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Jeffrey Epstein And The Vanity Fair Puff Piece · The Epstein Chronicles

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to keep the monologue short. This article
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: deals with Vicki Ward, the 2003 Vanity Fair article that
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: basically was a puff piece about Jeffrey Epstein and what
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: has happened since then. So let's just jump right into
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: this article this morning and get cracking. Like I said,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: this article is from The New Yorker. And the author
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: of this article is Isaac Chotner. Headline. Why didn't Vanity
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Fair break the Jeffrey Epstein story? It's a good question,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: isn't it? And they had everything they needed. They had
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: the information that was given to them by the Farmer Sisters.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: But no, they didn't break the story. Nope. Instead, what
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: did they do? They quashed it. Let's stash that. So, 2003, right? Now,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: imagine if Vanity Fair would have done the right thing
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: and exposed Jeffrey Epstein. Could have went a long way
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: to stopping him, huh? I mean, look at what Julie K.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Brown's reporting did, right? Blew the doors open, opened the
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: lid back up. So you mean to tell me that
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Vicki Ward and Graydon Carter couldn't have stopped Jeffrey Epstein, maybe,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: if they would have done the right thing instead of
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: hiding the truth? Ghislaine Maxwell is arguably the most hated
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: woman in the world, and I knew her. So begins
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Vicki Ward's podcast, Chasing Ghislaine, which launched on Audible this
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: past summer. As Maxwell prepared to stand trial in New
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: York City on sex trafficking charges. Personally, I haven't listened
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: to her podcast. I really have no desire to delve
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: deep into what Vicki Ward has to say. Again, I
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: really don't find her to be a reliable narrator when
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: it comes to this story. She's too close, right? Too
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: close to the Glenn Maxwells of the world. Too close
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: to the socialites of the world. Ward, a British-born journalist
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: who is also hosting and co-producing a Discovery Plus documentary
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: about Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein, describes her experiences covering the
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: pair for almost two decades. And again, another one of
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: these people that was super close to Maxwell at the
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: very least, and somebody who had a chance to speak up,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: somebody who had a chance to perhaps put an end
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: to this, but didn't do it. And according to her,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: she'll say that it was Graydon Carter who was the
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: one who quashed it. But like I've said from the beginning,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: if you're courageous and you're a journalist and you have
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: a story and your editor or the outlet you work
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: for is attempting to quash that story or stop you
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: from telling it, that should signal to you that you
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: have something and you should go elsewhere with it. Even
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: if you get fired, what, you think nobody's going to
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: pick you up with a story like that? Ward also
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: promises to reveal what happened in 2002, when while working
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: as a contributing editor at Vanity Fair, she interviewed two
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: sisters who said they had been sexually abused by Epstein
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: and Maxwell, but was unable to publish their stories. I'm
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: going to tell you why those claims never made it
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: into print, she says. One big reason. Jeffrey Epstein. Convenient.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: It's a convenient excuse and a convenient person to blame.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: He's dead, right? Real easy to blame Jeffrey Epstein. But
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: in reality... Vicki Ward could have went to another outlet,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: could have forced the issue. She didn't do any of that. Now,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: don't get me wrong. It's not just her fault. Graydon
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Carter shoulders his share of the blame as well. In
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: her podcast, Ward claims that she was determined to expose
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Epstein as a sexual abuser and had the necessary evidence,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: but that Epstein convinced Vanity Fair's editor, Graydon Carter himself,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: not to publish the sisters' accounts. Vanity Fair, like the
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: New Yorker, is owned by Condé Nast. So, that's interesting.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: The New Yorker is owned by the same company as
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Vanity Fair, and they're hitting them pretty hard with this
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: piece here. This isn't a puff piece for sure. This
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: is a piece that is really exploring Vicki Ward's role
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: here and not releasing the information that the Farmer Sisters
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: gave her, Maria and Annie both. First Ward says, Epstein
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: threatened her, telling her, I have reports here about you,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: your husband. I have everything under the sun that was
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: sent to me by people who want to be helpful.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Despite this and other menacing remarks, Ward recounts, I still
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: thought that I was going to win. I really thought
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: that I could expose Jeffrey Epstein. Oh, I'm sure. Your
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: revisionist history, right? Then why didn't you do it? It's
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: all fine and well now to say that from the
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: comfort of your millions and millions of dollars and your,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: you know, high-rise apartment in New York City. But where
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: were you when this was all happening and you had
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: the goods? Too scared of Jeffrey Epstein? Too scared of
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: perhaps taking a hit as far as your professional career goes?
