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Turn Your Expertise Into Influence: The Strategic Power of a Business Book · Brick by Brick - Wealth Building Conversations

• Henry DeVries: The other question I get is well, you know, there are what 40 million books on Amazon, and how's mine going to be different and all that? And I go, yeah, you have a hidden asset nobody else has. Your stories of how you've helped people from mess to success. And neurosciences, scientists have proved that people make decisions not with the logical part of their brain. I call that the think it over part of the brain. They make it from that emotional part of the brain. And the shortcut is stories. That that's where stories get processed. So when somebody sees your book, one one of our authors landed a six-figure, $100,000 speaking contract. The prospect only got to page two, the story on page two, and said, Hire them. Bring them in and hire them. Because the story proves that you're not some philosopher or journalist or professor or wannabe. you're somebody who is in the arena, as Teddy Roosevelt used to say. you're in the arena and you take people from where they are right now to where they want to go. And that is what gets people to know, like and trust you. LOREN G WERNETTE: Welcome to another episode of Brick by Brick. Today we have with us Henry DeVries. Henry is a book publisher and has been involved in that industry for a number of years. And we have never had a book publisher on our show before. So I'm excited to talk to Henry about all things in that realm. So Henry, thanks for joining us today. Henry DeVries: Lauren, it's so great to be here. I love the title Brick by Brick, because that is the truth of the situation, isn't it? That we build it brick by brick. LOREN G WERNETTE: Yep, every day, a little bit better every day, right? So, Henry DeVries: Yeah. LOREN G WERNETTE: well, Henry, so I I read a ton of books. I probably read 40 plus books a year. And so what you do is inherently interesting to me. It's one of the things that maybe I would write a book someday, but I think a lot of people have had that thought. How do I write a book? How do I should I write a book? That kind of thing. You live in that space. How did you get into that space? And just tell us a little bit about what you do there. Henry DeVries: I got into the space because I had my own business, formed a marketing agency and I knew that I should find a niche. And everybody said find a niche. In Canada they would say, Find a niche, you know, so find a niche. The riches are in the niches. So I was helping consultants and agency owners and people in real estate with building their businesses, but None of it felt like this really deep niche. And then one day somebody said, I want to write a book. I don't know how. You've written books. could I hire you? And then they told somebody, and so then somebody told somebody, and then I was doing my ninth book, and a voice in my head said, I think the niche just found you. So and I continued that and And then twelve years ago formed Indie Books International. And since that time I have ghostwritten, co-authored, edited, published more than two hundred business books. And LOREN G WERNETTE: Wow. Henry DeVries: our motto here is that the book is the starting line, not the finish line. LOREN G WERNETTE: Well, two two hundred books is a lot. So I think you know most of us have heard and kind of have a general concept of ghostwriting. can you maybe put a better definition in our heads of of what that is and what that process might look like? Henry DeVries: Lauren, I wish you could have been there the day I got this phone call and stranger on the line and said, is this Henry? Henry DeVries, the ghost writer? And I said, Well, yes. And he goes, Well, my story takes place in a mansion on Halloween. A thunderstorm is going on, and they're holding a seance in the parlor to contact the spirit of the departed owner. And I said, I gotta stop you right there. I'm not that kind of ghostwriter. In publishing a ghostwriter means somebody who helps an author write a book and they're invisible. That's what you call a ghost. You're they're invisible. They get thanked in the acknowledgments as the editor. But they're the the LOREN G WERNETTE: Mm. Henry DeVries: tool that helps the book get written. to get I hope I don't get too detailed here, but there are other things like co author. On the my Warren Buffett book, I'm the co author of that book. Sometimes you're A with author. So this is usually like a famous CEO and it says with and it's the name of a writer. so those are the different things. So ghost totally invisible, those two things you're you're visible to the LOREN G WERNETTE: So in in ghostwriting, let's let's say I was gonna write a book and I was gonna use you as you as a ghostwriter, I'm communicating my story to you through some medium and then you are putting those words into a text format that's palatable to the reader. Henry DeVries: Sure. but through the medium, we're not talking a seance again, not this one. We're talking I'm gonna interview you. So I've been a journalist. In addition to a business owner, I've been a journalist my whole career. I've always had some sort of journalism side hustle going on. Like for seven years, I was paid to write a column for weekly column for Forbes Online. So I will interview, transcribe, and my job is to make sure someone who reads the book. feels like they're talking to Lauren. Or if Lauren showed up, they'd yeah, that was the person from the book. bad ghostwriting is when the ghostwriter wants to put themselves into the book. And it might be interesting, but it's not the person. It so it doesn't serve them doing it that way. quick story. I had a CEO of a real estate development company as a client. And I was his ghostwriter. And he said, Henry, I I don't feel this is right. I said, Buck, what's what's not right? And he says, Well, I