Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Violent offender gets out of jail free then rapes and murders 92-year-old woman thanks to "bail reform."

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Violent offender gets out of jail free then rapes and murders 92-year-old woman thanks to "bail reform." · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: We're talking about the so called belt reform, that's what
0:09
Speaker 1: they're calling it. I just don't know how to respond
0:14
Speaker 1: to the mirror Deblasio giving inmates gift cards, MetroCards, movie cards.
0:23
Speaker 1: I mean, if you get a subpoena, you show up
0:27
Speaker 1: to court, you're not supposed to get a gift from
0:31
Speaker 1: the government for showing up. Crime stories with Nancy Grace,
0:43
Speaker 1: New York City will be ringing in the new year
0:45
Speaker 1: with a new set of criminal justice reforms to combat
0:48
Speaker 1: overcrowded jails. About nine hundred accused criminals are expected to
0:52
Speaker 1: be released, and the city will be rewarding them with METS, tickets,
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Speaker 1: movie passes, and gift cards for showing up to Critics
1:00
Speaker 1: say the program rewards criminal behavior. LaMere de Blasio is
1:04
Speaker 1: optimistic the plan will work in the world where we
1:08
Speaker 1: want speedier trials and we want the justice system to work.
1:12
Speaker 1: If small incentives are part of what actually makes it work,
1:17
Speaker 1: then that's a smart policy. Starting January first, the bail
1:20
Speaker 1: reform policy eliminates cash bail and pre trial detention for
1:24
Speaker 1: misdemeanors and most low level felonies, with exceptions like murder, conspiracy,
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Speaker 1: domestic violence cases, and sex crimes. When defendants are released
1:32
Speaker 1: after arrangement, they'll be encouraged to show up for their
1:35
Speaker 1: next court date with promises of sports tickets, subway passes,
1:39
Speaker 1: and other gift cards. I'm having a hard time soaking
1:42
Speaker 1: in what I just heard and digesting that. First of all,
1:45
Speaker 1: let me just start with I didn't know there was
1:47
Speaker 1: such a thing as a low level felony. That's how
1:50
Speaker 1: we call it a felony. If it's low level, it's
1:53
Speaker 1: a misdemeanor, like shoplifting or jaywalking, snatching a plate out
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Speaker 1: of somebody's hand. That those are misdemeanors. Those are a
2:05
Speaker 1: low level. When you get to felony status, nothing is
2:09
Speaker 1: low level. You were just hearing our friend Hazel Sanchez
2:13
Speaker 1: over at CBS two reporting with me right now to
2:17
Speaker 1: break you down and put it back together again. Jason Oceans,
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Speaker 1: New York defense attorney Bobby Chica and former special agent
2:22
Speaker 1: FBI star a Facebook watch series, Curse of Acucor. And
2:27
Speaker 1: now to my favorite paper, The New York Post. Reporter
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Speaker 1: Tina Moore, Tina, what the hey is happening? Now? What happened?
2:40
Speaker 1: What's wrong with du Blasio? I think the idea is
2:43
Speaker 1: to provide incentives to get people to come back to
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Speaker 1: the court. Now that you can no longer issue a
2:48
Speaker 1: warrant for the arrest because they didn't show up, they're
2:51
Speaker 1: trying to give them attentive Okay, I'm trying to take
2:53
Speaker 1: in what you just said. Now that you no longer
2:56
Speaker 1: can't arrest them because they didn't show up, it's you can.
3:01
Speaker 1: You can. You can arrest them that they're going to
3:03
Speaker 1: get out without any fail if you have no cash
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Speaker 1: bail now, so they're just gonna get right back out again.
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Speaker 1: So it truly is a revolving door. In Wow, we
3:11
Speaker 1: wonder why over a million people have left the city
3:14
Speaker 1: of New York. It's all it's all coming into focus
3:17
Speaker 1: right now. Let me understand something to aam or with
3:20
Speaker 1: a so called Bell reform, that's what they're calling it.
3:24
Speaker 1: You don't put up a cash bond. You don't put
3:27
Speaker 1: up a bond. You basically get fingerprinted, you sign your name,
3:31
Speaker 1: and you walk out the door. For some crimes. Yeah, okay,
3:34
Speaker 1: what crimes would that be? Felonies like you pointed out,
3:37
Speaker 1: I think assault would be one where if you slapped
3:40
Speaker 1: somebody so you had an event of that recently, maybe
3:42
Speaker 1: you slapped a stranger in the street and you were
3:45
Speaker 1: taking you were arrested, but the judge knows it. With
3:48
Speaker 1: Dell reform, they're gonna have to just release you with
3:49
Speaker 1: outdale anyway. So they set a court date and they'll
3:51
Speaker 1: let you go. And if you don't come back to court,
3:54
Speaker 1: if you don't show up, what happens nothing. I mean,
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Speaker 1: this person I'm talking about about this this week hit
4:00
Speaker 1: another person after they were released and which was arrested again.