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: And instead, you sit on that story. And how many
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: other girls were abused in the wake of that? But
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: according to Ward, Epstein and Carter were talking to each other,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: sort of behind the scenes. Epstein and Carter spoke on
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: the phone and, shortly after Ward filed a draft, they
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: met at Vanity Fair's office. Eventually, Ward says, an editor
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: informed her that Carter had decided not to include the
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: sisters' allegations in the story. I must have gone into
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: the office because I do remember being there and just crying,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: she says. They had been so brave and we just
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: let them down. I mean, wow, really? So instead of
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: just doing the right thing, you're going to sit here
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: and give us some hindsight and say how you must
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: have gone into the office because you do remember being
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: there and just crying. I mean, come on, give me
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: a break. Setting it up so what people feel sorry
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: for you. The reality is you had the goods. The
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: reality is you didn't have the courage to go above
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: your boss's head. That's what it comes down to. Remember,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: When you're at one of these jobs, it's not the be-all, end-all.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: You're not at some gulag in the Soviet Union. You
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: can walk. And I know that it's not a comfortable feeling,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: leaving a job. But at some point, you have to
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: stand up for what's right. And, I mean, there's just
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: no way that I would ever be comfortable letting an
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: editor kill a story like this. I would go crazy.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: I'd take it elsewhere. 100%, and even if I didn't
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: take it elsewhere, I'd give it to one of my
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: colleagues to run. Any way to get that information out there,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: I would never, I don't know how you could sit
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: on something like this. Last December, after a jury found
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Maxwell guilty on 5 of 6 counts, I sent a
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: message to Ward, asking if I could interview her. I
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: wanted to find out what she had made of the trial,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: and to learn more about Vanity Fair's decision not to
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: run the allegations against Epstein and Maxwell. I also wanted
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: to talk about a 2011 follow-up that Ward had written
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: for Vanity Fair, in which he wrote playfully about Epstein,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: describing him as, not without humor, and praised Maxwell, calling
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: her passionate and capable of vulnerability. How could a journalist
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: committed to exposing Epstein's abuses have written so casually about
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: the pair? Well, that's because she is just trying to profit,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: in my opinion. Not that she cares about these survivors,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: if she did. She would have helped out Maria and
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Annie when they first came to her and they first,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: you know, exposed that part of their life to her.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: That's a serious show of trust. And as a journalist,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: you should do the right thing there. Ward and I
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: spoke on the phone and I asked her to forward
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: emails that could verify some of her claims about Vanity Fair.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Many of the things that she told me And had
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: told her podcast listeners. Turned out to be untrue. Oh
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: no kidding. Who's told you guys that from the beginning.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Her story never added up. And honestly, when you just
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: put the pieces together in this story and you look
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: at what people have said, the statements they've made, and
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: you paste it all together in one long chain, a
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: lot of times it just doesn't add up. And the
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: same thing occurred here with Vicki Ward. None of it
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: added up. And if you listen to Maria Farmer and Annie,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: they're very adamant about what occurred here. So I have
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: always had a very questionable opinion of Vicki Ward and
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: her work. I don't believe her to be some hard-charging
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: journalist that was trying to take Epstein down. In fact,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: I think that she was pumping the tires for Epstein
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: and Maxwell. That's my personal opinion. All publications, including this one,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: at times look back on stories and regret not pursuing
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: them further. But Ward's claim that Vanity Fair prevented her
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: from exposing Epstein's? Epstein misrepresents a more complicated reality. Carter,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: who now says he distrusted Ward as a reporter, has
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: offered conflicting explanations for his magazine's decision not to run
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: the sisters' allegations. Now, again, look, I'm not just going
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: to sit here and blame Vicki Ward, right? Graydon Carter,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: the editor, has to shoulder his blame, too. This is, again,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: like I always say, a big shit sandwich. And all
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: of these people are taking a bite. There is no
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: way that this story should have been sat on. Have
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: a little bit of courage. Have some integrity. I mean,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: how many times do these outlets run stories from anonymous sources?