get the credit and my picture and and this article there, and but you did the the work. I said, I said, Well, Buck, let me ask you a question. How many homes are you gonna build this year? And he said, a thousand. I said, Wow, your arms are gonna get really tired doing all that hammering and painting. And he said, Well, don't be silly. You know I'm gonna, you know, cause a thousand homes to be built. I said, just like you're causing this writing to be built, and you're using tools to get it done, so just think of me as your writing tool. my job is to interview you, capture your voice, organize your thoughts. I I think it's malpractice if if you sat down and spent your time, you know, pounding this out. We call that the misery approach, by the way, like where you lock yourself in a cabin. We name it after the Stephen King movie and novel, you know, t typing twenty five words a minute trying to get a book done. No, you know, you that's a ghostwriter is a tool that you use to get a book done faster and better. LOREN G WERNETTE: Got it. And and so who is so I know you've got two hundred business books or professional books. You what kind of people are having ghostwriting done, you know, and and what are their their reasons for having these books written? Henry DeVries: Sure. The people who are my clients are in general, I would call them in the business of selling expertise. People come to them for their expert advice, opinions, knowledge. And the book is designed to give them more impact, more influence, even a path and a plan for more income, to position them as an authority. people LOREN G WERNETTE: Mm-hmm. Henry DeVries: are attracted to authorities in any field. So you know, law, real estate, finance, banking, you wanna deal with the authority, not just the average person. Well, in our world, if somebody took the time effort to get a book out there and their philosophy is in writing, that builds trust. by the way, if LOREN G WERNETTE: Mm-hmm. Henry DeVries: you if you don't wanna build trust, just tell people, trust me. That that's the worst thing you can do to build trust. LOREN G WERNETTE: Yeah, it's I I've heard that before and honestly I've felt that before, right? Like somebody that I've met and I find out they have a have a book, I might not even have ever read that book. And I'll be like, I met so-and-so. They wrote so-and-so book, right? And there's like a level of credibility, even if you've never read the book, just because they took the time to write. Henry DeVries: We say more people will be impacted hearing about the book than actually reading the book. so when people are on podcasts talking about books, and I don't mean just their book. A lot of times on podcasts people will say, Well, Henry, what's your favorite book? other than your own, you know. So then I'll share some recommendations. also people speaking on stage, they got booked because they're the author of this book, and that's why they LOREN G WERNETTE: Mm-hmm. Henry DeVries: got booked. To be on the stage. I wrote about people for at Forbes when I wrote about people, when somebody was the author of a book, I never had to explain to my editor why did you write about this person or what made this person worthy to be in Forbes just by saying, they're the author of this book. The media gives you a pass if you're the author of a book. A lot of meeting planners give you a pass if you've written a book. So It opens doors. LOREN G WERNETTE: Yeah, I makes makes a ton of sense. So so what is your favorite book since you brought it up? Henry DeVries: I have several. a recent favorite is by a rabbi and it's Rabbi Daniel Lapin. It's business secrets from the Bible. So LOREN G WERNETTE: Mm. Henry DeVries: he organized forty different teachings from the Bible and went deep on them and for for instance, and we all have different faiths, but in this one he says you know, if you're Judeo Christian, You don't have to ask what your purpose is in life. It's spelled out very clear what your purpose is. You're to help God's other children with the gifts that you've been given. What does any parent want? They want you to help their children. You know, the father wants you to help the children. So anyway, I I found this book to be very useful and very helpful. I I'm in that 5 a.m. club. That's a great book too, the 5 a.m. club. Where you get up early and you exercise in the morning and you you journal and you meditate and you read something. You you read a book. So I'm I'm constantly reading a book. Somebody asked me, d don't you get tired of reading? You know, do you not read books? And I said, Well, my hobby is writing screenplays, but but I'm reading books LOREN G WERNETTE: Ha ha. Henry DeVries: all the time. LOREN G WERNETTE: Yeah, I I'm right there with you. I'm like I said, I'm reading forty to forty-five books a year, which is nothing compared to what my wife reads. But I I think it's one of the best ways to open your mind up to new ideas. and I also think that, you know, reading the same book two different times that you'll have different experiences with that same book because you're in a different spot each time that you read it. Henry DeVries: I had a a very successful author and client, and he was a high performance coach for CEOs. So he's working like with American Airlines and Timex and these kind of people. And one of his things that he taught me is he says, I want you to read one page a day from two different books. And those two different books are Think and Grow Rich and How to Win Friends and Influence People. Just read a page a day. And I I did that for years. and he and here's what happens. Things will come up and it's like you've got either Dale Carnegie or Napoleon Hill you know, like on your shoulder, like those little things. and and saying, why don't you do this? I had something come up and it was it was a parent and they brought their child and their child asked me and the little thing