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Speaker 1: So does this include burglary, drug offense, many drug offenses,
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Speaker 1: even some types of arson and robbery? Yes, yes, yes, Okay,
4:17
Speaker 1: who said that arson is low level? Well who came
4:21
Speaker 1: up with that? I've prosecuted so many arsons. Of course
4:24
Speaker 1: they were related to homicides. But how can that be
4:28
Speaker 1: considered low level? To you KNOWLESO passed in the law
4:30
Speaker 1: by the state legislature, So it's not it's not of
4:33
Speaker 1: the city's doing, even it's what they have on the
4:35
Speaker 1: state level. That's true. But how can setting something a
4:39
Speaker 1: fire and endangering the lives of so many, how can
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Speaker 1: that possibly be considered low level? I mean, this sounds
4:48
Speaker 1: like crime pays, as is pointing out in the New
4:52
Speaker 1: York Post quote The crime pays giveaways build on another
4:56
Speaker 1: Deblasio policy revealed by the Post last that showers freebees,
5:01
Speaker 1: including Mets tickets, on prisoners. I'm sure the Mets are
5:05
Speaker 1: so proud to know their tickets are being given away
5:11
Speaker 1: two criminals, right, I think, I mean, did anybody ask
5:14
Speaker 1: the Mets about this? Tina? I'm not sure about that,
5:17
Speaker 1: but I think it's scared towards the children and the
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Speaker 1: families of people who might have been, you know, in
5:21
Speaker 1: trouble or arrested in jail. Tina, Tina, please understand. I'm
5:26
Speaker 1: not picking on you, I know, but let me I'm
5:28
Speaker 1: picking on Dublasia. Let me understand. And so we're expecting
5:32
Speaker 1: a doper or an arsonist to give the Mets tickets
5:36
Speaker 1: to their child? Wait? Am I understanding that? I don't
5:40
Speaker 1: think they're gonna be out in front of the stay
5:42
Speaker 1: of scalping them illegally. I'm not sure who came up
5:45
Speaker 1: with the idea. Really, I don't. I don't. I don't
5:47
Speaker 1: know what they're thinking. Was I have to been the
5:49
Speaker 1: word incentive, providing incentives for these people to come back
5:53
Speaker 1: to court. Um, but I haven't seen, you know, I
5:56
Speaker 1: don't know who actually came up with the idea or
5:58
Speaker 1: what their rationale was. Also from the post, who is
6:02
Speaker 1: absolutely correct, Mayor Bill Deblasio, and miss he has no
6:06
Speaker 1: idea how much his administration is actually going to spend
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Speaker 1: on tickets to movies and met games to entice criminals
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Speaker 1: and to showing up at court. Right, Bobby Chicone, former
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Speaker 1: special agent FBI, help me, Tina doesn't apparently seem to
6:23
Speaker 1: be worried about this. You live in New York, right, Tina.
6:27
Speaker 1: I'm concerned. I think everybody is here here. You realize
6:29
Speaker 1: that there's a there's a movement right now to make
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Speaker 1: a reforms to the reform, to actually go back and
6:34
Speaker 1: change some things around so that we don't have our
6:37
Speaker 1: hold on I've got to make a note of that.
6:39
Speaker 1: Right now, there's a movement to make reforms to the reforms.
6:44
Speaker 1: I guess, Okay, what are you saying, Chicone? We have
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Speaker 1: to we have to actually stop using the word reforms.
6:52
Speaker 1: These are not reforms. That's where the advocates are using
6:57
Speaker 1: to water down what's happening. This is a of the
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Speaker 1: structure of our system that has provided for the safety
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Speaker 1: of citizens and law enforcement. This is not a reform.
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Speaker 1: A reform is like chewing around the edges of something
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Speaker 1: and changing it. This is a complete dismantling of some
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Speaker 1: things that have been so ingrained in our system with
7:16
Speaker 1: the purpose of providing safety. I can tell you as
7:18
Speaker 1: someone who worked gangs in New York City in the
7:20
Speaker 1: eighties and nineties. I worked Jamaican posses in Brooklyn, and
7:24
Speaker 1: I worked in gangs in Washington Heights. I can tell
7:27
Speaker 1: you they know this system. They are laughing now. They
7:30
Speaker 1: are enjoying this new movement to make things easier for
7:34
Speaker 1: the criminals. They will take advantage of them. And I
7:37
Speaker 1: don't know if it's the law of unintended consequences, but
7:40
Speaker 1: there will be people that get hurt and killed, both
7:44
Speaker 1: citizens and law enforcement who because of this dismantling and
7:47
Speaker 1: restructuring climbs TOAs with Nancy Grace, let me explain what
8:06
Speaker 1: Bobby check In, former Special Agent FBI just said. In
8:10
Speaker 1: my mind, Jason Notion's New York defense attorney, Jason, don't
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Speaker 1: even and your usual usual slippery as an ill way
8:20
Speaker 1: try to argue with me about this. Every felony I
8:25
Speaker 1: tried practically, I would say this is anecdotal ninety five
8:29
Speaker 1: percent of the felonies that I took to trial. The
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Speaker 1: purp had been convicted before. It could be on a
8:36
Speaker 1: peeping tom misdemeanor, it could be on a shoplifting misdemeanor.
8:40
Speaker 1: It could be on a simple assault misdemeanor. It could
8:44
Speaker 1: be a bad check misdemeanor. But they had a record.
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Speaker 1: And now these people are not only not putting up
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Speaker 1: a bond, they're getting a gift card, Mets tickets, movie tickets,
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Speaker 1: cell phone, what do you say, cell phone? Prepaid bird.
9:00
Speaker 1: You know, the next time somebody, a doper comes in
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Speaker 1: your office, he's gonna empty out a pocket full of
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Speaker 1: phone cards as payment. Are you ready for filling them
9:10
Speaker 1: on eBay? Listen? The number of the number of crimes
9:14
Speaker 1: that now fall under this Bell reform is beyond what
9:19
Speaker 1: you're just you know, never mind second degree manslaughter criminally,
9:23
Speaker 1: well I'm adding this to my list. Second degree manslaughter, stalking,
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Speaker 1: stalking as a hate crime, UH, aggravated assault on a child,
9:34
Speaker 1: stop stop. I can't write that fast. It's ridiculous. A
9:39
Speaker 1: drunk driver get arrested for killing somebody and get released
9:42
Speaker 1: right away. That person who was arrested for running over
9:45
Speaker 1: someone and killing them all drunk is on the street again.
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Speaker 1: Aggravated vehicular assault. Wait, wait, let me correct you, miss
9:52
Speaker 1: Tina more from the New York Post. Let me correct you.
9:56
Speaker 1: Let me I'm gonna call you on the carpet, Tina.
