's actually you can get lost looking at the collections of other collectors and you discover so much good art that it's you don't see time pass, uh.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, so on objects sorry, I'm talking about this also because that's that's my home we are highlighting collectors by doing interviews of them and that that will help other people to find maybe a like-minded collector.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: So In all the years that you've been a part of the ecosystem, and you are now soon to be leaving your role at Objectcom.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: What does the future have in store for you and how will you sort of continue to be a part of the Tezos community going forward?
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: So I'm not sure yet about the future.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: So I had some difficult personal circumstances and I'm trying to sort that out, but I'm for sure going to stay in the ecosystem.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: It's really not only a place for art but also a place where I made friends and it's really a special place for me During all my time as a curator.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: I didn't collect because I wanted to avoid conflict of interest.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: When you collect, you cannot resell time as a curator.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: I didn't collect because I wanted to avoid conflict of interest.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: When you collect, you cannot resell so so it's a lot of.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: It would have been a lot of headaches, so I stopped collecting and now I will be able to collect again, which I'm looking forward to because I have a lot of pieces bookmarked on object.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I will, I will, but I will also continue to do some curation, but on my personal profile, and I won't be able to stop speaking to people about NFTs because I do that in real life.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: So I will continue to do that.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: But yeah, in any case, I will remain in this space.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's obviously a very bittersweet thing, one that you know you will no longer be at objectcom, but the fact that you will now be able to start collecting again for your own sake and curating for your own sake, so that it's almost like you have a shopping spree on your hands All of the art that you've had an eye on over the past few years.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: You can finally start collecting, which I think sounds like a very exciting opportunity In terms of sort of any advice you would give people who are entering Tezos for the first time this year and again it's so much bigger than it once was when it was just Hickenonk and Objectcom what's your advice to them about where they should start and their easiest way to kind of get involved and join this community just like you did?
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Well, to get started, I would recommend to see the video by Pocobelli, who did a video to explain how art on Tezos works.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: It's his most recent video, I think, and it's a long video where he explains everything well.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: So that's the first step.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Then the second step is to set up a Twitter account.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: It's X now, but I still say Twitter.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Well, because everything unfortunately still happens on Twitter, so you need to be there to check the pulse of the community.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: Then the third one is to join events, because when you are a collector, you discover a lot of new artists through events, and when you are an artist, you get a lot of new collectors who discover your art and it's also a fun moment your art and it's also a fun moment.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Then they can look at the curations on objects, but also now we have gallery exhibitions, so they can look at that to find your art.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: And then, now that we have the personalized feed, and every time they see a piece they like, they can bookmark it.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: And every time they see a piece they like, they can bookmark it.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: I also recommend to do curations by themselves, because we have that now you can do curations and you actually get rewarded with referrals when people buy through your curations, but it allows people to find you and to say, okay, I like also this kind of art and to discuss.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: And yeah, the final advice would be not to be afraid to talk to people, because people are very, very approachable.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: In this space.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: I think you're completely right that even just talking to people is a great first step, because the ecosystem is extremely friendly and they are very welcoming.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: And I think often what happens in this space is people get intimidated because so many people have been here for so much longer that they fear asking sort of the basic questions.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: But there's a culture of always being super helpful.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: So I think that's always going to be an easy way through, and it sounds like the overarching advice is to just get involved, just to start.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: It's the easiest way forward, whether it's about starting to collect or just browsing online, and I also think it's wonderful that Tezos has all of these kind of IRL events as well, so you know you're not sort of on your own staring through your browser.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: There are chances to really interact with both artists, other collectors and other members of the community, so that you never think you have to discover all of this by yourself, do you agree?
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: So it's amazing and actually I'm going to Paris very soon because there is NFT Paris, but there's a lot of side events at the same time and I planned to have coffee with artists to meet them one by one.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: But now I'm wondering maybe my schedule will be too full because there are so many people I want to meet.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: I won't have the time, but it's always a super nice moment to meet with people and see who is behind the twitter account, and I always felt very welcome, even when I met artists who I look up to in the real, I mean in the traditional art world.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: If I met the artists in a gallery, I would be too shy and I would have difficulties to say hello.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, when I, when I meet people from the NFT space, I think it's simpler.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Things go quite easily.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think everyone's.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: There's a culture of kind of inclusivity and making sure that everyone feels welcome.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: There's no sort of exclusivity to it at all.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Actually, it's very much a celebration of everyone and their own expression.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: So I think that's what makes the Tezos art world so unique, and I think it's a large reason why so many people love it.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Ambeline, my final question to you is you know what excites you about the year ahead?
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: What are you looking forward to doing, either on a personal basis or in terms of supporting the community?
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: well, I'm looking forward to continue discovering new artists and keeping in touch with the ones I already know.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: It's uh.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: I'm also looking forward to see how the space will evolve, because everyone is innovating.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Uh, there has been more competition between marketplaces, a lot more marketplaces who closed, but also who opened.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: So it's always.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: It obliges everyone to innovate and I'm looking forward to that.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: I'm also looking forward to seeing more ways, more people exhibiting their pieces, pieces displaying their pieces on a personal level, because at first, the nft space was about buying and having the pieces on online, on the website.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: You could, you could see them, but now more people are thinking about how to display them and uh, and they're having more exhibitions, like you said, and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens in that regard.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the year will be exciting, so I'm very much looking forward to it, even if I will stop working at Object.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Well, I think the Tezos community is going to be sad to see you go.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: I think you've been a major part of objectcom's growth, but I think everyone's going to rest assured that you're not really going very far.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: You're still going to be very much immersed in the community, just in a slightly different role to the one people knew for, which I think is a beautiful thing.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Amaline, thank you so much for taking the time today to share not only your experiences but sort of your insights on what the artist community looks like here on Tezos.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: You know, four years later since you started and I'm sure we'll catch up, hopefully sooner than four years, to see where you're at and how else you're getting involved.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: So, thank you, thank you so much.