Latest / All The Right Movies / All The President's Men (1976) | Ep. 21 - Part 1

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All The President's Men (1976) | Ep. 21 - Part 1 · All The Right Movies

0:04
All are the movies. Nothing's riding on this except
0:08
the 1st Amendment of the Constitution, freedom of the
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press, and maybe the future of the country.
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Not that any of that matters, but if you guys fuck up again,
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I'm going to get mad. Break in at the Watergate
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Building uncovers a complex web of lies and dirty tricks leading
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to the President of the United States.
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Rookie Washington Post reporters Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein
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chase leads down blind alleys in their desperate quest for the
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truth. Alan Chapakul as All the
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President's Men became a part of a unique moment in history as it
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was still unravelling. Incredible performances and
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writing have cemented the film as the benchmark in journalistic
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thrillers. My name is Luke and with me are
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ATR, Ms., very own Woodward and Bernstein, Matt.
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Garage Freak. Jesus, what kind of crazy
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fucking story is this? And Wesley, if.
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You've got to hype it, hype it with the facts.
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I don't mind what you did. I mind the way you did it.
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All the Right Movies are following the money all the way
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to the White House in search of all the presidents then.
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Hi everyone, welcome to All the Right Movies, a Florida State
1:32
researched and written podcast on classic headphones.
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How we shall see. Set yourself up there.
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I know you did. Don't speak for everyone.
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We've got a very big one on our hands today and nothing's riding
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on this, fellas, except the 1st Amendment to the Constitution,
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freedom of the press and maybe the future of the country.
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No pressure. Yeah, it is a throwback to a
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bygone era of movie making. It's all the president's men.
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Huge. Oh yes, huge.
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Almost too big. Almost, almost.
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Now this is quite a landmark and the history of all the right
2:07
movies. Four years and two days ago,
2:10
well 5th of July 2019, we released our first ever
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podcasts. Oh lovely, yes.
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They were on Jaws and Ghostbusters.
2:20
Yeah, we've talked about some huge films in that time, chaps.
2:23
This is our 77th classic podcast.
2:26
We've done 48 Patreon episodes and six interviews, and all of
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those shows are available in our podcast archive, which you can
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gain immediate access to by becoming an All the Right Movies
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Patreon supporter, our biggest fan supporters on Patreon.
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On top of the podcast archive, you get access to a brand new
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That's a proposition not to be missed.
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So go to patreon.com/all the Right Movies to sign up if you
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are able to support us. We very much appreciate it
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because allows us to continue what we're doing and do more of
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it. Yes.
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We really, really would just have a look.
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Great. Yeah.
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Yeah, I think we've got them by the balls there.
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I'm sure their hearts and minds will follow now, of course.
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That's the will. So back to all the president's
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men, Matt, Why are we talking about this?
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It just ticks so many boxes for me.
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I love the whole 70s aesthetic that it has.
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I'm a sucker for a good conspiracy fella even also when
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it's intertwined with the story about journalists investigating
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a cover up and get into the truth.
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Anything like that spotlight from a few years ago?
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I'm all in. Acton wise, we're talking to the
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great C Redford and Hoffman, who we've never really talked about
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in any great detail, maybe just kind of here and there in the
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past and even outside of it as a film.
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The whole subject matter I find really interesting.
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It sounds really naive now considering the last five years,
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but the idea that the American president would be the center of
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a criminal conspiracy is absolutely shocking.
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The fact that he was brought down just by two journalists who
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just kept digging away and digging away at the story, it's
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really fascinating to me and it's a great document of the
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time and how it happened. Very much, yes.
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Yes. What about you, Westie?
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Not entirely positive. Entirely positive it's an excel
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spreadsheet of a film. This for me.
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And they give us panic attacks anyway.
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I mean, it's typewriters, paper notes, telephones, tabs, feet on
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desks, perms, corn Roy smells like shoe Polish, an Old Spice.
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It's got this real kind of fight to it.
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If you don't keep up with it, you are fucked.
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You are gone. If you don't, if you don't
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listen to something on the telephone and you just, you'd
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miss one or two words and one, one name and you can't keep
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grasp of it. It disappears from the whole,
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from your psyche, really. I love it, but I don't quite
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know why. I've seen it 16 times and I
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still don't know what it's about.
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I couldn't name the middle of the film.
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It's like this week, honest to God.
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I've watched it like twice a day.
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Just I pride myself on being, you know, fairly intelligent,
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not a fucking moron. But this, but this film makes me
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feel like a fucking idiot. But I do love it for that
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reason. I do love it that it doesn't
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really pull any punches and it doesn't give you a chance to
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breathe and it doesn't really, you know, it doesn't suffer
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fools. So for that reason, I'm here to
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talk about it and I'm also here to learn everything about it
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from YouTube. So this is experience.
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Shit, no pressure, man. Honest to God, you both
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understand more than I do what Matt said there.
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I was like, oh fucking hell. Really.
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The president? Yeah, we'll go when we're
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seeing. This wonderful.
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Well it's one of those films for me that is kind of like best in
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class in the genre. If you make in a journalistic
5:43
base drama it better be close to this film.
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Otherwise just don't bother because it's conquered the
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genre. Like kind of like the Exorcist
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and demonic possession films. There's just no point in making
5:54
another one because they all pale in comparison.
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And I feel the same way about this film.
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I've always been a fan of Pakulas films and quite
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honestly, you touched on it, Matt.
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And I think you're, you're right.
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But we have talked about Redford on one of our Christmas shows
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when we talked about 3 Days of the Condos briefly.
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But it is inexcusable that we've not talked once about Dustin
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Hoffman, the great Hoffman. Yeah, exactly.
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Inexcusable. This has been a long time coming
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and I would expect a glut of Hoffman's suggestions in our
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polls coming up in the next few months as well.
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Because there will be. There are a lot to get into.
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The great Hoffman. Yeah.
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All the President's Men was written by William Goldman and
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directed by Alan J Pakula, produced by Walter Cobblense for
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Wildwood Enterprises, and distributed by Warner's on April
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the 4th, 1976. Filmed on location in
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Washington, DC, the film stars Robert Redford and Dustin
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Hoffman as Woodward and Bernstein, with outstanding
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support coming from Jason Robards, Hal Holbrook, Martin
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Balsam, Jack Warden and Jane Alexander.
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Yeah, we're headed to the Watergate Complex 1972 for the
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opening scene of All the President's Men.
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We're picking up the action immediately after the inroad of
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the film, the foiled break in where the deceit begins to be
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slowly unpicked. Westie.
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Yeah, you're going to kick us off.
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I'll kick us off with the break in the Only Better We understand
7:44
from start to finish. Makes perfect sense to me.
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This five guys break into a complex.
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It's dark. There's walkie talkies.
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They get found out. They get found out by Frank
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Willis, who's the security guard, but he's the actual
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security guard who found them out.
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Yeah. He was out of work from the then
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until he did this film. Oh, really?
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This is the first bit of work that he had.
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Are you fantastic way he finds out that just mask and taped the
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door. Shoddy isn't.
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It it's all shoddy. I'm a Jewish.
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All really shoddy because when the first communicate with each
8:14
other he goes you don't want unit 2 and he just goes what?
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Why does it take five people to be there?
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And the only reason they were there that already bugged the
8:25
place. They were just changing the
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batteries because the batteries run out.
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That shit. Look, Yeah, that's the only
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reason about 55 grown men that you.
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How many, how many grown men does it take to change your
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battery? Fine.
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But it is beautifully shot by Willis.
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You brought into it. You understand there's something
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not quite right here. And I think it's great when you
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got there, you know, the undercover cops turning up and
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they asked for the patrol car and so they're getting gas.
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You go. All right, How long does it take
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to get gas? All wearing fishing hats you.
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Know the absolute bumbling morons and you want to see them
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actually convicted at the start? You're like, I actually want to
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go after these guys I hate. Them.
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Idiots. But yeah, great.
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A great great sequence and great way to open the film.
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Yeah, nice early showing from F Murray Abraham as well as one of
9:08
the cops. Yes, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Very nice. One thing that sounds out for me
9:13
is a calm thing of many of the films where like our
9:16
protagonists, introduced in such an unremarkable manner is
9:19
Woodward and bouncing. Bouncing is just hovering about
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in the background, getting on everyone's nerves.
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Split diopter every day, yeah. And Woodward just lays about in
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bed. He's not like hot on the trail
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of like a breaking story when they get him to cover this and
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said, he says, you know, just looks like he can't be bothered.
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And then even in the courtroom, just smelling about all the
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other journals look really bored.
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You think, well, what on Earth's going on here?
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That could be interesting. But I think that's what's really
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good about the coolest work is that he sticks to the realism of
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what's going on, but he catches your attention and draws you
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into it at the same time. Like how he shows Woodward
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constantly Badger and Markham, like, just very casual, who you?
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Why you here? But it's Markham's response when
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he goes. I'm not here.
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Like immediately. Sauce.
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Clearly I am like tries to backtrack, be like where you've
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given the game we're already made.
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It's like, what was she saying? These guys are just idiots.
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Like rightly off. Couldn't be more suspicious if
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he tried. And then I'd love Woodward
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following around in that really casual manner because he knows
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something isn't right. Just following him to the water
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fountain, sliding into frame behind him when he sat back
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down. And I do love that because
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Markham is so sick of him by this point.
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Like the expression on the stress, Like Jesus Christ, this
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guy, you know his. Delivery reminds me of It
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reminds me of Why are you so unpopular?
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The Chicago Police Department? I expect him to ask that
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question every single time. Pain in the ass is gay.
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Yeah, So it's it's the way he saw dog an impasis.
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And I think Pakula puts across a very clever way virtually, and
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it gets to one of the central IDs behind the story, like when
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the defendants line up and one of them says he works for the
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CIA are used to, you can barely hear him.
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What? Did he say he mentioned the CIA
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and that's it, That's the film you've got.
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Leans forward as well. Doesn't he?
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He just he. Leans forward and that's what
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you've got to do. You've got to like, what did
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they say? Pay close attention the details
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because that's what it's all about.
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And they're very much blinking. You'll miss them.
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Yeah, Redford's great when he's got the pen in his mouth and
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he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, holy shit.
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Yeah, yeah. Because he doesn't really know
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what he's doing, yeah. Yeah, and.
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I just love to see where he's trying to track down Howard
11:22
Hunt. And I don't think he can quite
11:25
believe it himself that after just a couple of phone calls,
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he's managed to track him down. And he's clearly out of his
11:30
depth. He's kind of stumbling over his
11:31
words. He says, I was just kind of
11:33
wondering why your name and phone number in the address book
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of two men from Watergate and good God.
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And he writes down good God, wonderful because he knows he's
11:45
on to something. And this small, seemingly
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innocuous phone call starts the ball rolling on the whole thing.
11:50
And just the framing of the scene is just it's just my, the
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the filmmaking overall in this film.
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Masterful. Yeah.
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Button Redford is massive in that frame, dominating the
12:00
screen, like he's overfilling it.
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He has the kind of like the power.
12:04
He's on to something. Bob Woodward as the other hand.
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But then as the free, then as the phone call goes on, he's
12:11
speaking to the guy who's speaking Spanish.
12:13
He doesn't understand him. Becomes smaller in the frame.
12:15
Yeah. He's losing it.
12:17
And then becomes bigger when he's speaking to Mr. Bennett.
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He finds out that Hunt worked for the CIA and it's only very
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slight but great visual subliminal storytelling.
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Really, really like. That I also think that's a bit
12:27
of an outtake when he said journey.
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You guys speak English, Spanish, you know the kind of shouts over
12:32
it's. Definitely is.
12:33
Yeah, it is. The telephone number that would
12:36
would dial for the White House is the real number of the White
12:38
House switchboard. Wow 4561414.
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So if you. Want to put a call in?
12:44
Give Drawbell see how he's getting on.
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Hello. Falling over?
12:50
Yeah, falling over a banana skin, I imagine.
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She's looking looking for the phone.
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After this sequence, Woodward and Bernstein have a frosty
13:00
introduction, but join forces on this compelling story.
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We're picking up the action, starting with a phone call to
13:05
the library and ending it with Ben Bradley review and Woodward
13:08
and Bernstein's work. And I'm starting off with this
13:11
conversation that Bernstein has with the librarian over the
13:14
telephone. Yeah.
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Hunt took out a number of materials but is then told the
13:19
truth. The truth is that there was no
13:21
request for at all from Mr. Hunt.
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The truth is, I don't know, Mr. Hunt.
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All right, brilliant. What is the truth?
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Because you said the truth is this five times.
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But she's great on the other end of the phone.
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She's. Great.
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Performance and Woodward gets on the phone to Ken Carlson and
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he's trying to find out more information.
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He gets the cold cock, says the librarian denies that the
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conversation took place and Bernstein is listening and he's
13:48
furious. Total bullshit.
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Total bullshit. And I just love that the
13:56
building of the relationship between Woodward and Bernstein,
13:59
you can see how their dynamic is effective in in getting the job
14:03
done and doing the job right. You can see where their
14:05
strengths and weaknesses are just in this passenger player.
14:08
Fantastic. And it's the tent lies and dead
14:11
ends that I love so much. You know that there's something
14:14
there, but you're going to have to work very hard to get to the
14:16
truth. Very, very similar.
14:19
If you can cast your mind back, Westie, to the conversation that
14:21
we had around Zodiac and my Love.
14:24
Kind of like that procedural kind of narrative throughout the
14:27
entire film and you can see the influence that this film had on.
14:31
Yeah, leaps and all. The way through, He loves his
14:33
film Fincher. Yeah, of course he.
14:35
Does it's the same film basically he was?
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Basically the same film. Yeah, even the officers look the
14:40
same. Exactly the same.
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Just my library can't hear. Well, on that matter, over to
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you, Westie. Yeah, do love this sequence.
14:49
I love when they go to the library and he's like, I've got
14:51
them, not sure if you want them, but I've got them and he just
14:53
puts them all down. You just think that's what I
14:55
think watching the film, I'm like, right, he would go.
14:57
And I mean, I do love getting engaged with it, but I've got to
15:00
concentrate so hard. And I feel like it's these guys
15:04
looking through the library cards and the descent of the
15:05
audience. Look, this is how much you need
15:07
to concentrate on the rest of this film.
15:09
Otherwise you're going to get lost.
15:11
And the great thing that Popular does with the camera and Gordon
15:13
Willis just with the camera is just takes you up and out of the
15:16
scene and shows how complex this film is going to be.
15:19
Yes. And it's incredible the way they
15:22
did that. I mean, it's a remote controlled
15:24
cable system. And the primary cable was
15:26
attached to a winch at the ceiling.
15:27
And then they basically had to move it so that they became
15:31
central in the frame. And Rio de la Motte was the
15:34
first AC. He was the focus puller on it.
15:36
And bearing in mind this was, you know, before you had
15:39
digital, before you had monitors, he didn't know what
15:41
the focus is going to be. You have to measure the distance
15:43
between the lens and the subject and you then have to pull focus
15:47
as that distance changes. So as that's going up, he's got
15:50
no idea the distance. He's just going to have to get
15:53
it. And Gordon Willis said it was
15:54
the finest moment of focus pulling he's ever seen in his
15:58
career. He said he was amazed that
16:00
anything was in focus, anything. And the only did it twice.
16:03
Really. Yeah.
16:04
I mean, it's incredible. Yeah.
16:05
And when they go through they do like a transition.
16:08
So it kind of cross transition to show a passage of time.
16:11
But they did that because the the camera wasn't really in the
16:13
center of the of the actual building to start off on them.
16:16
They were in the on the side and it's slightly moves back.
16:20
So as it moves back, that's where the transition is to short
16:22
central, which again is genius in the edit and it's genius from
16:24
the you know, the first day it says genius from Gordon Willis.
16:27
He's going well, It said. The fact you guys like, I love
16:29
it, but I don't know if I can do it.
16:32
Loving it and doing it are two completely separate things.
16:35
When I saw that shot, I thought, right, this is worthy of my
16:37
attention. Now this shot like that, this
16:39
early in the film, that should be the ending.