in my head said, What would an extraordinary person do? So I I got down on one knee to talk to the child eye to eye. The parents said, Where'd you learn to do that? I said, just kind of came in my head. but that's but you you like you're reading those 40 to 50 books, that's filling your head with ideas. you're not the same person you were a year ago or two years ago because of who you associated with. You associated with these forty to fifty authors. Bravo. LOREN G WERNETTE: Yep. Yeah. I mean, I could argue that no one's the same person that they were a year ago. Some of us just choose to put positive influences into our lives to improve. And other people Henry DeVries: Ooh well said. LOREN G WERNETTE: ch choose to either stay stagnant or put negative influences. Henry DeVries: Yeah, you've heard that thing that you're the sum of the five people you spend the most time with. and you you gotta be real careful, none of them are negative. You know, that they're not scarcity mentality LOREN G WERNETTE: Yeah, for for for sure. Henry DeVries: people. so yeah. another great book I've read as far as health and all that is The Blue Zones. It's written about ten LOREN G WERNETTE: Mm. Henry DeVries: years ago by somebody from National Geographics, and they'd studied These five areas around the country where people lived longer, healthier, better lives. And then they found these nine characteristics they all had. And one I call the tribe of five. it's that same sort of concept that all these people had this group of positive people they hang out with. You know, it's just part of who they are. LOREN G WERNETTE: Hm. Yeah. I I've heard of I've heard of that book. not one I've read yet, but certainly I've heard of that. So Henry DeVries: I called up my friend Jim this year and I said, Jim, I've got some bad news. And he goes, What is it? I said, I'm following this advice where I've picked five people that I'm gonna spend more time with this year. and that means I'm gonna invite them to golf and to go to ball games and to go have lunch. And you're on the list, so you're gonna get invited to a lot of things. He says, this doesn't sound like bad news, this sounds like good news. So gonna see Jim this week. It it's it's great to I really encourage people to look into that book. LOREN G WERNETTE: I thought you were gonna say that you were gonna tell Jim he was number six on the list and that he got the axe. Yeah, you better step up your game. Henry DeVries: It's like you're on the bubble. Jim, you're on the bubble. But what was it w in high school I was on the tennis team and for for my junior year they took eight people and like seven, eight, and nine, we were battling each week to see which two of us would make the travel team and some weeks I made it and some weeks I didn't. So I yeah, I I understand the bubble. LOREN G WERNETTE: Yeah, such is life. So I wanna take a step back because we got jumped right into you writing all these books and you were finding your niche and stuff. What were you doing before that that, you know, basically set you up to be the ghostwriter that you are and to build this company that you have? Henry DeVries: Okay. So I knew what I wanted to do since junior high. I knew I wanted to have a career where I was writing and speaking. So I studied everything I could about writing and speaking through high school, through college, and and would always have this side hustle interest in journalism, so writing, and then got into public relations. And early on in public relations, And I was in my 20s and decided that a great thing to do would be to ghostwrite articles for our CEO clients. So I had a lot to learn along the way, and I had some mentors and who coached me. But through through years I would be ghostwriting for CEOs. So I was invisible, but I was writing their articles and letters, and then one company Said, how about books? So I started writing books for them, and then all that grew until I started my own business, and that was just the natural thing to do was to ghostwrite articles for people. But what I learned along the way is it had it it couldn't be a great Henry article, it had to be a great article for the person. short story Man named Paul was a CEO. I ghost wrote a book for him. And Paul is a driver, you know, type A kind of direct person who runs a company. We we know the type. it's he's the kind of person you wouldn't start the conversation with, how is your weekend? You would get like right down to business. And if there was any time, how was your weekend? How's your wife? Great, great, you know, move on. So LOREN G WERNETTE: Mm-hmm. Henry DeVries: Paul calls me after the book's done. He says, I want to talk to you about this book we wrote. I said, Okay. He goes, I really hired you to write this book to make me sound better. And all along the way you kept pushing me and giving me feedback and pushback and you made sure it was the best Paul book that I could do. And I just wanted to say you made the right decision. I said, okay, thanks, Paul, by your tone. I didn't know where we were going with that one. but that's the key. It it has to be you. It has to be authentically you. It's not I did have a client. And and I'll do it, but they said, Yeah, we don't want to give you any input. Just here's the we agree on the title of the book, you give us a book. And and and they they had the books published anonymously and it was from the the the marketing experts at and it was an X Y Z. It's a Fortune five hundred, you know, New York stock exchange LOREN G WERNETTE: Mm-hmm. Henry DeVries: company. But I was the experts just this a freelance writer who they'd hired to do it. But they just saw that these were marketing materials. And LOREN G WERNETTE: Yeah. Henry DeVries: they did a study that I've replicated since that they got a four X to 20X ROI on the books I wrote for them. Meaning they brought in that much revenue, people that they you know would send