Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 'Cough syrup killer' allegedly stabs young wife 123 times, obsessed with 'American Psycho'

Transcript

'Cough syrup killer' allegedly stabs young wife 123 times, obsessed with 'American Psycho' · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: one two and let's turn on the lightsome. She stood
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: on the floor and aspiring pastor twenty nine claims he
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: had too much cough medicine. You heard me write, cough
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: medicine that made him stab his wife, his young, beautiful wife,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty three times. Whoopsie, Okay, And now
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: we're learning a new development that maybe it wasn't just
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: the cough syrup. He was obsessed with American psycho. I
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: being with us. We've got an all star lineup to
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: break it down and put it back together today. Dr
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: William Moroney right now, medical examiner, famed criminal defense attorney
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: based out of Connecticut, Mickey Sherman, New York psychotherapist Lauren Howard,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: and Crime Stories investigative reporter John Limley. You know this guy,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Matthew Phelps um ends up calling nine one one in
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: a very vague explanation of why is his young wife
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: they're still on a honeymoon for Pete's sake, is in
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: the floor covered in blood. I want you to hear this. Listen.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: I think, what what do you mean by that? What
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: happened there? And then that's the lightsome? She stood on
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: the floor? How how I'm signs? Blood all over me
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: and there's a bloody knife on the bed, and I
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: think I did it? Okay, give me all right, stay
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: on the phone with me. I'm getting there and get les. Okay.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: I can't believe this. I can't believe this. When did
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: you When did you wake up to find this? I
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: don't even know what time it is? All right, stay
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: on the phone with me, so I just gonna ask
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: if you questions. Okay, I'm getting some help to you.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Are you with are you with the patient? Now? Yeah?
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: I can see your Okay, all right? How does the
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: how does the patient? How's your She's pretty died? Okay?
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Is she? Is? She awaken? All right? Now? What makes
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: you think she's dead? Does she? Wait? She thought three? Did? Okay?
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Oh my god? Okay? Do you think he is bond
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: beyond any help? I told though, I told I too
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: scared to get too close to her. Okay, to stay
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: on the phone with me, sir. I'm here with you.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: I'm here with you. I'm so scared. Sorry, I've already
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: sent the paramedics. Healthy. Okay, I'm sending someone to assist you.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Just please leave everything as you founded. Is there anything
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: else we can do for you? Said? Where's where's the knife?
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Right now? If I saw the bed, I'm not next
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: to it, so I'm not. I don't have the lesson
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: on mirro And it's like that, Okay, when did you
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: when did you wake up? No? I don't know. I took.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: I took more medicine than I should have. What medicine
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: did you take? I took? I took to investigate a reporter,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: John Lemley. John Limley in a nutshell. This guy says,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: he says it right then and there, that he had
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: cough syrup. But what we learned is he didn't have
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: a cold, John Limley. He was drinking the cough syrup
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: in order to get a buzz. Exactly on this nine call,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: he's telling the dispatcher that he had a dream in
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: the middle of the night, um, that he had killed
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: his wife. And he awakes, turns on the lights and
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: there she is dead on the floor. It's a it's
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: a nightmare come true. In his words, Um, he says,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: I have blood all over me. There's a bloody knife
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: on the bed. I think I did it. I can't
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: believe I did this. He tells the dispatcher that he
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: sometimes takes cough medicine when he has a cold or
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: to help him sleep, and that sometimes he does things
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: in his sleep that he doesn't remember. Whoa whoa does
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: things in his sleep? Right to Dr William Maroney, medical
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: examiner joining US and author of a brand new book
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: available on Amazon dot com American Narcan. Dr Maroney tell
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: me about the costs syrup that he actually took. That
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: basically he's blaming her murder on having too much cought
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: up in these cotserups. They have a cost suppressant that's
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: called dextral methoric. Okay, slow it down right there, right there.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: You're throwing all the big words on me, like Mickey
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Sherman likes to do cours seeden h happy b brother
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: P Pennsylvania course suden h b P. What is it?
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: What is h b P stand for? And could you
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: please speak English? Dr Maroney? Regular people talk? Please all right?