16:41
I knew you would love a West. That's that's a final shot in
16:44
it. It's just, I'm looking at it
16:45
going, yes, I absolutely fucking adore that.
16:48
And the way that they did it, you know, in an analogue way,
16:51
just humans being so incredibly technically good at what we're
16:55
doing. It's just, it's just a
16:56
masterstroke. It's just absolutely,
16:58
unbelievably done technically. And it really, really works for
17:01
the story. Like it's not surely for any
17:02
reason, you know, it shows the audience like this is how
17:05
complicated this is going to be. So yeah, strap it's.
17:07
Not it's not flashy, it's not doing just because you can do
17:10
it. It's done to aid the narrative.
17:12
Exactly. And it does aid the narrative
17:14
because you kind of go right while they're in the middle of
17:16
this complex fucking maze, almost, and nobody's helping
17:19
them but them to themselves. So yeah, it's a wonderful,
17:22
wonderful sequence and probably one of my favorite film.
17:24
Needle in a haystack shot in the Library of Congress.
17:27
But there was some resistance to them shooting in the Library of
17:30
Congress, much like Woodward and Bernstein themselves.
17:33
So they had to get the president of the MPAA to put a call in to
17:38
allow them to shoot in the Library of Congress.
17:40
I think that's only by that did it twice.
17:41
I don't think I had a lot of time.
17:42
If you look at the rig as well, it's just like a wooden.
17:46
Yeah, it's not really. It's a.
17:48
Rudimentary contraption isn't. It when you put that 1000
17:51
thousand, thousands pounds camera in there with film stock
17:54
in it, give that to the focus pull.
17:56
I was going to guess as it goes up there, we're going to do it
17:57
twice and you get that. It's just ridiculous.
18:00
That's why he's the master. Willis.
18:02
Absolutely Willis. We're talking about Willis.
18:04
We talk about Willis. I'm talking about putting that
18:06
fucking camera up there. That's what I'm talking about
18:09
and it done amazing. Matt, what about you in this
18:11
sequence? All of it, all but just once in
18:14
my life, I'd like to enter a room or a conversation with the
18:17
authority, not robots. To say it's Ben Bradley.
18:20
When he comes in to take that story apart, it's amazing.
18:23
Everyone just like holds the breath and just sits up a little
18:27
bit more because he's coming into the room and, you know,
18:29
wood, wooden bouncing. They're sitting down.
18:31
Rosenfeld, which is Jack Rodney. He's got a little bit of
18:33
authority so he can sit on the desperate Bradley.
18:35
It's just like not screw you all.
18:37
I get to put my feet up on the desk.
18:39
You guys don't? Always through the film as well.
18:42
Doesn't always do the film. It's such a low key little
18:44
touch, but it's brilliant. It's a great character
18:46
introduction and so much storytelling.
18:49
Just by the look on his face, like, you can see he's kind of
18:51
laughing at the story at one point because he's saying it's
18:54
this it, this is what they've got me out of my office for, to
18:57
look at this. The look on his face when
18:59
Woodward says, I don't know how high up this all scores, what
19:01
the drop title is. It's devastating.
19:03
The look of disappointment he gives him.
19:05
It's like, you know, when you had like, your favorite teacher
19:07
at school and you get for your things like a really clever
19:09
answer and the teacher's just like, what is wrong with you?
19:12
Why you start? Crossing it out and crossing.
19:15
Out. Yeah.
19:15
Why? Do you think that was the right
19:16
thing to say It's to. See me after school, Yeah.
19:20
You see the heart. Syncing with every slash of that
19:24
red pen and when burns seen like snaps and like this is a good
19:28
some important story the way of Bradley science ISM just thought
19:31
look like who do you think you are like yeah, yeah, it's
19:36
amazing. And it gets to the hard why this
19:38
story was so hard to crack because it wasn't so much
19:41
getting the people to talk and getting the fact it was actually
19:44
convinced of someone like Ben Bradley that it's worth
19:46
printing. And this scene is so good to
19:48
demonstrate in the high standards that he set for them
19:50
to get over. It's the way that shot is
19:53
framed, like you said, Matt Bradley's, like, deep into the
19:56
detail of this story, or lack of detail, for that matter.
19:59
But the other actors, they're kind of like, almost hanging
20:01
their head in shame. They know they didn't get it.
20:03
Yeah. Fantastic stuff.
20:06
So 2 great sequences, a great opening and a goddamn important
20:09
story. Woodward and Bernstein need some
20:11
harder information. They do.
20:16
The director. The man at the center of
20:20
everything isn't Richard Nixon, it's Alan J Pakula, another
20:25
person that we haven't spoken about in our four year history.
20:28
Now is his time in the ATRM limelight.
20:31
Matt, what are your thoughts on his work as Director Return of
20:34
the Pack? Pakula matata that's.
20:40
It then. That's it.
20:42
I think his work, he is very rigorous and very detailed.
20:46
Any doesn't allow himself much in the way of Flash, and I think
20:50
that's really difficult for a director to do, to be so
20:53
disciplined. But he has the confidence that
20:56
the story is so strong and relevant that that's where the
20:58
interest is going to lie. But even Despite that, it's
21:01
still impressive how he manages to make the film as gripping as
21:04
it is. Because the story, in terms of
21:05
its detail, a lot of it is extremely mundane.
21:08
You know, we've been talking about scenes where the look
21:10
through Libby cards are very exciting.
21:12
How excited do we get about that though?
21:14
Exactly. Yeah.
21:15
Well, exactly. That's it.
21:18
That's the brilliance of it. And I think what helps is he
21:20
moves the film along at a crack and pace, even though it doesn't
21:23
feel like it because the find one lead, it cuts to the next
21:26
scene, whether followed up, that leads him somewhere else.
21:28
He cuts to that and it has this momentum of like pulling at one
21:31
thread that undoes something else and so on and so on.
21:34
And you just keep pulling at it. And I think that's why he can
21:36
have a film packed full of these small details, but it's still
21:39
engrossing. You know, so many phone calls in
21:41
this film, but none of them drag on.
21:43
Each one is punchy into the point.
21:44
It's question, answer, question, answer, hang up, make the next
21:48
call. Scribbler note down, big close
21:49
up on that note. Could wait to the next one.
21:52
There's very little downtime. And Peculiar really taps into
21:54
that idea of the fact that the story is Gavin Pierce in the
21:57
background. And it is frustrating because
21:59
nobody can see that big picture yet, but there was something
22:02
there. And I think how he puts that on
22:03
screen is very impressive. Very much.
22:05
You know, he does allow himself a little bit of visual flare
22:08
every now and then. We've mentioned the library
22:09
cards, you know, the garage meets with Deep Throat with that
22:12
great use of shadow. And I think it's quite brave of
22:14
him to say, yeah, the legwork of what these guys had to do was
22:17
quite tedious. But the way I'll put it on
22:19
screen isn't. And part of that was he wanted
22:22
the camera rack to be very static at the start, very little
22:25
movement. But as the investigation grows
22:27
in the stakes of race, it does become more mobile.
22:29
And then till you get to that, like, peak moment with that
22:32
great track and chart of Wood, William Bernstein running
22:34
through the office, when they've made the, you know, the real big
22:36
breakthrough. And that one, such a release,
22:39
such a release of tension finally moving on this thing,
22:43
It's brilliant. Yeah.
22:44
I think this works pretty exceptional to be honest.
22:47
Yeah, I mean, just with you saying they're mad about finding
22:50
excitement in the Monday and just while you've been talking,
22:53
I've been thinking 3 of the moments that I've chosen to talk
22:55
about are phone calls W he's talking about two people meeting
22:59
in a car park twice. Yeah.
23:01
Exactly. Both are drastically different,
23:04
yeah. I mean, it's a very, very low
23:07
key film, very understated like you're saying, minimal title
23:10
cards at the start, minimal music, very simple, no action to
23:13
speak of. And I think that works in great
23:16
contrast with the enormous themes and narrative of the
23:18
film. I mean, he's got this sense that
23:20
it doesn't need to be anything flashy because just the, you
23:23
know, the subject matter speaks for itself.
23:25
Not even like the biggest car chase or gunfight could ever
23:28
over shadow it. So there's no point, there's no
23:30
need. And obviously there's no place
23:32
for it either. But you know, in a traditional
23:35
tight thriller, they would certainly be placed for it.
23:37
I think maybe I'm looking at it through a 2023 lens, but it's a
23:41
risky move to make because it just isn't written the way films
23:44
are usually written. You don't have any of the
23:47
narrative beats that you would normally have.
23:49
There's no love interest, no car chases, no action sequences, no
23:52
tangible on screen villain, and the two heroes are constantly
23:56
being thwarted and undermined at every step of the way.
24:00
But somehow he makes one of the most tense, edge of your seat
24:03
thrillers that I've ever seen. And I think it's in the subtle
24:05
choices he makes. Like you said, Matt, the pace he
24:07
keeps really helps. He makes even the most mundane
24:10
of tasks like cold calling at people's doors feel like life or
24:14
death stuff. Yeah.
24:16
And I think it is a shame that he's not more widely regarded as
24:19
the director because he did some great work in the 70s, did some
24:23
solid stuff in the 80s and 90s as well.
24:25
But particularly in this film when he's working with Gordon
24:28
Willis, DP, this is an absolute dream team for me.
24:32
The those syncratic choices that they make together makes this
24:35
film like stand head and shoulders above most in in the
24:39
decade. It's a magnificent film and
24:42
great work from Pakula. Yeah, I mean, I have to agree.
24:45
I think he's just, he makes this look easy.
24:47
It seems that he's having a great time.
24:49
It doesn't seem like there's a problem here.
24:51
And everyone's having a great time and all of the actors know
24:54
exactly where their limits are. But everyone seems to be on the
24:56
same page. And I want to talk about how he
24:58
balances the likes of Redford and Hoffman.
25:01
And it feels like they're both important.
25:03
Then they both both own the film when they're by themselves.
25:06
And then when they're both together, it just feels like a
25:08
natural fit. And I think it.
25:10
Doesn't feel like a power struggle.
25:11
No, not at all. I think it's it's one of them
25:13
really rare films where I mean, but Cassidy is the same for me,
25:17
you know? But it's maybe that's just
25:18
Redford. I don't really see him as like a
25:20
lean man per SE, but I think when he's with somebody, he
25:23
really shines, you know, and this is like human and McQueen
25:26
in town Infernal. It's got that similar kind of
25:28
villain where they've just, it just seems like everybody
25:31
agrees. And I think Pacquiao brings that
25:33
and he keeps everything grounded and he knows where everything's
25:35
going. And Willis is like, I want to
25:37
use split Diabras. And you know, 90% of this, he's
25:40
a right son because he wants depth in the frame.
25:42
He wants people to see what's happening.
25:44
He wants he wants to have that tension, but at the same time
25:47
it's not it's not an anxiety tension.
25:49
It's just an I want to find out more tension, which is really
25:52
much what makes this film so watchable, I think.
25:53
I mean, he's the king of it, you know?
25:55
Clute, Parallax View, Pelican Brief, even.
25:59
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was an absolute genius of
26:01
handle and tone. If he'd still been around now,
26:04
he would have made mincemeat out of where, you know, governments
26:07
and politics and where where everything is now.
26:10
We would have kicked the shit out of it.
26:11
And we need somebody like that around to do it.
26:13
But it's so unfair that he's not.
26:15
But in this film, yeah, flawless.
26:17
Yeah, Masterpiece Pakula wasn't the only name in the frame.
26:21
We always like to hear this. William Friedkin was considered.
26:24
You do, you do. As was Michael Ritchie, who just
26:30
directed Redford in the candidate.
26:31
Yeah. Oh yeah.
26:32
Yeah. Richie would get to direct his
26:34
own journalistic report, a masterpiece in 1985 when he did
26:38
Fletch. Just the first one.
26:46
Yes, indeed, yes indeed. The classic, for sure.
26:49
And John Schlesinger declined the gig because he felt it
26:51
should be directed by an American.
26:54
That's fair enough. Yeah, Redford chose Pakula
26:56
because they had the same thought on how to approach the
26:58
material with absolute truth to the story being told.
27:02
Redford saw the film as a small indie with unknown actors and
27:06
Pakula convinced him that it needs to be a big film.
27:08
He said. We were dealing with something
27:10
that could alter our view of investigative journalism and
27:13
political office, so it had to feel big.
27:15
One of the reasons that he drafted in DP Gordon Willis.
27:18
Yeah, location shooting was taken advantage of as much as
27:21
possible because the Washington Post wouldn't allow Peculiar to
27:23
shoot in their offices. So a repligorphence was built at
27:27
Warner Burbank Studios. Exact measurements were taken.
27:31
It looks exactly the same, extensive photos, even like some
27:34
of the printouts. You know, it was absolutely to
27:36
the point. But Gordon Willis was thinking,
27:38
well, I can like this anywhere that I wanted, but he wanted to
27:41
light it exactly the same as the Washington Post.
27:43
So that included 700 fluorescent units to light the whole.
27:47
And when you're shooting on fluorescent on film, it looks
27:50
disgusting, like flashlights to green and it looks awful.
27:54
So what they did in when they did the print the shop with
27:57
Scion lenses, so they had a little bit more Scion and they
27:59
took some green out and he balanced that all the way
28:01
through. All right, great.
28:02
And you're not going to be asked about this, but the exposure was
28:05
set to T 4.5, which for me is like really strange because
28:11
that's not going to give you much depth to the frame.
28:13
You're going to need like T11 or something to get that real depth
28:16
and see the back of the room so that the wider your aperture,
28:19
the more your background is going to be out of focus.
28:21
But he lit it to T 4.5, which I mean, that's that's quite
28:24
bright. And the gaffer had to take all
28:28
of the ballast units that powered all over the
28:30
fluorescence and take them, but using 135 miles of wire, by the
28:34
way, sound stage and put them in air cooled boxes because the
28:38
home from them was too loud actually bleed under the
28:42
dialogue and everything else. So these 135 miles cable and
28:45
Gordon Willis said again that that was one of the finest
28:48
gaffer moments because there was never a shortage.
28:50
There was never a flicker. There was never an output that
28:52
didn't work. Everything was flawless,
28:54
absolutely. Unreal.
28:55
Amazing. As well as that though, the
28:57
broad in 150 desks from the same place that the Post got theirs
29:00
from had one tonne of scrap paper to, like, decorate the
29:04
desk with. And some of the actual reporters
29:06
would donate their own desk lutes or like, personal photos
29:09
from warm up books or whatever to add to the authenticity of
29:12
an. Apparently when they went to the
29:13
set, they were blown away by how accurate it was.
29:16
And one of the Oscars this film did win was for George Jenkins,
29:19
who was there. He was the production designer.
29:21
Yeah. You talked about depth there,
29:23
Westie. Jenkins also used false
29:25
perspectives at the back of the set to increase the depth in the
29:29
frame right, so desks and shells were cut down accordingly, and
29:32
background artists were chosen because of their height relative
29:34
to the perspective. Oh well, there you go to 4.5
29:37
works, then that's no problem. Yeah, what?
29:41
He said. Yeah, thank God.
29:44
To wrap us up on Alan Pakula, we've got a question from one of
29:47
our Patreon supporters. I mentioned Patreon benefits
29:50
earlier. Another one is that you can put
29:52
forward your questions for the films that we're covering and
29:54
we'll answer them live on the show.
29:57
And this is the first question, and that comes from Thomas
30:00
Frost. Howdy, Thomas.
30:02
Hello Thomas, great surname. Great first name, great guy.
30:05
Yeah. Great guy, yeah.
30:09
Thomas asks. Where does this rank among the
30:12
other great paranoid thrillers of the era?
30:15
Westie, Yeah. What do you think about that?
30:17
Well, I mean, there was just so many, wasn't there and so many
30:20
good ones. And I think it's this team that
30:23
were attached to them. I mean parallax view that was
30:26
these guys was Willis as well. Clute, it was Willis as well.
30:31
It's, you know, in particular and conversation.
30:34
Soylent Green was one of right up there early doors.