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Speaker 1: They not only get straight on the street, they get
10:00
Speaker 1: straight out on the treat with a prepaid phone card. Okay,
10:05
Speaker 1: so let's just be clear, they not only walk free.
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Speaker 1: I can't believe that people of New York are not
10:16
Speaker 1: lying on the courthouse steps screaming and gnashing their teeth
10:20
Speaker 1: over this, because the next time they get on the subway,
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Speaker 1: who do you think it's gonna be on the strap
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Speaker 1: next to you? One of these pervs, one of these
10:28
Speaker 1: guys that has just gotten out of joke. What did
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Speaker 1: you say, Jason Oceans about agassault on a child? Yes,
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Speaker 1: another one of these aggravated assault on a child under eleven.
10:39
Speaker 1: That's also you know, how about this, if you're at
10:42
Speaker 1: a Met game and I'm a Met fan. Criminal injection
10:45
Speaker 1: of a controlled substance into another person. So in theory,
10:48
Speaker 1: you could go ahead inject someone with a controlled substance.
10:53
Speaker 1: You know they arrest you coming out. You could just
10:55
Speaker 1: keep doing that at net games because this is what
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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, are you getting your information, Jason, that
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Speaker 1: these crimes are included in the bill? Quote, these are
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Speaker 1: these are all public, all the times that fall under
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Speaker 1: the bill reform law, They're they're all there. Is this true,
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Speaker 1: Tina More, I'm not taking the word of a defense Tina.
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Speaker 1: Is this true? You are not, Tina More. Excuse me,
11:21
Speaker 1: Tina More. I'm sorry. You don't have to scream over Jason.
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Speaker 1: I will do it for you, Tina, because you're too
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Speaker 1: much of a lady. Tina. Is this true? Yes, yes, yes, yes,
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Speaker 1: Good Lord in heaven these offenses stalking is a hate crime,
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Speaker 1: junk driver, homicide, agasult, child under living. Those are some
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Speaker 1: of the crimes that you can get out without posting bond. True. Yes,
11:41
Speaker 1: it's true. There've been a couple of lists put out
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Speaker 1: by the a's officers. Bobby Chicon, former special Asian FBI.
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Speaker 1: Every time I see miscarriacter justice, when the system screw
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Speaker 1: somebody over, I feel like I've been punched in the stomach.
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Speaker 1: Like when they make a mistake at trial, either intentional
11:59
Speaker 1: or unintentional. Somebody wants free, when somebody's wrongly convicted and
12:04
Speaker 1: now this, I guess I've devoted as a crime victim
12:07
Speaker 1: and as a prosecutor and victims rights, I've devoted my
12:10
Speaker 1: whole life to the justice system. And I got to
12:15
Speaker 1: tell you this has really got me upset that these
12:19
Speaker 1: people are gonna, really what go in and go out
12:22
Speaker 1: after they give their fingerprint and sign a piece of
12:24
Speaker 1: paper and these some of these are very violent crimes,
12:30
Speaker 1: and now they're getting a phone card to go with it. Yeah,
12:33
Speaker 1: you don't have to look at the resident rates and
12:35
Speaker 1: things like that to know and to look at something
12:38
Speaker 1: like this and know for a fact this kind of
12:41
Speaker 1: movement will create more victims, more people, more citizens, and
12:44
Speaker 1: more law enforcement will be injured or maimed or killed
12:47
Speaker 1: because of a law like this goes into a fact,
12:49
Speaker 1: there is no doubt. Yes, it will help some people,
12:51
Speaker 1: and yes there are some some tweaks that need to
12:53
Speaker 1: be made to the bail system, but this total dismantling
12:56
Speaker 1: of it like this will create more victims, people, citizens
13:01
Speaker 1: will be more at risk, law enforceable be more at risk.
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Speaker 1: There is no doubt about this. When you start releasing
13:06
Speaker 1: these people back, and because there is no more adaptable
13:10
Speaker 1: person in our system than a criminal that knows the
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Speaker 1: criminal justice system well, and they all do, and they
13:16
Speaker 1: know how to use it and manipulate it to their advantage.
13:19
Speaker 1: Question to Tinamore, New York Post. Okay, the New York
13:22
Speaker 1: Post states quote Mayor Bill Deblasio admits he has no
13:27
Speaker 1: idea how much his administration is spending on tickets to
13:31
Speaker 1: movies and Mets games used to entice accused criminals to
13:35
Speaker 1: return to their mandated court appearances. Let me tell you something,
13:39
Speaker 1: Jason Oceans, Deblasio is trying to hide behind the speedy
13:44
Speaker 1: trial demand. A speedy trial demand, for those of you
13:48
Speaker 1: that don't know, is when a defense files a motion
13:51
Speaker 1: for a speedy trial and if the state doesn't give
13:55
Speaker 1: you a trial with an x amount of months, like
13:58
Speaker 1: three to six months, it's depending on the jurisdiction and
14:01
Speaker 1: the time of the indictment, you walk free. If you
14:05
Speaker 1: don't get your trial within that period of time, you
14:08
Speaker 1: walk free. It's like the state having a no show
14:11
Speaker 1: at a softball game. The other side walks free. That
14:15
Speaker 1: is incentive to come to court. That's the incentive to
14:18
Speaker 1: get speedy trials. You want a speedy trial. I remember, Jason,
14:22
Speaker 1: I'd have a docket of one hundred and fifty cases
14:24
Speaker 1: waiting for me to try them. If I got a
14:26
Speaker 1: speedy trial, they all got put on the back burner
14:29
Speaker 1: and I trial the speedy. I would try the speedy first,
14:32
Speaker 1: so there would not be an automatic acquittal. That's the
14:35
Speaker 1: answer to that. I don't have to pay for movie
14:38
Speaker 1: seats and mets tickets and phone cards to get somebody
14:43
Speaker 1: a speedy trial. Jason, Isn't that true? Nancy? You're the
14:47
Speaker 1: fetal system. I mean those cases get advance right to
14:50
Speaker 1: the top, and you know that's the check in balance system.