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: And and I'll go real. I'm not deaf. I just
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: don't understand. Go ahead. It's like when I talked to
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: my children. Dr maroney, I go John, David, Mommy asked
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: you to do X, and he goes, Mommy, just because
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: you're talking slowly, it's not helping. Okay, go ahead, all right.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: So some of the cough serups have a decongestent, and
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: that decongestent leads to high blood pressure, which is a problem.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: So course Eden has this, and it's well known for
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: a decade that they have a formulation that doesn't have
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: those drugs in there that the side effect is high
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: blood pressure. So if you have high blood pressure, you're
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: supposed to drink, you're supposed to self administer, you're supposed
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: to use the core seedon h BP that stands for
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: high blood pressure. But the active ingredient that suppresses your
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: cough is called dextro mathora fan and that last half
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: of that word that methora fan or it's an opioid
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: like morphine. It's in the morphine family, and if you
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: excessively intake that, it can lead you to the same
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: kind of dissociative high as heroin. And that's why course
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: sedon is abused by teenagers. And it's obvious that this
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: young man also has at time experienced the core sedon high. Now,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: if you take one or two teaspoons of it, it's
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: not a problem. But these people mix it with pop
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: and go through half a bottle in thirty minutes. That
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: will lead you to an opioid high. Similar, very similar
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: as a heroine. H hold on, let's take a moment, Alan,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: could you let me hear a little bit more of
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: that nine one one call? What made us? Did you take?
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: That's so that's a course he cast some coldest of course,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: costles bold because I know what to make you feel good.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: So a lot of times I can't sleep at night.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Alright to Mickey Sherman, connected based criminal defense lawyer, renowned
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: attorney Mickey Sherman, um, you know that voluntary use of
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: drugs or alcohol is not a defense. So where can
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: he go, especially in light of the most recent development
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: that he's obsessed with American Psycho. Take a listen to
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: the trailer. This is what he's obsessed with. I don't
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: think I can control myself. If you stay something bad,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: I feel lethal on the verge of frenzy. I think
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: my mask of sanity is about to slip. Do you
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: have any witnesses or fingerprints? And actually yes, mm hmm,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: I know my behavior can be erratic sometimes. Hey Paul,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: so what do you do I mean to, uh, well,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: murders and executions. Mostly. I have all the characteristics of
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: a human being, but not a single clear, identifiable emotion.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: I simply am not there. I to kill a lot
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: of people. That's not helping anything, Mickey, American Psycho the Slash,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: the Slice and Dice movie. In fact, he's got a
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: photo of Christian Bail, who played the lead role the killer,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: covered in blood on his I guess it's Facebook. That's
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: not helping anything, Mickey. Now, clearly this is a the
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: beginnings of a insanity defense. There's nothing left Oh lord,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: there's nothing left that that that is in reality, any
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: type of balance defense. And when what you mean he
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: was insane after the cought syrup and then he regained
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: his mind after the stabbing. That's right, It goes back
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: and forth. Okay, do you really think anybody's gonna believe
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: I mean it was cost syrup induced, and I mean,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: how can that be insanity? He would believe that the
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Harvey Milk case would exist where somebody who used as
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: a defense that they had too much sweet and cookies
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: and twinkies you never know what's gonna want. He's that's
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: the twinkie defense. Guys, where a killer that you're referring
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: to the death of the mayor of San Francisco. Correct
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: where the defense was he had too many twinkies. Well
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: that's San Francisco. Okay, So that's basically a whole another
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: justice system in California. No offense, California. I love you deeply,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: but you are stuck with the twinkie defense, California, not
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: the rest of us. You You, that's on you, California.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: But what about this him posting pictures of himself as
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: American Psycho's main character Patrick Bateman to his Instagram Covered
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: in Blood, where he describes him as a radical dreamer,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: writer and entrepreneur. He's a murderer, He's American Psycho and
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: he actually posts himself as American Psycho Mickey Sherman. He
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: was fully sane. Well that's for jury to determine. Also,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: the fact of the hundred and twenty three stables that
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: is way beyond conventional murder. It's a passion that's just
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be uh equal to or or justified
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: by anything in his defense. But I think you will
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: have the psychologists and psychiatrists addressing the hundred and level
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: very significally. Well, I think you're right about that, Mickey,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: because I feel recalled the woman that tied the husband up.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: I guess it was the husband and stabbed him about
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: a hundred times, and they re enacted it in the courtroom.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Of course, she was convicted, but I want to make
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: sure that we all know that bear as a bear
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: aspirin that creates this corre seed in HPP says the
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: medicine is not known to cause the violent outbursts. You
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: know what, uh mackey, sense you managed not to give
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: me any real answers, but to just muddy the water,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: which is your job. Okay, let me go to a shrink.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Lauren Howard with me, New York psychotherapist Lauren. Welcome to