30:38
This is second for me. If I'm going to answer the
30:41
question and get to the point first, for me 3 days of the
30:43
condo, I just. Oh, really?
30:45
Really enjoy it more. It's just got a bit a little bit
30:48
more of a pace. It's a bit more simple because
30:50
you know, I understand most of the time I don't want to be
30:53
stressed when I'm watching a film and I feel really
30:55
stressful. I'm watching this one.
30:56
I still feel stressful. I'm watching 3 days the condo,
30:58
but not as much. So that's why it wins over for
31:01
me. And Redford is still, you know,
31:02
marvellous and both. Yeah, Redford's great.
31:04
Yeah, is a Pollock film as well as you Can't go wrong with
31:07
Sydney Pollock. Yeah.
31:08
Very close though, very close. Oh yeah.
31:10
Very close. Yeah.
31:11
What about you, Matt? Yeah, Lords like all the ones
31:13
Westie mentioned. Marathon man as well.
31:15
I thought that yes, go back before original.
31:20
Five incredible films at Marathon Man Woo.
31:24
I love marathon man. I love marathon man.
31:26
I hate the dentist. Upon the original Manchurian
31:30
candidate as well. I was great Frankenheimer love
31:32
that and then once I come up to spotlights we had like I said,
31:35
but I think this one will always be the top one for me purely
31:38
because of the factual basis of it.
31:40
Like you, there's a great, but to me, you just can't compare a
31:43
fictional conspiracy on screen, no matter how well done it is,
31:46
to something that really happened, to something where
31:48
lives were in peril and, you know, was something that did
31:51
have genuine real world ramifications that this story
31:54
did. You just can't argue with it.
31:55
Well, that's it, yeah. Yeah, it would be this one for
31:59
me for that reason. Yeah, well, I mean, Pakula is
32:02
the granddaddy in this genre, isn't he?
32:04
You mentioned them. He's paranoid.
32:06
Trilogy clued to the parallax view.
32:07
All the President's Men, some of my favorites from any genre from
32:11
any decade. There's a lesser known one
32:13
called the Domino Principle which is great.
32:16
Gene Hackman, right? Not seen that.
32:18
But the one that is a contender to all the president's men's
32:22
throne for me is blow out. You that would come in here.
32:26
Course. Course it is.
32:27
Course. Course it is.
32:28
Yeah. Split day up there department,
32:32
Travolta. Yeah.
32:34
Allen headphones, yeah, just at the tail end of this fine run of
32:40
kind of conspiracy films that came out in 81.
32:43
It's not 70s conspiracy. You're not allowed to put it in.
32:45
You've you've shoehorned it in. I'm fine because Matt said the
32:49
Manchurian. Candidate that's like 60. 3.
32:52
Yeah. Yeah, OK.
32:54
Yeah, OK. Yeah, but De Palma, Travolta,
32:57
Philadelphia, I'm desperate to cover it on classic and I have
33:00
been since we started. It's failed miserably on Paul
33:04
after Paul after Paul. One of these days, some of the
33:07
some people are going to make my wish come.
33:08
True, you have to put it down as a double feature probably, but.
33:10
I haven't. It came last I'm.
33:13
Trying to help but what did you put up with?
33:15
Dressed to kill, another De Palma sleazy classic just to
33:21
bring it back on track. Blow out all the presidents men.
33:25
If they were to Duke it out, I think it'd be a split decision,
33:28
right? With all the president's men,
33:30
just just Pippin. Split day out.
33:33
Split day out. On the tooth, that's a lovely
33:35
move, yeah. So an incredible Sean from
33:38
Pakula, probably the jewel in his very underappreciated
33:41
directing crown. Oh, absolutely, the cast.
33:50
The coming together of two of the greats from the decade
33:52
dominates our cast section. We're starting off with Dustin
33:55
Hoffman. Westie, it's over to you.
33:56
Yeah. I mean.
33:57
Great hair, great outfits, great.
34:01
Great. He is great.
34:03
Kidding. He's just a really excitable
34:05
kid. Like he reminds me of my son in
34:06
the opening sequence when he's standing in the doorways like
34:08
what's happening now. He's really charismatic but he's
34:12
not creepy and this character should be creepy and pretty
34:15
annoying to be honest. The way he just hounds people
34:18
and wants to know answers, the way he just picks up the story
34:21
and start to rewrite it and polishing it.
34:23
But he backs it up with that charisma.
34:26
And I think he is wonderful. And against Redford, I was, I
34:29
was always thinking, I mean, you see him like in Midnight Cowboy
34:33
and you're like, what the fuck? That's an incredible
34:35
performance. Yeah.
34:36
But you just, you know for a fact that he can hold the film
34:39
when he's by himself. And I've, as I've said before,
34:41
and Redford can hold the film when he's by himself.
34:43
And that's a very rare thing and there's a massive trust between
34:46
him and the director. He's not scared pushing on the
34:48
close up, he's not scared to go to a wide shot.
34:49
He's got a physicality when he comes back into the room and
34:52
he's had 20 cups of coffee you believe he has.
34:56
It's just a wonderfully fast-paced with the way he's
34:59
speaking, the dialogue and he's delivering it and he knows it so
35:01
well. Really accomplished, really
35:03
excellent performance and it's very, very watchable.
35:05
And it's hard to say because he shouldn't be next to Redford.
35:08
He should be like a troll under a bridge as everyone should be.
35:12
A beautiful man but holds his own.
35:14
He's no, no, no. I'm gonna smoke in every single
35:17
scene and I'm gonna make it look cool.
35:19
You kind of go how annoying is it to stand next to someone
35:21
who's kind of small impish big hair where he thinks a lot of
35:25
himself and having a tab and a lift.
35:26
You want to knock them out, but Hoffman, I'll be like, no,
35:29
that's fine. It's absolutely fine when he
35:31
pulls it off. He's fucking great in this
35:33
trainers with a suit every time love it.
35:35
I. Don't think I've ever seen 2
35:38
performers in a film. 2 lead performers have such a natural
35:42
balance. Yeah, yeah.
35:45
I think Hoffman on his own is fantastic and think Bernstein's
35:49
like a chameleon. The way he goes about his job.
35:51
He's kind of flirting with the women that he meets when he's
35:53
trying to weedle out information.
35:55
But then he plays the kind of klutz a little bit when he's
35:57
talking to the bookkeeper to make himself kind of see maybe
36:00
unthreatening. Yeah, yeah.
36:01
He gets tough with Dadis when he doesn't get what he wants.
36:03
Yeah, manipulates a secretary and gets it that way exactly.
36:06
Yeah, brilliant. And I don't think we see the
36:08
real Bernstein. And I think that's great range
36:10
from Hoffman, very subtle and obviously a reason why he's one
36:14
of the best. Yeah.
36:15
Yeah, Thing is about Hoffman, or like, he was probably the
36:18
biggest star of the time. Redford had had hits, but
36:21
nothing on the scale of, like, Straw Dogs, Graduate, Midnight
36:24
Cowboy. And by this point, Hoffman would
36:27
be nominated for three Oscars, I think by this point.
36:29
So they did have to have that conversation about billing and
36:33
what they went back to. Have you seen the man who shot
36:35
Liberty Valance? John Ford.
36:36
West. Oh yeah, yeah.
36:37
Yeah, yeah, which has got James sued and John Wayne, obviously
36:40
both huge at the time. And they took inspiration that
36:42
because what they decided to do was if you watch the trailer or
36:45
if you look at the posters, it's Redford who gets top billing.
36:48
But in the actual credits of the film, it's often that's the
36:51
that's the balance they decided on to the.
36:53
Dynamic and it works as well because they've got to agree and
36:56
that goes through. They did agree on the rules and
36:59
stick to it. Yeah, I think Hoffman going,
37:02
considering where we are now, I think Hoffman got the best deal
37:05
considering his name comes first.
37:06
Nobody sees any of the ads anymore, the posters.
37:09
I think of the past with streaming.
37:10
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
37:11
They spent a lot of time with Woodward, the actual Woodward
37:14
and Bernstein. Woodward was more reserved with
37:16
Redford, but Bernstein and Hoffman got on like a house on
37:18
fire. Hoffman was invited for dinner,
37:21
and he wore Bernstein watch throughout filming.
37:23
I think he's more kind of your Method Man, isn't he?
37:25
He is also Hoffman requested that there was an exact replica
37:29
of his of Bernstein wallet made with everything that was inside
37:33
his wallet wonderful and wore it through the whole production.
37:36
That's exact replica of it. The receipts that were in there
37:39
is man. Which money was in there?
37:40
Everything. Fantastic.
37:41
Yeah. Yeah, he's renowned for that,
37:43
isn't he? Both actors learned each other's
37:45
lines, so the characters could naturally finish one another's
37:48
lines. Too much that's.
37:49
Outrageous. That's it is great, Redford
37:52
said. It was important because they're
37:54
two totally different characters with different religious beliefs
37:56
and political backgrounds, but they are in harmony with their
37:59
thoughts and motivations generally, yeah.
38:02
When he gets his political views across, when they're sitting
38:04
totally Sloan and he just looks at him, yeah.
38:07
Yeah, I am. Too.
38:08
I'm a Republican. Yeah, yeah, great.
38:12
Yeah. And Matt, you're obviously going
38:17
to be talking about Bobby Redford, certainly.
38:19
I'm, Yeah. Great hair on him as well.
38:24
Lovely hair. Wears a suit amazingly well.
38:26
Love him. I'm just saying, Woodward, it
38:29
demands a very particular kind of actor, which Redford is,
38:31
because it's a very cerebral performance.
38:34
It has to be someone who could convince you.
38:36
This is a guy who was a real politics nerd but also does have
38:40
that killer journalistic instinct, and he's someone who's
38:43
really intelligent. And Redford just makes it
38:45
really, like, internalized performance and puts on screen
38:49
the idea that this is a man whose mind is constantly race
38:53
and constantly putting things together.
38:55
All these leads, all these clues.
38:57
So, you know, as much as I love them, I can't imagine some like
38:59
Nicholson or Deny or doing this part because it's not about
39:02
being a big movie star. Charisma.
39:04
Yeah. It's about keeping that all
39:06
inside and resisting every impulse to come across like a
39:10
big star and just coming across instead as a guy who is
39:13
obviously very intelligent, better than that nor disrespect
39:17
intended, but probably just not all that interesting.
39:19
But he doesn't have an arc. He's diligent and he's studious.
39:23
He's probably not that much fun to go down the pub with.
39:25
No. But Redford really gets into
39:28
that and really makes that work somehow, which I think is really
39:30
impressive. Yeah, and he never really uses
39:32
anybody until we get we'll get to the bookkeeper at the end.
39:34
But the way that the way that Hoffman carried, you know,
39:37
Bernstein just manipulates people and uses that the
39:40
charisma. You just look at Robert Redford
39:41
and go all you need to do is talk to anyone for 5 minutes and
39:44
you get. Any punished in their hand.
39:46
Exactly. But he has this real honesty,
39:48
this quarterback, Yeah. A real integrity, yeah.
39:50
Yeah, he does, Which again, is interesting because that's the
39:53
type of thing I think it's an act.
39:54
He might think that's a bit boring, that he's a bit of a Boy
39:56
Scout, but Redford just sticks to it.
39:58
And and I think that's brilliant.
39:59
And it's obviously not a buddy movie, but so much of this does
40:02
rest on how Redford and Hoffman playoff each other.
40:04
And they do that bringing like the same way Woodward clocks up.
40:07
Bernstein is picking up his work from the copy desk.
40:10
And rewriting it, that is brilliant because it establishes
40:13
that relationship in just a few lines so efficiently.
40:16
Like when Woodward confronts him about it.
40:18
There's no ego, you know? He says.
40:19
I don't mind what you did. I mind the way you did it.
40:22
Get it right, and boom, there you go.
40:24
That's all that. Means and Bernstein's just like.
40:26
I don't want to fight. I don't want to fight either.
40:27
Yeah, you know what? I.
40:28
Mean it's amazing. That initial understanding,
40:31
yeah. I love that scene.
40:32
After his first conversation with Hunt he goes to get the go
40:35
ahead from Howard Martin Balsam's character and he gives
40:38
them all the info. He says I've been told that
40:41
Mister Coulson's got no knowledge of what he gets and he
40:43
said I never asked about it. They volunteered that he was
40:46
innocent when nobody asked if he was guilty.
40:48
And how he replies. Careful how you write it.
40:50
Great dialogue that isn't. It dynamite.
40:52
When he looks back and says who knows who Coulson is because
40:55
he's just asked who he was like in the previous.
40:57
Series. Yeah, yeah.
41:00
That's. Fantastic.
41:02
Fucking brilliant. Yeah, yeah, wonderful.
41:05
The story of the film starts with Robert Redford.
41:07
He was promoting the candidates and was on a train from
41:09
Jacksonville to Miami. The Watergate story broke and he
41:13
asked journalists who were on the train about it.
41:15
And they're kind of given the brush off, but suggested the
41:17
story may be deeper than originally reported, but that
41:20
it'll get swept under the carpet because Nixon was too powerful
41:23
and he would go after the press. Yeah, yeah.
41:26
Redford said this chicken shit journalistic approach kind of
41:28
irked him. He'd seen Woodward and
41:31
Bernstein's articles covering the Watergate story in
41:33
particularly when they implicate Haldeman without corroboration.
41:36
And he said people who take wild swings and misses interest me.
41:41
So he contacted the pay to express his interest, but they
41:43
kind of battered them away. They didn't want it to be to
41:46
Hollywood fight. But a key piece of advice given
41:49
by Redford struck with them when they came to write in their
41:52
novel, which this film is based on.
41:54
He told them that the most interesting way to tell a story
41:57
is laying the evidence out piece by piece as they uncovered it.
41:59
Instead of revealing it all at once.
42:01
He should make it a detective story.
42:04
Yeah, you told them to focus on the method over the result.
42:07
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think that's a key in the
42:10
film's success. Oh, absolutely.
42:12
You don't even get the result. It's just tapped out for you.
42:15
It's tapped out for you. As you watch it, you go, OK.
42:17
Yeah. It's all about the method.
42:19
It is, you're right. So Redford, trying to get the
42:21
core of Woodward, said that he was on the surface, Bob appeared
42:24
to be just perfect. You just knew his lawn was cut.
42:27
He was very humble, very, very polite, but concluded underneath
42:32
he had this killer instinct of sheer hard work.
42:35
He would let Bernstein get away with making assumptions in mind,
42:38
his character trait, dramatic effect in the film and tell it's
42:41
just got that, really, that's exactly what he does without
42:44
even seeing anything. Even if you had no dialogue, you
42:47
can still see that. He pulls Bernstein back down,
42:49
doesn't he, when they're in this scene, when they're in the car,
42:51
and he keeps on pulling them back to reality?
42:53
Yeah, yeah, let's him go when he needs to, though.
42:55
He knows exactly how to use him. But yeah, it doesn't seem like
42:58
it's manipulative. It just seems like he's doing it
43:00
just for the best of. Yeah, yeah.
43:02
And I think it goes back to that kind of like moral compass that
43:05
we were talking about that he has.
43:06
Yeah, you need to get it right. It needs to be right.
43:08
You can't just hear wild flights are fancy.
43:10
A real amount of integrity. Yeah, doesn't get like
43:12
personally offended by no, like Bradley cutting the story
43:15
downside. No, we didn't have it.
43:17
Yeah, yeah. That's great.
43:18
Just more annoyed that it's not right.
43:20
Yeah. Yeah, I need to get it right.
43:22
Yeah. So on Redford and Hoffman, we've
43:25
got our second question from one of our Patreon supporters.
43:28
This one, it's from Ryan Chipo. Hello, Ryan.
43:33
He asks where do the performances from Redford and
43:35
Hoffman rank in their respective careers.
43:37
He says in such a solid film and the performances are incredible.
43:42
I mean, it's obvious they both had incredible careers.
43:44
Redford took a slightly different course when he took up
43:46
directing and producing. I think he always saw himself as
43:50
more than just an actor. Not to downplay anybody who's
43:53
just an actor because, you know, I mean, sure, we would jump at
43:56
the chance. Well, of course.