away for the book or they'd be at a trade show and they'd want the book and they would follow up and get that kind of business from it. And this the CEO of at that company called a meeting to like look into this. And the salespeople said, Well, you know, we get a lot of the credit because you know, we we landed the sales and the the marketing people said, Well, we get a lot of credit because we published and marketed the books. And the person who hired me said, Well Henry gets a lot of credit for writing these books. And the CEO says, I don't care who gets the credit. I just want more of this funny four X to twenty X ROI. Keep doing that whatever LOREN G WERNETTE: Right. Henry DeVries: you're doing. LOREN G WERNETTE: Yeah. Yeah, that that's interesting. I mean, it I feel like it'd be hard to track that. You know, so much of marketing is like this layered approach of like you have to build the brand and you've got to build the credibility and you have to build, you know, the list and all these things work together in tandem. And maybe one of those things is where the the channel, where the actual lead comes from. But it's hard to say, my website is where is what's getting all this traction, right? When really Henry DeVries: Yeah, it's it's integrated marketing LOREN G WERNETTE: They saw you on social media. Henry DeVries: communications. Yeah. Yeah, integrated. And I like to say that success has many parents, failure is an orphan. So nobody LOREN G WERNETTE: Mm. Henry DeVries: stands up in those meetings and said, Well, you know, we're all to blame for this failed campaign. You know, we all share some of the blame on this. I've never heard anybody say that. but I have be have people stand up, but like you said, I think our website gets a lot of credit for this. LOREN G WERNETTE: Yeah. Yeah. I i it Henry DeVries: Yeah, yeah. LOREN G WERNETTE: it's just so hard to parse out which piece is the most powerful, right? Because if you take any one piece of that puzzle apart, you know, maybe maybe they heard about your business on a social media post and then they went to your website and then someone sent them an email and like who gets the credit? I guess it's whoever they went through the last channel, right? but yeah. Henry DeVries: One of my mentors said the magic is in the mix. The magic is LOREN G WERNETTE: Mm. Henry DeVries: in the mix. And it's you know, it's like and now we used to say, well, it takes seven touches for somebody to and now we've got nine and I've heard twenty seven touches because probably because of AI and AI slop putting so much stuff out there. but but we know it's the magic is in the mix when they hear it from different sources in different ways. So that's why books are so important because books can get you publicity, books can get you speaking bookings, butch books can get you on podcasts, books can get you interviewed, f so all of these things contribute and they hear about it and it puts it in the mix. LOREN G WERNETTE: So the people that come to you and say, Hey, I want you to ghostwrite a book for me, do they generally have like a pretty fleshed out? I mean, obviously besides the company that just gave you a title, but do they have a pretty fleshed out idea of about what they want you to write about? Or do they just say, I want to write a book. I don't know what I want to write about. I've had an interesting s life or whatever. how does how does that conversation usually go? and what do you say to people that say, I would love to write a book? I just am not that interesting. Henry DeVries: Half have an idea for a book, and the other half either don't have an idea or they have too many ideas and they don't know where they should go. So Lauren, if I can give away three hundred and sixty five dollars right now, I'll I'm gonna give it away. I do courses online, two hour courses, and it's the seven questions you must answer before you write a book or before you promote a book. And I help people get clarity around that. I charge $365, but anybody who mentions brick by brick or Lauren, I will comp into that. It's on my website, IndieBooksInternational.com events. it's two hours. Again, there's no code or anything. You have to email me to ask for it. And we don't put you on a list. I don't have a what do you I don't have a funnel. You know, if people want to talk to me, I talk to them or if they want to be in the class or this, but then That's how we bring it out and I I help them see who the book needs to be for, and what problem is it's gonna be solved by their book and why that matters to the target niche that they're going after. LOREN G WERNETTE: Mm-hmm. Henry DeVries: those are the stars to guide your book writing by. LOREN G WERNETTE: Is that how it goes? Is you focus on where we wanna end up and then work backwards? Or do you start someplace and then work forward and then try to create an ending that works for the audience there? Henry DeVries: I call myself a book architect, and if by ending if you mean blueprints for a book before we start writing, then yes, that's what I do. because I don't believe in the seat of the pants approach where we just you know let our muses come and and filter and channel them into no. books have a plan. there's a specific idea behind them and what they're trying to accomplish. And that's what my two hundred books have in common is that they're for a certain group of people solving a certain problem and there's a reason why they need to do this. And then and then the how follows that. And most people know the how. What they have a hard time is like even thinking through these questions. when I say who's your book for, I say I live in a world of multiple right answers, but I'll give you one wrong answer. Everybody. Your book is not for everybody. It's not for eight billion people on the planet Earth. no, you know, there's a certain group of people. I want you to be interesting to less people, but I want you to be