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: series x M one thirty two and Crime online dot Com.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Long time no here, Glad to have you listen to
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: be here, Lauren. By the way, I loved your show,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: watched it the other night. Nancy fantastic. I guess you're
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: talking about A and E where Dan Abras and I
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: have a throwdown. I am I am graces as fantastic.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: Listen you got a tun on Thursday night A and
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: A eleven PM where we go at it over over
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Drew Peterson's missing quote quote he's missing fourth wife Stacy.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Back to this guy phelps. He then at the scene.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Let's just follow Mickey Sherman can throw out a defense.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Let me tell you something. I've seen it work too.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: But let's yeah, let's follow his line of reasoning down
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: the garden path. He's leading us down with temporary insanity
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: because when police finally get there, he breaks down sobbing
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: and crying and heaving and holding himself and says his
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: wife did not deserve this. So suddenly he snapped back
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: to reality. I mean, is that how insanity works. You're
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: only insane for the moments of the murder? Well, yeah,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: I mean you can. Yes, insanity can work that way.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: A schizuloceptive disorder would work that way. However, here's the
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: bottom line, Nancy. First of all, heroin, morphine, anything that's
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: like it does not create a violent reaction. Most drug
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: abusers who abuse those particular drugs. I'm not talking about
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: met the amphetamines, I'm not talking about cocaine. I'm talking
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: about really more depressive drugs do not create a violent response.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: So how did this happen. Does it create a sort
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: of um an inability to focus on reality? Yes, but
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: the inclination has to be unconscious in order to act
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: out in that way. So, and we know this guy
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: was obseted with American psychle What that meant him, I
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: don't know. It's a black comedy, American pecho. It's you know,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: it's how deeply he delved into the meaning of the
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: film or the book versus his own pathology. I don't know,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: but I can tell you this. There is no way
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: that the drug made him do it. His his unconscious
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: motivations made him do it, and that's why it occurred.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: The guy is obviously, I mean, there's no you can
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: defend them. You should defend them. Everybody deserved the defense.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: But this guy had a very dark underside that his
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: sleep and combination of the cores eden allowed it to dance.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: And that's what happened. Let me tell you something. Jackie's
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: waving a note at me furiously. And I'm getting this
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: straight from what am I reading right now. I've been
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: up reading it all. This is from the Charlotte Observer.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: This guy, the husband that twenty nine year old aspiring pastor.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: He went to Bible College. He he got his degree,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: I believe, but somehow he ends up not working in
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: his chosen profession, but cutting grass. The wife is the
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: one that had the job and supported the family. That's
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: a whole another canon worms not judging, not judging. This
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: guy Phelps, twenty nine year old pastor, would be accused
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: of the cough syrup killing. Was fascinated with the movie
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: American Psycho, according to police. Now, this guy, twenty nine
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: year old Matthew Phelps, a Bible College grad, calls nine
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: one one a little after one ten a m. To
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: say his wife of less than a year, Lauren hugle Meyer,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: was stabbed dead. That he had taken Corrus Senden and
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: woke up to find his wife dead and a knife
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: in his bid. Okay, now we're learning in the last
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: hours that he was obsessed with the horror film slasher
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: film American Psycho, and he talked to friends about what
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: it would be like to kill someone. Now, this is
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: not just made up by me, and it's not made
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: up by the Charlotte Observer. It's according to police search
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: lawrants that put things puts things in a different light
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: to John Linley Crime Stories investigative reporter, A different light. Indeed, Well,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: what we have learned about the pastor in training, so
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: to speak, is as you have mentioned that he was
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: working for a landscaping company. If you look at uh
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: social media, uh their Facebook pages, you would never ever
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: match in my opinion, the face you see with this
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: loving wife with the voice that you hear on this
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: nine one one call, they just don't seem to match up.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: And we know that she was a a wife, really
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: worked hard to support her husband. Uh. She had been
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: a Sunday school teacher of as Phelps was studying to
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: be a pastor um in the wake of the killings
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: of It's inconceivable exactly how this path, these two paths
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: where he is aspiring to be a pastor and aspiring
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: to be this bizarre character from a movie could be
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: one and the same person. Know what's really freaky, Mickey Sherman,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: as if they're stabbing a hundred twenty three times, it's
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: not freaky enough with me. Were now defense attorney, Connecticut
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: based Mickey Shermany practiced all over the country. Mickey, listen
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: to this. Not only is he obsessed with American Psycho.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: But if you go to his Instagram account, there's numerous
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: photos of the scenes of the movie and phelps this
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: guy the Bible student dressed as the main character, so
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: he takes the time, I don't know what put his
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: face in, lay his face over Bill's face in the
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: various scenes depicting a serial killer. Who has time for these?