43:57
Despite the strong field, I don't think you can look too far
44:00
beyond these performances for Redford.
44:02
I do like sneakers. I do like legal eagles.
44:05
But this is I think this is his best and it's not full of
44:09
bluster. It's not as fun and nuanced as
44:12
but Cassidy, let's say. Yeah, but yeah, this is my
44:15
favorite from him. It's more of a tough call with
44:18
Hoffman. I absolutely love him in the
44:20
graduates. I'd say that Lenny's probably
44:22
he's a better performance, to be honest.
44:24
I mean, it's not a barrel of laughs.
44:28
It's an incredible performance. Just don't mention Ishtar
44:32
whatever you do. Number one for me that.
44:37
Matt, number one for you. Obviously with the Bullet, I
44:42
think the difference between them is I think Redford was
44:44
always more of a movie star, and I do love them both.
44:47
And I think Hoffman was more of an actor and he did have the
44:49
bigger range. And like you said, Redford I
44:51
think also has had one eye in becoming a producer and a
44:54
director. So there's a slight imbalance
44:57
there in that I think Hoffman has more competition in terms of
45:01
great roles. So with Redford, to me, you've
45:03
got like the double whammy of the Sting and Butch Cassidy.
45:06
He's creating a candidate. All this lost from a few years
45:09
ago. But then with Hoffman, you know,
45:12
two of the funniest performances I've ever seen in the Graduate
45:15
and Tootsie. But then he can go really dark
45:17
and gritty. Lenny, Midnight Cowboy and even
45:20
up to present day to do like smaller stuff like the My Word
45:23
story. So for me, I think this would be
45:25
top five for Redford, but it wouldn't be top five for Hoffman
45:28
because of the divergent of Korea.
45:30
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go along with that.
45:31
What about USD? I'm going to put the again
45:34
second because I just there was other things that I'd seen and
45:38
I'll always remember Hoffman in Rain Man, OK.
45:42
It was like kind of the first time I'd seen him and I just
45:44
thought, Jesus Christ, what fucking performance that is.
45:48
And it's it's kind of overlooked now in almost pastiche or a
45:51
cliche of playing that type of character.
45:53
Yeah, very much. But he does it so well.
45:55
He does. It's just incredible.
45:57
But, and I would put that third and I'll put all the presidents
46:00
men second. But the one that resonates with
46:02
me, the one that lives with me, and the one that I'll say is a
46:05
performance that will reduce me to tears is him and Sleepers.
46:09
It's absolutely love it. And he's, he's just, he's not a
46:15
main character in it, but he's so important as a character and
46:18
as an alcoholic. Like he's, he's he's hired
46:21
because he's shit and he knows that and he, it's such a
46:24
heartbreak and he brings everything to that.
46:27
I think he's just fucking phenomenal in that film.
46:30
Yeah, absolutely unbelievable. And again, it's but Cassidy's
46:33
third for me, because I think Redford's just so, so engaging
46:36
in that film. It's just you just want to be
46:37
him. You want to be a great
46:39
character. He's just so good.
46:40
And it's a Sundance kid and you're like, how fast are you?
46:43
Amazing. Yeah.
46:44
I just want to be that guy. Yes, thanks.
46:46
All the presidents been setting because I think it's just such a
46:48
charismatic performance. But again, through your days of
46:50
the Condor for me, and he's just right wonderful in that.
46:52
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is a great performance.
46:55
Yeah, very much so. Two of the best from two of the
46:58
best on All the President's Men. Like we've said, the film is
47:04
stuff full of extraordinary character actors.
47:06
The Washington Post crew alone, made-up of Jason robots, Martin
47:10
Balson, Jack Warden. They add so much authenticity to
47:12
the film. I think these guys feel like
47:14
they've been working at the Post for decades.
47:16
They're not actors. Well, didn't robots come in on
47:19
his days off just to hang about in the back of the sets?
47:21
That's right, get picked up by the camera.
47:23
Yeah, that's right. Amazing, amazing to do that.
47:25
I'll just hang about in case I'm in in the background at some
47:28
point. Everybody's everybody's great in
47:30
it. I mean, I'd never get tired of
47:32
anyone. He turns the camera to anybody
47:35
in this film and I'm engaged. Yeah, it's great when robots on
47:39
the phone to Ken Coulson near the end and he's he's got his
47:42
feet up again, a wife and a family and a dog and a cat,
47:45
right. His delivery when he says, I
47:49
don't want to print that you're in Sally's apartment.
47:51
I just want to know what you said in Sally's apartment.
47:54
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Korea.
47:56
Brilliant. Brilliant.
47:58
It's like when he gets angry with him as well and he's some
48:00
Sandy. What's Teen?
48:01
Oh, you can't go wrong with silence.
48:05
It's their warmth after that. Do you know what it is?
48:08
I don't know what it is, you know.
48:09
It's going to the headteachers office, isn't?
48:11
It. That true?
48:14
Yeah. And he said we haven't had any
48:16
luck. We'll get some.
48:17
Get some. Yeah, I'm using that.
48:21
Yeah. I haven't got any luck yet.
48:23
We're going fucking get something.
48:24
It's just yes. Great.
48:27
I think my favorite it's got to be Jack Warden as Harry.
48:31
Guys. Great Woodward and Bernstein's
48:32
enthusiastic sponsor when he's fighting fire with Bradley and
48:36
Howard, he's full of support for them and he's such a solid,
48:39
dependable presence Warden. It's great when Woodward and
48:43
Bernstein a button heads at the start about the article and he
48:46
and he just steams past them. Woodward, Bernstein, you're on
48:48
the story, so don't fuck it up. I just think the support and
48:52
casts are one of the major reasons that the film works.
48:55
It's one of the greatest normal casts for me and I bloody love a
48:59
good ensemble cast. Absolutely, yeah.
49:02
So 2 powerhouse performances in the lead roles with support and
49:05
cast filled out with some of the most respected character actors
49:08
of the era. And it shows.
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50:32
The middle. The first segment that we're
50:36
talking about in the second act starts in deep background with
50:40
the introduction of the playfully nicknamed Deep Throat,
50:43
and it ends with Woodward's telephone conversation with
50:45
Kenneth H Dolberg and Westie. Yeah, you're going to start us
50:50
off in deep background. Thanks.
50:53
Thanks for that much worse introduction, couldn't it?
50:59
The way this scene now is almost a cliche of itself when you
51:03
watch it again, there's so many pastiches of this.
51:06
There's so many. I mean, Chris Carter took it and
51:08
just ran with it with The X-Files, You know, the small gun
51:10
guy. It's just this is it.
51:12
There's a conspiracy and somebody has the truth and
51:14
somebody wants to know the truth.
51:15
So the meet in an underground car parking, it's exactly the
51:17
same. It's always the same, but Willis
51:19
just invented this and Hal Holbrook brings such an
51:22
incredible performance. It's so understated, it's so
51:25
great and knows that where the lighting is and how to work and
51:28
when he first lights that cigarette need to see that glow.
51:31
And there's such a lovely orange and teal mix here, which is
51:35
classic in cinema, but it just works so well where it's just so
51:37
blue. Lovely.
51:38
He has got these really lovely touches of orange.
51:41
I just love the ways that Holbrooke's shot.
51:43
I just love the way this kind of old fashioned strip light just
51:46
across his eyes. There's that close up of his
51:49
eyes as well when he's you know, you know, he's got the
51:51
information but he can't give it over.
51:53
It's just dark, it's shadowed, he's not revealed.
51:57
But also it's perfect for the character because the character
52:00
is basically a shadow, saying I can't give you any light unless
52:03
you find it yourself and go into this.
52:05
And the more that it meets him, the more he's kind of lit a
52:07
little bit more, and then more of it's revealed a little bit
52:09
more. But this first, first meeting is
52:12
just absolutely wonderful because there's just that
52:14
whistling in the background and it just ramps up that paranoia.
52:18
And there's always this kind of really low, constant home in the
52:22
background and you're always on edge.
52:23
And it's just really, really well done.
52:26
I do love sequences in multi story card box.
52:29
I don't know why start Islander. It's amazing, but just it has
52:34
that. On par with this I think.
52:36
I've got Highlander and all the presidents men.
52:38
I never thought be able to do it, but it's just great.
52:40
His dialogues great. We talked about Liddy put his
52:42
hand by the candle and he says, you know, the trick is just not
52:44
minding. Yeah, that's.
52:46
Incredible dialogue that isn't. Just so, so a powerful way.
52:50
It's just you can do anything as long as you don't care what
52:52
people think, as long as you don't care about what you're
52:54
doing to yourself, as long as you're looking for the truth.
52:57
You have to hold your hand over that candle and don't care that
52:59
it burns. And that's his advice, you know,
53:02
And you get the classic line that's been used over and over
53:04
again. And it was invented in this.
53:06
And it's follow the money, you know, follow that trail, follow
53:09
that People have listened. Watch this film, I mean, Fincher
53:12
especially, you'll watch this film and they'll say something
53:14
like follow the money. And then they've went, oh, I've
53:16
thought of about 50 films from that one line that I can create
53:20
now. And big screenwriters are just
53:21
right. Follow the money.
53:22
OK. There's a woody trail.
53:23
There's a trailer. This is, you know, it's got this
53:24
kind of real depth to it and it ramps the paranoia up exactly
53:28
when you need it to. And it's still and it's steady
53:31
and it's quiet because The Newsroom is constantly going.
53:35
There's just some design. It's just constant barrage of
53:38
people talking and typewriters and, you know, everything's just
53:42
so busy. And then all of a sudden you're
53:43
in a dark place. You know the answers, you're not
53:45
getting them. This is where you should get
53:47
them, and you don't get them. And that's what I love about
53:49
this scene. Absolutely.
53:51
Deep Throat's identity remained a mystery to all until 2005,
53:54
when former FBI Deputy Director Mark Felt came out as the mall
53:58
as Deep Throat. Yeah, Woodward was very quick to
54:01
corroborate this. It suggested that Felt was
54:04
disenfranchised in his role in the FBI because he was passed
54:07
over for the role of director once Jaga Hoover died.
54:10
Yeah, so that's why he's squealed.
54:12
Well, yeah, yeah, would went straight in there.
54:14
Look, see, I was right. Look.
54:17
Right all along. This guy's just pissed off now
54:19
because he's getting what he wants.
54:21
I mean, Holbrook, incredible as ever.
54:23
Yeah, unreal. And apparently Holbrook he was
54:26
the only choice. And Woodward was a real advocate
54:28
for him because he felt there was a strong physical
54:30
resemblance between Holbrook and felt law.
54:32
He didn't make that obvious to Peculiar.
54:35
Yeah, I mean, he's kept that. He's done well to keep that a
54:38
secret, all this. Because it must be so tempted to
54:40
tell at least one person. Yeah, I know.
54:44
Considering how much exposure he had on that secret as well,
54:47
yeah. But Holbrook turned it down
54:48
initially because he thought it'd be like a huge lack of
54:51
screen time. He changed his mind after
54:53
Redford made a personal visit to his house, saying The Deep
54:55
Throat will be the character the audience will remember the most.
54:58
And he's not wrong. I don't think.
54:59
I mean, you always think of these, these three meetings,
55:02
definitely. You definitely do, Yeah.
55:03
They really stick out. Yeah, and if anyone said to me
55:06
if I was a nightmare and just be like, look, you've got all the
55:08
information, you got to be really, really shady and Gordon
55:12
Willis is going to shoot you in an underground garage with a
55:14
backlit dark and you get a smoke tab.
55:16
So I'll be fucking straight in there.
55:19
And it's Redford telling you that as well.
55:20
Yeah. It's Redford tells me to do.
55:23
Yeah, I mean, Bobby, you get to look like you've got more
55:25
intelligence than Robert Redford and he's in front of you.
55:28
Yeah, OK, I'll do. That he's sweating.
55:30
Yeah, he's sweating. You're not amazing.
55:32
I love the scene where Bernstein takes a little trip down to
55:35
Miami to speak to Dadis about Barker's phone and banking
55:38
records. Yeah, great.
55:40
He's been brought down under seemingly false pretenses, and
55:43
he's left waiting all day smoking at least three packets
55:46
of cigarettes. Outrageous.
55:49
Constantly. Spilling over.
55:52
I like that the secretary calls him Bernstein and stumbles over
55:56
the pronunciation when she's on the phone.
55:58
Another error that makes it in the film despite being hailed as
56:01
as one of the most accurate films ever.
56:03
This moment where he dupes the secretary with a phony phone
56:06
call that isn't true. No, that was in his version of
56:09
the script, wasn't it? That he wrote with his wife.
56:12
That's exactly, yeah. Bernstein tried.
56:14
It's classic Bernstein that. Yeah, yeah.
56:16
Big look. How much comedy James can I get
56:18
up to? Exactly.
56:19
It's the most like Hollywood version of anything in this
56:22
film. It's just ridiculous.
56:23
It wouldn't happen. His voice is exactly the same on
56:26
phone as well. Yeah, it is.
56:27
It is he's. Going to be gone 2 minutes.
56:29
Yeah, well, I'm wondering who this could be.
56:32
It's like when Homer rings of trying to pretend to be Mr.
56:34
Smithers. I don't know.
56:42
But I like the same because it shows Bernstein's journalistic
56:45
skills. It's a nice cheeky move to get
56:47
rid of the secretary. Shows he can think on his feet
56:50
and he is quite crafty. And when he doesn't get what he
56:52
wants from Dadis, he plays hardball to make him crack.
56:55
And a great performance from Ned Beatty as well.
56:58
Yeah, 1 scene in the entire Yeah.
57:01
He's. Unreal.
57:02
Hoffman on the phone to Redford straight after it's sweating in
57:05
the Miami Heat. Just a great image.
57:07
So Geddy as well isn't. He yeah, yeah.
57:09
Fantastic. I'm coming home.
57:12
He said that I've got it in my notes, doesn't mean I've got
57:17
loads of shit in my notes. What about you Matt, on this
57:22
sequence? Yeah, that phone call would
57:24
would makes the doll Burke. Like I've never been as
57:27
enthralled by a telephone conversation in my life.
57:29
And I mean telephone conversations I've had with
57:31
other people. No one has been as interesting
57:33
as this one. Like the sheer patients to hold
57:37
that slow push in for as long as they do.
57:40
On a split diopter as well. On a split diopter.
57:43
Do. That is.
57:45
And The thing is, it's invisible as well for the most part, until
57:48
you realise it's happening now. Oh my God.
57:50
When Redford is getting bigger and bigger in the frame as he's
57:53
getting more and more information, which is how the
57:56
dude with a hard run call because the clarity of the
57:59
situation is dawning on him. I think this has to be the
58:01
moment where if you're on the fence, this is the moment where
58:04
the film just hooks. Yeah, I have to know what's
58:06
going on from here, because it's another example where Peculiar
58:10
uses visual information to tell the story really well.
58:13
The fact that in the background there's so much noise going on.
58:16
Yeah, everyone's agitated about this story in the background.
58:19
And that story, it's McGovern, who is the Democratic candidate
58:22
for president, seeing his running mate is dropping out
58:25
because of the smear campaign. Yeah, which is the crime that
58:28
Woodward is getting to the heart of, But we don't know that yet.
58:31
And that's in a reason to Genius.
58:33
That's incredible. It's actually in the background,
58:36
but Woodward's got to try to drown the noise out to realize
58:39
it's literally in the background.
58:41
And he drowns the noise out visually, like it doesn't, it's
58:44
not audible, it's just visual because he's obviously his
58:47
attention is half and half. That's why I just split that out
58:50
and then it starts his own attention and he owns it for him
58:53
and everything else is blurred. It's great.
58:54
Yeah, yeah, it is. It's amazing.
58:56
And Redford just incredible. Like the tangible excitement.
58:59
He asked that he's really on to something.
59:01
It's a good lead, but he's got to be focused.
59:03
And it's really funny when Dahlberg goes.
59:05
I've just been through a terrible ordeal.
59:07
My name is Mike. Has been kidnapped, Yeah.