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: then that gives them the leeway and the cover to
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: say all kinds of ridiculous things and paint the situation
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: however they want it but all of a sudden we
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: get solid concrete evidence from two people who were assaulted
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: by Epstein and Maxwell and you stuff that how can
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: anyone believe anything That somebody like that has to say.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: For her part. Ward has repeatedly misrepresented. Her reporting on Epstein.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Changing her story from year to year. And at times
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: from day to day. And was a far less heroic actor.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Than she would have her audiences believe. I am horrified.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: One of the sisters Maria Farmer said last year. About
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Ward's podcast. She won't stop torturing us. And it's hurting
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: us so badly. Look. I can't disagree with what the
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: author has to say here. She has misrepresented her reporting
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: from the beginning. And again, folks, look, I say it
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: all the time and I'll continue to say it. I
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: don't trust anybody who's part of this circle. Why would
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: I trust Vicki Ward? What has she done or... reported
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: on or proven to us that that would make us
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: trust her just because she was around Epstein and Maxwell,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: just because she's another it girl like Victoria Hervey. Sorry,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: I don't believe these people. And Vicki Ward's definitely up
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: there as somebody that I just don't find to be
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: a reliable narrator, if you will. Ward's reporting on Epstein
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: and Maxwell began in 2002, when Carter asked her to
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: profile Epstein, who was known for hosting friends such as
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Bill Clinton, Prince Andrew, and Kevin Spacey. Epstein claimed to
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: manage the investments of billionaires, but his only known client
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: was the limited brand CEO Leslie Wexner. Well, we know
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: that he also had Leon Black on the hook for
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: $ 158 million. So, I would guess Leon Black would be
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: considered a client as well, yeah? Ward, a British-born journalist,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: had moved to New York in 1997, where she worked
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: at the New York Post and Talk magazine, before moving
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: on to Vanity Fair. Ward told me that she was
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: well-positioned to report on Epstein because her social circle overlapped
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: with Maxwell's. And there's the rub, right? You're already in
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: the circle with these people, so I expect you to
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: report on them fairly, or would one suspect? You to
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: try and protect them, to try and harbor them, to
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: try and make sure that their reputations go untainted. And
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: if she didn't prove that she was doing that with
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: quashing this story, then it would be a leap too
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: far to make. Right. But with the evidence we have here,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: her not running this story. how kindly she talked about
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Epstein and Maxwell, even all the way in 2011. And
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: it adds up to Vicki Ward not really being very
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: truthful with her audience. I was very close to one
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: of her Oxford classmates, who was not a particularly powerful
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: or staggeringly rich person, but is a very decent person,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: she told me. So that possibly warmed me to her.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: You judge people by their friends. You do? No, I don't.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: I judge people by the way they conduct themselves. You
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: judge people by their friends? Really? So if that's the case,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: then you're just as bad as Maxwell and Epstein. They
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: were your friends, right? I judge people by the way
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: they conduct themselves. And by the way that they treat
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: me and other people. You might have a bunch of
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: asshole friends, but you might be a good person, right?
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: So I don't even know what that means. You judge
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: people by their friends. Ward's impression of Epstein was different.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: During her reporting, she says on the podcast, Epstein told
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: her that he could get her husband, the venture capitalist
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Matthew Dole, fired because he knew her husband's boss. Also,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: her husband's step-uncle, the media mogul Conrad Black. Ah, and
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: here we go, right back to Conrad Black, huh? Wasn't
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: it Conrad Black who just came out defending these people?
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: And you see the circular nature of all of this, right?
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: All of this stuff goes back to the same core
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: little group of folk. Conrad Black, Vicki Ward, Prince Andrew,
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Victoria Hervey. You know, this whole circle of these two-bit, outdated,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: supposed nobility. Oh, the aristocracy. Oh, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Get me my pipe and my smoking jacket, Bennett. Ward
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: was pregnant at the time, and she says that Epstein
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: also made inappropriate remarks about her pregnancy. He repeatedly asked
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: when she was giving birth, and at one point informed
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: her that, when you give birth, as your vaginal canal opens,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: you have this chemical released into your system with oxytocin.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: It also causes you to fall in love with the
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: thing you see coming out of it. Uh, what? Again,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: who knows if he really even said all of that.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: I'm very skeptical of Vicki Ward at this point. Very skeptical.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Ward soon alerted to something even darker about Epstein. A
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: friend told her that an artist named Maria Farmer had
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: had a bad experience with Epstein and urged Ward to
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: reach out to the young woman. Farmer, who had met
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Epstein and Maxwell while she was a 25-year-old graduate student
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: at the New York Academy of Art, had been hired
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: by Epstein as an art advisor. Farmer told Ward that
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: in 1996... She stayed at an Ohio mansion with Epstein
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: and Maxwell... Where Epstein had sexually assaulted her... While Maxwell
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: held her hand... Epstein and Maxwell had also taken an
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: interest in her younger sister Annie... Now we all know
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: the story about Annie and Maria at this point... And
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: Maria told Vicki Ward this whole entire story... Annie told
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: her story... And Vicki Ward... Vanity Fair... Graydon Carter... decided
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: it wasn't important enough to run. Instead, let's run a
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: puff piece on Epstein, about the mysterious and cool Jeffrey Epstein. Meanwhile,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: the dude was an absolute clown, a dork. Cool mom jeans, bro.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Nice slippers. Cool. I mean, really? Epstein and Maxwell had
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: also taken an interest in her younger sister, Annie. Ward
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: talked to Annie, too, who told her that the same year,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: when she was 16, she had stayed with Epstein and
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Maxwell at Epstein's New Mexico ranch. Maxwell had told Annie
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: to remove her clothes and massaged her breasts. Maxwell also
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: showed her how to give Epstein a foot massage, which
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: she did. Annie also said that Epstein had entered the
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: bedroom where she was staying and pressed his body against hers. So...