more intensely interesting to those people. LOREN G WERNETTE: Yeah. That that makes a lot of sense and follows with a lot of other things in life, right? You you gotta you gotta pick your niche, the the riches that are in the niches or niches, if you're in Canada. Henry DeVries: Rishas are in the niches, beaches. Yeah, in Canada. LOREN G WERNETTE: Right. Right. Well, I I think that it that's interesting because I think it flies in the face of what most people think of as writing a book. We've been fed this cinematic view of a of authors where they sit down with their typewriter in their dark, you know, single bedroom loft in Manhattan with a sh blank sheet of paper and they just start pounding out a book. and and sounds like more re Yeah. Exactly. And and it's Henry DeVries: It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. Call me Ishmael. Yeah, I know. LOREN G WERNETTE: It it sounds like it's more structured and like, okay, where do we want to get to and there's a strong workflow associated with which probably most of the people that are writing your type of books are very familiar with from the business world. Henry DeVries: Yeah, well, but I introduce them to their three main types of business books. One is a process book. It's usually ten chapters, and it has like six chapters of this proprietary process that you've developed, a problem-solving process. And then it has lots of stories that illustrate about that process, as you said, you know, going from where you are to where you want to go, or from mess to success, from problem to solution, and you tell these stories. Or There's the 20 essay book where it's about a topic and you've written twenty aha essays that get people to think about things in a different way. maybe you're a contrarian thinker. you know, maybe you have new insights on it, you know. one of my favorite chapters one of our people came up with is AI is like your drunk uncle. So everybody's praising LOREN G WERNETTE: Ha ha. Henry DeVries: AI. He's going like, no, AI is like a drunk uncle sometimes says really good things, but sometimes is like hallucinates and is off the Charts, you know, you need to bring them back in. so that's the 20 essay book. And then the other one is the fable, or the novella or the tale, you know, where it's a fiction, but it's the one minute manager or Who Moved My Cheese, some little story that teaches a lesson of and some main principles, the go giver by Bob Berg. LOREN G WERNETTE: Built the cell, yeah. Henry DeVries: So any of those. Richest man in Babylon, these are all examples of this style. We've written several of those. LOREN G WERNETTE: Yeah, built built to sell would be another one I I like that's like in that format. So Henry DeVries: Greatest Salesman in the World by Ogmendino. Yeah, yeah, these are these are classics. LOREN G WERNETTE: Got it. And of those three, like which one tends to get written the most? My my guess would be a process book. and which Henry DeVries: Yeah, the process book, but about ten years ago, the essay format came on and LOREN G WERNETTE: Mm. Henry DeVries: went large. So I wrote a book during the pandem pandemic called Rainmaker Confidential. I've interviewed a hundred people who were rainmakers for big consulting firms and big ad agencies and other things. And you know, what were they doing to make it rain during the pandemic? That turned into twenty one essays. And I I say there are eight types of books. That was a mystery book because it was a mystery to people that how do I get clients when I can't go schmooze at the the networking luncheon anymore? You know, what do I do? well you know, the the principles didn't change, just how you did it. And but what what people need, I find, are stories. Human brains are hardwired for stories, and you can give me a principle. that's like a lecture. I'll forget that in 30 days. But if you give me a story with a lesson, and when I teach workshops on this, I'll say, okay, tell me a story about a race between a rabbit and a turtle, the tortoise and the hare. And everybody can tell me that story. And I said, What's the moral of the story? Slow and steady wins the race. Okay. You know, that story is 3,000 years old, and you remember it. LOREN G WERNETTE: Mm-hmm. Henry DeVries: But if I gave you a lecture on persistence, you'd forget what I'd say in thirty days. So that's the power of story and we need to incorporate that into books. LOREN G WERNETTE: Yeah, I think that's a that's a great point 'cause I know some of the most engaging books that I read, you know, there's there's usually some data points or some information up front about what's good what they want to tell, and then they bring a story in to reinforce that. And those tend to stick with me a lot better than something that's just straight data drivel. Henry DeVries: Yeah. Data dribble. I like it. I'm gonna put that right up there with AI slop. LOREN G WERNETTE: There you go. It's all yours. So Henry DeVries: another one, not to not to gross people out, but the other one is like you said about where people just like start writing and all that. We call that word vomit. Yes. LOREN G WERNETTE: Yeah. Henry DeVries: You know. LOREN G WERNETTE: Yeah, well word vomit's a different thing in sales when your salesperson's super nervous and they just get up there and they just spill everything that they've been taught trained and what to say all at once. And the and the prospective clients just standing there. Henry DeVries: Yes. I too am Sandler system train. What was it feel felt LOREN G WERNETTE: so so of the Henry DeVries: and found? That Dale Carnegie. Feel felt and found. Many people feel the same way. They LOREN G WERNETTE: Right, right. Henry DeVries: felt now they have found, but yeah. LOREN G WERNETTE: So so and of those three, so processed books obviously were are the most common, right? And then you get we're getting more twenty essayed books. Henry DeVries: Yeah, most common. That