59:09
Which is a true story as well. Which is a true.
59:11
Story, but So what? Yeah, what would see you on
59:14
orders just goes well. How do you think you checked on
59:16
your Barker's account? Straight doesn't like pay any.
59:19
Attention. Yeah, and then when Dahlberg
59:22
wins him back, but he's already on the phone to McGregor, the
59:24
next lead. So you can see he's got like all
59:26
these plates spinning in the air and that's not amazed more.
59:29
He gets the names wrong, but says Mr. McGregor, Ed Dahlberg.
59:32
And that was a genuine fluff by Redford.
59:34
You can see the panic in his eyes for a spit second he's
59:37
gone. I've had just mucked this
59:39
incredibly intense take. 6 minutes. 6 minutes.
59:42
And it's at the end he's like, have I mucked it up?
59:44
And he continues on. And it's brilliant how they kept
59:46
that in. Yeah.
59:47
So yeah, that's. Absolutely.
59:48
How to keep going. And she comes by this airline
59:50
and he's like good carbon. She's on the phone and then he
59:52
picks it up and he delivers that on top of making a mistake.
59:54
Yeah, it's great. It's set above that.
59:57
Yeah, it's ridiculous. Yeah, and Redford, like
1:00:00
Bradford's delivery, he's got to remember his lines, he's got to
1:00:02
remember his mark, but he's got to keep it interesting in the
1:00:05
frame with facial expressions where he's hanging on waiting on
1:00:07
the other end of the phone. It's just it's an amazing
1:00:09
performance. It is.
1:00:11
It just goes between the two and Mr. McGregor, can I put you on
1:00:15
hold, You know, then to load a typewriter and then go on?
1:00:19
I couldn't do it. It's impossible.
1:00:22
Yeah, wonderful. Following this scene, Woodward
1:00:27
and Bernstein found out that there's a whole rat's nest of
1:00:30
illegal shit going on at CREEP. They press a colleague for a
1:00:33
list of employees at CREEP and go door to door for information.
1:00:36
And that's the sequence that we're talking about here.
1:00:38
And I'm going to start us off. It's made very clear that nobody
1:00:42
wants to talk to these guys. They're getting the door slammed
1:00:44
in their face the moment when they get to Betty, but she's
1:00:48
clearly terrified to see anything and they go back and
1:00:51
she puts slams the door. She's almost crying.
1:00:53
And they'll see you. Great performance.
1:00:56
Yeah, it's amazing how to have the raincoat of his head.
1:00:58
And I thought he called. Yeah, like if she lost her mind,
1:01:02
what the fuck is going? On these guys are completely at
1:01:06
a loose end and nowhere to turn. So when they finally get to
1:01:09
speak to somebody who's so accommodating and welcomes them
1:01:12
in, it's such a relief. It is.
1:01:14
But then you get the good punch that she isn't the right Miss
1:01:18
Abbott and we're right back to where we started.
1:01:20
And the lighting and framing of that scene when compared to the
1:01:24
one with Betty is is just fantastic.
1:01:27
There's such a huge contrast because Betty's partially
1:01:29
obscured by the door. She's in the shadows, very
1:01:32
little to come out. She's clearly got something to
1:01:34
hide. But Miss Abbott, she's fully in
1:01:36
the frame. She's beautifully lit, nothing
1:01:38
to hide. Yeah, you could watch this
1:01:40
without dialogue and understand what's going on.
1:01:42
Absolutely. It's magnificent stuff, yeah.
1:01:45
Just another master class and slow burn storyteller which he
1:01:48
gave with Bernstein when he goes to see the bookkeeper.
1:01:50
Because again, it's just these small little visual details, the
1:01:53
fact that the posts on the staircase frame the bookkeeper
1:01:57
perfectly. And it's that obstacle in
1:01:58
between her and Bernstein. And it's just perfect because
1:02:02
it's the fact that Bernstein has to play it so carefully because
1:02:05
she is so paranoid about giving something we're.
1:02:08
But he's the one that should not be in the situation of the two
1:02:11
of them because he's one who's always jumping ahead.
1:02:13
He's the excitable one. This is not a good assignment
1:02:15
film to do. And this is without a jug of
1:02:17
coffee down his thought because he's got to stay there so long.
1:02:21
And you can tell I've been patient is absolutely killing
1:02:23
him here. And he can barely do it.
1:02:24
He can barely keep the reaction off his face when she casually
1:02:28
drops in that the broad in $6 million needs to say 6,000,000.
1:02:33
OK, just make a little note of that.
1:02:34
And you can tell, like, his head is just exploring inside, like,
1:02:38
esteem's come down his ears. And Jane Alexander, I mean,
1:02:41
she's so good here. You know, just the scene and
1:02:44
then the next scene, and that's it.
1:02:46
And she's really good. You can see it's almost painful
1:02:49
for her to open up. You can feel like conflict
1:02:51
because she knows what's been going on isn't right.
1:02:54
But she's also extremely fearful for her life.
1:02:57
And this is the first time you saw the thing.
1:02:59
Actually, there could be serious repercussions.
1:03:01
Funny one who does speak up about this.
1:03:02
And I think it's when the film takes a real dramatic turn.
1:03:05
Yeah. It then ends with this huge
1:03:07
release of tension when he gets back to Woodward and all that
1:03:09
caffeine is racing through system and he can't see sell and
1:03:12
he can't stop. Robbed an on in Woodward's
1:03:13
reaction to all those, like scraps of pee pieces thrown on
1:03:16
him. And he's like, these are the
1:03:17
notes. Like, how is he supposed to make
1:03:20
sense of any of this? Not Cookie Thor from Bernstein
1:03:23
Woodward. Yeah, that's really good.
1:03:24
Don't want to cookie. Yeah.
1:03:26
It's just the perfect amount of Comic Relief to dial down the
1:03:29
tension a little bit that Bernstein has been feeling.
1:03:32
But then the snap right back into it, that tactical thinking,
1:03:35
like what they're going to do next way.
1:03:36
If we say we know P is Potter, FP isn't Potter, well then we're
1:03:40
screwed, yeah. Yeah, everything's hanging on
1:03:43
this. Yeah.
1:03:44
It's a great line as well when she's not giving them enough and
1:03:46
he's like, coffee's cold and he's just prepared to drink the
1:03:50
the cold coffee and go through it all until it heats up again.
1:03:53
You know, this is a great moment where you just say he's prepared
1:03:55
to do anything. Yeah.
1:03:57
Her delivery when she says if you guys could get John
1:03:59
Mitchell, that would be beautiful.
1:04:00
Yeah, Yeah. The power and the emotion and,
1:04:03
and what what that means to her is there for all to see.
1:04:06
She got Oscar nominated for those two scenes.
1:04:09
Wow. Incredible.
1:04:10
Wow, amazing. Incredible work.
1:04:12
Westie, what about you? I mean, I'm the same I'm going
1:04:14
to I'm going to stay on that performance because when they
1:04:16
come back the next day and they've got the plan and they
1:04:18
know what they're going to do and they're going to try and,
1:04:19
you know, cheat her out of it really by pushing things other
1:04:24
ways and saying P&P is Porter. And I would have put that up
1:04:27
completely. I would just be like, what's
1:04:28
what's the line, right? Can I have a peek just in there?
1:04:33
First August is I would absolutely not get up.
1:04:36
It's just wonderful, by the way, that's delivered and it's
1:04:38
wonderful the way it's shot and it's you know what else is
1:04:40
wonderful? And it's the sound design
1:04:42
because finally we're. Sound.
1:04:43
Just birds singing and peaceful and it's the truth and the
1:04:48
getting it in an honest way and it's natural.
1:04:50
It's a natural truth. Natural light, no shadows.
1:04:53
Exactly this is everything's there to play for.
1:04:56
Just sat by yourself behind the table and just just like just
1:04:59
giving it our hairs down just got no more defense.
1:05:03
It's it's it's not even that long this sequence.
1:05:05
I would say it's a couple of minutes, but it's just it
1:05:07
reveals everything that cracks the whole thing wide open.
1:05:10
And I love the fact when he's going.
1:05:11
How much did you get? 25 grand more?
1:05:14
Yeah, 50. And it's just pushing and
1:05:16
pushing one piece. But.
1:05:17
And then she just says, who told you about Porter?
1:05:20
Yeah. And there's that silence.
1:05:22
And you go, oh, but it gives you.
1:05:25
What does it give you? 8 seconds?
1:05:28
And then it's typewriter again. It's a wonderful, wonderful
1:05:34
sequence and one where they actually win.
1:05:36
And what they're doing makes sense in it.
1:05:37
It's a real kind of. It fills the gas tank again and
1:05:40
you're ready to go. Yeah, great.
1:05:43
So the film firing all cylinders now.
1:05:45
Incredible work behind and in front of the camera in the
1:05:48
second act. Brilliant.
1:05:53
The crew. The screenplay for All the
1:05:57
President's Men is complicated story.
1:06:00
It's based on the actual Woodward and Bernstein non
1:06:02
fiction novel, also entitled All the President's Men, published
1:06:05
in 1974. A complicated story, it's
1:06:09
credited a legendary Oscar win and writer William Gold one of
1:06:12
the very best. And what I think is one of the
1:06:16
key factors in making this film as effective as it is, is the
1:06:19
relative simplicity in the writing.
1:06:22
I say simplicity. It's still probably the most
1:06:25
complex screenplayers that I'm aware of.
1:06:28
Yeah, definitely. If you don't have a background
1:06:30
knowledge on the events and the people within, you would imagine
1:06:34
that you'd be lost. But I think Gorman writes it in
1:06:36
a way that you can still follow what's going on without any
1:06:38
prior knowledge. But he also does it without
1:06:46
spoon feeding audience information.
1:06:48
If you're not listening then you're fucked.
1:06:50
Yeah, I would. I would.
1:06:51
I would really appreciate just a fucking teaspoon every now and
1:06:54
again. But yeah, I mean, don't get me
1:06:57
wrong, it's it's very easy to get lost off Sigretti and Liddy
1:07:00
and Creep and Dahlberg and Dadis.
1:07:03
It's very tricky considering we don't see the faces of most of
1:07:06
the people that I talked about here as well.
1:07:09
So it absolutely demands undivided attention.
1:07:12
And if you mind does go wandering for a moment or two,
1:07:14
you are done for. Yeah, you're done for, Yeah.
1:07:17
Definitely. Goldman said.
1:07:18
It's a very complicated story, and I had to simplify it because
1:07:21
the audience cannot keep referring to a scorecard to
1:07:24
determine who is who. Yeah.
1:07:26
And it does have moments of humor as well, which is
1:07:28
absolutely essential to keep the tone great.
1:07:30
When they're in the elevator. And Bernstein tells Woodward
1:07:33
that he shouldn't have told Bradley that they haven't had
1:07:35
any luck, he'll jump all over it.
1:07:37
And Woodward say, really frustrated.
1:07:38
He knows that Bernstein is right, but he's not going to say
1:07:41
anything. He looks around.
1:07:42
Is there anywhere that you don't smoke?
1:07:45
Great. And Bradley screaming Woodstein
1:07:49
is an absolute joy. So it's just these little
1:07:52
Nuggets. It's not laugh out loud humour
1:07:54
or goofy humour or anything like that, but it's just like moments
1:07:57
that the sun comes through the clouds a little bit.
1:07:59
Yeah, brings attention a little bit when it needs to.
1:08:02
When she's talking about the fact that she's separated from
1:08:04
the goat and get the list. And you know what?
1:08:06
Often. So you're looking better.
1:08:07
Yeah, it's that little like laugh.
1:08:08
It's very nice. Yeah.
1:08:10
Wesley, what are your thoughts on the screenplay?
1:08:12
I don't really know because I don't know how much of this is
1:08:16
Goldman, to be honest, as everyone has has got something
1:08:19
to say about this. And I think everyone wants to do
1:08:21
a really, really good job and tell this story and how how
1:08:24
intricate it really is. I don't really think this can be
1:08:26
credited in one person. I think Redford's got a lot to
1:08:29
do with it. Pakula's got a lot to do with
1:08:31
it. Based on the novel that Redford
1:08:32
give them advice on how to write the novel that he's.
1:08:35
Done. So you've got.
1:08:37
To go, well, maybe Redford's just, you know, he knows exactly
1:08:39
what's going on and he's got this real confidence throughout
1:08:41
the whole film. But I don't feel like he's an
1:08:43
actor that's been hired to be in this film.
1:08:46
I believe that he's made this film what it is.
1:08:49
He's kind of part of the birth of it.
1:08:51
And I don't think Goldman actually put in as much as that
1:08:55
he he wanted to put in. I think he's been caught to
1:08:56
saying that the final films about 10% what he actually
1:09:00
applied to the script and from the novel and everything else.
1:09:04
I mean, he's written some incredible films.
1:09:05
You know, he did Butch Cassidy, which is why I think he's in.
1:09:07
They did Papillon, the original Marathon Man.
1:09:09
He wrote wrote the screenplay for Misery.
1:09:11
Princess Bride? Yeah.
1:09:13
Yeah, exactly. And he's done some really,
1:09:15
really good films, but I just think haven't read about this
1:09:17
and done a bit of research on it.
1:09:19
Goldman's actually quoted to saying that if he had his time
1:09:22
again, he would have avoided this film like the plague.
1:09:25
He wouldn't have touched it. He wouldn't have gone anywhere
1:09:27
near it. Yeah, it is a complicated story.
1:09:30
Having secured the rights to the novel, Redford wanted to get the
1:09:33
thoughts of his friend, screenwriter William Gourburn.
1:09:35
Yeah, he worked with him on Butch Cassidy.
1:09:38
That screenplay won an Oscar. Yeah, he just set up the meeting
1:09:41
so he could get his input. When the novel was being
1:09:43
finalized, Redford said that he didn't commissioned Goldman as
1:09:46
the screenwriter, but the book's publisher.
1:09:48
Simon and Schuster sent a copy of the novel to Goldman's agent.
1:09:52
He passed it on to Goldman, and Goldman took this to mean that
1:09:55
he was being asked to adapt it. Right, right, right.
1:09:58
OK. And Redford has since said that
1:10:00
it was only that there were friends, that he didn't
1:10:01
intervene and confess the truth because there were problems
1:10:04
throughout the writing process. Coleman's first draft wasn't
1:10:07
like by anyone, and it garnered the nickname Butch Woodward and
1:10:10
Sundance Bernstein. Which I'd have thought of that.
1:10:18
Do you know who Bernstein was in a relationship with at the time
1:10:21
though? A famous writer.
1:10:23
No, go for it. It's Nora Efron.
1:10:25
All right, OK. So the two of them together,
1:10:28
without being asked by anyone, they wrote a draft, which
1:10:30
Goldman is furious about because, for one thing, they
1:10:33
were novice writers. He'd won an Oscar who were there
1:10:35
to be given him notes. Yeah, but he was also unhappy
1:10:38
with Redford for suggesting that he take the notes and he take
1:10:41
the ideas on board. So right.
1:10:42
Eventually it did kind of blow over, and they didn't go with
1:10:46
what they wrote for the most part.
1:10:47
But everyone has since agreed it should never happen in the first
1:10:50
place. In Bernstein to set his
1:10:51
treatment of Goldman was not sterling.
1:10:55
Right, yeah, it just seems a little bit confused.
1:10:57
But yeah, by the sounds of things, earlier versions did
1:11:01
include some digressions abouts Woodward and Bernstein's private
1:11:05
lives, which a little bit extraneous detail Woodward a
1:11:08
girlfriend, Bernstein had an ex-wife.
1:11:11
Some of the language used to describe women was questionable.
1:11:14
The best lines. Like.
1:11:17
Leggy, delicious looking and one woman having the best boobs in
1:11:22
Virginia. All of those were removed very
1:11:24
early on. Yeah, it was like Bernstein just
1:11:26
made himself look incredible. Apparently they wear the screen.
1:11:29
He made himself look like he. Made himself a dashing.
1:11:31
Really dashing, really charismatic, just a man and get
1:11:34
things done and kind of pissed on Woodward all together.
1:11:37
Goldman just left the meeting when he read it.