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: We won't go too deep into that. We covered all
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: of this during the trial. But it shows you. Imagine
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: if you're Vicky Ward. And these girls are telling you
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: this story. And you just sit on it. How do
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: you look at yourself in the mirror? How do you
• 17:13
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• 17:50
  Speaker 1: In 2002, Annie and Maria spoke to Ward on the record,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: as did their mother, who said that her daughter had
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: told her about distressing encounters with Maxwell and Epstein. According
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: to Ward, she also spoke to two other sources, David
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Schaefer and Eric Fischel, who knew Maria through the New
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: York Academy of Art and had some knowledge of what
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: happened in Ohio. Neither Fischel nor Schaefer responded to my
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: request for comment, but in 2019, Fischel told the Times
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: that That Maria had called him from Epstein's house. And
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: described a disturbing physical encounter with Epstein. I just kept
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: telling Maria. You've got to get out of there. Officials said.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: And again Maria has recounted this. Time and time again.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Her story. What she went through. And she's provided the receipts. Right.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Different people to back up her story. Other art students corroborating.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: The situation in New Mexico. You know the whole entire thing.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: But Vicky Ward. Vicky Ward. And Graydon Carter, they couldn't
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: be bothered to run the story. The article appeared in
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Vanity Fair in March 2003 issue did not include the
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: farmer's allegations, noting only that Epstein tended to surround himself
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: with young women. Oh, you know, talk about sanitization, sanitizing, right?
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Let's just sanitize the whole thing. Oh, he's surrounded by
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: young girls because he's such a hip guy. He's such
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: a good looking dude. I mean, it's unbelievable. When you
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: look back at this in hindsight, and you really see
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: what Jeffrey Epstein was, and you see the way that
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: they're trying to, you know, protect his image and build
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: him up like he's some kind of playboy, some kind
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: of great financier on Wall Street. It's just gross. Ward
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: claims that this was a result of Epstein's influence on Carter.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: After Epstein visited Vanity Fair's office, she claims Carter told
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: her that Epstein was sensitive about the young women. Epstein
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: denied the farmers' allegations and, according to Ward, Carter said,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: I believe him. So again, it's he said, she said.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: I think there's plenty of blame to go around between
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Carter and Vicki Ward, both. Carter tells a different story.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: I edited the first draft of Ms. Ward's story, he
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: said in an email. There was no mention of young
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: women in it. When she tried to add these facts
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: late in the process, we were about to go on press.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Her editor, our chief of research, and our legal editor
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: all felt she did not have credible evidence that would
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: stand up in court. I mean, again, have you seen
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: the stuff that these publications run? Anonymous source this, anonymous
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: source that, and it's taken as, you know, fact. Meanwhile,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: you have two credible witnesses, two women coming forward saying
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: they were abused by this guy and it wasn't credible
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: enough to run. So remember that the next time you
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: see anonymous sauce in a Vanity Fair article. After Carter
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: sent this statement, Ward shared emails between her and Vanity
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Fair staffers in a pattern that became familiar later. The
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: emails indicated that the dates and details Ward had previously
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: provided were incorrect. She went on to offer four different
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: accounts of when the farmers were removed from the piece,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: eventually admitting that she didn't remember what had happened and
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: then returning to her initial claim. See, and this is
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: what I'm talking about with these people. It's such a
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: disgusting way to go about things. And it's so dishonest.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: And it's just another reason why people don't believe the
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: legacy media anymore. And when I say people, I don't
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: mean people on one side or the other. I'm talking
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: about people in general. These folks that are supposed to
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: be journalists, they have certainly lost their way. But the
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: emails also showed that Ward presented the magazine with her
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: allegations by early December, weeks before the article closed. In mid-December,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: Ward was discussing the Farmers with fact-checkers, and a photo
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: editor asked for assistance obtaining Maria Farmer's photos. So again, look,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: I don't want it to seem like I'm just blaming
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Vicki Ward. I am not. She shoulders her share of
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: the blame, Graydon Carter, Vanity Fair, the whole lot of them.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: but for me, as the author of the story, you
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: gotta go somewhere else if they're not biting, and I
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: don't care if it's your job, your career, whatever it is.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: You have an obligation, almost, as a journalist. When I
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: share this timeline with Carter, he replied in an email, well,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: this is my mistake then. Remember, this was almost 20
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: years ago. He then suggested he had not been involved
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: in decision-making about the article. What I do know is
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: that I had complete trust in my editors, our legal editor,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: our head of research, and our researchers. And I gave
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: them a great deal of latitude in what could be
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: included in a story and what could not. In 99%
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: of these cases, they made the decisions among themselves. But
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: it just so happens that this is that one percentile, huh? Oh,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: I gave them great latitude. You know what that is, right?