would be the essay and then rare it's a rare bird to do LOREN G WERNETTE: Fable. Henry DeVries: the fable. LOREN G WERNETTE: And and what of those sell the best or what what do those have the most exit for people buying them? Henry DeVries: Yeah. so I believe the process books sell the best. Be and it's because people aren't reading business books to be enlightened. They buy LOREN G WERNETTE: Mm. Henry DeVries: business books and by the way, they don't buy one on a topic. when I was hired by McGraw Hill to write the Warren Buffett book, I bought eleven Warren Buffett books in one day. that's why on Amazon where it says people who bought this book also bought these books. because Amazon, not just to upsell you, but Amazon knows that that's how people consume the books in business, that they they want to get all these topics. I had this attorney once who was struggling with his firm. He wasn't making the money he should be making, and he was struggling and he was a friend from college. We'd gone to college together and now he Went into law. And he came to my office and wanted to hire me. And I said, Look, you know, let me just do this. And I went to my bookshelf, 300 books there. I picked out eight books, and I said, Read these eight books, apply the lessons in these eight books, and you'll double your revenues. And he says, Yeah. I don't want to read eight books. I want to hire the guy who knew which eight books to pull off that shelf to give to me and to apply it. So that's what I've also found where people would say, Lauren, because people say, well, wait a minute, I don't want to give away my secret sauce. I don't want to give away my best ideas. I said, Really? Because I found the more people you help with your best ideas in general, the more we'll hire you for your specifics. They want to know how to apply it to their situation and not make a mistake. So that's why I wrote the book Marketing with a Book. I didn't write the book Marketing a Book. matter of fact, many LOREN G WERNETTE: Mm-hmm. Henry DeVries: of my clients, including one who's made an extra million dollars because of this, he I don't think he's sold 200 books. He says, I don't care about selling books. I I strategically give books away to people who can hire me for five and six-figure engagements. And that's what matters. So that's that's marketing LOREN G WERNETTE: Yeah. Henry DeVries: with a book. And the books got him the speaking engagements to be in front of the CEOs who could hire him. LOREN G WERNETTE: makes a lot of sense. It's a it's a bit counter to what we generally think of as like, I'm an author, I wanna be a New York Times bestseller and get my book out there. But, you know, based on what you're saying, most most of your authors don't care so much about being a New York Times bestseller. They want to sell enough books to make themselves more known, to create awareness and to create some confidence in their brand. Henry DeVries: Absolutely. It's and it's all part of being an authority. And I also say an authority is not one and done. I also say you can't spell author. I'm sorry, you can't spell authority without the word author. And LOREN G WERNETTE: Mm. Henry DeVries: an auth authority has multiple books because they're not one and done. One book can't say everything an authority has to say. And authorities are magnets for clients. They don't chase, they attract. People come in and they want to know. you know, what would this how would this work? And where does this work like and what's your opinion on this? And so you do that by typing and talking. The book is required. It's the ticket to play speaking, and it's why my business also trains the authors how to go on the lecture circuit, how to get booked as a speaker, how to give a TEDx talk, you know, how to do videos, how to do your own TV show, all these things we train them to look, sound, walk, talk like an authority, because that's what pulls people in. LOREN G WERNETTE: Sure. Yeah, make make makes it makes a ton of sense. yeah s so As you as you look at what your company the future of your company looks like, do you think you got another two hundred books in you? Or, you know, kinda what's what's the future look like? What are you trying to accomplish right now? Henry DeVries: Well, I'm the chief relationship officer. now I have an editor in chief and I have an associate publisher and we're training the ranks. So yeah, I we got more than two hundred books in me. I won't be around for all of because I as my as my financial advisor said, you know, what's gonna happen when you graduate? And I said, graduate? And he says, Yeah. You're going to a better place than you are right now, aren't you? I said, the big graduation. Yes, yes. I've been one day we're all gonna graduate. so I've been setting up systems and processes to help people and training and you know, we've g it's like a sports team. We've got the first string, but we also got a second string and we've got some people in the in the minors we're developing. So it's gonna keep going. LOREN G WERNETTE: So if somebody is listening to this and they think, I I have a rough idea for a book. I would love to talk to Henry. You know, how do they reach out? And then also like what's that process look like? How long does it take? You know, what can they expect? Henry DeVries: Sure. So the they can go to the website, indiebooksintern.com, and on there you can request a book chat with me, which is a strategy call. It's not a selling call, but it's a strategy call. a lot of times the first step is they'll go to one of these book kickoff classes and really get clarity around the type of book. then there are different levels of of help that we offer from a full ghostwritten book to to helping, or I do retreats in Chicago where my editor-in-chief and I will interview you for two days, and at the end of the two days, we'll transcribe them, organize it, and give you the skeletal framework, maybe 