1:11:39
He read bits of things. I'm leaving, fuck this.
1:11:41
And Woodward got in touch with Goldman and said, I don't know
1:11:44
what 6 things I've done wrong in my life, but that's one of them,
1:11:47
letting him write that screenplay.
1:11:49
Oh really? Wow.
1:11:51
Fantastic. Six things.
1:11:52
Oh. Yeah, 6.
1:11:53
About six things I've really done wrong, but letting him
1:11:56
write that screenplays one of. Them.
1:11:57
Wow. When Pakula came on board, he
1:12:00
asked for multiple rewrites from Goldman.
1:12:03
He'd never written so many drafts before that didn't hit
1:12:06
the mark. And the word is that Redford and
1:12:08
Pakula made dramatic changes to the final draft, which is what
1:12:11
I've been talking about. Gordon screenplay to get into
1:12:13
the shooting script. So yeah, Gordon would have, I
1:12:16
mean, read this novel, try and write a screenplay about this
1:12:20
and. Then it's an impossible task.
1:12:21
But then do it and then have everyone say no.
1:12:23
Shit, this is better. And then you look, reading one
1:12:26
that's meant to be better, and it's one of the guys who's
1:12:29
written the novel, he's in the film begging themselves up and
1:12:32
the other guy saying sorry and Redford go, and I'm going to
1:12:34
tell you the truth because you'll be made.
1:12:35
It's absolutely ridiculous. Well, Redford's biographer
1:12:42
claims that as little as 10% of the script was written by
1:12:44
Goldman. But Richard Stay, an editor in
1:12:47
chief of Written by Magazine, said that he'd seen various
1:12:50
early versions of the script and competitive the shooting script,
1:12:53
and said that there were majority of identical scenes,
1:12:56
entire sequences, dialogue verbatim, all carried over from
1:12:59
drafted, drafted. Right, right, right, Right.
1:13:01
I've read a lot where it was just, you know, thrown away.
1:13:03
But you don't know. I don't think we'll ever know.
1:13:05
I don't think we'll ever. That's The thing is that it's
1:13:07
two sides of the story. But Stayton concluded that
1:13:10
Goldman with the sole author of All the President's Men.
1:13:13
I find it difficult because it's William Goldman, probably the
1:13:16
most revered screenwriter, of course.
1:13:17
It works. I think that's why I read for
1:13:19
Did it He say he's going to put one person's name on it.
1:13:21
It might as well be Goldman of. Course, but I think it's very
1:13:24
clear that there was a lot of fingers in the pie and but what
1:13:28
isn't clear is is who actually wrote the final script.
1:13:31
I think, I think it's more than just William Goldman.
1:13:33
It's definitely a, you know, a jigsaw from about 5 different
1:13:37
puzzles. Yeah.
1:13:38
Put together and actually the picture makes sense.
1:13:41
One thing is guaranteed. Goldman conceived of the term
1:13:44
follow the money. The actual term was trace the
1:13:46
money, but Goldman wanted to make it snappier.
1:13:49
Well, that's it. Jack's out of just.
1:13:50
For that. No matter, what are your
1:13:53
thoughts on William Goldman slash everybody else's
1:13:56
screenplay? Well, that's it.
1:13:57
I mean, whoever did write it, I think that is very harmonious
1:14:01
with what Pecula wanted to do. And that's that sense that take
1:14:05
away anything that's Hollywood. Don't suggest this was glamorous
1:14:08
because it wasn't. You know, if the one big in
1:14:10
fictional invention is that scene with Bernstein in the
1:14:13
secretary, I think that's pretty good.
1:14:15
Go on. If that's as fictional as it
1:14:16
gets and it is like what peculiar direction?
1:14:19
It's like it's rigorous. You know, there was so intent on
1:14:22
making this truthful as possible.
1:14:24
The the double checked every detail, every line in the script
1:14:27
before signing it off. And I've got nothing but
1:14:29
admiration for a piece of intelligent writing like that
1:14:32
that assumes you're as clever as it is and you can't keep up.
1:14:35
Because what the right gets across is how agonizing it was
1:14:38
to get this story out there because all it takes a small
1:14:41
details to get in the way. If someone doesn't return a
1:14:43
phone call, a librarian changes her story.
1:14:47
Ben Bradley wants more sources in the packet, square one in the
1:14:50
right and really gets that across.
1:14:52
I think it is fair to say for a contemporary audience, a lot of
1:14:55
this will be absolutely bewildering.
1:14:57
You know, the amount of names and job titles that get thrown
1:15:00
out that would have meant a lot in 1975 don't mean an awful lot
1:15:04
now. I mean, everyone knows who Nixon
1:15:05
is, but who is Porter? Which one does hold him in?
1:15:08
Again, which, which guy was Sloan and who did she work for?
1:15:12
You know, have Wikipedia open while you're watching this just
1:15:15
to keep tabs on everyone. But again, who?
1:15:18
The. Fuck.
1:15:19
Exactly, Exactly. But I do kind of admire it at
1:15:23
the same time that Goldman or whoever's gone, no, this is the
1:15:26
standard. We're going to keep this like
1:15:28
not and we're not going to dumb it down for a fun Sia.
1:15:30
Whoever was responsible forward, eventually they did a really
1:15:33
good job. Yeah, Goldman said that he
1:15:35
wanted to stay true to the story.
1:15:37
He said he felt great pressure because of the scrutiny it would
1:15:40
come under from those in the know.
1:15:42
He said I was terrified because he knew that everybody who was
1:15:45
going to talk about this film had at one time or another being
1:15:48
in a newsroom, he said. And I knew that if we Hollywood
1:15:51
did it up, we would be in terrible trouble, he said.
1:15:54
Because everybody in the industry started out in in The
1:15:57
Newsroom, yeah. To keep the screenplay grounded,
1:16:00
Woodward was never too far away from drafts for the pen,
1:16:02
scrolling passages out, writing words like wrong and no, in the
1:16:05
margins, where Goldman taking a few flights of fancy, sort of,
1:16:09
Woodward was like, it was almost like Redford.
1:16:12
It was almost like, you know, the same kind of character just
1:16:15
having control of this. But again, you know, we're going
1:16:17
to argue this to a blue in the face, but it's based on truth.
1:16:20
Yeah. If you start manipulating truth,
1:16:22
it becomes a parody of itself. You know, the fact that that
1:16:25
Bernstein scene is actually even in the film, it's mesmerizing.
1:16:30
Goldman's trying to make something entertaining.
1:16:32
And how entertaining is the truth?
1:16:33
Exactly, exactly. That's why you don't get films
1:16:37
to this much level of true detail, because it needs to go
1:16:41
through the normal narrative beats.
1:16:42
It needs to be exciting. It needs to be this, that, and
1:16:44
the other thing. And this really isn't on the
1:16:47
surface, not on the. Edge it is, then again, neither
1:16:49
Zodiac really, or neither Spotlight.
1:16:52
You know, the films that were spoke about, that takes huge,
1:16:55
huge influence from this. Yeah.
1:16:57
It's how to make the truth exciting.
1:16:59
I mean, you can't like overlook the influence of Redford in this
1:17:02
across all aspects because he had purchased the rights to the
1:17:05
book for things about $450,000 and that was like, that wasn't
1:17:09
his money, that was Warner's money which they'd give him in
1:17:12
exchange for. He would make 2 films for them.
1:17:15
And then that's why he felt pressured to start because one
1:17:18
has wanted a big name in there, which is then why Hoffman came
1:17:21
into his joint lead. So it wasn't just Redford
1:17:23
leading it, but ironically Hoffman himself had wanted to
1:17:26
buy the rights to the book but then he found out Redford have
1:17:28
beaten them to it. Oh, really?
1:17:29
Yeah, I did not know that. That's amazing.
1:17:32
Yeah. I mean, well, because it was hot
1:17:34
news. I mean one of the biggest.
1:17:36
Yeah, the biggest. Moments in like modern American
1:17:39
history. Yeah, it wasn't 1,000,000 miles
1:17:41
away from when it actually hadn't.
1:17:43
We're talking a couple of years couple.
1:17:44
Of years, yeah, it was. It was so bang on the money.
1:17:46
You can see the both. Bang into it?
1:17:48
Or the both? Yeah, really.
1:17:49
Totally. Yeah, they love it, all the
1:17:51
material. I think we can all agree,
1:17:53
despite not knowing who, who wrote the screenplay.
1:17:56
It is a magnificent piece of writing.
1:17:58
It is. It really is.
1:18:02
Well, our second crew member is the Prince of Darkness himself.
1:18:05
Yes, Westies wet dream. It's cinematographer Gordon
1:18:09
Willis. Wet dream and Deep Throat I've
1:18:13
I've really done. Go for it it it's.
1:18:18
Just, I mean, oh God, I mean, what?
1:18:21
What do you say about Gordon Willis?
1:18:23
He's just my absolute Deakins as my hero, Gold Millis as my hero,
1:18:27
gone around Hall as me is one of the heroes.
1:18:29
It's just Gordon Willis is one of the first people to stand up.
1:18:32
And someone said that's too dark.
1:18:33
And he said, no, it's not. No, it's not.
1:18:37
And he had, he has this real demeanor about if you read
1:18:40
interviews, if you see him, he doesn't give a shit about anyone
1:18:44
else's opinion. And to me, that is so, so
1:18:47
important as an artist. But he's also incredibly
1:18:50
wonderful to work with. Everyone that you speak to who's
1:18:52
worked with him, he said he's so understanding.
1:18:54
He tries to make stuff work, but he's not a soft touch with it.
1:18:57
I mean, some of the films that he's done.
1:18:59
I mean, even even if you've done Godfather One, retire.
1:19:03
And then just. Godfather 2 and then goes oh,
1:19:06
OK, right. What what can I do before he
1:19:08
works with Woody Allen makes Manhattan, it makes Annie Hall
1:19:11
and he just go well, OK, and then does this and split diapers
1:19:15
makes split diapers look easy and makes you know lifting the
1:19:18
camera up to the top of 100 foot fucking library look a piece of
1:19:22
piss and he just and he has Deep Throat.
1:19:25
I know exactly how to shoot that then.
1:19:27
Okay, we're going to turn that into a cliche in 20 years time
1:19:30
because it's so fucking Immaculate.
1:19:32
There's not a shot in this film that doesn't work.
1:19:34
And Matt mentioned it before, but that final, final Dolly push
1:19:37
where they know and he comes out and does the 10 second countdown
1:19:41
and he runs all the way through the office.
1:19:42
Incredible. To the elevator.
1:19:44
The elevator has opened at that time on film, at that time under
1:19:49
fluorescent lights. And I can't even imagine how
1:19:54
good he is. He was just.
1:19:55
He was just fucking genius and it's such a like you said, look,
1:20:00
you can watch some of this with the sound off and you.
1:20:02
Know what's happening. You know what's happening, you
1:20:04
know? What's happening?
1:20:05
It's just so powerfully done. I would be, if this was made, I
1:20:09
would have been an absolute asshole to everybody.
1:20:13
Even if I just shot half of this, half of all the
1:20:16
President's Men, who the fuck are you?
1:20:17
That's what it would be like all the way.
1:20:20
But he wasn't like that. He was a humble man and a
1:20:22
wonderful man, and he did some incredible films enough.
1:20:25
I mean, he did this, right? He did the money pit.
1:20:27
Yeah, you. Go from Manny Hall, Godfather
1:20:31
123, All the President's Men, Parallax View Clues, The Money
1:20:35
Pit. All right, fine.
1:20:37
And it looks incredible and it's a wonderful film and it works.
1:20:40
And that's the kind of guy he was, and that's why I love him.
1:20:42
And his work here was wonderful. He's fantastic.
1:20:46
I've got no nothing more. I just fucking adore the guy.
1:20:48
I'll watch anything he's done over and over and over again.
1:20:51
And that, to me, is the ultimate ultimate, ultimate legacy.
1:20:55
Yeah, Great, Wonderful right match that, Matt.
1:20:59
No, I'm not coming to you, Matt. Just I'll see what I've got
1:21:06
written down, just for what it's worth.
1:21:08
That's right. And I'll remove it in the edit,
1:21:12
probably whenever. Half of what I've said.
1:21:16
But the split diopter is just off the chain.
1:21:19
It's in every scene. It's probably the best I've seen
1:21:21
in any film. It's.
1:21:22
Horizontal as well. There's a bit when he's typing
1:21:24
out. They go four more years.
1:21:25
Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no.
1:21:27
One ever been a horizontal split diopter before and he's just
1:21:30
taken the piss and no one knows about this?
1:21:33
Why don't people care more about this?
1:21:35
Yeah, I know, I know. I love that passion.
1:21:38
I love that passion. God, there is a great moment of
1:21:42
its use when Wood would first cause Deep Throat in the phone
1:21:45
booth, and he uses kind of the frame of the phone booth.
1:21:47
There's a break between the two lenses.
1:21:49
Genius. Great break.
1:21:50
Yeah, amazing. Tell us of the of The Newsroom
1:21:53
as well. Uses them really well.
1:21:54
Yeah, I mean, we talked about light and dark, classic visual
1:21:57
storytelling stuff, but it's so striking in this film.
1:22:00
And there's a shot here also when Woodward gets out of the
1:22:03
taxi, when he's making his way down to the stairwell to see
1:22:06
Deep Throat for the first time. Possibly my favorite shot in the
1:22:09
film. It just looks so bleak and an
1:22:11
inviting and he's miniscule in comparison.
1:22:14
It's just, and it's just a static, static shot.
1:22:18
It's just mind boggling. Just the composition of it is
1:22:20
just so great. Beautiful.
1:22:22
Willis said that he was obsessed with delivering information on
1:22:25
each cut in the film. And keep that in mind the next
1:22:28
time you watch it and you'll see what he means.
1:22:30
It's really, really striking the cuts.
1:22:32
Matt, do you have anything that you want to say?
1:22:36
I do, but we'll see if it makes it or not.
1:22:38
It's, you know, it's probably just not that interesting.
1:22:40
Sorry. I mean, I'm obviously not going
1:22:43
to bother mentioning the money pit again.
1:22:44
That was going to be first point I.
1:22:45
Was going to be your opening Gambit show opening?
1:22:47
Gamble. That's funny.
1:22:51
Grateful I. Don't remember it looking great
1:22:55
though it. Really does.
1:22:57
Willis on this. I just think it's a hell of a
1:22:59
thing to say to someone like him.
1:23:01
Your color palette for this film is going to be mainly beige,
1:23:04
brown and off white. And yeah, fine.
1:23:07
That's absolutely fine. Dick Eddie comes out with just
1:23:10
this incredible use of deep focus, the way the office just
1:23:12
stretches off into the background, packed full of
1:23:14
extras. It's this subliminal.
1:23:17
We almost making it a quite dry story, visually exciting and I
1:23:21
think because it's so restrained for the most part, when he does
1:23:25
get the opportunity, he can just put in some really striking
1:23:27
visual moments. Like, one of my favourites is
1:23:30
when Woodward comes out of his house at night and everything's
1:23:33
really in shadow and he starts running down the street towards
1:23:36
the end and he's, but he's running towards the light.
1:23:39
And obviously that sounds very on the nose when you say it out
1:23:42
loud. Oh, he's he's running towards
1:23:44
the light, towards, you know, the the information I need.
1:23:47
But the way Willis renders it, it's anything but.
1:23:49
Yeah, you know, can only agree with everything you have said.
1:23:51
It's it's just outstanding work. Yeah, absolutely.
1:23:54
I mean his work here, it should be taught in film school,
1:23:57
telling the story through short choices alone.
1:24:00
And like I've said, him and Pakula working together, there's
1:24:03
magic captured on screen that I just have rarely seen.
1:24:06
So outstanding work all around from the crew.
1:24:08
David Shire's music can't go unspoken, nor can Robert Wolf's
1:24:12
editing. But in Goldman and Willis,
1:24:14
you've got 2 Masters in their field at the top of their game.
1:24:17
Yes. The end.
1:24:25
Into the final act of the film, new characters are introduced to
1:24:28
Muddy in the Waters for Woodward and Bernstein.