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: Him giving himself a buffer from the decision-making process. Oh, well,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: you know, I let my editors do it. It's really
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: not my fault. Sorry, Graydon Carter. You're the boss. You're
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: the editor. The buck stops with you. Carter and I
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: also spoke on the phone, and he told me that
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: the decision not to run the farmer's allegations was likely
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: influenced by Ward's professional reputation. My staff, to a person,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: did not trust her. I spoke to numerous people who
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: had played some role in the production of Ward's article, which,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: for such a story, always includes fact-checkers, editors, and lawyers.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: None felt able to go on the record to discuss
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: the magazine's handling of the piece, but several said that
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Ward had not gathered evidence that would stand up in court,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: and others echoed Carter's remarks about Ward's journalism. Yikes. That's
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: certainly a black mark on old Vicki Ward here, huh?
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: The good thing is for her, she's loaded anyway. And
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: even if she doesn't have a job as a journalist
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: or peddling you podcasts or whatever, she's not going to
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: go without a meal. Ain't like you or I, if
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: we lose our jobs, forget it, right? Most of us
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: are a month or two away from absolute ruination. Vicky
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: had zero credibility with the fact-checking and legal departments. One
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: person who worked at Vanity Fair at the time told me,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: they had too many bad experiences. Another then-staffer said that
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Ward had provided inaccurate quotations and had had disputes with
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: sources about when they were speaking on the record. A
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: third person, who worked extensively with both Ward and Carter,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: told me that he thought Vanity Fair could have done
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: more to pursue the farmers' allegations, but also that Ward
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: seemed not to understand basic journalistic rules. In response to
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: these statements about our work, Ward said, I worked for
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Vanity Fair for a decade after this. That speaks for itself. Oh,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: does it? Does it really? How many bad employees keep
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: their jobs? I mean, let's be very honest here. A
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: lot of bad employees keep their jobs. That doesn't mean
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: you're doing a good job. Just means either A, you
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: know somebody in the company, B, they don't want to
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: fire you, or C, it's just an inept operation overall.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Ward was not the only person who said that Epstein
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: exerted pressure on Carter. John Connolly, a former Vanity Fair
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: contributing editor who died in January, told NPR in 2019 that,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: in 2003, Epstein was torturing Carter, telling him not to
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: report on the young women. After Ward's piece was published,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Connolly added, Carter told him that he had found a
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: bullet outside his house in Manhattan and viewed it as
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: a threat from Epstein. Very circumstantial. Is that something that
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: is out of the realm of possibility for Epstein? Nope.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: We know that he's threatened people before, but I can't
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: verify that, and I don't know if anyone can, to
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: be honest with you. Maybe that's Graydon Carter trying to
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: make the situation look more dire for himself. In 2006,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Connelly was pursuing his own story about Epstein for Vanity
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: Fair when a cat's head appeared on the stoop of
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Carter's country home. Again, I'm not too sure. I wasn't there.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: How many other stories has Carter run, or does Carter
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: have other enemies? Again, we don't know, but certainly a
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: pretty odd coincidence. According to Connelly, Carter expressed concern about
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: his own children's safety, and Connelly decided to drop the story. Wow, really?
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, again, This is what journalism is. Oh, I'm
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: scared for my safety. I'm going to drop the story.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: It's pretty pathetic. And it just, again, goes to show
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: why people just really don't trust the end. I mean,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: the the legacy media at this point. Carter disputed Connolly's account,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: telling New York that he recalls the bullet appearing the
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: year after Ward's story was published, that he and his
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: wife attributed the bullet and the cat to aggrieved George W.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Bush supporters. Exactly. That's what I would think it would be.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: I highly doubt Jeffrey Epstein would do that. I mean,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: just doesn't seem like his M.O., right? It seems too brutish.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: He's more of a behind the scenes, you know, white
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: glove it from the curtain type of guy. and that
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: to suggest that either of these incidents affected my editorial
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: judgment is flatly wrong. Another former Vanity Fair staffer told me,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: Graydon was definitely not intimidated. When I asked whether Carter
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: would have any reason to protect Epstein, the former staffer responded,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Graydon had a small circle of people he was very
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: loyal to, so maybe he would protect one of them,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: but absolutely not with Epstein. So again, I don't know
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Graydon Carter. I don't know Vicki Ward. All I can
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: go on is what they did here. And what they
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: did here was straight trash. And it's a coward's way out, really.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: I recently spoke and corresponded with Annie Farmer about her
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: and Maria's experiences with Warden Vanity Fair. Annie passed along
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: a statement from Maria in which Maria said that when
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: she saw the published article, I immediately felt I was
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: no longer safe. Epstein and Maxwell now knew that Maria
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: was willing to speak to reporters, Annie wrote. But she
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: didn't have the safety of being on the record about them.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: In 2019, Maria told the Times that shortly after the
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: story was published, Maxwell threatened her life. She said, I
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: know you go to the West Side Highway all the time.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: While you're out there, just be really, really careful. There