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: I've got? You know, I think I have five thousand,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: literally five thousand unanswered emails right now. I'm gonna check
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: to get the right number. But who has time to
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: put your face in Christopher Bill's body? And scenes of
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: American Psycho the serial killer who somebody was crazy? Why
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: what did I expect him to say? Dr Moroney? Okay, look,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: I know you're not a shrink. Okay, you're a medical examiner,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: But I mean, would you You're raising children, you're working
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: like crazy, you're writing books, you're lecturing all over the country.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Just you know, as a juror, who is going to
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: have time? What are they going to think? Who's going
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: to have time to cut your face out and put
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: it in? Two American Psycho says, and they post them
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: to Instagram. I know that if my kids were to
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: pick a movie and cut my face. I'd probably end
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: up in Kung Fu Panda. But the issue it wasn't
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: about to see if it ain't Disney, I haven't seen it.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: But but but, but the issue here is there's something
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: that's just not copasetic that somebody who aspired to be
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: a man of God and Carol and and carry moral
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: and ethical underpinnings that can be so wrapped up in
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: such a warped and twisted and dark piece of literature.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: There there's some mental illness here that goes beyond what
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: we can understand. And I agree a minute, what does
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: You're jumping on the crazy bandwagon? You're on the crazy
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: train with them? You really, guys, guys, guys crazy drug
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: crazy plus drugs. Wait a minute, what what? Wait? Let's
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: just be clear about this. Under the law, which is
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: the old McNaughton rule, which has been brought to our
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: country from Great Britain, under our common law which our
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: country was founded on, we use the insanity test of
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: the old McNaughton case, which says that insanity under the
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: law means you did not know right from wrong at
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: the time of the incident. So how may I ask
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: to all of you could he stabbed her a hundred
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: twenty three times then have the wherewithal to make up
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: a lie that he was asleep when it happened, and
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: he woke up to find her body, and it was dark,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: and he managed to go find the light and turn
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: on the light and WHOA, what a surprise, there's his wife,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: deb I guess he slept through the hundred twenty three
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: stabs and her fighting him, trying to live uh, running
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: away from him, and her being pursued, and him holding
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: her down on the ground as he stabbed her dead.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: He slept through all that, had the wherewithal to lie
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: about it, had the wherewithal to blame cough syrup, had
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: the understanding that she did not deserve this. He knew
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: very well what he had done was wrong. I mean,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: did I get those facts wrong? John Limley? No, that
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: is that is the case, and police have charged Phelps
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: with first degree murder in the case. And as we've
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: been discussing, there's now national attention with experts weighing in
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: on these potential side effects of cold medicine and cough syrup. Interestingly,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: documents we don't have a lot of details, but documents
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: filed with the Wake County Magistrate's Office say the couple
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: had been having marital problems before. Oh it's my stars, Jackie,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: who's here in the studio with me and are furiously
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: passing notes about the money. I mean, you know, when Lauren,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: can we just put this out there to women? You know,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: when you get a man in if you can't help me,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: just don't hurt me, you know what. I love you, honey.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: But bring in the house payment. Okay, bring it in.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Don't lay up on the sofa, don't go cut the grass.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: You bring in a check, Okay, bring it in. She's
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: not Oh my god, Okay, I'm gonna stay. I'm gonna
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: stay here with you. Okay, just just let's let's lease
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: see if she's breathing. Okay, all right, Mr Just can
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: you see her from where you're at? Yeah, it's so bad, friends,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: tell investigators. And I'm quoting from the police affidavits the
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: couple would quote would argue frequently and have been disagreeing
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: about finances. According to police, Matthew Phelps, what I gotta
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: quit calling him Michael Phelps the Olympian, because I don't
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: think he's gonna like that very much. Let me make
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: it clear there's no relation. Okay, Matthew felt quote was
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: spending more money than the couple made. Follow the money
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: and Lauren the wife who had a second second job
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: trying to sell candles and home smell good. Since online
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: on Facebook, Jackie look up the name of her business
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: that she was like a sales like tupperware she would
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: sell since yes, thank you who said that, John Limley.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: So Lauren was now working a second job. I remember.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: It's bringing back the days I had three jobs won