20 to 30,000 words of a book that you can polish and have it be a publishable manuscript, or if you wanted us to do it, we'd do that for you. that that should take ninety days. Some people stretch it out longer. It's harder if you stretch it out. then the next thing, publishing can take you know, four to six months, depending on bells and whistles, if you're also getting an audible book and a hardback edition and the books in color and these things. so that amount of time. so at the outside, a year from this The day you decide to start, you'll have a book in hand that is available on Amazon.com and Bourns BarnesandNoble.com, and people can order it through bookstores and a book that's on Audible and and you know iTunes and other platforms. So all that can happen in that amount of time. And then your real job starts because we say Publishing the book is the starting line, not the finish line. It's the marathon that starts, and then you need to love your book, and you need to get other people to love your book. And you love your book by mailing it out to people, maybe about twenty a month to podcasters and meeting planners and potential clients, and then you do at least two showcase speeches, either a podcast or a speech a month to a target rich audience about your book. And that again, the rabbit. And the you know, the tortoise and the hare. Slow and steady wins the race because you're building doing that. Now, I also advise that you have your own TV show. I also advise you have a newsletter on LinkedIn. there's a lot of things that an author does that that are virtually no cost to get these things done, LOREN G WERNETTE: Mm-hmm. Henry DeVries: to build up a platform. That's what we say in publishing, a platform. So I have 20,000 people on my LinkedIn platform. And I have twenty five hundred people who subscribe to my newsletter and another sixteen hundred who are on my opt-in email list. So you know, you build that over time, and by the way, it makes it a lot easier when your second book comes out that you've already got these people to talk to about your book. LOREN G WERNETTE: Yeah, it makes sense. So, so a year's worth of time, what does that look like from an actual time commitment monthly? And then what does that look Henry DeVries: Yeah, I say LOREN G WERNETTE: like from a financial commitment proximate? Henry DeVries: Sure. So financial commitment can be anywhere from let's say ten to forty thousand, depending on how much marketing you want and other things like that. And then let's see the time. usually for an author, I say figure half a day a week for 90 days for twelve weeks to get the book written, then it's a lot less You know, maybe it's an hour a week weighing in on, yeah, I like that cover, I'd like to see something different, you know, feedback on this or that, in the publishing process. and then like anything else, it's on marketing, it's how much are you willing to invest in it? But I I say the minimum monthly requirement is mailing out 20 copies of a book, which somebody should do for you. And being on a couple of podcasts or speeches, which are a few hours a month. I do four podcasts a month. I mean a guest and then LOREN G WERNETTE: Got it. Henry DeVries: I host I host eight T V shows a month. LOREN G WERNETTE: Wow. Got it. Okay, well. So I mean that honestly, that's not as much of a time commitment as one might think. You hear about authors spending, I spent four years on this book. You know, it's the culmination of four years worth of work or something like that. And s and some of that's probably mark marketing sp Henry DeVries: Well, it was four years, but it was it was like it was like three days of work. That's LOREN G WERNETTE: Okay. Henry DeVries: why I do these retreats in Chicago, 'cause people are amazed what we can get done in two days of focused activity. And I've got one coming up july thirty LOREN G WERNETTE: people are always amazed what Henry DeVries: first and August first and they get in at nine AM. I say, Don't book any plans, you know, I'm gonna bring in all your meals and and you know You'll have homework to do at night and then you leave four o'clock the next day, but you're gonna have twenty five thousand words, your words, LOREN G WERNETTE: Right. Henry DeVries: which is you know a first great step. LOREN G WERNETTE: Why Chicago? Henry DeVries: because everybody has a direct flight to Chicago. LOREN G WERNETTE: Fair enough. Henry DeVries: I mean I love San Diego, but if you know, you're in Raleigh, yeah, you gotta take a plane or two to get here. but there's a there's a direct flight to from Raleigh to Chicago every day. And we're we're out by O'Hare. So you know. LOREN G WERNETTE: Yeah yeah. I I always forget about Chicago and direct flights because long time ago former job I avoided O'Hare like the plague because every time I went to O'Hare I got delayed. So switched to a different airline that routed me through either Detroit or Minnesota. So Henry DeVries: Okay, I I get it. Del you went Delta. So but LOREN G WERNETTE: Yeah. Henry DeVries: I don't do during the winter. LOREN G WERNETTE: huh? Henry DeVries: I'm planning to do one in Phoenix in February. LOREN G WERNETTE: Okay. Henry DeVries: Because hey, a lot of people would like to get down to Arizona that time of year. but in in the summer, Chicago just seems to be a good direct thing. When I put on meetings for people, meeting planners told me about you know Chicago's probably the most popular location to have a meeting for for all those reasons. Plus there's in the from April to end of September Either the Cubs or the White Sox are at home playing. There's always a baseball game in Chicago. LOREN G WERNETTE: Now there's a there's the first good reason I've heard to go to Chicago in a long time, so Henry DeVries: I I have visited forty four major league baseball parks. I've got three to go before I touch them all. I try to get to Wrigley I try to get to