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: are a lot of ways to die there. Maxwell's lawyers
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: did not respond to requests for comment. And Maria has
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: said the same thing over and over and over again.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: They told Graydon Carter this. They told Vicki Ward this.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: During the next several years, the facts about Epstein's abuse
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: of minors began to emerge. By 2006, Florida police had
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: found extensive evidence that Epstein was soliciting sex from teenage
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: girls at his mansion in Palm Beach. Facing state and
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: potentially federal charges, Epstein secured a plea deal that allowed
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: him to serve a brief sentence in a county jail.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: By 2011, He had been released and returned to his
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: previous life with Prince Andrew and other celebrities spending time
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: at his Manhattan residence. Must be nice, huh? Get out
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: of jail party. You know, all your friends show up. up,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Prince Andrew, the rest of the so-called elite. Boy, isn't
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: that a nice party. How can so much scum fit
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: in one room or one house, even if it's that
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: gigantic townhouse? It was then that Ward decided to write
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: about Epstein and Maxwell again for Vanity Fair's website. On
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: her podcast, she says that she saw it as an
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: opportunity to actually finally get the farmers' allegations into the
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: narrative about Jeffrey and Ghislaine. But the piece, which was
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: published in March of 2011, did none of that, instead
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: flattering Epstein and Maxwell and making light of the farmers' allegations.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: So she makes light of the allegations, right? And then
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: she goes on later on to profit off of all
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: of this with this big podcast and this audible deal
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: and all of that. I don't know how anybody, honestly,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: could take her seriously. And I don't know why anybody
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: would even bother listening to her work at this point.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Lucky Land Casino asking people what's the weirder 2003 piece.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: She had gotten to know Jeffrey and Ghislaine far better after.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: I kept running into them separately at parties. She did
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: not seem to feel threatened by Epstein. So all of
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: the hoorah about, oh, I was scared of Epstein, this, that,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: the other thing, sure didn't seem scared of him after that, huh?
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Sure didn't seem scared of him when you guys were
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: all hanging out at parties with the rest of the
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: so-called elite. But now let's go ahead and profit from
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: all of this. Let's act like I cared. Let's act
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: like I was trying to expose them. She did not
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: seem to feel threatened by Epstein. Instead, she recalled joking
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: with him about the young women who flanked him at events.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Of Maxwell, she wrote, Full disclosure, I like her. Most
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: people in New York do. She is always the most interesting,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: the most vivacious, the most unusual person in any room.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: I've spent hours talking to her about the third world
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: at a bar until 2 a.m. She is as passionate
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: as she is knowledgeable. Yeah, no wonder you wrote a
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: puff piece. and didn't add the allegations against her and Epstein.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: You guys are homies, always have been homies. Talking about
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: the third world, first of all, it's called the developing world,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: not the third world. What century are you in? But
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: we shouldn't expect anything else from the aristocracy. We're all
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: still just, you know, feudal servants to them anyway. While
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: reporting her 2003 piece, Ward wrote that she had heard
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: stories about the girls... But not knowing quite whom to believe,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: I concentrated on the intriguing financial mystery instead. She also wrote, Sure,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey had his sexual peccadillos, but then Ghislaine Maxwell's father,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: the late press baron Robert Maxwell, was not without his oddities. Oh,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: nice case of whataboutism. That's what you see all the
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: time too, right? If you bring up somebody in politics
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: or anything, somebody on the other side inevitably is going
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: to point to someone else and say, yeah, but what
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: about him? Well, we'll get to him later. We're talking
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: about this scumbag now. Can we talk about this scumbag
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: first and then get to the other scumbag without all
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: of the whataboutism? Don't worry. There's plenty of barbs for
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: them all. Maria Farmer's reaction towards Vanity Fair Post was
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: one of extreme distress. In a statement passed along by
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: her sister, she said, When I first saw it, I
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: cried for hours and felt completely betrayed by someone I
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: had trusted. A spokesperson for Audible said the podcast reflects
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Ward's rigorous journalistic investigation, as well as her personal recollections
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: of her personal experiences. Again, way better sources out there, folks.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Bradley Edwards' book, Relentless Pursuit. Melissa Cronin. Has a good book, Epstein,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Dead Men Tell No Tales. Several good books out there.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Certainly don't need to waste your time with whatever Vicki
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Ward's up to. At least in my opinion, anyway. Given
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: what Maria and Annie Farmer had told me in 2002,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: of course I wouldn't have described Jeffrey's sexual habits like that.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: She also claimed that Vanity Fair did not give her
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to review this heavy edit before posting it.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: The first time she saw the final piece, she said,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: was after it had been published. I don't believe that either.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, maybe it's true, but personally, I don't believe that.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: I asked Ward if she had proof of her claims,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: and she forwarded me several emails between her and Vanity
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Fair's editors. And also, what she said was her first draft.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: They directly contradicted what she had told me. Does that
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: shock anybody here? I mean, all it took was one