14:53
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes something gets lost and then that's the
14:55
Speaker 1: focus of it. If Bell reform is meant as as Bobby,
15:00
Speaker 1: it should be for low level as you said in
15:02
Speaker 1: the opening, Misdemeanors Felonie No. Twenties. The distinction between the
15:07
Speaker 1: two crime stories with Nancy Grace, welcome back. This is
15:26
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with me and all star panel, Jason Ocean's
15:29
Speaker 1: New York defense attorney to Bobby Chicom Welcome, former special
15:33
Speaker 1: Asian FBI, current star of Facebook watched series Curse of Acacor,
15:38
Speaker 1: and of course Tina Moore with US New York Post
15:42
Speaker 1: reporter Tina, Let's talk about what's just happened? Isn't it true?
15:47
Speaker 1: And I read this first in the New York Post
15:51
Speaker 1: that a bank robber, and which is no easy feat
15:54
Speaker 1: to rob a bank, by the way, had already gotten
15:58
Speaker 1: out on this free pass and then targeted more banks immediately.
16:04
Speaker 1: What happened, Tina, Yeah, that's true, he said. I can't
16:08
Speaker 1: believe they let me out. What were they thinking? I
16:12
Speaker 1: don't understand. Maybe he needs some mental health treatment. Well,
16:15
Speaker 1: he can certainly afford it because he's knocked over so
16:18
Speaker 1: many banks. Jason notions, did you say that bank number five?
16:23
Speaker 1: He had already robbed one bank, and I guarantee you
16:26
Speaker 1: he had to use a weapon, and then he targets
16:29
Speaker 1: four other banks the minute he gets out. And Tina Moore,
16:33
Speaker 1: of course, is not just making that up. That's those
16:36
Speaker 1: are his words, not hers quote. I can't believe they
16:40
Speaker 1: let me out, No, Jason, wait a minute, wait a minute,
16:43
Speaker 1: wait for it, let it breathe. I can't believe they
16:48
Speaker 1: let me out. Ha ha ha ha. The criminals and
16:52
Speaker 1: the defense attorneys are dancing in the halls today. Help me, Jason.
16:57
Speaker 1: Why criminals are opportunists so they'll know all about the
17:01
Speaker 1: law and Bell reform, probably as it was being printed
17:03
Speaker 1: by the legislature. So this, uh, this individual you're talking about,
17:08
Speaker 1: didn't you pass the note? So no weapon. So as
17:11
Speaker 1: a result of doing that, they just let him right out,
17:14
Speaker 1: no note, and that was how he was able to
17:16
Speaker 1: continue to revolve through the store. No one, No one
17:18
Speaker 1: likes it, Nancy, not in this manner, right from a
17:21
Speaker 1: from a service, you know, from from from looking at
17:24
Speaker 1: these climates other clients. Defense Attorney's like, yeah, he's laughing. Okay,
17:31
Speaker 1: I can't take credit for this, although I would like
17:33
Speaker 1: to steal at Bobby Chicomb, but that would be wrong. Quote.
17:37
Speaker 1: He's laughing all the way to the bank. John Dillinger
17:41
Speaker 1: wanna be is on the loose thanks to Bell quote
17:45
Speaker 1: reform that set him free despite his arrest in connection
17:49
Speaker 1: to one, two, three, four Manhattan bank robberies. He just
17:55
Speaker 1: got out and he immediately robs a fifth bank. He
18:00
Speaker 1: gets it on Thursday, and he robs the bank on Friday.
18:05
Speaker 1: I mean I'm getting that from of course the New
18:07
Speaker 1: York Posts. Go ahead, Bobby Chicone. Bobby, you've dealt with
18:10
Speaker 1: as many criminals as Jason and I have, and Tina
18:13
Speaker 1: and the media I'm sure you've dealt with a lot more,
18:15
Speaker 1: but we'll let that go. But Bobby Chicone, you know,
18:19
Speaker 1: it's like a homing pigeon. It does. It comes right
18:23
Speaker 1: back to the same spot. You're a bank robber, you'll
18:25
Speaker 1: rob another bank. You're a dope dealer. The minute get out,
18:28
Speaker 1: you hit the street and try to find a bag
18:29
Speaker 1: of dope to sell. It's like they're like lemmings. They
18:33
Speaker 1: do well. Look a lot of us we don't have
18:36
Speaker 1: independent thought. We just do what is routine, what is normal,
18:40
Speaker 1: what we normally do. I mean, I got up this morning,
18:42
Speaker 1: I made a cup of tea and put skim milk
18:44
Speaker 1: in and heated up in the microwave without even thinking.
18:46
Speaker 1: I kind of like woke up and it was in
18:48
Speaker 1: my hand. That's the way they consider crying. Bobby, explain it.
18:52
Speaker 1: That's right, Nancy. And all you have to do is
18:54
Speaker 1: look at the resid ray the rate at which criminals
18:57
Speaker 1: re commit or they reoffend, and and it is so high,
19:01
Speaker 1: particularly in place like New York City in New York State,
19:03
Speaker 1: that to think that a system where we're going to
19:07
Speaker 1: let even career criminals out again on the street without
19:12
Speaker 1: any kind of bail requirements is a joke to think
19:16
Speaker 1: that that makes the system better, that that's going to
19:18
Speaker 1: allow more people to show back up for trial. There
19:22
Speaker 1: was a case where one of the guy's career offenses,
19:26
Speaker 1: with the fourteen times he hadn't shown back up for
19:29
Speaker 1: Corey was a career criminal, and on January first, he
19:31
Speaker 1: was released under this law. And you know it goes
19:35
Speaker 1: on and on. We're already seeing things like in Seneca County,
19:38
Speaker 1: up state New York, a guy was charged with predatory
19:40
Speaker 1: sexual assault, first degree rape, and endangering the world for
19:43
Speaker 1: a pecunt. Wait wait, wait, Bobby n slow down. I
19:49
Speaker 1: want that to sink in. Please, I don't have dramatic pauses. There,
19:54
Speaker 1: pauses to let me think and soak in what I
19:57
Speaker 1: just heard? Okay, what did you say about rape? What
20:01
Speaker 1: did I just hear? So? Danna Goodman, thirty four, was
20:05
Speaker 1: charged with predatory sexual assault the Class A two felony.