1:24:30
We're starting this section with the introduction of Donald
1:24:33
Sigretti and ending it with Woodward's second meeting with
1:24:36
Deep Throat. Matt, would you like to go
1:24:39
first? Yes, I would, because up until
1:24:42
this point, evidence has been so stop, start for them.
1:24:44
You know, they get names, but the names won't talk.
1:24:47
The indictment for the original burglars, It's going to be
1:24:50
sealed until after the election, which renders the investigation
1:24:53
useless. They get John Mitchell on the
1:24:54
phone, but he tells him he's going to put Katie Graham's tit
1:24:56
in the ringer over. This outrageous language.
1:25:01
Remove the word tit. It's a family newspaper.
1:25:05
That's a great line. But that's the thing it this is
1:25:08
when you feel Ben Bradley is finally on their side and he's
1:25:11
frustrated because he knows something's there and whatever
1:25:14
it is, it's big and he just needs someone to go on the
1:25:16
record. And you get that great scene,
1:25:18
rest of the three of them at the office at night.
1:25:20
And he's asking no kind of trust.
1:25:22
Deep Throat. And then he tells him about that
1:25:24
time he ran the story about Hoover get moved on from the
1:25:27
FBI. But he was fed a full story.
1:25:29
So they rang him up to said call Brian Bradley and tell him fuck
1:25:32
you, you know, Yeah, just great. He does like bridges the
1:25:35
distance between them. So yeah, I've been where you
1:25:38
guys are. So now difficult it is.
1:25:39
We've got me back in A and it's great.
1:25:41
And that's important because then they get this new name
1:25:43
Sigretti, somebody who they find out he's been going across the
1:25:46
country, which opens up the investigation, even if it's no
1:25:49
longer just a Washington story. It's everywhere.
1:25:52
You know, the FBI know the sky, it's nationwide.
1:25:55
And that image, you get a wood wooden burn scene cross legged
1:25:57
on the floor, all the evidence of like Sigridis movement spread
1:26:01
out. So it's like a literal map of
1:26:02
the case. It's like a literal map of
1:26:04
what's going on in their head. It's like what W he's saying
1:26:06
about the deep thought meetings. It feels like a cliche now, that
1:26:09
type of thing. But this is the film that
1:26:11
invented that cliche, so you've got.
1:26:13
Absolutely. Well, I'm going to touch on the
1:26:15
meeting between Bernstein and Sigretti.
1:26:17
When Bernstein gets there, he says that I've been sent by my
1:26:20
paper to try and persuade you to go on the record.
1:26:21
And when he says that, he starts to laugh like he must have said
1:26:24
this to everyone he's spoken to and been rejected at every turn.
1:26:28
So much so now that it's become funny, he's kind of like at the
1:26:30
point of delirium. You're not going to do it, I
1:26:33
know. And not to labour the point, but
1:26:35
the theme of light and darkness continued here so greatly is
1:26:38
framed in the dark when he's reluctant to talk, and in the
1:26:40
light when Bernstein manages to kind of get him to open up.
1:26:43
Yeah. And again, this is Bernstein
1:26:45
using his journalistic instincts to get what he wants because he
1:26:48
kind of befriends Sigretti here. He's almost complimenting them
1:26:52
about his political endeavors. Yeah.
1:26:54
And I think Sigretti is flattered by it, which is why he
1:26:57
opens up. And that's when he's framed in
1:26:59
the light. Yeah.
1:27:00
Inside. That's the cut that Yeah, the
1:27:01
charismatic nature of that character.
1:27:04
That's what I was talking about. What half?
1:27:05
Absolutely. Really charismatic.
1:27:07
Yeah, he kind of opens them up and which is why he blabs about
1:27:11
the rat fucking. Yeah.
1:27:13
Great. What about you, Westie?
1:27:15
Me, I'm going to go for the second meeting with Deep Throat
1:27:18
and how it differs to the first in that it's there's a lot more
1:27:21
weight to this. It's a lot heavier.
1:27:23
It seems a little bit darker. It seems a little bit more loose
1:27:27
in the way that the framed the seem a little bit wider in the
1:27:29
frame. There's a lot you can look
1:27:31
around them and see what's going on.
1:27:33
And I know you mentioned before that, you know, it doesn't have
1:27:35
the classic action beats. This is as close as we get to a
1:27:38
car chase sense again, of orange and teal.
1:27:44
It really works. And then he's like, did you
1:27:45
change cabs? Is he starting to doubt?
1:27:48
What would bring into it? Is he starting to doubt?
1:27:49
You know, should I be talking to him?
1:27:50
Should be doing this is the right thing?
1:27:52
And again, you know, you can just see this real tension and
1:27:55
the paranoia starts to build. And I don't really think it's
1:27:58
necessarily the meeting between the two.
1:28:00
I think it's the way that Woodward leaves this meeting and
1:28:03
the paranoia and the way that that is shot and the way that
1:28:06
that's that's built. You are just with him every step
1:28:09
of the way. It's a screeching car.
1:28:11
He turns around, look at it, and Detroit, it's gone.
1:28:13
Like fucking Batman, he's gone. He's out here.
1:28:17
He knows exactly where he needs to go and what he needs to do.
1:28:19
And there's that incredible scene where you just have them
1:28:22
running. You just start to run down the
1:28:23
street and he turns and this is the closest you're going to get
1:28:26
to a horror beat ever from Pecula.
1:28:28
And he does not push in. Yeah, as.
1:28:31
He turns right and then there's nothing.
1:28:33
You just think, I'm on edge. I need this to be over.
1:28:36
I want this to be finished. Give us some information.
1:28:39
For fuck's sake. How the how on earth do I keep
1:28:41
going? How on earth do I keep going as
1:28:43
a viewer through this? And then you think, how on earth
1:28:45
did rubber keep going? How on earth did birthing keep
1:28:47
going? And it really is almost like a
1:28:49
full stop, but you don't want to stop almost at the end of the
1:28:52
chapter. And you're like, OK, let's start
1:28:54
again. Here we go.
1:28:55
And it really questions your ability to connect with the
1:28:58
film. It really pushes you as a
1:29:00
viewer. Now it's a paranoid mess and
1:29:04
we'll have to keep going. Yeah.
1:29:06
I mean that, yeah, that push in, yeah.
1:29:09
That's just that turn turns into it as it pushes.
1:29:12
It's like, well, it's just when when is he used that in the
1:29:15
whole film? Never, never ever used like a
1:29:18
push in like that. So I've.
1:29:19
Killed her, isn't it? It's.
1:29:20
So I've killed her. But he knows what he's
1:29:21
different. He said what he's going to do.
1:29:22
Like almost like a crash soon here.
1:29:24
It's like Tarantino's ripped that off left, right and centre,
1:29:27
but he used it here to, like I said, to aid the story.
1:29:31
Everything is done to aid the story and to push the viewer
1:29:34
further and further away from the their comfort zone, which is
1:29:37
what makes it an incredible film.
1:29:39
I mean, amazing. Yeah.
1:29:43
By the time we get to the end of the film, Woodward's paranoia is
1:29:46
as obvious as Bernstein's desperation.
1:29:48
Yeah, Sloan denies to the news that he implicated Haldeman, and
1:29:52
Bed Bradley is pretty pissed about that.
1:29:55
Deepest. That's great.
1:30:00
No matter how many times we mentioned it, it's still fucking
1:30:03
great. Yeah.
1:30:04
We're focusing our attention on the film's final stretch,
1:30:06
starting with the 3rd and final meeting with Deep Throat and
1:30:09
ending with Nixon being sworn in for four more years.
1:30:13
All right. Third meeting with Deep Throat.
1:30:15
You mentioned that shot to Redford.
1:30:17
That looks. That's like a horror shot.
1:30:19
Yeah, horror beat. I think this is very similar,
1:30:22
this scene. Yeah, it's one of the most
1:30:24
iconic scenes in the film, probably the most, and it's
1:30:27
terrifying. I think the framed on opposite
1:30:28
sides as well on this one. Yes, they are always one to the
1:30:32
other. And then this is about the
1:30:33
Redford that takes the role where he has more information
1:30:36
and throws the audience of its genius.
1:30:38
It's it's like a horror movie scene.
1:30:40
I think it's this spine tingle and dialogue delivered with like
1:30:43
the deathly caress by Holbrook. And he says, nice.
1:30:47
The list is, he says. Thanks.
1:30:51
I was into that. That was lovely.
1:30:53
Deathly Caress. He says that the list is longer
1:30:57
than anyone can imagine. It's incredible.
1:31:00
It leads everywhere. Get out your notebook.
1:31:02
There's more. Your lives are in danger.
1:31:05
Shit, what's this? I expect them to cut when he
1:31:09
says get out your notebook. There's more and I expect it
1:31:11
just to be like cut there. Yeah.
1:31:14
The fact is that we just don't know what's going on.
1:31:17
Whereas in the dark as Woodward and Bernstein, we think they're
1:31:20
there and then the road gets pulled out from under us.
1:31:22
We think then that happens throughout the film.
1:31:25
But we know because of the way that the film is shot, because
1:31:28
of the music, we know it's life and death stuff.
1:31:32
Dirty tricks are all over town. It's probably the biggest
1:31:34
political story in history, and Woodward and Bernstein are right
1:31:38
at the center of it. That is horror movie stuff.
1:31:41
Yeah. Yeah.
1:31:42
Incredible Thing, and Redford's struck reaction when Holbrook is
1:31:45
seeing these things to him and his delivery, they're just
1:31:49
second to none. That scene is it's magnificent
1:31:52
and it's a minute. Yeah, it is.
1:31:54
If that's yeah. It's incredible.
1:31:57
What about you, Wesley? I'm going to go for when, you
1:31:59
know, our lives are in danger. Yes.
1:32:01
And he gets to the and he has to go back and he has to tell
1:32:05
Bernstein about it. But how do you tell him about
1:32:07
it? Oh, you just play Rachmaninoff's
1:32:10
Piano Concerto #3 as loud as you possibly can.
1:32:15
Just because when I'm like, the sound design all over this
1:32:17
through this film just triggers my anxiety so much.
1:32:20
And it's like, oh, that's what I need Rachmaninoff right about
1:32:23
now. OK, cheers.
1:32:25
And it's, and you're reading it, and it's just one after the
1:32:29
other. And it's the reactions from both
1:32:31
of them. I think they just know that
1:32:33
they've found something, you know, that they've got
1:32:35
somewhere. And with that choice of music,
1:32:37
it doesn't seem like it's foreboding.
1:32:39
It doesn't seem like it's a diamond thing.
1:32:41
It seems like almost like a celebration.
1:32:43
It seems very Kubrick to me. It seems very like barring, it's
1:32:47
like that could be the final track of the whole film.
1:32:50
The credits could roll on that. Music.
1:32:52
Yeah, you. Know what I mean?
1:32:54
It's real. Kind of like celebrations.
1:32:56
Orchestral celebration of We found something our lives are in
1:32:59
danger. Isn't that amazing?
1:33:01
Because we're obviously. Found that we obviously go on
1:33:03
the right way. Yeah.
1:33:04
And it's to me that's it's a counterbalance.
1:33:07
And that's why I really love this scene.
1:33:08
And it's it's got that, you know, it's probably one of the
1:33:11
first ever iterations of sending a WhatsApp message to somebody
1:33:17
ever. It's just like, listen to this
1:33:19
and you're reading it and you're like, oh, Jesus Christ.
1:33:21
Right. OK, yeah, OK.
1:33:22
Our lives are in danger and this and this, this and it paints
1:33:24
that picture. But I just think it's it's
1:33:26
wonderfully done. And the way Redford comes in,
1:33:28
then he's just like, you know, bam, bam, bam.
1:33:31
And Bernstein's like, oh, please.
1:33:33
And the, the the board at this point thoroughly understand each
1:33:36
other. They are now the absolute team.
1:33:38
They're completely In Sync. You know for a fact that
1:33:40
Bernstein's not going to say a word when he turns that music
1:33:43
on. He's just wants to read what he
1:33:45
types, and that's genius because us as an audience want to read
1:33:49
what he types. What does he know?
1:33:51
He's got his notebook out and he doesn't read his notebook.
1:33:53
That's how important this information is.
1:33:55
It's all in his head and he knows it because he knows it's
1:33:58
now fact and they've now got it in what the scene is.
1:34:02
Yeah, incredible stuff. What about you, Matt?
1:34:05
Bringing it home. I'm bringing it home because
1:34:07
like one word reviews lot is this film is rigorous and it's
1:34:11
on the details of the drop saw. When you do get these moments of
1:34:14
like kind of light and levity or or humanity, one of the better
1:34:18
word break and through would really resonate.
1:34:20
So the story has gone back and forth and back and forth and
1:34:23
they've run ahead and it's been denied in the editorial team.
1:34:25
Don't know what to do next. So when Bradley Discourse
1:34:28
fucker, let's stand by the boys. Yes.
1:34:32
Come on, come on. Ben's on the side now, going to
1:34:35
be OK. And famously, this came out, you
1:34:38
know, the same as Rocky and Bradley speech, them at the end
1:34:41
when they stood outside his house in the middle of the
1:34:42
night. And they've got the confirmation
1:34:44
that speech is as inspirational as anything you get in any Rocky
1:34:47
film where he says, you know, nothing's right on this except
1:34:51
the 1st Amendment of the Constitution, freedom of the
1:34:53
press. It may be the future of the
1:34:55
country. Not that any of that matters.
1:34:57
But if you guys fuck up again, I'm going to get mad.
1:35:00
And then he just sends them off to do it.
1:35:02
It's amazing. And you know, as you said, David
1:35:05
Fincher loves this film and the way that Woodward and Bernstein
1:35:07
go off and in the night with that music.
1:35:09
That is absolutely the last scene in Zodiac between Children
1:35:13
Hall in the diner when John Hall leaves it all out and Reflow
1:35:16
just walks away with the information that isn't
1:35:18
absolutely taken from this. Yeah.
1:35:21
And then it descends on it is it's one of my favourite endings
1:35:24
of all time because again, it's just this master class and
1:35:26
visual storytelling. Another spit diopter, wooden
1:35:30
burns seen working away and the story in the background, while
1:35:32
in the foreground Nixon is getting sworn in on television,
1:35:35
but completely obvious to what's going on, which is that
1:35:38
literally and metaphorically in the background, the working on
1:35:42
the story that's going to bring him down.
1:35:44
Brilliant. And to leave it like that with
1:35:46
no dialogue with the gunshots on the inauguration taken on a
1:35:50
different significance that's supposed to be there to
1:35:52
celebrate always surrounding the president, nor the some more
1:35:55
like 1 and shots over the bar what's coming for him.
1:35:57
With the typewriter as well. As well to wrap it up like this,
1:36:02
despite the fact the rest of the story doesn't get told like this
1:36:06
is kind of half of what actually happened.
1:36:08
It shouldn't feel as satisfying as it does, but it's perfect.
1:36:12
I think you're just exhausted by this point and you want that one
1:36:16
and you have that tell us problem that it's like it's like
1:36:18
a machine gun going off as if they're gone and everybody down
1:36:23
who's guilty. It's like a firing squad.
1:36:26
And it's it's a firing squad of information.
1:36:28
Information kills. And when that final, final
1:36:31
notice hammered on on that typewriter, bang, nick and boom.
1:36:35
And then it's silent. Yeah, God.
1:36:39
Yeah, God, it's silent. Yeah.
1:36:43
Wonderful. So ending with relative quiet,
1:36:45
our boys have finally got to the bottom of the story.
1:36:48
But it's just the beginning, yeah.
1:36:52
Reception and awards. All the President's Men was
1:36:57
rated PG upon release, unusual for a film with a plethora of F
1:37:01
bombs. It would automatically be rated
1:37:04
in R now, but the MPA have made some strange decisions in the
1:37:08
70s. I mean Toby who tried to get PG
1:37:10
for. Texas, for example.
1:37:13
So. You don't need anything dude.
1:37:15
They can. Obviously be gotten to whatever.