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: reporter sending her some emails and trying to verify her nonsense,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: and here we are. The draft was extremely similar to
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: the piece that Vanity Fair ran. It specifically said that
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: she was unsure of whom to believe. The wording of
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: the sentence about sexual peccadilloes was unchanged, and, far from
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: expressing distress that the piece was posted without her seeing edits,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Ward received a revision from her editor and then, an
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: hour later, complained that it had not yet appeared online, adding,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: It's a blog. Sigh. Aw, poor Vicky. She didn't have
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: her piece up too quickly. Ward made one claim about
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: the 2011 piece that was even more serious. She told
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: me that she had included Farmer Sister's precise allegations, but
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: they had been excised by someone at Vanity Fair. And indeed,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: her draft did include several sentences about the farmer's allegations,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: without using their names, which also appeared in the version
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: she received from her editor, but not in the published piece.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Those original sentences not only failed to show the sympathy
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: for the farmers that Ward says she felt, they also
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: depict Maria and Annie's allegations as less significant than they were. Look,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: the allegations were obviously spot on, and Annie's allegations were
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: enough to get Ghislaine Maxwell convicted. So when Ward or
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Carter says there wasn't enough there to run a story,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: I am very, very skeptical of that. Ward left out
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Annie's allegations that Maxwell had massaged her and that Epstein
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: had entered her bed. The younger girl, Ward wrote, claimed
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: only that she had massaged his feet. Weird, but not criminal.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: The other, she wrote, claimed that her breasts had been fondled.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Ward does not specify by whom, but in both cases,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Epstein and Maxwell denied the claims. And the older girl
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: had not been a minor at the time. Ward concluded...
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: We left the strange sex out and concentrated on the
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: intriguing financial mystery instead. Let me ask you a question.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: When's the last time the legacy media left the strange
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: sex part out of the story? They look for the
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: most salacious part of every story and dive in. So
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden they want to leave that part
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: out here, huh? I called Ward after receiving these emails
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: and asked her why she hadn't included Annie Farmer's claims
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: about Maxwell in her draft. I wish I could remember,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: she told me. She also again denied writing that she
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: wasn't sure she could believe the Farmer Sisters. So, I
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: read her the passage which she had sent me, out loud.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: I was deliberately covering for Graydon, she told me. Carter
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: denies that he asked Ward to cover for him. 2011
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: was a year I made a lot of bad decisions.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: I was not mentally well. She attributed this to getting
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: a divorce. I mean, so she's going to say she
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: wasn't mentally well? That's the reason why this all happened?
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: Give me a break. Just another excuse. Another excuse from
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: an epic excuse maker. Never my fault. Everybody else's fault. Deflect, deflect, deflect.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Never take any kind of self-responsibility. I was curious why
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: Ward had decided to write the 2011 piece, given her
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: account of her prior experiences with both Epstein and Vanity Fair.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: She didn't say, as she had in the past, that
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: it was to air the farmer's allegations. Instead, She told me,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: I think the reason I did it was that the
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: media industry was imploding. I was really worried about money
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: and having a tricky time and life at Vanity Fair
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: always depended on Graydon's moods. Everyone was desperate for content
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: and wanted blogs, she added. This may seem bizarre, but
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: by being able to write about it so flippantly, I
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: think it made me feel good, actually. What? It does
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: sound bizarre. Everything about you sounds bizarre. You think you're
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: worried about your job? How about the people that are
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: making pennies on the dollar who don't know if they'll
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: have food in the refrigerator next week? And you're worried
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: about your job. I also asked Carter about the 2011 story.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: I never saw this piece, he said in an email.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: It was written for the Vanity Fair website, which was
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: then relatively primitive and which I looked at only occasionally.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: In those days, I was still primarily focused on the
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: print magazine. He may not have read the piece, but
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Ward forwarded me an email from an editor who said
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: that he had heard about it from Carter and another
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: from a staffer who said that the editor was running
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: it by Graydon for his approval. In his email to me,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Carter criticized Ward for writing glowingly of Epstein and Maxwell.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: I asked Carter if he regretted running the piece. Yes,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: of course, he replied. It's always, you know, in hindsight
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: that they regret it, right? None of these people regretted
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: it enough to stop hanging out with Epstein or to
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: expose him. Now, of course, it's a whole different story.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: In 2015, the Epstein saga entered a new phase. A
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: woman named Virginia Roberts filed a federal lawsuit against Epstein,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: alleging that she had been sexually abused and trafficked by him,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: with Maxwell's assistance. It was at this point that Ward,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: who had left Vanity Fair, began telling a new story
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: about her reporting on Epstein. In a piece published by
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: the Daily Beast, she claimed for the first time that
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Carter had suppressed the farmer's allegations. It came down to
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: my source's word against Epstein, she wrote. And at the time,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Graydon believed Epstein. It's funny how all of a sudden
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: when the mood changes and people are no longer friendly