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: during the day in two at night. Lauren Phelps had
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: recently taken drastic steps to limit her husband's spending and
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: was quote preparing to end the relationship. Now, Lauren Howard,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: New York psychotherapist, before you jump off about insanity, just
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: tell me this is a yesterday. I now have you
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: on cross exam, Lauren. Isn't it true that when women
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: have been abused, they are more likely to be killed
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: when they are either pregnant or try to leave the relationship. Absolutely, absolutely,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: there's no question about it. And this, you know, this
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: whole cost sert thing just angers me because all of
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: a sudden, if I'm if someone is drunk and they
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: commit a murder of a hundred twenty three stabbings. They
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: could offer insanity because they're under the influence. I don't
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: think so. You have to have the impulse, and perhaps
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: the impulse is suppressed when you're not under the influence,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: but once you are that it's released your I think
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Mickey sure Iman jumping in, Go ahead. Here's what they
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: have to find. They have to find the Amber Fried.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: Oh lord, you mean another woman? Isn't American psycho with
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: his face? Find the Amber Fry? That's what I said,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: is in the Peterson trail before they pound? You did?
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: He did say that. He did say, there's got to
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: be a woman out there that far. But why do
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: they have to look at for? Why do we have
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: to have another woman? The guy stepped for a hundred
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: twenty three times, Thank you, Lauren. If he wanted to
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: get rid of her, if that was if that was
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: the intention, he could have done it much more easily
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: and with less hysteria and drama. What about a divorce? Well,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, am I the crazy one here? But what
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: about money? Where did the knives come from? Where? What
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: about all the money spending? All the money? Where is
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: the money going? Hold on guys, before we get too
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: crazy here, listen to this. Detectives obtain a total of
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: seven search warrants to see cell phones, information from their
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Facebook accounts, the town house they shared, in their vehicles,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Ford fusion in a mid supeci Outlander. Investigators use these
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: warrants to seize electrical devices, handwritten documents, and two books
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: party games I don't know what party games is, Jack
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: and you google it, and American Supernatural Tales from the home,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: handwritten notes in a diary receives from the vehicles. Now,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: the investigators found blood on Phelps when they got to
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: the couple's home, and the detectives reported finding evidence suggesting
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: get ready wait for it, he cleaned himself up before
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: calling nine one. One major major problem for the defense. Okay,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: I heard Laurence snort first, So I'm going to go
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: to her. Lauren. The significance of evidence of a clean up,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: that's I mean, there's no question he knew what he
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: had done. He was aware of it. He was aware
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: it was what I mean, he started on the phone
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: on the moment one goal he said, I think I
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: did this, And so the cops here of is just
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: you know, it's it's an excuse, but it's not. It
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: doesn't get him off the hook. Like you know, Listen,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: we've seen too many of these trials of sideways and
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: what seems so clear not leading to a conviction. But
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: I cannot imagine any jury on the planet letting this
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: guy off. Okay, Mickey, sure, I just had to let
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: her in before you, because I know I wanted to
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: give you at least thirty seconds to spin the clean up.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: The clean up he did before the police got there,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: before he called nine one one, He had tried to
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: clean up the scene. Mick. Maybe he's just a fastidious person.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Thank you. I should have seen that. More coming to
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Dr William Moroney, medical examiner extraordinary. Dr Maroney author of
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: a brand new book, American Narcan, which is awesome. You
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: can find it on Amazon. To fight our war on
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: opioid addiction in the US, Dr Maroney, What does it
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: mean when police or crime scene text quote find evidence
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: of a clean up on a scene like this? What
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: are they talking about? Break it down? Well, the first
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: thing is the primary crimes will have a large amount
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: of blood with that many stab wounds, so some of
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: the blood has either been moved removed or cleaned up,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: and he personally has been cleaned up. When when you
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: look at that amount of blood, the body just keeps
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: pumping it out and pumping it out, it looks drastic.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: If you can reduce the amount of blood that they
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: find in the pictures that are taken, that will be
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: used against him later people will say, well, you know,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: we killed her, but it didn't look that bad. He's
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: trying to make it not look bad. He is guilty