20:08
Speaker 1: He was also charged with first degree rape at Class
20:10
Speaker 1: B felony and endangering the world for a child. He
20:13
Speaker 1: was r ard on those charges under the new law,
20:16
Speaker 1: which is he was he was what he was what
20:19
Speaker 1: he was. He was released on his own recognisance, which
20:23
Speaker 1: means he's he's released on own recognisance. He walked out
20:28
Speaker 1: on his good word, on his good word, an alleged
20:33
Speaker 1: rapist thirteen years old is what the investigation room? Oh oh,
20:39
Speaker 1: Tina More. I feel like I just got shot in
20:41
Speaker 1: the arm now, Tina, My poor children, they have no
20:44
Speaker 1: idea how much I talk about them constantly on the air,
20:47
Speaker 1: but they just turned twelve. Okay, So this guy allegedly
20:51
Speaker 1: rapes a child and he gets out r O R
20:55
Speaker 1: released on own recognisance. In other words, doesn't oppose to bond.
20:58
Speaker 1: Tina Moore, New York Post reporter, Tina, you know how
21:03
Speaker 1: many times molesters molest before they get caught. It's like
21:08
Speaker 1: forty two, one hundred times that they molest to each arrest.
21:14
Speaker 1: So he gets arrested on rape and sex assault on
21:17
Speaker 1: a child and walks out, if Bobby Chacon is to
21:21
Speaker 1: be believed, but Tina helped me. What is wrong with Deblasio?
21:26
Speaker 1: This is not about politics. I don't give a fig
21:28
Speaker 1: what party he's in. This is just wrong. Tina, Well,
21:31
Speaker 1: follow form came from Albanina, so that that's terrible to molestar.
21:35
Speaker 1: I've written a lot about that, not that case in particular,
21:38
Speaker 1: about that crime. But the bank rubber is a bit different.
21:41
Speaker 1: I mean the bank rubber had a note, he used
21:43
Speaker 1: to note, he did not have a weapon. So there's
21:46
Speaker 1: there's got to be some rational way to deal with
21:49
Speaker 1: this instead of reactionary. Because that's horrible. That person who
21:53
Speaker 1: has accused of rape got to a set free. That's
21:56
Speaker 1: just not How can I ask you something, Tina, Yes,
21:59
Speaker 1: have you ever heard of cases because I have, in
22:02
Speaker 1: fact I prosecuted them where there would be a robbery
22:06
Speaker 1: and in this case, the purp Dumont Shay cut that
22:13
Speaker 1: that's not that's an NYPD commissioner. In this case, Woodbury's
22:18
Speaker 1: alleged spree begins when he slips a note demanding money
22:21
Speaker 1: to a teller to chase bank like that, Gray, Why
22:24
Speaker 1: is it so easy to rob a bank with a note?
22:27
Speaker 1: I don't understand that. Maybe there's a time with a
22:29
Speaker 1: bank really, I mean, yeah, this is what I was
22:32
Speaker 1: working up to. If they think he has a gun,
22:36
Speaker 1: what do you think the security officer is going to do?
22:38
Speaker 1: Pull out a gun and then what's going to happen?
22:40
Speaker 1: Shooting is going to happen. And I've had cases where
22:43
Speaker 1: the actual robber was not the one that fired the
22:46
Speaker 1: bullet that kills somebody, there would be a shoot off.
22:50
Speaker 1: There would be basically a Wild West situation. I've had
22:54
Speaker 1: bank robberies. The first one was a dyslex at bank
22:56
Speaker 1: robber and his note said, don't touch the al ram,
23:00
Speaker 1: this is a robie. Well guess how he got convicted,
23:03
Speaker 1: Tina more because I had a handwriting comparison done, and
23:06
Speaker 1: all the handwritings he spelled everything backwards to no offense.
23:10
Speaker 1: But you know got him. What I'm saying is a
23:13
Speaker 1: bank robbery, gun or no gun is a violent crime. Really,
23:16
Speaker 1: if you keep going back and doing this over and
23:18
Speaker 1: over again, the bigger issue here is mental health. Clearly
23:21
Speaker 1: you've got a mental health problem, someone that needs to
23:23
Speaker 1: put more money into giving the people treatment. That's the problem.
23:27
Speaker 1: Obviously he goes I come out with banks five times.
23:29
Speaker 1: There's a bigger problem than just being a bank robber. Well,
23:32
Speaker 1: it'll be a really big problem when somebody ends up
23:34
Speaker 1: getting shot or killed or run over because of this
23:37
Speaker 1: bank robber. But my issue is not the bank robber
23:41
Speaker 1: not having a gun. My issue is violent crime and
23:45
Speaker 1: people getting out from behind bars. And then Doublasio, the
23:49
Speaker 1: affrontery of giving them a swag bag. The other issue
23:55
Speaker 1: to Bobby Chicoon, former special agent FBI, star of Facebook
23:59
Speaker 1: watch Curse of Acacore. Bobby, they say they want to
24:03
Speaker 1: combat jail overcrowding. What's so difficult to understand? And you
24:08
Speaker 1: can tell me if you think I'm wrong. Our population
24:10
Speaker 1: has skyrocketed over the last say, sixty years. Of course,
24:16
Speaker 1: the jail population has increased. Of course it is. We
24:19
Speaker 1: shouldn't expect that our jails won't be crowded. That's why
24:23
Speaker 1: we need to build alternate facilities. It's just that simple.