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: to Epstein, all of a sudden Vicki Ward has a
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: new story. It's not writing glowingly anymore. Now it's Graydon
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: Carter's fault. Four years later, Epstein was arrested on federal
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: charges of trafficking minors. Ward did a round of press
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: about the case. repeatedly stating her allegations of being silenced
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: by Vanity Fair. In August 2019, Epstein found dead in
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: a New York City jail by an apparent suicide. Ward,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: who had joined CNN as a senior reporter, spoke about
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Epstein and her experience at Vanity Fair on the network.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Ward's podcast is the most complete version of this narrative.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: And her decision to capitalize on the farmer's testimony is unmistakable.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: And this is the big problem that Maria, and I'm
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: sure Annie, have with the whole situation. Now, if Vicki
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Ward would have helped them, been someone who cared, then
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: I'm sure it would have been a different story about
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: her having this podcast and revisiting what occurred. But she
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: didn't help them. In fact, she made it more difficult
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: on Maria and Annie to get justice. Over ominous music,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: she tells Maria's story of being sexually assaulted by Epstein
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: and Maxwell. Afterward, she explains Maria could not escape the
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Ohio property until her father was able to pick her up.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: She had to stay trapped with them in that same house,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Ward says. I remember her saying that they told her
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: there were sharpshooters outside. And Maria has been very consistent
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: with that part of her story for sure. She was
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: stuck on that property, the Wexner's property in Ohio. She
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: couldn't leave. The head of security, a guy named Randy Bowie, was,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: you know, keeping her against her will. It's a very,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: very sad tale. And it's heart-wrenching to think that people
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: went through this. Someone like Maria went through this. And
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Vicky Ward protects Epstein? Listening to this again after my
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: email exchange with Ward, I turned to her first draft
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: of the 2011 story, which recounts the same events. Maria,
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: Ward wrote, then claimed that her breasts had been fondled
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: and she'd leaped off the bed and run out of
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: the house. This was worse than the flippancy Ward had
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: admitted to. It was a betrayal of two women who
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: had risked so much to tell their stories. Maria has
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: said for years after her experience with Ward, she did
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: not share the details of her assault again. And she didn't.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Maria was very guarded about all of this. She had
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: to live in exile, basically, hiding. Today we know the
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: extraordinary extent of Epstein's sexual predations. More than 150 women
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: have accused him of sexual abuse, with many stating that
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: they were underage at the time. This is in large
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: part the work of the women themselves, who filed lawsuits
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: and went public with their stories, despite fears of reprisal.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: And that's really what it comes down to. I've said
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: it from the beginning. These women, the survivors who stole
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: the narrative back, they're the real heroes. Nobody else, not
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Julie K. Brown. Nobody else. It was also accomplished by journalists,
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: most notably Julie K. Brown of the Miami Herald, who
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: persisted in investigating Epstein long after he was allowed to
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: settle the initial case against him. And there's no doubt
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: that Julie K. Brown played a role here in bringing
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: light back to this. But the real heroes, let's never
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: lose sight sight of the plot here, alright? The real
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: heroes are the survivors. Brown, who began her reporting in 2016,
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: combed heavily redacted police reports to identify 80 alleged Epstein
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: survivors and persuaded many of them to speak with her
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: on the record. She also secured the cooperation of the
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: Palm Beach police chief and the lead investigator on the case,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: which allowed her to piece together a critical part of
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: the story. The deal Epstein struck with federal prosecutors, which
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: shielded him from serious consequences. Her work didn't just expose Epstein,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: but also the culture that allowed him to survive. When
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: federal prosecutors finally did charge Epstein with sex trafficking in 2019,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Berman, then the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: of New York, said we were assisted by some excellent
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: investigative journalism. Then there's no doubt. That Julie K. Brown
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: story swung the spotlight right back onto the case. And
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: when you look at Julie K. Brown's reporting and match
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: it up with Vicki Ward's, there's no doubt that Julie K.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Brown did a better job, right? But we know that
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: she's facing her own issues now, being sued by a
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: couple of the survivors. So we'll see where that goes.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: But the whole thing with Vicki Ward has always sat
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: with me wrong. And then for her to turn around
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: and profit the way she has, man, that gotta really,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: really bother these survivors. All right, folks, that's going to
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: do it for today after that nice, crazy long article
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: we just popped off there. And what do you folks
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: think about that? You think Vicki Ward is trustworthy? You
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: think she's somebody that's reliable? Is her content something you're
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: going to dive into? Shoot me some emails and let
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: me know. We're going to wrap it up there. And obviously,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: we'll be back later on with the evening update. And
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: until then, like usual, some context episodes are on the way.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: at BobbyCapucci at ProtonMail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at ProtonMail.com. You can
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: also find me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: link that we discussed can be found in the description box.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, I'll be back later on. I hope...