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: of a heinous crime. I don't blame it on the coops.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: I just put out there that these chemicals, these drugs,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: can make you do things including get sleepy, but dissociative
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: and reduced impulses. When and he has to clean up
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: a crime scene. That shows he was competent. It shows
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: he understood that he needed to clean up. So the
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: drugs really didn't affect him that bad. Dr Maroney, for instance,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: if you go in there, if if crime scene text
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: c S. I goes in with let's just say luminol,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: and there had been a clean up, what would the
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Of course, there's blood all over her, there's blood on
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: the sheets. She's been stabbed hundred three times. But explain
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: to me forensically, how they can tail blood from their murder,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: how they can differentiate that from clean up. How what's
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: the difference. Well, he's trying to take blood off of
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: walls that's been splattered. You can't see it unless you
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: come back with ultra violet light luminal. They'll check the
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: washer and dryer, and they'll find towels soaked in blood.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: If if there's blood splatter on furniture, if there's blood
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: splatter on appliances, and the weapon. We haven't really talked
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: about the weapon except the number of times she was stabbed,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: cleaning the weapon and trying to maybe clean up his fingerprints,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: not just the blood. So there's a number of things
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: reducing the amount of blood that you can see on
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: the wall. But later they can take a luminoal and
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: test spots in the carpet, spots in the floor, spots
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: on the wall. Blood splatter is also an important part
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: of the crime scene, and he'll try to reduce the
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: amount of splatter. This is how I put it in
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: regular people talk. Thank you, Dr Moroney. I think I
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: got what you said. But for instance, this weekend, it's
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Easter weekend. I was with my mom at her home,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: and I saw where she had spilled coffee down on
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: window sale where she had turned the corner, and some
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: of the coffee had splashed onto the window sill, and
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: then it went down the wall. So I got some
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: kind of cleaner and I squirted it and wiped it
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: all off with a paper towel. It was everywhere. If
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: that had been blood and you went in with luminoc
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: it shows up like um black light. You say, black
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: light poster, that's what it looks like. You would see
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: white marks. You would see horizontal marks that I left
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: behind which you're naked, which are invisible to the naked eye.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: But under luminol you would see that pattern going back
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: and forth horizontally where I wiped it with a paper towel.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: With the lights on and aluminal, you wouldn't see a thing.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: But with a luminol on, which makes it blood show
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: up like a black light poster, you would see that
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: pattern as opposed to blood spatter sp a teeth t
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: er blood spatter which comes from the stabbing, like pinpoint
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: marks of blood spatter everywhere. Then there's quote throwback when
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: you stab somebody and then you bring the knife back
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: up into the air, blood throws back off the knife.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: That gives you a different blood pattern. Then there's dripping.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: For instance, think of Jody Arius and Travis Alexander. As
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: he was dying, he looked in the mirror and blood
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: dripped off of his face and there was a blood
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: dropped several drops there, perfectly round, like little bitty pools
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: of blood. That's a blood drop, blood spatter, throwback, clean up.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: They all look very, very drastically different upon close inspection.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: I think I said that correctly, Mickey Sherman did. That
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: makes sense. It does, but so often I'm not saying
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: it's totally junk science, but even the best of the
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: pathologists and the friends of people sometimes just kind of
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: shaved the edges of the jigsaw persons to make it
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: off fit. So I'm not the biggest proponent. Can we
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: talk about the money, John Limley, Crime Stories, investigative reporter,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: What can you tell me about the money? What was
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: he spending money on? By the way, Jackie managed to
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: pull up what is that? Party Games? Is that the
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: name of it? It's a horror book or series by Stein.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Now I think it's R. L. Stein. You probably all
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: saw the movie with one of my favorite actors, Jack Black, awesome.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: I fell in love with Black during Nacho Libre. Uh.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: But he Um and Stein, they're all horror books typically
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: started off for children, scary stories for children, then turned
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: into like scary stories for twains. Than they got scarier
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: and scarier. This is a scary ryl Stein story that
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: he had. But I'm more concern about his face being
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: stuck into American psycho sayings about a serial killer. But
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: John Lanley, can we get back to the money right?