1:37:16
Toby. At an advanced screening of the
1:37:20
film, Goldman and Pakula were very nervous because it was met
1:37:24
with scattered booze. When the titles kicked in, some
1:37:26
people walked out whispering smear job.
1:37:29
And then there was silence, and Goldman and Peculiar thought
1:37:33
they were going to get beaten up.
1:37:35
But the silence broke out into mild laughter when the torn
1:37:37
lightened in the film slightly. Goldman said silence had meant
1:37:41
immersion. And from then we knew we had
1:37:43
them. Yeah.
1:37:44
Amazing. Yeah.
1:37:45
And that was at gold when it received its general release in
1:37:48
April 76. Widespread acclaim was given to
1:37:50
the film, Variety said. Ingenious direction and
1:37:53
scripting that overcame the difficult lack of drama that a
1:37:56
story about reporters running down a story might otherwise
1:37:59
have. Gene Cecil gave it four out of
1:38:01
four, the headline of his review said.
1:38:03
Excitement from pillar to post, and he included it on his Best
1:38:07
Films of 1976 list. And the main man, the man
1:38:10
himself, Roger Ebert. What do you think 3?
1:38:15
I think he recalled before. Split the difference, He gave it
1:38:18
3 1/2 out of four. He said it succeeds brilliantly
1:38:22
in suggesting the mixture of exhilaration, paranoia, self
1:38:25
doubt encourage that permeated the Washington Post as its two
1:38:28
young reporters went after the presidency.
1:38:30
A negative review from New West magazine said that the film
1:38:33
missed the opportunity to explain the implications of the
1:38:36
Watergate scandal and the pathology that drove the
1:38:39
conspirators. But of course the the intention
1:38:42
of all involved was not to make a film about those things.
1:38:44
Well, I mean, that's an entirely different film from a.
1:38:47
Different point from a different point of view.
1:38:49
Exactly, exactly what you're talking about.
1:38:53
And now All the President's Men has a big time 94% on run
1:38:57
tomatoes and an IMDb score of 7.9 out of 10 less than Sin
1:39:02
City, which is baffling. Well, I mean, you're kind of OK
1:39:05
for you. It was a big hit with audiences,
1:39:11
too. Amazingly, it earned almost 9
1:39:13
times its budget, $70.6 million from a budget of 8.5
1:39:18
domestically. Considering the relatively
1:39:20
elevated subject matter, pretty incredible stuff.
1:39:23
Yeah, ridiculously good. Sponsors, probably.
1:39:25
People won't know what had happened though.
1:39:28
Because it was at the time. Because it was.
1:39:29
On the time you know and. The knew that Redford knew that
1:39:32
he knew it was hot. It's a hot.
1:39:33
Yeah, really hot it. Is like like if we'd waited 10
1:39:36
years, I don't think it would be anything.
1:39:38
No. Imagine this coming out now.
1:39:40
Yeah, exactly. You'd like.
1:39:41
Don't give a shit. Shit, man, yeah.
1:39:44
And to complete the hat trick, All the President's Men got its
1:39:46
fair share of exposure during award season.
1:39:49
It was nominated for 9 Baftas and four Golden Globes.
1:39:51
It didn't win, but was more successful at the Oscars.
1:39:54
It was nominated in eight categories.
1:39:56
It won four Wards, best support and active for Jason Robards
1:39:59
best screenplay, best art direction, best sound.
1:40:03
I mean, I think that's fair enough.
1:40:05
That's very fair and. Definitely.
1:40:06
Especially robots. Yeah, definitely.
1:40:09
Especially the art design as well.
1:40:11
And the sound, yeah. And the sound, yeah.
1:40:13
And the screenplay, So awful, yeah.
1:40:17
That's the worst point we've ever made.
1:40:19
Like, particularly that one. Actually all of them.
1:40:21
Actually all of them. Yeah.
1:40:23
Actually, the art design we. Agreed.
1:40:25
We agreed with the point and then individualized the points
1:40:28
and then came back to doing it as a group again.
1:40:31
Absolutely. Do you know what I really loved
1:40:33
about this? The art sign and the sound and
1:40:34
the yeah, yeah, yeah. It all works.
1:40:38
They did have some stiff competition in the major
1:40:40
categories. Rocky, Taxi Driver Network.
1:40:43
All were released in 76. Yeah.
1:40:46
Big yeah. Big yeah.
1:40:47
So success on all fronts for All the President's Men, whose
1:40:49
influence can still be felt today, with the likes of Best
1:40:52
Picture winner Spotlight from 2015 taking direct influence
1:40:55
from the film. Definitely all the right movies
1:41:00
ranking. Now all the votes have been
1:41:04
cast, we're about to reveal if All the President's Men has been
1:41:07
elected the winner. It is of course the older 8
1:41:10
movies ranking, the world famous all around movies ranking.
1:41:13
World famous. No dirty tricks here, no?
1:41:15
No. No, our scores for the film.
1:41:17
First of all, Westie, over to you.
1:41:20
May 1st. Harsh.
1:41:21
Yeah, you first. Might not.
1:41:22
But I don't know, because I'm an idiot.
1:41:25
No, look, I mean, I did struggle with this film when I thought
1:41:29
I'm going to have to talk about it because it's very, it was a
1:41:31
very daunting thing to understand it, to get it across
1:41:35
to people, for people to listen to a podcast on it and for us to
1:41:39
say, oh, for me to say personally, I understand it from
1:41:41
start to finish. And I don't.
1:41:43
There's still some characters and they, I don't know, of
1:41:45
course, fuck they are. There's still some plot left and
1:41:48
right that I don't quite know why.
1:41:50
At the same time, I don't really think that's very important.
1:41:53
I think it's it's more important that people stuck with the guns
1:41:56
and made a film that doesn't fall back on that.
1:41:59
And I don't think many films are made like this anymore where
1:42:02
people just go, this is the truth, this is what happened.
1:42:05
If you don't like it, don't watch it.
1:42:08
If you're not into it, doesn't matter.
1:42:09
But even from that point of view, it makes it so engaging
1:42:12
and so much of A film that you want to dive into and know
1:42:15
about. Even now, I want to know more
1:42:17
about it. Even now, I want to be more
1:42:19
involved in it, even though I've seen it so many times for this,
1:42:23
it is a perfect film. It is perfectly shot, it's
1:42:25
perfectly acted, it's perfectly written.
1:42:27
The music is there where it needs to be.
1:42:29
The sound design is incredible. Just because I don't get it on
1:42:32
every single conceivable level doesn't make me a moron.
1:42:35
It doesn't make it a bad film. It makes it a perfect film
1:42:37
because that's what art is, that's what cinema is, and it
1:42:40
should challenge it and it should question it and should
1:42:42
push it and you should work harder to understand things.
1:42:44
And for that reason, it's an absolute 10.
1:42:47
Yeah, very nice. Unexpected.
1:42:52
Excellent that Westy. Has to be.
1:42:54
I'm going to go a second because I don't think it's going to be
1:42:56
any surprise at all I came to do in this film and it was quite
1:42:59
daunting because it's a really complex story and I felt as
1:43:03
though I needed to know everything about Watergate to be
1:43:07
able to speak confidently and do podcast on this film.
1:43:11
So I watched that stupid Watergate documentary.
1:43:14
I didn't that's on for like 10 hours.
1:43:16
I didn't do anything about it. I just sat and panicked.
1:43:19
I didn't sleep for a week, just kept watching the film, worried
1:43:23
about I didn't understand. This film's a revelation every
1:43:26
time I watch it. It's subject matter is something
1:43:29
that really interests me, but that's never going to guarantee
1:43:32
a good film. What elevates it to elite level
1:43:34
movie state? This is all part of the creative
1:43:36
process for an all cylinders performances, music, direction,
1:43:40
editing, cinematography, writing of course made all the more
1:43:43
remarkable considering the lack of traditional movie beats.
1:43:46
Like I said, it would never get made now, which is a sad state
1:43:50
of affairs for me. Like, from a visual point of
1:43:53
view, this is as impressive as any any film that I've seen.
1:43:57
Yeah. Yeah.
1:43:58
If all movies were like this it would be a perfect world.
1:44:01
It's the one of the easiest 10 out of 10s I've ever given.
1:44:04
Lovely. Wonderful.
1:44:05
Yes, Matt, Final one. It's a film I find so enjoyable.
1:44:10
Like I said, the top it's about a topic I'm really interested
1:44:12
in, and it's told through a particular narrative of crusade
1:44:15
and journalism, which at its best, I'm a complete soccer for.
1:44:18
And yet it's where you said Luke.
1:44:20
It's still best in class. It's still the best example of
1:44:22
this genre. The adherence to realism and
1:44:26
truth from everyone. No one is trying to make it
1:44:29
about them. Peculiar isn't trying to show
1:44:31
off what he can do as a director.
1:44:33
Redford and Hoffman, they're not trying to show off what they can
1:44:36
do as actors. They're just all on the same
1:44:38
page in The ironic thing is because they're not making it
1:44:41
about them. The turn in some of their best
1:44:43
work. Exactly just.
1:44:46
Focus on what this story is and what it should be.
1:44:49
And, yeah, you can see, you know, if someone comes near to
1:44:51
this, that would be absolutely lost, you know, Pardo, Mcgruder,
1:44:53
Sagretti, Haldeman. Who?
1:44:55
I thought this was about Nixon. Where's he in this one's Eagle?
1:44:59
But that's probably the thing I love about.
1:45:00
I love just the unrelenting, unstinting intelligence behind
1:45:04
it. The, the refusal to Dome
1:45:05
anything down. Go.
1:45:06
No, the story needed to be told then.
1:45:08
But it's told so well that even if some of the details are a bit
1:45:11
fuzzy to a contemporary audience, it's still just such
1:45:14
an engrossing form. So yeah, it is absolutely A10
1:45:17
for me as well. Full marks, lovely.
1:45:19
Full marks from from the three of us.
1:45:21
And we've got our 4th score for all the presidents, man.
1:45:24
That's coming from our expand and Twitter followers.
1:45:27
Yeah, yes, I have the score. But first, I've picked out some
1:45:31
choice comments, OK. OK.
1:45:32
Sue Taylor at and if I've got this pronunciation wrong then
1:45:36
forgive me. Sue Nifafia at Nifafia, she
1:45:40
said. When you know what happens but
1:45:43
are still on the edge of your seat.
1:45:44
Brilliant, Phil. That's it.
1:45:46
Yeah, I wish our name had been less and our name should have
1:45:50
been as uncomplicated as a comment.
1:45:55
True that, Silver Fang 2021 official at Silver Fang 2021
1:46:01
said could only vote 10 on this because there weren't any higher
1:46:04
options. Absolute genius piece of
1:46:06
filmmaking that is withstood the test of time, and there were a
1:46:09
lot of various positive comments.
1:46:12
One person said if whoever's voted 7 doesn't understand the
1:46:16
film, which opened up quite a dialogue, but it wasn't without
1:46:19
its detractors either. Again, pronunciation.
1:46:23
Charon kiko at Charon kiko. One said three.
1:46:27
Tried watching it. Could never finish it because I
1:46:29
kept falling asleep. Boring.
1:46:31
That's not the film's fault, that's yours.
1:46:35
So get some more Kip, Watch it again, enjoy yourself.
1:46:38
Sure. Yeah, have some coffee like
1:46:40
Bernstein. Fantastic.
1:46:43
Fantastic. I'm coming home.
1:46:46
And finally, James McSweeney at James under score.
1:46:49
McSweeney said controversially. Two, it was all based on lies.
1:46:55
Oh, right, sweetie, right. Well, I'm sure he's diligently
1:46:59
researched that from appropriate sources and double checked
1:47:03
evident to brand badly satisfaction.
1:47:06
So gathering all of the scores together and getting an average,
1:47:09
what do you think of All the President's Men?
1:47:10
What do you think it got on Twitter, fellas?
1:47:12
8.5 to do .5 on Twitter. 8 We do we do.
1:47:16
I'd say .5. You can't vote .5 but when we
1:47:20
average we. Do take 2.5.
1:47:21
Yeah, I'd say 8.5. I'll go to Smitch High and say
1:47:24
9. Oh, you're both wrong.
1:47:27
It's got a very high 9.5. 9.510 OK, that's good.
1:47:31
Just missing the top spot. Good.
1:47:33
Damn shame. It was just damn comments that
1:47:35
you chose. Kind of threw us off a little
1:47:36
bit. So we give it a three and a two
1:47:38
and I'm like what the fuck? Well, I just think naturally
1:47:41
it's going to be 10 all day long, so I thought I'd throw in
1:47:43
some negative comments just to kind of balance it out.
1:47:46
Yeah. So with ours and the Twitter
1:47:48
score combined, that leaves All the President's Men with a
1:47:50
hugely impressive 39.5 out of 40.
1:47:55
You can go to alltherightmovies.com/leaderboard
1:47:58
to see where All the President's Men matches up against all the
1:48:00
other films that we've covered on our classic podcast.
1:48:04
As mentioned at the top, you can sign up to be an ATRM Patreon
1:48:07
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1:48:10
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1:48:12
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1:48:15
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1:48:27
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1:48:29
Loads of great chat on there. We're in there as well, believe
1:48:33
if that would make things more appealing to you.
1:48:34
Of course, yeah, you don't need us banging on about shit we've
1:48:37
already banged on about. Just listen to that for two.
1:48:41
I know how we're picking off. Join us again on All the Right
1:48:45
Movies when John Martin Westie will be talking about a huge,
1:48:49
huge film. Possibly the greatest ever
1:48:51
sequel made. It's The Godfather Part 2.
1:48:54
Jesus. Excited for that one fellas.
1:48:56
I'm stressed already. I'm stressed already.
1:48:58
Two big films we'll see. Big it up Westie, big it up.
1:49:05
This is advertising for the next podcaster.
1:49:08
Godfather Part 2 is possibly one of my favorite films of all
1:49:11
time, and I don't even know where I'm going to start with
1:49:14
it. I really don't know where I'm
1:49:15
going to start with. I'm not going to spoil it ten
1:49:17
I'm not going to spoil the however, I'm just looking
1:49:20
forward. I'm looking forward to breaking
1:49:21
it down. I'm looking forward to the
1:49:23
analysis and I'm really, really, really looking forward what the
1:49:26
other boys think of it. I'm especially looking forward
1:49:27
what John thinks of it and as you as well, Matt, it's going to
1:49:31
be a good one secondary. Just a year can't wait would do.
1:49:41
Yeah, absolutely. Can't wait.
1:49:42
A huge, huge film. So I'm looking forward to
1:49:44
getting into. That a huge film requires a huge
1:49:46
podcast from three great guys, and that's what you'll get in
1:49:49
two weeks for sure. Absolutely.
1:49:51
We'll travel best as always, yeah.
1:49:53
We won't break your heart. Oh nice.
1:49:56
And lovely, our most recent Patreon exclusive podcast is on
1:50:00
from Dustal Dawn and Sin City. Yeah, two of the best from
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1:50:06
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1:50:08
He recorded that and had plenty of.
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Fun. It was loads of fun.
1:50:11
If you want to listen to us be about fucking 98% less stress
1:50:15
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1:50:19
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1:50:22
If you missed it, we released a new episode of A Life in Movies,
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our movie interview show, last week.
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I spoke to Greg Sestero, star of notorious cult classic The Room,
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1:50:35
I spoke to him about his favorite films.
1:50:37
He is a wonderful. Man, he's a lovely guy.
1:50:39
Lovely guy, came across really well.
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1:50:42
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straightforward. I would love to do that.
1:51:35
And our website, the ATRM hub with loads of great articles is
1:51:39
all the right. movies.com, yes, a lot of stuff coming right at
1:51:43
you there. Very nice.
1:51:46
And that is a wrap, fellas. A good, solid piece of American
1:51:48
journalism there, I think. Don't think so.
1:51:51
Now get home and get some rest and be back in 15 minutes.
1:51:53
Go for the two next. Go for the two next.
1:51:55
Sorry, I'll be here. Thanks for listening everyone.
1:51:57
Thank you everyone. Bye.
1:52:19
What's Jane?