24:28
Speaker 1: The housing market, you know, there's tons of new subdivisions
24:31
Speaker 1: and apartment high rises. Why aren't there more jails? Explain, Well,
24:36
Speaker 1: you know that's the old problem where nobody everybody wants
24:39
Speaker 1: more jails, and nobody wants them in their own backyard.
24:41
Speaker 1: Do you start running out of places to put jails
24:43
Speaker 1: and stuff? But but you're right, I mean, as the
24:46
Speaker 1: population increases, we're going to have more, you know, people
24:49
Speaker 1: that need to require incarceration. However, I'm not against the
24:52
Speaker 1: concept of reformed bail because they do parade out some
24:55
Speaker 1: you know, horrific cases of somebody being jail. It shouldn't
24:58
Speaker 1: be but this is not reform. This is a complete restructuring.
25:02
Speaker 1: This is good, goes way too far. They start talking about, well,
25:05
Speaker 1: we're only doing if a non violent offenders, which is
25:07
Speaker 1: not true, and so you know they you know, there
25:10
Speaker 1: was this. This was really a one sided debate on
25:15
Speaker 1: this so called reform and and it's out of control
25:17
Speaker 1: that the amount of crimes that are covered. You know,
25:20
Speaker 1: there are pre trial diversion things that can be looked at.
25:24
Speaker 1: It's just in this particular case, the state went way
25:28
Speaker 1: too far in what it's doing to let career criminals
25:32
Speaker 1: back on the street who are going to reoffend. There
25:34
Speaker 1: is no question about that. You are going to create
25:37
Speaker 1: more victims. There have probably been more victims already because
25:42
Speaker 1: this law is in place. Take a listen to our
25:45
Speaker 1: friends at CBS. Two hundreds of offenses such as stalking,
25:49
Speaker 1: grand larceny, assault as a hate crime, and second degree
25:52
Speaker 1: manslaughter will no longer be eligible for bail or pre
25:55
Speaker 1: trialed attention. They eliminated bail, but they never put in
25:59
Speaker 1: the safeguard we need of allowing the judge to assess dangerousness.
26:03
Speaker 1: And the result is we've got some glaring loopholes that
26:06
Speaker 1: are going to go into effect tomorrow. CBS two Urban
26:09
Speaker 1: affairs expert Mark Peters says this sets New York apart
26:12
Speaker 1: from other states, such as New Jersey, which have already
26:14
Speaker 1: eliminated the cash bail. So that somebody can walk up
26:18
Speaker 1: to someone on the street and punch them in the face,
26:21
Speaker 1: and if they haven't done lasting physical injury, there's no
26:24
Speaker 1: bail available. They can They'll be let out that day.
26:28
Speaker 1: They can go and punch somebody the next day. Courts
26:31
Speaker 1: will have the option to supervise release defendants by check
26:34
Speaker 1: ins with a caseworker, by monitoring their mental health or
26:37
Speaker 1: substance abuse treatment, by making sure they maintain employment, obey
26:41
Speaker 1: an order of protection, or forfeit their firearms. Said someone
26:45
Speaker 1: I gotta use Jason Oceans, New York, New Jersey defense attorney,
26:49
Speaker 1: how is it that defacts Department? Family Children's Services also
26:54
Speaker 1: known as CPS Chop Protective Services doesn't have enough employees
27:00
Speaker 1: to check over or guard children placed back in what
27:05
Speaker 1: I know to be horrible homes and the children end
27:08
Speaker 1: up dead. We have a new case like that every
27:10
Speaker 1: single day. I've got so many that I hate to
27:14
Speaker 1: broadcast them all or I would be doing every single
27:17
Speaker 1: program on that not enough employees, not enough motivated employees.
27:22
Speaker 1: But we think and children die, we think we have
27:25
Speaker 1: enough employees to monitor whether a perp, a criminal perp
27:31
Speaker 1: is taken as meds or going to rehab or going
27:35
Speaker 1: to AA or really that that's not going to happen.
27:38
Speaker 1: Why don't we just deal with the truth. It's not
27:41
Speaker 1: happening at all. This was as as Bobby said and
27:44
Speaker 1: Tina reported, this was just an abomination. There's there's there's
27:48
Speaker 1: no aspect of this that's good for for anyone except
27:52
Speaker 1: you know, recipivious criminals. Uh, you know the rate in
27:57
Speaker 1: the state of anti Semitism and and those that we're
28:00
Speaker 1: committing it would just let right out again to assault
28:02
Speaker 1: to others. You talked about met tickets and that's a
28:07
Speaker 1: Dublasio thing versus the state that enacted this bail reform nonsense.
28:12
Speaker 1: But imagine going to a MET game and one of
28:15
Speaker 1: the crimes now is injecting a child with a controlled substance,
28:19
Speaker 1: injecting a minor with a controlled substance, and you're out.
28:22
Speaker 1: So imagine you're that disturbed individual that's what you're sitting
28:26
Speaker 1: next to, potentially at a MET game. I want you
28:28
Speaker 1: to take a listen to a New York assemblyman joining
28:32
Speaker 1: our friends at Fox and Friends. Even someone with an
28:35
Speaker 1: extensive criminal history. An individual with twenty four prior arrests
28:39
Speaker 1: punched a police officer in Brooklyn was released right back
28:42
Speaker 1: onto the street. And we saw an illegal immigrant in
28:45
Speaker 1: Rockland County on Christmas Eve hit drive unlicensed, hit and
28:50
Speaker 1: killed a thirty five year old mother of three, was
28:52
Speaker 1: released back onto the street after he left the scene
28:55
Speaker 1: of the accident, was caught. It's unbelievable what local law
28:57
Speaker 1: enforcement has to put up with. The thanks he was
29:01
Speaker 1: apprehended by Immigration enforcement and we'll be deported. But you know,
29:06
Speaker 1: local law enforcement has their hands tied. And it's comical
29:09
Speaker 1: to see people like build a Blasio, who was offering
29:12
Speaker 1: free Mets tickets gift cards to incentivize people to return
29:16
Speaker 1: to court. He lent his support for this law crime
29:29
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. I'll tell you what it's going
29:33
Speaker 1: to take, and I don't like this, but what is
29:36
Speaker 1: going to take, Bobby Chicon is a murder. That's finally,
29:42
Speaker 1: when an innocent person loses their life at the hands
29:46
Speaker 1: of someone who walks straight out of jail, without putting
29:49
Speaker 1: up bond and got to just a revolving door like
29:51
Speaker 1: you just heard about. I guess those lives aren't enough.
29:56
Speaker 1: But it's going to take something like that before h
30:00
Speaker 1: change is made, and that's going to require the Assembly
30:03
Speaker 1: to get together and come up with an idea and
30:06
Speaker 1: actually do something about it. Bobby and and I hate that,
30:09
Speaker 1: but I know that is the reality. Well, I think
30:12
Speaker 1: we've already we may have already had that. There was
30:13
Speaker 1: a ninety two year old woman in New York that
30:15
Speaker 1: was that was killed by an individual had just gotten
30:19
Speaker 1: out of jail for UM an incident of violence, incident
30:23
Speaker 1: with his father UM and I believe he was released
30:26
Speaker 1: under under this law and then he assaulted UM and
30:30
Speaker 1: she wound up dying of her injuries, a ninety two
30:32
Speaker 1: year old woman UM And So yeah, I think that.
30:34
Speaker 1: I think you're right, I think, but that's my point.
30:36
Speaker 1: I think there already is additional victims, and I think
30:38
Speaker 1: there will continue to be victims. And it may be
30:40
Speaker 1: victims rights advocates that have to rally around and push
30:44
Speaker 1: back on this, but there's no doubt in my mind
30:47
Speaker 1: that there will be additional victims created by this law
30:52
Speaker 1: that would not be victimized if this law wasn't in place.
30:55
Speaker 1: And that's the real that's the real um sadness of
30:58
Speaker 1: this whole situation is in an attempt to curry favor
31:03
Speaker 1: with a certain segment of the population, politicians are sacrificing
31:08
Speaker 1: additional victims, accounting on those victims not speaking up. In
31:12
Speaker 1: that case where there was a ninety two year old
31:14
Speaker 1: female victim, it wasn't just an accident. She was also
31:20
Speaker 1: sex assaulted and murdered. Okay, So let's just let that
31:24
Speaker 1: scene in for a moment. So, Bobby Chicone, the case
31:28
Speaker 1: you're describing the guy who just got out, pursue it
31:32
Speaker 1: to the bill, quote reform sex assaulted a ninety two
31:38
Speaker 1: year old woman. Now what's happening? Why isn't it being fixed?
31:46
Speaker 1: Because we know Cuomo, the governor of New York, just
31:50
Speaker 1: gave you a speech and did not address it. And
31:57
Speaker 1: they keep putting perfume on the pigs, things like, oh,
32:01
Speaker 1: it needs to be tweaked. I think it needs a
32:07
Speaker 1: tear down, okay, and a rebuild, an entire rebuild. So
32:12
Speaker 1: when you described so quickly the ninety two year old woman,
32:17
Speaker 1: you left out the fact that this wasn't just you know, oops,
32:21
Speaker 1: I accidentally hit her in my elbow and she fell
32:23
Speaker 1: on the ground in her head. No, he sex assaulted
32:25
Speaker 1: her and then murdered her after just walking out. I'm
32:29
Speaker 1: wonder if he's going to get Mets tickets. Yeah, day,
32:32
Speaker 1: And I think the original crimes in jail for it
32:34
Speaker 1: was an assault with his father, So these are not
32:37
Speaker 1: non violent offenders. They try to paint it that way.
32:39
Speaker 1: This is nothing more than pure politics. The laws shouldn't
32:43
Speaker 1: be tweaked. Bail reform originally should have been tweaked, and
32:45
Speaker 1: I agree with Tina that I agree with it. There
32:47
Speaker 1: are some aberrations of bail in the system, and we
32:51
Speaker 1: need to look at those and find ways to correct them.
32:53
Speaker 1: But this is a wholesale restructuring of the system, and
32:57
Speaker 1: it's nothing more than political pandering to certain segments of
33:01
Speaker 1: the population that those politicians feel this sells well to
33:04
Speaker 1: their voters. This sells well when I stand up there
33:07
Speaker 1: and I say I cite one or two aberrations of
33:10
Speaker 1: stories that aren't aren't the norm, and try to make
33:13
Speaker 1: people believe those are the norm, and then say that's
33:15
Speaker 1: why I had to do this, and I'm helping people.
33:18
Speaker 1: That's a political play to appeal to certain segments of
33:22
Speaker 1: their voter base, and that's all this is. They don't
33:25
Speaker 1: care about the victims because one ninety two year old
33:27
Speaker 1: woman who now is dead is not going to turn
33:30
Speaker 1: the election for them. But if they if they pandered
33:32
Speaker 1: to their political base, then they're going to win the election.
33:35
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at ABC seven, This
33:38
Speaker 1: is Kristin Thorne. NASA County Executive Laura Curran says, the
33:41
Speaker 1: counties public safety officials have been working hard to make
33:44
Speaker 1: sure the release of those twenty nine people today was
33:47
Speaker 1: orderly and safe. I have heard loud and clear the
33:51
Speaker 1: concerns from the community. I share those concerns, which is
33:54
Speaker 1: why we made sure that we crossed every t dotted
33:59
Speaker 1: every eye to make sure this was done as smoothly
34:01
Speaker 1: as possible. The reason I'm here today is because I
34:03
Speaker 1: know the people that are letting back out onto the streets.
34:06
Speaker 1: I work for these jails for over twenty years. The
34:09
Speaker 1: hard working men and women that work behind the walls
34:11
Speaker 1: of these correctional facilities know just how dangerous the people
34:13
Speaker 1: are that are being left back into the communities, our communities.
34:17
Speaker 1: Senate Republicans are vowing to introduce legislation to counteract this law.
34:23
Speaker 1: This is what I know. When another person ends up
34:27
Speaker 1: dead in addition to the ninety two year old woman,
34:32
Speaker 1: the blood of those victims is going to be on
34:37
Speaker 1: the government that allowed this bail quote reform act. I
34:46
Speaker 1: disagree with, for instance, misdemeanors such as you know, a
34:52
Speaker 1: simple addict that has cocaine, Jason Oceans. I would do
34:58
Speaker 1: anything for them not to be behind bars if they
35:01
Speaker 1: didn't have a record, give them probation and counseling and
35:06
Speaker 1: you know, forty hours of community service. If it's a
35:09
Speaker 1: young guy, a young guy or a young woman who
35:12
Speaker 1: does something that's not violent, like you know, jack a car,
35:16
Speaker 1: go joy riding or jack a car and sell it.
35:20
Speaker 1: That's not a violent crime. And I don't believe that
35:22
Speaker 1: first offender should be behind bars. Shoplifting, theft of various
35:27
Speaker 1: types pretty much white collar crimes, but non violent endangering crimes. No,
35:36
Speaker 1: I really do not believe we need to have them
35:38
Speaker 1: behind bars. They need help, They need help to break
35:41
Speaker 1: out of the cycle that they're in. Because a lot
35:44
Speaker 1: of these people, and I know this for a fact,
35:47
Speaker 1: they don't know there is another way to live other
35:51
Speaker 1: than crime. And if they could see that, maybe they
35:55
Speaker 1: could go straight. I'm talking about people that are a threat. Jason,
36:00
Speaker 1: just tell me one more time. Which crimes do people
36:04
Speaker 1: walk scott free on no bail, nothing, They sign up
36:08
Speaker 1: basically a ticket and walk out the jailhouse stores? What crimes?
36:13
Speaker 1: Stalking as a hate crime. The list is. We'd be
36:16
Speaker 1: here for the next forty minutes. Now, stalking as a
36:19
Speaker 1: hate crime, stalking as a hate crime, there's one stalking
36:23
Speaker 1: as a hate crime. We're talking about just the concept
36:26
Speaker 1: and the rise of it. You're stalking people based on
36:30
Speaker 1: race or religion. That's that's fine, go back out, Just
36:33
Speaker 1: keep doing that relentless. You could terrorize a community. This
36:36
Speaker 1: was not intended A bail reform was not intended to
36:40
Speaker 1: be this. It's, as you've discussed in a much more
36:43
Speaker 1: narrowed way, not this. This was willy nilly. This was bad.
36:47
Speaker 1: It is bad. There's gonna be blood on someone's hands soon.
36:50
Speaker 1: Final where Bobby ch Ken. Yeah, as we've just pointed
36:54
Speaker 1: out stalking as a hate crime, right on its face,
36:56
Speaker 1: it doesn't it isn't violent by definition, but it's what
36:59
Speaker 1: we call a precursor or crime. You're stalking someone so
37:01
Speaker 1: that you can offend I am more violent nature. You're
37:04
Speaker 1: stalking them to know this situation, to know their routine,
37:07
Speaker 1: so things like that. So it's absolutely horrendous the amount
37:11
Speaker 1: of crimes that are covered. Stalking as a hate crime
37:13
Speaker 1: is a precursor crime to another violent crime. You're preparing
37:17
Speaker 1: to commit a violent crime. And so this is an aberration.
37:20
Speaker 1: This is an absolute horror show. Uh. Like you said, Nancy,
37:25
Speaker 1: there's going to be more victims. Like I've said, I
37:27
Speaker 1: know there are already more victims. There will be future
37:29
Speaker 1: victims that are victimized as a result of this law,
37:32
Speaker 1: not as a result of anything else other than this law.
37:34
Speaker 1: It's just the politicians don't care about those victims. They're
37:38
Speaker 1: not a voting block, and they're going to continue to
37:40
Speaker 1: pander to people that they can get up and full
37:44
Speaker 1: and to say these are non violent people we're letting out. Um,
37:47
Speaker 1: none of us would disagree with that, as you are
37:49
Speaker 1: said earlier. Um, but that that's not the case. They're
37:52
Speaker 1: they're hiding it, they're lying about it. And and the
37:55
Speaker 1: fact that so quickly now they're already admitting it needs
37:58
Speaker 1: to be tweaked just days into the new law, says
38:00
Speaker 1: that there's it's it's very flawed. You know, at its core,
38:04
Speaker 1: this this so called reform is flawed at its core.
38:07
Speaker 1: It needs to be rescinded. And they need to have
38:10
Speaker 1: a big, another strong look at things that can be
38:13
Speaker 1: used to tweet this as to Tina more New York
38:15
Speaker 1: Post Weight and Tina, I hate to admit it, but
38:18
Speaker 1: they sort of talked to the people who understand, that's
38:21
Speaker 1: like the cops and the prosecutors, and they didn't they
38:24
Speaker 1: didn't consult them when they when they made the law.
38:27
Speaker 1: And I think it needs some changes need to be made.
38:29
Speaker 1: I think I've seen we wait as just as some faults.
38:35
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Graham story signing off goodbye friend,