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: The those search warrants you mentioned earlier, Um, where they
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: were looking into these possible money problems, Well, those newly
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: released documents give us a little glimpse inside Lauren phelps
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: mind in the weeks leading up to her murder. Uh.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: You also mentioned those devices that were seized. Those included
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: cell phones, and they were able to read text messages
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: where Lauren was communicating with family and friends. And in
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: one text message, she said she was tired of arguing
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: every single day with Matthew and that she maybe done
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: with the relationship and no small part because of this
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: money that was just disappearing. Could you who was it
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: that said that she was selling sensei? What is sensei?
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Sense is simply a site where you can buy all
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: sorts of of scented products. Like the name implies, whether
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: it's those oil infusers uh, candles uh, just different, as
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: my grandmother would say, smell goods for the house. John Lemley,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: you seem to know a lot about oil infusing and
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: pot pourri. I'm not going to go there with you, actually,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: but I will tell you that because of her sensitive nose,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: when Jackie comes over to visit, I have to hide
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: all of that. It's Jackie, that's right, Jackie. You cause
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: a lot of problems today. So what about that? Lauren Howard,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: the wife works all day. I think she was an accountant.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: She went to school for that. She is an accountant.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: She has a day job. And at night, the night
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: before she died, she was posting Facebook videos trying to
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: get people to buy SENSEI I'm looking at it right
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: right now. It's um room sprays, a sense circle. I
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: don't know what that is. A sense bar o accidentally
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: in love room spray? Um what else am I neating?
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: All you need is love room spray. I don't know
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: what a sense circle is, but he's right, John Linley's right.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Um Apricot vanilla, blue, hyacinth, caramels, sugar cone, room spray.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: It just goes on and on and on. So he's
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: he's right. So she works all day and then comes
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: home and tries to sell since on Facebook while her
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: husband's laid up on the sofa eating chips. Right right,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: I had did not even have a hard day, molling
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: the question, I don't know. Did he work? Didn't he
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: have a hard days? I don't know. Let me find
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: that out. Hold on how often did he landscape? You know,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: I have not come a lot across a lot of
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: details from that, but it was keeping him busy at
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: least a couple of days a week while he was
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: also uh studying for the pastor Okay, with that in mind,
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Lauren Howard, go ahead, Yancy. I mean, we're not here
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: to judge who was working harder. I am. We know
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. We know that she was dissatisfied with
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: the relationship. This isn't a divorce court where we have
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: to decide whether or not she was right to be
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: dissatisfied with the marriage. She was satisfied with the marriage.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: She had articulated that to friends and family. Clearly he
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: knew that this is all about what's going on under
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: the surface for him, what his concerns are, what his fears,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: what his need for survival is about, and so his
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: impulses which are hidden beneath um sobriety. If you will
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: get released by him, have a mind altering substance in
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: him his choice. By the way, he's the one who
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: took the custer and took too much of the cluster,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: which he also admits and Cornsinen is being abused by teenagers.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: It's a it's a rampant problem because he's pushing thirty,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: he's got a Bible college degree, he hasn't gotten a
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: job or a church. Purfectly over overused corsin. He says
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: that actually on the call, So Dr William Moroney, you're
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: you're raising a bunch of children just like me and
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: working you might I can just tell you this. I'm
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: not sure what Lauren and Mikey Sureman are talking about
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: about the hard day cutting grass, but I can tell
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: you this much. If I am going to work two
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: or three jobs and raise the children, when I get
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: up and go and put my feet on the ground
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: and start working at five thirty in the morning, my husband,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: God bless him, had better be up working too. I
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not working two or three jobs for him to
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: sit on the sofa and watch all movies that that's
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: not happening. Luckily, I hit pay dirt and got somebody
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: that works like a demon. So I'm happy, very happy
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: that he has the same work ethic as me. But
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Dr Maroney, how would your wife feel. Let's just make
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: this personal. If she's out working like a dog and
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: you're kicked back having your morning coffee when she heads
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: out the door to work, that's not a good look,
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Dr Maroney. She'd make it really clear and call me
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: a bum because she's that clear and transparent and and
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: there is no other way you can describe a man
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: married to a hard working woman. That's a significant meal ticket.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: He should be the provider and the protector. He's missing
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: all these good old Testament messages. He's he's really conflicted.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: I don't see him making any direction to being that
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: biblical provider, protector, husband and father in the future. This
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: thing is so messed up. There's so many moral caveats.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: If the conundrums here drowned you, and then on top
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: of that, you throw in substance abuse in somebody that
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: wants to be a pastor, he needs recovery, he needs
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: sobriety here, and someone that actually says Dr Maroney to
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: his friends. Gee, I wonder what it would be like
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: to murder somebody before I get to that fun fact.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: Lauren Howard, New York psychotherapist, Laurence I'm basing what I think,
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: how I think things should be. This is not for everybody,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: but it's for me because I saw my dad getting
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: up take doing whatever job the railroad gave him to do,
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: working his whole life forty three plus years on the railroad,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: and and and never complaining no matter what job they
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: gave him. Same thing for my mom. She was the
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: same way. So I see, I think that's how it
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: should be. And I don't expect everybody to share my money.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: I agree with you. I agree with you, But you
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: know what, not every lazy couch lying, not more ethic
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: husband stabbed since where twenty three times? You know? So
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: the the ethics of his behavior become irrelevant in the
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: context of is this guy guilty of a heinous Heinus cried, which,
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: by the way, where did the knife come from? Which
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: would kind of prove pre meditation if he had it
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: in his night table drawer. I mean, where is this
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: knife he used to stab for a hundred twenty three times?