Wrigley, Fenway, and Dodger Stadium once a year, and those happen to be the three oldest parks too. Not a coincidence. LOREN G WERNETTE: My my son's a big Dodgers fan, so he would love that. But yeah, I've been to about six. So and we're we're big baseball family, so but anywho. Well Henry, it's been a real joy talking to you. before we go, is there anything you want to leave the audience with? or any, you know, parting messages you have? Henry DeVries: Sure. your story matters. The other question I get is well, you know, there are what 40 million books on Amazon, and how's mine going to be different and all that? And I go, yeah, you have a hidden asset nobody else has. Your stories of how you've helped people from mess to success. And neurosciences, scientists have proved that people make decisions not with the logical part of their brain. I call that the think it over part of the brain. They make it from that emotional part of the brain. And the shortcut is stories. That that's where stories get processed. So when somebody sees your book, one one of our authors landed a six-figure, $100,000 speaking contract. The prospect only got to page two, the story on page two, and said, Hire them. Bring them in and hire them. Because the story proves that you're not some philosopher or journalist or professor or wannabe. you're somebody who is in the arena, as Teddy Roosevelt used to say. you're in the arena and you take people from where they are right now to where they want to go. And that is what gets people to know, like and trust you. LOREN G WERNETTE: That's interesting. Yeah, I mean my my hold up on never writing a book is I'm like, well, I'll just wait ten more years. I'll have a lot more stuff to talk about, right? I'm not where I want to be yet, so why should I write one? Henry DeVries: do we have time for that? Do we have time for that story? LOREN G WERNETTE: Let's let's go. Let's hear it. Henry DeVries: Okay, here we go. So I I've started my business and I bring in a business coach, Gary Hawk, and Gary had been a corporate counsel for a Fortune five hundred company and he wanted to take me to lunch to hear about my exit strategy. I thought, wow, you know, because I have an MBA, so finally I can talk MBA to somebody. And I said, Well, what I'm gonna do, Gary, is I'm gonna grow this marketing communications agency. I'm gonna grow it. like a and have it running like a top. And then I'm gonna find a strategic buyer and I'm gonna sell it to them for a million dollars. And then I'm gonna go out and teach experts, agency owners and consultants how to attract right fit clients because it's hard, it's difficult, it's scary, but I've cracked the code, I know how to do it. he says you know what's the time frame? And I said Well it's gonna take 10 years to grow all this and do that and then then launch this new business. And he said, Well, you sound very passionate. I said, I am. He said, Well, let me ask you, why are you waiting 10 years to follow your passion? LOREN G WERNETTE: Mm. Henry DeVries: that was like a gut check question. And I did what my clients do when I ask them a hard question. I lied. I didn't know it was a lie at the time, but I said Well, Gary, it's because I have these contracts and these employees and I have this mortgage and I have the lease and I there's a wolf at the door at the every day I have to get past the wolf at the door to get in and do the work. And well, he knew it was my fear talking and he said, Well, how would you get started? You know, what would you do? How would you do this? And I said, well, I would write books, I'd put on seminars, I would align with some university, some place with lots of trees and water, it's probably an Oregon. And he goes, Wow, really specific. how would you get started in a small way? I said, Well, I'd put on a lunch and learn. And LOREN G WERNETTE: Mm. Henry DeVries: I spent the last two thousand dollars I had in my checking account on invitations, postage, turkey sandwiches. and my invitations were in the mail the week of nine eleventh, two thousand one. When the jets hit the towers, my invites were at the post office. LOREN G WERNETTE: Mm. Henry DeVries: five of the top ten marketing firms in San Diego went bankrupt that year. one that survived told me they didn't write an invoice for 90 days. We almost went bankrupt. But a funny thing happened. People filled my conference room and they wanted to hear what I had to say. The extent Of my intellectual property was one sheet of paper with 29 bullet points on it. point number 15 was write a book. I poured my heart out. people started hiring me to coach them on that, to write books, to do these things that transformed the business. I found a home for the employees, I found a home for the clients, and just fully went in all in on this. and then a university of my my alabad, where I taught, called me up and made me a a dean and let me do that four days a week so on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday I could run my ghostwriting business. And then after seven years of that, I said, I love the university, I love what we're doing here. I just love these authors more, and I need to give them more to get them successfully published. So that was 12 years ago and 200 books ago and best decision I ever made. LOREN G WERNETTE: Love it. Love it. People always respond to passion. So Henry, I enthusiasm Henry DeVries: enthusiasm. Yeah. LOREN G WERNETTE: and passion. So Henry, thank you for your time today. I will make sure all of your links are in the show notes. So if anybody wants to reach out to you about writing their own book because they have a story that's worth telling, I will encourage them to do so. And for everybody else, thank you for your time. Thanks for listening to Brick by Brick, as always. If you know somebody that could get some benefit out of this episode or any others, please share the podcast and have a great week. We'll talk to you next time.