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: Was that easily accessible? Did he get out of bed
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: and go into the kitchen and get it? Was it
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: a hunting knife? Was it a kitchen knife? Does anybody know?
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's let me find it. Literally with me,
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories, investigative reporter. Where was the knife? Where did
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: it come from? And what happened to it? That information
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: seems to be withheld. We just know that there was
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: a bloody knife on the bed, actually was on the
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: floor by the time investigator police arrived. U. One interesting
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: thing on the going back to sort of his uh,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: sort of prophesying his actions to come, is his Instagram page.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: He had this alter ego UH that was more like
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: the American psycho character on Instagram, and in one photo
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: on that page he quoted the band corn Uh stating
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: I can't get out of bed. There is evil in
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: my head. Just let me be. He also had a
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Tumbler page and he wrote about his strange sleeping patterns um.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: In fact, here's a direct quote from tumbler. Ever since
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: I was little I've had some strong activity with my dreams. Nightmares,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: night terrors, sleepwalking, hallucinations, controlled dreams have all filled my
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: life so far. He's really, yeah, he's he's he's really
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: sort of predicting, so to speak, what's to come? Just
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: just look at her right now? Is it became Tell
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: of what you see is he gets the chest moving
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: and she's breathing anything at all. She's he's so deserves
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: this dried on me, it's dried. The bloods is not
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: wet on me. The blood is dry. Okay, I don't
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: know what. All right, Well, at least we're gonna at
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: least child help her. Okay, all right, just give me this. Well,
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: I can see your book. Mickey Sherman, renowned criminal defense
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: attorney based out of Connecticut. Mickey, what does it mean
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: to you? Because I think you and I have the
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: same thought on this that forty four of the wounds
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: he inflicted upon his young wife were around the face
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: and neck. Forty four stab wounds around the face and neck.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: A profiler would have a ball with that. That And clearly,
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: as I said, this was a crime of passion. And
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: that's why you have such an egregious set of injuries
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: which we've seen before. The woman who drowned her five
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: kids in Texas, and I'm talking about Andrew Yates drown Yes, yes,
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: if you, if you, if you recall, there's there's a
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: woman who serially one by one round her five little
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: kids in the back room. Yet she was not found
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: guilty but not guilty by reason insanity on her first trial.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: So as I said, there's no slam dunks in the
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: insanity boom, Yeah, I hear you. I think that the
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: jury is going to view a mother whose husband had
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: her living in a school bus at one point and
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: of five children, with all these mental issues she had
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: in the past. Think they're going to find him. They're
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: gonna treat this guy, Matthew Phelps differently. I'm curious about
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: the postings that Limley and Lauren Howard were talking about
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: about his sleep disorders, how close to the murder they were,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Because if they were very close and he's talking about
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: his dream activity, was he pre planning the murder? Because
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: that night John Limley Crime Stories investigative reporter, didn't he
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: say that night I dreamed it. Yes, he told the
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: nine one one dispatcher that he had this odd dream
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: that he had killed his wife and that he quote
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: well paraphrasing here, he awoke to find that that dream
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: was true. Long story short, we are just learning from
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: search warrants that he had an obsession with American psycho
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: to the point that he would put his own face
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: into movie scenes where the serial killer was depicted and
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: talked to friends about what it would be like the
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: sensation of murdering someone. The case goes on, and all
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: we can do for Lauren now is seek justice. Nancy
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: Grace Crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend.